Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 385: Daniele Bolelli

Episode Date: May 30, 2020

Daniele Bolelli, historian, martial artist, and all-around beautiful human being re-joins the DTFH! Listen to Daniele's podcast, History on Fire, and check out his book, Create Your Own Religion. You can also learn more about Daniele on his site. This episode is brought to you by: Purple - Visit Purple.com/Duncan and use promo code DUNCAN for $150 Off any mattress order of $1500 or more!

Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Greetings, my dear friends. It is I, D. Trucelle, and you are listening to the Ducatrustle Family Hour podcast, and I am going to go on a kind of angry fucking political rant. So get ready if you don't want it, if you feel like you've been

you're sick of having the vulture vomit of the mainstream media and the fucking rancid news that we're all being just putrefying in right now. Just skip ahead a little bit. I get it. I understand you don't want to hear another fucking comic that's decided to become political. I'm so sorry to be part of it, but this is the revelation that I've had, which is that if I don't say anything, if I ignore it, then I'm going,

then no matter what that means that I'm siding with the same forces that are allowing people like that rancid, murderous piece of shit horror cop who executed George Floyd on the street to continue to exist. So also that being said, I want to recognize, I want to acknowledge that I have not experienced the level of oppression that people of color and minorities have experienced in their lives. But holy shit, I'm angry. I'm angry. This pissed me off.

I don't want to be angry. I have a problem with anger. I don't like the way it feels, but I'm disturbed by this. I'm angry. And if I'm fucking angry, can you imagine how angry people in Minneapolis, people of color and minorities who have had to deal with this in their minds for their whole lives must feel having witnessed a three day span of time in between a street execution and the executioner being arrested? I don't think it's possible to even imagine that.

So anyway, I don't, I think there's a lot of, if you want to hear some brilliant articulate young people talking about why they're incinerating buildings in Minneapolis right now, go to Unicorn Riot. The live streams are up there. They're amazing. And you'll find some comfort in the fact that these people, as much as the president wants you to think they're thugs, they're not thugs. They're not thugs.

They're young people who are risking their lives to send a message, which is you can't do that anymore. And I don't, I don't know if there's really anything. I don't know if arresting that cop is going to do the trick. I don't know that just an arrest like that is going to make up for, for it. I mean, I don't think anything can. That's a scary thing. I mean, how do you watch a CNN reporter get arrested on the street

for standing in the wrong place? And then while you're watching this happen, know that the cop that publicly executed a man is sitting in his fucking house surrounded by police protecting him. What message does that send? It doesn't matter if after burning half a Minneapolis down, the state arrests this person. There's no perp walk, by the way, as far as I'm aware, no video of it. You don't even get that.

They're not even going to give that. They're not even going to give us that at least show him in handcuffs being pushed into a fucking car like they did with Julian Assange. Not even that. I don't know, man. I just, this is my, this is the main thing that we're going to dive into this podcast with Danielli Bollelei. I just want all of the activists in Minneapolis and wherever you happen to

be to know that I'm watching you. You have definitely impacted me. You have definitely influenced me. What you're doing is not, and I think you know this, some absurd, uh, waving of your waving and, uh, waving into the air in the face of the void. I want you to know that is not what you're doing. The way you're doing, uh, and what unicorn ride is doing and what all the people who are working really hard to get the voices of the people who are

the activists out into the world is really changing people. And is it waking people back up and reminding people, I forgot some stuff. I'm in a very comfortable position and it's easy to get a kind of spiritual atrophy. You know, I just want you to know that I support you for whatever, whatever that's worth because I, and honestly, it ain't worth much, but I support you. I'm watching my family is watching and, uh, thank you for risking your life so that some kind of justice in the world can happen.

Okay, that's it. That's my fucking soapbox, my high road. I'm so sorry, everybody. Look, I don't, I'm not going to do, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that because it's just, uh, you know, it's somewhat embarrassing and it feels, I don't know, indulgent or something like that, but fuck, you should do it too. I don't care if it's embarrassing and indulgent.

Actually, I'm sick of those voices in my head that tell me not to do that. It feels like that is another form that they, like the people who want to put that, who, who feel okay, putting a knee on someone's neck and suffocating them would love for you to not talk about it. Would love for you to not voice horror, witnessing a thing like that. And more than anything, they would love for you to be more horrified than people carrying lamps out of a target than by the public execution of a man on the street who was calling out for his mom.

Just keep that in mind. If you're one of those people out there who's like getting that feeling that you want to tweet about how they're dishonoring someone who was publicly executed by burning down a target. Just know that, that just think for a second about what you're doing. Because if you, if you haven't said anything before that about the fact that someone's publicly executed, then don't raise your voice and protection of a target.

Okay. I'm done. I'm done. Hare Krishna. I just had to get it out. I warned you about the rant. I did it. I'm done.

Thank you. Unicorn Riot. I hope you're safe out there. Come on the podcast. Got a great, great, great episode for you today. Historian, martial artist, and all around beautiful human. Danielle Bolleli is here with us today. We're going to jump right into it.

But first, some quick business. Okay. Loves head over to patreon.com, slash DTFH and pres, prescribe yourself. I'm prescribing it to you. We've been having these incredible weekly gatherings that are becoming my favorite part of the week, not just that, but depending on what level you subscribe at, you'll have act, no matter what level you subscribe at, you're going to have access to, uh, commercial free episodes of the DTFH along with, uh,

once a month, I do an hour rambling rant thing. There's just all kinds of, there's by now, there's got to be, I don't know how many, many, many, many, many hours of content out there. Plus you'll have access to podcasts before they hit the main feed. For example, uh, I've already recorded a few podcasts, one of them with one of my brilliant friends, the incredible musician, Emil Amos. That's going to appear over on the Patreon today. Uh, so subscribe.

We've got a beautiful shop located at dugitrussell.com. Just click on the shop link and look at our amazing new merch. Okay. That's it. My dear friends, today's guest has a fantastic podcast. It's called history on fire. There'll be links to that podcast at dugitrussell.com. He's also an author who's written a wonderful book called make your own

religion and he's brilliant. He's a teacher, he's a historian, a martial artist, and I'm proud to say he's one of my friends. Everybody, please welcome back to the DTFH. Danielly Bolleli. Hey, Mr Bolleli, welcome back to the DTFH. Tell me how is life in Ojai? I know you've made, did you relocate before the pandemic or during the pandemic?

Right as much as it started, as they started closing everything down. I'm like, okay, there's really nothing left for me to do in LA because, you know, my teaching job, everything went online. My daughter's cool. Well, there is no school. She does stuff online. So I'm like, okay, why are we in LA again? Okay, let's move to I, Dan.

Jesus Christ, that's so decisive. Yeah, I felt like, you know what, might as well, let's get out of the big sea. We wanted to be done anyway. You know, we were going to move in June and I was back, I don't know, April, I guess, or late March, something like that. And so we were like, yeah, might as well. Let's go enjoy, let's go, go for a new house. Let's enjoy it and see what's up.

I've heard that in Ojai, no one's paying attention to any of the rules. Is that not true? I've heard that in Ojai, the face, no one's really wearing face masks, that you can go to a cafe and sit there, right? Like things are opened up there. Is that a rumor? Is that true? Until the other day, they were still pretty strict.

Just this past weekend, things have changed and it seems like people have just done a complete 180 and so, yeah, they are running around and you see less face masks and all of that. How do you feel about that? Man, it's one of those I really don't know. You know, I find it funny that people seem to have super strong opinions on this, despite the fact that the evidence to me seems really limited, to say the least. So I'm like, you know what, for once I can, I'm cool with not having a strong

opinion, with not being sure of what the right thing to do is. Because, because honestly, I don't fully understand the whole coronavirus thing. You know, I understand that, yeah, it's not the black plague. I also do understand that it's not the flu. I don't know, I rather play safe rather than not. But honestly, I find it I'm actually amazed how how much people seem to have really strong opinion over something rather complicated. Well, you know, it's a really interesting time in history, I think,

because we are still so stuck in the material universe that we don't even talk about psychic pandemics, psychic contagion, and everything has to have a kind of material basis to it. Even though Jung talked about it, and there, I'm sure you could probably tell me about recorded times in history where hysteria swept through the land that didn't even seem to have a connection to a virus. It didn't, aren't there documented cases of this? Oh man, there's one that I just did an episode of this thing for history on fire

that's in 1518 in Strasbourg, border between Germany and France. What known as the dancing plague, where one lady just walks out in the street and starts dancing. He's like, okay, not a big deal, except that she keeps going and going and going until she passes out. And then she wakes up and like, okay, so she's gonna tell us what's up, but she starts dancing again until she passes out. And it becomes clearly that this is a compulsion.

It's not something that she's doing for fun. Her feet are bleeding. She's completely in another state of consciousness. And okay, it's disturbing, but it's one lady, except that after that, it become 20 people in town and then 50 and then 200 and then 400. And they start dying because they dance themselves into a heart attack. And so it's one of the strippy things of history that nobody really knows what the hell happened.

There's no to this day, no one's sure that it's just suddenly. I mean, isn't that I might be getting these confused. Is that the one where they think that it could be that they had infected wheat or something? They that was that was one of the theories, but it doesn't quite add up because for one, usually doesn't make you dance for days on end, unless you keep consuming it and even then the dancing part is not necessarily what fits. Also, it was the wrong season of the year in terms of when the

fungus would grow on the wheat and all of that. So, you know, it's clearly something is off and but no, you know, they say mass hysteria, but okay, mass hysteria is not an explanation. It's just telling us it's describing what's happening, but it's not really telling us why. So you can look, I think it functions in a way that is really similar to the spread of a disease. There's a transmission that happens through some form of contact.

In that case, it had to be, you know, physical contact, right? Like it wasn't that people heard about this dancing plague and other places and started dancing. You needed to be in the presence of it to be pulled into whatever that was. Right. Yeah. And in fact, that's one of the things that's funny, too, that the town government, because they are enlightened 1500s people, they are not like those backward guys from the 1300s when they initially say, oh,

this must be demonic possession. The town government say, no, no, no, we believe in science, not the superstition. And the doctors tell us that is hot blood and the way to get rid of hot blood is to physical exertion. So yeah, make them dance and keep going. So we hire musicians. We just so that they get it out of their system.

And then they realize, oh, damn, it's not working. These guys are dying like flies. They hired musicians. Yes. And so they start putting musicians all over the town, all over town in public places to kind of encourage these guys to keep dancing and dancing to get it out of their system. So that there was some kind of state enabling of this hysteria.

And then they realize, oh, damn, we messed up is actually killing them right there and helping them. So we do the opposite. We ban old music. Nobody's allowed to play music anywhere in town now. And so, you know, they basically are throwing everything that sticks and trying to see what works. And the problem is that nothing is working.

And so that's what, you know, what about restraining people? What about grabbing them and tying them up so they can't dance anymore? Yeah, they seem to be like twitching and stuff. So eventually what they do is that they take them, the survivors, they take them to the shrine of Synvitos, because that's where the term Synvitos dance come from, of this like compulsive dancing that was supposed to be associated with the saint. And they take them to the saint and the sources tell us that some people

after they recovered and others did not. And but they don't tell us what happened to the one who did not. They kept dancing, baby. They're dancing to this day. Exactly. Well, well, this. OK, so in there's other examples, right? Like maybe you could talk a little bit about the stuff Freud was studying, hysterical paralysis, that stuff.

Yeah, I mean, that's the. And in fact, it's not actually unique one. The thing that's unique about this case is that we have the most documentation for it. You know, there's a shit ton of evidence. So it's like we know it happened. There are a bunch of others that were similar, often involved dancing, but not always that, you know, they are kind of group under these hysterical phenomenon.

But again, to me, when they say hysterical phenomenon, it doesn't fully really explain what's going on to say that it's psychological. I mean, sure, it could be. But how do we know for sure? How do we know that it's and why does it happen? In that place to a whole ton of people, but not at other times and places? I don't know. It seems really bizarre. Well, I mean, this I could because that's such an.

An. Quantifiable example of it because it's so extreme. People talk about it, but. We do see other versions of this that maybe appear to have some mild logic attached to them. But ultimately, when you see it, you realize that what you're looking at is absolute insanity. For example, Black Friday riots.

Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yes. Right. This is psychic contamination. Like these people have become obsessed with the idea of getting these great deals that it's almost like achieving the purchase is what matters more than what they're buying. They are like or or what happens is that because you see a group of people clustered around a door of a target or whatever. We've been waiting there forever to get in.

You could you feel compelled to get in, too. You see it with, you know, any kind of marketing campaign that becomes too successful. Yeah. Right. I couldn't you say that that is a form of. Insanity or contamination or a mental disorder that has been induced by corporate entities. I mean, one hundred percent, because when you look at I mean, a lot of our behaviors, when you look at them outside of their context, sometimes it makes no sense.

That's why when you look at a different culture, when you're not raised in that culture and you look at what's considered normal in it, most outsiders go like, what the hell is going on here? Like, you know, it's like you're telling me that we need to rip the heart out of the chest of so many people a year because unless we feed the blood to the sun, then the sun will stop rising and and everybody goes along with it. And it's like, wait, what? You know, if you are not, if you don't grow up with it, it looks like insanity.

If you don't grow up with the idea that slavery is cool, then, you know, now if if you start going around saying slavery is cool, you're nuts. You got issues. If you didn't think that slavery was cool to 100 years ago, you are some weird, strange guy who probably need to be restrained or something. You know, so it's very bizarre how that works. And then in specific behaviors, you know, not only in social institutions, it's pretty weird, but even specific behaviors is kind of like the thing is

like if somebody is staring at the sky and then other guys start trying to see what that person is staring at. And before you know it, you have a bunch of people are all staring at the sky. We're absolutely nothing happening. But somehow they feel that because the other people are doing it, there must be something to it. So let's check it out. This to me is one of the more dangerous qualities of having a human psyche,

which is that it clearly is hackable. It clearly is the kind of operating system that can, it's easier to hack than any operating system out there right now. You, the human consciousness, the human mind and its ability to assess reality has so many flaws in it that these flaws can be so easily exploited, especially if, you know, humans haven't been taught, I guess, how to like create their own sort of psychic firewalls to prevent that kind of contamination. I mean, I'm so susceptible to it, man.

Like if I'm around someone who's in a really bad mood, if I'm not careful, suddenly I'll find myself getting in a really bad mood, you know? And that is, that's contagion. Like that is their energetic display hypnotizes me sometimes before I'm even aware it's happening. And then the next thing I know, I'm feeling all dreary and shit only because I've harmonized with this person who more than likely is just one link in a chain.

Maybe they were watching, you know, a Hannity or some shit or maybe, you know what I mean? They are maybe, maybe they just got a phone call from somebody who was in a bad mood and that person, and so suddenly you realize like, Oh my God, it's these pandemics have been happening perpetually. It's just the ones that we become the most concerned about, which seems a little crazy are the ones that like make us physically ill. Sure.

Even, even though the contagions that cause Nazism, child sacrifice, you know, slavery, these things are looked at more along the lines of moments in history or like societal evolutions or deevolutions, but no one, I don't know too much that people have looked into is like, no, that's a psychic plague. Well, and I think, I think you're a hundred percent spot on with the fact that most people, you know, my feeling is that most people are not evil, but that most people are psychologically very, I guess calling it weak is casting a value judgment on it, but definitely very susceptible to being

manipulated. You know, that's why cult leaders, that's why dictators, that's why people who know how to play other people emotions have a really easy time. Playing the crowds, you know, making people do things that if somebody told them a year before, this is what you're going to be doing, they're like, no way, that's insanity. But somehow with the right words, with the right music coming at the right time in the right crowd, all of that suddenly becomes

perfectly logical. That's why, you know, the the psychology of crowds is the very different from the psychology of individuals, because most people, when they are in a crowd, their individuality, their own separate critical thinking start kind of going down the drain and they become part of this larger entity. Yeah. And this is, I think, you know, like, maybe you could like talk a little

bit about the discovery of germs and how controversial it was when people discovered germs. Yeah, because, okay, let me jump into it. Just one quick thing. Sorry if I killed the flow of the conversation for a second. Just making sure we're doing things right on the long distance. You are recording on your side as well. Yes, that's right.

Okay, perfect. Good. Okay. So I'll shut up and get back to business. Um, yeah. I mean, that whole concept, the idea of, it wasn't until that long ago when doctors would regularly kill patients that they operated on on a fairly regular basis, because the idea that you actually wash your hands before

sticking your fingers through somebody's wound was like, what, why would you do that? What's because nobody had figured it out, right? Nobody had figured. So, you know, like, if you look at something like the civil war in the United States, insane numbers of people died. And now a bunch died because of malnutrition, because of terrible condition, because of being shot at, but a lot of them died because of

relatively minor wounds that then get touched on by doctors who just gave them gangrene, you know, and you're talking about the American Civil War, you know, late 1800s, not a million years ago. And before that, in order to explain things that would happen, you know, everything got to be boiled down to things like witchcraft, you know, if there are no germs, if that's not what makes people sick, then clearly what makes people sick must be some kind of spiritual attack by malevolent entities. And that was the norm.

And for that matter, it still is the norm within some culture as a way to think about it, you know, and so we just like, wow, that's that would change your understanding of reality quite a bit. Now, having said that, just because you figured out that there are germs, it doesn't mean that there may not be other level where things are happening. You know, it doesn't mean that because that's the idea of the ultramaterialistic worldview is that now we figured out scientifically all these other things in which the universe operates, so all the stuff we

believed before, spirits, this, that, that must all be fake. And he's like, maybe, maybe, not necessarily, you know, the two things are not necessarily entirely, they are all ways to explain reality. Now, clearly, some have more evidence backing them than others. But realistically, we are monkeys trying to figure shit out that's way more complicated than our brains can comprehend. In our microscopes for psychic contagion, our art, I guess, or what's, you know, showing up in the cinema or trends, social trends, fashion, you know,

like we don't really like the, the, the interesting thing regarding the transmission of pretty much of just culture itself is that we don't start Duncan, one quick cut that's sure, no problem going to shit. Okay. Okay. You are saying something Duncan. So with germs, you know, people start accepting it because you could show that under a microscope, they're these fucking things.

Mm-hmm. When it comes to the transmission of ideas, we don't really have a means of like, there's no way to scan a person and say, my friend, you have become infected with a variety of fear memes that are corroding your very existence and not only that, but because of these fear memes, you are sneezing out paranoia to everyone you come in contact with and it's transmitting it like with the germs, we could say, all right, you wear a face mask and it's going to lower your ability to transmit disease to people around you.

But with ideas, you, one of the qualities of being infected with fear is that you want to fucking talk about it. Yup. Like that, that the way that a cold will make you sneeze, fear conceptualizations and not just fear love, anything that you find to be novel that has taken up your brain space is going to make you very enthusiastic about wanting to spread that information. And the difference being that the sneezes, this feels like an automatic function.

But when you're at a dinner party telling people that you think a meteor is going to hit the earth, you have this sense of like free will. Like you feel like you've decided to talk about this and somewhere in there, I think would be the way to start approaching a conceptualization of psychic contagion that makes it quantifiable, which is the, you know, the next time you're mid earbeating, where you find yourself telling somebody like, fuck man, I think there's going to be riots in LA and you're deep in that conversation, ask yourself, why did you start talking about that?

Yup. And if you look for me, like if I look at that, it's like, oh shit, I'm not really sure there was like an itch kind of like that. I wanted to scratch and then suddenly you're, you're like expressing this stuff, which is sticky and then it spreads. And then the next thing you know, this is where I think we're running into this like real confusing moment when it comes to the media, which is if they can, by showing an angle of reality, cause the thing that they're talking

about to happen, it wouldn't have happened if that, you know what I mean? If they, if like, depending on the way they are editorializing their, their data, uh, they can literally summon up the events that they are claiming are happening, you know what I mean? They aren't really quite happening. Absolutely. And I think that's why it's weird to, how can I put it? Let me take a step back to figure out how I want to say it, because I guess

what I'm thinking is about the way modern communication is taking place and particularly social media, you know, on one hand, that has been, there has been so much good stuff to come out of it. You know, I've met so many wonderful people thanks to it. Internet has opened doors that we couldn't even dream about before. So there's some amazing stuff that has happened. At the same time, the fact that anybody can talk about anything and have their audience of the people who are tuned into it, or kind of hijack somebody

audience by just going to comment on some famous people stuff, you start having the issue that Joe, whatever the fuck, who doesn't know he said from his ass, as as much of a voice as somebody who's like the enlightened master, so to speak, which, you know, on one end, the idea of having this sort of democratic approach to communication is very cool. On the other hand, there's the problem that is exactly what you are describing, which is when everybody can put stuff out there and some people, the stuff that they put out there may not be the most helpful for other human beings.

They may just be fanning the flames of fear, fanning the flames of hatred, fanning the flames of distrust of other cynicism, all those energies that make human beings particularly nastier to one another. When that's happening on and, you know, the people who are doing it are the first victims of this. So they got it from somebody else. And in turn, they pass it to someone else. So I don't make it as a personal thing, but the end result is the same.

It's it's terrible. You know, you are spreading this nasty stuff all over. And and that's kind of what you are saying about why did I say this? Why, you know, and really stopping to think about what is the make you say something and what is that you want to put out into the universe? Because sometimes that initial inclination of I just want to say it it feels right to say it. Let's take a step back.

What's going to be the outcome of you saying it? What kind of impact will it have on other people? Is there really the best use of language that you can make at this point in time? Or maybe there's something else that would help somebody go through their day in a better fashion. And it's hard because, you know, we have the same emotion every so it's not that like, you know, one person is in full control of their emotion and everything else, and they can just play this game with perfect ability

to know exactly what they are doing. But at the same time, to be able to step back and do that a little bit is so important. Well, it's, you know, I think what you are saying regarding number one, the recognition that the people like if you if we reframe the way we think about fear mongers. And instead of looking at them as, you know, lunatics who are malefic and their intention is to cause chaos via their ability to spread bad data throughout the world

and reframe it so that now you're literally just looking at somebody who is crawling with data worms, basically. Like if I know if we're hanging out in the jungle, you and me, Daniela Trump one day, I hope we are. Let's hang out in the jungle. Let's do that. And you were to get, let's say, dysentery. Mm hmm.

And you were just shitting yourself all the time. It's basically every Tuesday. Yes, I would not be saying to you. What's wrong with you, man? Mm hmm. Why are you trying to hurt us? Right. Oh, you're you, you're a Nazi or you're a whatever, a commie,

or you're a whatever the fucking thing is, or I would just be like, man, you are like sick as fuck. We got to figure out a way to like get this out of you. But I think the problem is the moment you start kicking around the idea that there is some possibility that we have not yet quantified. These living data fields that have the quality of mounting people and driving them into hysterical ways of living their day to day life.

Then suddenly now you're running into some kind of other dark place, which is like, all right, well, what do you want to form? A ministry of truth? Yeah, exactly. Right. Like, you know, like, what are we going to do? Like form, because now it's like, oh, no, no, no, your religion is actually an infection. You just don't realize you've been infected through this weird temporal

contagion that makes you think that, you know, there's a Jesus, which, you know what I mean? Because that's where it goes. And then it doesn't just stop there. It goes into like, oh, no, no, no, capitalism. Well, that's a disease. Like you've been infected with it. That and what we're going to do is take you to a new kind of hospital.

We're going to cure your ass, motherfucker. You know, and that's what they're doing in China. Yeah. And so, so, but that, that, that being said, I do think like right now, watching the pandemic holistically and seeing at the very least the way that information is being spread as connected to the COVID-19. You know what I mean?

Like the, the, the way people are, it's like, yes, you might not have the literal infection in your body yet. And you might not have developed the antibodies. You might have not have been exposed to the actual disease. But at this point, every single one of us has been exposed to the idea of the disease. You know, and the idea of the disease at the very least is a kind of psychic reflection of the virus itself.

You know, like, and in that, you could say that if you're, that if, that every single one of us right now in some way, shape or form has been contaminated. Yeah. Because I mean, something like, you know, when has that ever happened? The whole world goes on to different degrees, because clearly didn't happen to the same degree of severity everywhere. But you have a global lockdown. That's completely unprecedented, right?

I mean, you, and then also it's unprecedented because we never had the same conditions because, you know, back in the 1300s or something, things were not so interconnected. So even without having to declare a lockdown, you pretty much had it anyway, because everybody stared in the little village, you just had to close the gate so that the five travelers who come through once a year don't show up. But, you know, right, wasn't that different from your everyday life. Today, clearly is very different because we don't live that way.

And also, you know, if you don't go to the grocery store, you starve. Back in the day, everybody lived the, you know, most people lived off the land for better or worse, right? But there was a direct connection with food that no longer is there today. So in some way, you know, it's hard to, you can really look at the stuff that happened in the past as a model, because we never had the conditions that we have today, and it's a completely different gig. Now, and of course, so everybody gets psychologically affected by this.

Inevitably, I mean, it's like you have such a dramatic shift in the way we live our daily life. And not only that, but also you have such a dramatic shift in expectations. Like most people have no idea what their lives will be six months from now, right? It could all be back completely to normal. Maybe not. Could you travel? Can you go see your, you know, all things that were taking asses really? Because, you know, the virus could mutate and become progressively weaker,

as often viruses do. So, boom, OK, problems solved, it was scary, done. Or something, you know, we don't know, that's the thing. And so I think that's uncertainty. Humans, as a general rule, don't do well with uncertainty. That's why we have to make up stuff for things we can't explain. When it comes to something like this that affect every aspect, not just possibly of the future or existential questions about the afterlife,

but your very present day-to-day life, that would create a hell of a lot of fear of... And again, many people are sort of the victims of the fear bug. Then there are some people who are just straight-up grifters who don't necessarily believe certain things, but they figured out that there's an audience that is already has all the receptors ready to tune into that, and they just feed it to them on a daily basis,

even though they may not believe it, but they figured that there's money to be made that way. Yeah, this is actually one of the more creepy conversations I had with it. I, back in the ancient times, I used to love having conversations with Uber drivers. And when I was in New York with the taxi drivers, would tell you the craziest shit if they felt like talking. And one of the really creepy conversations I had with this Syrian taxi driver in New York was he was talking about ISIS.

And he said that they've been around forever. They always have different names for themselves, but he compared them to, I think, God, like some kind of creature that comes out when there's been a war. And he said that they just show up whenever things are really out of balance and start doing what ISIS was doing, which is like exploiting the imbalance to gain power. And that's the grifters that you're talking about is they're like these people

who either individually or the scarier version is collectively, whenever there's the opportunity of vulnerability psychically within people, which is what this is. I mean, in the same way you have to, before you're going to get gang green, you need to get a wound. And so you get a thing like this pandemic and you could say, okay, we suddenly, we have a collective wound, which is the fear, the unknowing, the instability

and a complete shift in our pattern that opens us up to the, we're going to be more likely to be infected with bullshit in that state. And so then you realize these grifters, you're talking, they're people who recognize that. They're like, okay, we've got like a wounded, a globally wounded civilization. So let's start pouring our own contaminated information into that wound. And by doing that, we can begin to reshape the way society functions

according to whatever our particular intentions may be. And so to me, you know, that, just knowing like, God damn, like I've said this before, I'm sorry, it's such a weird thing to say, but like I'm always fascinated by how good people are at skateboarding now. Cause I look at it as an example of, I guess some form of like evolution that happened so fast when you look at like, you know, it's only been going on for what, 30, 40 years. And already you've got kids who are basically flying.

And you know, think how long war has been going on for. And so if skateboarding, if people have gotten so good at skateboarding, in less than 50 years, how much better have they gotten at war? Yeah. And how much better have they gotten at like really understanding ways to create new modes of invasion that are information based, which, you know, I think you could say Goebbels innovated this, right? In World War II, he was one of the, he's one of the pioneers of this form of invasion,

which is you start a campaign of like propaganda and then that's a psychic contagion, spread whatever your particular memetic virus is through the psyche of surrounding countries. And the next thing you know, the first two places the Nazis invaded, they were like, come on in. They're excited to see them like, come on, please, we need you, right? And like, so that it's not like people who are into war. It's not like the militaries of the world and whoever the people are that study war and wear certain strategies of work, didn't look at that and think, wow,

that's way better than biological warfare, which wipes people out and keeps structures intact. Because that doesn't fucking kill the people. It actually turns them into our slaves. Yep, even better deal. Even better deal. And so, you know, when I'm getting all conspiratorial and paranoid and shit, I just start thinking like, man, how creepy would it be if someone like engineered some kind of perfect virus that really wasn't designed to like kill people like the Black Plague,

but it was more designed to disrupt society and they developed the virus simultaneously with a campaign of Psyops campaign, you know? So like, you don't just build the virus. It's like, no, build the Psyops about what we're going to do when the virus gets released. And then that's how you get people's brains tenderized to get ready for a non-invasion, meaning just like all of a sudden, we're all just like, we're all just like in our houses, in a police state, pretending we're not in a fucking police state, you know? And like that, you know, I'm not saying that's what's happening necessarily,

but I'm just saying like, whoa, that would be an evolution of warfare, of like germ warfare, which is in the beginning of thinking about germ warfare, the idea is like, it's just fucking spread a plague. Let's launch the plague dog into the castle that's under siege, let everybody die in there or get so sick, they don't care if they're alive. And then we've got the castle, no problem, right? This is like, let's launch something into the castle that doesn't kill them, just terrifies the shit out of them so that they end up opening the gates

so that we come in to save their fucking asses. And now we've got the people and the castle, ultimate victory. Definitely the ultimate victory. Now, my question on that is what's the end game? Because usually the people who would have the means to pull something like that off already ruled the game. They, you know, they don't need to turn you into something. You're already their little slave, you know?

Because to some degree, they already pull all the strings, you know? It's kind of like the famous, the Trump line, right? You know, I could shoot somebody in the middle of the street and I wouldn't lose a vote. So if you are already feeling that there's that level of power and realistically, you know, a lot of the people who are pulling the strings are at that level of power. Why would you even need to create a whole upheaval? And, you know, he's like, you already got what you want. Some of the people who have something to gain are the ones who are not there yet.

But usually the ones who are not there yet is they don't have the means to pull it off. Well, see, this is the pro this this now. OK, so this part of it is a great point. But the means to pull it off if this isn't a very important thing for people to realize these days is that there, you know, 20 years ago, there is no fucking way you and I will be having this conversation because we didn't have the means to pull it off, right? You know? But now we do thanks to the evolution of technology, which is not just limited

to podcasting, YouTube, which, you know, at this point, people are everyone just takes it for granted. But it's like, everyone, if you want to start your own network, you can start your own network. Like with like, if you want to start, if you have the time, you could buy a webcam and start your own network. You could have segments and shows every day. Now the shows are going to be shit, but you know, one show could be look at my wall as time passes for an hour.

And then after look at my wall as time passes for an hour, we're going to you can see a live footage of my dog sleeping. And then after that, I'm going to come on and talk about, you know, my little pony. And then after that, you could have your own network for lit for like with the cost of the computer and the webcam, probably 600 bucks is going to be a shitty network. No one's going to watch it, but you can do that now. And so that doesn't just stop with, you know, that kind of technology, which, which by the way, it's just like the power of that is so profound and we already talked about that

earlier on anybody, you know, with, with a mildest bit of, I mean, imagine Jim Jones if he had fucking Twitter, you know, imagine that charismatic motherfucker, if he had a YouTube channel and was able to restrain his, uh, you know, insanity enough to like convey to people that there was not a potentially murderous messianic lunatic living behind that like rock star face, you know what I mean? Like, holy fuck, he could have caused some trouble, man. So it's safe to say that at this point, we've got a lot of Jim Jones out there who are like really restraining themselves, um, as they gather their flocks, so to speak.

So, but it doesn't just stop with communication technology and psychic contagion. It literally moves into people's ability to, to engineer their own fucking viruses, man. What are they called VRI? I don't know what the plural of viruses. I'm sorry, but so the assumption used to be, you know, this is being done by people who have massive, like if you want to engineer a bio weapon, you need to have massive resources. It might not be like that anymore.

Right. And the, that means that, look, I mean, think of like PETA, they do can't, they do psychic warfare all the time. Think of not just PETA, any like, you know, uh, social movement that has views that some, that, you know, maybe you could say the majority sees extreme, like they have throughout history, people like that have caused massive change to the point where the extreme views no longer seem extreme. And these aren't state entities.

These are just clusters of people, cobbles of people who have a shared intent. And so, yeah, I think the, you know, one of the things that is a little disconcerting is that I don't know if the assumption that a bio weapon is going to, is the assumption that if a bio weapon exists, it's made by a state agency is necessarily, I don't know if that, if you can assume that anymore, just based on people's access to technology. The game has changed. Meaning that, you know, so, you know, this is where you run into the future of society, which is that increasingly smaller factions of people with extreme viewpoints for better

or for worse, have access to more powerful technology and have the ability to potentially shut the entire planet down. And during that shutdown, disseminate ideas that prior to the shutdown might have seemed extreme. You know what I'm saying? And if we know historically that this does happen, this does happen. Look at fucking the, I'm sorry, I've just been watching this creepy ass documentary on Netflix about the Nazis.

And look at what happened, man, the Great Depression. The Great Depression happens and that's when they made their move. And you know what I mean? So it's not, it's not what I'm saying. I'm not like Alex Jones over here. It's like this, that there's a historic precedent for these types of events to happen throughout history. I'm sure you're aware of a million more than I am.

No, no, of course. I mean, in fact, that's one of the funny things about the so-called conspiracy theories that just because 90% of conspiracy theories are bad shit crazy, doesn't mean they all are because then you know that there are others that are 100% true. And that's what kind of sometimes makes it complicated because by definition, conspiracies are a secret. So, you know, you have to dig through some limited evidence to try to figure out which one is the real one.

And of course, people sometimes can run a little too far with the evidence and, you know, make up stuff that's not there. But at the same time, there's also stuff that really does happen. And so that's what makes it complicated. And just because it's sound outlandish doesn't mean either way. You know, it doesn't mean it's the real deal just because governments have fucking things or not just government, as you say right now, because that the game has changed, but like just because there have been things like that doesn't mean that

they are all true. And vice versa, just because most of them are crap doesn't mean they all are. And that's what makes it a tricky business. But then of course, then you get the exactly the Alex Jones kind of thing where it's like, I realize that there's an audience for this and I'm just going to run with every single one I have a year and I'll make up a few along the way because these might be else. Right.

Yeah. Well, or, you know, I don't, you know, honestly, I don't think Alex Jones, I think for him, you know, it's, I think like, you know, you can, you can just end up. There's a slippery slope, I think that happens to a person. If you're not careful, it happened. This happened to me before where you forsake logic and, you know, you become, you let your sort of the, your North star become your passion or what you think of as your infallible, fear-based instincts and a general distrust of humanity.

And then, you know, you get this dark confirmation bias that takes you down the slippery slope and the next thing, you know, you think that, you know, people who are running the show can turn themselves into lizards and you really believe that once you, you know, then, then, then the next thing, you know, you're like, what, listen, let me tell you. If I saw fucking Joe Biden turn himself into a lizard, you better believe that's all I talk about from now on. I would not hold back.

Like I would change the name of my podcast, if Biden's a lizard and I would just say, I saw it, I don't care. I saw it happen. There are fucking lizard people out there, but, you know, the, the symbolically, maybe I could understand that, but I don't think literally it happens. That being said, uh, and, and, you know, I'm not, I feel like I'm doing my own form of fear mongering right here. I don't know what the fuck is happening with this pandemic.

I have found generally the boring answer is the right answer. It's some sad version of Occam's razor, which is the least exciting thing is what's happened usually, usually, but this, this is why I love talking about you because you know, historically, sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes historically brilliant people utilize powerful strategy over time to invade, to gain power, to just take the reins of history and gallop off into their own fucking future. This is not conspiracy theory.

This is real. We know it. It's called the American fucking revolution. You know, it happens. People gather in the shadows and they say, I don't want to pay taxes to, to the fucking England anymore. And they have to gather in shadows and do that because if they don't, they're going to get arrested.

And then there's a revolution. And so to imagine that people aren't gathering in shadows right now during a time where there is so much economic disparity, so much exploitation of workers. So much, uh, environmental catastrophe and so seemingly little care at all from the world leaders. And if they do care, it only seems shrill and confused to imagine that during this time, there aren't very intelligent people getting together thinking, listen, I'm sorry, I don't want my fucking kids to have to row a boat through sewage to

get to school because sea levels have gone up. I don't want my kids to be part of the vast refugee crisis. That's going to happen when coastal cities are no longer inhabitable. And so knowing that, uh, we're going to have to do something that, you know, history can judge us for it. I'm just saying it's not unprecedented. I mean, why wouldn't people do that? Liluni tunes, fucking dumb ass Nazis, you know, they did it because they

thought Jews were somehow evil. Right. You know, they were that fucking crazy. But in this case, we're looking at like, again, I'm sorry, man, I don't mean to be on this rant, but it's, you could just see how in the same way, like we want to have faster phones, there's market pressure to have faster phones. You could see how if the majority of the world's scientists are coming out and

saying, Oh man, this planet, you don't necessarily want to be here in 60 years. Right. How, whether, whether that's true or not, no matter what, you could just see how if enough people started believing that and they weren't seeing movement on the part of the state to do the things they needed to be done to make sure that our kids aren't going to be living in some fiery swamp, then I don't know. There's some market pressure there for folks to start taking things into their own hands.

I'm not saying that's what happened. No, no, no, but I get it. I completely get it. And it's also interesting when you were mentioning the Jim Jones example, because, you know, in some cases, this type of stuff is done by very lucid minds who have a clear goal and that's what they want to achieve. In other cases, like the Jim Jones and just about every other cult in history and plenty of dictators is a mix of having a plan and kind of getting lost in

your own weird mental illness where, you know, you start believing the stuff you make up, you know, it's like I had a grandma who she would, you know, reality was never quite good enough for her. So she would have to, she felt like I lied, right? She made up stuff all the time about things that happened. And then, but the funniest thing was that within about five minutes, she would believe it and it was pretty clear that that made up a version of events she just created was reality to her at that point.

Yeah, you're like, wow, OK, that changes things a little bit because it's not just you are cynically making it up because you want to achieve something. You're also your own first victim and your first victim. That's great. That's cool. Yeah, I mean, the Jim Jones thing is like it's wild because on one hand, Jim Jones was 100 percent sincere in what he was doing. And on the other hand, he was just a lion manipulator at the same time. There's a great series, by the way.

I don't know if you had a chance to check it out. There's a phenomenal podcast in Daryl Cooper, who's doing like a multi hour series on the Jim Jones stuff. I can't for the life of me pronounce the name of the podcast. I'll have to require Savannah Selp. How do you pronounce it? Martyr Maid. Martyr Maid.

OK, thank you. So, yeah, he has he's in the middle of the series where he ties it to the civil rights movement, to what was going on with Jim Jones kind of personal psychology and all of that. And he'll really give you like suddenly you understand why people are drinking Kool-Aid in Guyana, you know, suddenly it doesn't seem as insane anymore. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, God, it's not to me. This is the sort of where you do end up veering into this dark place where you you realize, oh, my God, if we truly just entered the realm of pure absurdity,

and you know, it's like shit, you know, that at least those people who are dancing, you know, you know, they they were like they could only do it for a limited time right because they would die or have heart attacks or whatever. But, you know, what happens when you just look at like entire planet of people who are, you know, at least prior to this pandemic, they weren't dancing, but they were getting in cars and driving to an office where they would sit in a cubicle next to a person that they would only see if they were going to use the bathroom or have lunch.

And they might, you know, maybe a few times a week, they would have meetings where their bodies would all gather together and they would say things that they could easily have just said over a computer. And on top of that, there was a superstition attached to it, a kind of religious sentimentality related to their meetings and meeting culture, as it's called, so that they would think to themselves, there is no way that this can be as effective if we don't get our physical bodies next to each other.

And now at least what we're finding is actually it's still fucking works. And I don't, to me, I don't know where the voice is. There needs to be a voice of someone being like, wait a minute. So you mean the last 15 years of my life where I've been driving two hours in and two hours out in thick fucking traffic to get my body next to other bodies? That was just a symbolic gesture to satiate some lunatic CEO's superstitious idea that human bodies need to be next to each other if we're going to be productive.

So like all those two hours, me being away from my family, all that shit was completely unfucking necessary just because some power hungry fucking CEO. It's the same thing as believing in witchcraft. It's the same thing believing the witches are souring the milk, only in this case, to this day, you have like, I think it was a Microsoft CEO lamenting, lamenting the inability to have in person meetings. And it's like that lament that if, you know, you wanted to hear the sound of COVID, that's what it sounds like.

You know what I mean? Some fucking guy is making a million dollars, 10 million dollars a month or whatever he's making, saying, oh, you know, I just, I need the bodies of my workers together in the same space so they can smell my fucking pheromones as I control them, you know? The last three minutes of your speech is one of the greatest threads I've ever heard. And by the way, in a comedic kind of way, but also in a very literal kind of way.

It's exactly what I've been thinking for quite even before the pandemic, to be honest, he was one of the singers, like a lot of the shit that we're doing just makes no sense. This idea that people granted there are jobs that you need to do in person, for sure. But there are plenty of those that, you know, so many jobs that don't need it. And so your three minute rant or whatever long it was, should be published on every news media, should be the top video on YouTube,

because I think it's absolutely key to shaping the kind of stuff we're going to be doing in the future, because you're right. I mean, the stuff that this idea of everybody getting into their metal box to drive to a cubicle somewhere to be miserable away from their family, it just makes no sense. You know, it's something that never made sense. It may have made sense in pre-internet days, where you did need to type something out and physically hand it to somebody and be right there.

But post-internet has been completely ridiculous. It's one of the things that I think has existed because people who went through it wanted other people to is almost like hazing, right? It's like I had to deal with this shit. So now you're going to what? You think you're going to work at home? You think you're going to be on the beach typing away while you're playing with your kids?

Hell no. You need to come to the office and suffer the same way I did. That's right. You better not be in fucking bed, by the way. If you're doing your zoom meetings, you better not be in bed. You've got to be at least looking like you're that's the other piece of it. These people are having to like do shit like home there and stuff for the zoom meeting to symbolically give some indication that they're still adhering

to this ancient ritual, which is pointless. It was, but there was a point. You're absolutely right in the era of file cabinets. Yeah, we needed to, you know, have people taking printed out shit from office to office to hand to people, but we're just not in that age anymore. And so yeah, man, to me, hopefully this, this is something I deeply hope is that folks who have experienced no reduction in productivity. And it's going to be the responsibility of the CEOs.

They've got to abandon their superstitious qualities. They have to let go of it. They have to admit to themselves. You can just secretly admit it to yourself that part of the reason you wanted to have meetings is because you are a fucking lonely megalomaniac and you just felt powerful in your meetings. Like that was it. You needed that feeling because, you know, whatever, it didn't work out for you

in your personal life. And so that, that to me is like, you just have to acknowledge like, oh shit, damn, I didn't mean to like, I was acting like some kind of king or something. I'm not a king. I'm just a person who got lucky and worked hard and had a, has a cool job. But man, I shouldn't be torturing my fellow human beings. And I think the workers, I really hope at the very least fight tooth and nail for the right to work from home and that, and that not only fight tooth and nail,

but fight tooth and nail to be paid more for working from home. Because if we reduce office space, then the workers should be making extra money because the CEOs and the people are no longer going to have to pay exorbitant amounts for commercial real estate. Correct. And so, and still this is what I'm hoping is like the big businesses like Twitter, who are like leading the way in this regard, I think they, they're going to see there's a profit there to be made too, while empowering their

workers, and then I'm done after this and I'm sorry. No, it was perfect. I love it. We, we have to open up the space for workers if they want to get together and work in the old way to do that too. Because some people do not have the ability to work from home because they don't live in a place that's a huge privilege. If you can do that.

So, so we, you know, there, there has to also be a non shaming complete invitation for workers to come work in a, in a, in a, you know, probably a less expansive office space, you know, cause that's the truth. Some people just can't work from home. They've got like roommates and shit. They don't have an internet connection. Their neighbors are loud. They can't concentrate or they just like work.

They like being there. You know, all those things are fine. It just needs to be a choice. Exactly. Absolutely. And that's what it boils down to. You know, it's not, you don't have a system that works for everybody all the time, but certainly some systems work better than others.

And then you just have to tweak them and make the necessary adjustments. So that, yes, it doesn't become the new dogma of everybody need to do it this way, where it may work best for 80% of the people, but it screws up 20% of the people. Well, you don't want to do that just because it works good for a majority of people. Yeah, let's do it for them and figure out what we can do for the remainder. Cause that's ultimately how you make good change rather than jump in from one

partially good system to another partially good system. And that's the way it goes. Absolutely. That's the way it goes. Then, you know, let's take the sum total of all the money for one month that no longer has to get paid for commercial real estate, for the gasoline to drive to the fucking office. Let's pay for, let's take all that money that doesn't have to go from the

health insurance companies to pay for the mini car accidents that happen every day as people are driving to a place they didn't need to be in the first place. Let's take all that extra money that appears and invest that in some kind of virtual reality technology that is indiscernible from reality itself. So that if workers want to, they can, they can hang out with each other using some kind of futuristic, you know, technology that we don't have yet. And then the moment you do that, you achieve the goal, I think of all true hippies, which is a form of non-terrannical globalism, because the globalism

that we're all afraid of is the one where you get like, you know, some group or a counselor, God forbid one person run in the whole planet. But this version of globalism is suddenly the workers of the world can start working together and without being constrained by the borders of countries and states, or by being limited by not being like physically in the same place as the stupid tower of boredom that they're of their office. You know what I mean? So now suddenly these beautiful collaborative spaces start opening up

in virtual space, pay people in fucking untraceable Bitcoin. What now suddenly? What do we got, man? You know what I mean? Now we've got a renaissance popping off, you know? But shit, if this thing ends and everybody's like, yeah, I guess I'll just go back to work because that makes sense because they want me to. But even though everything would seem to be fine here, oh, it's going to be

so disappointing. And, and, ah, man, you know, I do think like in that way, you know, there, if I get to infect the wound with my own desires and intent, it would be that man, just some post pandemic digital utopia, where we get a four hour work week, people no longer have to go to the office and they still get compensated for that day that they don't go in. And that money is to pay for their working from home. Thank you, everybody.

Please vote for me in the next election. Yes, Duncan Trussell for president, I'm down. And if I can add one piece to that puzzle, which I think is absolute perfection, what you are describing is that what happens next also is that cities become obsolete to some degree because you don't need to all live in super expensive, limited space, because that's where the jobs are. You can be living anywhere on earth. You can be living by the ocean, hanging out in a place where is not

prime real estate. And it's cool because you don't have that physical presence that's constantly required. So suddenly, rather than having this insane urban density that creates its own set of problems, people can choose to live wherever they want, close to their friends, having more space, having more land. And speaking of every more land that to me touches on the other thing that the pandemic has shown, which is the suicidal separation that people

have from food production, the fact that if suddenly the trucks have stopped moving for two weeks, you starve. The idea that instead, at least to some degree, everybody could and should plant some of what they eat, which, of course, you can't. If you're living a seven hundred square foot apartment in the city with no space whatsoever, but if suddenly you can move out of the city and you do have a little more space, now you can't plant a garden and you can get some of your food from it.

Well, yeah, you know, yeah, you could have collective garden spaces. Also, man, there's new technology, these beautiful like UV lights that you can hang on your wall and grow your own food. There's all kinds of opportunities to do that. But yeah, you're exactly right. It's like within this, like, you know, again, this all comes down to individuals have to do this. We all have to do this.

You know, like if it's not going to come from up top, it's not going to come from the pheromone vampires who literally want you pinned up in a place like cattle while they fucking just like, you know, go into their, they're like smelling your shit. You know what I mean? They're literally going in the bathroom after you've taken a big dump and like smelling your shit. It's really gross.

It's like, you know, they're not, they're not the, these, these shit smelling pheromone vampires, they're not going to do this. They're, you know, probably cause they're addicted to power. So, and again, I'm not trying to demonize all CEOs. Not all of them are bad. I'm just saying many of them are a little superstitious. Many of them don't want to come in either. But, but, but the ones that do, you know, they're going to fight against this.

And so there's, you know, we're going to have to do this ourselves. It has to be an individual decision to figure out a way to, you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's like a form of union, a new kind of union where workers are like, listen, we're not going to come to the office anymore. We want to keep doing the job, but we don't need to be there anymore. You know that we know that. So we're, we're going to work from home now and you're going to pay us to work from home and you're still going to make more money because you're not going to

pay for commercial real estate. And yeah, and then also, man, this is the kind of thing where it's like, damn, why, why are we in these cities? If not for getting our meat bodies together during the day, you know, then maybe the cities, what happens to the cities though, Danieli? No, and in fact, it's not that they disappear. They don't, because there's still stuff that, you know, if I want to, you know, there are a bunch of activities that are physical activities that you can really

substitute, you know, is like, I, I know so many people into martial arts who are royally screwed right now because they, you know, it's not the same thing. You can't really do martial arts on Zoom. I mean, people cry and it's, you know, okay, sure, you can do it for a few weeks. It's better than nothing, but it's not the same thing. So there are things where being close to other human beings help a whole lot and you need it. So it's not that they disappear, but if you can take 30% of the pressure and

30% of people start distributing elsewhere. Now, the people who are left in the cities have a much easier time and an easier life because there's less traffic, there's less pressure on water, there's less pressure on space. People who are not in the city have an easier, everybody wins, you know, it's like everybody can, it's not a cities from one day to the next disappear. Not everybody wins. No, but it's, it improves things considerably.

But no, man, the people in the beautiful, rustic areas of the world that up until this point have been uninhabited by us city dwellers, because we can't get to work if we go there. Watch out. Yeah, but there are a lot of those areas, you know, even if you take a huge percentage of the population and spread it around the world, you still have probably really low population density in plenty of areas. Is that true?

Well, the world is a pretty big fucking place, right? And, you know, the overwhelming, a lot of people are concentrated in some centers, you know, if you go to, I mean, even in the United States today, go to Wyoming, go to Montana. I think if I remember correctly, Montana, I one pointed a statistics that are way more cows than human. And, you know, that tells you something, you know, that clearly there are spaces that are very, very wide where there really are very few people.

Beautiful. Man, it's beautiful. I mean, this is a real possibility for our civilization. And I just feel like with a reason that, you know, it's, it's, it's an embarrassment when you, I mean, not really embarrassing, but because there's no one to be embarrassed anymore, they're all dead. But like what you were saying about the dancing thing, it's like, you know, it's embarrassing to even imagine that level of insanity, you know, and it's easy

for us to take this lofty modern look, look back at the explanations they're giving for this hysterical dancing and judge it. And then God, they're really out of their fucking minds. But clearly in the future, they're going to look back at us and be like, damn, they were out of their fucking minds. They had this insane technology that would allow them to be anywhere on the planet they wanted to be, but they still wanted to gather together in their towers of doom.

And, you know, right. And, and like, so this, this has got to be like, we've got to like, you know, start waking up to that, not just that, but man, what are some of the other ways? What do you think are some other, by the way, do you have time? I feel like this is okay. Can you, what do you think are some of the other like superstitious, sentimental, you know, societal habituations that we're engaged in that are lowering our quality of life out of an allegiance to a way of being that just doesn't have

to be that way anymore? Well, I really think that that, and they all tie together that idea of remote work tied with an ability to live anywhere you want, tied with the fact that you can create modern tribes at this point, that it doesn't have to be a more lonely, a lonelier existence, it can be actually a more, there can be more human connection because the people that you live next to are people you choose to live next to, because you can get a place all next to each other. So you can create in some sense modern villages that yet they are tied to a

wider world through technology, through the fact that you can hop on an airplane and go anywhere you want. And then with that, you have connection with food and nature, so that you can also spend some of your time raising your own food, eating way better stuff than you do from pre-packaged crap you buy at the store. And so now you have better human interactions, better food, better relationship with nature, better time management and places where you live. So, you know, from architecture down to nutrition, it can all be tied

together in a pretty different way of living. I love it, man. You know what? You're inspiring me. I think what we should all do is move to, I don't know, French Guiana is, you know, that place I'm talking about, maybe start a town, we'll call it Bolleli town. Yeah, I think that's a, it has a ring to it. I like it. Yeah, it'd be really cool.

We just all gather together there. We could fly in, fly out whenever we want. Well, I mean, most of us could fly in and fly out whenever we wanted. Some people would need to stay. I love it, but I'm looking forward to a new Netflix show, Duncan Trussell starring in the war against the shit-smelling pheromone vampires. I know I'm tuning in, you know, if that's what you want. We must fight.

Please tune in. I mean, don't just, listen, here's the, listen, again, I feel at this point in my old age, you know, look, I'm a shit-smelling pheromone vampire. You know what I mean? Like I've had meetings that are unnecessary. And, and, but it's just like, you know, so I don't mean to like, you know, we can't villainize anybody in the same way in the beginning, we're talking about like, look, just recognize we've all been infected with superstition to some degree.

There's real things and, and, and in the sense, quantifiable, verifiable things. But then you just got to understand that the odds are pretty good. You've, you've got a little bit of a psychic contagion. If you've become addicted to office life, or if you will imagine that's the best way to do things, that's all. If you're, you, you know, a shit-smelling pheromone huffing CEO vampire, uh, can easily just have a epiphany and realize like, oh my God, like, well, I guarantee they don't necessarily want to be at that office.

It's got to be grueling. You know what I mean? Like it's got to be like insane to know that you're spending most of your time in this office going up and down elevators and having these crazy fucking meetings. When you could be at your like, you know, these people have like plasma pools of stem cells that they soak in and reverse age, you know, they have literal harems. I'm sure they're not necessarily excited about some of them fly helicopters to work. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That's how much they, they, they, they don't want to be in traffic. So I'm sure they would be happy to be at their mansions too. Uh, well, listen, man, I, I, if you, you know, we, you're in Oh, hi. Maybe I'll make the Oh, hi migration. My family, we've all been talking about like the same thing. I think everyone in the big cities is having some form of the conversation, which is like, well, if we can't go, you know, if this stuff is going to stay

closed down, or if it's going to temporarily open up and then shut down again. And we don't know how that, when that's going to happen. And also just, you know, it probably isn't like great for the planet for us to be living here and also why the fuck are we paying so much money for rent? You know, I think everyone's having this conversation. It's just, we got to figure out like, where do we go? Right. What's the place we go to?

Cause that is to me, like all that's left for me in LA, if like standup is done, if like, you know, I can't go out to eat anymore. If everything's shut down and if that's indefinite, or if it's going to open up kind of, and then shut down again is my friends, right? You know? And so, but that is a really, that to me is like worth way more than any of that other bullshit, you know, but that's, that's the hard part is thinking like, damn, I'm going to, you're, you know, you're, you're, you're far away now, man.

Yeah. But at the same time, that's what I like about a place like where I'm at right now is that I am and I'm not. Cause realistically, if I want to hop in a car and come to LA, it takes me about an hour and a half, which is not even that much more than typical LA traffic crap when I'm way closer, but there's so much traffic that it takes almost a long anyway. So I'm like, yeah, I mean, do I want to commute from here to Los Angeles every day?

Hell no. But you're not going to have to. Exactly. But if I don't have to, and I can, I'm still within striking distance that if I have to come in for some reason, I can do it. No problem. It's sort of the perfect, the perfect match for me, where it's not, you know, you are in the middle of nowhere where, yeah, you have to hop on a plane and do

all these crazy things to actually see other, you know, it's close enough that is doable, but far enough that I have a little more breathing room. So come visit me. Come check it out. See if it's to your liking. Well, no, actually, we're coming out there, we're coming out there next weekend. Now, I want to ask you this one last question. Yeah, if suddenly you didn't ever, if you just knew all of a sudden, you're

never going to have to go back to LA, would you still stay in Ohio or would you maybe consider somewhere else? I mean, oh, it's great. It's, I like it right now, but of course, the possibilities are endless, right? So it's like, if it becomes something like that, then one can look around and realize, oh, maybe there are other places or maybe this is perfect. You know, there are a bunch of options at that point is it becomes a fun game to play. Mr. Bilelli, it is such a joy chatting with you.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for enduring my ear beating. I didn't expect to get so angry out of the blue. I apologize. No, that was one of the greatest things I've ever heard. She's smelling peremon vampires. I'm going to be pumped on that for the next few days. I love you, man.

Thank you so much. And, um, I'll see you next weekend and we'll talk. Let me just, how to kush that. Thank you. Thanks for listening, everybody. That was Danielle Bilelli. All the links you need to find him are going to be at DuncanTrestle.com. Huge thank you to Unicorn Riot for giving us some actual coverage of what's

happening in Minneapolis. Highly recommend that you subscribe to their YouTube channel. And most importantly, a big thank you to you for continuing to listen to the DTFH. For subscribing to our Patreon or not, but just allowing a place where I can do the thing I love most, which is to have conversations with folks like Danielle Bilelli. I hope you all are doing great. Until next time.

Hare Krishna. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JC Penney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford and J. Ferrara.

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We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford and J. Ferrara. Oh, and thereabouts for kids. Super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp.com. All dressed up everywhere to go.

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