Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 392: Lon Milo DuQuette

Episode Date: July 25, 2020

Lon Milo DuQuette, writer, musician, and practitioner of ceremonial magic joins the DTFH! Lon has written over 18 books on the occult, is a lecturer, and is a high-ranking member of the OTO. You can check out his livestreams on his Facebook or check out his extensive catalogue over at GoodReads. This episode is brought to you by: DHM Detox - Use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and save 20% on your first order! Feals - Visit feals.com/duncan and get 50% off and FREE shipping on your first order. Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site.

Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Do you ever get that feeling that you're an immortal being in a chrysalis dreaming the universe? If so, then that means you're listening to the Duncan Trussell family hour. I'm not gonna read this. Jason, we gotta talk. What's your problem, man? That's a great intro. No, it's not. It's weird for the sake of weird. It doesn't make any sense. It's just like some kind of psychedelic bullshit. Everybody knows the

whole brain in the jar. Maybe you're a slug in a swamp dreaming that you're human thing. I've done it 70 times at least in the intro. So it's come up with something new, something creative, something inspirational. This is something erode yesterday. I think it will make a greater opening monologue. This better be good. It's good. For more than two centuries, the U.S. Senate has required the support of at least 60 senators before they pass a major piece of legislation. That makes for a cumbersome system. It requires compromise and patience. It delays the passage of laws. But it has endured through the centuries despite the leadership of the body. At times, the Senate has been controlled by Republicans. Other times, it's been controlled by Democrats.

But that standard, the standard of 60 votes, often referred to as the filibuster rule, has never changed. We've had it since 1806 when Thomas Jefferson was the president. Why is that? It's not just because the U.S. senators tend to be pompous and mindlessly wedded to tradition, though obviously they are. It's because this is a democracy. Sober people know that before you make a big change to a country, you better be certain that a large this is a fucking Tucker Carlson monologue. So what? It's good writing. Jason, please stop doing that Swedish accent and tell me what I always tell you about political monologues. You say that pundits and monologists are attempting to lock human consciousness to the

past by wrapping our minds in semantic chains that keep us frozen in time. And that the moment humanity as a whole turns away from charismatic fear mongers will be the moment that our species achieves universal consciousness. And that this global noses is being forestalled by mad addicted money hoarders who are desperately trying to prevent the disintegration of the stultifying reality tunnel we were all born into. I never said that. I said they they they bore they suck is what I said and you're fired Jason. You're fired. You can't fire me because I quit. Fuck you. Go there is another writer no need I who writer need to do job any one do simple do job no need Jason commercial now.

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the hamburger hole feels the last part i made up they don't they don't say to say it goes in your hamburger hole that's me back now we need enough to make sounds and do the voice to make intro happen for podcast show no writer need income jason i forgot my banjo jason look i chance want to give you another yeah i'm so happy to be back it makes me want to dance and sing dance don't sing dance dance and sing dance and sing sing sing and dance boy do we have a great podcast for you today lawn myla duquette the great writer musician and practitioner of ceremonial magic this year with us today we're going to jump right into it but first this a deep thank you to the d t f h

patreon family that keeps my darling boy in silken dipes if you're interested in commercial free episodes of the d t f h if you want if you want to gather with your true family if you want to get together for weekly video gatherings we have a dune book club the second week starts tonight we've got a tuesday meditation and we've got a friday d t f h family gathering we're all waiting for you also there's a fantastic discord server you'll instantly have access to gobs of content and you'll be able to sink your teeth into the inner spinal gel of this podcast so head over to patreon.com forward slash d t f h and subscribe we also have a wonderful shop located at dunkintrussell.com with all kinds of beautiful face masks for you to wear head over to the shop at dunkintrussell.com

now let's get this podcast going the introduction to today's guest was actually made for me by one of my beloved family members during a d t f h family gathering i'm patreon somebody asked you know lawn myla duquette of course i'd heard of him i'm someone who is an armchair occult scholar i like reading crowley i'm not a practicing ceremonial magician but anyone who knows anything about the occult has heard the name lawn myla duquette and within minutes after saying i'd love to talk with him on a podcast i was connected and he was kind enough to appear on the show lawn myla duquette has written over 18 books on various occult topics he's a lecturer and he is a high ranking member of the ot o the order template orientullis which is a i guess you could say

what a projection of alistair crowley's mind into the world he's the real deal i was actually kind of nervous to chat with him and was relieved to find that he's a super sweet awesome mystical person he's got a lot of great content out there check out his many youtube lectures on the tarot and other occult topics you can head over to his facebook page he gives live streams there i think at least every week all the links you need to find that will be at dunkatrustle.com and now everybody please welcome to the dunkatrustle family hour podcast lawn myla duquette welcome lawn welcome to the dunkatrustle family hour podcast thank you so much for being on the show

thank you for asking me on well you know i have known about you for a very long time is anybody who has any mild interest in the occult is aware of your existence and i think maybe anybody who has any interest in the occult is maybe a little nervous when it comes to your existence somehow in the sense that i don't know enough about the about magic in the occult to be anything more than a little trepidatious and as i was researching you i was thrilled to find that you had a similar reaction to the crowley thoth tarot deck that i had when i first encountered it which is my reaction was it's of the devil yeah yeah i mean it's it's so weirdly beautiful that uh uh if you're used to sort of you know the standard sort of uh you know medieval artwork

that you usually associate with tarot and you see these beautiful frida harris uh like modern art cubist kind of paintings uh you're stunned by the beauty of them and at the same time they're so beautiful that they disturb you just like the just like the the listeners the audience to uh paganini the great violinist and uh composer uh he played the violin so weirdly wonderful and better than anybody else that uh the jealous other violinists said well nobody can play like that the devil had to uh had to make him play like that you know like robert johnson yeah he plays so he plays the guitar so good the devil had to and then people sort of kind of believe that but it's it's kind of easy to believe when something is so super

naturally awesome uh for you to uh you know question the source of its mysteriousness and that's how i felt about the thoth tarot for a while because i was still a superstitious young fool but you know this is what i was hoping you could maybe unencumber me from this superstitious quality i you know i love i have libra 4 i i refer to it all the time i can't imagine that i understand much of it i love the cabala i study it i i and also you know suddenly my dreams will change or uh anytime that i have uh when i'm meditating sometimes you know uh i'll have some strange experience that reminds me of something that i maybe have read and crowley or have heard about in occult traditions and almost every single time this happens a defense mechanism

pops up inside of me that makes me feel afraid and i wonder if you could talk a little bit about what that could be i mean outside of whatever my own subjective bullshit is every grimoire i've ever looked at and generally i'll start with this kind of warning at the beginning beware beware and magic in general uh it's so many people i know are fundamentalists uh you generally raised in the christian tradition but often buddhism uh there's a certainly islam there's quite often a general sense that this is the wrong way the left hand path damnation waits ahead for those who decide to start looking into these matters deeply well the we're always more comfortable with uh what we think the faith of our fathers is and um uh and we seldom think that you know as

the world is going completely insane around us we at least try to take comfort in the the the old reality of the faith of our fathers but we we seldom stop to think that it's the faith faith of our fathers that is a really big super reason why the world has gone so hellishly mad rather than the first book look at it this way oh oh mr duke i apologize is your phone off the hook i hear something yes it is i just took it off the hook for a second it'll only it'll go away okay thank you i just didn't want it to uh i appreciate that thank you people are always trying to sell me roofing i'm i get carnival cruise line offers but but uh most of us if we were truthful with ourselves will admit that uh that we're pretty screwed up

we're not we're not firing on all cylinders we're not uh uh viewing our existence clearly and so the all of our self identity is pretty much uh invested in a very unreal and unrealistic and inaccurate uh view of ourselves i i think almost anybody will admit that yes and uh any kind of uh you know tried and true uh mystical meditations uh whether whether there'd be uh uh yogic meditations uh breath exercises anything that tends to to rebalance yourself or to to bring a certain amount of harmony and uh readjustment uh to ourselves our old self identity with the well the the screwed up Duncan doesn't want to be an unscrewed up Duncan that's right the unscrewed up Duncan is afraid of losing its identity

yes and and so it kicks up all sorts of reactions to getting its shit together okay this i don't want my shit to get together otherwise i won't be uh uh i won't be the Duncan i always thought i was right and so that that kicks back at you in dreams like uh like uh whatever these new forces of of harmony and balance uh is making me dizzy is making the old Duncan dizzy is making the old Duncan afraid that uh you're losing the old Duncan and so uh you person sonify the those fears as uh uh demonic attacks on yourself when actually what they are are very wholesome attacks on on the old screwed up Duncan wholesome attacks i love it yeah well i that's you know i i i've sort of groked that uh and and you know i i

i've had a sense when working with magic and you know many of my friends practice ceremonial magic some friends who've been on the podcast um have spent their their lives absorbed in it and sometimes they like well seem now i don't want to say frustrated but curious about why i don't do more than read uh with it and it's just you know because i feel like there's so many possibilities within it to truly lose yourself but not like lose the sort of neurotic self but literally blow your blow yourself out of the water so to speak that you know and there's so many stories of people who have you know decided to start working with these energies and have gone and had manic episodes or right you know sort of lost their

orientation lost their center and and one of the things i love about the books i love about croly i love about the stories is that they don't pretend that isn't a possibility you know whereas like and you know other religions at least when they start telling you about it they don't mention some of the other stuff there's a sense of like well you're going to get some tranquility here but at least with magic up front they're like you could lose your mind you know that i've always respected that about it well as a as a spiritual art form uh magic is is not really helpful to those who are currently prone to run away from themselves the the whole idea of magic is to is to run into yourself discover yourself and it is the worst of

all possible spiritual art forms uh to uh uh to to to use to run away from yourself and so because it amplifies you know existing pathologies uh it's if if you're a little screwed up to begin with yeah uh and and and you're not grasping the big picture of what magic is it will amplify your screwed upness uh in a usually a very loud boisterous and and embarrassing way okay i love that that now that makes sense to me it's same with psychedelics you know it's if you're you know if set in setting i suppose it would apply to magic too if you're if you're in a place where you're not really wanting to look at stuff is do you think this is the reason that compared to some of the other mystical traditions out there

magic has a kind of secrecy attached to it is is it because having recognized its potency practitioners want to as much as possible keep people from working with it until they're ready well it's uh it's it's wise not to work with it until you're ready and and uh uh it sort of has its own self uh regulating mechanisms in it magic has its own governor um like a machines governor um and uh if a lot of people are attracted to it because they think it's what it's not and those that are attracted to it because they perceive or sense what it is uh become very good magicians uh and those that perceive that that that it's something else uh like a like a power

a power trip yes my god then magic has a has a has a sense of or has a habit of blowing up in their face and that can be very uh uh a very colorful thing because magic is a colorful uh and dramatic art form yes uh but uh the idea of uh of a magician that's actually making it work is probably the kind of magician that you you see and hear about the least because they're not blowing up in front of you right that is beautiful that makes sense too wow if you're living on planet earth right now or even if you're living within the hollow interior of the planet and one of the ancient beautiful cities down there then you're aware that Squarespace

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it would make the angels weep much like Duncan Trussell dot com then Squarespace will take you as deep as you want to go baby get in there head over to Squarespace dot com forward slash Duncan give it a try when you're ready to launch use offer code Duncan and you're going to get 10 percent off your first order of a domain or a website again that's Squarespace dot com forward slash Duncan use offer code Duncan to get 10 percent off your first order of a website or a domain thank you Squarespace you know that they're the I I I've meditated I practice a Vajra on a Buddhism I've got a meditation teacher anytime I start chatting with him about you know experiences during the practice he always just brings me back to the sort of earthy kind of like

well you know things do happen when you're meditating but uh this is not about going after like cities as you know because it's an eastern tradition if you start getting too caught up and getting all the you know whatever it is the extra bells and whistles then you could you sort of miss the point is that true for magic as well is there any difference oh absolutely you know a lot of times in the east they say certain practices bring you certain magical powers yes uh but what they what they don't and that's true but what they don't tell you is by the time you get those magical powers they're a pain in the ass and not not anything that you that you want to flock okay right uh the magical powers aren't really

magical powers they're just that's how people normally should normally should be when uh uh they uh become more themselves uh we are naturally empathetic we're naturally telepathic we're naturally uh we naturally can more or less read each other's minds but the screwed up Duncan and Lawn don't okay so it's and and to think that that you're practicing pranayama for 14 years uh in order to get uh the magical ability to read somebody's mind uh you're you're really hitching your wagon to the to uh a false star when you should be hitching that wagon to yourself wow that is to me but what a paradox i mean you can't blame us for wanting like who what kid hasn't wanted to fly or if you hear about this potential for astral projection

or lucid dreaming of course you're gonna want to do that or you know just like how many times have you thought god i wish i was telekinetic not for some grand reason but just to like get the remote control to levitate the remote control off the floor to your hand you know of course we would want these cities so it seems somewhat paradoxical that croly croly tells the the story or he gives the example that uh let's let's say a person is serious about learning magic and at first he's serious about learning magic because he wants to kill an enemy at a distance yes um first of all any spirit that that uh would be capable of uh doing something like that and a spirit some metaphor for your own powers of course uh would immediately think boy

what a chicken shit magician this is why doesn't he just go knock on the door and punch the guy in the nose right um but he says it well you know if you if that's your reason to to learn magic that's okay because in order for you to get and understand the power to do something like that you would have to understand the entire heart hierarchy of spiritual forces in the universe and you would have to know which spirit is in charge of which other spirit which is in charge of which other spirits which is controlled by which angel and which angel is controlled by which archangel and which archangel is connected and and under the rulership of which facet of godhead itself in order for you to do that and then you have to be able to actually properly

invoke that facet of godhead in yourself so you could trigger that entire hierarchy of spiritual forces by the time you do that it's going to be the last thing on your mind kill that asshole down the street right it's like you're that it's it's it reminds me of growing up or something or there seems to be some mirror of just the way children grow into adults and what you're talking about but this is the other to me the real exciting thing about magic as I you know foggily don't understand it or my just you know conjecture is there is this sense that there's a way to keep growing up there you don't that the thing we most people consider to be adulthood is really not much better than a toddler and that this thing that you're talking about

this possibility of beginning to at the very least see these connections seems to be a continuation of some kind of evolutionary process it seems like the difference being in this case this is some something someone does by choice you know which is odd to me like you know I guess you could say my my baby my child has learned it will learn to walk by choice but it seems more of a kind of like instinctual process that's unfolding but this seems to be you can decide if you want to to see this landscape you're describing is that true is it by choice or are we all just sort of being sort of inhaled into the godhead whether we like it or not and the more that we get nailed the more we pretend we're doing it on purpose well the from our present position we're doing

we're doing it on purpose and this is something that that we make a conscious voluntary decision to do the Crowley and the the philemic doctrine of magic sort of sees the last 10 000 years of more in human evolution it breaks it up into three three categories there was there was a time when we were we were so focused on just putting food in our bellies that we we sensed that our spiritual identity tied up with with the earth god was sort of personified by the by the mother yeah you know who seemed you know if we don't have a nine month attention span at that point

she seems to just bring forth you know other people just right out of her body just like the earth brings plants and animals right out of the out of the earth right so we're so we're all hung up on on the earth and and the mother and indirectly the moon because of the nine month cycle of you know all of that yes um but uh you know all the all of our magical identity was was hung up with that it was a woman was awesome she's still awesome but uh she was like the awesome singularity that we're if we're just not plugged into that that teat directly um we're nothing right and then uh we didn't pay much attention to the sun or the cycles or things like that um but then it got to the point of where where human consciousness

started to wake up just a little bit and we started to say hey these animals don't uh don't come these plants don't grow unless the the sun is uh is on all right for greater hours of the day and i think that sun has something to do with that and that uh that realization that awakening and human consciousness came about the same time as we uh developed a nine month attention span and realized that the woman wasn't going to bring forth uh another uh human duplicate uh without uh the intervention of of the male so the and the the the man and the male god started to uh uh say well the male gods just as important as the female because they need each other uh and and so the the idea that uh uh we woke up to the fact that uh well it's a partnership between

the sun and the uh sun of the and the earth and uh but then we that projected the superstition on us and a fear on us because shit the sun goes down every day i mean it's gone yeah we have no idea whether that's going to come up and uh so we started that we started just to freak out and everything became a uh death cult and uh this this duality thing entered in i mean it was a step forward but it was still not very accurate point of view of the universe oh i'm sorry i'm gonna stop you there because you blew my mind this is crazy you're saying that there was a peer of course obviously i never thought of this there's a period in human history where when the sun went down that might be the last time you see that thing yeah be in eternal darkness forever i've got to

invent a a priestcraft to uh promise that it's going to come up in the morning and wow okay and so all of our gods die and come back to life see wow that's the osirian thing and that's the christian formula got it and um uh but now uh it's been long enough that the majority of the population of the earth and our in our collective consciousness together now knows that that the sun pretty much stays on all the time right and uh it's the earth that's going around no big deal it's sun's you know sun doesn't come up it's on all the time yes so deep down inside where we've come to the conclusion whether we admit it to ourselves or not that we stay on all the time and that if we're conscious now we've always been conscious we'll always be conscious conscious now immortality

isn't something that we have to to you know bribe some some spiritual force to achieve we have immortality we're on we'll always be on night is an illusion death is an illusion that is so cool but how incredibly on for a lot of people that what you just said is blasphemy from the from the perspective of the atheist but not just from the perspective of the atheist you know it's what you're suggesting it sounds like is you know there's really nothing to worry about well there's never anything to worry about ultimately but the the only reason I took us on that little trip was the the the formula of the goddess you know two two awakenings ago was one of just nourishment and the the formula of the osirian formula the last one where we thought

the sun went down was a formula of life and death okay but the new formula the new awakening where we know the sun stays on all the time is simply one of simple growth it's the god of growth and so crowley you know labeled them you know isis then osiris and now their son their baby horus and so the formula that works for us now is simply the simple wholesome formula of the growth of consciousness and we're no longer stuck with this this life death duality formula of the previous incarnation or the previous aeon or age now it is our natural tendency to view everything all of our spiritual formula all of our self-identity with the fact that hey we grow we don't even have to micromanage the the conditions of our growth just like a kid

you know he all of a sudden he needs new shoes yeah he needs new clothes to go to school the next year it's just growth he doesn't even feel about it's totally natural it's an unfolding of a flower but it's now an unfolding of consciousness and whether we we admit it to ourselves or not we are in the process of unfolding that that flower and so we could look at all of the the problems that we're having with this this unfolding in the same way as we would view the different stages of a flower unfolding as if the flowers said and no i don't want to be a bud anymore oh my budness is dying you know and not realizing that their identity is now unfolding the chrysalis is becoming a new kind of butterfly thing and but because you just can't stop the

growth we're in a position of being drug kicking and screaming into our own awakening and and that has its uh uh growing pains uh involved in it and that's sort of the the wild chaoticness that that we're experiencing right now as the shift of consciousness is starting to take hold wow gosh that is so cool that is so curious to me that we don't want to grow that i get i kind of i get it i guess i mean i guess i remember there was a time when i was like gonna graduate high school and i felt weirdly sentimental about high high school and had this really embarrassing fantasy that like you know what maybe i'll just become a teacher here yeah you know is that what we're talking about that's exactly what we're talking about wow

that is so cool wow we just want to stay in high school we don't we don't want to go to college it was he it's he and i but most but most of us will agree we don't want to stay in junior high and you're damn right we don't we've we've all awakened to that that revelation got it so so so magic is it so is magic a thing that expedites the unfolding or just helps it be less painful or both or is there a way to speed this growth up or is that what magic is well there's there's a just like in our physical bodies there's there's a way there are ways to to better nourish the vehicle that is is growing

just like you know vitamin supplements and mineral supplements and eating the right food and and stuff there's there's a way that you could make your body unfold in a more natural wholesome and and efficient manner but magic is is not the hasn't cornered the market on on techniques to help people grow and not everybody resonates to the art form of of magic just like everyone doesn't resonate to the art form of monastic life or or not everyone resonates to yogic practices or tantric practices or some people resonate to to music magic is an art it's it's a science all right in the same way as as music is a science but first and foremost it's an art so every magician is

an artist not only that every artist is a magician wow and the uh uh no two artists are alike and they shouldn't be and uh in my little talk this morning on my uh my reading my facebook reading this morning i was reading from a book of mine um you know Picasso and Monet uh you know they could argue with each other on the virtues or the the the qualities of uh oil paints versus uh watercolors or pastels right uh but they couldn't argue with each other and they needn't and they shouldn't uh they couldn't argue with each other over the nature of truth and uh uh and every artist has that has their own truth duties to express and every magician has has the the same thing

um so the as far as motive goes as we said earlier the the probably the most unworthy modi for magic is is to try to run away from yourself in your in your art um right it's like not listening to your inspiration when you're creating something it would be a kind of like having some epiphanous idea of a thing you wanted to make and then not making it because you're afraid or something sad like that right you turn yourself into a prosperous goose wow you know but okay so let's i think i can get a little bit more of a grasp on it by talking about art in particular you know with whatever the particular art form is there's obviously some structure to it you know music there's clearly a structure you know there's a there's scales

there's frequencies there's practice involved and but also mixed in with it is absolute freedom in the sense of what it is you're going to use the tools to create with magic sometimes i wonder about what isn't magic what you know what in other words how much of magic is just listening to your own intuition and sort of allowing that intuition to flow into the world in your own made-up ceremonies or rituals or prayers uh is that just hogwash is is is there is that just you fooling yourself into imagining that you're doing magic when in fact there is like sort of a right way to do it uh you know all the books on magic and you get your golden dawn books and you you get your keys of

Solomon and stuff all magic books and including the wonderful wonderful books and commentaries and rituals of Alistair Crowley serve only as examples of another magician's work wow and uh uh you know it's so easy to think that okay if i do this ritual just like Alistair Crowley or just like uh uh abramelon the mage or just like Abraham the Jew then just like a recipe book if i do it just like this i'll get this you know i'll get a cake yes okay uh no uh the the best thing you can get out of out of that material and i'm not saying don't memorize the rituals and walk through them and and uh and do them but they're only just to show you how one magician historically utilized these these elements

these forces these words these sounds these tools uh in order to get in touch with their inner words their inner tools their their inner uh uh vibrations and and the only reason that you would even practice these things is to get get uh uh in sync with what one person did in the same way that it really would be helpful if you were going to learn to say uh learn to play the piano it's very helpful for you to learn uh the skills necessary for you to uh uh learn that that Beethoven piece right it's not okay uh but it's Beethoven's art right it's Beethoven's magic but you learn that Beethoven's magic and in a sense uh allow yourself to to uh be possessed by that for the sake of performance but what it's really done was readjusted a billion things inside you gives you

a billion skills has exercised and built up the muscles and the nerves and the the framework of how music flows so you can do your magic your way on your sheet of paper with your group of musicians that that you put together okay so the uh in order for you to be anything but uh uh a temporary vessel for Beethoven you've got to be your own Beethoven using all the skills and all the understanding that you learned when you mastered the Beethoven got it i got it got it that makes such sense to me you know because it's like whenever i've been you know i've i'm not a magician or musician either really but the uh you know i love practicing scales and i did start noticing the more i practice the scales the more other aspects of music just

seemed to come more naturally and that but i bet your dreams have even changed yes that's what i was about i was literally about to say i would dream about playing in the dreams i would be practicing music the dreams would be carrying on whatever this thing was and that's when i started thinking whoa music is actually way more than i initially thought it was this stuff is that i did start thinking oh this is magic like it's some kind of magical system that is disguised as music there's no way this isn't magic you look at sheet music for example the grand staff and all that stuff it's clearly this is magic that people call music and i wonder if you could talk a little bit about that because not only are you a great practicing magician you're also a great musician well i don't

know about that but i'm a but i'm a musician okay a musician fine you know but still you know a lot of a lot of great songs on your youtube and um on your wikipedia on the wiki when i was reading about you what was the name of your original band are they're one of your albums something charlie and milo see this is what i was the so cool my name is charles duncan so i thought what a cool synchronicity whoa yeah my my my uh dad used to call me charlie d whoa i know well that's that's that is very interesting and back in the back in the day charlie and i got together when i first moved back to california and i guess i was still i was still 17 i guess when we when we met and of course we were taking psychedelics and

um uh uh were uh uh totally uh into writing writing songs and and music uh from a from a spiritual awakening point of view a psychedelic spiritual awakening uh point of view so we we fancied ourselves uh uh that our music was was not only uh you know popular in style but uh but uh the message was was always uh one of a mystical awakening kind of things we we really loved uh uh we were inspired by the beetles and and uh you know donovan and cat stevens and and uh so the you know we purposefully uh uh tried to make our music uh an expression of our pitiful teenage late teenage uh uh a grasp of spiritual awakening and uh of course we were just totally lightweight you know uh but the idea a lot of our songs is as a matter of fact our first uh

uh song book of songs that we uh uh eventually you know got publishers interested in uh uh we got ideas for every one of the the songs by just smoking a bunch of hash and opening an uppercall dictionary at at random and writing a song about the first thing our our fingers felt cool yeah that's cool but uh the the idea that uh uh uh the the technique of fine fine music in a mathematical uh sense really was the furthest furthest thing uh from our mind we just wanted to know well do you think we can uh get this recorded and we were lucky enough to play live in enough places to you know get a general audience response but the audience too was going through that that pivotal time in

the awakening that psychedelic uh a mid and late 60s uh was truly a an a crack in time uh an aberration there was a quantum leap in human consciousness and it was happening everywhere even people that weren't aware of it were just thinking differently right and uh so the uh i've i gave music a rest after our second uh after our album and second single um i gave it a rest for 25 years uh because uh not because we weren't successful at it it's because we uh we were and uh uh the lifestyle of uh you know hollywood era uh uh recording artists and and uh working band in uh late 60s early 70s was was really a wild uh it was not good for my health right sure i got you yeah i i get it i know what you mean it's

it's brutal i as a touring comedian you know it's over time it's crazy what it can do to you uh just to be constantly traveling around and performing and always you've become a night owl and i get it uh why you would stop and so the but what didn't stop was my interest in in spiritual things so uh and and because i had been a working musician since i was 14 uh i mean uh truly a working musician at 14 um and i helped support my family till i moved away at 17 and and uh you know i had i had done nothing else with with my life in the in the real world and so i was totally unprepared for objective reality and you know i had no job skills or anything else i you know music had gotten me by until that point but i still was still reading

that occult dictionary i was still reading that doubted jing i was still doing that yoga i was still i was still uh uh interested in that stuff and uh so uh for 25 years i just kept getting more and more interested in uh uh spiritual and occult things and when i finally realized i was never going to be a first rate eastern mystic yeah because i'm just too damn lazy it's hard to be an eastern mystic yeah it is yeah and and so i was i said well i'm too lazy for this i gotta see if there's a western uh equivalent to this that that's sort of uh panders to my uh my western uh master uh exo exoteric mind and that's when i ran into the cabala and cabala to tarot and uh uh you know uh tarot and cabala to crowley and and i just happened to be just insanely lucky to

uh uh meet phyllis seckler and grady mcmerry uh two students of of crowley the older students of crowley they introduced me to israel regarding wow long uh and and so all these living superstars of the western magical tradition uh just i just sort of fell in uh with their their company and their influence and uh if it wasn't for them i probably would have been uh remained freaked out about crowley for another 10 years sure but it was really comforting to to have somebody actually say oh dear god boy no he didn't eat babies you know or you know uh it explained to me all the things that that i that most people superstitiously uh freak out when they hear stories about crowley in in 15 words they just totally explained that away and that made me feel stupid for

being such a chicken shit uh oh gosh that's so i but you're not a chicken shit i mean look at his poetry look at white stains look at some of those poems they're beyond blasphemous you know i was sitting i love crowley i don't even know why i love crowley i always will love i don't know why i don't get it i i don't understand it very much but anytime i sit down and read any of his essays i feel so good and it makes me feel so happy and there's something really funny about him that isn't that like i recognize in him some kind of comedian or something and i really like it a lot and you know even my wife i was reading one of these poems from white stains i'm like listen to this i all this time i've been yapping about how great he is and here's something

that's something like uh something about pedorasty or something you know and and i'm like listen to this how embarrassing look why would you write this poem and even she was like don't be a chicken shit she didn't say that but she was like that's not he doesn't literally mean it Duncan and i felt so dumb too jazz my wife she's not into this she doesn't do this but she just naturally like you're gonna take it literally yeah but don't you think it is justified that people feel at the very least mixed emotions about him because he was intentionally putting that stuff out there on the bloody sacrifice you know and and do you feel like there is a little bit of responsibility for a person you know crowley puts out there i you know whatever the thing he said when he was

i think alluding to masturbation uh but you know someone who hears that and is confused they might think it's okay to i'll kill babies for power because crowley did you know what i mean isn't isn't there some ethical responsibility to not send out these signals that could be so easily misinterpreted perhaps you're perhaps you're absolutely right and remember crowley's a genius and geniuses don't always understand where non-geniuses are coming from right and uh but from uh generally speaking he thought it was an easy way to freak out the freakoutable because the freakoutable aren't really ready for the art of magic so it's a force field yeah and uh and uh and it served it served that purpose and i don't even think he thought too much about

it i think he thought if you were too stupid not to see through this you're too real you're really too stupid and superstitious at the moment to actually grasp the big picture of what magic magic is and i just sooner not screw with you i love that you say right you keep saying right now i think that's such a compassionate way to put it and i appreciate that you keep saying that because i think you you're you're recognizing some people just go through phases and what some sometimes the phase the phase you're in maybe it's more like you need to you need to learn about like how to sit how to save money in your bank account you know like you need to learn basic earth stuff um i you know i uh when i found out more about krully i i bought that thoth tarot deck

when i was still sort of an naive young superstitious uh uh bo ta tarot person and i got that thoth tarot deck and i'd only just read krully's name here and there and i didn't think much about it and that that tarot deck sort of scared me because it was so incredibly beautiful that i thought maybe the devil had to make it uh and then i find out in a knuckle dictionary that krully was some kind of a satanist and i freaked out i i gave the cards away i uh uh and it really took a friend of mine uh an older friend of mine uh who had read krully's biography to to say why did you give that those cards away i said well it says he was a satanist and he said wasn't he a satanist and he said no no he wasn't a satanist well yes he was uh

but no no no no if he's a satanist he's a good kind of satanist and you'll really love this guy because everything you think you want to learn about this subject about the tarot and the cabala and the magic and all of this stuff you're going to have to uh come face to face with everything this guy wrote because he wrote because he knew more about it than any other person in the 20th century wow and uh again i was lucky i was lucky to have a good friend who was who was uh uh frank enough and was honest enough with me to say you're being a freaking idiot right wake up kid and uh uh and not everyone has that and i think krully uh during his lifetime uh never fully grasped that everybody uh didn't have a friend like that

no does slap him in the face and say listen to okay if you can't get over this you know you're never going to be able to get over that demon you just conjured your bedroom wow right but you know again who i'm just speaking from an outsider's outsider's perspective here as a superstitious person sometimes who does love krully but one thing that's very frustrating to me these days especially is because of the some of the stuff that is you know intentional distortions or force fields that's out there you have entire swarms of superstitious people like like at the level of like you know pitchforks and torches who are who see anything that doesn't fit in with their you know judeo christian symbol set and they say oh no no no if you're in the magic number one you are

a satanist they don't even understand there might be some difference between those two things and number two if you're involved in any of this stuff then you like to hurt kids and you know what i mean like that to me seems like a kind of dangerous reality that's becoming more and more apparent as people continue to be confused and it really i find it to be quite disturbing only because anyone i've ever met satanists practicing magicians i could they would never hurt a kid no and and so to me there is a there's there's a bigger problem which is we don't want to go back to the witch burnings you know we don't want to go back and sometimes these days it feels like we're just a blackout away from the wood being stacked up again you know

well i i think we've uh there's never been a time when we weren't just a blackout away and the the best we can do is is try to get along with our with our neighbors no matter what they what they they may think you know for about nine years i had a i accidentally fell into a pretty good job Constance just loved it that we had such a such a steady paycheck and everything yeah um and i i didn't mind it because it gave me time uh i could do what i was paid to do and and the rest of the time i could write books i wrote five books nine nine years right at work um that's awesome but uh the thing was most uh no i'd say everybody around me uh would definitely not understand anything of where i was coming from or what i was doing but we did have so much else

in common uh we could talk about waka moly uh we could we could talk about our favorite movies and stuff and if they were christians or or uh or jews um uh i could talk about uh you know well i was raised a Methodist myself and right you know and uh we all had tastes in music we had shared tastes in uh uh 99 percent of our lives we had in common and for the first five years that's all we talked about and because i could talk about the same things that interest them without feeling the need to rub my spirituality in their nose yes and and it got so that i could say anything and they would say well that doesn't freak me out because lawn said it and if lawn said it must be normal because because lawn thinks just like me you know right and and this do you

uh do you the question i'll have to ask we're almost at two o'clock may do you have a little bit more time uh yes but not too much more okay then this is my final question for you and thank you so much for the time you've given me what you just said to me seems to validate something i've been very hopeful about which is that they're what you this impulse this intelligent people have to not just not like disturb others it implies an organ organized group of people out there who've collectively come to this conclusion and i know that you uh you know maybe you could talk just a little bit about the otio freemasons and the reason we might need to have lodges or places where people could have different sorts of conversations that aren't about guacamole

and help dispel some of the superstition out there regarding these particular ways that human beings organize and get together well the yeah who knows if if uh they'll ever be at time in the next few years even when we're going to be able to get together in the same way that we did just uh just last year right uh but uh say the freemasons because the freemasons are uh just a beautiful beautiful example of a of a group that uh is very successful it's the largest fraternal organization in the world uh it has mystic ceremonies uh and the mystic ceremonies in and of themselves from a magician's point of view are insanely wonderfully magical and can be a wonderful self transformational uh uh experience but it doesn't rub the members

nose in the fact that that's might that might be uh what the experience is as a matter of fact they don't they go out of their way not to interpret that experience to the membership and they oblige the members to be tolerant of one another and because we're all bound by the by the same arbitrary you know uh oaths of fellowship and things and that we take our oaths on our own particular holy books you know um and if you want to be an esoteric mason you can go all the as deep as you want in your own private studies and practices and and uh sort of collateral masonic uh uh under the radar gatherings and such and if you don't you don't it's a huge huge tent it's a huge non-religious spiritual tent and it doesn't matter that most of the the old farts would just completely freak

out if they knew what you really thought but it doesn't matter because you don't care what they think either wow interesting wow this this hour went by in a second i feel really fortunate that i got to connect with you in this way i know lots of people listening are going to want to hear more from you can you tell people how they could find you at the at the moment uh uh my facebook page just my facebook friend page is the about as close as i get to a you know a daily blog kind of thing but if uh all my books and my music uh are on amazon if just google my name lawnmallowduket and uh i have a for my music i've got a reverb nation uh page but i'm on spotify and cd baby and and amazon too so if you i'm just everywhere if you just type my name in you'll you'll

find interesting things hopefully yes you will trust i you are a rabbit hole sir i spend a lot of time going you're an amazing person and thank you thank you so much for this uh all the links you need to find mr dukat will be at dougie trussell dot com lawn thank you so much i really appreciate it thank you a tremendous thank you to lawnmallow duket for appearing on this episode of the d t f h all the links you need to find him will be at dougie trussell dot com and a big thank you to squarespace to fields to dhm detox for sponsoring this podcast and most importantly thank you for listening i will see you next week until then harry christina a good time starts with a great wardrobe next stop jc penny family get-togethers to fancy occasions

wedding season two we do it all in style dresses suiting and plenty of color to play with get fixed up with brands like lis clayborn worthington stafford and jay furar oh and thereabouts for kids super cute man extra affordable check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp dot com all dressed up everywhere to go jc penny a good time starts with a great wardrobe next stop jc penny family get-togethers to fancy occasions wedding season two we do it all in style dresses suiting and plenty of color to play with get fixed up with brands like lis clayborn worthington stafford and jay furar oh and thereabouts for kids super cute man extra affordable check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp dot com

all dressed up everywhere to go jc penny