Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 396: Russell Brand

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

Russell Brand, a brilliant astral phoenix of a man who needs no introduction, joins the DTFH! This episode is brought to you by: BLUECHEW - Use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and get your first shipment FREE with just $5 shipping. Feals - Visit feals.com/duncan and get 50% off and FREE shipping on your first order. Shudder - Use promo code DUNCAN for a FREE 30 Day Trial.

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Tickle, tickle, tickle. Oh, we got a lot to talk about today. I turn on the cabalier. AOC, social leftist. Anti-fun gender. Man, what boy shot the sick? Kick to the face, kick 10 subconscious backwards. Security patrol left flicks.

And then, on a cute transgender, athletic walk bag workout. Ain't no bad fare. Witchcraft on the rise. Lord, not to call it. Call it on. Leftist gender, now I can't afford my bills. You have a bill.

I can't afford my bills. You can't afford your bills. Who's that man with, you know, Vietnam Everett and what you're now sitting in the bill? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole life matter. I can't afford my bills. My wife can't afford bills. Hey, what?

She's got such a lot of matters in the bill, the bill, the book, and the statue. And everything changed, and now they're We will dissuade you, we will overpower you. You're welcome. Wee! Wee! Now this.

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Calling myself support, speaking the day, if I can help you. Look, man, I'm trying to figure out a way to get out of my stupid intro I did for my podcast. Do you have any suggestions? Suggestions for what? Well, like I did a song, and instead of being myself, I did all this sketches in the beginning of the podcast, and now I can't figure out a way to transition from the sketches into just being my normal self again. Like I did a bunch of characters.

Is this a podcast at a plane? Yeah. Do you think you can... Even though it is... If you're done by us, you should check the number before you die. Okay? Wait, I'm sorry to waste your time, but just because we're on the line, could you give me some suggestion on how to get out of this dumb intro that I did?

No, fuck you, son of a bitch. Fuck off. Thank you! Greetings, sweet friends. It is ID Trussell, and you are listening to the Duck and Trussell Family, our podcast. Welcome. We've got a spectacular episode of the podcast for you today. The brilliant Russell Brand is here with us.

I'm going to jump right into it, but first, this. This episode of the DTFH has been supported by the Boner Alchemist over at bluechew.com. Friends, bluechew, it has the same active ingredients as Viagra and Cialis. You can choose which one you want. It's prescribed by online physicians, and it's mailed right to your door. No longer do you have to wait in line at the pharmacy. No more being embarrassed by pharmacy bullies who see what kind of pills you're buying. Oh, no, it gets delivered right to your house.

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Again, that's bluechew.com and use our promo code Duncan. Thank you, bluechew. And we're back and now it's time for a family update. We're moving, the baby's having separation anxiety. Hey, listen, here's the thing. There's a lot of people out there are going to tell you that the best way to find happiness is to lose some weight, get in shape, get some biceps, some triceps, some abdominal muscles.

And then there's a whole other camp of people that will tell you that the best way to find happiness is to achieve some transient success in the material world. They'll tell you that the number in your bank account is an indication of whether or not you're a good person. Then there's some people who will tell you that the best way to gain happiness is to worship them, to join their commune and go on the top of a pyramid and suck their dicks or lick their assholes. And then there's a whole group of people that'll tell you that actually the way to happiness

is to go into therapy. The problem is you're a tangled knot of trauma that needs to be gradually uncoiled. And then there's people that'll tell you the way to happiness is through cheesecake, scooping up big bowls of cheesecake and bread. Some people will tell you that the best way to gain happiness is through the ingestion of some kind of drug. Maybe smoke some DMT or drink some ayahuasca, eat some mushrooms, and that's how you're going to get happy.

And then some people will tell you that the way to happiness is through years of meditation. The truth of the matter is there's no way to happiness, friends, except understanding that you already are happy. What are you going to base your entire activity in a very transient, temporary plane of existence? We call human life on the way the animal part of yourself feels on that knotted, bundled bunch of disparate emotions. Sometimes you want to fuck. Sometimes you want to sleep.

Sometimes you want to kill yourself. Sometimes you want to kill other people. Sometimes you want to be the president. Sometimes you want to run a BDSM dungeon in New Jersey and fist strangers for Bitcoin. You're going to stake your claim on any of these very transient shifting emotions. Are you really going to try to build some kind of castle in the melting ice sheets of your interior self? No, the answer is unfortunately as simple as simple can be.

You just got to love every single particle of what you are as it is right now. All of it. You got asymmetrical love handles. You're going to love them. You're not happy with your belly button. Maybe you got an Audi when you wanted an any or an any when you wanted an Audi. Maybe you have a micro penis or you're like me and your penis is too big. Your lovers feel too much pain when you make love to them, whatever it may be.

All you can do is love it. That's all you can do. Let's face it, we've all been forced off the diving board of our incarnation, plunging towards some abyss on the other side of that vast and penetrable singularity. There could be paradise. There could be nothingness or they could there could be hell. But the fact that mid flight, you've become deeply concerned with whether or not you could do a perfect swan dive into the great void is a waste of processor power.

You know, I get the feeling that human incarnation might actually be a belly flop contest, not some professional diving competition. And do you know how absolutely egregious and embarrassing it would be if a professional diver from the Olympics got into a belly flop contest and then in the midst of the contest did some ridiculous dive? How insecure would you have to be in the middle of a belly flop contest to do your stupid Olympic diving? No one cares.

Oh, really? Wow. You did the thing during this little transient meat journey from one abyss to the next. So you got a couple of mansions or bought Bitcoin at the right time. Who cares? Nobody does. And the people who do care, they're crazy. So if you're belly flopping, sweet babies, just belly flop, make it a great show.

And to quote Khalil Gabron, if you're in a belly flop contest, don't fucking dive. We got a great show for you. Russell Brand is here with us. We're going to jump right into it, but first, some quick business. A tremendous thank you to feels for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH feels it's a better way to feel better. Their premium CBD will keep you clear and help you feel your best CBD has been proven to greatly reduce anxiety, pain and sleeplessness.

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I want to invite you to subscribe to the DTFH on Patreon. It's patreon.com slash DTFH. You'll get commercial free episodes of this podcast. If you subscribe to the video tiers, you're going to have access to a weekly meditation group, a weekly book club and a Friday family gathering where we just hang out. And yeah, not only that, but you're going to get access to a discord server and you're going to find a community unlike any other of such powerful geniuses, sages, healers, gurus, mathematicians, professors, doctors, sleuths, private detectives, police officers,

and definite members of the Illuminati who will all welcome and embrace you for joining us, your family. Subscribe at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. Also, we have a lovely shop which is located at dunkitrustle.com, beautiful face masks, shirts, and everything you need to adorn your body in the sweet garments of the eternal DTFH. And now everybody, please welcome to the Dunkitrustle family, our podcast, one of the most brilliant people I've ever had the pleasure of having a conversation with, he needs no introduction. Spread those glorious astral phoenix wings out and send your radiant light

plunging towards the UK so that at least for a moment our guests can feel the embrace of our family. Now welcome for the first time to the DTFH, the great Russell Brand. Russell, welcome to the DTFH. I'm so happy to see you again. And thank you for, and you know, I don't want to see manic here, but how after you get to talk to Russell Brand, so we got to move quick because I got some big questions for you. Do you think humans have a soul? I think humans are primarily a soul and that our physical form is a kind of superficial

fluctuation emanating from that soul. So yeah, I think we have a common soul, I think we have an individual soul, and Duncan by God, I think we have an our soul. Not me, my friend, I meditated my ass all the way. Now, that's the part that I always get mixed up on. Ram Dass was big on the soul, and he would look out at the retreat and he would say, I see you all as a soul, that's what I see. And the Hare Krishna is also very much, and any theistic religion has some component of the soul is the sort of mechanism that carries whatever the particular data of your identity onto the next incarnation. But where I always get mixed up is that sort of place where there's the universal soul

and the individual soul, because somewhere in there I get really confused. Is the individual soul some kind of like quantum packet that has like a membrane that separates it from the universal soul? How does that work? It's very difficult to physicalize and materialize these abstract and metaphysical ideas, isn't it, Duncan? I was thinking the other day when I spoke to John Hagelin, the quantum physicist and transcendental meditation, spokesperson, that when he spoke about potentialities, like the way that we have to understand an electron is it's here, it's there, it's both, it's neither, that there are these potentialities that may be realized or unrealized. I was talking to a shaman just now, and they were talking about the

sort of rediscovering the wild self. And while she was speaking, I was thinking about the idea that either within you, within I, there are so many unexpressed, unrealized potentialities, people that we might have become, people that we might be, that we haven't had the cultural experiences, we don't have the biography, we haven't had the stimulation to become these people, and yet somehow they live within us. I think the idea of place, the idea of time, the idea of space, whilst they are underwritten by physics, of course, I'm not in a position to refute that, they are also no doubt phenomena of scale, phenomena of perception, ultimately can time and space be said to exist beyond human perception of them. Can the idea of a self and other be

underwritten, undergirded when you reach a point of transcendence? I would say that this idea of a, you know, like an individual soul versus a universal soul kind of collapses in this realm of potentialities. It is both individual and universal and neither because all of these questions come about as a result of perspective that are temporal and prerequisite on our individualized incarnation here. Our experience as individual in our case, men communicating with one another. So I don't see necessarily, of course there is a contradiction, of course there is a conflict, but there is no contradiction in contradiction when you reach this point of transcendence and as I'm sure you're aware, you know, not to go out on this rather non-separateness.

Yeah, it's like the keyhole experience of the human incarnation produces a kind of illusion within which all of this complexity emerges or all of the, everything gets kind of scrambled here from being sort of inside a thing that is clearly not a whole on or whatever you want to call it, but that being said, you know, do you think that at some point, maybe it's already happened, some technology will emerge that allows our species to see beyond this limited human perspective where we're kind of like leashed to our identities? Do you imagine that in the same way we sort of achieved flight or in the way all the amazing innovations that have emerged from the human mind, do you think at some point we might actually transcend the spatial limitations of

being identified with a body technologically? Do you think it needs to be technological for us to accept it? Because I noticed that the sort of the metaphorical language that's used to describe the human condition often usually is a reflection of the kind of technology of the age, the machine idea of the human being coming about in the sort of like industrial age when people sort of began to understand mechanics and materialize and realize mechanics and when you were saying that about a technology, you know, I just don't know, it's such an area where I'm particularly clumsy and unaware, God knows that there is a large and complex map where I find myself inept, but mate, already the technology exists, like today before talking to you, I went to a funeral

and I watched how sort of heavily ritualized, obviously the process was a Catholic funeral and I was a pool bearer, so I held my mate's father for a little while and I watched the very young priest conduct the rituals and communion and how kind of, you know, bizarre it is, I'm not Catholic, to sort of watch that stuff play out and the theater of it and when I came back home, it was in London, I live outside of cities now usually where possible, I can't take it, I can't take the intensity and I do these breathing exercises, I recently learned of this teacher called Biet, this incredible breathing exercise where you sort of sit with your arse on your heels and you breathe in, throw your head back, exhale, you sort of inhale with

head back and exhale forward, inhale, sort of right big belly, breath, dunk and then on the final breath, I always, when I get taught these breath exercises, because you know I don't take drugs no more, that people always recommend a certain number of breaths and I sort of gradually incrementally add more and more breaths to it anyway, like on the final one, like having done these head back and forth inhalation, exhalations, you sort of stand on your knees as it were, you lift your bum up off your heels and stand on your knees, you take a big inhale and you push that belly out and you hold it and then you do the exhale with a bam bam, like a defibrillate in yourself, man, like I really like, now for like, I'm sorry you hate your chest, I'm sorry Russell, you're

saying you literally hate your chest, whoa okay, yeah you literally hit your chest right on the heart chakra on the exhale, bam bam, smash that out and you exhale on that and what I experience is a sort of a total sort of foreclosure of individual consciousness and yet an awareness and a strong sense that the thing that I experience in that state is a continuum, a continuum every bit as real as my individual identity, I was Russell when I was a little boy growing up in Essex, I was at Port West Ham, I got married then this happened that happened, oh no I've got kids now, oh look there's the dog, like this sort of linear idea of my life, this sort of a parametered boundary sense of self, I feel that entirely evaporate and yet there is still awareness,

I feel like I temporarily perforate, puncture this world where there are rules, where there is a language but I don't know it, I don't know it, it's beyond even semiotics Duncan, I can't even formulate it into oh and this was like a figure and that was happening, it's sort of not like that, it's too everything, too nothing, a vibrant nothingness and now I know a medical person would say well what you did there is you simply hyperventilated but actually what it feels like is access to a continuum of consciousness that is not predicated on my individual awareness and the systems of taxonomy that I apply to reality, I'm me this is that, that's what's happening here, this is language, this is imagery, you know so I would say the technology already exists.

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Bhagavad Gita, We Don't Mourn for the Living or the Dead and all that, anytime I go to a funeral, I feel it for days, like some kind of, you know, when you walk out of a cigar shop or something, you smell like cigarettes, when you leave a funeral that vibe soaks into you, how are you doing with that? Well, pretty good because as I say, it wasn't the person I knew well and I love my friend very much and he was behaved so well, I watched him with his young son, them two, they did readings and they behaved sort of so beautifully and they remained present and obviously there was sort of a moment where I thought about my own death and I thought about, you know, both my parents are alive, I know you've lost your mother and I think you made such a wonderful piece out of that

in your show man, that was such an incredible episode but I was sort of like aware of that, I was aware of that, I tried to remain present and death I feel like it brings you close to God, it brings you close to God and like you though mate, I know that there is no panacea for that the impact of death, like my cat died like a couple of months ago and it just tore right through me to that like I'd had that cat for 17 years, it was only a year in recovery when I got him and I felt like a deep unraveling but because of the sort of work I get to do on my spirituality, it meant I was able to experience that death and not ignore it or avoid it or forego it and it was painful and beautiful and so I suppose like the funeral, I think I was sort of in the car

because I like you mate, like you just indicated, I somehow expect myself to be able to just breeze through these experiences to not have the tobacco or the nicotine sort of lacquer on me but I was like today feels bleak for some reason then I thought you just come from a funeral mate, you've just been staring death in the face and it was a you know the curtain straw, it was a cremation and there was the surface and it was in England, it's raining, I mean Jesus. That's yeah, that's whoo, I just, I always, I love to imagine myself as some kind of transcendent yogi or some shit and you know we can pull that off, I can pull that off with spirituality, the self-deluding part versus like working out, you can't fake yourself into thinking you're in shape,

you see your body and you're like I'm not in shape but with spirituality you can, I can go through a couple of days where I'm like oh I think I've truly achieved realization and then a thing like that, a funeral loss of a pet, even more so loss of a pet sometimes and then there it is, you're at the abyss and you just are, you know, whatever part of yourself is still rooted in this world, all the implications, you know, all the implications, that's the part that gets me, you know, the great reality, you know, there's a, you know about this of course, I'm sorry, this Buddhist concept that one of the great miracles in the world is that most people don't really believe they're gonna die, that's one of the great global miracles is that people are going

through this thing like it doesn't end, you know, and then walloped right, you know, just smack right into that windshield of suddenly there's your friend's dad, there's your mom, there's your dad, you know, so that being said, you Russell Brand seem to have gained some kind of actual realization, if you follow the map of your life, which is a map, you know, which many people know because you're a celebrity, but when you follow the map of your life, comedian, sober person, that's when something starts shifting in you. And suddenly this role that, you know, that it was a role, you're playing the role of this like, this part is not a role, you're clearly like a linguistic genius, but you're a comedian, you're a party person, you're wild, you're wild, a rock star,

and then sobriety, and then now you have this beautiful podcast where you have really taken on this role as a spiritual leader. And so tell me, Russell, how do you, from a day to day, how do you deal with the fact that you really are somebody who has become a kind of teacher to a lot of people, a leader, someone who isn't afraid to like, maybe put down the role of rock star comedian and pick up the role of a sober person who really seems to have a legitimate interest that doesn't seem narcissistic, egomaniacal, but a real legitimate interest in trying to help folks who are freaked out. Duncan, what a beautiful thing to say to me. I thank you, you're so kind and I value your opinion, so it's especially gratifying to hear that from you.

I can only say, God must want me close because you made me so fragile, Duncan. I continually feel like, you know, don't take even the death of a pet or a funeral. In my ego, it's like, it's just out there. I can, my feelings can get hurt so easily. I'm continually reminded, you best not take yourself seriously. A mate of mine the other day said likely he'd had some spiritual realization about not taking life too seriously, but I, in my mind, that translated to don't take yourself too seriously. Don't take yourself too seriously because it, I get hurt easy. I take my, I find it very easy to be seduced. I can see why I became like a celebrity. I was very keen to sort of fortify some sort of identity and I had the kind of motivations that probably loads

of people that are working the kind of games we working have had. If I want to be validated, I want to be verified, but I was also like, again, like I'm sure like a lot of people you speak to, had a continual awareness that this ain't going to work. This is not what it is. I don't know what that is. I mean, that's why I suppose when you, the first question you ask is about the soul, that I have such a kind of certainty about it. But the certainty is only awareness itself, awareness itself, return to the awareness. As soon as I kind of start to overly identify with, yeah, I did this, I achieved that and people like me, it's immediately followed by punishment. Like it's punitive for me to think that. I mean it very literally, I don't get away with anything.

I'm one of them people that puts on weight easy. I'm one of those people that gets addicted to things. I'm one of those people that like, I feel experienced strong sort of sexual attraction and obsession and it always gets untidy, you know, like I, so for me, abstemiousness has been the path that I have been given. You know, I can't look at pornography. I can't objectify people instead of people. I can't treat my wife with anything other than respect. And yeah, I, you know, I fail, but now my failings have become, excuse me, a lot, the consequences, please God, have become less significant. Yeah, I can't imagine how someone as sensitive as me, as self-obsessed as me, ever went through a time where I'd like trip out on acid with lunatics and like,

I'd like to hang out in crack houses and start fights and I like, I don't know how I ever did that. Well, this, so this is something I've been thinking about a little bit and maybe you could help me clear it up in my head. The, and this sounds like such an idiotically simple thing to say, but I've really been noticed thinking like, you know, you don't have to respond to your emotions. You don't have to react to your emotions. And then a piece of me thinks, well, is it phony? So here you are, this hyper sensitive being that really does. I mean, you are like, if you look at the human incarnation as in, from the rather negative perspective, some people have, which is it is a kind of trap that you choose. It is its own drug. It's in some other dimension. You and I are

flesh addicts and we love to snort particular incarnations and get this very fleeting temporary eye compared to the length of the universe where we find ourselves in the material universe. We fool ourselves, wrapping ourselves in a blindfold of a limited perceptual mechanism. And for a very fleeting amount of time, we sort of wander through the world. Towards the end of our lives, there's a little glimmer of wisdom, maybe, and then we just blink out and you do the whole fucking thing again. But you look at these, that's one version. The Buddhist version is quite often like, you know, the human incarnation is a great incarnation, not because we can snort cocaine and do acid and fucking till our dicks hurt, but because

you find yourself in this middle place between the realm of the gods and the hell realms. And there's a potential to break the literal addiction to humanity itself so that when we die, we don't go back to whatever particular trap house they sell human incarnations at. But what I'm saying here is like, on the other hand, you see the other path, the left hand path, tantra, Crowley, magic. And on that path, they're like, listen to that part of yourself, the part that wants to fuck till your dick hurts, the parts that wants to take acid with lunatics, go down that path until it destroys you because what else did you come into this realm for but to satisfy your desires and you, Russell Brand of all people, oh, if you wanted to think of what you could do. So you know what

I mean? So I go back and forth between like, man, is it kind of phony to like resist all those grand impulses? That's the, you know, stereotypical Satan is Robert De Niro and Angel Heart thing. And then the other, then the other side of me is tuning into what you're talking about, which is like, well, actually, if I go down that path, I become a kind of like just a meat robot pointless ultimately. But tell me, Russell, is it phony for folks who have within them that thing that you have in a very deep way? Is it sort of like, is it really that we're just terrified of going deep into who we really are? And so we try to resist those impulses, imagining we're saving ourselves when it's just another fucking addiction. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for that rant. It's just I go back

and forth in my own head with that stuff, you know, like, fuck, I, I do, I know you mean man, if I follow my instincts, I'm going to be the worst husband, worst dad, and a complete self-absorbed piece of shit. But then on the other hand, I'm like, fuck, maybe that's just what I am. Well, I like it when you ran. You've got such a beautiful vocal range, such a wonderful conduit, a really, really great performer, mate. Thank you. Well, this is what I've been thinking about. Is I wonder how, you know, sometimes when I flirt with the atheists, I mean their ideology rather than the atheists themselves, of course. And when they say like, I think, isn't it interesting the way that the mystical has expressed itself in all these various traditions,

both what the things they have in common, whether it's the idea of the virgin birth or the resurrection or just something as simple as totemism or the crucifix, like these symbols and emblems that are recurrent or whether, you know, in Buddhism, like the sort of, perhaps the sort of most austere and sort of rational of the sort of really popular and well-known ideals still has reincarnation in it, which is still a bit, whoa, okay, well, you're going to come back again. I mean, that's sort of beyond rationalism. I feel like all of these ideas, these ancient ideas that have been around for millennia, that are evolutions of even, even older ideas, intuitive and reified through scripture, I kind of awareness of what was to come. And the new understanding that in the

subparticular realm, the what all of our rationalism falls apart, everything that we thought we knew is a local village custom. It doesn't matter even the stuff that we're made of in our own consciousness, our own bodies, the rules of thermodynamics, a moment, it all starts to unravel. It's like they intuited, oh, it's an endless cycle, you come back again, nothing is real, it's an illusion, all these ideas are embedded in it. I think a lot about sensitivity and I think about the language around it, you know, like I had a friend once that I used to hang with, I loved him a lot, he was a sort of, he was in my entourage type era, hung out with this dude who was pretty handy and on the periphery of criminality. And he used to be somewhat suspicious of the idea

of addiction, he used to say it's just weakness. But I thought like, you know, addiction is commonly understood as a disease, an ailment, a malady, an illness. And then I thought of how that's almost a synonym for sensitivity, a particular sensitivity. I have this sensitivity, it's not particularly rare. A lot of people I know have this sensitivity to the world, where you feel it brush against them, rub against them, the abrasiveness of the material world. And in it I think is the intuitive understanding that we are experiencing, but a fragment received through the senses of all potential possible realities. And that there is an ulterior realm accessible to us. It don't seem phony no more, it seems phony in moments, you know, that's why I need a practice,

because if I meet people that I'm attracted to, or if my ego is inflated, like, you know, even when you're saying nice stuff to me in the context of this podcast, I be mindful of the fact that as much as I value your love and respect and appreciation, your love and respect and appreciation can't save me, that this is a brief conversation that you and I all have, and you've got a family and stuff, and that you'll return to that, and I'll return to my family, and I can't become dependent on anything. I can't become dependent, and I'm lucky that I received those lessons in such a smack-in-the-mouth, plain way by becoming chemically dependent on E.G. heroin. It makes me realize, oh, I objectified salvation, I made it into something, and then it hurt me,

and I had to let go of it. Sometimes it does feel phony. You know, I remember, like, it comes down to these sort of very basic questions, Duncan, about whether or not you're optimistic or pessimistic about human nature, about whether or not you believe humans are good, ultimately. Like, if you go deep, deep, deep down enough, the will is what you're going to find there. Is it going to be love, or is it something more cynical and darker than that? And I have to believe that it's love, and I have to rationalize that that love is some kind of certainty of oneness, or at least not separateness. Like, they did some sort of etymological analysis of the word love in various, various languages, and they found that what it most commonly meant was union, coming together, as if on some deep,

pre-linguistic, pre-limbic aspect of our awareness and awakeness, we know that we are one thing, that what's looking at me from behind your eyes is the same as what's looking back at you. And I feel like this, for me, feels like a choice. Also, man, you'd love that thing that, William Blake's engravings of the Book of Job, where he says, like, where Yahweh and Job are depicted as sort of looking identical, and Job goes through these trials. Why does Job go through these trials? He was a good guy anyway, it seems, because he was unaware, he was unconscious, and Job, Yahweh shows to Job in these midst these trials. Here is the behemoth that I have made, and you see the behemoth, mate, and it's a scary looking thing as Blake depicts it in this engraving,

it's like it ain't got no skin on it, it's just muscle and sinew and appetite, some roaring, priopic, ever fucking bunch of just larynx and dumb fucking thing. And then he says, here's the leviathan that I have made as I made thee, the creature of the deep, the serpent, of silky fangs and scales, and these things are in us, we are them. And here in this book, this sort of Jungian analysis of these engravings of Blake, it says that we might like, it indicates at least if it doesn't say it, if we ain't good, then God ain't good. That's why we have to become good, that's why we have to become holy, because God is ambivalent. It's all things, if we don't manifest glory, if we don't manifest good, then there is no good, it's important, we're not trying

to get like a little badge or a stripe or some sort of approval, we are manifesting God's glory, because if we don't manifest it, then it ain't there. That is so beautiful and terrifying! It's terrifying. You know, at one point I was doing this visualization where I was trying to imagine I was hanging out with Jesus, and you know, in this case, I'll admit it was the white Jesus I picture, because that's the picture I've seen the most of, and I'm sitting with Jesus in some kind of Middle Eastern something, and I'm looking at him in this visualization, and that, to me, it was terrifying, because the being seemed beyond sensitive, beyond vulnerable. The being seemed like the being needed help, and that is the last version of Jesus I wanted my mind to create.

You wanted Jesus, it's going to help you! Me, Jesus! Oh, Duncan, I've not been well! And you know, this is like, to me, what you're saying is so beautiful, and on one, just purely if you want to go Jean-Paul Sartre, I'll bug-eyed and fucked up on speed, and France saying anything you do, you give the world the permission to do. You're the arbiter of morality, and every act that you do, you're saying, anyone can do this to me. You want to lie, you're saying everyone can lie to you. You want to cheat, you're saying everyone can cheat on you. That's the just no afterlife, but then the other, what you're talking about, process theology, that, oh, well, see, here's the

thing, we're the embryonic God right now. This, as it is, is it. There is no God, there's no more, we, God is still, like you're saying, the universe is ambivalent, but that's just because the rainbow wheel, like on your computer, is spinning. If the sum total of sentience and the damn thing veers in the direction, in the opposite direction MLK was talking about, then yeah, that's what we got. We got the leviathan, we chose the leviathan, and that's what we could become. But then, so what you're saying is so beautiful, I love it, because yeah, it's going against your instincts doesn't mean you're phony, right? It just means that you're, you're not an animal, you know, you don't, you do, but, and so I really do, I love what you're saying, and it did thank you, because it's something

I struggle with, because it seems so beautiful to real, like for me, it's like, I don't have to feel every moment, like I'm completely in love with my wife, to express love to my wife. If I start limiting myself to that, some emotional set, to be the thing that determines whether or not I can be kind to the world, then, oh man, that's putting, that's, or if you know, we limit ourselves to moments of epiphany, that that's when we're going to start writing, or if we limit ourselves to whatever the particular emotional coordinate is from which our, our souls manifest into the world, then we are going to be perpetually limited by that, that's just another drug anyway. But to me, this is, this is something that I still, I don't mean to keep digging.

Do, do you feel sometimes, and how do you deal with this, that this role that you've taken, you have these great Instagram posts, I have known, I've gotten jealous, women that I have been in relationships with, will show me, before we met, will show me Russell Brand Instagram videos, and be like, isn't this wonderful? And I'm like, no, it's not wonderful, not because I don't believe it, because it's like, don't look at Russell Brands. But what I'm saying, man, is don't, do you, you interviewed, you were, you were, Mooji, you interview all these spiritual people, but at some point you're going to become Mooji. Don't you feel like maybe you're holding yourself back from that, if something, do,

do you, or, or do you worry that if you spend too much time thinking about this, what you're doing, that you'll end up once again, succumbing to these sensitivities. You know what I mean? Like, at what point are you going to go full David Bowie? You know, and really let go of the brand, the Russell, the Russell brand, and like become what you already, this teacher thing, you know, I mean, look at Ram Dass, some point he gave up being the, the, the closeted gay, brilliant psychologist and became one of the great teachers. Do you see that in your future? I don't, like, yeah, I suppose I do, but even like seeing it is a little bit, you can see that

there's ego left in me, hey, to even have an attachment to that, to have an attachment to that idea. I'd see, I'm very comforted when you approach something that we found in like a, like the reason I like that book of Job thing, right, is because the book of Job is this, you know, thousands of years old bit of scripture, probably derived from folkloric things older than that, Blake, the 18th century British artist or 19th brother. And then, and then you say an existential philosopher, Satra is saying a comparable thing, like these truths keep realizing themselves through time. Now, like what I, you know, when you sort of take that back to sort of me and how I see myself, I like, I got that opportunity to go around the sort of celebrity

rollercoaster and feel it and experience it. And I got to be decadent and hedonistic and all of that. And I know from myth and I intuit it to be true that the grail comes again, that the grail comes again, it comes to you once when you're young, it comes to you again in middle age, you're offered once again, do you want it? Do you want to heal the wound? Do you want it? And if you, if I, I can't ever again make the mistake of believing in my constructed egoic identity, I can't ever do it again. I can't go back to that. I can't go back to the idea of some repackaging of celebrities, some new version of this time, I'm going to do it this way. Because I've, I'm, I'm moted by, I was to always had those what felt like a simplistic as twin

forces, even when, when I was a kid, I wanted to, I did stand up Duncan for a long, long time for nothing above pubs, like any stand up, you know, has to do it again and again and again for nothing in your crap and no one will pay you and people pelt you and physically assaulted and all of these things for years. And in that time, I, you know, I loved the art of it. I loved it. I loved it. But also I was hungering after the artifacts that the culture told me presented to me as fulfillment. They told me fame, celebrity, power, decadence, hedonism, this is what you are. This is your route. The clown is the shamed shaman. The shaman has been shamed and becomes clown. What? That is fucking crazy. Oh man, that's the coolest. Wow. What? Sorry. Go ahead. Oh man,

that's so cool. Sorry, Russell, didn't mean to emote so loudly to cut. Stop your rant. That was a zinger. Please continue. So I feel that I have to resist that thing in me that likes the sort of, you know, holder knotted crucifix as I'm holding now and wears a sweatshirt with gratitude on it. And I don't get to, I'm not too quick to rush into the robes and the blankets and to stand. I feel so at home though when I'm there on that frequency. I've got to tell you, this is when I'm happiest. Having conversations like this, I'm having with you. It won't matter if to me if you didn't broadcast it particularly, although it will be a buzz if you did. And like, you know, like, and I like sitting on stage and doing stuff that's increasingly becoming like

what they call it, satsang. You know, like my live shows when I was still doing live shows, it's becoming more and more people ask me questions. And I tell you, I had this experience once, mate. I was doing a film. I've done a film like last year, kids film. It would call four kids in it. And on the last day of it, because like, we are both things. We are both things. I am both the guy that does feel more comfortable in a movie hanging out with the guys that do the sewage on the trailers. And I'm also aware enough to know that that is a cliche to say that I am that, that I am the guy that prefers hanging. Anyway, I was hanging out with that guy. Like, I mean, that's all of the camp. Actually, I didn't just do the sewage. I'm just really

trying to embrace that underworld idea to really give this is Hades. This is Hades at base camp, Duncan. And like, I'm like, oh, on the last on the last day of the movie, after I've done some dumb thing of getting a nice cream truck to drive onto the set. And I did it in a sort of a little bit of an obnoxious way. There was loads of kids in this movie. So yeah, I'm trying to be Willy Wonka and everything. Anyway, like this guy who I've been chatting to the whole time told me that his sister, he goes and my sister, I've told you about my sister, she's on the phone. And she wants to talk to you. And he'd already told me that his sister's son had died 18 in the street of like taking pills. And like, he'd just had a heart attack or whatever. And it was a couple

of years ago. And he goes, here she is on the phone. Right. So then this woman, this mother, this grieving mother tells me this is like what she felt. And she tells me the particular details of her son's death. And in that moment, I don't know how to handle that. I don't know that the grief of a mother. But in that situation, I have to handle that. Like, I mean, it's like, that's where I am. So I have to. So in my little head, I say, please God, show just please talk through me because I'm talking to this woman now. And I cut what I'm going to say. Oh, I don't know that sad. I've got to tell her what she needs to hear. I've got to do it. And so she tells me the thing about the boy at the site and the she did. She told me like 148 I got a text saying see you later

mum at 248 someone else on his phone telling me daddy died on the street in front of 300 people outside a nightclub. My boy, she tells me this thing. And I just open myself. I open myself. And I say what I feel needs to be said, perhaps, and perform most acknowledging the inability of anyone to ever say anything that can can medicate or heal such a deep wound. And I suppose what I'm saying is, is like, the person that wants to become a teacher is the person that can't become the teacher. That's the person I used to be. And I want to let go of him. And I like when I spoke to Eckhart told one time, Duncan, he said, you can like, you know, it's not just old fame ain't gonna make you happy or celebrity or orgies or Ferraris children being a father.

Like all of the beautiful things won't do it either. He said, we can never be happy in the conceptual mind. We can only be happy by fully inhabiting the exact moment that we appreciate in the aliveness of the exact moment you're in. Yeah, return to this he says return to this. Well, this is so this is the to me like when I'm thinking about the concept of why we choose our incarnations. You picked a real riddle. And it's a real you it does imply a kind of like, you know, playing the video game on hard. I think this is why Buddhism starts with in the palace. And that's the thing I love about it. But it's Buddha starts in the palace. And, you know, you you you some people are very lucky. They, you know, take like

God, the dildo can see Rinpoche, you know, him, he's the Dalai Lama's teacher. He was Chogyam trumpet Rinpoche's teacher. He begged from a very young age begged his parents to let him become a monk. And then he like spilled hot soup on himself burn himself was in bed for for days. And in bed was saying, please, let me just become a monk, let me become a monk. And then he went in like lived in a cave for years. And so, you know, that's considered like real good karma. Whereas, but if the capitalist world, the world that it seems like we might be leaving kind of, it looks at you in your life as the good karma. It's like you got the brain, you got to be a comedian, you got to be a celebrity. And but but really, if you think about it, the real puzzle

that you're in is that you got all that stuff. And now you're beginning to experience Delgo can see Rinpoche's impulse when he was a kid, except you really are in you're still in the palace as long as you're in the Russell brand body as long as you're the you you can't go out and you can't go walk around. You can't if you have a problem with your ego getting inflated, you can't go in public. Wherever you go, you go to you're the guy who goes to a restaurant. And everyone pretends you're not there. But they're all like, Oh, fuck, that's Russell brand. Oh, fuck, Russell brand's eating. Oh, fuck, look, and they pretend not to look at you except for the one person who comes over and says, Hi, all I'm saying is what a what a beautiful trap. You don't have to suddenly

get the taste for the things you're getting the taste for and then simultaneously still be in the gravity well of the identity of a celebrity. To me, wow, that's amazing. How what is how are you going to solve this problem? Well, some of that those some of that's not that hard, because I think that in that same restaurant, if Jay Z or Justin Bieber or Adele or any one of thousands of people came into that restaurant, that my presence would suddenly be irrelevant. So and also it is a reminder to I cannot allow myself to go unconscious. I cannot go unconscious. I have to stay present and aware in the moment. I can't live in other people's perception of me. I can't allow that to be who I am. I love your palace metaphor with self, you know, theology like

that starts in the palace. And yeah, and it's his journey begins there in the case of Buddha. I heard once might be Joseph Campbell, I can't remember. But like they said that when you know when they knew that Christ was coming, they check the palaces and new king is coming a new king is coming. So they think they saw that the palace is where we're going to find this guy. If a king's coming, he's going to be born in the palaces. But where is the king born? The king is born in the stable. Where do you find your sovereign? You find your sovereign among the animals, you find your sovereign among the poor, you become a king, you become in throne and enshrined in poverty. Now like I grew up in a pretty ordinary background. I'm a single parent, only child just with my mom.

I felt inadequate. I was overweight and like this the rush of like celebrity Duncan, it sort of was euphoric. It was a hurricane of stimulation and acceptance. It was overwhelming. It was saccharine and I drowned, you know, I drowned, but it killed me. It sort of and it kept killing me. And I was awake in the middle of my death in the kind of this isn't working. And the times that from the outside looked like the best times were torturous, were torturous. And I've been slowly trying to descend, descend into being a real earthed father, into being a husband, into being an awakened and authentic expression of who I am. I participated in a men's retreat the other day and I ran a couple of sessions at it and I spoke to that dude James McLeary. James McLeary is part

of a group called Inside Circle. There's a documentary called The Work that you can see where in false and prison they run men's groups. He's so cool, man. I told this James McLeary, he's a great teacher. He said like I called him out before because I'm running these men's group. I'm thinking of doing some like some of the work they do. They do role play stuff, mate, where they get men to reenact like traumatic events that happen to them in childhood. But bearing in mind they're doing it in false and prison, there's these guys that are out of the crypts or guys that are our white supremacist gangs in the chapel. It's a sacred space of neutrality. So they will all work with one another. But it's like people that are in prison for murder

reenacting events from their childhood. They also bring in men from the outside. And I said to James McLeary, I wanted to try some of these exercises. I said, I don't feel like I'm ready to do it. He said your humility is attractive. But I feel like you're ready and you'll be all right. I still didn't feel ready. I checked him with a couple of other other men on the group when we did it. I'm thinking of doing this thing. I thought some of them have seen that film and know the work. He's sort of common comparable to Gestalt type stuff anyway. And this guy, Willie, who's one of the people to do the group with, he goes, yeah, yeah, try it, try it. And I ran it with, I ran an exercise with a sort of young man and it was sort of without blowing

this dude down and him, he sort of father stuff, the sort of stuff you would anticipate. And afterwards, I called James McLeary and I said, I did it. Thank you. Thank you for giving me the confidence. It went well. And he said, he said, like, and I told him how I'd done it as well. I told him that when this guy sort of said about particular incidents, I told him about stuff that happened to me with men when I was a kid and how I'd felt humiliated and not heard and sometimes intimidated and physically friend, et cetera. And he said, James McLeary, he said, your authentic self will trump imposter syndrome every time, every time. Yes. That's it. That's what I'm talking about, man. God, Jesus, that's so cool. Man, that is so beautiful. This is what

I'm talking about. This is it. Thank you. I just struggle with that shit so much, man. My head is a legion of like comedians and cynical friends and cynical people. And anytime I want to start opening up about just even to imagine going to a men's group, a cacophony of people in my head are like, oh, come on. The number of eyes, talk about the leviathan. The leviathan in my head has millions of eyes and they all roll, roll backwards. You know, so to me, I think that's, to me, that's some, one of the many things I love about you and feel really inspired by is that you threw it off. You threw it off. But Russell, wasn't there a time in the liminal phase between where you are now and where you were? There must have been some of your friends who are like,

what happened to you? What's going on with you? One of the things that's fortunate about being like in recovery is you sort of accept numerous deaths, the death of the drug addict, death of the sex addict, the death of pornography, the letting go of this. And so there's, there were, I called up a mentor I have and I like a sort of, when I stopped being, living in Los Angeles and being involved in that entertainment and everything, I came back here and I got really suddenly immersed in activism and that's thing really blew up. And before I knew it, they were talking about me in their houses of parliament, which is the equivalent of your Congress. And I was in the newspapers all the time. It got really out of control

and it sort of blew up and it collapsed. And the reason it collapsed is because my ego got involved, if you're interested, because I started to think, me, I am powerful. And it immediately fell apart. I forgot that what was actually happening is I said things that other people felt. And so like I became a kind of a conduit for them. Then I thought, no, it's me. It's me. And I tried to take it. I tried to wear it, Duncan. I tried to wrap myself in the fleece and it all went dark for me. So like I am, like at that point, my whole, I remember calling up this guy, my sponsor, and it goes to him, I feel like I could walk away from everything in my life. I feel like I could walk away from the house. I live in my friends, everything, the job I do,

I feel like I could walk away. And he knew well enough to say, you know, to sort of talk about Dante and like a half, at the halfway point, at the halfway point, when suddenly you can see there's more behind you than there is in front of you, you start to evaluate, who am I? What am I going to, and like I experienced another death there. And before too long, I was in Bicom Incidents was in Glastonbury is where I went to, which is obviously a really sacred sort of place in England with the woman I'm now married to, where we sort of went there and hung out together and sort of practiced, like unc, without stating as much, can we be together? Can we be, can we live together and do this? And so I accepted that death, I accepted that death. And I suppose we

have to continually accept that death. Like he says, Campbell, what does it matter if Christ died on the cross 2000 years ago, if you don't die unto yourself every moment and become reborn, reborn in the moment, that we're not the same men we were at the beginning of this conversation that we have grown. And I love that thing you did, that vision question. I would love to hear more about how you did it where you sort of hung with Christ and he was fragile, real calf Jesus, shivering and pale and hopeless white Jesus in a crate I'm able to cope. I sometimes do like imaginary sweat lodges with like another think of who I have this sometime I have like Muhammad Ali there and Bill Hicks there and John Lennon and some yeah, yeah, yeah and Foster Wallace. And I

imagine that we're sat hanging out in like a sweat lodge. And I think I sort of meditate and I pray with them and think of their like them going, yeah, you'll be all right, you'll be all right, they encourage me on or sometimes maybe it'll be Gandhi or whatever depends on what sort of thing I think I need. And I like to use these sort of imaginary somewhat mystical exercises. Yeah, I heard about it in chaos magic. This whole, you know, the idea that you can, you know, everybody's picking these deities just because they're like, you know, Jesus is like the celebrity deity Buddha. It's everybody knows Buddha. But the idea being that Oh, no, you you're still in the part of your consciousness where you think it needs to either be a global figure, religious symbol,

where in chaos magic, the idea is, Oh, no, you can actually summon Batman. You can sign because you're, you're plugging into the archetype of the thing that embodies those particular symbol sets, not the symbol set itself. And so you can send your own sentience into anything you want. So the Jesus thing, it did wasn't anything more than I was listening to a televangelist saying you should talk to Jesus. And so I, I parked my car and just sat there. I was like, okay, Jesus, let's talk. And there it was just right there. And it was like, Oh, no. Oh, no. But to me, I think that that's, you know, the idea everyone's like, well, aliens, why would they look like us? Well, the reason they look like us is because they're more advanced.

And they made themselves look like us to say hello, not because they happen to look that way. And I think that's probably the same with any kind of archetype you contact. It's not that's not the way Jesus is, but that's the way Jesus decided to show up for me in that moment. Being like, what are you going to do? Lean into a symbol and pretend everything's okay. Meanwhile, you're, you're, you're being an asshole in the world. I need your fucking help. And that, that's beautiful. So to me, that's really beautiful. We only have five minutes and I'm sitting here trying to think of some pithy way thing. Last question to ask you. And I, this is cheesy. We can cut it out if you don't want to do it. You want to, will you say a prayer?

Yeah, all right. I'm down for a prayer. Always. Well, okay, let's start. Oh, God, however we can conceive of you and off the back of what Duncan just said about how archetypes will be realized, however we can comprehend them may all listening to this understand a benevolent and kind presence in their life, perhaps as personified by someone they knew or an experience that they've had, or perhaps by a God from the superstar panoply that me and Duncan will go for one of the greats, the Buddhas, the Jesus, the Mohammed. Be careful if you, if you imagine him, keep it in the imagination. Don't render him physically or you'll irritate a lot of very, very devout people. Or perhaps it's from the celebrity world or even

the comic book world, but to recognize that there are sacred super material beings, energy systems accessible to you. And I pray, I pray for us to reach our highest good. I pray for the great light within you to realize itself. I pray for it to grow for it to connect into the light within each of us. I pray that we will be held together. I thank you, God, for the gift of Duncan Trussell for his wit, his passion, his rasping excellence, the orchestra that is his voice, the beautiful John the Baptist madness that is his face. So thank you for his creative voice in the world, for his ability to tell stories and to pull together references from across culture. Please, God, help me to become the person that you would have me be. Please, God,

forgive all the things that I've done that are out of alignment with the moral code that you've planted in me with the intuition I feel in my belly, the own moral barometer where I feel when I have strayed. Show me more clearly, God. Give me the knowledge of your will and the strength to carry it out. Allow me to help the vulnerable people in this world. Allow me to bring about laughter and wisdom and please allow me to walk the path that you intend me to walk. Over to you, dear Duncan. God, thank you so much for giving me the ridiculous pleasure of getting to do a podcast with Russell Brand, who just poured a lifetime's worth of transformative data into my brain and answered all the questions that were eating me alive. Please, God, don't be afraid to take

my poodles bark out of his mouth from now on, but please keep him alive. I love Gatsby so much, but if he interrupts the podcast one more time, I don't know what I'm going to do. And finally, God, please continue to inspire Russell Brand, because we need him. Vulnerable white Jesus needs Russell Brand. Thank you, Russell, for being on my show, man. That was such a delight. I am so grateful for your time. I can't thank you enough. And I mean, it's a ridiculous thing because you're Russell Brand, but how can people find you? I don't, I just, if they do find me, they should tell me where I am. I love you. Thank you so much, Russell. That was beautiful. Thank you so much.

Amen. Thanks, man. I loved it too. It's such a, I really get off on talking to you. It really helps. Me too, man. I hope we could carry on offline. I was going to try to talk to you, and then I got nervous about sending you messages, but we'll talk about my own neurosis off the podcast. You're amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Duncan. You're great. Cheers, mate. That was Russell Brand, everybody. How cool is that? I can't believe I got to talk to that guy. You can listen to his podcast under the skin, which is available on luminary and a big thank you to our wonderful sponsors. All the links to the offer codes are at dunkatrustle.com.

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