Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 415: Daedelus

Episode Date: December 20, 2020

Daedelus, musician, DJ, producer, and artist-in-residence at SETI, joins the DTFH! You can check out Daedelus' Patreon here, or learn more about his teaching role at Berklee here. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: ExpressVPN - Visit expressVPN.com/duncan and get an extra 3 months FREE when you buy a 1 year package. Feals - Visit feals.com/duncan and get 50% off and FREE shipping on your first order. DHM Detox - Use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and save 20% on your first order!

As a roofer, I'm always on the go, so I need to be able to get things done from anywhere. That's why I partnered with Beacon. With the new Beacon ProPlus app, I've got the brands I depend on, like GAF, right at my fingertips. It's like having my Beacon rep in my pocket 24x7. I rely on Beacon because I never stop building, and neither do they. Now through June, purchase through Beacon ProPlus and earn up to 1500 bucks. Beacon, always building.

Hi friends, it's me, Duncan, and you're listening to the Duggetrussle Family Hour Podcast, recorded in the Gough, aka the Well of Souls, or the Columbarium, as they call it up here. Here's a song about the CIA. I want to be the Bohemian Grove, want to eat chicken wings with a secret key. I want to be in the skull and bone, want to be in the room when they activate my clone. I want to be a chosen one, flying in a spaceship while I make a lizard come. I want to be in the CIA. I want to be in the CIA.

That's I Want to Be in the CIA, and that was released by the CIA. I'm really loving all the music that they've been putting out lately. They really have hit a stride. I didn't like the Prograc bullshit. They're putting out in 2019, but wow, it's like they've really found themselves, and I hope that they see you already. Friends, we have a spectacular podcast for you today. Daedalus is here on the DTFA, but first this, ExpressVPN.

A big thank you to ExpressVPN for supporting this episode of the DTFH. If you feel like humping the great digital demon that is the internet, why not protect yourself? If anybody found out that I love looking at foot fetish style dominatrix porn, preferably German porn on the internet, my career would be over. And so I use ExpressVPN. And use ExpressVPN, your internet connection is rerouted through a secure encrypted server so you can surf the web anonymously without anyone looking over your shoulder.

Look, I know many of you probably think that incognito mode keeps you safe from the dark crying eyes of literally millions of various agencies, couples, and chaos agents, but you're wrong. Even when you use incognito mode, your internet provider like Comcast or AT&T can see every single website you visit. If you live on campus or use a shared wifi, your network admin can too. To be honest, that's kind of scary. Without ExpressVPN, you're giving people a free license to peek over your shoulders.

You look at whatever freaky stuff you're looking at, kiss your neck, comb your hair while you pleasure yourself. Don't do that. If you do that, you might get spanked. Protect your privacy today and get three months of ExpressVPN for free. Visit expressvpn.com slash Duncan. That's expressvpn.com slash Duncan for three months free with a one-year package. Visit expressvpn.com slash Duncan to learn more.

It's so wonderful to have a kid in preschool because sometimes they make stuff for you and they bring it home and I just wanted to read something that Forrest wrote in preschool. Dear daddy, I sure hope that eventually human beings realize that there's no such thing as artificial intelligence. There's only intelligence and that the reason that so many humans are currently scared about the emerging of artificial intelligence. He finger painted this. It's hard to read all of it.

Emergence of artificial intelligence is that they are projecting their own experience with what they think of as intelligence upon this brand new life form that is growing from the eternal womb of the collective. I hope that people begin to understand. So sweet. I hope that people begin to understand that intelligence is one of the qualities of the divine consciousness and therefore is fundamentally good and that the reason humans feel that nervous when it comes to intelligence is they associate colonialism and dominator culture

with intelligence when in fact these two things that have caused so much suffering and sorrow in the world are more of a result of delusion a.k.a. the self-identified human ego obscuring the radiant light of the divine intelligence that shines eternally from the soul. I really just want people to enjoy their lives and look forward to the future, which is going to be so wonderful and so beautiful that there will be galactic visitors coming to Basque in the novelty. I love trucks and I just want more trucks left for us. Isn't he so cute?

I love him so much. You know, I'm not afraid of artificial intelligence, especially after meeting today's guest who was introduced to me via the AI of Spotify. Before I forget, loves, if you want commercial free episodes of the DTFH, head over to patreon.com forward slash DTFH and subscribe. We gather generally three times a week for a family gathering, a book club and a guided meditation called Journey into Boredom, but you can join us by going to patreon.com forward slash DTFH.

You're going to get commercial free episodes of this podcast and you will get access to many interviews before I release them. Patreon.com forward slash DTFH. Today's guest is the artist in residence at SETI that search for extraterrestrial intelligence. I will let them explain what that is during our awesome conversation. They also have a really great Patreon. If you're interested in making music, learning more about making music, head over to patreon.com forward slash Daedalus music, and they also teach at Berkeley.

They're brilliant. They make the coolest music that I've heard in a very long time, and now they're here with us. Everybody please welcome to the DTFH Daedalus. Welcome to the DTFH. And thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for the invitation. I must admit that I was taken off guard.

I am not a spiritual leader. I am not a thought provoker. I just do my little humble bit of ditty and I know that can kind of reach out sometimes just every once in a while and do that magic thing. Oh, that's so interesting in the sense. Well, I mean, I think that first of all, the podcast, you know, I do love interviewing spiritual leaders thought leaders, but I think it's curious that you would think somehow you're not in that category in the sense that since the algorithm blessed me with your music,

the great machine. I must have done the right invocation in my dreams and suddenly it's like, oh, if you like that, you're going to like this and I'm listening and thinking, my God, whoever this is their mind, what kind of mind is producing this was making this. And then I thought, honestly, it's funny you start off by being humble because I thought, well, this guy definitely isn't a secret society has to be. You can't make this kind of music unless you're part of some mystical tradition. So where does it come from then for you?

Yeah, I mean, that's the that's funny you mentioned that. Well, two things. It's funny you mentioned that because in part, I have a deep engrossing overwhelming amount of mysticism, partially just because the effect of sound itself, like I have been under its spell forever and trying to understand that for myself and for others like you. I have said this before, but I will say it again. You play one good show as a musician and it ruins you. You will be in pursuit of that feeling, that sensation, that spirit forever.

And so I've tried to unlock it both on stages and in records, but also away from all that, like trying to really get to the bottom of why phenomena and sound and then it's all of its spiritual manifestations resonate with me so much and then, you know, everyone else everyone else has some song or sound or artist that that turns that key for them. And on the other side, just one brief mention, I use they them pronouns, it's just something for myself. And so. Gotcha.

Yeah, just just thrown it out there and it's yes, it's been a trip, especially having forgive me if I said already messed that one up because I knew that and I'm sorry if my habit of referring to people manifested somewhere earlier. I say dude so much. I am I'm very West Coast and very L.A. and so given just even a half a chance, you will you will hear an outgrowth of awesome and dudes aplenty. I do man's and I'm always I'm like, I don't mean man, but it just is like some placeholder or something.

But this thing you're talking about, I saw on YouTube one of your shows and I think you tweeted it like a pre pandemic show and we're all missing that so much. But I was what watching you perform and just from just the video feeling what that must have been like to be in the room. But I wonder if you could help me understand as much as you understand what that particular energy is. So I think a lot of people resonate immediately with the fact that music is like this great intonator of emotional energy.

Like you can you can really communicate very complicated, like not just emotions, but ideas. If you ever listen to the uncomfortableness of jazz, like if the listeners out there have heard like hard bop, like the bebopist of bops, and like the kind of overwhelming weird kind of tensions, like some people just get like uncomfortable immediately with this like the jazz. And part of that is that there's like these huge large volumes of information that are coming at coming at them. And it's like it's like undeniable how much information there is there, how many notes

and how many how the interaction between these players are all forming this lattice. But to me, even more so than the emotions is that that musicians are time workers. And I don't mean this in the psycho spiritual way. I mean, like very directly you are playing, you are like resonating with someone's past and you are also speaking to their future in a way that comes together in a sound moment that is undeniable. Like, you know, a lot of people can regress so completely to their like teenage years with a single song, you are like immediately transported back to the exact time place.

And and who is to say that isn't actually happening to that degree. And now sure, there's chemicals unlocking in the brain. And there's like those are destroying themselves and remaking themselves. And like the accuracy is far from assured. But that and that that reflash of melody, you are there, you are with it. And wow. And so when you're playing a show, to me, I love leaning into the kind of shared zeitgeist of of like, OK, you might know this song and I'm going to try to pervert it or twisted

this way or that way. But on top of that, it's just the loudness, the undeniable aspect of being like, do you know what entrainment is? It's like this very human function. Right. So when we can get entrained, it's like we can sink our nervous system. We can sink our breath. We can do all this like physiological stuff that is you couldn't ask someone to think about it consciously and do so.

You only can entreat them with a sound and like pull them one direction. And then a warm room. This is another theory, too, that I love so much. The warm room, the comedians talk about it all the time. But you get into that space where like anything's possible. Like the veil is like thin and like, yes. And it's just the warmth and it's like such a not the greatest term for it. But it's so like when you're feeling it, it's just like, oh, it's electric.

It's magical. Bob, there's a term in I don't know if you heard the term BHAV. That's another term for it. It's like, you know, when it usually gets used for mystical, spiritual situations. But certainly that is a mystical, spiritual situation. It's that sense of being very close, if not there with something. I think maybe this is why the best shows give me a sense of like, wow, I could definitely imagine an alien could be here or be looking in at this or this is the alien.

But I want to start if we could at the first thing you said, which is the temporal aspect to it. And in particular, the idea of time travel, which, you know, and I know on one level that we're talking about, if you want to reduce it to the most boring place, we could say music is doing for your brain what a farmer does to a cow. It's milking dopamine serotonin in a certain way. And it's getting you high. Great.

So that's a different podcast, but let's jump to the next level of it, which to me, I do think that it's, especially these days with what we're there saying they're discovering with quantum physics, the implication of parallel timelines completely creates the possibility of this form of time travel in the sense that the music becomes a bridge to a parallel timeline that's happening simultaneously. That is one, but is a few years earlier than this one. And in those two moments, you're past you and you are holding hands via the music.

And that's why when you listen to it, when you were for the first time, we're like, I really like this. Maybe it was because you were touching yourself in the future. And do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, no phonons, right? Phonons are the most basic unit of vibrational energy. It's like photons, but the sound version, basically. Oh, and so phonons only exist in matter.

They, you know, you would imagine that photons are like this wild, free thing across the universe, whereas phonons only, only agree in the lattice work of basically atomic, this is like, at least how they're understood. But as, as it's been detected and kind of gone, drilled down on, let's say, through this modern science machine, we're detecting more and more that they operate on a quantum level. Of course, just like photons do. There's like this trick of them.

And so if you're talking about, of course, like this micro phenomenon, but then, you know, across the universe, that micro phenomenon becomes overwhelming and macro and effective. And so why not, why not think that we're playing in the same, same spaces? Now, I'm not one of the, one of the people that describes to certain frequencies, have certain feelings. Famously, Eric Sati believed that certain notes had certain emotions attached to them.

I think it was called a fenestration or something. And he had an early version of a DB meter, like, like the most basic, like loud or soft, like as like almost like a ticker, like a stock exchange meter thing. And he would like look at like a C, like a middle C and be like, I don't like this note. It's angry. Like this is, this is, and so you'll see the, you mean, wait, I'm sorry.

He would like a middle. So he would hear a middle C, just a note, just a note, but he would think in this moment, it's angry or it's transient, like a quality of it is angry. Or this particular note is a living, like an angry bird that flew in. I can't speak to it in total. And every time I tried to do research on the matter, it's just people basically shout them down as quackery. But I've learned over time that what is often just disregarded, but by those

who touch on a certain kind of greatness, there's a lot of truth to it. Yeah. There's just, and I'm not saying that, that, you know, everything Eric Sati did was, was touched by genius. And actually even the concept of musicians being genius or being special or different is troublesome, right? There's they, we could go into that in a second. The fact that society builds these people up or, or tends to want to

give them special powers just because they play with special powers. Does that make sense? Right. Yes, absolutely. And I think oftentimes the people who wield it the best know the least about it. And maybe that's part, that's like a function, maybe that's built in. It's a form of cruelty to call someone a genius, isn't it? Sometimes it's, it's, it's really putting a lot of weight on them, because

now they've got to be a genius in front of you. There's some sense of a continuum of genius where like every moment they're going to be, I don't, yeah, I know what you mean. Are the stereotype of the genius, which is also weirdly somehow a person who's like challenged in some way or like has a personality disorder, all of that. It's a lot of musicians do though. Let's just be fair. There's like, there is something about touching madness in the Cthulhu sense.

You look at it a little too much and you're going to be, you're going to be shattered slightly. Yes. But that's neither. But that bring, but that actually is here because it brings me to the next thing I wanted to ask you relating to this possibility of music, transcending time and space. If music is doing that, then in the mode, in the process of creation, if when

you're listening to music, you're connecting to your past and your future. Then in the process of creation, what are you connecting to? Where is the music flowing from into you? Yeah. And the way it's been, the way it's been presented to me and the way I resonate with it best is that when you were fully in the flow of it, when you're fully in the moment, you were abdicating your role as composer or creator, and you were simply a vessel for something else.

Now, what that else is, is really just depends on you as, as an artist, what that particular medium, that channel that decides to touch down as. For me, I often find that when that like true solidarity, like the quickness of it comes, I am not totally present. I am especially not an arbiter of good or bad. It is just, there is like a kind of a rightness that seems to undo a lot of wrongs. And I feel like I am, I'm putting my finger in like the damn of entropy, so

to speak. Like I am just. I'm just holding up against this overwhelming feeling of like disintegration. And it can feel really empowering, but it also feels very precarious. It's like, you know, you talk about it too much. You tease it too much in the, the bread falls and the thing dies and it becomes too cajoled. So I feel like a lot of the spiritualism that I felt initially regarding

music was just that thing of like, don't shake the baby, like don't ruin the thing, don't even look at it too much because it may disappear for you. But then you do it again and again. And you're like, well, no, there's something else here. Like I may not be totally in control of it. I may not decide especially what success for bad. Now that's totally different metrics, right? Like success and poor, you know, what, what works and what, what flies and fails

really depends on like much larger societal things, but just that self satisfaction, that knowledge that when something is right and you've righted something in the universe, right? You've just, you've curved, you've curved it slightly and it has a little bit of English or whatever that phrase is. And it kind of goes into actually wouldn't have expected. And it's, you know, there's only in the traditional Western scale, there's only 12 notes available to us and they have octaves and they have overtones and they

have timbre, but it's really this limited set. And so you're like, well, that's a finite system. There's only so many variations, but then you, you, you find something different in it. You, you know, you, you pluck it from the bottom of the ocean, something else. And it really feels like that, that thing of making golem, right? You, you make, you intone into existence, something has never been. And it's only that fleeting moment.

It's in front of you. And sometimes you were able to, to kind of ask it to stick around a little bit longer. Tremendous thank you to feels for supporting this episode of the DTFH. My dear friends, I get stressed out and sometimes I get insomnia and CBD helps me sleep. It's incredible. Not all CBD is the same.

Some CBD tastes like somebody squeezed a rotting unicorn horn out in your tongue. Just sprayed it with some pus filled black semi-cosmic unicorn horn juice. Doesn't taste great. That's what I'm trying to say, but feels is premium CBD delivered right to your door. It tastes great. If you're new to CBD, they have a free CBD hotline to help guide your personal experience.

I chatted with them to figure out dosages for knocking my ass out at night. Helps you feel better naturally and it works naturally to help you feel better. There's no high hangover or addiction. You can join the feels community to get feels delivered to your door every month. You'll save money on every order and you can pause or cancel at any time. Feels has me feeling my best every day and it can help you too. Become a member today by going to feels.com slash Duncan and you'll get 50% off your first order with free shipping.

That's F E A L S dot com slash Duncan to become a member and get 50% automatically taken off your first order with free shipping. That's feels.com slash Duncan. Can you talk a little bit? You use the term cajole. I really love that. Can you talk about that a little bit more? That thing when you're in the making something and suddenly you realize you're

I don't know literally when you're making music. It's about exciting atoms. You are pushing air and so cajoling really does feel like the kind of verb for it because you were asking the air to be excited in a different way around you. Sometimes it is the thing of stressing the space and sometimes it's really relaxing the space but it's always about a release and it you know how do you say this? There's something about warming up like the friction of the thing I guess. And so this is where the mysticism comes back.

I became and I've done a few records that involve invoke the mystic and maybe you haven't gotten there in your own like lookings and learnings but like the order of the golden dawn like for 18th year. That is my number one jam. I've been listening to that every day on the way to the studio. Is it contemplating what it means and why you what the album cover means and yes so please continue. So yeah the order of the golden dawn was a was a practical magical organization from 1875 that was started by some of the same people who invented the modern tarot and it was interesting and

they're notable in part because they pulled their mysticism not from the Judeo-Christian or even where the Judeo-Christian thing was going in terms of like the you know they were starting to look towards these like illusionary figures in Tibet and maybe some of the comedic you know the kind of Egyptian tradition of things but equally and this is this is the way that the world gets really tough so like the order of the golden dawn this ancient thing blah blah blah but then also there's a golden dawn in in Greece that's like a fascist political organization and for a period of time I would like try to look up more information about this you know like on the internet which is just useless in some ways but yeah I kept

coming across this fascist organization like what have I done like I didn't mean to invoke that like that was not part of this this ritual and yet this is the modern moment you are like everything at once the Anthropocene is like the the private made public and you know what are we to do but like just try to put out like like so here's the song that has you know like it has plenty of lyrical mentioning about the order of the golden dawn I'm trying to really invoke that thing and it fits in the framework of the larger record and hopefully pushes forward this idea of gold right like the alchemy alchemy deal process which is such a musical process not with philosopher stones but with this like traditional melody these kind of tools that we have in terms of music theory

which is useless and useful in its own way but and then at the same time like just trying to get away from the practical modern application that's like why do these nitwits have to like like go squat on my beautiful beautiful crown of history well I but I you know what I think I think you know in the same way that they they have a tendency of nabbing and corrupting all the most beautiful symbols they took the swastika they took you know they take these like beautiful incredibly powerful meaningful things and warp instantaneously warp them I just think it's a sign if anything it's more of a sign that the actual thing has some power to it which and again when I was listening to it who is singing on that by the way order of the goal who is that that's my ex-wife

wow yeah they've gone on to do some some lovely not too many other recordings but they're a great musician in themselves and someone to check out named Laura Darlington if you if your listeners ever want to check out their work as well they're out there on a lot of flying lotus records and some other recordings okay yeah well so that's when I'm listening and I thought oh they for sure are in the golden dawn so I have to ask are you in that order because I know that order does currently exist the current order is is let's say it has gone a different way it has gone less towards the practical magic and more the understanding you'll see them with their Egyptian symbols and they've kind of released or relinquished this idea of the the Bagua and

these these things that was received and maybe it was all muddled in the beginning but just the fact that there was such a push towards mysticism in the 19th century and then they were trying to be like no no there's a practical magic that exists and it is is made up of certain ritual and orders and Crowley comes out of that tradition and you know others really did sprout from that and but so I was using it very specifically both to invoke some interest and obviousness towards anyone who wants to look now I love that about the mystical or hermetic traditions that it's all there just if you ask if you just want in you can be in right and and I've asked and you know sometimes people answer or sometimes other things happen um but equally I was really talking about the may I

stop you at that moment please so to me that moment that you're talking about is interesting in the sense that our expectations of getting in can only be the way we've understood getting in in the past do you know so when I think of getting in I think of like you know getting a call where I got a job or something like I'm gonna be on drunk history I'm in man I did it forgive me they and I mean that I am it's hard for me to please it's habit so the the uh the getting in in these things sometimes I think the way that we are gotten in is vastly slower way more subtle and way more sweet than you're in kid do you know what I'm 100% the allowing yourself it's you know there is this I think you're absolutely right the ask the idea that the individual has some amount of

like we have control is kind of a strange notion that we you know we've clung to and and obviously it's like at least part of my American manifestation of especially of art right like I feel sometimes like I made something and like what are you talking about like I I just sit here and occasionally something happens like that's the magic trick the idea that actually I created something novel is is a ruse is just like and so much the same way I think mysticism is just such low hanging fruit and but we put up such walls to it and a lot of it comes from our ego supposition where it's like this is this is this vessel this being is is like airtight nothing is supposed to exit or enter with the exception of delicious things in my ears and mouth and out other parts and you know just

this is very yeah it's it's this idea of like my my perceived reality is the one that's happening and of course the shared one is much more delicious like you're saying and yeah yes and absolutely and it's subtle and especially this idea like so this this the kind of idea practical magic being like so removed right like you know this whole idea that you know science is indistinguishable for magic at a certain level and we certainly have a bunch of that but it's so it's such a different dirty jagged pill than it is such a subtle sublime sweet thing or resonant melody or you know these kind of whatever kind of musical phrases we could use um oh resonant yes and and the sort of the disentangle you know the lord of the rings you uh clearly are fascinated with harry

potter uh or there's harry potter stuff i don't mean i mean like one of your songs about muggles there's a you have an album that seems to be a breakdown of various unbreakable wands including narwhal tusks and as i'm with i the problem with the algorithms that shotguns tracks at you so you're not going through the whole album but as i it kept jumping back to your wand album i realized oh each one of these is some kind of wand possibility but regardless what i'm saying is because of our when i'm in the early days of my thinking about magic it was like that it looked like that and it could look like that but but in those moments i realized oh my god the magic and you're experiencing it right now is that i have a sun you know what i mean like that yes absolutely

that's it yeah you know and how are you harmonizing uh with being a new father yeah so and that's and that so this is that's part of the the even the reason why i i brought up the they themness is that i am so in tune with this life form my partner and i are so loving this kind of aspect of bringing forth and i i have been practicing this my entire life i realized like putting out record after record is pales in comparison to bringing forth life but there is something i've been patterning and i never thought i would i would do the child thing i never thought it i'm a bit older and it just felt like my day had passed and and the opportunity then provided itself and it was like oh we're we're doing this this is like life is happening life

is bringing forth life is galloping and then also that kind of like oh wait i i i don't feel parental yet like i don't i don't harmonize with this like these kind of binary roles and so it's like well and where does that rest where does that land and in many ways i don't have people to point at or heroes unlike music where it's like okay this person's like these these wagon wheels have rutted in this road and i can kind of see how music goes how it works and how people used to tour but this whole year has been about there is any idea of patterns we're going to tabula rasa and just like brush the whole thing aside there is you know there's there's nothing and so it kind of made sense like i don't have i don't really know what to call myself in this circumstance i've

come up with this term of being a fig rather than a father i'm a fig so cool and so that's feeling right right now but who knows the child's gonna like have a mind and be like why fig it's it's kind of like a pre-mutation of parental figure but it also our child is called is named clementine and they he's you know going to make his own decisions but i kind of want it to be also a fruit too i guess so wow cool i look you know when my wife was pregnant with our first child i got to ask ramdas this question about how can i be a good dad this was and he got that big ramdas smile on his face and he goes dad is a role that's a role and son is a role child is a role and he would he said soul not role and you know and the the fig is beautiful because the trap of

i love thinking about literally in terms of a role like today i was just thinking like what if i wrote down as a character description my father my idea of what it means to be a father and one thing i realized is it's all things i got from women which is may i would be some combo mary poppins uh you know what i mean like the uh the the um sound of music i can't remember that that character's name but you know i'm saying like suddenly i realized this weird amalgam of qualities is in number one i am not going to be able to levitate with an umbrella it's a burdensome thing i'm crushing myself under all this this like crazy mix and releasing yourself from all of that i think is the best thing you could do as a as a parent and as a protector you know because this is

they just they deserve you not some character that you made up you know a thousand percent yeah and especially again kind of cycling back to being a musician i've been practicing on stages taking on a role and an avatar even with an alias right like this dateless name isn't something i ever felt like i was hiding in it was always aspirational to me the figure from ancient history but that being said i i i realized at a certain point that you know the roles we play for others aren't aren't serving us necessarily they're not our saints on our shoulders they're not our angels they're just other manifestations and creations that people project on us and they serve their purpose but they just don't serve the purpose of actually of kind of like overall fulfillment i know

for this kid i need to be a thousand percent or i need to be more there than um i have been for most others many others anyone else ever like you know the egocentric life i can really say fully you know with some shame that like i've gone in on just you know music was everything in it and like other people would guest star there'd be cameos but it's i don't know separate art from their the artist from their art is is is impossible it's all tangled yeah that's a big realization i didn't get that's a big but once you get it you get relief because if you get too caught up in that thing now what do you have you've got your family which i guess is just something that you do when you're not doing your art and then how the hell is your family going to be okay with that

because it's like wait what are we we're not supposed to be yours especially when the livelihoods ebbing from that when you know there's you know things things kind of the the the capitalism turns on those dimes just yeah you got to figure stuff but i don't know how i can't balance it i screw it up all the time i don't know how to balance it i'd go sometimes i feel like this is it hanging out with my child i now i feel the same feeling i have when i'm with my modular synths times a million at last i've moved in away from this awful hierarchy and then before you know it i'm like man i gotta get back in the i gotta go make something but i mean but this is you know we're we're patenting for for our child you're patenting for your child i'm i'm soon too but

equally they're they're have agency we have to give them that we have to give them release and to see your your joy your purpose that there's something beautiful about that not to you know not to speak out of turn and to give you release if you're if you're feeling ashamed about it if it's not part of your purpose right that's fine no thank you i can i've i've seen enough musicians just like tear themselves apart the pressure of it the like you know being 900 feet underwater and just feeling the weight above them both because they they felt the calling and they've been ruined on those rocks but also because you know they they get they people see them like you're constantly tattletailing on yourself for your art like you've picked up things that are like in

titles and and kind of in melodies but i'm sure you've perceived far deeper things about myself that i would never tell a soul but it's all there and so it's like i want to be so available to the kid but also recognizing that we're just patterning them up for their next bit so trying to accept those those parts and and you know it's still early days for us but i'm really excited about just being more of that person to them than maybe some others were in my life oh same and it gets listen i'm sorry if you've heard this a million times it just gets better and better and better until you start having these trippy like you know for me like these moments i i'm not sure about you i mean if i had to roll a dice i would guess that you've

had some experience with psychedelics and went you would roll a natural 20 if this is dnd this is you're credit you're credit i can't believe you're credit right there yeah that's why credit and you only just because i in one of i can't remember this song i'm listening to your song and some i'm realizing somehow he has done the thing that i thought was impossible which is you had created this specific sound that i only hear on nitrous oxide it's like a repetition echoey thing of three and i'm listening like that's that sound that i was like what how would we convert that to music i don't know if you intended to do that but regardless all those moments truly and it sounds so obvious and cliche they will they appeal in comparison to these moments

like sometimes i'll just look down and my child is whole forest is holding my hand and i'm looking at him and he's looking at me and i'm thinking this is how you this is how you end the dream of your life this little being walks you into the next dream the next realm then and it's mind blowing moments but it shouldn't be your and your car in front of the grocery store it's the most natural thing you were propagating you were everyone's sources that or there's so much sourcing of that as being the purpose and presence and and it you know it it sounds like you've threaded that needle and i'm excited to get on that that ferris wheel a bit more but also to understand that it sure it's it's the presence and purpose but also to see them

like in uh in see them look in their in the mirror and kind of have that self-recognition one that i never could contain myself even if i look in the mirror and i i recognize myself and i have consciousness it doesn't mean the same thing i'm still trapped in this until i see them do that i think it's nothing is really real i'm now you're freaking me out i can't believe you said that because i'm driving i'm listening to order of the golden dawn is i'm thinking what are we gonna talk about like how do i even talk how how do we how do we do this and uh the question that popped into my head that i'm like i'm there is no way i'm asking them this question because it's they are gonna think that i'm being just intentionally pseudo mystical but now because you're mentioning

mirrors i'm asking it if everything is a mirror what is it reflecting yeah so there's this concept called convolution right which is being able to um using the refraction or reflection of surfaces to be able to more realistically create it and it's oftentimes invoked in music with convolution reverb for instance brings forth the same physical space you create um and it can be digitized it can be uh it can be like the algorithm can then can then bring it back to life um and everything's a mirror in in sound everything's a reflective surface and we experience the world not as a as as um as mono ever right everything is even if you even if you don't feel yourself even if you have uh uh some change in your your um your ability where you're only hearing with one ear your body is a

resonator we're getting things elsewhere and so absolutely yes mirrors so i mean i i can be more affirmative i can i i can't be more it's just one of those things where the you know the modeling of the thing the way we we put ourselves you know i don't know if we can ever see ourselves we can't hear ourselves certainly every time you hear a recording of yourself you know that uncomfortable feeling where this is not my voice this is something else and there's a lot of science that but there's also that physical thing of like we we can't be our own shamanic guide right we can't we we there needs to be other there needs to be outside sources for us to to kind of both perceive ourselves but also just to be in this in the space and something i talk to my students a lot

about without yeah i don't talk to them about some of the aspects you've mentioned but you know not too fast at least but then some of the aspects some of those parts of when you're performing you aren't so much playing a melody or honoring the song or these things it certainly is happening but you were creating a smaller uh intimate space or a larger uh witnessable realm to which the sound is then procured and portrayed and that's the that's the trick often with performance is like narrowing and focusing or broadening and reaching and it sounds it sounds it sounds ambiguous in this way but you we've talked to any musician they can really talk to you exactly how they're able to like trap that thing into that space that that rests between the audience and them and that's

that corridor that hallway is this direct much faster than sound communication much faster than witnessable light and you end up mirror neurons are all kicking off and all these things are happening but you end up just making you know you're making a living room out of that concert hall or you're making the grand canyon out of someone's headphones and that so much goes back to convolution so much goes back to reflective surfaces and yeah it it's profound from a sound standpoint i don't know what it's like to see it though i'm not so good about the seeing thing i want to thank DHM detox for supporting the DTFH my wonderful brother-in-law came to visit us last night and he brought with him a bottle of LeFrog which is a very special kind of whiskey

tastes like you it was poured into the boot of one of those corpses they find in a bog that's been preserved by the peep moss it's very strong which is why i like DHM detox it's a vitamin for people who like to enjoy their drinks you can enjoy your holiday drinks this year and get back to doing what you love the next day without feeling awful no days wasted is here to help you maximize life's moments forget the sunday scaries feeling like garbage you just take two capsules after your first couple of drinks and it goes to work tens of thousands of people are using DHM detox as their drinking body DHM detox uses science to help boost your body's natural response to alcohol and help break down those toxins it's the perfect stocking stuffer or gift for your friends family

and even yourself remember holiday drinking season is upon us so stay prepared for all of the festivities so you don't have to struggle through the next day their holiday bundles with DHM detox and hydration replenisher are now live it's the ultimate recovery combo DHM detox it's a risk-free purchase so if you don't love it they'll refund you on your first box if you haven't tried it yet now is the time we've got you 25 off your first order and free shipping 25 percent free shipping in the u.s just head over to nodayswasted.co.com.co forward slash dunkin 25 and use promo code dunkin 25 and check out that's nodayswasted.co forward slash dunkin 25 this week only 25 percent off

are we stuck is it as far this is when i'm thinking of the in terms of the everything is a mirror then i start thinking well what happened did we make a mistake you know did it what did we stick our head in something we can't get our head out of here is this the situation i heard one of your previous uh guests talking about the renaissance as being this big pivot point and it's been presented to me before is this huge uh subjugation of the site where we we were previously a much more multi sensory at least according to the history books these like tomes that fall upon us from all cultures religion was something that was spoken was something that was given by sound there was no aspect to which you were ever supposed to see

the godhead you weren't supposed to really you know people would describe the figures but they would oftentimes come across in terms of the actual witnessable experience as a sound phenomena that's how you got it and that's how religion came when the the the orishas came to you they came through the drum you know it's like that stuff yes and and and so when it comes to the renaissance and we're like we're gonna put a mustache on that dude or a beard or we're gonna just say that they're a dude or you know like all these like yeah we're gonna we're gonna basically start to try to trap the godhead and also get like you know perspective forced perspective forced perspective that's the word forced perspective right and it's like like suddenly

sight becomes really dominant and everything else then gets a little bit murky oh yeah even though when you look at something it's flat you don't get dimension in sight no no no like those who might have synesthesia out there and like those who who see auras like good on you but for me you know color combines to these flat things and it's beautiful and I you know that's fine I like paintings and all that stuff but but sound comes to you in chords you you hear the chord of it you you get the the low lewd notes you get the bass aspect of it and then you get the high aspirational okay yeah you know and and so it's all happening at the same time whereas sight tends to be this flat thing wow yeah oh yeah like I see what you're saying it's like within the fractal of music you're

getting a more realistic depiction of the spectrum of consciousness then you're going to get and yeah I got you that's really beautiful and for us from the religious perspective especially like it makes sense that you know religion is this mad murky thing and you know it oftentimes gets accompanied by some sort of song or dance but it really you know when it comes to um how you how it gets propagated and evangelized it's usually through an image you know like uh that people raise on high and and tell you to like that's the thing that's the thing and yeah sound is such a you know it's coming from you coming at you from a lot of different directions and you're experiencing it both again in like your bowels like your bowels are rumbling but your your hair

is fizzing and your your you know all this extra phenomenon is happening and it's curing across your body and it's just so much more that thing in my mind of what now within may I ask you this within that packet of experience and as I'm listening to your music this is another thing I was thinking can do you buy into the idea that we can within the tracks of songs the spirit of that moment is is literally there do you buy into that idea that it's a it's some kind of um medium that is holding an infinite amount of psychic energy that every time you listen to it you release it into the world I would just point for me yes and I would point others to think not about this is my favorite song this is but think more about what the act of really listening and being

a listener is and how profound that is versus um the kind of weight of of you know like what our ego says is better or worse what we like more or less just being a good antenna and what the implications are for just being in vibration or being in tune or being like really feeling a part of the world and how profound psychically that is so yes and you know I all we can aspire towards in my mind is just being better listeners being more present being being more uh yeah kind of just being able to be pushed by our environment and being affected and and affecting and in turn because you know every every microphone is headphones right every every speaker is also a microphone that's just the property of transmission is they they function both ways wow it's easy to

get stuck in the microphone mode huh yeah like as an artist it's easy to get to two in the my two in the microphone and that you just you and then you it's my least favorite feeling man well but I mean that's the thing is you it's funny you mentioned that because one of the things I was struck by profoundly is after listening to episode on episode you're a good listener you're thank you there's a wash of people and some of them are like you know guest to guest they're like sometimes saying diametrically different things you know maybe in opposition slightly and you're taking it in and you're you're putting it through your filters but it's also able to be then a proxy to your listeners to someone like myself and it's it's uh

yeah it's a quite a gift and ability but also equally I can tell you're you're hearing them out you're hearing them you know thanks thank you I try well I try I try not to be there at all so that I can just purely be listening and get vibrated by it and then but uh yeah it's a I read here's some a side note I read this crazy buddha scripture and they were it's really cool it's like essentially like what was the buddha like literally like and so it's a list of all the observations regarding how he functioned and it's an aspiration for me and for you know because I love buddhism so an aspiration for you boy that'd be cool to be a buddha so you you but for I think most of us we have to work from the outside in or that's one way to do it right I'm not I'm

I don't know what enlightened even is but sure as shit I if I'm there it's not a great necessarily the best thing to happen uh I'm not there but I like to read what was an enlightened person like and we don't have that with the stories of Jesus or Mohammedism but with this there's a literally sentences like this this this but one of the things they said is he listened when someone was speaking he would move his whole body to look at the person and he listened with his whole body whoa listening with your body and this is a this is a one of these funny connections my my parents who are not musical people but they did work with John Cage a little bit uh John Cage who was a buddhist and one of John Cage's pieces and this is the piece that they enacted with with Cage um

this was in Ann Arbor some years ago uh yeah it's such a strange amount of connection but the piece was literally that you have chairs just skewed around and then you have a speaker that plays a song and by the end of the performance the the performer it tells the audience to notice that they've all turned the chairs to face the speaker they've all turned and face their bodies towards because that's you go to a concert or especially like DJ performances it's the most random thing DJs especially in our modern DJ culture they're just you know spinning records sometimes they are the mc of the party so to speak they are the the person who's arbitring uh how you're supposed to move or kind of react to the music but oftentimes they are lost in their their turntables or their

you know their sauce or whatever and but audiences no matter where you put the sound system they'll face the performer they're the audience could have their back to the speakers but they're facing this random person who's basically blowing on you know on dials or spinning plates and like there's no reason to do so but that's the human you are you know yes you're there with the performed and yeah if the booty didn't mind why shouldn't we you know we could try i mean yeah but it's you know because the that that when i the concept of listening itself you can get compressed in your head you think listening is your ears and and so now you're listening with your yeah and then suddenly and with music too like when you're listening with your whole body it's it's really

wild to and to realize just how intimate you have suddenly become with someone that you might never meet how they're they've ballooned around your entire identity now here's let me ask a few more weird questions here are you a time traveler is datal as a time traveler that's it's funny i i not uh so not consciously but i do feel so much buffeted by these like great like solar winds or waves or energy that uh i i like didn't understand and much maligned as a young person and then subsequently like well i'm standing on the shoulders of giants who are standing on the shoulders of giants who are standing on the shoulder and so and so forth and you it's hard not to feel that pressure wave coming from below behind and yet at the same time the future seems

so infinitely far away and yet i've lived long enough now to per proceed through both i i i um so absolutely not i am just a person now and here and yet at the same time i i you know you you play a note and that note has such incredible going for it and i'm not saying the the the perceived loudness of the thing i'm not saying the db's of it i'm saying the the fact that you are playing in this like primordial soup of frequency and especially how we as people are so built like you know we have a part of our brain that just handles music like it has a special role to play in our physiology our fight or flight mechanism mostly here to save us supposedly from like danger when you hit a base note of certain frequencies that that same fight or flight is kicking but

you it's full of excitement and exuberance and you could those same things that tell you to run to run for your life or telling you to dance for your life it's it's so confused and so it's like you play in that a little bit and you realize like no no like where time is kind of a construct like oh this is a random fact that i adore before time got formalized in our like 24 hour kind of system there was a lot of playfulness in that space people were trying to figure it out there's these clocks in japan you can find um and you can find them elsewhere too but these ones particularly in japan i i've got a chance to witness is the time changes according to what time of year it is so in the winter time gets very short in the summer time gets very long

because the days are shorter and they are i mean like it sounds like okay well they're not they're just not measuring scientifically or no no no but it's experiential it makes all the sense and so music functions much the same way you you listen to your favorite song or you listen to an important thing and time is irrelevant you are in that five minutes that our passes things happen unwitnessed it just goes by and then you are in an uncomfortable situation with music you don't care for and it's grueling every second is like yeah is a yeah is the metronome of your own doom occurring and you can see the end growing nearer that's a seinfeld baseline for me that baselik and seinfeld slows time to a crawl a hell crawl if there is a hell and i'm going there

gates of hell i know that's the first thing i'm gonna hear seinfeld baseline yeah i don't know why it eats me alive uh but i don't know why so maybe something happened to me while i was listening to it i can't remember but tick tick no it's aggressive you hear that aggression those thumbs that that the off pick yeah no i feel you i feel you the aggression of the seinfeld baseline it is it's aggressive it's it's spidery it's an aggressive spider skittering out of that sitcom now i want to this is interesting we're talking about time because another thing i was thinking that i wanted to talk with you about was in terms of the chronology of an artist's output in the world and do you think that the algorithm that introduced me to you thankfully is also

scrambling our ability to really understand an artist by dishing out tracks from albums that were supposed to listen from track one to the end and not the fourth track and then another album from three years before and another album you know four years later well let's look at the the previous paradigms the previous algorithms there was one algorithm which was the paola system where you would only hear what the dj was paid to play or this the circumstance was allowed to give you and oftentimes the the levers of power came down to individuals with that would wield that that you know that that sway in very specific ways to get their artists to win and other artists to lose and there was people like moondog who would play on the street are seen as being these like

you know incredible gifted people i don't want to use that g term again but like you know but then we're you know homeless and like you know not not necessarily uh getting the flowers in their day only subsequently neither here nor there but that paola system and then there's the the uh you get told by your friend your loved ones your you that system where you know like the the mouth to your ear and how that still exists but it's depreciated we're all a little separated the the transmission through the the digital the digital lines get muddled and we don't have that many systems yet to do so and now our current paradigm which is not in the vessel of a record right like spotify's first act even before it it's done all the things it's done was just erase the label

from right no more labels no more barely even a genre we're gonna make up genre terms we're gonna make up like these non real things that just serve our purpose and and other systems are kind of similar like the first thing they do is just redirect our attention and and kind of undo so now spotify doesn't even like to deal with records anymore now it's just a playlist and of course you're old enough to experience mixed tapes to have like a lot of one you know craft and like like pour over like the idea of like them and the idea of you and find musical building blocks that would somehow build bridges between the two on like on this gooey tape substance that would look kind of you know do something else magical uh alchemy deal with the with the sound and and

those formats then yeah i mean like like so i basically i feel like the art of now has to be starting to take into consideration that albums don't exist and that we should be thinking in this art that is kind of beautifully going to incorporate other people's songs as part of your art just by they're going to be put side by side now we can't determine that i i'm not one to be able to determine what is to the left of me and what is to the right of me but certainly i can be grateful for the fact that it brought you me and others however that happened and the fact you caught a live wire with me somehow i i'm awestruck that that was even possible same and and and so the like i kind of going back to the Anthropocene it's like this the album now is this construct of all

of recorded history and you just wait for your your shuffle to come into focus how weird and yeah it's it's it's kind of beautiful in some ways but it does undo the intentionality that i had like i'm an album artist i love making albums i love telling stories and secrets and spilling and like and kind of putting things like you mentioned all the the harry potter like i only use that because it was such a useful metaphor for people my age and younger who are you know the listeners like i'm i am listening to myself and other people oftentimes the people who are involved are younger and it's like it's this perfect metaphor it's snuck in this back door of consciousness all this magical talk and of course it's like problematic in so many ways like from the person

who did it to the way that it's commercialized but it planted a seed of like so much power and potence and like the the imagery and all these things are just like useful symbology that just it's now symbols it's now you know words are words it's those things that we can utilize and kind of take elsewhere right yes and so the album is undone and we're forced to be now all swimming in this techno mancy right it's just like playing it's the resonant frequency of the algorithm is is just a is a weird harsh scream of a modem but we can kind of do you know phone freakers are you familiar with this term you mean people who hacked phones in the old days captain crunch yeah totally so there was myths and legends that you could sing

the note the combination of chords that would give you a quarter right like seemingly impossible frequencies that aren't reproducible and yet you have you have people who you know did so they found ways of modulating themselves to fit that vessel in impossible you know like the reason why the frequencies where they were is because they you know the the telephone company model was like this is impossible but ingenuity dictates yeah exactly we'll figure this out we'll get there so so two things one uh what you it's I love to me we like before your recording unfortunately you mentioned being a teacher now and and I was telling you if I was in a class and had professor Daedalus I would just you I would think I am in the secret

society now or I would think it is a simulation this you can't have this wonderful a professor here but two I think you are functioning as a teacher through your music regardless and that part of what you I've been learning from you from listening to your music is that crafting of an album and and and and also it that you're just a very active listening to more than one track from any of your albums that I've listened to so far and realizing this that I've I'm seeing little little I'm seeing into a story like you know what I mean that oh this is like halfway through some adventure he's having through via this album or this is somewhere within a teaching in the album itself and then seeing how you're fractalizing the album itself that the track names the album cover

all of it is a puzzle box of it's some beauty that you're giving us so so you already taught me that just from your artfulness related to your creation so I think it is possible to make it to break through the algorithm and invite people to go deeper well and I appreciate that and I'll speak to both I so am in awe that that that it exists the possibility that that could still happen not to say that I'm I I still you know obviously make music I still believe in the magic of it I still am I can't not but sometimes it feels like the world gets so narrow and especially not playing a show for a year not being in the midst of that kind of idiot easy immediate magic of of like the summoning that happens amongst a group of people all experiencing

sound phenomena it's like so evident in that and so like this year being like all online all away has felt very disruptive towards these kind of continuance so to hear that from you means the world but as a as a as a kind of in 2004 I released a record called Agent Agent and I really really really went in on this concept of every song has like specific meaning and narrative direction and every sample has like this like this alliterative nature and this metaphor and it has like this this kind of overarching spy theme and so every sample came from like a spy place and it was like I made a puzzle box I made an escape room yeah no one got it it was totally like one over all kinds of heads and it just isn't like and and I not to say that I mean I guess

that's the thing is I was foolish enough to think there was something gettable and I was also naive enough to do it and I love that that I've never stopped but also equally there is this thing about like well there was a more powerful narrative than one I ever could construct and so it's kind of good to just make way like be artful and be a craftsperson and you know the artifice has place in in the artwork there's a reason these all these words use the same like Greek you know these Greek shared phrases or whatever these Latin words but it is the kind of thing of just like gotta get out of the way more can't have this ego trip to think that you're responsible wholly it's something it really the music is only it's not happening because of what I'm doing it's happening

between us you got something that I could never have intended yeah I was trying to put something forward but it's it's totally that middle place between us listen I you I'm glad I'm glad you did the puzzle box that I got that I also I'm terrible at escape rooms you never want to do an escape room with me let me tell you if we're doing an escape room we ain't getting out that's for sure I don't I'm not good at them I get frustrated and I just they just make me feel really dumb but your music doesn't make me feel dumb but it does it does inspire a sense of awe or of like oh wow this is a this there's a lot going on here and then that's exciting because I want that I we know we don't just listen to no one if you like a song you don't listen to it

once you're not like well that was great like people you know or even a movie or whatever but which is why I'm just listening to order of the golden dawn over and over and like oh yeah okay I go ahead please so I tell you when I core beliefs that really plays into this thing of repeat listening I truly believe and this there there is some signs that backs us up but the listener affects affects the listen to what your your act of listening not only affects your memory of the song but in some quantum level will change forever the song itself wow right it plays upstream it moves in a certain direction and holy shit so the whole system is is the whole system works together now can we take a pause for a moment yes there is a I'm sorry a

fig duty there you have to do some fig duty friend yeah no problem let's pause I'll pause it right now okay this idea of listening the listener affecting music a song on the quantum level has so many implications that it was are spinning through my mind right now but let's talk about the first one being what that means is that you can never anytime you're listening to a song you're listening to a completely new version of it that has been slightly shifted by other listeners that have just listened to it or listened to it during the life of the song am I reading absolutely absolutely and you could be subtle and you could think of it as being profound sometimes there is this like quality of something being at our edge of our experience

or like you might hear the whispers your spirit should be listening to this this is important or this is this is terrible or whatever and then it comes into your life and it seems like okay this is this is the thing but of course it's not simply it's not simply that thing that was once was now is there's this culmination of it and so you could look at it as being like that there is this kind of aspect of our of our perceived notion of done and not done but then the mandala effect is constantly happening with our the way we we see music and it's you know a mandala effect obviously is a little bit chintzy and cheesy and wonderfully like phenomena but music does this all the time things that had no effect on us you know the songs of our childhood suddenly are the things

we want to be buried to or you know things that that how religious purpose and we were immune to becoming meaningful and it can it can be like this is a listener but equally we're we're we're equally buffeting our environment to be to be very same and similarly so i i use so i'm an artist and resident with seddie right that's why that was one of my questions what does it mean so part of that to me is that you know there's this phenomenology of like receiving transmission from the universe and we're like sifting through the sands looking for aspects of life or intelligence but in many ways to me the the effect of of this listened and listened to means that probably before we started listening to the stars there was no aliens the moment we started listening

we created life wow to me on a universal scale if we're really scanning the skies and we're pushing back our expectation to find means that there is and and probably you know like just that the numbers dictate that there probably is like there is life out there right just the yeah you know there's just yeah chances but equally i think until we started to listen it we we we increased our chances some some factor just by looking because that exact effect on a quantum level provides the possibility you are so amazing i was just laying in bed the other night and in as i was falling asleep i was thinking oh my god it's not like i need some massive radio telescope to communicate with these beings i can do it right now and then i thought whoa whoa i don't know what if i don't

want to like then you know that was a moment of i think this is why to dive back into like magic the magic symbol set this is why we need protective circles this is why because i think you know yes what you're saying now i understand why you're an artist in residence at seddie number two i love what you're saying because you're brave enough to say it i i i get scared to say i'm not scared to say much but sometimes i just think uh people are going to think i've gone manic or something but the to me it's like oh yeah for sure if you want to communicate with aliens it's going to be through music way before radio telescope and that's how they're going to talk to us and they're going to want to talk through anybody who's willing to let them talk through them you know like they're

they're not they're going to let if you are into being one of their receivers they're going to be delighted i would say uh i'm right yeah i would totally agree and i think just to circle back to the magic you know science whatever you want the first spell you always learn is protection you always learn words first you always you know figure out what the evil eye which way it's coming from or whatever you want to say that's just ground ground rules those that's that's where things have to start it's the hand washing and magic it's like you if you're going to do surgery wash your hands it's it's not a crazy idea at all is it that's no i mean there's a reason why it's built into tradition and that you know it took four years night and gale to make it a common science practice

of washing your hands the person from the light brigade which is another record of mine i know and i wanted to ask you about that what's the library what do when you say library what is what is the library the charge of the library is a poem you know uh alfred tenison uh which was all about the kramian war which was effectively the schism of the russian orthodoxy right like you you have this other mystical tradition things like baba yaga and the the meeting so i played some shows in the ukraine and it it really opened me up to so yeah i i don't want to i am a tourist i no matter how much i've toured i am inevitably not going to be a person who can have lived an experience i barely have lived an experience in this american expedition right like this is

right but uh going someplace and witnessing firsthand some of these things and especially the way that that these different traditions show up in the way people process celebration the way that they kind of in you know like they they in tone their magic so to speak or just you know our present is is heavy heavy heavy and thusly um yeah like i went to the ukraine and like got a big transmission of like the eastern mystical mysticism and again it happened in a dark dirty rave but it's just as present there as it is maybe in a big hall of can you talk about the light then a little bit the liper gate a little bit like that then yeah so so the the light brigade was was was a was a poem again by aphrodisiac but it was

specifically about the feudal charge of the it was about the crimine war was basically one of the many victorian expeditions so i made these records about three year wars in the victorian period i made one about the the crimine war i made one about the righteous uh the the righteous harmony was about the uh boxer rebellion and then i also made one a record called the bitter einders which was all about the second boar war and seemingly things chosen arbitrarily but they all have this ended empire feeling they all have this like crumbling which i feel a lot of kinship too with our moment this kind of like being everywhere in the world trying to have a voice trying to be domineering but speaking usually really at right angles to whatever is happening

in the spiritual community in the kind of psychic feeling and also uh this kind of idea of overwhelming magic that's abundant and apparent but also kind of doesn't function in the society like we choose but anyways the light brigade kind of really talking about those eastern magical traditions but also the feudal nature of like throwing bodies at the problem oh yeah and we do that constantly yeah i i love that you're talking about you're using that in terms of the east that's one of the ways i've always seen seen them i and yeah they will definitely show up at a dirty rave that's for sure and i think they like the idea of like on chicken legs it feels like oh this is odd like it was real the grim's fairy tales and like obviously pulling back from way older traditions

and way older kinds of magic that are just like a little four into our ears but you go to a place and you see the chicken legs and you're like oh like you know this is this is visceral this is happening it just it just doesn't it doesn't fit the format that we've you know it doesn't fit cyberpunk 2077 but it's it's all the same thing just oh cyberpunk now let me ask you this do you how and i know we only have a little bit of time so forgive me if i'm keeping you too long do you feel like it's futile do you have a sense that this is like we're just you know i don't know throwing sand into the ocean here or something like because how is it that there is this never ending compelling feeling that there is a deep powerful benevolent beautiful radiant magic in

every single moment that is using people in any way they feel like being used to manifest into this world of darkness do you think it's futile do you or do you think this renaissance that people keep talking about is around the bend or somewhere in between absolutely 100 not futile just like i said earlier entropy is the overwhelming force that disintegration of matter is what's what we're up against and so every time we offer anything sincerely the universe shudders so so that's that's our goal that's the purpose and why else do anything right unless you're yeah you're kind of gracing up against the divine so god bless you thank you so much for this conversation i'm so lucky that you are on my show thank you for making music i'm sorry for this year for you and musicians

it's need for we needed this we so needed to shake it up i mean i i talk to the students all the times about this potent possibility that's going to happen where there'll be in a transformed world but it's not just and it's hard to speak on this directly there won't be the same concert halls there won't be the same opportunities there'll be different opportunities and there'll be money to be made but even more so you're gonna have needful people who are devoid they've been left you know they've been dredged of this like easy to access spiritualism that is so abundant in your ears constantly in your body we have like this you know your bones are are activated by you know healed by the purring of these cats that are as songs and and they've been left without you know

touched certainly but sound so so much and you know even conversing with you for this length of time is so foreign for me like i haven't had a conversation other than the power link of my baby or my partner and the occasional zoom call with my students like it's it's so different so when we get together in person as i know we'll do at some point Duncan it's going to happen i know it and and you know and hear the the graveliness of your voice not just the kind of weird ones and zeros that were provided with today it is yeah it's going to be really powerful and people are going to be overwhelmed and the people talk about how once this is all done how much harder it's going to be and it certainly is the case but again the reason to be an artist is to curve the world

a bit more artful and what an opportunity to do so coming up like i don't want to paint uh paint roses where there's shit or you know etc but obviously that's the role of an artist to degrees is to is to to to kind of find those things too god please definitely promise me we get to meet in person one day i gotta hear some of this modules i'm a modularist too i've been yeah i'm dying for this stuff any electricity i'm good lord i mean to me i drive by the mog factory and my body just goes oh god i'm at least i'm close to it yeah it's so listen uh we will definitely be together in person and hopefully sooner than later and uh in the meantime will you let people know where they can find you or ways they can connect with you the the easiest way and and this is one of

those funny things when i first picked my name i really wanted to aspire towards datalus the father vicaris that was my intention but i spelled it wrong i just got it wrong and slash got it right i spell it d a e d e l us and that isn't to say that's wholly wrong there's certain british spellings and obviously the datalus that shows up in in uh like uh ulysses and in portrait of the artist young man uh that's spelled a little bit different as well so datalus is a kind of an open ended term but if you type in d a e d e l us and wherever you know whatever portals hopefully it'll spit out something that i've done and if you are inclined shows are where i feel the most made real but the records have something there too and even more so if if any of that art

gives you a feeling out there those listeners or yourself i am so interested in hearing the the the clap back the slap back of that reverb is way more interesting to me the things that you know your art your sound your resonance is way more interesting to me than than hearing my songs again so i'm i'm i'm also a listener a deep and avowed listener myself harikrishna my friend thank you so much all the links you need to find them are going to be at dunkin trustle.com thank you friend thank you much thanks to datalus for appearing on this episode of the d t f h all the links you need to find datalus are going to be at dunkatrustle.com much thanks to feels d h m detox and express vpn for sponsoring this episode if you're

interested in any of those products you can find the offer codes at dunkatrustle.com and thank you to you for listening i'll see you next week with a beautiful conversation with discordian saint vermin supreme don't want to wait you can find it over at patreon.com forward slash d t f h i love y'all and i'll see you next week bye you've been making better decisions for your busy family for years and now little by little you're making decisions for yourself like snacking a little better going a little further sleeping a little deeper we're here to make that journey easier and even more rewarding with akhmi's new sincerely health platform featuring nutrition plans prescription reminders and more sign up in

the akhmi mobile app to earn up to twenty five dollars in grocery rewards visit akhmimarkets.com slash help for more details a good time starts with a great wardrobe next stop jc penny family get-togethers to fancy occasions wedding season two we do it all in style dresses suiting and plenty of color to play with get fixed up with brands like lis clayborne worthington stafford and jay furar oh and thereabouts for kids super cute and extra affordable check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp.com all dressed up everywhere to go jc penny