Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 420: East Forest

Episode Date: January 23, 2021

East Forest, extraordinary artist, maker of beautiful music, and wonderful being re-joins the DTFH! You can learn more about East Forest and hear his music at EastForest.org. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site. Feals - Visit feals.com/duncan and get 50% off and FREE shipping on your first order. Amazon Pharmacy - Get your prescriptions delivered with FREE 2-Day Delivery! You can learn more at Amazon.com/DuncanRX.

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If this is your first time, hello, wow. I can't believe I get to talk to you, to meet you in this way. What a weird way for us to meet. Hello, I love you. Your ears are looking good. Don't be afraid to clean them. It's going to increase your joy of music, and also there's something satisfying about pulling

big clumps of greasy earwax out of your head from time to time. I've been getting my mind blown by an audio book I'm listening to called The Heart of Compassion by Dilgo Kinsey Rinpoche. Not Dildo, you depraved blasphemer. But Dilgo, like guh, it sounds like a hobbit. Dilgo Kinsey Rinpoche. How could you even think that sounds like Dildo?

What is wrong? Are you kidding? Why would that even pop into your head? The book is fantastic, not just because it shines a light on a wild form of Buddhism, because there's so many different types of Buddhism. Like you look at the various forms of Buddhism, and many of them don't even seem like they're

part of the same world or religion. But also because the narrator voice sounds like a sophisticated James Bond villain who seems to actually be chastising you from time to time by enunciating things like, human incarnation is a precious thing. So why are you wasting your time? It's really good.

I like being chastised. Feels like I'm an X-man being scolded by Charles Xavier. But this book is great. The Heart of Compassion, Dilgo Kinsey Rinpoche. It's just the wildest stuff you've ever heard. It's so psychedelic. And they talk about various realms and Buddha fields. Just that term sounds cool, Buddha field,

and humans that have dissolved their identity completely and have become emanations of Buddhas with beautiful sounding names like Avalokiteshvara, the Buddha of Compassion. But to me, the concept of being an emanation of something is worth thinking about, because if you can be an emanation of a Buddha, you can also be an emanation of other things.

It's not guaranteed that you're just going to be an emanation of some enlightened thing. It troubles me to imagine some future where you can use an app to scan your psychological makeup, and it tells you how many ideas that you have that are actually original ideas, and how many have just been put there by corporations or countries, like little data eggs that hatch thoughts that you

subconsciously associate with the corporation that put them there, and they intentionally did it, because they knew that was a thing that happened. Fuck, I'm an emanation of Starbucks. The majority of what I think is just endless iterations of things I'm mindlessly read on Starbucks cups. But also, if you're looking for a pick me up, the book is great, because it really emphasizes how incredible it

is that we've taken on a human incarnation. So that's an automatic win. It's congratulating you on something that maybe you kind of wonder if you fucked up doing. Do you ever do everything like, man, maybe this? What were the other choices before I was born? Was this the right thing? Yes.

According to this, it was not only the right thing, but it's the rarest of incarnations, rarer than being like a super luminous God, living a pleasure-ridden life in a celestial dimension. How fucking cool is that? Being human is the spiritual equivalent of being accepted into an Ivy League college. Most souls are in endless incarnational cycles

that flip between being mollusks to maybe a trout. And every few million years maybe, just maybe a monkey, but never a human. That's rare. So the very fact that you have arms and legs and a nipple, I only have one nipple in the center of my chest. Maybe you have two. And that beautiful neocortex of yours

means that you have been doing some kind of amazing work. And even if the current version of you feels like a rotten failure, you're not. You're a human. And the odds of being human are impossibly slim. And on top of that, you've incarnated in a realm where there have been Buddhas, which is also insane, because sometimes you can incarnate in a place

where there aren't Buddhas and you don't, there isn't. The work hasn't already been done. Like they did the work for us. They went into the caves. They let lice feed on them to give them sustenance. They went out into the snow. We don't have to do that. We don't have to do it.

We don't have to like get, we don't have to do that thing. We're like sitting on a cold fucking rock for 15 years straight, drinking stagnant water maybe eating your pubes. They did the work. We don't have to. So on top of being human, you get to incarnate in a place where thousands and thousands and thousands of years

of meditation have already been put in to the technology of enlightenment. So that's pretty cool. Congratulations. It's like having a human incarnation and encountering these kinds of philosophies that you find in these books, it's like beyond rare. It would be like being alive when aliens visit the earth.

It's like if suddenly ships of light descended from the sky and shared with all people the technology of hundreds of thousands of years. It's like that if you get lucky enough to stumble upon Buddhism. So if you're looking for a win, there you go. You're human, you did it. You're here and now all you have to do is sort of,

well, I don't know, you know, I haven't finished the book but I'll figure it out. The main thing is that it invites you to get enlightened. Instead of it being like a kind of either one a thing you shouldn't talk about, what you hear sometimes weirdly in spiritual communities like, go get enlightened, whatever. But it's actually kind of a joyful thing,

which is, yeah, get enlightened, do it. You should get enlightened because if you get enlightened, you're gonna benefit everybody. And that's the reason to get enlightened. Like it, you know, like also it sort of acknowledges the possibility that you can like get enlightened just cause you wanna feel good instead. Like you don't have to do the thing it's recommending,

which is like get enlightened to benefit all sentient beings. You, if you want, you can just get enlightened because you wanna enjoy, you know, video games or you're just tired of being like constantly sort of eaten alive by the termites of anxiety that gnaw at your inner core whenever you're awake. That's okay too. But the idea is get enlightened to help yourself to start off

but according to this book, when a being gets enlightened, people living nearby, like in the city, they start healing and crops grow and miracles happen. You might not even know why you're having such an incredible life, but it's because you moved in next to an enlightened person. It's that powerful. So that's pretty cool.

I really love it. Highly recommend it. Delgo Kenci Rinpoche, the heart of compassion. Friends, got a great podcast for you. We're gonna jump right into it, but first this. Much thanks to Squarespace for supporting this episode of the DTFH. We owe Squarespace a big thanks,

not just because they've created a place where you can go to easily make a website of such earth-shattering beauty that legions of erotic angels will visit you in the night. And make you come so hard just to thank you for your beautiful website. Happens to me because I have a website that has received over 33 American Figaro Awards from the Figaro Association.

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And if you like it and you're ready to launch, use offer code Duncan and you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Thank you, Squarespace. Are you ready to experience what it's like to turn into an interplanetary free-floating clitoris? Do you wanna know what that would be like to be a clitoris a thousand times larger

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Experience the vibratory ecstasy that a celestial clitoris would feel upon getting sucked into a black hole. It's all there for you at patreon.com, forward slash DTFH. We've got a weekly meditation, journey into boredom. And every Friday we have a family gathering where we all hang out. But not just that, there's a ton of additional content

just waiting for you on the other side of hell. Patreon.com, forward slash DTFH. Today's guest is an extraordinary artist who makes some beautiful music. I got lucky enough to see him perform live at a Ram Dass retreat. And it was one of those moments where somehow I wasn't already high,

which is somewhat rare. And I found myself tripping just by listening to East Forest's music. And I was looking around and there were all these hardcore hippies who were also like, what the fuck, this is intense, man. He's a wonderful being who I've become friends with over a few years of hanging out at these Ram Dass retreats.

And he's made some really beautiful music that sort of wraps around some conversations he had with Ram Dass. All of these existed eastforest.org. So head over there after you listen to this wonderful conversation with the great East Forest. ["Welcome to the East Forest"]

Welcome, welcome on you that you are with us shake hands, no need to be blue Welcome to you Welcome, welcome Welcome to the East Forest Welcome back to the DTFH God bless you, it's so good to see you

Yeah, brother It's been too long, you know our association has been in the grace of those Ram Dass retreats which I don't know about you, but and maybe there's no way to enjoy a thing like that without kind of taking it for granted Oh dude, you know you're living large

when the way we saw each other was in Maui Consistently multiple times It's like yeah, here we are in Maui again Yeah, with Ram Dass And it's vaguely work for us It's work related It's so funny, now that I think about it I don't think I've ever seen you outside of

a resort in Maui It's so weird, we're lucky Well, you were asking before I started recording about these keyboards I don't know if you can see it We got a Mogue one right here That is a Juno one of six Classic

A Mogue Voyager, a Mogue Sub 37 over there And you can't see it but maybe I can get it so you can see it, hold on Is this really why you moved to Asheville to be next to the Mogue? Yeah, so you could maybe intern there

This is, I don't know, these are my models Yo, yo, yo, yeah, fun That's my Euro Rack there Yeah, basically I just love making music So this is what I do when I'm not doing podcasts But any great musician

like yourself, and I mean that I know my real musician friends they've simplified I can see you've got a piano It looks like you've got a couple of keyboards back there I've got a couple of pianos which I have two

and one's an old 102-year-old grand over here and then I've got this upright This is more like felted out kind of felt sound, very soft Wow But I've been getting into like analog, preamps and mics

and I upgraded a lot of that stuff this year This is an old carport like for an RV or a sailboat and I just turned it into a studio in the back of Radha's house How cool is that? When I, when we were in Maui

and I finally got to see you perform live It was so intense that it reminded me of any other time I'd taken a psychedelic without thinking about taking a psychedelic Without thinking How many times does that happen in your life? Probably a fair number

You know, not that you don't know your Like when I smoked MEO-DMT for the first time You know, and everyone's telling you about MEO-DMT It takes you to the heart of the universe It eradicates you It's so powerful

Be careful But I was younger then So I'm like, ah, come on You can't be stronger than us What's the universe? What's, come on What's the center of the universe? Come on, I can handle that

But the difference between the type of psychedelic that you your art is and a psychedelic that you inhale or eat is that when you inhale or eat a psychedelic you have some sense of a timeline some idea of a process and it won't, even if it takes,

the strength takes you by surprise the effect, unless you're completely nuts is should, should You should know you're going to get high But when I was watching you perform at this Ram Dass retreat and, you know, gradually getting increasingly high, having not taken anything

and looking around at all the people who also, they're like, oh, it's a show He's forced it, maybe they haven't heard you before and then looking around at all these old hippies ripping out and everybody's looking at each other like, what the fuck is happening to us?

Radha is going around spraying Macing people with essential oils yes, around the room and little bells This makes me miss performing It's, I mean, God, the last time was February, it's, you know, it's been a while my friend, like, I'm, I'm

I'm legitimately worried that like I'll forget how all this shit works You know, it's like you get used to not traveling around and playing and part of that is nice Yeah, that's the I know it's both, it's a both end but I have to admit, like

I feel way more grounded but I also miss that kind of wild connection of I mean, it's, it's crazy, as you know being like, I'm sure when you're doing stand-up it's a crazy feeling at moments like this sort of energetic conversation with other people

yes, wild, it's a high it's a wild, wild feeling and it's a privilege to be able to sometimes get to those places Yeah, I wonder if you could help me understand what kind of

thought goes into your performance or what kind and I don't mean like the planning out of the songs or the technical stuff I mean was there a time when your audience wasn't tripping out

Oh hell yeah, dude oh man, I've had some horrible LA was one of the worst performances of my life, like when I was just trying to do first off I was trying to figure out who the hell I was and what my own voice was and I didn't really know

so I was trying a lot of different things and so I remember doing a show in LA and it was like at some club I don't remember but I was in like the back room of the club and it was this like little triangle shaped room

I was first on and there were like five people there who none of them were there to see me they were just sort of have a drink and one guy was super drunk standing right in front of me with his back to me like having a conversation with this lady and I'm doing my

thing and it was heartbreaking and I just remember feeling like this will never work I feel like you guys took my soul and just like ate it and then shitted out and then gave it back to me and I remember sitting out in front of the door

guy and he's just like yeah that was rough and I'm like yeah man I'm feeling it this is a low point in my life but I've had many of those but did something shift

or was there a moment when you realized that your music was causing like powerful shifts in the consciousness of the audience and was that even your intention yeah

you know what my friend it started because it started in the psychedelic space playing for people journeying and in those spaces it was overwhelming like oh we're in this really amazing incredible space I just never thought that would translate

into a commercial space like where people pay tickets and they're just sitting there and I'm like they would I assumed they would be incredibly bored and they would they want to be entertained and I have to do this and that and so what shifted for me is when I stopped trying

to do the thing I thought I needed to do and I actually just went back into the ceremony space and that's when it really started to light up because and it was it took I don't know eight years for me to really trust that

where it's like look you can play the more heart felt it is the more you're imbibing it with that psychedelic openness actually the better and more engaging it is when before I thought the less engaging it was because

two ambience or two whatever man like right and I feel like I've more room to go in that direction I just need to trust myself and to be honest I don't quite enough but to do it fully improvisation Lee like that and just

just just be like I will just see what comes through and hopefully that's interesting to you and that to me would be the ultimate and I do that and that's what I do in ceremonies in these little private ceremonies and that to me is where it's not about me it's about

it goes on these waves where sometimes it's tapped in sometimes it's not you just ride it and that's what I started doing in these virtual ceremonies during the pandemic quote-unquote publicly streaming it on YouTube I'd never done that before and I play for three or four hours I'm like well this is what we do in the

ceremonies I just never done that publicly the ceremonies that you that you do for folks who are new to East Forest they involve still assignment is it okay to say that of course yeah

and so when I release the music for mushrooms a soundtrack for the psychedelic practitioner album I was clearly putting a stamp on it be like this is what it is that's what it's for this is how it's made yeah you have an album designed for people

you know these days imagine if I said if I'm like well actually it's not for that that's just that's just a clever title it is nothing to do with that please nothing to see here Jen my music was made to be like fine Jen the the the so

um do you have a source where you're getting like the the chapters of the ceremony do you have a teacher that you learned how to conduct one of these ceremonies

with or are you how did you learn how to do an acoustic mushroom ceremony well I'd have to say I learned the most from just the mushrooms themselves but my it's all sort of a direct shamanic lineage of learning from other ceremonies

and so I would just participate in indigenous ceremonies that are like a Lakota sweat lodge if you do a traditional one traditionally that's the only way they are have been done that way for thousands of years exactly that way and so you know

that this is a kind of technology they've developed over many many years and you can learn from that and if you go to a certain ayahuasca ceremonies Peruvian or uh the San Pedro in the mountains um you start to see some

similarities in in like kind of what's working different personalities of traditional shamans you just learn like oh this guy is very playful and there's certain elements it's like I appreciate that as almost as a performer like that's an interesting thing he's doing or musically

though the one shaman is just just a rattle which is intense but I learned a lot just about rhythm or one guy plays all these different instruments there's other traditional shaman and none of them are using any words it's just music all of these things pretty much is the music

the central vehicle that not just guides a ceremony but maybe you've experienced this like it really becomes the space you're in like literally you're just in this musical architecture and that's like a room you're in and then when the song shifts now you're in a new space

that like is the journey I've never experienced I've never done any ceremony with psychedelics are you kidding me oh my god I feel like now I just want to fly out and just play for you in the fam and just dive into that space it's so beautiful

it could be something we do when this is over I think I'm ready to go somebody's taken psychedelics as many times as I have it's really weird how I feel blocked related to going into an actual formal ceremony I feel that

I feel that completely I think that bravery encourages a really central element to stepping into a journey because otherwise if it was just a pill that you could take with not many downsides and everyone got enlightenment first off

anyone could do it it's sort of like there'd be no point and that's the essence of the human journey itself is that if there wasn't grist for the mill if there wasn't friction there would be no point to being here like that is the point yeah right

as shitty as it is the normal friction of everyday life is one thing but the stories that I've heard and you just the way you just described it are so profoundly weird

which is this relationship between space and music that seems to be illuminated via plant medicine and also this seeming

form of navigation that a group of people are sharing an experience that's another weird part of it which doesn't match current understandings of subjective consciousness it implies a form of group mind

telepathy whatever you want to call it but that the shaman acts as this guide more than I'm guiding you through your own emotional escape but I'm taking you into this place that is

so odd to me and I wonder if you could tell me what your theories are regarding what is that place where is that place I don't know and I don't see myself

as a traditional shaman I see myself as like a guy who's got his hand on the wheel of the ship that we're all on and I'm not controlling the storms or what comes up on the seas but I'm definitely in charge of steering that ship

and I'm steering it largely with music and there seems to be something about a group of people I mean we know this just there's whatever I don't know how to define it but we feel what a vibe of a room is

there's sort of an energy to it and other people this is just a heightened sense of that and I've always told people like look this is a small event whatever we're doing but it's like an acupuncture needle imagine that it can be a very powerful event and yes we're doing this as a group

so it is a group experience but clearly you're here as an individual having your experience and it can be both at the same time and your job is to every now and then sort of check in with the energy and just sort of say okay what am I feeling?

Is there a role that I can play? Like sometimes I've had experiences where I feel I just need to breathe for someone else who's really I can hear and feel the challenge they're going through and I just like shoot myself over there in my mind and I just feel like I'm just

breathing with them and holding them and like it feels so amplified in those experiences I feel like in a sense psychedelics are like these massive amplifiers like it takes the antenna of you and your consciousness and just turns it up to 11 and then another 11

and every other you'll fractal 11 beyond that if you want and what all that is I don't know but I'm really glad that it exists because even though it's not a huge part of my practice like taking a lot of psychedelics

for some reason I can't stop talking about them and like it's influencing my music and I've had experiences that felt like realer than real in a way and that helped me understand what it just meant like

what the hell is going on with this whole life thing like what the fuck is going on and for some reason that gives it more grounding and meaning even though it's more confounding I I want to thank feels for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH

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when you look at where we're at right now from a historical perspective regarding the end of the prohibition on psychedelics the psychedelic essentially the psychedelic dark ages that western world went through with like

pockets of you know underground pockets are not so underground pockets of people taking psychedelics for various reasons one things for certain we don't have the same maps that you know someone who has been

born into a tradition where psychedelics are something that involve black lights are stereotypical every high schooler has about them or like staring at a lava lamp or all the stuff which really is a kind of

hyper primitive way of you know stumbling upon a new technology like the there's a great YouTube video they put a mirror in the jungle because they wanted to see the way different animals reacted to very fun to watch like a leopard

like going from trying to fight itself to like clearly liking itself to then performing for itself like jumping out of a tree having sex with the mirror yeah like you know like but I think that psychedelics

in some way or in the west are like that they're like a mirror that came out of nowhere that we're just starting to understand what it may be and um we're still not at a point where you're allowed to say the

things I want to say which is yeah it's like it's probably the beginning of some new way of traveling and which is why instinctually people knew that I called tripping but it's

I want to this is something I was just curious that maybe you've experienced yourself or that you've experienced in ceremony uh regarding this idea of travel um do you have the sense that

every time you go through one of these ceremonies you're entering into a new universe in other words like this ceremony that you did did it maybe potentially shift you out of one timeline into a completely different timeline I'm sorry

if this seems way too weird or whatever but um it's just something I've been kicking around in my head and John Lily used to say that every time you got into the tank you got into the tank in one universe and when you open the sensory deprivation tank you got out

you got out in a completely different universe that some people would go into the tank and walk through the tour very midnight gospel yeah yeah I'm curious what you think about in that regard regarding like the actual like

dimensional navigation that goes on via psychedelics or psychedelic ceremony I think that the creative energy does that anyway so maybe I just feel like I'm really used to what it feels like to lose myself a bit from those

flow states and music and it's just a very like you're kind of in it and you're out of it in such a way that I don't really even notice it and all I know is it provides some kind of flawless for me emotionally like it's like a vitamin I need to take to feel

okay and to me it feels like that creative force that comes through in infinite different ways in this world you know not just music certainly in comedy and writing even a good conversation at times

that force of creation is the substrate of life it is God creating it's you that is it and that is the blossoming forward in a sense and it is so important and sacred and delicious

like that you're deficient if you don't have if you're not exercising that muscle and so inside playing a ceremony that involves any music that involves improvisation particularly it's like man you're going

right to the mainline of it and if you've just if you've all you have to do in your work is exercising your own capabilities just to be able to play anything right so you know how much will have you put into just the technique in a sense and doesn't have to be virtuosistic

it's just you have to have some technique to be able to do something right now you've created a doorway into this space of alternate universes but really to me it's all one universe it's just different wavelengths and channels like it's all inside

the bubble of love the universe God that you can't escape I had a a ketamine experience because Rada is now a ketamine therapist here here in Boise and is really really powerful and

surprised me like blew me away that it could be that strong and after I came out of it I was just trying to understand I was recording like these notes to myself and I ended up using a bit of that recording in a song that's coming out

and there's this phrase in it that was like you can't fall out of love and what I meant to myself is like love being this thing you're in you can't not be in it and I like this this sort of poetic phrase of you can't even fall out of love

you're always in love so those states we get in and out of I feel like well you're always there it's really more like taking the wool off your eyes to just experience what's there right yeah and that thereness I think

we're still at a point where culturally that their place is still kind of considered a fantasy like a totally an imagine the other yeah and other and and when you sort of look

at the history of navigation or you look at the great leaps for humans have taken in their ability to traverse various terrain mm-hmm each new leap forward in navigation also presents

like a new way of seeing everything permanently like you could almost say that every time we move to a new form of navigation it's a weird form of apocalypse it's like whatever like the world before that is no more it's radically changed

by you know that suddenly we can cross a desert in a plane and now we know what a desert looks like from the POV of a bird or now we can see the earth from the space station and each one of these

shifts there's cultural shifts that happen that go along with it you know and not just technological are like like David Bowie doing like space Odyssey or you get you know what I mean you get like it transforms

the whole planet so I don't know I really do get this feeling that as the prohibition ends with psychedelics that it's going to trigger a literal come to Jesus moment where people have

to start recognizing this terrain is not just a function of the mind like it's a place and are you know like to me when I think about my crazy hubris as a kid when people would

tell me about ayahuasca or they would say oh no it will heal you or these mushrooms will heal there's shamans who will heal who will get into your energetic system and heal you physically emotionally I would be like yeah whatever

it's not a scalpel or chemo or it's not real and to me that's the the thing we're probably I'm probably not you because you seem to already know that but the thing I'm stumbling upon is like

no there's an actual place I know we're all in one place I know we're in the great field of love but this place it's like the astral plane or something it's like a biome you know just right now

beginning to understand is more than a subjective place or a result of taking drugs or a result of a mental illness or something yeah man I mean people often the way they change their minds is when they have the experiences themselves

that's pretty much the only way and then they radically shift their perspectives on it so it's like I think what the prohibition ending will cause is just more people who wouldn't before step into some of these spaces

and they'll change their own minds by their own volition it's as we know it's been around and there's been a certain subsect that I call myself the brotherhood that I see in you of people who have already experienced these things and they know right

I think the real shift next will be the people who now it feels sanctioned it's okay you know that Michael Pollan gave them this license now it's like well okay I know a lot of people who never smoked weed until it was legal it just wasn't okay for them

you know and now they're all about it and so I think that will really push this cultural wave much further and much faster in addition to the research because it's been happening for thousands of years and I think it did inform

societies in probably massive ways perhaps a lot of thoughts about the Greeks and Soma to the Egyptians to the Mayans to the Aztecs it goes on and on and you could keep going back in time and hypothesize about how this

was played a role so now it's sort of our turn it's like look we're standing on the giants of all that experience but we now have to bring it online with sort of our frontal cortex mind and science and that's what we're now allowing

we're sort of saying we're going to allow that to occur and I think that could be amazing marriage because that's never happened before it's happened with music and it's happened with other things but never with the blade of science and I don't know

if you can even quantify these things but we certainly can do a lot of fuckery to discover what's going on with the chemicals and synthesis and so I think it'll be great the fusion of disease floating through the air

and now I think do I want to go to some nexus point of sickness no I didn't like it before the pandemic and I certainly don't like it now which is why I love Amazon Pharmacy it's easy

you just have your doctor's office and your next prescription straight to Amazon Pharmacy you can use your insurance with most insurance plans nationwide and if you're an Amazon Prime member you get free two-day delivery and save on prescription medication

when paying without insurance it's great there's no need for you to drive to a drugstore anymore because Amazon Pharmacy will deliver your medication right to your door it's

super convenient it's just like buying anything else on Amazon you don't have to wait in line it's one less errand for you and it comes safely to your doorstep so it's wonderful this is great we need things like that these days

I always feel weird at pharmacies it's a weird thing the whole process getting your prescription and all of it just weirds me out man reminds me I'm impermanent man I like Amazon Pharmacy it's convenient

Amazon Pharmacy is exactly right for a time when a lot of us have decided we're just gonna stay home Amazon Prime members can save on prescription medication when not using insurance and get free two-day delivery you can learn more at Amazon.com

slash DuncanRx that's a m a z o n dot com slash DuncanRx Amazon.com slash DuncanRx thank you Amazon Pharmacy well you know I could think

of some of them that's so funny what happens when the blade of science makes its way into say the DMT realm and you know what happens it's like they're gonna try to catch them that'll be one of the things like they're gonna try to

catch them in a way or something you know that will be one of the maybe the worst or best things that ever happened is finally we'll be like well the DMT elves they actually weigh 16 micrograms now we know

they've been eating too much light then they're usually like 20 or 25 you know what I mean the blade of science it just wants to measure it wants to measure and and I think there's something to be said for that and

this mapping you know Alex Gray it's one of the many beautiful things when he's talking about visionary art is it's a map and we're getting like visionary art functions as a map for this realm that the mystics live in know about

it's the lifting of a type of blindfold from the conditioned eyes of anybody who was born into a world where that just wasn't a possibility I'm one of them when I was a kid there was a clear distinction

between my imagination and reality you know what I mean if there were elves in a book no one would be like but actually they're elves they're like some kind of well you did believe that I'm sure at a certain age I'm sure you believed

in all that stuff it just sort of one by one my step kid when he was 8 told me like look dragons, elves real Easter Bunny

Santa Claus you know not real and I was like well why are dragons real and he's like because they're real man of course you know it's like there's no question in his mind but within a year later once those became not real

because he said he heard people talking that's how he put it everything cascaded from there and God was now on the list, God's not real nothing's real he's 9 he sounds awesome he's like going through his nihilist

yeah it's getting dark he's going through the crossing the abyss but you know the what's so exciting to me about what you and Rada do is you're very open about it

you seem to have somehow shaken off the fear of the current legal situation you do mushroom ceremonies well not really I have a healthy

dose of fear and skepticism and I don't do these public mushroom ceremonies I create music that's a tool for it and I have guided many ceremonies in the past

that were private ceremonies but I'm not out there like flaunting anything in front of the face of like what's illegal I understand that you know what I mean and I don't necessarily agree with that but I'm not out there personally like dosing people

and I get emails all the time that I either don't answer I have to clarify for people who are continual narks one of them I'm sure just being like hey where can I get the blink or can you give me this or how do I do this

and like just you know little trap entrapments and I'm not interested in that and so I stay very clean about my involvement since I become such an advocate and speaking about my experiences so openly I get the nark emails once and while things like hey

I'm a 16 year old boy and I'm interested in psychedelics particularly taking LSD you know where I could find LSD and would you recommend and I'm always like ask your parents don't talk to me ask your parents

cop I've never touched it in my life yeah but also the sense that I've gotten from police that I've talked to is like you think that's what we're worried about y'all eating mushrooms

I mean it's the meth that's fucking their lives up you know it's the coke it's the white powders and they're I think to them that's what's going to get you if you're a police officer and you're going to get shot that's one of the ways you're going to get shot is by some speed freak

not by someone in the midst of a mushroom ceremony listening to Ease 4 I think the whole conversation in almost every level of course there's a few pockets of tyranny

or fascism or whatever but I think the general conversation is shifting all the way across the board because you know you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube it's already out and

because of that we're really about to there's so many things aligning right now getting back sorry for the technical error so to me you are a pioneer

you represent what I think is we can look forward to and what they're calling the post-pandemic renaissance that we're all crossing our fingers for because all these things are coinciding a pandemic

meeting the age of Aquarius that's right meeting the end of the prohibition of psychedelics and all these things are obviously not really separate like you were saying it's all mixed in together

it's all one thing mixed together but these threads are to me becoming the most prominent now when I'm thinking about what art's going to look like

over the next decade or what movies are going to be like or what we're going to be like or self-expression is going to be like and weirdly coinciding with all of this is the beginning revelation from the military of these

alien ships in the new COVID bill there is a thing that in six months they have to disclose to senators everything that they know come on seriously because I've been talking a lot about this lately I didn't know that that was in the bill it's in the it was buried in there which is in six months they have to

like give all data points regarding these ships that people are seeing Marco Rubio put it in weirdly because he's unbelievable yeah and so right now these events seem if you look at them you could think

that they're unrelated just but I think actually it's the very it's when you're on a ship and you see something far on the horizon that's what this is it's like the ship of history

is like approaching some really weird new terrain so would you mind talking a little bit about from that point of view your theories regarding what this new terrain is in particular

your theories regarding some of the entities you encounter when you're on mushrooms or maybe have something to do with these ships that are zinging around well look I would also point the lens back at you and say that the creates the creativity you're putting out

like with that show you did man because I want the listeners to know that you were gracious enough when was that I don't know a year and a half ago I stopped by Hollywood and you took me in the studio and you really only had episode one mostly done

and that was it and even then I could just see talk about things coming together from disparate angles and mashing things together in ways they haven't been done before that to me is another perfect example of this sort of creative

bravery of taking these disparate parts and making things that are very much of like your voice for each of us like that was so your voice I think as I remember saying this is so you and that's what's so wonderful about it

and that I hope is what we're looking for and what we see manifest more in the future creatively because art has really always been the harbinger of our future and sort of reflection on our current and our past in a way and

that's showing us like it's a shedding of skins in a way it's a letting go of expectations and it's a true openness to what the infinite possibility of our future is which is not just like a

psychedelic idea it's like that's the reality it has infinite possibilities in front of us and we get to choose what we want to do and it feels like what's happening right now on this ship as you say we're on we're throwing a bunch of shit overboard to save weight and patching up

some holes and everything that's not needed is either breaking or we're getting rid of it because there's no choice in order to stay afloat this is what has to happen and god damn it we're human beings we will do it

we will adapt we will stay afloat bitter and we will do whatever is necessary we're going to make some mistakes you know maybe we threw over the wrong things or a few people we threw over we regret this this is horrible and now we have to grieve it

we have to deal with this karma but nonetheless we are marching forward and none of us know what that future holds but I think in our hearts we know like we know in the sense that as Charles Eisenstein

in his beautiful phrase our hearts tell us a more beautiful world that is possible quite literally we know a more beautiful world is possible now how that could be a reality or what steps that would take to form it that's where we get into all sorts of gyrations

in our mind or like it's impossible or this or that yada yada yada but the fact that we hold that collective truth that's our lighthouse and I think we're actually moving towards it whether we like it or not that's what you sense in that psychedelic

blossoming that I always see across different psychedelics it's sort of endless movement almost like that flower like the lotus blossomed just like ju ju ju ju ju ju that fractalness of it that is the creative

source source that is us that is the returning to God that has no destination that is sort of the whole point maybe that none of our minds can tell you hey it's this and it's this

that's the operating system we're in but it's a different octave right it's like the light spectrum it's infinite but we only can see this one bit and that's just the language we have to use right now we're not meant to be able to put our finger on it

because it's not put your finger on a bowl it's the Lao Tzu it can't be spoken the truth and that's why music and art in many ways the only way to even start to dance around the edge of this mystery

that has no edge and that's Eric Davis's phrase the mystery with no edge and I'm like there you go the mystic poetry that's why we have these things that's why music is trans-dimensional because it helps you feel it

not understand it that's the only way is to feel it and that's why we're in those journeys you have these great understandings but let's be honest they're really feelings they're understandings of feeling and that's why when you put it on paper to remember it's just like a circle

and you come back and you're like this is it this is the answer it's a triangle at this point in my in my psychedelic career at this point in my in my history of psychedelics

I find myself writing something down there's always peace in me that's like come on man before you started you wrote down don't write anything down yeah I think this is finally after two decades of

psychedelics this will be the sentence to this is the time this is it you finally figured it out yeah but you know to get back into the razor of science

I want to bring up something that that was my first encounter with him and the thing that my first feeling towards that teacher was I was really I hated him I felt directly criticized by him

because I had found this beautiful path now I see it as a beautiful passage where he said it if you take the ineffable if like you begin to say things like it's I can't there's no words for it and that's not what you're saying

you're saying there is words it's just not words it's music but anytime you get into that point where we've all been if we've experienced something astounding as we go there's no I don't have words for it that's like taking

your confusion and putting it on an altar and burning incense to your confusion burning candles to your confusion and though I do enjoy burning candles to my confusion and I think there's something to be said for confusion

itself being well as Trump or Rinpoche said it's on the continuum of enlightenment I feel like also there's something to be said for thinking about things in a more technical sense from a scientific perspective and

that it's a weird thing in the sense that the problem is the scientists themselves who most certainly if I had to bet on it are most certainly taking the psychedelics that they're studying I can't imagine

being a scientist involved in an LSD study which is happening right now to treat ADHD or researchers studying psilocybin's effect in the treatment of depression

or anxiety related to the end of life not at some point being like I think I'm going to take some of these on a camping trip and see what happens but they can't then say without losing all their funding

well what happened was that I came into contact with what appears to be an intelligent praying mantis praying mantis that seemed pretty

serious regarding its desire to bring peace to our planet and they are using these as a tool to convey some practical information to us

they can't if they say that it's over their funding is gone I've met scientists I'm not going to name names who have been like yeah try saying that try putting that in your fucking paper say goodbye you better write like a book about astral projection

or some shit because your science career is done nobody wants to hear it but and yet artists were lucky because we could say that and no one's going to be like I'm not listening to that podcast anymore he thinks that he can talk to praying mantis beings too shit

well look two points on that one just about the UFOs you saw recently the guy who is Israeli he was 87 year olds and died that's a decent example of saying like I couldn't say this before but I can say it now we're part of a galactic federation

Trump knew he was going to tell everybody but they convinced him not to you know it's parts of it are hard to believe but it gets in line with what you're saying about people it's easy to throw stuff

out the people I've met in the psychedelic research field that I've talked to a lot of them just have a really it's a heartfelt connection they just like anybody else had some really

powerful experiences personally that was so profound that it already shifted them to do something that's already challenging which is like I'm going to dedicate my professional work now to this in some way or the other so they're already like way out on a limb

but they know that we need to sharpen the blade in the spiritual world and that has never been more important than it is today

in the worlds of Facebook and misinformation and all the malarkey that's out there where it's just too easy to explain things with these little tropes that might be true

but it's not enough and so now as you're saying we bring in maybe these ingredients of science or whatever it is we need to do that as a community because that's how we're going to create the bridge to other

communities that aren't already in this spiritual world or psychedelic world and we're seeing the dangers of that now with a lot of conspiracy ideas and how it becomes like truly like a public health emergency in a sense yeah for sure

I mean yeah it's the you know I've experienced the thing I experienced when I saw you perform which is getting blasted without taking a psychedelic a few times

always around spiritual people always around people who have some kind of practice but it never fails to sort of it seems like the most obvious thing that you can get high on more than a substance

you can get high on more than some configuration of molecules you can get high on music you can get high on sex you can get high on exercise and most certainly you can get fucked up from the internet and I think part of the public health emergency

is you have legions of people consuming one of the most powerful psychedelics that has ever been on the planet every single day and then being wondering like why do I feel

why do I feel crazy it's because you're like snorting big fat fucking rails of the internet all day long stop and you need to take a break like any other psychedelic totally did this

in the way a shaman via music or prayer or some other method shapes the terrain of the group similarly you have these digital shamans who are shaping people's landscapes

not out of some desire to heal like when you shifted your consciousness to embrace someone having a rough time but in shifting your consciousness to people who are having a rough time and attempting to amplify that rough time so that you gain control over them

and inject them with whatever your particular shitty data set is and then this is why I'm on twitter and I made the terrible mistake of saying getting in an argument over why you should wear masks with someone all of a sudden the person I'm arguing with will stop even

communicating by writing and just start posting shitty stupid news you know what I mean which is to me the equivalent of when something filled with parasites starts vomiting the parasites there's a meme of the mask seeing in on it

there's a meme that the pandemic's not real and you're like but can you tell me what you know show me your fucking sources what's the data set you're drawing this from that it's not real blah blah blah or even worse the information's out there

you're gonna have to fight it yourself no you're not ready you're not ready it's like Sasquatch you know if you haven't found Sasquatch you're just not ready yeah exactly and so to me you're absolutely right it's a public health emergency

because people don't realize that not only are they tripping their trips are being guided by state entities and using like a psyops campaign designed to destabilize whatever it's the same shit we used to do or still do the CIA would do it in Iran or various places

where you go in there cause all kinds of like just disturb the shit so that it causes everything to be so tumultuous that there's a possibility of installing a new government without even people realizing it's happening but

to get back to the psychedelic phenomena in this regard I wonder I'm sorry I keep going after this I feel a little guilty for having an agenda here but you're one of the only people I've chatted with

I've chatted with a few people who have been to ceremonies and know about leading ceremonies with psychedelics and so I just I'm so sorry what if you had to

describe the biome that we encounter on mushrooms the entities the elves whatever you want to call them do you one do you think have you encountered them so what the fuck

are they I'm only asking because I know that you surely if you haven't encountered them you've been around people who have encountered them via these ceremonies so I wonder if you could just talk about that a little bit my apology for trying to

nudge the conversation in that direction no it's like on my podcast if someone knows anything about UFOs I keep like bringing it up and they're just like ugh and I'm just like but really tell me more about the UFOs look I have to be honest that I don't know

and if anyone tells you they know red flag I don't understand any of it now after that disclaimer I'll tell you some things I think but I don't know I don't know my encounters

feels like less with a physical hallucinatory being and more like an intelligent energy that I have communication with in my own mind through words and phrases

and it's a very clear and strong just that's there and I'm here and I think something quote say something and it sort of has its response back and that intelligence to me I felt it on other substances too and I feel it also now

it just bleeds into my life where I feel it with Maharajie and I didn't a couple years ago but I would say the reason I know you is because of the way I decided to just say I'll roll some dice hey Maharajie guy

I'm listening let's see what happens and here we are and it goes on and on so the boundaries start to blur and it becomes more like who is the me in my head

I often find myself in my head saying the word they or we, we should do who's we this is so crazy is there the witness and then there's the ego and we're just seeing ourselves as two separate things

and when I'm in these journeys and I'm thinking things and I get rid of these response is that an other or is that just another fractal reflection of me is God slash the universe slash you I don't know but it has a very stern voice

it has a very clear voice it has a voice of law not of decision it's like this is just how it is and there is no negotiation and that's not like I can now judge the thing for thinking

this is it and that is the struggle in the psychedelic journey especially with ayahuasca from my experiences is that my pain is not yet being able to accept that and give into that thing whether it's some truth about my own self

or the past or the universe or suffering whatever it is and when I finally give in and maybe there's a purge involved that's when there's the explosion of satori and now I'm back I'm like oh I've just plugged back into pure enlightenment consciousness

it's about letting go acceptance it's about release it's about not blockading that flow of energy in sort of like a chi acupuncture kind of way so you know to me it seems more feasible

that the spores shoot through the universe and they hit certain planets and billions of years go by and we know that fungi are some of the first things on this planet billions of years ago so I mean it's actually more logical to me

that it's just an incredibly old let's call it a plant even though it's a fungus just a live thing and because of that we can't compare what consciousness even is and so the fact that

it even has developed ways to communicate on such literal levels as like you put this in your body and everything explodes and you understand shows you what a gift man we talk about what is all these spaces

but just how about why does this even exist and there's not even like one of these there's thousands and probably many more thousands we have yet to have discovered of ways of altering different flavors of psychedelic ice cream

on this planet that just are they're just there it makes no sense other than I mean the only logic of that to me is that it's a tool it's just like lettuce is a tool and trees help me build things they're all intelligent

they're all just different substrates and that means we're tools too but you happen to be like steering the ship you are the carpenter of your own tool and what do you want to build that's up to you boom there's the soul's journey

and then you have your particular knots and your particular things you have to work with and that's perfect for your little journey and now it's your choice and so going back to the metaphor of the ship your job is where do you want to point the ship

what do you see in the horizon that's your vision that's your bliss that's drawing you towards that beacon what is your North Star you choose it you don't control all that other stuff that happens around you but that choice is incredibly important

and so when we get out of this internet maze this haze that we're in the hypnosis and recognize our own volition in all of this it's so important because we're being put to sleep

in a way that's not just anesthetizing us it's destroying us on a personal level too I feel it when the weight I feel some of that I can't even use Facebook anymore because some of the comments get so

they hurt people call me a fraud or it is like one person for using the word ceremony for doing a free ceremony on YouTube in the pandemic and they put up like we need to shut this guy down that kind of cancel culture

and it's like I don't want any part of it I don't want to shut other people down I have some ideas there but that particular thing in the same way I know

I love your description of this voice the law because our association with law in general maybe isn't the best for a lot of people maybe a better way for folks to think of it more in terms of

laws of physics inarguable laws they just are and that voice is so amazing any time you are lucky enough to tune into it I think it's playing

it's speaking all the time and every moment when finally you begin to hear it it's not scary because you've been listening to it since you were in the womb it's what babies are hearing but the

counter to that is what you are talking about which is this strange web of repressive impulse that is showing up online it's that

thing that I guess is like the collective grasping or the collective attachment or the zeitgeist a paradigm that

we're all starting to realize it's not real we're all we're clinging to a way of looking at things that is potentially fundamentally wrong

and shaped by various regimes that really depend on their being hierarchy and it transcends I think the material universe this is why I always feel connected to Gnosticism

or at least parts of it that I understand which isn't much but this concept of the demiurge this sort of antithesis to the pure creative state you're talking about a thing that it's

the thing in anybody you know as a comedian a feeling you become familiar with whether you like it or not has to be a weird kind of jealousy

when you see someone a million times funny you know what I mean you can't do anything about your feelings they just show up it's a fire though too that jealousy in a way it's a form of inspiration

yes that's the side that that's the ship pointing side some people never realize like oh well that thing that you're feeling that's your inspiration that's the ass of your inspiration you know what I mean

right into the asshole of your inspiration by feeling jealous because it's showing you it's possible but what I'm saying is the demiurge is a thing forgive me my Gnostic friends out there if I'm fucking this whole thing up but the demiurge is the thing that had that

very same feeling in relation to the creative outflow itself and so it had jealousy and didn't decide to like recognize that there was a potential for inspiration or novelty in that but rather just

completely synthesized the creation into a synthetic version which is the matrix that we're all in right now that's the idea so we are literally living inside a synthetic echo of primary reality

and because we're in that synthetic echo of primary reality it's very it's disastrous for the demiurge if people begin to realize oh I don't think this is quite as real as I thought it was because the moment you do that

you see right through and now of course you're in the bubble that you're talking about in this weird shitty side show that was being put on by a the hope-style god suddenly just becomes like a you know what I mean like a bad opening act

that doesn't want to get off stage that thing to me manifests in what you're talking about it manifests anytime you find yourself around a person a group of people a political system that is actively trying

to suppress you to keep your brain and nervous system focused on fear terror horror

the impossibility of anything all the various things that I think the internet is magnifying you know and it's never going to stop that's the other thing it's like a fundamental quality of reality it's like as long as there has been

the ability for a human to observe there's been Mara there's been the thing that appears Satan in the desert it just appears and it's like hey look over here hey check this out you should worship me why don't you worship me

who do you think you are if you worship me I'll give you everything but in this case the phones have become that for our entire species begging us to worship at the altar of fear begging us to bow down at the altar of terror and so to me

I think what you're saying regarding the toxic quality of the internet it reminds me of that it's almost an initiation or something where humanity as a whole has to do the very same thing that Jesus did in the desert

Buddha did under the Bodhi tree which is to like just look at the phone and say I see you Mara get me behind me Satan I know what you are but god damn I can't do it you're supposed to invite the phone in for tea I think or something like that

what does nobody Buddha did but yeah Buddha said look at your phone when you're having tea with your friends yes yes look I think man it's so many amazing ideas I agree that the internet

as an initiation now that is an amazing idea you once told me that what if the next messiah was a meme and something I've thought about a lot since you threw that out there and I'm like and it starts to just play around like

what is a messiah and it's sort of a revelatory mechanism in a way and in some ways people have to look at the internet as a great amplifier it's sort of like a psychedelic it's sort of like by using internet

you're dosing every day but you're not paying any attention to set and setting who gave you the drugs where are they from how long is it going to last does this interact with the other one does Facebook play along well with Snapchat

you know drug interactions and so perhaps like the conspiracy stuff it's almost like a symptom of people trying to explain or just try to give meaning to something that I don't know

it's like it's too literal it's too simplistic of something it's like it's too psychedelic you can't put your finger on it quit trying, quit saying oh it's a cabal it is just a group of men and they're in charge and they're white and they're evil it's like

that would be nice because we could just bomb them they'll just die or you know so it's sort of a snake eating its own tail and but it's all like you said it's always been that way it's now super amplified

and I think people's job now on a personal level is to just grab the reins of your own consciousness just to open your own goddamn eyes to see what it is that sometimes is enough you ever heard about people in chronic pain

and they can it's psychosomatic pain but they think it's back pain or they think it's this kind of pain and they someone just explains to them how it could be part of their mind and their psyche and they can write a letter about it to themselves or just knowing that

and it's enough for the pain to go away it's sort of like that the awareness of the fuckery going on with your own consciousness might be enough to turn that ship a couple degrees so that now years from now you're in a completely different

hemisphere yeah I think so I think it really is just like imagine some weird world where people didn't know that whiskey was alcohol but that's one of the

main things that everyone's drinking so everyone's throwing around fucking why do we feel like shit why do I smell so bad what's going on why are we all like this why can't I do math every day

this is why we're acting like we're drunk and then you're like oh maybe we need to like change what we're drinking or stop drinking or whatever similarly with the internet just that the acknowledgement like come on you're getting high don't tell me you're fucking sober if you're on instagram all day long or do you really

believe that you got a snore or shoot or like smoke something for that to count as a drug that's that to me is it and then also the other thing you're saying that I love is like in the same way like if you're gonna do a drug test

that shit unless like the person giving it to you you've known forever they it's just test your shit so you don't get sick or worse and so you know I think that in particular with the internet is like doing a what you're saying makes you think

of like oh yeah you need to do like a at the very least of the poshness scan of your social media body like check it out what's going on there because this is my dumb realization that I had a few days ago is like I'm like

realizing like I'm fucking annoyed man all these QAnon people are there stupid they invaded the conspiracy world now it's like all of which it was my favorite world but they've like warped it into a ruined it yeah licking president worship which was

never part of what was about but but uh then I realized like wait I'm following these accounts you know what I mean like I the reason I'm getting upset

about it is not like a fucking raven is flying into my window being like trust the plan trust the plan Trump is gone because I'm on the internet and I've dialed it in you know what I'm saying so to me it's

something like a purge so to speak like if you if you practice mindfulness when you look at your phone and when you put your phone down you're feeling disturbed because of some shitty information you get where did the information come from

oh it came from that fucking account I've been following for no reason for the last three years it is strobing bad data into my brain so yeah I think that they're just you don't have to cancel your facebook just block everything on the facebook that's making you feel bad

and then then suddenly it becomes like there's a few if you're on instagram and you're getting like instafomo or whatever they talk about general loathing sense of humanity it may just be that there's three accounts you're following you could follow

all monks at this point on twitter monks I wonder like who would have accounts these days if they were still alive sometimes at face value it's hard not to see

how obvious instagram is literally the way it all started was like literally life through filters that was the whole point of it we're going to augment things to look better that's all it is and of course

sometimes your own life is going to feel a bit shittier because it's never as glossy the fact that we've lost track of that and then you add in the whole quantifying factor into it this is x is better than y because it's a bigger number

and this idea of influence but you know influence for what we've forgotten that the primacy okay rom-dos so they asked me rogley's been bugging me to do another track but with old material

and my big problem was there's too much I don't know where to start you know before when we did the album together I just put a mic up and it's like give me what you got and that's what I'll use now it's like oh there's 15,000 hours of recording we've settled on it

I found a talk and I collaborated with another artist I wish I could tell you who it is but I can't yet but it's one of my idols I'm just blowing my mind that this is even happening I'm sorry

Bob Marley and in the sample rom-dos says like the real work is in the privacy of your own heart and it's so true though we've gotten lost in

how many people you influence is clearly more important because you're clearly now talking to more people but it's like yes but that's the Maya because you know none of that matters because the real work is in the privacy of your own heart

and only you have the litmus test to say how well that's going you're the only judge and jury and to me it's like that's what we're losing a bit of that everything else is the judge of who we are and our worth and our influence

when there's only real one influence the rest is just icing on the cake yeah that is so cool man it's like in the way I mean theoretically because of the neocortex

because of the rapid evolution of the human brain suddenly we have this thought continuum and where it's kind of us but it's not us we have this never ending it's we yeah yeah we

and so people believe they're their thoughts and they're connected their thoughts and now it's almost like social media has become an exteriorization of that very same problem oh totally so now it's like you're not your social media and you're not

your thoughts it's like neither of these things really mean that much if anything at all but god you know it's so fascinating what you're saying because how easy is it to just believe that the world that you're seeing

in your phone is the real world and how easy to think that because you're having some effect on a digital world in your phone that you're having any real impact on the world that you're in right now

how you know it's easy to think that oh yeah you got a bunch of retweets or you made a meme that got popular your tiktok has got a zillion views whatever the fucking metric is you're using and in that you get some

false satisfaction like it worked I did it what'd you do it is the real world in a sense because you made it your real world like and so it's

you're choosing your world it just doesn't add up to much it's digital candy I mean it tastes good in the moment but then it's gone and if anything it actually feels shitty afterwards and that's how you were talking about

how it's messing with our whole this whole space suit that we're in that's a chemical system it's just another form of coffee or LSD or heroin it's just digital and we're not fully recognizing and we know this to be true

quite literally in our brain it's chemicals so I mean it's a way of getting high people need to be honest about that and I'm not judging getting high but it's like you know try putting your phone down and not touching it first thing in the morning and going and peeing having breakfast

doing everything you do and it's how long can you last and it'll show you how strong that connection is in your synapses man that that's pretty much I think that is the exercise that's it if you want to do a modern form of

vipassana digital vipassana yeah get up in the morning don't look at your phone and then look at that itch for me the way

Satan my phone is the it's always there's a good reason I gotta see what time it is what I mean or I need to check my talent time even suddenly knowing what time it is becomes the most important thing

or you know that moment where you're like fuck what day is this to me those are good signs if you don't know what day it is sign of success you've made it you're doing great way to go like you're free of the burden of time but then of course

you're not just looking at it for time what's on your calendar that day you're within moments you're going to be absorbed in god knows what this is a really dark few days ago my wife and I were both in arguments

with different people online on our phones hanging out with each other but we weren't each other at all we're like debating people for something just like both of us are all tense you know what I mean and she's like are you are you in a fight online

right now and I'm like yeah me too it was terrible bad but yeah you know I think that yeah we all have to take responsibility for the fact that we're guilty of breaking the

number one rule when it comes to vampirism vampire only goes where it's invited and your phone if you don't have it calibrated is a fucking vampire alien thing

answering with parasitic memes that it's just what is it you might as well instead of a phone why not just get one of those face suckers from fucking aliens and just show that's how we fix it that should be what the phone is

it's a slimy wet thing that like you have to put it on your face to actually look at social media and it shoves some phallic probiscous thing down into your fucking stomach and that's the only way to check the time yeah

you pull it off it's 115 guys 115 yeah um I heard if you make your phone monochrome Tristan Harris mentioned this it takes about 10 to 15% less addictive just like little

just the color and the dazzlingness of the color and the lights lights up less of that in your brain it's nuts but like let's talk about the actual anecdotes because they're not they're real they're accessible and I know people have heard them but it actually really does work

yeah let's hear it it's everything that's the opposite polarity what is the phone made of the substrate of things in the natural world go to the natural world that's the direct source take a walk walk around the neighborhood take some deep breaths if you have the time go

get on some trees or some open landscapes you will feel awesome you know many people know this other forms of direct experience anything that's off a screen like creativity is a big one if you feel like you're not a creative being write a letter

you will feel fantastic after you mail that letter it takes 10 minutes not everyone loves mail it goes on and on cook something call a friend or zoom a friend have sex my friend

who's in a happy marriage with kids the only person I shouldn't say only but one of my only friends that's truly happily married his only piece of advice is don't stop fucking it's simple you know but it's just engage in these things that light up the natural

being that you are and they're all around us it's just creating that balance and you will face resistance just like any form of like exercise but you don't carry around like a nature walk in your back pocket like you do a phone

and so it's just I'm guilty of it as much as anybody we're cyborgs and that's part of our future we just now need to bring more grace to it we've just been like little kids running around hammers hitting everything and now we need to understand

like wait a minute if I hit certain things I could build a house hit other things I'm gonna kill you yeah right yeah we just have to learn how to use it we are learning we are learning it's just like some of us are kicking and screaming a bit more

because we're not really being honest about how the full experience of that cigarette you know if you're really honest about it it's not a net positive perhaps and you need to shift how you smoke or don't smoke to make it truly in the privacy of your own heart

your decision about like I know what makes me feel good it makes me a better god damn person in this world and what doesn't thank you so much for your time today what a wonderful conversation thank you

it's so good to see you man I missed you chat with you can you tell folks where they can find you well on the internet I know I gotta stop asking the question it's like I don't know why I do that it's like a ritual you know what

if you want to find me there's two ways I'd recommend one is right before you go to bed say East Forest three times in your mind and I hopefully will meet up Astroly if that doesn't work and you have access to well sourced psilocybin

some part of my being will attend and we can have tea together so follow East Forest on psilocybin I'll have to do that in the astral plane and I'm going to be a good partner

and the only website I'm going to mention is my partner Rada Marissa Rada believe.com it's a new site but she released a guided meditation album and I did the music and mixed it and mastered it for it and it's lovely and it's free

it's lovely and free it's a little tool out there if you want to ground out check her out watch out y'all these people are spiritual blasters he sounds really calm about it

but I guarantee whatever it is is going to knock your socks off I'll have the links at duckatrustle.com online sorry and thank you I really appreciate this chat man it was like yeah I really needed to hear it

my cheeks are actually a little sore because I haven't smiled and laughed that much so thank you we'll be seeing each other again in person soon this will end soon maybe in the summer we'll end up in Maui again I hope so we miss you yeah I did oh man

Hare Krishna I want to thank East Forest for joining us on the DTFH and thank you to Field Squarespace and Pillpack for supporting this episode most importantly thank you for listening

if you like this podcast don't forget to subscribe over at patreon.com and give us a nice rating on iTunes and PS if you notice that we didn't talk about some kind of alien invasion

a new insurrection an old insurrection or whatever weird thing happens between the time that I recorded this and it entered your sweet beautiful lovely ear canals forgive me

we're in a particularly turbulent blast of novelty waves right now and there's just no way to stay on top of it if you're doing anything involving time I love y'all and I'll see you next week

until then Hare Krishna we do it all