Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 443: Jason Louv

Episode Date: June 5, 2021

Jason Louv, AKA Soul Bird from The Midnight Gospel and SO MUCH MORE, re-joins the DTFH! Visit Jason's website, ULTRACULTURE, for all kinds of wild, magical content. And visit Magick.me to start learning it! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Omigo - Use offer code: DUNCAN15 to save 15% on your first order. StoryWorth - Visit StoryWorth.com/Duncan and receive $10 off your first purchase! BetterHelp - Visit betterhelp.com/duncan to find a great counselor and get 10% off of your first month of counseling!

Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. New album and tour date coming this summer. This is Audible. Journey Town Classics and the Gimlet Boys present Lies of the Moon Butler by Dan and Sinch. Read by Gail Bench.

Chapter One. The Butler's Underwear. Cassandra Cartwright's hair spread out in lazy tendrils of gold that floated like rays of sunlight against the magenta of her lavender-infused bathwater. She stretched her long, beautiful arm out of her emerald tub and plucked up her glass of moon champagne. Eyes closed, she brought it to her crimson lips which turned downward when she realized the glass was empty. Damn! She shouted at the marble ceiling of her massive bathing chamber.

Oh, how I hate to bring an empty glass to my lips! She sighed and snapped her fingers. Before she could make it to the third snap, her butler, Graydon Hunt, was there, a look of concern on his rugged face. President Cartwright, I'm sorry, but Melinda is still cooking breakfast and couldn't come in. In one hand he held a champagne bottle. The other covered his eyes.

She noticed he was shaking. It's okay, Butler Hunt. She said, you can look at me. But Madam President, I... Look at me, Butler Hunt. She ordered and his hand snapped away from his eyes which began to take in the exquisite beauty of the president of the moon. One of her beautiful legs stretched up and out of the water.

Pour me some champagne and rub my foot, Butler Hunt. She ordered, I'm sore down there. With trembling hands he poured champagne into the president's crystal glass and gently took her foot in his giant hands. Why are you shaking? she asked him, even though she knew. Too much coffee? No, Madam President, said Butler Hunt, his cheeks flushing with the crimson red. They reminded Cassandra of the sunset she once knew

when she was just a farm girl in Idaho, long before the sector wars forced her to dominate a planet and its moon. Have you ever fucked a president? she asked Butler Hunt. She felt his hands squeezed tightly around her foot. No, Madam President, I... He stopped and became completely silent. You what? she asked. Spit it out, Butler.

I'm a virgin, he whispered, closing his eyes with a beautiful shame. Drop your pants, Virgin. She ordered and Butler Hunt, as though he had trained for this moment his entire life, unbuckled his belt and dropped his black pants around his ankles. His underwear stretched out against his massive, bulging member that made Cassandra's heart jump in her chest.

Turn around, she commanded, not wanting him to see her quivering lips. Bend over, Butler. She snapped, as you wish, Madam President. He responded with a voice smooth and deep as the subterranean rivers that slowly flowed within the moon. He bent over, displaying his massive glutes and muscular ass. Somehow, even in the lesser gravity field of the moon,

he had managed to stay in perfect shape. It's against the rules to be a virgin on the moon, she whispered. I'm sorry, Madam President, he huffed. Too late for apologies, Cassandra snapped and sat up in the tub, frothing purple water, rolling down her beautiful, honeyed breasts. She began spanking him with her wet hands,

slapping against his firm ass. At first, her spanking was light, almost playful. But the more she thought of this virginal Butler, in the many lies he must have told under oath to come live in her presidential palace, a place where virgins had not stepped foot since the great virgin uprising hundreds of years ago, the harder her spanking became,

it was filled with the energy of justice and glory that had given her the power to conquer both Earth and Moon. Butler Hunt moaned. She could hear that he was holding back tears. She liked that. She hated when the butlers wept. She was about to deliver the hardest spank of all when she noticed something that made her hand

freeze like a wild hare in some snowy plain. The water from her hand had caused the thin white fabric of Butler Hunt's underwear to become translucent, and there, on his rippling, athletic ass, was a symbol she saw only in her nightmares, a trident surrounded by three circles, one red, one black, one green.

The mark of the legionnaires that once served Emperor Galtracks. Guards! she screamed out. No, I can explain, my president, said Butler Hunt, but it was too late. Her elite bathtub guardians appeared as if by magic from the many secret compartments in the walls of her bathing chamber.

They were about to run the butler through with their gleaming moon swords. When Cassandra cried out, No, don't kill him yet. But Madam President, he's a servant of Galtracks, barked Gregory Finch, the head of the bath chamber guardians,

we must execute him on the spot. No, ordered the president of the moon. I want to know who's behind this infiltration. Send him to the interrogation room. As you wish, Madam President, said Guard Finch, I'll make this butler sing, he sneered. No, you won't Finch, said Cassandra. I want to interrogate him myself.

When I'm done, you can have your fun with him. Butler began to weep and through his sobs, he managed to say three words that would reverberate through the moon colonies for years. I can come, he said. No one can come on the moon. Liar, said President Cartwright. No one except me whispered the weeping butler,

his glutes tightening with every sob. I just want to say thank you to the folks over Audible for letting me put that sample up. My God! I know I'm a little late to the game here but the lies of the moon butler and the moon butler trilogy, it's blowing my mind. You're not going to find a better audio book on Audible.

You're going to cry, you're going to laugh a little bit, you're going to get incredibly turned on. It's a very sexy book and you're going to learn a little bit about life. And I just really hope you'll check it out. Again, that's lies of the moon butler. It's from Journey Town Classics and the Gimlet Brothers, I think, the Gimlet Boys.

And that is exclusively available on Audible. You got to check it out. It's amazing. Friends, we have got a fantastic episode for you today. Jason Louvre is back. Jason Louvre, the little birdie from the Midnight Gospel, is here with us today. We're going to jump right into it. But first this.

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It's not because of a rise in crime or a spike in COVID cases. It's because of squirrels of all things that are attacking residents. My witness news reporter, Kimberly Richardson, has the story from Rigo Park. It was so fast and he had his claws out. He hung on there. It's not like he was jumping and jumping away. He was there. Here is SuperSquirrel in action, believed to be the same critter.

And it just basically runs up my leg and I'm like, okay, squirrel, hello, what are you doing? That attacked Michelin Frederick. He either bit me or scratched me on my neck and then I must have reached over or do something. And next thing I know, it's an M-M-I cage match and I'm losing. There you have it gang. You know, I did a little research and as it turns out, the two people in this news story do not appear to have subscribed to my Patreon, which is located at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. Obviously that's not a threat.

I'm not implying anything at all. I'm just playing a news story of, you know, squirrels just randomly attacking people and pointing out that two of those people in that news story were pretty bloodied up by those squirrels. They don't subscribe to my Patreon. At least I looked and I had my business manager look through my subscriptions and they definitely didn't show up. Maybe they're using a different name, but maybe there's a connection. Maybe there's not. I don't know.

I would love to invite you to sign up for my Patreon. It's at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. If you subscribe, you'll get commercial free episodes of the DTFH. You can join your true family twice a week for a weekly meditation along with a family gathering, where we talk about a variety of things, tell ghost stories, explore the possibility of the singularity in aliens, and the only thing that's missing from it is you. I'd love for you to head over to patreon.com forward slash DTFH. It would be insane if I was implying that this is going to protect you from a lot of horrible,

small animal to midsize animal attacks that are probably going to happen over the next month of pain, something I'm not calling the month of June, but that might be a good name for it if I did know, for example, that there was going to be a tremendous uptick in these small animal attacks. It's going to be rough for folks not subscribed to my Patreon if there were a correlation between these animal attacks and folks who hadn't subscribed, which, you know, obviously you'd be insane to imply such a thing like that. Is that okay? Got my lawyers here. Okay, great.

Wonderful podcast for you today. Jason Louvre is here with us today. If you watch the Midnight Gospel, you already know Jason Louvre. He was the soul bird hanging out in that terrible prison loop, but oh, he is so much more than that. I'd love to invite you to go to his website, ultraculture.org. He's got a wonderful podcast, lots of great essays and articles there for you to enjoy. And even better, if you're interested, he offers classes that you can take,

classes on magic, classes on meditation. It's all at magicmagik.me or ultraculture.org. Dive into the wild, beautiful, psychedelic, magical universe of Jason Louvre. But first, listen to him here. Everybody, welcome back to the DTFH. My friend, Jason Louvre. Welcome back to the DTFH. Welcome, welcome on you.

That you are with us. Shake hands, don't be too blue. Welcome to you. It's been done. Jason, welcome back to the DTFH. I was perusing ultraculture and your other website, magic.me. And I started really thinking to myself, fuck, we haven't talked about magic in a while. Yeah, that's true.

We've just been ranting about politics. Yeah, we've gotten all political and like the last one we got, because we were both like, it was pandemic fever, you know? But so I was just, we've got this like, also just, I think you're a real, you have amazing takes on American culture anyway, but I'm just curious about the intersection between UFOs and magic. And we've got this uptick of these whatever the fuck they are all over the planet. The Chinese military is now saying that they've been like using an AI to track them.

So what, where does, how does magic intersect with this, like whatever this world is that is starting to become normal to us? Because it used to, you know, in the past, obviously this was like just, even to talk about UFOs probably meant you were nuts is how like, you know, that was in the culture. So we've got senators, ex presidents talking about it. What the fuck's going on? Well, I can give you two takes. One is my take on my personal reaction to what's going on. Although I have to warn you, I'm not like up on a lot of the current events that are happening,

but I can give you my general take on this narrative that's being pushed right now. Yes. And then I can give you, which is a totally different track, like fairly unrelated. I can give you my personal thoughts on aliens. Great. Which is like a total different universe practically. Let's do them both. All right.

Well, so, so now again, I'm not up on, like I didn't know about the Chinese AI thing, like that's super, that's super 2021. But the, the whole thing about, look, let me just put it this way. It's like, whenever, like, whenever media and governments are pushing a narrative, I auto disbelieve. You know, and it's just like, totally, it's like, when you see Tucker Carlson being like, bro, there's aliens, like, like instant, just, you know, instant doubt, like that, like that LA nor doubt meme, you know, do not, do not trust. And, but I was actually thinking about this a lot. Now, when people were originally pushing the UFO thing, it was like in the middle of the riots. Right.

And the pandemic and my initial reaction to it was like, this is like, when you dangle, like a little, like you dangle a toy over a kid's crib that's screaming. Right. It's like, no, look at this. Look, aliens are real. You know, calm down and stop burning things, you know. Yeah. And obviously to distract people from the fact that what's quote unquote really going on, which is the entire world has been shut down.

And the biggest transfer in history to build just a few billionaires of the like the entire middle class has just been eradicated. And we've seen that literally, like the amount that Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, all these people made in the pandemic is insane. Right. You know, and forget about, you know, forget about Amazon. It's basically Amazon through the one to punch of the pandemic. And then people being afraid to go outside because of writing has essentially killed like all business except for Amazon. Interestingly, now, now Bezos is working with even Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and people like that to push the minimum wage going higher because he knows it'll put Walmart out of business and he'll just control everything. Holy shit.

That is nefarious. Well, but yeah, I mean, wouldn't you be nefarious if you were Jeff Bezos? Yeah. It's like, so that's what's really going on. It's like not just nefarious. I mean, it's smart and I hope it does get pushed up, but whoa, I didn't realize. Yeah. I thought, you know, I thought there was some threat of altruism happening there.

No, it's amazing. You can look at the amount that he's donated to AOC and people like this through Amazon. It's like, there's a, there's a, there's a, an undercurrent here, you know, where it's there, he's trying to, he's basically trying to get rid of all retail and have everything be Amazon through various ways. So, so anyways. You think that's really what he wants. You think like someone like him who has everything you could ever possibly want is still at a place where he wants to wipe out all businesses. I mean, it, it seems. Yes.

Why? No, but think about it from his perspective because well, first of all, it's not just him. It's the company Amazon, which is now a massive corporation and is one of the only things. Literally the only thing propping up the US stock market is Amazon, you know, because they're in another dimension of productivity that no one else can touch. And the, you know, but, you know, at that mega corporate level, it's not about, people are always, they think like, oh, these billionaires are evil. It's like, well, it's not really about him and what he wants. It's about the company and the fact that he's got all these people to pay. He's got this huge infrastructure or not pay very well in the case of factory workers.

But I think in his mind, you know, he's working on a space program thing on Blue Origin. He wants, you know, he wants to put factories on the moon, you know, and have people in labor camps on the moon practically. So in his mind, Amazon is a means to an end. And a lot of these companies, I think, see themselves as the new rulers of the world and they are to all intents and purposes. So I think that it's not just about putting the competition out of business. It's about, you know, iterating the equation of his business and pushing it forward to build the future that he wants. And let's be honest, I mean, people like Bezos and Elon Musk are the ones that are building the future. Now, whether that's a future we want to go to is another question, but the governments are not doing shit anymore.

So, but at least in the America, you know, the middle class is getting it from both ends. Even Putin said this, he said, you know, the globalization caused massive middle class prosperity. You know, China now has the biggest middle class in history because of it. Russia has a big middle class. All these places are coming up India, you know, but in America, as Putin said, who knows you better than your enemy? The middle class, the wealth did not quote unquote trickle down to the middle class in America. It was all hoarded by the 1% and nobody got scraps from the table.

And that's why there's so much anger. That's why in 2016 and 2020 there was Bernie Sanders and Trump and now rioting and madness and chaos. It's like because people got cut out of the deal and America's falling. It's falling apart. I don't know how much longer it's going to be tenable. We're being lapped in everything by China. We've got a slight on China. I think they're doing a great job.

I am, you know, an American Patriot and all this, but man, we're not doing very well. That's just the truth of the matter. So anyways, in such a horrendously bad situation, let alone the lockdowns and the vaccine and the madness and the insanity. And it's that people are, I think that the focus of the powers that be is simply to keep people corralled and contained. And I think that they're doing that and they're doing that in infinite ways, you know, ways that Stalin would have, you know, what dreamed over. I mean, imagine what Stalin would have been able to do with a phone that records everything you do and everyone you go near. It's like it puts anything the Stasi ever did in the pale. Right.

So we live in the most controlled society in human history outside of perhaps China right now. So there's no semblance of freedom and so on and so forth. Wait, I don't feel controlled. Of course, you don't feel controlled. How are we controlled? Where was the control related to the fact that we have the healthcare isn't socialized or that where is the control specifically? Well, you're controlled in the fact that everything you say, do you think or or even anywhere you go is monitored and fed into algorithms that then create predictive, predictive programs to further shape and mold you with soft power.

And you're controlled in the fact that like literally almost all of our civil rights have been stripped quietly and in the background. I gotta say, I'm enjoying the porn suggestions. Well, there you go. It's soft power, right, which America has really. But the problem is that you're controlled in the fact that because of the pandemic narrative, you can't even, you know, everything's you're completely people have completely surrendered control of their lives. But the question is right now it doesn't feel like control because we have all these creature comforts thanks to Jeff Bezos or whoever. Now, if the economy falls out, what are people going to do? They're going to go back to what it was like in Portland or so on.

You know, there's this nonstop writing and people know that. I mean, every culture in history has known that. So think about how cultures have used religion to control people. Think about ancient Egypt where it's like, oh, yeah, the priest is coming out and can talk to the gods and they have these big public rituals. And people don't believe in that stuff anymore, but they might believe in aliens because it seems kind of sophisticated and technological. So why do we see the government pushing this? It's funny. It's like now I'm like the opposite of the way that I, you know, in the 90s, everyone's like, what's the government hiding?

Now it's like, what's the government trying to like convince us of? It's so funny. So it's swapped. Yeah. Well, okay. So your stance is sort of like the project Bluebeam people who believe that there is an impending disclosure, but it's disclosure of the disclosure will be a lie fabricated to sort of create a kind of new religion based on us being part of some illusionary cosmic brother. I got what you called a bio hood or, you know, some galactic empire that we've been accepted into and somehow via this trick, then they will be able to not just control, you know, the United States, but the planet entirely.

No, not necessarily. I think it's just clickbait, to be honest. I don't think there's a big overarching conspiracy. I know that's very disenchanting, but I do that. But you don't, but what do you think these videos are? What do you think the things? What are any videos now? We live in the world of deep fakes.

Literally, I watched the one that was on Tucker Carlson and I was joking to you that it looks like somebody moving around the paint tool in Photoshop, you know, and I wasn't, that wasn't a joke. It's like, but I don't know. I don't actually know. So I could be wrong. See, the part I'm really excited about is not the alien part because I, you know, that will be great if it's aliens. That'll be fun for everyone for a long time. But the part I'm actually excited about is the possibility that this is some kind of new drone technology that is using some new method of travel that is seemingly more advanced than anything anyone's ever, ever encountered. That is exciting to me.

And also, you know, I, I'm, I'm not quite as disenchanted as you are, but I, I think there's something to be said for just leaning into the most obvious possibility. And the most obvious possibility to me, even more obvious than this being some conspiracy would be that someone, some group has figured out a way to, you know, use like a gravitational. Propulsion device or whatever you call it. Yeah, probably world governments, you know, the US military and the Chinese military. Like, have you ever been onto Joshua Tree at night? It's been a long time. And I've never, honestly, I don't know. I've been to Joshua Tree at night sober maybe twice.

You don't have to be sober. As long as you know the difference between what's driven and what's not, you know, as experienced people do. Right. But I didn't recommend sober. I mean, come on. Why else would you go to Joshua Tree? But, you know, Joshua Tree obviously is right next to the 29 Palms base. And if you go, like, and I just say to anyone who maybe lives in Southern California, or maybe if they live near another military base, the mini American imperial military bases all over the world.

Yeah. Just, just go out at night. I mean, the sky is so clear there. You will see the craziest shit. Like you will see things like from those videos, things going at right angles and stopping. I had a friend who actually used to live there and he had an invisible B2 stealth bomber hover over his house. So there was just the were and the shadow, but nothing in the sky. Distortion field.

This was like 10 years ago. That's so cool. We don't know what they have. I mean, so, but literally you can go and see things like what they're putting in these videos. This episode has been supported by story worth my loves father's day is right around the corner. And if you're looking for a really cool gift to give the father figure in your life, then story worth is the way to go. It's an online service that helps your dad or grandfather or father-in-law. Every father figure in your life share stories through thought provoking questions about their memories and personal thoughts.

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You'll get $10 off your first purchase. That's storyworth.com slash Duncan for $10 off. Get your dad the coolest gift ever. Story worth. But I always think about, like, we don't, I don't know what's going on, but we can look at some cues for history. I mean, we know in what was it, it was in the 50s or the 60s, the U.S. government was intentionally putting out tons of UFO propaganda. That was, and reports of crash ships and disclosures and things like this. Now, this is historical record, but the reason they were doing it was to throw the Russians off the trail of what experimental craft they might be flying by spinning this whole thing about aliens.

But then the question is like, well, what if there's another layer under that where actually aliens are real cloaked in a mystique of disinformation cloaked as a disclosure about aliens. But then also, I was thinking of the main thing I was thinking about before this conversation was the 90s, you know, it's like, and I've been thinking about this a lot recently. People forget in the early 90s, and I say this in the context of UFOs as a way to control the narrative and control the narrative of dissent or even violent insurrection in the country, which we've seen intimations of this year. In the early 90s, people forget there was practically an open war between U.S. citizens and the government, the quote unquote militia movement, the Patriot movement. So we're talking about what like Wake, you know, there was the U.S. government started killing people. Well, there was Waco and then Ruby Ridge, right, and the, you know, Unabomber was running around and then Waco was retaliation for that, right, which was kind of left out of the narrative. But there was literally an open war going back and forth in the Bush and early Clinton years. And that was a response to Waco.

It was Ruby Ridge, Waco, McVeigh or something. And yeah, and yeah, that was clearly some kind of back and forth between militias and the federal government. Yeah, I mean, the narrative was like the government's coming to take our guns away. We, you know, but then they were like, you know, there have been all this kind of John Bircher paranoia, like, you know, simmering for a long time. But then Bush, Bush one literally came out when he was elected and gave a speech that we're starting a new world order. Yes. That's where that came from, right. And then, and then it was all of a sudden the confirmation bias was revealed.

Like, you know, federal government snipers are literally killing U.S. citizens and civilians, women and children in the case of Ruby Ridge or firebombing. You know, the guy they're trying to get nominated as the head of the ATF responsible for firebombing and killing what 80 children or civilians at Waco and then standing on the rubble grinning with his assault rifle. You know, it's like, that's the guy they're trying to really get a glimpse of what happened. You know that documentary, Jason? Yeah, I haven't watched it. I have seen recommendations. Oh, you got to watch it Waco. Okay.

Rules of engagement. Check it out. It covers everything that happened. It doesn't like try to like pretend that Koresh was like a great person or anything like that. But it just shows like there was no need for them to go in like they went in. They wanted to fucking fight. They wanted a battle. They wanted it like they wanted it.

And then they ended up and they got revenge and ended up like what putting a bunch of tear gas in the compound and then igniting it and essentially incinerating like I don't know how many children died that day. But. And then they claimed it was they then they claimed that they did it themselves like they committed mass suicide, which was false. Completely false. And this was fucking the era of Janet Reno and like just like it was the most horrible draconian display of violent power. And it was most definitely a signal to anybody entertaining the idea that they you could have some fucking compound and a bunch of weapons and nobody's going to fuck with you. That that that was not the case that you were definitely going to have to like take a knee to the federal government. You know, and that obviously it's not going to work when you're dealing with religious fanatics.

Right. And and but also remember that was the that was the birth of the Internet. You know, the Internet was first happening in ninety two ninety three with bulletin boards. And so people were communicating and there was on the Internet and there was obviously this fear that this kind of patriot. It's the same stuff you're seeing now. Right. Like whether they're trying to control the narrative where there's this fear that this, you know, this people are going to start talking to each other. And there could be literally be an insurrection in the U.S.

I mean, not inconceivable. You see how much people are freaking out about the idea now we've seen, you know, cities burning. We saw the White House or excuse me, the Capitol building. Right. So so I think that so what happened two things happened. One was Biden at that time in ninety three came out with the assault weapons ban, which expired under Bush. Right. But the other was ex files, all this stuff about aliens gets starts getting hard chilled in the culture.

And it's like, let's divert. It's kind of like David Ike. Right. It's like, let's divert real people who have real. I'm not saying that like, like the militia people were like nutty as hell, too. Like they have all these ridiculous narratives about the U.N. And, you know, like all this stuff that we saw from early Alex Jones, stuff like that. Sure.

But but that actually has the potential to erupt into violence where like, bro, aliens does not, you know. And and so I think looking back at the nineties, the fact that that stuff was getting pushed so hard to reframe the narrative into. No, it's not the government. It's this phantasmal spectral thing that can't be proven or disproven. It's all aliens and smokescreen and disinformation, the CIA term. So that's what I think is happening. No. But let me I'm going to push back because I I've thought this is to me.

An unnecessary, an unnecessary for one. I don't think any of these militias, especially the hard, the militias you don't hear about. I don't think any of these militias give a shit about aliens. And I don't think there was some disclosure or a hinting or aliens is going to do anything to quell the feeling that they have, the paranoia that they have, the sense that, you know, the mark of the beast is upon us and that soon nothing will be left but to, you know, die fighting for what used to be the United States. They don't care about aliens. So I don't think there's any the alien, the UFO thing, whatever it may be. I just don't see that as a pragmatic way to slow down any kind of impending upheaval. Well, maybe I should qualify what I'm saying then because it wouldn't be it wouldn't be to convince those people otherwise because that's not obviously not going to happen.

Like just like you're saying, it would be to throw up. It's like just think of like, like a squid putting ink out into the water. Right. So it's because they're not concerned about those people, those people the FBI can deal with to validate their salaries. Right. They're concerned about the narrative spreading. So they're creating a smoke screen so that the vast so that those ideas don't now infect the rest of the culture. And that that that nobody sees them that it's all it just becomes another another, you know, it just becomes another signal lost in the noise.

And I think that that's that we can see that now. I mean, you know, there was that Adam Curtis documentary hyper normalization where they he said that in Russia they figured out that the way to control the people is not to stamp on heresies or or rebellious movements. It's to generate more. It's to like have a have a hundred and twenty different radical groups that all believe in different things. Aliens, you know, hyper nationalism, whatever, just but the government actually controls all of them. And we saw that even with the the Capitol riot that the heads of both of those groups, the proud boys and the three percenters that stormed the Capitol were run by the heads were FBI informants. So there's a lot of I think it there's a you can clearly see that since Co until pro things like that. The goal is not to stop in from the stop these things spreading because you can't really can't.

The goal is to is to create a noise screen and smoke screen and confuse people. Well, look, this is to me. I don't I don't agree. But I love the I get it. I think it's my theory. Look, what do I believe? You know, my theories are like if I allow myself to imagine what's happening are equally weird. I mean, because the no matter what it's here's this is the truth, I think everyone must agree on.

It's weird. That's all whether it's a smoke screen, whether it's some new technology, whether it's little green Martians, whether it's a manifestation of the collective, whether it's an A.I. That's beginning to like figure out how to like, you know, like fuck around with the, you know, energies around the planet that we didn't know about, whether it's a an A.I. from another like universe coming here to like check us out, whatever it is, it's fucking weird. Like you got to agree with that is just weird. If the if our government or if the deep state or if the hidden whatever it may be is so organized that they can create a global phenomena where, you know, soldiers and politicians are coming forward and saying there's aliens. That's crazy. I mean, that is that's almost crazier than the possibility that these are just some technologically advanced drones being tested out by God knows who.

Well, you remember in the 80s, you know, even in the 80s, Ronald Reagan said, you know, the only thing that I think could bring, you know, everyone together and even the US and the Soviet Union was if there was an alien invasion tomorrow and then we would, you know, we would have a common enemy and then Alan Moore later rift on that in Watchman. But it's not like they they haven't thought through this. We're talking about intelligence agencies. Like I could literally if I was in an intelligence agency, I could organize this with, you know, a long weekend and an Adobe premiere. And just if I could get the clips out into the media, it would be so fun to do that with you one day. That you should, you know, but but the the I think we, you know, okay, so let's pin that on the wall. How do you know Biden's even real? Biden could be a deep fake for all we know.

Well, I know. But to me, that's I mean, I think this is we're getting into something that I think is like a new fill a new form of nihilism. It's a philosophical movement where everything's fake. Well, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Well, that's why I'm all I can do is give historical examples of what the US government has actually done with the whole alien thing. And it clearly suggests that they see it as a disinformation tactic. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it could be. But it there's other possibilities that you can't really discount. I mean, I think them to me, I just don't I don't think I just don't believe that they're that organized. I just don't think at this point they are not with like all the leaks, all the, you know, all the all the all the people who have already embedded themselves in there that are operatives from other countries. Jesus Christ, that hack that just happened that they kind of swept under the rug. Remember that thing just happened where they're like every government computer has been compromised by the same Stuxnet style virus that we use to fuck or the Israel use to fuck up the centrifuges in Iran. And then it just suddenly they just stopped talking about it. But now all of a sudden what's happening all this ransomware shit is happening all over the place.

Right. It's with the beef and all it's ridiculous. But there are counterpoint to what you're saying is like, look how much stuff that they have to distract people from. And, you know, like we've got the U.S. is falling apart. Israel is in having a severe legitimacy crisis and they're switching prime ministers, you know, and because over the last round and the world order is in danger of falling apart. I mean, like, and I agree with you that they don't have that much control. I mean, I think for all the control they had, I don't think that they could have predicted Trump or Brexit. I think it terrified them.

And that's why they're rolling out everything they have to regain control of the narrative potentially even COVID itself. But we're looking at like, I would just watch the recent Sasha Baron Cohen specials, a deeply unfunny individual. Right. It's like, you know, like all the he's got these new specials where Hillary Clinton's on and like they're rolling out. Like, you know, they're, oh, don't believe in conspiracies. None of this is real. All of that. And he's just like, there's nothing funny about him anymore.

Oh, but hold on. This is my point. Here's my point. This is my point about the alien thing, because I'm going to stick up for these crafts. And if I've ended up being humiliated, and it just turns out to be some fucking, you know, really silly attempt to distract people from what's. I'm not saying aliens aren't real, by the way. I'm just saying I don't trust the news. No, I know.

I know. I know. I know. And I can't remember the comics. I'm comic tweeted. Now that the government is saying they're real is the first time I stop believing him. I wish I could remember the comic. My apologies if you listen to the podcast and I didn't give you credit.

It definitely wasn't my tweet. Anyway, the, the, to me, my like very unscientific evidence for the US government, the federal government being way too schizophrenic and disorganized to pull off this level of hoax. Is that very kind of thing? Because I am 100% for the vaccine and I'm very excited about MRNA medical advancements and the ability to reprogram my DNA. I love it. It's fucking cool. I'm excited about it. We differ on that, but that's cool.

Yeah, it's cool. Well, yeah, why you don't, you know, if I understand how that creeps people out. But with my just basic understanding of, you know, human beings and people who are into like quote conspiracy theories or examining like the outskirts and the fringes of things. The way to make sure they don't take a fucking vaccine is to do the kind of campaign that they're doing to get people to get vaccinated. Because, you know, you like these people who are the ones who are refusing to get vaccinated, most of them, they don't want to hear whoever the fuck it is. You know, Gal Gadot or I don't know, Sasha Barrico or Hillary Clinton telling them to get vaccines. They don't believe they don't. They're scared of them.

They think they're drinking baby blood. You know what I mean? So, so, so if they can't even pull off the kind of propaganda you would need to pull off to get people to get this new, the mRNA, whatever the COVID vaccine, then how the fuck are you going to pull off aliens? How are you going to do that? But they're just they're just releasing clips of supposed things. It's just another thing they're pushing in the media. Whether people believe it or not. They're having hearings.

It's not there's hearings. You've got like Senate. You've got this report coming out. You know, it's not just that. And it's also you're getting like levels of disclosure from various governments, including the most recently, the fucking Chinese government. So, I mean, I just don't my friends. And again, those of you out there who are with on team Jason and this one, what do I know? You know, I'm just using my own like,

Well, I don't know either. But I'm just very cynical. And I think that it's clearly it's it's because the governments may not be coordinated in the way that we think, but the media is very coordinated. And we know that and they're lockstep in the narratives that they push. See, you're cynical about the possibility of this actually being an advanced technology. I'm cynical about government being that fucking powerful. Like, that's not what I said. I didn't say that.

Like, basically, I'm saying that the media is that powerful to push a narrative. We see them do it every week. They get their memos from the CIA, and then they push that narrative. And you can watch crosscut videos on YouTube of like 50 different anchors saying the exact same lines. Oh, yeah. When people in the government saying them, those are just those just drones, those people. And I agree with you. That's a good point.

They're people reading. They're people reading CIA press releases. It's not a conspiracy theory. That's just the way that it is. I think the media, you know, is organized because they're run by like, what, two corporations who just send out the same fucking memos. Yeah. But they also get memos from the CIA, and they all hang out together. But again, it just, I don't know.

We don't have to keep going over this. I get it. We disagree. I just don't, like, if- You just want aliens to be real. No. I know aliens are real. I don't have any doubt that aliens are real.

I just, I want to be able to, like, fly to fucking Paris in four seconds. Well, you know, with aliens, there's really only two questions, right? It's like, can we fuck them or can we eat them? Come on. Why? There's a lot of other questions about aliens. What else do human beings do, you know? It's like, what, you want to learn galactic knowledge from them?

No, man. We got to figure out if we can grill them. Make them- No. You forgot the one really hot. This is, as I'm, like, thinking about all the possibilities of, if it happened to be aliens, I was just thinking, like, Jesus, what if they're, like, you know, they're just good at technology, but they're really dumb and, like- Like us, you mean?

Yeah, yeah, but even more so. Are they kind of gullible? Like, we think they're coming here to, like, you know, what do they're, whatever, alien thing, but then as it turns out, like, they're just, like, kind of gullible and not really, and kind of naive. You know what I mean? And then we- You're going to start seeing them in line at Walmart.

Yeah. Yeah, we just end up taking, taking their UFOs from them. Like, we end up, like, taking their home planet from them because they're like, yeah, you could have our planet. I don't know what a contract is. Space imperialism. Yeah, we think they're the great emperors, but as it turns out, they just happened upon one of the more manipulative species in the universe and we get them, you know?

Yeah. No, it's totally true, right? People are all scared of aliens. It's like, have you seen humans lately? Humans are the most dangerous thing in the universe. So, like, yeah, in 50 years, when Earth is called Amazon Earth and we have an Amazon moon, a gulag, I'm sure that Bezos will be looking into annexing, opening up the new market of the alien home world and perhaps annexing it to the Amazon empire.

Well, you know, this is, where I get a little cynical and dismal is just knowing that my, you know, my kids aren't going to be able to see an uncluttered moon. Thanks to Better Out for supporting this episode of the DTFH. Are you feeling like the same thing I'm feeling? A lot of people are feeling right now. A little wobbly, a little weird. Yeah, the pandemic seems to be ending, but holy shit, there's so much that we got a process about what just happened to us during the last 16 months and Better Help is a great

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This is like, this is the last period that we get to enjoy a completely empty moon. It's going to be like the Amazon smile on it or there's just going to be a billboard with different things every day. Just cities. It'll just be cities and bubbles and factories and, you know, like in the factories won't even have any regulation. It'll be some kind of like processing facilities for people who are mining asteroids or, you know what I mean, a place to like recycle space junk.

You'll see plumes of like, I don't know, weird shit flying off the moon as they test bizarre weapons up there. And like, and then to me, I think they're going to get like hamburger wrappers. Well, I guess, you know, you're going to get space junk falling in your backyard. That's going to be real common is just the rain of space junk falling out of the sky. It'll be like when people drive by in a truck and throw trash at you, you know, but it will just be constantly falling out of the moon. But don't, you know, when people are showing the pictures of like the Musk satellite array

shooting by and, you know, some people are like, this is amazing. But some people are like, wait, what? You can't just, you're going to have this glowing shit up in the sky now forever. No one's regulating this. There's no one like saying, like, wait, I don't think we want our skies filled up with like glowing satellites that are making trillions of dollars for billionaires. And, but it's like, we'll try to stop it. And it's going to get worse because I think a lot of this technology is going to somehow

get easier and easier to obtain to the point where it's like, you know, it's not going to be like SpaceX. It's going to be like Frederick and sun satellite launching, you know, and just like obnoxious shit floating up there, like, like, like pop ups that you can never turn off. Just, you know, you know, like shit from, from, from like, you know, some like group group of, you know, technologists in, you know, I don't know, Yugoslavia decided that they wanted to shoot a kind of like holographic cube with an ass jiggling in it just for fun. For like online poker or something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. And then on top of that is going to be the inevitability of just some group, you know, because this is the thing. This is, this is, this is where things are going to get really interesting in the coming years is right now. Anytime we get a display of some amazing whatever, whether it's a propaganda, a high powered propaganda campaign run by some intelligence organization to distract people from the classism

and what just happened over the pandemic or whether it's some motherfucking hyper advanced crazy new ship that's flying around up there. We always think it's the, it's the Russians, the Chinese, the CIA, the UK, whatever, you know, but as I think as technology becomes more accessible, we are not even going to have that luxury anymore where we think, oh, it must be some state sponsor that did that. It's going to be increasingly smaller and smaller groups of people who just had some money and were able to throw together like the exact same kind of laboratories or facilities that right now are only.

That sounds, that sounds awesome actually. That sounds very exciting. You know, it's like people can DIY do like maker culture spacecraft. Exactly. There was a group, there was an cult Marxist group in the nineties in England called the Autonomous Astronauts Association and their whole thing was seize the means of space travel and they were all like ravers. They were like, you know, like, you know, E casualties, right?

But it's like their whole thing was, you know, we need to seize them. And I totally think this is on point. We need to seize the means of getting into inner space and outer space for people. It's like, so they were really into, you know, psychedelic exploration, but also building, you know, like, you know, can we build, can you build a rocket to get to the moon in your garage? Yeah. Just theoretically.

Now, you know, we may be entering a world where that's, that's possible. You know, that's why you're breaking my heart with this fucking Project Bluebeam shit, Lou, because, because, you know, this is if this technology wants to believe it's not that one. God damn it. I don't want to believe in aliens. Honestly, the aliens. I don't care about as much.

LMAO's Jason. It's the personal autonomous craft that I've interested in. It's like the, to me, what that represents is, is if it's real, the possibility of just what those awesome ravers were talking about. And, and that is exciting to me. And that's the, that's the, that's what I want to believe the alien thing. Honestly, I don't want to necessarily believe the fucking aliens. I mean, I think this whole, it's going to be like Star Trek or they're benevolent or

something is ignoring like the karma of the entire human race. You know what I mean? Oh shit. Yeah. They're going to be like DMV workers, you know, but you can't get, get the crackest smile. But while I agree with you, you know, it's like, it's space travel is the destiny of humanity. And for me, the only thing that matters, which drives me, which is why it drives me crazy is when we see people just like doing their like, you know, communist tear down of Elon Musk.

It's like, yeah, like everyone knows Elon Musk is kind of a dick. Okay, great. But who cares, right? The point is that he's the guy building the lifeboats. Stop trying to poke holes in the lifeboats. Yeah. Leary, Burroughs, Brian Geissen all said, and you know, the destiny of humanity is to become a multi-planetary species.

Period of the end. If we don't do that, I mean, I wrote a small e-book about this in 2010. I basically said, you know, we've now hit 8 billion people, right? We hadn't at the time. We're going to be at 9 billion in 2050, the majority of which will be Muslims, right? I mean, that's just how it is. I'm not putting a value judgment on that. I'm just saying that that's, that's what the world is going to look like in 2050.

We'll be a predominantly Islamic planet, but we will be at 9 billion, which is way over carrying capacity. And so if you just think about that with the population increase, we really are only going to end up looking at two futures. One is space travel, and where we get more space to put people, moon, Mars, that's the positive outcome. That's what we should be putting all of our chips on, and just forget, just forget all these ridiculous political fights that people are resurrecting from 100 years ago, right? Just forget it.

Like, we're going to run out of space, so we need multi-planets. And what else? We're just going to be boiling in our own filth otherwise. And I think that the other future we're staring down, and we're already seeing intimations of it, unfortunately, with how at each other's throats people have become, is genocide. And I don't mean one people genociding another. I mean probably competing genocides. And that's a real, that's a future nobody wants to go to.

Nobody wants that. So, except for very damaged people who have a severe deficit of creative thinking, right? And probably didn't get held enough when they were young. So, we... We're held too much. Yeah, well, that too. So, we need living, you know, we need galactic, Liban's realm, you know? It's like we need living space, and the only way to do that is colonize the moon and Mars.

So, I think that any other agenda, including perhaps even the ecological agenda, because the thing fueling the ecological crisis is population. Well, that's not the only thing. I mean, because it's corporations polluting, but those corporations are polluting to fulfill the needs of so many people to create products for them. So, it's not so cut and dry, but the only thing that I think matters is space travel. And I've worked a lot in space travel. I used to work for Buzz Aldrin and, you know, the Indian space program, the American space

program, and things like this, because that's how important it is. So, I'm with you, and I think that the whole autonomous angle of people seizing the means of space travel, doing it for themselves, so that it's not just... I mean, about 10 years ago, it was just the government. Now, it's governments and private companies. We should, I think, literally, we should have a future where you can create a spaceship with like a raspberry pie and some plywood. But that's what we're looking at.

That would be awesome. This is, you know, as I revisited, the singularity is near. I just wanted to check it out. It was on my bookshelf. I hadn't picked it up for a while. You know, it's amazing how accurate he is reading it now. And because his map to freedom is not just space travel. It's, you know, transcending all human boundaries, including genetic composition, including,

you know, obviously lifespan, but including, like, you know, the ability to just recode our DNA completely. And that's what this fucking mRNA vaccine is. Whether you're for it or against it, he was writing about how this is one of the milestones to look for as we're approaching this event that he has prognosticated along with a lot of other people. It's the technologists' version of the apocalypse. And so his, you know, it's not just that we, like, are able to travel in space.

It's that we, our identities get sort of, I don't know, dandelined out into the, into the cloud, out into space, that we fractalize through this technology that is, by the way, it's actually happening. This shit, like, you know, I don't know if you've been following, like, the Google AIs protein folding stuff. Have you looked into that at all? No. So this is another of his landmarks is like, once we can figure out how to do the same

kind of protein folding that our bodies do when they're like, when they're constructing cells, and then somehow there's a way to control that via some AI. That's one of the pathways to. That's, that's, yeah, I mean, really, you really want Google and control of that? Well, yeah. Yeah. I'm okay with it. Like, I mean, only because I recognize my own impermanence on the planet.

And, and I recognize the, I don't have that same feeling some people do of like, they're being a diabolical quality to, you know, technology or they, I think Google is. But that's such a blanket value statement because there's so much technology and everything is technology now. You can't just blanket say technology is good or bad. We're talking about a vast, vast, you know, ravine of shit. I think we're going to see there's going to be the, however you want to put it, the, like with a Elon Musk going to the fucking, going to Mars, do I want to go to more Elon

Musk's Mars? You know what I mean? Where he's the emperor of Mars, you know, or there's like, I don't know what that's going to be like. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to go to a Mars that is necessarily completely under the control of SpaceX or Tesla or whatever it may be. Though I think it'd be pretty cool. I mean, he goes to Burning Man.

He's not, you know, he can't be that bad, but it's very likely going to be predominantly Chinese control. They've really laughed us on that project. Well, that, but I'm, all I'm saying is that the pathway to whatever this next thing is, it's not like the, the Sherpas along this pathway are necessarily going to meet the expectations of people who are going to want to go down that path. Well, I agree with you. I'll say, however, that my esoteric and spiritual goal in this world, if you will, is, is to

always push for higher individual autonomy, period, in all cases. Yes. And that's, that's the lemma, right? So I think that a couple of things, I will say that one of the reasons why the singularity is near seems so scarily accurate in reverse is not because of its predictive power, but because it's the script people have been working off of, including the Davos set. And, and all, and, you know, that, that hit at such a level and it was pushed so hard that, and that's why people have to be very careful about the scripts they write for the

future, because they can come true. And particularly if a lot of money is thrown behind them, or if they simply inspire, but like when you look at Star Trek from the 60s, everything from Star Trek is now real. The view screen, the, the, the, that basically the iPhone they carry around all these things. Yeah. They're all 3D printers, you know. So in terms of this, I'll just give you my statement about what I think about things that are happening genetically, right?

I think that we should have a universal declaration of genetic freedom. And what that means is that we are now entering, whether we like it or not, the, the mRNA vaccine, which we still don't, is still not approved and we still don't have long-term data on what it's going to do, right? And, and this is, and so there are, so my feeling about that is, that should be the individual's choice, right? And there are many healthcare professionals who don't want to get it because it's, there hasn't been enough study, it hasn't been approved, etc.

I think it's become so emotionally charged that everyone should have the individual freedom to choose on that and that decision should be respected, whether it's for or against. And I think that that's a springboard to a larger conversation. This conversation is not just this year. We're going to be having this conversation for as long as we're alive. Yes. Because like you're saying, this is the opening salvo in, like for instance, you look at Moderna, it doesn't even describe what they're producing as a vaccine because it's not a vaccine.

It's a genetic therapy, but they describe it on their website as a technology platform onto which other apps can be loaded. And that gives you a preview of where this is going. So we're obviously entering the CRISPR era. We're entering an era of infinitely genetic custom, custom ability. There will be great things about that. There will be not so great things about that. There could be very dark futures where, for instance, slave races are engineered or

genetically targeted bio weapons could be engineered. Oh, for sure. So I think that one of the... I'm not a Luddite. I'm not anti-technology. I am concerned about mass social narratives and how easily controlled and how easily people surrender at how they are, how they demonstrated that in the last year. So I think that we need to...

The last time we did a podcast, I was saying you should take the U.S. Constitution as a syllabus almost. We need to re-establish the sovereignty of the individual because it's been all but completely lost in the last few years. And people should be reminded that their life is theirs to decide about, not anyone else. And I think as long as we go into that, and that includes genetics, if people choose to alter their genetics in whatever way, because there will probably be infinite ways, which is very exciting, particularly for perhaps an autistic person, Jen was always for it.

He said we should actually cut the genesis on the subject of space travel. He said, why don't we engineer ourselves to be able to hibernate like bears with bare DNA to sleep on long space flights? Yeah. Or with tardigrade stuff. Folks, that's Genesis P. Oridge from Psychic TV. Some people might not know who that is. Sorry to chase you.

Thank you. Yeah. So my mentor, who very, very, very, very sadly died right at the beginning of COVID. So it is obviously a next frontier. So here's a little fact, but I think that we need a statement of individual genetic autonomy. And I think that that should be enforced at the UN level, so that people cannot be coerced into altering their genetics. Here's a little fun fact.

But wait, hold on. I have to ask you what you think about this, though, because it's like, if there's, you know, a pandemic is raging, and I'm running a business, and I need to have the people working there not be carriers for a disease, and they don't want to get vaccinated. It should also be my right to not have to employ them. Well, that's it. That then becomes a question for the labor movement, I think.

Right. Because there's similar ethical issues on, for instance, the use of new tropics like Madoffinol, right? Where it's like, well, now we have Madoffinol, which massively increases worker productivity, particularly on paperwork, without a doubt, although there are lots of side effects, so I'm not recommending it. And anyone who says it's not addictive is not telling you the truth, right? So therefore, does this now pose an ethical issue?

This was studied at King's College, London. Does this now pose an ethical issue that people, if they're not on Madoffinol, will now no longer be up if they choose not to alter themselves chemically, perhaps dangerously? Will they now no longer, they will now not only perhaps fall out of any ability for promotion or raises or ability to move up the ladder, or will they perhaps not even be able to get a job at all, particularly when we're entering the A.I. age? And so we're now they're competing with, they're essentially competing with A.I.s and enhanced humans.

Yes. Elon Musk is talking about neural link. What about neural link? Are you going to have to have a neural link just to compete? So these are questions for professional ethicists, I think. They are probably above my pay grade. But I return to what I said, which is that my stance on everything is the absolute autonomy of the individual, because we can just simply look at history,

that every time that's been ceded to outside parties, whether it's a government or the Catholic Church, or the results are not good. And so this is my spiritual mandate, in a sense, the Thalemic View. So interestingly enough, on the fact of genetic modification, I was actually there when they sequenced the human genome. What do you mean? Well, literally. I mean, when the genome was sequenced, there was a public and a private team,

and the public team was at UC Santa Cruz, where I was a student. And I went to interview the people for the student newspaper. So I was there, literally, like six hours after they completed the genome. And it was just like three or four people, and it was tremendous. And one of the things they discovered right then was that traits are not nearly as heritable as we think, and the idea that you're the same as your parents or the same as your ancestors, or excuse me, it was, and I may have this wrong so geneticists don't at me, because I'm not fully, I may have this slightly off.

But at the time, I remember it was that genetically inherited traits can be changed with behavioral modification. You can literally change your genetics, and now we have the whole field of epigenetics, which is really exciting. So my first book came out a few years later, which is Generation Hex, which is sadly now out of print. But the last thing that I say in that book, you know, that book was a book about, it came out when I was 23, 24, and it was about what's the future of magic,

and it was an anthology, and I went all over the world. I went to India. I became studied shamanism in Nepal and the Himalayas. I tried to meet every single magician I could in America and London and figure out what is this and where is it going. And the conclusion that I came to, the last bit of the book is, and a lot of this was inspired by the Jeremy Norby book, The Cosmic Serpent, which is, you've probably heard this, there are lots of reports of people on,

particularly ayahuasca, but not just ayahuasca, also DMT, but also in altered states of consciousness, where quite literally, quite possibly talking to their DNA. People, Jeremy Norby says that the light photons you experience while in those deep psychedelic states may actually be photons emitted by DNA, while it's being quote unquote activated, and I don't mean that in the New Age way. And so, and one of the conclusions, like I'm very pragmatic, as you can tell, like I'm not a supernaturalist.

I think that there's an obvious explanation for everything in magic, but I don't think that that's demystifying. I think that that's really exciting. And one of the things you can probably argue about, you know, the psychedelic experience, or the magical experience, the transmeditative experience, is what's really happening, is you're not really communicating with beings outside of you and all that. You're going inwards and communicating with your own cells, right? Or your body, and anyone who's done vipassana will understand this.

Or anyone who's taken DMT, because you can clearly see, like, what you're seeing there, maybe it's not aliens, maybe it's cell membranes, and mitochondria, and things like that. So, for a while, I thought that this was too demystifying. It's like, I want there to be demons and angels and to be John Constantine and all this stuff, but maybe it's even more exciting. And if we actually have this technology, this quote, unquote, archaic technology of shamanism and magic and psychedelic shamanism, maybe that's what exactly, maybe that's why there's so much interest now, maybe that's what we use to actually talk to our DNA before we start fucking with it.

Like, what if we were able to talk directly to the DNA and say, like, hey, we have this technology now to modify you and potentially change the structure of DNA, which, by the way, is the same for all life on the Earth. It's just shuffled like a tarot deck, you know, same as RNA, as far as I understand. And be like, hey, if we're going to start modifying you, how should we proceed? And that becomes like a partnership. And interestingly enough, Francis Crick, who discovered DNA while on acid, he saw it in an acid trip. Yeah, so I've heard. He's now canceled, very sadly, and he had to sell his own Nobel Prize to eat.

What did he cancel for? I don't remember. Francis Crick has canceled? He said something that was construed as scientific racism, I think. I don't remember the details, so don't quote me. You would have to look it up, but I did hear that he had to sell his Nobel Prize. There's Crick and Watson, right? Crick and Watson, and they kind of lifted the idea from their lab assistant as the legend goes.

But I think Crick was pals with Huxley, right? That's where the, that's the acid connection. I don't know. My understanding is he did acid and saw the double helix molecule. I think that's, well, that's a big part of it. And I think that, so he wrote a book in 1981 called Life Itself, which is one of the craziest books I've ever read. Well, he basically said that in his current understanding, what he thinks is, he believes that he's a believer in the panspermia hypothesis, which is that some bit of DNA crash landed here.

It was hidden in liquid or in a meteor or something crash landed here. And all it takes is one little strand of DNA, which is like the Kundalini or the cosmic serpent, right? And now it starts proliferating in the water that's on the earth. It's like primed for it. And now literally one DNA strand or one bit of DNA will produce all life on earth. I think he actually was a believer, or at least he wrote this essay on what's called directed panspermia. What's that? It's that the DNA didn't land there accidentally.

That it was seeded there by some advanced civilization. Maybe, or maybe it itself directed itself to come here. Right. So in my way of thinking, there's only one life form on earth. It's DNA. It produces all of this. This is all one organism. Yes.

All organic life is one organism. And therefore, but it would also make sense if you were DNA and you wanted to hop to another planet, you would evolve monkeys with things like genetic engineering in order to modify it to now get off world to other planets to spread. So maybe it's all part of one big natural process. Well, if so, maybe we should have that conversation and merge so much of what I do is try to merge high technology and archaic shamanism or archaic techniques of interspace exploration. Because I think interspace and outer space exploration are the same thing. I agree 100% with that. And, you know, I think the one one of as I was revisiting the singularities near one of the things I began to realize was like somehow I'd misinterpreted it. I'd misinterpreted what Kurzweil was saying as though he was implying there was some choice in the matter.

Anyway, that that when in fact he he's just pointing out like someone told me that Karl Marx didn't invent communism. Karl Marx identified this thing that happens in cultures. And then Kurzweil is doing a similar thing, but for evolution and saying, look, this is just what's going to happen. It's it's there's no way to stop it. We're talking about a combination of Moore's law, exponential growth, meeting the thalamic, you know, intuition of any, any human being, that thing inside of us that wants to be purely autonomous, purely free, not just free from, you know, human oppression, but in, you know, free from all perceived boundaries and barriers. You know, and it's not like even some noble trait necessarily, just hang out with the toddler. You know, like it's built in there, they go, they try to find exactly where they're not supposed to go, and they try to push to the very edge.

And if they can go over it, they'll go over it. That's human. That's what we are. And so, you know, I think this, all the stuff that's happening right now, all the turbulence. All of it is is related to people attempting to suppress that, not wanting that to happen, wanting you to be the whatever is that you think it's scary as fuck, man. It's like, you know, a lot of people are really, really do whether even if they're suffering, they kind of like it the way it is. It's like, they don't want to give up the belief that, well, you know, you are this when you're born. If you have a dick, you're a dude.

If you have a vagina, you're a lady. They don't, they don't want to give that up. They don't want to give up the idea that like, oh, well, you see that actually we just, you're making us, you want me to play the fucking avatar that was assigned to me in the video game. And I want to go to the avatar engineering screen and decide what I look like in this particular, you know, dimension. Yeah. And that fucks people's minds up because they believe that whatever you're assigned at birth is what you are. It's an identity of problem, right? People don't want to get to the root of the situation, which is that, you know, maybe what you think you are isn't even real.

Especially if that thing that you think you are is based on a combination of like, you know, genetic traits that are perceived by other people. You know, like, maybe it's just take IQ, for example, man, it goes into the doffano thing that you were talking about earlier. It's like, what's going to happen when we can, when we figure out a way to use whatever this technology is or CRISPR or whatever to, you know, increase the language center of our brain. I was just watching a great Stanford lecture on this. It's called like Fox P2 or something. It's like some specific gene related to being effusive when you speak and they actually put it in mice. And the mice started like squeaking more and laughing more and like, but humans have a real amplified version of that. So what happens when we start altering that?

And now people, everyone's becoming, who can afford it, they're becoming these articulate, incredible conveyors of ideas. Oh, that's the key phrase, right? Who can afford it? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Or those who aren't afraid of it or those who don't have cultural prohibitions in place to keep them from doing it. So what ends up happening with this shit is something that I think there is a precedent for it. It just doesn't happen this fast, which is that species split.

And that's what, that's what, that's what would happen. Did you see that movie, Elysium with Matt Damon? It's been a long time. But I am a Matt Damon fan. Yeah. Matt Damon. It's not a good movie, like as a movie. The plot sucks.

It's like Matt Damon's really like cardboard in it, whatever. But the setup is amazing, which is that basically the whole world looks like the slums of Rio. And yet all the super rich people who are all transhumanists are living off world in this floating O'Neill colony. Oh yeah, I remember it now. Where they can live forever and they're genetically modified and it's like literally heaven and hell. And then Matt, and then the rest of the movie is ridiculous. Matt Damon like jumps up there with cyber legs and Katana fights people. It's ridiculous.

It's stupid. But the setup is, I think, like there are two movies that I think possibly three, but there are two movies that I think come closer to an accurate vision of the future than any in terms of successful science fiction than any other. One is Elysium. The other one is Idiocracy. Right. Right. Maybe Wally, maybe.

But it's such a plausible future. And I think we're seeing it happen already where you got like the Davos people wanting to do that as fast as possible. They want their private Elon Musk spaceships. They already are building vast underground bunker networks underneath New Zealand to bug out into when all the unwashed common people start getting cross that they have taken everything from them. So I think that something like that is quite likely. And so it's going to be an interesting century for sure. But at the end of the day, not always, but ultimately, so not in the not in the micro level, but ultimately what matters is the only ethical stance that I think matters in the long scale of history is whether or not the human race survives. Maybe not even that, honestly, it's just whether life survives.

And so obviously we don't want a nuclear war. We don't want a AI proliferation event that kills all life in the universe with paper clips. Yeah, the infinite paper clip scenario. Can you describe that for folks who might not be familiar with that so fucking creepy? It's a thought experiment, which is essentially you program an AI and there's a specific phrase for it, which I forget utility of gain or something like that. Where you tell an AI to make paper clips, but it has control over its own algorithm and it doesn't know where to stop. And so it has access to nanotechnology that can repurpose matter. So it ends up turning the entire universe into infinite Microsoft paper clips.

So it's a thought experiment, but it's an actual thing that has to be considered with AI ethics, which is something else I've worked with Google on that. You can see on YouTube, there's a video of me talking with Google on AI ethics and I put a lot of thought into this as well. It's like, you know, AI, you know, we're very quickly entering. In fact, I think we may already have entered it where AI outmodes almost all need for human labor. And it seems perhaps plausible to me that the whole shutdown of the world is not actually about COVID. I'm not a COVID denier, but perhaps it's not actually about COVID. Maybe I think I said this on your last podcast. As much as it is, they're going to turn on the AI and they want people to blame something that is not people in power for the fact they have no jobs.

Oh, right. Well, I mean, I think no matter what that was, you know, when you look at like the big picture problems, that's one that is another one that no one was paying attention to or even now is paying much attention to. Which is just that. It's like, yeah, there's pretty soon we're not going to need humans to do much anything anymore. And yeah, so that's one, including mining asteroids, stand up comedy, podcasts. I heard mining, mining ass when you said that. That's all you're going to need. Essentially, that's all that's going to be left is we have to eat each other's ass with a raceful thought. This is the future that. No, that's the movie I'm making.

This is the future Zoomers want. This is what big Zoomer wants. No, it sounds like the plot of a porn movie that I would find in my dad's drawer in the 80s. Oh, the primal scene, the primal moment. We should talk about aliens and magic and how aliens are real because we're talking about politics again. Well, you know, yeah, but I think we were talking about a little bit more than politics. But yes, let's jump into that part. How now tell me how aliens and magic intersect and please definitely let me know how aliens are real. I want to believe.

All I can do is share my experience, which is that in my understanding, it's the same with the magical experience. Aliens are quote unquote real. They're just extra dimensional, not extraterrestrial. They existed other frequencies of consciousness, which is non-corporeal. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, and so OK, let me ask you this. Is there a is it a different terrain that they're in? Or is it like they're sharing the same sort of coordinate of space time as we are?

But because of their different whatever frequency, vibrational frequency, we just can't see him. But they're here with us right now. Yes. So think about it like this, right? When you have dreams about either other people or beings or whatever it is, or when you have waking daydreams, or when you perhaps have hallucinogenic experiences. Yeah. Or when you have trans experiences by doing magic ritual or hypnosis, things like this. And you're for all intents and purposes experiencing a kind of inner virtual reality.

And for most people, the dream experience is the easiest one to understand. But it's basically similar for all these things and slight differences in one being that you're awake. What are you interacting with? Right now, the most hard-headed Victorian materialist would say, Oh, don't be silly. Or I'm going to put on Neil DeCrasse Tyson voice. Oh, don't be silly. That's just your dreams.

Right. And so in the same way we have, you know, magic gets shut off for people when their teacher comes along and says, Quit daydreaming. Focus on this bullshit paperwork, which they then have to do for the rest of their life. Right. So if I was to give one bit of information, which opens up the whole world of magic for anyone, regardless of any of the other stuff, it's just that your imagination is a sensory organ. That's so cool.

It's that simple. Yeah. It really is that simple. It's not fake, but we were all convinced. We were all abused in a way by being told your imagination isn't real. Focus on the here and now be realistic. Right. Well, but think about everyone who's ever done anything.

And then in theory, the be realistic is so that you can then get a job in, you know, a modern day factory and support a family and do all the bullshit, right? Right. But look at all the people who have been truly successful in life, whether it's incredible artists, actors or business people. Yeah. They don't turn that off. They're tripping the light fantastic and having, you know, visualizing what they want.

Right. And they're using those faculties. They're imagining anyone who creates a new business or product, it has to exist in imagination first. Yeah. And then they have to have the will to bring it into reality. And that's how every single advance in human history, regardless of culture has happened. Right. Somebody, somebody imagined something that didn't quote unquote exist.

It wasn't quote unquote real and then made it real. Okay. So this is why you're saying watch out with the Ray Kurzweil stuff or watch out with a big cultural prognostications because that's just someone's imagination. Yes. Sort of unfolding that reality into the world via this thing that some people call magic. That's not because they've done an analysis of trends. Well, part of it may be quote unquote divination.

Part of it is trend analysis, but we know that the world cannot be predicted or controlled. It just can't, period, even with the most advanced AI in the world. Right. You can't, right? And this is of great comfort to me. But then you get into the idea of magical wars, competing shamans. Lots of people have different views for the future. Hitler had a view for the future.

Right. Yeah. Kurzweil has, I don't trust Kurzweil at all, by the way, because he's backed by all these big corporations. I'm taking his vitamins. I feel pretty good. Super male vitality. Yeah.

No, what's it called? I'm sorry. It's super. Super. This is a dumbest name. It's not Kurzweil's though, but Alex Jones. Is it Alex? No, there's a name on Fox for this shit.

It's called super male. Anyway, go ahead. It's not about ordering it. Semen X. Semen X. So everyone's got a view. When people do this profit hat, this is what's been happening for all human history. I see the future.

No, you don't. You're just selling me a vision of the future, which if I buy into, I will now lend my power into creating. Everything in human history is that. Then we get into the wider issue of competing views, but just think about it on the individual level. It's like your imagination is a sensory organ. If you train your imagination, just like you would your body at a gym, and you train

it through meditation, through writing your dreams down as the best way to start, through magical ritual, through visualization, like lots of people tell me the most common things I get from students are, hey, I can't remember my dreams. And B, I can't visualize. Okay. Well, for A, I can't remember my dreams. Train it. Write your dreams down every morning, and you will remember them.

B, if you can't visualize, work on visualization exercises every day, and you'll be able to visualize. There are some people with aphasia and things like this. So there are neurological conditions that make it difficult, but that aside, all of these things can be trained, and this is what I teach at magic.me. My magic school, all these things can be trained, and then when you use that imaginative capacity, when you get over the abuse of what we were told not to use it, well, that's the thing that, this is how Francis Crick discovered DNA.

This is like all these, and this is how the car was invented. People used to say, we can't fly. There's no way, they said, there's no way anyone will ever be able to go to the moon, and somebody was crazy enough to imagine it and then make it real. And I think we know as human beings, there's nothing we can't do, ultimately, on a long enough time scale. Now, the question where it gets really weird is, if your imagination is a sensory organ, well, what exactly are you contacting?

Yeah. Are you projecting all of it and making it up, or actually are you perhaps? And this is a controversial question, and I go back and forth on this one. But is your imagination perhaps like a radio tune or that you're tuning to other frequencies and your brain isn't so much creating it as it's receiving it? Your experience, and that's why, for instance, anyone who does a ritual to talk to a certain archangel is going to have a similar experience. Anyone who does a ritual to talk to Ganesh is going to have a similar experience, right,

because they're tapping into that frequency. And I think actually the internet is an amazing metaphor. It's like, think of your brain as your computer and your imagination and your directed intent, your will, and particularly the use of sigils and magical technology, is you're accessing different websites, you know? Yeah. If you think about it like that. But maybe there's other people interacting there too.

Maybe there's other beings, other entities in those chat rooms. And so that's where I come at the alien question, because there are absolutely alien frequencies of consciousness. Absolutely, right? And so then we can ask, well, if we want to be very reductive about it and be like, all Carl Jung about it, which all Joseph Campbell about it, we can say, well, they're just archetypes in the collective unconscious. Well, that's a halfway measure in my way of thinking that believing in the whole collective

unconscious thing, it kind of like dead ends people, because you got to get past that. That's a good way to talk to normies about things. Right. But you got to get past that to saying, well, actually, maybe we're swimming in something that's real and is not just psychological projection or a Freudian slide of hand. So I've had some interesting experiences with aliens in that regard now that I've set it up. So another bit of context is, you know, I did brachian therapy for four years, right? And brachian therapy is basically Freudian talk therapy combined with body,

very painful muscle massage, very painful. Is it related to roughing? Yeah, roughing is a step down version of it. Okay. But it's similar, right? So the idea is that you do very painful muscle massage to release trauma and buried memories that have been locked up in your musculature. Right.

Right. And it's very potent. Sounds cool. I somehow I missed that about you. I didn't know that you studied that that long. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was a fairly ineffective person until I went through it. I mean, there's bad things about it too, but it helped me embody much more in the world. Wow. Become a much more physically embodied person instead of just like, before that I was like, literally like, like I couldn't speak to anyone. I had no ability to verbalize. Can you imagine? No, that is not my Jason.

Right. I was just like this floating field merging into the landscape. So anyways, my rachian therapist said to me at one point, something very interesting, which is that he's had tons of patients who've told him about aliens or having dreams about aliens or experiences with aliens. And that they were all people who were alienated from society. Like that they had met, like they were alienated from their body and they were alienated. Like they could not interface with society and they themselves felt alien and it was

then their body was manifesting because I also think it's like when we're visualizing things, it's not just or when we're contacting frequencies of consciousness, even just in our day to day internal monologue. It's not just, it's not your brain generating it. It's your entire physiology. That's really important to understand. And so the experience of being an outcast, which I know very well, very, very well and an alien and somebody who is looked at as alien by other people for whatever reason, right?

Like you're, you don't fit in, right? Yeah. I would imagine the immigrant experience is probably quite similar, right? For first generation immigrants. Yeah. And that then is generating this feeling of well, you know, of alien or I'm talking to aliens, but it's the self projecting the self to try and understand it. But even so, that doesn't mean that quote unquote aliens don't exist, right?

It just means that somebody who is on, somebody who is resonating at that frequency of feeling alien is going to be close to the frequency of aliens. Okay. That's cool. Right. Yeah. Wow. That's very exciting for some of my listeners.

I would imagine too. That's definitely a nice alchemical working you did there because, and I love that sort of thing where you show people like, Oh, this, this thing that maybe you've viewed as a, maybe a problem or potentially an undesirable condition is a bridge to something completely wildly amazing. Sure. And if you choose to do that, although that doesn't necessarily lead to a very happy life because to have a happy life, you need to be whatever your crazy stuff is.

And you can tell I'm, I'm an odd thinker. You have to be able to be embodied and physical and able to interface with it. And I teach my students that too. You have to, you cannot check out. You have to be fit. You know, the biggest challenge for magical people usually is not the techniques of magic and is not getting onto the astral and exploring all these crazy realms of consciousness. It's dealing with physical reality here and now.

It's kind of, it's not, you know, like normies, quote unquote, find it very difficult to access any of this stuff. Right. They get scared. That's not real. What are you talking about? Yeah. It's just not in, it's not going to happen.

Right. And that's fine. There's lots of different types of people in the world and we need all of them. But magical people, all that stuff's easy for them usually. What's difficult for them is for them to come down off the trip enough to deal with like physical body and work and a job and relationships. Like that's way harder. Stamps.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. So, so with all of this said, let me give you, you know, one experience that I had with aliens.

Please. Which was very interesting. So in about 2005 or 2004, I think I lived in New York and I was working for disinformation and I was working with Genesis and all of my friends were matching. My generation hex had come out and I was just like 24 seven balls to the wall. Like this is all magic is my existence. It's just like everything. It's like I was, I was, I was wearing the cape as I put it.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I was just doing drugs. Someone I met was doing drugs like constantly. Okay. And my favorite at this time was, you know, I started with psilocybin, psilocybin, which was great.

But my favorite at the time was ecstasy. Also wait, let me stop you for a second. Folks, it might be worth pausing for a moment and just look up psychic TV in Genesis, B origin, because you don't know just someone saying they were hanging out with that person is that's just wild. So I look up the psychic Bible, which I did with Jen. Yeah. Which is like the complete story.

So go ahead. Sorry. So yeah, you can imagine with that kind of world, it's like, you know, all of my friends were basically, you know, psychedelic, trans, shaman, light trippers of the light fantastic, right? And it's New York, which is just this brutal, brutally crushing experience, you know, particularly if you don't have very much money like I didn't, you know, and it's like, you know, I got stories from here to eternity of just like, you know, John Constantine level gritty, gritty madness.

But so I ended up being set up on a date with a very normal person who is very sweet, right? I think it like a friend who worked at it as an A and R rep or something like that recommended that I go out on a date with one of her coworkers. Okay. So we went on a date and I wasn't too crazy. But you know, we're talking about philosophy and things like that. And you know, I was really struggling just to try and interface in a normal relationship. Like my world was like, let's do 15, a stack of 15 drugs and do bizarre fucking S&M rituals

to contact Dimension X, right? Yes. Like in a group, right? It's like, and that's not, and PS, that's not as fun as it sounds. Okay. It really is. It's hard to come back from that. It's, it's, I'm not, I'm not, this isn't an ad.

It's much better. I swear. I'm not just saying this. It is way better to be a normal person. Right. It really is. So, so a part of... I'm going to stop you on the group S&M rituals.

You don't have to go into detail about it, but can you give us a little more detail? Well, what I'm going to tell you is, is, is in a certain direction. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. So because I've, now I got to like, it's such a blur. It's like, it's hard for me to like conceptualize. But so part of me, you know, there was the healthy part of me, because this is an, let

me be clear. This is a very unhealthy lifestyle, right? This is a lifestyle that could have ended up with me dying or overdosing very quickly. So part of, like the healthy part of me was really struggling to be heard and being like, look, you know, like your way, your way out of, out of the comfortable range here. Right. Like, you know, you're, you're a nice young man, like, like, and this is not going to, you're not going to be able to stabilize.

You need to stabilize. You need, you can still do this, but you need to be normal too. Right. So anyway, so I was excited to go on this date. And so we ended up talking about ecstasy, because as you know, when you first discover something like that, it's all you fricking talk about. Absolutely. Right.

It's like, it's like, if you've ever done ecstasy, if you've ever done DMT, if you've ever done psilocybin, oh my God. It's like, and then everyone is just like, yeah. Yeah. But for you, you're like, this is the answer, you know, particularly with MDMA, which in many cases is the answer for trauma and things like this. So, so, so I had gotten a, or someone I met had gotten this stack of MDA, which I don't know if you've, if you have any family or if you were, it's bizarre, right?

It's hard. I don't know. I've only found it the once, but just for those who don't know, MDA was the chemical that was synthesized prior to MDMA. Yeah. And, and it feels like MDMA, so you roll on it, but for whatever reason, there's a visual component and by visual component, I don't mean like psychedelics. I mean, like you literally see things in the room, like what total, totally normal people

think that drugs do, right? It's crazy. So, I was talking about this because I was running my mouth and she decided she wanted to take it. Okay. So, we had not done anything physical. So for whatever reason, stupid things to do, like never do this. I was like, well, let's roll together.

Never do this. First date, first date MDA roll? Well, it wasn't first date, but we hadn't done anything. Okay. So it was like several dates in, but we were just like having chased normal dates. Okay. Not a very nice guy. Not nice guy.

I shouldn't say nice guy. I know what you mean. You weren't like immediately humping her. You hadn't consummated whatever this was going to be. And so you're like, why don't we just get high together? Well, we were also trying to figure out if there was an overlap because we were from such total different worlds. And so my thinking as whatever I was in my earlier mid-20s, I can't remember, was, well,

let's just do E together and then we'll totally vibe and love each other. Huh. Yeah. No, don't know. So anyway, so at long story short, what ended up happening is we decided we were going to do MDMA at her as usual, very tiny, early 20s New York apartment. We both took it. I gave her the spiel and all this, we had lots of water, et cetera, et cetera.

She immediately clammed up. Like she internalized, she put her hoodie on, she did not want to interact. And in that situation, you cannot, young men, men of any age, you cannot push. No. You cannot, you just have to be like, okay, right? Like this is what's happening for you. That's okay. Here's water.

Do you need anything? Right. It's fine. This is okay. This is your experience and I'm sorry you're having a bad time. What can I do to help? At the same time, however, I was rolling hard. So now I had to deal with a very serious trip knowing that the other person there had shut

down and that I somehow now needed to manage this and I cannot be physical. It's like, that's all you want to do on MDMA is touch everything. It's like, can't do that. Nope. So I ended up basically doing the same thing she was doing, which is kind of going into a fetal position and going internal, right? Then the visuals kicked in. So when I say visuals, I mean, like I saw like the body of like a dead shaman starting

to move out of the chair with antlers. It was like this ancient being from Nepal and things like this. But it was like literally there. I wasn't, I mean, I was tripping, but it wasn't like mushrooms or something that's like literally there in the chair. There was like these ghosts and things in the room. And then I closed my eyes and I went internal and I ended up having a couple of experiences. One was I breached into some type of consciousness that I'd never been in.

It was like this bizarre or like liquid hyper rainbow, almost cartoony bizarre landscape where there was this like craze, like distorted UFO creature, but it looked like a cartoon. Yeah, like the kind with a ray gun that zaps around in cartoons, zapping things. And it just looked at me. It was like, what the fuck? Why are you here? Well, why are you here? This is not like you are not supposed to be here.

And it wasn't like DMT or something like that. It was like literally like, this is a mistake, like you are not supposed to be here. And it was like very real. It was like, and it's also unlike anything else I've ever experienced through anything else ever. And it was like some dimension Z bizarre experience. Then I had another experience following that, which is where I saw a gray alien. All right, there's again internally, but the way that I saw it was very interesting. It was the way that I experienced it was not like it was a gray alien.

But the way that I experienced was not like all these cultural depictions and things like that. It looked somewhat similar, but what it was, what it demonstrated to me, it was a completely non, well, not exactly non sexualized. It was a desexualized human being to the point that there's no sexual characteristics whatsoever. It's cold, it's gray, it's clammy, it's sweaty, right? But all the sexual external sexual organs are not there, like smooth, like a great alien. Right. And this is what I mean when I'm talking about like, so this is what I was experiencing physically as well.

Right. So this is what I mean, where your body is always communicating with you. Yeah. So perhaps this is just how I was experiencing my own physical, emotional and mental state. Right. But the gray alien was, it wasn't asexual. What it was, was a human being where all of the sexual ability is directed into magic. And by magic, I mean manifestation like sex magic. Yeah.

And it was not good. It was like, it was basically like I've completely cut off sexuality as a way to be intimate with and interact with other people and used it purely for power. We may know people like this. Yeah. Like sexuality is only for power, only, and by only, I mean 110% only for power. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's what a gray alien was. And it was quite scary. It's like a sociopath. Yeah. That's, it's just like, wow, that's, yeah, that's what, this is their theme when it comes to these things. You know, their report is that they're not pleasant. Yeah. And then you think about all that stuff like probing and, you know, trying to

understand what human beings are. And it, but it was also like an image of myself. It's like, I don't want to become that, you know, particularly with magic and things like that. It's like magic, sex has to just be, it has to be about love and intimacy and connection and reaffirming your humanity. That's what sex should be about at its best. It should be about reaffirming your humanity instead of destroying, you know, abnegating it essentially.

Is that why you mentioned the BDSM rituals? Is because they were like gray alien style experiences or? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. Actually, just that I was in a period in my life where I was, everything in my life was magic, including sex, right? It's like, everything is done for magic. Right. And so it's like, kind of like, well, if you take that far enough, what, you know,

what do you, where, where are you? You know, it's a non-human zone. Yeah. And, and that's not, that's not healthy to say the least, right? So, I mean, isn't, isn't, isn't, isn't a problem of integration though? I mean, I get it. I've never had that kind of experience. And just as a generally horny person, the reason I keep interrogating you about it is

like, I just, it sounds cool because of mine, but I know what you mean. Like it sounds cool in like, as I think about it, but the experience of it. And you know what? I do think there have been times when I've been on the precipice of being like invited into a situation like that. And I bailed because I just sense like, I'm not ready for that. Like, it's the wrong people, plus if it's the wrong people, you don't, you don't want to get wrapped up in that.

Yeah. You could get wrapped up. There was so much, so much crazy potential for confusion there. I, I get it. You know, they, they, but don't you think there is a way to sort of conduct those types of rituals and integrate it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. And integration is the word. By the way, ladies, have I mentioned I'm recently single? True story. Yes, there is a very much, and this is something I put a lot of thought into. And you know, I'm, I'm very conservative these days, not in the Tucker Carlson sense, but in the, you know, I have a very light touch where you know, it's like, it's kind of like the, well, micro dosing versus taking

five dry grams, you know, there's a light touch. I always have a light touch on everything now. It's just like, just enough to be pleasant, but not get it train wrecked. Yes. So, yeah, and integration is the watchword, not just in this, but in, in human life and certainly with, with sober or non-sexual magical practice, which I think is often the best kind actually, it's, it's about integrating. Because it's like, so if we go back to what I was saying about, you know, that

moment where, so that moment where your teacher tells you, stop daydreaming. Yeah. Well, in theory, that's coming from a place of, I want you to be able to integrate into physical, I'm trying to integrate you into the physical world. Cause humans are not integrated with the physical when they're first born. They're, they're still half pastoral, you know, they're not fully embodied yet. You're probably experiencing this as a parent, right? It's amazing.

So, so, and life is a, you know, particularly for quite a while, you know, some people, unlike me, become jocks in high school and probably get it right away. I was not a jock. I convinced them to let me out of gym so that I could read, read HP Lovecraft books in the library. So I was fucked. I'm there, man. No one does gym.

If you can get out of gym, you get the fuck out of gym. Period. Oh, yeah. You don't do gym. Get out of, I mean, I'm not saying that as an advice. Now I wish I could go back and not be completely. I just want to played water polo. If I could go back, you know what I mean?

But like, yeah. But I know what you mean. Anyways, so, so, and this is also something that would manifest so much with the cult people because the cult people are bookworms, right? There are people who, by definition, are people of the book, right? You know, I'm not the only one to have that observation. So, so they're, they're looking, but, you know, the answers are in your body. And Nietzsche said that, you know, there's more wisdom in your body

than in any, any vast as library books on earth. All the books on earth, it's all in your body. And this is something yoga, yoga teachers would always tell me. And I'd be like, yeah, okay. And they're like, drink some water. And I'm like, okay, thank you. But no, they're right. You know, yoga teachers know stuff.

Listen to them. So, um, I'm off track now. But yeah, integration. Integrate. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like that, that moment where your teacher comes and tells you. Pay attention. Well, they're trying to help you have a successful life, right? Because you need to be embodied in the physical. If you can't do your homework, if you can't do paperwork, if you can't deal with drudgery, which is what school is meant to teach you, which we resent. But if you can't do it, you can't live in this world. Right.

You need to learn that. Like you need everything from the magical mindset is necessary. All experiences are, you know, are good experiences because they teach you something that you didn't have otherwise. Right. And that's always good to remember when you're going through a tough time in life, you know, because it's always necessary in retrospect, even if you can't see it at the time.

And even if it's not a tough time, if you're just encountering like the grueling mundane, whatever the fuck it may be, you're standing in line at the DMV because you've got to renew your license or something like that. From the perspective that you're describing, this goes from being a mundane thing to a kind of like spiritual practice or a training in interfacing with the earth realm. Right. Absolutely.

Even Castaneda used to say that it's also training and dealing with the petty tyrants, you know, like dealing with really difficult people with compassion is totally necessary. So, so in a sense, yeah, I mean, we can look back as adults who, you know, I mean, a magician is just someone who's trying an adult who's trying to survive and not lose their child, their inner, you know, their inner teenager and their dreams, you know, the teenager that survives the passage to adulthood. Ultimately, that's what we're all trying to do, right?

That's what artists are trying to do. Yeah. You know, we're trying to keep that alive and not submit to just the gray world. But we need to understand how to deal with it so that we give Caesar his due. And, and so it's important to have that experience, I suppose. But it is all about integration. We need to be able to, you know, a shaman, as has been remarked, infinite times as someone who's able to walk between worlds.

And that means you've got to be able to deal with the material world and you got to be able, and then you should be able to deal with the world of the imagination and spirit and creativity and inspiration. And with those two things working properly, you can do just about anything. Right. Jason Lueve, thank you so much for this mini magic lesson. It was what I was hoping for. Thank you.

I disagree with you about aliens interested in BDSM rituals. But ultimately, I just feel so lucky to have you as a friend. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Me too. And you do have a, you know, you have a lot of websites out there. We've got ultra culture, but also we've got magic.me. Go ahead. For me right now, I mean, my podcast is finally kind of happening.

So it's kind of weekly. So look up my podcast. It's ultra culture with Jason Lueve. And that's iTunes, Stitcher, all these Spotify, just search for ultra culture with Jason Lueve. You can find me on YouTube. It's just Jason Lueve on YouTube. And then definitely, um, uh, I spend most of my time socially on Instagram.

So it's at magic.me at MAGIC.me. So hit me up on Instagram and you'll see ads for all that other, sorry, you know, promos for all that other stuff as well. But yeah, podcast YouTube, Instagram. Thank you, Jason. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Aliens could be real. Ah, I got it. Now as Jason Lueve, everybody, all the links you need to find Jason are going to be at dunkintrustle.com. Big thank you to our sponsors, BetterHelp, Storyworth, and of course, Omigo for supporting this episode of the DTFH. And thanks to all of you for listening. I will see you next week.

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