Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 445: Chris Mansfield

Episode Date: June 12, 2021

Chris Mansfield, musician of RENOWN from the awesome Fences, joins the DTFH! Follow Chris on Instagram, Twitter, and MySpace. And click here to find all the places you can stream or download music by Fences! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Babbel - Sign up for a 3-month subscription with promo code DUNCAN to get an extra 3 months FREE! Plunge - Visit TheColdPlunge.com and use code DTFH to get $111 off your brand new cold plunge! ExpressVPN - Visit expressVPN.com/duncan and get an extra 3 months FREE when you buy a 1 year package.

Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Friday afternoon in the universe, no directions in and out. You got your men, women, dogs, children, horses, bones, ticks, perks, pots, pans, pools, palls, paunturiances, and petty thieverys that turn into heavenly Buddha. And oh boy, what's I talking about guys, I made the world and when I made it I know I had a

pushing midnight from my name and concocted up a world, so nothing. You had forever there after me, believe it's real. But that's alright because now everything will be alright. We'll soothe the forever boys and girls and before we're through, we'll find a name for this darn golden eternity and tell a story too. And what you ever read, a story as fast as this that begins Friday afternoon with working men on scaffolds, painting white paint, and ants burling in the black dens, and microbes warring in your kidney, and miscellaneous microbing in the innards of mercury,

and microbes deeming of the atomic microbe hood, which then automates outward to the eldest vast empty atom, which is this imaginary universe, ending nowhere, never even born as banque, well-posed when he ferried his mother over the rocks to plot UT and people visit his hut to inquire. What other planet features this? And he answers, what other planet? Well, the sounds of the entire world are not swimming through this window, from Mrs. Nucatiola's toando, an old folk's home drunk again,

and of course you hear the cats wailing in the wild, wild, wild, wild, what fans will enlighten at night? Lucian, Dolfine, immensity visions of the Tantaga, the state of purity and womb. And so that here is all this infinity material, a matter like golden ash, swimming, swarming in our enlightened brains, in the silence, shh, pallying in our endless air, and still we're a few as naked and blank to hear. What the who? Who? To what you? We'll say the diamond boat in Percipine, Recipine, Miltown, Heroine, and the fact

matches the silver gauges of a lasting swarm, swallowing in a simple broom, and at night you raise the square white light from your ghostly, the root-breaking tree in Coyote, won't hear ya, but you'll ward off the inexistent two devils. Just to pass the time away, and meanwhile it's timeless to the ends of the last light year, and getting late, finding afternoon where we start so-so sounds, and how the works are done, and drink his beer, and tweak his children's eyes. Welcome to the DTFH Pals. That, if you don't already know, is Jack Kerouac reading Lucian Midnight, one of my favorite Kerouac poems out there,

and now that I'm halfway through my life, at least, I can actually, like, freely say I love Jack Kerouac. I went through a period where I was doing that thing, maybe you do it, where you're like, that's for college kids, and then I realized that, you know, I haven't read a book since college, so college kids are actually more advanced than I am, and that, you know, to say, like, that was when I was in college, and I like that, is like implying that, like, now I'm somehow sophisticated,

now I'm sitting here, like, staring at, like, Twitter for two hours straight, oh yeah, that's for college kids, and now I look at Twitter, but anyway, now I'm old enough where it's like, I fucking love Kerouac, I don't know why, I was trying to be cool by expressing some kind of, like, pseudo-sophisticated attitude towards one of the great American poets, and recently I dived back in to the Kerouac vortex, vortices, I'm not sure which one, okay, both, it's a vortex and a vortices, and I love listening to him read his poetry, it's just so cool,

and if you haven't taken a, if you haven't revisited the great Kerouac, I think you should, and the reason I'm playing it, by the way, is because today's guest and I started up a friendship, and somewhere along the lines, he invited me to actually read a never-before-heard Kerouac poem for this upcoming album he's doing at the Kerouac Estate, it was a huge honor for me, I mean, it's goose bump level, holy shit, are you kidding me? Of course I would do that, oh my god, but you know, we talk now, and I have great conversations with him,

my favorite kinds of conversations that veer wildly between deep, like, heavy, metaphysical concepts, and death, and loss, and depression, to, like, hilarious, just ridiculous, you know, like, thinking about, like, you know, long conversations about potential, like, potential damage that could come from, like, standing up sex to, like, the older you get, how dangerous that becomes. Look, if you were there, you would have liked hearing us talk about that. But anyway, at some point, the thought sparkled in my dim mind that what am I doing, having these great conversations and not recording them,

and so Chris Mansfield was kind enough to come on the podcast. You probably know Chris Mansfield from his awesome band, Fences, check it out, they've got an incredible catalog of really beautiful music, and I hope you'll give them a listen. I'd put it on here, but I don't want to, like, trigger some kind of thing. You know, the trigger a bot. But I hope you'll look up his music. We had a wonderful conversation, we're going to jump right into it.

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that is the DTFH family. It's all waiting for you at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. Now, friends, today's guest is a musician of renown. In other words, he's awesome at music. He's amazing. He's a genius. Go listen to his music. Fences, all the links you need to find him will be at DuncanTrestle.com. Follow him on Instagram. It's nice when you're an adult and you make new friends.

It doesn't happen that much. But when it does, it's like, oh, this is great. I did it. I guess that crusty, crispy, weird, sad, poor, crying part of myself that I thought was some kind of vestigial organ from elementary school didn't dry up like I thought it had. This episode is proof, everybody. Please welcome first time, but not the last time to the DTFH, Christopher Mansfield. Welcome to the DTFH.

Chris is so cool that you agreed to do this, man. We've been having the best conversations on the phone. And I thought to myself, I can't have these conversations. I've got a family. I got to monetize these conversations. I invited you to do my podcast. You said yes. And here you are.

God bless you. How are you on this wonderful day? I'm good. I'm good. But yesterday in LA, it was raining and that charged me up. Like finally, you know what I mean? Not to start a podcast with something as banal as weather, but it helped because the- Oh, weather is not-

Yeah. No. It's everything kind of, you know what I mean? So I'm good, man. I feel good. You know, speaking of banal, once I remember I was in a, I was just, I just joined a sketch comedy group. And I, one of the lines that I had to read was banal. And I said banal.

And I felt like the dumbest asshole on earth. Everyone's like, you said banal. Yeah. I mean, no, I meant banal. I've never known how banal is that word. I mean, the English language is so flawed and I have to look at it so much like writing and writing songs and writing, you know, poems if you want to call them that or whatever. And it is flawed.

Like there's a lot of things that are, that are fucked up where it's like phonetically, like you weren't wrong. It's like you kind of did the right thing. Like you pronounced it correctly, like according to like the law of grammar, but it just was like, it was socially wrong. It's weird. I mean, it's a, it, because it is spelt like banal, like anal with a B. It's fine. I wouldn't worry.

Do you- Thank you. I think about every once in a while cringe. I can't believe I didn't know how to say banal. Do you, now, do you make a distinction between poetry and songs? Like what is the distinction? I always, I think about it sometimes, like, you know, when I'm listening to music, your lyrics are amazing, by the way.

What is the difference between a song and poetry outside of like music, but isn't it essentially the same thing? Man, that's a good question. There was actually a, the New York Times wrote, like, I can't remember who it was, and I apologize to him or her, whomever. There is an entire article about what's the difference between a poetry and a song, and I would just dilute it down to the simple fact of, like, you know, dead poet society when there's like the Pritchard's rhyming scheme, and there's like AB, AB format, so it'd be

like, be like, there's a cat, there's a guy, there's a bat, and then we're in the sky. So it's like the last syllable, AB, AB, so there's like different rhyme schemes to follow. So there's like a mathematics to it. And with songs, you definitely have to follow that like pretty heavy. I mean, I definitely do. Like if I, like the song, Same Blues, even the title, Same Blues, so ooh, ooh, ooh, that's the whole theme is the ooh, is that vowel. So you're a mother of two, and I try to be a good father too.

I lose my mind when talking to you. I don't know why. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. It's all ooh. So you, you, you hear that ooh, and that's kind of, and it's at the end, and you just kind of ride that down. But with a poetry, with a poem, it's sort of loose.

I mean, if you listen to like, not listen to, I mean, I guess you could have someone read it to you, but you know, like Richard Brodigan, like he has a poem is just like, you know, I went to a house with a woman. She had a bike in the corner, and it's done. And you're like, fuck, it's so good. But it's like, right? But there, you know, there's nothing going on. I know.

I know. Why is it so good? I don't know. And that is like sort of the fucking, it's, it like terrorizes me almost, I think. It does. A little bit. I mean, I love it so much. It terrorizes you because you want to, you want that, you want, you don't understand it,

or because you want to do it, or a combination of all those. I mean, I feel the same way. I'm legitimately flabbergasted by the way that seemingly completely just mundane sentences put in the right order can be like a nuclear bomb. Exactly. You know, you put it perfectly. It's because it's, it's the transference of the most simplistic that is atomic. And that's, and that's frightening.

I mean, it's, it's like weaponizing like language. And that's like, that can fucking move mountains and change the world. And it's weird. It's like, just put the, this word before this word, I don't really feel anything. Okay, flip it. All of a sudden, we all have fucking goosebumps. And it's like, now there's a revolution. And it's strange in that way.

And I don't really know why. Yeah. I think it's probably what God is at work or something. I don't know. That Brogdon poem though, that's like every, it's so, it's so many things. It's so romantic somehow. It's like incredibly romantic and it's like exciting. You know, it reminds me of when you're just hanging out with a girl that you like and

it's like that. It's somehow so many, it's a fractal. It's summoning up all these things that just shouldn't be able to do that. Exactly. Well, you want to know why it is. Well, I was going to say, if there's a bike in the corner, where's she taking that bike? Where does she go? You know what I mean?

It opens up worlds. It implies everything. It's like, you can say, it's almost like the best poem ever. And if I could write it right now, I would say, one day you were born, right? Because now you're implying what happens after that so much. You don't have to write it. It's implied this entire world after it. And that's the thing.

I mean, they did this thing where they said, I forget who wrote it. I don't know if it was Hemingway, but they said, right, the saddest, shortest poem. And it said, baby shoes for sale never worn. Like, ow, fuck. Oh, fuck. Yeah, I heard, oh, fuck that. You see? Oh, yeah.

That's an ice pick right to the heart. That's just brutal. It is. But that took me, there's nothing. How many points, do you have a lot? Do you memorize a lot of poetry? God, man, not as much as I probably should. I got to go through them again, but I try.

I mean, I have a few. I like Pablo Neruda. He talks about the entire poem, why he loves a woman. But he says, most of all, I love your feet because they walked to me. And it's like, damn, shit like that, that's what gets me going, man. It's a small little things, man. They really, it's, and that's the thing that you chase. You chase the simplicity and it is, it becomes rather Buddhist.

It's almost like the best poem in the world is a poem not even spoken. It's like, it gets pretty weird. So you got to be careful, I think, in there. Do you think people are more afraid to say their poets than they are to say their musicians? Yeah, I think so. It's embarrassing. I mean, David Foster Wallace, I remember he was, he did that. I think he was on Charlie Rose or something, but he said the worst thing that he could ever say is, I'm a writer.

And he was, to me, I think one of the greatest prose writers of all time. But he was ashamed to say it. I mean, I think exclaiming what you are is just inherently sort of bad. I don't, I don't know why that is. I think it's because maybe of jealousy of other people or something. But I mean, you have someone like Jacob Astorius, like, you know, jazz fusion bass player, he would go around and he'd tell people, I'm the greatest bass player in the world. And that insane candor, like kind of worked because people are like, what are you talking about? And then he, but he was.

Yeah. And that's like, there's certain people that can say that, but like, you go around saying what you are, like, I mean, I don't know what you say you are to people. What do you say you are to people? Do you have like a, like a thing, like a little line of what you say you are? I wonder. It changes all the time. Like sometimes I'll say podcaster. Sometimes I'll say comedian.

My wife says I should say comedian. I like saying podcaster because if you say comedian, then people are like, what kind of comedy do you do? And then the next thing you know, you're just the most excruciatingly awkward conversation you've ever had in your life is you're trying to like, and simultaneously, like, you know, your imposter syndrome is fled. You're like, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe you're right. Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm not a comedian.

Why would you even say that? You're probably right. And then you go, you spiral. So it's easier to be like, I'm a podcaster. Everyone's got a podcast. It was like, oh yeah, okay. You're one of those. But I feel like you cast a spell on yourself with those kinds of statements if you feel like you have to like actually live up to whatever it is you're saying you are.

For longer than a few seconds at a time. Yeah. It's it. Yeah. It's that it that's actually true and scary because it is. It's sort of like some guy at a bar who's, you know, puffing up like a rooster and he says he's tough. And then some guy is going to make him prove it one day. You know, and that's that's scary because yeah, it is scary.

And then someone says, you know, oh yeah, I'm a poet. And it's like, well, what if you just like, you know, you walked up and you were talking to Walt Whitman and he's like, all right, prove it. And then you read him a poem and he's like, that sucks. You know, I'm a poet. Like it's like, you can be challenged and that's what is spooky. So I think you have to, I guess if you declare yourself as something somewhere down the line, someone is going to challenge you and make you prove it. And, you know, and how to prove things that's really, you know, subjective because, you know, what even is a good poem? That's, you know, so it's a, but it's a funny thing.

But I just, I don't know. I mean, a lot of people, you know, sometimes they're like, well, what do you do? And I'm just, I don't know. I'm just, I just say, I just, uh, I love my girlfriend and, and like, I really like, uh, I like, you know, Bob Dylan and I'm just, I'm trying to be happy right now. I'll just like say something like really vague or something. Cause I want to go, I'm a musician. Yeah. That's, that's insane.

That sounds fucking insane. Yeah. I'm a musician. I mean, I am, but like. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you are bad news for you. You are, there's no way out now.

I know. Isn't that weird? At least you're a musician. The things that we want to come the greatest curse sometimes, you know, it's funny. Well, I mean, it's just, it's all this identity stuff. It's like these days, everyone, it's especially like rampant these days, this whole identity and having to say you're this thing or that. It's a mess, you know, because you get taught that from a young age, you're supposed to identify with some goal. Don't you're like when you're in school and they start, you, they start painting a picture of like options for what your life realistically could be in every possible.

Uh, tributary that your life could flow into is the most boring, seemingly boring horrible shit to the point where you just think, oh, then I'll just, I'd rather just die. Then I guess then do that because I don't want to be that, that fucking person. You know, Doug Stanhope has one. He has some of my favorite jokes of all time. One of them being instead of locked up raw. Sorry, Doug. I'm sorry. I think it's okay to do this because this joke is on albums and as old, but the joke is instead of locked up raw, you know, where they take kids to get horrified by prisoners.

Like you take kids to see like someone who's been working in an office for like 20 years straight and just sit the next year. I'm not going to fuck up the joke. Google it. I'm sure it's online. But it's like that is, I think these days, especially now that there appears to be the middle class is collapsing in on itself. And it's being sort of demonstrated that, you know, that that didn't even work out anyway for a lot of people that there's more of a sense of like, okay, well, then I'm going to identify with some something more romantic and artistic. I think it's fine. By the way, I'm, I say identify with whatever you feel like, like a kid, my kid identifies with a school bus some days.

He'll just say, I'm Buster. I'm a school bus. Yeah. I love it. It's like, oh, great. That's you. That's great. I'm just like, cool.

I Buster. I think it's more of, it's playful if you just, you know, if we all allow ourselves to be a poet, musician, podcast or comedian, you're funny as hell, man. You might as well be a comedian. Thanks. Yeah. And that is what's, that's what's weird is, uh, well, that's what I like talking to you. And I was trying to sort of explain this. I was like, I was like, well, when I talked to Duncan, it's like, I can be like this, the guy who can make people cry with a guitar, like the nihilist, like the, the, the person who, who loves God and, and then the person who's funny.

But I'm like, they don't have to exist in little pockets where I have to switch. So I wasn't like, okay, if I go on this podcast, like now I have to be funny or now I have to be like, like real weird and we have to talk about aliens and, and fucking, you know, whatever. It's like, you can just be the entire thing. And it's, uh, it is funny because yeah, when I was a kid, I remember being like eight years old and I'm like, okay, I can either be like Jimi Hendrix or a fireman. And I'm like, that's a kind of a tough fucking binary choice. Like, like, I don't really know how to do either of those really. You know, it's like, I mean, what if you were both? What if you fucking Jimi Hendrix is putting fires out with this guitar?

I mean, like you can do, you can just do everything. And um, you could try. You could try. I mean, this is the pirate tradition. Mm hmm. Have you heard this? This is like the American, America has its roots in piracy and pirates had to be good at everything. They weren't just some monolithic thing.

They had, you had to be a statesman and you had to know how to sail a boat and you had to know how to cook and you had to know how to be a doctor and you had to know how to fight. And like, so, so that's like the roots of America are in that in piracy, you know, for better or for worse and pirates knew how to do a lot of stuff. And so, yeah. And it seems like that, that way of living, that was the people in the planes and the settlers and the, you know, you weren't just a poet. You were a farmer. You were, you know, I mean, you were, you, you know how to build a cabin and you know, you know, you knew how to do these things to survive. And over time, I guess we sort of got taught, you've got to learn one thing only. And then that ended up with a lot of human bonsai trees out there.

Yeah. You know, that's very true. I know it's strange. You, um, well, what do they say? Like, you know, jack of all trades, master of none. I mean, there's all this sort of, you know, diatribe about that sort of being a negative, right? Like you are just kind of, you know, meandering around and good at all this stuff. But we like to have like, you know, mass like masters like Malcolm Gladwell, 10,000 hours.

Like, you know, Mike Tyson is just a fucking boxer, but it's like Mike Tyson might be able to make a really beautiful steak. Like probably, you know, it's like, and I think that's, that's kind of, I don't know. I mean, I, I definitely struggle with that in my life lately is sort of almost like a morning. I almost mourn my life because I've just devoted it to one thing and because I can't drive a car. I don't, I don't have a license. You know what I mean? I don't fucking really my ideas expired. Yeah.

I don't know how to drive. I mean, all I can do and I always tell people, I'm like, I'm like, I can't really probably do anything. I'm like, but I can sit down and write a really good song right now. And like, a lot of people can't do that. But all this other stuff that not simple stuff, but just, you know, other like kind of stuff that's societally the norm kind of escapes me. So I think that that's like a danger that if I were to go around to like high schools or something, you know what I mean? And like, tell the kids about the danger of being a creative, I would be like, make sure that you don't just focus on that because you'll end up a fucking weirdo. And you can only do the one thing and you'll be like a pariah and you better hope some girl loves you and that you could drive a car.

I could drive a car really good, but not legally. That's the point. You know what I mean? I don't have. Yeah. But you just didn't go. Yeah. You don't want to go to the DMV.

I'll never go there, dude. I'd rather die. That's what it is. Yeah. You're right. You would rather die is a temple of darkness and you don't want to go there and engage in the dark rituals of that. Fuck in place. Friends, I'm sorry.

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So I would feel devastated if that didn't work. You know that I'm not going to get all enthusiastic over something that sucks. It's awesome. That's thecoldplunge.com. Use offer code DTFH for $111 off. Thank you, cold plunge. It is. I'm telling you. Let it sound as crazy as it sounds. It's a secret religion. It's a religion of bureaucracy. If you go in those places, the energy is no different than any other ritual chamber. You've got priests. They all wear outfits. They're giving you permission to drive a car, giving you magic paper that says you can, you know, and look, is there a more dilapidated oppressive energy than that of a DMV? I mean, I'm sure there are other offices and areas like that, but my God, it's like you walk into one of those places, you feel like they've got a Nosferatu buried somewhere. You're right with the Nosferatu. It's like, because when you talk about Nosferatu and vampires and King and all these authors, it's like that stale air. It's like, I noticed when I go and do a DMV, I'm like, I'm like, what kind of fucking air is in here? It's like, I feel like the air, it's like they're not feeding air into the building. They're like kind of lightly pulling air out of you. It's like weird. And like, when I go and do a DMV, I'm like, I have about 30 minutes before I'm going to pass out.

You know what I mean? Like, what the fuck? No, it scares me. And then when you go up to the person, you can say like the simplest thing to the person. And they don't know what you're talking about. You're like, oh, I want to try to do this. And they're like, what, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, I'm here for the, they're like, I don't know. It's like, what the fuck? And you're like, I'm about to faint because like the air in here feels like a fucking like, like King Tutts fucking tomb. It's like, and everyone that's in there is like staring. Like they look like they're like lamenting every problem they've ever done in like everything. And there's like, and then there's always like a kid just running around. Whose kid is that dude? Nobody's like Satan's kid. It's a fuck. I don't like it dude. No. Yeah, the kid. We should have done the podcast part of the manifestation of the place.

The kid was born in the DMV dude. He was born there. You should record a song in a DMV and just see if you can capture it. Cause you know, when like, I noticed when I go into DMVs, like my body tries to do, it tries to fall asleep. Like suddenly I'll be more exhausted than I've ever been in my life. It's like a method to try to just escape. Cause it's like, you know, it's a, it's like the tip of this iceberg connected to so many horrible layers of government control and sort of, you know, relinquish power. And, you know, the people who were working there, it's not like they want to be there, you know, and so, and you, and just a general feeling, just a sense of like, there must be a better way to do a society than make these places incremental initiatory chambers if you want to proceed with a normal life. Right. You know, it's like, what?

Yeah. Paint the, you could paint the fucking walls, put a mural up, play some nice music, do that thing they do at hotels where they like spray eucalyptus in the air. Like, why does it have to be some austere fuckhole? Okay. And so to me, the reason it's like that is the same reason a temple is a, it feels like you're inside some cosmic flower. It's because the DMV and that bureaucratic organization is some form of secret religion. And the feeling that you have is the feeling of whatever the fucking God is behind the whole thing. You know,

God, DMV probably stands for like demonic malicious vision, dude. I think, yeah. And it's like the wall color is like a paint. You could never buy that. You couldn't go to Home Depot and buy that paint. Like, what is that color dude? It's the weirdest color. It's like, it's like gray, brown, white.

It's like, it's no, it's just like this, the weirdest color you've ever seen. It's just like the color of like, of loss, dude. It's like, like when you die, like, Yes. But the last color you see is the wall, the wall color DMV. It's just the DMV wall. Oh my God. You just fall into that for eternity.

Oh my God. You just spiral into that forever. Yeah. Yeah. You die. You're like, well, I'm trying to get my license for all time. That's it. I, that's, I hopefully that's not what happens.

No, I'm all creeped out. I mean, I think it's, I think it, I think that, I think that's one of the possibilities is it's like, you, because, you know, it's like, you have some kind of like, and the people there have been imbued with this imaginary power. It's like, you know, the whole, the whole situation right now around the planet seems to be one in which like people are beginning to realize and maybe not for the better how much of a game, so much of the way that we run the show is and, and, and, and, and it sounds great.

I mean, it is a fun thing. It's like the kind of, you know, when you're on LSD and you're looking at the, at money and you're realizing that, oh, it's just pay, it's just paper. It's like completely just, it's nothing. And then you're looking at like road signs and you're looking at traffic lights and you're looking at the whole entire hypnotic pulsation of society. And you have that moment of realizing like this, there, there's a billion other ways we could have run this, this thing than this.

And, you know, and I think that people are collectively waking up to that and you would think that'd be a good thing, but I think it's blowing people's fuses. I think so too. And the thing that alarms me a bit, well, not it doesn't alarm me, but I feel like that everyone's kind of coming to this collective realization without the use of psychedelics. So how it's like, I mean, yeah, like, is there, are they putting something in the water? You know what I mean? I'm not trying to get like super weird, but like, why is everyone sort of kind of being

like, oh, weird, like everyone I know that was like straight laced. Like two years ago, now that they're just like, yeah, man, this is probably a simulation like, I think like God lives in my closet and like, you know, my dead mom's like lives in like the bowels of my shower and like, I think maybe I'm God and like, it's cool. I'm ready to die. And I'm like, I'm like, aren't you at the bank? Like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, it's like, I think everyone's fucking going crazy, but I mean, I remember the last

time that I did acid, when you're talking about how cartoonish and ridiculous and banal, I'll do that just to join you in solidarity. Banal. Banal, dude. That's the name of this podcast. Banal podcast is that. Banal sex. Sex.

I only do banal, dude. Is that. I was standing outside a soda machine on acid, just like laughing at it. I was like, I put this in there and then you give me a soda. It was the funniest fucking thing to me. And like, that's not funny, but it really is though. It's like, I put in a piece of paper and then a little can of like fizzy sugar drink comes out, my hand grabs it, me, this like highly developed fucking primate and I sip it down

and I get a little rush and I'm happy and I walk away. For some reason, I was like, there's nothing funnier than that. And that doesn't make sense to people probably ever, but I think you could understand why that's hilarious. Yeah. Well, you know, it's just, you get this, you realize like all the things on top of things on top of things on top of things that you have to believe and remember to make a soda machine work for you.

And then also preference, you know, like you got to have, you're going to have some natural preference towards whatever the particular swill is that they're putting out into these machines. So when you, when you, when like you start realizing like there's all of these levels that have to be, you know, believed in for, for, for this shit to work and, and, and people are just starting to like, you know, we're like whatever, we're just starting to think like, well, you look at politicians, I mean, it's the most obvious trite thing to say. But you look at most politicians and you realize like, oh, that's, you know, that's just somebody

playing a game. Like they're making money, doing a job. But do they really like, are their hearts like bleeding for America? Do they really like wake up in the morning and say the pledge and think of the glory of our country, even though that's what they say in their speeches, probably not, probably not maybe a few of them, but more than likely most of them are like, we're, we're in it for the money and the power. And so, and then you look at like the same is true for the police and the same is true

for all the bureaucratic systems, you know, more than likely that the mythology of some noble government servant is just a myth, it's not real. They're just people who've got a job that they kind of don't like and they don't really believe in it that much. And at this point, we're starting not believe in them that much. And now we're getting to that awkward moment in any kind of like PDSM and any kind of like thing where you've been doing like, like weird authoritarian role play where it's like, you know, I, yeah, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna have the country need to say, we're

like, panel, panel, panel, we're done. Sorry, panel, panel, we're done. You can take the suits off, we're done, panel, you can take off the Supreme Court robes. We're gonna, we're gonna do a new one now. We're gonna come up with another role play. We're gonna do it again. We're gonna remember it's just a role play. That's what, well, that's the fucking difference is, is the self realization that it is a role

play. And I think that that that's what would make it make more sense because I think we're starting to realize that it is one. But if we could be like, hey, this one's weird, banal, I'm done, that hurts. Stop it. Let's do a new one and all be self aware that this is just a thing. And we're going, okay, we're just like on this planet. We kind of don't really know what to do.

Like we just want to have sex and probably like eat meat and like maybe some broccoli, sleep seven hours, you know, maybe, you know, read, play guitar, like whatever, just like, you know, just pleasures and, and, you know, sort of be creatives. But like, let's, let's rebuild it and let's, but let's be aware that this is just a thing we've all agreed upon. We need some kind of structure so there's not complete chaos and anarchy, right? But like, if we're all in the same bed, because we could be like, hey, Brad, like, you know, you're six, four, you know, you probably have a big dick.

Like you can run this part of silver making LA. Like we like you. Like you can do that. We'll let you do it, Brad. Yeah. And like, and Brad, you should probably put on this weird giant cowboy hat because that makes me, it makes you look more assertive. And then we all like bow down to Brad when he rides his Vespa down the street or whatever

the fuck he does. But if we, you know, if we were self aware, I don't want to bow to Brad. I don't either. You know what the thing is, if Brad comes into power, me and you, we're going to fight him, but it's fucking him. Fuck. Take him. Everyone, everyone named Brad.

Fuck his Vespa. Dude, we need to steal his Vespa. Cowboy Brad on his fucking Vespa, fucking authoritarian Brad with his big dick and fucking cool cowboy hat. Fuck you, Brad. We're taking over, Brad. No, we're throwing Brad. No, I'm just imagining that there's a guy, because your podcast has a lot of

listeners, there's a guy named Brad with a big dick and a cowboy hat. And he's just like, Oh man, I like, I really like Duncan Shrestle. And he's like, why are you attacking me, dude? I don't mean you, Brad. We're talking about a different Brad. We're talking about the Brad that's an amalgam of all corrupt power structures. They got some unlikely fucking, I don't know, vested authority. Now he's exploiting it in our fantasy, riding around in his Vespa.

I love these Vespas that are like a tank or a military jeep. Oh God. Well, no, the Vespas, it's so much funnier. My dear loves, when you go swimming out into the internet, it's like somebody jumping into a hyper dimensional river infested with technological parasitic voyeuristic creatures. It's dangerous. You, yeah, we all like porn, but maybe some of you don't necessarily want 6,000

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branch dividends and this is a little bubble. And in that bubble, the authority, the role play with the rest of the world is stopped. And then they start doing a micro role play. And the micro role play is, you know, my name's not Vernon. It's David Koresh named after King David and another character in the Bible called Koresh. I'm opening up all these seals. I'm going to fuck your wives and get them pregnant. And we're just, we're going to get a bunch of guns.

And because I am, he called himself like the, God, I was just watching this documentary. He called himself like the dirty messiah or some creepy name for himself. But basically like he ends, you do that long enough and the tanks come. The helicopters come because like the dominant authoritarian bureaucratic paradigm will not tolerate anything inside of it that is truly antithetical, you know, meaning like, you know, they're not paying taxes. They're not paying attention to gun laws. They're not paying attention to, you know, like age of consent laws.

They're not paying attention. They're just doing their own thing out there. They're getting high and like, you know, God knows what. And so it just doesn't work. And boom, they just get smashed every single fucking time. You end up in a room with the gun to your head. The role play gets creepy. Exactly.

Yeah, if you, if you want to fucking do that, you're not Jesus, you can't do that. I mean, it'd be fucking cool, man. It'd be rad, like wear some weird clothes, whatever. But it's like, if you got a bunch of fucking 17 year old like Manson looking chicks on your ranch and you're, it's like you end up like, hold up with the fucking gun to your head because choppers and you're gonna have to fucking kill yourself. I mean, that's the only way to get out. Like you're going to go out in the gunfight that every time that happens or the,

I think the best cult death probably was like the source family, like Yohawa. He fucking got so high on mushrooms that he thought he could hang glide and he fucking hang glided had no idea how to do it and then, and then just crashed and died. So for me, if I start a cult before the choppers come, I'm just going to hang glide. I think that's, that's what you should do. But, but you're completely right. I mean, you just have a plan to hang glide to your death. Exactly.

You have to have some sort of cool, like romantic escape route because, because all these cats, they all, I swear they all start in like, like the Hollywood Hills and they're like, we need more room for like the people. And then they go to like Hawaii or like somewhere fucked up. And then it's like, there's no toilets. It all gets fucked. And then all of a sudden here comes the brigade, dude. Like you guys are getting taken down.

It happens every time. And I think, yeah, part of the thing is I think that these guys that run this shit, they're almost looking for that finality. Like they like that ending. That's part of the story. They're probably like, they're coming for us. Like it's probably part of the part of the romance. Because I don't think that they ever in their mind thought that this is going to go on forever.

We're going to start a new society. They know, dude. It's almost like a slow play suicide. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. Or some kind of progressive, like some horrible progressive form of like being a sociopath that just inevitably leads to you doing like suicide by the, you know, the ATF or whatever.

Or, but here's the other thing that can happen. This is the other crazy thing. This is what's crazy about the United States is, and maybe this is why they storm in and get you. Because like, if you can walk the line long enough, you can fucking run for president. You know? And then, and then you, and if you can do just the act of running for president exposes you to so many people, but then once you get in there, and you know what I mean? Like, and start like actually like running the show and you have all of the like illusionary

bullshit that goes along with like, you know, anyone who's born in any country has been conditioned to believe that the leaders of that country have some special quality that, you know, which is what gives them the right to have all the power they have. I mean, it's just, it's bullshit. It's not true. They're just like us. They're like everywhere. Everyone's like everyone else, but you born into a country where you learn that.

And so if someone manages to, if like a cult leader manages to use the system itself to get into like high positions of power, then holy fuck, then you got a real problem because now they're the ones in charge of the helicopters, you know? And, and that's where that's what I think is like an interesting possibility for you, for, you know, any, any country. It happened with Scientology. I mean, they took over, they were like actively like getting into government positions and stuff. Because they wanted to take over the government.

What did you fucking? I mean, Scientology basically was a, there was a cult called the children that spawned off Scientology. The children spawned to son of Sam, the son of Sam murderer was not one man. It was a bunch of no way. And yeah. And Charles Manson fucking used to check out original Scientology. Check it out. It's the weirdest thing.

It's all, it all goes back, all goes back to Hubbard. Hubbard did a thing. He was in San Francisco. It's all LSD government. All the, like all of the fucking like allegedly, allegedly, you know what I mean? All the major serial killers were a part of this worldwide cult and they're all doing fucking LSD. They're all fucking worshiping the devil. It's probably, I wouldn't say it was like, you know, Masonic.

I mean, but, but, you know, some serious stuff that they that they follow. And it's weird where it is like Manson went to Hubbard really early on kind of before it was, it was Scientology. And then there was another cult that spawned off called the children. And then that spawned off from the son of Sam. So they're saying the son of Sam murderer, he was just like, yeah, I mean, I, I was there, but I didn't do it. And like it was like tons of people were doing the murders and like, and it was all fucking.

It's like, you know about that shit? Like, like Joe, like on the Joe Rogan, he was talking about that, like, there was a thing in San Francisco, they were fucking doing like LSD research and giving it to Manson. So he was giving it to his people. It's almost like a, you know, MK ultra shit. It's all fucked up. It's weird.

So it's, it's very spooky to think about that stuff. And for me, I dig it. And I'm like, I don't mind. I mean, if you guys want to play around, it's kind of weird. I don't know why you're doing it, but the real question is why are you doing it? That's what creeps me out. Cause I mean, it doesn't bother me. I'm not like morally conflicted.

I'm like, yeah, far out, whatever. Like you want to give some hippies some LSD and there's some murders. I mean, it's like life is insane. That can happen. But why? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, that's the, that's the quote.

That's where, yeah, it gets weird. Cause you have this, there's like one of, like it fits into our, like one of the ideas I like to think about is just the concept of like law itself. And, you know, it's at some point, like there's the front stage, which is what we're in, where you have to adhere to the law. You have to. And here comes the law. But in the backstage, there's the, I know, but yeah, someone near here is like,

always getting into trouble. I think it's like a constant stream of cop cars near my studio. But the, the, uh, the backstage, you know, the back backstage, you know, which has been called the deep state long before that became associated with Q and Trump and got, you know, all the great conspiracy theories that got besmeared by that shit. But like the idea is like somewhere the laws don't exist anymore. It's just people who are, you know, privileged beyond privilege, not just like the elite, but people who've managed to become heads of organizations.

And those people are the ones who say, yeah, well, see, we're going to go murder the, the messiah dude, even though it's illegal to murder people, we're going to do it because well, that's our, we do that. We're allowed to murder and we're allowed to take your money. We're allowed to like confiscate all your shit if you have the wrong thing in your house. And we're allowed to, you know, we're allowed to do anything we want because we run the show. And, but the problem is they've gotten better, better, better at hiding. So you don't really know, you know, who it is or where they are.

That is where, and then when they start, you know, dripping LSD from behind that weird invisible MK ultra wall into society. And then it starts having all these bizarre effects. Yeah. You just got to ask yourself like how intentional was this that I don't think it was intentional. I think they just thought they had some kind of awesome truth serum. And then it, you know, it got into the hands of artists and, you know, transform the world. But, you know, if you're going to put out, if like you're going to, you know,

send LSD out into the world, you can only expect that you're going to get some mansons. Yeah. Well, the one, the one thing that I would say is that they probably wouldn't want to, I mean, my only defense against my argument of saying, well, why is everyone waking up right now? It's like, if they were to give everybody LSD, they would know that then we would see them. You know what I mean? Like we would, we would break down all the shit and we would see them. So their, their intention for giving everybody LSD would not, it just,

we'd all get too, too fucking smart. We would, we would know what they were up to. It's almost like they probably want to do what they're doing. Like if you get caught with a little bit of it, like you go to jail for like 90 years or some shit. So I think that they keep it pretty close to the vest. Five year mandatory minimum. Jesus, that doesn't start.

But they're starting to legalize. I mean, everything's getting, everything's getting legalized. That's the crazy thing. And, and, and so, you know, I don't know, but I don't, don't you think phones are a psychedelic? Have you ever kicked around that idea? Oh yeah, dude. I mean, it's funny, like sometimes I'll look at my phone and I'll think it's been like 10 minutes

and it's been like two hours. I'm like, this thing like sucks you in and just fucking like hypnotizes you. And it's like, it is psychedelic. Actually, it's funny you say that. I think that you might be kind of psychic because last night, I was driving home from an open mic with my girlfriend Maxine and I was looking at my phone and I was like, I was like, how the fuck does this thing work? I was like, how can I do this?

How can I call someone? I'm like, because all of the fucking stuff that made this phone came from the earth. I'm like, how, how? And she was just like, I don't like to think about that kind of stuff. And I was like, yeah, me neither. And I just looked out the window. You know what I mean? But it's like, so yeah, that thing is, is like so scary, dude.

It's so fucking scary. I don't even, I don't know what is. Yeah. It's weird. It's the weirdest thing ever. And I can't, it's like, I can like, you know, figure out okay, like, okay, I see like a little, the little chips in the back of the phone and like the wires and the, but I'm like, you made the chip.

What the fuck is that chip? So if you pull that little green chip out of the back of your iPhone, you can't FaceTime in Japan. You put it back in, you can. What is that chip? What's it made out of? Green plastic and little wires. What is, what even is that?

It can really get funny. And it, and possibly maybe I'm just like, not, you know, not that intelligent with like technology, but let's all be honest, man. I mean, I think, I think there's a lot of wood and rocks and water on this earth. So who made that? Let's be real. Like, you know, I think we just don't look at these things. Oh yeah.

We're just happy to have them. That's something I read. Oh yeah. We don't think about too much more. I mean, it is the, you know, a wonderful, simple thing to point out, which is like, you know, it's not, these things aren't normal. Like they didn't exist that long ago. They're completely new to the planet.

They are a fusion of insane technologies and philosophies and you know, the techniques of psychological manipulation developed by people over the last several hundred years mixed in with like, it's all of the insane, like just basic optic technology and the fucking things. I mean, it's, it's, it's just a reservoir of human, like cutting edge human advancement. And we fucking just, we love it and it makes our lives easier. But God damn it. You get like, at some point we have to start emitting that just because you're not putting

it in your mouth or injecting it in your arm, doesn't mean it's not getting you high. Like it's a drug. I think that's the answer to what you know, why people are all freaked out and seemingly on acid all the time. It's because they are, it just isn't acid you put on your tongue. It's acid that is connected to microchips that are connected to such a weird array of revolutionary thinkers. You know what, when no matter what you think of Silicon Valley and like,

you know, the people behind this shit, like those people are wizards and they are getting as high as a kite on this stuff. Like we're, we're completely, it's a hot, like when I'm playing a game on my phone or when I'm like looking at porn or when I'm looking at some horrible news, I'm getting high. Like it's most certainly a high, but I just don't, I think a lot of people aren't recognizing that they're blasted at that level. No, I mean, no, it is.

It's like a, you're right. I actually, I think that you might have cracked the code right there. I think that it's fucking, that's the fucking high. That's the new acid. That's why everyone's like waking up or like, whoa, what's going on? Because if I even think about this morning, it was like, yeah, I was like on Instagram and like some guy was like, there's just like on the explore page making a really great sandwich. You know, and I was like, man, you know, I'm hungry, like beautiful sandwich.

And I was like, well, I cruised over and then I was like, you know, and then I looked at pornographer just for a second, you know, because my girlfriend left the room and she was going to go and I just like, so it's like, I saw a sandwich. I saw a girl have sex and then you texted me and I was like, cool. Like, and my dopamine was just like fucking through the roof. I was like, yeah, I'm doing the podcast, porno sandwiches. Like just like, I was just like fucking joking shit into my fucking brain and I wasn't even aware of it.

And dude, I didn't even wipe the sleep out of my eyes yet, but I was already like just so pumped full of fucking shit. It's like, all I was doing is holding that little thing. It's like, God, dude, I was, I'm, I feel safer with a sheet of acid than an iPhone, to be honest with you, man. It's crazy, man. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you're going to be more interesting with a sheet of acid. That's for sure. And, and you know, I think one of the, sometimes people like on Instagram will send me a message and be like, I'm tripping right now. And I'll always write back, turn your phone off. Don't do that. It's like you're playing the worst kind of the worst slot machine on earth, you know,

because like, you don't know who's about to text you. You know, when you're, when you're high, turn it off. You want to hear the fucking worst thing is my buddy. I mean, I won't say his name, but my buddy the other night, he was doing cocaine and he had on an iPhone watch that's checked his heart rate. And he kept saying he had to go to the hospital because he kept looking at his thing. His heart rate was going up. And I was like, why are you wearing that?

You do a line and you look and check. I'm like, is this torture? Are you torturing yourself? Like, imagine that. I'm like, take the fucking watch off. What kind of experiment are you doing? Exactly. That's what I said to him.

I was like, is this a experiment? Why are you doing that? There's like Guantanamo Bay, dude. Like, what the fuck? I can't believe he even did that. But it was, it was just, what's the difference between you and a rat? Like you're doing a, yeah. No, he was.

He's like, yeah, he's a self-proclaimed fucking rat, dude. I can't believe it. So yeah, I think sometimes I mean, like the rats who push the lever and get the cocaine. That's all I meant. I don't know. I don't think your friends are for doing cocaine. You know what I mean? The rats in the experiment where they get the cocaine.

Well, they go, they keep hitting it. They want it. I know. That's what's weird. The rat keeps returning to get the coke. For sure. I've definitely read about that and I thought it was hilarious. And I sort of want to own a rat that's always high on blow and just runs around my house.

I think that'd be funny. Oh my God. Well, I mean, this is the reason we have LSD is because they gave it to mice. And originally in the mice, like we're walking backwards. And so they thought, well, this is not what we, what I'm going to use for a drug that makes mice walk backwards. Yeah. So they shelved it for a little bit.

But, but you know, like, I, like, I remember reading William Burroughs, you know, kind of romanticizing it like a lot of them, a lot of them, and that you could just go to the pharmacist, get this tincture, go back to your house, put the tincture in like a, you know, beautiful, like glass and just essentially drink morphine for the winter. And that was, we, in those days, like, you know, that was when they were putting cocaine and Coca-Cola and there were opium dins that were legal because they, they, they just thought this is normal. This is, well, people should be able to do this.

It's normal. I really think that's what we're going to realize in a few years is, oh my fucking god, we're all on opium. It's, it's just looks like a foam and that nothing will change because these things have become incremental, you know, they've become essential aspects of our culture. Like there's no way they're going anywhere, but I guess we'll be high forever. I don't, yeah. I mean, in a weird way, I mean, I think that the technological dope high is, you know,

not as romantic and sort of morally fucked, like you, because you feel manipulated because like you're not kind of as much in control. Like you're not going and buying it and deciding. It's like you've, it's, you know, it's like that ridge against the machine line. It's like, like you decide what the deciders have told you to do. It's like, it's like, that's a high that you can't even say, no, man, I don't do drugs. They're like, yeah, yeah, you fucking do. You have no choice.

Otherwise you can't call your mother. You know what I mean? So it's like, that's when it gets spooky, but I think, uh, fuck, right. You know what I mean? But I think that's so creepy. It is, right? That's how smart they are is that they made a thing that you have to have. Right.

You have to have it. Otherwise you can't, you can't contact your family. You can't have a career. Like, you know what I mean? Like imagine if you had to delete your Instagram. It's like, that would fuck things up for you a little bit. And for me too, it's like, if I deleted my Spotify, Instagram, everything digital, if that all went away, I don't exist anymore.

And that's the drug. Yeah. So it's like, I have no fucking choice. That's the dream. Yeah, that's the dream. God damn. I, that's the fucking nightmare, man. But I promise you, it's, it's so funny because that is not you getting in a car,

going to the dope dealer's house and choosing. It's been chosen for you and you can't not. No, that's, that's the new, that's the new, that's the new throw. That's the new transcendentalism. That's what it is that you want to end. Here's how you get in. Destroy all your social media and give up the dream of whatever the fuck we're all doing. And never, and, and, and not just like give it up as like, I'm going to write

piece for the New Yorker any year. Give it up. But like, give it up. Like I'm done. I'm checking out of whatever the fuck this crazy, you know, synthetic communal digital universes for the rest of my life. You won't be hearing from me again. I'm gone.

Not like the shit people do on Twitter, which is to me the dumbest thing. I'm taking a break. I'm leaving Twitter for Instagram. No, they're not even a break. They're like, I'm not going to hang out here anymore. You could find me on Instagram. You know what I mean? Like I'm going uptown, you know, but I'm saying this is my suspicion.

Is there already are communities that aren't just monastic communities that have been around forever, actual new communities of kids probably who are completely off their phones. I know it must be. I don't know who they are, where they are. They're not going to listen to this shit. They're, they're like, they're, they're invisible and mysterious, but I think they're out there and they have all this extra power because they aren't getting mind fucked by this stuff anymore.

Don't you get that sense? Like they're out there somewhere. They must be. Hello? That's a perfect, that's a perfect tone. Sorry about that. Hold on. I'm starting recording again.

That was awesome. Are you kidding? Sorry about that. That was a perfect timing. I really thought, oh my God, that's the best way to end the podcast. You're just like, fuck this. I'm out. I'm hitting the road.

I'm gone. I'm gone. Yeah, that kind of was like, yeah, spiritually, grammatically, like profound. That was good. I like it. Look, I think we have covered plenty of ground here and it's a perfect time to wrap it up. But, and I, you know, can you let people know where they can find you? I mean, it's obvious.

I'll put all the links to his music. I'm sure you've already listened to it, but you are such an incredible musician and we're so lucky that you're making music for us. You make anything, you work on anything? Yeah, I'm doing July 4th. I'm going in an RV that's fully fitted with the recording studio and doing like a Jack Kerouac documentary and recording Jack Kerouac's songs. And it's with the estate.

And I would like you to, you know, narrate one of the poems, obviously. Oh my God, I, it's such a, I'm so excited about it. These are poems that people haven't read some of them. Like these are never before seen Kerouac poems. I would like it. I would like to send you a poem that no one's ever read. And I just want you to read it, record it, and we're going to put in a fucking vinyl. And then my, the only thing that I've been thinking about is because we're having a

Rolling Stone come with us on the tour and stuff like that to do it all. But I'm like, how do we get a, I want you in the documentary. So you might just have to fucking put your iPhone up. We'll work. Are you? We're coming out that way. No, we're, yeah, but you would just have to figure out the timing. I don't know when it is.

I mean, I'm going to be out there, but it's closer to, it's probably too late. It's closer to November that I'm going to be out there. But I might be out sooner than that, but we'll figure it out. There's a way to do it. Yeah. Even if you didn't talk to my phone and then we'll just toss you in the, because I just wanted to get, you know, the people that are narrating in the documentary, like you just talking about, you know, what he means to you and,

and just whatever, you can, you can talk about your lunch. It doesn't matter. But I think, um, no, but I think it's exciting and it's, uh, it's surreal. This was surreal. And, um, but this is all the simulation, right? I mean, everything, you just manifest what you want to do when you do it. It's beautiful. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I think it is some, it's clearly some kind of beautiful, beautiful maddening illusion for sure. But I'm so glad we're talking and that we're friends now. I mean, it's just, it's great to have you on the, uh, uh, it's great to have you in my satanic phone. And it's really nice to be able to like just the conversations we've been having are like, are really making me happy. So thanks for coming on the show.

Yeah, man. Thank you. It's been, it's been a dream and an honor that the dark dojo dude. I love it. How did this not thank you? That was Christopher Mansfield. Everybody listen to fences, follow him on Instagram. Big thank you to our sponsors.

Babble express VPN and plunge for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH. And thank you for listening. We'll be back next week. I love you. Have a wonderful weekend. Suck some feet, make love, have big orgasms and dance around under the strange undulating universal sky. I'll see you next week.

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