Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 451: Dr. Benjy Epstein

Episode Date: July 17, 2021

Benjy Epstein, Duncan's rabbi and brilliant jewish scholar/author, joins the DTFH! Check out Benjy's book, Living in the Presence: A Jewish Mindfulness Guide to Everyday Life, everywhere you can buy books. You can also follow Benjy on Twitter and Instagram! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: ExpressVPN - Visit expressVPN.com/duncan and get an extra 3 months FREE when you buy a 1 year package. Feals - Visit feals.com/duncan and get 50% off and FREE shipping on your first order. Athletic Greens - Visit AthleticGreens.com/Duncan for a FREE 1 year supply of vitamin D and 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase!

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And me. Greetings my loves! That was the cover of Rainbow Connection from the band Thank God for Vote Coders and you are listening to the Dugga Trussell family our podcast. Welcome! Holy God in Heaven.

I have got a wonderful recent podcast for you today I feel so lucky, this is my job. I do not know how I end up having conversations like this sometimes I even get foggy regarding how I met people but suddenly I find myself

having conversations that I will think about for the rest of my life and this is one of those conversations. Today our guest is Dr. Ben Epstein he is a rabbi, he is my rabbi

and he is a brilliant Jewish scholar and an author we are going to jump right into some heavy duty kabbalistic mind blowing

glory but first this did you know that if you live in the United States and you want to watch Fight Club on Netflix you can't but if you are in Canada you can not fair

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without further ado I would like to introduce you to my friend and rabbi Dr. Ben Epstein Dr. Benji do you think that there is a lane and if there is a lane what is your lane

I'm finding it because I did not think that this was in my lane and you know what the universe has a way of saying guess what it is now it is now you didn't think podcasting was in your lane I didn't think Duncan Trussell was in my lane

I didn't think that you know meeting heroes which is always going to potentially be disappointing is going to be something that is going to be life changing and exhilarating

because I look good when I am animated yeah I think you look great it is a little foggy on the camera but I love our conversations I love the messages that you send me from time to time regarding just very sweet things

about existence I just realized my god here we have someone no way you are wearing a midnight gospel shirt oh thank you well I feel kind of bad because the person who designed it

I thought it was like special design just for me and then she put it on her store and I am like no no no I paid for that design and you are not getting any of that money so I hope you are not pissed about that but you have no idea what you did on jewish twitter when you put this on your show ahh

you blew so many people's minds really? that is the cabalistic diagram that is the tree of life I know are you a metaphor and on a water slide it is like how many times do you want

to make my brain explode was that the goal it is like the goal is soul by the way the goal is soul but other than that I think the goal there wasn't so much a goal as much

when you start getting into the cabalistic tree of life you are for me at least you begin to get the sense of oh I am encountering something more than a symbol here is this thing sentient what is this thing is it talking to me

why is it talking to me you start asking questions what are you what do you want from me can we hang out more often I feel very blessed to have you in my life

I am really trying to keep it together you tell me when I am not you are keeping it together you provided a voice that is just talking about my lane

you might be my lane is that weird to say I will tell you why nothing is weird to say that is not right I think the number one just knowing myself well enough to understand

I am someone who is just interested in stuff and also knowing that there are legitimate people like you who have dedicated their lives to mysticism to healing it makes me

I just feel like the thing I have to put on cigarettes it is great but I don't know long term which is why but I do love thinking about these things and specifically

when I look at the various lineages that have impacted my life you know for sure Judaism specifically the tree of the Kabbalah the tree of life

and of course a lot of my most of my teachers started off as Jews and then some of them you are still considered a Jew even if you are a Buddhist I wasn't sure you are always in the club

cool that is good to know that is good to know I wasn't sure if Ram Dass good to know he is as much in the club as the string wearing black hat

to fill in you are in the club my grandfather was Jewish but it is matriarchal so I don't get to I am going to call on some favors I am going to see if I can pull some strings

but it might be tough we might have to snip I am snipped there is a work around I don't know how graphic we are going to get for the audio I am snipped there is a little bit more

but you are definitely you are a friend to the tribe you are saying I have to get snipped more there is not much left there is not much left we got there quickly we got there quickly how quickly can we get to your private parts

is this a record no but the what a mystical tribe what a mystical tribe and so much in western culture has sprung out of

the thousands of years of contemplation the thousands of years of processing the thousands of years not just in terms of mysticism but psychology itself all of these things seem to be bubbling up

out of that tribe tell me why I think there is the perennial wisdom the perennial wisdom do you consider yourself a guru no I do not do you know what I don't consider myself any of those things that you said to me

about a student of mysticism a healer I am an average joe but your average joe in my tradition in my faith is constantly doing these mystical ideas and practices

whether or not you are aware of them or not I am wearing strings right now can we show this for the listeners he is showing me these strings which by the way I am not certain what they are called they are called cc they are worn on a four corner

and they are supposed to be a meditative device which is again for most people they just put them on in the morning make a blessing and go about their day but if we stop and pause and use it as another touchstone to remember something like you would be like

whoa there is a lot of autism going on around him when a special needs camp right now so I apologize I want to be blown it is beautiful it is a beautiful scene it is service for our fellow men

because we are all trying to connect on a soul level here but in terms of like I am just a regular guy who is just doing the things but it is part of the day to day it is built in and the more you study about it the more you learn about it

the more you become hopefully connected they could which is this idea of attachment of again it is the opposite Buddhism is like being not attached we are trying to fully attach to what is we are really connecting to what is there are so many similarities and I am just learning about these things

I am just starting to see the similarities and I am so attracted to Buddhist thought but how it informs my life in my lane I am not looking to go to Ashrams I am not looking to go to Dharmasala but I can take from your teachings and I can take from Sharon Salzburg and Joseph Cornfield

and Joseph Goldstein and Tara Brock and be like how does this inform my life and my traditions and my faith and I see there is a lot of overlap and we just we are going we are trying to get to these places

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God bless you Fields Music Can we talk about Vecude a little bit because I was just having a conversation with a friend about depression and how with depression it's like you get this

suddenly things that aren't good for you become attractive things that are like it's like a grab your bed suddenly has this like magnetic quality an extra heavy duty gravitational field you're drawn into

activities that create a sort of exponential increasing gravitational well why depression is deadly the more you listen to it the more you get pulled into it it's an illness

increasingly difficult to get out of it it's because eventually it just tells you to not talk about you is inviting you to not even utter the words that you're depressed so it's like they're of opposite is Vecude

finding like getting drawn into the gravitational well or field or some being attracted to God is that Vecude I think Vecude means big it's again it's that awareness that we that we all

possess that natural awareness that we all possess when we're talking about seeing God like we have to get out of the old man in the sky right yes which again is it's a hard that's a hard myth to break out of sure you know stern father whatever your whatever your relationship with your dad was you really

looks like the same relationship you have with God yeah right it's like oh it's that guy it's like oh he doesn't really want to talk to me or he doesn't want he's pissed not my dad or he's pissed oh my that might be my dad hope he doesn't listen to that I don't know what he's pissed what's he pissed about and again there's a lot of

intergenerational trauma that the Jewish people have suffered and so you start to project your own but in terms of really connecting to what is and what is happening right now that's divinity that's the way God wants to be perceived in the moment

and so the negative feelings per se and this is also very similar to I think Buddhist psychology is okay this is the weather this is the weather right now and and we talk about in an anthropomorphic way that there's also God experiences you know the sadness and the suffering the struggle

there's actually here's we're doing some some some quick you know right now in the Jewish calendar which is you know always sort of aligning ourselves to the the the zeitgeist of the moment there's the we celebrate or we mourn the destruction of the temple which was

the ultimate fusion of the physical and spiritual the temple in Jerusalem yes and and it was destroyed I don't have many thousands of years ago but on Sunday you know jewelry will will celebrate this day of mourning this national day of mourning

where we sort of lost that connection it's called Tisha B'Av where we we go through the morning you know like there are different you know rules of mourning like we wear certain clothing we fast and we we suffer you know that and the

Mitzvah the commandment of that day is to suffer you know and and afterwards the Mitzvah you know the commandment is to be joyful again but for that day is to really to sit in it you know without getting without getting swept away but we're not we're not denying

the feelings we're not denying the emotions and the reason why the temple was destroyed the sages teach us is because of you know people weren't loving one another there wasn't there wasn't that that that love towards one another and that in that world I don't want to be a part of that so again it's not a physical

removal but it's a you can't you can't sense that anymore we've lost that ability and you learn you learn the Kabbalistic Sparrow the books excuse me the Hebrew books and it talks about how creation could even have occurred how could creation occur from the oneness from the

divine that is right how could there be that way and then you have this concept from the the the Ari who is the you know a mystic who lived in in spot in the 1400-1500 the historical sky and I'm just getting into this so you know where we're all

this is all no but this is I'm an amateur like my people like you met you've met enlightened people right I've met enlightened people yeah so when I say you're a guru you're like no no no you know Ram Dass or Neem Karoli Baba

Neem Karoli Baba who if you read about him the man was expansive as the sky yes right you read things it's like oh my god wherever I am I could he can feel me because he's love yes I've met people like that yes I've met people like so when I talk about it I'm a total noob

like I'm a total hack so you again I apologize to your audience but you know yeah so like I'm a total hack okay no are you a hack yeah the same way I feel that you're a guru you could feel that way about okay but you know it you know no no no Sharon

Sharon Salzburg who is who is my teacher we've never met but she is my teacher she's amazing Sharon Salzburg went to um you know one retreat or something she went to uh I'll get back to start my ADHD is going to kick in but I'm saying we we we can connect on that this is what we do this is what we do

should we call Joe now anyway so she went to Deepa Ma after after retreat and she said she's going she was done and she's going back home and Deepa Ma said to her you should you should teach you should teach meditation and Sharon's like

you know yeah and you know what she said to her she said you should teach because you understand suffering and that's why you're qualified to teach yeah so I think I think you understand suffering yeah I think we I think we all understand something but there are

people who understand suffering and for better or for worse I also do and I run away from this I'm being very open right now you because you're my therapist and guru so thank you this is the safe no one's listening right this is a safe space no one's listening haha

I understand suffering and all I want to do is run away from it like I want I want to just become a real estate agent like I want to I want to just like first off you think I could do a nine to five job no way I'd be great at the water cooler banter but like let's be honest here yeah same but but like

I understand suffering and that means like you have two options you could avoid that you know and like nobody wants to join a hedge fund with me or you can you could teach you know because that makes you qualified it's like well I prefer like to have a different qualification like

I don't know like something else other than the fact that you understand suffering but this this this coming up this Sunday you're saying it's sort of this is the symbol of like confronting suffering

not running away from suffering it's the symbol of like having that moment of acknowledging where there wasn't love in your life right the things where you were like running away disconnecting trying to turn away

and not ignoring it is that the idea is that why you brought it up and questioning God because people feel like you know doubt is is going to get in the way of their but no doubt healthy or holy doubt yeah can can can can accentuate the faith it's it's it's the despair

and that's what I sent you that I sent you that that that flyer that I'm giving to like this and I'm speaking to the staff about this you know about you know especially you know we're still in this pandemic but I'm seeing people are just falling apart yes you know I and we

if you were doing okay before the pandemic you know you you know job was stable kids you know we're getting kicked out of school marriage or the relationships are working fine yeah you got shook but if you were already teetering on the edge before this pandemic the floor has fallen out

for me there's just there is so much there's just so much despair and like just following on social media and I know you've spoken about this just like you know hey maybe you don't want to read everything or you know you know Bo Burnham's like maybe

it wasn't such a great idea to let 20 people in Silicon Valley decide the future education of our children or something like that maybe maybe that wasn't a great idea but like we're emerging from this and it doesn't feel like we're all in this together

it feels like we are really really hurting right now and that despair is what is what the Hasidic masters the gurus you know they were screaming on the top of their lungs like never give up and that doesn't mean it's going to work out the way you want and which is very aligned

with Buddhist psychology right it's like don't give up like hey you might not make it to the finish line and we both know and you know this well then I and I'm staying in my lane here we both know this isn't our first time around this is probably not the last time around and if this is a simulation I would have liked to have picked a different character moving on

I don't want to talk about it because I'm out of my element same you're right just in certain areas not unnecessarily looks but physique wise right we just feel like why would you pick that character a little more testosterone please my avatar I'm flipping my avatar

yeah but wait hold on tell me about this this symbol screaming never give up how are they screaming that what words were they using to say never give up Rebbe Nachman our guru the guru the guru of all gurus Rebbe Nachman and maybe want to come with us to there's the

the new year the Jewish new year which we actually we connected on the Jewish new year that was that was our that was our touchstone a year ago so it's coming up in a month and there's a mass pilgrimage to his to his grave in Lithuania and it makes no sense it makes no sense at all

and it is someone's like oh it's like burning man I'm like there's a lot less there's a lot less LSD but there is this this mass spiritual migration where it's just like he he that was his that was his message of never giving up believing in yourself believing in

your worth and believing that what you do is you have faith in yourself you have faith in yourself you know another another guru said if you have you know belief in God then you are equally obligated to believe in yourself whoa right right as above so below as above

so below 100% if you're connecting with this idea of there being some divine perfect perfect progenitive force and that and you came from and that and you came from that

then how could then you have to accept the responsibility I guess it's a responsibility you have to accept that what are you going to say the thing fucked up with you like you or it's one mistake you're aware we rock yeah I did it again today's program is brought to you by athletic greens

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travel packs today thank you athletic greens I my memory is shot but I can really recall I'm on a bus in Jerusalem and I'm listening to you to say I'm one of your shows and you're saying

just just bear with me for one minute and you did a guided meditation a perfect as you are meditation and I am just crying my eyes out again you have to keep breaking your heart until it opens and you are a heart

you're either a heartbreaker or a heart opener I don't know we have to figure that one out but really oh thank you I mean and I know I'm not alone in this because what your show was able to do it was able to tap into forgetting about you know the tribute to your mom who is you know

really just you know you start to realize how amazing human beings are and can be I mean wow thank you I mean you talk about like thank you and thank you for sharing that and thank you for sharing you know what it means to

to connect to something that's so much deeper and again that death awareness which is something that's coming to my wheelbarrow now I think that's the next book which will never get written because it took me so long to write the other book I can't get your book you know your books unavailable on Amazon I'm gonna

I'm gonna sue I'm gonna sue everyone who are you gonna sue you gotta sue yourself I gotta sue myself why is your book your book is sold out my book is sold out are you aware of that that it's unavailable you can't I looked at it right now like I said to my wife I said I can't even plug

the book because you can't get it I'm the worst it's God's way saying you know what come email me I'll give them my email they can all email me I'll send you a copy of my book okay that's great now wait you said something early on and I love it because you just skipped past it I skipped past it

and again one of the to me one of the guru qualities is that's what they do it's these little time bombs I just think I'm getting better at recognizing them you said the way things are that's the way God wants to be perceived can you talk

about that a little bit meaning what what's the alternative hold on when we think of the alternative to that what's the alternative you're either in or out and and and you messing up

is part of the system he literally built it into the system that you're going to do something off because guess what that's part of it no they mean it gets a little antonomy and it gets a little bit like okay wait a second so how much free will is there

and then we got to get Sam Harris on board like I don't want to talk to that guy I feel really dumb yeah same let's get him on let's get him on I wish I could have the ability to like a Sam Harris bat phone but I don't it would be great to have him pop you everybody wants to be on this podcast everybody I know

I actually so everybody he's so smart and it's great and he's and he sees things that way but again these guys can't get out of their own way because you know wait hold on hold on I'm sorry to cut you up war war what is it

good for suffering poverty you live in a place right now but set with conflict for that's been going on I mean I've been reading this wonderful book Jerusalem it you know it's bloody it's bloody

and at the description of the of it is like this kind of like ancient graveyard but it's so holy and powerful wonderful book I'm sure you've read it but not just clearly not just there like the United States

the way we're living in a country that's been at war for 93% of its history social injustice everywhere you look you're saying this is the way God wants to be perceived helped me understand that what's the alternative

we're put in this world to do some sort of ticu some sort of rectification right there is a there is a shattering of the vessels right that's going back to the Kabbalah again how did the imperfect come out of the perfect and again the language that the Kabbalists use

is God exited the building because there was this unified everything one all love right we're there and then God said you know what for free choice for that existence to be created and again I'm not doing it justice we're talking tomes we're talking people who have devoted their lives to it

and I'm just a hack who just wants to hang out with you which is really pretty much what I want to do all days is hang out with people that I like thank you I really thank you and so I've got to plug my buddy who's doing ketamine therapy at some point afterwards please another guy but but in terms of

you know God exited the world and created what the the Kabbalah say this empty space this vacant space which created the possibility for for for death for Holocaust for flood for suffering it's all of that that's it because the perceived

because once you perceive divinity in something it kind of takes the edge off right yes yes you enlighten beings do not deny that they're suffering in the world now they're just not they're just not so broken about it right they're not

is that has that been your experience absolutely yeah absolutely they're not they're not they're not pretending like oh yeah there's no I mean they're the most they're the most in touch with like the physical day to day which is the most amazing our gurus our gurus

are are so in this world yes and they're so not so not meaning you're tickling people's feet right that's got to be that's got to be in this world right yes but did you feel like he was really like he wasn't always here he was he was here and he was

he was so he was somewhere else that's the description that I that they're there very fair that that's the description and when you're around that you when you're around that it's that's what's so spectacularly wonderfully weird about it is because you've been around humans your whole life

but then suddenly around something that isn't a huge it's a human in the sense that it's it's a you know bipedal with our wings or whatever you're not you're not but you are but right it's a

you definitely go to the bathroom but you're doing it on a different scale you're doing it on a different right I mean well that's in there that that's what so I think that's what so what I love about the stories of Neem Karoli Baba is that you know you see them from a distance

like Ramdas when he first met Neem Karoli Baba he sees this old man on a blanket sort of up the slope of this hill just looks like an old man sitting in a blanket no big deal no big deal so he's walks up to surrounded by

people of course and like but you know you just kind of walk up to it it's the same way people take acid you know what I mean it's like what it's a little swill white it's a square paper what's the big deal what could this possibly do yay big yay big by the way

another Jewish contribution to the culture we cannot forget Dr. Hoffman but anyway the point is the once you get into the it's almost like the opposite of a black

hole you know it's a white hole once you get into that event horizon or whatever you want to call it and I'm sure it was true of Rabbi Moon is that what you call them? no I was staying away from the Moon in this conversation Nachman

Nachman Nachman but I'm sure it was true of that that person is that you know and it was true of Ram Dass too it's true of all of these people is that once you get close enough suddenly you realize like

oh wow I don't know what this is I will see that and I will up that because what we call that we call that Orhatsadik the light of the righteous individual which is again what that's tapping into isn't that you're looking

at someone else meaning here's here's the litmus test for whether this guy is the real deal do you feel like a POS after you meet them or do you say oh oh wait a second that's what I'm capable of that's what I'm potential

that's the Orhatsadik because they're invigorating and they're pushing that button of like oh me too I also have Orhatsadik in me and again we're talking about Orhatsadik which is again this is what they're able to do

because it makes no sense that the two of us and again I want to just pause for one minute and just express my gratitude to the universe to Duncan Trussell to whoever else you know in everything that's led up to this moment you know and to say bless gratitude I can't believe I get to have

these conversations I just can't believe it it's impossible to understand and when we get depressed we forget that yes depression is and again in the Kabbalistic works depression means forgetting your name you forget your name and it says after you die it says after you die

you forget your name unless you're like conscious of it and your name isn't you know your human name is David right you think after King David right it's David right Duncan what me yeah you know after we do the

after we do the circumcision again but you have to repeat the circumcision bad bit I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding you're in we're gonna do the work around sign me up coach you're not selling a lot of tickets

it's like I'm telling you if you want to be in the club you might as well enjoy it you know the self haters is like dude like if you're gonna be in this are you a metaphor but anyway okay well my friend I'm so sorry but I have to there's two of you

you've given me a lifetime worth of ideas to think about so I need to slow it down a little bit I want to get back to the depression I want to go back to Orhad Sadik Orhad Sadik I want to get back to this because

I have some questions about this kind of effulgence and I wonder if you have any thoughts on it so I had someone who was an expert on the near death experience on the podcast it was one of the most remarkable things that happened to me when

I was volunteering with a hospice is that I was sitting with a woman who is probably a few hours away from dying and I noticed that the room was lighting up the room was lighting up and I noticed that she was kind of struggling against dying

but every time she relaxed it was like the room lit up and I've done so many psychedelics when things like that happen I'm just like I don't know is this me or is this happening but I mentioned it to him and even before I got to the question

he's like you're talking you want to know about the light it's called the fay light and when people are dying they seem to have this kind of ethereal light about them is that the same thing or had siddique is it some quality of the soul

that is like when you have somehow managed to get the dust off enough it emanates or something is it a different thing completely? I've never thought of it like that I definitely think that and again I will refer to

what your mom said what your mom said that that's okay yeah of course what she said was so poignant where she said she's never felt more alive when she was fully accepting that this was part of the process

and again that that sort of radical acceptance and I take it to the next level the radical acceptance of this is God this is exactly the way things are and we know when we're around these people they're always laughing those gurus

are always laughing because they're just not taking it so seriously because this is not all there is they're laughing and they're smiling and they're saying yes they're constantly saying yes to what is like yes

or in Hebrew it's Cain my guru is Cain Cain and so is that I think so because you're past this veneer you're seeing through it

the most sobering moments and I'm referring you to Frank I'm not going to get his last names right the five agreements and he set up a Buddhist hospice in San Francisco and he sat with thousands of people and the five agreements that he talks about

are just such banal and such clear truths of showing up and trusting and letting go and I don't even recall them exactly but yeah those ineffable qualities that we're experiencing when we're in the presence of these

of these enlightened beings and guess what when you're accepting the death you're enlightened I mean look at the word you're enlightened you're literally in the light right you're in the light

I don't do grammar wow language of origin no that's it that explains it because it is a place of complete surrender and when I was seeing this woman

what I think is like just a physiological resistance to what was happening meeting complete surrender when there was the resistance it was like someone putting a dimmer down on a light and when it wasn't there like just beautiful vivid wow

that's so cool and we're tying back to the dimmer that's what the Kabbalists say occurred when God sort of removed it's called the tsinsum which is just a diminishment of it but it's never gone it's just that dimmer is gone

and then what we're able to do is there's a re-entrance of this ray of light which is called the kaav and it enters into and that's the divinity and that's going to sort of enlighten you sort of get that dimmer that switch

and you can just start picking it up and there are people who are living with their control panel on a higher level because we're staring at the same thing you'd be a jerk if you were just like yeah there's no suffering kaav that's not helpful but it's like

there is suffering and there's also hope where do these words come from they come from the books these are my friends these are my people I'm hanging on but with Rabbi Judah Michelle I don't know if they're down

he's the chief rabbi of the world I'm learning from these enlightened teachers people get so caught up the problem sometimes with orthodox Judaism is you can get there are a lot of rules but the rules are all supposed to create this awareness and this consciousness but you start to get losing the forest and the trees

and so people are just like I can't eat after a certain time and by sundown it's Sabbath it's a lot of the don'ts but the don'ts are just to create this awareness of being but because of again I'm going to go with intergenerational trauma and I'm going to go with years of persecution

that you sort of like have been in the survival mode and we're getting out of that I have friends now who are working with psychedelics to sort of work with that in a Jewish level and I also have colleagues Dr. Mark Bronstein who we connected through the Jewish angle

who he and I are doing some ketamine treatments with now high dose ketamine with psychotherapy with it with a clinical purpose to treat depression and anxiety and trauma and doing couples therapy with that we're doing this in New York

he's like you don't got to go to Peru to do ayahuasca you can come to Colorado or meet us in New York and we're doing these treatments I just think it is so stunning that

their words like this even exist because the implication is minds spent enough time communing analyzing to come up with words to describe these things you know it's

just a beautiful the implication is just the very existence of the words is beautiful right in the sense that because the words exist it shows like these are like I'm sorry you hear about like and they found a

150 year old bottle of wine and the Titanic but these words each of them feel like that infinitely old linguistic wine bottles that are sort of like they're keys

that's what I was looking for keys, fermented keys exactly is right because once you get the word then you now you have a kind of handle within which you could start examining something very closely but without the word

it's more of like a kind of intuitive sense Kav for example the amazing thing is the Kav the etymology and the Hebrew word of Kav of line is also from the word which means hope

that ray of light it's not light it's the closest word that we could use as a metaphor are you a metaphor to what is going on but it's not an actual physical you can't touch these things you can't touch these things but you know

I'll give you another one that's going to help you I hope you've never heard this one what's the magician's phrase you know the old school yeah guess what ready? Aramaic for I create as I speak

yeah I create I create as I speak because once you have those words for it once you have the language and again in psychology now words are what get us stuck we get so stuck with language

and again when it says that God created men he's created as a speaking being so the fact that we're able to create language is our blessing and our curse because when we find the right words we can create these realities we can manifest but when you have the thought that I'm depressed

you suddenly become stuck because you're buying into this discursive mind that is constantly sweating out these things so language has such a grip on us so as soon as we're able to sort of remove ourselves from that grip but on the other hand without the words, without speaking

without tapping into that essence those words of prayer or those words of personal prayer talk about how a person should speak in their own language on a consistent basis and at some point you'll tap into prophecy you'll tap into something that's divine

that you're going to tap into something deeper it sounds like you're talking about your laundry list of stuff it's just going to be like I'm going to start speaking and like whoa where that's coming from is coming from a deeper well what do you mean I'm sorry speaking your own language as opposed to like

as opposed to speaking in the traditional form like reading out of the prayer book okay this is an argument I got in a wonderful argument like a nice argument with a friend regarding like Channing, Hari Krishna Channing the mantras and they were like why not just say the prayer in English

why do you have to say it in another language say what does that mean in English and then say that that's exactly what you were saying there were people who were tapped in think for one second what would your life look like and Baba

Neem Karoli Baba what would your life look like without Him can you imagine I don't know I don't know but you've tapped into eternity you've tapped into wisdom and you can't go back from there

again sometimes I have a lot of questions but like these guys are pretty unequivocal and they're not blowing smoke out of their news right that too I can say ass I'm trying to work on that I know you didn't know what you felt

but I feel for a moment here because you don't want to talk about Neem Karoli Baba blowing smoke out of your news it's not appropriate because he's a guru we can't limit him but I know what you're saying having that connection to these types of people

so if they said that there's merit in the Channing there's a prayer there's a silent prayer which is said three times a day and you can get really verbose verbose

verbose not verbose just very rude but if you start to do it as a mantra and you believe and again it's all about intention we're going through the motions

it don't mean anything on the outside people might think you're a very wise person but we both know it's all about the intention because at the end of the day how much control do we really have RUTZO RUTZO is will desire

you want to be the biggest podcaster in the world you want to hang out on the show with me all the time it's out of your good but that's who you are we believe in that and that what you do matters a lot less than what you are

we believe in human beings not human do-ies whether or not it looks like the way you want it to look if you have 10 bucks in your pocket and you say I really want to give charity but you don't do it that's not RUTZO if I could teach one thing I'll teach one thing

because that's all I can do not getting into the idea of free will and free choice but in terms of the proximal effects and the Buddhist thought and the Jewish thought do we really have control you were born the way you were and you were born to the family the way you were

and you married the person you did and your kids are going to have their things and at the end of the day how much control do they really have thank you because I do think this is like once you do get into the secret society of becoming a parent

it's a very big secret society but it's a secret society in the sense that you see something that I don't know that you can get to through contemplation of the thing maybe I don't know I didn't so it's not fair to say other people can't there's talking about it and there's reading about it

and there's intellectualizing about it and that's very sexy to you when you're younger because we're very enamored by the genius and the ivory tower of academia and then you meet these people and then you experience you're like oh that's what love is oh this is a perfect

being and that perfect being literally just jumped on your wife's bed and I don't care about this with their dirty feet and it doesn't matter even a little bit even a little bit but also the free will part it's like when you when I'm looking at Dune

and I'm looking at Forest I'm looking at Erin and I'm trying I love those names I love those names I'm trying to figure out how did this happen and how much control did I have over this you know Erin and I will talk about where like there's no way we could

have met and not ended up getting married like there's it was like you know when you hear you know that thing but then also when you start thinking who named did we name these kids or did they

tell us their names in our dreams Jewish tradition 100% says you are granted something called you are granted divine inspiration by naming your kids because the name is the essence your name contains your essence

and so I love it it's so beautiful I'm laughing it's so beautiful and I hear the way you talk about the kids and again I have a kid my job is just to stay out of her way if I just stay out of her way because she goes through life believing

that the world is unicorns and rainbows I'm just gonna say I'm just gonna stay out of your way I come home and I'm pissed at the world and I feel someone squeezing my ass right? did you ever squeeze your dad's ass?

no right I'm good I'm not the only one and I go I dare it I dare it right now I dare it not now this is not the right time she's like Abba that's the the Hebrew name for dad it's a palindrome

you know through and through you're gonna be their dad forever mom is the same thing and it's Iman Hebrew Abba your tushy your butt it's so mushy and like oh what are you gonna say to that like alright

I'm gonna try squeezing my dad's ass and see how that goes that'll strain the whole thing out no but we're I actually have a son with special needs I have a son with special needs and this is part of my part of my part of my and I'm just like

okay and again my guru said he said to me the tzadik said to me in you know wherever that's happening you agreed to this I feel like I would remember I feel like I would remember that but when I live with that awareness

when I believe that acceptance and I do because I believe everything else he's saying and call me crazy and call you crazy but guess what I'll tell you a story from Rebbe Nachman Rebbe Nachman tells a story where there's a king Rebbe Nachman said people tell stories for people to fall asleep

I tell stories to make people up and they're very deep and they're very capitalistic and I'm gonna send you a copy of them and you will trip it'll be Burning Man 2.0 and so I'll come with you I'll come with you I'm done you come to Iman

I'll come to Burning Man more human than you man and so and so the king's advisor in a vision or in one of his like dreams saw that the grain was gonna be tainted there was gonna be tainted grain

and again people like to say that it was some sort of fungi some sort of one of these things instead of everybody who's gonna eat the grain because you cannot eat the grain because you'll starve is going to go mad so he brings to the king and the king says so what should we do he's like let's store enough grain

plus that we won't have to partake in the wheat and then we'll be sort of immune to the insanity he says well if we do that then to everybody else we're going to be perceived as the crazy ones right so he said what should we do what should we do he says so you know what we'll do

we'll eat the grain but we'll both put a mark on our foreheads so we'll both know that we're crazy so you and I we have the mark on our forehead I'm blessing you right now I'm putting on my we might be crazy but at least we know at least we know

that we're the crazy ones so I'm telling you brother I'm telling you that that is wild we're just touching that I'm not the right guy for this I could put you in touch with some people maybe not want to come on this show and just take you on this beautiful journey

because my faith and your faith is just what people need and I hope you see that from your show because you did it for me I'm egotistical enough to say that if there's someone out there like me you gotta believe it's relevant to I mean that's part of psychotherapy that I struggle with

it's like people coming in with the same problems but if I look at it and say right because we're all struggling with this that doesn't cheapen it that makes it more beautiful that makes it more again that holy work but I struggle with it because the suffering becomes

you know it's a flaming lip song like is it getting heavy you know as heavy as can be listen listen I'm speechless I'm not literally speechless I want to talk about this mark the

because you know one of the things that can happen if you are habitual user of cannabis as I have been in my life at times is you will forget that you ate marijuana you will forget it'll just be something you're like I'll have a little bit

a few hours pass and suddenly oh my god I'm going nuts and then you're like idiot you why did you do that you ate weed in the morning before breakfast and now you're going to pay you're gonna pay but the moment you remember that

then it's not quite as bad it's only terrifying when you forget this is what it reminds me of it's like the moment that you start reminding yourself oh okay okay this I don't but the difference is

I know I ate weed in the story they know they ate wheat what did we wait what did we eat we were bored we were bored it's the condition

and the Baal Shem To the the founding master of Hasidu which is again just a reintroduction it was kept on the DL until he let it he opened it up he said for this to survive for this tradition to survive

people need to be tapped into the inner work and they can't just be checked and there's something beautiful about checking the boxes going through the motions and doing the practice and it's meditation, it's yoga it's the breathing, it's doing the work but if you're missing the inner workings there's a lot of spiritual narcissism

also going on out there and so what he said was the creation and the words are what how God created the world through letters, through divine speech which we believe is constantly and consistently innervating the world that's not actual physical letters

but there's this speech, there's this language and this is the world as God talking to us so he said the word for Galut which is what we're in right now this is the nine days of the destruction of the temple that the word for Galut is the same he said that's just forgetting

and redemption is, you know the Hebrew word for that is is remembering and he says the difference between that is just adding this one letter which is again that divinity that's it, it's just that one

basic the words are the same you just add one letter for exile and redemption forgetting and remembering it's impossible it's impossible to always I'll read it to you

I'm sorry, I just mean like I'm so it's to me it's like how did it happen that in the evolution of language in this particular language it is so spiritually precise

that there's a like a literal mathematical aspect to it we believe it was not a human creation, I mean, most people are like you know what, this will be a cup let's call this a cup, but in Hebrew the biblical Hebrew

is from my belief perspective believes that the Hebrew letters are the building blocks of creation and so if you're going to be using that and so the words are so specific just like in the Buddhist psychology

if you say the word faith in Buddhism and if you say love in Buddhism you're not talking about the love meaning they are really precise so take that and amplify that because now it's not coming from the Buddha's

unbelievable discerning mind we believe this is the building blocks of creation I know you're about to read something, I just want to emphasize that redemption is for forgiveness with God added to it

oh wow that is so cool it's so cool, if we live with that awareness and then there's a positive commandment every day to believe that God took you out of Egypt Egypt is not a physical location the Jews were slaves in Egypt

anytime you're in servitude to one of those desires, again it could be the physical pleasures it could be those impulsive things it could be that depressive mindset where you feel again, the Hebrew word comes from the word straights from that narrowed, constricted way of being

so that constricted way of being when you're not seeing yourself through the orhatsadeh, when you're not seeing yourself the way Ram Dass saw you, or saw himself when you're looking at yourself like that then you're in Egypt and you have to remind yourself

constantly and consistently that I could get out of Egypt if I got out of Egypt once, I could get out of Egypt again that's remembering that's redemption forget your name your name of who you really are and that name has to be a chip off the divine block because again, you can't be a flaw

in the system that's part of it it kind of, God worked it out for us I was like, if you messed up, it's because of you that's your fault but we also believe that God says I messed up too Tisha Bove is the day where we say

hey, you know what's all this for and we read a beautiful I'll send you a clip I'm actually going to be reading it for the camp we read a scroll with a beautiful mournful tune and it's called Echa which is just like

how could it have happened but it also comes from the word Ayyeka which is what God said to Adam when he was in the Garden of Eden and he says, where are you and again, my guru and Rabbi Nahum would say where am I right now

Echa, Ayyeka, where are you God doesn't need to know where Adam is also there was only one dude in the world if you believe that story you can't lose track I sometimes lose my kids, do you ever lose your kids sometimes it's terrifying the worst, even if it happens for a second

it's so bad 45 seconds, that is hell by the way that is hell, 45 seconds at the beach is hell, I know what that is that is hell so God saying Ayyeka God saying Echa where are you

you have to be asking yourself that question constantly, where am I right now remember, because when you forget the eye, that's your ebbs again, you lost it it's not the physical servitude it's not being away from your home it's forgetting

your life you're a divine being you are love and again, it sounds fluffy and it sounds beautiful but it's beautiful I love you so much I love you, thank you so much

this is really like it's like the most I'm just a regular guy on the street this is this art I'm just a regular guy I'm a good looking guy if Warby Parker wants to

can I say people that aren't sponsoring your show Warby Parker should be sponsoring my face people are staring at my face all the time I love your glasses Warby Parker my friend Dr. Mark Bronstein is doing some really amazing healing work

with ketamine in a clinical setting Mark Bronstein every conscious medical in Colorado we're going to be opening some clinics in New York hopefully is his clinic open now if you want to come out to Durango, Colorado right now and spend a week with us

we can make that happen I'm just saying if people listening wanted to people listening can reach it Reconscious Medical I believe that's the website you'll give it to me I'll put the link out since I can't plug your book because it's sold out I see now why your book's sold out

I mean all of this is so but none of it's mine I will be the most self-effacing and again what we talked about this idea when you're in the room with that person for season 3 that's called Bital

in the capitalistic words complete nullification but it's not negating the self it's negating that ego because what comes out is the true essence and that's what we're striving for and you see it

these people they're not to be trifled with Biddle is the is the nullification of what's obscuring the cough the light yeah that's a good one and Biddle is that ego

and when you're in the presence of the presence of Ram Dass they're so they're so not taking it's not even like taking yourself seriously it's not that it's just like you are just there's something and it's there

it's either there or it's not either for them and when they're talking to you and you start fetching about something you did last summer and they look at you and it's like that's not who you are that's all you see yourself

can I tell you a very quick story one of my friends I'm not going anywhere I'm in heaven right now I'm in eternity one of my friends I won't say his name he was invited to a place where

one of the Dalai Lama's oracles was hanging out and at the time you've been very depressed deeply depressed like really not just like I feel bad today but very bad heavy heavy enough that he got invited to go to

the Dalai Lama's oracle you know what I mean you have to be like where it's like that level like okay okay come here come here and he said that he walks into the room with his being and he's talking to him and within a few minutes

he's trying to remember what was wrong he can't remember like it's just being around like he can't it was just gone like there and he was like spinning his wheels like wait what was I what was I unhappy what was what was this because

this quality you know that is just there it is just there it's it's it's and then so I guess in the way that you're saying redemption is what happens when you stop forgetting your connection to God

then I guess maybe when you start remembering your connection to God you forget your connection to the what was that beautiful vaikud is that the word vaikud yeah so when you you would you can't maybe you can't remember both at the same time maybe there's no way to

have a good is that is that accurate I'm sorry you're giving me these like awesome equations you just said it meaning can you be a grateful person and depressed at the same time I don't I don't see how we don't see how you can't be depressed

when you're living in this state and that doesn't mean that there isn't heavy things going on we're not denying reality right yeah that's the thing is like in asceticism is not praise there are times to be ascetic there are times to fast there are times to be chanting there are times we prayer but the real work

like the greatest glory and the greatest is in it's in the trenches and we have this war thing of like you know there has to be the separation it's like no sex is beautiful eating is holy right there there are ways to do it though it can't be in a gluttonous way

yeah it has to be done in a way of real of real you know sanctity but we don't look at this world as a you know oh he messed up this one I guess you know this

simulation you know just got to run it through and it's like I'll try again next time oh this is this is the way it's supposed to be and there is that dialectic of like okay so I'm good how could I be better like yes meaning when you're living in consonance with your spirit and your body that is the rebuilding of the temple yes

there's going to be a physical manifestation of that when you're doing that and when you don't have when there is that internal struggle when there is that fight when there is this you know you're tearing yourself apart you've destroyed the temple and that's what we're trying to rebuild person by person I have

to thank you for something very specific now because what you've given me in this conversation is not just something I had forgotten but something I have been perpetually confused about for decades and you have helped me

completely unravel it and I really have to thank you because I just up until this point have not understood redemption and that's what you just gave me I just didn't understand the possibility of it how it works the physics behind it the math behind it and I

thank you for this because that is what you gave me in this conversation it is so beautiful so sublime in such a perfect exposition on on the subject I really want to thank you for that because wow what an incredible

what an incredible perfect kind of math there it really is it's coming it's coming from our tzadikim it's coming from our gurus and we are blessed you know again I like to you know what did I do in my previous lives to be able to to have this you know

and then we can remember that you know like it don't deserve anything the d-word you know we're exposed to we've been exposed to people and again there's a certain disbelief that like I don't think I'm supposed to be in this club but like I I know people

I know people that I know Duncan Dr. Benji I know you and now they know you can we hang out is that is that is that I think we have so much fun I'm fun like I'm good vibes I want to hang out but I want you

I want to we this can only be the first of you on this show please we can't we can't just stop now like there's too many things no no I'll tell you another teaching from the masters please it says like you meet somebody you meet somebody

and you feel like you've known them forever it means that you are neighbors in paradise you know there's certain people you're just like where do you guys know where do you guys know each other from and it's just like oh this this isn't this wasn't this isn't the first go around this is not the first go around

I've been I've been your guest on this podcast yes you Dr. Benji look at this look at this scroll in my notebook it looks like a madman is just scrolling these I can't tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom your your your your humor

first of all I know you don't see yourself as one but your therapeutic style because ultimately I'm not a master therapist I do I do think I understand suffering but what I do really try to cultivate is just holding space which I

actually I think I'm good at you know that and that goes along with that and you your natural the laughter and just the inserting of just a word here and a word there and I'm like this guy is just a therapist you are

a therapist of the soul and I'm hearing it from your guests also like you know you have your your meditation teachers on you have a big Nick turn Nick turn on it and like he's he said this he's like you know what you're receiving from him

you're giving back you're really and that's that's called the or Jose that's called the the the you know the you know the reflecting light there's an Oriashar that's coming to you and then there's an or Jose and it's constantly coming back and forth and back and forth and wait what's that called

there's an or or Oriashar which is the direct light is the or Jose the light that we're reflecting back we're all reflecting that like back you know and that's that's the nacha that's the that's the that's the that's the pleasure that we can give to God what can you give God

what do you buy the guy who has everything and the answer is a midnight gospel t-shirt it's a you can give you can give him your yeah you can give him and again your kids are not put on this earth to give you nacha they're not here to give you that you know like we get lost in that but like

but they're they're it's like their their existence is just that yeah that we messed them up I think like oh you have to be here for that purpose you're here to find we're friends listen man doctor I'm going to have to mop my mind up off of the floor my studio

after this conversation save me save me thank you will you please tell people where they can find you and thank you so much for thank yous for this time no I'm just I'm just I'm just you know I'm going to put on my on my LinkedIn profile

friend of Duncan Trussell we have a joke you know like like you know like you know like they're they're they're they're righteous people who are each pellet like wondrous people they call they call themselves wondrous people and there are people who are poil yushuot that they are able to they're able to

what's poil they're able to enact you know yushuot or redemption so that's I'm a poil yushuot you know like and I'm just I'm just bringing redemptions you know I'm bringing bringing salvation okay hang on one second if you can call me your guru am I allowed to call you my rabbi

yes that's pretty much my claim to fame that's what I do with Dr. Bronco he's like you could be my rabbi I said I I said I don't want to be your rabbi I want to be your co-therapist he's like I'd much have you be my rabbi because that means I've made it deal deal deal deal then the deal we have a deal rabbi

thank you so much can I put that on LinkedIn can I put that on LinkedIn yes yes absolutely am I twitter bio am I twitter bio absolutely absolutely confirmed okay I was gonna love me no but I'm a therapist in Jerusalem

and in New York and I'm doing some ketamine treatments with with a fellow psychiatrist and Dr. Mark Bronstein and we're doing really good work with treating addiction trauma and depression and I hope to bring it to Israel at some point but I would love I would love to just be able

to talk to you for hours and you know and just bring you into some meet some amazing people this is only the beginning we're beginning and again we're starting over and over and over again I love you I guess it's the continuing continuation rabbi thank you so much for this time Shalom

and again the goal is soul and the goal and again God bless God bless you and bless you Adikrishnan thank you that was Ben Epstein everybody all the links you need to find him are gonna be at dunkintrustle.com

much thanks to our glorious sponsors and much thanks to you for tuning in we'll be back next week with two episodes until then Hare Krishna with one of the best savings rates in America banking with capital one is the easiest decision

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