Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 461: Aubrey Marcus

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

Aubrey Marcus, warrior and really wonderful person, re-joins the DTFH for an intense one! Check out Aubrey's podcast! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: BetterHelp - Visit betterhealth.com/duncan to find a great counselor and get 10% off of your first month of counseling! ZipRecruiter - Try for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/Duncan Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site. ExpressVPN - Visit expressVPN.com/duncan and get an extra 3 months FREE when you buy a 1 year package.

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and the great ejaculatory orgasmic reality that is human existence, then you've come to the right place. Aubrey Marcus is here with us. We're going to jump right into it, but first some quick business. A tremendous thank you to Zip Recruiter for sponsoring this episode of the DTS.

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That's patreon.com forward slash DTFH. And now without further ado, friends, welcome back to the DTFH. Today's guest who has just returned from a deep dive into the ayahuasca realm in Costa Rica. Get ready. This is a really intense conversation with a really wonderful person who's got a great podcast,

Aubrey Marcus podcast. The links to that will be at duckatrustle.com or just Google it. But now everybody, welcome back to the DTFH. Aubrey Marcus. Welcome, welcome on you. That you are with us. Shake hands.

No need to be blue. Welcome to you. It's the duckatrustle. Duckatrustle. Wait, you're at some kind of ayahuasca resort right now? No, I left there. So we did spend a week there. Did a series of three journeys at a place called Soltara.

And then instead of coming straight home, because with home comes everything that I left behind at home. And so I decided to just hang out in Costa Rica for four days with some of the crew and integrate and just take my time before I dive back into the default mode world. Oh, no. Default mode world. That's where I'm broed so deep in the DTFH.

I know. I mean, I got so many roots in there deep. Welcome back to the show, man. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you, brother. Yeah, it's great to have this conversation with you. It has all conversations with you. Oh, God, I love any time I get a chance to see you.

It was so cool seeing you back in Austin. And I know what you mean. Austin's a heavy place to live, man. That's a really busy, intense vibe out there. I'm not saying it's bad, but having been up here in the mountains a little bit and brushing shoulders again with like a city and that vibe and everything, it was a little more intense than I expected.

It's a great place to birth things. There's so much energy there right now. It's like just this nexus and you can dive in and then harness some of it and start surfing. But it's, yeah, it's intense. It's a lot. Yeah, I think as long as you do what you're doing or I think it's like either you,

if you're living in a place like that, you got to make time to head off to wherever you go to to get out of the default mode world. Or if you're living in a place like Asheville, you need to dive into that. Those energy vortices just to, you know, get reinvigorated. But I'm really interested in what you just did, Aubrey.

And I know we've talked about this before, but I've got new questions for you. But maybe we could just talk about this, the ayahuasca retreat center itself first, kind of get the setting of the story of what you just went through. Well, you know, to tell this story, we have to kind of go back to the very beginning because I brought back my very first shaman,

Maestro Orlando Chuhendama of the Quechua tradition who's known as El Dragón de la Selva, the dragon of the jungle. And my very first journey was going down to Puerto Maldonado and they had another crew that brought in a series of shamans. And the shamans introduced themselves. And then, of course, the dragon introduced himself. And I've been obsessed with dragons since I was three years old, like a little thread guiding me like that movie,

Signed Some M Night Shyamalan Shit, where I was like, one day you're going to meet the dragon and he's going to change your fucking life. And so you're going to be obsessed with dragons. So I chose him as my shaman and I worked with him six times. And then, you know, my life took me to other shamans and other places in Peru. And I felt this deep calling to go back and work with him again.

And so I'm connected with the crew at Sultara, which is a beautiful retreat center. Typically, they only work with Shepibo healers. So there's a couple different traditions that serve ayahuasca from Peru. There's the Shepibo, which is probably the most famous. They have probably the most famous art that comes out of it, all the patterns. And then there's the mestizo tradition,

which is mestizo meaning mixed. It's kind of a hybrid of a variety of different cultures that has their own tradition that's evolved over thousands of years. And then there's the Quechua tradition, which is where a lot of the language comes from. So if you hear words like Otorongo, that's Jaguar and Quechua. So it's become like a deep part of kind of the ayahuasca lore as well. And so he's from the Quechua lineage.

Grandmother, grandfather passed down to him. And because Peru is difficult to navigate in right now, I flew him out to Costa Rica. Sotara was kind enough to offer their facilitation, their facilitators. And he offered a ceremony for just me and my closest friends and family out in Costa Rica. What? That is, let me tell you, man, that is like, that's beyond elite. When you're like, I don't even know what the word is for that.

Cause you know, some people, some people they will like, I don't know, maybe like fly in some like famous comedian to perform for their family. Like, cause I know comedians, you've done that. And they're like, it's, it's awesome, a little strange, but it's cool. But you're flying your shaman into Costa Rica to heal you and your friends. That's pretty badass, Aubrey. And that is really intense. So, so, okay.

So how did you, when you want to do something like that, and I'm sorry if we get lost in the details here, how do you set something like that up? Do you email him or how do you reach out to him to inquire about whether or not he'll take a trip like that? It was interesting how it came about because I've been working with ayahuasca quite a bit this year. And so I've already done it six times with some different healers.

And it's been, it's been great. I worked with the Shepibo healers at Sultara in January. And then I worked with some Brazilian and French healers in, I don't know, a couple months ago. And, but I was just called to work with Maestro Orlando again. I just knew that that was going to be the threshold breakthrough. That was the experience that I was really drawn to. Yeah.

And I'd lost contact with him. But then somebody hit me up on Instagram because I told the story of my experience with the, with the dragon on JRE 127, like way back in the day. And so a lot of people who follow me had actually gone to work with him and kept in touch with him a little better than I did. And they reached out and they said, hey, Maestro Orlando is really having a hard time. All the lockdowns, all the restrictions on travel has really hurt his business and he's struggling.

And I was like, oh, wow, like I'm just so happy to be back in touch with him. I mean, I'm happy to support him. I sent him a little money to keep him afloat like, you know, a couple months ago. And then right then I was like, now that I'm in touch, let me organize something that, you know, we can all work together again. So it really came, you know, a decade later, he came back into my life in that way. And that's what allowed me to get in touch with him. But yeah, he's got an email and he actually has a Facebook too.

No Instagram, but he's got a, he's got an old school Facebook. Dragons are on Facebook now, Duncan. Real dragons on Facebook. Yeah, that is such an astounding aspect of the modern age is my meditation teacher, he's always telling me about these like Tibetan teachers that formerly you would have to, like you wouldn't even be able to get there. You wouldn't be able to get to Tibet. It was almost impossible.

But you know, now they're like broadcasting from places that were used to be completely inaccessible. So that's pretty wild and beautiful. So you, your shaman comes to Costa Rica and then you, when you do something like this, do you, I'm just trying to imagine like, what's the sort of lead up to it? Do you gather everyone together? Is there a shared intent? Does the shaman convey something to you prior to the ritual or to the, to drinking this stuff? Or is there a sense the shaman has of what is supposed to transpire?

Like how does, what's the gateway into the experience, into the ritual itself? Well, everybody gets on a dieta it's called, which is like a restrictive diet to prepare you for, and you know, create the cleanest vessel possible for Iowa to get in and do the work. So cutting out things like salt and sugar and extra spice and pork and different things that are restricted on these diets. And you start to spiritually, mentally, physically prepare about two weeks in advance. And then we arrive and, you know, he offers what, you know, he tells everybody what he's going to do, which is basically hold two intentions. One is the collective intention for the group coherence resonance in this collective healing

and also the protection of the group. And then individually as well, and he'll work with each person individually for our own challenges, which our challenges are always universal, but they're also specific. So he's holding two intentions. One is one to one, you know, the shaman with you. And then the other is for the collective space itself. And, you know, ultimately he's just in a place of receiving and trust. Like his, his maestro is ayahuasca.

Ayahuasca tells him what songs to sing, tells him what mechanisms to use, whether he's going to use cinnamon or whether he's going to use tobacco for his specific healings, what's called soplados, which is where he does like a one to one healing, just him and you. And how much ayahuasca he's going to give you, you know, whatever, all of these things just come through him in the moment. So he doesn't burden himself with a lot of forethought about it. He's just done this for over 30 years. He actually started drinking when he was 11.

He's 55 years old now. So he'd been drinking ayahuasca for 44 years, serving ayahuasca for 30 years, and he just knows now to just trust, you know, trust what the medicine is telling him, trust what is going to facilitate the most impactful healing and, you know, really drive people towards their true purpose. A big thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH. Not that long ago, I gave y'all a hot tip and pointed out that the domain name surpriselotionclown.com was available.

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Thank you, Squarespace. Check out surpriselotionclown.com. How does he react when people, and I don't mean it in the net. They don't trust him in the sense like I don't trust you as a person. How does he react when someone is having some initial fear or nervousness or this is someone's first time? They've never met him before. What is his method for telling if people are ready for it and if they are ready for easing them into the experience?

Or does he? He's a real dragon Duncan. He's a real life dragon. This is something like it's so hard to convey. It just sounds like a story, but his energy is really like you're sitting with a great dragon. He just has so much power, but with that immense power is this type of gentleness and this quiet confidence and an easy laugh. I've always said you can tell a spiritual master by the sound of their laughter

and he'll just be there laughing and just holding this quiet confidence that there is no doubt in his mind that you are going to heal and that by the mere fact that you showed up, you're ready. You wouldn't have showed up if you weren't ready. The resistance would have pulled you out of this. I suppose in an extreme case where he saw something that was really aberrant, he would take action, but obviously the group I curated, I'm watching for that too. I know everybody really well and they were ready.

It's interesting because he holds that dragon energy where he's not going to coddle you, but he's just going to be there like, we're here, we're here to heal and you can handle it and I can certainly handle it. This is what I'm born for and he just kind of presides like this mystical being, just emanating this love and healing and just immense power and you get the sense that even when he's officiating ceremony, you're only seeing a fraction of what he's capable of. He's giving it his full intention, but nonetheless there's just levels and levels and levels.

If things got really awry, then the dragon would be called to even more and more higher levels of power. Do you ever get into conversations with him about the shared vision that so many people have with DMT where they do see reptile creatures? They do see these advanced beings that do show up as a kind of dragon-like character. Do you all ever talk about what those things are? Yeah, he believes they're real. He knows them, these are like his friends. He's dealing with these beings all the time and I actually talked to him about all of his

because he has his own visions because he takes the ayahuasca, he sings the ikaros, he presides over ceremony and watches all of the entities that come in. I'll tell you some of the stories of what he saw and what his interpretation was. Right out first ceremony, he saw Buddha enter through the door. He's worked with Buddha a little bit, but there's a couple Buddhists in our group who were actually wearing Buddha necklaces and kind of calling in Buddha. So he saw Buddha, but then he saw two figures and these figures were masked. They had like hoods over their head, kind of like bank robbers.

And they were obscuring people's vision of the Buddha, which was basically like the Buddha representing the clear sight, like the true sight. And then there was these forces that were obscuring us from seeing the true sight, like really seeing ourselves with clarity, seeing that equanimous mind and being that equanimous mind is obscuring the vision. So he has a process. He asks these beings, these entities, he says, hey, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing here? And they didn't answer him. And so he has he has a recourse for any being

that doesn't answer him. He blows in a very specific way. He goes like that and he blows with his energy and intention. He just blows the beings out of the Maloka, just blows them right out of there. And so what was left was just the Buddha. And for all of us in that first, it was this kind of introduction to this clarity that was going to be mounting and growing. And so that was one of the visions he saw in the first ceremony. In the second ceremony, there was these women that were dancing

in the middle of the in the middle of the Maloka. And they were dancing around and just kind of there. And he once again, he asked them, hey, you know, what are you what are you guys doing here? Because he wants to see their intention, you know, and he gives them a chance to see if they'll engage with them. And they didn't respond. So once again, the dragon blows them out of Maloka. And then in ceremony three, there was actually a little gnome that walked through and the gnome had a little green hat.

And it was a male gnome with a green hat. And then it was joined by a female gnome with blonde hair, also a green hat. And they came in and they were really excited about him singing because he was singing these incredible ikaros, the songs of the plants. And they were like more and more and more like keep singing. They were really excited about him singing. And so he just did. He just kept singing. You could see their intention.

And then more gnomes came in. There was like another, you know, a few dozen gnomes that just flooded in the Maloka. So he finishes all of his singing and then he gently blows and the gnomes get the message that it's time for them to go. So they just kind of turn around and just waddle their way right out of the Maloka. But he didn't need to blow them out of the Maloka. I was like, these are some kind of, you know, fairly nice, middling beings that still didn't belong in the Maloka, but it was fine for them to come and watch for a little bit.

Okay, can we spend a moment, just hang out with the gnomes here for a second, because having seen a gnome on mushrooms myself and being astounded at the reality that gnomes do look the way people have drawn gnomes. You know what I mean? To me, that was the most shocking and off-putting part somehow, was it's like, oh, they actually do dress like that. Like they do like to wear hats like that. And they are some kind of beings that can see us more than we can see them

and have been around for quite some time. I just want people to know that I too have witnessed the gnomes or one gnome, not an entire family. And I think it would be something of an honor if they were coming to hang out with you, because at least, I mean, I can't base all gnomes on the one gnome I saw in a heavy dose of mushrooms. What's the gnome variance? What's the personality spectrum of gnomes? Who knows? The one I saw was quite grumpy and didn't really seem that pleased.

It knew I could see it. It didn't really seem like, it just seemed mildly annoyed or something, which also was like bothering the shit out of me, because I'm like, holy fuck. A gnome. And it's like, oh, great. Anyway, the point is, I think that it's really, that's one of the breathtaking qualities of entering into the astral realm or whatever this realm may be, or opening your eyes enough to see the sort of the cosmic reality

that there being so much more life around us that we can't see. And that's something that always, I get caught on that anytime I'm lucky enough to bear witness to that. So that's pretty cool. And his take is that these are real beings. The reason why we have all of these depictions of gnomes that look very similar, or depictions of dragons that look quite similar, is because these are beings that exist in the astral, real beings, real energies that take shape in a visible form.

Obviously, we're all energetic to a certain extent, but they appear in a certain visible form and they exist. And that's why we have so many similarities amongst these different types of creatures. And so they appear and they're alive to a certain extent. They don't have flesh, but they have energy. Yes. They come and they interact with us all the time, seen and unseen. I'm not saying this.

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That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com slash Duncan, and you can get an extra three months free. ExpressVPN.com slash Duncan. Do shamans kind of see people living in default realities like colorblind or something just sort of stupefied or something? Is that the condition that we're existing in? We've been numbed down to the point where you have to say that. I mean, I know these things are as real as we are.

This is something that my teacher tells me all the time. They're as real as you, which might not be that real, but still as real as we are. Because we're compacted into matter, we have this kind of weird snobbishness or something. Because we have this density, even if we are mildly aware of those beings or you see one out of the corner of your eye, you're lucky enough to be sitting in the woods and you look off into the woods and you see one of the things or whatever.

So many people have seen it. A lot of times when people see that, they're like, well, that's my imagination. It's running amok today. And then they just forget about it. But do the shamans see us as kind of spiritually illiterate or something? Brutish and just lost in a real dense layer of reality? I think they look at us like a multi-dimensional radio that is just only able to tune to a specific channel normally.

And when you take the medicines or you sit with someone who's tuned to other channels, you can open up different channels to different dimensions and access information from those dimensions. So that's really what you're doing. And the more you open up those channels through medicine use or being around people who have those channels open, because that's one of the things about being a human is we're in this shared reality. We pretend that it's all about us. It's just us.

But we're always in a shared field. And so when we're in the shared field or in a shared medicine field, we open up a whole spectrum of channels. And those channels go all the way to the first or ninth dimension depending on your cosmology, where the divine is, pure unicity. Either the ninth, which is void, or the first, which is the energy, the word, the creation of the divine, all unicity. So it goes from there to all of the different layers.

We're hanging out somewhere in the third. But then there's all of these other dimensional realities that you can start to tune to and open up to. And I think it's not so much that it's a judgment that we don't have those channels open. We just haven't taken the time and care to open the channels. And we also have stories. We have the wrong stories. We're not told that we're a multi-dimensional being.

And it's possible for us to open to that. And without that belief, half of our bridge is closed. We have to clear at least the first half of our bridge so that we're open to these different things. And sometimes that does mean imagination. Your imagination can be part of the bridge, but something from the other side also has to meet you on that bridge. And that's really what happens in these ceremonies.

That's what Ram Dass used to say, is that imagination is the gate. That is it. That's the way you... He would say, I love... My imagination is real. This is a tool. And again, I think another sign of the times is that the imagination is like... It really does get kind of... If you talk about your imagination too much,

it's like, okay, baby, what are you going to do? You want a coloring book. You know what I mean? You want to do finger paints while you do your imagination. It's like, that's the world that we're in, where the imagination is this insanely fast simulator where instantaneously, using your will, you can picture just about anything.

It might be a foggy, muddy version of it, but you can picture it. So what you're saying is this is one of the... This thing that you're calling the bridge, which I'd love to hear more about, this is like something that you use to cross this bridge into whatever this realm is. Is that what you're saying? A lot of times, for me in particular,

there'll be kind of a fuzzy sense of things that will be available almost like it's there, but it's not quite there. And if I use my imagination to start to... What does it look like and start to build it in my mind? I'll start using these kind of Legos of imagination or something, and then all of a sudden, that thing will really come through

and catch what they call the bridge, the Chakaruna. So the Chakaruna is the bridge to another form of consciousness. And I think imagination can be a huge part of that, the openness, the belief, and then of course, the medicines and everything else that I mentioned. But yeah, absolutely. And when I'm in the deep, deep quantum, and I've experienced what I believe it feels like

to be disembodied and to be just in the soul of the etheric body, everything that you want to appear appears because you think of it. You think of it and it comes to you. It's not like you navigate through movement. It's you're there in the quantum of all possibility. And if you want to speak to someone, you just think of them and then they appear to you.

And this is how it works. Sorry to cut you off, continue. No problem. The Bardo state in Tibetan Buddhism, you have just described it. This is how it's been described to me. And so this is a disaster for many people who have died because they have, and especially who haven't had any kind of practice,

taken medicine, who have been fully subscribed completely to the idea that, oh yeah, you're just your body. And then once that is eliminated, that's some kind of void, infinite void or something like that. So what happens is your body's gone, but you're still there. And you are that imaginative process somehow and anything that you're thinking is going to appear around you.

It's described as this kind of like funhouse of mirrors and that if you're terrified when you die or if you're not prepared for that, then all your fear starts appearing around you and it's a really rotten thing that can happen to you if you haven't done any kind of training. But it's exactly what you're describing, which leads me to believe, oh, this is like the bridge.

This medicine is a connective point to the Bardo in between life and death. Does that resonate for you? Does that make sense? Totally. I mean, I think Bardo implies that it's a place where you're stuck. In between. It means in between. Yeah. And it definitely was this liminal space when I've accessed it.

It is the in between. Because the other side of the in between, to be in between you have to be in between something and I could feel when I'm in this space, there's a calling for what I would call the second death. And the second death is obliteration into the divine. And that feels like a choice. That feels like a choice.

And it's like, you know, when you say go to the light, you know, and all these ideas about go to the light. Well, I believe in my own belief from my own experiences on all these medicines for 22 years, that that choice to go to the light is the obliteration of self, the reincarnating conscious being that's learning through all of these different incarnations and exploring reality in all of these different ways.

It goes back into the divine, split up into ready for infinite articulation into another million different forms and beings and energies, etc. Certainly I had no interest in doing that when I was in the bardo, when I was in that liminal space, because it was beautiful.

I mean, I could call anything to me. I could call people I loved. I could call places to me. I could experience these magical, magical things that were just there. They were there and I was able to access them and I was free of all of my fears and limitations and all of the petty human things

that kind of keep us locked in this carnal prison that we're in. And not to say that being incarnated is not also incredibly beautiful. We drink coffee, we make love, we hug people, we listen to the music in the way that we want, but so much of that is accessible. It's just a different way to navigate.

But I also see that from that place I could see where I was like, all right, well, I want to fucking ejaculate. I want to do that. Let me find a planet where they still have genitals and we can get it on. I'm into it. I really think that might be my requirement

for incarnation. I'm like, do they have genitals where I'm going? Because that's where I want to go. Well, you know what's so funny? Again, this is another... I'm sorry for any of my friends out there are more academic when it comes to this stuff, but yeah, that is the description

of what brings you back here is actually your horny. I mean, it's... And I remember when I heard that the first... Because the story before I heard the first early phase Buddhism, I thought you encounter all these scary things that are projections and they chase you. They're scary and you run, run, run, run, run, and then you jump into your parents

and that's the Tibetan story of how we reincarnate. But no, no, no, that isn't it at all. The story... And again, I am prepared to be told, that's not it, you idiot. Where'd you get that from? But it's just funny because you are mentioning that the story that I've heard is, in fact,

what happens is there is some fear depending on your karma a lot of times because you don't have a body anymore and you've had this body and suddenly you don't. So that's a really scary thing for people who aren't familiar with the possibility that you can exist minus a body. And so, but then in this strange journey

in the Bardo state before your next incarnation, one of the visions you see is a bunch of people fucking and you're attracted to... It's what's so weird is, it reminds me of like, Pornhub, you know, where you're looking at the squares with people fucking in them? It's like that, but the people you're seeing fucking, you're drawn to one of them sexually

and those are your parents. So that's basically how you get born as you get turned on by watching your parents fuck so much that you incarnate in your mother's womb and are... So you're not that far off, man, and you have identified that. And it makes sense because the sexual impulse

is what keeps humanity on planet Earth. If we all universally decided to stop fucking, we would go extinct. It's, you know, it's the procreative impulse is the impulse that keeps things locked into matter or keeps us locked into matter. And also, there's a fundamental impulse that we all have and that impulse is to merge with God, right?

Like, we crave emerging with God. If you're in the Bardo, if you're in the liminal space, to merge with God is only... You can only do it one way. From my own understanding, you can only do it one way and it's permanent. It's obliteration. So that's the only way you get to be God

when you're in this astral realm. It's the only way. It's the real way. It's for reals. It's never coming back way. But if you get to incarnate as a human, there's a variety of ways that you can merge with God, one of which is sex. In that moment of deep, rapturous, orgasmic sex where your breath and your body is merging with another being

and you reach that climax state, there is nothing else but the single sound of merge, of union with God. It's that orgasmic moment where there's nothing else. The mind collapses, the body collapses, time, space, everything collapses and you're one. And this is the power that sex holds. This is also why we're drawn to it.

And there's other ways too. I mean, as a human being, you can smoke five MEO DMT and merge with God for an hour. And do it just for a little bit rather than having to do it permanently for reals. And so I think there's some immense advantages to being a human. We get to actually taste the entirety

of dimensional reality while being in this body. So I think, yeah, as that discarnate entity, we crave it. We crave access to this. And also the lessons and the growth and all of the things we're here to do. But we want to merge back with source and we can do that here.

That is a really beautiful thing. And I think a lot of people, they feel guilty when they get all horny. And it's like, you know what I mean? They feel like weird or like, I'm sorry, I just want to fuck. But also what you're really wanting is to commune with the divine intelligence.

But your primordial experience of reality has taught you that's fucking, because it's the way in. And again, in the same way you might be in the forest or wherever and see one of these hyperdimensional beings that for whatever reason you tuned into, you forget about it. And I think a lot of people, when they have sex

and they're describing and do experience that moment that you're describing, they don't remember it. They remember all the lead up to it, but they forget that part. And so they keep going back because that's what they're looking for. You know?

Or maybe they do experience it, but they haven't made the connection that that's God yet. That's why I love them. They don't have the language and they don't have the framework to understand it. And also, look, I really believe that much of what organized capital our religion has done is try to restrict us

from our own access points to the divine. Because they've built their empire as being the middleman. They're the middleman between us and the divine. And so what have so many of them done? Well, they've made sex a sin, because sex is one way that you can access the divine right on your own, the true divine, the divine beyond judgment. And they've put this interstitial superposition

into a judgmental deity that's going to judge you and you tried to use that to actually block our ability to access the true states of unity consciousness. And I think this is one of the things that we're still dealing with, not only as it regards to sex, but just judgment in general.

Because you really access God. God doesn't judge you at all. You know? You don't have to ask for forgiveness. You're already forgiven. Try to be unforgiven. Try to get real true God to be mad at you. It's insane because you're God too.

You know? I can't be mad at my children. You know, I'm making you mad, but it's instantaneous forgiveness. I have had my, just yesterday, by two and a half year old and an eight month old, both of them at different times in the day, yanked the shit out of my beard, man.

Just like, vicious, vicious. You know how much that hurts. It fucking hurts, man. When I was in Austin, I saw you. I was like, hey, Aubrey, and yanked your beard. You'd be like, fuck you, man. What happened to you? We would probably be doing this podcast.

But I think the relationship of God to the creation is that. And there's so much pride and ego and imagining that you could really upset the source. You know what I mean? There's a lot. It's sad that you're feeling guilty, but it's also, come on, really?

You think you're going to offend that thing from which all things come? You're going to be the thing where it's like, God damn. Look at Aubrey. Really? Fuck you. It's amazing if you're praying for forgiveness and just heard it disembodied.

No, fuck you. But yeah, I know what you mean. But, pre-forgiven, I love it. And yeah, I love that. That is the whenever I am taking psychedelics and the kind of healing thing is happening. It's always the message is like, come on. Not even come on.

I love you. I love you. You're okay. I love you. But it generally wrapped up in that is some kind of like, you should be enjoying this. Like, this is for you. This is for you to enjoy and express love within,

not to be all but dragled and terrified all the time. But then I forget it. Well, and people project all of these ideas. I mean, we have a brutal self-judge. I mean, the devil as the judge is inside all of us. I mean, this is an entity that's within us and we'll project it on our deities. We'll project it on God, we'll project it on,

even on ayahuasca. You know, so many people will fall off the diet. They'll have some salt or they'll have some sugar in them. They'll be like, ayahuasca is going to punish me. I'm like, what do you mean ayahuasca is going to punish you? Ayahuasca loves you. Ayahuasca is the spirit of the earth herself and you were made up of the earth,

built atom by atom by her plants and her water and her animals and her air. You think she's going to punish you because you had some salt? No, I mean, have respect and follow the traditions and allow a clean vessel, but there's no punishment there. There's no anger.

You know, all of these things, these are human things. These are human tendencies, as we're kind of wrapped in polarity. But there's no need to project them on our deities because they're just not there. Like ayahuasca will, it is a hellish, brutal, immensely challenging experience that will bring you to the blistering edge

of what you're capable of. But behind that all is love. Like I love you so fucking much that I'm going to heal you at all costs. Like that's what ayahuasca says. And it doesn't mean that ayahuasca is for everybody and I want to make that clear. This is not a panacea.

If you've had psychological issues, if you're not called to it, it doesn't have to be for everybody. But if you're ready and you're called to it, she loves you and she's going to heal you no matter what. Because she loves the you that's emerging. You know, not the you that is.

Whoa, God. You know, that seems to be the key to, because like I, you know, I struggle all the time with judging myself and judging other people. And I try to practice mindfulness so that when I'm looking around and the instantaneous judgment happens.

And I always think, God, you know, what a tremendous limitation to your experience of reality to always be like judging everything as a matter of habit or something. You know, it's like, it's really sad and it's really like turns the dimmer switch on the universe, you know.

And, but anytime I remember that thing you just said, which you're reminding me, I'll always forget it. You're seeing a process here. This person, that person, even your judgment itself or your habitual judgment, this is an evolving process. Right now, that's where you're at.

And right now, that's where they're at, whatever it may be, whatever like, you know, free sneezers. Let's take free sneezers, for example. You know what I mean? You're walking down the street and somebody fucking blasts a goddamn loud dynamite level sneeze during a pandemic.

I just like, you want to, that's why we made stocks. That's why you put people in those stocks and you put them in the town square. Free- Give them the feathers. Yeah, yeah. But, but that's a,

we're all in a process right now and that's such an important thing to remember. And again, it's so interesting. Why, why do you think built into this? I don't know if it's built in, but why do you, why is there this quality of profound forgetfulness when it comes to being a human being?

Why do we forget all of these things? This is the thing that I think we love to think of ourselves like a machine. You know, like you program some information to a machine or you type it into your Google Doc. It's there. It's permanent. You can access it forever,

but we're not. We're a living organism that's taking on all kinds of different energies. I mean, I don't know how many times people ask me like, you're going to do ayahuasca again. Aren't you healed already? I'm like, what do you mean healed already? Like that's a destination.

And like I'm not going back into the same world that made me sick in the first place. My own same ideas, my stresses, my judgments, my perceived inadequacies and my own insecurities and all of these things.

I take those, I take those onto certain degrees. The process of healing, the process of remembering is ongoing because we're constantly rewritable. If you want to use the computer analogy, we're a rewritable drive that's constantly getting different programs

programmed in and different codes downloaded in. And so it's a constant, evolving process because the world is not set up in a way that's designed to remind us. I mean, there's so many forces out there that want us to forget

and then want to provide a solution that you pay for or insurance pays for that can actually make you well but it doesn't actually make you well. It just keeps you in this perpetual state of maybe a little bit better reaching for something

that's a little bit more comfortable than the current state you're in. But the process is just an never ending ongoing process. And you can look at that like, I can't handle it, I want it to be done or just say, no,

this is part of being alive. Like you just, chop wood, draw water, you just continue, continue to clean, continue to heal, open yourself more and more to love

and really learn to love life to the greatest degree possible while we're here. Do you think you'll ever go into that light that you're talking about? Do you think you'll ever just like, really do the thing?

Well, I can do it temporarily, right? Like, and that's the beautiful part. Like as my ayahuasca journeys have evolved, I mean, it's so fucking hard, Duncan. Like it's so hard. Like I can't describe to you, I've done a lot of difficult things, long sweat lodges,

sweat lodges, climbed freezing mountains with Wim Hof without it my shirt on and sleets hitting me and dealt with the immense stress of birthing this company. And, you know, I was in an open relationship

and had everybody, all my girlfriends, hate me for years straight. I mean, I've done some difficult things, but nothing, nothing is as difficult for me as these ayahuasca journeys for the most part. It is the most profoundly challenging thing.

And in that challenge, there's this adaptation that comes about. And I had some beautiful adaptations from these challenges and these beautiful liberations. I mean, I was carrying, before this, I was carrying a heaviness

that I just couldn't shake. I just couldn't shake it with my other medicine work. I could burst out of it and I would feel free and like, well, okay, I'm free for a moment. And then it would all

just collapse back in on me. And I think that's why I was called back to the dragon because it could put me into a place where it was just a new plateau with stable footing. And I'm not, I don't have so much overconfidence

to say that I'll never slip back into the muck or the storms may not come again, but I feel like I have stable ground under my feet again. And that's what I want to continue to build from. But the idea that I'm going to burst

into a place where there's a new plateau and I won't slip down from that, at least not slip very much, I think it's possible. And I only say it's possible because one of my mentors and teachers, Don Miguel Ruiz, like he got there.

I saw it. I witnessed it. And I wish I would have been able to experience Ram Dass because I'm pretty damn sure that he got there too. And so if anybody can get there, it's possible.

You know, it's fucking possible. But I think it's just by creating new plateaus, new plateaus that are stable footing, stable ground, and then just continuing to build to a greater state. And that's kind of the goal.

But I don't know what plateau I'll end on. And I don't know where the line of demarcation, where you call it enlightenment, above this line. I mean, I don't know. But I know that there's new plateaus that are available.

And I just reached one. And it's definitely not anywhere close to enlightenment, but it's better than I'd... damn better than it was. Well, that's one of the things Chogium Trump has said that can seem quite...

well, it's literally about confusion, which is... And confusion is on the continuum of enlightenment. Confusion is a quality of enlightenment because, you know, meaning no escape from enlightenment, meaning there isn't a...

the moment that you are aware of your confusion, the question is, well, what part of you is aware? What's the aware part? What's the part that's holding the confusion? And then suddenly you realize,

oh, right. Just like what you're saying regarding the spectrum of sentience that we currently seem to be on the denser side of things in the same way that we... I like to imagine that there are qualities or aspects of every

individual that become not just denser, but increasingly illuminated and lightened and no longer embodied, but still in existence to the point where this thing that we're experiencing is more like a root structure

or something that's penetrating into matter and that, you know, that... that's a wonderful thing because there's a sense of, like, in the same way, like your stories of ayahuasca, they feed me.

They feed these stories. They, like, make their way into this dimension, and they feed people. Ram Dass's stories of, you know, taking mushrooms and having his, like, psychedelic enlightenment

or any McKenna's stories of DMT. They're literally transmissions from this other realm that come into this place, but I like to imagine that, similarly, it goes in the other direction, too, that our human stories, our stories of limitation

and suffering and all that, it must go both ways, right? Like, there must be a desire on the other side, as well. And, again, these are constructed bifurcations. You know, I know there isn't any real line, necessarily,

other than the ones we're creating, but you know what I mean? Don't you think it goes both ways? Totally. I mean, this is, but I think you're pointing to the actual crux of it, which is we create all of these

separations, body and spirit, as if the body isn't the spirit in a certain type of density, right? As if you can't use the body as a way to access the spirit. I mean, in the peak of difficulty, you know, where I could not possibly withstand any more of this.

It feels like the ayahuasca vine in its infinite fractals was reaching up through my body, was in my brain, could control where I look, was going through every, and pushing out every toxin that I've had, emotional toxin that I've had, and it was sweating

out of my pores, purging into the buckets. And the only thing, I had to use everything I could, and one of the techniques was a type of tapping on my body, right? It was like a certain type of tapping that ayahuasca was showing me, like, this is how you're going to make it through.

And if I would try to stop doing it, because I was tapping for, like, hours, I would try to stop doing it, or shaking, like, moving my hand in certain patterns, or, like, making different, like, fast mudras, or my tongue would make these little insect sounds. And, like, I had to let this energy off and move it, but so much of it was about the body.

Like, as long as I was tapping the body, it was accessing my spiritual self, in a way, and that you just understand that it's all collapsed. This is just your spirit in a different density, and that's what it is. And so this is the divine. This is God experiencing God

in the way that only a human being can, because of what comes online from having sensory perceptions, and smell, and taste, and touch, and feel. But it's still just God in a different density, and our spirit in a different density. So that transmission is immediate. You know, it's God experiencing God

in all ways, in all forms. And I think it's important to start collapsing these artificial separations between body and spirit, self and the divine. It's all the one. It's all the one, really. And it's also all of the separation, too. Like, I understand it makes sense

to talk about these different densities. You might as well call them a different word so we can communicate effectively. And I understand what people mean, but also to have the dual meaning of, like, I really get what's behind the Maya, what's behind the illusion, which is the unicity.

Now, do you... I like to entertain the idea that... and McKenna played around with this, and a lot of many different people have, like, when they've encountered these forms that you encounter when you're taking ayahuasca, or DMT, or a nice dose of psilocybin,

and you realize, oh, this is real. Like, this isn't bullshit. This isn't a dream state. This is very real. And then there's a feeling of, like, I think you could take something here. I think you could literally pluck something from that place

and bring it into this realm. Have you ever played around with that idea that whatever the particular imaginary, yet very real differentiation between our level of experience and whatever that other place is, is actually thinning, or that technology is...

um... creating the possibility that we're not going to just need ayahuasca or DMT or mushrooms as the bridge that there's a potential to create a technological bridge that's a little more, like, um... stable. You know what I mean?

That's a little less dependent on the plant medicines. It's certainly possible, and I think it would happen from manipulation of our brain waves because a lot of these experiences, these mystical experiences, happen in waking delta. I mean, waking delta is one of the most

profound brain wave states possible. So if there was a technology that could get us to waking delta, I think that could be a really potent tool. Now, ketamine gets you to waking delta, nitrous gets you to waking delta. The problem with waking delta is you don't really have access to remember.

You know, because your brain, the part of your brain that encodes and remembers the different medicine like the encounters that you had, it just doesn't stick, it's slippery. So I think there are technologies that already actually exist that, you know, of course these are,

I guess you could call them psychedelics, but psychedelics are technologies. You know, they really are. And I would be hesitant to, you know, really champion a technology that would give you access to those states, but, and made it a little bit too easy.

You know, because this is not just, it's not just benevolent, you know, encounters that you have. There's dark energy too. Like the polarity just says in life it exists here and it exists there. And I think the plants are like a great guide. Like you want mushrooms holding your hand.

You want ayahuasca holding your hand. You want these things to really hold your hand as you make this journey. And even better is if you have a shaman who's there as well, who can anything that comes in. And of course we can learn those same techniques, right? Their own ability

to accept, to love what comes and then to move through them. So we're all learning in this process, but I do think that the, although there could be a more, a simplified, more facile solution to get access to these planes,

I don't know if it's the right way to do it. Like this might be the best way and you just have to pay the cost. You have to pay the toll. It's like you can't cross the river sticks without paying the gold coin to Chiron or whatever. You need to pay the gold coin

and sometimes that gold coin is your pain, your vomit, your endless diarrhea and really dealing with your own demons. Poor Chiron. What a terrible currency to have to get paid in. What does he do with all that gold? What does he do with all the diarrhea? Oh great.

You're going to give me diarrhea. Okay, I prefer gold, but if that's what you've got, I guess I'll put it in my diarrhea safe. Yeah, I just, you know, with just some of the things I saw when I was taking Ketamine,

it gave me a sense of like there being some kind of project or there being some kind of like long-term project that involved a kind of outreach program for lack of a better word. I feel like

it sounds so reductive and silly, but a general sense of like, oh no, we're coming. We're getting in there. Like where you're at, there's so much suffering. Where you're at, there's so much unnecessary suffering and

we're coming and and McKenna has talked about this too and like, I think it's a common vision that people have of this sense of like, oh yeah, you and everyone, we're all part of this project and the project involves

that place expressing itself more and more into matter. The Kingdom of Heaven appearing more and more and more, not just as parables and stories, but as actual like extruded matter, like it

pushing itself in, just like that's what we are. That's what the soul is. We've ballooned our bodies out into this material realm and I don't know, I just have always gotten the sense of like, yeah, you know why it's weird? You want to know why it's so weird right now

when everyone's like, shit, things are getting weird. It's like, well, the reason it's weird is because they're coming up. It's coming, it's pouring in. I feel that same way. Some of these stories, we resonate with them because they point at truth. The two towers

rise in the Middle Earth, in Tolkien's world, right? The two towers rise, two dark wizards and you could imagine these dark wizards as anything, the mechanisms of power, control, enslavement, greed that we see. These towers are more visible and more evident than they've ever been

and so with that, what happens? What's the natural reaction and adaptation? The fellowship comes together. The orcs have risen in the two towers and so the wizards, the elves, the dwarves, the hobbits, the humans they all have to come together and I think we're seeing some of that

that's happening as well and that's like, I have an amazing amount of confidence that everything that we're seeing has been necessary to bring people together to get them beyond their petty differences. Right now we're in the time of differences but this fellowship is starting to brew

and in addition, I also feel like to go to the Game of Thrones story, when the dragons came to their land and they hatched again and dragons were back they have this short scene where everybody's magic starts working, like street magicians

used to play with a little bit of fire could now do all kinds of tricks with fire all the conjure, like magic was back in and it feels like now is a time where not only is the fellowship coming together but magic is more available like I felt it more available I felt myself capable of doing things

that I've never been capable of in these kind of spiritual states and I've seen it with so many friends like within the last two years almost since the pandemic there's been an acceleration of people's ability to access really impressive healing gifts

that are just like snapping and coming online and so it feels like as much as the darkness rises, so too will the support and the help and the light and it's just this natural balance to the order of things. Is it just a choice Aubrey?

Is that what it all boils down to? Is it just some simple like when you're having a dream and you're getting chased by a lion and then you remember oh, it's a dream and then you just make a decision to go into a different dream is it as simple as that?

Is it just that like whenever I'm getting all caught in the darkness or my own bullshit or watching Fox News all the time or like fucking to Sean Hannity or any of the weird shit that I've found myself doing I always

and I start coming back to myself nearly always with the help of some psychedelic I'm kind of astounded by how it's just a choice like it's and maybe that's the painful part about it

is that it's as much horror as there is in the world there's that much good but you're picking the horror to keep your mind fixated on you're picking or it's like this is really reducing things to the most

idiotic level but like there have been times when I've been scrolling through my Twitter and I'm thinking God, Twitter, what a fucking garbage platform and then I remember I followed everybody who's tweets I'm reading

you know what I mean I decided to tune into this is it just a choice? is it as simple as that? it is but it's a difficult choice because our mind can choose something very quickly our mind moves at the speed of light

but we're actually making a choice that involves the entirety of our being all the way to our densest part and the density of our body are the different ways in which our receptor sites of our brain have been used to a certain level of melancholy been used to a certain level of stress so we actually have to choose

not only once but keep choosing over and over and over again because the body moves like a tree that bends toward the light like we need to be the constant light sort and just wait for the branches to start moving that direction because it's not going to happen instantly

you can't say hey tree there's the sun over there there's water over there send your roots there immediately and move your fucking limbs and get over there to that light like it doesn't work that way you can't even father or mother that's just like come on buddy and be sweet to yourself

this was another adaptation that came from the ayahuasca it was like just be sweet be like I know buddy I know I know it's chaotic I know that you have a little anxiety I know I can feel it take some deep breaths that's it deep breaths alright keep going you're doing great

just keep moving this way and you start just coaching yourself towards that direction I know I know it's scary it's alright come on we got this back towards the light back towards the light and it's just this constant steady steady process

so yes it's a choice but it's a choice that has to be made extended over a longer period of time for it to actually stick Aubrey I love these conversations me too thank you so much please keep going you know it's been too long

and when you come you know you come when you're coming back from these places it really is like you tell me things that sometimes a reminder sometimes it's brand new information but always you know what the healing that's the other great thing about healing

it's contagious the same way sickness is contagious if you're healing yourself you might be surprised to find that people around you start healing too and that always happens when I'm having a conversation with you so thank you Aubrey yeah brother of course I wrote a poem that came through during

ayahuasca that I wanted to share and we can close on that I'd love to hear it thank you alright ayahuasca is not a drug it is the drug it is the nothing will ever be the same change your fucking name

scream at the top of your lungs writhe in the agony of ecstasy surrender to the mystery submit to the intensity of the fractal God thrust into polarity drug it is the antithesis of intoxication

an annihilating sobriety waking you from the insanity of participation in your own delusion it is the antidote for the constant mendacity of the pretending masquerading wounded lonely

scared little boy and girl in a world that needs love spray painting the masterpiece with the graffiti of the judge showing you that all along you've been wallowing in your suffering gasping for a breath of truth

a fish with iridescent rainbow scales hooked by the seduction of power pulled from the sea of the divine stranded on the boat of purported progress fodder for the insatiable machine your pink flesh putrifying reaching for a prescription

a vaccination to cure the desperation of living in separation all the while forgetting that you come from the ocean because all you see is the boat filled with dying aquariums

ayahuasca is not an answer it is the answer to the riddle of why we are here it is a place where magic is real where dragons guard the horde of God the trees can speak witches open portals

wizards sing incantations devils tempt you your shadows come to dance and angels whisper in your ear it is a journey into the underworld a descent into madness down a ladder of swirling vines a burning away of

temporality in the white hot cosmic forge of eternal revivication it is a trip to a reality where all things have meaning where a breath can change everything tobacco can heal anything and there is nothing

you are able to hide it's the most terrifying exhilarating life affirming plunge into chaos to seize the pen of your destiny and write an epic fucking story ayahuasca may not be for you but no one

can do it for you just know she is there and she loves you the real you the one waiting to emerge you the not running anymore not hiding anymore

stand in the storm of your pain screaming do your worst I'm here for it all you ayahuasca is not a drug it is medicine sign me up yeah man maybe one day we'll get to sit with the dragon together

I would love that I'm ready now I used to not want to do it now I'm ready I mean I could like having had two kids I think that that's great preparation that's the ultimate dieta Aubrey I love you thank you so much

how can people find you Aubrey Marcus podcast is a great way and at Aubrey Marcus that pretty much everything else I think it's at Aubrey Marcus pod on YouTube but otherwise just my name you're the greatest Aubrey thank you you're the greatest see everybody

that was Aubrey Marcus everybody all the links you need to find Aubrey are going to be at dunkintrustle.com big thank you to our sponsors and most importantly thank you for listening I love y'all stay real hopefully

gnomes are coming to listen to you sing keep your eye open they're there I'll see you next time until then Hare Krishna family get-togethers to fancy occasions wedding season 2 we do it all in style dresses, suiting and plenty of color to play with

get fixed up with brands like Lilliput, Stafford and Jay Farrar oh and thereabouts for kids super cute and extra affordable check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp.com all dressed up everywhere to go

jc penny a good time starts with a great wardrobe for kids to wear get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford and Jay Farrar oh and thereabouts for kids super cute and extra affordable check out the latest in store

and we're never short on options at jcp.com all dressed up everywhere to go jc penny