Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 472: Martin Olson

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Martin Olson, infernal writer and comedian, re-joins the DTFH! Check out Martin's new book! ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF HELL II: The Conquest of Heaven A Demonic History of the Future Concerning the Celestial Realm and the Angelic Race Which Infests It - Available everywhere diabolic tomes are stored. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Upstart - Visit upstart.com/duncan and see how Upstart can help you with your debt. Bespoke Post - Use code DUNCAN at checkout for 20% off your first order! Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site.

A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JCPenney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting, and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford, and Jay Farrar. Oh, and thereabouts for kids.

Super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in-store, and we're never short on options at jcp.com. All dressed up, everywhere to go. JCPenney. Cosmic Captain, we're calling out to you. The great time has come, you've become confused. Your mission was to spread the truth,

but now you just work on your glutes. Leave me alone, Cosmic Voices. It's leg day. It's leg day, it's leg day. I'm gonna get my glutes a-ripplin'. Gonna get my cast of Folger. Gonna get my butt a-humpin'. Humpin' butt on leg day.

Gonna push the squat machine. Free lift with some weights today. Leg day, it's leg day. Your house, make me fire. I'm here to save the world. Now, work your glutes out. Leave me alone. Kick the grim reaper down.

Do a tap dance on his head. Not gonna listen to the funny voices. Boy, I'm gonna have pretty legs. My shorts will bulge in the summertime, son. Shorts will bulge in the summertime, son. Leg day, it's leg day. I'm gonna have so much fun when my legs are bulging, rippling, veiny, powerful.

Logs are steel. Why does my arm hurt so bad? Guess I'm having a heart attack. Guess I'm going into the light. Oh shit, I was supposed to be the Messiah. That was a track from the musical Jerry Cologne's Leg Day. And that musical is on Broadway. I wrote it, I acted in it.

I got awards for it, and you should go see it if you ever end up in New York City, a town that I will never return to after the way I was treated at the Plimkin Party on 4th and Meet Street. Sorry, I don't mean to start off on a negative note because we've got an incredible podcast for you today with the brilliant Martin Olson.

He is a writer, he's a comedian, and he is infernal in the best way possible. And thanks to the Archdukes, Dukes, Princes, Principalities, Princeses, and Queens and Kings of Hell, we have a new book from Maestro Olson, The Conquest of Heaven, Encyclopedia of Hell 2. And before you even listen to this interview, why don't you just press pause and order the book now?

Not just because I would love Martin to suddenly witness an incredible exponential leap in his book sales, but also because you're gonna love the book. It's hilarious and it's got amazing illustrations by Tony Millionaire and Mahindra Singh. It's just good, order it. All right, everybody, please welcome back to the DTFH,

the great Martin Olson. It's the Duncan Trussel, the greatest mystery. The greatest mystery is in the lore of ghosts, is your house haunted or is it you who are haunted? Let's start there. Martin, welcome to the DTFH, welcome back. It's great to see you. Thank you, Duncan, I'm so happy to see you again.

I'm so happy to see you. You are just, you're one of the things that makes us wanna come back to the city. But yeah, that's a great question. That's an important question. What do you think the answer is to that? Well, I guess probably the same as you, it's both, you know? Right, yeah.

And the question was whether in the lore of ghosts, which is apparently just some kind of a collection of different phenomena that have to do with energy excess that replays itself, or is it? Unable to move on through transformation? Yes. And also it's the stuff of delusion, because who knows where the delusion or hallucination

are not real? Just they're filtered out by our consciousness. Right. No, that's the, isn't that the, that's kind of the fallacy, is people just assume, because it's a delusion, it must, it's not real, because it's born from ignorance, it must not like have a real existence. And somewhere in that thought process,

they don't even realize they're negating themselves. You know, like. Like. Because we're all walking ghosts. Yes, yes, that's that. One of the greatest jokes now is about how when the, when the evil president came in and where all of this disease and everything happened,

was that what really happened in the joke structure is that the nuclear weapons went off and we're all dead. And the virus and plague is a symbol of purgatory. And even if you're a person in a spirit, let's say, in myth, you don't know you're dead. You don't, I mean, you still see other beings, but everybody certainly is dead, death-like, zombie-like over the past couple of years.

Plus the evil president and the surrounding by medieval stupidity. I mean, it's not even real. It's a lot. So that joke has a lot of power. It's a good joke. And you know, the assumption that all these Christians with a rapture shit, you know, you see the car

with a bumper sticker that says, in case of rapture, this car will be a manned, you know? Like, which is fucking insane. Like, just try to do the ethics of that. Like, shouldn't you not be fucking driving? Like, or if like you get raptured and your car runs over, somebody to you then instantly get unraptured. Cause like you shouldn't be in a operating heavy machinery.

If you think you're about to get teleported into some alternate dimension, like it's insanely irresponsible. But the, but you know, the assumption in the rapture is we get raptured to paradise. Like maybe we were raptured, Martin. Maybe that's what this thing you're talking about. We got raptured, you know?

And like, like there's some other earth where there wasn't a plague. There wasn't the mad king president just chugging right along, except we all vanished. And they're just having to deal with the fact that like a vacuum appeared. They're probably not even thinking about us anymore. Well, here's another wrinkle in it is the,

I mean, first of all, we don't even know what we're talking about. That's the funniest thing. But in terms of everyone vanishing, if there's in a spectrum or a continuum of time, no one ever dies. You just go back in time and everybody's alive.

Right. You know, no one ever fucking dies at all. Right. And that's what my book is about. I love your book, by the way. It, the art is freaking incredible. The, like from one of the parts of it that I've read, it's just so, it's just so funny.

The, you know, I feel a little like worried for you because it seems like an arched demon editor. Like that must have been fucking brutal. Like, what was, what was that like? Like what, first of all, I'm curious when you submit what you're working on to an arched demon, how do you, what's the submission process? Is it email?

Did they use email? It's all, it's all a symbol of the actual physical human world, of course. Cause not only are demons and angels in our minds, but they also exist in our thought forms, which is probably more real than real, probably more real than flesh. Same, same real if you, if I had to,

like if we had to put a bet on it, I'm going to go, same real. Same real. Yeah, you're probably right. Because it's all depends on the, your definition of solidity. Yeah. And it depends on where you are in the spectrum

of vibration as to what, which is most more solidity than something else. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the problem is the, I mean, we're dealing with like somewhere the suspension of disbelief thing is like, like it's talk about a fucking epidemic.

You're supposed to remember you suspended your disbelief, but everyone here has forgotten that. I never had that thought before. That's, that's it. It's a mess. It's a fucking mess. Like, how do you enjoy a movie?

Like, it's like really like, what dumb shit is like watching Dune and being like, oh, how'd they get a camera in this other place? This is, I'm worried about these people. Well, although my friend, suspension of disbelief is the essence of earth. It's at the core of earth, which is just human perception,

because that's what religion is. Religion is the suspension of disbelief. Yeah. And you got to like, you know, you really have to believe this shit here. Cause the moment you just even barely start like not believing it, people get so upset with you. Although that's the role of,

that's your role as a comedian and mine as a comedy writers. Cause that is our job to point out that we don't believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're not supposed to anyway. But then, I mean, I don't know.

It's like, I think, don't you find yourself like, kind of like catching belief. You know what I mean? Like some fungus, like all of a sudden you're really buying into the whole thing and you get all tight. I'm a total idiot. I buy into everything.

I've been taken by Conman three fucking times. Really? Yes. Three? Yeah. Three times. Which can you give us a synopsis of these times? Like you can't, in a conversation like that,

so you can't just skip past that. What happened? Just to analogize, I mean, first of all, it's unpleasant to relive that plus the people are still living. And so any kind of shade cast is always. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Okay. So it's not a good way to live. So it's basically to just ignore that and realize you're a moron. Right. And I lost lost a lot of money and it's because I believe people, but in two of the cases,

it was just because I was not perceptive enough. Right. Not experienced enough. Right. You know? So then later on, you realize that some of the most successful people

or are con men basically, but then you realize, oh, wait a minute, I'm a con man. I'm telling stories. I'm just making up stories and getting paid for. I'm like Steve Wright. The first time I asked my,

Steven Wright's one of my oldest friends. And I said, what's it like now that you're famous? He said, I mean, to distill it down, they fly me off to some distant place that I tell lies. And then they pay me and then they fly me back. Yeah. All right. That's awesome.

Yes. Yes. That's beautiful. That's so good. I mean, isn't the problem, not so much the lie telling as much as when you forget that you're telling lies. I mean, that's where you run into.

That's where you really get fucked is cause you're like, you believe, I mean, that I think that's part of the, like the difference between a classic con artist and an artist is a con artist to really pull off the lie, believes what they're selling you, you know? They're like 100% and they're Meisner, you know?

Like they, that's my, maybe I'm giving them too much credit. And I don't- No, tell me, talk more, tell me more about that. How come it's saying leave site here? Let me cancel, cancel the live. Tell me more about that

because you, you're in a unique position Duncan, as you know, but you probably forget all the fucking time. Is it, you've talked to so many super geniuses, you know what I mean? Yes. That who challenge all of your beliefs and thinking and because a lot of everyone, despite the fact that everybody is the same person,

I mean, I think that that's self-evident just through life, human life, incentives is just one life, filtered phasing through different nervous systems. Yes. But the other nervous systems are so different than yours. You're in a unique position to be exposed, have more experience than a normal person by far.

So tell me about the, when someone believes their own lies. Yeah. It's a fundamental thing that I'm so interested in. I'm just curious if you'd talk more about that as a result of all the people you've talked to. Well, you know, like the problem with that, the believe your own lies thing, is it like implicit in that is like this kind,

I think it makes it a little more sinister than it can be, which is sort of like, you, Oh yeah. You know, like, you know, like where or worse, it's more like, you know, I don't, I think- They're their own victims in a way, because I know, I don't remember, my problem is memory. So if I'm a con man, which I certainly am when I'm writing,

because I'm just making up stuff and trying to convince myself as the reader as well, that it's real. Yeah. That I forget, I have to forget and immerse myself in it, so that it's good, you know. And so certainly a con man, as you just were talking about, and it's fun to read P.T. Barnum's book.

Yeah. And all these great con man's books, basically are about making money and tricking people. Yes. And they do, for example, P.T. Barnum in his book, I just was reading recently, doesn't talk about tricking himself, he doesn't talk about that.

That's why I wanted to ask you about it, because it seems fundamental that even if you're the number one consciousness, say you're the personified God. Yes. Let's say after eons of time. Yes. That all of the thoughts and beliefs and energy,

thought energy, which is the fundamental thing, actually solidifies a personified God. And that creature, a pseudo creature, doesn't know what it is, or how it got there. No. I mean, this is what you're saying there. I just heard Bob, you know Bob Thurman, you'd love him. You know what this is?

He's like a Buddhist. Oh, fuck yeah. He's one of the main Buddhist guys. He's fucking incredible. And he was, you like- Wait, what's his name? It's dad. Yes.

Uma Thurman's dad. He is like, he's amazing. I saw, he gave this talk at one of these Ram Dass retreats. I'm sorry, listeners, have you heard me say this once before about, come on. This is exactly what Martin's talking about. The story goes, Buddha meditating. He's intent in getting enlightenment

is he wants to in the suffering of humanity. He is close to whatever this enlightenment thing may be. He doesn't care about his wife and kids, but he cares about humanity. You know, that, we'll cover that, we'll cover that next. But yeah, go back and forth on that one a lot. You know, that is the invitation, but that, but wait, I do want to talk about that with you.

Cause I love it. And it's like one of the major critiques. And it's just, and it's so fun to talk about it because it's so fucking patriarchal and crazy. And like, and it's in a lot of mothers, including my wife, legitimately are like, fuck Buddhism. Fuck that. What are you doing?

You're like, what am I gonna say? I mean, what are we gonna say? But the, so the, so the- So Bob Thurman. So Bob Thurman, right. Thank you. So the story goes, Buddha about to achieve realization. I guess Siddhartha Gautama at this time, pre-Buddha,

he teleports into the like palace of the gods. This is Brahman. And so, and he's going there to ask Brahman, the king of the gods, right of the fuck, well, injures, whatever the fuck you want to call it. But he's going there to ask him, how do I end human suffering? And so Brahman sees him and says,

basically like, get out of here. You don't have an invitation. You got to go, drives pre-Buddha back to underneath the Bodhi tree. What a prick. Well, he shows up instantaneously after that. You know, God times different, appears in front of Buddha and says, look, I'm sorry.

Here's, he goes, here's why I drove you off. Cause all the other gods were up there. Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, they're all hanging out with him. So Brahman comes down and's like, look, here's the problem. Those gods, they think I'm their daddy. And he goes, and the only reason they think that is because I was here first, but I have no idea who made this shit.

I don't know what it is. So I can't really help you. If you want to end human suffering, you're going to have to figure out how to do it yourself. Where do I find that story? That's, that is my book. That's the, the book I'm here to talk to you about was, is a trilogy and the third book is all about that.

Really? You talked to, I'll connect you with Thurman. I would love to because he's also a friend of, of Alan's, our mutual friend. Yeah, ask him, cause I haven't been able to find it. I mean, you know, Bob, I don't know. He, maybe he just like manufactured that story to sort of, to talk, to talk about like, come on,

who are we gonna, it's like a really beautiful way to say like, stop trying to lay all this shit on God. Because like, you know, like if you're, you need to do it. Like if you're going to do this thing, it's, it's like places, I like the story. I like versions of that story because it puts the onus on you to, to, to, to do the thing. And what, and if that, and if that thing you want to do

starts off as a con job, you know, I don't, I think that's okay, actually. That's what the thing I love about Bakhti Yoga Martin or that's what I love about a lot of these Hindu tales. I love in your book that they wanted to fit, Krishna makes it in the top 10 people for Satan to fucking eat though, that was great. Abba number one.

Okay, but, okay, but the, but so what I love about it is it's like, they don't really care about the entry point. Like there is like, what if you come to kill God? Great, because that is a real passionate connection to the divine. That's a great way to connect with God is to absolutely despise, loathe and hate the progenitive force and all its many creations.

Because in that, there's still a something that isn't an ambivalent connection to the, to the source. You know what I mean? And I love that. In that some transformation potentially happens. So, you know, which is why in the Bhagavad Gita it says when Krishna is talking about who comes to him, he says, seekers after gold, people who want fucking money.

He's like naming the types of people attracted to him. And it's like people who want to get rich, you know? It's a very honest appraisal thing. So anyway, there's that story. So I guess, you know, and I love that you're embracing con artistry, admitting it in yourself because, you know, I think that's the first, like, if you're not doing that, then Jesus Christ, how are you going to enjoy it?

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there's two types of con men to put, just to distill it down into, you know, that fake distinction is one who want to control others and others that want to control themselves. Thank you, Upstart, for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH. If it feels like there's some kind of hyper dimensional

parasitic leech thing slowly gnawing away at your heart shocker because you're in so much debt, then Upstart can help. Upstart's the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan all online, whether it's paying off credit cards, consolidating high interest debt, or funding personal expenses. Over a million people have used Upstart to get one fixed monthly payment with a clear payoff date.

They don't just look at your credit score. Upstart considers other factors like your income, current employment, and credit history to find you a smarter rate for your loan. You can check your rate without impacting your credit score in minutes for loans between $1,000 to $50,000. You can receive funds as fast as one business day after accepting your loan.

There's no reason you need to have a parasitic hive of hell wasps devouring your happiness. Use Upstart. You can go to Upstart and find out how it can lower your monthly payments today. You just go to Upstart.com slash Duncan. That's Upstart.com slash Duncan. Don't forget to use our URL to let them know we sent you.

Let Upstart sever the puckering head of your vampiric demonic debt with their sword of justice. That's Upstart.com slash Duncan. Loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application. Upstart.com slash Duncan. Thank you, Upstart.

MUSIC To distill it down into that fake distinction is one who want to control others and others that want to control themselves. A writer who's a con man has to make sure his story is really good because all the religions, the core of Earth is the war of religions. I mean, the winners are the ones with the best stories.

The lousy religions have the lousy stories. So when you're a writer, which is what a con man is, you're not trying to control others really. You're trying to control yourself and your own concepts so that they are fun and they make you laugh and cry. So that's the only thing you could do. But that's what writing is, right? Yes.

I mean, it's not about trying to get an audience unless you're just a little child or something, you know? But if you're a writer, you're trying to control your own thoughts and emotions so that you could make yourself laugh and cry with the best fucking story, you know? Trying to get the best story. You're like embodiment of Satan is so good that, and I've

always suspected you of being some form of Satanist. Any time I'm around you, I'm always like, oh, that Olsen. He probably has rituals in the dark somewhere. By the way, I mean that in a complimentary sense. I don't mean that in a bad way. It's fucking cool. But your articulation of the personality of Satan is really just fantastic.

And as a writer, like, do you ever creep yourself out when you're doing that? Like, do you ever get so into becoming that force that even when you stop the process of writing, you still feel some momentum inside of you, some Luciferian-like momentum? Yeah, that's the weirdest thing. Because of course, I'm a comedy writer,

so the whole idea is that Satan and God are idiots, just like I am. So that's the joke. That's why the story is good. That's the core of it. And that the one life that courses through all nervous systems of sentient beings is also innate. It doesn't know what it is.

Yes. So it's just a matter of playing the experience game. To what end? Perhaps it just was a, I mean, that's the mystery. So that's what the third book is about. How does something sprout from nothingness? And that's the whole third book. Because in the first book, the demons,

hell is overcrowded. Yes. And so they conquer Earth, and they eat all the humans. And the second book, and we introduce all the characters, because there's the mythic Western God Jesus is in it, who then in the second book is conned by Satan to take over hell while Satan goes on his secret mission, is to find if God exists, and if so to kill him,

and then become the king of existence. Yes. And so Jesus in the second book does his thing, and he heals all the demons, and he then has all the healed demons redecorate hell. They have chandeliers, grand pianos, and it just ruins it. He destroys it. Hell is destroyed.

Earth is destroyed. And at the end of the second book, the demons buy stupidity, because Satan isn't as stupid as his creation is, because Satan created the hell cosmos. And that's all he thought existed. But when he comes in contact with Earth and then learns about the mythos of the creator,

then it just really unplugs him and makes him, he wants to find out if he's a created being, because it's all about ego. That's the big Satan joke, of course. So he has to go and kill him, and the demons stupidly mount their own attack because of a whole other circumstances that coincidentally happens, or at the end, we find out that God set up the whole thing

to attack heaven on their own while Satan's gone. And they initiate the time twister bomb, which is the ultimate weapon which destroys time, which is the. So after the detonation of the bomb which destroys heaven, all of heaven's future is gone. So in normal existence, the present and the past are overshadowed by the future, because it

always exists. But now there's no fucking future. Heaven's future is gone. It's a void. It's a time void. So the third book in which by accident, they learn the secret of how everything sprouted from nothingness, the survivors band together

and their demons, angels, and humans in fleets like Magellan into the fucking time void, try to find Satan and save him, and accidentally discover, because there's nothing there, there's no time. There's nothing. So there's only what the perceptions give you and what you imagine. And so they discover how something

sprouts from nothingness, because the big question, of course, is, well, who set that up? How is there a who? I mean, because obviously there's just the life that courses through every. You have to have a body to do anything. Right. So there's no such thing as like some bodyless spirit.

I mean, how does that work? It could work. How? I mean, it could work in a transient way. There's no reason that I could see, especially via some like, and again, it's lazy as fuck, but let's just say, I don't know, alien technology. You know what I mean?

There certainly is no reason that this sentient force that we're talking about, some general tendency towards sentience that happens with just the right conditions are met. There's fucking no reason that that general tendency couldn't get entangled in something a little more permanent than meat. And in that case, you're going to run into problems.

I don't mean meat. I don't mean meat. Meat isn't the only body. Meat is also ghostly. Depends on your very what it depends on what your vibratory surroundings are. I mean, so I don't mean that because I just mean that if you're saying that the life force, OK, well,

that means it's a force that has to be embodied somehow. Yeah. You can't just say life force and not think it through. So it has to have some sort of fucking body. Yeah. Look, the body, but look, right now, just because I have got my face buried deep in Buddhism, all the stuff that you're talking about, it's like I love it

because it's literally like the thing you're talking about is called fundamental stupidity. So I love that you're calling it an idiot because that's exactly it. In this book, I'm listening to you. It's like exactly how it's described. Fundamental stupidity, which is, I think, a retranslation of just ignorance, basically.

But it's like what happens is, according to this, is the stupidity starts when you suddenly find yourself in a body. So now there's nothing you can do except beef. Because how else can you think, dude? Yeah. Yeah. And it gets kind of the thing you're talking.

So the thing that we're all doing is, you know, it's a genuine puzzle that you find yourself stuck in. Because to get back to the haunted house thing, it's like, you know, I don't know if you've ever been on the set of one of these ghost hunter shows, Martin. No, but I was a ghost hunter way back when I was 20 or so with a friend. We put an ad in the paper as ghost busters.

We called it this before the ghostbuster movie. And we went to different haunted places. We didn't know what we were doing. We were just imposters. Yes. Trying to have fun. Yes. Now, OK.

Now, add to that that you've got to make some compelling fucking content on one of these ghost hunter shows. You know what I mean? So somehow you've got to, like, something has to happen. Have you been on the set? I've been on the set of, well, not the set, like the last drunk history that never came out. Derek got a ghost hunter there.

And we were going to wrap it up with like a ghost hunter thing. And I'm drunk as fuck. I'm not like happy drunk either. I just want to go home. I have to shit. And I'm just, you know, like when you get like gross drunk. And I'm like, uh, and like we're like up in a attic and like the ghost hunter is calling out to the ghost.

And I'm like picking up planks and throwing them just to make the noise that they're looking for just so we can go home. But like, I just realized like shooting a ghost hunter show is hell because they have to sit in these fucking, basically condemned moldy fucking houses where there's been suicide steeped in sadness. And they have to sit there and just wait for one creek,

anything, please let something fall off a fucking shelf. They get there, then they get to go back to their hotel and fall asleep, right? But like this to me reminds me of when you start looking inward to try to find an identity, some fundamental central component. You find yourself in the same kind of ghost hunter show where you're, but the ghost you're looking for is you

and it's not there. So you run into this problem, which is the big con. The one of the great cons is if you've spent any amount of time analyzing yourself, you don't have a self. And so you're going around acting like you have this fucking self all day long and everyone knows we don't have it. So it's a fucking mess.

I think it's a little bit different from my world is that everyone does think they have a self because what else are you going to think? So it's only when you actually are motivated by being a writer or a joke writer, probably the only two or a physicist or a mathematician to examine what self means. And then you realize that life force is a better way to put it.

And it's, you know, and somehow it's, it's phasing through all of these bodies or these perceptors, you know? Yes, perceptors. Yeah. It's like the Andy Weir. Do you know the, I'm sure you know it. The story by Andy Weir, the writer called The Egg. No.

I would recommend everybody here. It's only a two page story. I think it's the best story ever written. And it's, it's been translated into all languages and it's been made into dozens of short films. It's all over the internet in terms of YouTube and stuff and animated short shorts and so on. But it's just about basically the, the, that idea we're talking

about that there's no self. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah. I'm looking at it right now. It starts off with you were on your way home when you died. It was a car accident.

Nothing particularly remarkable. Failed nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to know about your brother was utterly shattered. You were better off. Trust me.

Wow. This looks good. It's the best story ever written. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, um, yeah. Well, I mean, this is like the, you know, you, you got

to do something. And so you end up doing this thing that we're all, that we're doing right now. And so, and, and it gets in the, at least the audio book I'm listening to right now, the comparison is when you see a pig and it's looking around in mud for something. It's like constantly like, and it's just like, what's it fucking doing?

That's what, that's the comparison to like the human life is like, that's what we're like. It's like these, the, where these pigs that are like kind of snuffling around, you know, in this like very, you know, but it's a sophisticated snuffling, you know? So it's like, I'm going to take a picture in front of my, in front of this private planning. You know what I mean?

It's like, and that's, and, and so this is considered just basic stupidity. Like, and that's called the, and so the, in the book, it's in Buddhism, it's called the scondas. And it's like this, the scondas is what they're called. And it means, I think it translates loosely into like heaps, but it's basically, if there's going to be a life force, or if there's going to be a thing like a human, that

process is going to flow through these things called the scondas, but the first initial sconda is absolute confusion. Because it's like, what the fuck? I'm not a, I just don't have, I'm not a thing, but I am. And so now I'm going to like start wearing clothes and you know, and then, and this is the mess that we're in. It's the mess. What do you think?

What do you think? Does it make sense? Well, that is the situation we're in for sure. Cause I mean, we're, I mean, we were talking about supposedly serious topics while we're, you know, everyone is wiping their rumps. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's a simultaneous.

I stopped. It's a simultaneous series of things you have to do with in order to have, you have to, you have to feed the body. Cause even like, I mean, a lot of times because we did our ghost thing, you know, I've, I've always been interested in any of those kind of phenomenon that's sort of in between the cracks that, that normal people ignore because it's not fruitful. I mean, it's what most people, including me and everybody have

to, I mean, I had to, had to focus in on, I had to focus in on, on logic and, and controlling my thoughts to try to understand how to do anything. So I'm not, so most people are, are, have a lot of problems just doing that. Luckily, if you're a writer since you're 12, that's all you're doing. And so it's just, it's just that writers have put in more hours

than other people doing that. That's all it really is. Yeah. But I lost my train of thought. This fall, as you get back into the swing of things, Bespoke Post is here with a new seasonal lineup of must have box of awesome collections. Bespoke Post partners with the small businesses and emerging

brands to bring you the most unique goods every month. Are you a dad and you're sick of getting just boxes of diapers at your door and you'd like something for yourself? Do you know a dad who maybe is kind of embarrassed by how excited they get when a box shows up and disappointed when they find out that it's just lotion in it? Then you've got to order one of these boxes. For example, you could order for me their awesome oyster box,

which comes with oysters and everything you need to shuck oysters. Just check, check them out. Just go to the website. They truly have incredible stuff. It's boxofawesome.com to get started. You just, you just take a quiz. Your answers help them pick the right box of awesome for you. They release new boxes every month across a ton of different categories.

It's free to sign up. You can skip a month or cancel anytime and each box costs only 45 bucks, but has over $70 worth of gear inside. Plus, with each box of awesome, you're supporting small businesses. 90% of everything that comes in your box of awesome is from a small up and coming brand. And that's great, whatever, but even better, the boxes are super cool and are filled with really fun, wonderful things

that you deserve just for existing in this world of suffering. Get 20% off your first monthly box when you sign up at boxofawesome.com and enter the code Duncan at checkout. That's boxofawesome.com code Duncan for 20% off your first box. Thank you, Bespoke Post. I will, I love talking to you about writing and cause it, it's like, you know, it's such a, it's so perplexing and it's so frustrating. I'm just curious, like the, you know, I was talking to a friend and

she said her friend who's a writer just thinks up the shit in her head and then puts it on the paper and there's not a lot of knowledge. I know it pissed me off right away, but there's not a lot of drafts. And it really annoyed me cause it's like, what the fuck? Like it seems like anything I start writing, it's like, talk about like wiping your ass. It's like, what the fuck is this? You know, it like, like it takes serious revision.

What about with you? Like what's, how, how long is the distance between just, and I'm sorry if it's a dumb question, but between a general first draft that you put out and the final like revision, how long, how much evolution happens between those two things? No, I love just talking about it cause that's all I do. You know, so it's, and by the way, writing is, is not my favorite thing at all.

Music writing is my favorite cause you don't have to think. Yes. By the way, I lost the visual. Is that significant? It's not significant. I don't know why you lost the visual, but I can see you as long as we got audio praise God, it's working. Great.

So the first book was 30 drafts, you know, about 30 drafts. The second book was probably 20 drafts cause I already did all the hard work on the first book, you know, and it's, and it's a trilogy. And the, so the third book, I just have all notes and stuff like that. And this conversation with you as usual is part of the writing process of the third book. Cool. Great.

Cool. Yeah. Oh, you're back. Okay. Good. I love hearing that about the drafts. I mean, that's like, I'm telling you, man, I like, I just brushed it off when she said it, but I really like clenched my fist for a second.

He's like, are you fucking kidding me right in your head? Like, I know, but here's the other thing, Duncan, we both know that I know for me that I am dumb. And so my strengths are in different areas than the, for example, we talked about Steve and Wright earlier. Steve, some people just, I know another guy, Mike McDonald. Some people just have their brain wiring is such that they can distill a concept down into the perfect joke very quickly.

Yeah. Those are the demons. Those are the demons. You want to find your fucking living demons. Listen, I got to spend like 10 minutes with Zach Alfinakis and realizing like, Oh really? So I guess everything you say is the funniest thing that anyone ever said. You know, like, it's like, it's a comic.

How do you not get angry at that? How are you not like, why did I huff butane in high school? Maybe I had a chance. Why was I into inhalants? This is what I get for that. You know, but yeah, that's it. I know what you mean. Like some people, it's just like, I don't know who knows what.

We don't even need to think about them, you know, but, but yeah, I see I'm dumb and I'm and I need time to like write. You're one of you're one of the ones who is able to distill concepts down with a lot of paradox and salesmanship. You're you're you're one of the real good thinkers in terms of comedy. You're one of the funniest people I've ever met. Thanks. Jesus Christ.

Thank you. Your shit at cabin in the sky or whatever that was. Galaxy cabin. The greatest thing I'd ever seen. Thank you. It was as good as good as anything I'd ever seen. Thank you. Yeah.

Well, especially the episode with Joey. What's this? Diaz. Joey Diaz is the fisherman. Yes. That was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen in my life. It was so fun to shoot that. And also, well, that and again, like that was a collaboration between me and my

friend, Brian Jarvis, who is like super and Brian Jarvis. Yeah. He's so funny. That guy. But thank you. I mean, that's, that's, that's means a lot. Thank you very much. I just, I, I'm coming back.

You know what? That's it. That seals the deal. I'm coming back to LA. I've got to get closer to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what? That's it. That seals the deal. I'm coming back to LA. I've got to get closer to you. I can't be up here in the mountains. I've got to get, you're so, you're so charismatic.

I mean, you're, you're like, you want, you, you are such a charismatic person. You are, man. Are you fucking kidding me? You don't think you are. Like you could do. No, I mean, charisma is the essence of, of, of an illusion because everyone's an idiot. So that doesn't even make sense. Well, yeah.

I mean, it's like, you're like the, you are, I mean, come on. Like you, you are like something of an underground cult leader sort of, you know, like you are. You do. And it's fair to say, I'm not trying to, but we're getting off track here. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I really wonder about this.

So do you believe that there could be legitimate entities, demons, like the real deal. Like, you know, the stuff John D writes about the Anarchy and Angels, the spirits, because we kind of got off track where we're talking about the, and often we have this conversation. I fucking love it. We're talking about the essentially the existence or non-existence of some God, some currently existing disembodied, progenitive force. My feeling is, yes, it exists. Is it permanent?

That is up in the air, if you ask me. But I think if we exist, it exists because, you know, don't you ever play around with like the whole like process theology, the idea that, yeah, maybe what this is it? Like this is God right now, you and me. This is like peak God. This is the crest of the wave of God. Is there some superior, you know, force other than this out there that's like weaving webs of divine orgasmic beauty at every second?

No more than what's happening right now. Or you could say in the entire universe, known and unknown, some total of all sentient living beings in all that chaotic paradoxical, you know, whatever it may be, that is God. But as the evolutionary force continues to propagate itself across time, that thing refines and refines and refines and legitimately might find itself in the terrible predicament of realizing, oh, fuck, I'm God. I'm actually a God now. That's what I mean.

Like that is don't you don't you think that that is a possibility? Yeah, I have this. I mean, yeah, everything you said, of course, but I mean, the the the main thing is whether you backtrack it a little bit to see it. If there's an understanding that this is a possibility, tangential to what you just said, which is that each sentient being lives in a totally different universe that shares different things with other ones, of course. But in some people's universe, because all that is is just fucking perception.

Yes, your perception, you can't possibly know what someone else is thinking or anything. So it's all in your world in your head. So in some people's worlds, there are no gods, because they're not in their thinking. Yeah, no, there's no magic. There's no some people's worlds worlds reincarnation exists. Yes. And also because of the bleed through and because I think the universe is fundamentally funny. I mean, to me, it's clearly the funniest thing.

Yes. That the bleed through is one of the greatest jokes. Because then you'll if you say, oh, reincarnation, what's that fucking idiot talking about? And then you start you look it up or you ask other people and then you find very convincing stories. But that's only because you fucking made the stories happen by looking them. What a mess. It's a mess. What a fucking mess.

And every time I go back, Squarespace gets better, more high tech, more easy to use. If you were thinking about building a website, Squarespace is definitely the technology you must try out. You want to buy a website, you can do it through Squarespace. You want to create a shopping cart to sell stuff. I know I've said it before, but it's important to keep saying it. I have a friend who sells her stinky socks online. All you need is a website and feet and you could theoretically start a booming sock resale business using Squarespace. Also, you can use their technology to send out emails to your clients.

And if you're like me and from time to time just want to make a website and a few seconds, they can do that for you too. It is high powered web design technology and it's all waiting for you at Squarespace. Right now, if you head over to squarespace.com forward slash Duncan, you can try them out. And if you like them, use offer code Duncan and you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Again, it's squarespace.com forward slash Duncan. Use offer code Duncan to get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. And if you want to witness the power of Squarespace, go no further than throbbing super electronic hyper digital glory hole that is Duncan Trestle.com. That's a Squarespace website.

Squarespace.com forward slash Duncan. Thanks for supporting this episode, Squarespace. It's a I mean it is like it's it's it's definitely some kind of I mean it is a mess and it's funny though it's a funny mess I mean the It's funny but and something about that makes me feel like well it could be so you know if you ever seen Grant Morrison's chaos magic speech he did. Okay, so you know remember when he and the main thing that may take you away is the sigil stuff right. Well the sigil stuff but the precursor stuff about how his vision is like drug vision implied that we're like some kind of hyper dimensional larva growing in time that we're being incubated here. And you know, it really was like a Grant Morrison way of just like talking about like the New Age idea well this is a University of souls which, by the way, I find that to be one of the saddest ways to like to like get over the problem of Evil.

You know what I mean like is it first it sounds great. You're like yes we all picked our incarnation I mean I love thinking that it's like I kind of see why I would pick this incarnation. But then like if you're someone who's like, like, you know, I don't know about to get thrown into a fucking like caged because people want to watch you get eaten by a lion. You know what I mean. It's like oh yeah I chose this fuck you. You know, so I don't but but anyway but the funny part of it though or the threads of not just comedy, but like a real personality to the writer. You know what I mean like to me I see repeating comedic patterns that that have within them a quality of such profound cheesiness that like whoever is like scripting this shit is really funny. And I you know it's a very compelling work of art, but also man there's some really bad jokes mixed in there man you know what I mean really cheesy like the names of people like come on you're going to make the Mad King is

going to be Trump. You know what I mean. You wouldn't. Yeah go ahead sir. No no no continue. No I'm just saying if you were in a writer's room that you were running and you were like okay we need to come up with like a shitty president. And I was like I got it. His name is Trump because he trumps everything.

It would be quiet in the room. Like it would be that I mean it would be quiet and uncomfortable and then somebody else be like, you know we'll call him Ricardo exnaceous or something you know not fucking Trump. Well dude I think what you're talking about now, my friend, might be the only inkling of proof that this is all a dream because certainly, yeah, the reality is a is a joke. And so you can't take it as a joke because it's real. But it's a cumulative incremental thing that builds up from all of the thoughts that that are spun out into the into the think oh sphere. And they all sort of culminate in a place and the Trump thing is an example of if you don't think in terms of that absurd thought, which I think is actually true, that it's all a dream. Yeah, that that you don't realize how funny it is. Right.

Right. Yes, right. I mean, yeah, because it then it's just a it's a hell nightmare that you are just like unrelenting hell nightmare. You know, then again, it because I mean to answer your question about about, you know, what do I think I really do think that each person is a different universe, literally. Yes, and that different rules therefore apply to each person. And that's why I think with physics, it's an ever changing self recursive type of thing when you're trying to delve into math about how everything gets started using logic or analogy, both equally as potent. Although analogy probably more powerful. Yeah, for sure is that is that you keep coming going deeper and deeper into it depending on the universe that the mathematician or the physicist lives in. So he may have been brought up by a certain type of a dad or mom. And that colors the way that he does his his his math.

Right. Yeah. So they all kind of get together. That's why it's almost a bad thing. That's why a lot of the big advances in math. I was so I looked this up once because I said, oh, I wonder if that's true. Came from the outside, not the people who are involved with the math scene of constantly talking with each other. So they become a group mind. It comes from the people who are from the outsides who are genius, what brain wiring, who do math that then propose the thing that doesn't even fucking fit what everyone else is doing at all. And then it has to gradually come in and create the new paradigm of what math is, you know.

I mean, yeah, I think that I think that there are as many universes as there are people or sentient beings in the whole universe that that's how many universes there are. And that's part of the fun of it. You know, in another annoying Buddhist annoying Buddhist facts by D trust. There's actually considered to be more gods in Buddhism than there are people being human. Wow. Like, cool being human is such a rare birth. There's way more gods. It's like, kind of, because who the fuck wants to be a human?

Like, if you are if you are in the point where you can choose between God and human and you're like, you know what I'm going to do human. It's like, okay, you do human. I'm going to do the thing where every time I breathe in, it feels like six trillion planets all having a simultaneous orgasm. You do human. Okay. Have fun with the human thing. Go get enlightened. Yay.

You know, that so that's kind of the idea is like, you know, the and also the gods are at least from some of the stuff I've been reading. They are kind of considered to be absolutely stupid and like just dumb and like and dumb to the point where where it's like they don't distinguish. So a god like you give a god like a shit sandwich, you know, like here's some shit. They're going to eat it and be like, oh, it's so delicious. You know what I mean? It's like that. Oh, one of the great stories is with Anthony Bourdain, the guy whom I'm not familiar with, but he went to tribal peoples to look at all different types of food stuffs, which is symbolically an amazing job, by the way, and that they would prank him. They'd feed him like the worms the stuff they would never.

And they would then be howling laughing behind his back and he would be enjoying it and try. There you go. Realm of the gods. That's what it's like there getting pranked by humans all the time, like constantly being fucked with by humans. And that's why you mentioned Galifianakis or, you know, Andy Coppin or anything like that. Those comedians are not the favorites of linear joke joke comedians like Kevin Rooney or some of my other genius friends. But those are my favorites because they because it's all about the prank and the acknowledgement of, hey, this isn't real. This is all we're all just playing here.

Yes. Yes. I prefer that any day. Like, you know, right now, I think just because of the situation, we've got like a lot of linear like the whole linear thing is like really like it's everywhere right now. But I'm hoping that just because of the, you know, we've reached maximum linear comic, you know, observational comic density that like something breaks through that's going to like resume a nice like explosion of absurdity. You know, it's like Tim and Eric came out and they did it for a second. You know what I mean? And then it kind of all got swallowed up back into this like really like serious, serious kindness.

We're doing serious comedy now. That's what's happening. It's serious fucking. And I get that. You know, look, I get I get I've been swept up. Well, like Tim's film, you mean with like because my favorite, I mean, I'm sure it's the same with you. Who's the best comedian? The guy that does the old jokes and riddles.

What's his name? Who the funniest comedian? What's his name? I forget the guy who the funniest comedian. Yes. The funniest comedian is right now. Oh, Neil Hamburger. So that's for sure.

I mean, that that doesn't change. It's always the same. And it's always equally as funny. That's why it's my the funniest, I think it is the funniest. I mean, I can't even believe it anytime. It's just so good. Neither. I just can't believe it.

And it's so incredible in the commitment to the thing and like the whole his whole like ethic behind it. I mean, the guy, I mean, it's just give me a fucking break like that. He's like that guy's in the trenches. He's that he's like that guy is like you a whatever is happening. He's like constantly like building the comedy railroad. And it's been I think it's one of the delights of my life going to see his shows. I would go just secretly to sit in the back and just have a beer and watch him.

I mean, that's that was heaven for me. I got to go on tour with him once. It was the fire. You did not. Yes, I did. He took me on tour. It was truly one of the greatest like experiences is a comic I ever had my life. It was so good.

Oh my God. Are you fucking kidding? It was just like, you know, I don't want to make him if he ends up listening to this. I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable or anything like that. But he's like us. He already was. We're already saying he's the funniest comedian. Not.

That's the premise. Not only is he like the funniest comedian. He's like a really great, great, great person. I know. And like in like wrecking, I think he knew like he knew that I was, you know, at the time I was like it barely been doing comedy or I can't like so he was doing that great thing that like when you get to go on the road with someone who's been doing it for a while, they just kind of like teach you accidentally.

You know what I mean? They're accidentally talking to you and stuff and like, you know, not about spectacular like romantic comedy shit either, but just, I mean, I can, I can remember riding in the van with him and he like, in his, he looks over at me and he's like, see the distance I keep between me and the cars in front of me. You know what I mean? And I was like, I swear to God, like later down the line when I started going on driving myself from show to show, I would, I would hear his voice in my head when I was like

super tired and wanting to rush to the show. Be like, okay, okay, I'll keep the, I'll keep a good distance. You know what I mean? You just like, I don't, I'm not saying that was on purpose or he might not even remember that, but I don't know. Just when you're around someone who's been on the road working really hard for a long time, you just get inspired, but also you see the nuts and bolts of it too. You know,

Oh dude, I got one for you. And it was my father. I lucked out, my brother and I, we had the best parents, right? So, so two things stood out. One was a, and he just saying casually, because he was a tree guy, he would, and a tree person and he was a milkman and he was a house painter. And so we worked jobs with him, my brother Tom and I. And one time I just remember two things that stuck with me and it was the most useful shit

ever. One was, no, when you, when you go into a place if you're camping or doing whatever, leave it the same as when you got there, you know, or even better, you know. And the other one was Paul Simons, Mrs. Robinson's song, it's kind of, why does he, people believe this shit and they're going to be so hurt when they hear these lyrics because it's, why not just let them believe there's things? I never forgot that either. Oh yeah, yeah.

I love that. Those things really influenced me, especially with these books I'm doing. I mean, this, I mean, that's one of the main things. So I have to have a kindness and gentleness and love as being the fundamental thing that's disguised under all of these preposterous, hateful things I'm writing, you know. Yeah, you know what that Mitzi would say, that's all it is behind comedy. She would just say that was, it's just love. She would say it's love behind comedy.

And, and, you know, and, you know, look at the comics that she like, you know, broke, people might look at them and be like, I don't see, I don't, what do you mean there's love there? But like, you know what I mean? That's like cruel or raw or like whatever. But yeah, that, to me, that is, that when that comes shining out through the whatever the particular like structure that you've created in it, people, that's what's going to make people laugh.

You know, not like, and you know, you know, Ramdha said to me once, I was asking about comedy, he goes, he goes, I don't like mean comedy. And it seems obvious you would say that. But you know, I like mean comedy is comedy when there's no love, comedy when it's a sociopath who's trying to use a structure to gain power. Just like it's conning for power that you want to description. Yeah. Yeah.

Now that, that has to be, here's the thing. When I was dumber than I am now, and I already admit that I'm an idiot because I don't even know what I, what I, what I'm doing here, what's going on. Yeah. That when I was dumber than I am, I still liked Don Rickles, for example, because there was even though it was mean underneath that there was a psychic sense that it wasn't. Yeah. No.

No. Yeah. It's just. Some comedians, some comedians, you don't get that sense at all. You get a power struggle thing where just like what you just said, trying to have control or power over someone rather than playing with them. Don Rickles, he would use the mean thing as the joke because he's a fucking great guy. And so he would be doing a satire because he felt totally comfortable doing that knowing

that he was a good person. Yes. And that's why it worked. You can't get a fucking actual hateful Don Rickles. No. It would be impossible. He would just seem like a, like someone with like a really sad person and it would be fucked up.

But it's like, but you know, the gag is they're not going to like let on about the love thing. Like what the fuck are you talking about? You know, you're almost like, you're revealing like one of the big, big tricks. You're never supposed to say that. But like the, the, you know, anytime I've been around a comic who just kind of like just starts roasting me, I, you know, the feeling of that versus someone who's trying to hurt you. You know what I mean?

When you're around a comic or just whatever decides like he's going to start teeing off on you for fun and, but they love you. And even though what they're saying is like really an evisceration of every single attempt you've ever made in your life to try to be cool or something, you know, the best. The best. And you know, that's why that was the idea of the original roasts is it was like, it was such an honor to be sitting there with like all these great comics, just, just fucking incinerate, just like crushing you in every way.

You know, like it felt, I think it, it must have been like a beautiful thing to be sitting in their original ones. But you know, yeah, I'm so happy to talk to you, Martin. This book, thank you for sending me the book, by the way. I mean, it's not just, and I didn't finish it yet, but I, it's, I can, it's brilliant. You're brilliant. Well, thanks, man. The main fun is you could see the picture.

So I lucked out and had my favorite illustrators illustrate all of my books. Yeah. Tony Millionaire and like we got interesting and Celeste Marino and excuse me. Yeah. But it's such great illustrations that go really well with your writing and it's, it's a beautiful thing that you've created. Well thanks, man. It's really good talking with you too.

We're, we've about run out of time, I think. Yeah. We're out of time, but I'm not, I know that you want to hear, here's how much of an idiot I am. Here's how much of an idiot I am. I'm not even, when I say Martin talking to you is like, all right, this seals the deal. I'm going to go back to LA. I mean it.

How about that? That's how much of an idiot you're talking to. Even when we were in LA, I know we didn't see each other that much, but seriously, but I got to be, I got to be in the Olsen proximity. I mean, this Zoom shit isn't going to work. We got to, we got to like be in hang out in person soon. Well I got to hear about Aaron and the baby and your whole new life out there now anyways. So let's talk later and thanks for having me on the show.

I really appreciate it. Where can people find you and find the book and everything? Sorry to cut you off. I think it just would be with, with martin dash Olsen.com. Things on that. It's O-L-S-O-N. Great. Martin, I love you.

God is real. I love you too. When I come back to LA, we will go to church together. I mean it. I'll see you, pal. See you. Bye, Martin. Have a great day.

Thanks for your time. Thank you. Thanks. That was Martin Olsen, everybody. All the links you need to find Martin are going to be at dugitrustle.com. Please order the conquest of heaven encyclopedia of hell too and much thanks to our sponsors and of course, thank you for listening and letting me have this as my job. I love you and I'll see you next week with a conversation with Jack Cornfield.

Of course, if you want to catch it early, you can subscribe to my Patreon over at patreon.com where you'll get commercial free episodes of this podcast as well as early access to some of the interviews. Okay. I love you. Bye. We are family. A good time starts with a great wardrobe.

Next stop, J.C. Penny. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style, dresses, suiting and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford and J. Ferrar. Oh, and thereabouts for kids, super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp.com.

All dressed up everywhere to go, J.C. Penny. With one of the best savings rates in America, banking with Capital One is the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Even easier than choosing slash to be in your band. Next up for lead guitar. You're in. Cool.

Yep. Even easier than that. And with no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts, is it even a decision? That's banking reimagined. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com slash bank for details. Capital One and A member FDIC.