Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 474: Sam Morril

Episode Date: November 13, 2021

Sam Morril, brilliant comedian, joins the DTFH! Sam's been trailblazing a bunch of ways to get his specials to you without going through the normal channels. Check out his standup in Up on the Roof, or his documentary Full Capacity. Both currently free on youtube! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Liquid IV - Use code DUNCAN at checkout for 25% Off your first order! Disco Skincare - Use code DUNCAN at checkout for 30% Off your first order! Coinbase - Sign up at coinbase.com/duncan and receive $10 of Bitcoin for FREE!

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This is the Ducket Trussell Family Hour podcast. And today, I present to you a conversation with the brilliant comedian, Sam Morel. You already know who he is. He is a super funny comic who has really been trailblazing a way of getting comedy out into the world that doesn't necessarily involve going through all the many weird hoops you traditionally might have to go through if you

want to have a comedy special. I would love for you to check out his special. He's got a lot of stuff out there to choose from. If you want to see his stand-up, you must watch Up on the Roof. This is something that he self-produced, and it is an amazing example of how you could do a comedy special with very little equipment and all the stuff that a lot of comics think goes along

with making a comedy special. Most recently, he has produced an incredible documentary called Full Capacity, which is essentially just a lot of conversations with comedians who are getting back on stage after the pandemic. We talk about it, obviously, in this podcast, but something that he managed to do is really capture the kind of gritty reality of comics

hanging out. And as far as I'm aware, I don't know of any comedy documentary that has managed to capture that gleeful weirdness of hanging out with a bunch of comics before or after a show. And also, of course, it's really poignant and beautiful to see all of these comedians sort of re-acclimating to going back on stage again.

Highly recommend it. It's called Full Capacity. You can watch it on YouTube. Here's a quick pitch. If you'd like commercial-free episodes of the DTFH, once you head over to patreon.com forward slash DTFH, you'll get commercial-free episodes. But even better, if you want to,

you can join us for our weekly meditation, Journey in Abortum, or every Friday, our family gatherings. Lately, we've been working on an anthology of erotic cryptid stories, which will soon be out. It's coming along swimmingly. Join your family. You'll get access to our thriving, powerful discord community.

You know it's your one true home. You can find it at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. And now, everybody, you've seen him on Conan. You've seen his comedy specials. If you haven't, you should watch him. If you watch The Joker, you saw this brilliant comedian in the Joker movie with Joaquin Phoenix. Here he is now on the DTFH.

Everybody welcome, Sam Morrell. Sam, welcome to DTFH. Thank you for coming on the podcast while you're on the road. It means the world to me. That's a true gift. Thank you. Thank you for distracting me while I'm on the road. I appreciate it.

My pleasure, man. How did the show go last night at Cobbs? It was good, man. You know, it's weird as I'm used to playing the punchline, which is a smaller room and I think the acoustics are better. So you ever just like up there and you're like, oh, shit, am I bombing? They're like, no, that's just like got high ceiling.

So it was good. Can I tell you how hard I bombed at Cobbs? Here's how hard I fucking bombed at Cobbs when I was going out with Rogan. Here's how hard I bombed. I bombed because Rogan would take me out way before I should have been going on the road only because I had this at the time I was doing this satanic puppet act and it would just horrify

the audience and still like I did this satanic puppet act. Here's how hard about somehow fucking Bill Burr came to see Rogan. Bill Burr sitting in the back of Cobbs, vacuous, massive, huge, high ceiling, fucking, echoey, fucking Cobbs. And I just did this puppet act and it bombed and I I'm skulking to the back of the room and Bill Burr just looks at me and goes, what was that?

It was like a knife in the heart. But yeah, Cobb. That's the worst. That's like it can't get much worse than Bill Burr. Stumbling in to watch something that you're now not proud of. It's like, yeah, also Louie was there. Patrice came back from the grave. Everyone just like, yeah.

All of them kind of shaking their heads like, no. But yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, man. I like those tight, small rooms. Cobbs is big. Yeah, it's real big. Man, I guess we should start off with full capacity. I just got to tell you, man, and my years being around people trying to make comedy documentaries, seeing all the attempts.

There's famous ones that you can watch on HBO or whatever. They never even came close to capturing the reality of comedy. I never have seen one that could do it. And I've often thought to myself, maybe it's impossible to grab the hang. Maybe it's impossible because when there's cameras around comedians get a little less natural or something like that. But you fucking did it.

So the delightful thing about watching your documentary is it's like, oh my God, I get to be there. Like it's it gave me the identical feeling of just hanging out with comics before and after a show. So congrats on that, man. I'm just curious. How did you do that? Why were you able to capture that when other comedy documentaries, at

least as far as I'm concerned, have failed in that regard? I mean, I appreciate you saying that. I think because we were such a small, small thing. I mean, we really some a lot of those nights, it was just literally me and one camera guy. So when you when when there's just like a fly on the wall, people let their guard down. If this were something for like HBO or Netflix, there'd probably

be like 60 crew members there, you know, so people would be like, what the fuck is the comics don't want to like open up? Yeah, that shit. So but when there's just a couple of you and there's one dude over there, they're like, well, at a certain point, he just becomes a guy who's hanging out. So also, I think people are a little more vulnerable. Just, you know, after being locked up a year, not hanging out.

I mean, a lot of those people I saw, I think at one point, Joe List, you know, is a good friend of mine was like, I haven't seen you, I haven't talked to you in six weeks. And the one time we talk is on camera, you know, he's getting pissed off. Yeah, right. And I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, I mean, you forget because we weren't planning on filming

something. I just, you know, I just done a rooftop special with my friend Matt Salicius who directed it up on the roof right now. This is on YouTube. It's currently at one million two hundred and eighty nine thousand six hundred and thirteen views self published comedy special. That's fucking incredible.

But yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Matt, so Matt was kind of like, I think he became kind of obsessed with just, you know, the grunginess of it and just going to rooftops. He was like, this is like kind of beautiful. You know, we talked about, you know, ancient settlers and how

music was so important to them. And now it's kind of like with the, you know, the division in the country. It felt like that. But for comedy, you know, so it was pretty, pretty cool. All right. Well, I mean, this, this is my favorite kind of music is lo-fi music, just grungy, gritty shit where people didn't have nice

equipment, some fucked up four track shitty heroin combination producing this like amazingly authentic, almost spooky form of music, you know, maybe just because it's too authentic or something. And you know, man, I gotta tell you, your comedy special, it really, I think it challenged a lot of us who have been putting off, putting our asses on the line while I'm using the plural me, I felt challenged by it because like, and I imagine a

lot of comedians feel that way because, you know, within the system of getting funding to make a comedy special, getting a corporation to sign off on you. There's this beautiful opportunity to procrastinate. You know, it's a perfect opportunity. If you want to kick the can down the road for going through making a comedy special, but you just fucking did it, man. That special starts off with you climbing up a ladder onto a

roof. It's the most I hate heights, dude. It was weird. You're climbing up. There was one that was like a fire escape that was janky or like this. I fucking hate this. So, uh, no, I mean, I got obsessed with just throwing clips

up on like Instagram or YouTube or whatever. And because, you know, you get that immediate, you know, dopamine rush that you get on stage in terms of instant reaction. And, you know, with these specials, so often you'd be waiting months for a response from some network or streamer. And it got to a point where I was like, I don't give a shit. I don't like, this isn't, you're not why I do this. I do this because I love it.

I really do love it. Yeah. And, uh, so, and just as cheesy as it sounds, I mean, I think that comes through and all the stuff where it's like, I'm here because I have to be. I love it. So, uh, you know, waiting on people whose opinions I don't respect.

I'm like, we're seeking these people's approval and we don't even like them. And I was like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? Why does their opinion mean anything to me? So yeah, it became a thing where I'm like, I'm just going to make shit. The rooftop thing was like out of desperation, which is a terrible place to come from.

But, uh, my agent even, he's a New Yorker and he was like, man, this is like beautiful. You know, I love how it looks. I don't know. Anyone's never made a rooftop special before. And I said, well, I can tell you why. Do you hear the fucking audio? You can't hear laughs.

That's why no one's made it. You work hard on these jokes. You want, you want to hear laughter. And it is a little, I mean, it looks, that's a fight we would have with, you know, Matt and I, the director is like, he'd be like, look, we get the bridge in the background. The sun is setting. I'm like, cool.

The joke is bombing. So I work pretty hard in the jokes. I want to make sure that we get a cut of them working and he'd be like, no, dude, look at the sun. And it would be a huge, huge fight every time. How do you say Matt's last name? What is it? Colute?

What is it? Matthew? Salacuse. Salacuse. Okay. Yeah. So Matthew Salacuse, and he's an auteur. He's like a professional photographer.

Super talented. So like, that's, I think, you know, when you're watching everyone from like, Brianna to know a bomb back, he's amazing photographer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's adding to the grittiness of these, of these, of these shoots, this, I get it.

I could see someone like that being like, no, no, no, forget the jokes. This, this setup is what matters. I gotta tell you, man, moving from up on the roof to I got this, which is a more, your next, I think that's your next special, right? No, I did that before all this. That was, that came out February of 2020.

And then up on the roof came out, I would say in like November of 2020. Oh, yeah. And I got this in February of 2020. And yeah, it was just, that was a much, that looked more like a special, but those, okay. So I, one of the things I was loving about up on the roof was the like non-professional sound.

And I was loving the diffused laughter. Your jokes are fucking funny. They're good. Your jokes are good enough that we don't need the, the like, even if it is an organic laugh track, you, you're good enough comedian that it's like people are laughing watching it and we don't need the extra hypnosis of the surrounding laughter. But moving from that, and I didn't know I was going in reverse

to I got this where the laughter is like professional recorded comedy laughter. I don't know, man. It was weirdly like, I don't know. I like the other way better for some reason. Maybe it's because I'm a comic and I like, yeah, man, I like that. I love that punk rock, gritty. No, this is actually what comedy looks like.

You know, it's not this thing with makeup on it, even though it can be, I love that other side better. We've just seen so many perfectly produced specials at a certain point, like as a comic where we're cynical or just jaded or like, what, what do, yeah, I've seen people kill before. I want to see, I mean, I felt struggling because I felt like I was struggling because of the pandemic. I felt like, you know, I'm not, this is what I'm doing.

This is my life right now. So I was like, at worst, we're going to make a dock on the roof and most will make a special. We turned into a special. Yeah. And to me also, I think there, there's like commentary within the special by like, and I might be putting too much into it, but I think the editing was commentary where every like weird

edit where you're going from, it's dark, but now it's light. You know, where, where it's clearly this is the edits to me where every edit that doesn't fit into the like, what has become just the rote methodology of making a comedy special was an answer to the corporateocracy saying, no, see, look, no, see this works. Now look, this works. I'm breaking all these fucking rules, but it's still funny.

It's still working. So in that, I think there was some kind of like, am I reading into it that there was some kind of commentary in the editing? Oh, not really. No, I mean, we, we wanted, I mean, a lot of it was that I was just rusty as hell because I'm used to doing this every week on the road and every night at a club. And then at a certain point, you're like, well, this is all

I'm doing are these roofs because that's, that's all there were. I mean, I was doing, I was going down to like park shows, but they were like, oh, we got 12 minutes. And I'd be like, I can't, I'm too rusty. I need more than 12 minutes. So I just started doing my own shows and I was like, hey, come see me.

I'll be at this roof. People, some people just give me their roofs and we started filming and I really couldn't go through like, you know, one roof for a set. It looked cooler to cut around, but also it was covering up for how rusty I was because I can't, I wasn't killing for an hour straight anywhere because it would be too weird. Look, it worked.

It doesn't matter. I mean, to me, it's like any time you do a thing like that, you show, look, this works. This idea of the continuous comedy set where you got to capture yourself crushing or you have to at least create the illusion that was in front of the same audience with weird fucking edits to make it seem like the seamless piece of brilliance.

No, you don't have to fucking do that. You can actually honestly just edit together funny jokes. And it's very entertaining. People fucking love it, man. Like if you read the comments, people are like, like weepingly thanking you for putting it up there. I was grateful for that. I mean, it's funny.

It's like they, a lot of people were like comedy got me through the pandemic, but it's like, you know, that shit got me through the pandemic. People willing to come out and see shows and like, it's not like I wasn't watching shit. It's like, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. It got me through the pandemic. Like funny shows got me through the pandemic.

So I was, I was grateful. Yeah, man. And, and yeah, yeah, it's, it was, it's just like what, but also maybe I just didn't replay it enough times, but no commercials like zero monetization on that thing. No, I just want to make the money on the road really. Cause I'm, I just think I'm competing. The way I look at it is I'm competing with Netflix and HBO

and this stuff that are subscription based and there are no commercials on those. So if I'm, if I'm doing a short clip, maybe sometimes I'll throw a commercial up there, but for a long, for like a movie, I don't want there to be breaks. I don't want, um, right. If there are breaks, it takes you out of it a little bit. Yeah.

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I don't like watching movies on TV. I watch movies with my girlfriend sometimes and she'll like be like, oh, I need to do a thing real quick. And it makes me crazy. Like I hate taking breaks, especially when it's a really good movie. Like we're watching a really good movie the other night and she's like, I got to call my sister really quick. All right.

But she, it was like, well, we made plans with her. So I got it, but I'm like, I don't like taking long breaks in between movies and she'll, she'll do that sometimes, but she'll like go to the bathroom and I think she's just peeing, but then she'll like wash her face and I'm like, come on. Yeah, we got a good movie here. Well, yeah, what are you fucking doing? Well, look, man, don't have kids because like my wife and I

and we watch fucking movies. It's like it's a movie for us is like a series. Like when we're sitting down to watch a movie, there's no sense of like, we're going to finish this in a week. Like maybe a couple of sittings. I'm getting better at it though. I mean, um, well, look, man, I want to ask you like, I think that you've experienced what if I had to, if there is a form

of enlightenment right now when it comes to comedy, there's probably lots of comedy enlightenment, but to me, one of them is this weird realization that I think many comics are starting to have, which is these old avenues for getting your art out to the world are no longer necessary, but people are still pursuing them as though it was the way, you know, I mean, when I first came to LA, you know, and you would meet these comics, they'd be like, where's your pager?

You don't have a fucking pager. You're not a professional. You need your pager so that you can go do your commercial additions, you know, and, um, and it feels like there's, that's always a repeating pattern in comedy, but that now it's more along the lines of like, you need to be pitching a show. You need to be pitching a show to some corporation to get funding where you're going to get notes that are going to

impact whatever the thing is you're creating and the impact is not going to always necessarily be artistic, but coming from a corporation that's like, man, we got to fucking make money, you know, so it's going to, it shapes the art a little bit. When did you have the epiphany that you don't have to follow that route anymore if you want to create content as a comic? That's a great question.

You know, uh, I think it happened. I did a special Amy Schumer produced one of my specials for Comedy Central. She was really generous. She did that for one of my friends, Mark Normand as well and Rachel Einstein, two of my friends. I mean, it was incredibly generous. Yeah.

I mean, so, so cool for her to do. And you know, she made sure I got paid well and it was, it was, uh, it was awesome. It was like a big production. Problem is no one saw it. Like that's Comedy Central. You know, so I'd done another special Comedy Central that no one saw and you're like, man, it really hurts the way you

talk about that old model we're married to. Well, you know, it's really hard in this day and age to be like, hey, tune in at 11 p.m. on Friday. People are like, what is this 1992? What the fuck are you talking about? So, uh, so that, that was pretty crushing to put out a special I was proud of and then, uh, and then, you know, no one saw it until I started cutting it up and throwing it online, uh, which

you're not supposed to do, but I was kind of like, I want people to see this. Uh, and yeah, and for the, when I got this, I was kind of like, you know, I've burned two hours of material that no one really saw and it's pretty crushing. So I told my agent, I was like, I'm putting this on my YouTube and she goes, well, we can put on Comedy Central's YouTube. Just do it for this one because they have a big, uh, subscription

base. Yes. So it'll do better and it did really well because it was on their mailing list, you know, but, uh, yeah, for me, my priority was eyeballs because I was, it's pretty crushing to be on the road. I was going to be on the road anyway and you're on the road and you put something out and no one's seen it.

You're like, well, what am I doing this to get to the people who see you, they see my work. And if there's a financial short-term sacrifice, I'm willing to make it cause I think it'll pay off financially in the long run. Right. Cool. Yeah, man.

That it's, I, and it's, it's, I think it's like, uh, so could, it's like an existential threat to a lot of these to the industry weirdly. Like, I think, and I think there's some real resist, like resistance to, to the dawning realization of like, you know, the reason we were going through these avenues before it was because cameras used to cost like 20,000, 30,000 fucking dollars. Like, you know, a computer to edit comedy on would be incredibly

expensive if you were a comedian, you know, and to get the gear, you would have to have a lot of money and not just isn't the case anymore. And every city I go to, there's, there's a, there's a young guy like, I've got a four K camera. I've got a six K camera. I'm, I'll film you. And I'm like, all right, cool.

I just pay a guy in the road every week in a film in case I get topical shit to promote gigs, you know? You do. So you bring, you wait, you, you just find someone in every town you go to you to come film you. Damn. Yeah. I just posted a clip just now about Kyle Rittenhouse.

I just posted a joke. I mean, it's like, I, I, I like to use why I just post that shit. So cause that way you're like, well, if you post a, just a flyer, I'll be in this city. I feel like people, it's like promotional and they scroll past it. But if you put a joke and you put the gigs at the end, people will see it. Yeah.

I want to ask you about this cause this is something I think is really ballsy, you man. It's like this, like, I think a lot of comedians spent a lot of time thinking about burning material, right? So it's like, I don't want to put that shit up yet. It's not a refined joke or whatever. I'm not going to be able to use it when the crowd comes, but you're blasting these killer jokes online that are obviously

like completely topical and I get a topical comedy. Probably isn't going to, it's hard to put that in a special anyway, but don't you kind of feel like you're burning these jokes for the live audience by throwing them online? No, I, I, I mean, I'm not going to, a lot of the ones I post, I'm not going to tell again, you know, so, uh, I, I, I just also, I, I find the comics to get too, you see some comics who are married to like doing the St.

Mac forever and then someone else, like your jokes are inevitably going to be either stolen or there's going to be parallel thinking where someone is a similar joke. Right. And if you're not writing enough, man, does that fucking hurt. So you got to really be dropping jokes all the time because if you fall too in love with the joke, you know, it's, it's sad. You got, you got to be growing.

Uh, it's necrophilia. Topical comedy. Necrophilia it is. Cause you know, you have this thing that was once alive. You loved it. You were, you're, and then it just turns into this withered dead corpse that you're dancing around with on stage, like kissing its leathery lips and wishing, wishing you would come back to life.

Yeah. It's raw. It's topical. And also it's like, what am I going to do? Like a, an Alec Baldwin joke and my special, like it's like, they're just kind of jokes that just are kind of done for me. So, um, I think, yeah, I think it's a good way to burn jokes. And it's like almost my version of like monologue jokes.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I love it, man. I'm telling you, you're, it's like a lot of people are learning from your, from like the, you're innovating a lot of stuff, man.

I want to jump back in time a little bit. Um, your mom, Marilyn Greenberg, she's like a really talented artist. Like a, like her artist is great, man. And I just want to know like, what, what was that like growing up in the, with it, with like an authentic died in the wall, like great artists. Did how, how did that impact you, your, your art form? My mom is very, very creative and very intelligent.

And I think that, uh, you know, it helped and it hurt in some ways. In some ways, I think she was very, uh, I would, I would rebel. I mean, my mom is also a very proper woman. You know, and so she would, I would do things that I think upset her. And I would, I would kind of use my mom as like, I would see where the line was comedically a lot with my mom because she had a really good sense of humor. Like I would watch the Simpsons with my mom growing up, you know,

so, uh, she's, yeah, she's cool. Like she gets that stuff. So I would see where the line was and I would cross it just a little bit with her and that was really how I formed my sense of humor. So, uh, cool. Cause I trusted her sense of humor. So, uh, yeah, she's, she's great and she's an incredible artist and my dad is a lawyer who's just like a workaholic.

So it's like, if you combine what they are, it's like kind of how I am. It's, it's, you know, my dad is always working and like, I mean, he literally was kind of pushing the early retirement by his company. And he was like, I'm starting my own international arbitration firm. And it's like, all right, I know he just cannot wear, he loves work. And he, he really loves it. So, uh, so it's like my dad not being able to shut off is how I am a little bit.

And then my mom just always very creative, very, uh, like, yeah, her work is really cool. It's really, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm lucky in that way. There was, they both kind of, I got a lot from both of them. Yeah. Thank you disco for supporting this episode of the DTFH. Guess what happened today during my meditation group? Some sweetheart commented that my skin looks really good.

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They're only going to help somebody. Well, you're on the paternal side of things. You have artists too. So you're like, I was trying to figure out you're almost like a second or third generation artist, you know, it's like a, which by the way, I was listening to God damn it. What's that famous cellist that God damn it? What's his, he's just like, yes, he's got an audible and he was just,

he's like a third generation artist. And that's like for people like me who aren't, it's a little disappointing when he's like, you want to talk about how to become a great artist, be the third generation artist in a family. You need to be born into a family where art is happening professionally. Well, I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I think my mom was just, I think when you have that type of parent, they're

very encouraging. There was a period. My mom was, I think, horrified that I want to be a standup comic. I think, I mean, look, I think she was like, you're doing this because they give you an open bar. I think that was really what she thought. And I was like 18. So while I was like 18, I think she nailed it, but, but I really was obsessed

with stand-up. So I mean, I think she saw that after a certain amount of time. And then she really, you know, it's tough when you're a parent and really every comic has to fail for so many years to figure it out. And I, and I, you know, she kind of was watching me fail, I think. And I think that's very painful for a parent to see. So, oh my God. Yeah.

And there's, I don't, I've never heard of a mom being like, Oh, thank God, you're going to be a standup comic. It would be, it would be a bad parent. But the truth is, you know, I, it took them years. It was funny, the stuff that impressed my parents was not the stuff that like I'd be like, mom, I'm on Conan and they were like, Oh, okay. And then my dad would be like, you're in the New York times. And I'd be like, who gives a shit?

Come on. But, you know, we, I remember the night that they really were like, Oh shit. I was a young comic was probably 10 years ago or so. And maybe, maybe more. And I was opening for Jim Jeffries in this big theater in Times Square. And they, I think were like very, they were like, wow, this guy, Jim Jeffries wanted Sam to open. Yeah.

And it was when Jim was working out his gun material, that gun bit that became so legendary, you know, that one of the best bits I've ever seen. What is it? This day or not. Do you mind saying it? Like a 40, it's like a 15 minute bit. I mean, the jokes were so fucking, I mean, if it's got like a hundred million views on YouTube, it's, it's insane.

It's a, he really just kind of mocks guns for like 15 minutes, but it became like a huge, a viral, but I mean, he would say how brutal it was. Cause every time there was a mass shooting, his clip would go viral and he's like, what a fucking weird thing. Uh, but Jim Jim always made me laugh. So I mean, I, I met him cause I opened for him at Caroline's and we got along really well. And I, I mean, I looked up to him a lie.

I still do. But I mean, his stuff. So I remember he was, uh, I was with him when he sold out his first week at Caroline's and he was just, he just lit a cigarette in the back room and he goes, well, see this place in the way back down, which I look in love. He looks speaks in joke form. You know, I love it. But, uh, yeah, no.

And then my parents saw me open for him at this theater and, uh, and it was like 2000 people to show. So I think they were like, wow, this guy's like a big, and they also were like, shit, he's really vulgar and smart and funny. And yeah, so it can work. Yeah, it can work. You can kind of do, I think that when they saw other people making it, but then I think also you're like, well, what, what's he, he's just going to have

like fans. They don't, they don't, they didn't, it's a different type of world, you know? Yeah. So, uh, it took, it took some getting used to for them. But I think now they think it's, it's cool. You went on stage when first, when you were 18, which is fucking nuts. And what's the span of time between that and your first Conan appearance? 10 years, eight and a half years, maybe.

I don't know. Eight and a, so eight and a half years after it. So you're, that's nuts, man. Like that is such an accelerated insane. I mean, like, when you got, when you're on stage on Conan for the fucking first time, you're in your twenties, like, what does that feel like, man? Are you terrified? Are you like, are you like, what's, what's going through your head at that age?

When you're about to be on like national TV on one of the great late night shows. I think it's interesting. Like when you start that young, you're too young and dumb to be that scared. Like you're almost, it's almost like the voice, like that internal monologue gets worse as you get older. So I think I was too young and dumb and cocky and not like cocky in a way. I think I'm really good, but cocky in a way. Like who gives a shit?

Right. And then Conan. Yeah. I was pretty nervous on my first appearance. Also the crowd was pretty bad on my first appearance. So that's pretty rough. I thought those jokes were pretty strong. They're great jokes.

They're great fucking jokes. Unless I saw the wrong one, I, I tried to find your first. That's the one when you're going home with a woman and like, she's like, my place is dirty. Oh, come on. Not completely fucking. You know, that one really, that joke has like six punch lines and it didn't do that well.

So I purposely opened up a joke with a shit load of punch lines just so I would get a smooth opening. And I remember it was hard for me to show my disgust. I mean, to hide my disgust with the crowd. I was pretty angry. Cause you know, you wait so long to get on there. And then I thought this crowd and then my friend, you know, said, well, think of it this way.

You're telling pretty offensive jokes for a 5 p.m. crowd in Burbank who's probably not used. They're not used to that. One second. We just like it did one of those weird fucking tech warbles. Okay, go ahead. Continue. I'm sorry.

Yeah. No, it just hurt. I mean, it was like one of those things where you just want. And then the next time I did it, the crowd was on fire. The crowd was incredible. It was that's the best late nights that I've ever done. And that one, I really, uh, I mean, I've had some other good ones, but the second one I did was like, I was angry and I had a chip on my

shoulder because the first crowd was bad. And, um, and I was not, that was like the best panel ever. It was like Bill Hader and Bill Burr with the other two guests. So that was like, that was incredible to be a part of that show. You're just like, Oh my God. I mean, unbelievable, man. What technical question? How far from the audience is the stage on Conan?

They're pretty close, but I just, the first time I think I was saying shocking stuff, I think like looking back, you're like, wow, I mean, I'm making jokes about like a biological father in a short late night set. Like that's kind of hard stuff to do looking back in, um, in a short set, you know, sex jokes that were a little rocking racial jokes porn. I'm like, well, I crammed a lot of offensive topics into, uh, a short, uh, a short set.

So, uh, but then I looked in the next one was pretty offensive too, but Conan was so cool. They'd just kind of let you get away with stuff. Like, you know, the Booker JP Bulk was such a cool guy is such a cool guy. He's not dead. I don't know why it was, but, uh, he's such an open-minded guy and he's really like funny or not funny. It's on TBS.

We're not CBS or NBC or ABC. We don't give a shit. Just make sure it's funny. And, uh, that was kind of how I approached my standup. So, uh, it's tough because now you see these algorithms on the social media things favor clean, which, which hurts comics like me. I don't think like that. Um, it's maybe weird to be like a New Yorker and be like, I'm clean.

Oh yeah. So clean healthy. What a fucking weird word for it too. Isn't it like there's so much weird shit implied in the word clean. It's like, here we are some kind of modern culture and we're still using these weird puritanical terms, like literal purity terms to refer to language. It's so fucked up, man. Like dirty, like what?

Like you're covered in like the, the, the filth of Satan or something. It's why the terms speak volumes for where we're at culturally when it comes to like articulating the human experience. If Jeff, Jeff Dunham saw you, he'd be like, you're one of those dirty puppet acts. That's what he would have said. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You would have been, you're never going to make it with a filthy fucking comic kid. It just, it's just, trust me. It's a people tried and failed. It doesn't work. Yeah, man. I like, go ahead.

Yeah. You know, you're dead on it. It's ridiculous. I mean, like, and look, there's so many clean comics. I'm such a huge fan of, but it's just weird. Like, I just call them funny, you know, they happen to be clean. Like Jim, I've never, I'd never be like, have you seen this clean comedian, Jim Gaffigan?

I'd be like, have you seen this great comedian, Jim Gaffigan? So yeah, in Gaffigan's generally the go to, right? When it comes to the ability to crush without like using quote, like clean jokes, everyone's like, look, there's so many Regan, Ryan Hamilton. There's so many. I mean, it's funny. It's like, you do these corporate gigs and they're like, no cursing. I'm like, you dump oil in the water.

I can't say fuck. It's ridiculous. You know? Exactly, man. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't, most a lot of corporates, if I get a corporate these days, they know what I do.

So they're never like, you can't, they're like, just don't make a pedophile joke or something. I'm like, all right, I'll try. But, uh, you know, yeah, I'm trying to just keep it. Ish, like, okay. Ish, one, I know, like avoid politics. That's the other one. Oh, yeah.

Don't. Yeah. Def, I mean, corporate gigs, holy fuck, man. Do you like how many corporate gigs have you done? Those seem so haunting and like, and, and, and, you know, almost like being like invited into the Bohemian Grove or some shit, you know, like you're, you're, you're getting in this because they're cults, right? I mean, like no, like no offense to any corporations that may be listening,

but it's a cult. Like that's a corporation. It's, it's also a weird place. It's also a weird place to do comedy because, you know, the thing is like I do perform in most comics are on the road all the time. Like I do perform in every type of place. So I kind of know how to walk a line and, and bring people in. Like I'm not going up.

If I talk, when I talk politics, I'm doing it in a pretty baseline way where it's like, I'm getting all you, I'm going to get you all on board with this joke. Like I don't care where you stand on Biden or Trump. It's for all of you, you know? I'm not trying, I'm not trying to alienate people and I don't mean that in like a pandemic. I'm trying to just be funny. I'm like, that's the goal.

It's not to be like, here's my view on this. Like, uh, so you kind of learn that for corporates where it's like, all right, well, this is like going to work. Sometimes you just eat shit because you just eat shit, but I've done them where, where they surprise you where they're like, we're a law firm and they're cool shit and you're like, all right, you know, right? Uh, you, you never know. Well, I mean, yeah, that is, isn't that one of the like big mistakes you

can make as a comedian is putting this like, like weird judgment on an audience and like just deciding, Oh, you know, because these people are in this profession, they're somehow like inhuman or something or that they aren't like, Oh my God. Yeah. Oh no, totally. It's weird. A lot of comics, look, the social media is right in our pockets.

We get fired up, maybe watch the news. So you're like, fuck anyone who believes this. And I'm like, you've worked so hard to build this fan base. And now people that are probably good people who think differently than you, you're just alienating them. And you're just, I think sometimes you forget, like you would never do that on stage, but because you have this thing in your pocket, you're doing that.

And it's, it is like, I don't know. I don't, I don't like pushing people away. I like, I think if I can get through them, I can say it through a joke that makes them laugh. I think that's, I think there's a way to do it. God, isn't it a weird struggle though? Like, you know, cause the problem is, is like, you know, the nightmare of a comedian is just to, to slowly sink into becoming a panderer.

You know what I mean? To like, if you let the quantifying brain take hold and you do start doing, and it's a natural thing where your brain starts doing weird, probably completely incorrect statistical analysis of what your audience might be. And from that, suddenly you realize, oh, fuck, there's like some weirds in my head, a PR department has appeared. That is like giving me recommendations regarding what I should throw

out on my social media because, you know, don't do that. You're going to, you're going to alienate your flat earth people. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, and I play it very safe. I, I say, I hate pandas, man. I fucking, I, you know, pandas. Am I right guys? You guys like pandas?

I don't. That's how I go. That's fucking hilarious. Man. Okay. So, um, all right. I think that's the comedy stuff. All right.

So we're going to move on to some weird questions. Can I ask you some weird questions? Sure. Sure. Man, I was hanging out with some friends in a hotel room a while ago. We were super fucking high. And we started creeping ourselves out saying like, man, what would we do? What would, what would we do if like Mark Zuckerberg just fucking walked in?

You know, like he had a key to the hotel room and suddenly like fucking Mark Zuckerberg standing there because we're talking about power, right? Like there's something terrifying about being around. Powerful people, you know, and so is it just off the top of your head? Who is a powerful person that you would be the most afraid to meet? Kim Jong-un. I don't know. Someone who like, cause he's got power that's dangerous power.

Like this dude fed his fucking uncle or grandpa or whatever to dogs. Like what the hell is he going to do to me? If I make one, like that's a dude I can't make jokes with. Right. I mean, assuming it depends on where, like if he's your prisoner, it'd be a joy. But yeah, if you're like running into like, what the fuck are you going to do though? Okay, imagine this. Your agent reaches out to you like, you're not going to fucking believe this.

Kim Jong-un fucking loves you, man. And really wants you to come do a show in North Korea. Are you going to say no to that? Can I bring Dennis Rodman with me? I feel like he'd be like the peace. He'd be like the voice of reason in between. He'd be like, look, he'd be like, look, Kim is really pissed. I'm going to talk to him.

No, man, Rodman's coming. Uh, no, I think. I don't, yeah, I would be terrified. I don't, I don't, uh, I don't think I would do you hear about these like actresses or whoever they'll be like, yeah, they flew to, you know, to meet some prince and they got like 800 grand just to like meet them. Yeah. And you're like, I'm not doing that shit.

That sounds horrible. I remember doing like a weird, uh, Rachel Feinstein and I and, uh, this community Ray Allen, we all did a, a Northodox, uh, Jews thing in Jersey. And he was just like rich as hell. Like so rich that I think he was like one of the richest. He was like on some Forbes list and he was, he was so rich that he does. He didn't even, uh, like he didn't go to comedy clubs. He was like, all the entertainment just comes to perform for me and my 12 friends.

So it was like us doing comedy and a magician. The magician was weird. We're like, where are we? And I remember, uh, they just fucked with us the whole show. We're like, this is horrible. And, uh, fucked with you like bully. We felt like heck old and stuff. They were just, oh, they weren't like me and they were just kind of like a show

and then heckled you. Yeah. It was crazy. And then, um, yeah, he at the end, I remember he was like, my friend is a great singer and he like made us listen to his friend who by the way was not a good singer. They just live in a bubble. So they don't know what good music sounds like.

So he's just singing like Hebrew songs to us. And we're like, all right, I'm trying not to make eye contact with Rachel because I know if I do, I'm going to start hysterically laughing. It's one of those moments where you're like, what am I, and then I just, of course we do, we start, we're literally just laughing at a guy singing to us. Well, he is a fucking nightmare on the way out. I remember I was like, uh, I was like, man, you got a great, uh, liquor cabinet. And he goes, take whatever you want, anything.

And I'm like, all right. So I just started like grabbing bottles of scotch and wine. And Rachel's like, you're a fucking low class human being. You're not a, you're not, well, well, then I leave and she goes, can I have one? I was like, no, you were making fun of me for taking the liquor. I gave her like a Patron or something. I gave her one of the lower end bottles I took. I got good bottles.

If a fucking oligarch invites you to take booze from their liquor cabinet, you fucking take it, man. Like it's offensive not to, you got to do that. Exactly. I had to. This is so, you know, like it's happening to you. You so you're there with Jim Jeffries. You know, I've, I've, I've been around it and you see this things start happening.

It just all of a sudden you're in the updraft, man, and you're, and you're getting sucked up into the stratosphere. And there's this, like whatever you thought was success. Oh, no, no, no, that pales in comparison. Suddenly there's like this exponential leap forward that happens when, when comedians are like breaking through into whatever the fucking that place is. But do you feel a little unnerved by that process? Or is there a piece of you that finds that to be a little unsettling?

Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's scary. I mean, like we're used to being fuckups, you get used to being a fuckup for so long in your head and that's how you identify. And I'm not just saying that because comics are self deprecating. I think you get used to failing because this takes so much failing to eventually succeed. So yeah, I do think, I do think I'm unnerved.

I think, I think it's weird to get used to things going well. Yeah. You know, I have friends who identify as failures and I'm like, dude, every comic thinks you're funny. Like I, you know, like every, like everyone I know, I'll talk to friends who were like, yeah, but I'm failing. I'm like, you're, you're an artist and, and entertainer and you're, and you're doing great.

And, but it's hard for, I think it's hard for us to, to take that in. Yeah. Yeah, right. It's hard for us to accept it. I think one of the main reasons is like comics identify as the loser. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

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Thank you Coinbase. Dude, I'm sorry. My fucking internet went down. Are you there? Yo, yo, I'm there. I'm been here the whole time, but I'm sorry. I just messaged you on Twitter. I don't know if this is on my end.

No, of course it was on my fucking end. No, I'm up here in the mountains. I'm even fucking Ashville, North Carolina came here with a family to get away from the fucking plague and we and it's just we can't do anymore. Man, I was in LA for 19 years in this tiny fucking town. Everything constantly breaks. It's beautiful to visit and I love it. I grew up here, but Jesus Christ, it's beautiful to visit.

But like this sort of thing. Oh, yeah, mid wonderful conversation. My internet, of course, it's going to go down. I remember right where we were. It definitely am I I'm still recording. Yeah, you're still you're still recording. I'm still recording on this end. I got we didn't lose anything, but yeah, please give me a thumbs up.

Listen, I got we didn't lose anything. But yeah, please continue. Sorry about that. I just yeah. Yeah, I just think it's I think you begin to identify as a loser because that's also funny. Like I you don't want to watch comedians win because it's like when you're watching a sitcom and the guy you like is now in love

and the show becomes unfunny. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, isn't it like it to me when you went out, you're looking at a comedian. There's something I think any real comedian has some potential to like accidentally want to be a messiah. You know what I mean?

Like there's some you know, but you know, it's like, you know, I hang out with a bunch of Buddhists and spiritual people and they talk about this thing that can happen and it's considered almost like getting an STD, which is you become a guru and they're like, don't do that. Don't fucking be a guru. Like I know this this there's this Buddhist teacher who was telling this story about one of the Dalai Lama's associates

who like, I don't know, maybe tried acid or something. And then and then like the end of the story was him like shake his head and being like, if any went and became a fucking guru, you know, it's like it's like a bad you don't want to be that. But the comedian version of that is and you know, it just seems to happen where suddenly you get these comedians that are like have shifted and now they're becoming like, I don't

know, man. Like they there's some sense of like, I think I might save the world. Do you know what I'm talking about? Of course. Yeah. I mean, the self-righteousness is terrible. I mean, I love Bill Hicks a ton, but sometimes I'll hear a

bit and I'm like, ah, this is like really arrogant. It's just it's not it's not for me. But when he's just being funny, it's like the dude is unstoppable. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it goes both ways, right? When you become too political to and it becomes like, I'll watch comics now and I'm just like, what do you do? Like this isn't why this isn't why you got your fan.

This is not what your fans even want to hear from you. I don't know what you're doing. So yeah, it gets it gets dangerous for sure. Yeah, it can get really dangerous. Is the problem. You're surrounded by yes, man. You when you get more and more successful and I'm not talking about someone at my level, I'm talking about like really like

actually successful people really successful. You get surrounded by people who are just like, yes, man. And you think that's what everyone is. And it's like, well, that's not how this is a closed circle that you can do no wrong for you can do wrong outside of this circle. Yeah, man. I mean, there's a it's like that's the. Yeah, that's where this you see these weird warped personalities

start appearing and it's like they can't, you know, Mitzi, she would one of the she's had a lot of cool shit, man. I used to work at the comedy store. That's right. Your friends with Ari. That's why I met Ari. Um, I got to be the talent coordinator there for a while. So I got to hang out with Mitzi and like the kind of last days

of her reign at the comedy store and she would just say the crazy shit, man. But one of the things she said about comics who are succeeding was they all go crazy, honey. They all go crazy because like as part of the process, you just lose you, you're going to lose your shit. Like you, you, you, you can't, you know what I mean? Because I mean, look at your life, man.

Look at your life. Look at your life. You are always on the road. You've got like up until January. You've got like, what is it? Well, I haven't taken a weekend off since April and I'm going to have to start. I'm going to take next weekend and maybe the weekend after.

Wow, two weekends. Wow. But you know what I mean? Like you're like, when you look at this is what's I think one of the paradoxes of being a touring comedian is it's like you are articulating the human experience in a relatable way to groups of people where you're resonating with them and if there's a catharsis or something that happens, but look at your

fucking experience. You're like flying from hotel to hotel. Well, I don't know what you watch there. I don't know if you jerk off the point. I don't know if you're drinking from the wet bar, but you know, these are like possibilities, right? And in the midst, yes, all of these love. Okay, okay.

So somewhere in there like that like ability to be like, oh, yeah, I'm I'm part of the the world societies. We know it. How do you maintain that connection? I bring people on the road who who help my, you know, help me maintain my sanity like selfishly. I want I'm with my friend Gary Vita right now. Yeah, you know, I've known him.

He's my comedy friend for what 15 years. I mean, I've known him. I we met at an open mic where I remember Gary's got great short perfect jokes. He's a dry dude and I remember him on stage at a mic at a place called Maui Taco and he saw this how I met him. He just saw me. I guess, you know, you're at those mics you space out

sometimes and Gary's bombing with what I recognize is good jokes even back then. I was like, these are good jokes and but I was exhausted and Gary, I was a kid. I was like 19 and Gary and Gary was like, oh, this asshole is not paying attention. That's how I met Gary. He's one of my best friends now, but he just had like a

breakdown on stage and was like, look at this. And then I saw him the next night at a show. I produced a guy co-produced it with booked him and he was like, sorry. I called you an asshole and I was like, dude, I get it whatever and now he's one of my best friends and Gary like we'll do city. We'll do stuff.

We have a routine. We bounce bits. We'll talk material. We talk life. He's he's a whiny Jew like I am. So culturally there's that comfort level. Yeah, yeah, he's a he's in a sport. He's in all the things I like and then, you know, we'll watch

movies together. We'll we'll go to a good week. We try to eat well like, you know, an SF. So we're eating some damn good seafood right now. And the best great. I love it. We try we try to we he's he's great to be on the road with someone like that can really help you right stay on the road.

Yeah. Okay. That's cool. So you have, you know, the people that you bring with you. I don't know. I mean, there's no point to this line of questioning. I'm just sort of like, you know, no, you ask great questions. This is it's what you'd be be shocked.

How many podcasts you do where people are like, so what else? And you're like, you're asking me. Okay, I don't know. You know what I'm going to prepare material. What are you talking about? No, I honestly, I texted Ari because you guys, what did he tell me to do? He had some crazy.

Let me see. Just texted me with some terrible thing to do. It just says Rufi Sam. You're like, what's on zoom? Ari the Poisoner like if he's on Game of Thrones, he's a fucking Poisoner. Okay. Okay.

Cool. Yeah. First of all, I said, I'm about to interview you. He said interview. That's a weird word for what you're about to do. All right. Thanks, Ari. Then he said, he wants me to fake sports.

I'm not going to do that, but like the fake liking sports. Anyway, look, the, the, the, here's the, this is like to get back into like the archetype of the archetype of the comic, the fool. Per, per, per professional. I just interviewed this Buddhist teacher. He called me a professional neurotic, professional neurotics. You, but yet because of the nature of your job, you end up, if it starts working out, you end up succeeding and that success looks

like you getting to getting into these like circles of people that you should, you have no business being around that you're not supposed to rub shoulders with. You're not supposed to be like hanging out with like world leaders. You're not supposed to like, do you know what I mean? And, and to me, something in that is kind of unnerving in a not great way. You know, like that's, that's. If you see me at a dinner party ever with like Cornell West, just

someone cancel me so I can come back and so I can stay funny. That's what I think I need it. But you see, it's like, this is what I'm like to me. I think there is a, and look, man, I, I, I, I let, I'm lucky. My wife keeps me balanced. Like when the pandemic hit and we were getting quarantine, I was like, it's a meteor, a meteor is going to hit the earth. They're just telling us it's a pandemic.

Like my mind runs away. I didn't realize, you know, it's funny. I didn't realize how neurotic you are until you said it. Cause I think your energy is just kind of what I'm used to. But cause your energy, your energy felt like calming to me. But now that you said neurotic, I'm like, oh shit, I see it now. Yeah, it's there. I mean, it's there.

But like, but like, there's a, to me, the, um, to me, like an insidious thing can happen to any public personality right now, which is that there is a, once you get a following, once you get a following, you are now essentially like a bobber floating in this digital ocean and the like fish are going to come for that fucking thing. And the fish are not going to be just fans anymore. It's going to be state-sponsored fucking groups of people that want to influence the conversation you're having with the public,

meaning that the more success a comedian has, we sometimes we see these comedians get successful and you know, in people like, oh fuck, look, they've gone woke or look, they're doing this political shit. Or, oh my God, you see him do this fucking commercial for whatever. But it's like, yeah, do you know why? Because there was a literal campaign paid for by who the fuck knows to manipulate the comedian to get them to start accidentally emitting these talking points.

You know what I mean? So in that way, don't you think being a comedian these days is especially terrifying? I think that's a great point you make. And it's, I'm going to follow it up with another point. I think Andrew Cuomo deserves another shot. And I'm kidding. He got a fucking hit me.

He got a fucking hit me. What the fuck? Yeah, they got me. Look, hey, oh, no, wait, I miss it. No, me too. Absolutely, man. Andrew Cuomo, come on. We all make mistakes.

Dude, you know, here's the thing. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I totally see what you're saying. I think people, it's important to just trust your gut and have friends who will tell you you're being a fucking idiot. Like you need that. You need a lot of those people. They they shed friends like that because when you get that level

of success, I think you're so busy and you really start hanging out with people that can meet you anywhere. And when you have those friendships, those are one-sided friendships, right? So I really think you have to look out for that stuff. And yeah, I think like when they say he's gone woke. I mean, and look, it is it is weird when comedians out of nowhere become like political or woke or, you know, go the

other way, the anti-woke, you know, either way, like you're picking a side and you're picking a side that isn't funny. You're picking a side that is more political than funny. And that is the enemy of funny, right? So I think it's important to remember like, you know, I really do. I'm a believer that if you're making a point, you should be able to make it in a funny way.

Sure. And and if you're a comedian, so what are you doing by just being like, you know, yeah, you're right. The cold thing is very dangerous and I don't but then again, like, look, you're talking so much, right? Like fans used to be fans and not have this type of engagement. Like your fans know so much about you and that used to

not be a, I mean, it is weird how much talking we're doing now. And it's great. It's also terrifying that people know this much about everybody. So, of course, they feel connection. I've had fans say shit to me when I'm like, you, how did you know that?

And they're like, oh, I heard you. I'm like, all right, but it's weird. Oh, yeah. And that's something that like, you know, think of like people that were like, we know shit about directors now that we didn't like, we know shit about like, you know, whoever's like a big like, you know, James Gunn, whoever, you know, he had that scandal.

We know shit about him. We don't know about like Sidney Lumet or someone, right? We know if you're in the public eye now, there's just so much more coverage. You've done so many more interviews. So people just know who you are more. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. It is, you know what, to go back a few beats, can you like expand a little bit more on the anti-woke thing as well? Cause like, is it anti-woke actually? Okay. One of my friends once said to me, Satanists are Christians because it's like, you know, Satanists are actually, it's a form of Christianity because you're using Christian symbology.

It's like, so, so when you're saying you're, it's like saying because you love Darth Vader, you're not a Star Wars fan. You know what I mean? It's like you're still in that mythos or something. So like, isn't it this, isn't it, isn't this like emergent? Anti-woke with that people? Those are, those are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Those are way over.

I don't know what they're, but you're right. It's all, it's all the same shit. I mean, that's the funny thing is they don't realize they're the same, you know? It's all, it's all the same shit. I mean, I think there's a part of me that wants to be like to the, you know, the Colin Kaepernick and then the flag people, it's like, I want to pull you side to be like, do you

not realize you're all the same? There is a party that's all the same. You're just arguing different sides, but you, you're doing the same shit. You're both like, no, fuck this. This is what you do. This is what you can do. So I do think, um, yeah, I think it becomes like you, you

pick a team kind of and, and, and it's like whether religious or sports, either way, you're kind of a fanatic, right? I mean, you kind of maybe face pain at once. But then, you know, that's like religious gear at another, you know, like you pick your uniform, essentially. Yeah. And the uniforms are being created for us. I mean, this is the part where it's like, you know, you look,

you watch George Carlin and, you know, I think now George Carlin would classify as like probably anti-woke or would have something to say about that. But, you know, a lot of times people when they're watching a comedian, they're forgetting like a comedian is like inside a zeitgeist that's transformed by the time you're probably watching like one of the legends like fucking Carlin. Um, but he's finding the edge.

Like a comedian finds that the edge and, and makes in something about like dancing on the edge or going over the edge or fucking around with whatever that thing is. Is it somehow really funny when a fool is doing it? You know, it's something hilarious about that. Um, but now it feels like almost like we're being told, oh, no, this is the edge. Like, you know what I mean?

Like here's where the edge is. Don't pass that and people are passing it and it's almost like they're being bull baited or something into like running into a false edge. It's like, do you know what I mean? Like that's not the fucking edge. The edge isn't what is being dictated to you by the mainstream media or society as a whole about what you can't say.

That's not the fucking edge. So sorry. This is MSNBC. We have, we have a new edge we're calling in today. Yeah. The new list of things that's not the edge. I want to ask you what do you go ahead? Sorry.

What do I think the edges? I'm sorry. I know, please. I cut you off. I cut you off in this stupid ring. What do you think? Yeah, Mike, that's going to be my question, but what were you about to say?

Well, I think the edge is always changing, right? I mean, the goalpost is always being pulled in and now more than ever. So it's interesting like to see all these people on social media claiming Carlin, the conservatives, the liberals are all can take, you know, kind of just saying like, Carlin's our guy and you want to be like, Carlin fucking hates all of you. Yeah.

This is, this is nothing to do with you. So, so they're missing the point. And I think as far as, you know, the, the line, I think it's being pulled in more and more every day because the far left and the far right are becoming more and more opposite. You know, I mean, both extremes are completely, you have one side that's like, you can't say anything. Nothing's funny.

I'm this, this is how I identify. And the other side is like, you know, something, something satanic cabal baby eating and you're like, what the fuck are both of you talking about? Like, do you not see that you're both hilarious? Like this is fucking, you guys should fucking, this is the sick, this is a new odd couple. It's a guy who's in QAnon and a woman who's trans and that's

the show. No, you know what? It's like, that's like the next like remake of like West Side Story, right fucking there, man. That's it. Turn that shit into a musical, man. You've got a, you've got a hit. But like this, but this is, to me, it's like, you know, within

I love West Side Story, by the way, I love, I love a West Side Story reference. What, how could I not do a West Side Story? Would I have you on the show? But like the look, man, listen, this is the, this is what I'm trying to get at here is like, and I've seen you in other interviews talk about it, but it's like within like all the, all the stuff, you know, all the human rights stuff

that we're, it's true. It's like, yeah, definitely. Like we must, we really should respect human beings with all our hearts. They, they, they deserve it, but somehow when being forced to agree with that, you're being reduced into like an asshole. It's like, you're going to fucking make me sit. Like you, you're going to make me sit.

Don't feed me talking points. Yeah, exactly. So, but, but, so to me, this is the conspiracy theory brain part of me starts thinking, okay, what the fuck in all this time that everyone's getting in fights over this synthetic edge, what the fuck is the actual edge right now? What is the, what's the place behind that veil that do you know what I mean?

I don't, I don't even know. Maybe there isn't an edge. I think, I think for me, it's like, you know, I'll post jokes all the time that I think are like, this will upset people. I've told jokes that I regret telling when I'm like, I don't think that's that funny and it wasn't worth going there. But like, you know, that's where the jokes kind of are created. They're created in a place where there's dead babies and abortions

and Nazis and you're like, well, where is this going to come from? How am I going to filter out the ugliness here and make it really funny for everybody? But that's the excitement when people start to sentence what there's nothing funny about. You're like, stop right there. There's nothing funny about anything.

That's this pen isn't fucking funny. Like there's nothing fun. The joke is the funny part. So a premise is no premise is inherently funny. You know, I just. I'm a big believer in that, you know, jokes are going to fail. No one's going to be like, no one's going to bat a thousand with jokes, especially if you're living in a dangerous area

comedically. And that's the area that excites a lot of comedians. We got good at this telling jokes to strangers and bars. You think those people wanted to hear jokes about fucking, you know, you get their attention by saying something shocking. That's how we get good. Yeah. And then you find a way to make it more mainstream.

So when people say we have a social responsibility, I'm like, shut the fuck up. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. I think it's good to be a good person as well. I think that's when you when you live amongst too many comedians, you lose, you become a little too desensitized. Right. Yeah, right.

So you have to live amongst people that don't only find dead baby jokes funny. Like, you know, I do talk to my mom. Yeah, I do talk to someone who's, you know, got a different sense of humor. You have to you have to you have to become a well rounded human and not just a comedian for me at least. But yeah, there's no line.

I mean, I literally, I did a Travis Scott joke the night after it happened because I was like, people screamed out his name and wanted to hear a joke about it. And I was like, let's see if we could find something. And that excites me. I remember the biggest laugh I ever got, I think was a few nights after the Boston bombing. I told a joke at the comedy cellar and I they could see

me going into it and they're like, what the fuck is he doing? And then I said it crushed me when I heard about it. Because, you know, my first thought was me and my brother, we don't do anything together anymore. And that joke exploded because they were like, where the fuck is this going? And it turned into being a joke about me and my brother and we don't hang out enough.

You know, right? So, uh, so, so I think that tension and fear, the greater the tension, the greater the fear, the greater the release. Yeah, right. Yeah. And yeah. And you know what another piece of what you're saying is people need to be reminded that this is a process.

Like if you're catching a comedian mid joke, mid tour, whatever the fuck you're seeing, like an alchemical, you're seeing like, it's like looking at an ultrasound and being like, oh my God, that baby's fucked up. It's like, well, it's like, it's not quite a baby yet. You know, it's, it, it, it. Dude, think, think about this too. Have you been watching the Kyle Rittenhouse trial?

There was, there was a CNN article yesterday. The judge makes an offensive Asian food joke. I'm like, this is a fucking trial for murder. Yeah. And we're talking about jokes. Yeah, man. Yeah. How badly do you need quick CNN?

Like, I know you're struggling. I know without Trump, it's fucking hard to get people to watch. Yeah. You can't just like, we're just talking about jokes. But you know what? Here's the thing with the fucking Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Court TV in general is when you realize, oh my God, we really aren't in a dystopia where this has become a sport.

I'm watching NFL for fucking murder. They might as well have a scoreboard on the fucking screen like having like a score between, you might as well start doing fucking. I'm, they already, people already are betting on it. And then when fucking CNN or any, you know, media conglomerate throws up whatever their fucking angle is on the thing, here's the reality. For example, take Travis Scott. Here's the reality.

That's his name, right? Travis Scott, the, the, okay, Travis, the rapper. So Travis Scott, this fucking disaster happens and all the people, people with any, any kind of sensibility at all are like, what's the difference between this and human sacrifice? Human sacrifice, I get it. There's some intentionality behind it. You convert a human beings, whatever, life energy into some

kind of magical potency in the movies or whatever, right? But here, what we have is a group eight. Now I think it's up to nine, eight or nine people have been crushed to death. Nine, nine. So CNN, you know, the angle from the, uh, left stream is like these lunatics are calling this a human sacrifice ritual. Come on. It's not human sacrifice.

And then what do they do? They cut to a fucking cell phone commercial where they convert the dead people from the Travis Scott fucking concert into money via advertising. You know what I mean? They're literally like alchemizing the death into dough and they're like, it's not human sacrifice. How could you call it that? But if those people fucking didn't die, you wouldn't have that juicy content

to turn into fucking money. So yeah, it did Travis. Oh dude, it's, it's a great point. I think about it all the time. I remember Ray Rice, a football player who punched the woman in the elevator years ago. I remember watching a story on YouTube and before, before they showed it, there were YouTube ads and I'm like, so you're, you're making money off him

beating a woman. This is completely madness. This is what we're living in. That's it. So, uh, you're right. I mean, it is, they love it. The media loves it. They love, I mean, as much as they hated Trump, they missed Trump because it was,

it was ratings guarantee. Yeah, man. It's like a soul. It's like, uh, like imagine if there was a fucking solar panel for like suffering like instead of converting sun energy, we could convert like these suffering of humanity into, into money. That's their job. And that's what they do.

It's just weird when that's your job, but instead of like admitting, you know, you know, this is what we're going to do. You take catastrophe, monitor. We monetize can start catastrophe professionally. They, they, in the midst of being the people on the planet who do that, they like have a fucking ethical opinion about anything. Like, you know, if world peace suddenly happens, Jesus comes back, the aliens come, the fucking whatever happened watching.

Yeah, you, you all are broke motherfuckers. You're out of a job. Well, you nailed it. They all think they're Edward R. Murrow, but dude, you're Jake Paul. You're not Edward R. Murrow. You're, you're there for ratings.

You're not a muck. The days of muck raking are, are gone. You're, this is not who you are. So, uh, you're, you nailed it. If things start going well, they've got no content. Nothing. Shit. We might not have any.

I might be out of shit too. I might have to start doing self reflection on stage. Fuck that. I'm done with that. Oh, you got it. You got it. I mean, that's it. That's it.

You should just do that. I mean, you got to do that one night, man. You got to come out completely just self reflect. You got to do it. It would be so fucking funny. I take notes in therapy. I, I do take notes in therapy and he said, I'm one of the only people who does, who does that.

That's not, that's great. Do you, how often, what do you do zoom therapy or something while you're on the road so much? Crucially, right? Well, I do it, I do it because first off, my girlfriend's like, you need it. And I was like, yeah, I've been doing it for like many years. I mean, I love it.

I took, I take breaks here and then, but like, you know, therapy is good, but he'll say all this really fascinating stuff and I would just forget it. So now I'm like, I got to say, I'm sorry. I got to take notes while you talk because I want to revisit this when I'm not, when it's not just off the cuff here, I want to like actually read what you're saying and be like, huh?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's something really annoying about the fact therapy works. Like all these people beat you over the fucking head with it and then you go and you're like, Oh my God, I, I feel like feeling better in my own life. It's so annoying.

I don't know why it's so important, dude. It's, I mean, it's funny. It's like, look, I'm not saying everyone needs it, but sometimes I'll talk to someone though. Like, I don't need it. I'm like, you definitely need it. Like it's usually the people that are the most like anti therapy.

They're like, dude, give it, do one session. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's like, it's, it's, it's a, it's a insane. I mean, it's just a fucking luxury to do it, you know? And also I hate it though. Don't you fucking hate like, don't you hate the few minutes before you go do therapy?

Like, I hate it. I want to cancel it every time. It's like going to the gym. Yeah. It's like, you don't want to do it. It's going to be good for you, but it hurts. Like, I don't, yeah, I don't enjoy it. It's painful sometimes.

And it's also painful to, you know, say stuff about maybe my family who were like, although I love them. It's like, you know, you have to just say things out loud to be like, that's why I do this, you know? And, uh, yeah. And it's nothing, it's no judgment on them really, but in the moment, it's painful because you think any criticism of them is like a condemnation, which it's not.

Well, that's why you need therapy right there. Cause they fucking managed. They taught you that. You know what I mean? Like, there's this author, Annie Lamott, and she says, she was talking about people who write shitty things about their parents. And she said, if you do want your kids to write shitty

things about you, you should have been a better fucking parent. You know, like you got to like, it's like, come on, like that whole, like it's weird, like it creeps into a family where like this pro, I mean, I get it. I've heard people, the best version of talking shit about parents that I've heard is people saying they did their best. And I think that's pretty much true, man.

Being a parent now, you know what I mean? It's, it's, there's no fucking way. You, you, it's like, you're malarial. You're, you're oozing, you're oozing with the, with all the fucking weird shit. You're, you're freaked out parents. Spray it all over you. They didn't mean to.

My, my dad didn't mean to have fucking PTSD. You know what I mean? He said he went to Vietnam. He killed people. He came back completely fucking freaked out. He did his best. You know what I mean? But you know the, there's no way you can't leak a little of

that on. He wasn't there during the war, but he did go there. That's why I wish I had your brain. So fucking funny. You know, it's dude, I'm with you. I got my parents are such good. They're such good. They're such good people.

I know no one bats as it's like jokes. No one bats a thousand. Like they, they were really good. Yeah. And there's little things occasionally. Like, you know, I'm a blended family. You know, I have a biological dad. I don't talk to you.

There's a little weird shit that, that you don't realize plays a role in decision making and your life. And you just want to be in control of it and avoid, uh, you know, damaging patterns. So really that's, that's a big part of it for me. Yeah. That's why, yeah, fit to me therapy is just, that's completely it because I, you're either going to overreact.

Like it's like not like we're moving back to California. And because my parents move me around like 14, 15 times, I've got all this bullshit about moving. So I get all sentimental about moving our kids again. And any other parent who hasn't gone through that is like, he's not even three yet. Like, you know what I mean? Like what it, it's not a big deal, but you know, because of

all the shit that I went through, that's one of the things that, you know, you end up like pouring all that shit onto your kids and our parents did that to us. And it's just a, a ball of like garbage rolling through time from when we like became like when we stopped being monkeys. You know what I mean? That's what we, that's what we are. It's like we're pouring that vileness and beauty into the

world. See, thank you. Watch my, uh, new special, vileness and beauty. I don't tell any jokes. That's pretty good. I, yeah, I mean, look, that's what I love about New York is like, it's, it's vile and it's beautiful. I'm in SF right now.

It's vile and it's beautiful. Like this is a city where you're like, man, I love cities that are disgusting, but also like, man, the architecture and just the city streets in San Francisco, it's cool to be in a good city. Cause you know, you go to so many cities on tour that look exactly the same. And then you're in a city like this and you're like, there's

an ugliness to this city. That is, I think really beautiful. Fuck. Well, this is okay. So in, in, in Buddhism, there's this weird concept which is Samsara and Nirvana are intertwined or confusion and enlightenment or coerising. They're mixed and you can't.

Unmix them. They're, they're wrapped up in each other. And so the, you know, maybe one of the things that's so particularly unsettling about people, the positivity cult is that they have seemingly disregarded the literally half of the equation, which is, you know, wherever there's beauty and the ugliness is helping your equation because it's making things look nicer.

So you're forgetting about like, you're forgetting about an essential ingredient here, you know? Yeah, exactly. And then, and then you're scolding me for like honestly articulating the, the foulness, you know, it's like, oh, you're so fucking negative. What, you don't see the beauty here? It's like, that's the, if not for one or the other, it wouldn't

happen, but you know, I think maybe that's part of being a comic, a good comic is finding the balance in those two things. You know, it's like being able to fully acknowledge the, the, the sort of, you know, it sucks when a comedian falls too much on the foulness side, not like they're dirty or anything, but it's like when you're seeing a comedian who's legitimately sadistic, you know, that was another thing Mitzi said. I hate it.

I hate it. Hate it. And, and, and, and, you know, it sounds cliche, but coming from her, I think it carries more weight and she said the thing behind it all is love. That's what's behind the jokes. That's what should be behind it all is love. You got that coming through as cheesy as fucking sanctimony or

saccharine, as that may sound. Then you can say anything is foul and fucked up and horrible as it may be because there's this like gleeful joy behind it, you know, but you come on stage. You're scared. You don't really want to be a comic, whatever you say anything at all and all people hear is fear and like anger and shit. You know what I'm, you know what I mean?

I 100% know you mean. I mean, that's like, I think sometimes people think I'll like, you know, mean spirited comedy because I, because I'll do a dark subject or something, but I'm like, I'm not trying to hurt anybody with these jokes. That's the thing is like, I don't like mean spirited shit and I'm actually people, I think, just make this assumption about me that I'm a cynic when I'm actually pretty, uh, I'm pretty

positive. I mean, I wouldn't have made a pan, two pandemic, one doc and one special if I was like, fuck the world. I was trying to find, find the good in the world at the time. You know, so I very much relate to, you know, uh, putting good energy out there. And sometimes my, my sense of humor is a little fucked up, but it's never, it's never, the intent is never to hurt.

Yeah. No, man, we feel the love in all your, in all your art. It's such wonderful stuff. You're putting out there. You inspire me, man. Thank you so much for your time today, Sam. It was so great to talk to you, Duncan. This is great, man.

Great chatting with you. You want to plug your shows. I know you're in, this is going to go up today. So anybody in San Francisco who's listening to this sold out, man, they're all sold out. We got a coming up. I got, I got Charlotte, Charlotte, Miami and Dallas, Richmond, all coming up.

Samarill.com slash shows. I got a basketball podcast called pod. Don't lie with Stavros. Hulkiest. We all we do is talk basketball. I'm going to record one now and a drinking podcast with Mark Normand where we just, it's called, we might be drunk and we're drunk pretty much every week.

So that sounds fine. All right, man. Hey, if you're ever in New York, if you're ever in New York, hit me up. You got to come on. Oh, you know, the next time I'm there, I definitely will take you up on that man. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for your time, Sam. Thank you, dude. Hare Krishna. Thank you. That was Samarill. Everybody. You can go to samarill.com for all his dates and all of his stuff.

If you can't remember that somehow, you'll find the links at dunkatrustle.com. Much thanks to our glorious sponsors and much thanks to you for listening. We'll be back next week. I love you. Hare Krishna. When life gets crazy and when doesn't it?

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