Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 501: Damien Echols and Lorri Davis

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

Damien Echols and Lorri Davis, two of the coolest people you'll ever meet, re-join the DTFH! Pre-Order Damien & Lorri's new book, Ritual: An Essential Grimoire! Seriously, pre-order it, it's enormously helpful to authors when you do! You can also check out Damien & Lorri's first book: High Magick: A Guide to the Spiritual Practices That Saved My Life on Death Row, wherever you get your books. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Feals - Visit feals.com/duncan and get 50% off and FREE shipping on your first order. ZipRecruiter - Try for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/Duncan Bespoke Post - Use code DUNCAN at checkout for 20% off your first order!

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and this is the Ducatrussell Family Hour podcast. I'm reporting into you from Los Angeles. I flew here from Portland. By the way, thank you to all of you who came out to the Portland shows. We sold out the weekend and it was a blast. Now we're here in Los Angeles looking for a home for the Trussell family.

And the hardest part about trying to find a house in Los Angeles is too many options. It's what they call a buyer's market right now. Everyone just wants to sell their house. People are giving like really deep discounts on incredible homes. It's amazing. The market is just incredible.

Like people, I went into one house and they gave me a gift bag that had inside of it a ritual knife, three Asmodeus molars, like the actual molars of one of the princes of hell and some incredible lotion. And it's like that everywhere you go. Some people give you flowers at one place.

I left the place. They didn't give me anything. And I kind of liked the house, but I was thinking like, you know what, I'm probably not gonna buy this house because where's my gift bag? Where's the pet? Like some places are giving like really nice,

pure bred animals. I've gotten an incredible lakenzie looper, which is a beautiful part dog, part cat, part lizard creature that sings to you when you can't sleep and the sonic waves make you fall asleep. They're amazing, but their lifespan is only eight days, which kind of sucks. Regardless, this one place we went to, no gift.

At least that's what I thought. When I got back to my hotel room, three of the most beautiful women were there waiting for me. They, I don't know how they got in the hotel room. I don't care. And we made love for hours. And then at the end of it, they told me, hey, we were sent here by Roger Schenck,

who was the seller of the house. I'm still not gonna buy the house, but I got to say thank you, Mr. Schenck, for those beautiful women. It was a wonderful, wonderful evening. And holy shit, the MDMA was incredible. I forgot to mention, the little bit of ecstasy that went along

with the incredible women. So yeah, I'm working on it. I've still got a few gift bags to go through. That's another thing that's tough, because there's so many gift bags and you have to kind of, and if you get them mixed up, you can't remember which gift bag was attached to which house. So there's a lot of extra work in finding a house,

but I am enjoying the process. And I'm sure that we'll be able to choose from the 30 houses that right now we are considering. What a great podcast we have for you today. Damien Eccles and Laurie Davis are two of the coolest people I've ever met in my life. They are so interesting, so smart, a perfect match for each other and lucky for us.

They have written a new book together called Ritual, An Essential Grimoire. This releases on April 26th, but you can pre-order it. All the links you need to find it will be at DunkinTrustles.com. And if you love these two, do the pre-order, because it really helps. I don't remember how, but I have friends who are writers

and they explain to me that there's something about the pre-order that I think it pushes the books of the charts early or something like that. So it would mean the world to me if you're interested in what they have to say, which if you're into magic or spirituality, I know you will be. Like these conversations I have with Damien and Laurie are the kind that I unwrap for months,

if not years after having them. So I hope that you will also pre-order the book. It's a great podcast. We're gonna jump right into it, but first this. Friends, I love CBD and I will be taking it for the rest of my life and feels as the best CBD that I have ever squirted onto my tongue. It helps me sleep.

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in Austin, Texas at the Vulcan Gas Company. I hope that you will come and see me. And if you are thinking about buying tickets, just go ahead and buy them. I don't wanna brag. Is this bragging? It makes me feel really good. All the shows I've been selling out.

It's a good idea just to get the tickets in advance. And if you didn't get tickets, don't be afraid to tweet about it because a lot of times you can find tickets that way. Also, I'm gonna be in Phoenix, May 12th through the 14th, Zany's in Rosemont, June 23rd through the 25th, and the comedy works Denver and July. Also, this just happened.

I'm gonna be doing a live DTFH in Los Angeles at the end of the month. You can find links at DuncanTrussell.com. Okay, sweet, sweet darlings. What a glorious episode we have for you today. Damien Eccles and Laurie Davis are with us. As I mentioned before, they've written an incredible book

called Ritual and Essential Grimoire. You can pre-order that. And also, if you're into magic, you definitely have to check out High Magic, which is Damien and Laurie's first book. I hope you will check that out too. Damien Eccles, he was the fish captain in the Midnight Gospel.

Laurie Davis is his wonderful partner. They're here with us today. Let's jump into it. Everybody, welcome Laurie Davis and Damien Eccles to the DTFH. ["Welcome To You"] Welcome, welcome on you That you are with us

Shake hands, glory to you blue Welcome to you Welcome, welcome, welcome to you It's been Duncan Trussell. Damien, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne. Damien and Laurie, welcome to the DTFH. It's so nice to see you. How's it going?

Thank you for having us. It's going really great and we're happy to see you again. Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, things were a little different the last time we met, huh? Yeah, yeah, a different world. A different world. We've moved through some kind of portal.

Do you all have any theories on what we just went through? Is there any kind of esoteric explanation for this bullshit? Yeah, but it's kind of long winded and sounds like crazy conspiracy business. I think it all has to do with like moving into the new Eon. You know, like in the Bible, like in the book of revelations, most people think it's about the end of the world. And there's actually nothing in there about the end of the world.

Like the word they translated into world is Eon, A-E-O-N. OK. Meaning that like, are you familiar with the precession of the equinoxes? Mildly familiar with that. And the only reason because I like the way it sounds, precession of the equinoxes. It's such a pretty sounding term. But can you describe that to us? OK, so the way the sun appears to travel through the signs of the horoscope

during the course of the year, it takes about a month for it to move through each sign of the each constellation of the zodiac. Well, if you look at it on a long enough time scale, and this is the reason for places like, say, Stonehenge, you know, places that were significant to the spring equinox. Yes. If you stand in one of these places on the spring equinox facing east, you will see the sun rise in the same constellation of the zodiac

for 2,500 years give or take. And every 2,500 years or so, it makes a transition into the next house, into the next sign of the zodiac. So we are right now on the cusp of going into Aquarius. So every time this happens, there are usually major upheavals because it changes everything about humanity. Right. For example, one of the major things in how this all ties into like magic

is that it has to do with the way mankind understands and interacts with divinity. So just really short, just for example, like in ancient Sumer, in Sumerian times, in ancient Egyptian times, if you would have stood facing east at the time of the spring equinox, you would have seen the sunrise in the sign of Taurus for about 2,500 years. OK. At this time in human history, polytheism was like the dominant form of thought and religious expression.

Right. Keep ahead 2,500 years. And if you're facing east at the time of the spring equinox, you would have seen the sun rising in the sign of Aries for about 2,500 years or so. This is when Judaism was becoming the dominant way of understanding divinity, like monotheism. Yes. So we go from polytheism in the sign of Taurus to monotheism in the sign of Aries.

The next one that comes around 2,500 years or so, give or take, would be the sign of Pisces. This is when Christianity is born. This is why I like to see all this fish symbolism in the Bible. Jesus feeds the multitudes with two fish. Yeah, OK. That's cool. All that kind of stuff. So we go from polytheism to monotheism to God as man.

Well, now moving into Aquarius, we're going to shift again into man as God. Nice. Like it. There you go. It's good, but it will be a rough transition. Can we speed? Is there a way to speed it up? How do we speed this up?

Can we fast forward? This shit's scary. I don't think so. OK. So this is exciting news for everybody. You and Laurie have written a book together. And I got to ask, what's that like writing a book in a relationship? Like, how do you because writing sucks?

I don't know if you maybe both, you know, you both clearly are discipline people. I'm not. And I like writing. It's so brutal. How do you how did you execute writing a book together? This is actually our second one together. And we kind of did this one the same way we did the first. The first one I apologize. I am so sorry that I didn't know that because I love the book that y'all left for me. And somehow I missed that.

And I really want to apologize. I did not know that you collaborated on that book. Laurie, and that sucks. I'm really sorry for about that. So you've done this before. Then how do you write both of these? How did you do this? What's your process?

We kind of do them separately. Like I write my part, she writes her part, and then we mix them together and make the pieces fit. That's the way it tends to work for us. Well, Damian just sort of sends all these like crazy texts. Like he just texts the whole book. You know, you've got a bunch of them. And so I love your text.

They're the best. So he'll send me these big chunks of texts. Not like I'm not saying texts. I'm saying literal phone texts. Yeah. And then I've got to like take them and, you know, cut and paste them and put them. So, I mean, I'm happy to get whatever he's going to send me. But it is like anyone who edits Damian's books, it's like all day long.

They're just going to be getting these like little things and they got to figure out how to fit them in. So but the stuff I get is great. So I'm happy about it. Cool. I I will. You're both super. That book is so good.

I always it's one of my return to books, you know, like when I'm it's a balancing book, too, because you I love like your ability to translate. It's a translation. It's a book translating some really confusing topics into something very simple that people like me can understand. Because it's like if you try to pick up the original stuff, it's so intentionally confusing. You can tell it's encoded.

You don't know what you're missing or what you're misreading. So tell me about the new book. Well, this is what we tried to do is exactly what you just touched on. Like so much of magic is like written in like this this really archaic language, you know, in ways that we don't talk anymore. And a lot of the real stuff, you know, going back like even the Golden Dawn material, it wasn't meant to just stand alone. You know, usually they would have tutors that would be explaining stuff to them.

And and these books are like Israel, regardless, is basically his notes while he's going through this process and he would have had someone else helping. Most of the time we don't have that anymore. So kind of what I've always tried to do with magic, like what I always say is there is nothing you can say about magic that's that's new. Like all of this material is already out there in some form or another. You just have to know where to dig and it's usually going to take a lot of time and energy and effort and someone pointing you in the right direction.

So it's not always think of it as like it's not like we're adding anything new to magic. It's more that we're taking it and making it more accessible to people now, simplifying it, but not watering it down. That's what we try to do. Yeah. And also this book is interesting in that it came out of a really dark time for us. Um, so, you know, Damien, after he got out of prison, it was pretty much a free fall into like really complex trauma. Sure. So that sort of just ate away at our relationship, but everything we were doing

for a few years. And in 2016, we pretty much hit rock bottom. And so in order to start healing or coming up from that, we literally just separated, we were living in a, you know, a little apartment in Harlem. I spent my time in one end of it and he spent his time on the other end. We didn't really talk, but we just started writing and I was writing these rituals to get me through that time and he was doing the same thing. So it's really also a very book about healing.

How cool, how beautiful. Thank you for being so honest about that. You know, the, yeah, I get it. How like trauma is just, you can't, if you, if you haven't dealt with this shit, try to have a relationship, try to have anything, try to do it and try to do anything when that is shadowy stuff is floating around in there. I know, I get it. So that's beautiful.

So now I can see that y'all are, uh, have clearly it worked. They say a vampire only goes where they're invited. And if you're not using zip recruiter, then you could potentially be inviting vampires to come work for you. Hiring is scary and an easy thing to procrastinate. And something, if you're like me, you probably don't like thinking about. Which is why zip recruiter is the most powerful technology out there because it makes it easy for you to find and match the right candidates up with your job.

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You can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash Duncan, that's ziprecruiter.com slash D U N C A N zip recruiter. The smartest way to hire and the best way to not hire a vampire. That's I wrote that into the copy. That is not a zip recruiter. Thank you, zip recruiter. Clearly it worked. And I'm I'm I'm interested in what you're saying because I think when

many people think of ritual, they either just don't they don't understand it or maybe they think of like what they've seen at church. But can you talk about ritual as a mechanism of healing relationships? Well, I and I, you know, it's interesting because I just read Ricky Lee Jones's memoir and she talks about in there how she when she was coming out of addiction heroin addiction, she literally like would do ritual to every day. And I so got that because what ritual does when you are trying to heal,

especially even a relationship, it just every if you're doing the same ritualize try to ritualize your entire day because it will help you. I don't know how to say it exactly. Just keep it together. You know, it just helps you your mind from wondering or your memory from going back to all the horrible things that you've just lived through or, you know, have or are living through. It just gives you some kind of a discipline and some of them, you know,

some of the rituals are, you know, built on the rituals that have been around for a long, long time and other ones are things you just come up with to help you get to the next moment. And that was also a huge part of like what saved my sanity while I was in prison, you know, if you can ritualize your day and like build a structure, there is no structure in prison. You're just in a sale 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So you have to create your own world.

If you're going to grow or change or not just deteriorate and generate. So ritual was the way I did that in prison. Like by the time I walked out, I was doing ritual work for up to eight hours a day. So part of it is providing structure for your life, but part of it is also almost like, like Cata in martial arts, where you're learning all of these movements that seem almost like a dance, but they also have practical application for the real world and ritual work is kind of the same way. You're training and I hate this word, but like psychic muscle, because it usually

doesn't mean what people, you know, think it means, but you're training these faculties that most people never exercise. And the more you exercise those faculties during ritual, the more impact you're going to be able to have on your, your life, your consciousness in the outside world. It gives you tools. Yeah. So when you find yourself going back to a repeated pattern that the trauma

brings on or the heartache or whatever it is, um, the minute you're feeling that you have a ritual to bring yourself back into the moment. Got it. I love it. It's, you know, it reminds me of something that I, uh, just read about. It's so weird. I don't know if you ever heard of Botox being used as an anti-depressant. Have you heard of this?

Cause it makes you smile and you could freeze your face in a smile. They were giving Botox to people who were depressed and they couldn't understand why their depression was clearing. And they realized, holy shit, it's cause they can't not smile. The energy moving through their body is a smiling energy and it's lifting them out. So when you talk about these movements, you know, being specifically designed or intuitive, or I don't know where they come from to like move energy through the body, I, I get it.

And I understand, like, I, I don't think people, I don't think I, it's easy to forget how just slouching, like, do you think that there are, that there's a way to not be ritualistic? I mean, is it just, isn't that in other words, we're all kind of doing rituals, right? You wake up in the morning, you go, fuck this. You're like, God damn it. Fuck, fuck.

And then you go in the shower and like, fuck. And then, you know, you know, you're doing a ritual. You just don't know it, right? So, so ritual is really, it's, could you say it's like a consciousness. It's a mindfulness of how you're conducting yourself moment to moment. Yes. So the rituals you're describing are almost like unconscious rituals. Like people don't even realize they're doing them.

When you become conscious of something, you know, it's like Jung said, when you make the unconscious conscious, then you start to, to live a different life. Like you, once you become conscious of what you're doing, you can't just slip back into an unconscious state, doing the same things anymore. Like you're aware that you're doing it from that point on. Right. So doing these also kind of makes you conscious of how you're spending your time, your energy, your days and everything else.

You know, I always think also what you just said about like the Botox and the smiling and all that and like changing your posture. This is the exact reason that they used to design like churches, cathedrals and temples the way they did with like these huge arching ceilings and the stained glass windows up high so that when you walk in the door, you immediately have to look up, you have to change your posture. And whenever you look up and you feel that like slight burst of all, even if it's just for a second, it changes your internal energy.

And this is kind of like how geographical location and architecture can be used to call some of the same downloads that ritual work can bring about. Wow. Okay. Let's talk about the downloads. I, uh, uh, and, and before we get into that, though, I want, okay, in meditation, at least in the style of meditation idea and the way a lot of the literature I've read out at that is you can't really fail at this.

And if you're trying to succeed, you know, abandon all hopes of fruition, don't go into this thing, try and do anything. And that's how you do it. But with, but I think that is different from ritual, correct? Like there are successful rituals and unsuccessful rituals, right? And if there are, how do you know the difference? How do you know when your ritual is worked versus when your ritual is off? I think usually the way, and you, you know, once again, also, though, what

you're talking about, like even Crowley said, do these rituals without a lust for result. And a lot of times even whenever these were given to you, they wouldn't tell you what they were going to do. Like they would say, okay, take this and go do this for the next nine months. And then come back. And when you come back, they would say, okay, how are you different now? Then you were nine months ago.

Oh, what changes have you experienced? Because here's the way you know it works is because if you do them and if you do them correctly and put enough time and energy into it, you don't have to believe anything, you don't have to have faith in anything. You're going to experience changes in your consciousness and in your life. Thank you, B spoke post for supporting the D T F H this spring, revamp your daily routine with bespoke post and their new seasonal lineup. It must have box of awesome collections.

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Get 20% off your first monthly box. When you sign up at boxofawesome.com and enter the code Duncan at checkout. That's boxofawesome.com code Duncan for 20% off your first box box of awesome.com code Duncan. Here's the way you know it works is because if you do them and if you do them correctly and put enough time and energy into it, you don't have to believe anything. You don't have to have faith in anything. You're going to experience changes in your consciousness and in your life.

So if you're doing rituals and nothing is changing, you know, you're doing something wrong or something is slightly off that needs to be tweaked in order to start experiencing those results again. And that's what fires you up and makes you realize, you know, this isn't just mental masturbation. Something is happening here when I do this and it makes you like hungry to know if this is possible, if it can make me feel this way, you know, like in the very beginning, the changes that I would experience were like I was

in prison, but I stopped even thinking about the fact that I was in prison. Like I wasn't in prison. I wasn't thinking about the fact that I was in prison. Like I wasn't focused on that anymore. I started experiencing much less depression, much less anxiety. And it made me start to think, well, if this is possible, if I'm using something that modern science tells me is just, you know, make believe, but I'm experiencing these changes.

What else is possible? And it made me hungry for more. I wanted to know what else was out there. What else could be done? Well, here's another way for a ritual to go south. So I was doing this ritual every morning for about a year and it has to do with it's like a vacuum and it vacuums all the bad stuff out of you. But in that vacuum, I said, remove all excess, any fat that should not be on my body.

So we moved to New Orleans. It's about 110 degrees. I'm running around all of a sudden I've lost like 20 pounds. Oh, shit. Then, which was fine. Then I gained some of a bag. We're traveling this and that. And then I come down with the worst stomach flu I've ever had in my life.

I will not let fat accumulate on my body now. Whatever it takes to get the fat off my body, it's going to do. So I'm going to change the way I word that so that I'm not facing these extreme conditions where I'm losing weight. You know, instead, I'll do a ritual for perfect health. Right. OK. That was kind of the same thing that happened. Like, you know, we were using magic, we were using ceremonial magic ritual work

to get me out of prison when I was on death row. And like I would do this for at least an hour a day for this specific purpose. And basically what you're doing when you're doing ritual work is pulling in as much chi or energy or whatever astral light, whatever term you want to call it, pulling as much energy as you possibly can and then stamping an intent on it and then releasing it to go do what you want it to do. Right. So when I was doing that, the way I would word my intention, I would say, let me be home free from prison, living happily with Lori,

let it come about in a way that brings harm to none and is for the good of all. And in no way let this reverse or bring on me any curse. And that was the intention I would use. Well, within less than a year, I walked off of death row, but it happened exactly. I didn't say, let me get found innocent. I didn't say, let me get a new trial. I didn't say, let them catch the person who actually did this.

I just said, let me be home free from prison. And we ended up with that crazy Alfred plea. So it makes you realize you really need to think about what you're wanting in this situation, how you're wanting it before you start doing it. Yeah, it seems like part of the ego is it wants to come up with the how. Versus the result. And if you get too specific about the how, then you're you're trying to think for a much bigger intelligence that probably doesn't need your help.

You just need to know where you want to be. Not like getting on a plane. You don't need to know how to fly a fucking plane. No, you don't know. You're right. Yeah, like call to the front and tell the pilot what to do. OK, I get that. Now, and thank you.

I love that. We're trying to buy a house in Los Angeles right after I'm done with this. I'm going to do a ritual for sure. Anything. What do I need to do? Contact Lucifer. I'll do everything whoever can get us the house. Lucifer is actually the name of our realtor. The I'm just kidding. That would be so cool.

OK, so I want to. Obviously, we can use ritual for what you what you what you're describing, which is beautiful, but there's so many rituals that are designed. It seems like to make contact with something with beings and some of them are very specific beings, you know, and some of them are so I wonder if you could explain to me about those rituals versus the ones you just described and also. Is there a kind of generalized

name for those beings that in so many grimoires and in so many rituals are being invoked there are I usually just call them, you know, when you're talking about whatever tradition it is, like, you know, you've got names for energy and all these different traditions like Chi or Prana or whatever. But you can kind of make it non-denominational by just calling it energy. I always kind of do the same thing with these these entities by just calling them intelligences, like what whatever you want to call it, whether you want to call them angels or whether you want to call them, you know, whatever it is,

they're they're a kind of disincarnate intelligence and intelligence that exists on every level of reality that we do, except the physical, they exist on the mental, the emotional, the astral, the ethic of the spiritual, all of that. They just aren't in our physical realm. And like in magic, some of these some of these rituals, I mean, when you see like just how perfect some of these things are, how they're designed, you realize there's something at play here more than just, you know, these these rituals are more than just children of the human intellect.

These are like mathematical formula almost in their perfection and in what they do. Well, in magic, they say this is kind of the opposite of of anthropology or sociology or archaeology, where they say like we develop these things gradually over time in magic. They say, no, we were given these outside intelligences and we are losing parts of it as we move forward. Like because it's almost like that game of telephone, you know, where a person whispers it to somebody else and it gets mangled by the time it gets back.

Kind of the same thing has happened with magic. It's still cohesive enough where if you know where to look and where to dig and what rituals to do, you can still get the results out of it. But it's not in a solid, cohesive form the way it once was. But the easiest way to describe it is essentially what we're doing is working our way backwards through the process of creation, like at the top of the chain, at the top of Jacob's ladder, you have the source of creation that everything came from and that everything

will one day return to. And then slightly below that, you've got the fixed stars. Slightly below that, you've got the constellations. Slightly below that, you've got the planets. Below that, the bottom rung on this ladder is the elements. Well, what we're doing when we're doing these rituals is working our way back up this ladder in reverse to reach the source of creation. Kind of the point of it.

Yes, you will come in contact with with other things, with other entities. I mean, that that was part of how I learned about things like the procession of the equinoxes, like I dropped out of school when I was in ninth grade. I don't have a college education. I don't know anything about a lot of stuff in the world. So what these what this particular intelligence started showing me, for example, in this one case of the procession of the equinoxes is it started to show me the sun traveling backwards through the zodiac.

And I did I had no idea what that meant or why it was showing me this. Well, what it is is like in the you know how during the course of the year, the sun moves through the constellations in its normal way. Yeah, well, every two thousand five hundred years, the sun is not going through the constellations in that same direction. It's going through them in reverse, which is why we started with polytheism started with Taurus and then went to Aries and then went to Pisces because it was going backwards. Yeah, that's what you see when you're looking at the constellation.

So they tell you things, they show you things that you have no way of knowing for yourself, that you know, you you're not drawing on this from some internal source. Right. Ultimately, what you're trying to do when you're talking about tracing your way back to the source, like in magic, when they say like, for example, God created the world, the word God first off is like shorthand for this infinite source of consciousness and energy that lies outside the domains of time and space or outside the boundaries of time and space.

Well, if you're outside the boundaries of time and space, if you are infinite, you have no qualities, no characteristics, you cannot change. So if God wanted to experience change, it had to pour itself into the dimensions of time and space. It didn't create the world the way an artist would create a painting. It became the world. It became us. We are God.

We are this infinite source of consciousness incarnate in a bunch of different forms. But we don't experience reality that way. We experience it as if we're distinct individuals like I'm separate from you and Laurie and I are separate from each other. Well, what causes us to experience it that way is this lens that's inside of us, that we call ego, and whenever you do certain of these rituals, what happens is it will dissolve the ego enough, disintegrate the ego enough where you will, you don't have to have faith, you don't have to believe.

You will experience yourself as the consciousness that is looking out through the eyes of every man, woman and child in this world. OK, see, you know what? That's the difference between me and you two, because you two want to experience that, and I just say I do. But any time I get that, get close to that, it's scary as fuck. My lens is like, fuck this.

Anytime I'm on mushrooms and seeing the thing or like having the thing and the real the vision or the thing, you're like, God, that'd be so cool. You're listening to Terence Bikini, like, oh, wouldn't that be cool? And then you're looking at your arms. There's fucking sacred geometry in the form of light particles that you could see through your hands. You recognize what you're seeing as something you've seen in books and the way you know, like, oh, I think that's Sanskrit.

You don't know what the fuck it is. This is me. I'm like, I don't want to be this high. I don't want to know this. I don't want this to happen. I wanted to laugh. I didn't want to see the what you're talking about. So is it always scary like that?

It's scary. It's absolutely scary. Like we think of it as, you know, when we're hearing about stuff like this, when other people are talking about it, we think it's going to be like bliss and, you know, exciting and fun and all this kind of stuff. But it is horrifying. I literally thought that I was dying. Like I experienced the disintegration of myself.

I started walking. We were still living in New York at the time. I would go out every day walking the streets of New York and looking at everything and basically saying goodbye to it and just feeling the sense of gratitude. Like, I'm thankful that I got to live here. I'm thankful I got to experience this life and this beauty, even if it has to come to an end, I'm grateful that I got to see this and be part of this. I literally thought I was dying.

It was not fun, right? He came back at once. I was he was doing all this like intense ritual work in the middle of the night. He would just get up and go in the living room and do it for hours. And one night he came and sometimes he'd come back and report like wake me up and report what he'd seen. And so one night he came back and he's like, he calls me like Munkin.

So he's like Munkin. I'm just telling you, you might just find some fingernails and hair in the morning. That's what it felt like. Wow. Holy shit. Y'all are perfect for each other. Perfect couple. The the this is this is all leading into something that I stumbled upon.

I was pretty freaked out by. I'm sure you're aware of Tesla's vision. You know about Tesla's vision for the alternate for alternating current for the engine that would shape society. Have you ever heard of this? No. So he let me see. I haven't I haven't the messages here.

Oh, wait. Anyway, just the synopsis of the thing is Tesla is taking a walk and he is reciting a poem from Gerda from Faust. He's reciting a poem from Faust and after some something do it, which is a ritual, so to speak, and suddenly has this vision where he sees the design for the thing that we currently are enjoying. It's completely shaped society. Now, what's really fascinating about that, a lot of people aren't aware of that,

is that Faust, Gerdas Faust, is based on an actual on stories. It's sort of like Merlin or whatever. It's like the notorious Merlin of this, I don't know, misanthropic sort of wizard that was existing in Germany at the time. And there are historic reports of this sorcerer. So to me, when I saw that and realized, oh, my fucking God, that's how powerful that sorcerer was that the they're working.

They didn't get to see the results of whatever they were up to. But it echoed through time, through all these different minds, until finally it met Tesla's mind, activated a divine vision that brought on a new technological age for all of us. And so I'm curious if you have any thoughts on how much in other ways our society has been shifted, evolved or transformed by these non embodied entities that people who practice magic or having conversations

with on the regular. All I can say, like a lot of this stuff, all I can tell you is like from from my first hand experience, like I don't know a lot of like all the theories or anything like that. But one of the things that I saw that I went through was, you know, we were talking a second ago about how in magic, they say that these rituals and this information was given to us by these. Yes, external intelligences.

Well, what I saw eventually, because I came I became obsessed with this at one point, like I for probably two years, I could think about nothing else. Like I would have sworn that I was walking with God and that it was showing me all of these visions and, you know, all of the stuff that was completely changing me. And I became obsessed with where does this where does this come from? What are these things? What I saw eventually was that the way we understand time, we tend to think that time has like a beginning and an end like it's a straight line

and we're moving from the past to the future. And that's not what time is. It's not what time looks like. Time is more like a mobius strip, like a figure eight laying on its side. OK. So there is no end, there is no beginning. And this is very, very hard to put into words that make people see it. But what I saw were that these intelligences are us.

We are traveling in this mobius strip and giving this information and these visions back to ourselves in order to speed up our own evolution. Did you ever see that movie with Scarlett Johansson called Lucy? No, I did not. This was one of my favorite movies of all time. I went to see this thing like nine or ten times in the theaters while it was playing. I would go every single day to see Lucy and it even got to the point where like I didn't I did not feel right if I went to see another movie because it felt

like I was cheating on Lucy. But I would go and I would watch this thing because it caused this profound experience for me just by the way they portrayed what she goes through. Like they she's essentially she she's this guinea pig. They stuff drugs inside of her and they're going to use her like a human mule. OK, the synthetic form of this chemical that a mother produces while she's pregnant that causes like the explosive

like really quick, powerful formation of the brain consciousness and all this. They've created a synthetic form of it and put it inside her and they're going to use it as a drug as a drug mule, but it starts to leak in her body. Oh, shit. And she starts to get massive doses of it. And it starts to change her consciousness in the ways that we're describing. Like she starts to experience that she is more than just this individual figure in the body is, you know, part of this this infinite consciousness.

So she starts contacting the scientist and she's saying stuff like I'm colonizing my own brain. I can feel myself reaching one hundred percent of my potential. Like there is no more past, present or future. Everything is just one thing. Yeah. The thing I don't know is what am I supposed to do with this? Why am I experiencing this? What is the point of it?

And the scientist, which is played by Morgan Freeman, tells her, the only thing I can tell you to do with this is the same thing we have always done with any information, with any knowledge, pass it on. So she goes she goes back into the past to the very dawn of like human evolution. And she encounters this like big foot type character that's like, you know, half it's like the missing link between humanity and apes. Yeah. And she passes this information to this creature at the beginning of human

evolution, which is what starts it evolving into us and that we're supposed to eventually evolve into what she is. That's what these intelligences are trying to help us do. They are us trying to help us reach our full potential. Whoa, that is so wild. It's like we don't we're time we're like time blind, right? Like there's something in us. We just haven't gotten to the point yet where we can under where we see time like that.

And so it's creating all the problems. It's creating so many problems. Do you earlier you were talking about this sort of disintegration of these magical systems and the some kind of almost like an entropy happening with these. I think they're a technology. I mean, it's safe to call them a technology. So do you do you think it's possible that a new like a new like, I don't know,

injection of data from the future versions of us, whatever you want to want to call it is coming that there's a possibility. OK, can you talk about that? Where's that coming from? How's it going to get here? Any theories on what it's going to look like? Well, what I saw when I was going through some of this stuff, it was tied very, very much into the Bible.

And it's kind of, you know, I'm talking about magic in the Bible at the same time. A lot of people think that they're diametrically opposed or that they're compatible in any way. A lot of the stories that you read in the Bible are stories of magic. You know, when you're talking about like these prophets like Ezekiel and Enoch and John the Revelator, and they're talking about ascending up through the levels of heaven and standing before the throne of God. You know, when people talk about these things now, we're just like, well,

we don't know what they mean. They're just like these mysteries that they were maps and instructions on how we can do this ourselves, how we can see and experience the same thing that these prophets did. So one of the things that I started to see was tied very much into the prophet Daniel, you know, Daniel and the lion's den and all that, but all these other stories connected to him, like in one of them, it says that the king Nebuchadnezzar rounds up Daniel and all of these other young Jewish boys and sends them to be

trained by what the Bible calls the Chaldeans, which are the ancient Sumerians. They're training them in the ancient Sumerian practice of Astro Theology, which is modern day ceremonial magic in its purest form before it's watered down. So Daniel comes back and Nebuchadnezzar at one point, he starts having these dreams. He can't remember what he's dreaming whenever he wakes up. All he knows is it's scaring the shit out of him. So he calls Daniel and he says, I need you to interpret a dream for me, but not only do you need to interpret it, you need to tell me what I'm dreaming.

Right. And Daniel says, you're dreaming of a statue. This statue has a gold head. It has a silver chest and arms. It has a bronze belly and thighs. It has iron calves and it has feet made of iron and clay. OK. So on one level, what this statue represents is the kind of empires of world history that magic would the current of magic would

be passed through. So the gold head is Babylon. This is what Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar. He says, you are the golden head of this statue. You are the purest holder of this current. From this point on, this current is going to degenerate. So the next step down, the silver chest and arms is the Persian Empire. The Persian Empire, Xerces, the great, all those guys, those were the ones who conquered Babylon.

Well, they also you can tell you can see the current of magic passing through because in these early empires, they all use Sumerian cuneiform to write. So the Persians, the ancient Persians were still using Sumerian cuneiform. This is the closest thing that we have to the source language of magic. OK. So from Persia, it goes to the bronze belly and thighs, which would be ancient Greece. This is where you have the ancient mystery schools, you know, Bacchus and all of those guys from the bronze belly and thighs.

It goes to the iron calves, which is the Roman Empire, the cult of Mithras, all of that sort of stuff. So you can see as you go down the statue, every metal that it's made out of is becoming less and less valuable. That means it's becoming more and more deluded, more water. Got it. It's pure, less valuable. By the time you get to the feet, which is where we are now, modern day civilization, it says it's made of iron and clay.

So not only is the the metal like a much less pure metal than gold, but also it's mixed in with clay, which makes it much more fragile or much more brokeable. It says that once we reach that point, a rock that no human hand has shaped will hit this statue and shatter it. And the pieces will disintegrate to the wind, meaning this old system will be gone. Oh, and that's when the new one will come into being. That's so spooky. What's the rock?

Why are we in the feet? I want to be in the calves. Well, the rock, the rock means it says that no human hand shaped this rock. That means it will be an act of God. It will not be something that mankind does that brings it into this. OK, God, that's why no hand shapes it. OK, OK, cool. OK, I get in this this, you know, and you throughout the Bible, when it is like talking about the apocalypse,

it always is there seems to be an emphasis on you won't know when it's coming. You can't guess the time and that would explain why, because this has nothing to do with humanity. This is something on a completely different level that is going to fuck up this statue that we find ourselves in. And that's it. But that's that's an exciting, you know, like we all the stuff going on right now in the world, you know, it seems like you can look at it from like one of two ways.

Right. And it's obvious, like from one perspective, holy shit, this is scary and horrific. And I can't believe humans are still doing that to other humans. I can't believe this is a but then the other side of it, right, is like, but look at the outrage in the world right now. Look at the the way like you could just see how if we are to get to a place where the statue collapses or the new thing comes, there's no way to do it.

Without an extended period of turbulence, right? There's no way. It's like, you know, when you're taking medicine, this new thing, everyone thinks when I was a kid, medicine sucked. You didn't want to take medicine. Remember when you took cough syrup when you were a kid, it was like barf. It was horrible. Now everybody's like they think part of healing is it feels good or that it should

feel good. It sucks like real medicine hurts. I've had my ball chopped off, man. That sucked. Didn't feel good. It was awful for a long time. It's still kind of sucks. They're like, think about it. Yeah. What what what meadow was that statue's balls made out of is the question.

They'll mention that. So I mean, exactly what you're describing, though, this is what in the Bible, they called the threshing floor, you know, like used to in the threshing floor, they would go out and they would gather the grain and then spread it around on the floor and then beat it with something that looked like a cat of nine tails in order to separate the good edible part from the trash part. Yeah. So when you're getting whipped with the cat of nine tails, you're not going to think it's fine.

It's not going to be bliss, but it's leading to a kind of purification process. You sound like my dominatrix. I get you, though, I get it. I think that's a good way to reframe suffering, too, is to understand like, yeah, but this is like think of any great thing in at least in my life. It would never was easy, you know, like kids relationship. John, it's never been easy. And it's been quite painful at times.

But thank God for the for all that because that that I don't know of anybody who has experienced like real true personal evolution minus some kind of pain. You know, I don't know of that. Maybe it's maybe it happens, but I'm not aware of it. No, in that scene, that actually a scripture in the book of Isaiah where God says, I have refined you not as silver is refined, but I have refined you through suffering, meaning it's the suffering we go through that purifies us. Yeah, well, we were we were talking about just the other day,

just about, say, like a relationship or a marriage or whatever. And that we were out on the road and which we've been a lot lately, just driving around the country. Cool. And we were listening to Adele. And like every Adele song is about break up. You know, she's lots of love stuff. And I was I like started thinking about when we first got together or when anyone gets together and there's that initial like craziness when you're in love

and all that lust and there's the I just have to, you know, just have this part, you know, all that stuff. You're crazy. You go and like it's insane. And then you move through that phase and then you start fighting. And then it's like from one like from one painful thing to another. And then usually you'll have one like big thing that comes that you think, we're not going to make it through this. Yes. And almost every couple has this.

And I keep and I told Damien, I was like, if you can get through that, all of that, but if you can get through that really horrible, painful part without letting go, as long as there's no like horrible abuse and stuff like that. But if you really love each other and it's so awful, if you can just get through that, literally, I mean, you get to the best place ever in the relationship where there's trust, there's love, there's acceptance, there's all that stuff.

But you have to go through that horrible time and stick with. Hey, as above so below, is this not what we're experiencing as a planet right now? The exact thing, if we could just get through this, holy shit, on the other side, among the fragments of this statue, there's something incredible waiting for us, right? Yes. What is it? A new beginning. Yeah.

Just like in a relationship, it's like you suddenly, I don't know, it's like you've gotten through all the hard stuff, you've done the work. And that's the thing, too, you have to do the work. So how many, like you think about all the people in the world and it's like as a whole, are we all doing the work? And then you've got some that aren't, which you're getting. So it's kind of when you go through all that also and come out the other side, no two relationships are going to look the same.

Right. You know, I think of it as like it's like in connection with your will, like your will, doing your will in the world, isn't going to look exactly like anyone else's will because nature is not like making cookie cutter people. That would be a waste of energy. Right. Like each of us are here for a specific purpose that may overlap with other people's, may have stuff in common with other people's.

But we're also each here to do something very unique. And relationships are that exact same way. Like when you come out the other side of going through all those hell realms, yours won't look like anybody else's does. And also this new beginning that we're coming to, that's why you can't say exactly what it's going to look like, because that new beginning will also look different for each person. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Wow, that's so interesting. I know it's clearly some form of singularity and trying to prognosticate what falls on the other side of a singularity is apparently impossible to do prior to the singularity. Like you can look at technology. You can look at the world. You can, you know, use some kind of inner subjective

understanding of yourself. But ultimately, yeah, you don't you won't you won't know. This is the infuriating God of the Bible, though. That's always like, I what's your name? Oh, I am like, what? What does that mean? And I know it's been translated, but you know what I'm saying? There's a quality of the koan and so

many of these biblical stories that defy your ability to really like untangle. It's like it's beyond a puzzle, which is a hint about what this God creature is, whatever it may be. Yes. So listen, y'all are such wonderful people. And it's so cool talking to you. I love that we talked about the Bible and relationships.

And to me, this is like, I think in the misunderstanding of magic, people don't realize that any time you encounter people who are really practicing magic, they're always so sweet. At least that's maybe you've I know they're not always so sweet. That's a dumb thing to say. But there's a type of people who practice magic. It's you all exude warmth and there's a healing that comes from just getting to talk with people like you.

I'm curious if you're still teaching magic and if you teach it together. Are you still doing that? Y'all offer classes still and work with people? Well, mostly what we're doing right now, both of us do. You're familiar with like Patreon. Yeah, sure. So both of us do that like we're doing classes through that. It kind of like kicked into high gear during the pandemic when everything was

locked down and we had to stop doing everything in person. And we both kind of realized we actually like doing it like that more than in person. We have started doing some in-person things again. Yeah, you know, little things. But I think this is one of those things like I don't ever want to be the kind of person who's out there like proselytizing or handing out templates or trying to convert people to magic or whatever. I think this is something because this does require a lot of discipline,

a lot of dedication. It's not like it's going to work. If you just get up one day and say, you know, I'm going to be a magician. Right. You know, sometimes people say, I'm going to, you know, convert to this religion or that religion. Yeah, I think this is one of those things that everyone has to find their way to whenever they are at a place, a point or a stage, whenever they're ready for it. So I don't like to beat anybody over the head with it.

If they come to us, then we'll do things. But I also hate, you know, for it just, I don't, I'm not comfortable with the whole thing about being a teacher. You know, I don't like that title or I don't want people looking at me that way or any of that kind of stuff. But we still do share some of this. Basically, the way I always look at it is I'm not trying to teach people. What I'm trying to do is leave a record of what I did and how I did it so that

those who are interested in doing the same can find it maybe a hundred years after I'm dead, maybe tomorrow, and they'll be able to replicate or duplicate it based on what I leave behind. But I'm not interested in being like, you know, some modern day guru figure, any of that sort of stuff. But you do find yourself probably having to deal with people trying to saddle you with that, right? Have you experienced, have you encountered this thing where you're like, oh, wait, you want me, you would like me to go Jim Jones?

You would like it if I suddenly started, if I became like a guru. Do you ever get that sense of like, shit, they want me to be the thing? Yeah, I think people in general, most people, I think it takes a very, very strong, intelligent and evolved person to move beyond this phase. I think most people want a parental figure. Yeah, or want someone to save them. They want someone to make it to make everything safe. They want somebody to do the work for them.

Yes, I want somebody who's going to show them exactly every step of the path. Yes. So yeah, you do come across a lot of that. And I want that. I mean, that sounds awesome. Daddy takes care of me and shows me the path. Sign me up. I need it. I think the only problem, the big problem with stuff

like that is sooner or later, you will disappoint those people because you are human and they're going to see they're going to have to see through their projections on you at some point and realize this is just another dude. You know, he may have did some stuff. He may have seen some things, whatever, but this is just another guy. Yeah. And I think that's actually part of what you should be. You know, one of my tutors told me at one point, he said, you know, you've gone wrong on this path when you lose the ability to appreciate a good dick

joke, you have to keep that humanity in. Right. Oh, God forbid you go to that dark hell realm of not laughing at dick jokes. You know, that is definitely a sign of like your rituals are fucking up. And that's so cool, man. That's so cool. Look, I've heard, you know, some of my Buddhist friends, when they're talking about gurus, they describe it as I've heard one of them talking about someone.

They're like, oh, he went and became a guru. Like they got a disease. You know, they look at it like it's something. It's a mistake. Don't do that. And I. Yes. And I love that. Like I do think there's a discipline in like continue like anytime you see someone who has let themselves turn into that kind

of thing, you know, it never works out. You're always going to disappoint in like in the most incredible ways. And then there's some kind of fucking scandal. You know what I mean? But and then because people are pissed because like, what do you mean? You're not my daddy who shows me the way. What are you? What the fuck? You're what?

I saw you drinking wine or whatever the fucking thing is, you know. Exactly. So you got to steer clear of that. Exactly. You do not want that. Do you think I'm sorry if this is cheesy, but to wrap things up here, would both of you or either of you do some form of prayer for lack of a better word for our listeners to, I don't know, just tune them up a little bit. Do you have anything like that?

What I usually do, and this is one of those things that's vague enough that it covers anything, because a lot of times we don't know what we want. We know that we want something other than what we have. We want to be somewhere other than where we are. We want to be someone other than who we are that however or wherever we are right now, just isn't working out in some way. Yes. And we know there's somewhere else to be, but we don't know exactly what it is. So we have to trust in divinity.

You know, like you like we were talking about earlier, you don't need to tell it exactly what you want or exactly where to get you or how to get you there. Let it control the process. And kind of the prayer that I do, that I've done for years and years over and over and over that takes that into consideration, I'll always just say, may the divine light descend upon us in order to protect, guide and illuminate us on our journey through life and on the path of high magic. May it come about in a way that brings harm to none and is for the good of all.

And in no way let this reverse or bring on us any curse. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that. And thank you for your time, Damien, Laurie. Thank you. We love you. I love you. And I hope that we get to I hope you keep writing books so that we keep doing podcasts. It's all and I hope I get to see in person again someday. Yes, absolutely.

We would love to tell everybody where they can find your book. I, you know, and also I can release this closer to when your book comes out. But if you're doing pre-sale or whatever, just how can we find your newest book? They can get it pretty much anywhere right now. Oh, the best way I think, you know, you always want to drive traffic to your own websites or whatever. So Damien Eccles dot org. Dot com dot com Damien Eccles dot com. Sorry, they can go through there and there's links to it on there.

But you you'll be able to find it pretty much anywhere you normally get books, whether it's Amazon or Barnes and Noble or or probably a lot of metaphysical shops, any of those places. But Damien Eccles dot com dot com. And Duncan, if I can say one thing, this is off topic. Please. Damien Damien has a hearing for DNA testing on a piece of evidence that we've been fighting for for the last two years. So I just want to put it out there to everybody, pray for us, write letters, support us, come to the hearing, whatever.

But this is possibly going to be what is going to clear his name and find who committed those crimes. It will be on June 23rd in Arkansas. We'll be in court. Whoa. Wow. June 23rd, Arkansas. And is there some what you're saying pray for? Is there some possibility they're not going to accept the evidence or there's something getting in the way of this? The prosecutor has been fighting tooth and nail to keep this DNA from being

tested for almost two years. They lied at one point and said it was destroyed in a fire, that it doesn't even exist anymore. My attorney's got a court order to go into the police station and found it still there. Yeah, so now that we know it's there, we're still asking. Let us go forward. They're fighting it. The state is fighting it, so it's going to be up to a judge to decide. So so we already know you're already exonerated because we already like no one's fighting that no one's fighting that if they think it's going to incriminate you.

They're only fighting it because they know it's going to humiliate them and show. Holy shit. That is so exciting. OK, we'll be praying for you. Where is it going to be? Arkansas? Arkansas, West Memphis, Arkansas, West Memphis, Arkansas, DTFH family show up at this. Send good vibes. How exciting.

I I I know that it's going to I know what will happen for the best. I know it will. And I'm and that's good news. It's wonderful spending time with you all. How do you thank you so much? Thank you. Thank you so much. That was Damien Eccles and Laurie Davis. You can find all the links you need to find them at duckatrustle.com. Pre-order the book.

Get some tickets to my shows coming up. Subscribe to my Patreon. But most importantly, thank you for listening. I love you all so much and I hope that you are having a wonderful week. I'll see you in a few days. Hare Krishna. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, J.C. Penney.

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