Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 531: Szandora LaVey

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Szandora LaVey, Duncan's favorite satanist and our resident satanic witch, joins the DTFH! You can follow Szandora on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: Herb Stomp - Use code DUNC15 at checkout to receive 15% OFF your first order! Babbel - Sign up for a 3-month subscription with promo code DUNCAN to get an extra 3 months FREE! ZipRecruiter - Try for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/Duncan

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podcast. If I sound different to you, it's simply because this is the month of October. This is the month of mystery. It is this month where we do not celebrate something idiotic like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, but something real, true, something very, very human, which is darkness.

It was October 1978. Joanna Maloney, a beautiful 35-year-old fashion model with the heart of a poet, was taking a walk in a small national park 30 miles away from her home in upstate Kentucky. She'd often gone on this walk to clear her head to get some exercise, but on this day, she was going for a different reason altogether.

She had had a dream the night before, where two squirrels and an owl had told her that if she were to take this very walk at exactly 3 PM, the following day she would find treasure there in that national forest. And so smiling and not really taking the dream seriously, but thinking to herself, you never know, she decided to listen to the owls, to listen to the squirrels.

And she got in her white Chevy pickup truck and headed up the road for a hike of mystery. Halfway there, she passed a beautiful hitchhiker. He had incredible abdominal muscles, long flowing blonde hair, a tattoo of the peace sign, a hippie symbol of love and unification on his back. She says that she thought he seemed special and she could see the glint of the sunlight in his blue eyes.

So she pulled over, picked him up, continued to drive. He asked her if she wanted to listen to a bootleg of Paul Simon. She told him she would rather that he just eats her pussy while she drove up to the park. He agreed. And as they rode up the road, he began to deliver to her the most powerful session

of cunnilingus that she had ever experienced in her life. Even the German shepherds in the backseat experienced orgasm. When she arrived at the forest, the hippie disappeared. She found a note on the car seat saying, this is the treasure I told you about in your dreams. This is a true story that was told to me by your mom. Now, we have a wonderful podcast for you today.

With us here is Satanic witch, Zandora Lavey. I have been friends with Zandora for years. I had the honor and good fortune to perform my Satanic pop it act for her at her wedding where she married Stanton Lavey, the grandson of the founder of the church of Satan. We had a wonderful conversation clearing up many of the misconceptions about Lavey and Satanism,

witchcraft, Satanism in general. And I'm sure by the end of this episode, you'll see why Zandora and I are friends. Are you interested in commercial free episodes of the DTFH? Then go no further than patreon.com forward slash DTFH. Not only will you get commercial free episodes of America's most beloved podcast, but you can hang out with us twice a week

in our family gatherings or weekly meditation group. I'd love to see you there. Now strap in and prepare yourself for a mind meld with my favorite Satanist. No offense to my other Satanic friends. All the links you need to find Zandora are going to be at dunkertrosil.com. But now welcome to the DTFH, Zandora Lavey.

Welcome, welcome on you, to Zandora Lavey. Welcome, welcome on you, that you are with us, shake hands, no need to be blue. Welcome to you. It's the Dunkertrosil video. Zandora, welcome to the DTFH, how you doing today? I'm doing pretty good, how about you, Duncan? I'm good, I'm pretty good, a little tired today,

but excited to talk to you. I've really been looking forward to our conversation, because as I've been thinking about the questions I wanted to ask you, I realized I really don't know as much about Satanism as I think I do, as I was contemplating some of these questions, so my first question for you, the most basic ever, what is your definition of Satanism? Well, to me, well, not to me, but Satanism

is a non-theistic religion. When we say hell Satan, Satan represents ourselves. It's more of a self-worship religion than, you know, worshiping a deity or a god. We do involve lesser and greater magic, when what that means is like, lesser magic is like more of a psychological manipulation of getting your way and making things happen, right?

It's just like a psychological ritual. And then greater magic is ritual magic, which is we usually have a compassion ritual or a destruction ritual. Some choose not to do the greater magic, and it's more of a lesser magic lifestyle thing for them. It's really up to the Satanist. And Satanism is a religion, but it's not,

it doesn't have set rules, right? You can still have the ability to be yourself and be open. It's indulgence instead of abstinence, but don't be an asshole, you know? Right. So I hope that helps explain kind of what Satanism is. That is an excellent articulation of it. But with that articulation,

the first thing that pops into my mind is from a Satanic perspective, what is this self? What is the identity? If you're worshiping yourself, what are the specifics of that identity that you're worshiping? You know, like, I think with me, especially with Satanic witchery,

so much of it does come from my femininity and using that prowess to my power and my advantage at times, right? So, I mean, it's just taking humanism and balling it up into a package where there is ritualism involved, you know? I think worshiping yourself, there is like a materialistic

and selfish part that comes, you know, from that in Satanism, but who isn't selfish in an asshole at times? I think that in a world that we're in, it's necessary to be that way to survive, so. But like, when I think of myself, it's scrambled eggs over here. It's like, you know, I don't know

what the fundamental self is even. It's a thing that seems to change. Or if I look at myself 10 years ago versus now, it's something of a different self. So, when you say worship of oneself, what does that specifically look like? How do you pull out from your own, I- I think that what that means as self worship is,

you know, loving yourself and not feeling guilty when you fuck up and you're a human, you know, like, it's not like you have some sort of identity, like a Satanist is a cookie cutter person because you're a Satanist. I mean, your idea of self worship is up to you, but to me, like I said, it's worshiping my femininity

and that is a huge part of Satanism for me is celebrating that and it allows me to do that. And a lot of religions, even in kind of witchcraft, they don't allow women to be at the forefront. They don't celebrate that. And that is a part of my self worship, you know, is loving myself. And I think that people see Satanism in like a really dark way

when really it's just kind of a self help book, you know. Got it, okay, got it. Now, dad, yes, thank you. In general, like I think when people hear Satanism, just like you said, they don't think self help. They, here's what they think. They think, well, they hurt children. They sacrifice children.

They are part of a dark network, but they're the ones putting the fentanyl in the candy. They're the ones who are, it sort of reminds me of when you hear about the way people thought of witches. If your cow is not producing milk, it's a witch. There's a witch nearby. Maybe your fucking wife, if things are going wrong in society, it's the Satanists.

The Satanists have a plan. They're out there erupting. Yeah, you see no Satanists doing, you know, shooting people and killing people. You know, you do see people of certain different religions doing that, but it's usually never Satanism, I mean. We've got, you know, y'all have a few.

We have a few. We have a few. We have some serial killers too. You got Ramirez. Yeah. You got Richard Ramirez. You have, who else do you have? Richard Ramirez.

Oh, even Dahmer was into the Satanic Bible too, so. You know, who hasn't had a copy of the fucking Satanic Bible in their messy apartment? Give me a break. That's like 81 and 12. I just watched the Dahmer series and they actually have the Satanic Bible sitting in his apartment on the table.

I was like, oh, okay. So that's kind of what's out there, right? Like that's kind of what people see as like this Dahmer thing, which I thought was a great show. But like, yeah, of course they're gonna put the Satanic Bible in a serial killer's house to kind of further the narrative

that we kill people and sacrifice people and God eat people. We may sacrifice people metaphorically, but it's like in a ritual, you know, like a destruction ritual. If you're gonna curse someone, it is called a destruction ritual. So I mean, you know, there is an energy

that's been, you know, propelled towards destruction, but it's not like we will go out and like kill people. You know, everybody has, every religion and every walk of life has their assholes and shitheads. Okay? There's just no way of getting around that because people are individuals and have individual thought.

Yeah. But if we're gonna like, you know, there's a professor, David Nut in the UK, he made a harm scale of drugs. What are the most harmful drugs, the least harmful drugs? And he used a lot of cool methods to come up with that. The least harmful drug on the scale, mushrooms physiologically, what it does to you.

The most harmful drug, I think it was alcohol, like up there in the sense that it's so available, it fucks your body up, it's everywhere. And then like heroin safer than alcohol. Yeah, believe it or not. Yeah. I mean, I kind of believe that. But if we were to do the same thing for world religions,

I think Satanism would fall on the side of like, not hurting people. I mean, if we're really gonna map it out, like what organized religions have caused the most harm in the world, I don't think Satanism is, like, I don't know. Like, I imagine that like under Satanists are gonna be Quakers, probably something like that.

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like something like that. Yeah, but they probably burned witches. I don't think they did. I'm just kidding. They probably thought about it. They probably thought about it.

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So, okay, I think folks aren't aware of the fact that there are lineages in Satanism. There isn't like just, here's what Satanism is, right? Aren't there various forms of Satanism out there? I was wondering if you could talk about those. Totally, you know, first I'll start with Levet and Satanism. That was created in the 1966 by Anton Levet, the church in San Francisco.

And the church of Satan was opened in Onwall Purgesnot, April 30th, 1969. So, I mean, it is a fairly new Western religion, right? So, I think too, that's where some of the confusion comes in because it is such a new religion. There's also the Satanic Temple, who is also an organized Satanic religion, but they take a more political stance, right?

Right. They don't only come from ritualism, but they also stand up for abortion rights. They go after states, you know, like through the legal process. I think that they have open abortion lawsuits in Texas, Indiana, and Idaho right now. Yes. And they do all kinds of sorts of things

to connect the Satanic community. And I think that's really cool. And they have a headquarters in Salem, Massachusetts, but getting back to the Levet and Satanism, that's kind of the Satanism that I was talking about to you earlier. That's the type of Satanism that I follow. But I do support the Satanic Temple and what they do.

I do a lot of events with them. Recently, SatanCon was a spectacular event in Scottsdale, Arizona. So, they told, they said that they couldn't have an event there or I can't remember exactly, put a statue, it was something to do with some religious stuff. But they said, you can't do that here. So, they decided to hold the first largest Satanic convention

ever in Scottsdale, Arizona. And the amount of protesters that were there was amazing to see. There were Protestants and Catholics getting in a fist fight brawl over a corner. The Catholics won. But you didn't see any Satanists getting into a brawl. That's what I'm trying to say.

It was a pretty peaceful event, but the Christians were there running amuck, I'll tell ya. Well, this, so another sort of preconceived notion people have about Satanism is that it celebrates evil. That there is a celebration of evil. Is that accurate? Would you say Satanism celebrates evil? I think that people confuse

one accepting their sexuality as evil. And so many times, sexuality and evil go hand in hand. Now, you see rituals of like Anton Levé in the 60s and there are people with goat heads and pig faces and things like that. Well, that's called a psychodrama. That type of ritual is there to invoke a mood, right? So yeah, Satanism does take a dark connotation,

like as far as style. There's a lot of goths that are Satanists, but there's a lot of people like in tech and in law and all these things that you wouldn't expect that are actually Satanists too. So I don't think that necessarily you should go off of judging a book by its cover when it comes to Satanism, but so often, yes, the personification of that

in imagery is dark. Well, let's talk about that because something that has always confused me is the idea that goats are evil. I've been around goats. They have to be some of the least scary creatures out there. They're adorable and I mean, maybe they'll butt you. You know, they're strong.

You can't move one, like at least I can. If it doesn't want to be moved, it won't really move, but how did the goat get wrapped up as a symbol of darkness? Eliephus Levy is the person who drew the Baphomet originally. And the Baphomet, if you really kind of look at him, is kind of a dual spirit being.

He's a them, he's a they, or they are they. Like the goat has a goat head and female tits, you know? So I think that, you know, a lot of the goat really came. It's not as a sacrificial thing or as a representation of evil. It's just, I think, to the horns, the breast, it's a beast and having him stand up on his legs kind of grounds him and gives him power.

So I think when he drew that, he was taking all of these things in and just kind of making his own interpretation of what Satan was, or, you know, visual representation. And I think that just really stuck. Yeah, well, you know, the Baphomet drawings that creep me out are the ones where they don't work hard enough to show these are female boobs,

where it looks like moobs, or what they call pot tits, or it's like, you know, like the Baphomet. Pancake boobs, pancakes on a nail. Yeah, it's like, no, those are supposed to be like sexy boobs. Yeah, those are supposed to be tits. Not dad boobs. Like come on, work on, let's work on our Baphomet tits out there, Baphomet artists, come on.

I think that the Satanic temple took the root of having a male chest, you know, just because they wouldn't be able to publicly put it anywhere. And did you know that his chest was modeled after Iggy Pop? No fucking way. That is not fair. I wanted to, I submitted. They're like, it's snow, the boobs, you can't do it.

It's too much, too many moves, we can't do moves. No moves. Another symbol, Satanic symbol, that people are terrified of. I'm walking down the beach some time ago and I'm picking up sand dollars. You know, the little, you know, you know what I'm talking about, the little day of sand dollars.

The ones with Jesus inside? Well, they actually have a pentagram on the back. It's like a natural pentagram that forms on the back. I thought it was the funniest thing ever because I'm looking at him like, oh fuck man, these are some evil sea creatures, I guess. It's a naturally occurring form, the pentagram. It's everywhere and yet another symbol

that when people see it, they're like, oh, you better watch out, there's a pentagram. What does it mean? Well, so there is two pentagrams really used in magic. One is the inverted pentagram, which the two points are inverted. So they're pointing upwards and that's usually used in black magic, right?

And then the other one has the one point pointing up and that's for like wiccan magic, you know? And then like all of the points, it's five points, right? All, you know, air, water, you know, they're, the points also like you can use them in a way that is like, God, I'm sorry, my brain is fidgeting out right now. It's okay. I'm sorry.

Let's come back to the pentagram one. We'll come back. That one's a harder one to explain also because it means different things to so many walks of witchcraft that like that is a very like salty territory for me to get into. Okay, I get it.

So let's get that one. The last thing I want to do is offend witches. That's what I don't, I don't want to get into that. I don't want, you know, we don't want that. We don't want it. So as I was like explaining it, I was like, ooh, what it means to me? Could it mean ways something else to someone else?

I've heard it. It's a representation of appendages, the head, the arms, the legs. Yeah, because they did it with a guy on it and I mean, like that, like I said though, like in different scenarios, like in a ritual, there's like people sitting on each point of the pentagram, you know, there's also, it also represents,

you know, East, Northwest, South, you know, you have different ways that you can use the pentagram. So that's why I think like it represents different things to different people and in different situations. I want to thank Zip Recruiter for supporting this mystery month episode of the DTFH. Did you know there are currently over 2.4 million podcasts in the world, including the one you're listening to right now?

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OK, so going through the main symbols, people associate with Satanism, just to sort of deconstruct them, anecdotally, any time I've been around a Satanic ritual, which I think we could say that the wedding, your wedding that I performed at, was an incredible one. And another one that I was at, the Temple of Satan put one on. And also, when I spent time with you in Stanton,

I experienced what I think you're talking about, the aesthetic, the darkness. I experienced a kind of heavy, juicy, powerful vibe. Like it's deep, like something heavy. And these days I've come to associate anything I'm afraid of, that's good. Go towards, you need to explore that. There's something there.

But it wasn't comfortable. Not to say that you, when you made fried chicken, gave me absent. That was the most hospitable, sweet, living in LA. You don't need a lot of people from the South. So it was really, really nice. Thank you. But I mean, there's a tangible something there that that.

I mean, the goats, I'm sorry. I'm not going to be afraid of goats. Pinnograms? No, I'm not going to be afraid of pentagrams. But the vibe. Yeah, the vibe, too. What's that? OK, well, I think how people believe in the Holy Spirit,

and you see these people, yeah, you see these people run up the pews and up the aisles, and they have this feeling inside of them. That's like the type of energy that everyone has within them. And some people know how to conjure that energy better than others. And I think when you were in a situation with two people like Stanton and I, we were very much deeply into Satanism.

And the vibe was because that we did vibe on that level. And when you kind of open up your energy, and it is a chaos energy, which definitely followed that relationship, there is definitely a darkness that's going to be opened up and a vibe. So you're saying that might not be so much Satanism as much as two people being really open and then expressing. But I think that is an essence Satanism,

because we both harness that energy, right? So I think that during our relationship, there was a lot of ritualism. And that energy and that vibe, especially coming into our home, is always going to be there, you know? Gotcha. So now it's a non-theistic religion, as you said up front. And yet, like in tantric Buddhism,

there is a visualization of various deities. But an acknowledgment within that visualization that this is you, like you're seeing yourself. These are ways of seeing yourself. You're not like there's no, I think maybe some potential of a connection between the two is something shows up, which is like, no one's going to save you. You need to realize that, like, you know what I mean?

Like you've got to get a hold of that quick, because if you're sitting around waiting for someone to come and save you. That's never going to happen. You're right, but also. Rarely does that happen. Rarely. And even when it does happen, it's like, it's still like,

do you always want to be being saved? Do you always want some super man to come down? Do you always want, like, I mean, this to me is like one of the big problems right now is everyone's waiting for someone to save us, you know? And so, and then no one's doing anything. It's like, we've got to get moving here. You've got to do it yourself.

Yeah, you've got to. There is nothing supernatural that's going to come down and save you, not even in Satanism, Christianity, or whatever. You have to make those steps yourself. You know, you can, you know, I will say, though, like, I do believe in manifestation, you know, that there is a thing there.

And I am a strong believer of that and manifest things all the time, but it doesn't come just naturally. It just doesn't come from me wanting it and thinking about it. There are steps and actions that you have to take to make that manifest and manifestation move forward. So that's magic. I mean, you're just, that's what you're, that's magic.

There's really no difference between manifestation and magic. Yeah, yes, essentially. I mean, I say it as manifestation because it's a lot easier for people that don't really, you know, understand magic or Satanism will understand that, you know? But yeah, it is a manifestation magic. That's kind of a part of lesser magic, as I was saying earlier.

It's like, like, I guess, like, where maybe some differences appear between Satanism and a thread that runs through the philosophy of my Satanist friends is that it's OK to want stuff. Like, you're allowed to want things, desire not bad, desire good. If you want something, you don't have to start, like, beating yourself up for wanting a thing or feeling greedy

or feeling like your malfunction. Especially in a time where self-care and self-love is promoted, you know, like, that should be pretty well understood, you know, that caring for yourself is number one. If you don't love yourself and you can't, you don't care for yourself, your fucking life is probably going to be shit.

But I guess so, we'll go back to that. So, you know, the manifestation and, you know, I think some Satanists, because you, it is a super, it's a persecuted religion. Like, the Satanic temple in Salem was set on fire. I believe that was the one that got set on fire. Yeah, and he wore a shirt that said, God. There you go.

And I saw news stories on it. And because I'm friends with you and because I'm friends with, like, Mitch Horowitz and a few other Satanists and because I'm, like, I love you guys. And when I saw the news, thank you, when I saw the news stories, and they're, like, doing, like, tongue-in-cheek almost. They're, like, if any other temple, church, synagogue,

anything else had been set on fire, it would be national news. Oh, national news. Oh, yeah, seeing it in everywhere. Hate crime. Everywhere. It would be a hate crime. Hate crime. But in this case, it was just kind of like, ah,

what are you going to do? What are you going to do? It caused substantial damage to the front of that house, and there were people inside. People could have died. People could have burnt to death. It was an attempted witch burning. It was an attempt.

It was just, like, in Salem. It's just, like, what the fuck? Let's go retro here. I mean, we don't have to build the fucking. I'm sorry, it's not funny, but that was funny. Yeah, well, you got to lighten it up a little bit. I mean, yes. But it's like, you know, to me, that's

one of the curiosities of it as a religion, is that it gets constantly shit on, attacked. You should see the messages I receive from Christians online. I mean, telling me I'm going to burn in hell, and like, they hope my whole family burns in hell, and it's like, you can pretty much leave my family out of this, thank you. And it's like, I don't go to Christian, you know, webpages

and cause, you know, a ruckus. And I don't understand why they have to, like, always come and target Satanists or, you know, anyone, like, in the occult, because we pretty much mind our own fucking business. Right, right. Well, I mean, yeah, and the where is turn the other cheek here? Where is forgiveness? I mean, I think.

Exactly. You know, I'll just read this, one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes here. He's the best. He's the best. I'm pretty sure he was one of y'all. De facto Satanist. De facto Satanist, and I want to talk about that.

And I'm sorry for familiar this, for the folks listening. Mark Twain said, but who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother, who needed a friend, yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all, who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers

for the plain and unassailable reason that this was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners, the supremist. Have you ever heard that before? I have not heard that before. I mean, there's so many Mark Twain. I'm gonna have to really re-read that. That was very deep, Mark Twain.

Our brother. Our brother. Our brother. Yeah, yeah. You know, there's so many Mark. What's that? He's like sounding all Hellfire Club right there. I know, but to me, it's like, look,

if the idea is prayer, forgiveness, love, compassion, why are you persecuting people who are, at least in my experience, some of the sweetest people I've ever met? Now, answer this for me. When you have, you've taught me a lot in some of our conversations, one of the things you're like, say what you're thinking,

say how you're feeling, let it out, what's going on, don't hide stuff, what's going on. So here's my suspicion. I was raised a Christian. I am a veer towards neurosis paranoia. Having spent a lot of time with you, a lot of time with Stanton, a lot of conversations with Mitch Horowitz.

And really, from a cynical perspective, looked in like, okay, what's really going on? Where is it? This is one of my suspicions that has popped up. I'm like, are they tricking me? But is it like, you know, Scientology, you get deep into Scientology and suddenly they're like, look at-

Do you think we're like recruiting you? Not recruit, no, I don't feel like you, you don't need, I mean, I'm a de facto, as you said, I'm a de facto Satanist. You're de facto. I don't think you really need to recruit, but no, I just mean more like, you remember those awesome chick comics?

Yeah. Oh, my favorite. I have one made of me. Oh, that's cool. But you know, it's always in the beginning, you meet the Satanist, they're so cool. They're awesome, you know, but by the end of the chick comic, your car's going off a cliff,

you're with your Satanic friends. They're like- Ah, we gotcha. There's like a bag of pills falling out the window as you're going off the cliff. Yes, I love this. You're grabbing for the pills? Fuck, that's good ecstasy, man.

So yeah, what about that? Is it a trick? Is that part of your game is like, hey, we're gonna be the sweetest, coolest, most compassionate, generous, we're gonna make you fried chicken dinners, we're gonna help you forgive yourself, we're gonna help purge you of any kind of like trauma

from weird associations with Christianity when you're just a little kid, you didn't have the fucking rational mind to determine that there is no loving God with someone to hell. That's insane. We're gonna help you get your rational mind back that was beaten out of you

by superstitious terrified people. And then once all that happens, somewhere down the road, we're gonna plunge off fucking dagger right in your heart and lick the blood off and offer it to our brother, Satan. You know, there actually is no catch. And I'll kind of explain that because even in the very beginning of Satanism,

Leves and Satanism here in San Francisco, Anton and Diane, they would hold like, you know, workshops and even the original members of the Satanic church were like prostitutes, gays, transsexuals, or transvestite transsexuals, you know, people from all walks of life that were accepted in the normal society,

they were accepted, you know, and they were like given a platform to where they could actually exercise, you know, being them actual selves and being comfortable with themselves. So I think like, you know, even, you know, I think that most Satanists are pretty open people. And I think that a lot of us have stemmed

from traumatic situations and that makes it easier for us to recognize that and our friends and kind of help them out and see things for the way that they actually are and to know that we're all human when it comes down to it. We all do shitty things, shitty things happen to us, but it's just the way that you process it and move on that makes it kind of worthwhile to be around and kicking.

So I think that, yeah, I think that most Satanists are open and helpful and that's really not what people see a lot. I saw it and the other thing that I noticed and I've always been curious about this, maybe this is just you versus it being some like tradition and Satanism, but when we would hang out at the comedy store,

which was so fun. It was the funnest. You would always go to the person who was left out, you know, cause that happens at the comedy store, there'd always just be someone out on the outskirts and you would be so sweet to them and you would like, you know, like say the kindest things to them, not flattery, but like you saw into them

and watching a person experience that and realizing she's doing, I think she's doing that as a practice. Like I think there's something in there that might be part of the tradition, but I don't know, maybe that's like, I was true. I think for me, where that comes from is I've always had like an intuition about people

and I've always noticed the underdog because I think in so many times people have mistaken that in me that I would be the underdog or, you know, people would leave me out of scenarios and situations and school and it always made me feel bad and especially like being the weirdo in school. Like, you know, I was the goth person,

I was a Satanist and, you know, people didn't like me. They didn't like that in the South. And I think that I took that with me and it's not, I don't think that really comes from Satanism. It just comes from being a good person. I don't like to see people left out. Cool. That bothers me. You hear that, Christians?

We got a real monster on our hands over here. Get your email fingers ready. Yeah. So, okay. Now, do you remember when you taught me how to do curses? Oh my God, yes. I want to thank Herbstop for supporting this episode of the DTFH during Mystery Month. Herbstop, it's the only place to grab top quality

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Do you remember when you taught me how to do curses? Oh my god, yes. I won't get into that details, but do you remember how like because in those days I was really like depressed and really dark and like I like I need like your friend, like my experience with you, I consider it like a very spiritual evolution for me. Oh my gosh, thank you. But I'll never forget how you got real serious with me and you're like, don't curse. You were like, don't do that. Like you were explaining the metaphysics of it, you're explaining here's why not. And I remember both of you were like, if you really want to like get revenge, live a good like, you know, like, become successful. That's the ultimate way.

That's my revenge every day. Yeah, yeah. So I remember, yeah, I know what you're saying and and you know, the curses, have I done them in my life? Yes, I wouldn't really be able to say that I'm a practicing satanist without have experienced that. Do I do that now? No, like it would take something really personal for me to go there. It's just not worth it to me. It's not worth having the you know, instant karma, as they say, and whenever I do anything bad, I get like hit with like, whatever they want to call it, instant karma. She's a bitch, like immediately. So I think that I, I try to stay away from doing dark things, even though I may thank them, even though, you know, you do because you are open manifest thoughts of darkness and maybe bad things happen to people.

That's why I always have to be careful about what I say out loud too is because words carry weight, right, especially to me. So I yeah, I tend to not go that route. I think I'm better than that. I'm a better rich than that. Yeah. Now, there is what's the difference between like a satanic witch and like a wicked? Let's just get I'm going to get like very surface about this because I don't want the witches coming to get me. I think like, you know, with white witchcraft, it's more of God and goddesses and deities and white magic, which is, you know, of the nature and celebrating the witch, you know, they are witches. I think, you know, in a way,

they use their prowess the same way as a satanic witch does, you know, some of them are glamorous. But I think satanic witches come from a place where it's not just ritualism, but you have to, like, use your common sense to survive in this world. You have to use your attributes to get places sometimes. Do we play stupid? Absolutely. Because sometimes playing stupid will get you exactly where you need to be. So I think that there is a lot of psychological magic that goes on and a lot of the lesser magic that goes on with satanic witches versus a like more pagan style witch. It's more it's more of a modern witchcraft, as you would, as I would call it. It sounds like you're talking about instead of sort of like subconsciously being seductive,

which I think a lot of people do. They may not even realize that they're doing it. It's acknowledging like within your femininity, there is this insane power. This is the thing that brings human life to the planet. And you can, you don't have like being aware of that and using it to improve your life doesn't mean you're a bad person. But in, but what are the words for someone who does that? Horseslet. That's it. That's it. It's all the like, whereas like in generally with like men, it's like, well, you're a natural leader. You're an alpha. You know, nobody's like, you're a fucking whore. Look at you. Like, yeah. Honestly, and to what I can say in satanism, people might get mad at me for this, but I've been around for a long time. So if you've been

around longer than me, then you can get mad about it, I guess. But there is a difference between the females and the males in satanism. The males with not all of them, I can't put everyone and lump them. But in my experience, they fight, they fight over power. They, they change roles a lot. And you see the satanic witches more in support of one another, that they act as like a legitimate coven and have each other's backs. And you don't really see them getting on an online tips or anything like that, because I don't really think it's necessary for women to feel like they harness all the power, especially coming from, you know, being a satanic witch. The whole thing about harnessing the power sometimes is not known, the other person not not knowing that you're doing it.

You know, so I think that women have come off a long way in using satanism and with and satanic witchery to their advantage. What is, you know, this is something I have noticed in my association with people who do magic. And it's, I think it's an archetype, but in also they say in shamanism, it happens too. But wizards in fight, you know what I mean? Like there's wizards are always fighting each other. Wizards and warlocks. What is that? Maybe it's a stereotype. I'm sorry, I don't want to piss off the wizards at warlocks either. But I have noticed like they're generally there's struggles that happen within that world. Like there's, you know, I never really thought about it that way, because I don't really like, you know, my mind doesn't really go to wizards

and warlocks, but man, does that make a lot of sense? Yeah, I mean, there's this agreement. It's power struggles. It's curious. It's curious. So another stereotype that I really want to get this out there, because this is all whenever I hear people talking shit about satanist, and boy, you know, if you, I know I don't get it as much as you do, but from time to time, you know, people will say, Oh, great. So I guess your friends with pedophiles, I guess your friends with people who abuse children. So great. That's who you're friends with. Can you set the record straight here for folks regarding this thing that comes up that satanists ritualistically abuse children? So that is not true. Where that comes from is from a book during the satanic panic,

like Geraldo Rivera days, and it was called Michelle remembers. And it came in this book, it's about this girl's experience being molested and abused in a satanic ritual and by satanist, and a satanic cult. But it did come out that she lied about it, the people that wrote it lied about it. So I believe like really that stuff started during the satanic panic during those Geraldo Rivera 90s days. And I don't think that satanism has quite recovered from that. Right. And I hope that one day it will. But really, I think that that's what put the nail on the coffin for satanism. I mean, it made Anton LeVe go broke. He had to sell the satanic, you know, the satanic church. He still was able to live in it, but he wasn't able to

forward the mortgage, you know, he, you know, that's why a lot of Zena and Nicholas Shrek stepped up during that time to kind of give it a new vibe and feel and that wasn't that successful. So yeah, I think that the satanic panic days really had destroyed satanism there for a little while. But I feel like it's coming back. You know what it didn't destroy? Catholicism. God. What the fuck? What the fuck? Like, that's to me the real chin scratcher is like, what? Like, how are you, anytime anyone sends me these things, I'm like, are you, are you sending these to your local diocese? Or why are you sending it to me? Like, I just don't understand like all of the sexual abuse cases like that are coming out. And it's just

like, how do you hide that many hide that many sexual abuse cases? Catholic church, tell me. They didn't. They didn't hide it. That's the thing. Yeah, that's true. I guess that in a way that is true. But you don't hide it. You just listen list of people. It's horrible. I can't imagine, you know, like, I know someone who is going through lots of therapy to overcome being abused by a priest. And it's horrible because it's like on top of I'm sorry, for some reason, this really pisses me off on top of taking I think it's because I'm a dad now on top of like, you know, when you have children, you realize shit changes and you see like they will believe anything I say and to imagine like implanting into them a story that terrifies them for their entire lives. I mean, that to me is abuse

like outside of the other shit that isn't that abuse. I mean, the thing is, is like it is horrible when people use a platform such as religion to abuse people. It's like one of the lowest that lows of the lows because that's supposed to be a place where you can totally trust. And it's a foundation of trust. And that's completely broken. You know, I mean, just shattered, especially I think to men have a harder time coming forward with abuse. So I do, you know, being a victim of childhood abuse myself, sexual abuse, I commend anyone that can go forward and be open and get therapy and talk to someone. It's important. Don't be ashamed of going and getting help because, you know, I thought that, you know, I can handle, you know,

trauma is not going to hurt me. And, you know, eventually all comes crashing down. So don't feel ashamed. There are so many places that will help you. There you go, Christians. What a truly, we must be talking to the incarnate bodymen of evil here. Hail Satan! Hail Satan! So, okay, so thank you. I think that you've covered all the misconceptions that I know that people have regarding your tradition, your religion. Now, we've got a little bit more time. All right. This is one of my favorite months. We are approaching Halloween. This is a traditional satanic holiday, a traditional satanic month.

Yeah, my busiest month. Can you tell us some rituals that maybe we could do in the days leading up to the 31st or like some ways to kind of tune in to the occult energy of this month? But before that, why is this month associated with witchcraft, satanism, spirits, and the occult? Well, they say that, you know, hollows Eve is the thinnest veil between the spirit world and our world. So, I think, you know, with Satanists, we kind of, a lot of us are into that, man. We're into the spooky stuff. It's our season. You know, we, I think, you know, as far as rituals go, there are just so many rituals that you can do. I think that, you know, getting the satanic rituals in the book would probably help find out what direction you want to go in personally.

But I think that because it is so close to the spirit world that the energy is a lot more open. See what direction, like I said, you want your life to go in. What do you want? Do you want to do a compassion ritual for yourself? Do you want to do that for someone else? You know, are you upset at someone? Hey, that's, that's all up to you too. I think that, you know, as far as rituals go, I would just kind of make that more of a dedicated to oneself and what they're kind of going through and what they're looking for. Okay. You know, not to give a generic answer, but that's kind of, it's a great answer. Not a generic answer. Do your research, folks. Buy that book. Buy the book. Get this satanic ritual book. It's available on Amazon. Now,

do you ever wonder to yourself, Standora? Sometimes hanging out with y'all and thinking about it. Do you ever wonder, am I a Christian and the Christians are actual Satanists? You know what I mean? Like is the whole thing so upside down that I am actually practicing an authentic form of Christianity that is not about hating oneself, but about loving oneself through loving oneself, generating love for others, but also embodying the other thing people when they're talking about Jesus sometimes leave out, which is there's a ferocity to Christ. There's a, it's, you know, what does he say? I come with an axe. I'm a jealous God. I'm a vengeful God. I'm a vengeful God. And I will separate brother from brother. I come with an axe. You know what I mean? Do you ever like kick

that idea around that like it's everything's gotten so warped that convert or die? Let's not forget that. Fair enough. Fair enough. But you know what I mean? Like sometimes what is the difference? What's the difference between, I'm not talking about fundamentalist, the, the, theocratic fascism. I'm talking about like kind of the hippie psychedelic idea of self love, compassion, appreciating life, not hating your body. What's the difference between Satanism and that version of Christianity? I think that Satanism is a more sexed up version of that, for sure. But they're really, you know, I mean, what's do, you know, I think like it's hard for me to explain this, I guess. I think that Christianity isn't all bad. Look, like if you,

if it works for you, hey, I'm all here, I support you. If you're a good Christian and you go by those Christian values, hell yeah. Do they always go by those values? No. But I think that there is just a, you know, a similarity due to that being a Satanist doesn't mean you got to be a bad person. You know, like, of course, like, if you, you know, it's like a Christian say I for an I, same thing with Satanism, you smashed me on one cheek, I'm going to smash you on the other, you know, and, and I think that like, do under others as you know, they should do under you is kind of like, don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you, you know, and that's kind of how Satanism is too. So I think that in those ways, there are similarities, but it is just interpreted

it so differently. It's like Christianity with a stinger. Yes. It's sexed up. And sexed up. Now, what, what, let's, we have about five more minutes. Do you have time? Do you have five more minutes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eight, six more minutes. Okay. Because I kind of, I think I like dodged the lead here. What does satanic sex look like? I know nothing about this. Like, what is satanic sex versus regular sex? Is it BDSM? I know something about that. But what's satanic sex? There are satanic rituals, you know, not all of them include the sex acts, but they are sexual, you know, you do have normally a nude altar. It could be of any sex orientation. It's up to you in your ritual. Hold on, let me get my pen. Nude altar of any sex. Okay. Okay. Usually, I know that

this is a misconception. No animals are involved in our rituals, especially during sex acts. I know you guys are disappointed out there. But as far as like a satanic sex on like a personal level, I think that also is up to your kink, you know, I think that for me, I manifest a lot during sex. I consider myself a pretty good lover, you know, I think that you invoke a mood, you invoke a feeling. And I think that the other person can feel that it's not all just chemical, it's how you're projecting your feelings and your wants and desires as well. So it could be pretty cool, pretty passionate, pretty sexual, sometimes kinky. Like I said, that's up to the satanist. Let's go back to the human altar. Okay. Now, so like, this is someone like on their hands and

knees. Sometimes they're sitting up, they're not on their hands and knees. Remember, no animals, we don't really even have women, we don't put women in those scenarios or men or them they, you know, however you identify. Mostly sometimes they're on their backs. Okay, good news, because I'm thinking that's gonna fuck my backup. There's no way I'm holding that posture for a whole ritual. You know, it's like when you go in, have you ever gotten a bought your figure drawn? No, I'm a never knew that sounds like a nightmare to me, but I know what you mean. Yeah, you have to pick the best position, right? You can't like have a position where your arms up for like 20 minutes are just gonna not it's not good. So it's like a relaxed you want to

be in not not too relaxed, but you want to be in a sensual pose. You know, you don't want to be like, I mean, like doggy style is, you know, that's pretty sexual, not sensual. I mean, hey, I don't those who have a doggy style alter though. I'm just thinking of functionality here. Like, what do you put the candles on? And you know, I don't know, like, you know, you put candles like next to them. And then sometimes you can do the candle wax on them. Sometimes there's fake blood. Whoa, fake blood. Wine. Wow. Well, that sounds real cool. Yeah, more people should do it.

Thank you so much. Thanks for being my friend. First and foremost. And thanks for doing the show and for all of your knowledge here. Thank you. I appreciate you, Duncan. I've always admired you and your work. And I think you're a pretty goddamn cool human being. Likewise. And you're one of my cherished friends. So now, if people want to reach out to you, do you do any kind of, do you offer any services? Like, do you help people with men? I don't usually do ritual work, but I do work in domestic violence as a case manager. And I do help people from time to time who are going through hard situations regarding that or suicide and mental issues. So I will say that if you are a Satanist and you're going through anything,

feel free to reach out to me. I don't want to hear about the situations that you're having with some deity or whatever. It has to be a real situation that's going on. But yeah, you can always reach out to me on Instagram or my Facebook. I'm here for you. And if you can't reach out to me, there's other places that you can reach out to, like the National Suicide Hotline and Domestic Violence Hotline. Great. All the links to find Zandora will be at DuncanTrestle.com. Zandora, thank you so much. This has been a joy. Thank you. Hail Satan. Hail Satan. Bye. That was Zandora LeVe, everybody. All the links you need to find her will be at

DuncanTrestle.com. Don't forget to subscribe to the Patreon. It's Patreon.com. And remember, when you see the shadows, go towards them for where there is shadow. There must also be light. I'll see you next week. Until then, Hare Krishna. It's spring Black Friday at the Home Depot, which means it's time to get your outdoor spaces ready so you can enjoy more this season. Right now, you can get the Stylewell Parkpoint 4-Piece patio set at a new lower price of $3.99 with its stain-resistant cushions and modern relaxed styling. It's the perfect centerpiece for your porch, deck, or patio, whether you're looking for sunny lounging or evening gathering. Hurry into the Home Depot to get the Stylewell Parkpoint

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