Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 577: Mr. Bill

Episode Date: August 13, 2023

Mr. Bill, one of Duncan's favorite musicians, re-joins the DTFH! Season 5 of Mr. Bill's incredible music program, The Art of Mr. Bill (Ableton Tutorials) is starting soon! Visit MrBillsTunes.com to learn how to produce your own electronic music. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: FÜM - Visit TryFUM.com and use code DUNCAN at checkout to get 10% Off your first oder!  AG1 - Visit DrinkAG1.com/Duncan for a FREE 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase! This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/duncan and get on your way to being your best self.

Like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like me, like We were makin' small talk, told me I put cotton candy, cotton candy in my butt today I took the balloon and walked away So far away is a girl and now I'll never know Did he put cotton candy in his butt that day? Did he put cotton candy in his butt that day? What a waste of swim we die his life A cosmon class and did that night result, so I did I'll tell you what I know. It's a sire. It, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, itabel to cold in the butt, please That's Cotton Candy's Sop by Hannibal Lace featuring Johnny Pemberton. My names are Duncan Trussel and this is the DTFH. I want to tell you about some shows I got coming up. I'm going to be at Zainey's in Rosemont, Illinois.

That is September 8th, 9th, and 10th. Also the Tacoma Comedy Club. September 21st, 22nd, and 23rd. Then I'm going to be at Cobbs after that helium. Then the Spokane Comedy Club, then Wise Guys, then the Comedy Zone. Come see me. You can find tickets at Ducatrossel.com or just go to the comedy clubs website if you would like commercial free episodes of the DTFH go no further than patreon.com Fort slash DTFH

Subscribe and you will no longer be plagued by commercials you'll get sweet pure unadulterated free-based DTFH power launched like a heat-seeking missile right into your calcified, stinky pineal gland. That's patreon.com-4thslash-DTFH. Or returning to the DTFH is one of my favorite musicians. I'm sure you are aware of his insane work. Mr. Bill is here with us today. If you're like me and you love making music, you should definitely check out Mr. Bill's tunes.com. I'm signing up for season five of the Art of Mr. Bill, Ableton Tutorials, he freely dispenses trade secrets of electronic musicians. If you've ever listened to any kind of super psychedelic music and thought, how did he do that? Did he throw a microphone into a hyper-dimensional gargoyles mouth and record the rumblings

of the quantum vacuum within its stomach? No, that's not what he did. Actually, a lot of the things that you hear in that kind of music are very doable. And if you are looking to expand your wheelhouse, if you want to find some more tools when it comes to making music, then definitely check out MrBillsTunes.com. Sign up for season five. All the links you need to find Mr. Bill or any of my comedy dates or any of the sponsors can be found at DunkinTrustle.com. And now let's jump into this deep philosophical and for me highly inspirational conversation with Bill Day, aka Mr. Bill. I'm going to sing a song. Bill, welcome back to the show.

Like I was just saying, off mic, I've been obsessed with your music, I've been driving around listening to it, and it is blowing my mind. I think this is the first time I've ever had a vehicle with like a good sound system. And so like now I'm able to like, not just listen to it, but like feel it,

you know, because it like vibrates your body in a certain way, and I just have to not just listen to it, but feel it because it vibrates your body in a certain way. And I just have to say, man, holy shit. I'm sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but where is that coming from? Where is that ability to tune in to a specific frequency that I have only experienced? Like, when I, like in, like, either like a dream states or like deep psychedelic experiences, where, what's your process, man? So my process is actually like kind of technical. It's not really emotional, which I think is a downside

and I think it needs to be more that way. But I mean, my process is basically, I just open up synths and stuff on my computer and I just start messing around or I will load samples into samplers and just start mangling them in different ways and just sort of fuck around with shit until I go, oh, fuck, that gives me an idea and then start writing a beat around it.

So usually it's this kind of creative accidents that then inspire some sort of idea generation. And I actually, I believe that creativity doesn't live in a vacuum at all. I don't feel like any of us really have original ideas. I feel like everything that we ever think or every idea that we ever have was spawned by the thing that just preceded that basically and then that gave us the thought to do X, Y, Z. And I feel like if you can kind of generate like interesting randomness, you can basically create like an endless cycle of creativity as long as you have that sort of stimuli to just generate ideas that you find exciting. And honestly lately, I've been using AI for that.

I'll train, there's this thing called dance diffusion that I've been using a lot lately. And basically you can train a model on a folder of sounds. And it works the same way as stable diffusion. So the way stable diffusion works is that like, we'll use Gaussian blurring or like basically white noise over and over again on an image. And then it gets to a point where it eventually goes like, all right, now I know how to get from white noise

back to that original image. And the way that the audio version of what works is actually the exact same. It actually still does it with images, but then in the background, once it creates the image of the thing that I was trained on, it uses like a synthesizer to take that male spectrogram and get it back to audio.

So it's literally just stable diffusion with a synthesizer on it. Wow. And so I've been training like models and stuff on my music, like just folders and folders in my music. And then it'll just generate like these sort of, because it can only train three second chunks right now. So it will generate these like three second ideas and it sounds like you're just flipping through a Mr. Bell radio basically. And one of them will be like, oh, shit, that gives me an idea. And then I'll cut that a little bit out and then sort of start building on that and stuff.

I love how inclusive you are in sharing your process how you're making some of these sounds. You know, because I didn't want to bug you, man. But I was listening to your music and I just kept thinking, how the fuck is he making this? I bet it's like a trade secret. I bet he doesn't say that it's like, you give away every single trick.

It seems like I'm, but I have to ask, do you hide anything? Is there anything you're like, I'm not putting out? Wow. And the reason why is because I think at the end of the day, like at this point of music production, no one has starved for information or starved for like resources, like good quality samples,

good quality synthesizer presets, like good quality VSD synthesizers at all, which didn't really even exist when I started. And yeah, all the information is on YouTube, all of the stuff where it's out there, like everyone's got access to everything. And so I think the only thing setting people apart at this point is their creativity and their ideas,

like their ability to generate an idea because everyone literally has the same set of sounds at this point to work with. You know, I think there's something even before that, which is most people, when they listen to the kind of music they, they, you make, the first thought out of their head isn't I could do that. That's would be easy to make this.

I could make something that sounds like someone threw a microphone into a black hole, like no problem. So I think that's the first probably obstacle as most people just don't feel like they have what it takes to make music of any kind, much less like something as sophisticated, high-tech, and intense as what you produce. Yeah, I have that with a lot of things,

not with music obviously, but I have it with like, you know, if I look at some sort of beeple 3D generated art or something, I'm like, well, that's so crazy, I can never do that. But really, the only thing that's holding me back is just looking into it and just spending like many, many hours just messing around with 3D software and stuff. Like I realistically could, but yeah, there's this mental block,

I feel like that a lot of people put up, and I also put up where you kind of just like discount the fact that it would be possible for you to do at all for xyz, whatever justification you might not even think about it. But like literally, if you just go on the internet and you're driven enough and you just want to make music, like digital electronic music or any music really, like just go to YouTube and type it in like all the information is there, it's crazy. I think this is sort of like part of being human is without even realizing you've done it,

you've sort of locked yourself in this tiny little room. This is what I do and this everything outside of the room is what I don't do. So you the room is what I don't do. So you might see, I don't know, some experiment in quantum entanglement, and you think to yourself, I would never be able to take quantum particles and entangle them.

I would never, or you wouldn't even look into, how do, what does that even mean? Or what is that? What is a qubit? What is that? And then how would I, if you wouldn't even look into like, how, what does that even mean? Or what is that? What is a qubit? What is that? And then how would I, if I wanted to do, like access to something that would let me entangle particles?

You would never even get that far. You just block yourself. I'm using them a very extreme example. But anyone listening, I'm sure you have a list of things that you think, that's not me. I would never do that. Well, something like that, not me, I would never do that. Well, something like that, for example, I would think about it for like two seconds and go, like, I probably need a physics degree, I'd probably need to go to MIT or some share, whatever

fuck. And I just put a block up, like it's not happening. But who knows, I haven't even looked into it. Like maybe if I went online and like, when on YouTube, I could start to understand bits of it, and you know, then that might inspire me to learn more and more of it and you know everything's possible but yeah it's definitely I think that's probably where a lot of people maybe even get stuck right it's like the before even trying but they just kind of like decide that they can't do it for whatever reason. Yeah it's it's a really like exciting thing just to even realize that about yourself.

Like when I got into just trying to make songs and make music, or when I got into comedy, pretty much anything that I've gotten into, I never thought, oh, I should do that, or I could do that, or I'll be able to do that. It was always having to overcome

or I'll be able to do that. It was always having to overcome like an insane, barely permeable membrane of confusion. I think that's the only way to put it. It's not even self-doubt. It's just confusion or a kind of self-imposed limitation. Especially when you're getting into a field that's been around for a long time and like so many people have stood on the shoulders of giants to get it where it is today that it's like to climb up

All of those people would just be like insane. So like for instance Like comedy, right? It's been around for a long time music's been around for a long time It's just very overwhelming. I think when you first get into it because it's just so much to learn and that like Initial hump like that initial learning curve. I think is what first get into it, because it's just so much to learn. And that initial hump, like that initial learning curve, I think is what holds a lot of people back. I'm curious, when did you get into comedy? Oh my God, I think it was late, late-ish nineties, something like that.

I just got a job at the comedy store at working on the phones, and I was gonna go to graduate school, didn't wanna be a comedian. It always used like being funny is a way to like, deal with social anxiety, you know, or just I think that's a lot of comedians story is like you sort of develop this defense mechanism

and so I was funny, but like not staying, I never thought of doing stand up. And then like just because you get three minutes of stage time, if you worked at the comedy store, which in those days seemed like an infinity to me, all the comics who are there is like, why are you here? Like what are you doing?

Like you're getting no money to work on the phones. Like the only reason we're here is for the stage time. Like there's no other reason to do this. They just kind of convinced me to do it. And, and, and, well, I mean, I think they also, I made them laugh and they thought I was funny. And so they wanted to see what would happen. And maybe they just wanted to laugh at me bombing my ass off.

I don't know. So it, it was happenstance. It was happenstance. There was no real plan. Do you remember? I think I'm sorry. Go on. No, please. I was gonna say do you remember like the sort of turning point where you were like, all right, fuck it. I'm a comedian now. And do you remember sort of like how much you had learned up until that point or like what it was that inspired you to finally go like, all right, that's what I'm doing now. Yeah, this comedian named Freddie Soto,

sadly passed away a while back. He, I was like training for the job of the comedy store called The Runner, which basically was like Mitzi, the owner's driver. And once you get that job, it's like those stories of like the curses, where the only way you can get out of the curse is to give the curse to somebody else, because if you quit as the runner and you want to be a comedian,

you're not going to be, you risk like being able to have stage time with the store, because Mitzi is going to be pissed off. So the story, they every runner and the chain of runners tells the next runner is, Mitzi only lets people that she thinks can be successful comedians be the runner. And Mitzi thinks that you have a kid. Now this has got to be bullshit. Mitzi never saw me do stand up, but you know, back then, you're just like, fuck, she saw the thing that I think could be in me. And, but the way he did it was really smart. And I had made him laugh really hard. And I'm gonna, when you're like, at a comedy club

and you make like a successful comedian laugh, it's like, it means the world. And, but yeah, I remember, man, I was pumping gas into the van and he just said to me, he's like, Duncan, you know, if you go to graduate school, it's gonna take you how long? 10 years, 12 years, I don't remember what he said. And it's gonna be so expensive.

But I think if you spent that amount of time focusing on like stand up, you might be able to have that as your job. And I just, as weird man, it's like time froze. I still remember in my head, like just a little frame of me looking at the gas pump, like whatever invisible gears behind the watch of time space turned or something, you know, like your shit. I shifted into another parallel universe at that moment. I was like, yeah, maybe I will try that. And that was the beginning of it. For me, I would say that was when I was like, okay, I'm going to go for it. But up until that point, I had, what about you? When did you shift into having a lot of people, I think, consider to be one of the coolest possible jobs.

So I actually decided very, very early on that music was going to be my job. Like I decided this one, I was like maybe 14 or 15. And at that time, I was playing guitar for like 10 hours a day and I was just Smoking like hello, Mouts are weed. So I was just like getting higher playing guitar all day and I was like this Fucking cool. I if I could just do this all the time. Maybe cool Yeah, and so I did that Then this was around the time that those like bubble-looking IMAX were coming out, you know There's ones that look like I like have the colored backs on them No exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. So my parents got one

of those and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. And internet had like internet like only got to Australia when I was like 15 years old. So, yeah, I started using this computer. I found this thing on there called Garageband and then started messing with it, and you know, just clicking around and recording, like I was basically using it as like a loop pedal. I was like recording a layer, and then I would just record another layer over it and another layer and I'd just basically like record guitar parts in. So I did that for a few years, and then I met this dude, this kid named Frosty, and he was into like nine inch nails and like all this crazy shit

I'd never heard of before and he knew how to use fruity loops And then he was like oh you should like come to this Duff with me a Duff is what we call like a side trans party in Australia They're kind of like a cool. Yeah, they just place side trans for like three days straight and everyone's on Let me just stop you there if there is That is the perfect name for a side train. The Dough Party, because that, yeah, I just that articulation, pretty much, some stuff, how you feel, and I duff, I did the fuck is this, they're opening parallel to me.

I think they call it that because like the music goes, Dough, Dough, Dough, Dough. Okay, that's good. Dough, Dough. Yeah, Dough. I think they call it that because like the music goes doof doof doof doof okay That's good Do Americans have such a hard time saying that too. It's like it's spelled D O O F But every time doof yeah, it's pronounced doof but everyone hears a like doof Anyway, so I went to this this doof and took us up for my first time and listen to Cyatrans all night and I was like, oh man this is basically like metal which is what I was super into at the time because I really liked all the like hot type metal was and like how

like technical it sounded and stuff. And then I heard Cyatrans whilst I was on acid and was like, well this is way more technical and way cleaner and like this is insane. Yeah. Had no idea like what a DJ was or what the people on stage were even doing any of that stuff. But then like on the drive home, I was like chatting with my friend and he's like, oh yeah, I know how to do that stuff.

I got like fruity loops. I've messed around with it a bit. I kind of get the concept. So I hung out with him for a bit and was just messing with FL and then from there I decided like decided maybe after a year or two of that, I found Ableton and then around that same time, I decided, fuck it, I'm gonna go to university and get a degree in audio engineering.

And then I did that. And then, sort of by the time I'd finished university, I was getting show-offers and stuff like that to play small parties around Sydney. And so that's basically how it happened, but the decision was made when I was like 15 to just get it to just do music, but like the path that it took me on was definitely not what I thought it would be. I thought I would just be in like a band or something. Thank you, FUME for supporting the DTFH and for creating an amazing technology to help break bad habits.

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something to fidget with, this is what you need. Also, it's real wood. So it's beautiful. It's got a kind of J.R.R. Tolkien look to it. You're going to feel cool using it as opposed to some of the other things you might be bringing up to your lips. Stopping is something we all put off because it's hard. Switching to Fume is easy and enjoyable and even fun. Fume has served over 100,000 customers, and that's thousands of success stories. There's no reason that can't be you. Join Fum in accelerating humanity's breakup from destructive habits by picking up the

journey pack today. Head to trifum.com and use code Duncan to save 10% off when you get the journey pack today. That's trifum.com. Use code Duncan to save an additional 10% of your order today. Thank you, Fum, and thank you so much for sending me your wonderful device. I love it. The decision was made when I was like 15 to just get it to just do music, but like the path that it took me on was definitely not what I thought it would be.

I thought I would just be in like a band or something. Wow. That didn't man. I, you know, that's what I'm talking about. Like the first time I heard, I guess it was house that my friend Bobby was a house DJ. And then the first time I heard that, I never thought, I felt the same way about it

that I feel about LSD chemists. Like I could never make that. Like I don't know who's making this. It's a mysterious thing anyway that anyone is even making it. Like you know what I mean? It's a mysterious thing. You see these records there, you know,

with a weird, just like, basic, white imprint. You know what I mean? Like, they look, some of them don't even have, like, art on them. That, you know, my friend had picked out from crates or whatever, but the people producing the music for duffs, we call them raves in the old days. Yeah, same thing, basically. They just seem like these mysterious behind the scenes people you'd never run into. At the time, they were.

Yeah, they were. Like sharing information was not normal back then. It was definitely like you hold on to you. Like when I I first started and that started to phase out pretty quickly when I started But at the time it was like you held on to your tricks. You don't share your tricks with anyone That those two or three tricks that you figured out that you do like that's that's what makes your sound And that's what makes you unique and all that kind of stuff But yeah, like around the time that I started or a little bit after, I noticed that this dude Tom Cosm

was putting tutorials on YouTube. I was like, this is crazy, this guy's fucking amazing. And then I was like, that inspired me to do it. And now it's like everyone just shared. And this is why I think electronic music has grown so quickly and so exponentially. Like everyone just shares everything, like sound samples, synth presets, like software, ideas, everything.

Yeah. And as a result, it's just grown so quickly. And I feel like that's slightly different in other communities, you know, YouTube, Stop Show and Dunkin' Your Putt. Um, it's fine. Show me your butt. Yeah, and like other communities, right? Like say, I don't know if it's like this in comedy, but in other scenes where people are very protective of their information and hold onto it, I feel like they grow a lot less quickly.

Like it takes a long time for people to sort of learn everything versus just being completely open source, basically. Like when you open source stuff, I feel like it just grows a lot faster. Sure feels good. Like, there's something that just feels delightful about throwing your shit out there and not getting all hung up on the IP. You know, there's something that just feels good about that, just naturally, like instantaneously good.

It always feels bad to have to defend or feel like you're protecting something or just sacrificing whatever that impulses to the community. It feels good. It's just cool, man. Like, but with comedy, it's a little different in the sense that,

it's jokes themselves are like, you can't share those. You know, it doesn't like, it doesn't work, but the sort of like technical aspects of it, that's like the inside-based ball talk between comedians that from the outside would probably seem incredibly mundane. You know what I'm saying? Can you give me an example of like what a,

what one of those is? Yeah, sure. Using the pause, like entry level comedians don't realize they're having a conversation with the audience. So like when you first start doing stand up, you can, maybe some of them might, I don't know, but I sure didn't.

Like you just want to tell your jokes and get laughs, but you accidentally dehumanize the audience. You don't realize you're having a conversation with the audience. That makes a lot of sense, yeah. It's like you have to say the thing and then give them a break as if they will be able to talk back, but instead it's like, they just, you give them a break, they have sorting their head about what they would say back or something or what they think, and then give them more break, they have sorting their head about what they would say about something or what they think and then give them more information, they

think, yeah, that makes sense. And you can't fake it. You actually have to like listen to them, like you're listening. So it's like a conversation, the way it, I guess it's like one side it is that the conversation you're having, you will like make a joke and then they will respond with laughter hopefully, but if you don't like, listen, not just for the laughter, but for their energy and for them,

they feel the same way anyone feels in a one-sided conversation. And so that can really like, even though your jokes could be good, if the audience has the sense that you're just robotically belting out gags, they're not going to like you as much. As if like, you know, that comes, these are the conversations you just have with comics about like experimentation and that pause and extending the pause too much or God forbid you tell a joke that you like pause too long because you're expecting laughter or

applause or some bullshit. So it's I guess you could say it's an expectationless pause. You know what I mean? Like if you're expecting this or that, they will sense that too. And so yeah, that's a, you know, you could end up in a conversation with comics just about that aspect of it for days. Anytime you see them, you go back, oh, I tried extending the pause here. That's an example of it. There's so many others. Like, like, there's so much meta stuff behind stand-up that that example of it. There's so many others. Like, like, there's so much meta stuff behind stand-up that that that would, again, I think it would be pretty like dull for people, probably.

Like, it would just feel like boring to hear us talk about like rearranging the order of jokes or like mic holding the microphone or where you put your leg at certain times or all the weird ways you can like a tallisize parts of your act. That's the conversation. We do, like, if you're not sharing that as a comedian, like you probably don't have friends. Yeah, like delivery stuff, I feel like

is definitely super important. I got a question. So I have this premise, right? Because I've thought of so many times about getting into stand up. And I would love to, but I don't know how to craft a joke out of my premise or idea. So here's an example of a premise,

and maybe you can show me how you would get from that to a joke that would make people laugh. All right, so I ordered a man-scaped razor trimmer thing and it came with like this lotion and the lotion was like a moisturizer, right? But it's for your balls, it's called like ball toner or some shit. So I put it on my balls and then the next time I went to take

a piss, I was like, oh shit, my balls are extremely smooth. So I started using that as facial moisturizer because I was, you know, thought, you know, maybe to be good for my skin on my face as well, if it's like, disco for my balls. Yeah. And then the punchline basically is that like, somebody calls me a dickhead or something

because I put dick shit on my face, I don't know. But like, how would you get from like a problem? Okay, everything outbid but the punch line is fantastic. Okay. The punch line, no, that is not gonna see like that. I get it why you would think that is the punch line, but I think the way you just told that story is funny.

Like it's really funny too. And lots of us would think that. You know what I mean? That you could, like when I look at my balls, until just now, I never even thought there was hope. You know what I mean? Like I've never looked at my balls and thought I'm gonna make these look better.

Like ever. Like there's no makeup for balls that I'm aware of. You know what I mean? No like eye shadow or blush or concealer for balls. So if I were trying to write a joke about this, this is a story. That's the main about this, this is a story. That's the main thing. This is a story.

That's what you want. Stories. This is the story of the time you put ball toner on your face. And so what I would do is every single thing I just said, I would try to flesh out every single aspect of it that is notable or funny. You know what I mean? So that within the story, I could make commentary

on lots of different things, specifically that guys are concerned with the way their balls look. You know what I mean? Which is something for me, I have one ball. Really? So for me, like yeah, I have one ball. So for me, like, yeah, I have one ball, it has secular cancers.

So for me, I've given up on my balls. Ball. You know what I mean? I never thought my balls when I had to look good. I don't think they look good now. And the idea that people are putting toner on their balls, that is a, that's a entry way into lots of observational comedy, just about society as a whole. So at the end, you don't really aim to get to a punchline. You just kind of, oh no, you

got to get the punchline. We're just not there. Oh, gochya, gochya. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, you're just throwing out a wide, wide net. And you are trying to discover, what am I really saying here? Like, what is this that I'm saying? Like, what, the punchline, you need to have lots of punchlines in a story. That's the other thing. It's like, the final punchline just needs to be funnier

than all the previous punchlines. You know what I mean? Like, you can't follow a super funny punchline in a story with a weak punchline. I've made that mistake many times. I've had to abandon jokes because the beginning of this story was funnier than the end of the story, or just cut them in half.

So that's sort of the map that you want to create. And in that kind of cartography, probably a punchline will emerge. We don't know what it is yet, because it would require like lots of sort of... Like fleshing it all up. And then say, sometimes I'll just walk around just saying the story to myself like a lunatic. You know what I mean? And then suddenly my brain will spit out what could be a punchline. Now it probably isn't because this is where it dies. This is where comedy becomes the thing of its own. You got to get in front of people now and

say that joke that you just fleshed out with whatever you think the punchline is and in that form of kind of interrogation of the material you will discover hopefully something but that's a joke evolves over multiple shows. You know what I mean? You will whatever you think the punchline is of your joke, many times will not be the punchline. It will transform into something completely different. Via editing, bombing, then editing, doing good, then realizing like fuck,

sometimes it's like just inflection. It's so weird. It's so weird. It's so weird. And so that's like, that's why in between specials, you have to spend a year out there developing these fucking things until like you've discovered what it is. But I think the premise is wonderful

and I think the way you delivered it is great in this kind of deadpan way. But I think that, uh, yeah, that's the problem with standup. You just got to get on stage. Yeah, also like finding a style and stuff. I'm curious though, during this like, flashing out period, uh, to find all of the things that are like little punchlines and like all of the things that you can like dig right into to get the most out of the story,

are you doing this this in a text document or writing it on a note pad or are you just sort of doing this in your head? Yeah. Well, it depends. Everyone has their own way of doing it. Some people, the best way to do it is to record and listen back to your material,

which I don't like that. I don't like that so much. Well, part of, I think, the nothing at a joke is that it's like unexpected, right? And like something, you don't expect what the next thing's gonna be, but it's kind of funnier than what you could have possibly thought of in like two seconds, right? So it's kind of, I think that would be difficult because it's none of it

would be unexpected, right? Well, you weren't see that as a thing, is like that's the, when they talk about comedians finding their voice or whatever, really, all you've discovered is that you don't need to act like somebody else. That you've been, it really is like the classic spiritual parable of the,

you know, person who doesn't know they have like an emerald or a diamond sewn into their clothes. And, you know, they've been walking around with the treasure the whole time. They've been looking for the treasure with standup. It's kind of like that. It's like, there's just too much latency involved in taking on a persona. it creates just enough latency to not do great. Like what latency are you talking about? Like what are you made by latency? Latency, what I mean is like, if I'm on stage and I'm thinking about the next thing I'm going to say, or what is coming, then that means I'm not in the moment with the audience. So that is going to trigger and then the same thing when you're talking to somebody and

you know as a podcaster that feeling, when you realize like they're thinking about what they're about to say, they're not here right now. And the audience, no one likes that feeling. So, so when each time I'm on stage and I'm up at my head regarding this or that, whatever it may be, that's a bad sign. That's latency. It's creating an infinitesimally small like error in timing, because I'm not fully there. So you have to find a way to be fully there in the moment while telling jokes that you've told many, many times before, so that for everyone it feels new. That's sort of the, that's, you only get that from the process, from going on stage, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and then that starts emerging.

Like you start learning how to do that. If you want to do stand up, you just do it. Like that's all there is to it. Like you don't, because nothing about it makes sense. And nothing in you is going to, if you're a mildly sane, healthy person, you should have infinite reasons to not get in front of a group of strangers and try to make them laugh. Because it's fucking terrifying. You know what I mean? You'll probably get rejected. It's a confusing

situation that you can only learn from repetition. There's all these reasons that your mind will present to you of why generally the procrastination is what keeps people from going on stage and they don't even realize they're procrastinating, but they are because they're writing. So a lot of comedians fall into this terrible trap. A lot of people who want to be comedians, which is they will fill notebooks up with jokes. And thinking at some point, I'm going to write the perfect joke. And that way, when I get on stage, I'll be safe. And that, that is just never going to happen because the joke, you't write a perfect stand-up joke. You have to grow it.

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I feel like I would want to get at least like a least like a two at least like a two to four minute like decent like at least like some sort of direction with it. You know, not just go up like with what I got currently without thinking about it. You got a direction. You have a pretty good ball tone or joke. Yeah, true. So that's enough. And also the other thing is everyone has a story. Like you just all you need to do is think about the story you've told your friends multiple times that they pretend you haven't told them multiple times because they know you like telling it.

Right. That's your joke. You know what I mean? And then go with that because you've already worked it out in front of your friends via multiple ear beatings. So start with that, you know, the guy who got, who Freddie, the guy was starting my earlier, man, like he gave me the only bit of comedy advice that I think is worthy, because other than get on stage, which is for the first year of standup, don't

worry about being funny, worry about being comfortable on stage. I'm, I think I'm already comfortable on stage because I've been on stage a lot, like not doing comedy, but I've been on stage in front of lots of people, lots of times. And I don't think, and actually not only for DJing, like I've taught a lot, right?

So I've taught a lot of classes to like, 50 or 100 people, but I'm just talking about Ableton, but I'm like pretty comfortable with that. Do you think it's like not even comparable or is it like somewhat similar? No, comparable. I think that's an advantage.

It isn't the reason that, you know, for one, like man, like when I watch you guys, do your thing up there when it's real, you know? And like the amount of plates that are spinning, the amount of things that could theoretically go horrifically awry. It's shocking to me. It's shocking. Like how are you doing that?

It's a lot of preparation. How are you doing? Like right now, for instance, I'm building my set for Loslands, which is this big festival in Ohio that's thrown by Exision. And it's like a 40,000 person festival, I'm really stoked to be playing it. And it's on September 22nd,

and I've been preparing for it already for like a month. So it's like, basically what I'll do, is I'll get like a big able to in session. I'll put every track in it that I want to play. Actually, you saw that video that I posted yesterday that Cotton Candy asshole. Yes, thank you by the way. Yeah, so you could see how it was like a bunch of like stuff

edited together to make that. That's basically like how I make an entire hour set. So it's just a giant able to session that sort of starts up the top left corner and just works its way down this way and like edit stuff all together and and then I'll like kind of render it out as like multi tracks almost and then when I'm playing it's really just about hitting the cues on time and just remember what goes where. I feel like the less less but less can go wrong there because it's so pre-plan. No! Are you kidding? Everything can go fucking wrong.

There's nothing more jarring in like obscene, especially like a festival of note. Then when a DJ fucks up, like that's like crits crits. Like the whole festival slams into a wall or something. You know, it's like crazy. You can't believe it. You're shocked.

What the fuck? At the end of the day, though, you have to get comfortable with just being at the whim of technology. And I mean, it's sometimes shit fucks up and there's nothing you can do about it. And I don't know. I try to just worry about the shit I can control, which is why I start preparing really long in advance and then just go right. So for the best, everything might fuck up,

but whatever. That's it. What you just said is it. That's it. That's the energy to go on stage with that. You know, you're excited, you've prepared, but also you've surrendered to the reality of chaos. And that's where I think you will feel comfortable up there. I think something we, having common sort of, is that I feel like there's like people who think

not everybody should podcast, not everybody should do stand up, not everybody should do music, not everyone should try to publish or get in front of people. I just, I feel not everyone should try to publish or get in front of people. I just, I feel like everyone should, everyone should, to do, like, at least make the attempt. Because there's something so, like, you already win. I mean, with, I'm a stand up or I imagine being a DJ or a musician, like if you've overcome the maybe genetic terror involved in getting in front of your tribe and like potentially being rejected, you've already won.

Like you've already overcome something that keeps so many people inside, you know? So I feel like it's an automatic win. It's great. And yeah, I think you should do, if you, anyone listening, if you feel compelled to do stand up, just do it. Like, yeah, maybe I'm gonna go all out to try and do it by like the end of this year or something.

Maybe I'm, you know, man, I'm gonna be an asshole here. I'll tell you what you do. You don't do end of the year, that's ridiculous. What you do is you find out where the open mic is and there's plenty in Atlanta. I could definitely figure out and people listening to this will tell you from Atlanta where to go. And they'll want you to go there probably

because that will be bad-ass to have you to your first stand-up set at their show. And you just go. And you get on stage and you tell whatever you think five minutes of jokes looks like and that's it. And you don't think about it. It's like jumping in cold water. The more you think about it, the less likely you are to do it. You just do it. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. That's the only way to do it. Otherwise, you'll never do it. Because the end of the year, you'll block a eye and do that, and then you'll never do it. So I would say by the end of next week,

you should make it your goal. Or whenever this comes out, people will reach out to you, I'm sure, from a land. Yeah, if someone from a land is listening and sends me a link to a stand-up, not all, I'll try, yeah, I'll go. I'll just do it. You just go.

You just go. And then, yeah. And you'll be so glad you did. Like, even if it doesn't go well, and why would it go perfectly? Right. And this is a thing people spend decades learning how to do. So why would it go, so the wait's off of you anyway. It's like, what?

You're going to get out there and be richer, prior? Yeah, yeah. Like, you don't even know. But if you can just get out there and be there in the moment, that's pretty fucking cool, man. And also, and then you'll have this interesting parallel. Like you'll, you know what I mean?

Like you'll have this way of like comparing that world and the world of stand up. Yeah, I feel like if you have the skill of both farming crowd reactions from an EDM crowd and farming laughs from like a comedy audience and you somehow combine those that would be probably pretty top tier. All right, well, let me ask you this, when you are in front of 40,000 people, I'm going to be playing the second stage.

So I'll be probably in front of like 5,000 or something. Oh, just 5,000. Okay, so you're only in front of 5,000 people. Do you feel them? Do you feel their energy? Yeah, totally. And you very much feel it when they're not, well, not that they're not interested, but you feel it when, so I don't know, there's like the weird

thing about music is you can be enjoying it to like the fullest amount that you possibly join music to and experiencing no outward reaction at all, right? And this is like, obviously what would probably happen to something like down tempo, like I.D.M. Glitchy, Ambience stuff. And I find it really hard to play those sets for this reason because it's like really hard to tell whether or not people are enjoying it. So my goal usually is to just like farm outward

like expressive reactions from people by just doing like the heaviest shit and make it really expected and formatted to a point where like, because there's like a level of trust, I feel like that goes on in a DJ set where it's like, you know after I signal this, that something really cool is going to happen, and you teach them that in like the first 10 minutes,

and then they kind of know that that's going to happen for the rest of it. And then like once you like 30 minutes into it, then you can start to start to fuck with that format and be like, right, I'm signaling that this is going to happen, but then there's like a fake out or like something weird. Yeah. That's it, you got it. So there you go, that's it.

You do understand it, that's it. That's it. It's like, you're basically trying to like harmonize everyone. Like you're tuning them in to a specific frequency and there's a tangible feeling, which is, I don't know. Like, it feels like when you're pushing a balloon or something, there's some kind of expansive, very, very barely there, something that you're, there's a push and pull happening between you and the audience.

You can feel that, you feel it. And I don't know what that is. But you know, underneath the jokes and then stand up, like there's this wonderful feeling that you, you, you, almost like's this wonderful feeling that you, you know, almost like a membrane or something that you're like tickling or pushing against or working with. That's how you know it's going right is if you feel that. When the bubble pops and you don't feel that, something's off, man, the connection is broken. There's no you haven't done the job. You haven't tuned in and So once you know that if you know that feeling

Then yeah, I think you could do you could pull off you I feel like I can definitely feel when people are like engaged And when I feel like they're getting bored and I know when they feel like they're getting bored because I feel like I'm getting bored Like sometimes I'll build a set and I'll be like, oh yeah, I want to indulge in myself for a second, because this is a new tune and play out this like fucking 64 bar techno bit or something. And I'll do it live. And then I'll be like, this is actually just self-indulgent.

I'm bored, no one's enjoying it. It's the worst I've done in every comic is done, and you go through a self-indulant as you're learning how to do it inevitably And this is a not a sand trap and I imagine it happens with music producers the sand trap is You can mince yourself that it's like artistically sophisticated. Yeah, exactly You feel you're being so fucking sophisticated, but really the reality is At least in the stand-up it is

So much easier to not write jokes. It's so much easier to just sort of like, I don't know, like grandstand or like, you know, tell some half-ass, unthought-out thing or and imagine, like, ah, this is like Hicks, or you know what I mean? This is like, it's like, no, you're not fucking Bill Hicks. You're you, and they don't like what you're saying, because they're not laughing. And I only, though, reason I'm not, that is not a critique of anyone other than me,

because I've done that, and it does not feel good, man. It does not feel good. Yeah, I've done that and it is not feel good man. It is not feel good. Yeah, I've done the same shit and like I've had the same thought to where I'm like, oh, it's just too intelligent for them or I just want to play out this extra little bit of shit because that's what I that's my artistic choice or like whatever. But it's like at the end of the day, you have to recognize that you're playing at a fucking party and the goal of everyone coming is to like go off and have a good party and the goal of everyone coming is to like, go off and have a good time.

And the goal of you as a DJ should be to also enjoy yourself obviously and make that like facilitate that. And yeah, same with the comedy show, right? It's like you could, you could go in there with the thought that this is like some sophisticated like technical story. I'm teaching them like about comedy in this weird esteric way. Or you could just be like, the idea here is to farm

fucking laughs out of these people. And that's what they came here to do. That's what I'm here to make them do. Yeah, exactly. No brainer. Don't you? You know, unless you have a legitimate artistic impulse to aggressively upset your audience, unless that is truly your calling. And like there are examples of this Andy Kaufman being the classic. I heard one of his acts. He would go on stage, assemble a drum set in front of the audience, not talking.

He's forcing this audience to watch him assemble a drum set. And I don't think he was like doing like physical comedy while he's Not talking. He's forcing this audience to watch him assemble a drum set. And I don't think he was like doing like physical comedy while he set it up. You know what I mean? He was like seriously trying to assemble a drum set. And then finally it's assembled. And the next part of his act is he disassembles the drum set. And gets off stage.

But that's um, that's, he was wanting to invoke an awkward, frustrated energy. And in that case, it's good. That's his expression, that's conceptual comedy. Was this guy previously before doing that, like a stand-up comedy who would just do normal jokes and stuff No, he's like one of the like with the idea that they're gonna see a comedy show or I'm so you you're not familiar with any coffee. No, I'm not oh my god. I'm so excited for you. Oh my god

he was the original troll and He was Andy Copp and he was on taxi like here's our hardcore this guy was Wally was on taxi What is what is that hit? Hitcho he was on this hit show Wally was on this hit show when you when it meant something to be on a TV show when it was like like if you were on a TV show Holy fuck man these days. It like like if you were on a TV show holy fuck man these days it's like it has less of a less meaning those some he was a

bus boy so like he had a job a side job as a bus boy while he was on this like hit show and he was doing that as a form of like I don't know what but I like to fantasize it was like a kind of like act, you know? He got into wrestling. He would wrestle women on stage. Like he would antagonize like by getting into wrestling, he would take on this persona of like a Hollywood snob in front of like wrestling fans and shoot these hilarious videos and

Taganizing them like in front of his pool like I'm not hearing Forney law you people wouldn't even understand what this life is like just to create a you know to be a villain you would commit fully to all of these gags almost to the point where some people wondered if he was like all there mentally because he was so engaged in like doing this that it was confusing for people. Yeah. And so I'm just saying there's for every rule in comedy you need a punchline. You got to do this or that. There's examples of people successfully breaking that rule and that's what's so beautiful about it, is it's like, and frustrating for people, is that it's like, it's a very slippery fish,

and it will not be, it will not allow you to shove it into some grid of rules. Like, you could try, maybe it'll work for you to shove it into a grid of rules. Like you could, you could try. Maybe it'll work for you to shove it into a grid of rules. I just was giving you rules. But also, you've got a lot of rules before you can break them as well. You know, it's like there's always an exception to the rule, right? Like there's people out there who can go and play down tempo sets and, you know, 10,000 people come out to see them like Tipper, but he's definitely the exception. And he also, like, never posts on social media. And, like, you could look at his career and be like,

I'm never gonna post on social media and I'm gonna do down tempo sets. And that's what Tipper did and he's massive. It's like, yeah, but it's fucking Tipper. Like, no one else in the history of electronic music has done that strategy and, like, how to work out for me. Yeah.

And, you know, I think that is, like, the trick. Liberate yourself, free yourself of trying to be someone else. There are, we got, we got Tipper. It's, he's incredible. We have our Tipper. We don't need another Tipper. We need a you, whatever it is you do.

That's what we need. We need you, not you, imitating someone. Though, initially, like, you know, imitating someone, we all do it. You're gonna do that. You're gonna be influenced by someone and that's gonna sort of define the way that you like construct your initial, like, set or whatever it is that you're doing, you know,

but then over time, all that stuff falls away because all you have left is you and that that's where it gets great that's where it gets wonderful. Maybe that's a little scary because if you come out as yourself and that is rejected then you can't be like, well I was trying to be someone else who rejected me. That's you. Yeah, it's a little tougher if you're actually trying to do something and fail at it, but it's just been like, I fuck it, I wasn't trying or whatever. Yeah, yeah. This episode of the DTFH is sponsored by Better Help. My friends, we've got aliens, we've got global conflict, we've got a tumultuously bizarre zeitgeist right now.

And if there ever was a time in human history where therapy made sense, it's got to be right now. I've benefited from therapy, it has changed my life and I love it. I don't feel ashamed of it. I don't know why some people think it's somehow weird to talk to a professional about whatever happens to be causing you to have a little bit of a limp in your life or maybe a lot of a limp. It's the best thing ever, and it works. It works for me, and I bet it'll work for you. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible,

and suited to your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. You can switch therapists anytime at no additional charge. You only have to drive to an office. You can do it from the comfort and safety of your own home. Find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Duncan today to get 10% off your first month. That's better help Yeah, it's a little, little tougher if you like actually trying to do something and fail

at it, but it's just feeling like I fuck it, I wasn't trying or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And okay, now, and I love that we're talking about comedy. It's ridiculous. Your fans are like so mad right now. I wanna ask you something, and sorry if this just sounds so bizarre, but do you ever like when you're working on stuff,

you ever creep yourself out? Like your music isn't creepy, but I mean, this, initially we were talking about the chaos factor, the random factor, the discovery of something. Do you ever have like moments of like, I don't know, like feeling like you've connected with something else other than you or that something is coming through you

or you know what I mean, a sense of, I'm just saying sometimes that I'm fiddling around with my modular synthesizers. Like every once in a while, they'll just start making sounds that I didn't intend. And it's not a bad form of being creeped out, but it is a sense of like, or like the same feeling I get

when I'm thinking about a friend and they call me, a feeling of like, shit man, I just kind of stepped outside a default reality here, like something else is in the room. So one thing that happens to me like, really often, like this happens about like at least once a month, is I get like incredibly deep deja vu, whilst working on music, like I just feel like I've done this exact thing before, and it is because I've done this exact thing before, but I don't know, it just gives me like really heavy deja vu, whilst working on music. Like I just feel like I've done this exact thing before and it is because I've done this exact thing before, but I don't know, it just gives me like really heavy deja vu. And yeah, every now and then I'll have these feelings

where I'm like, yeah, where something happens and it just works really well and everything's falling into place and I'm just like, fuck, yeah, this is, like just work, like I don't really feel like I'm trying here, you know, like it's just happening. I definitely have that sometimes, but I never really question how that much to be honest, like whenever I'm sort of in the zone work and like that, I'm just like music, music, music, like it's not really,

I'm not thinking about a lot of stuff. And honestly, that is like, in my opinion, like the pinnacle of human experience is like when you're just fully engaged in something and you're not compelled at all to think about anything else outside of that thing, like when you're just entirely 100% focused in the moment on one thing, I fucking love shit like that and that's why I fell in love I think so much with mountain biking because you have to be exactly 100% in the moment, like the cost of not is large. Okay, let's talk about it,

because what I know exactly what you're talking about, and I remember the first time I felt it, years and years and years ago, trying to make something with my computer, and I remember looking up and realizing like six hours had passed. And I wasn't there. Like I was just making this thing. But I whatever I thought of my as me was gone. And for some reason, maybe this is a difference between you and me, that didn't feel good. It was a little scary.

It was like I had been pulled into some kind of weird creative gravity well that I couldn't get out of for six hours. I didn't want to get out of, but I was gone. And now when I get that feeling, I like it. And I am in love with that feeling. But there's still something disconcerting about it. What is it that's disconcerting about being that focused and that into something? I mean, it could just be a personal neurosis. Like, I don't think it's

bad. But maybe it's because it's like death. Is it like the loss of control, maybe? Where you like, I didn't have the choice really to be like that driven into this thing for six hours and that bothers me that I like maybe couldn't have pulled myself away from it. Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe, because sometimes when I know I'm about to start working on a song for the podcast,

when I know I'm about to start writing, when I know I'm about to start writing, when I know I'm about to start working on something. I have this moment of like, if you start this, you're gonna look up in a bunch of hours have passed. And I'll try to trick myself, like no, no, no, this is just gonna be some stupid little jingle or some shit that is meaningless. And I'll know, no, no, you shit that is meaningless.

And I'll know, no, you know that never happens. You know that that's gonna lead to something else, it leads to something else, it leads to something else, it leads to watching one of your YouTube tutorials that leads to, you know what I mean? A research mission that leads to this and that and that. And there's something about that that's just, I don't know, man, it's a little bit like

when you push your raft into the what rapids or something, you know what I mean? Like you're gonna have to go down a river, man. That's my favorite thing to do, man. That's literally my favorite thing in the world. And that's why I try to do every day if I can. Like if I'm doing some boring shit like emails or whatever, it's whatever, I don't really enjoy that

too much, but it's part of the job. But yeah, that's my favorite thing to do is go like, all right, I'm gonna do this thing and just like see where I end up and then I'll just do that all day until I basically got no energy left and decided I need to go to sleep and have just been through like some aggressive like a traverse of software and the internet

and then come out the other way. It's madness. It might be a piece of art or something. Yeah, it kind of is. Now, if you put it that way, but, I mean, yeah, I haven't found any experience in life that is better than that. You know, like, I get it. I get it also with, like, Lego.

Like if I sit down to do a Lego set or something. And I'm just, you know, so focused on getting this thing finished and then two or three hours later I got this thing and I'll go like, all right, it's done and then think about it and you're like, fuck I was like super like into that thing for just many, many hours. It's like the opposite of boredom basically. But it's there, don't you think there's something annihilatory about it? In what way? What are you annihilating? You're gone. Like, you're not there anymore. Like you're gone.

Like you, I mean you by most standard definitions of you. Like in that intense focus, there isn't room for self-reflection. There isn't room for the story of your life, or your worries, or this or that, or all the things that people use to define themselves as a thing. It's gone.

It's like there's a kind of beautiful oblivion or something in it. Yeah, it's like some ignorance is bliss type stuff or something, but I mean, I don't know. So West Duck in this human condition, Yeah, it's like some ignorance is bliss type stuff or something, but I mean, I don't know so West stuck in this human condition. There's no getting out of it unless you kill yourself We have a bunch of hours to use up in whatever we choose and hopefully we do it without hurting anybody and

Hopefully we enjoy them. So I mean if you enjoy that amount of hours, you aren't hurting anyone doing it, or no one's losing anything because of you doing it. And in fact, I mean, a lot of the times they gain something, right? Like, if you go super deep on a joke or whatever, and at the other end comes out a podcast or a joke that gets put in a stand-up routine. I don't see anything negative about any of that.

I don't see anything negative about it at all. I mean, again, we wouldn't be doing what we do if we saw anything negative about it, but I just find it to be somehow an easily overlooked state of consciousness. You know what I mean? It's like to because the sort of a bit like if you're in that state and you're thinking about the state, you're not in the state. You know, you're out of the state because you're thinking about the state. Like it's a it's a singularity or something. You know, you can't get data out of a out of a black hole. You can't it's something else, which is, and I think it's a mystical state.

And I like that you have a very simple way of describing what you do. But for those of us on the other side, listening to your music when our faces are melting and we're like, oh, there's that sound. What he's made the sound I hear on 200 micrograms of acid. You know what I mean? There's that sound where you're like, oh, I remember that sound. I know what that is. And so, you know, maybe we just project on your music. I think so because it's like that old Japanese cone of like, if a tree falls in the woods

and no one's around to hear it doesn't make a sound. You know, music exists in the brain. It doesn't exist anywhere else, you know. So, and you can prove that because like sound, like physical sound as a wavefront exists, like regardless of humans, and like white noise, playing at 100 decibels, or the sound of an aeroplane or a lawnmower, they're all the same thing as music, right? There's sounds, they're just wave fronts of pressure that get hit by our ears and then transferred into our brain as information.

But some of it we pass as like, that's a lawnmower or that's a plane or that's my cat meowing or something. But some of it we pass is like, this is some like romantic, incredible, like insane thing that's making me feel an emotion right now. Yeah. And yeah. So I don't know, like I don't really attribute the anything to the music so much. It's definitely a interpersonal experience.

I actually made a whole album about this called Apaphenia because I was thinking about making a concept album. I thought about it for months and I was like, what should I call this album? What's the meaning of all of this? At the end of the day, I was like, fuck it, man, people are gonna listen to it, they're gonna have their own experience with it, they're gonna think I meant whatever I meant. Like, they're gonna make up their own shit about it, basically.

So I was just like, fuck it, I was just calling it Apaphania, which is basically humans, you know, making. Apaphania is like where you make unrelated, sorry, where you make connections between just completely unrelated things. Like, you know, for instance, Jim Kerry in that movie, number 23 or whatever, or when you look at like an exhaust pipe of a car and see a face in it or whatever, you know, like that kind of stuff.

The Shining movie, that documentary on the Shining, there's some apophemia happening with the Shining, which is there's so many people who have all these different, who see all these different things within it that might be there or might not be there. But I mean, this is like apaphemia is what brings one's sense of self into existence. Like we literally have existential apaphemia. If you exist as a person person to exist as a person, you have to pick inf, like out of the infinite number of

experiences any human has had by a certain age, you pick out an infinitely, it's not infinitely, but a terribly small percentage of those experiences. And that's you. That's what you say you are. You've forgotten all the, you've, you remember the've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you you've you've you've you've you've you've you've you you just instantly weave that together into a sense of self. Yeah, I mean, making connections between things is obviously really important for survival. Like, we need to remember where the berries are and remember if they're black, they're bad, and if they're red, they're good, or whatever. So that's like all stuff that we need to do, but I think that seeps over into other things like art, where, or, you know, numbers, numerology, like all this kind of stuff. Where we stare out. Yeah, exactly where

we stop being like, all right, this reminds me of this and that connects this and that and like, it's the evolution thing that like your brain's supposed to do so you stay alive, but it's like just connecting to all this other shit and people are playing into it. I don't know, maybe not. I mean after actually, I think it was after- You're not so you're basically saying you're not channeling black holes. Is that what you're saying? Like in the memoir I'm like, shit is he tuning into some kind of mother fucking like a ripple in time space? What is this like dear? You're tuning into black holes, right? I guess you could say that.

The, I wanna ask you, do you have a little bit more time we already have? Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah as long as you want. I wanna ask you about base, like, ask you about bass. Like, what? Why to me? Like, I don't know, are you familiar with the band Om? It's kind of like sledge sledge. Is it metal? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's real simple, but the bass, like something about the simplicity and the base itself, produces like this mystical resonance or something that I don't really experience with other forms of music that I love.

Like, there's something about that that is completely unique, experientially. And I'm just wondering, do you have any theories on that? If you spent much time thinking about that, I mean, contemplating like the, like why base drones, wobbles, warps at a certain frequency bass, drones, wobbles, warps, and a certain frequency hits or? Yeah, so there's a few reasons. The first reason is because it is just a big away front. Like if you play like a really high frequency, like 20,000 kilohertz, whatever,

it's like this minuscule fucking thing that's like vibrating really small in the air and travels like extremely quickly, right? But it's based like 30 hertz, right? A 30 hertz sine wave or a 30 hertz subfrequency. It, first of all, it takes about like 20 meters for that just to propagate in one full cycle. So like, you know when you see a like a sine wave right like a up and yeah

That like 30 hertz just to complete one cycle takes like 12 meters or something So it's just this massive like wave front this massive like pressure front That yeah bodies just reacts strangely to because I guess that yeah, bodies just react strangely to it, because I guess in the past, or like, you know, historically, anything that's like, putting out that much pressure is obviously probably gonna be massive, like a dinosaur or something or a giant tree falling and hitting the ground,

like the only things that output. Me or? Yeah, exactly. So I think like, by default, it's just built into us for our bodies to just like kind of cringe at that and be like, what the fuck's going on here? So I think a base has that effect, especially when you're at a show with like a fucking giant

sound system and it's just putting out like all the way down to 20 hertz and not only that, but you're also standing 50 meters away from it. So you're copying like the whole thing. I think like at that point, your brain just starts to do back flips and go like, fuck something's crazy is going on right now. Well, you know, I'd have to look it up,

but it's one of the theories on haunted houses. Have you ever seen that? It's a theory. There's like cool theories on like, like the experience of haunted house. One of them is like, I think carbon monoxideoxide like they found like the houses that people say are haunted have like carbon monoxide in them and it like Your poor body is just like the way it's trying to art. It's like okay Like I don't know how to tell this asshole that they're breathing poison

So let's just make them think there's a ghost here. Yeah, stop showing them like weird images. So they get scared and run away. Yeah, and the other theory is that some of these houses like have like super low frequencies for whatever reason moving through them and that those low frequencies are creeping people out. That there's a somehow like a deep, deep, whoa, that might be inaudible,

but that is affecting them. If you go into Ableton and you have really, really good speakers and you go into the preferences, you can turn on a test tone and it just puts out a sine wave at whatever frequency you want, at whatever level you want. And if you put that down to like 20 hertz and you turn it up a lot, it does feel really weird if you're sitting in front of it for a while.

Yeah, yeah, it's like that's what I'm saying, man. Like there's something about it that like that is, that just compared to other frequencies of music as a kind of sinister or heavy or powerful, I don't know whatever, I don't mean to paint it as bad because I love it. Yeah, it's just like happy. Like a lot of sodas, yeah, it makes,

that's the feeling I get from it. It's just like, so what the fuck kind of feeling? Yeah, that's the feeling I get from it. It's just like, so what the fuck kind of feeling? Okay, so last thing I wanted to ask you out. And again, man, I'm sorry, you know, like so many comedians love music and we're infatuated with musicians and we just get caught by it.

So I'm sorry. I love chatting with you, man. Like anything you wanna ask ask and it's like literally Thank you text me whenever you got questions like I'm always happy to hear from you and actually dude One of my friends hit me up recently and he sent me a photo of Someone in an airport and he was like is this Duncan and I was like, yeah, I think it is and he was like Oh cool, and I was like you should say hi to him. Is a nice guy. Did he say hi to you? He said he didn't.

And he said, he said he'll hit you off whatever. Was he lying to me? Because he definitely was like, it was definitely you. I don't remember. I don't remember. But yeah, I hope he did say hi. God, that would suck if he didn't. Yeah, it was a good one.

I'm gonna do. Get the fuck away from him. He was literally, I'm gonna do it. Let me see if I can find it and show it to you. And you can maybe confirm if it was you. I'll tell you where I was at. Okay, one sec, it's like, you see.

Yeah, dude, it's literally you. Ah, fuck, you can barely see that here, hold on. Tags, it's a V. Yeah, yeah, how well, all right, yeah. Here we go, let's see, better be me. I'm like almost certain, if it's not, it looks like you can. The last thing I need is a doppelganger.

It looks very much like you. Let me see. All right, just texted it. Yeah, just texted it to you. No, that's Brad Pitt. I'm just kidding, hang on, let me like, no, I think that's some kind of supermodel. Hold on. Let me look a little closer here. Hold on.

I'm going through yet because I have my phone in there playing over here. That's me. It is you. Yeah, that's definitely me. Yeah. So for sure. And he didn't say hi to you. What a company said he did. He may have. I might not remember it. His name was my. He had a really weak shitty memory. Meet me too. And I think it's got to do with the fact that like when you meet so many people, it's just you can't hang on to them all. Or your brain, like if you meet someone in passing like that,

it's like your brain just immediately goes like, that's not really important information. I'm not going to take up bandwidth for that. I have a fantasy that there's people who go to an airport and they aren't freaked out. Like, I have this fantasy they exist. There's people who on the way to the airport feel great, in the airport feel great, getting on the plane feel great. All the way through, there isn't within them a kind of cyclone of anxiety. I am not one of those people. I don't know what it is, maybe it's my parents. You know, I don't know if your parents freaked out in the airport.

My parents did. They were always in a hurry. But I hate it. I hate the airport experience. So probably whatever part of my brain might normally remember meeting your friend was gone. As I'm just sort of like hoping I get on the fucking plane. And the plane doesn't have any experience. So I'm just like, I friend was gone as I'm just sort of like hoping I get on the fucking plane and

The plane doesn't get delayed and I'm able to get to my show and time but yeah, I told him like for if I like he He was like no, no, I'm not gonna say hi, and I was like dude. You got to say hi to Duncan He's like the nicest guy and he's like nah, I don't want to bother him, and I was like trust me, dude He's like the most open guy like you, you guys could see the picture he sent. I'm definitely not busy. Yeah, I'm like looking at Instagram. Okay, here's my question for you. DJ or music producer, DJ, whatever you want to call it,

as mouthpiece of the underground or the culture of the underground. In other words, like sometimes when I'm at a good show, what did you call them? Duffs? Duffs sell like raves. Raves, sometimes when, and it's been a while, I got kids now, so it's not like I'm going to raves all the damn time.

Burning man, whatever. damn time. Burning man, whatever. There's a feeling that the DJ is voicing this aesthetic that is underground, if that makes sense. That coming out of the speakers is some kind of sound or, you know, or lyrics or whatever that is articulating a specific moment that's happening in whatever the reality tunnel that I would think of as the underground. And in the sense, the non-not-gen pop, not, it has yet to be co-opted by a brand. That it is a, there's a purity to this. And I hear that in your music sometimes and again, I'm fine with this, these are my own projections.

But what about that? Do you, like, do you feel like that? Do you feel like sometimes you're voicing a sort of secret consensus? I don't mean like some deep philosophical message or anything like that, but just a general aesthetic that maybe a lot of people aren't even aware of where it exists.

Yeah, so I think like a lot of producers, including myself, we try to ride the line between stuff that is like already very accepted in pop music, like the same kind of structures, the same kind of melodic routine, the same sort of rhythms, all of that kind of stuff. But we try to ride the line as to like how experimental and unhinged we can get with it, whilst still having a B music that could, like anyone can understand, you know. And I feel like that's kind of what, like, underground stuff is. It's like, how far you can go to the edge without it being, like, just noise or whatever,

or crazy shit. And especially in a DJ set, I mean, it kind of is, like, people are trying to dig for, like, the rare dub plates and shit all the time. So it kind of is underground, you know, like you're trying to put together basically an hour of stuff that people haven't really heard, but it's like that they're gonna accept because it follows all the norms and structures

that regular music does, but has these kind of like twists and turns you wouldn't expect within it. So yeah, no, I don't think like I personally don't consciously do that, but what I do consciously do is like sit there and listen to stuff and be like, is this lame, is this cool, how do I feel about this? And like think about how I feel about stuff a lot. And I feel like just the stuff that I generally gravitate towards potentially maybe just has that sound to it to some degree. But yeah, it's definitely I think a mixture of things and

Yeah, generally though for me, I'm always trying to sort of ride the line between like what is popular and what is like Like what I think is really cool Amazing Bill I love podcasts and with you man, and I got to say and obviously you did not ask me to do this. Man, your tutorials have helped me so much. They really demystify stuff that I was imagining was like over, like way outside of my pay grade.

You know, but I know Ableton, like I've been using Ableton for years. I'm not saying that it's not, like you need to not use Ableton and stuff, but I just want people to know if you're interested in making this kind of music, that you're an incredible resource man. And you're giving out so much free stuff,

like just free tutorials and stuff, but I'm interested. I was gonna like secretly sign up for one of your, like one of the classes you put out. Oh, I'll give you access, man. Like if you make... Ah, no, no, no, if I do it, you'll never know. I don't want you to do that, but I'm curious,

what you would recommend is like the best way, because you have so much at this point, I was like going through it trying to figure out, where do I need to start? Okay, so I have a website, the website is MrBillsTunes.com, and I've had it for like 10 years, and I've basically been updating it pretty regularly with tutorials and courses and sample packs

and project files and stuff like that, and they all have sort of different uses, but I think if you're like, if you're just starting, the best place to begin is by watching probably my latest series, which is the Artemis to Bill season five. So there's four of these, and each one of them goes for like 30 or 40 hours, but they're broken up into short videos. Sorry to cut you out. They don't build on each other because that was my confusion. It's like, do I need to... Okay. Yeah, so I start from from scratch and then over that 35 hours, I build a song. Oh no, I'm sorry, man.

I mean, like when I was going through your website, I was thinking, do I start with season one? Oh, that's going to build the season two, which will build the season three. No, no, no, season, so season one is a track from start to finish season two. The track from start to finish, like they're all a different track. Okay. Cool. And I do on every like four or five years or every three years

or something like that. So like I've got a bunch of new techniques basically every time. So they all have different techniques and stuff in them. But it's all just me building a track from start to finish because I find like a lot of this stuff online is like tricks, right? It's like here's how to do this crazy one trick or whatever.

And knowing that trick is cool and interesting, but it's only like one thing to add to an arsenal. Yes. And really, it doesn't, and none of it makes sense unless you incorporate it all into a process which eventually gets you to the end of a song, assuming that that's what you want to be doing, right? It's finishing songs.

So the auto-mister bill is kind of like, it kind of, like, I have all the tricks that I would normally sort of do in all of my tutorials and stuff, but it's like, here's how I would like implement them all into making a song. But the latest series is the one I suggest because it's like the most digestible one. A, it's filmed really nicely, and the Art of Mr. Bill season four is also filmed really nicely, but the three before that are just me and my webcam. And up until season four, all of the videos were one hour long. And one hour is just a long time to watch a video for it.

So instead of doing like 10 one hour videos, I did 35, 20 minute videos. So they're all. Nice. Yeah, you know, just like, yeah, in those, you know, in those like little like here's how you make that weird sound, those are useful. But, you know, just like the way you organize your stems, you know, like stuff like that, like for people like me

is really, really useful, you know, it's like seeing the way you're breaking up. You know, I up up until watching your tutorials, I was like, I was just putting all the drums in the same stem. You know what I mean? Like not just putting the the the kicks in the snares and everything in separate stems. And now it's like holy fuck. That makes sense. And difference. Yeah. So another thing that helped me a lot when I was first starting is to see like what a finished project file looks like,

which is why I give those away on my website too. There's like 50 of them on there now. And like basically you can just you can download them and look through them in there. You do whatever you want with them, you can remix them or do whatever, but that's not really the point of them. The point is just to like download it and just be like, all right, this is what a finished

song looks like when it's when it's done. And I, Well, what if, I'm sorry, what are people don't have the plugins? Like what if I freeze, I freeze everything. So, Oh, cool. That's cool. Yeah.

And then there's, I also like put lessons in them. So like down in the sidebar and able to, and there's like a bunch of notes about the project, like here's what this thing is for, and this is what this does. Yeah, when I first got started, like seeing a finished project file, just like, made shit make a lot more sense to me to be like, oh, this is what all of those tricks combine into it at the end. But yeah, so that's kind of the premise of the website. There's also like, I put every live stream of it, I ever done up there, which is like thousands of hours at this point, like I don't expect anyone to go through all

of that. And then I've got like 20 sample packs on there as well. So like, basically they are sort of like the building blocks that you can use for making all of your own beats and stuff. Though you also have videos up there as to how I make my sample packs as well in case case people wanna make their own personal samples and just use those. Awesome.

Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your music. And what's the festival you're headed towards in case people wanna come? It's called Los Lands. And yes, by Exision, she's festival. Thank you Bill.

Howdy Krishna. I'll see you next time. Thanks man. I appreciate you having me. That was Mr. Bill. Everybody. Again, it's Mr. Bill's Toons.com. You can find the links at www.dougartrustle.com. Much thanks to our wonderful sponsors. I hope that you will try them out. Much thanks to you for listening. I'll see you out there. You are wonderful sponsors.

I hope that you will try them out. Much thanks to you for listening. I'll see you out there.