Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 589: Raghu Markus

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

Raghu Markus, one of Duncan's dear friends and co-author of their new book, re-joins the DTFH! Duncan and Raghu have written a new book! You can read or listen to The Movie of Me to the Movie of We on Audible right now. Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/duncan and get on your way to being your best self. Lumi Labs - Visit MicroDose.com and use code DUNCAN at checkout for 30% Off and FREE Shipping on your first order! Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site.

Hello to you my sweet bubbling goo ascensions. It's me Trussell and you're listening to the Douga Trussell family hour podcast I'm recording this from Spokane just did a bunch of shows at the Spokane comedy club Two more tonight looks like they're gonna sell out. Thank you, Jesus. How are you? I hope you're great I hope you have somebody combing your hair, like a professional hair comb that follows you around, comes your hair, rubs your back, rubs your feet, whispers sweet things in your ear, rubs oil into your belly at night so you can relax. Most importantly, it has an ample supply of benzos that puts you into the most incredible

dreamless sleep you've ever experienced. If you don't have that, then I hope one day you will achieve it as I have. You can find these haircomers at haircomor.gov. I'm not sponsored by them, but I would highly recommend it. It's a new government program. It's amazing, the federal government,

It's a new government program. It's amazing, the federal government, I've always felt a little not great about the federal government freaks me out, makes me worried some of those people seem like they might be robots, but I've kind of changed my thinking now that they've unveiled this new plan to get everybody these pleasuring haircomers. And it's amazing. It's a wonderful service. They decided to use 1% of the military budget that we're currently using. And that is more than

enough to pay for a personal pleasuring hair comer for every single American. So I really do hope you'll check it out. When mine showed up, I was a little nervous to meet her, but she's a wonderful lady, beautiful, trained in all kinds of interesting massage techniques, including tontric massages, which if you haven't had one of these before, you need it. It's amazing.

Her ability to comb my hair, stimulate my prostate and get rid of a lot of dark energy related to my phallus is top notch. And I just want to thank you, President Biden, for this program because I think it's really going to change my life. Again, it's haircomers.gov and I hope you'll check them out. It's so worth it. You deserve a little bit of pleasure and it looks like the federal government has finally realized that. What a podcast we have for you today.

This is actually a very exciting episode of the DTFH. I have not mentioned to anyone that over the last few years, five years, one of my dear friends, Ragu Marcus, who introduced me to Ramdas, who runs the Ramdas retreats, has a huge part in the Ramdas' foundation, and it's just an all around incredible incredible person, for around five years. We've been recording an audiobook. We realized that we were having these

deep conversations that centered around the idea of identity, the self, and this possibility that just maybe there's a way to be 5% less neurotic and selfish. And I think the reason we decided to start recording the conversations is because both of us recognize that we are experts at being selfish, neurotic, self-charishing people. And so over the years, we've just been recording these conversations, and finally, we've put them together

into an audio book called, From the Movie of Me, to the Movie of We, a title that Krishna Doss graciously let us use. It's just us having an ongoing conversation and it's a really really cool thing that Ragoop put together because you can sort of follow our journey through time. We go through the pandemic. I mean we've been doing this for years. I hope you will check it out. It is available on audible and all the links you need to find it will be at

DuncanTrustle.com. Before we jump into the podcast, some quick announcements. I hope you will subscribe to our Patreon. It's patreon.com for it's last DTFH. You'll get commercial free episodes of this podcast. And I have some shows coming up that I would like to announce. I'm headed to Salt Lake City. That one, don't put off getting tickets because one of the shows has already sold out and it looks like all of them are gonna sell out. So just get the tickets.

I know it's annoying, nobody wants to get tickets. I don't like getting tickets, but you can find the ticket links at DunkitRussell.com. Salt Lake City, that's November 17th to the 18th. Then I'm going to be in Charlotte at the Comedy Zone, December 14th through the 16th and then in January. You can catch me at the Comedy Works, January 11th through the 13th. Then January 25th, I'll be at Helium in Indianapolis.

All the tickets, all my shows are now up at DunkitRustle.com. All right, let's jump into this wonderful episode with my dear friend, Rago Marquez. Welcome back to the DTFH. It is so great to see you. How is Oh, hi? Oh, hi is great, but I'm happy to be back. I love Just being able to hang out on a warm afternoon Yeah, yeah, I know yeah It's not a warm afternoon here in Spokane. It's rainy and Bleak which I love oh after this Texas summer some nice Grizzly cold rain is heaven. Yeah, yeah, okay, great. Yeah, Spokane friend not Spokane Spokane

Yes, it's not even though it's spelled Spokane. Yeah, it's Spokane friend, not Spokane. Spokane. Yes, it's not, even though it's spelled Spokane. It's Spokane. Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm in a haunted hotel. Apparently, the Uber driver told my friend that this is a very haunted hotel. Has nothing to do with it. I think of what we're gonna talk about today,

but I have to ask, because I don't think I ever asked you this. All your travels to India and God knows where else. All your encounters with various holy people. Have you ever had a ghost experience? That ghost is too black and white, certainly some being in a place where you kind of could feel entities of energy that had not been released or something. You know, I had died in the house or so on.

So, yeah, I've experienced that, but not Halloween ghosty kind of thing. No, yeah, I've experienced that too. And I don't know how I feel about it. I've read some things saying that actually, you know, they studied this, like the claim people make to feeling that something is haunted or there's something dark there. And a lot of the times they find mold in the basement

and they think that it's just a reaction mold. No, that's more, you know, that's bust the idea that anything is possible and all is possible. But in this case, you know, energy fields, people who have died, definitely many people get confused about, wait a minute, I'm not alive anymore. There's still connectivity in the early stages of the earlier Bardos, the liminal states. And I, of course, they're a little bit confused, which is why all many of the mystic traditions have a whole liturgy around,

this is what you need to remind the soul or the Buddha mind, whatever it may be, that is moving on. And it's okay, you can leave now, You can go off. Everything is fine. You've been forgiven for whatever BS that you happen to get into in your lifetime. Right. You know, like that. I mean, there's a whole litany of it. It's, I, of course, as you know, and I say all the time, I know not in my head that everything is possible. By the way, speaking to this a little bit, I did a podcast yesterday with Bruce Damer. Oh, he's awesome. I haven't talked to him forever. I know. I hadn't since the beginning of the pandemic.

I've had talked to him forever. I know. I hadn't since the beginning of the pandemic. Do you know? So I say, you know, because he's involved with advising the Japanese space agency on, you know, they're looking for the origin of life on Mars and stuff like that, right? Really out there.

Wow. He's amazing. So he said that he was in, with some other researchers in New Zealand, in some ancient hot springs, and they were just spooning up stuff. I don't know what, plasma, or whatever, from the hot springs, anyhow, bottom line, they are on their way to proving that it's not about a single organism, our origin, cell, a cell that divided it, whatever, right? It's about a group that interacts together of these organisms, which you need to do a podcast with them because you're your smart. I couldn't

I saw I saw his talk on this. Something like this. He had some kind of ancient rock and he was, you know, talking about this sort of paradigm that were taught, which is single-celled organism that were taught, which is single-celled organism becomes multi-cellular over time and how that sort of paints this almost lonely individualistic picture of evolution when it's a collaborative harmonization more than the way that we've been taught. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was fascinating. And he's got a paper coming out on it

in one of these amazing bio-blog-log journal. And it just struck me. And we talked about it. I mentioned Duncan and I just put out an audio book. that just came out, the movie of me, or the movie of we, and what you just described is exactly what the journey is to realize this interconnectivity is who we are and where we come from, not the separate I, the Mimi. So yeah, it was pretty amazing. There was something that I, when I was in college, this very long time ago, one of the professors

was talking about, and I don't know, some Native Americans, or maybe it's like an indigenous culture. But he was saying, they didn't have a word for me Like whenever they referred to themselves it was we because they didn't think of themselves as separate From the tribe. They were just one I guess a appendage in this Collective that they've been born into and so they didn't even know I didn't even make sense to them that anyone Would refer to themselves as a me, which is so cool, so cool. But this is amazing. But this is the West.

And this is the world we are born into. You're born into a world that doesn't just tell you you are you, but encourages you to be a leader. Did you ever get any of that shit when you're in school? Like how good it is to be a leader? No, I was such and I was so much in survival mode all the time. I am. If that came out, but I don't recall it at all.

I mean, I had horrendous early school experience. I know from the book. I know. I know from the book. I know, I know. So you, you, you must have brought shoulders or if not, and it might be you're in Canada, like it might just be a, and more of an American thing, but right.

Right. Yeah. Leaving a leader is considered the most important thing. You never want to be a follower. You want to be a leader. And this is the most insane, when you really think about it, it's the most insane thing to teach anybody. In the sense that leaders depend on followers, you're encouraging everyone to be a leader, and thus negating that

what a leader has to have to function, which is followers. And so it's a very Western kind of teaching, because really what they want is for like some people to become bosses and everybody else to become an employee. I think it's more of a... Go ahead. A more patriarchal, I think. This is not happening just here in the West. This is in the East, where you know, you are an individual, you need to get out there and lead the posse. Yes. And that

individual, individualization is less in some respects say in India, which I'm most familiar with in the East because they've got a culture that allows for the group consciousness to move forward in the way that they're so connected with spirituality. Not necessarily always, shall I say, in the deepest truth sometimes many as a time and you know we've met many people over there many a time they're just They're going through the motions Because of the culture dictating to them a certain role. And that role thing is what you're talking about become a leader. It's a role that you're going to say you must inhabit that role. And as you say, well, what about the other role? You can't have that role without the other role. So what are we talking about, you know, the the follower? So I don't think I think it's

universal. Oh yeah, it is. I'm sure it is. It's, I mean, what we're talking about is I guess you could argue like a kind of idealistic way of looking at things. But it does seem that this is in human history, at least in my very, very low grade understanding of human history. This is a hyper individualistic time that people rarely even get a chance to experience that thing that happens when you merge with a group, which, you know, many people have experienced it with psychedelics, it burning man, it raves, it can happen where your identity just is gone all of a sudden and you've become part of this greater mind. And when that happens, it's the most incredible thing you've ever felt.

It's like drinking water, you didn't even know your thirsty, and then all of a sudden you're unencumbered from the eye identity, and it's magical what happens. And many people say that there's actual exercises you can do with groups of people, even though who's even going to do that, I feel so weird doing that. But there's exercises you can do with groups of people, usually through some breathing techniques that induce that state. Yeah, and what about just chanting together or you're meditating together? Yeah, yes. And all creates exactly what you're talking about. This episode of the DTFH has been supported by Better Help.

For those of you like me, you know what the time of year is right now. The lights getting weird, the time is changing, the holidays are coming coming and for some of us this is like Thor has taken his powerful magical hammer and is smashing us in the heart and brain with it over and over and over again. And it bruises our hearts and our brains and we think, okay, well I'll fix this with booze. I'll just pour booze on the God wounds in my brain and heart, but that only makes Odin come. Odin's angry. He didn't want you to put booze on your hammer wounds, and so then he starts cursing you with seasonal effective disorder, and you just feel it happening like it does every single year.

But adding something new and positive other than boost your life can counteract some of those feelings, therapy can be a bright spot amid all the stress and change, something to look forward to, to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on and to keep the Norse gods of seasonal effective disorder and holiday anxiety at bay. I have massively benefited from therapy and I highly recommend it to anybody, even if you feel like you're perfectly normal and everything's okay with you,

it's still wonderful to have a professional that you can hang out with and get to the bottom of what's going on down there in the swirling cyclone of your psyche. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help but try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule.

You just thought a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime no additional charge. Find your bright spot this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Duncan today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com slash Duncan. Thank you, better help. There's exercises you could do with groups of people, usually through some breathing techniques that induce that state of the world.

What about just chanting together? Or you may be chanting together. Yes. And that all creates exactly what you're talking about. I completely, though, going back to Bruce Damer and the idea that we do not come from a separate cell that splits or whatever, that we come from something that is completely interconnected, interconnected material of some sort. Yeah. And you know what? I, another podcast I did with David Silver, it was around the Yugas. So I had all, you know, all the Hindu set out of different time periods that different reflections of humanity get bespoke in a much more profound way.

Supposedly we're in the Colley Yogan now. We all say that, hey, we're in the Colley, to me it was like woohoo, kind of stuff, right? That, you know, how's it gonna really benefit my day-to-day life or anybody else's day-to-day life? Anyhow, so we had this book and it's really phenomenal. And these two guys put this whole thing together and it was way wiser than it wasn't a new AG kind of thing.

And one of the things they said in it, how each epoch reflects humanity is really the core thing about it is the interactivity of the people at that time and what they do and how they act and you know what their ethics are what their morals are what their connection to mysticism is or not and how they interact sets up what the reflection is in that particular era. It's not black and white. It was amazing. Another indicator of, yes, our interaction is what it's all about.

And having people in power in the different parts of this world that is such a very troubled place right now. Having these people who absolutely have no connectivity to anything beyond their me, their ego, their, you know, attachment to power and money or whatever it may be. That is, and so people are reacting off of that. Look at the schism in this country now, the polarity of the left and the right. And now the left is splitting is doing another schism because of what's going on in the world. And so this is a pretty a little bit nervy reflection related to the epoch that we happen to be in. Yeah, I mean, it sort of got embodied.

You know, this is something Carl Jung talks about how the shadow of society gets reflected out into the world. And so it's like the pandemic was a projection of just what you're talking about because what was one of the main rules during the pandemic? Social distancing. You know what I mean? Stay away from everybody. Stay away from each other. Separate, separate.

You're gonna die. So it was like this thing that was already happening anyway, because of computers, because of the lack of, you don't need to go out to date anymore. You can do it on your phone. You can find someone on your phone theoretically. It was like all of that division appeared in this disease that encouraged more of that division. Stay at home, stay separated.

And so, yeah, I think you don't just have to go from the inside out in this young, young, and white. You could theoretically go from the outside in. Look at what's happening in the world, and then you'll know what's happening inside of everybody, which is, which is really scary. We're really scary, a lot of confusion, a lot of division or sort of taking sides, right and wrong, my side is completely right, your side is completely wrong. My side is completely right. Your side is completely wrong.

So that means that inside people must feel divided in the same way. I think that absolutely. So why do people feel divided inside? What is this sort of, I don't know, skisming or fragmentation happening inside of people. What are they feeling separated from? The biggest thing is not feeling like they are part of a group of some sort, or a mission, or a purpose. They feel like they've been left behind.

So that creates anxiety and fear. And anxiety and fear is what promotes this feeling I have got to defend myself and therefore I have to create another Right that you know that's by the way you spoke to it in the in the I keep mentioning the book We did we we made an audiobook together guys, that we've been working on for five years now, or something like that for a long time. Yeah. It's like, I guess you could say it's sort of like a very long podcast, but it's much more organized. Well, it comes from different, just hanging out in recording, comes from podcasts, it comes from different, just hanging out in recording,

comes from podcasts, it comes from all sorts of different areas. You know, when you say five years on this book, by the way, it goes through all these different time periods, different things were happening. I mean, the most pronounced one, of course. We said, one day, okay, we're in the pandemic. We better talk about it. We're in the next book. So talk about it. We're in the

next book. So the great, I love this piece that's, you know, I think we're, we put it out as a little sample of the book on social. And it's you talking about in the pandemic in Italy. The singer came out and he's entertained, he or she is entertaining the people and it's a wonderful experience and the operatic and it's just like so much passion. Oh wait, in New York, you can do New York. And that's what they do. They took it and tell us about New York thing. Tell that story. Well, I think maybe you guys have seen this, but yeah, someone was trying to help in New York and their mind trying to help was I think in the morning going out on their balcony and doing some kind of opera.

And yeah, like they did it for a little bit before just out of the some windows, someone's like, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. It was so absolutely hilarious. And because, you know, I think, by the way, this book, this audiobook, this is just, we just decided to record this conversation we've been having maybe since we met, which is this exploration of identity. And you and me and the potential to not be so mired up and selfishness,

not like selfishness in the sense of like, you eat the last piece of pie, but selfishness. Like what did you do? It was called self-charishing, you know, where you book, you become your singular fixation in the world. But yeah, that a lot of what's really sad is like because people do have this sense inside of them, there's this potential for connection via some form of service or openness. They then try to make that connection, but by glorifying themselves as they make the connection. You know what I mean? So that's what produces that cloying version of it where even though the person appears to be doing something in

service of others, it just reeks of narcissism and then makes people feel even more separated from them, thus doing maybe more harm, maybe it would have been better for them to not do anything at all. Just at all. Yeah. And feel separate. No, but the reality is, of course, listen, there was an impulse to do this you and I I'm I say it in the book at some point I was just sick of the constant self-referential

behavior and the constant just absolutely feeling all of these different emotions because I see the motive. I mean, so I've been doing a lot of work for many years, right, in my age. And I, mindfulness is a great thing. It really allows you to take a look at yourself. And when you see the selfishness and the grass being, basically, go on, go on, go on, then you start to think, okay, what do I do?

Because I'm just so unhappy in this kind of a situation. I want to do something to save myself and in the saving of myself. And that just means be more equanimous, being more content, happy on a day-to-day basis, not feeling so absolutely motivated by manipulative kind of behavior. And so it's like, okay, what can I do? In our case, we went, well, let's talk about it. Yeah. Maybe it'll help somebody else.

Yeah, yeah, maybe it'll help us. Because I think one of the problems is that at first, you know, and I think, I don't know about you, but I can speak as like a professional selfish person. Like I am so good at being selfish. And like the beginning of it, you don't even realize you're being selfish. You think it's just completely normal

to spend every day trying to gratify your senses or trying to achieve something just for you or trying to gratify your senses or trying to achieve something just for you or trying to get to the next level just for you. This is what we've been taught. It feels normal and you don't realize that the happiness, the thing you think you're feeling, it's not even happiness.

It's more of like a kind of obsessive scratching at an itch or something, and it's not working anymore. And the highs you get from this excess are not, they don't hit quite as hard, but you keep going and going and going for it, trying to refine the way you pleasure yourself or gratify your senses. And at some point, I think you get to where you were, what you were mentioning there, where you just realized like,

why don't I just like, I might as well have like 160 pound baby that I'm taking care of, because that's what it's like, giving the baby booze, giving the baby ketamine, getting the baby blow jobs. You know what I mean? Like all the things you're doing are exhausting

and you realize that you've become a slave to yourself, which is a very strange feeling. And that is a- You're supporting that. Clostrophobic feeling. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, I like the section. And I like your whole premise in the book

around pyromania. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's I like the section in the I like your whole premise in the in the book around pyromaniac We that pension that we all have to have that insider so you mean to yeah Yeah to become a Pyromaniac and it's not a pyre and we're not physically lighting fires, but we are Absolutely lighting fires right everywhere we go. A carmin carminian. A carminian. Yeah, exactly.

But, you know, I think everybody knows when that motivation kicks in. I really do. I don't think, I think just think of simple things, like motivating somebody else, manipulating and motivating someone else to do something that will benefit you. It could be in the workplace, it could be in the love area, relationship area. We do that day to day because we are wanting to manipulate the world

to get what's most desirable for us. Yeah. That whole thing, that Ramdas read that third patriarch, right? Yes. That beautiful, beautiful thing around preferences that we talk about also in the book. I mean, yeah, this is all about preference. Right.

This is all about preference. Right. Yeah. What is it? It's the great way is not difficult for a people no preference. And you know, this is, you know, now that I have three kids and now that I'm in this few preferences. You have a few preferences. If you, if you, if you have managed to isolate, you don't realize how painful your preferences are. You don't realize that they're hurting you. But when you're surrounded by maniacs

and whatever you think your day is going to be like when you have three kids, it's not good. You don't know what it's going to be like. It might be better than you thought, or it might just suddenly spiral into a ridiculous catastrophe out of the blue. And if you're attached to how you think the day should go, it's hell. I mean, I think this is why you hear like the version of parenting where people are like, this is hell, I don't know what I've done versus this is paradise because the moment you

let go of the preferences, it's hilarious. You're like, you're just in a boat floating down a river of madness in the funniest way. And it stops being so serious. And it stops, you stop getting offended if you don't get your way or a lot of people feel disrespected if they don't get their way. Like the whole world is supposed to be making sure their preferences are met.

But there's something really beautiful when you let go of that. And I think that's what we're talking about here. When I was a young lad, the federal government had run out of things to go to war with, and so they started this thing called the war on drugs, and they splattered our brains with horrific propaganda regarding THC. We didn't know what it was, we didn't know the right way to consume it, we didn't understand anything about it. These were the dark days of the prohibition and so many of us were Odeeing ourselves on marijuana, taking massive doses, eating edibles, and spiraling down into a dark hell where in our minds we could just see

Ronald and Nancy Reagan laughing at us and then pulling their faces off and they look like skeletal demonic beings. This is because we didn't understand that you don't have to go all the way with THC. You can microdose and this is why I love today's sponsor. The darlings at loomie labs have created the most incredible gummy of all time. I happen to be enjoying one right now. Why? Because they're legal. You can fly with them. They're available nationwide and they are the perfect dose of THC. It's perfect. You're not going to go over the edge. You're not going to run from the invisible

wolves that chase you and you've had too much of an edible. And I know a lot of us have been wounded by eating these edible and are afraid. So I get that, but I just take half of one of these delicious gummies and I am on top of the world. They're wonderful. Help me fall asleep.

I like to work out on them. They're incredible. You will absolutely love them. And I hope you will try them out. Again, they're available nationwide to learn more about microdosing THC, go to micredose.com, use code Duncan to get free shipping in 30% off your first order. Links can be found in the show description, but again, it's micredose.com code Duncan. A lot of people feel disrespected if they don't get their way.

The whole world is supposed to be making sure their preferences are met. But there's something really beautiful when you let go of that. And I think that's what we're talking about here. Yeah. something really beautiful when you let go of that. And I think that's what we're talking about here. Yeah, now some people may say, what are you crazy? Of course, I'd prefer this that or the other. Of course, I prefer not to have pain. Of course, I prefer to have pleasure. I mean, basic, basic items. Yes, that is true. Yes. And I guess, you know, and we are human and we are going to have preferences. Yes. I guess though you do get to a point on there's two levels of there's micro and macro, micro being what's directly affecting you in the moment. And you you're going to have a

preference that either defends the moment or takes advantage of the moment. Then there's the macro. Look what's going on in this world. It's hard to turn away from that. My preference is I can't watch this. Right. Right. Right. On the other hand, I am a citizen of the world, of the nation and of the world. How can you turn your head away from it? And then you start to think, okay, maybe I need to just get myself better situated, a perspective that can take in all of the pain,

and can take in all of the pleasure at the same time, without reacting and grasping one way or another. Now that's a very, very difficult thing. It's a lifetime of work. And I guess most people may say, you know, what would be the motivation to even approach this situation of no preference. It sounds like something in the distance that cannot be achieved. Right, yeah. You know, but in the moment to moment, encountering of it, you really do, I believe,

and I've seen it in myself over many, many years, you really do see something transforming, slowly but surely. Yeah. And it happens. I think a good way to start with it is not to fit, because you don't pretend you don't have preferences. That's hilarious.

Anytime I try to do that, like you do know what I mean, where you wake up and you're like today, I'm gonna be like Neem Crowley-Baba. I'm just gonna love everyone I see. And I'm gonna go downstairs and make the kids' breakfast and it's just gonna be love. I'm not gonna get frustrated.

No preferences, I'm gonna surrender to the moment. And then like the toddler screams in your face because you pulled his pajamas sleeves over the fake bandaid that you put over a non-existent wound the night before and he expects you to know, like obviously never cover my imaginary bandaid. And he's screaming at you and you haven't had enough sleep and you haven't had coffee yet Do you know what I mean and then the reality sinks in no that you're not getting over this preference that you don't want to be screamed at By your child for pulling his sleeve down so it hurts. It's pain and so I really love

And so I really love the method taught in that book. You told me about why we meditate. Handshake, handshake practice. You know, do you remember that part of the book? I think so, yeah. It's real good. And the idea is that so instead of lying to yourself and saying, I have no preference, the handshake practice would be when that feeling of wanting things to go another way pops

up. Shake hands with it and say to it, you're real. In other words, I am having this experience, but not true. The story you're telling is not true because Because preference is just, I think, a reaction to suffering, right? It's a hurts. You're in pain. You're suffering. And so you think, oh, I will end the suffering by whatever getting pancakes or going into another room where it's quiet or like leaving to go to Las Vegas for the rest of my life, or whatever your stupid ideas. You know, but that tells a story.

The particular feeling tone has a story attached to it. And usually that story has a lie in it, which is like, you know, if you, maybe if you just had like a mimosa, you would feel better or something, right? So, I love the ancient practice. I love acknowledging, yeah, the preference is here. But then not following through with what it's telling you to do necessarily. And again, this is all mindfulness stuff, you know, and we very much through all of our

conversations and practice, that has been so important. It is so important. It's not like you're going to get cured. It's not like you're going to walk into a situation where you're toddler screaming at you and you're going to be able to just be completely equanimous. Yeah, it's not. But it's going to present something that is going to allow that transformation to take place at some time or place that we don't know about. Hey, this book, you know, it's amazing that you met at it. This mention, this is why we met at it, which is with my friend Danny Goldman

and his teacher and others of us that were friends back in the day, Sotni Rampashe, who is a son of Tulkou-Organ Rampashe. I know this is a little exotic, but this guy was a greatest meditation teacher from Tibet in the last 200 years. And he had four sons and they all became teachers as well and Sokni is a phenomenal teacher.

Anyhow, I just happened to be looking through this book before we were getting on. And I thought, wow, I've never even mentioned this to you. This would have been great in the movie of Mebo. So a key practice in his tradition is understanding reification. Have you ever heard that? No. Do you know what reification is? No, I've heard it the way I want to lie. I'm like, of course, I don't want re-effication is wrong, dude. Remind me of re-effication. I'm sure I remember the moment you say what it is. It's a tendency to make things more concrete or real or than they naturally are.

Okay. It's solidifying stuff. That's cool. What do we reify everything? When our mind reifies, all we experience gets seen through that lens. This is what we are talking about. In terms of the complete

abject, unconscious, ignorant behavior that we carry on day to day. We call it projecting maybe. That may be one of the words reifying the book. So reification in projection are kind of the same thing. Well, I think reification actually has much more of a profound meaning. Projecting is like, okay, we have a thought and we're projecting. You see somebody on the street, you perfect.

Project what it is that, you know, you're getting from them. Right. If it's sexual, if it's a... Moa got to avoid that person because it's a homeless person, whatever it may be. So there's a projection. I think reification, he says it's like believing a dream is real. If we believe our dreams are real, then we can get very excited by sweet dreams and very scared and upset by bad dreams.

We do the same during the day with our memories, thoughts and fantasies. We automatically reify our perceptions as we experience and quote unquote, eye. That's the old eye who is subject and what's in the world around us or in us as with our thoughts as object. The habit of reification has become the tendency to fixate deep in our being. Okay, that's so cool. That is so cool. You know, then this sets us up for increased anxiety, fear, stubbornness, heaviness, inflexibility, uncontrollable moods,

neurotic thinking, and so on. Yeah. So it is something to attend to, because we have all of those things. We have this, and especially today, we have such tremendous anxiety, and we're fixed about stuff, and then that makes it even much more difficult

to transform in our day-to-day lives, and I think that is so immensely important. It's like Everybody's like an ice cube tray You know with different shapes, you know, you get the fancy stupid ice cube tray It'll make your ice look like beautiful little like It'll make your ice look like beautiful little balls for your special drinks or a silly ice cube tray. Make it look like a Christmas tree or whatever. Right, but we're like that.

Like we're taking just phenomena, which is essentially empty, sucking it into the ice cube tray of our karma and identity and then freezing it into this shape that we call reality. Even though we know like our version of reality is purely subjective versus another person's another person's not just like emotionally or the stories we tell ourselves but literally spatially, you know, you're over there, I'm over here. Your version of reality that you're seeing is very different from mine. And there's something incredibly exciting,

thinking about how, oh, right, like, I don't always have to freeze reality into the worst version of reality. It doesn't always have to be a paranoid hellscape or a dying world or a world where I'm a failure or a world where I've been hurt and wronged and can't forgive or a world where I know that person mentor me. That's just that what you're forming reality into that. That's reification. And it's instantaneous. That's what's so to me, what's really beautiful about it is how quickly we can do it. These effortless, like you don't have to spend any amount of time congealing reality into a paranoid hellscape.

and jeeling reality into a paranoid hellscape. I hate to call it, that's beautiful, but okay. You know, I mean, it's amazing, you're right, you're absolutely right. The ease of at which we produce this stuff is extraordinary, you know. Yeah. But you know, the cholerary, choralary, choralary is is the ease at which we can do this reification basically, is the same as the ease at which, if we just switched, just a pull-as-switch, that we can not grasp. and not grasp. And we can realize it. It's so freeing to real, oh God.

OK, I get it. I get what I'm doing. And just sit. And a little bit of space allows for it to move on. It's like Lama Sultramalione was at a retreat. We did a few months ago and talked and she's famous for this one book feeding the demons. So you're not pushing this shit away that you suddenly realize just how much your reification is taking

place and creating these boulders inside yourself. You get with it a little bit, you know? Well, I mean, I'm sorry to cut your off. You can have a cup of tea, that's all. And that's, you know, something we don't do. We don't, we push this stuff away. Right. And it's as easy as we can create the thing, we can easily create enough space around that thing,

not to judge ourselves about it, etc., etc. Yes, theoretically. I mean, I don't know if I agree 100% with that because it kind of reminds me of stretching. You know, like, it's not easy. I've started stretching and it's not easy to stretch especially at first like I couldn't touch my toes and And then and it hurts a little bit like but it's a kind of a good hurt, but it still hurts and You sort of do it consistently and then you get that thrilling moment of like holy shit

I'm touching my toes. Oh my god My my head is about to touch my knees. I thought I'd never do that in my whole life. And then it gets easier, but it feels like with this, it's like that. Like this reification is like when your body gets all cramped up. You know, you've been sitting at the computer for your whole life, or most of your life,

or having bad posture. And it's crunched you up. And in the same way, this sort of spontaneous reification of the world is a not great place. It's like that. It's like you haven't been stretching. And it feels like it does, I think it does. It's not easy. You kind of have to stretch it out a little bit

over time, little slightly stretch out that your particular ice cube tray, or try to add another shape in there to see what happens, but I mean, I just, I go back to it really, it's easy to go back to the old pattern from me. Yeah, no, absolutely. But I do suggest that that I guess I've had the moment that I have the realization of whatever

that reification, whatever that making something so solid and that's who I am. And once I realize that there's a sense of freedom. Wow, I can see the light at the end of the talk. Yes. That's what I mean. So there is ease that happens after you become a little bit more aware of these dark places, basically. Yes.

Yes. Yes, yes. I want to think Squarespace for supporting this episode of the DTFH and for creating the most beautiful website of all time. For me, it's DunkinTrustle.com. It is inargui inarguiably a workahart inarguiably. It's like the most beautiful, subtle, yet powerful website out there, and that is not coming from me. That's coming from B.Rogue Obama, who loves my website. Says he visits it in the morning when he's feeling blue.

Squarespace is a toolbox. It has everything you need to make a website to send out emails to your clients. If you're starting a podcast, it's the go-to spot for you. You can't just let your podcast hang out on Spotify or the audible or wherever it happens to be. It needs a home Nexus Point, a location for your bands to go and understand more about your guests, to have links. If you want members only areas, you can do that with Squarespace. You can create special content for your dearest fans. They have an ability to create a paywall. It's just an incredible toolbox. It's easy to use. You want to build a website quickly. no problem. You can do it under an hour. You want

to create something that I have made, something so incredible and deep that philosophers weep when they go to it. You can do that too. It's got everything you need including the ability to connect all your socials to your website, which is pretty awesome. I hope you will consider checking square space out. Try them out. Head over to squarespace.com, 4th slash Duncan. Try it out for free. And when you're ready to launch your offer, cut Duncan, you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Thank you Squarespace, I love you! So there is ease that happens after you become a little bit more aware of these dark places, basically.

Yes. Yes. Totally. That's what I love about this stuff, is that that is easy. Like if you just spend a little bit of time fantasizing that you don't always have to see the worst in the world or in people or in your day or what's coming, that you can make believe if you want to,

that maybe this is gonna be an incredible day for you, actually, that it's going to be a wonderful day. Because, you know, and I, I'm speaking to someone who has gone like a year straight of just like this sucks, like whatever is happening is fucked, and I hate it. And what are you kidding, Kamara, Goo? Come on, it's a beautiful baby, just got born. I'm not talking about now.

I'm talking about years and years ago when I was trying to be fashionably cynical and... Oh, I see, yes. You know, I wanted to be this sort of sophisticated darkling. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I've come to... You did a good job. I was really good at it.

I was really good at it. And it's fun at first, but then it grabs you. And the things that you have been sort of make pretending to believe, you start believing, and then it can get really scary. But what you're talking about is that moment where you realize, oh wait, I don't have to keep doing this. Even if you keep doing it,

the whole game gets fucked up. The moment you realize there's, you can stop if you want. That's where the cracks start forming in the windshield of the shit car you've been driving around how. Yeah. Yeah hate to, I hate to, I mean, that's, it's totally a reality. It's a reality why we, and certainly I wanted to, this book, because I thought, okay, if we use ourselves as examples here, we can maybe project the possibility of realizing that the awareness and mindfulness really do help change your day-to-day atmosphere around defending yourself anxiety and treating people in a way that you really don't want to, but it's in bread, it's habitual patterns that happen. So at the same time, it's all okay. I mean, that's what a Jack Cornfield,

he has my favorite mantra. What? He talks about, it's not curious to be human. Look at this thing, you have a, look at this, there's a space between the middle of your face that just chumps down on all kinds of different organisms. It's incredible. Have you ever watched yourself having sex?

That's really out there, right? And then he goes, but through all of it, just remember, it's okay. We're human. Right. It's okay. Yeah. You know, and we wake up when we're supposed to wake up and but part of it is now that we're looking and the thing that just caught me what you just said suggested. Now that we're looking at this extraordinary polarization in our world, manifesting in just horrific different ways.

There is A, and I go back to the thing about the UGAS or the Bruce Damors, hey, we are an interactive species. That is what we're talking about, this reification, this making, in this case, hatred and division, so strongly embedded all through the world. And now that's a wow, tough, tough thing for us to live with on a day-to-day basis with this kind of suffering. So then maybe that's a motivator too. So I'm not just saying the motivator is just okay, a great one is

I don't want to be unhappy anymore. I don't want to be in anxiety anymore. So you start to do the kinds of things that help transform that. But now, and you see this world, and you understand, if you've taken any psychedelic, most especially, you have that insight, that interconnectivity is real. Absolutely, that ineffable experience is the most, gives us a big advantage to know that it's real. gives us a big advantage to know that it's real. I think that one way people misunderstand what you're talking about is they think that you're inviting them to be this sort of like monkey.

Idiot. No, monkey. I'm just some kind of idiot, like some kind of idiot who is not seeing that there's also an aspect of reality where there is justice, where there is right and wrong and where that in sort of letting go of all the habitual ways that you separate yourself from others based on ethics or whatever that you just we're gonna become a drooling loving idiot, like a big fat drooling dummy that just is like sitting. This is a big, a cartoon movie.

Married. Jeffrey Dahmer, I love him so much. I'm one with Jeffrey Dahmer, he's me and you. Like that, and that's not what we're talking about. I hope not. But, you know, in my own sort of, you know, everyone who's like, whatever it is you're looking at in the world, the go to is, okay, who is right here and who is wrong here? And if you couldn't determine that in your own mind,

and really commit to it, then what that means is that you don't, you only have to feel half the heartbreak. Because you'll feel heartbreak for the people who you think are right and everything that has been happening to them, but you won't feel it for the people you think are wrong quite as much. Because you'll say, well, they kind of deserve that. And this is the case for everything. And people don't realize that when they're doing that,

really, there's at least for me, I realize, oh, I'm doing that because I don't want to feel the whole heartbreak. I only want to feel part of the heartbreak and not the whole awful, almost unbearable reality of what's happening, taking away the right and the wrong and then suddenly you really experience the world instead of hiding behind whatever team you're on. That is not easy to do. It is so much easier but I think you can do that and then still take sides. You know what I mean? You can open your heart up to all of the suffering

in a legitimate way. And then whatever team that you're on, that feeling is going to motivate the way you encourage other people on your team to behave. You know, that's how peace could come, maybe. Yeah, well, it's like going to, we're going to go to a, we're going to protest against whatever and we're going to go down there and we're going to have a piece march, whatever we're going to do. And we go down there and, you know, the Ramdas used to tell this story. I go down there because he went to one of people were shouting at that that's it everyone on the other side and throwing kids and it was just that

hey sir I'll fucking kill you if you're not for being so kill your ass yeah that's the big that's the paradox yeah exactly so and and on much more subtle level, just going there and having anger towards the other side, will do exactly the opposite of whatever you think you're trying to do to correct an injustice. Yeah. And that is very difficult. And it all goes back to you've got until you get your own self straightened out where you're not so polarized. I mean, we're going to be polarized and it's going to go on. But there is a way to get less polarized, to a way to deal with dark shit and not run away from it

and be able to have a relationship with that which is uncomfortable. Yes. And that's one of the main things, especially in the West Duncan. I mean, when you've been in India, I mean, these people, they know how to take this comfort. I mean, I'm just all around me. All the time is an example of that whenever I go there and hang out with families, and so on, Indian family.

And this is something that's impossible for us here. Anyhow, but it's not even, you know, that's extraordinarily important being able to handle the 100,000 horrible visions and the 100,000 beautiful visions, which is the ancient text, say. But I think that the solidity that's happening in groups around this world, in nations, and it's just so absolutely reified. It is so strong. And it's enough of another motivation to do something for yourself that allows you to make some contribution that is not biased, so heavily biased along

the side of your own proclivities in terms of being comfortable. That's what I mean about this comfort. Yeah, it's so comforting to really fully join a team. And you can still be on your fucking team. Like that's the thing, it's not an invitation to then throw your flag down or anything like that. It's just like, I read something, I don't know if this is true or not,

something around the samurai When they were doing like they would love they the part of the training was to learn how to love the person You were gonna kill like really love them So when they were killing they were you know, they were killing with a lot They love they were killing someone they loved meaning if they were doing it They there was no other choice. You know, I imagine killing someone you love. That was in their training. That's the Gita, right?

It's the bug of a... Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that there is a way. And thank God most of us, and hopefully most of us don't have to do, have to kill. But it reminds me of something, I think it was that awesome documentary you shared at the last retreat I was at.

About the way... Brilliant discuss. Yes. And Krishna Das arguing. It's a modesty of KC to argue. It's a modesty of how the way they would argue. They would have these ferocious arguments, spiritual arguments, and yet they loved each other.

And so, but that didn't mean that the arguments look like, when you say that, it makes me feel like this. It's full on screaming arguments, but because there's love behind it, it becomes lighter, more like a game, because they know at the other end of the screaming, the love is just going to be there. Exactly. That's a great example of what we're talking about. The possibility of really transforming out of this polarization and what does it love? Yes.

Absolutely 100%. You know, I wanted to bring something else that I came across the other day, some another person I did a podcast with, or, or, and Jay Sofer, actually, and, and it's about, it's a subject, it's a talking point that is so hard for us in the West to have any relationship with, but to me it's the one of the most misunderstood concepts and it is yet so dearly important actually. And what I came across, he just put it in ways that are a little bit more understandable and not so, quote unquote, religious. And it's what Ramdas, when he first came back from India, he said, there's a few things I can't talk about in the West.

And he named them. Guru was one. Because that's really tears people up. Somebody's going to take over my life. The other one, the second to that was surrender. Surrender. What, give all my money and shit to somebody. You know, completely concept gone. And the third one was devotion,

which immediately sets up a thing of fear. Devotion, wow. Here's what he said. Devotion is the, some of this is just a great viewpoint that just turns you around. It's the, this particular teacher is a Buddhist. It's the willingness to give our heart to something completely.

Willingness to give our heart. I mean, willingness to give our heart. I mean, you do that when you follow up, right? It is a way of relating to anything in life with deep love, loyalty, and generosity of spirit. Inhold heartedly engaging with life, devotion helps us realize our aspirations and bring satisfaction and fulfillment. Devotion heals us, feeds our heart, and sustains us with well-being during our challenges. Devotion provides a foundation for long-term engagement, and plays a crucial role in transforming our inner and outer worlds. I thought this is a great definition of it rather than the

quote unquote more traditional botty definition of it. The way, you know, just the thinking of devoting oneself to say, I do not want to be unhappy anymore. I do not want to have anxiety anymore. I want to wholeheartedly engage with these things that are causing my life to be a ship storm a lot of the time. That devotion to wanting to transform, or I see these things going on in our world, and I want to devote myself to helping to make change, or whatever it may be. That wholehearted willingness, as he says, to devote oneself with purpose, with meaning, with transforming that bugaboo me-me-guy is, that bugaboo, me, me guy, is, yeah, I think it's a great methodology for being able to make that move. And it's, but what I love about Bakti Yoga, or my encounter with the Hare Krishna is,

and all the various literature they put out is, you know, Bakti, itti, it's really, it's done an incredible job of sort of quantifying or mapping out this path. And so within it, it talks about, with devotion, the sort of phases of it. And the first phase of it is, you do kind of have to push yourself a little bit. You can't feel completely secure in the idea of altering your life in a way that you begin to really devote yourself to shifting some of these patterns or karmic loops that you're stuck in. But you like the idea, it sounds good. And so you start working with it a little bit.

But in Bokti, you'll get talks about, but then something wonderful starts happening, which is an attraction develops to whatever your practice is. It's not a one-way street. That the moment there's some expression of real, sincere devotion, it's like the universe starts pulling you in deeper and then it goes from having to discipline yourself to do whatever your particular practice is, meta, meditation, whatever it may be.

Now you start wanting to do it, longing for it, pining, that's the word the hard Christian has left to use. And of course, they're talking about your pining after Krishna. And they will say, it goes from you'll read the Bhagavad Gita and think, that's cool too. One day suddenly, you're like, hi, I really just want to read the Bhagavad Gita. And then you're reading it and then suddenly you have to read it every day. Are you start longing to look at a picture of

Krishna? You know what I mean? start longing to look at a picture of Krishna? You know what I mean? You want to see just a picture or a picture of Prabhupada or your guru or whatever. And then this thing starts happening. Something starts pulling you in and that to me is really scary. You know what I mean? That aspect of it is scary because it can get really powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you ask you receive, you really do, especially if it's in any kind of sincere

ask, to the universe, whatever you want to call that thing that holds is the glue, the glue. The glue man, you know, pray to the glue man and he will stick you to himself. Yeah. Bruce and I were talking Damon and I were talking about. So he called the glue an operating system. Okay. Okay. And then I said, that's exactly what my experience with theme corolli-baba was. Right. That there wasn't a me and you kind of thing when, you know, that just wasn't happening. It's hard to explain what that was, but it wasn't happening. It was just, this thing with a blanket around it, this human

being with a blanket around him, was just, you could see that there was nothing in this human being with a blanket around him, was just, you could see that there was nothing in this human being that was saying, I'm going to do this or that or thought of anything. It was an operating system that did the right thing much better than, you know, my computer sometimes, which doesn't do the right thing. But this thing did the right thing for that human being for them to become who they truly are in their true nature, who they are. And you know, that's of course,

we've spent a lifetime going through lifting all of the onion skin off of that one. And you know, it's something that is, the reality is that because we were so attracted to this unconditionality through this being, that it gave us gigantic, the thing you just mentioned, gigantic motivation. And we were like being pulled through something, you know, like a birth cord, basically. Yeah, that's wild.

An operating system. I mean, but then this is the, to get back to the Wii, me to Wii, this is that thing that happens when you are around a group of people who are intentionally chanting or whatever, that somehow, yeah, maybe you are a million miles away from being able to let go of yourself and become that channel or portal to the glue man, the operating system. Why can't we just say God anymore? I say God. God. I can't we just say God anymore. I say God. God, no we can't say God anymore.

I'm like, no I'll do anymore. You have to say source. You have to say the glue man. It's God. And so when you go, you can't be a glue nut man. Okay, it's a glue being. It's not.

I worship the glue being. But the, the, when you know, But those are treats. There have been times doing caretongue where you're just not there anymore. You're just part and it's not like, therefore you don't exist. It's not nihilism, but it's like you merge into the sweet, group consciousness that represents all the people chanting.

And you could just feel the love. So in the love is so real that it stops being I'm feeling it and you become it. And I think something about sharing a space with that intention allows people to connect with the glue being the glue. Yeah, the glue being yeah, and you know, by the way in my experience and I meet tons of people all the time in the work that I do Everybody has had some ineffable experience in their life, which is the same as you just described suddenly You're not thinking about yourself. You're part of a one-heart thing. I mean, in all sounds new agey, but it's real. That does happen. I mean, it happens. Go to a concert. I'm sure it's

happening at Taylor Swift, right? They're just feeling this complete at oneness in that moment. Maybe I know that is yeah No, maybe Maybe fine I guess so All right, well my own experience. Okay. I was with John Coltrane one day and you know this story a billion times over and that went into that ineffable space. I'm just saying through a piece of music, through a friend, through a book, through a film, through an anything, through the psychedelic of course, that ineffable experience. We're going to be doing all kinds of investigations that love through Ramdoth's represented representation around science, spirituality, and psychedelic insight.

And that ineffable thing happens, that insight happens. And that leads one to understand, wow, there's a greater purpose here for me, other than completely fending, feeling like I'm fending for myself as a separate unit. And they're, yeah, so I believe it's real. I know it's real. Check out our book. Check out our audiobook friends. We did it. For years, we've been working on this thing. We're a goo handle handle the brunt of it, organized it, produced it, and now it exists on Audible. It's waiting for you.

Ragu, tell them about how they can download the book. Movieofme.com. That's the website and the links are there for Amazon, Audible, and iTunes, where you can get the audiobook and download it, and it's 10 and a half hours, so it'll keep you busy for a while. And everybody, yeah, write a review, like we say in the thing, the Christian Dias' whole thing, which is where this comes from, the movie of me, you wake up in the morning, you're

the chief protagonist, you're the writer, you're the director, you're the producer, and you even write your own views. But in this case, we do want you to review and put it up on iTunes or Audible or whatever Amazon and enjoy. Yeah, movieofme.com. From there, you'll be able to get directed to whatever your favorite Audible or iTunes basically is so yeah, and there's a sample there and Yeah, all kinds of other things. Well, you are the bragu. I can't believe that we finally finished this thing I'm so lucky to have you as an ex-found. You are so brilliant and

Yeah, I don't know if I'd be as connected to the glue man or the glue being if not for you The glue being is the worst Descriptor for God. I've ever heard him in my life. The baby I've ever heard. I know I just that it just came to me in a moment of the Glue being ridiculous fantasy where three or more of of your gather the glue being will come is there is there. Yeah, let's put that as a meme up on social and so on. Oh, I have to give credit. Wait a minute. You can't credit me with yes.

I was involved heavily in the production of this thing be both were but Katrina for Nandez is the producer of this book and we had some also very early help and very very helpful was with Gennett Brainer okay I want to give credit to the guys for sure and of course, Christian not skits 99 presented the credit because we bagged his shit. And you asked him right. No, I'm not yet. Okay, Ragu. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the show. Everybody download our audible please. We love you. I love you, Ragu. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day.

I'm, um, see you later. That was Ragu Marcus, everybody. The links you need to find our audio book will be at DunkitTrustle.com. It's from the movie of me, to the movie of we. Thank you to our wonderful sponsors. Go see me live. I hope you to see you out there, spoken. I just wanna say I love you guys. These have been delightful shows.

I love all of you. Thank you for letting me have this is my job. I'll see you next week. Until then, ha re Krishna. is my job. I'll see you next week. Until then, Hare Krishna.