Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 657: James Fox

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

James Fox, UFOlogist and director, joins the DTFH! Check out James' new documentary, The Program, available on Apple TV and Prime! You can also follow James on Twitter for more updates. This episode is brought to you by: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/duncan and get on your way to being your best self. AG1 - Visit DrinkAG1.com/Duncan for a FREE 1-year supply of vitamin D and 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase!

Hello friends, welcome back to the DTFH. You know, I'm not gonna leave you hanging, my dear loves. I'm sure a lot of other people out there would. I'm sure Mr. Beast isn't releasing anything regarding what's happening with the drones in New Jersey, but I love you and it's the giving season. And today I offer you. And it's the giving season. And today, I offer you this episode with UFOlogist and director James Fox.

His newest documentary on the UFO phenomena is already number one on Apple Podcasts. But if you're wondering what's going on in New Jersey, or if you're interested in some actual data regarding the uptick in UAPs, then you have come to the right place. James Fox has been in the field of exploring the UFO phenomena for around 30 years. His documentaries are incredible. They are an actual non-woo-woo-y deep dive into what appears to be a long-running government cover-up. a long running government cover up. They don't want us to know what's floating around out there,

but James Fox is finding out. So strap in, get ready, stop staring up at the sky just for an hour and a half, and prepare to have your minds blown by James Fox. Also, you should follow him on X, Dare to Have Your Minds Blown by James Fox. Also, you should follow him on X, James C. Fox on X, and for sure download the program. It's on every streaming platform. ["Dare to Have Your Minds Blown"]

Mr. Fox, welcome to the DTFH. It is an honor to meet you. Thanks for having me on. Oh my God. When I, you know, this New Jersey drone thing, the fact that it is not just coinciding with my podcast, but coinciding with the release of your newest documentary, wow. How are you feeling right now about that? I literally got a text from the United States Air Force

Colonel, he's retired, but he goes, he's got a great sense of humor, he goes, James, I just wanna know your secret. How did you stage an alien invasion in conjunction with the release of your latest film. Your timing could not have been better. It couldn't have been better. It couldn't have been better.

It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. And that kind of synchronicity, I don't know how woo-woo you get about stuff, because I know that one thing I love about your documentaries is you lean into science. And I love that. It's so easy to get lost in the weeds in this conversation and lose all credibility and end up interviewing the wrong person and you just lose credibility

because you didn't research your guest enough. Yeah, I will lean into the woo-woo a little bit. Oh, you got to. Just a little bit. But when, you know, this is a big synchronicity. Oh, it's unbelievable. I was like, this morning somebody sent me Leader Schumer right now at the podium getting hammered by the audience going,

you don't know what it is, it's a UAP. Why don't you just call it what it is? You're the one that wrote the legislation, it's a UAP. He's like, we don't know what it is. He's like, yeah, exactly. Okay. It's like, this is happening right now. Well, I think that's the launching off point,

which is, for over two decades you've been investigating something that is clearly being covered up at every angle. And what I love about the release of your documentary and what's happening is because we are now seeing pure gaslighting coming from our government and Not just like we can't talk about it, but saying maybe your eyes aren't seeing the right thing. You're seeing Private planes. We don't know what this is And that to me is the most insidious and really like, it gives me the ick because the fact that they're being so brazen in their gaslighting in this

regard implies a certain level of comfort and a view of us that is like we're like subhuman idiots that you know that they're inviting us just don't look up and if you see something it's probably a private plane meanwhile in New Jersey people are seeing things that are freaking out their kids freaking them out I'd love your thoughts on this okay this is this is incredible I'm gonna go back in time a little bit because I remember covering this very issue back in the 90s, okay? It was March 13th 1997. It's commonly known as the Phoenix Lights case. Oh yeah. And so I covered that case probably for the better part of 10 years, maybe even a little bit longer. On and off I was going back and forth to Phoenix.

And what the amazing thing was, is that you had this massive craft that was sort of a boomerang shaped, and witnesses say anywhere between a mile to two miles from wingtip to wingtip, that went either very slowly, or when it took off, it took off like warp speed, like Star Trek. So everyone was out under the night sky

to get a glimpse of the Hell Bob Comet at the time. So it was witnessed by people all across the state of Arizonarizona and it wasn't two o'clock in the morning Right. It was like eight o'clock six pm seven pm eight pm nine pm It floated all across the state of arizona and the governor of uh at the time fife simington Saw it Okay, but he didn't tell people that he saw it. Instead, he holds, I don't know what it was, a month after it happened, weeks, whatever,

he holds an unscheduled press conference, and he has one of his aides dressed up in an alien suit, you guys probably remember this, and he takes this guy out and ha ha ha, oh, you know, you guys, everyone needs to calm down, whatever. Well I was going around to all of his constituents and they were pissed.

Like how dare you question what we saw. Thousands of us saw it across the state of Arizona. It was like spitting in their eye. And I remember after like, I think it was like right around 10 years, I was revamping an old film I'd done called Out of the Blue. Because I'm never happy with a film when I finish it. I'm always like, you run out of money,

you run out of steam. I remember one point my partner was in a fetal position, his wife is looking at me and you're killing my husband. You know, and I've been there too. So in any case, I'm revamping Out of the Blue and one of my key targets was 5 Simonton because I'd never forgotten that incident 10 years ago where he basically with same thing that's happening today was happening back then. What is that? 27 years ago? So

I was pissed and so was constituents. And so I put out the field, I had like 10 people I want to get interviews with and I got all, I think I had nine out of the 10. And Fife Simonton, to my complete and utter amazement, agreed to meeting with me. And I was driving it and I remember him saying, well, you can either meet with me in Arizona, and at the time I was in Northern California, or I have a place in Santa Barbara. So I was like, I'll just get you as soon as I can possibly get you, because I know a lot of times people start to think and then they go, you know what, in actuality, I'm not going to meet I could possibly get you because I know a lot of times people Start to thinking and then they get oh, you know what an actual alley I'm not gonna meet right I've had that happen a lot of times so he goes well. I'm in Santa Barbara right now

I said I'm getting in the car. I'm coming. I'll be there. I'll be there tomorrow cool, so I drive down I'm on the way down here and the relevance of this story will come clear in a second And I get about halfway down. I think I was taking highway 101, somewhat scenic, well not one, but 101, and I was like, hmm, you know, I can't think of anybody better to ask him a question than one of his former constituents and witness to the event. So I call my friend Stacey Rhodes, and she was an amazing witness.

I said, Stacey, you're not gonna believe who I'm going to meet with right now. And it had been almost 10 years since the incident. And I said, I'm going to meet with right now. And it had been almost 10 years since the incident. And I said, I'm going to meet with 5 Simon's. And she's like, Oh, my gosh. I said, Is there anything you'd like to say to him? Because you're damn right on something I'd like to say. It had been 10 years, but they were so insulted. I mean, these witnesses had literally stopped their car on the freeway and like got out and, you know, I mean, they're apparently on both sides on the freeway and got out and, you know, I mean they were apparently on both sides of the freeway

and this object, it was between Phoenix and Tucson. It was on Interstate 10 and I'm told that there were people stopped on the side of the road, people driving, people stopped, and this object just floated over the top of them and it took minutes. And Stacey Rhodes in particular said, if I had a newspaper and opened it up like that I could not have

blocked out the object. That's how big it was above their head. Her and her daughter, Emily and they had one other person in the car. Anyway, so very good sighting, very good case and so I grabbed my little pocket tape recorder and I recorded a statement from her that I was gonna hit Fife with when the time was right during the interview. So I thought, well, let me not do this. When I met with him the following day, I couldn't believe I was getting an interview

with Fife Simonton. And I said, let me get as much of the interview as I can before I get into this case. So about three quarters of the way through the interview where I'm feeling pretty comfortable, I said, hey, I've got a little something I'd like to play you. Yeah, and so and and he goes well, what is that? I said, it's a recording from one of your constituents and a witness to the event Hit the play button. Hi, this is Stacy Rhodes, you know

Opportunity to address this to you still feel like this is a matter for ridicule and this that and the other thing when you Let us out to dry and we all these thousands of witnesses across the state, and you make this mockery, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I see him sinking down in his chair a little bit. And I didn't know how it was gonna go. And then he stops and he pauses, and he goes, you know what?

Yeah, if I could do it differently now, I would have. He goes, I saw that thing too. And that thing clearly was not of this earth. And he goes, I'm a former captain in the Air Force, I'm a pilot. He goes, that thing was not of this earth. And I said, well, how do you so sure about that? He goes, the size. He said it was like a mile across. It was just floating really slowly. Yeah. So, this has been the party line for decades, right? And that was that policy was sort of adopted after the White House and Capitol was buzzed on two

consecutive weekends in July of 1952, right? It's when they had it was a problem, right? Right. So they brought in that panel I think it was a Robertson panel and they basically like how do we deal with this the Air Force and the Robertson panel? I think it was part of the CIA. I'll just adopt the policy of ridicule and it was very effective campaign No, but why well why what's the reason for gaslighting? What's the reason? I think it's the policy of ridicule. And it was a very effective campaign. But why? Why? What's the reason for gaslighting? What's the reason? I think it's, well, it's not really working

as much these days because people are starting to realize this is bullshit. Because I had a general explain to me one time, excuse me, and he looked at me almost like I was this naive young guy. This is, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago. Because I was always thinking like, oh, isn't it amazing, we're not alone in the universe,

and we have definitive proof, and what a kumbaya moment, and get together and do a group hug, and yay, you know. And he starts chuckling. And he said, you just have no idea how the military looks at this problem. And I said, well, show me, what do you mean? He goes, you know, you guys put us in charge of protecting our airspace, right?

That's our job. And we're not really the types of folks that want to come forward and say, my fellow Americans, it's been brought to our attention that there are structured craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity. They fly rings around our fastest jets. We don't know who they are, where they come from, or what they want. And shall they turn to be hostile, we also have no visible means of defense against them. Thank you and good night. He goes, absolutely not. We don't do that. Yeah. So I think it's one of the reasons why they're calling it drones today. I

mean, maybe they are, but they're calling it drones because I think UAP is a little scary. They think that we're children, we can't handle the truth, and so they're gonna show it, like, you know, downplay it, tell us that they have no idea where they're coming from, yet there's nothing to worry about. Right. So it's like, how can you say what something isn't when you don't know what it is? Right, well, you know, the New Jersey stuff that's happening. It's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable. And it's spreading more places now. It's all over the place, but I'm leaning more into some kind of experimental drone to get ready for potential World War III. And obviously, I don't think that discounts any of the other things that have been happening simultaneously. But what it, to me, emphasizes is what you're talking about.

If you are skeptical that our government, if somehow you're still skeptical that our government is covering some incredible thing up that would probably transform the way we look at everything, you shouldn't be anymore. Watch Mayorkas, watch any of these people as they basically tell you to question your own mind. That to me is so dark. That, you know, if you unravel that, you realize oh obviously if they're doing this about something that people are filming, seeing, news reporters are seeing.

Yeah you're not seeing what you're seeing. Right. If they're doing that about that then they're doing that about everything. Do you remember the remember Jaws? Yeah. You remember the movie where the public statements are making everything's fine? There you go. It's Jaws? Yeah. You remember the movie where the public statements are making, everything's fine? There you go. It's Jaws! Yeah. You know, it's really funny. I did a film on the BP oil spill called Pretty Slick, and I spent several years going back and forth to the Gulf. I flew over ground zero with the ocean on fire, and I was in a sea plane with a marine biologist

by the name of Dr. Carl Saffina, amazing guy, and they were doing something they'd never done before, and they were doing subsea injection with Corexit. So they're pumping the ocean full of Corexit, 5,000 feet down, so they're trying to prevent the oil from coming to the surface because they're getting fined for every barrel, right? So they're doing everything they can, they're hitting the slicks at night with Corexit, they're pumping it down 5,000 feet, so there's these massive plumes of underwater oil mixed all up with this Corexit. Never done big lab tests. And people are, kids are crying on the beaches when they're, you know, you don't know where it is or how bad, you know. And I'm having the water test and it's not super bad with a private lab at the time, but there were

really dangerous levels coming back of toxic water with oil and corrects it. And not everywhere, but anywhere, right? You don't know where it was. And they were like, beaches are safe, everything's fine, come on down. And I'm thinking to myself, they're putting the health and safety of the public ahead of the multi-billion dollar tourist base economy. Yeah, that's right. And I saw it firsthand

Yes, that's it. And that's what they do and they're they think that we can't handle the truth or something like oh, you know We're and hey, you know what if it's even if it's a little scary, it's still reality Well, it's time to treat us like adults. All right this so this to me like it, you know And I I love what you do because you just try to deal with what we know. And so what we know for sure is there's a cover-up. Right now, with the New Jersey. Okay, so. No question.

The car brings something up. Then the explanation for the cover-up where they don't wanna cause panic implies a benevolence. It implies that they give a shit about us. That actually they're like, oh, we don't wanna panic people. That would be bad. Let's push that explanation off the table. What are some other explanations for the cover-up? Because I think that's where it gets really worrisome and fascinating. And I've heard some, and I would love to hear

your thoughts on these. One, they've already made contact. There's some kind of treaty, some kind of deal or something where they are in some weird way collaborating with whatever this is. That's one explanation. Two, the other explanation would be it's not that they're worried about causing panic, but they feel that the revelation of what these things are opens people up to some kind of actual danger. I'm just saying there's a lot of other possible explanations that aren't, because they don't want us to freak out. Because there's so many other things that they show us

that do make us freak out. I don't think the freak out explanation is the right one. I think there's some other thing. Well, you know, another thing to consider, did you watch the program yet? No, I haven't watched it yet. Okay, so I include a rather controversial encounter in the film, and I know that I'm gonna get some flack,

particularly from mainstream, but I justify it in the film by saying, look, you know, don't take it from me. Close encounters of the third kind, that's when people report beans connected to the craft, right? Right. Those are, you know, aliens or beans or creatures or whatever you want to call them. That is one of the aspects of the phenomenon that the Air Force went out of their way to try to tamp down, right? Because one thing when you have an unknown object in the sky, it's another thing entirely when you got

beans on the ground. But I included a rather controversial case in the program because I think there might be an element of, well, okay, so one of the things that I've learned over and over and over is outlandish as it may appear initially, a case, a sighting, a crash. I've learned to suspend judgment because time and time again, I've always been like, that's impossible, that's so outlandish, there's no way that's true. Now I've gotten to the point after 30 years where I go, you know what, James? Stop. Just look at the evidence, review the data, and think about the likelihood of whether this happened or not, because the phenomenon is so complex and so profound and all over the place, right? Imagine if they admitted what they know, okay? So that would expose their vulnerabilities,

because there's so many things that they evidently don't know, right? So it's like you admit, and again, I'm just gonna inform speculation here, right? Inform speculation, I'm not stating any of this is fact. But I've met with some people that I respect that are certainly in a position to know what's going on. And they've told me they're walking among us. And I've said, I said, come on, what are you talking about walking among us?

And they go, I mean exactly that, they're walking among us. In fact, Bob Bigelow told me that. And I did not believe him, I wouldn't say I believe him. Yeah. But it certainly got me thinking a little bit. And so then I thought, well, so let's see. If this case happened in 1994 that I covered in the program, and it was at a Nellis test range, that's a military installation. Would that mean that there was an incursion or was there cooperation? Or what is that? What does that mean? It's just like the depths of the phenomenon has no ends. Like I don't know where,

you know, what I can say definitively is that they know the phenomenon is real. They know it's under intelligent control. They know that the technology exhibited is light years advance from anything that we have. And I've talked to a lot of people, some people say we have ARVs. I have not seen that evidence. I'm not saying it's not true. But I haven't seen enough to make me say I believe that. Right now, I don't believe that.

I know we have the technology. I feel very confident about that from a couple of the crash cases that I believe that. Right now, I don't believe that. I know we have the technology, I feel very confident about that, from a couple of the crash cases that I have investigated. Roswell and more recently, Varginha. Varginha! Varginha's nuts. Holy shit! I know. We gotta get into Varginha. And when I came back from Varginha,

last time, and I was finally putting the movie together, CNN was at my house doing a special with Leslie Kane and they're like, oh my god, we're so excited. You just came back from Brazil. Let's talk about that. You know, and I said, no, actually, I'm not talking about any of that. Because if I do, you're going to tell me to up the dosage of the medication that I'm not on. Let me just put the film out and then we can talk. Okay. But before we get into Varginha, which actually does apply to what you're saying. And it does apply to the program too.

Yes. So let's talk a little bit about the walking among us theory. Yes, yeah, yeah. I can tell you a couple of other things too, yes. Well, it is an interesting thing that some people who don't reject it just out of habit, because I think a lot of people, they just, they don't care if it's an Air Force pilot. They don't care if it's whistleblowers with great credibility saying this stuff. They've been so programmed by people like that. What's his name?

Great name, by the way, the guy you interviewed. Len Val Logan? Or no, Hal Putoff? No, the Phoenix Lights. Oh, yeah, Fife Symington. Fife, people like five whether they know it or not have engaged in a long-term program of

Getting people to just naturally reject anything that doesn't fit into The paradigm that the federal government is offering us regarding what's happening in the skies So but the people who aren't in that category and accept, okay, there's something happening, it seems intelligent, it's been going on for a long time. For some reason, they don't make the connection that, okay, if it's an intelligent craft, a drone, whatever it may be, why do you think

they would stop in the sky? If I was observing, researching, or even trying to influence a civilization, then I wouldn't stop in the sky. I obviously would find a way to infiltrate power structures to figure them out. And so logically, if we're, and again, a lot of assumptions here, I'm going to assume this is an advanced intelligence

relative to ours. And maybe it's too much assuming to imagine that they're like us in any way. But clearly there's some curiosity there. No question. They're curious. There's a curiosity and also there's decorum happening. And they wanna be seen.

And they wanna be seen. But they don't want to Overtly make their presence unequivocally known right so they're a little in on it as well. That's right. That's and you know again Pure speculation speculation, but that's pretty solid I could back it up with some pretty good cases and at that point That's where we get in a weird felt because at that point now you have to start asking yourself and I think it's and I don't know if this is a good practice but if you if you zoom back and

look at all of what's happening right now technologically on the planet if you look at it holistically including this uptick this insane uptick in UAPs then you have to ask yourself how much of the technology that we are currently using, AI for example, the new Willow quantum chip from Google, how, if they're walking among us, how much of what we're discovering and figuring out how to do is an actual human innovation and how much of it has

been in some way influenced by these beings for whatever reason they might have for doing that. Do you ever follow the – do you ever go down that rabbit hole? Yeah. So I interviewed a guy named Philip Corso back in the 90s. He was at the 50th anniversary of Roswell. He was one of the highest level at the time military officials that came forward and said, I saw the bodies.

I handled some of the debris at the Pentagon in the officials that came forward and said, I saw the bodies, I handled some of the debris at the Pentagon in the 50s and 60s. It was infiltrated into these government subcontractors, Boeing and Lockheed and whatever, is what he was saying at the time. But I don't know if people were quite ready, but maybe some people were, but I guess I'd say I believed him, I guess, because if we did have it. But he said unknowingly that they were seeding these companies with some little bits of technology, right? Yeah.

Though there was that. And then I wanted to get back to them walking among us because this is really crazy. And it's a story that I have in the back of my mind. I've never reported on it, although I've talked a little bit about it, and I think about it often, and I hope something uncovers, I hope it uncovers itself at some point, but I was investigating a case when I was doing the phenomenon that happened in 1964 in Socorro, New Mexico, and it's considered to be one of the most well-documented close encounters of the third kind in U.S. history. It was one of the most well-documented close encounters of the third kind in US history.

It was one of the cases that turned Dr. Jalen Heineck a dead a 180 on because it was very, very compelling. It was a police officer by the name of Lonnie Zamora. And so I went to the town of Socorro over a five-year period. I got to know his wife, his coworkers, his kids. I went to the National Archives. I befriended one of the guys that wrote the book on the case, and I was really sticking my teeth into this close encounter

of the third kind where there were entities witnessed at the scene, lots of physical evidence at the ground. I mean, it was a great case. Anyway. What physical evidence? Imprints, burn marks in the bushes, footprints from the creatures, landing gear imprints. Other people saw the craft in the air in and around the area. So like enough enough physical evidence that something happened. No one hoaxed that. No, no.

It was like if you want the amount of energy it would take. The Air Force tried for 10-15 years to give it a prosaic explanation and they couldn't. So a very good case. But anyway, in the process of investigating that case, I came upon an alleged landing that was filmed by the Air Force or the military at White Sands. Now White Sands, right around the same time, is just a stone's throw from Socorro. And it was commonly referred to as the Holloman UFO landing case. I think it's circa 1964, May, June, I don't have the exact month, but I investigated that case. It was kind of a tangent that I went off on,

but I was thinking, how you got a landing, excuse me, evidently a landing at Holloman Air Force Base in 1964 that was filmed, and the disc comes down and the door opens and out comes some aliens and they meet with base commanders and off they go. Now if that's true that means we've had contact and communication with a non-human intelligence dating back what 50, 60 years ago. Yeah, at least. At least. And we have that photographic proof or videotape evidence. So I started kind of investigating that quietly, but I didn't really want it to be publicly known because it's so crazy, like landing and filmed.

And I thought, well, James, just, you know, again, suspend judgment. Let's keep digging a little bit. Because I believed Socorro had happened. Well, why not have a camera? So I started looking into it more. It led me eventually to two guys that made a documentary called UFOs past present or future Alan Sandler and

Bob Emanager Bob Bob Emanager just passed unfortunately a couple years ago, but I did do an extensive two-hour interview with him I also met with Alan Sandler and At the time of production in the early 70s these guys had unprecedented for whatever reason And at the time of production in the early 70s, these guys had unprecedented, for whatever reason, access to all these military bases. And they just like given carte blanche to make this documentary.

And in the documentary, they refer to the Holman landing case as maybe an event that might have already happened, or maybe it's going to happen in the near future. That's how they propose it. But they had, again, unprecedented access to all these military people. All these military people, people that were involved with the Roger Blue Book, were all participating in the film.

So I was like- Why? Why were they participating? Like if the ideas, they're covering it up, why- Testing the waters on Disclosure, I don't know. I don't know. So anyway, so I, long story short, man, I could go on all night on this one, but I basically got in touch with both Eminegar, I got in touch with Alan Sandler,

I met with them both multiple times, and Alan told me that he saw that footage. I said, well, wait a minute, what footage are you talking about, he goes, the landing footage at home, and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, you saw the footage of the flying saucer coming down, and the aliens getting out and interacting with the base commanders.

Yes, he says, I saw that footage. I said, okay, well now when I want. This episode of the DTFH has been supported by Better Help. The holidays are upon us. And you know, one thing I've noticed about the holidays is there is a wonderful aspect to the holidays, but there's also a feeling of getting run over by a truck. It's like a combination, like feeling you get with a nice hot mug of cocoa and having your legs smashed to pulp by someone holding an emotional sledgehammer.

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H-E-L-P dot com slash Duncan. When I want to really like burn, etch my memory with a specific case or incident, I usually close my eyes and I allow the witness to use his words, his or her words to recreate the visuals in my head so I can really get it, right? Like, I want to see it, I want to be there. So I asked Alan, I was like, I want you to give me every detail. Was it daylight? Was it this?

Was the camera on tripod? Was it, you know? And he said... And so basically, what he described was a... And there are a lot of people that wrote articles about it in and around the time that it happened. There were witnesses on the base, both military, civilian, pilots that saw it from the air, people that saw it from the ground. All sorts of articles around the time that it happened were written by a woman named

Coral Lorenzen at the UFO bulletin. But anyway, he says that there were three disks coming in, it was, I think it was early afternoon, three disks coming in with the base that were followed by military jets. And then as it got over the base, the two by military jets. And then as it got over the base, the two of the discs peeled away and there was one that kind of wobbled like a leaf down to the ground. And Alan said it looked like to me it was in trouble, because it wasn't like doing very well. But evidently that's kind of how they how those discs fly. They kind of wobble like they're unstable. And he goes, Plunk lands around the base. And he goes, plunk, it lands right on the base.

And he goes, you know, James, he goes, just like in the sci-fi movies, it's like the seamless door opened and out came two, I guess for the better part, it was aliens. And then the third one came out and a little different. It had a big head gear, almost like Egyptian or something. Excuse me, vertical slits for eyes, big nose, very small chin, small mouth, and they had a, according to Alan who saw the footage, they had a, this individual had a

device that looked almost like a microphone or something, but it was, he assumed it was a communication device, but he wasn't sure. And then the base commanders met with them out and then and then this one individual, alien or whatever, got in the Jeep and they drove off to, I don't know, a bunker, whatever the hell they wanted. Front seat or back seat of the Jeep? I know, I didn't get that detail. Seatbelt? Seatbelt? What do you do? I know. So anyway, so I've been quietly and discreetly looking into this. And based on

my belief that's leaning more in the direction that it happened than it didn't happen, I'm talking to all sorts of intel folks these days off the record that tell me they do believe it happened and they know, they think they know where that footage is. And Arrow is currently looking for the footage. I know that they've heard about it But based on that I decided to leave the 1994 Jason Sands And again, you haven't seen the film yet his his description of a face-to-face encounter at a military base with if it's true an alien and You know and I know that it's a slippery slope and it's a tall order to

get people like, I just want to say, in my own defense, that it's difficult to get more information on something on a particular case without reporting on it first. So I'm reporting on it. I'm not stating it as fact, but I'm saying, I believe that this might just have happened. Wow. And so, you know, again, it's like going down that wormhole of like, where does it stop? Where does the crazy end, right? You know, but the thing is, once you buy in to, we have unknown craft, intelligently controlled by non-human entities, why would they stop in the sky? And to me, if you're gonna accept that part,

you've gotta kind of accept the other part, and it really isn't that weird. And that, I think- Somebody's piloting them. And this answers what we were initially talking about. Because here's what's interesting in the idea that the government's covering all this stuff up for, they don't want us to know that they don't control the skies or technology or whatever, is it makes the aliens kind of this innocent

party in this situation. But the moment that there is some communication, participation happening, it gets a little sinister because it would imply that these beings are instructing the governments of the world to not reveal certain bits of information. And that kind of conspiracy between an off-world intelligence and the leaders of the world is pretty terrifying. So I've gotten to the point now where I feel pretty comfortable saying that whoever they are, they clearly are in on the secrecy because all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day Parade and it's game over, right?

That's right. So they do do some pretty brazen things. I mean, if you look into the Phoenix likes case in 97, that's pretty brazen. I mean, it was really enough. Oh yeah, they just flew right over, just a whole parade of them. So that was pretty a big deal.

That happened today, there'd be a lot of them. Yeah. So that was pretty a big deal. I mean, that happened today, there'd be a lot of footage. Right. Not 2006 or 2005 or 2006 at O'Hare Airport. Are we guys familiar with that case? A disk that hovered over Terminal 17 at United Airlines? Yes, but please re-describe. I remember when that happened. Yes, yes. Pretty brazen. Pretty brazen. We had a disk that was hovering over terminal 17 United Airlines Right and for quite some time in broad daylight and was witnessed by a lot of United Airlines workers Yeah, people on the ground pilots people took I'm told at least one photograph of it was taken I don't know what happened to that and disappeared but Pretty brazen and then when the object took off it took off vertically and it punched a doughnut hole in the cloud on the way

Out all the witnesses described it Pretty brazen. And then when the object took off, it took off vertically and it punched a donut hole in the cloud on the way out. All the witnesses described it. Wow. Pretty crazy case. I mean, it's hovering over O'Hare Airport. 2005? Was that 2005 or 2006? Trying to remember. Anyway, but it's... I remember it. Great case. In fact, I was investigating that case. What year was that? I was investigating that case in

2008 and I had a whole camera crew with me and I was interviewing folks in Arizona doing some updates on the massive flyover from 1997, which was about 11 years after the incident, and I was gonna fly from there to O'Hare Airport and try to get a couple of people to go on the record or go anonymously, come forward, employees from United Airlines. And then a massive, massive UFO incident happened in Stephenville, Texas in late 2008. And I diverted my efforts from going to O'Hare. So I didn't, I never really got boots on the ground there. And I went to Texas and covered that case anyway, instead.

Okay, now this- You remember that case in Stephenville? No, what was that case? Oh my God, they said you could have landed an airplane on it. The object was so huge. Okay, I have to ask you, you have a very bizarre job. Yeah.

And you have to live in the fringes of things. Like even telling people what you do is Probably either gonna be met by people like me or like hello Or it's gonna be met by people are like oh, yeah I know I've been dealing with that my whole life, and it's fine You know I get laughed at and ridiculed but but a lot less so these days, but yeah Yeah, right, then that's got to feel good, but I'm wondering like you know you just doing this podcast where where I get to interview people like you and

people have very interesting stories or spiritual outlooks on the world, from time to time, I feel a little wobbled, you know? Like, I like to think of myself as someone who's like open and open to the unknown and stuff. But every once in a while, it's too much unknown. And you realize how attached you are to default reality in ways you didn't think you were. Do you experience that in your own life? Oh my gosh, just in the last, probably the making of the, okay. So I did, for the first time, I've been doing documentaries on UFOs for 30 years. So I did a film called The Phenomenon.

And The Phenomenon was the first documentary and it was probably, let's see, I did 50 years of Denial, then I did Out of the Blue version 1, Out of the Blue Director's Cut, then I did I Know What I Saw. So that was like three and a half films. And I'd never touched on Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I'd heard about them, but it was a little bit of a half film. Yeah, and I'd never touched on close encounters of the third kind wouldn't be I'd heard about them, right? But I just a little bit of a slippery slope. I was like, sure I'm gonna step back on that one a little bit Well, I went all in on The phenomenon did you ever watch the phenomenon? No, I haven't seen it yet. So the phenomenon's got Intel folks

It's got former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Yeah, got best Got Republicans Democrats amazing, amazing. But, excuse me, I cover close encounters of the third kind and I cover, okay, an event that occurred in 1994 at a school called Ariel School in Rua Zimbabwe, Africa. Yes, yes. And it was roughly a hundred school children. People think there's like 66. There was more, I was there. It was more like 100 school children that were out on the field when this object came in and in and around the area of Zimbabwe, Harare at the time, South Africa. There were UFO reports, sightings by adults, by all sorts of people in and around the area. But this object or objects chose a

school to land in broad daylight. It was on morning recess and it was like 10 o'clock in the morning and all the kids were out there playing. And a number of disks came down out of the sky, landed, got out, and these little creatures interacted telepathically with the kids. Now, I opted to report on this case and I really did a deep somewhat of a deep dive considering I only probably only spent maybe 12 to 15 minutes max in the film maybe 12. That was the first time I'd ever kind of gone all in on reporting on something. I remember like a couple years when I started to dig my teeth into that case and I had this investor and he goes, he goes, and you mean to tell me there's fucking aliens landing at a school in the aerial school, are you kidding me?

I'm not wasting a dime on that bullshit. I said, Larry, hold on a second, I understand that knee-jerk reaction, I had to too. Just please, look at this, look at Dr. John Mack from Harvard, look he's on the ground talking to the kids. Like please, just listen, I'm just trying to get him to listen to it. And then I got him on board. I said, give me five minutes. And I showed him some

of the testimony from the kids right after it happened that was taken, interview was taken by Dr. John Mack, who was a Harvard psychiatrist. Very impressive stuff, right? So he was like, ooh, God, maybe let me rethink this. Anyway, I reported on it. Okay. And I was terrified at the time because I had just interviewed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and he wanted to see the whole movie before it was gonna be released for obvious reasons. Wow.

Who he is. I'm like, he's gonna look at that case at the end with the aliens talking to the kids and he didn't say, you need to cut me out of that movie. I was like, oh my God, I'm so worried about it. But I reported on it anyway. And not only did he not ask to be removed from the film, he actually publicly endorsed it. Wow. It was amazing. So then I went from there,

and now I'm covering an alleged UFO crash, moment of contact. Now, this case that happened in 1996 in Virginia, Brazil, is dealing with a UFO that was in distress, that a number of people witnessed it crash, one guy in particular witnessed it crash, but a lot of people saw the UFO before it crashed. And then two days or a day or two days later, just a few miles away in the town of Virginia, Brazil, people are reporting these strange creatures in broad daylight. It's an amazing case and these creatures are captured, they're taken in alive. Can you describe the creatures and describe the UFO sighting?

Yes. So the UFO was January 20th, 1996, and the UFO was described as a cigar-shaped object, metallic, with no visible means of propulsion, no wings, no just totally unusual cylindrical shape. Metallic? Like a stainless steel or like a metallic, yeah, like tin foil kind of color. And this guy named Carlos de Sazzo actually went to the crash site after we took him there after 20 something years. And then people started seeing these strange creatures, the local military police were involved, the doctors from Humanitas Hospital were

involved because the creatures were taken to the hospital, they were captured in the streets. I mean it was just, it's a crazy story. What did the creatures look like? They were brown, they had big red eyes, you could look up Varginha. Can you grab that Josh? Yeah. and they had big red eyes brown skin bigger heads slits for mouths and spindly weak feeble bodies and oily brown skin like oily no hair take it easy they were they weren't that why are you bullying these four that's it right there So that's on the far left, that's Katya. Sorry, click on that one right there, yeah.

So you'll see, oh this is my buddy Michael Schellenberger. Yeah, he wrote that. Anyway, that's the guy that saw the UFO crash. That's the creature. That is, red eyes, they're drunk, it's hammered. Horns, like little horn. Yeah, weird little protuberance. Yeah, I know.

But anyway, my point is, it's like, so I'm now, so I go from reporting only on the craft for the first, what, 20 plus years of my career, and then I was off Screw It, and I reported on alleged close encounters of the third kind, which is a slippery slope, let's be honest, right? And then now I'm reporting on a UFO crash and live aliens walking through the town of Virginia, right? And I tell people, it's like, soon as I start talking about it, they look at me, I lose them, and I had my next-door neighbor

who runs Make-A-Wish Foundation, this guy Jamie, big supporter of mine, he's good friends with the guy, Brian Benner, political magazine, and he goes, James, I love you, brother, I respect you, but you lost me on this one I'm sorry and I was like hey I don't blame you I understand so now then I do the crash retrieval case right that the Americans are involved with yeah Americans came in and swooped up the debris Bill Clinton's president he was Bill Clinton was president yep and I've been so I've been tracking that down that flight down United States Air Force flight that came in and landed in Campinas.

So I'm investigating that now. So then I go from that to asking sitting members of Congress, do we have aliens and flying UFOs, flying saucers in our possession? Never in a hundred million years did I ever think I'd be asking a sitting member of Congress from both parties, do we have aliens? And not be laughed out of the room or blocked from DC altogether. Instead it's like one of them was like yes, the other one's like you know due to my security clearances I can't answer, I gotta stare away from that, but I encourage your

ongoing investigations and keep pushing us for transparency and blah blah blah. That's happening right now. Yep, that's happening. And then three months after Moment of Contact comes out, well, sorry, I went on Rogan in April of 2023 talking about Moment of Contact, and I'm sure that Joe Rogan, just like everybody else, myself included, when he first heard about that, he was like, oh, bullshit. Like, there's no way, it's impossible. But then you listen to the testimony from people on the ground, and including the mayor, like all these people in the town, it's very impressive. And then that was April 2023 that Rogan reported on it. And in July

of 2023, the highest level intelligence officer, David Grush, testifies under oath to a joint brush testifies under oath to a joint group of bipartisan lawmakers that we have definitive evidence that we're not alone. What do they call it? Non-human biologics? They call it non-human intelligence and biologics. Biologics! Never heard of biologics. Sounds like a skin cream.

Why do they talk like this? That's the other thing is like even though when they are disclosing... It's so technical. It's so other thing is like even though when they are disclosing so technical, it's it's so biologics. You got alien meat. That's what it is. Now, it's this, you know, would you say that I would have never seen that? I would have never none of us.

None of us would have seen any of this coming. And I had people at the time telling me, James, you just came off the phenomenon. One of the first times that a documentary on the topic has such high level cooperation from Intel, from Congress people, senators, you really push the envelope with the closing counts of the third kind and now you want to report on live aliens walking through the town of Virginia? You're going to tarnish your reputation. You're going to jeopardize all your efforts. Do you really want to do this?

I don't think people in New Jersey are going to say that. Because this is what's interesting to me is, you know, you see an echo. We're pushing the envelope a little further every time That's what I meant. I love it and but again. I just think it's worth noting. I know we already mentioned it earlier Why if you are okay admitting that there's whatever you want to call them UAPs whatever why then is it even? Considered like out of like you you can't say that they're they have bodies that they're walking around that that's too much man if they're here they're here and and so okay to go back a little bit though so my brain's been

exploding for the last couple of years just because you asked me earlier we have that moment yes I've been having that moment but this this actually okay I'm gonna skip what I was gonna ask. This is another question I have for you. So obviously we have precedent throughout US history for whistleblowers being threatened, murdered, suicided, et cetera. And what I've heard, whatever you wanna call it, the deep state or whatever group or small group of people is behind covering this stuff up. They also, I think Grush was threatened.

I think Grush had some stuff go down. So have you experienced anything like that? And are you worried that if you finally break through, if you get close enough, that you could be in danger. Yeah, so I mean I'm public enough at this point where I feel a little more comfortable, right? I've been spooked a couple of times over the years. I could go into those cases if you want. I would love to hear that. I mean I don't want to waste too much of your time. I want to get into Virginia Moore, but I would love to hear about that.

So I had a whole crew with me at the time and there was a mass sighting, when I say a mass sighting, like the town of Stephenville in Dublin, Texas, 2008. Was the end of 2008 or was early 2009? Might have been both. Sometimes they span over several weeks or a month. And there was one particular witness, Ricky Sorrels. He was a deer hunter. And he was... So, the whole town saw something. The local police department were coming, there were people coming forward. I mean,

they had a whole town hall meeting and press conference, and it was in the news, and Larry King Live covered it. I mean, it was kind of a big deal, but there was one particular person that I'd heard about that a lot of people saw it at a distance. There were some military jets chasing this thing. It was apparently huge. I mean, just colossal, like similar in size to the one that was over Phoenix, Arizona, where it's like a mile across, two miles across, some of the witnesses described, including the governor. So there was a guy named Ricky Sorrell, big tough guy, super sweetheart, and he was deer hunting and he said he was looking down going through the forest with his rifle and he had a scope on it.

And he goes, James, you know, we have these like dry leaves from the oak trees, and if I step on the dry leaves, that could make a sound and scare the deer. So I was looking down as I was navigating my way through the forest, and it was like dusk. And I was going hunting, and all of a sudden, he goes, I don't know, I just felt compelled to look up. And so he stopped in the forest, and I went to the exact location I filmed with him for

a film I did called I Know What I Saw. And he goes, I looked up, and there above me was a craft so big he goes I couldn't see the edge in any direction Wow, and so he goes I'm a metal worker man I I know metals yeah, so I picked up my rifle. I looked through the scope what yeah And he was looking through the scope and he said he was examining the metal of this thing Oh, I thought you were gonna say shot at all so he's looking at it, and he's going, God, there's no welds, there's no rivets, it's seamless. There are these inverted recessed cone type things

in the belly of this thing. And he goes, James, you could have landed an airplane on it. He goes, you know, I was just kind of curious. I was going to fire my gun at it. He goes, I was just curious if it was going to ricochet off or like it would absorb the bullet. And he had his finger on the trigger and he's looking through the scope and he's about to pull it and he goes, Maybe this isn't such a good idea. Yeah, so he decides no, I'm not going to shoot at it. So But he almost did. So anyway,

So I'm trying to get this story on camera, but he's like hell. No, I'm not going on camera. He goes up, he told me the whole story because I'm not. I'm absolutely not going on camera. The local military base is harassing me. They're coming by at night and they're flying their helicopters over my house and lighting me up. He goes, I'm right outside in my underwear with my shotgun, you know, and they're lighting me up like daylight. Yeah. So we called the local base and he goes, and this is all happening right around the time

when we're in the middle of the night, and he goes, I'm going to go to the with my shotgun, you know, and they're lighting me up like daylight. So we called the local base and he goes, and this is all happening right around the time when I was out there trying to get an interview with him. I was going to his house and he was off the beaten path. And he tells the base, he goes, stop flying over my house. And they said, that's our aerospace.

That's our aerospace. We'll do what the hell we want in our aerospace. I suggest you stop talking about what you saw fuck. This was serious. This is happening Yeah, you look at Ricky Searles. He's a big strong Texan man Yeah, nope with Ricky Searles right right and he was frightened and we're out there And I was trying to get him to talk to me and all of a sudden a delivery truck like randomly Yeah, pulls in. We're all like, the whole production team was like,

the hell is this guy? You don't just accidentally go on his road and drive down, some delivery truck came down, and we all felt like we were being watched. That was one of the times that we all felt spooked. We stayed at this local hotel, and I remember the sound guy, who's not even into UFOs, he's like, dude, I'm spooked because I feel like we're being watched.

I was like, I feel really spooked too. And Ricky Sorrell's was totally spooked. And anyway, so that was one time. And then another, there was another time that happened in a little spooked and when I was in, I did an event at the National Press Club in Washington, DC with Leslie Kane in 2007. We flew in 14 military and government officials from seven countries and they testified as the reality of the UFO phenomena then I ended up making a two-hour special called I know what I saw yeah the History Channel and During that presentation. There were guys in dark suits. We had the we had the

The ballroom at the National Press Club's one of the bigger rooms And there's a balcony up top all the activities going on down down below uh, the ballroom at the National Press Club. It's one of the bigger rooms. And there's a balcony up top. All the activities going on down below. I barely even knew that there was a balcony up there. Very narrow. There's a balcony up there. And there were military guys that I had brought in, generals and stuff, and they were like, you see those guys up there, right? And I look and there are men in suits, dark suits, all sitting up there looking down. And I was like, oh, that's a little spooky. Yeah. Like, what agencies are those guys from?

And so I just felt, you know, just a little weird. And then you get like cases where people are spooked. I mean, I was spooked when I was shooting in Virginia. Last time I was shooting in Virginia, the military base started calling all the people that we had either just met with or that we were about to meet with. So it was like who's quicker to get to the witnesses, right? Right. The base would call the witnesses and they'd say, this is as a military base in Brazil,

this just happened. They'd call the witness and say, hey, so-and-so, hey, how you doing? You still living at this address? Shit. Oh, good, good. How's the family doing? Oh, still living at this address? Shit. Oh, good, good. How's the family doing? Oh, good, good, good. Yeah. Hey, there's an American filmmaker poking around asking questions and stuff.

They reach out to you by any chance? Oh, man. Yeah. Okay. All right, good. Well, glad the family's good. Oh, my God. Yeah, that kind of shit. That's so okay. So this

And I they were hip to me. I'm sorry. I'm forgetting a little dark here for just one second. Yes You know Take a look at um, oh my god Snowden. Yeah Assange. Yeah to me You know what they did? To me, you know, what they did pushed forward the idea of truth. That we can handle the truth, we deserve the truth. Maybe the methods they used, you could question them, but maybe more in Assange than Snowden. I feel like...

And what about Gary McKinnon? Which one's McKinnon? Gary McKinnon is the biggest computer hack in history trying to find out the truth on UFO McKinnon He's in my movie. Okay. Wow Wow, you got it. Okay, but to finish my point almost locked him up for life I know we're trying to trying to steal the truth. Well each of these people What I find interesting right I don't know as much about McKinnon

as these two, is that in their ability to get secret information, to read it, they got an idea of who they're up against, what these people are like behind closed doors. And yet, it seems like they underestimated the reality of realities, which is these people will not just arrest you, they'll harass you, they'll expose, they'll try to expose, they'll use any method possible to— I cover this in the program. Okay, so this, I just—don't you worry? Like you are exactly, you are in a position, I know a few other people who research this phenomena and I worry about them.

It's like, man, don't you understand, like if these people really don't want you to know something and you find that thing out, they'll do anything to erase that information, or you, or to ruin your life. And don't you worry about that. How do you protect yourself? I know it's great you are a famous documentarian, very respected, but how do you ensure that you or your family? Yeah, no, those thoughts do come to mind.

Not for the first, well, maybe the first 15, 20 years, I wasn't really that concerned about it, and then a couple things happened, and I was like kind of spooked a little bit. And then I thought, well, if I get my name out there, it'll be a little better. Now, if I had that definitive proof, like I've been going after this video evidence

from Varginha, Brazil, I've been going out for photographic evidence, that's an ongoing effort, I've been sifting through messages, 500 plus messages, maybe even more, and trying to follow up every possible lead. I've got 11 really solid leads. Now I thought about, okay, so I go back to Brazil, I get the video, now I'm a target.

Now I definitely have something to worry about. I know that for a fact. They're threatening people that just saw something right now Imagine if you saw something and you had tangible evidence, right? That's a that's gonna be a problem, right? Right, so I've thought about it And that worries me a little bit. So I thought maybe the next time I go to Brazil Maybe I should have a little security just yeah, maybe one person just I don't know. Yeah, just a little concerned. Yeah, I mean't know, just a little concerned. But now, again, what definitely is on my radar is that you have that definitive piece of

evidence that they've so desperately tried to obfuscate, disappear, destroy, collect. I'll give you a good example. There's a really good photograph featured in the program. If you don't know Providence, you could think, oh, maybe this is AI generated or whatever, but it's from 1919, Calvin, Scotland. And I'd heard about it through an investigator who was part of, who was working at the MOD in the 90s on the UFO desk. His name is Nick Pope. And I was interviewing him while he was still at the MOD for a number of my documentaries.

And I would always ask him, hey, you investigated UFOs, what was the best case? And just boom, he'd go, oh, man, these two guys were hiking out in the wilderness out in a place called... You know what? He didn't say Calvary because I don't think he wanted me to know that. But he said in Scotland, two guys, broad daylight, had a camera. It was either five or six photographs of the most amazing diamond-shaped, disc-shaped object, broad daylight, points of reference with a military jet flying around. I was like, Oh, my God, what happened to that picture around. I was like, oh my god, what

happened to that picture? And he's like, oh man, they covered that up and da da da da. But I never really had quite, I obviously didn't have the picture. I'd heard about it for over 20 years. And I was quietly following the case and going after it, following up with Nick, like, come on, there must be people at the MOD, they wouldn't have just thrown this picture away. And so anyway, a guy named David Clark really stuck his teeth into this case. And he started sifting through FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act, I guess the equivalent in England where they release redacted documents. And one of the redacted documents he got just a couple of years ago said, you know, I was

talking about the case and it said, so and so from the Royal Air Force press department, PR department, and then blank, right? His name was redacted. So he just looked up 1990 press and they got ahold of this guy, Craig Lindsay, who was part of the public press or whatever from 1990 PR for the Royal Air Force, Craig Lindsay. And it turns out Craig Lindsay had kept a print. So now we got, we got the, we got, I did an on-camera interview with him, I did an on-camera interview with the with the researchers and then probably about a week, I had a week of production left on the program. This guy, Services, who was there, he was friends with the people that took the picture. And the relevance of this will come clear in a second.

So his name is Richard Greaves. And Richard Greaves gave a print interview, but not an ever on camera or an audio interview. And he promised me through David Clark that I can get an interview with him. And I didn't know, I was so desperately wanting to know, like, what happened to the photographers? What happened to the witnesses? That for all intents and purposes, they wanted to publish this story. They went to the local newspaper. They had six prints. It was at least six. Sorry, it was at least five, possibly

six. And it was 35 millimeter film. Okay? Two witnesses, broad daylight disc, UFO. Absolutely amazing. Then, finally Richard Greaves gives me an interview, I'm bored with the details, how long it took. I kept week after week, I was like, the film's done. I know I'm not trying to pass to you. I didn't want to push too hard because I pushed people too hard and they get frustrated and they just pull out and they're gone. And I knew how important this interview was. So I just leaned on him just enough, you know, just leaned. I would send him a text, hey, if you're still considering now's the time, you know. So finally at like 10.30 at night or late at night,

he calls me up and I'm on the East Coast and he's like, it's Richard Graves. He's like, I've had a couple pints, I'm ready. I was like, he's got it. Awesome, yeah. So he tells this crazy story about the guys that he worked with in the kitchen and what had happened. And then he starts telling me about this car that shows up at night at the hotel when they were working, they were on

a cigarette break. And I was like, so they told you this? He goes, no, I was there. I was like, you were there when a car pulled up at night on a cigarette this? He goes, No, I was there. I was like, You were there when a car pulled up at night on a cigarette break. He goes, Yeah, and these men, he goes, they were f**king spooks. They were men in black. And they came up in his description of the whole case. Phenomenal. I mean, it's one of the most memorable scenes in the whole movie. My point is this, if that's true, if what he's saying is true and he's willing to take a polygraph test, then it is. He swears on his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren's live on this.

It's true. Yes, I knew them. I worked with them in the kitchen. I made poached eggs. They made toast. I swear to God. So anyway, Men many black came up Took the witnesses who took the photographs pulled them aside

They came back in 15 10 minutes later They came back inside. He goes. They were white as a fucking ghost and They ended up drinking heavily quit their jobs, and they disappeared for 34 years, and they're gone So the prints are gone, the witnesses are gone. And we put out a statement in the film, you know, if anyone has any information on that to get in touch with us. So we have a friend that worked with them in the kitchen, we have the photograph, we have the former press officer for the Royal Air Force, Craig Lindsay, who interviewed the witnesses and talks about what they described seeing and taking the pictures of and their intention. And then we have the guy at the MOD who talks about the fact they just wanted to kill the

story because it didn't fit the party line that nothing of any defense interest is related or national security to UFOs. When you've got a crystal clear broad daylight five prints of a disc of an object that's inexplicable that's hovering and then you have a military jet going around it, they wanted to kill that story and they did. Okay, this leads me to the next question. Forgive me in advance, just point blank. Is there anything that you know that you can't talk? Yes

Wow, and what why even said why why why can't you well so so I said to the individuals that gave me this information And they're definitely in a position to know Couldn't I just say that I heard us? Nope. No, you can't say that. I was like, I can't say I just heard that I heard it's nope no you can't say that I was like I can't say I just heard it no I read it no yep so how does that feel well because well first of all if I did say it that would be it my trust would be over right it would be a long I can't I have to respect those contacts and I respect their concern for violating whatever. And so is my life better for knowing it? This episode of the DTFH has been supported by AG1. Listen, friends, the holidays are upon us and if you have kids, you know what that's like.

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And AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift when you sign up. You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com forward slash dunkin to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com forward slash dunkin to start your new year on a healthier note. Thank you AG1. Yes and no. Because I'm really curious and I've been on this mission for a long time. Yes and no.

Because I'm really curious and I've been on this mission for a long time. So I feel like, gosh, I'd like to have more proof. I kind of want to believe it. Do I believe it? I don't just believe it because these individuals said it happened. I mean, it certainly, excuse me, I want to believe it. I don't know how to process it. I don't know how to process it. Right.

I don't know. I don't know, man. Well, that's the thing. See, whatever... It's hard to say. I don't know if it's better than I know. I don't know. I'm not going to try to dig it out if you don't.

Yeah, no, I won't reveal it. I can't. But I think what you just demonstrated is very similar to what a lot of people in Congress, when you see them get the top secret meetings, they come out having heard something, and they can't say it either. Why is it fucking ghost? Why is it ghost?

And that to me, that what, so people like me who are very interested, we can, you know, in a weird way, just with that bit of data and other bits of data just like it that you get, you see two main things. One, there really appears to be a behind the scenes war happening between people who do know this stuff. There seems to be a group of people who are like, fuck no, we don't talk about it.

Another group of people who feel like we have a right we don't talk about it. And another group of people who feel like we have a right to know, people have a right to know. And these two people seem to be in some terrible struggle right now. And that's where the whistleblowers come from. That's where the leaks come from. The other thing though that I- I could say one thing.

Yes. It involves photographic evidence. Well, you know. And the individuals that I spoke to had personally handled this material. Holy shit. Yeah, and it blew my fucking mind. Yeah, and you can't say if you saw the photographs. I did not see, I did not. But I hear this story, you know, and it's

This is another thing that I wonder and I wonder about myself too. It's the slow drip disclosure theory. Disclosure with a small D. And from other people who are engaged in, the sort of research you're engaged in, similar stories, which is I don't wanna betray them. They're giving me little bits and pieces. My career would be over if I talked about it publicly right done

Nobody would ever talk to me again. So but the implication is they recognize your work. Yes, they trust you Yes, and they want to they want to use you not in a bad way, but they want to use people like you to Slow drip. Yeah this information into the into default reality. Yeah, and then I have to ask Why a slow drip this information into default reality. And then I have to ask, why a slow drip? Why the slow drip? I don't think that, like if it all came out at once, I think it'd be too much. Like if you look at my progression over the years, right?

When I first got started investigating the phenomenon, I thought my best friend, Renee Harris, had lost his mind. He was in a high school buddy of mine. We went across Europe together. We did all kinds of road trips. And he started talking about, like, out of the blue, he started talking about aliens and Roswell and UFOs. And I was like, this guy's lost his marbles.

Like, I remember thinking, I might have to cut him loose. I'm gonna lose one of my best friends. Right, right. And so that was my psyche, right? That was my reaction initially. And then I started delving into it and it took me 15, maybe 20 years to before I... yeah, 20 years before I decided to report, just report on close encounters of the third kind. Right. Then I went beyond that next time.

Now I'm going to report officially on a UFO crash, relatively modern. Right. And now suddenly I'm finding myself reporting on an alleged, an alleged crash retrieval program and an alleged close encounter of the third kind face to face in the desert with on duty military officials, officers. And that encounter is probably one of the most nuts, if true. I wouldn't have reported on it if I didn't think there was, like the individual said, I'll take a public lie detector test.

I had the names of the other on-duty officers that were with me at the time. We have a location, we have a date. So I decided to leave it in there. But that encounter is nuts. Like when I first heard about it, I was like... And I remember I was with Christopher Mellon. We're having dinner in DC and Chris looks at me and he goes, it's pretty nuts.

Yeah, it's pretty nuts. I said, I don't know, what do you think? And he goes, the guy checks out. His background, he is who he says he is. He was where he says he was. He got that leaked video from three days prior that's a craft, that's an unknown craft at the base that's leaked.

He goes, I don't know. But he checks out. I was like, oh, so I dug a little deeper. I spent about a year digging around as much as I could with my limited access. And I opted to report on it because I figured, look, nothing's going to come of it if I don't report on it. And I'm going to receive some criticism in mainstream, but I always have anyway.

So fair enough. Well, yeah, of course you do. You have to. How are we doing on time? Okay, great. We have 30 seconds. Oh, no. I'm kidding. Okay. So let's... I love sunsets, okay?

Let's jump into the present. Based on all of your research, give me an assessment of what's happening in New Jersey. Yes. Give me an assessment of what's happening in New Jersey. So a lot of times you can just say you can quickly eliminate conventional by the demonstrated technology, right? So you have objects, a bona fide UAP, unidentified anomalous phenomena, exhibits a technology that doesn't make any sound or very little sound sometimes where you'll get reports of a slight humming or a buzzing but for the most part no sound don't know wings no

visible means propulsion has the ability to hover loiter forever yeah indefinitely or accelerate from a standstill to out of sight the blink of an eye right angle turns at high speed, no sonic boom, no air disturbance, no wake. They also are transmedium, they go in the oceans, they come in and out of the oceans. That's a bona fide UAP. Like even after careful review of all the data, you still can't explain it. Now what's happening over New Jersey, some of the reports, objects are SUV size drones right and they're making noise right which is weird because when I first heard that I was thinking to myself these things are making noise but their loitery time loiter time is a long time

right and they go dark a lot of times when helicopters and stuff are trying to follow them right and there's no infrared, I'm told, they can't be picked up with infrared. There's interference with other drones that people put in the air to try to get closer and look at them. They can't get their drones up. Can't get their drones up.

So if it is a conventional propulsion, it's highly advanced. Not the type that a guy like me, because I fly drones. I fly drones for all my movies. You know, I got, you know, pro-level, pro-consumer level. What's the longest one of your best? 25 minutes. 25 minutes.

Yeah, 25 minutes in the air. And these objects are big, but then I'm hearing other reports that I just saw yesterday of a fleet, or sorry, a coast guard being followed by objects that appear to come out of the ocean. Yeah. So that's really weird. And these are officials that appear to have come out of the ocean. Yeah. So that's really weird. And these are officials that are saying this, and police that are saying this. So there seems to be something truly inexplicable, right? There's not an easy explanation. And I think that's one of the reasons why everyone is just like up in arms over it, because I can't, as someone who's investigated these for as

much time as I have, I can't, because of all the external information I'm getting, the data that's coming in, I can't just give it a label like, this is highly advanced conventional propulsion because there's other things demonstrated. And there's lots of them, and the lawyer time is so long. And why can't the government give us a straight answer? Now that's telltale right there. The fact that they're hemming and hawing and they're saying, oh, well, don't worry, we have no idea what it is, but you're perfectly safe. It's like, hmm, something tells me that you have no idea what these things are. And why are they not trying to, in a safe place, shoot one of them down over the water? I don't know. It seems, especially the ones that are over military bases.

Well that's the best video. Someone posted a video of a drone, like they're saying, look, this idea that the government won't shoot down drones, let me show you this video of a drone flying into Area 51. It's in there for like four minutes no shot out of the sky so Clearly we will shoot down drones like the fact that they're all like it's against the law We can't shoot these things down so it implies They know clearly they know what they are and and probably it's our tech or if you want to go out there It also could imply that this is the next drip,

this is the next sort of... If I wasn't so busy right now, I'd be there investigating boots on the ground. That's the way to really find out about this stuff, right? I really would, I'd like to go to places. I've been flying drones now, let's see, since, gosh, seven, eight years, and I've had one drop out of the sky, just malfunction, freeze, explode on the desert floor.

Excuse me. Battery was full, so it wasn't that. I was flying in a restricted on the edge of a military base, and I'm convinced that they did something to the technology, just something to it and it dropped out of the sky. Sure. Dropped out like a rock. Right. And I knew I wasn't supposed to be flying it, but there's a couple shots I wanted to get.

And I wasn't really risking anyone. I shouldn't have been flying out there. And it said no drone flying, but I flew it anyway and it dropped out of the sky like a rock. So I'm convinced. And everyone else that was with me, they somehow interfered with the technology and dropped it out of the sky. Well, that's what people are saying is happening to their drones now. So it would make sense. Of course, we would have some kind of tech that like knocks drones out of the sky. Of course.

Yeah. I mean, this is the... I saw it happen to me. This, you know, no matter what, what's happening in New Jersey, wouldn't you say it's one of the more like gigantic events in this particular field, even if it is government tech? But why would they do that? Well, you know, the theories are that the fear monger theory is they're scanning for radiation. They think there's a dirty bomb out there. They're scanning for a nuke. Again, this is just stuff, you know, fear mongering, fear mongering. The other theory and I'll send you this great tic tac

of someone breaking it down. It's so some time ago, they made an agreement that it would be okay for contractors to test experimental drones in the New Jersey corridor. Oh, residential air. Oh, come on. That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense because it's airspace. And you're shutting airports down. It doesn't make any sense either.

And also some of the videos, and again, who knows? Some of the videos, it's not just these drone things. It's orbs. It's the classic weird flickering orb. One of the videos seems to show the orb turning into one of these drones. Again, who the fuck knows what footage I'm looking at? I don't know. But that brings me to another question I had for you, which is the orb phenomena.

Oh, yeah. What do you think that is? Because we have the tic tacs, we have the Varginha, I don't know, like the cigar, which by the way is this, you know, that we talked about in an earlier podcast, Uma Muma, whatever it's called. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that name. Wamuwamu or Uma Wama. Cigar-shaped, cigar-shaped. Yeah, yeah. It was so funny too because the illustration they did for it made it look

more like a rocky thing. Yeah. But then I was like, well, hang on a second, it's artificial., it was so funny too because the illustration they did for it made it look more like a rocky thing Yeah, but then I was like, well, hang on a second It's artificial and it was solar a solar wind solar thing. Yeah, wouldn't it have been more? I don't know who knows but the the but it accelerated right it well shouldn't have you know, it's the I should have asked more questions to the Harvard psychiatrist the heart. I'm sorry that Harvard. I'll be low I'll be low. I just hung out with him. He's so cool. Yeah, I know I was like Yeah, we were so busy and he put his neck out there He talking about that cuz he's like this is exactly what it looked like if a ship Visited us and it does all the things so but the orb phenomena is interesting to me because

It has a sort of spiritual component to it. Like there are people who claim that these things, they appear around them. There's... I've met people who... Who is it that teaches how to call those things? You know what I'm talking about? There's a... God, he's a... Oh, God, I can't believe I can't remember his name. It doesn't matter. But... He sees the orbs? No, it's some method where you can like call these things. And again, I can't remember his name. It doesn't matter. But. He sees the orbs? No, it's some method where you can call these things. And again, I know that.

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So have you seen one? Yes, I did. What are they? What do you think those are? You know, that's, I don't talk about this very often, very, very, very seldom, but when I was 20, I was, it was probably maybe 10 o'clock at night, 9.30, 10 o'clock at night, and I was in Northern California in my bed with my girlfriend at the time, Lisa Reinhart.

And neither one of us were into UFOs. I mean, not at all. Like we never talked about UFOs. I mean, I'd heard some stories in the past from like family friends and stuff, but it was like nine, 30, 10 o'clock. And I had like a queen size bed. And then to the right of us lying on,

we were lying this way there's a good-sized window yeah I maybe maybe four by five maybe a little bigger it was big it went up to our right and we're both looking out the window and we see this like like egg-shaped thing that was like a yellowy white and it was just like kind of pulsating a little bit right out our window. I was like, what the... And she looks at me and she goes, what the fuck is that? And I said, I don't know whatever that thing is, but whatever it is, I get the feeling it knows we're looking at it. She goes, so do I. Close the blinds, I'm scared. So I leapt up out

of bed, and I remember trying to close the blinds frantically, and I ripped them off the wall and they hit the floor. And then I was picking them back up, and I was in my underwear, and I'm trying to put the damn blinds up, like, and we're like clutching each other for a couple of minutes. Terrifying. Yeah, it was kind of scary. And after a couple of minutes, she goes, I wonder if it's still there. And so I peeked through the...

It was gone. Then my sister, Janine, came home, maybe like an hour later or something, and she's like, hey, what's going on? She came back from a concert, and she was telling us about her concert, and we were like, we just saw UFO. And she goes, really? Like, like what? And we told her.

And then we went to bed, she went to bed, woke up the next morning, never spoke of it ever again. Yeah. Didn't talk to anybody about it at all. And I was probably maybe 39, and I was doing, I know what I saw, and I was visiting one of my really good friends down in San Diego, this guy, John Kimmel, and he had this morning routine.

He was like super fit, and I work out a little bit, but he takes it to the next level. Like he was like, we're gonna go jogging down the beach. We're gonna swim out to this buoy like a quarter mile offshore. You know, the sharks in the water. Fuck that. Yeah, I know. And I was like swimming out this buoy feeling awfully vulnerable. We go out and then we swim back in again. And he wants to run to the left. And I was like, you know, John, let's go to the right. He goes, the car is to the left and there's nothing to the right.

And I was like, I wanna go to the right. We got kind of an argument. I said, John, I'm going right. Yeah. He goes, there's nothing to the right. There's no food to the right. There's no car to the right. It's the big barren empty beach.

And I was like, well, I'm going. So he goes with me reluctantly. We walk down the beach and there's three people sitting on this barren beach Lisa Reinhart her husband and her daughter who was probably like six at the time. Yeah, I looked at her and I was like Lisa Wow, and she was like James who here like, oh my god This is my husband and this is my daughter blah blah blah. I was like, oh my god It's so good. I can't believe I gave her a big hug. And I looked at her and I go, You remember that UFO sight that we had? She goes, damn right I remember that. I said, what do you remember? And then she told me exactly like I did.

That was it. But had I not been with someone, I probably would have just written it off like it didn't really happen, because I have no explanation for it. Well, that's interesting. I'm sorry to cut you off. But see, that's interesting. That this is the way we react to things that far out of default reality. You feel like it was a dream. Who's gonna believe you? Who's gonna believe you? What does it matter?

What does it matter? What does it matter? Because I'm gonna go around and sound like a crazy guy. Right. You know, then it's gonna be, okay, well, I had this experience. Now people that maybe will look at my work and think, well, clearly he had this experience and that influences what he believes.

That's not the case at all. Could it have somehow been an impetus that triggered me later in life? I don't know. I don't know. Listen, I'll share one with you real quick. Okay. And I don't talk… I have a witness.

I have a witness and She's still around today And I don't talk about this that much and it seems like I would I don't know if I've talked about on the podcast but When I was a kid, you're crazy Thank you Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I it's such a Based on everything you've said such a boring story, but I do think I feel like telling it really quickly Just because it actually want to hear it. I just realized like yeah, it's something. I really hesitate to talk about It's not a big deal when I was a kid woke up in my window of my bedroom Was a fucking orb just like this weird Plasmatic hovering thing same sense of like it's aware of me somehow.

And then I went to bed, woke up, and to this day I think was it a dream? But then when I see the footage of these things, it's like that's what it fucking looked like. And so I am very curious, and I know we are, where are we at? Do I have time for one more question? Okay, this is-

Did the orb look anything like your t-shirt It was not that cool Thank you. I could get lost in there. Oh, man. This is I am lost right now. You guys look at We've lost him That is so cool, thanks. Yes, I can't believe people can do this with tie-dye. It's unbelievable. It's insane. Beautiful. So, what do you,

with all of these sightings that are happening, everything that's happening, and honestly, you know, with the New Jersey stuff in particular, I think for the first time, I started feeling creeped out. I started getting not a good feeling I started really playing around with the

idea Like that maybe we're being visited by something. Well, we are more advanced than us and it wasn't a good feeling You know, it wasn't a hippie feeling of they're coming to Save us save us or anything. We're just like… From ourselves. And like, if you look at the history of like what happens when we show up on the past on shores, it doesn't end well for the people. Godspeed humans.

So do you have some sense, even if it's instinctive, intuitive, do you have some sense of what we might expect over the next few years? So the reason why I'm not as spooked, because I've already kind of come to terms with the fact that there's a non-human intelligence present on this planet, and from all the cases I've investigated all around the world for decades, I've come to the conclusion that generally speaking, these objects are not hostile. This intelligence is not hostile. Now, some people would argue

with me and say, hey, we have the abduction phenomenon, and there's definitely something to that. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Well, I haven't delved into that. I've never really covered it. Yes, I've met people like that. Striver! Oh, yeah, I know, I know. And I believe… You're friends with him, right?

Yes. And I'm also… And hey, I believe that aspect of the phenomenon, and people are constantly going, how come you haven't done any documentaries? I'm like, that's a really slippery slope, and I'm already pushing the envelope so hard right now that I'm just not there yet. However, I did talk to not Whitney Strieber, it was another, not John Mack, his name will come

to me...Bud Hopkins. And Bud Hopkins was an amazing guy. He was friends with Leslie Kane, and I was hanging out in his apartment like in 2008, 2007, something like that. And he's like, James, I got this stuff I wanna show you, it's incredible, like this. And little did I realized that was the Last time I was ever gonna meet him he died of cancer. Mm-hmm, but he goes He goes look at these these illustrations. I have I'm having my patients

They're all from all around the world and none of them know each other and I've been having them Like draw what they see when they wake up on the ship so-called ship. Yeah Son of a bitch if that drawing wasn't the same like symbols and stuff they're seeing, they're reporting on the crowd, how the hell do you do that? If that's not compelling evidence, I don't know what is. You've got 50 different people all drawing variations of the same thing, but it's the same damn thing. And you're looking at it and he goes, none of these people know each other. These are in different countries. These are different. And they're drawing the same thing they're seeing on the ship. That

to me is, whoa, that's the most compelling I've ever seen for allegations people claim to being abducted or not. So yeah, so people could say to me, oh, James, you're being naive and you're saying that it's a fairly benign presence for the most part. But I still do believe that. I do believe that their intention was to destroy us. I mean, they disabled our nuclear weapons. Right.

They've done it countless times. Right. And I talked to a nuclear launch control officer, Robert Salas. Yeah. Love you, buddy. The guy's amazing. And he's like, you know, James, it's funny actually, because when I met him, I realized why he was a launch control officer, because he's so calm.

Yeah. And he's so measured. And nothing like, you know, ruffles his feathers. He's just like a little Buddha. Because that's the kind of guy you'd want if you want to flip the switch for nuclear war. Yeah, right. Calm, measured, mellow.

Mellow. Mellow. Mellow. Relax. Relax. Yeah, and he goes, well, James, because talking about UFOs flipping, turning all these weapons off, turning these nuclear-tipped warheads from missiles off or whatever. And he goes, the way I saw it, the message was rather clear. It's like taking matches out of the hands of a baby.

Really, wow. Wow. Wow. Who's baby? That's the one. Little babies playing with nuclear weapons, you know? It's like, maybe you shouldn't be doing that. Get your hands off the nuclear weapons!

Yes, yes. Thank you so much for this conversation. It was a joy talking to you, and I am so excited to watch your newest documentary. Thank you so much for this conversation. It was a joy talking to you and I am so excited to watch your newest documentary Thank you so out today. Yes. Yes. Let me just quickly say there have been some issues It's the most independent release in the history of my 30 year career, right? Because I've had nightmare issues with Distribution companies and won't bore your audience with the details of this is This is the most independent release ever. It's $20 right now on Apple, Amazon, Vimeo, iTunes. That's expensive. If you can afford to get it, buy it. If you can't

wait two weeks, it'll be available to rent. But it's a hundred percent independent release and yeah, if you like what I do and you can afford to support it, go for it. Where's the best way? What's best for you for them to find it? Amazon, iTunes, Vimeo, Fandango. And I listed a bunch of things on my ex account. So you can find me at at James C. Fox. at James C. Fox. And I've been posting updates and all the various links.

We had a couple of issues earlier today. I think it's been ironed out, so great to have me on. Thank you so much, everyone. Appreciate it. Great meeting you. Thank you for your work. Everybody watch his show. All the links will be in the comments section in the description for this podcast.

You're the best. Thank you. Thanks. That was James Fox everybody. Make sure you watch the program. Buy it in advance. He's spent his own money on this thing. I'm sure it's not easy getting people to fund this kind of documentary.

And we need people like him on the front lines. Big thank you to our wonderful sponsors. And thank you for watching. Merry Christmas. Thanks for watching!