Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 679: Daniele Bolelli

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

Daniele Bolelli, writer, lecturer, and martial artist, re-joins the DTFH! You should listen to Daniele's podcast, History on Fire, available everywhere you get your pods! And check out Daniele's new premium workout supplements, Purist Mushrooms. Spokane, WA family! Duncan is headed your way! Come see him at the Spokane Comedy Club, April 10-12. Click here for tickets and more info. This episode is brought to you by: Minnesota Nice Ethnobotanicals wants to help you escape the matrix of stress and reconnect with the earth’s ancient wisdom—go to mn-nice-ethnobotanicals.com/duncan and use code DUNCAN20 for 20% off your first order of Amanita Muscaria Capsules! Go to Get.Stash.Com/DUNCAN to see how you can receive TWENTY-FIVE DOLLARS towards your first stock purchase, and to view important disclosures!

Greetings to you my loves. You're listening to the Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast or watching it if you're on YouTube. Obviously I want to send out my love and my prayers to those of you who have been affected by the meteor impact in New York. My god I can't believe that fucking happened. It's terrifying and yeah I'm not gonna say anything else other than to those of you who are out there I'm wishing you the best and I'm so sorry. I don't think anyone thought that could actually happen. Happened to the dinosaurs but it happens all the time. Other planets are pockmarked with meteor impact scars. I mean honestly you would kind of think like maybe the place

you want to live on a planet isn't on the part facing the abyss where mountains fall out of it from time to time. I'm not victim blaming you or anything, but my heart, my heart, my heart, one heart goes out to those good citizens of New York. And yeah, if you look down in the comments, there's going to be links to where you can donate money to victims of the meteor impact. I'm very sorry that happened. Today's guest is one of the most requested guests on the DTFH.

Unfortunately, I hadn't had him on a while because he lives on the other side of the country. You probably know him from his amazing podcast history on fire and Because he was kind enough to be on this show. I must plug his amazing company purist Mushrooms where you can find the finest organic mushroom

extracts He gave me some of these and it's incredible. So again, this is like healthy, not that psilocybin isn't healthy, but this is like workout mushrooms, not see Jesus mushrooms. Regardless, go to purist mushrooms dot com or history on fire if you love Daniele Bollelli. Now everybody welcome Daniele Bollelli.

Funny thing is you can make anything sound serious when you do that. Daler Swift is an incredible person. He's with is an incredible person Mr. Bollelli welcome back. It's been too long my friend. Let me apologize in advance. I am slightly hungover I'm gonna move over in a while South by Southwest got me last night fair fair. How are you my friend? Good all good Night fair fair. How are you my friend? Good? All good? I enjoy my life right now you what I seriously enjoy my life

You're not supposed to enjoy your life right now. Did you know that? I'm sorry life sucks So catch me up man, yeah Catch us all up to speed. It's been too long. What's going on? In my life? Let's see. So I've been living outside of Los Angeles for a while now since actually the beginning

of the pandemic. I'm living in Ojai. I knew that. You made the Ojai transition. A lot of people did that. Tiny town with less than 10,000 people. Yeah. I know it.

Yeah, I hear it's great. Not a sound, not anything really. Just the rattles of ayahuasca shamans in the woods. Pretty much it. Far away and now, so it's a mellow place. I still teach. I still teach college, but mostly online. So I get to stay home most of the time, which is great.

I think I'm a perfect candidate for house arrest. I found out during COVID. It's like you make me stay at home. I'm like, oh, no, I can't leave. Oh, I never thought of that. Jesus. Anytime anyone invites you, I go, dude, I would love to go to your birthday party, but I'm under house arrest.

I think I'm gonna work something out. Oh my God. To make it official. Fake ankle bracelets or something. That's perfect. It's incredible. It's perfect. So you've become a recluse.

Yes, and I love it. I'm still doing the History on Fire podcast, Drunken Taoist. I'm writing a bunch. that I'm having a blast. That's probably the thing I'm having the most. Can you talk about what you're writing? Yeah, yeah, sure. I did. I finish. I'm in talk right now to have it published.

I finish historical fiction about the life of Caravaggio, the crazy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. I did that one. I had a blast. And there's more stuff that I want to do. I was talking. Maybe I shouldn't mention the details because it's not my business, but like a director was pretty big in that space, was talking about maybe doing an adaptation on a Native American story

that we are both discussing. He's Native himself, and we're talking about that. So I've been enjoying the idea of creating, taking historical events and making, and you know, you fictionalize them. It's not like when I do history on fire, it's all factual and super fact check and stuff. When you go into the fiction space, to me, it's fun because you're creating archetypes, you're creating mythology, you're creating great stories. But I mean, isn't, I mean, wouldn't you say any history is not intentionally fictional? Sure. But you got to

fill in the blanks. 100%. And I think that's the nature of history to begin with. But of course, when you're selling it as history, you are going to be as honest as you might be possible about look, right? We know a we know be Yeah, in between a and b is my speculation and I'm guessing based, it's an educated opinion of what I think may have gone down between A and B. Gotcha. And that's fine. And when you do fiction, of course, you don't have to do that. You can

fact check and do all the little things and you can just go off and just have fun with the stories. Yeah, I'm reading a book. God, I wish I could remember anything these days, but the book is, it's history. It's not fiction, but it's about the family that Robinson Crusoe is based on. Are you familiar with that? I mean, I read the Robinson Crusoe as a kid. That's about the extent of my familiarity with the story.

Basically, a family, it's really interesting. It's a family, they're out on a boat. They have a piano on the boat, which is kind of eerie to think about. They're out on this boat, they have a piano, just playing piano out in the ocean. But what they are doing is hunting sharks. Because apparently that was a big thing.

And it's like right around, it's like somewhere off the coast of Hawaii, they're hunting sharks and the crew that they have, there's a guy on the crew who was a fucking monster. And basically they would just go to islands and just gather, steal people, human traffickers, slavers. That's like, that's become like the first mate, is this fucked up dude.

They're hunting sharks in an area that is considered, the superstitions believe it's cursed. On a boat, it's considered cursed. And of course, the boat fucking gets wrecked and they wash up on this goddamn island. And it's just interesting to me, not just because it's exciting, but you know, there's a lot of filling in the blanks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. And you know, there's no fucking way you could say that his hair blew in the wind. No, of course not. But historical fiction, you take even more liberties with it, whatever you want. I mean, that's kind of what, like when I went, like for example, I did some podcasts on Caravaggio that were straight up history.

But when I write the story, I'm building, like for me, Caravaggio, one of the things that interesting about him is that he's the prototype of the course artist, you know, the suffering artist, genius and madness and all of that. Which is, of course, is kind of a depressing archetype. It's essentially telling you that sensitivity is a course. That is something that being super sensitive and creative is something that inevitably comes with monstrous amount of pain. It's a doom and gloom view. And so what I did is like, I took, I don't know, 50, 60% of his real story, added a whole bunch,

and then I'm going to give it a completely different arc in terms of how it comes out of the other end, because I want a story that counters that message, that counters the message that sensitivity is just something that you are coerced with and is just sure you can console yourself with the fact that you created something beautiful by your doom to a shitty life. That's a horrible message. And so I took the same character but gave him a very different twist. Okay. That's a cool take on it. I think that tortured artist archetype

is somewhat dangerous because I think a lot of people would love to be, I don't know, Dolly or something like that. Andy Warhol or something. God, that must have been cool. But incident, or Elliot Smith maybe, I don't know. But you sort of, or Jimi Hendrix. Yeah, yeah, of course. So you look at the life of these people,

their deaths, and it paints Johnny Cash. It paints a picture of a horrific life. And in that life, for Johnny Cash, I mean, we all know the story. He was a speed freak. He was on barbiturates and speed. Apparently, he climbed down into a coal mine. You know that story?

Apparently, he was so depressed that he went into a coal mine, down and down and down in the coal mine. And he was just gonna go as far down into the darkness and just lay down and die. That is the most insane form of, because it's on YouTube, unaliving yourself that I've ever fucking heard.

But who wouldn't want to be Johnny Cash? And so, you know what's easy to emulate? Taking speed and being depressed. Now anyone can do that. Doesn't take much practice to take speed or Xanax, but to become Johnny Cash, you also have to be an amazing musician. And so people think, okay, if I sort of emulate the insanity,

maybe the other side, I want to practice. If I'm crazy enough, I want to practice. And that's why I think it's a dangerous archetype in that it can fool you and it can mix up your priorities when it comes to getting good at anything. And I think, you know, the reality is there is... So what's the element of truth there? There is an element that if you are super sensitive,

you are more likely to be really creative. You are more likely to have some creativity because you feel shit more than the average person. So you are more likely to just tear out your heart and soul and put it on a page or in a song or in something. But of course, the idea is you're bound to madness and pain and it's all, you know, your creativity is tied to that. And to me it's like that's partially true in the sense that yes, being oversensitive is more likely than not to put you in like a pretty intense emotional state.

And let's say even, let's even assume the case where you are a creative genius, you are brilliant, you have good things. Thank you, thank you, you're right. But the, but at the same time, you don't want, You are brilliant. You have good things. Thank you. Thank you. You're right. But at the same time, you don't want, it's like, who cares if I have that, but I have a miserable life? That's not the point.

So to me, the thing that interests me in life in general is how do you take a strong sensitivity, a strong ability to feel a lot and not make it be something that is inevitably will lead to depression and sadness and pain and all of that. Because I mean, you will taste pain for sure if you have that sensibility, but it's one thing to taste it, it's one thing to get stuck there. Right. And you know, to go through it, anybody who's sensitive will go through it. But to be able to come out from the other end

and if anything is stronger, that's what interests me. Yeah, it's like, you know, in countless self-help books and religious traditions, there's the invitation to turn towards the pain that you're running. And I wonder if in the description of this tortured artist, really what you're describing is someone running away from what they're feeling and that sensitivity part

is actually, I mean, I understand, because let me tell tell you I'm a master of running away from pain It's my new book coming out run away from your pain Run away from your pain towards a happy life. Good self. I like it's incredible. I know all the strategy Absolutely. It's done. It's denial. It's Alcohol, it's not getting enough sleep to numb yourself because you're kind of delirious. But really, when you hear stories of someone

shooting heroin, for example, I think it's safe to say this is a person who is not running towards the pain. Yeah. And what's bizarre, I mean, if you've ever, if you've ever done any kind of practice where you actually just feel, I am. As let it happen, you do realize, even though it seemed unbearable

when you were starting to, when you were contemplating, all right, maybe I'm gonna like address the grief, address the pain, and you think I can't do that, I'll go mad. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then you the pain and you think I can't do that, I'll go mad. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then you do it and you realize, oh, it sucks, but it's certainly not as bad as I thought it would be.

And also you realize like my addressing it isn't making it go anywhere. No, exactly. But it's also like somehow reducing all the reactive shit that makes you demonstrate what people would call crazy. Yeah, the crazy is more like I don't want to call it cowardice Because we all do it. I don't want to make everyone feel like a cow I I am one if but anytime you sort of sit with it and deal with it Yeah, you do realize it easy even what you thought it was. I mean it still sucks, but the alternative is not any better.

It's not because you start shooting up or distracting yourself with this, that, and the other. It gets better. It doesn't. You're just still, if anything, it has a deeper close in you. You just feel it a little less. And how do you understand it more? Usually from far away, whatever the fucking thing is the Thorn in your heart is from far away. It doesn't seem very nuanced at all

No, then the closer you get to it you realize it's not just one thing It seems to be a bundle of things and then you get closer and you realize not all those things are bad Then you get closer and you realize you know, like any other thing you zoom in on, it's got a lot of space in there. Right. And I mean, regardless, maybe you don't see any silver lining in in the process. Maybe it just still sucks even when you zoom in. But the point is, you can still get through it in a way that's you have options to get through it in a way that's healthier or just avoid it. And you will have it.

I can't remember when my father was dying. So I went back to Italy and I'm there with him. And like the first day when I saw him and I realized just how bad he was. Man, he fucked me up. I was like, okay, I don't know that I'm gonna get through this. This is just, and so I remember

it's the one and only time that I ever took a Benzo. I took like whenever the allowed dose was, I took like less than half. Oh, Jesus. So I took like a minimal amount, right? And it was enough to knock me out, to just remove all emotions for 12 hours or something. And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. This was fantastic. The best.

The next day, the situation hasn't changed. It still sucks, right? It's still as horrible as I left it. But now I'm like, I'm in a mental space where I didn't get caught by surprise. It's 1% less awful than it was the earlier day in terms of my perception of it. And of course the natural thing in me would my perception of it. And of course, the natural

thing in me would have been, give me the Benz bottles because it's still 98.9% shitty. But I was like, no, man, I don't want to become Jordan Peterson in a coma in Russia or something. I don't want... So no, you did it yesterday and that was fine because yesterday you were about to hop out of a window. So yes, I see that taking half a bench is a better alternative than hopping out of a window. Today you deal with it. Today you work through it because today is gonna suck horrendously.

It's gonna hurt like crazy, but it's not the I'm literally about to hop out of a window, which is okay. In that case, do whatever you got to do. So to me, that was important to say, part of it is not going to go away. I mean, I can make it go away for 12 hours artificially and never face it. It's not going to get better. If anything is going to fuck up my life even further.

And so I was like, no, now today you deal with it. And it was, you know, awful, painful, terrible, but doable. Not like the disease is going to kill me, literally. Yeah, but it sure feels like that. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I want your book. I want the run away from pain. I'm a fan of that. Run away from pain. I'm a fan of that is run away from pain.

I'm not go towards madness. I don't like the all the people are like, no, pain is your friend. Fuck you. Pain is your friend. Maybe not mine. You know, it sucks. It's terrible. Yeah, there's different kinds of pain. Yeah. I mean, let's face it. Like it's like, yeah, obviously, like generally pain is a way that your body is telling you, hey, stop doing it.

I'm sorry. I'm getting a non-stop text I apologize. God damn it. Okay phone off. The devil is asleep. Yes Like that whatever you have to cut there cut that bullshit. I'm so sorry, man. I usually turn my phone off. Um The you know, so When you're dealing with like the emotional level, it's interesting because it's like if you have a broken bone, for example, one wouldn't say, well, the answer to the broken bone would be to touch it. Yeah, yeah.

Over and over and over. And yet the emotional stuff weirdly turning towards it and acknowledging it is almost all it takes. Just the acknowledgement is better than imagining it's not there or trying to distract yourself from it. Just, yeah, today sucks. I feel like shit. Sometimes if I wake up and I'm like, oh no, I feel like shit. I can't feel like shit today. I got too much to do. That makes it worse. But if I wait, I'm like, yeah, I feel like shit,

but I'm gonna do it feeling like shit, feeling frustrated, angry, annoyed, stressed out, worried. I'm still gonna do it, but I'm also honoring whatever part of my psychological makeup feels like it needs to alert me to a certain mood state. And then I've noticed if I do that paradoxically, it's easier to move on. The resistance is so draining. No, I think you nail that extremely important point of this stuff because you got all the

motivational speakers in the world, all the self-help, all that. It's all like, no, this pain is a great opportunity. And it's like, man, this is hard. Don't bullshit me. You know, it's like, don't like piece on my head and tell me it's raining kind of feeling. You know, this is terrible. Let's say that it's terrible.

Let's acknowledge that it's terrible. Once, as you said, and I like the word you use, acknowledge, you know, it's like, once we acknowledge that, doesn't mean that we're gonna dwell in it. Doesn't mean that then I wanna just stay here forever and talk about how horrible it is. It's like, but if you get bad cards,

well, don't show them to the other people, but in your head, you can acknowledge, these are shitty cards, this is just how it is. Now that we have established that, how am I gonna play them? Because that's the only thing that matters at this point. It's like, it's not about right or wrong, fear or unfair. These are the cards in my hands.

The only choice I get is how I play them. OK, let's move on. You know, and that I find it's an honest process. But, you know, sometimes the skipping through and just going directly to this is a great opportunity to practice your game and play more creatively. It's like, yeah, okay, we'll get there, but let me get there, don't start there, you know? If you don't, this is, oh God, Sun Tzu,

if you don't know the terrain, you're certain to lose the battle or something like that. And this, what I've tried is essentially the equivalent of like, it's fucking winter outside, but you want it to be spring. So what do you do? If you're an idiot, you dress for spring, thinking it won't be cold.

Go outside, you're fucking, obviously you're an idiot. I mean, I've never done that, but I'm saying if you got a wintery heart and you're trying to dress for spring, pretending that shit isn't there, you're going to be fucked. It doesn't, and also I do like your point, which is that this, what we're talking about,

I do think it is pop psychology, fashion bullshit, and easily misunderstood. And the sort of pathological version of this is a person who feels that by articulating their misery and almost fetishizing it, you know, like being obsessed with it, so that the misery becomes part of their identity Yeah, exactly the never-ending contemplation of why they're miserable and what the misery is and how they're miserable and a strange kind of pat on the back For their courage in allowing everybody to know you know why I'm fucking miserable I got attacked by fucking clowns when I was a kid

I was in a park and these fucking sick pedophile clowns jumped out of a well. And you know, it's ruined me. And then they never stopped talking. Honestly, if that happened to me, I don't think I'd ever stop talking about it. But you know what I'm getting at? It's that form of being where the pain is the identity.

And then there's the form of being where it's like, no, no, no, I don't need to make this my identity. It's just a facet of how I am right now. And then you still like attempt to go out into the world in a way that in some way, shape, or form is beneficial to the world. And I don't think, you know, overanalyzing yourself, confessionalism, and all the varieties of this fashionable personality that we see all over the fucking place right now is necessarily making the world a brighter place. It's just inviting others. It's like if you have if you have boils and I have boils.

But there's really cute is where this is going. There's something to talk about there. Oh, what do you do for your boils? Yes. Oh, I put this like ointment on it and then I wrap them up in a bandage. And I'm like, oh, I should try that. I'm going to go wrap my boils. Now, if you have boils and I have boils and we're like, dude Let's just fucking

Look at each other's boils. Look at the puss when I squeeze it. You see that puss it fucking hurts You're gonna spread whatever gross skin disease you have it's a horrific analogy and probably Not a good one. But the point it it's this, I don't know, this thing that emerges. God, I was in the airport reading fucking books, autobiographies, and so many of them were some self analysis, pinned to the childhood.

Yeah, yeah, of course. A never ending obsession with all the things that went wrong, thus why. Yeah, yeah, of course. A never-ending obsession with all the things that went wrong, thus why. Yep, yep, yep. And in that sort of constant obsession and announcement of it to the world, weirdly, you're trying to turn yourself into some kind of fucking hero

because you went through a divorce. Sure, sure, sure. And you're alive now or some shit. You know what I mean? That's the other part of it. There's an egoic quality to it. Of course. And I think that's what I really like when you say that, acknowledge, because that to

me is the perfect balance, right? Because if you don't acknowledge it at all and you're in pure denial and you just skip directly to everything, it's a wonderful opportunity. It's fake. It's not dealing with reality. And it's superficial because you reality. Right. It's, and it's superficial because you're really just not the, but on the other hand, as you said,

if you become so obsessed with whatever the trauma is, whatever the pain is, that you dwell in it, you fetishize it, you become like, it becomes your identity. Yeah. It becomes this thing that you never get out. That just as bad, if not worse, than the one who's just trying to skip it altogether. Yeah, absolutely. all together. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe they're not different. No, exactly. So to me,

those are both mechanisms that don't really lead to a good outcome. I don't think so. Because in one case, you just spend your time whipping yourself. In one case, you are essentially a master of self-denial, which I mean, I guess there's something to that, but it usually comes back to bite you in the ass. Oh, for sure. So to me, it's like, no, deal with what it is. Deal with the fact that certain things are ugly and painful and terrible. And now figure out a strategy to get out. Yeah.

And just practically. It's not like you dealt with the emotions for a little bit. Now let's move on. Like, what can you do about it? This is where you're at. What do you do here? And sometimes you can and you come up with good ideas. Sometimes, my daughter once, a few years ago,

like probably the last time that I had a bad phase where I was like anxiety galore and something that was really hitting me hard. And you know, when you get in that stage, you feel they are drowning, right? You feel that you can't get enough oxygen. And it's absolutely awful. And I remember talking with her and she was like,

how many times has it happened to you already? And I'm like, well, yeah, a lot, enough times. She's like, and every time you come out of the other end, okay. I was like, yeah, yeah, that is correct. So she's like, play video games, spend, you know, whatever. It's like, whether it's a day, a week, a month, if it's really horrible, in a month you're gonna be out.

Maybe in a week you're gonna be out. It's a wave, it's gonna pass over you and you're gonna be fine at the other end. And the moment she said that, like half of my anxiety went away because I was like, yeah, I am gonna get out. So I just need to do time essentially. I just need to let the wave ride.

It sucks. But if I'm not thinking he's killing me, he's killing me at every second, it's so much easier to let it ride. That's it. Yeah, that is the, it's so paradoxical. Honestly, I think there's like a real illiteracy when it comes to, like we're really good at physical trauma,

dealing with it, but yeah, the emotional component of human existence, it seems like we're fairly non-nuanced in the way we've been taught to work with it. And this is something Chogium and Trumbo, he always uses the term workable. And also what I love about him is, you know, his students are always asking him things like, what about anger? Like, I don't remember the exact question, but like, isn't, you know, is anger bad?

And he's like, actually anger is very clear. And he sort of describes the, and only the way someone who's like been meditating their whole fucking life, he describes the, and only the way someone who's been meditating their whole fucking life, he describes the facets of anger. And instead of making it like the thing that many people do, which is almost they're ashamed, anger, how often have you been in an argument with someone like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

are you getting angry? What's going on? You and I are with the different crowd. I don't get that you try. Yeah. Well This maybe this is what I say to myself. Yeah, maybe I think a lot of people they Okay, let's put it this way. No, no, but that's interesting. Let's categorize these emotional states the ones that are taboo and the ones that are not so Obviously what is a universally accepted

emotional state, contextually, I guess it depends on the context, joy. Now, you're probably expressing joy after you just drove over a bunch of people on a crosswalk. Not so acceptable, but in general, joy. That's a good one. If you're radiating joy, radiating light. Wow, we love it.

And obviously happiness and confidence, I don't know if we call that emotional state. Lucidity. Very nice. Now, so if you're demonstrating any of these and you know you feel like that, you wake up in the morning, you're like, ah, I feel great.

You go out in the world with a kind of confidence because you feel good. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you wake up pissed. Oh shit. I don't, I'm angry. What the fuck's wrong with me? This is not an acceptable. It's like having your zipper down You're not supposed to feel

These things in public. Yeah are very frowned upon don't be fucking don't be a dick, dude Why are you being a dick? Why are you grumpy? Yeah, mr. Grumpy? What happened mr. Grumpy? Did you get sand in your diapers mr. Grumpy, what happened? Mr. Grumpy, did you get sand in your diapers, Mr. Grumpy? You know? These are not acceptable. And so we internalize that. And then when you realize you feel like that, you feel embarrassed.

But I think that's a very important point regarding the sense of shame. Because to me, it's like there's a difference between being angry and being a dick. You know, it's like I can be angry. I can, and that's honest and is real. And I'm acknowledging something that this is where I'm at. This is where whether it's good or bad doesn't affect it.

This is where I'm at. And that's not mean I'm going to be a dick to you. You know, and I think it's like often there's a jump from you can either be fake, pleasant all the time and hide the demons inside. Or if you let it out, suddenly you let everything out to the point that you just stop being a halfway decent person. That's not good either. It's like, no, be honest with your emotions. If you're angry, be angry. If you are whatever, be whatever it is that you are. Just don't be a dick. It's not that

hard. It's like I can be angry and try not to be actively a dick to somebody, you know, where I'm like, Hey, this is what I'm going through. This is where I'm mad. Or this is what you did that really got under my skin. Doesn't mean I hate you and I want to kill you. I get it. Maybe you had your read, but this is where I'm at. You know, there's a difference between being honest with

emotions and then giving yourself license to be a complete asshole to every. You know, I'm just a dick. That's a whole style. Yeah. I'm the guy who's a straight, I'm a straight shooter. Yeah, exactly. And then he's becoming an excuse to be a completely horrible person because I'm being honest. It's like, no, you're not honest. You're an asshole. That's a different thing. That's a,

there's a way to be honest that's not horrible. Dude, it's a whole style. It's like, oh my God, I was in Alpharetta, Georgia, wandered into a... I'm just bored walking around, wandered into a shop. I thought it'd be really good because it's like local artists. It had an entire section dedicated to I don't know how you what I don't know how you put it. It's this like it's the t-shirts like yeah I'm a bitch but I get things done or you know what I mean this whole thing or it's yeah you don't even it's a yeah, yeah, you don't even it's or the style of self-help book That's like how to stop being a fucking prick Yeah, or that thing or that that whatever that is and so this is you know really just like bad manners. Mm-hmm

In but what I'm talking about more is like because of the prohibition. Yeah on Tantrum a shirt you know bidding on out the prohibition on tantruming. Sure. You know, depending on how, you know, if you have a kid, you know what it's like when the kid tantrums. Sure. At some point, they're gone with the wind.

Yeah. There's nothing you can do. You're not gonna untantrum a child. You think that as a new parent, you're gonna like say some logical, like, but we don't have any more honey. And I have to go to the grocery store you see, to get honey.

They're not gonna be like, oh, I'll stop flailing on the ground screaming. I didn't realize that you just need to go to the grocery store. But if you have a shitty parent, then you're not gonna get hopefully the whatever patience a parent can exhibit and that's hard. But you're going to get you stop screaming. Why? And then you feel ashamed of these emotions. And that's what I'm saying you start learning to when

you're experiencing these things, you start feeling ashamed. And Trump or Rinpoche is talking about, no, if you look at any emotional state, as it is, turn and face it, what you find is the enlightened mind, because there's this clarity. There's a perfect, beautiful clarity to every emotional state, even confusion paradoxically.

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Simultaneously, these things rise together. Which is, if you're confused, for example, real confused, You're hungover for a second. You're high. How do you know you're confused? And what knows that? That strangely, the thing that knows you're confused is not confused about your confusion. Right. So, what the fuck is that?

The two happen together, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at in this long rambling way. Makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. And I think there's, yeah, it's important to have that, because there is a separation within us sometime where you can see yourself from the outside, you see the emotions that are rising,

and you sometime, if you have enough practice with it, you have a choice on whether you want to let them out or not. Right. And, uh, and I think that's where I don't think there's a fixed formula for what you should do. You should never let them out. Well, then you are repressed and it's going to show up in the most horrible way. You should always express your feeling.

Well, you know, context, you know, there's something to be said about, like I'm a big believer in being like 100% honest when it comes to feelings, but also 100% honest doesn't mean unfiltered. You know, you still filter things in a way that is like, I'm gonna communicate them in a way that I'm not just throwing an emotional bomb in the room

just because I feel like it, just because I'm being honest. It's like, no, I'm gonna communicate it in a way that I'm not just throwing an emotional bomb in the room just because I feel like it's because I'm being honest. It's like, no, I'm going to communicate it in a way that's ideally not terroristic to the other people involved that like, you know, the same way as you choose the communication style they are going to employ depending on who's in front of you and you're going to adapt it so that you can speak a common language. So that like the person, how will this person receive it? That's important to ask oneself too and to tweak it just a little.

Just enough not to just throw it out there, see what sticks and walk out. This is why we have, even in Christianity, I think, though people maybe don't realize that, there's like levels. The initial articulation of any big idea is, not understanding like the point here is not, there isn't some delusion that some initial introduction to something like this is going to ease a person's suffering in the world. But we have to start building a bridge. Somewhere. Something.

So here's one idea. And then anyone who's like gotten deeper into a thing, it starts getting a little hotter. You know what I mean? Suddenly it's shit you would, if you'd heard that in the beginning, you might not have been so excited about the damn thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's like, wait, what? But you're ready for that, hopefully. And then after that, there's another one, and another one, but like wait, it's like wait what? But you're ready for that hopefully and then after that there's another one and another one another goes Oh, it's a system within which there's levels that that Even if you were to take someone who just was introduced to it and tell them Some of the deeper ideas they wouldn't know what the fuck you were talking about anyway. It's like good sex, right? You don't start at 100% immediately. There's a buildup process. I can't get to 100%. There are pills for that. No, they don't. There's pumps.

I see. It's a pump. No, but you know what I mean? It's like there's a buildup process. You build on excitement, then suddenly the thing that's super hot when you're at 80% would have been hot if you started away from second one. Those are the great teachers. Those are the greatest of teachers

is there isn't some monolithic method that they have for transmitting whatever it is that they're teaching. It's they're in the moment with you and they're seeing where you're at. And then they're sort of easing you towards something. I mean, it's literally the way you teach a kid. You know,

initially, oh my God, my oldest, initially, resistance to riding a bike. But I know him now. And I know that the moment he gets that first pedal in and realizes the freedom of a bike, he's gonna be riding a bike. But I also know he's like me.

Too much pressure, he's gonna massively resist that. So it's finding this perfect lure. How do I get him in there? Right? And then once you do it, it's the most beautiful thing to watch them zipping around on the bike laughing like, holy shit, there, you're done. The practice will take care of the rest. And so yeah, in the articulation of one's emotions, in the articulation of anything that might be initially unsavory to a person. Oh, it's the it's selfish people who imagine that they can just say the same fucking thing to every single person. It's lazy to. Oh, it's lazy.

Just read the room. If you can't handle the fucking truth, that's not my fucking fault. I think you're a bitch. Maybe there's another way to say that. Exactly. To me, that's why commun- I think it's funny because people assume that, you know, we all use words all day long, every day.

So people assume that naturally and magically, people are just good at communication. Oh yeah. And it's like, no, man, most people are awful at communication. Horrible. Which is the reason why they can be married for 15 years and suddenly find out that their spouse is an axe murderer because they never had a real conversation in a way that gets somewhere that they read the room, that they are able to read context or...

Why do you have all these axes? I've been putting off asking you what's up with the axes with the numbers on them? Why is this axe a 15 on it? It's just a hobby you know. I'm an axe collector. You know I know you mean though there's like a just because of a complete usually just because like you don't want to like hear what they're at what they say more than like they're not saying what they mean. Yeah or what you said right the throw stuff out there with the implication that whatever I say, if I'm being honest to my feelings, then it's fine. It's like, no,

there are different styles of, there are different ways to express it. And, you know, the same way of expressing it that would work great in one context is completely gonna alienate your audience in another context. Right. So why would you choose to do that? I'll tell you why, because you're fucking tweeting. And nobody talks about this. You really want to, there is a horrific filter that has happened in the world, which is, a lot of the people who are, what's it called?

Virtue signaling. This is what we say it called, virtue signaling. This is what we say. Okay, virtue signal snowflake. What's really going on there is more than likely a person who actually wants to help. Really, truly, I believe that, I believe it. Now, the problem, here's a person who wants to help and they have some idea about how everybody else

should behave to make the world a better place. It's still the initial impulse is good. And then God help us all. They decide that they're going to do one of those tweets with a hand claps. People need to stop. Now, if I read that with a hand claps, I don't give a fuck who it is. Like literally Buddha could rise from the dead and fucking like tweet some new like noble truth. But if those hand claps are in there.

Charlotte's gonna come see you. It's like fuck you, blocked, not interested. And so, but I, and I think, but then even worse what happens is this idiot form of communication starts happening within the comments where no one even knows anything other than the words and maybe some emojis and no one's into the direct contact with a person experiencing who they are, seeing the micro gestures, smelling the fear or the joy or whatever

because you know how like how many times have you gotten a text that could be interpreted a million different ways just simply because it's not spoken, not in person. And then everyone, and this is why you hear so often, when I meet people in person, they seem great. Yeah, yeah, totally. And then you get the online version. And it's the hell, it's a hell realm. Yeah, absolutely. A hell realm of people screaming and raging as they meet up in person, everything's great.

The reason is, is because this form of communication that we're engaging in, it used to be limited, you'd have to write someone a fucking letter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in the letter, at least you can see the handwriting. Totally. The shake of the hand and rage, or like they're drunk, clearly, or whatever,

but even with a text, everything's getting, all the human elements getting filtered out. And I think there are two levels. One, the text aspect that you said. It filters out so much of the real communication, so it's hard to read. That's one level, and that's already bad, but at least that one is personal, right?

The text arrives to you, so the person is already thinking, even though it's a limited form of communication, how can I write something that would resonate with this person in a way that they understand what I'm saying? It's even worse when you take it to the next stage and it's like the social media stage, where you're essentially writing a text for a mass of whatever people are out there that are going to read it. And of course, in that group, there's going to be people of all, they come from all kinds of backgrounds. So there's no context, right? You're just throwing a

message into the void with absolutely without being able to read the room. And it's not that you're going to modify your message depending on who's there because you're a liar or because I'm going to say this thing to this person because they like me. And I'll say, no, the message may be the exact same, but the way you will choose to communicate it. I'm gonna approach, if I wanna reach a certain conclusion, I'm gonna approach it completely different if I'm talking to person A and to person B because person A speak a kind of language

that is not gonna resonate with whatever I'm gonna say to person B. We'll get to the same place, but the dance to get there is completely different. Absolutely. And I have to tailor it to whoever is in front of me. Send the message into the void. Seriously, that's like Lao Tzu is banging his head against the wall somewhere because it's exactly the, it's the worst of the spoken word, losing the flexibility

necessarily for actual good communication. Yeah, it filters out the soul. It really does. And when you think in terms of like, identity as a sort of construct, cobbled together, mostly not intentionally cobbled together, cobbled together by experience, cobbled together, mostly not intentionally cobbled together, cobbled together by experience, cobbled together by DNA. So you have these like set of preferences essentially that have been forged by time

and good luck or bad luck or whatever. And then you start, I don't know, you take a healthy dose of acid and you realize that that's that's just bullshit anyway Yeah, so then You know if you have any kind of awareness regarding your own identity look at yourself ten years ago 20 years ago Whoever that was Probably very different

I mean otherwise you and I would be fucking playing with GI Joe's right now if we could go back far enough. I don't know if you were into that. I was, you didn't like G.I. Joe's. What were you into? What were you into? What toys did you like? I'm trying to think. You know, I had this thing that actually tells you a lot

about where I'm at. And as a kid, they had these tiny plastic toys. I don't think they had them in the US. In Italy, they were like historical characters. So they was like ancient Egyptians, ancient Romans. Didn't have that shit. And so I would spend my time just making up personal. I was an only child growing.

I was born in 1974. I keep forgetting you're the child of a philosopher. I would spend my time essentially playing movies in my head with these little things. And I would just have a blast that way and What I do now is not that different Yeah, I was making Play-Doh figurines and putting them in the gears of my mom's exercise bike. Imagine they were in factory accidents That's actually pretty cool. It was fun. Fucked up my mom's bike and got me to the therapist. She was like, what the fuck are you doing?

What's wrong with you? And then anyway, the point is, we, though I still do that, mostly we change. And so then, now we realize, oh, it's kind of a constructed identity, for better, for worse, not to say it's invalid or something, it's still mostly just some melting candle wax. Then you take that cobble together identity and then you construct an online identity.

Sure. So now you're essentially what we've got going on online is the most insane form of dollhouse. Now you're parading this doll, which is you, and everyone else is parading their dolls and just like kids playing with dolls These dolls become caricatures of what was already a caricature So you get this secondary thing arguing with the secondary thing or gets even weirder man is mixed in with a human with a doll of like I I am a powerful man! And then the doll, I'm a sensitive man!

And then the sensitive man and powerful man fight. You're a toxic masculinity, you're a snowflake! Then mixed into that, robots, who have taken human personality, cloned it, and now there's some automatons mixed in there, it's like Slava Ukraine stuck in the flames, you know what I mean? So it's the most bizarre dollhouse of all time and people take that dollhouse so seriously and even worse They extrapolate from the interactions of these dolls

Online a consensus That's where it gets really fucking weird Daniel. So we already have a filter that takes out all nuance from most conversations. The filter allows for a, you know, generally two dimensional, at best, caricature of one self. And then Cobb thrown into that is automated bots designed to create the sense of a consensus and then you're looking into that dollhouse and you're thinking that's the world. Dear God, the world is fucked up. And it's not the world at all. It's a

technological lunatic asylum. Yeah. And I mean, the problem is that because it starts not being the world at all, but then because so many people spend so much time inside the lunatic asylum, it becomes their world. And then it becomes, even when you meet them in person, they are like 80% there. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It didn't start that way, but if you spend enough time in it and you constantly are there, that's how your brain, that becomes your experience. That becomes your world. You turn into the doll.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You turn into a doll! And then you're out there fucking setting a Tesla on fire. Next thing you know, you're pouring gasoline on a fucking Tesla. A dumbass completely unaware that those Teslas are like fucking George Orwell's. That's 1984. Big brother would drive a goddamn Tesla. They're covered in fucking cameras. These poor dumb kids. My wife just sent me this. It's really sad and so dumb. I mean it's hard to feel too much sympathy, but listen to this. This is from Reddit. Course, Reddit legal advice. First of all, if you're going on Reddit fucking legal advice, you're doomed. Daughter is being prosecuted for felony vandalism to vehicles California.

What else can be done? Who can we contact? Hello, I made a throwaway account to post here. My daughter, African American, 18 years old, was involved in a protest at a Tesla dealership. After the protest, she apparently vandalized, spray painted, plus physical damage a Tesla and Cybertruck and was caught on sentry mode. How clear are these cameras, parenthetical? In other words, like, is there any way she could like get away with it? She told her lawyer that she was coaxed by her friends to do it. I'm scared for her and want her to have

the best possible future, but I'm afraid that she's going to get a harsh sin ish sentence and found guilty Which her lawyer said is highly likely giving given the evidence now when you consider What drove this 18 year old to set a Tesla on fire was it? Person to person communication no it was Some shit she landed on the wrong fucking subreddit that apparently failed to also say, listen, if you're going to fucking burn a goddamn Tesla, put up, put you got my scab, you got COVID. Yeah. But, but even worse, no one in this is other problem where the censorship emerges.

I don't see in the conversation of rage at Elon Musk and the subsequent ignition of spray-painting Teslas, the assumption seems to be when you go out there to spray-paint a Tesla, that the person who bought that Tesla... Right. You had an issue with that person. ...was like, you know what I love? Elon Musk. I really love oligarchs you know what I love the oligarchy what's it honey what's a good car right it shows I support an oligarchy hey honey what's a good car to show I'm a fascist Nazi who supports the oligarchy oh babe

Tesla right probably what happened was somebody was like man I don't want to Nazi who supports the oligarchy. Oh babe, Tesla. Right. Probably what happened was somebody was like, man, I don't want to fuck up the planet with fossil fuels. Right. So I'm going to get a fucking Tesla. Yeah. Next thing you know, some 18 year old is setting your shit on fire, spray painting Nazi on the side of it. And you just got that fucking Tesla because you were inspired by Greta Thunberg. You know what I mean? It's the most ridiculous of protests. But I mean, what's happening, I think, is like we live in an

environment that because we spend so much time online and like the thing that gets attention online, the way the algorithm is built, the algorithm feeds on. I did actually a sub stack at some point. I had fun with that. I wrote this whole thing of comparing. I started speaking about Aztec divinities demanding blood sacrifices and going like,

oh, that was not real, went away with, no, that is extremely real. That is the algorithm currently. That is the Aztec gods are trapped at the roots of the algorithm and they demand their outrage, anger, suffering. Jesus Christ, that's good. We are feeding the algorithm that way,

pain our sacrifice, because that's what it does, right? It feeds on human suffering, because that's what gets attention, you know? Anger, outrage is what gets attention, and so we do our daily sacrifices to the gods of the algorithm in a way that gives you a pain. Yeah, which is atrocious, because then it multiplies. Make your offering of pain. They did.

Now, this is amazing. And it weirdly connects to something that floats around the conspiracy boards from time to time. something that floats around the conspiracy boards from time to time, inevitably somebody will show a motherboard. They will zoom in on the motherboard. I don't know if you've seen that. Have you seen that shit? Can you, Josh, pull up zooming in on Apple computer chips? This is really wild.

You gotta see this, dude. It freaks me out, but Dude if I was an Aztec god, where would I want to live? Yeah, so watch this It's the wildest thing It's the wildest thing. That's where the Aztec gods are. Yeah, it just kind of looks like a Google Maps. Yeah. But it's deeper. And deeper.

Yeah. And deeper. I'm surprised someone hasn't done one of these with a dick at the... fully zoomed in. Yeah. Deeper I'm surprised someone has done one of these with a dick at the fully zoomed in. Yeah deeper Deeper Yes deeper Look at that Look at that. Yeah, and so like what what inevitably happens is within the circuitry

Maybe not so much in that one, but maybe pull up the surface of a microchip right there. Let's do another zoom in on these things. This is fun to do when you're blasted. But somewhere in this circuitry, suddenly you will start seeing what appears to be sigils. You'll start seeing these like symbol sets, maybe like posit right there. Yeah.

So you look at that and you start seeing these like, you know, just the natural curvature of the lines in there and stuff. If you look at the right place, you will see something. Now do me a favor, pull up Lesser Key of Solomon. Famous grimoire, the Lesser Key of Solomon. For those of you listening to this, well, you can use your imagination, I'm sure, to know what I'm talking about. But yeah, go back up, Josh.

Yeah, actually, yeah, click on that. See if we got, okay, there you go. Scroll back up. So like, look at that. Now, notice in the perimeter, the way that the circles of the lines connecting them look identical to circuitry And so this pops up on the you could take that off man Anytime I pull up the lezergy of fucking solomon people who practice magic are like dude. What are you fucking doing?

Don't even show that. I don't know what i'm showing. It's on wikipedia blame them, but when you consider Just what you're saying, that within the machinery that is the home of the algorithm and is the storage area for the rage, which has been converted into just ones and zeros, there's literal sigils, what could be interpreted as sigils, it really becomes quite eerie. And then when you look up that these people, can you pull up early computer development occult,

have you ever looked into this? Oh, it's a good rabbit hole. The hidden history of digital technologies and the occult ideas that are reflected in programming language explanation. Coding the digital occult project. The project traces the occult histories of digital technologies and how they challenge binary,

linear, colonial, and patriarch, I don't know what the fuck that is, esoteric programming language. These languages are designed to make code hard to read and write, which can be a challenge for programmers. So in other words, like, the Grimoire is now, the wizard takes a magical language, C++, uses the magical language to invoke the entity, which is the program, the spell.

That's the spell that they're casting. And then that spell multiplies via buying, downloading. Anytime you're downloading an app, you're summoning demons. Yes. And when you say a thing like what you're summoning demons. Yes. And when you say a thing like what you're saying, suddenly all of that, which could easily just sound like, yeah, take another bong or dumb ass, it starts seeming strange and true and bizarre. And also, I mean, at a very basic level

that doesn't require any no bong hits or anything to upstate is think about like the people who make a living and there's plenty of them who make a living stalking outrage online, their whole shtick, whether they have a podcast, whether they have a magazine, whether they whatever it is, is like their whole thing is they know that they get engagement by pissing people off. So their whole thing becomes, let's wake up this morning and throw something that's going to create anger,

that's going to create a backlash, that's going to create group A fighting against group B. The algorithm will pat me on the back for having performed a good sacrifice because I'm delivering massive amount of engagement, which is built on usually anger. And I've done my job. And this is what people make a living with, you know, and they are rewarded both financially and just about every other way by doing that. Dude, years ago, a friend of mine was out to dinner with an influencer.

And the influencer, I don't remember, it posted some bullshit that had created quite a bit of outrage online. And I think my friend was like trying to comfort that this is in LA and you know where there's like you know a whole burgeoning like you, you know, not like, you know, podcast influencer, but you know, just like people who have developed a kind of online personality, they recommend brands. And anyway, the point is, my friend was trying to comfort this person and they were like, so happy. And they talked and found out that they were marketing majors. Of course. And it's called Rage Farming. Yeah, yeah, of course. They talked and found out that they were marketing majors.

Yeah, of course. And it's called rage farming. Yeah, yeah, of course. And the entire, it wasn't just like they accidentally posted some shit that upset a billion people. No, it was planned. And not only was that phase planned, many phases after planned, the whole thing, a campaign.

Yeah. And people are stumbling upon this shit like, you motherfucker, why the fuck would you say that? And it's like dude don't you understand you are at their altar. Altering, offering your rage to them which they are taking and converting into money. Vampirizing your rage, turning it into fucking cash, and you just got them fucking paid. Absolutely. Now, people just don't understand that yet.

If they did, everything would change right away. If you understood that, if you really want to fuck someone up that you disagree with online, don't say anything. Exactly. Don't engage. Just say nothing. Yep, yep. Just cr nothing. Yep. Yep. Just crickets.

Yep. They'll die on the fucking vine. They'll wither and die. We don't understand that yet. No. It's the human thing, right? I see something that pisses me off. I need to react because I'm fighting against the bad.

And it's like you're giving them power. Your reaction, as you said, is what gives them power, is what they will be able to take that energy and turn into money, turn into popularity, turn it into... And I've seen it a bunch of times with people who are not their range when they start. And they'll put something out there and they are, it's cool, and they get a little engagement.

And then they put something absolutely outrageous and it gets massive engagement. And then they are like, hmm, I'm getting rewarded for this. I'm not getting rewarded for that. Okay. Suddenly the frequency of the outrage increases until they become their whole shtick because that's what gets them attention and money. And it's disgusting because I'm just like, dude, I mean, go, Jesus, go sell drugs, do something. If you really need money that bad, there's probably,

if you go sell drugs, it's less damaging than the shit you're doing this way to other people. Or to you. But, or to you. It's, to me, it's, I mean, the fact that like, I understand the mechanism, but it still doesn't justify it in this list because it's like, man, that is disgusting.

Choosing to go down that path consciously because you're getting, it's gross. You just made me think of the best invention ever. It's two things. So we might become billionaires from this. I will share the profits with you. 50-50 because I was in the room with you. You too, Josh.

Do you see how Josh and I dress the same now by the way. Aren't we cute. Are we cute. Extremely. Do you mean that. Hundred and ten percent. Okay. Now here's the invention.

Holy shit this will change everything. Now I know. Now I know how Einstein felt when he came up with the theory of relativity. Okay, no pressure. Here's how it works. It's a desktop tool. Now, basically,

it's similar to the thing I use to measure my blood sugar. You take a pen, you prick yourself, you extract blood. Now, if you're really angry at someone, if you put a drop of your blood and it will know it's your blood, it's, you can't use anyone else's blood, you can't like have a hostage and extract their blood. It somehow, it like, it does some, I don't know,

it's a little more complex than I imagined initially, but the point is it takes your blood, extract their blood. Somehow it like, it does some, I don't know. It's a little more complex than I imagined initially, but the point is it takes your blood, drop of blood. This means you're really mad. You put the drop of blood into this machine, converts it. Yes, this is actually an angry person. He's so offended by what you have said that they've extracted blood from their finger. Now, on the other side,

it's like a hand slapper, and it slaps your hand. So every drop of blood extracted, you know if you extract the blood, you get to slap the hand of the person who did it. Now you're asking, why would I want my hand slapped? I'll tell you fucking why. Profit sharing. For every hand slap, it mines crypto. You know what I mean? All these wealthy people with blistered hands, but it's like dude every hand slip slap is I don't know some percentage of Bitcoin or something

And the drop of blood, you know, you got to fucking get through the machine and slap the hand of an ass. Clearly. Or an ass. I mean, an ass slapper would be cool too. Speaking of which. You don't like my invention. No. Now that I say it, it sounds like...

No, how could I argue with such genius? How did you... yeah, thank you for holding us. Now, where did that come from? I fucked up my wrist and this is why I came to buy it. This is the best part by Slapping my lady's ass too hard. I wish I was what I just went On her ass and just like he's my wrist at the wrong angle and fucking it up getting old sucks Yeah, it's but you know if you're gonna mess up your wrist That's probably a good way for a reason break it. It's like Yeah, it's, but you know, if you're gonna mess up your wrist, that's probably a good way for a wrist to go.

At least you didn't break it. It's like, yeah, there's that. By the way, that's the most amazing flex I've ever seen. It's subtle, beautiful, powerful, because also kind of what you're articulating there, and I mean this with truly, with all due respect, is your lady has a very, very strong muscular ass. Not a lot of padding down there.

Not too many squats over time. That's a lot of squats. If you've gotten your ass in such powerful shape that a slap damages the wrist, that's a lot, a lot of time at the gym. Yeah, damages the wrist. Yes. That's a lot. A lot of time at the gym. Yeah. And I know your lady. Yeah. Dangerous. Yeah. Scary. Easily would kick both of our asses. Wouldn't you say? Don't hesitate. Say yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Fucking Christ. Yeah. She messed up my restart. Yeah. So yes, of course. Clearly. In that moment, in that micro moment, I saw you.

I don't learn. I know exactly what you thought. Here's what you thought. You thought, definitely she kick your ass, Duncan. And then you're like, but I'm I practice martial arts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You were imagining like, give myself a decent chance.

Right. You know, I'm gonna go down Yeah, probably immediately right broken nose. I don't know how to block anything You're gonna hear the crunch of my nose see a splatter of blood I'll pray to cry because it hurts so bad and then you're already imagining like some stance you're in Yes, you weren't even thinking like why are we fighting now? No, that's secondary why why you're in. Is you just like, fuck you up. Yes. You weren't even thinking like, why are we fighting? No, no, that's secondary. Why are you fighting?

It's for later. We can talk about it. Why are we both attacking my girlfriend? Yeah, no, and I got the visual, cause I remember, yeah, whenever you break somebody's nose is gross. It's blood everywhere. There's, it's just nasty.

See, I can't say that Because when you say whenever you break someone never knows it means it's happened to you more than once Yes, that is correct. You didn't say when I broke a person's nose. I was alright whenever I break a person's nose What are you doing out there? No, I man you're slapping asses. You've got ass slap wounds. You're breaking fucking noses Oh, why is this peaceful place? You're breaking fucking noses. Oh, why is this peaceful place? Bolleley comes to town till I arrived this cracking thunderous sound of your hand smacking your fucking martial artists lovers ass

echoing through the oh high hills Followed by the crunch of the nose of probably someone who just came to your door because they were like having a bad mushroom trip. You know, actually we have been having sonic booms because the SpaceX is launching close by. So about once a week, the whole damn town shakes. It's like having a 4.0 quake kind of thing where it's like everything shakes, the dog freak out. So I think it's my ass's lap is going to be the next the counter to the sonic bow.

But you know, actually, what you said is funny, because it's real is there's a lot of people that I run into and I realize, you know, we understand each other, we come from the same place. And I start talking, and I realize, well, we do come from different places, because they usually, these are people, especially know I were sort of grown up, upper middle class, fairly wealthy, fairly. And in my mind, I'm like, you know, when you break somebody's nose or you know when and I say things and I see horror in their eyes. We're just like, oh, you don't know. You haven't been. I tried so hard not to do that. Because you just don't understand. You can really wound people.

Not even because you're saying something mean to them. I had the same experience. I had the same experience. I was just casually talking about how on another podcast, I was making a joke about a pit bull would climb in my window and I'd have to filet it. And I hang out with comics. Yeah, and and You know I hang out with Comic yeah, it's the normal. It's fine. Yeah, and you know

That's the kind of thing that any blowing a pitbull is not gonna even raise an eyebrow of course if anything if someone will add There'll be questions about the taste and then This is like a dinner, and I really did not intend offense. Of course, of course. And then as I'm telling the story and I realize like this terrible silence and this kind of sadness on their faces. And it's like, and I know now there's really

nothing I can do. Because I have talked about making a joke about blowing a fucking pit bull. And I don't know how to repair that. Yeah, how do I walk that back? There's no way. There's no way to fucking walk it back. That's brilliant.

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Investing involves risk. Offer is subject to TNCs. Yeah, that is a that's again it goes back to what we're talking about. Not everybody speaks the same language. Context. Context. Yeah, you have to like, you have to understand that. It's weird that most people, that seems to be lacking to some degree, but not really.

You know what, when I get around most people, there is a normal, even people who I know, what I really love is getting in a conversation with someone who's made an assessment of me based on who I'm friends with. Yeah. Oh, that's the worst. That's the fucking, like, I hate the whole guilt by association stuff. And for one, the assessment they made is generally a poor assessment of the person that they're judging that I'm friends with but then because of that blah blah but then it's fun to talk with him, yeah, because

After they talk with you for a few minutes there's some confusion that comes over their face wait a minute I thought you know what you're not Andrew date or whatever the fuck. Yeah, and then It's a beautiful moment really because it's and then also if I've made judgments about them That starts falling away and you realize like oh god the poison These Aztec gods goes back to the other fuck if they done to us What the fuck wouldn't it be better to just from time to time drag someone on top of a pyramid and cut their fucking heart out Yeah, and then their fucking heart out. And then we're all friends.

Yes, I think that's, I would vote for you. We gotta get back to that. Yes, yes, we're missing, no, because I mean seriously, this level of suffering that's extracted in this way, it's unreal, it's like affects almost anyone who has online access on a daily basis to some degree or another. And you sort of start poisoning your personality or attitude, the way you respond to people.

I did it as an experiment recently on social media stuff where I would say something, and of course it doesn't even matter what you say. You're always gonna have a four or five people who are like, you fucking suck, I hate you. This is the most horrible thing anyone has ever said. And, you know, usually the classic response is either block or, you know, really let them have it and I've done it. And, you know, it feels good in the moment, but it's probably not the best most productive use of my time and energy. And then there have been times where like, I'll

completely step out of character in whatever those dynamics are. And I'll be like, hey, man, if you disagree with what I said, that's cool. Fuck, I barely agree with myself half of the time, so maybe I am saying something stupid. But if you tell me this way, I'm not going to hear you, because you're just coming out of the gate being a dick.

If you tell me in a different way, I may actually listen to you. And you know what's fun is like, not all the time of course, because some people will be like, fuck you and die anyway, but like eight out of 10 will switch their tone. And we'll go like,

wait, but what I meant was da da da da. And they're still kind of 80% dicks. And then I played one level four, one level, and by the end, you know, we are best friends and we're getting along And then you're like you want to go get coffee? Yeah, pretty much and then they come and get coffee and you strangle him Of course, that's it was all a set up. It was all a set up to lower their fucking nose Exactly, and that's the angle dude. Yeah, my friend had this technique Where you know someone would come at him or pissed at this or that

And instead of ignoring it you like oh my god shit Mean if you hate you know I was looking at your profile and I kind of need some I was I've been looking for an assistant And I kind of need some I was looking for an assistant And immediately they'd be like I'm a real fan of her I'd love to work with you like Instantaneously whatever the fucking crazy shit was the moment there was like a chance to work with him curse, dude So last night I tell you what I saw how we doing on time Josh so last night, I gotta tell you what I saw.

How are we doing on time, Josh? So last night, last minute, I got a text from Rogan. He's like, you wanna go see Age of Disclosure here at South by Southwest? Do you know what that is? So this was the second showing of what, I've been on Reddit. I go on Reddit. I can't remember if it's Alien or UFO.

It's the UAP subreddit. And they've been talking about this doc for a while saying this is like a lot of people are saying this is the most important disclosure doc that has come out yet. The dude who made it, made it in secret for two years, knowing that if the wrong people found out this was being made, they would find a way to stop it. Holy shit, it was so cool, theater full of people. And I'm guessing many of them are up to date on the UAP phenomena. Probably some of them are like up to date on the UAP phenomena

probably some of them are just south by southwest. Right first time of course. And so the genius of this thing though I wouldn't say there's a lot of like new data was that it's so many high ranking government officials, bipartisan, from so, you've got Air Force, Navy, intelligence, you've got the usual suspects like Elizondo and stuff, you've got, but it's so Harry Reid, Marco Rubio, on and on and on and on and on. Just, it's just interview after interview after interview after interview after interview with these people mutually, pretty much mutually saying,

we have alien fucking wreckage and we have been reverse engineering it and this is where it gets really cool I guess this was the new data for me that I'd heard bits and pieces of it stop me if you've heard this anyone listening as soon as this thing's available watch it so here's how it works It's so weird I think marco rubio is talking about this, um, so essentially Elizondo and all these other people start realizing these uips are showing up and it's a national security threat What the fuck is this? It's going 40 000 miles per hour and it's stopping on a dime 40,000 miles per hour and it's stopping on a dime.

We have no technology like that at all. So of course, they're like, let's figure out what the fuck this is. What is it? And in the exploration of this phenomena, they realize that there is something called the Legacy Program, which is some shadowy, mysterious coalition of, I don't know, deep state operatives who, for a long time,

have been cleaning up UFO wreckage. And then they don't clean it up. They involve private, like Lockheed Martin. So what happens is suddenly Lockheed Martin goes to clean up a UFO, or it's under the umbrella of a private corporation, meaning you don't have to do freedom of information acts with them, completely private.

So if you go to the federal government to try to fish around for this shit, you're not going to find it because it's not happening at the federal level. It's happening in some weird shadowy partnership. And so I had no idea. They just tried to pass this bill. Do you know about this? They just tried to pass this bill. Do you know about this? They just tried to pass a bill

that was the most like definitive disclosure bill ever. Basically saying, if there's alien wreckage, knowledge of any of these craft, knowledge of any of this, you must let us know. You can't keep it secret anymore. Now you would think something like that would just get past. No, of course not. I would think there's no chance in hell it would just.

But why? Why would you think it wouldn't get past? Because why would you want it to be out there in front of everybody? If it's stuff that you're still trying to figure out what the hell to do with it, how you can use it. It's like, why would you? Never mind the possible consequences of mass panic.

Never mind. I mean, it can affect. They talk about that. Yeah. They talk about all these considerations. They've said, and it's really amazing how much of these government people are saying, we have had meetings discussing the repercussions of letting people know everything that apparently we know about this shit.

And now it looks like bipartisan, most people are Chuck Schumer, Marco Rubio, the late, great Harry Reid, all these people are saying no. It is essentially a crime to know that we are not alone in the universe and not share that information. The government does not have the right to withhold something of this magnitude from the planet. And it's sadly nothing to do with some compassionate sense of not wanting to create mass hysteria,

but as it turns out, fear of prosecution, because apparently a lot of laws have been broken in the sharing of this technology with various private contractors and not other ones. Lawsuits would happen. That's why the pushback. The pushback is people think their ass is on the line, so they're now trying to pass a new bill, and the new bill is saying amnesty, meaning. From ear forward, but not in the past.

No, in the past. You get pure amnesty. Oh, right. Yeah. No, no. Like everything done before amnesty, we start from scratch. And they think that's going to get it pushed through. And whoa, that's crazy. Yeah, that would be interesting to see. So have you seen any orbs or anything out there in OI? Because people I know who live out there

say they see shit sometimes. I guess it could be space eggs. No, not out there. I did have once, more than once. Definitely once. I remember once, like many years ago, I was camping in Wyoming or something like that. And I'm about to go to sleep.

I'm outside my tent. I'm looking at the sky, pretty beautiful. I see a couple of planes cross by and I'm like, cool. And I see this thing that has flashing lights. So it looks like a plane. It's like, it's clearly a plane. It's moving at a certain speed. And the next second, and I swear, no psychedelics involved, no nothing.

It just sped up at about a hundred times the speed it was going before in a zigzag pattern. Yeah. And I was like, what the hell was that? You know? That was... It's one of them. Right. I was like, that was weird. Okay. Here's where it gets cool, man. What you just described is happening so much that they now have a set of, I can't remember what they called it,

but it's a set of characteristics of these things. And from that, just a set of characteristics, they've been able to theorize what the fuck is happening. So take the Tic Tac, for example. Commander Fravor sees this fucking thing, it's going 40,000 miles per hour or something, it's like insanely fast. When I've seen the footage of that thing, I get frustrated because I'm like, what the fuck? They don't have better cameras or whatever? Of course. No, as it turns out, when you're picking these things up,

when you're filming these fucking things, they do have a weird blurriness that would make you think it's being intentionally blurred. That's not what's happening. That's just what they look like. And the reason that they look like that, according to this awesome theory, is there is an anti-grav. Essentially the theory is, and I know I sound like that what's cool about this documentary is it's just it's not people like me babbling. It's like, these are people who've like worked in the DOD for 20 years. Right. And so they're saying that there's a bubble

around these things that's warping time space that inside the bubble, time is moving differently than outside the fucking bubble. Somehow this disparity in time-space configuration allows them to accelerate in ways that we've never seen before and stop without turning into fucking jelly. And the other crazy thing they said

is the new radar systems they have are allowing them to peer through the bubble now and see that there are vehicles inside, cubes, weird fucking cubes. Okay. What the fuck? Yeah. It was so cool.

Theater full of people. And I just kept looking around and like just looking at people like trying to process. Of course. This is not Alex Jones. No, no, no, of course. But I mean, even like even in the news, like remember when when was that, like two months ago or something, they were all the quote unquote drones over New Jersey. And the government was like, yeah, we don't know what the hell that is.

Not ours, not our technology. We don't get it. And then it just kind of disappear from the news. I don't know if they try to put a bow on it at the end and try to give an explanation. I may have missed out some stuff, but remember how he was constantly in the news and then it just, from one day to the next, it just disappear with no,

maybe there was an explanation that I missed. I don't know. I think Trump gave a very frustrating explanation because he said he was gonna look into it. And I think he just- Trump, a frustrating explanation, that never happens. I think he just said it's ours. Oh yeah, yeah.

After spending a month saying it's not. Yeah, that's exactly what the fuck. Yeah, well, you know, this phenomenon is happening so much now that not only is it like, apparently a national security threat, it is a threat to just planes, right? You don't like we don't we don't know what the fuck these things are Yeah, no idea or they one of the theories is they're coming from the ocean

That they've got bases down there. We've we don't know what 80 if it's down there. The other theory Is extraterrestrial hyperdimensional? the other theory which is really fucked up, is this is what Rubio was saying. So you have like this legacy program, right? There's someone in it. They know that these things are crashing. They know they can collect the debris. He's saying it's an arms race, essentially, because these things are showing up all over the planet and you don't want, if you know one of these things

has crashed, you don't want China or Russia to get it, you want to get it. Because if we can reverse engineer the tech, then we're going to have incredible superiority. So this race happens, where people go to try to scoop up the fucking wreckage and you know this is a deep government program. It's happening. But time passes. And whoever had that position working to get this shit scooped up retires. New person comes in. Person doesn't get quite as much information. Then a new person comes in, less information.

This now, what's left is some group of private contractors that has no connection to the federal government anymore but is reversed engineered this tech and is using it to make shit tons of money. And that's the whole creepy thing is maybe what we're seeing is actually not maybe at one point something crashed. But what we're seeing is some fucking Lockheed Martin test vehicle because they figured out a reverse engineer the shit. But the main takeaway is they're all over the goddamn place.

And I really at the end of this thing, my general theory was it's got to be our tech. But after this, I don't know, man. Yeah, yeah, of course. It gives you a real uneasy feeling like, oh, fuck, I hope it's our tech. Right, exactly. But if it's not our tech, if it's another country's tech. Yeah, that's not good. Or if it's... We're fucked. Yeah, it's not good either way. Yeah, no, I'll tell you.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a little on the... Yep, that's a little rough to contemplate. You don't want to believe it either. The other thing that I noticed in my own head was in what's beautiful about the documentaries is as it progresses, you don't want to believe it. For some reason. Sure. I mean, for obvious reason, because it happens any sense of stability you have in the world as it is. And so it's like, it definitely messes with your head. It's not something you want to be like, okay, everything I thought was true until the other day gets to be put in discussion today. That's not a fun feeling. It's a pretty uneasy

feeling. So of course, most people are going to, yeah, most people would freak out, 100%. Yeah, my wife and I were having a conversation. Like, it just realized like, the documentary was amazing in that it forces you to contend with like, okay, either. There's a bipartisan conspiracy to make people think that there is a superior technology existing on the planet with us that we have no idea what it is. And that doesn't sound right. There is an advanced civilization surveilling our fucking planet right now, and it's happening

more and more and more and more like they just discovered us or something and now they're checking us out. Which of course raises the question, why? Because that's a little unsettling, the possible answers. I mean, some could be good, but again, the fact that it's an open-ended thing is a bit unsettling. That's the creepy part. Yeah.

Is that what does seem to be a commonality between all these people who are saying this shit, Stanford fucking professors. There's some professor from Stanford. The CIA shows up at Stanford. We want you to check these samples because these are people who have come into contact with these things. They're sick.

They're sick. People who have been around these things have like all kinds of fucked up problems. And so, again, this is someone, it's fucking Stanford. It's a, what the fuck does a Stanford professor have to gain from yapping about the CIA coming to his office so he can look at... Right. So, you know, he's just like, yeah, people who've been around these things have organ damage because whatever energy field these things are putting off, if you get too close, it fries you. It like, fucks up your organs.

Which is good news. I'm not good news, but it's good to hear. Someone like me, I see a fucking UFO in the forest. I'm gonna go check it out. Of course you would. You would? Oh, give me you wouldn't. If you saw a glowing cube in Ojai,

shimmering, glowing cube. You know what I would say? I'd say, Duncan, go and let me know what's up. All right, man. Come back and. No, you're probably right. I probably wouldn't go, but I'd be tempted to. How many of us out there though would do that?

It's just good to hear. Like if you do see a crash tic tac, stay the fuck away from it because it's gonna fry your ass Yeah, that's not a good feeling. Yeah. Well any parting thoughts Danielli? Parting thoughts parting. So, oh, you know what? I have to say these are I'm gonna fuck I think they probably kept my family hostage and they are ready to torture them. Otherwise, I have to bring this up So I ended up being I

Joined these two friends. we started a mushroom company. It's a mushroom not as in the good kind, mushroom as in the other stuff is like a cordyceps, chaga, right? Wow. Medicinal mushroom stuff. And I've been, you know, because I had access and stuff, I had been experimenting heavily with it. I've been thinking it. So, you know, just throwing it out there in case anyone is interested in that stuff. We started this company called Purest Mushrooms.

Check it out. Wait, you got to do a better pitch. Yeah, I mean, I'm shy because I'm not a commercial guy. I don't. But basically what it is, is you ever mess with any of the mushrooms like the medicinal? Not that I know you've messed with plenty of mushroom in another department, but like medicinal stuff, like anything from cordyceps. Yeah, cordyceps. I remember taking cordyceps and like I do. Did you feel anything?

Yeah, I did. Yeah, it had a positive effect, but I feel like I'm susceptible to placebo effects. So I think each one is different in what they can do. And also, you are different from the next guy. So what works for you may not work for the next guy. So what was your experience? What did you take? Cordyceps, to me, I noticed it in working out. It's just stamina was way better.

Yeah, same. I just had more energy. I could do more rounds. I normally would get to the end of a Jiu-Jitsu class and be dying on the mat. And I would be like, come on, guys. Let's do one more round like I normally would get to the end of the class and be like dying on the mat. And I would be like, come on, guys, let's do one more round. Is it quarter steps, the shit that grows off of caterpillars? And it's the one that's, you know, if you watch the last of us, that's cordyceps,

except that the good thing is so we're not about to unleash mushroom zombie apocalypse because you need your body temperature need to be. If it's We would be dead if for the necessary temperature for cordyceps to start taking over our body So instead we just get stamina, which is not a bad, but you do harvest them because they grow off of Cardis apes usually know as far as I know cordyceps grows I think it's wood. I think is we got it Cordyceps grows, I think it's wood. I think it's wood.

We got it. Cordyceps mushrooms from Daniele Bollelli, harvested from caterpillars. And gnomes, of course. And if you're too cold, they'll fucking grow all over your ass. Yes, exactly. That's exactly what happens.

I'll pitch that up front to you, man. You gotta give us the website for that. Yes, of course. I'd love to try some too. Cool, I have some for you. Oh, beautiful. Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to catch up. I know man. I haven't seen you in too long This is the longest we have gone without podcasting since I first met you. It's not good for my soul

2012 gotta move here. I know the fuck out of Ohio. What are you doing out there? Come out here slap some asses break some noses. Let's do it. All right. I love you, man. Thank you.