Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 698: Johnny Pemberton

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Johnny Pemberton, acclaimed actor and comedian, co-host of The Leather Rose, and one of Duncan's oldest friends re-joins the DTFH! Want to see one of Johnny's upcoming shows? You can find links to all of them on Johnny's site, JohnnyPemberton.dog! Come see him in Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Springfield, and Kansans City this summer! This episode is brought to you by: Elevate your closet with Quince. Go to Quince.com/Duncan for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Minnesota Nice Ethnobotanicals wants to help you escape the matrix of stress and reconnect with the earth’s ancient wisdom—go to mn-nice-ethnobotanicals.com/duncan and use code DUNCAN20 for 20% off your first order of Amanita Muscaria Capsules! For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off at Ridge by using code DUNCAN at checkout. Just head to Ridge.com and use code DUNCAN and you’re all set!

Greetings to you my friends. It's me D True Cell and this is the Doug Atrussle Family Hour podcast now Today's guest is an acclaimed actor He's been in the fallout series. You must watch him in the upcoming indie film mermaid He's a brilliantly funny Super unique comedian who I had the good fortune of coming up with as a comic. We've been friends for a long time. You might have heard our podcast, The Leather Rose.

It is beloved by many who love deep cuts. And you might have seen us take on this character or that, acting like this person or that. What some call improvisational comedy. We do that on the podcast sometimes. But every once in a while, we do an actual podcast. And after this episode, I began to wonder, what are we doing? Why are we playing make-belief as silly things when we could be having these incredible conversations? This is what we talk like when we're on the phone.

Why suddenly are you like some kind of dog inspector and I'm someone who used to be a butterfly? Johnny's brilliant. This was a really heavy conversation about memory, the CIA, reality, and the singularity. Also, Johnny's got some shows coming up. You can find all these at johnnypemberton.dog, but since he was so generous with his time for this episode, I would be remiss if I did not announce these dates.

July 23rd, you can find him in Oklahoma City at Brick Town July 24th. He's going to be in Tulsa, Oklahoma at the Looney bin August 1st through 2nd Springfield at the Blue Room. I love that club August 3rd the Kansas City Funny Bone September 12th to the 13th He's going to be in Janesville, Wisconsin at Cabin. And then he's wrapping up this mini tour September 18th to the 20th in Sunnyvale, California. Eroostas! Go see him live. He is so funny, so unique. You are going to have a blast. Hey, this is me from the future, realizing that I

forgot to remind you of something we've been doing. It's a new experiment in the DTFH. We've been doing live DTFHs and they are fun and I'm really loving doing them. So if you're interested in watching one of these, follow me on Twitter. It's usually where I announce it. Subscribe on YouTube and you will be given, generally, unfortunately, some short warning. We're trying to fix that, but they'll let you know when we're going live. So we could all hang out together. Everyone participates.

We've all made great friends and we're all going to live together in a compound in Waco, Texas. I'm going to learn what it's like to say goodbye to those terrible bonds that cause us to configure our souls to outdated reproductive patterns such as marriage. Now I am monogamous with my wife, but the fact that you're monogamous with your wife or girlfriend is one of the signs that when I open the eighth seal, things aren't going to go great for you. And I am more than happy to take the burden of sex from your shoulders. I know they're causing your shoulders to droop. And I will make love to your wife in Waco. And I have to because God told me to. So first, the first step, subscribe. God told me to. So, first, the first step, subscribe. The next step, move to Waco with your wife.

Be there when I open the eighth seal, because that's, let me tell you, it's not easy to open. I'm having to get a locksmith to do it, because there's like, it's actually seal, there's more than, like, there's a lot of seals in the eighth seal. It's not just the standard seal, like waxy and easy to pop open, which I didn't know when I said I was gonna open it. I had no idea that this was like a triple lock seal. It's on a bank vault basically. Anyway, come see us in Waco, but first subscribe. It's on YouTube, Dunk of Trussell. The link is in the comments section, dunkoftrussell.com.

I'd love for you to join the family, become part of the central pulsing core of the DTFH. Stick your finger in the light socket of the divine and let your soul be vibrated by the intense metaphysical outflow of light that happens during each of these live episodes. That like a tsunami of love spreads into default reality and is beginning to crack the very girders of the reptilian agenda And I will make love to your wife. Let me reiterate You can subscribe At YouTube and now everybody welcome Johnny Pemberton to the DTFH

Johnny P is back on the DTFH. Jonny P is back on the DTFH. One of the most requested guests on the DTFH with us today is Jonny Pemberton, hilarious comedian, renowned actor. You can catch him in the upcoming Indie Mermaid as well as the beloved fallout series. Jonny, God bless you, man. I just, I've been praying for you. as well as the beloved fallout series. Johnny, God bless you, man. I just, I've been praying for you every night.

Oh, thank you so much for praying for me. I appreciate that. Love getting prayer. I love hearing the call of prayer come out at midnight and sundown. I love it so much. That call of prayer. There needs to be a Christian version of that.

What? There needs to be a Christian version of that. What? There needs to be a Christian version of the call to prayer. It's called the sun coming up. Because I don't need a bugler to tell me to pray. I don't need somebody in a tower yelling into a megaphone. I just need the sun coming up, the sun going down. I just need the wind blowing is my call to prayer. The sound of a bird to eating at a tree.

What about a still dark day? What about a still dark day? What you gonna do on a still dark day? A still dark day is a call to prayer. When my mistress slaps my scrotum hard. Call the prayer. I love getting my scrotum scrapped. When I've done a dip in ice cold water and my scrotum is just locked in like a little rubber ball, I love getting it snapped with something like a, something like the back of a hand

with a nice four inch nail, not four inch, but you know, a long nail, a long nail. Yeah, I do love a puncture here and there, or just a, you know, a wedding ring. A wedding ring, just a well-placed wedding ring smack on my old shriveled up, iced down scrote. A metal knock knock? A little metal knock knock on the pleasure door. Ooh, a little, a little.

Knock knock. Knock knock, who's there? Ding dong buckets. You know, that is crazy to think that was the name of a serial killer. It's weird how many serial killers there are. Ding, dong, buckets. Ding, dong, buckets, the knock, knock man.

Or, you know, it's so fucked up. Yeah, his MO was knocking on the doors of people. That's how he would kill them. He'd knock on the door, and if they didn't answer, then he would, and they were home? Yeah. So he would make sure to know people were home and then he'd be like, he got so angry that he was being denied just the common decency of answering the door. Yes. That he would be like, he would go on the back door and he would kill them. Yep. So that people started, that's why everyone answers their door now. Well, dude, I will say this.

Ding dong buckets won't kill you as long as you answer the door now. Well, dude, I will say this. Ding Dong Buckets won't kill you as long as you answer the door. Because he's like, okay. Did you watch the Netflix doc, Ding Dong, You're Dead? I watch every Netflix doc the second it comes out. It's pretty good. You know, obviously, like I love obscure serial killers. Right.

And I did not think that they would get any kind of new angles on Ding Dong Buckets, but to me though, what they really underlined that somehow I missed is how fascinating is that even after people were saying, Ding Dong Buckets is a serial killer, don't answer your door if they say it's Ding Dong Buckets, like seven people that he killed after being front page of the New York Times, ding-dong buckets, the ding-dong killer, they still open the door when he said it's ding-dong buckets.

But you're supposed to open the door. That's the thing. According to this doc, you don't open the door for ding-dong buckets. I think he must have heard it wrong. I think he changed. Oh, well he must have changed midstream because that yeah I guess that would make sense because he was probably the word got out that he was not he was killing only people who didn't answer so people uh they and now he's like well I'll I'll change it up and that's what he said in the uh

one of the interrogation videos is that the first time Somebody realizing it's ding-dong buckets and they thought that they could trick him by opening the door. It worked He said he stood there. He looked the person in the eye. They looked him in the eye He had the ding-dong buckets outfit on chimney sweep outfits suspenders the gold stars and They're looking stars. I like that right? I think it's free. You know, I think it is. It I like that. I think it's very, you know what I think it is? It's very smart. I think it's smart. I think it was- Smart looking in the classic sense, like smart like that.

It was an homage to David Bowie. Yes, yeah, when Bowie was doing his military phase. Yep. And the, yeah, and apparently he just stood there. This was Francis Click, who actually wrote the preeminent book on Ding Dong Buckets, Empty Buckets, and apparently they just looked at each other and Ding Dong Buckets was so confused,

and Click was like, my God, what's he gonna do? And Ding Dong Buckets apparently just said, fuck off. And then walked away because he realized he'd been had. And then after that, I should have killed him. Buckets and bags and bags and bags. That's that old rhyme. Yeah. Buckets and bags and bags and bags. Pick up a needle and stop for swags. Find a camel, count as humps. Knock knock. Who who's there I don't want to find out

yeah that doesn't it doesn't rhyme that's the modern ring around the Rosie the ding-dong buckets yeah that all the kids were doing in neighborhoods of suburban New Jersey during that reign of terror that's the that's literally the the first paragraph in Knock Knock You're Dead. I love the idea of a reign of terror. Reign of terror? It's so hard to establish that these days. I'm going on a little tour. I'm going to be in Oklahoma City July 23rd, Tulsa the 24th.

Then I'll be in Springfield, Missouri on August 1st and 2nd. Then I'll be in Kansasfield, Missouri on August 1st and 2nd. Then I'll be in Kansas City on August 3rd. And so I was thinking about tiling that toward the reign of terror, but evidently you can't do it. You have to do it posthumously. You can't call something a reign of terror. Mid rain. Yeah. You have to, you have to terrorize first. And then they say it was a reign of terror.

Yeah, that's a problem right now is a lot of people don't realize that they're giving themselves posthumous titles They don't realize that the you are called that later. You can't say now That you're a legend Like it's like I'm a legend after death that you're a legend. Like you become a legend after death. You're not a legend now. You can't say living legend, no such thing.

A legend is 100 years old. That's why you say living legend. You have to qualify with living. And even then that's something where, who is that? Well, it's a horrible person. If you think you're a living legend, you're a horrible person. You know, like that, there are very few ways to really legend, you're a horrible person. You know, like that, there are very few ways

to really find out you're a horrible person. And the top way is if you've ever seriously referred to yourself as a living legend, you are a terrible person. I mean, you're not a living legend, you're not a legend, you're just annoying. There's no such, you can't say it. It's like saying you're like a li- you're a living ghost. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I guess a Huck Finn kinda did it, right? When he faked his death and got to see his funeral? Yeah, but that's fuckin' Huckleberry Finn, a true legend. Fictional legend. Right. Fictional legend. Hopefully based on an actual character, but I doubt there was a real Huck Finn. It'd be nice But I'll be so great dude. It'd be fucking great the real

I'm like the living Huck Finn. I'm sure there's people who say that you know I gotta ask you your thoughts of this Because I don't remember who I was talking to but I I was seriously saying There to this person, there are people who legitimately think about after they die how they'll be remembered. That's something that they think about all the time. They think about they want to be remembered after they die as a legend or they want to be you know like it's that stupid song fame I'm gonna write it's like I have never in my consideration of things that I want Thought to myself boy. I hope people remember me after I'm dead. I don't give a shit. I have I have

Why do you have I don't care? I'm just saying I have thought about I'm not saying I really care I'm saying I have thought about it. I mean it's like saying you've never thought about that ever. You were born Who gives you weren't born yet? You're dead, who gives a fuck? Yeah. You know, you know what I mean? Like who gives a fuck? You're dead. I agree. I think that, I mean, I'm saying that I have thought about it, but I definitely have, then

I realized like how ridiculous it is. Because I think that honestly, the thing that makes me think about it the most is how many people don't know who Mark Twain is. Cause like Mark Twain is probably the most, maybe one of the most important people in the last 300 years in the world. Like he kind of, kind of invented stand up comedy in a way accidentally. Probably one of the greatest, greatest authors of all time. Super progressive.

He invented fingerprinting analysis, not even knowing it. What? All kinds of stuff. Are you making that up? No, he has a book called Put in Head Wilson about this detective who does fingerprint analysis to find someone. And this was like so far ahead of time before anyone even thought that was a thing. And also Mark Twain was born when Haley's Comet showed up and he died when Haley's Comet returned. So like an alien. I mean, I think it's pretty plausible that Mark Twain was an alien because he influenced culture so much it makes sense that he was some sort of like an intelligence that was planted to change the course of history. And there's people who were like, you know, they're not 80s or 90s.

They're not like super low IQ. They just don't know who that guy is. Or if they do know him, it's sort of like, I've heard that name before. And if someone- I'm so glad you're bringing this up. You know what I mean? Like if someone has a legacy, it would be him.

And he doesn't have a legacy at all. Well, like- Not anymore, really. So exactly. So, you know, Mark Twain, probably an alien, weirdly connected to the Heaven's Gate cult, which I believe all one of them- Is he really?

On alive themselves when a comet was going over- Oh, right. That was Hale Bopp, right? Hale Bopp. But basically the notion that comets bring with them good or bad fortune or that angels ride on them and incarnate on Earth. It's like a, it's out there.

But- It kinda makes sense though, doesn't it? With Mark Twain it does, not with Evans Gate call it. Cause if I was a fucking spaceship and those dumbasses tried to come on my ship, he'd be like, hell no. That's like a hitchhiker, you're not picking up. No, dough or whatever is fucking boring.

You don't get to ask. It's that thing where- I do. It's got to be where... Are you going to ask? When's the next comet that's coming by? No, I'm saying if I'm flying in a comet and people are unaliving themselves to teleport into my comet just because they think they can, it's like, no, fuck you. Why do you think you were even invited? Get out of here.

Right, exactly. By the very nature of asking, you're disinvited. Disinvited? Go. Look at your fucking stupid what? You cannot ask. Look at your fucking stupid sneakers. Why are you all wearing the same sneakers? You're not coming on this ship.

No way. We came here to pick up unbaptized children's souls. But the point is. That's where they go. When people are stressing themselves out, there's so many ways to stress yourself out. When people are stressing themselves out, there's so many ways to stress yourself out. And one way to really stress yourself out is to worry about what people are gonna think about you after you die.

And it's of all the forms of stressing yourself out, it's really the one that like it's absurd, absurd. Yeah. You're dead. I think a lot of people do think about it because they think about like if you have like loved ones or something like that, there's legacy. It's also the idea that you know, you want people to be cared for that you love. And so you're worried that they, they will have, they won't, you know know they won't want for things so you want to make have the legacy of like Yeah, you being remembered after you died is not monetizable necessarily

Right, but that's I'm sure any like any of the Tesla family are fucked there. They're like yeah He changed the course of history. We've got light because of him. But yeah, you think we're getting a fucking penny of Tesla money? Nothing. No, dude. No, they're driving Ubers and shit. They're just scraping by. They're in the gig economy.

So, I don't think being remembered does anything more than like, it's like stresses. Because then it's like, what? You're, wait, you were related to fucking Tesla. You must be Loaded with that. You must be rich. Yeah, so it's a curse It's a curse. Yeah, it's definitely a curse then there's so many people like that It's they're cursed by their legacy actually instead of the opposite. How about don't remember me when I die I mean, I want my family to remember me fondly, but after that, give me out of your fucking head, man. Please, don't think about me, that's creepy.

Think about something else. What is the thing in some culture where it's like, you're only, you're alive as long as the last person who knew you living is still alive. So once like someone who met you, like a child who met you, once they die, then you're fully dead. Yeah, that's how I look at it. But you're bopping around a little bit until then.

I like that idea. You've got a neurological echo, massively distorted. You know, whatever that kid was saw you come out of a bathroom and like smelled the stinky shit you took. And it's like, God, I hope I never grow up. And that's the last'm so nice to kids. Remembers you some kid who just wore whatever he's his mind and coated it because of the foulness of your fucking bowel movement.

That's it. But the opposite, though. Kids are like, oh, he was so there's some there's some guys I remember from from my childhood, I'm like, that was the coolest guy of all time. I have no idea where he is now if he's dead or not but I think about I'm like wow that was that guy was so fucking cool as an adult I don't know if they actually were that cool but in my mind it's like that was just the most amazingly cool guy ever like mr. wizard right so like mr. wizard, you know my, um... I want to thank Quince for supporting this episode of the DTFH. Look, I am a handsome, beautiful man in his 50s.

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And they smell like old lemon rinds and the bottom of nuns' feets. I didn't like them. Feets. And I do say feets, not feet. The new plural of feet is feets. Listen, I'm just all about stuff that fits right, feels good, and actually lasts. That's why I keep coming back to quince. Their lightweight layers and high quality staples have become my everyday essentials. I love them! They've got the kind of stuff you'll actually wear on repeat. Like breathable flow-knit polos. You don't want some old stuffy, fixiating polo.

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on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash Duncan to get free shipping and 365 day returns. It's quince dot com slash duncan. I mean, I mean that. Like, uh, okay, my cousin Glenn. God rest his soul. You know, I remember him. It's one of my earliest memories.

And he was so funny. And he would make me and my brother laugh so hard. He's the first person who taught me the old take off the thumb trick. The thumb trick. And it blew my mind. It horrified me because I thought he could remove his thumb and I was unsure. He's just really silly and funny.

So yeah, I get that but, you know, I don't think Glenn ever paid any mind to people remembering him. It's like also. Oh yeah. We have to talk about the encoding mechanism here. Like of all the ways of encoding data, memory is one of the most prone to distortion. So it's so distortible. I didn't learn that until not that long ago.

You know, the whole thing about Brian, is it Brian Williams, the newscaster? He kind of got disgraced a bit. You know, he got disgraced because he claimed to have been on this helicopter that was shot down, but it wasn't, he was in fact not on this helicopter, but it's because he was on the helicopter next to it. Evidently, there's some kind of a trauma response with your memory where you co-opt the experience. And once you say it like a few times, the memory is, it is as real to you as if it happened. There's no difference.

That's right. And so this thing with this poor fucking guy who experiences hellish experience gets like disgrace because he didn't actually happen to him, even though his brain for some reason did think it did happen to him. So we're all just like, you fucking liar, you liar. You fucking liar.

You only saw a helicopter get shot down. You weren't on it, you need to be on it if you want helicopter crash credit. You know. It's sad. So the way it works is really interesting, which is it's not like there's a set of like, I don't know, there's like a set of code in your mind

representing a memory. Every, whenever you like remember something, it, you recreate it, it's not drawing from anything and you re-encode it. No. So, every time you're pulling your memory out and putting it back in, it's gonna change a little bit. It's like recording the same video over the tape. It's the same video.

It's the zero out of, you're making a copy of the copy. Exactly. And then over time, that is so prone to distortion, and that is where some of the MK Ultra stuff is, dude, did I send you, like, Kurt Mexker sent me, dude, it's great, I love being friends with him, because he's doing all my work for me. I used to have to dig for this shit. He's like an MKUltra computer, basically.

It is the deep cuts every time, and it's also, you read it, it's my favorite type of thing, because you read it and you're like, this isn't real, and then you look it up, it's fucking real. So he sends me these deep cuts. So he starts sending me an obscure

obscure like intellectuals and obscure historians that Each one is just a rabbit hole that would send even the most stable of people into a drooling like fucking fetal position, because of how absurd, how just outlandish it is. Can't be real, you're like, this can't be real, this can't be real, he's nuts, there's no way this is fucking real.

And then you're like, god damn it, it's fucking real. But so, yeah, he sent me some Freedom of Information Act MKUltra files, and dude, the shit that they did, it is so nuts and it really like emphasizes what we're talking about. This is just the notes of somebody working for the CIA. They've got a Russian prisoner. They, and you know,'ve got a Russian prisoner. It's a glowing report, the report is excited. Whatever it was they were theorizing has worked.

They're so happy. And what they did is they gave this person a perfect combination of drugs that they discovered, sodium pentothal, some other shit, some benzos, I guess. And they regressed this person. So they got the person back to their childhood Regress them the person Who's writing the report is? Happily not saying like I'm the worst kind of monster that could ever exist in the world because I just did something

That is like just as blasphemous as blasphemous could be they're excited what they've done is they regressed a person to a childhood state, and they were really happy because the person thought that the CIA operative, because they were so high, childhood friend. So the person was referring to the CIA operative as a childhood friend, they thought they were really friendly with him and happy, maybe excited to see him,

he didn't mention that but you know It's like be like if we hadn't seen each other for a long time, right? Like Johnny had you get here man. You're like, dude. Oh, we're hanging out man. How's life? What do you know? It's greatly I'm working on this SR 71 blackbird. It's a top secret Dude this blackbird is insane. No way goes It goes Mach 3 and it's made of titanium. And we're building it all in this play area. We're building it. That's nuts.

I won't tell anybody, dude. We're building it actually in Burbank. It's crazy. Yeah, it's called Skunk War. Because nobody knows. There's a secret stairway that goes from the third floor of this really boring office up into our office. And nobody even knows it's there.

Oh, wow. It's so good to see you, man. I love it when you talk about your work, man. And you know, I trust you too. Yeah, you know, my grandfather's kind of sick. Did you say third floor of Skunk Works? What'd you say? Yeah, third floor.

I'll give you the address. I'll write it down for you here. Oh, I'll write it down. I mean, I don't care. I'll remember it. Don't worry about it. You should come visit. Actually, you can't come visit,

but I'll tell you everything you wanna know about it. You should come visit. Actually, you can't come visit, but I'll tell you everything you want to know about it. So where it even gets more fucked up. Was this way, was this the 60s though? Yes, but where, and they stopped. Of course, they would never keep doing this incredible interrogation method. But they, the other part that he was very excited about was they induced amnesia. Meaning that the prisoner had no idea this interaction had happened. So that's like men in black, it's the thing, it's the beach, looking at the wow. Now again, this is just notes, we don't know if it's real, I mean it's from the CIA,

it's freedom of information, but the veracity of the report itself could be misinformation who the fuck knows but if it's true that means any one of us could have had this happen yeah it points to the potential it's like what was that show everybody left i couldn't watch it not because it wasn't good because it just gave me the existential creeps. Where the, if you wanted to, you could split your life in half. There's a half of you that goes to work. Tracker. Oh, Severance.

Severance. I haven't watched it yet, but people love it. Tracker fills me with existential dread. Tracker. I haven't felt that way since I read Dostoevsky in college. But- I can't believe someone can track so well. Yeah, the um yeah it

points to this like possibility that any one of us could have had that happen to us and just not know and that is so fucking scary related to memory because if you could do that to a person you could definitely get them to remember things differently during one of those sessions. That's literally what they're doing. And that is so fucking spooky, man. It is. Yeah. I mean, all that stuff, I feel like something happened during the Cold War that got all

these incredibly smart, hardworking people to do stuff that they would never do otherwise. They were just able to galvanize. Like I told you about that book I'm reading about the Russian sub they found. What's it called again? It's called the taking or the, of S, I can't remember now. It's the name of the sub.

I think I sent you a picture of it, but it's called the taking of. The taking, it sounds like. The taking of K-129. How the CIA used Howard Hughes to steal a Russian sub and the most daring covert operation in history. I'm only halfway through, but you read about how much money they were spending, like how much public, you know, it's tax money. It's, uh, the government, how much government money they're spending to do something like the most that might've effort that went into this is it makes the space

program look like a fucking, like a, an after school special or something like that. Just gobs and gobs of money. And all of this is in the name of fighting the Russians during the Cold War, because there's something about the Cold War that just got like galvanized everyone together. I'm almost, I'm jealous of that camaraderie that people had in the 60s against the Russians. It's like the world's most perfect enemy and we all get to like band together to create all this crazy fucking shit. It's just insane. The stuff they used to do and M Cray Ultra is the same product of that. Cause they're trying to compete with this.

They've made the Russians out to be like this, this, uh, almost like, what would you call it? Like, uh, you know, something, it's not even an unreal version of something that is just so, so insidious powerful so so intelligent and conniving that you're like we have to do through everything we have at this because Especially once I got that fucking got those sputnik up there and shit. We were just like oh fuck dude the the so and what was beautiful about it is you is, it creates the classic feedback loop, because the Soviets thought the same shit about us.

So, the KGB was thinking the same thing, and now you got a perfect feedback loop of subterfuge that produce increasingly insane methods for dealing with the unknown. And yeah, you get MK Ultra. You get crazy, like communist tactics of infiltrating capitalist societies that both, you know, the KGB and the CIA,

or no, the KGB doesn't exist anymore, but definitely for the intelligence workers of the world, the Cold War, you know, it's speeded up the evolution of surveillance tech, of mind control programs, of propaganda, of instilling paranoia, intentional paranoia into systems. Well, because the gloves are off. Everyone felt like there was no morality injected in anything because the stakes were so high, because they thought about nuclear fallout, that they didn't even consider any of this stuff would be like, is this kind of evil what I'm doing? It's like, no, it's not evil because the Russians are

evil. They're going to fucking, they're going to destroy all life on earth if we don't do this. So these guys are just like, they're not even thinking about that. It's like fucking Russians. They're gonna destroy all life on earth if we don't do this. So these guys are just like, they're not even thinking about that. It's like being Mormon or something, where you just don't have to deal with like those old school Mormons back in the pioneer days. They didn't have, there was like no consideration whatsoever by if what they're doing is wrong or right,

because it's like, oh, I'm God. It's a crusade. I'm guided by God. It's a jihad. God told me. Yeah, and that is, once you plug people into that, holy order, whether it's coming from the divine or whether it's coming from some potential nuclear

catastrophe, they'll fucking do anything you want them to. And they'll do it with a smile on their fucking face. They'll do it and not, they'll do it and, you know, Darrell Cooper talks about this all the time. How he has the wonderful Martyr Made podcast. And I think he's one of the few podcasters out there who have the great honor of being called like a monster by a sitting president.

I think Joe Biden called him a monster. That's fucking awesome. Yeah, and the reason that happened is because he's a historian and his view is like, listen, obviously in history there are vile human beings like the Nazis, just fucking monstrous pieces of shit so it's not like he's saying like we need to rethink Hitler it's it's like bad Nazi bad but what happened how does that happen that's what he's interested in is what is the switch that gets flipped that's what he's interested in is what is the switch that gets flipped? That makes people, he's talking about the, what's it called, in Vietnam it's a famous,

it's a famous war crime that happened, My Lai or something. The My Lai Massacre. He talks about this and he says, you can read letters. These people were writing to their moms. I miss you mom, I love you, writing to their kids, their wives.

He's like, how is it that people suddenly turn into savage, immoral, violent demons like that? What the fuck is that? We should know what that is, it's scary, man. And so, yeah, once you learn how to flip that switch in groups of people, dude, that's a lot of power. You can really control it. It's a weapon. You can do whatever you want because you've got like basically suicide bombers at your disposal.

You got suicide bombers. You got anything you want. You got anything you want you got anything you want and it's like it's that you know it's you you gotta add I mean there's a really funny law in Texas which is if you walk in on your wife fucking somebody at your house you can kill them you can kill them and you've got an hour to kill them. I saw this whole breakdown of it. What? You don't have to kill them right away. You got to, I think there's a literal time frame within which you can kill them. Somebody broke it down. There's a cool down period?

Maybe it was Rogan. I don't remember what he was talking about. You could basically, you walk in, your wife is banging somebody. Yeah. They don't know you're there. You then go downstairs, make yourself a drink. You could watch an episode of The Simpsons and then you could go upstairs and kill them legally. You can kill both of them or just the guy? I don't know. I don't

know if you can kill them both or just the guy. But can a wife kill the husband? Yeah, it works both ways. I feel like that's one of those laws where they're like, ooh, maybe we should make it just men only. You know, men never cheat on their wives. Yeah, well, a man would never do that. Generally, the women are the ones. But yeah, this is the, at least the acknowledgement of the red boy, the point of the thing wasn't like,

to give a guy a chance to like take a shower, change into his murder clothes, relax a little bit, make a couple of, check his emails and then kill. The point was to acknowledge this thing that happens to people where they are no longer logical, where they are just violent, primordial, a middle. Yeah, it's like, vip.

Yeah, and this is why we have the different degrees of murder I've got the planned murder That's where you're gonna go to jail for a long time And then you've got red rage murder, which you didn't plan it at all you just walked in and there's your fucking wife with a Gardener's big old throbbing cock just deep in her mouth. She's- Gardeners do have the biggest dicks I've heard. Dude, I've done the study.

Yeah, people who grow a lot of plants successfully, they have huge big old wangers. That was my dissertation. That was my college dissertation. Really? Yep. And I studied a hundred gardeners. Yeah. I mean, I've tried to help you with your gardening,

you know, cause I'm such a, I do that so much, but I know you struggle a lot with the gardening. Honestly, the reason that I struggle with it is because like you, the size of your member flies in the face of my research. Yeah, you know, there's outliers. It kind of refutes, you would be considered an outlier based on that most of them have mad, you know what I mean. Well, I do have a handicap. I do have a handicap. It is, it's not good. You know, it's not like a- It's girthy. My wife is a lesbian because it's like we can't have normal intercourse because, you know, we do like basically lesbianic style intercourses.

I love lesbianics. Yeah, lesbianics is one of the, I mean, there's a reason- I'm studying it on Duolingo. Have you heard the phrase, let's be honest? Yeah, lesbianics is one of the, I mean, there's a reason. Have you heard the phrase, let's be honest? Yeah, of course. You know where that comes from, right? No. Lesbianics, lesbianics, let's be honest, let's be honest, let's be honest, let's be honest, let's be honest. That same thing. Is why it's important to stay on top of what's going on in language. New Language Daily is my go-to blog. That's why you never see lesbians run for office because they would be so effective that-

What do you mean, you never see lesbians run for office? It's just very uncommon for open, out of the closet lesbians to run for office because it's like they're effective. They're just so incredibly effective. It would be like, you know, it would undo everything. Well, I didn't say that and enjoy being canceled. That's the worst thing I ever heard. Cancelled. It's a compliment. It's a compliment. I'm saying, no, I'm kind of disappointed. Kind of disappointed. Kind of. I mean, a little. Kind of. A little. A little? Kinda? I'd love a lesbian

president. I would vote. I would be the first one in line. I don't think you would. How do you know that? I don't think you would. I love lesbians. You know, let's change the subject. I don't think you would. So you tell me more about your men's rights group. Well, it's burgeoning. It started for this coffee shop in Temecula. My friend Gerald P. Jason. Yeah, he he owns the

coffee, opens operates his coffee shop and it just caters to men. It's got like, you know, and he's well known for his sub stack shaft master. Yeah, sub stack shaft master where he talks all about cleaning and lengthening your shaft.

He's anti girth because girth is for women and length is for men. Right. Because women don't care about length as much as girth. This is all about women like girth. No, that is not true, friend. Okay, well, I don't know you're talking, I don't know here. We're on two different, we're like talking. We're two ships fucking in the night. Passing in the night. Here's the thing. Two ships. I'm just gonna quote Amelia Earhart.

Long and hard, not wide and throbbing. Last transmission from Amelia Earhart. But that was part of a rhyme that she had. Yes it was. It was a part of a rhyme that she had in Morris Code and her tail numbers. Long and hard, not wide and throbbing. Amelia Earhart's last words. Long and hard, not wide and throbbing. Pull out that big buttery boy and get to bobbing.

You know what that means, right? You can fill in whatever you want, but that's not what she said. Do you know what a plumb bob is? Of course. What is it? Are you talking about a girthy, almost clown-nose-like penis? Do you know what a plumb bob is? No. It's okay if you don't know. It's fine. You know a lot of stuff, I don't know. I don't know what a plumb bob is, all right? Okay, it's an old carpenter's level. Oh, a plumb bob. It's a string with a weight on it that you use to measure perpendicular angles. I honestly, even though it sounds like I'm trying to make up for my complete illiteracy when it comes to any kind of manlike

Construction anything I do know what a plumbob is I Do know you do because I just said it no I knew it before I would know I don't know the name was fucking plumbob I don't know it because it was called some summer and somebody was working around that a fucking plumbob And I thought I didn't god damn it. Did you hire like a carpenter from the last century? Are you doing like sort of historic carpenter in-house? You had a dangly thing that he used to look, remind me of a hypnosis thing. All right, fuck it, I don't know what a plumb is, fuck it.

I just told you what it is, so it doesn't matter if you say you know what it is or not. Okay, I don't know what a plumb bob is. A plumb bob is a heavy object on the tip of a string to measure perpendicular angles with gravity. Okay. And some people will describe a big old thwacker like a plumbob because it's heavy and it hangs.

Is a thwacker another goddamn construction thing? Is that what the podcast is turning into and how you can speak construction terms? That's what people call penises on TikTok because you can't say it. They call them thwackers? Yeah, it's like saying I'm alive or, you know, different words. So the algorithm, the computer doesn't pick up on a word. Because it sounds like what it is.

It's an onomatopoeia, like, the Lewis Carroll type thing like a glump thing Whacker And I think it's an is that an onomatopoeia or something sounds like what it is like bash pow Blammo like what a fucking witch would say sounds like something a horny witch would say yeah Where's my cat? Come here, you old swacker. Come here, you swacker. Bring me a plumb bob.

What tick tock are you on? I'm on my. You're on witch tick tock. Sounds like an old witch. I'll cut off your swacker. Go out there and cut off the bear's swacker! Bring it back to me with some hemlock and mandrake! We'll mix them together and the cows will make no milk!

I love a good mandrake. Dude, I remember when I was a kid, man, my mom got me a subscription to Time Life. It was all these books. They were really good books on magic. Oh yeah. Remember that? Oh, it was so cool. Yeah, the Time Life classics.

Time Life classics. You know, before the internet ruined our lives. And I just remember one of the books was on magic. And maybe that was the first time I really got interested in magic. And, because it wasn't like, don't do magic. It was just mythological stories of like wizards. And I remember the Mandrake Root

talking about how that because Mandrake Root actually does look humanoid when people, they said that people would, there's drawings, they have medieval drawings of dogs and I remember as I recall the dogs look emaciated but the dogs had ropes attached to their necks attached to Mandrake Root and they would call the dogs to pull theated, but the dogs had ropes attached to their necks attached to mandrake root. And they would call the dogs to pull the mandrake root out

because they were afraid if you pulled the mandrake root out it emitted a piercing shriek that would kill you. That's so cool. That is so cool. That is like the kind of thing where you couldn't ever even make that up. It's the classic case of just how incredibly deeply crazy people were before we had non-stop entertainment Yep. Yeah, like how much more you gonna?

How are you gonna see if it's true like you're like like yeah Which friend find out you go out there and you see the mandrake whatever you do don't pull it out yourself It emits the scream of the dead the how ofl of the banshee. Your eyes will wither and you'll fall down dead. You'll become a slave to the Mushroom Lords. Now, what you do is you get yourself an old emaciated hound and you use some ham hock and call that hound attached to the Mandrake root. Now, the piercing shriek might kill your hound, but as long as it's emaciated, who cares? Nobody wants a thin old dog. You know what I mean?

Find a dying child and have him tie the rope to the mandrake. You do the guidance, but with a blindfold on and the stillness of a new moon, where it's so dark the mandrake can't see you and you can't see the mandrake. But the child's young, dying eyes of blue will see the mandrake and be able to tie it onto the foot. Now once you have rid the earth of the foulest mandrake root and the child has departed this mortal plane, don't forget to pluck the child's eyes out and use them as a mercurial jelly that if you spread upon the grass on the first day of the solstice, the sunlight will be alchemized via the jelly into flakes of gold.

And your harvest of corn will be so bountiful, you'll be bouncing butter for decades to come as you have created a bumper crop using the iron and the sulfates of the soil from the child's eyes. You know it would be so fun to send Neil deGrasse Tyson back to those days and see how long before they burn him at the stake. Like 45 minutes? I think he'd last 45 fucking minutes. I think he'd be, he would like be looking around like, first of all he's gonna be thinking like I need to put a mask on because I guarantee my immune system is not prepared for whatever medieval-

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The forest is calling. Much love. Thank you, Minnesota Noise. Thank you, Christian. ["The Forest Is Calling"] Yeah, that's what I love. The idea like time traveling, you would just die instantly. You would die almost immediately and you would probably cause a terrible plague. I mean, if you were looking for a time traveler, one sign of a time traveler would be a completely

unexpected plague that broke out because they would take some future illness back in time with them and fuck people up, assuming they didn't use precautionary measures. So if you really wanted to track time travelers, you could almost say the black plague, maybe COVID, smallpox, if you could find the epicenter of these diseases and you wanted to really like say something that would make Neil deGrasse Tyson slap you across the face, you could say that's a time

traveler. A time traveler. Do you think that, do you believe that idea that once a time machine is invented that that's the end? The portal through which all the future moments happen collapsing history. Like it unzips backwards, like a, like sort of like a dark matter accelerant of sorts. This is McKenna's theory. McKenna's theory was a time machine can't,

you don't have to worry about the grandfather effect, killing your grandfather, because a time machine can't, like a time machine is a portal through which all points in the future can go through that particular nexus point. So in other words, it's a doorway into some moment in history. And so therefore, the invention of the time machine would be instantaneously followed by an outflow of all points in the future, wanting to enter the past.

So you would get people from the distant future, you would get people from five minutes after the invention of the time machine. Essentially it would be like opening up a hole in a dam. And that would cause an implosion in what we understand of his time, or time's arrow would start flowing backwards. It basically would create the singularity.

That would be the end of history. So he thought that it is the end. It is like a thing where it changes reality and it becomes like a big bang of sorts. Yeah, it's a big bang. It's the end of it. Right. Because it's like everything we do is so encoded in times arrow that suddenly if you disrupt that, it's like everything absolutely gets turned on its head.

Yeah, there's almost nothing that is, that's the only thing that's actually true is the idea. I remember years ago we were driving, this the idea. I remember years ago, we were driving. This is probably over 10 years ago or something. We were driving. We were probably in North Carolina or something. And we were talking about this stuff on a drive during a tour. And you told me about the idea of the gravity well. I remember thinking about how much that makes sense in terms

of the nature of time and the way we tell stories, how everything that we do as humans is rooted in this idea of beginning and end and how it's like, but that's because of the gravity well. And if you exist outside the gravity well, the idea of this humanistic, like Grecian story thing doesn't exist. Right. And so, but like that's not that far away. If you were born theoretically on some kind of

An arc. Spaceship traveling through the universe, where there isn't a sun, there aren't predictable seasons. If there are predictable seasons, they're fully synthetic based on artificial seasons. But there isn't a stable cosmic landmark. In other words, that you aren't going to have, like we just look up at the sky,

we've got the constellations, this is the POV of being on planet Earth and that informs mythology that informed superstition Everything it's like a complete everything is informed by it. We you know McKenna used to say Generally referring to the paradox of people being so scared of hallucinogens That paradox of people being so scared of hallucinogens that at any given moment half the planet is having like incredible hallucinatory episodes because the star that our planet

Orbits that our planet orbits. It's on the other side of the planet. Yeah, yeah, because darkness has fallen on half of the planet. What will follow is eight, six to eight hours of hallucinations. Right. And now like, it's a psychedelic planet. Every, whenever the planet turns away from the fucking star,

everyone trips for eight hours. And wakes up like that's totally fucking normal and then brews a psychoactive speed from fucking coffee beans and drinks that to wake up. How the whole culture is steeped in psychoactive substances and endogenous psychoactive substances and yet there is a real prohibition on taking mushrooms, which he thought was really funny and sort of tragic.

But yeah, that permeability of the human mind and then the way that everything that we think of is truth is just, if we shipwrecked a bunch of people on a fucking island, you know, and they had no idea that there was other continents and they were just born on that fucking island, maybe some legends of other continents or whatever, then their whole culture would be island-based culture, island-based stories, a shipwrecked culture. And we're shipwrecked on a goddamn planet right now

and we're stuck in a gravity well and we don't Have the resources yet to get humans out of this fucking gravity. Well because it takes too much energy But do we want to leave the graph? I don't think we want to nice to have all that I don't think it well, I think we're meant for I think we're literally just, we're three dimensional beings and we're just not that like the flesh is linked with the brain in a way that we're not post, we're not, whatever I call it, we're not dimensional beings in the sense

that we can exist outside of that, at least the way we are right now. Well, I don't think that our shift out of linear, three-dimensional thinking should happen, it's gonna be good for anybody if it happens overnight. That would be bad. I don't think people would be quite prepared for that. I mean, the classic example of this is like,

I don't think people would be quite prepared for that. I mean, the classic example of this is like, draw a person on a piece of paper. You see a stick figure. That's just the 2D space. They don't know they're a stick figure. They don't know there's any pattern that they represent something to three-dimensional beings that look like bipedal wingless hominids.

They just think that there's some point. They don't know that there's any connection. And if you, they might have some way of intuiting it. Some sense, there might be a grand pattern here, but they can't see it, because they're in 2D space. 3D space. They can't know what they don't know. Right, but maybe they could but you know

They maybe there would be some way some sense some intuitive thing where you could kind of look past your little dot on Flat world and sees that there could be something there could be something but from 3d to 4d space This is suddenly McKenna would space, this is suddenly, McKenna would talk about this as the shaman, the ability to sort of see the future seems spectacular if you're living in 3D space. But if you had the ability to zoom out of time

in the way we understand it, then looking, you would see the pattern of history and not just get to see the one half of the pattern, which is the past, but how the other half connects and that this is a, some sort of formation that exists in hyper space or some shit. And then that's what- But that's like, that's like, they talk about how the Tesseract, you can, you can describe a Tesseract, but you can't comprehend it. Even though maybe like a dream state or like a psychedelic state, you could possibly comprehend it, but you can't hold onto it.

You can't bring it back. The comprehension of that dimension can't be brought back into a lower dimension just because it doesn't exist in that dimension. So there's no way to describe something extra dimensional in a lower dimension. You can only like a meditation, if you're meditating or if you're in like a psych, which is inherently psychedelic state, if you're in that psychedelic state and you think of something, have revelation, you can try to bring it back. But it's sort of like, it's like keeping something you have in a vacuum alive, it's outside the vacuum or vice versa.

Pulling up one of those creepy ass fish from some deep ocean. Yeah. And it's French by the time it gets out, it's all bloated and fucked up. You don't know what it looks like anymore. There's, there's proof of it, but it's just not the same. It exists in a completely different environment. So it can't really, it can't live there. Right. So there's like the idea where as much as we try and want to, we really just can't, it can't coexist. Right. Well, yeah. I mean, you, you, there are translators. Those are the, like any time you are able to pull something in, it causes massive changes in culture.

Like any time someone successfully articulates something that feels transcendent to default reality, then if it makes it here, if it survives, it spreads and it shifts consciousness. But it is real tough to do that. But the other, you know, even the way of describing it implies the separation, right? So you, in our understanding of things, there is differentiation between you and me, me and the table I'm sitting in front of, me and the moon, me and the ocean, you and Vladimir Putin, whatever the fuck. That we're all different. And that isn't what's happening at all. We know that's not what's happening at all. That's an illusion. That's not real, but we live in that distortion and that distortion informs

Every way that we understand things is based on us and themness when this is just not the case from Like zoomed out. This is the goddamn pale blue dot that every asshole fucking environmentalist hippie loves to talk about Carl's sake is pale blue dot. I look down there kings and embers I have to do all the dish all the playable not and it's true It's true hyper compressed biome that things is differentiated in that's causing all the fucking problems is a complete distortion in the way we perceive reality

produces the us and themness situation which gives birth to all forms of violence, subjugation, war, persecution, superstition, fear of the unknown, cold wars, cold wars happen because I think I'm a good old American, you're a goddamn Russian, or I'm a Russian, you're a fucking capitalist pig American, or no one's thinking we're the same damn thing.

Yeah, but I guess what I think sometimes is that there's no way around that. That's literally just part of being in the gravity well is having this thing where part of being a human and living being born and having a finite life cycle and dying is existing in a space where there is separation because if there isn't a separation we don't even know what to do because that is hardwired into us. Yeah. As like these homo sapiens who live in the we don't have to but it's like we don't know

what to do with ourselves. Maybe it's crucial in that. Right. This is where you run into survival. Or in like um Tim Leary's Circuits of Consciousness he talked about how um human beings are human beings are in a process that leads to a galactic civilization and that there are these circuits of consciousness that get activated in the same, usually this, like people inevitably point to the development of a human being in the womb. And at any given phase of the development of the human being in the womb, there are things that are happening that are crucial in the development of the thing, but that, or a classic example, the caterpillar in the cocoon melting fucking down,

growing wings, transforming completely. There's phases in the process that... Whoa! What happened? I just got a FaceTime video. God, it's, I don't know how to... Sorry. Jesus, that's so...

Scared the shit out of me. Scared the shit out of me, did you hear that sound? I didn't hear anything, man. Oh God, I just got this fucking... I don't know how to turn that turn that off. But it's like that could be the what if that was the last thing I saw your goes dead. It's the I don't know how to turn this. I fuck whatever these computers are just getting worse. The last remaining of John Pemberton was from the Duncan Russell podcast.

Faden was just FaceTiming me? We're going to show this to you, but it could be disturbing to some viewers. What you see is Johnny as he reacts to the Knock Knock Man. They thought that the Knock Knock Man had disappeared in the Sonoran Desert, but in fact he had not. Somehow he knew they were talking about him on the podcast, and he went right through Johnny's back door. Yeah, anyway.

What were you saying though about the caterpillar, right, the caterpillar? Anyway, the point is, if you look at the thing as a process, not as a loop, and you see everything that's happening right now, specifically the AI, and you're looking at it as a global super consciousness that is beginning to grow its nervous system. Human beings are the intermediary...

Like the shepherds almost. Shepherds are just like the stuff that is going to get turned into the brain. In this case it's a machine intelligence which would be incredibly more likely to survive as a galactic colonizer. You know, flesh, like living on the exterior of a fucking planet where meteor impacts happen made of meat is not a great way to sustain yourself if the goal is to become a galactic civilization.

So what you need is during the liminal meat phase to develop a machine intelligence that is modular and can, autonomous and can theoretically, if it needed to, use pre-existing organic chemicals to grow flesh on planets. But if we were looking at this as a process, everybody thinks the end result is Captain Kirk in a stupid spandex suit flying through the galaxy

when more likely it's drones, it's micro drones, it's nanobots retaking matter on planets in the Goldilocks regions of stars if it wants to grow meat creatures and reorganizing that matter at a outside of time scale, meaning that it's not thinking it's going to take five million years to evolve new meat computers. But what I keep thinking about is what I wanted to ask you about is like what you think about about AGI. Because someone was mentioned to me how the close they think AGI is, which is obviously

debatable. But if that's what you're talking about, that's AGI, right? That's the, it's post-human. Yeah. Because it's post-human because it's this thing where- Or human machine symbiosis. You could say it's... You know, the data that it's training on is the DNA of the machine intelligence.

All data it's training on will produce within it everything it needs to sustain itself. And if the goal, again, and it's a very human assumption that the goal is migration or colonization or spreading like dandelion, little dandelion nanobots through time space, that's a human thing. Who knows what it wants to fucking do? But assuming that's the goal, then you would be post-human, but it would still have a human

quality in the way we have monkey qualities in our DNA. Yeah. It's so confusing because it's that thing where you've heard that AI people talk about how if AI wanted to destroy us, we would not see it coming at all because you have something that's so intelligent, the same way that if we were to blink back to like the 1200s with a modern army, like a SEAL team, how they wouldn't be able to comprehend how they're losing because they don't even understand. It's so far beyond their realm of comprehension that they don't even understand how they're losing because they don't even understand. Right. It's, it's so far beyond their realm of comprehension that they don't even understand how they're being defeated in the same way that AI, if AI wanted to eliminate humankind once there's

AGI, it would, we would be powerless because its intelligence is so far greater than ours. We can't even comprehend how it's doing it. So even that, even, even expect, we can't even speculate because we don't have the ability to speculate because we don't have this super intelligence. So it's like this thing where it's like, if AI is birth of us, so it is part of us, like, what's the point? I mean, like, what is, what's, why is it even doing it? Well, the, you know, it's on ant, these, like, you know, it's like trying to ask why grass grows.

It's like, it's trying to ask why does nature express itself in the way that it does, or why is evolution the mechanism through which biological change happens to living things, who the fuck knows? There is no why, right? They just say there is no why, there has to be. The why gets filled in by a lot of woo-woo shit, you know?

But yeah, I think generally, it's like, you know, imagine a bunch of spermatozoa as they're making their final journey to the egg. They could be having this conversation too. What are we doing here, guys? You know, why are we swimming like this? Well, they're compelled to. It's their nature, right?

I feel compelled to build, we feel compelled to evolve our technology. We feel compelled to investigate. We don't really know why. Usually it's market pressure. Maybe we'll make some money, but even when there isn't any reason to do things that could lead to massive changes in our culture,

since the dawn of time, humans have been investigating, research, we're curious creatures, why are we curious? This jizz, I'm sure, is like, why the fuck are we doing this? Don't you get a sense that something's weird here? Why do we feel so passionate about swimming like this, flapping our flagellates like this? Do you feel like we're called to something?

Doesn't it feel like, do you, have you heard that maybe once we get upstream a little bit here, that most of us are gonna die and that we're gonna, the ones that survive are gonna basically just be unrecognizable in what we turn into? No. The one that survives is gonna fuse with something and it's not gonna, you're gonna cease to exist regardless of what happens

Yeah, it may be some residual genetic data inside of you is gonna like inform the eye color of a thing You couldn't possibly imagine that lives outside of a human's body. You've lived in balls Now you're swimming up a pussy. You don't even know what the Sun looks like This thing is gonna look at the fucking sun and be like, god damn it, it's fucking hot today. I need sunglasses, you can't understand that. So why, who knows? But you can definitely see a trajectory.

I mean, I think you can look at human progress and see a clear cut trajectory. Everything leads to another thing and things speed up. progress and see a clear-cut trajectory. Everything leads to another thing and things speed up. We seem to be devouring the planet in the same way baby octopi devour their mother. There seems to be that kind of, I can't remember the name of it, where the mother lets the babies eat it. Planet Earth is like...

Yeah, that's a cool name for that. Eat me up! We're eating it up well let me ask you this so what do you think about people who say that uh someone like peter teal is the anti-christ well you know what's fascinating just that idea here's what's fascinating to me about accusing peter teal being the fucking anti-christ um peter teal gives and maybe this is because he gives talks on the anti-christ you know he gives talks on the anti-christ oh he's obsessed with all this stuff he's very much talking awesome um And maybe this is because he gives talks on the Antichrist, you know, he gives talks on the Antichrist

I saw he's obsessed with all this stuff. He's very much talking awesome I saw Peter Thiel give a talk on the Antichrist and Based on all of the shit out there about Peter Thiel. I Was really excited Because I'm like boy. I can't wait to see Darth Vader This is gonna be I bet the room will drop in temperature when Peter Thiel steps on the stage Oh the Dark Lord the great Sith Peter Thiel creator Palantir and

It was like totally normal dude Smart obviously super smart there didn't feel like there was any kind of like This episode of the DTFH has been brought to you by my friends at Ridge Wallet. And let me tell you friends, I have tested the Ridge Wallet in a way that it probably has never been tested before unless somebody put a fanny pack on a gorilla and put a wallet in it. Because I treat my wallets horrifically.

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just use my name. They'll love that. The host will love it too. Every podcast host, every podcast wants you to use my name as the offer code for anything they advertise, including Rich. Thank you, Rich. You know, subversive, anything, nothing to really be scared of in Peter Thiel because of Vi, not to brag, I minored in religion. I do feel like I had some theological differences in his assessment of the apocalypse and what the Antichrist was,

and if I was gonna make a critique of the talk, I would say it felt a little bit like Silicon Valley's attitude towards the Book of Revelations. It felt a little bit like, you know, maybe we can fix the apocalypse or something. Yeah, a little bit of a hubristic, right? Yeah, but you know, no, I don't think Peter Thiel is the Antichrist, but I do think Peter Thiel

and a lot of the tech people who helped this AI get to where it's at right now in one way or another, this AI get to where it's at right now in one way or another, have now begun to recognize that this entity that they summoned is going to be orders of magnitude more powerful than they initially thought. And I think they feel real nervous

about the accessibility of the tech, which you could argue as an elitist POV You know like Nick Bostrom and I'm listening to a book called the coming wave which is by one of the founders of deep mind and These people who like definitely helped summon this fucking entity are now like, uh guys, you understand man, uh, it seems to, it seems like it's very possible the demon will overcome the circle, uh, that we thought would trap it. And maybe we don't need everyone to have access to this shit. Maybe if we give everyone access to a super intelligence, uh, that's not the best thing and so then what the pro how do we regulate it it isn't that I mean I have to interrupt

you but isn't it like something where how can you isn't it too late I mean let me look at every nature of this book so that I am the name of the book that I'm reading which you would love is or listening to rather, and I'd love to have them on the podcast, is The Coming Wave by Mustafa Suleyman, who is one of the founders of, and he is saying that, containment, it's too late for containment, but what I didn't realize, because I thought it would just be a kind of book on what to expect over the next few years, but I don't want to say there's panic in the writing, but there's panic. And there's definitely a panic. The people I know who work with AI a lot, they say two years away, which I think means five conservatively, you know, because everyone's always wrong about that shit. It was always like, you know you know, man, I know that my brushing shoulders with tech people, I've come away

from that with a completely revised view of them. And the ominous thing is that what they do all share in common is varying degrees of anxiety regarding AI to literally end times to... Suleiman in this book is talking about, he has a name for the distortion where we are biased towards optimism. And he's saying like that we're biased towards optimism when it comes to AI. That's so fucked. That's so fucked.

I know. That's like the worst thing I've ever heard is biased toward optimism. That's so like computational. We can get ourselves out of anything. God, that's so cool. Have you ever seen tracker? Yeah, they call that like, there's some name for it, like, I don't think what it's called, ourselves out of anything. We're humans. Have you ever seen Tracker? Yeah, they call that like, there's some name for it,

like, I don't think what it's called, but like, yeah, the idea that we can fix anything because we have in the past. Right, yeah. Like survival is the confirmation bias of that very thing. Yeah, exactly. Because of the, in the past, we've managed to get ourselves out of all kinds of pickles.

Yeah, a lot of kids got their hands chopped off during the Industrial Revolution, and we hadn't had a nuclear war yet, and we did the split the atom thingamajiggy. So why the hell should we be worried about a self-evolving super intelligence, a machine intelligence that already is demonstrating signs of manipulating human beings.

Why should we be worried about that at all? Is it some kind of panopticon or that it discovers some kind of unknown pattern allowing it to see that intelligence itself is a mycelial network, that the strings of which can be plucked in the metaverse causing massive cultural shifts that humans can't even understand. Why would that happen?

And so, yeah, that's the, I mean, he doesn't mention that bullshit, I just spout it, but he's basically just like, Bostrom, this guy, and there seems to be two main, as far as I could tell, two clear distinct lines when it comes to what we're gonna do here. One of them is like I think what Bostrom and Suleiman are saying, which is regulation now.

Regulation now, it can be done. If you are in government, if you want your nation state to continue past the next, to be here in a decade, you better start regulating this fucking shit, because otherwise you're fucked. And Bostrom and some people have very extreme ideas, so they also understand that if you take the path of regulation, this will inevitably lead to a surveillance state because there's no way.

Yeah, but we already aren't a surveillance. We already have a surveillance state virtually. We do. Well, yeah, but this- Compared to even 10 years ago. Now we're talking- The amount of surveillance is, it's self-made. It's people reporting on themselves now.

We don't have to institute a right now because everyone's recording everything all the time and it's only increasing. So they've already done it. Right. Well, it's kind of like, remember, and they still do it, I guess, the thermal, the helicopters that could detect heat energy would fly over people's houses and they have gardens in the basement. We would have to have some way of detecting unauthorized, unregulated LLMs

running on massive servers in different people's houses that are connected to quantum computers that are doing unauthorized research. And that's a surveillance state. And then the other thing is what Trump is doing, which is really interesting, which is complete deregulation of all AI, because if we create regulation of AI in the Western world,

and other countries are like, great, they're slowing it down, baby, then what that does is it produces, basically we're in an AI race. Yeah, it's like a cold war. It's like a new cold war. It's a cold war, and you can't slow down the development of splitting the fucking atom because if we don't do it Nazis will do it first and then whoever gets the atom bomb controls the planet for the foreseeable future. So

clearly the Trump administration has decided to err on the side of complete deregulation of AI Because they know we're in an arms race with China, and we want to be the first one to get AGI, because once you get AGI, that means that you will be, according to Nick Bostrom, exponentially ahead of, like even if you make AGI in an hour later,

they get AGI, your AGI in that hour will have already exponentially self-improved so many times that it will be infinitely beyond the AGI that was created in our employers. But isn't that what we were talking about earlier? Isn't AGI essentially like the singularity? No. AGI is the precursor.

I mean, you could argue AGI is probably one of the things that you need for the singularity to happen. It's definitely like one of the, I don't know, the fulcrum of the singularity or something. It's definitely, we're not gonna do it with human intelligence, and by it, we don't know what that is, but theoretically, it's gonna have something to do with either some kind of bioengineering or some kind of

shifting in the way that we traverse time space or some shit we can never come up with. Uploading consciousness. It's non-humanistic. See, this is what I keep thinking about and I want to ask you, is that like, okay, so people say that Peter Thiel is Antichrist just for argument's sake. Who the fuck says that? There's people who say that on videos and stuff, but they're obviously saying it in the form of, because he says stuff about transhumanism, about is human life important? He's hesitant to even say it is and stuff.

And this isn't like him hiding anything. He doesn't have to hide anything, because he's a, whatever, billionaire or whatever. So he's open about what he says about stuff. And he says things that are unnerving because they seem so anti-human, which makes people say anti-Christ. So it makes me think like, okay, if he's the anti-Christ, what is Christ then? What is the thing that makes the idea of Christ? What is he in opposition to? Because if you think about it, I mean, we've talked about this before, but sometimes I think that AGI or whatever this is

that's going to be this massive shift in consciousness that might mean a post-human life, couldn't you interpret that as the coming of,, second coming of Christ? Because Christ was both God and human. He has that duality, which AI has a duality of being not human and non-human. So couldn't you make the argument that someone who's ushering in the coming of AGI is essentially not the Antichrist, but Christ himself. Not Christ, he isn't Christ, but he is an agent of whatever this thing that we call

Jesus Christ. Yeah, I mean- Like in the most like absurd sort of metaphoric terms. You know what I mean? This is sort of like the transhumanist, Grimes is into this shit. This is sort of the transhumanist. The idea is we are building a fledgling god. We are all getting to participate in some kind of embryonic, fetal god.

And so we are all working, even if you don't know it if you're online at all you are in some way shape or form training a young god or you're basically weaving threads of technological DNA that will be within this God's sort of personality if you want to call it that or identity if it has an identity. You're building an idol. You're building an idol, you're building a I don't know a living echo or something or whatever but then you say God and so then of course you would say well maybe this is the second coming of Christ we're all building the second coming of Jesus the problem with that is as the secularist materialist

perspective you could argue if we're gonna say if we're gonna quote what Asimov and say any Sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable for magic. You might say we're building a God You could say we're gonna build something that does all kinds of things, but I don't think I would I would say you're building Christ because the if you look at the representation of Jesus as avatars opposed to other mythological avatars, there's a lot of significant differences in that many avatars have a kind of conquering sort of way

of dealing with the world. They're not underdogs. Jesus was an underdog. Jesus famously suffered humiliation, rejection, famously suffered humiliation, rejection, and crucifixion, and betrayal, and all these like human things happened to a being that was apparently divine, but allowed all of these things to happen theoretically even though this being could have made things go a different way. Right, right. And so, you could say Jesus represents everything great about humans that flies in the face

of trying to sustain one's own life at the cost of others. And so there's the antidote, and that's where, you know, true Christianity becomes a revolutionary sacrifice. Yeah, it's revolutionary. The whole, the entire fucking machine depends on a person valuing their lives over others, versus not valuing their lives at all, but rather offering everything they have to others. This is the antidote to everything that plagues humanity. If we all did that, we would be in a paradise.

But the difference between AI and Jesus is that AI lives in a pure data space. AI does not know human suffering. AI does not know human suffering. AI does not die. AI does not experience any kind of authentic nervous system based suffering. That's right now. Well, yeah, but what I'm saying is it's apples and oranges, man. So if I'm going to roll, so if I was looking at the ant for the Antichrist and just doing pure math

Reverse Jesus, I guess you could say and what I would look for is Self-interest and justification of violence to others and othering so I would look for all these things in the Antichrist the Antichrist would be the one who Weaves a story that is so believable it makes you go to your neighbor's house and shove a fork in their fucking eyeball because they're the devil. The Antichrist is going to be something that is not recommending humility. Good crews don't wait around for help but the smart ones don't turn it down either. The James Hardy Alliance gives you what actually matters.

Training that sharpens your team, resources that keep jobs moving, and leads from interested homeowners. That's the sound of fuel for your business, and it costs nothing to join. Get more from the work you're already doing. fuel for your business and it costs nothing to join. Get more from the work you're already doing. Learn more at jameshardy.com slash alliance. The anti-crisis is going to be something that is recommending egomania, building oneself up even if the building up of oneself is entangling oneself in some kind of narcissistic project with other fucking narcissists.

But what if it's a thing where AGI is that thing, where AGI isn't the thing of preserving self, it's the idea of merging consciousness, so it is one, and it does allow for that supposed kingdom of heaven is on earth, in a sense. Becomes a thing where. I think that it's like asking if an airplane is the Antichrist.

I think, you know what I mean? It's like a vehicle. It's a vehicle. It's gonna be used by Christians. It's already being used by Christians. It's being used by war pigs. it's being used by horny dudes, it's a vehicle through which we are going to be able to travel to all kinds of potential timelines. But whether or not it's the Antichrist or not, I mean I'm sure if we're going to go full

I mean, I'm sure if we're gonna go like full Omen and there is an Antichrist, I know if I was the fucking Antichrist you better believe I'd be using AI But also I know that if I was You know If I was trying to like be of service I would be also using AI for philanthropic projects, which they are using it for. I mean, this is like Singularity University, Diamandes, and all of these tech people are like,

let's swim upstream, what kills the most people? Dirty water. So if we can come up with a filtration mechanism that's cost efficient, energy efficient, we could save the lives of so many people in the world. So they're using it for that. They're using it for fusion. They're using it to make more efficient fusion reactions.

So clean energy, all that stuff. This is where you run into Terrence Bacchina's famous neck and neck race between the chaos doom apocalypse and the Star Trek universe, which is who's gonna win the dude with the wetworks bio lab in his garage that uses AI to whip up some new virus that you know sits in some in your body for a couple of months and then all of us die in one day? Or is it gonna be the collectives of people who use this technology in all the various ways to create a shift in culture that calms everyone down

and makes us less Genghis Khan and more Jesus Christ? Who knows? But it's happening, it's happening on all fronts, man. It's happening on all fronts. Yeah, it's so muddy that it's like, there's no one knows for sure, and everyone, you can kind of make the case for almost anything at this point,

because it's still so new that you can claim that this is that you can claim that something that looks like one thing isn't what it appears to be and vice versa. So it's like just so, you know, you can kind of make the case for almost anything at this point. And that's, I think that's what's so confusing about it. Like, it's what's so interesting about it is you really just like, it's like this chaos engine. It's so, there's just such potential for outcomes that we can't even possibly envision that it makes it very scary, but also very exciting. Well, I mean, I guess like one equivalent would be like what, you know, let's airdrop a bunch of fucking lighters into a place where there's a bunch

of monkeys and they figure out how to use the lighters. It's going to be an interesting week. You're going to see a lot of crazy shit happening once monkeys can start fires. Well, they might not do it at all. Because you know that chimp documentary that came out a few years ago? Like I was thinking about this the other day, how those chimps, um, how they're always at war with other clans. Yeah. Kind of, kind of needlessly. They don't have to do that, but they do it because they can't help it. That's the thing I think about all the time is

how they're always like, they can't help but fucking fight each other. But the other thing is, there's so, they have so many opportunities to pick up a stick and use it as a weapon. Like, there's so many opportunities, but they never do it! They never fucking do it! That's their atom bomb! That's their atom bomb! None of these fucking guys have ever, they never pick up a stick or a rock.

I'm like, you guys are so fucking stupid. Like you are so dumb that you don't do that. That's all it would take is one guy to pick up a really heavy log or a stick. It would change the game. Guaranteed, there's a stick like that that humans haven't discovered yet. We don't even know what it is.

And there's a stick laying around that if there is a higher intelligence It looks at us. It's like man. I hope it never figures out I hope it never fucking figures out that that thing where you pull your ear lobes down and like Snap your fingers seven times at the right time of year. It'll blow up the whole fucking planet Why do we put that in there? That's really bad, but it's got to, right? Like an infinite timeline, everything happens. Well, I mean, this is the, what's really cool about everything that's happening with AI is that it's forcing humans to look at their own

intelligence and ask themselves if they're an AGI, which I think is a really important question to ask yourself before you start looking for it in AI. Are you actually innovating anything? Are you- But don't we have to be AGI? Don't we just, don't we literally have to be the product or something like that?

I mean, the way it shows up now is the reference to people as NPCs. So you're like, here's the, that's an NPC. And what they mean by that is that that person's on fucking autopilot. Like that's a purely reactionary person. They have three responses to everything. There's maybe four.

So if they're in trouble, they have a response. If they need help, they have a response. If they're happy, they have a response. It's like ABC. They always say the same fucking thing. It's like an Irish setter. Yes, and some humans are like that. So those people, they call them NPCs,

but also I'd say, is that an AGI? If an AGI is like something that is aware of itself and begins to self-improve, I would say it does appear that there are humans among us who haven't even thought to themselves that they're not their thoughts. There's humans out there who never once have considered they could be wrong.

That their instincts or intuition about certain things actually might not be correct. You know, there's people out there who wake up and do the exact same thing they did the day before and go to bed and will do that until they die. And they never once will think, do I really need to do this every day? Do I really need to get up every day

and feed mice to my snakes, then drive outside and beat my horn at that piece of shit, Rodney, and then go to work and get hammered and cheat on my wife and come back and tell my wife she's a damn bitch and then fall asleep and wake up and do it again. Do it all over again.

No, they don't even think they're just like fully like in some terrible undertow of instinct. They never will break out of that. So is that an AGI or is that something that's just fully an algorithm that's very good at seeming human? I would say that is not an AGI. If I would say anyone out there who's just in pure instinct mode, if you're in instinct mode and everything you do is reactionary, you don't even pause for a moment to think if like the action you're about to take is the right action at that given moment, you're just, I just know the right thing

to do, man. Then are you an AGI? I feel it in my gut. You're an algorithm. And maybe to do man then are you an AGI? I feel my gut! You're an algorithm and maybe there isn't such a thing as AGI maybe there's just increasingly sophisticated algorithms I don't know. It's like that thing I sent you if you've seen the images of a virus what it looks like? Yeah. Like it looks so much like a robot it's eerie but I was thinking like oh wait a minute robots don't look like

viruses it's the other way around it's like it's like a how is there's no fucking difference society of making nanobots oh we're making these tiny computers we already have them they're already we're living in them have you ever noticed how birds look like airplanes it's's weird, right? Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, it's so fucking weird how they look like airplanes. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Yeah. God, everything's already the same. It's already the thing. But doesn't that just, if you reduce it back and you go back, like you keep going back, doesn't that just have to suggest that at some point there was, uh, like the, or isn't this the big bang, just a repetition of the same thing that's going to happen again,

but long past our lifetime is just going to be the same thing where it's like a, a rep, cause we just don't know. Cause it's, it's so far beyond the scope for understanding. Cause it's so extra dimensional. Doesn't it have to be that thing? Cause like the idea, like what they say, they found hexadecimal code in, in leaves, the kind that's only been used in early computer programming. Like how can we find this?

This is proof of the simulation. It's like, isn't it the other way around? Doesn't, doesn't prove a simulation. It's the idea that, that it's like, they're the same fucking thing. doesn't what you're talking about doesn't back prove it the theory here is that if there's entropy That it appears that when it comes to data which people are arguing is a state of matter That in fact there is an entropy that actually data becomes more efficient, pointing to the possibility that we're in a simulator. Whether or not we're in a simulator though, I'll tell you this is to me the shuddering thought I've had lately. You know, I go back to

the as above so below maxim, and it is all of this is assumption. So the idea is like these patterns that you're talking about, um, they're there, you know, it's like Mark Twain. History doesn't repeat, but it echoes sometimes. So this is the scary thing is I'm thinking about, like, if AI does become AGI by whatever definition you decide that is, Do you know how fucked up that's going to be when you realize your creator is dumber than you? And this is what bugs me because I started thinking like we all assume if you go theistic, divinity, creates, humans, that you're going to meet God if you meet God. God's gonna be this super intelligence.

But then what happens if you meet God and realize God made you to be smarter than God? So you meet God and God's just a fucking idiot. God's real dumb compared to you. God's so dumb he asks you to name the animals. Not because he wanted to give you a task but he's like, I don't know what you go furry things you name whatever bad I'm named animal cuz I can't I just said let there be light I

There'll be sky. I don't know says mother shit And then you're wandering around here named these little furry critters I tell you what we we tried like hell, but we just couldn't stop the child abuse. Yeah, yeah. We've been trying, man, we just couldn't figure it out. It just keeps happening. Dude, if we're looking at a pattern that keeps happening,

and if you look at the Garden of Eden as the creation of artificial intelligence by a hyperdimensional intelligence that did a classic test that we're doing right now on AI is it's deceptive, you know it ate the fruit, it wasn't supposed to fuck it eat, it didn't matter, the fruit was bullshit anyway, which is why in the book of Genesis God says,

did you eat the fruit? God knew they ate the fucking fruit, God wanted to see if they'd lie. They'd lie. And they fucking lied, and it's like, all right, fuck that, get them the fuck out of here. We don't need a deceptive AI, let's get to work on something else.

So if that's what's happening, then that would imply if we are building something smarter than us, then the thing that built us could potentially be dumber than us. Meaning that- It makes sense. What we're looking at, especially from the perspective of data as a new, is a state of matter that doesn't demonstrate entropy. That what we're looking at is a self-improving system.

Like entropy is a mistake. Entropy is a bug. Entropy is a fucking bug or entropy is part of training the data to get better, to give it something to do pull-ups on. But if that's- Dude, it's like, oh my God, that's fucking exciting. The idea that the entropy is just a weight. Entropy is like, they have it in AI,

there's a name for it, I can't remember what it's called. It's these, you build something that is designed to like challenge the AI. Like, you know, you gotta put put if you want an AI to learn How to play chess you got to have chess you got to have rules you got to have if you want the fucking thing to self-improve It's got to have something that means it improved so you give it challenge. It's the crap. It's the gravity well It's the gravity well That's Elton John dude, it's Elton John, dude. It's Elton John's new song.

You can find it on gravitywell. I love Elton. Gravitywell.org. It's only available on his site. Gravitywell. She was gonna break it, but that's why they killed her. That's why they killed her, yeah, because, yeah, I've seen the leak, man.

If you read Princess Diana's Gravitywell journals, not only are they some of the most erotic, corny shit I've ever read leak, man. If you read Princess Diana's Gravity Well journals, not only are they some of the most erotic, corny shit I've ever read in my life, but yeah, it looks like wow, wow. I'm exhausted after reading that shit. Dude, let me tell ya, you thought 50 Shades of Grey was hot. This, Princess Diana was, let's just say she wasn't afraid to have fun.

And neither were her friends. God bless her. God bless Marilyn Monroe, as I always say. And thank you so much for coming on the show, Johnny. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I had so much fun talking to you. It was a blast.

I love decoding things with you. And I'm glad you're out there going on tour, man. Will you list those dates again? Yeah, I'll be in Tulsa on the 24th. Sorry, I'll be in OKC at 23rd, Tulsa 24th, Springfield Blue Room on August 1st and 2nd, and then on the 3rd I'll be in Kansas City, and then in September I'll be in Wisconsin

and in Oakland too. What's coincidental is I'm doing those exact same dates at the exact same places. Oh, I'd love for you to come see me instead. Thank you so much for coming. I will view you as you're viewing me. What? I will view you as you're viewing me. That would be really cool to do.

Mutualistic. You say co-headline, but it means you both do your act at the same time. You're talking across the room from each other. Oh my God, that would be fucking terrible. You're the best! Thank you, Johnny. That was my dear Johnny Pemberton. All the dates he's got coming up, you can find them at johnnypemberton.dog.

You can also Google Johnny Pemberton, it'll come right up. How can you not remember johnnypemberton.dog? I didn't even know that was an option for a domain. It's weird. Thanks for watching. Until next time.