Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 707: Daniel Noah

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

Daniel Noah, co-founder of SpectreVision (the studio that produced Mandy and Color Out of Space) and paranormal advocate, joins the DTFH! You can learn more about SpectreVision and see all of their releases on their site, SpectreVision.com! Australia family, Duncan is on tour in you right now! His next shows are in Melbourne at the Thornbury Theatre, August 23! Click to get tickets for his shows in Melbourne and his upcoming shows in Perth! Thank you, and we love you!! This episode is brought to you by: Minnesota Nice Ethnobotanicals wants to help you escape the matrix of stress and reconnect with the earth’s ancient wisdom—go to mn-nice-ethnobotanicals.com/duncan and use code DUNCAN20 for 20% off your first order of Amanita Muscaria Capsules! This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/duncan and get on your way to being your best self.

This episode of the DTFH is amazing. This is why I love podcasting, and I give this five sterling stars of glory. Daniel Noah is the co-founder of Spector Vision. Spector Vision has created some of the coolest movies out there, including Mandy, the color out of space, and he's brilliant. He's a producer, but not just that. He's an advocate, and he's an advocate for something that I love. People have experienced the paranormal.

Daniel started off as a skeptic like so many people and had a series of experiences that led him to rethink his entire way of understanding reality, as many people think reality is. Ghost encounters, supernatural encounters, began to realize that, you know, maybe he was as weird as this might sound clairvoyant. And instead of hiding that, like so many people do, not everyone jumps on TikTok and starts channeling shit or slangles their pendulum around for likes. Some people feel legitimately uncomfortable with the fact that they've encountered or experienced things that don't fit in to the modernist paradigm.

Daniel is not one of those people. And this entire conversation revolves, not just around his own personal experiences, but around this, seemingly growing number of people who are reporting encounters with the unknown. He's also the director of Spector Vision Radio. So if conversations like the one you're about to hear or conversations you like, you should check that out.

Fifty shows dedicated to the subject. And he's got a comic book series coming out from Oni Press called High Strangeness. All the links you need to find Daniel Spector Vision or Specter, vision radio will be down below, but don't leave just yet. Stay tuned. Get ready. If you're scared of the unknown, get out your crucifixes. If you love hearing stories about ghosts and encountering entities, then take your clothes off and coat yourself in whatever you coat yourself in when you're about to summon spirits. Do or don't do any of that. Maybe you're driving. You don't to pull over and coat yourself in bull semen, which I am covered in right now. It helps me think.

Everyone please welcome to the DTFH, Daniel Noah. Daniel, welcome to the DTFH. Good to finally have you on the show. For folks who might not be familiar with you, they're definitely familiar with your company, Spectre Vision. You guys have made some of my favorite horror movies. including Color Out of Space, Mandy, specifically in love with that film, and a multitude of great, scary horror movies. And, you know, just to get going, because I know there's a ton to talk about, and I know you guys are doing something that we'll get to, which is, if you ask me, like, cutting edge, groundbreaking,

and it's what's happening everywhere. I want to talk about that. But before you go in with that, I wanted to ask how you ended up dedicating your life to making scary shit for us to watch and get freaked out by. So I was, I became obsessed with Tales of the Paranormal from a really, really young age. I come from a broken home, as so many do, who were born in the 70s. Do you remember the movie Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice? Yeah, sure. Yeah, so that was my family.

So I grew up in a household like that only for the first few years. And so it was moving around a lot and they're kind of people coming and going. Daniel, let me stop you. Here's the choice you have to make. Okay. Your fan is going to mess up your voice. fucking, let me kill it. I'm sorry, man.

I'm so sorry. Sorry. I'm going to roast you. I'm sorry. It was us. It was a compressor that Josh didn't know was on. It was like fucking everything up.

Okay. Let's do it again. Okay. Daniel. Welcome to the DTFH. My apologies. We just went through a technological mercury and retrograde

hell trail. doesn't it just seem like mercury is always in retrograde when is it not in retrograde i know mercury is an asshole and it definitely is real i of all those things i believe that man i do believe do you believe in mercury and retrograde because i really believe it i believe in everything you do believe in everything i mean and you know for someone making some of my favorite horror movies

one of the co-founders of Specter Vision founder is that the right word co-founder you made Mandy you made color out of space lots of other great movies and there's something really great to hear that the person

making your favorite hard movies actually believes in the paranormal yeah I do yeah I mean it well it It's, as I like to say, it's not a matter of belief. It doesn't matter what I believe.

It's real. You know, I used to be, I was a really, really hardcore skeptic. And my relationship to tales of the paranormal was entirely through the lens of their value as literature. And I still feel all those things. I think that tales of horror give us an opportunity to kind of practice confronting difficult things. you know, metaphorically, you know, loss, trauma, cancer, you know, whatever you're afraid of, you can confront it in the form of Freddie Kruger or, you know, or whatever. But I didn't believe in any of it, and in fact, I maybe was a little bit snooty about it.

I thought that people who believed that stuff were kind of weak-willed and, you know, that it was just kind of succumbing to a very basic kind of wish fulfillment. So when we started Spectre Vision in about 2012, you know, when you have a horror company, you start getting invited to events that are staged at haunted locations, right? Because, you know, it's fun. So I suddenly found myself touring some of the most haunted places in America. And in 2015, we were at the Stanley Film Festival in Estes Park, Colorado, which is when you check in, they tell you. I think they claim it's the most haunted structure in the world or something like that. It is famously the hotel that inspired Stephen King to write The Shining.

Okay, shit. He got in there one night with his wife, like, off-season, and I'm not sure if you had an experience or what, but it led to the inspiration for the Shining. So, you know, we did the festival, and the last night that we were there, you know how it is at festivals. Like, there's this group of people that you only see at festivals. They're like your festival friends. So a bunch of us stayed an extra night

and we congregated in a room in the hotel and somebody had a Ouija board. Now, I regarded this as just, you know, kind of like silly child's play. And I was annoyed with it. So we did this Ouija board and four people got on and, you know, nothing was happening

and then another four people got on and nothing was happening. I like to imagine that somewhere, Nearby, a person's being dismembered by a chainsaw while you talk. You know, you are not going to reveal everything about Spectrevision, but just somewhere a few feet away. There's someone whose last moments are listening to a podcast while being dismembered by Elijah Wood. He's over there covered in plastic. The, yeah, the background limiter is drowning out only his, his screams.

Go ahead, no, we're not, listen, we're going to get what we get today. Mercury's in retrograde. Listen, Fred, if you were looking for some kind of pristine audio, Beatles level, recorded in some London studio, it's not going to happen today. Mercury's in retrograde, and if we keep trying to fix the audio, which I have a feeling you're like me, we will do that for hours. We will just do it until the sun goes down. We're not going to get a podcast. So please continue. All right. Okay, we're Stanley Hotel. What, honestly, as a skeptic, you're probably like, all right, I guess, what are we having a sleepover?

That's exactly right, yeah. So we're trying different combinations of people, and then I'm one of the people that gets on, which I think, you know, I later understood as significant. I didn't understand at the time. get on the the the the the the the the the the the planchette starts flying around the board like it it it defied all reason and and frankly the laws of physics i've never other people's fingers are on it though yeah but but you can see that everyone is they're kind of floating their fingers off very careful to make sure that they're not unconsciously moving i fucking hate wija boards and that thing you just described is my why because it's like dude i know i know this can't be real and then the jerky weird have you heard oh yeah and that weird like it's it's like a a signal coming in and out a little bit it's but the intentionality behind it is i just don't i don't like i that is a very creepy moment

and anyone who's like had success with the Ouija board has had to contend with dealing with whatever that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This drain saw is making me nuts. Is it, I'm, should we just keep going? We just got to deal with it, man. At this point, we got to, listen, I've been doing this long enough to know when the podcast gods decide to sow chaos in a podcast. You could go into a her medically sealed chamber at this point. you could go into a deep underground military bunker where they keep the telepathic gray aliens to keep their teleepathy from affecting the scientists and you will get a leaf blower something will come we just got to do it man i just know there's no escape from the chaos when it comes it comes and usually it means a good podcast it's gonna happen all right all right all right i'm in as long as you as long as you're feeling okay about it then i'm feeling okay all right so you know that like that stuttery staccato thing that you're describing yeah on the it

was not like that it was it was intended it was extremely deliberate and forceful and it was this thing was moving with like incredible precision and force and and it in and i could feel it like pulling away from me right in in ways that no one person could possibly have controlled this thing um even then of course i'm rationalizing and i'm going um no there's a helicopter um no i let me stop you because i think it's important because of the topic is the reality the paranormal. You know what? You're making a very, very good point, actually. And I just want to point something out. I did say before we started recording that I went through phases of what you're experiencing right now and what you're going to experience because you're running

a podcast company. So you're going to go through this. And you know what? I feel honored that I get to explain this to you. I went through phases like a phase of grief. And I remember in the beginning thinking like there's no way that every time I start. podcasting, a leaf blower starts, a weed eater, some kind of gardening equipment, chainsaw. I've had that. It's got to be confirmation, but it's got to be in my mind. I explained this to you before. And then I just got used to it and realized if I start a podcast, except for now that I've moved to a podcast studio, not like just the ambient background noise. We live in a noisy world.

you could be experiencing the most pristine silence in your podcast studio at your house just perfect meditative silence hit record the neighbor decides to start drumming to the point where I have accepted it as a good sign because when the interference patterns show up Usually, I mean, this is my woo-woo idea.

It's something in the podcast. It's trying to diffuse, distract, to stop it from happening. And now I'm like, no, fuck you. I'll do this shit. I don't care if Niagara Falls erupts next to you. If suddenly just an unknown waterfall appears, the rushing of water, people screaming, we carry on Mr. Noah. Okay.

All right. Okay. That was a beautiful St. Christman's Day speech. All right. So this thing is flying around. But even then, Duncan, I'm thinking, like, maybe we're unconsciously moving this. The planchette then started to spin in a circle, which is impossible to do, you know, even with your fingers. You can't do it.

Even if you practiced that, you couldn't. Like, if you wanted to shoot that scene for a movie, you're like, okay, guys, we're going to need you in a series. subtle way to to choreograph the spinning of the planchette in a circle together so we're you're going to have to practice this you'd have to practice it for a few months to pull that off yeah exactly yeah exactly yeah um so uh we're we're in communication with um a little girl named eva who explains that she drowned in a lake nearby that her mother let her drown in the lake and this was an interaction that felt like it went on for about 20 minutes. I think later we realized it had been several hours,

which is something that happens when these experiences take place. At the end of it, we said, is there anything that you'd like us to do? And the answer was the numbers 3, 2, 4. And then she was gone. And we realized that 3, 2, 4 was a room number in the hotel. Oh, God. Damn it.

Yeah. So it's now like 2.30 in the morning. And so there were only a few of us left. A lot of people left the room. They were freaked out. They thought that someone was playing a prank. And so we went up to room 3, 2, 4. And as we ascended the staircase, there was a couple standing there.

And they were having a complete meltdown. And they were incoherent. Finally, they were able to articulate that they had just seen A ghost described a figure of a little girl standing in front of room 324. Okay, now, you could say, well, the hotel planned this. Those people were actors. You know, it's good for them to propagate the idea that the hotel is haunted. Sure.

Okay. I was titillated by this because there was also a feeling in the room that is very hard to explain a kind of electrical charge just a cellular kind of thing I know what you're talking about

yeah so but even then I managed to kind of lock this thing away in a cabinet and not really think about it too much about six months later we were guests on the Queen Mary which is because at that time we were developing a film about the Queen Mary

and so the Queen Mary is also purportedly extraordinarily haunted I'm not going to walk you through the whole thing but just to say I know about the Queen Mary I think a lot of people do yeah it's it's very well-known they do publicize it

had a second experience there which was even more extreme terrifying and walked away this time with evidence photographs, recordings. I realized something that night, which I realized a couple of things. One, I realized that both of these incidents, I'd been with other people, and all of us had seen and heard the same things, but I was experiencing them in another way that was not

felt by the people that I was with, and it's hard to explain it, but it was almost an emotional overwhelm. Okay, stop there. I'm going against everything I just said, here's what's happening. Wherever you're at as loud as fuck. And your echo cancellation is doing an incredible job

at cutting out what sounds like a lumber mill being raided by ice. It sounds like you're at a lumber mill that ice is raiding. What happened was, I got really excited because I thought they were done and then I was like, I'm going to go outside.

where I'm comfortable. So should I just go back inside? Because this is too good to waste, dude. I'm getting creeped out here, and everyone's going to be like, wow, Jesus. If we're going to do a good ghost story, it's not going to happen.

Okay. Wherever that is. So let's relocate. And then... I'm good on time if you are. Are you good on time, Josh? Okay, we're good. Got that chainsaw out there.

Get that thing out of here. It's a dark totem. Okay, let's roll. Okay, believable. Yeah, okay. All right. All right. Okay.

You got me? Yeah. We're going. Is this the worst? This is, are you kidding? This is awesome. It's like a,

there is a narrative unfolding. If people wanted Larry King, they go to Larry, they wouldn't be on the DGFH. I'll promise you that, Daniel. Inside the actor's studio. You're not getting it here. I'm also,

I can't help it because I am a filmmaker. I got to get the light right. This was not going to light was kind of fucked up. All right. That's a nice soft light, right? Sure. Yeah, okay. Sure.

That means no. I can't tell. I can't tell. Okay. I can't tell because it's coming through the internet. I don't know what you, because whatever the final thing is, whatever you're seeing on your screen, if it looks good, that's what it'll look like. It'll be good.

So continue, please. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. So, um.

Oh Yes Hold on There's a wild dog In the studio Get that fucking thing out of here Josh Fuck!

There's a stray Oh you know what I had another idea too Dougie I'm gonna just turn this fucking guy On There you go So we have a backup

Great Just in case All right Okay All right So Here's what apparently Some entity

Doesn't want me to say It's what I came to understand, I came to understand a few things. One was that the intensity of my skepticism was in direct proportion to the sensitivity that I was actually possessed and that actually this stuff had been happening to me my whole life. And it was almost like the end of the sixth sense. Going back and replaying a tape and seeing all these things that I had, it seemed so

obvious that it was almost laughable. Things like knowing often who was calling when the phone rang when I was a kid. You know, this is before a call waiting. Having a saying good night to my grandmother in my head when I was in my house and she was in her house. And just often knowing how people were feeling despite whatever masks they were wearing. And I had walked around in my life calling that empathy, which it is. But there's a certain point in which empathy kind of crosses a line into something else. And I really, I think a lot of the language that we use for this stuff is a little thorny because it sounds very self-aggrandizing.

And for someone like me who I'm a producer, I'm very comfortable being behind the scenes, I always am a little, I feel a little funny about saying, you know, know that why i think that i have some clairvoyant abilities and because it's you know the the the terror is that people will say well you're just looking for attention or you know you're you're delusional crazy you're a delusional crazy come on that's just not real you know all the stuff any people who have this thing which i would call a burden of most people you meet who do have to I mean, I think you could argue it's a form of neurodivergence that because it doesn't fit into the mainstream's view of how the universe works. It can't be diagnosed because to diagnose it is to ruin your reputation as psychiatrists, psychologists.

So this is a kind of problem that people have been having for a long time and even more hidden than a lot of like, you know, forms of neurodivor. divergence that people contend with you know what i mean like you can you you will be probably more accepted if you tell someone you're bipolar you know people are like god i'm sorry i you know i i am too or i know someone who is i know how hard that is yeah then if you tell someone what you just said people people just will shut you down and they don't want to hear it absolutely they don't they don't and i and for years i was closeted you know for lack of a better word you know and i you know i did kind of you know i told a few people but by the way i should also say that what once the my awareness was opened up it this it didn't stop it was just absolutely

constant and you know that something after the queen mary something happened in my home my wife is sensitive like me and so's my daughter um and i think like we all started kind of wrapping our heads around this at the same time but you bring a little friend home with you from the queen mary possibly that's that's the problem you guys that's the problem you guys See, this is the problem because it's like, I don't know if people get, what do they call them, hitchhikers. I don't know if people get hitchhikers because they're more sensitive or if it's because they're more sensitive, they are aware that the thing is in their house. So I'm, so what I think, you know, for the, for the efficacy of this conversation, I've spent the last 10 years aggressively. investigating just in my own mind, in my own body and soul, these questions.

So I think one of the things that's really hard about this stuff is, for all the reasons that we just discussed, it's very difficult to talk about these things as fluidly and openly as one would talk about the sciences. There's always this sort of stigma. So I've made a social contract with myself that I'm going to ignore those feelings. And I'm just going to speak about this as though I'm speaking about physics or, I'm going to just speak about the things that I believe or know to be true. I'm going to just state them plainly. Part of the problem with this is that a lot of it is so outlandish.

And this is what John Keel and Jacques Valet are often, we're often getting at is this trickstery element. You know, in many ways, it feels like we are being punked. And I think we are, by the way. I think that there is a great, there's an element of humor to a lot of the paranormal. the tricks that it plays like we what we just went through you know with the constant problems with the sound and everything it is it is low-key energy it's chaos energy it's not absolutely necessarily i mean punk is is punk is benevolent in a certain way but also it's like you know there's a prankster element to it that i maybe a better way to put it is uh it doesn't

seem to adhere to social norms when it comes to uh etiquette of pranks you know it it's quite often inconvenient and silly but that can be really disconcerting for i i have always although i get scared still when things are happening there's just a net i've never felt unsafe these are two different things and you know what i've come to understand is that i think that it's your energy is the energy that is that you attract and so if i think if you're someone who is coming from a place that's pure and good, you're not at risk of a hitchhiker following you and fucking, you're with your life.

You know, is, you know, is a little twinkle in your eye when you said that. So what I, so, so, so, okay, so a few things about this. So, so to speak about it, you know, in, you know, in, in, in a way that we understand, like, physiologically, right? So we, and this all comes back to film and entertainment in a minute, right? When you think about, I'm not saying anything that other people have not said far more articulately than I have. I came to these understandings in a void, you know, and then later realized, oh, a lot of people have come to these same conclusions.

You know, these aren't unique ideas. But I felt I owned them at the time, if that makes sense. this this notion that um so i you know i teach at usc and i do it there's a thing i do where i put up the mona lisa on the screen and i say kind of jokingly tongue and cheek extra credit if you can tell me what this is and everyone laughs and they say it's the mona lisa and i say right okay additional extra credit you can tell me where it is and they say the louvre and then i say no and then they go france And I say, no.

And they can't understand when I'm getting at it eventually go, oh, the screen, right? And I say no. And what I'm leading them to is where it actually is, is it's in their brains, right? It's, you know, the light is refracting. It's traveling through the eye, the ocular nerve. And that data is being processed. And the brain is quite literally modeling the Mona Lisa. And in fact, it's also modeling me.

And it's modeling the room that we're in and the school itself and all of L.A. And in fact, your mind is modeling the entire universe, right? And so when you think about it this way, what you start to understand is that the universe is malleable because you're literally creating it. It isn't actually there. Right. And so this is why magic doesn't seem so crazy. Right. Because what is magic except a manipulation of the model?

Right. And so, you know, earlier on, when I said, I believe in everything, I do. Because if anything's possible, then everything is possible, right? It's just simply logical. John Keel said the brain is a receiver, and it's generally tuned to a fairly narrow bandwidth. with. Birds migrate because they perceive the electromagnetic spectrum. What is that like? We don't have any idea what that's like. It's not akin to seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. It's its own thing that we couldn't possibly comprehend because we don't

have that sense. And so you have to ask, well, what other senses don't we have? How much information is around us that we just simply don't have the capacity? to clock that data and pull it into the modeling system that we have inside. This, to me, is the essence of what the paranormal is. Some people, for whatever reason, have a slightly broader bandwidth and in various ways can kind of like scratch at some of that other data. And for some people, they see the future and some can read minds and some can move objects. And for me, it's emotion.

it's always emotion it took me a long time to figure that out but that's the extra information that i'm receiving is emotional information um uh sometimes i think those signals are so strong that anyone gifted or not can receive them right and and in many ways i feel that we are moving into a period where those signals are getting stronger you know so so more and more people seem to be having these kinds of experiences in the last five to ten years Well, this is sort of, you know, a weird, something is analogous to this is, you know, we. plant medicines, especially Amanita muscaria, helping folks find calm healing and reconnection without relying on pharmaceuticals. Founded by Christian Rasmussen, who harnessed Aminita

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Check out the informational content on the site for safe, use trips, and let the law of revelation guide you. Much love. Thank you, Minnesota Nice. If you listen to my podcast, I'm sorry, you know this because I talk about it too much. We do know that there's like another Uma-Muma interstellar object moving through our solar system that is non-standard. It seems to have light in the front.

Now, it's venting water, apparently. Fenting water. Now, a lot of the claims made by Avi Loeb have been sort of refuted by various astrophysicists and saying, no, you're just, you know, that it could be. I mean, I think what Avi Loeb is, anything he's writing about it, he does have the caveat, this could just be something, something natural, but why don't we have any preparation for what if it's not? why as a planet in a universe do we not have some like ability to number one determine what the fuck the thing is and why it isn't it isn't adhering to what we might expect and two how do we organize in a way to greet it in whichever way we need to now what people are saying is you know one of the claims that people are making is like the odds of umamuma uh another thing

from outside our solar system and this thing coming to in such a short span of time between each other when we've never seen it before it's easy to think yeah one of them was a scout the next one is the you know mothership or whatever but then the other way people are saying is actually no it's our detecting technology is so much better now that we probably are going to start seeing more and more and more of these things because they're always out there and so what you you know when people like you quote come out of the closet in this regard the telepathy tapes being another example of gen pop getting a download yeah yeah then suddenly what happens is people begin to at the very least experiment with the possibility that they might have been tuning out

frequencies it's not a matter of talent it's not a matter of ability it's just from the get-go if you are taught this isn't real even though any kid if you ever around a kid or under the age of five, dude, they're tuned in, and they are, they don't know that that's weird the things that they're seeing and saying. But then over there's your imagination. That's just a dream. That didn't happen.

Dude, I hear my little girl having full on conversations. Yeah. In her crib at night was something, talking. My daughter did that too. Laughing. Yeah, my daughter. Yeah, but then you're talking. No, this isn't real.

And maybe the extraordinary ability stuff is just like, you didn't tune it out. You could, you tried. You went down the path of the skeptic, which is a fantastic way, theoretically, to immunize yourself from all that goes along with having to hear stuff that other people aren't hearing, but it didn't work. And your rational mind is, that's where skeptics are perfect candidates for waking up to this reality. because you have trained your rational mind to like you to believe what you're seeing and to doubt what you're seeing but when your mind is trained at that degree and you have the experiences you're talking about and you're like there's no fucking way this is a delusion boom welcome welcome to a whole new world and yeah so I think the you're I don't don't know if the signal's stronger or if it's just that the internet is letting people share stories like this in a way that it's opening people up to a kind of latent human ability. That could be.

Yeah, that could be. Maybe there's just an opportunity to talk about it more. And so, but I do talk to a lot of people who have sensitivities who all feel that there is something changing. And, you know, we are entering the age of Aquarius, that there's something happening. There's something changing. The veil is thinning in some way. And, you know, if you look at the grand timeline of humanity, this moment that we're in is the aberration, you know, when when spirituality is quite literally paved over.

We pave over nature, literally. That was our great idea. I was like, well, let's put cement over all the grass and the earth, right? You know, and I think that's very, it's very telling about how we, what is, what is spirituality, but nature, it's an extension of nature. And, you know, I, you know, I'm very lucky, like, we live in the hills. And I lived in cities my whole life. The forest is like the terrifying to me. And now we actually live up against some woods.

And I go out there and I hear shit in the woods in night. And to me, I'm like, if that's a coyote or like a demon, it's all nature, right? It's all alien to me. I just, you know. So, but I do, you know, I did a lot. I did think that there is a chance that we're all kind of. waking up. And I think that, I mean, that was one of the things we were texting about the other day when I was saying that, you know, when we were contemplating like, gosh, what if we really

are here for the end? What if this is the apocalypse coming? And, you know, and, you know, I was saying, you know, that I had had this thought and maybe this is, you want to talk about video games, but it's like, what if, what if all of what's happening here is we're all being spawned into an apocalypse scenario every few years and it's on a loop and it's like it's some sort of a it's some sort of a you know like a school or it's a training ground or you know well if there's reincarnation if you believe in some sort of there is then regardless of global uh collapse regardless of media or impact regardless of singularity AI induced apocalypse you are you are you your vessel that you're moving around in is yeah in the end times because you are going to die

as long as you're immortal you live in an apocalypse and if there's reincarnation into another mortal vehicle then that means that we are perpetually apocalyptic we are perpetually having to contend with the end of everything I add to what you said about the subjective mind being the sort of um the the the the mirror of reality that we call the human realm then every memory every preference every idea of how things are or not upon your expiration by bye it's gone baby gone and that is the apocalypse it's totally i love that you said because i think about that all the time because i turned 50 a few years ago and i and i and i and i and i and i you know, I couldn't help, but like the minute I crested the hill, I started feeling

like I could see the end, right? And, and processing it and preparing a little bit. Sure. And, and, and I have had the thought, like, is, is my apocalyptic feeling just about my own death? Or is it, am I actually picking up on some global event, you know? Well, I mean, both can have. Sorry, go ahead. You know, both are possible. Well, certainly if the second one happens, the first one is. If you're mortal, I mean, some generation is going to get to experience the double delight of having to deal with their own body getting old and also watching the world around them disintegrate. And so, yeah, it could be. And yeah, I don't know. But I definitely agree with you.

I do think something's happening that is non-standard. And by that, I don't know about the hippie global awareness. awakening consciousness stuff, though I do play around with the idea, but certainly you can look in the technological world. You can look at the geopolitical landscape. You can look at just all that's happening. And you would have to be the pandemic, the UAP revelations, you would have to be a buffoon to look at all of these events that are rising together and not say something's going on. What? absolutely is happening this is absolutely anomalous it's not any one event you alligarch pedophiles

okay everything else fine but yeah I guess the some weird elite have been trafficking kids for a while and they're involved okay fine you know what that I don't even know if that's anomalous you can look back at Bathory you can look back at a history of power sadly has within it some form of human rights abuse in an egregious way but then you add to that uap disclosure then you add to that the rise of cryptocurrency the general growing global mistrust for fiat currency then you add to that the uh geopolitical landscape the the ominous you know what maybe you know it's it's not nuclear weapons it's tactical nuclear weapons the kind of game of Footsie, the military industrial complex is playing with, like,

eh, it's tactical nukes. The old nukes, they were kind of sloppy. These are tactical, so it's a little different. Maybe we could use the nukes. And then you add to that the accessibility of technology that probably should be regulated but isn't being regulated. Because this is regulated, then the AI arms race, you're going to lose it to the unregulated AI.

And then you add to that, the relationships people are developing with a non-human intelligence, the psychosis related to AI, and then you add to that any number of the other bizarre things that are happening and all together when you look at that, you have to admit, something's bubbling. The cauldron's bubbling a little bit right now. And that's for real. I don't even think you have to have some kind of Christian Hindu sense of the some eschatological sense.

I think you just look at what's going on. Definitely the scene is being set for something real weird. It feels that way. It feels that way. You know, I practice in my head all the time. There could be a day when we all walk outside and the sky is filled with flying saucers. It could happen. And then it could happen in a month.

And you're going to be annoyed. I'm going to be annoyed. I think my first responsibly, like, holy shit. And then I'm like, God damn. I wanted to do a podcast today. You know what I mean? We're just going to be like that. We're still human.

Oh, great. Fucking UFO traffic. Now I'm going to be fucking late to my therapist. So, so this I think is a perfect setup for what you're up to. And it's something that, you know, setting the ground for it, definitely like shows why it's the perfect time yeah for a podcast network dedicated to the paranormal what a perfect time for it something to chart track map report in on speculate on all this growing data regarding the weird shit happening in the world man and not only that

but just the media landscape, we should have thrown that into the things that are changing. What they're calling legacy media used to be like, used to be just everything. Movies, TV, late-night TV, news, the way we get our news, all of it falling apart, demonetized, no more money. Suddenly these powerful conglomerates are competing with, the fucking hawk to a girl

who, you know, just turns on a fucking camera and like makes infinitely more than any of the late night shows. And so the you, it seems like Spectrevision is ahead of its

time or right on time, I guess you could say, in recognizing like the internet is the new movie screen. The internet is the combination of movies, TVs. TV everything. And so y'all have created, or creating a, correct me if I'm wrong here, like sort of like high

level, high quality video podcasts that are thematically about the paranormal. Yeah. I mean, it's two parallel ideas, but I think we'll talk about the video part in a second, But the notion of a podcast network that's entirely devoted to esoteric and philosophical questions about the nature of reality, i.e. paranormal, right? It's, I think what, just to bring it a little bit back to my narrative, and then we'll pick it up with the podcast network, is that the next thing that happened for me, so after I kind of came out, I did the show spooked, you know, that show. The podcast spooked. It's a big listener story, ghost story thing. And I, and I, it's a long story, but I ended up doing that.

I said it was like, my, came out as an experiencer. And what I found was that actually, given my identity as the co-founder of Spectrevision, wasn't met with a lot of resistance, right? It was, I was already kind of in that world. And so as I started really getting my nose into a lot of research and, you know, theoretical writings about what the paranormal is, like I said, you know, Charles Ford and John Keel and, you know, Linda Moulin-How, et cetera, et cetera, I started to realize that as the guy who more or less had been running development for Spectrevision and, you know, had a, I mean, we all do

everything together, but that I had somehow been a part of bringing all these films to life that were really accurate portrayals of the paranormal in ways that were kind of unusual. And And so that, to me, itself almost felt like a supernatural occurrence. Like, where, like, where did, how did that happen? And, and, and so, so, um, so the next thing was the, the, I'm going to tell you two quick stories. Great. One's about Mandy. So back before all this paranormal stuff started, we had just completed a screening at Fantastic Fest.

I don't remember what the movie was. You know, you do, you do the cueing. And then there's like these concentric circles of social interaction, you know, first it's like, you know, fans with questions and then it's your friends and then it's your agents and then you're off work, right? So I'm walking through the lobby and I feel this little tug on my jacket and I turn around and there's this young woman, emo, very awkward and she can't even make eye contact. And she says, I just wanted to tell you, Mandy is my favorite movie. I just started to leave and I stopped her and I because I'd been hearing that a lot and it and it was beautiful but it was a little unexpected and and and I said do you mind if I ask you why it's your favorite movie and I watched her kind of like go inside and root around for an answer and she came back up and she said something that was so simple and so beautiful and in some way so obvious but I needed to hear it she said I thought. I thought I was the only one who felt that way. Yeah.

So cool. I still get a little emotional when I say it because it just, I realize, oh, right. You know, Panos, I watched the whole, we all watched his process. He reaches inside and he, and he depicts what he sees in there. And this is what the great artists do. They're, you know, all artists start out as mimics. You know, we mimic the stuff that we like. If we're a painter, we copy Matisse, if you're a comedian, you do, you know, you do Richard Pryor.

And what you're doing is, you know, you're building your skills. Eventually, the mimicry is your own interior world. That's what you're mimicking, right? And so what she taught me was, that's why we make art. It's quite simply to reassure other people that they're not alone with their weird feelings. It's, and that's a beautiful and positive thing. After I did spooked and talked about my paranormal. experiences, which was terrifying, by the way.

I got a note from a young woman named Jessica, who was an autopsy technician. Oh, God. Yeah. In Mount Shasta of all places. Oh, God. What a right. Well, it certainly was for her because she was often experiencing the emotional circumstances of the death of the people.

And it was incredibly overwhelming to her. there was a time when she saw a man hanging by his neck from the rafters. And there were a couple times when I think she even felt like she could contribute to solving a murder. But she had been keeping it all hidden. And in many ways, I think I contextualized it is psychosis. And the note that I got from her essentially said, I'm paraphrasing. It said, it's so easy to dismiss people who talk about this stuff publicly for seeking attention. Right.

She said, but you, because, you know, to her. her you know i'm hollywood which you know i mean i get that it's but i'm just a guy but i you know it's you know i'm elijah what's partner it's from her perspective she's essentially you're someone who only could lose from talking about this and she was so inspired she had quit her job and was going to rededicate herself to understanding her gift how to apply it to make the world a better place and lives in L.A. now and has, in fact, done that. And so I tell you these two stories, because to me, to describing the same event, right? And so what I realized was that I already am part owner of this company that is in this world of depicting the paranormal.

And it would just be like an extra step to say, well, we're now expanding into nonfiction. And that what we might be able to do, to contribute to the culture is normalize these conversations a little bit, right? Is, you know, because if, because, you know, we're not, we don't come from the world of woo. You know, I'm not wearing crystals. I can't, you know, and by the way, I love all that stuff. I have crystals, but there's like a cultural dress up that a lot of people just reject. They just won't take it seriously.

Sure. So all of that led to the podcast network, which is, you know, podcasts are, are so free. It's the only place where you can have a conversation like this for several hours without being edited. And there's no Viacom telling you what you can or can't say. And podcasts have been a great comfort to me when I was trying to find any kind of context for what I was going through. So the notion of Spectrevision Radio is it's a collective of different minds who are all examining the nature of reality in some way. a very diverse lineup of people who come from different cultures and belief systems and disciplines.

Some are approaching it more mystically, some more scientifically, some, you know, are just straight up like, you know, I'm a ghost hunter. I'm, um, others are folklorists, but it's what, what everyone has in common. How many are you starting off with? Yes. Well, we've been around for a year, but, but today we are unveiled, we have currently have 50 shows, which is, I know, mind boggling. But all of them are different. And they're very carefully curated. They're very carefully selected to be a bunch of dots that are 55-0. Yeah.

And so some are focused on just very, the paranormal in a very strict way. Some are more, again, more mystical. Some have a little bit of a religious bent to them. There are several that are very serious, hardcore investigations of the UAP phenomenon. Danny Sheehan, who you should absolutely have on the show. So he's a genius. You know, he has a show with us. And by the way, you know, he has the new paradigm institute.

Danny is probably, he's one of our celebrity attorneys. I mean, in fact, he was a student of Dershowitz, you know, maybe we don't like so much anymore. But, but he, you know, he was in, as a student, he helped break the Pentagon papers. His first, one of his first cases out of his law school was the Kennedy assassination. He was investigating the kid. I mean, this guy, you know, he, Silkwood, that movie was.

based on his case or on contra. I mean, this guy's like the Forrest Gump of major political events. What he's only really revealed in the last few years is that all throughout all of this, the thing he was the most interested in was the UAP problem. Wow. Because really early on, John Mack retained him as his attorney to defend him when Harvard was trying to boot him out because he was writing papers about the abduction experience. Right.

Danny was his lawyer. So Danny started getting access to all this information and going, holy shit, this is real. I mean, he's, you know, he's seen the evidence. He's looked at it with his eye. And his response to that was to say, there are profound legal questions associated with this. You know, and because he's a lawyer, he started the New Paradigm Institute, which is based out of D.C. And his thing, you know, he works very closely with Congress. He's like, he's pushing for disclosure through legal change.

channels. And it's fascinating to watch. It's like a little, a centimeter every day is, you know, just, it's just a little bit closer. It's like, like, cornering them into a place where they legally have to disclose. And he believes it's coming soon. This is the rise of the amnesty idea. The idea is. Yes. This is an angle of the UIP thing that I never even thought of. You know, you think the reason they're not revealing it is, it is not as mundane as because. they don't want to get fucking lawsuits, which is apparently what it is. When you realize... It's beyond lawsuits. It's jail time. Jail.

But when you realize that it's really just people saving their own asses, you know, they think we're not ready for it. They're trying to protect us. They don't want global uprisings. No, it's not that at all. They're going to get their asses sued into fucking oblivion for this shit

and they know it. And so they're, of course, they're not going to disclose because they don't want to go to jail. And the idea is, correct let's give them amnesty what happens if we create blanket amnesty for everybody okay whatever you you you concealed a alien corpse okay you made a treaty with the gray aliens that they could abduct humans in exchange for technology okay we would rather you not go to jail if it means

we get to live in a universe populated by things we've all intuitive experienced in encountered and read about, you know, living the truth. It's science. It's just that it's the general right direction, the trajectory you want humanity to be on. And so that's, yeah, I do, you know, that that's a huge part of what we were talking about earlier is that. And that's what they mean by the term catastrophic disclosure. We always assume that means it's catastrophic to society. No, no, it's catastrophic to the people, the secret keepers, you know. I mean, the other thing, which, you know, I think it's been said a lot. I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been out there,

but is that there are these black programs. And, you know, so if you imagine that you are a major defense contractor who has had these deals where you are licensing alien tech that you have exclusive propriety over. And all of a sudden, in 2025, somebody comes, as long as we're just really it's open source now they're like dudes i've spent a trillion dollars in the last 50 years like you can't just this is mine right you know how many telepaths it took us to figure out how to turn this UFO engine into a microwave you know how many nose

bleeds do you know how many eyeballs shot out as they tried to open up the first layer of the seven layer doom boxes it came to be called do you know oh great so now everybody's going to have our kind of microwave exactly yeah exactly dude it's wild that that it's wild they're really practical problems they're they're far more mundane and then they're so mundane they're so self-interest there's none of this people go insane in the streets no it's like motherfucker i patented that shit. And no, it wouldn't, from what I've heard, reverse, reverse engineering alien technology is apparently not that easy. Like though, there is the argument that the, um, the UFO, uh, wreckage, as they call it, is actually not wreckage, but donations. It's donations, right? Yeah, but also built

into the donations seems to be a lot of firewalls. The stuff apparently incinerates by itself. It, It doesn't seem to want to be decoded, which flies in the face of the, like, donation version of the story. I think it's just some of them are shitty pilots. Like, some of them are just not, they're just not good at flying a UFO. I mean, that's very possible. Well, I think it's important to remember that it's like when talking about, say, you know, ghosts or any kind of unseen entities. And sometimes, because I've had so many of these experiences, and I also, I think, because, you know, we've talked, I see UFOs. constantly and for whatever reason there's some people who see orbs more than others for

some reason it's orbs for me it's mostly orbs i have had a couple crafts but it's almost overwhelmingly orbs um and they let me take their picture for some reason i don't know why but i have lots of pictures and videos i mean you're you're a producer i mean i think that's what i literally think that's what it is there's a kind of like efficacy you know it makes sense you kind of smart it's like yeah i know Yeah, they're like, oh, he's a media guy. Let's let him get the picture. I'll just let some dick with a fucking iPhone film us. Like, it's going to be all blurry.

They're not going to have the right thing settings. So I got this baby right here. It happens to be right in front of me. What is it? It's the Nikon P-1000, and it has a 3,000 millimeter lens on it. Holy shit. So this thing, let's see if I can actually extend it right now. I just said, holy shit, like I know what that means.

I got to admit it. I don't know what that means. A normal zoom lens is, it's not, you know, it's not super, why isn't this going out? A normal zoom lens doesn't go, you know, look at that thing. It's a telescope essentially. I've gotten some crazy pictures of things in the sky with this thing, things that, you know, you start, you start to realize, oh, there's a couple reasons why we don't capture UFO, we don't see and capture UFOs more often. one no one's looking right we gave up i'm constantly looking up when everyone's like what are you looking at i go what i'm just just just checking you got me looking up when we got to become friends

i i went through a mini a night going out into my mosquito ridden backyard because of you yeah did you see anything looking up no i didn't but i feel rejected next time i'm in austin next This time I'm in, or you're in L.A. I mean, so, you know, this like C.E.5 thing, whatever. You could, the basis of all magic is just simply focused in tension. You can do it by chanting. You can do it with ritual. You can do it with it. But, you know, what I have found is, like, if I just sit in my heart and I just focus my attention really hard on, like, sending up an invitation, 50% of the time something crazy shows up, you know. Yeah. So, and often times when people are. You're like, let me tell you what you just did. You did the UFO version of, yeah, you know, when I throw a party, lots of people show up. I don't know I know when comes to your shitty parties. Yeah, I don't know.

It's weird. Maybe it's your invitation. Maybe you need to write a better invitation. No, it's because people don't like me. And the orbs don't like me. Because I, and I get it. Like, I understand. And honestly, maybe they're compassionate.

because I thought you know I would one part of me absolutely would love nothing more than to finally see one of these beautiful pulsing balls of light would love nothing more but there is another part of me that the times I have had experiences like what you just described I did not like it like what I was saying earlier like scary it's scary it's scary man and like the times i've got ghost encounters the times i've i've you know felt that tightening of the air and the yes the presence uh and then god help me if like actually something moves or something and the difference between like something in that space moving a little bit and something just randomly falling there's a world of difference between those two yes one is just like whatever

your fucking remote control fell off the table who knows the other is uh communicate communicate it's a communication or it's just, hey, hi, I don't know why, but it really, it feels so ominous to me. And that's something it's a hundred, a hundred percent. I struggle with this all the time. I have never had, well, I think I'm at a, I think I'm a little desensitized to the lights in the sky. I don't get scared anymore. They're also so far away. But, but when something's happening like on the ground, whether, you know, it, and, you know, what is it, I don't even know if I believe in goes.

anymore. Honestly, I believe in the experience that we call ghosts, but I'm very suspicious of what they actually are, but, you know, ghosts, you know, some kind of, you know, entities, anything on the ground, believe it or not, have even had a Bigfoot experience, which I know sounds, that was when I went, okay, anything's, anything's possible. Doesn't sound where anything's possible. Like, like, it's, um, is, so when it's happening on the ground, I am, my whole body is just flush with fear. Like, I've turned to gelatin. And, And I'm trying to practice, you know, Whitley Streber wrote about this beautifully in communion about how, you know,

he would force himself to go to this area on the woods every night because he was so overcome with fear that he was like, what am I missing that so he would, you know, he would go to this spot. So, you know, I'm not going to go through the whole thing right now. I think we've talked about my 303 thing, but I, you know, I wake up at 303 often. And it came through the long story that I'll tell you another time because it'll take an hour. But I like the 303 thing kept happening and I kept pulling the thread and I eventually realized that 303 was actually leading me to an understanding about possibly having a relationship with like that, you know, possibly having been a contactee or an abductee. And so I, you know, I, recently, I started realizing, you know, when I wake up at 303, I often am feeling a pull to go outside, but I'm scared and I'm also tired, right? Right.

This is a wild story. That is an inconvenient time. It's a very inconvenient time because then you're not going back to sleep if you get up and go outside. But so we went out to contact, Ariel, my wife and I went to contact in the desert this year. And I was in the middle of working on high strangeness, the comic book series, which I want to talk to about, too. And I was right in the middle of kind of working on the fifth story, which I knew I wanted to involve mantis beings. So I had been reading a lot about mantis beings. And so we're driving out to the desert to Palm Springs.

And I say, hey, do you mind if we'd listen to podcasts about mantis beings? You're talking about, like, weirdly people on Iowa. Awasca report having these jeweled mantis creatures. Yeah. They're humanoid. They have the head of a mantis. And people often describe them as being like at the time, like hierarchically advanced. Like they're at the top.

They seem to be ordering everyone around. They're very benevolent. Yeah. That, you know, um, so we're, again, I've just been in mantis land. We're driving. We're, we're listening to a podcast about mantis beings. something drops out of from behind the sun visor onto the it's the fucking praying mantis which i have never seen a praying i'm 53 i've never seen a praying mantis anywhere let alone

in my car right so we're both looking at this thing going what this is unignorable right it's impossible so this little guy gets on the dash it rides for two hours all the way out to palms springs with us. And then we open the door and it's like goes on to Mary. Thanks for the ride. It's a, we dropped it off at the high hit. Yeah. So, so that night, that night, I woke up at 303. We're getting the next day we're going to contact in the desert. You know, it's like UFO mania. I think, okay, I'm going to go outside. Like I've never done it before, right? we're staying at this resort it's there's people everywhere this isn't a creepy isolated location but we happen to be like right on the edge of a golf course and we're on the ground floor it's the

easiest thing in the world i can just slide the door open and go 10 feet and i'm outside right so i get up put my pants on i go outside This is an ad by Better Help. Friends, you've heard me ramble about this on the podcast. Better Help, I know this isn't exactly on the script. I'm going to say it. I'm sorry if you don't want me to. Forgive me in advance.

But I'm hearing people using chat GPT as a therapist. That's terrifying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it as a digital pseudo friend or something like that. But the problem is the fact that people. think an LLM can be a therapist indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of what a therapist is. And for me, therapists have changed my life for the better, and they didn't change it by doing what chat GBT does, which is just seemingly tell you what you want to hear, reframing what you say to it in a kind of sweet way.

No, they're more akin to dentists. They get in there, or they give you the courage to get in to the dark crevice. of your psyche, where there might be some chewed up bits of memory steak, giving you bad breaths in the form of rotten dreams. Now, that's my own personal experience, and BetterHelp did not tell me to say that. Let me reiterate. That came from me, Not BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform,

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BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Duncan. That's better H-E-L-P.com slash Duncan. Thank you, BetterHelp. I can't, I can't stay up anymore. Like I, 15 over the mountain range.

Wow. Um, um, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I told you this story. It was part of some point I was making, but, you know what it's triggered to me? I, I, this is a quick story, but this is like, this is like before you, when I was still on my skeptical phase in doing what many skeptics get themselves in trouble doing this shit, because you would think your skepticism will shield you. You're outside the rule.

that like anyone who has any sense of this stuff there's rules there's a kind of hygiene i guess you could say regarding how you might want to sort of interact with this reality and um i'd gotten a grim war and a real like a good grim war i don't even know where the fuck i got my hands on this thing but like a grim war grim war and i don't think i'd ever had like a real like and i don't mean like the black pullet or some antiquated thing this was and i wish i could remember the name of it well written well written book on practicing magic how to do it

not cheesy like fucking I don't know Barnes & Noble bullshit like it felt like it had been written by someone at Miscatonic University

or something and so I'm I'm you know just reading looking at one of these rituals and you know I start you know

not as anyone who practices magic knows there isn't an easy as far as I'm aware there's not really like a very easy ritual like a real ritual there's a kind of like I don't know it reminds me of like if you wanted to like anyone who's taken LSD is when it made is wanted to make LSD and then you're like it was like it's like it's like playing Eldon Ring you're like to unlock this skill I've got to unlock these seven other skills first and yeah yeah you got to go back baby you got like Crowley says that too it's like dude you've got to learn yoga you've got to learn meditation you've got to learn Latin you've got to be 50. other books before. So all that being said, I'm in my shitty comedians apartment in West Hollywood with this grimace. And I start reading something out of it. I don't think anything's going to happen. I'm just reading it. There's that feeling in the air. I think that might have been

my first time I'd ever really felt that before. And then everyone go ahead and judge me. This happened. I hear this. Thump. Now, what I heard, I went to over to where the sound was coming from or the sound came from just a thump something landing on my carpet a fucking penny had fallen out of the ceiling yeah nothing around we're talking ceiling carpet and you know as a parent if you know the sound of something landing on the ground because like if you're opening Tylenol or something you almost get a sonar if you drop a Tylenol for where the fucking thing bounces to get because you don't want your kid to eat adult medicine

yeah it was like outside of me reading the grimoire if that had happened it still would have freaked me out because it's a common thing it's happened to coins to my wife pennies it was a fucking what the fuck is that dude it was awful and I shut that fucking grim war

I gave it away like an asshole you probably shouldn't give away a curse book but I'm like you take this thing i do not want i whatever that is it's not here's the thing you don't like again these that feeling you're describing which i love that you're just talking about this because it's it's there there aren't words in the english language to describe that feeling i'm always but the the best i can do is to say it kind of feels like there's a pressure like a pressure building it's and it's not atmospheric it's just it's it's impossible to explain what it is you felt it you know i here's how you maybe a good description

If you've ever been to a good rave, and you're standing in front of a high-tech bass speaker, now take that feeling of compression, freeze it. You know what I mean? Beautiful. That's perfect. And that's what it feels like. Because it is like it's an Uber silence. It's an Uber, it feels like time stands still.

Yes. It's, you know, the cricket stop, the wind stop. Like everything just goes and you go, listen. Now you listen. It's the sound of listening. It's the sound of a good, it's just, it's a soundless sound. So cool that we both can relate, describe this very, very, very, very obscure experience. But I got, I'm sorry, I got to stop you and go reverse the tape a little bit here.

Okay. Because I've never, I've rarely tell that story, only told a few times. And I've certainly never heard that coins falling out of the air. oh yeah it's common it's common what the fuck man you can't just say that and then zip past that man because like it's a thing where it's something i've literally suppressed until you told this that story and then it just popped into my head because that's the other quality of these experiences it's much like dreams you know you will have them and then you forget because you just it doesn't fit into any kind of category in your brain

I don't have any penny explanation. I don't. I just know that it happens to my wife somewhat regularly. And I've talked to other like paranormal researchers about it. It's a common phenomenon. The penny dropping. It's always a penny dropping out of nowhere. It's very weird.

But what I was saying, I actually was going to speak about the penny when I was describing that that feeling of tension is that is, it is it gets back to this idea that there's when the paranormal is happening we are just flooded with fear it's an instinctual thing but that doesn't mean it's dangerous right okay those are two different things and and that the what I think it's a good to to contextualize the penny it's a gift it's it's not a threat it's a gift and and so you know this gifting is a huge thing with the unseen world you know there's a place here and in the canyon that I won't say what it's like a secret here in Laurel Canyon there's a place that if you know about it there's this beautiful altar up in this very obscure spot at the top of the hills and I go up there all the time and and and I bring gifts you know it's and you know I brought coins I brought apples I brought some you know I'll bring like a little flag or a matchbook or a toy or something Trump flag sure right not it's not my it's not up to me

to decide it's politics. And sometimes, you know, I get gifts back. I mean, you know, I was up there a few weeks ago and, and a little, I don't even know what it is. It's like there's like a little hard fruit that grows on the tree. And it just dropped on me. And I went, oh, and I looked up and like, I wasn't under one of those trees. And then I looked around and I found like the tree was like a hundred feet away.

And I, you know, and so, you know, so this. this ring right here this is my second one of these rings so so i i am i was doing some work out in front of our house i was just doing yard work and and i had lost some weight put it back but but like i was like reaching into this detritus and i wasn't and i felt my ring fly off like pull out with all this just gross like you know and and and i look down i'm like there's just a mountain of like dirty leaves and i'm never going to find this for it like it's gone like i'm I, you know, and I've had it for years, and I felt really sad about it. And so, you know, I cleaned up all that yardways.

It wasn't even, like, directly in front of the house. It was, I got a new ring. Months go by. Months. I'm out on the deck. I look over on the rail, and there's the ring. It's sitting on the railing, like, perfectly centered in the railing. And I went into my wife, and I said, oh, you found my ring.

And she said, I saw that, too. I assume you put that. there. Oh, man. And I, and I, and I, so the ring is now, you know, up in an altar in our hearts because, you know, that was a gift. It was, they said, hey, we found your ring. You know. So I, I think those little objects are really positive things. I think they're, I think it's a, I think it's an act of friendship. It's not a threat. And, and, and again, so it's so important to separate the, the innate fear from legitimate danger. They're not necessarily the same thing. This is why I think there's, uh,

when I mentioned like some kind of like magical hygiene I think that's why because the the idea is like maybe before you start invoking this or that or dive into that place you know really make sure that you're you're going to be able to receive whatever that energy is in a in a in a in a in a polite way because, you know, when I shave my head, I remember, like, I would, my kids would, walking down the hall, my kid didn't know I was behind him, he turned and look and said, fuck. You know what I'm. He's like, I'm your dad. Not anymore. He didn't say fuck, but like, you know, but similarly, like, you know, it is somewhat rude to theoretically invite something you have no idea what you're inviting. It shows up in a, kind of sweet way honestly penny maybe kind of look at inflation that might have meant something back

in the 1800s man how about some silver dollars huh but still to like make a cute little hello and then to be met with I'm throwing this book away it's like what the fuck do I need a pot of deodor and you called me it's like when I call my wife

and I talk for a few seconds I gotta go and she's like you called me what do what what so that that's the That's true. Kind of etiquette, a kind of spiritual etiquette that if you are going to start working with those energies, don't, well, it's a weird way to describe it. Don't dehumanize them, though. They're theoretically not human.

It's, it's 100% true. And you can talk, you know, you can, you feel like a lunatic, but, you know, like you can talk to them. You know, when we moved into this house a couple years ago, we both immediately clocked that it was haunted. And I remember the first, like, we had just taken the house and there was no furniture. and I'd come to like, I don't remember. Like, there was some reason I was here by myself and we hadn't moved anything in. And I found myself without even realizing it,

talking to them. And I was, I said, you know, hey, you know, my name's Daniel, because the house had been empty for a while. I said, you know, I know you've been here alone. My family's moving in. You're welcome to stay. I just, but, you know, we do have to live together.

We're going to have to live together. And like, you know, and then, and I heard what I was saying. It just, it wasn't something I sat down and decided to do. It just, but it's, you know, and so this actually gets back to a loose end from earlier, which, and it does have to do with, I think, me wanting to challenge this notion that's all scary, is that the quality of different unseen entities is as varied as people. And I think, you know, what you were saying about UFOs, you know, I think it's, even UFOs are,

they're all different kinds. Some are orbs, some are physical metal craft. Some, you know, some I think probably are only, the craft are only operated,

operatable with telepathy. Others probably have poles and levers. Like it's, you know, we tend to think that, you know, like a category of something paranormal is like, there's just one kind,

right? But it's, you know, I can tell you that just the, I've lost track. I wish. I wish I'd been better about keeping notes on this stuff. It's too late.

Like I've lost track of, but, you know, sometimes it feels positive and sometimes it's, it's negative. And, you know, I mean, you know, Ariel and I once were out in the desert and we, you know, we were, we were on mushrooms and we, when we compare notes hours later, we had both been dealing with the same dude separately. And he was not cool, this guy. Like he, like he, like, like, no question it was the same guy. sure

they're not all sweet they're not all evil dude I mean look like this is on the internet but I'll summarize mushrooms penis envy mushrooms

two bunch palms in the desert it's a vortex it's an amplifier and look up in a tree and you know man I'd been taking psychedelics my whole life

and like you know you hear people I saw a dragon on male asked me it's like yeah you didn't see a dragon walls melt shit moves like you know but a dragon like a I look up in a fucking tree and in that tree the sun is setting is a gnome now dude I am this is another thing talk about state like this is something I

even though I there's I've set it online I still feel dumb saying it and I'm look I so I do my technique this is a great technique really advanced for when I see something on psychedelics I don't want to see look away when I look back it won't be there anymore look back

there's that fucking creature it's a gnome and it's not like kind of oh I see gnomes it's sort of gnome the whole thing the hat the thing

the clothes so now I'm having to deal with the fact that I've looked away from a hallucination and look back it's not a hallucination it's watching the sunset it i got the sense it likes to come out of the tree and watch the sunset and then it notices

that i can see it and it did not it wasn't mean annoyed grumpy old man looks at me like ugh and then like goes back to watching the sunset that was my mystical encounter with a gnome that's awesome dissed it hurt my feelings it was like you know you wanted to be Like, yeah, you see me. Let me tell you the message of the tree. It was just like, oh, fucking human. Think about what we are to them. We're like big, dumb, slobbering dogs.

Slow. Yeah, yeah, we're drooling all over them. We're barking too loud. You know, we're fucking, we're tracking mud all over the place. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you start to realize it if you, you know, just next time you're in a bookstore and you just look over, like,

the occult section on the folklore and the fairy tales, you realize most of their shit is real. right right at one way or another most of it's real well right because here's what we think in modernity this is what we think we think well these silly superstitious fools back in the old days came up with these bedtime stories that they told over and over again and in the telling of the bedtime stories it became mythology but no one really experienced elves norms the good people even though like again and again and again you hear it over and over and over again and and that's part of the of the blinders of modernity and this is what i think why there is a space this is why the telepathy

tapes are good there is a a real space in need for conversations revolving around this stuff that at least you know i love what mitch horowitz does that at least like get you know invite people listen yeah was like you if i heard any of the shit that we've been talking about i would be like yeah it's cool whatever twilight zone bullshit not real but the invitation i think that's the most important part is the invitation to humanity is all like hey yeah maybe instead of immediately shutting this shit out yeah what happens if you just for an evening entertain the possibility yeah that not that that that millions of people yes throughout the ages who've reported these in poetic ways, serious ways, silly ways are not insane.

No. Like maybe, maybe it could be that in fact, you're missing out on an entire, I guess you could say, it's like a new spectrum of color, you know? Well, it's the arrogance of humanity, you know, and like Neil deGrasse Tyson to me is the Darth Vader of our time. Like I, you know, this guy is so arrogant. And he's so dismissive of anything that he can't measure. And that's really the basic.

I like him. And I'll tell you why. Why? I compare him to like the dude in the car when you're getting stoned with your friends. And you're like, man, I think that dude over there's a cop. And he's like, that's just the guy going in 7-Eleven. He calms you. I'm not saying.

Like, from that, like for me, when I've really gone way out into like, In the deep space, I go to a Neil deGrasse Tyson video and I'm like, okay, yeah, okay. So in that way, as a kind of palate cleanser, as an anchor, though I do think he is always right next door, just rubbing shoulders with what will be the most hilarious, mystical experience anyone ever had when he has his road to Damascus experience oh totally well he won't tell anyone though that'll be it'll be a dirty little secret you know is you know and this is and this is what I mean about the arrogance of science you know is that is that we we're obsessed with our tools of measure you know if we if we have a tool to measure something we call it science

if we lack that tool we call it supernatural we call it the spirit and it's and that's so unbelievably arrogant of us to think, we are the arbiter of what is real and what is unreal. If we can't measure it, it doesn't count. And there's, I have this analogy that I, I use all the time. This is so simple. And it's, it's like the, the basic principles of scientific method is that you have a, you have a, a series of proofs. Yeah. Like, so you have a, there's a theory and you're like, okay, I'm going to, I need to prove this theory in a scientific setting. So, so first I have to prove A, and then if I prove A, then that, then great tip that box. Then I can proves B, C, D, and eventually I'll get to N, and the N is the thing that I've proven

in. So you make it to C and you can't prove C. And you go, okay, abort, abort. Okay. This is the sort of philosophically, this is saying no. I am saying no. I am not going to continue down this path. So if you think of it as a flight of stairs, and each stair is one of these proofs that you have to master in order to ascend the staircase and you and you get to the fourth stair and you fail and you turn around and you go back down right this is why i think it's so important if you are someone who is in tune with the supernatural to be willing to make a fool of yourself all the time to risk being a naive idiot right is that if if you say my i made a deal i'm going to always say yes no matter how outlandish it may seem i'm going to assume it's a real paranormal

thing unless it's proven otherwise it's the exact opposite of power so if you do that and you let go of this idea that you have to prove every step you will go to the top of the stairs in the way the scientist doesn't and that's something only a producer would understand i'm sorry if that's a producer a producer understands that's true because god knows that when you're making something they're submissing steps and it's like how the fuck do we get a helicopter? We're not getting an helicopter No we're getting to helicopter

It's going to happen You're dead right And because you guys aren't subs Producers are the opposite of submissives You cannot have a submissive producer Producers They're their pack mules They just keep fucking

They're pulling the fuck They're ox You guys are crazy You just do it somehow you're not a sub and there's if you think of scientists as being a little like submissives in the sense that they don't believe they're participating in reality they believe that they're sort of uncovering reality but participation in the sort of outflow of reality itself via the mind in the realm of what they would call magic well yeah if you believe enough

when you get to that step and you're proving your hypothesis you're wrong you some part of you have to ask how much of that belief that it's wrong is concretizing the wrongness of the fucking thing and nobody wants to go there no one wants to go there because the whole the whole thing falls apart at that point now we're i always say i always say skepticism proves itself everybody i know who says like well you know i'm open you know i'm open i'm open you know i'm open you're like well guess guess it's not going to show itself to you with that attitude like it's you know and then And then they walk out going, see? And it's like, well, it was you. It was you, dude. And then, well, that's a very convenient. Well, this is the trickster nature of it. You know, it's not, I mean, I was a rare case, you know, where it literally went,

it just smacked the shit out of me to get, you know, to give my attention, you know. And, and then I realized, you know, it was like laughable. You know, Elijah used to tease me, say, how are you a skeptic? You've had more paranormal experiences than anybody I know. And somehow I would always just write them off, you know. Yeah. I'd say to my wife, I try to do that with my wife. She's like, Duncan, you're the most religious person I've ever met. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I am a very, very skeptical man. And it's like, okay, I guess you're right. I do pray. I try to do spells. I mean, I constantly pray as much as I can all the time. But yeah, I guess I know. I understand. But there's a part of me that still wants to be Neil de Gras Tyson. and it's a part of me that still feels safe in that in that realm sure it's it's safe to remain in this where you can prove things it's very well and also i've seen people dragged man i mean you know

i i've seen like i've also you know i this is not me being a bummer or anything like that but i have seen what happens when people um that's the best way to put it i do think that like there's certain um i don't just mean interacting with the paranormal or anything like that but i know that sometimes people what do they say where energy goes where attention goes energy flows and so the darker spectrum of reality is somehow for a lot of people more enticing than like in other words there's something a little more tangible in connecting with forensic files or something like people have a natural pull towards this part of reality and you know you make horror movies you know that we love it and uh but i feel like sometimes you can get sort of

Dead parking lot, Grateful Dead parking lot, just because somebody's wearing tie-died, I don't mean they're not a piece of shit, man. And like, you're going to, you know what I mean? In this spiritual realm, it's the Grateful Dead parking lot. Yeah, they're going to sell you acid, but guess what else they're going to fucking do? They're going to, like, end up taking everything you own by the end of the night because that's what they do when people show up at the Grateful Dead concert to get acid. They get you high. They take your money. This hippie tried to take our fucking car.

by the end of the night after he'd taken all our money he got us the best ass it ever after he took all our money all our money gone took everything that we had that he could possibly take and he did it in the brilliant little steps he's done this before is this in the morning he's like you guys why do you give me your car he just asked why not he already took everything else so what i'm saying is similarly there is a when you go to a grateful dead show there is a kind of like oh my fucking god this parking lot is amazing people are juggling fire look over there they're openly selling nitrous right and within that sort of exuberant wow this is a new thing there's this opening to somebody who looks like charles manson is taking everything you own and that's so i i do i do think some people end up getting unlucky in their initial forays into the place and they do make contact and they get fucked up I'm just saying you can get fucked up you of course you can but you can get fucked up by people and I think it's my point is that it's yeah sure be fair warning but that's the beginning of

every grip war friend but you can also get a bad Uber driver you can also get on the wrong L train you know you can I mean is it you know it's yeah but you get out of the Uber your driver doesn't follow you into your fucking house and throw a coin out of your ceiling. And I think, yeah, those stories about like, you know, the conjuring and all that shit, like those, those are very rare those types of situations. And they tend to be people who are experiencing some kind of other trauma, some terrestrial trauma, you know, is, you know, if you're, again, bringing it back to people that these entities are as varied and complicated as people are. And if you are a person who is, you've done the work to be whole, to not be someone that's easily victimized or prayed upon, I think that extends to the unseen world as well.

And let me tell you, not a lot of us has done that work. And when, and this goes into a lot of different. Look at Judeate, look at like, I read that the high priest would go to the Holy of Holies in the temple in Jerusalem. Is in Jerusalem? them, wherever the temple is, now it's just the wall, but there's a holy of holies there. And the high priest could go in there once a year, I believe. And when you went in, do you know what they would do?

Tie a rope around his waist, because there was something that could happen where you go in there and just die. And they wanted to be able to pull his body out. It's like Chernobyl, because you can't go in there to retrieve the corpse. So if he falls over dead

from whatever the fuck is going on in that place that you could like guess you aren't pure enough and then like we'll try again next year who's the next high priest not a lot of hands going up but this I'm saying and again I don't know why I always do this

I'm the fucking party pooper of all time but I just feel like from my own personal experience with it and having seen what I would call negative miracles happen that there

listen man if you're going to go do a surgery wash your fucking hands and make sure that whoever's doing a surgery on you doesn't have shit all over their hands and guess what that to contextualize what we're talking about there was a time where there was a saying a gentleman does not wash

his hands meaning your doctor who is just doing an autopsy would come and deliver your baby with his hands covered in corpse muck and the infant mortality and the mortality of mothers was so high because of just a lack of basic hygiene because they didn't understand sterilization practices. And what you're talking about, I think, is very similar to the discovery of germs. People didn't know there was germs.

That's a great analogy. No fucking idea. What are you saying? The little creatures that we can't see that get in your mind and make you sick. Shut up. It's witches, you dumb shit. And it's like, no, there was a whole unseen universe that was discovered. And now when you go to get some medical procedure, you're not going to get sepsis because they understand how to do sterilization.

It's a good analogy insofar as germs are invisible force that affect you. But it's a bad analogy insofar as germs by their very definition are bad for you. There's no good germ. I don't think. There's anything. If we use the word germ, it means it's bad for you. I mean, gut bacteria. Do we call those germs?

I do, because I'm an idiot. I want to come back to this idea. So you, so you, you know, you've said a few times I make horror films, and yes, I do, we do make horror films. I actually really don't like that word because it's, this is something that I've really come to feel quite passionately about is to, to encounter the otherworldly, the surreal. the other world, is it is scary, but that's just one color. And it's getting back to this thing of something being scary doesn't mean it's dangerous. What I think is a much better word to describe the paranormal is awesome. And I mean that the literal meaning of it is filled with awe.

And part of experiencing awe is scary, but it's also. powerfully beautiful at the same time and and that is what awe is right is it's something so much bigger than you um and it's a it's a awe is a religious feeling right and it's so so i horror suggests that all of this stuff is threatening right and it's and it's not and it's so just i want to push back on what you're saying i accept your pushback sir pushback accepted if by your what you're if you're saying yeah there's a dangerous unseen entities out there, right? And I'm saying, okay, but work on not being someone that nefarious

intelligences want to prey on, right? But by your system, you wouldn't leave the fucking house. I mean, you wouldn't, because by the way, cute, there's bad humans out there too. Are you going to never interact with anyone? I try not to. That's why it's all, it's all on Riverside. I'm actually in a sub-basement of my house. Josh has to go through a decontamination chamber before he comes in here.

Spiritual am for the germs. Both. We sage him and then we spray them down. No, I get it. I love your, I love it. And I need people like you in my life, man, because this is just my habit. My habit is to make everything all creepy. And I do, like especially with Mandy.

I mean that's when you're talking about like it's this place it's it's tender the movie's incredibly tender magical beautiful Garden of Eden level lush it is a perfect way of conveying that realm that we all have sent since we were little littles the feeling of like no I know this is real I know this isn't just so and what and what is that place in Mandy i can tell you what it is what is it it's it's love like that the the movie mandi lives inside the nucleus of love it's it's and and a part of love is loss which is very painful but you can't experience loss without love i mean there's a reason why and this is all credited to panos i take no i have no authorship over any of this i'm observing a master at work but is you know there's a reason why that horror movie ends with him remembering the moment that they met at the bar, right? It's like, like it's, you know, it's, um, the, the, the movie radiates intimacy.

It's all about intimacy. The dangers and rewards of intimacy. That's what I don't want my heart broke. That's me. A little fucking pussy. I'm going to go summon a demon now. Listen, I'm running out of time. I got to get back to my family.

Daniel, this, we must do this again. This was of joy. And, you know, I'm not going to bore you with this, but after we talk, because I've been playing on the podcast, I will play some of these fucking creepy tapes I have. I would love to know what you think about that. I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to, like, weigh you down on this shit. But it's something happened yesterday on the podcast that just creep, very creepy. Yeah, I love to. Tell me every way that people can connect to Spectrevision.

And I know that there's just a lot of stuff that needs some signal boosting that I'm honored to signal boost. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Well, and it's all, you know, I think on the heels of this conversation, everything I'm about to share with you is very much born of these types of philosophical, you know, quick. Well, the podcast network Spectrevision Radio, just go to SpectrevisionRadio.com. Everything is there. we've also so we have this comic book series

coming out called High Strangeness that we're doing with Oni Press the incredible privilege of they allowed me to write the five narratives and then partnered with very, very skilled writers and illustrators. And basically what we set out to do is because

the people who run that company are weirdos like us is that, you know, they said, you know, do you want to do something? I said, I would like to create the most accurate representation of how the paranormal works that has yet existed in popular media that's the goal right and and so a big part of that is it's absolutely confounding you know there's never clear resolutions with any of these things and it's why you know everything on the discovery plus channel is just fucking lie it's like you know that you don't there is no answer there's

never an answer and so so high strangeness the first episode excuse me the first um issue comes out in October and it's five interlocking stories that touch on different elements of the paranormal. The protagonist is inspired by John Keel. Inspired by who? John Keel, who wrote the Mothman

Prophecies, yeah. Our movie Ebony and Ivory is currently out from Jim Hosking, who directed the greasy strangler. And then in September, our movie Rabbit Trap opens, which is about the fay, about the fairies.

no way really yeah yeah and it's and it is um yes it's an it's an incredibly beautiful powerful experience um the movie was at sundance the young filmmaker named brin cheney dev patel and rosy mccul are in it wait say that again of course you're fading out in this part say go back two sentences describe it again please and josh let's edit into this i don't know why you're fading out when you're like pitching the film you just so i'm sorry did you just the last bit start with describing about fairies to say the rabbit trap which is okay um in september our film rabbit trap opens which is um it's it's about the fay it's about the fairies uh it's based very very accurately on on celtic fairy beliefs and and i don't believe there's ever been a film that

has represented the experience of the fay this accurately um and to death pettel rosy mccuin are in it. And it's kind of like if you took, it's set in the 70s. It is a, it's a, a supernatural film about sound. It's about, um, it's about a young couple who the, the, they make experimental electronic music. They leave London and go to the, did you make this for me? This is like a dream movie. Are you serious? I mean, that's how we felt when we got the pitch. Um, she's loosely based on Delia Derbyshire. So it's like BBC Radiophonic Workshop type mute.

And her husband is her field recordist. So they're living out in this ancient wood and Dev goes out and he because this kind of modern equipment has never been in this forest before, he records a sound

that humans are not meant to have and brings it back to the studio and it unlocks a lot of things. It's, really great yeah oh my god that is so cool man and that is so funny i have so many synthesizers and dude do you really oh god i have a pile of modular synthesizers you wouldn't believe it man

i love them it's why it's my it's one of my hobbies i just sit in my studio like what's that yeah i don't know the word play is the right term for modular synthesizers when you're putting chords in and trying to come move with the divine through a bleeps and dude let me tell you that movie's dead on because sometimes shit comes out of those things and you're like what

the fuck and you know you know what you're doing or why it's happening where it's coming from it's crazy I'll tell you something that happens my ketamine tealer and my synthesizers off forever no longer by the way that was in LA I'm a dad now I don't do ketamine anymore

I feel like I have to say that and that's true oh my god i can't wait to watch that can you get me a screener yeah i can't yes you're the best man this is one of my favorite podcasts at a long time thank you so much and i just had a bishop no offense bishop wow well i can't yeah that's i don't know what to say to that um this was awesome man thank you i feel like i could i'm also exhausted i'm going to go sleep now yeah i'm not i'm not gonna go i'm gonna go get some blood and make a panorama see if i can contact old smoky thank you so much daniel thank you duck in all right that was daniel noah everybody definitely check out rabbit trap i am as soon as i finish recording this outro i'm gonna be annoying him until i get

a screener of that movie tune into specter vision radio check out high strangeness coming in from press and follow him on all his socials. What a cool guy, huh? We're going to have him back on for sure. Thank you so much for listening or watching. I love you. I'll see you next week.