Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 726: DTFH Live from Skankfest

Episode Date: December 6, 2025

Live from Skankfest New Orleans with Tom O'Neill (author of CHAOS: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties), Kurt Metzger, and Greg Fitzsimmons! CHAOS is now a documentary on Netflix! Click to watch Chaos: The Manson Murders, or get the book, CHAOS: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties. Go see Greg Fitzsimmons live! You can find all of his upcoming dates on his site, GregFitzsimmons.com. This episode is brought to you by: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/duncan and get on your way to being your best self. Head to TrueClassic.com/DUNCAN to grab the perfect gift for everyone on your list! Check out squarespace.com/DUNCAN for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use OFFER CODE: DUNCAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Welcome, everybody. It's great to see you. And this is an incredible episode that happened because of my friend, the brilliant comedian Greg Fitzsimmons, who happened to be at Skank Fest, which is by far my favorite comedy festival ever. Go next year if you can. It's such a blast. Like, I don't know. I honestly, I've never really enjoyed comedy festivals. But it is the most insane why. wild party. It happened in New Orleans. And as it turns out, Greg was there with Tom O'Neill, who happens to be his friend and neighbor. If you don't know who Tom O'Neill is, you probably know his book, Chaos, Charles Manson, the CIA, and the secret history of the 60s. Tom O'Neill is so fucking cool. And in this episode, we talk about his incredible book, about Manson and the CIA. Also joining us on this live episode of the DTFH is the brilliant comedian Kurt Metzger. Check out his podcast, Derp with Kerk. This is a mega episode of the DTFH and a huge thank you to Skank Fest for filming and recording the whole thing for me.

Also, just because it's the nature of a live podcast, I guess the audio is kind of fucked up in the beginning of this. So my apologies for that, but it gets better in like a minute and a half. I'm sorry about that, but now everybody, please welcome to the DTFH, Tom O'Neill, Kurt Metzker, and Greg Fitzsimmons, live from Skankfest, New Orleans. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you guys so much for being here. This is going to be the first. live taping of my podcast the Dunkin Trussell Family Hour that I've done like five or maybe eight years so can I just I'm gonna just start the podcast and if you guys could give me a giant roar when I say where we're coming from that would be awesome so welcome to the Dunkin Trussell Family Hour podcast being recorded live at the Legion of So Skanks Festival in New Orleans. We're at Skake Fest.

Holy shit. I got to tell you, man, I got so lucky with this episode because my stupid plan was. because my stupid plan was, like, try to find, like, a hudu priestess to do some magic up here. But I procrastinated and DM some lady at, like, 3 a.m. on Wednesday, and she's, like, didn't write back. Like, fuck that guy. But as it turns out, I've got the best lineup ever. And how many of you have read that book, Chaos, about Charles May. The author is here with us tonight.

Tom O'Neill is here. Holy shit. We are going to go deep into some CIA M.K. Ultra cult talk. And who better to get us in the mood for that than my first guest, everybody, a giant round of applause for Kurt Metzger, everybody. Let him hear at Kurt Metzger.

Sit here. How you doing, man? Oh, man, I'm excited, Duncan. It's a mystery boys fucking caper. Well, they don't know what that is. This is another announcement we're making. I guess you've talked about it. I've talked about it a little bit.

Kurt and I have started our own podcast on YMH, the Mystery Boys. And so keep your eye out for that. It's about positivity. Yep. And solving mystery. Yeah, positivity. That's right. And we actively combat the scourge of misinformation that is taking over the internet.

Everything we say is verifiably 100%. It's like, hey, what's this adrenachrome about? Oh, it doesn't exist. Yeah, it's not real, guys. There's no such thing as adrenachrome and Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in prison. Now. I just want justice for Jeffrey, and I've always been clear about that. Yeah, yeah, for sure, and I'm so happy Maxwell is in a minimum security prison

because those fucking monsters, what they did to that beautiful woman, it's really sad. I know, with them big-ass titties, joking around the yard, doing yoga. I would have sucked on her feet for a day straight. I wish her well. I wish her well. Now, I got to Also, we have on this podcast One of the best comics of all time I'm lucky to call him my friend

And Tom wouldn't be doing this without him Everybody, a giant round of applause for Greg Fitzsimmons, everybody Let him here, Greg Fitzsimmons is here The Fitz-Dogg, that's right And now everybody Please give the biggest gang fest round of

applause for someone who wrote the best creepiest fucking book on Charles Manson of all time everybody a giant round of applause for Tom O'Neill everybody let him here Tom O'Neill how you doing Tom

how you doing Tom I think man I listen I couldn't like we'd already talked a little bit and then Later, Greg's like, you know, you're talking to you, right? He wrote the book, Chaos. Fuck, are you kidding me? That is, that is, I remember, it's one of those books.

You're on a list, dude. You better watch your ass. Not, Tom is on mini-list. It's like mini-list, because your book... The nine-inch nails guys probably hate you. I think so. Greg, how did you end up being friends? with Tom O'Neill? Tom was my neighbor in we lived in Little Italy on Mulberry Street in New York

back in 93 I moved in and we lived next door to each other for years and he I saw him as a journalist writing different pieces entertainment journalism and but he was the real deal and so then we moved out to California we moved three doors away from each other in in Venice Beach and I saw him people say like it took him 20 years to write this book and people go oh it took me 20 years to write a book yeah you masturbated 8000 times like he did he did but he also you can do both just right that's right one hand it's weird you're only using the keys on the left side of the board which is unusual but you can get very proficient at it but he would write every fucking day I would walk past his apartment and he'd be sitting there and if he wasn't there

He was driving a car I gave him into the desert to interview some LAPD officer on his deathbed. He was finally willing to talk about the case. So, Tom's been one of my best friends for 35 years. And, yeah, he's the best. Woo! That's nuts you have a connection like that, Fitzdog. That's nuts you have a connection like that of actual, like, that's one of the most thorough, well. Tom, you.

Can you talk a good input there, Kurt. That was really awesome. That was great, Kurt. Tom. I think the story of how you ended up getting sucked into the Manson Vortex is crazy. That was the name of my punk band in high school. Manson Vortex? Can you talk about how it happened?

How it started? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was not planned, just kind of like this podcast. podcast. I only met him two nights ago, I think. That's right. And we said, looks like the mystery boys got another mystery on our name. That's right! Yes!

If it takes three months or 20 years, the mystery boys. We're on the case. I was very happy to come on. But I began this in 1999, and I got a call from an old editor of mine that I'd worked with at another magazine for many years, asking me to do a piece for magazine that she had just moved to called Premiere Magazine which was a film magazine and she said I want you to do a story about the Manson murders that this story would commemorate what was going to be the 30th anniversary of the crime and I said I'm not interested I'd never read Helter Skelter what can be done

that's new about this and she said you want to come on the mastead here and you have to show them to one feature, I'll get you under contract. She and I had worked at another magazine, and everybody at the top went over there, and the freelancers who were contributors, you know, we needed contracts, were all waiting, and it was kind of like, do this, or you're not going to get the job, so I did it reluctantly. It was supposed to be a three-month gig. And in that conversation, I mean, I still have PTSD about this. Yeah, it's the Gilligan's island of books. You know, she said, what's, what's interesting about a 30 years later? What hasn't been written about it? And she said, you'll find an angle you'll always do. And she said,

Why don't you begin by trying to figure out how it changed Hollywood? Because when these murders happened in August of 69, you know, I shouldn't assume people might not be even familiar with what they are. No, I don't know what you're talking about. So on August 8, 1969, Charles Manson, who had a group of hippies

that he lived with at the Spawn Ranch outside of L.A., sent his followers to a house that he was familiar with and told them to just kill everybody in the house and leave witchy signs. And the people in the house were Roman Polanski, the director's wife, Sharon Tate, who was eight and a half months pregnant, and her friends, Vojekvorkowski and Abigail Folger,

who'd been house sitting there while both Roman was in London scouting locations for a movie called Day of the Dolphin that he ended up never doing. What was it called? John Lilly, Day of the Dolphin. Oh, that's going to send you off, probably. Well, okay, even without John Lilly,

even without that. Yeah. Because, I mean, they had some handjob in a dolphin to see if you could teach him to speak English, and... No, I know when I get a handjob, it does not improve my English. I could told John Lilly that.

I make dolphin sounds, Greg. That's right. Okay, wait, wait. Hold on. Tom, not to get completely diverted into John Lilly, but just let's stop for a moment. Can you tell people who John Lilly was? Some people definitely don't know who that was. Yeah, he was a psychiatric drug researcher who was studying communications between dolphins.

And he invented the flotation tank, and he loved ketamine. You know that, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He loved it at the end after all his life of, crimes. He loved it in the beginning. It's a dissociative of it associates you from the trauma of the evils you purchase. I hope you don't start saying bad things

about ketamine man because it's a wonderful drug. The sunken place I love it. I'm talking about John Lewis. The sunken place. Have you guys seen weapons by the way? It's the white man's get out. That's my review. Finally! Finally!

Well, what's interesting about John Lily, aside from his dolphin research, this is what's really weird, is in one of his books did you read the book where he talked about how he had all these visions on ketamine and a flow tank where

an alien intelligence communicated with him and told him that artificial intelligence was going to take over planet Earth that that was coming and that we had to do something to stop it. This was long before

AI. I mean, also, he was jerking off dolphins. So, you got to do the math there. I don't know. I don't know. First of all, the dolphin had a name. His name was Peter. Peter the dolphin. Say it. Peter. The dolphin was a lady, actually. I know. His co-ed had been

made him more compliant with the experiments. You just give them a little bit of a handy in the submerged dolphin. Dolphins are horny. You don't have to work. They'll fuck you. Well, okay. They've got a blowhole. You don't need to fuck him. No, dude. Don't. You remember Rustin joke about that?

No. Don't fuck them in that hole. But if you do, hold on. Oh, I got unlaid at a wedding, telling them that in Hawaii to some... Some jig was down, and she had an arm on my shoulder.

I was like, I know a good joke they'll get in this town. Kawai. No, they have to worship a pineapple as a god and shit. They don't... But, you know, I think mentioning John Lilly, it does paint a picture

of the... culture at the time. People were injecting themselves with ketamine. Fucking dolphins. This was, what, 60? No, he was a pioneer in ketamine research. Yeah, yeah. And dolphin fucking else. I never heard that word

unlaid before. Yeah, no, yeah. I've never talked my way into pussy. I've talked myself out of pussy only in my life. I've never once talked it into, you got to get out of the way of the sales what their daughter is at the whiz. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by Better Help.

I got a big old family now, and let me tell you, I can't, like, there's no way that I could be the person I used to be during the holiday. because that person used to be somebody who would just get hammered and try to drink through the holidays, not in a festive way either, but just in like, I hated them. I hated everything about them. Christmas music, Christmas trees, Christmas lights, Christmas cheer, Christmas consumerism, the weather, the holidays, the days off, all of it. Like, I can't even explain to you. how I would hear a Christmas song on the radio and she's like fucking turn that. I was in really depressed, I guess is what I'm trying to say during the holidays.

And so for those of you out there, for the holidays who are experiencing not what to you probably seems like some kind of garish, ridiculous consumerist hell ritual. for those of you out there are looking at the world right now and wondering why you chose to incarnate during this time period. For those of you who are, for lack of a better word, the Grinch, and by the way,

the Grinch probably had seasonal effective disorder or whatever it's called. He fucking needed some of those lights, shinness. Grinch needed better help, basically. Listen, you want to give yourself a great Christmas gift, especially if right now

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I'm not saying it's going to make you like Christmas music again because a lot of it sucks. Especially like, what's still with this sexy Christmas music? What is that? Why, what's the, why, why I hate, I still hate horny Christmas songs. Well, I, I, I don't want to hear about, like, you humping on Christmas. Like, nobody does. So let's get rid of those.

Sorry, better help. You don't have to make turning into a recluse and hiding from the world your holiday tradition. You could actually find a new holiday tradition in, better help could be that why not make therapy part of your christmas seriously you know i there's no reason you can't enjoy home alone you know this doesn't have to be so dark i'm talking to me a few years ago you can hear the bell again got to read the polar express to know what that meant but if you lose the christmas spirit you can't hear the bell could be a hearing issue sorry better help get therapy Better help is great because you could do it all online.

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at betterhelp.com slash Duncan. That's betterhelp.com slash Duncan. Thank you, BetterHelp. Also, they said when a customer says no, what they really mean is, I need to know more. That's true. And you can carry that through all areas of life. Obviously, it was a weird time that these murders happened. So keep going with the story. I forgot where I was. You're talking about, he was off, like, trying to make this movie about John Lowe?

So Roman was out of the country. Sharon had just come back from making her last, what she didn't know was her last movie at the time. And long story short, four of Manson's followers went to this house at the top of Bel Air. And if you saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, you might be a little. little bit familiar with the story. And everybody was brutally murdered. And, you know, hundreds of stab wounds, blood writing left on the walls. And then the next night, Manson sent them to another house and they killed a middle-aged couple from Los Felais. And nobody knew who had committed these.

I used to live by that house. Oh, did you? Yeah. And there were people who lived there during that time who talked about how all of a sudden, in the neighborhood, Oh, yeah. These hippies were wandering around, and they were doing what Manson called creepy crawley. Can you talk about what that was? Yeah, they would go into a house while people were asleep. They'd break in, and they wouldn't steal anything. They would just move the furniture around, and they called a creepy crawley.

Creepy crawley, man. It's such a hippie work. Creepy crawly, damn. We just like to squirm around on the bathroom floor. their deodorant. It sounds like always sunny. I want to play night crawlers. I mean, aside from the murders,

that is one of the more, that's one of the, it's spooky, it's spooky, man. Yeah, well, they did a lot of things. Like, they would reenact the crucifixion with Manson on a cross. What's all wrong with that? I never.

They didn't use Filipino. I, I, I, okay. That's a, that's a misnesty. Ha ha, ha! They do do that. You guys like that, T.L. So, how did the, like, how would a typical Manson crucifixion go down? Well, a lot of people weren't sure whether he actually really did it or whether he had programmed his followers when they were tripping on LSD.

He'd give it to them for consecutive days, whether he programmed them to believe that they saw him crucified. I promise you he had them crucify him, because I've been on enough acid where I've been like, I wonder what it feels like to hang on a cross. And I'm sure he convinced them to do it.

Like, definitely, they did, I don't know if they nailed his hands in. They probably tied his hands. They probably tied him up, yeah. You ever think about how you can't crucify yourself? Yeah. It's impossible. Like, you need a friend.

Yeah. Well, his followers believe that he, they had seen him raise people from the dead, raise animals from the dead talk to animals I talk to animals all the time did the animals answer it? It should have gone first in the list

it's talk to animals I get that dog out of here I do that after the late show Friday in the Midwest a lot talk to the animals which state specifically there's a lot of people here from a lot of places I want to insult the people from Indiana

okay fair that's fair So, but it seems like what happened is you began researching this. Oh yeah, back to that, and I'm going to keep it short. So I got this assignment. I interviewed the prosecutor who put them away and wrote the best-selling true crime book of all time to this day, Helter Skelter, Vince Bouliosi. And I started finding holes in his narrative. And what was supposed to be a three-month assignment turned into a 20-year odyssey.

and it's horrible. I mean, I literally lost. He fucked up that bad, dude. I did. No, I did. Not you, him, Bill Giosi. But I like put Premier Magazine out of business because I brainwashed the editor-in-chief

to believe that I was on a noble crusade and he believed everything I was finding out. And they paid me for, I think, 18 months to just report this one story and they were going to do a single issue devoted to it until the corporate overlords that had Hachette, which owned the magazine, fired Jim, and because he had spent so much money on this. And they thought he'd lost his mind, I'd lost my mind, and the new guy that was hired by

the corporation said, you've got to turn that story in, you know, in a month. You've been working on it at that point for almost two years. And long story short, I got a book agent, and he said, I'll get you out of your obligation to the magazine and we'll do a book. and pay the magazine back by giving them the first excerpt from the book. And he said, how long were you taking? I said, it was just another

year or two. Wow, 20 years. What are you, Georgia, Martin? This is your winds of winter. Yeah. Greg, so, you know, this is almost a trope. It's like the

writer goes insane. Like, you know, and I'm sure there sounds like just good journal. that you should do with an important story. It's true, but at some point when you're like, no, you don't understand, man, I've found something more out about the mansiver. That's exactly how it was. People are going to get worried.

Were people worried about you? Did you have friends who were like, oh, come on, man. Greg, did you... I honestly, no, no, no. Honestly, Tom would... The book came in chunks, and he would uncover a certain chapter, not specifically a chapter,

but a chapter of the story. And we'd be having dinner, or We'd be having, you know, hanging out late night at my house with the, we have a close group of friends. And he would update us. And every time he did, we went like, fuck, yeah, man. Keep going. Like, we never thought for a second that there wasn't going to be a book that came out of it. This is before podcasting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. But you, so you had like the classic, like, maybe one of the best things that can happen to a journalist and the worst things that can happen. You actually found a place you're not supposed to. go. Right. You had I can never say his name. Vincent Bugliosi. The G is silent. Bulliose. And if you said a hard G,

he would just get furious. One of them... Red flag! Red flag! Exactly. He's insane. So, but can you talk about what we talked about the first night here

when he started getting weird with you, when he was... So what happened was I found out that he had taken shortcuts at trial. That was a little stuff. And then I later found out that he had actually misrepresented and

withheld evidence from the defense and suborn perjury. He had created a completely false narrative, which isn't so bad for the book part, but he did this in front of a jury where five people's lives were at stake. They all got the death penalty. and they were sentenced to death after the trial,

but the California State Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty a few years later. That's why none of them were executed. But he took really serious liberties with the truth, and when I started finding that out, he started tracking me because he knew what was happening. What is he? Israel? Yeah, practically. No. Cut that out.

Please, cut it out. Dave Smith is already here. The drones could... It was weird. At one point, he gave Tom a pager. I was like, what? Wait, what year was it, though? This was Manson's pager.

Why would he... What do you give you a pager? I was a joke about the Lebanese. Oh, I thought he really did do that. Because the Milkman story made me think anything's possible, you know? Look, there's a reason why I'm on the edge here. Of the table. We're all on the edge, man.

Yeah, the mystery boys stay up all night solving mysteries, dude. But, you know, so suddenly you're at his house, right? Well, first, he was one of the first interviews I did before I knew any of his malfeasance in the case. I thought he was heroic. I read the book for the first time. I'm like, wow, it's an amazing read. It's a terrifying story. And he agreed to talk to me.

He hadn't done an interview for about five or ten years at that point about the case. After he convicted these people, he went on to this illustrious career as a true crime author. He wrote books about cases. He became a defense attorney and then write books about those cases and wrote a whole bunch of books. And he tried to put Manson kind of behind him for a while because he wanted people to recognize them for other stuff. Oh, my God. What kind of psycho is like, I need more? and just I'm the guy that brought Manson in.

I mean, the ego is out of control, but he agreed to talk to me, and I spent about six hours at his house in like the second or third week of my reporting, and it was great. I mean, we sat in the house, his wife served me Italian cookies and coffee, and we talked.

Oh, okay, can I stop you there? And this is way, this is too much detail, so forgive me, but, you know, you walk into someone's house. Yeah. And you get that initial house smell. Yes. You know what I mean?

No, a house smell? Yeah. You know, the house smell, it's a loft. It's like, it's like if a house had balls. Yeah. It's the smell of a house. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah.

Like, and I know this sounds so, like I'm being, like, I know exactly what you're talking about. You don't remember what his house smelled like? Um, no. Like a nice of gravy? No, I mean, he'd have, they were Italian Americans and my mom's Italian, so she did what my mom would have done if somebody visited. She put these Italian cookies out and got a really good coffee. My mom's Italian, too. That's exactly what they did.

Where's your dad? Irish. Oh, okay. That's classic Goodfellas right there. Were there any, like, pictures on the wall? Like, anything related to, like, not that he would have. Well, the first thing he showed me, he had a shelf of the first editions of every, he republished the book years and years because it was selling, so he'd put a new

afterward. Jesus Christ! I mean, it was a money machine. for him. And I don't hold begrudge him for that. I just begrudge him for lying about what happened in the... That would be a great movie, just you and the hero guy that you think is a hero

and then just finding out how off it is. Yeah. That's the whole movie. That's exactly what happened. So we went out to lunch and then after lunch he gave me a tour of... What did the restaurant smell like? I'm sorry, it was such a bad question.

I'm sorry. It's the most important question. You're right to ask it. Mystery boys! But he, we went back, we went to lunch and he gave me a tour of all the historic sites that were local to the San Fernando Valley, like where the Manson family had a wallet that they stole from Rosemary, La Bianca. We go back to his house and we're sitting there for a couple more hours. I was with them for five or six hours. And again, it's a friendly interview, almost worshipful on my part.

And I find, but I wasn't getting anything from him. He'd done this interview for 30 years, and I did what journalists call the Hail Mary Pass, which is, I said to him, I go, Vince, you're giving me a lot of information. It's all great, but I need something new. I'm trying to find an angle to the story. Is there something that's never been reported that you know that you could share with me, and if you want, we could go off the record, meaning not for attribution? And I said, I'll turn off the tape recorders, and I say,

quarters because I always had two because if one fucked up and I was really about with technology and he thought for like literally like 30 seconds and he goes turn them off turn them off and it's probably the worst decision he made in his life. He's a narcissist for real. He just could... What a track

you did. No, you have no idea. You are a diabolical motherfucker. Did you know this this whole time? Yeah, that's crazy that worked. No, Greg, I mean about you. Oh yeah, yeah, it's one of my favorite things about him. I mean it's great work dude. Oh no, it's kind of standard. I mean any good journalist.

It was. Not no more. It ain't. Oh, no, exactly. No, nobody does this kind of stuff anymore. But then he told me something that was brand new, and it kind of changed a lot of stuff. And I don't, I, so I wasn't allowed to attribute it to him.

And then we jump ahead six years later. And in those six years, by him giving him that little bit of information, he opened this hole. Wow. first hole of about a dozen, but the first one was him... It's a lot of holes. Yeah, it was almost like, was he self-sabotaging because he felt guilty? Yeah.

And then six years later, well, a year later, I stopped talking to him because I knew so much about him, and he starts calling me and checking. Once is coming out, I'm hearing stuff, and then I found out that he was calling people after I interviewed them to ask what I asked. And then he would tell other people not to talk to me And he finally left me a voice message that I still have That said, hey, Tom, it's Ben. Can you play it? We'll turn the recorders off.

Do you have it? Is there any way you can get it? No, this would be a great movie, dude. I'm telling you just this section of it. I actually mean this. I will know if we can cut the live stream up. No, no, I don't have it on me. A journalist taught me this trick once. And so the student becomes the teacher. Nice. But the message was, hey, Thomas, Vince.

So I understand you're still working on this, and I haven't heard from you for a couple months, and you didn't return my calls. And he goes, but I've heard, I can't remember who it was from. He would always say he didn't remember it. I knew exactly who he was getting information from. He said, but I hear that you're questioning some of the tactics I took in the prosecution.

and, you know, you need, you know, as a layperson, you don't know why I took those choices, so you... A layperson? A layperson means... Not a civilian, a lay person, like he's a priest of some kind. Oh, no, no, I'm a lay person. No, I know. But his view of, like, you...

So he's saying you might not understand because you're not a lawyer or a prosecutor. And I want to be able to explain this stuff, so he was immediately trying to control what I was going to do, which is fair on his part. So I called him back. And I said, Vince, of course I'm going to give you time to basically rebut what I didn't say accuse you of. I was still trying to play the diplomat. I said, but I'm still reporting. So, you know, I'll get back to you probably in a month or two and it was six more years because it took me that long. Wow.

And my agent wouldn't let me take the book out. He wouldn't let me interview Vince with all my damning information until after I got a book contract because Vince is so powerful in publishing because of his sales of his books. And he knew, because I was sharing all my information with him at that point, how dangerous Vince was and how Vince would do anything to stop. You think he would have killed you? He would do something worse and that's in the book. I mean, he threatened to, I mean, he had a pattern of this because I found out that he had committed little of crimes before he became famous for the case

and when people caught him he would threaten to ruin them by using law enforcement to spread wrong information. Wow. This info will we fight against at the mystery police. We do fight against it. So he basically, he could have had you gangstocked. He could have just, he could have turned

the law. Yeah. He could have just... He was going to expose... He said he had information that I was a pedophile. Oh. And he was going to share it. So this was... So six years That could be a really powerful blackmail technique. I wonder if other people use that. Oh, yeah. You should look into that for your next book.

Luckily, though, believe it or not, I think I'm smarter than him. I do. I do. That dumb dago. I'm half. But anyway, so when this happened, we had First, I went to his house. Six years later, same kitchen, but this time, very hostile. And he had two tape recorders, and I had two tape recorders. No, this could be a movie, I'm telling you. That's so funny.

And he had a legal pad of notes and about ten books that he'd written, so he could read me the blurbs from the books, telling them, telling the world what a brilliant prosecutor he was. It was just you and him. No. All right, it's so fucking crazy. First, I called him six years after I'd started, and I said, Vince, I always promised you

I was going to come back to you and give you an offer to explain yourself. And he didn't return the call, so I had his home number. I called him at home, and he said, Tom O'Neill, I don't remember you. Who are you? And I knew that he'd been calling people that year.

And I said, I'm the one, then that's when he planted the seat of I'm going to harm you if you do this. He goes, I would talk to you, but I've heard horrible things about you, so horrible that I can't even, I don't even want to talk to you. And when I heard these things, I didn't believe that because I liked you. You seem like a nice person, but these things, I go, Vince, what the fuck are you talking about? He says like De Niro in the movie of this. I don't want to believe these things, but I heard powerful. Yeah, you're actually right, except he's too old now, but he would be good.

So anyway, then I go, I, long story short, he says this to me on the phone. And he says, so I won't talk to you. And I said, Vince, you really need to. You need to hear what I found. And he says, no, we hang up. Literally three minutes later, he calls me back. And he says, so the conversation we just had, I don't trust that you're not going to misrepresent it. So I want to have the conversation again.

But I want my wife on the extension, Gail, his long-suffering wife, so she can be my witness. What an asshole. Is she a public notary? Otherwise doesn't count. Tom, it's Gale I know you didn't turn the table quarters off So I said to him

I go well I'm alone in my Venice bungalow Fitz is probably playing Caesar's casino or something I can't drag him over to be my witness so May 13th to the 17th tickets at Fitzdog.com Brett Fitzsimmons, see him live coming up

I told you I told you I think the late show Friday's light So I said I'm going to record the conversation that's my witness. He said, that's fine. So he's like, Gail, are you on the phone? And she's like, yes, Vince. And then he said, so you called me and you said, I said, is this? I said, Vince, it's Tom O'Neill. You pretended not to know me. He said, I didn't pretend not to know you. I didn't remember until you reminded me. And I said, okay, and go, so you said,

we had to replay the conversation. What the fuck? It was insane. And then I knew, he still said he wasn't going to do it. I knew his ego and his fear of being exposed was too much to let me walk away without him knowing what I was doing, like everything. So he called me about a month later, or no, two weeks later and he said, I'm going to do

the interview with you. So come to the house. He said Gail talked me into it because she liked you a lot more than I did. Everything that came out of his mouth. There's no Gail. No, there's a Gail. There's no Gail. There's a

mummy in the attic with Cups of teen. So when I went to the house, he said, I'm going to do what we call an opening statement. Like, this is a trial, and you're not allowed to tape record it. But I want Gail here to witness it so you don't misrepresent it. And I said, well, a couple weeks ago, my witness was my recorder. He goes, that's not happening here.

I go, whatever, Vince. And I have to put a party dress on for this. So he gave me a half-hour opening statement where he went to. not being recorded officially. No, no. Actually, halfway through, I said, Vince, I need this on tape because you're just talking about how great you are.

I'm not asking you questions. No one will believe you. This happened if you don't have it. So he let me tape it at that point. And then at the end of that half hour, he said, Gil, you can go now. We'll talk and we'll be on tape. And she goes, I have a horrible headache.

I'm like, yeah, I bet you do. And I knew she hated him. I knew she'd filed for divorce against him five times Think about just blowing that, dude. Now, in the movie, I would have you bang her. Yeah. Like the pent-up tension. But, you know, you just, it's based on true events.

That's how it is in this business. You get it. I actually knocked on our door about six months ago to try to talk to her for the first time in, that was 2006, I think. But anyway, I finished it here. Just to tell you how crazy it was, so we talked for four hours,

and I put all my incriminating evidence up, and he would say, recorders off, turn the recorders off, and we turn the recorders off, and then he threatened me and say, you have no idea how much I can hurt you if you try to publish this. And then he would say things like, you're trying to destroy my legacy. And he would point at a portrait of him with his two kids behind him. And he said, this is my family. I love my family. Do you want to destroy that? And I said, Vince, I'm not talking about anything I did. This is all stuff you did. Yeah, you destroyed the greatest family of all time.

The Manson family, you piece of shit. They were going to make a new world, a better world. Here's the story of a man named Charlie who was bringing up three right, lice-ridden girls. All of them had sheets of acid. One of them shot Gerald Ford. Wow. The Manson Budge.

Why did one of them end up go on to shoot Gerald Ford? Well, she shot at him, but she didn't hit him. Squeaky didn't hit him. Yeah. Cute names. It still was very strange. She was out on the street. Yeah.

I guess, like. From the Manson family. Do you think if he hadn't cut corners in the investigation and the trial, is there some possibility Manson could have gotten off the hook? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck him. So we could have Manson could be performing here tonight.

He's dead. If the Beach Boys had any honor, he would have been with us tonight. You really believe that, huh? Like, Manson might not. So his whole narrative... I bet he wasn't that good. Oh, by the way, I think this is a good time. Can we play that YouTube Manson clip just so we can honor his memory?

Oh, wait, can you stop it real quick? This is a recommendation. I mean, I guess you shouldn't do this, but back when, you know, I'm a dad now. I don't take psychedelics like I used to, but my favorite thing to do when I was peaking on acid or on ketamine was to watch Charles Manson interviews. And I really recommend that because I mean that. Because, like, you know, like, when you take ecstasy and listen to EDM for the first time? Yeah. And you're like, I get it now.

Yep. That's what happens when you take acid and watch these. videos. Just trust, try it. I'm sorry, I shouldn't even brought that up. Go ahead and play this video. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by my friends at True Classic. Listen, Christmas is coming. And if you have people like me in your life, the only thing you need to get them is an amazing perfect t-shirt i'm telling you this is not like socks nobody wants socks nobody wants a bible but what we do want is a perfect soft shirt that's all nice perfect black shirt i've got so many true classic shirts in my closet it's the best i just reach for a perfect shirt and put it on

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Should I just look in his eyes? You just take it in, baby. Just stare into his little black eyes. It's okay if it's not working. Tell me some half-haired. Scientology, Charlie. Holy shit. Trophy hunting in Super Smash Brothers.

Let's play that. Here we go. Don't forget, we got to play that a tremendous preview. I think it's 618. 618. I could put a track record on it or I could put a computer on it. Come on down.

No, no, come on down. Get off computers. Get off tracks. If you got out of here, there are a lot of people who think you'd go start killing people again. Again. Well, you guys are misinformed, I haven't killed anyone. What about Shea? What about him? Well, what about him?

We got killed. Well, the word is, you killed him. Who is you stabbed him? Oh, word. What does it feel like to kill him? Word. Word is, that you're an old woman. Word is, you have turkey in the sky.

Word is. I don't know what word is. Somebody else tell you that. I didn't tell you that. Did you kill Shay? Hell no. Did you cut the human's ear off? Hell, yes.

I felt bad about it. Isn't the truth fun now when you can... Okay, okay, you cut his ear off. What did it feel like when you cut his ear off? Tell me about it. Come on. What did it feel like? Yeah. Well, I had done what he said for about 20 years.

I've done everything he told him. Okay, that's enough, but that's from the Charles Manson podcast. I didn't know the news had that many Dutch angles in it back then. So, so... Based on what you're saying, when he's like, I didn't kill anybody. It's cut off in a ear. You're...

You're really boogliosey that. Yeah, like, he's not lying. That's the crazy thing is he might not be lying there. He might... I just gave them the tool to kill. It's a basic amway deal. But that's not, I mean, like... That's the complicated part.

I do believe he deserved to be sent to prison and the followers for the crimes. I do believe he was responsible. They were horrible. What people... don't know is he had enablers. And that's where it goes in... Axel Rose. That's where we get to the craziest part of all. And this is, for those of you don't know, we've talked about this on the mystery boys. But... It doesn't come out yet, so they

didn't know at all. Ted Kaczynski, for those of you don't know, when he was, he got a scholarship to Harvard when he was, what, 16? And in Harvard, he underwent these horrific, uh, experiment. They didn't show that in Duggey Houser. No. No. Duky Houser was M.K. Ultrit. Well, how would you become a 16-year-old fucking doctor? It's true. I don't got to do no 20 years of research. You know that?

Dugiehouser, Kaczynski, Charles Manson, and not just like people who've done horrific shit, but what I think are Ken Keezy. And so many others were directly involved with these CIA experiments called MK Ultra, where we were in the Cold War, and we thought the Soviets were doing some kind of insane mind control technology. We were trying to keep up. and your book points in the direction that Manson might have been in some way involved. In other words, he was created. Maybe not

intentionally. We won't know. We may never know. Just like we may never know who Epstein worked for. Who Jeffrey Epstein. It's impossible to figure out about Epstein. Everyone should stop talking about it. Maybe a forensic historian. Could tell us who Jeffrey What are your, what's your feeling, though, on it? Because it feels like in the book, it's not like you can prove it, prove it. But what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, yeah. So my book took another, like, left turn about two years in. When I found out that Boulios, he had changed the official version. And he was, I was trying to figure out what was he protecting, what was he hiding? Why did he have to lie? I mean, why did he lie when I don't think he had to? And then I learned that he, I mean, I read the book, he completely stayed away from the year in San Francisco. Right after Manson was released from prison in 1967 in March, he violated his parole immediately in Los Angeles and moved to San Francisco without permission.

And instead of being sent right back to prison, which would have normally happened, they accepted him and gave him to a parole officer. who was doing drug research at a place called the Hayd Ashbury Free Medical Clinic, which opened in June of 67, which was at the birth of the Summer of Love in the Hayd Ashbury. And there's a lot to say about what happened that summer, but Manson, in under three or four months, transformed from this kind of petty con who had been in and out of federal institutions for half of his life at that point. From the time he was 13 or 14, he was committing crimes like stealing cars, and he would cross state lines, which made a federal crime. So he'd be in these juvenile detention centers, juvenile facilities, and then real prison

for becoming a pimp. And every crime he was convicted of always as federal, because when he was a pimp, he'd take the girls across state lines, sometimes just right over, and then he'd be back in the care of the federal government. So they release him then, and all of a sudden, by the end of the summer of 67, what, you while he's going to see his parole officer, Roger, who's looking the other way when he's committing crimes and getting arrested, but developing this cult

of young women followers who were, it began at like four or five, then it was six, seven, eight, who followed him around the hate, always walking behind him, never speaking unless he gave them permission to speak. The fattest bushes God ever created. But beautiful bushes. But, uh,

So I want to, and then he transformed into this cult leader that had these powers over people's behavior and choices that nobody had had before. So, okay, let me stop you there because this is one of the accounts I read, one of the things he would do with his followers, I'm sure you know. He would, you know, give them acid, he was an asset, and he would sit in. No, no, no, he wouldn't take acid. That motherfucker. Are you serious? Oh, yeah, yeah, he didn't take it. He would give them the acid he pretend to take it. but he was manipulating them while they were tripping.

Oh, man. Just when you think he can't get any cooler. But wasn't he given a meth, I thought, like not. No, yeah, so amphetamines, then he started combining them. Because this is not a good killer drug, but meth is. Yeah, but the doctors who worked at this clinic, a couple of them in particular, were experimenting on animals five years before and giving them, it was called aggregate experiments where they would put mice in these control situations and crowd them,

anticipating the crowding and density of what was going to happen in the hate, and give them amphetamines, and then they would kill each other, then they were trying to control the amphetamines by injecting them with LSD. At what point as a scientist, are you like, I've gone nuts. like when you I'll tell you up to when you are have puppy heads being stung by sand flies

in a fucking remember of the fatchy that's how we got Ozimping man you have to do that but you know I apologize I use it

I only use it from my dick but this I take it back the whole thing I think what your book gets at is you know who was crazier here Like, so sure, Manson's walking around.

He's got his cult girls who are walking behind him. He's giving him acid, not taking it himself. But then to study him, you have scientists overcrowding mice, giving them speed. Yeah. Then acid, try to find out what's going to happen to the hippies. Yeah. Like, who was- Naming him squeaky also, probably.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, so right before he, they left the hamps. hate in early 68 and moved migrated down to LA and at that point he was a guru who had complete control so I wanted to find out how he learned how to do what he did yes and bulliosi has this kind of fascinating paragraph in the last chapter of the book after they're convicted after they go to prison he said one of the lingering mysteries is how did Manson a barely literate ex-con who spent most of his life in federal institutions

learn how to get power over people as many as 30 or 40 people who would do whatever he said without asking, including committing murder against total strangers and then... It sounds like

war, like it sounds like a fucking president. It sounds like a president. Yeah. No, but that's, to me though, I mean that. This is like jumping to kind of where I wanted to go with And he was leaving that hint like a fucking asshole, like, ooh, can you solve the mystery? What a piece of shit.

But what you've... Finally, somebody said it. Thanks for speaking truth to power. Yeah, Tom. But something that's interesting to me about the Manson cult, and you've looked into other cults, too. Like, we talked about this. Like, you studied this, is it wasn't. point does a cult go from being a cult to just being this is how things are like if you look at like

for example manson's big crime he convinced people to kill people for him which is exactly what any government leader does every day that's a huge part of being president you convince people to go murder for you and i guess i'm curious your thoughts on what what distinguishes a cult like a Manson cult from default reality or the cult that we're all in. Aren't we just in? It's kind of interesting because during the death penalty phase, so they get convicted of murder all the first four who are in trial, man, no, five, Manson and three girls, four.

And then Watson was tried later. They get convicted, then they have the death penalty phase of the trial where the jury has to decide whether to have them executed or just, life in prison. And during that phase of the trial, their defense attorneys argued that this was like a war. And if these women who had now been convicted of killing for him did it, they were the same as the soldiers who at that time were in Vietnam killing people. And you can't make them responsible for something that they were brainwashed to do by their leader. So they used that Vietnam War analogy

but I think it's kind of important to say you brought up MK Ultra a little bit earlier MK Ultra was trying to create, I don't know if anybody even knows what it is. You guys know what M.K. Ultra is? They know. So M.K. Ultra was

started in about 1949 and it was a secret operation by the CIA whose ultimate objective was to create programmed assassins. People who could be programmed to kill without any recollection of being programmed and do it and have no memory of anything after the act.

Also spies and you could, like human eye followers, everything. You could jerk off on them, store your data. But one of the main, this is, I mean, it's really hard to do this in this kind of setting because it's so fucking complicated and layered. But one of the main MK Ultra research is. was a guy named Lewis Jolly and West called Jolly West who took a sabbatical in 1966

to go to the hate and study the hippies. Before anyone knew the hippies were coming there. And he brought up smells a lot too like you. You're talking about Operation Midnight Climax. Limass. Yeah, yeah.

What about Operation Dumbo drop dead? What is that? He killed an elephant with LSD and that was like his opening doors. He's the dude who killed an elephant with acid? Oh, yeah. That's jolly. Yeah. Tuscco. Oh, my God.

I had no... For those of you don't know, like, this is one of the... As an acid head, like, you just know that they gave a poor elephant a normal dose of acid. No, no, it was a massive dose. It was too much even for a big elephant.

How much acid... How much acid is too much for an elephant? I forget, because I'm so... about it's science, but it's a certain number of milligrams. That's like... Jamie, can you pull that up? Enhance. I think they did that when we

did it, too. You don't have a Jamie? No, but I... So yeah, he gives... They give a... They kill it. And that was a CIA experiment. That is fucking crazy. That West did in 1962 in Oklahoma and killed this poor

zoo animal because he was trying to learn about must I mean, West is a whole, it's why the book took 20 years. He was a very prominent academic and psychiatrist who was acute, when MK Ultra was exposed in 1976, 77, Jolly West was on the front page of the New York Times as one of eight academics that were alleged to have secretly worked for the CIA from the early 50s until 72, 73, conducting LSD experiments, mind control experiments on people. without their consent or knowledge in place, safe houses, academic institutions, prisons, Air Force,

and military bases. And he denied it. And he said, they approached me, of course, but I would never do something like that. He denied it until he died a year before I got the assignment.

Sure, I'd kill an elephant with acid, but I'd never participate in a weird experiment. Ever. Of course I killed an elephant with acid, but to watch people in a brothel on acid.

I pray you get that opportunity. sir? I'm jolly West. I would never do such a thing. A jolly old soul. That is... So West was given an office at the Hayd Ashbury Free Medical Clinic

to recruit subjects for his research. And he had what he called a laboratory disguise as a hippie pad on the same block as the clinic where he was siphoning people that came in and sending them there to experiment on.

And again, when he was exposed, he denied it. He went to his grave. Nobody was ever able to prove it. And I had a hunch that there was evidence in his. I actually, when his name popped up in my reporting the second year in as this mysterious character who was at the clinic when Manson learned how to do exactly what the CIA had been trying to do for at that point

about 17 years, I thought those parallels, they can't be coincidences. So I called, I actually called, I was going to interview him. This is crazy, but I had interviewed him five years before because he was an authority on celebrity stalkers, and I did a story on celebrity stalkers. I went to his office at UCLA. He was a dick.

He was late. He didn't even have a dialogue with me. It was like he was sitting in front of a class lecturing, and I never even transcribed the tape. He's not in that story. And then all of a sudden he pops up in this. I'm like, I interviewed that guy. I'll call him.

I found out he had just died. So I asked UCLA, he'd been there for 20 years when he died. Did he leave his papers to you? And they said, yeah, but they're not processed yet. And that could take a year or two. And I said, and I send this, honestly, I said, I have a magazine assignment and I've got to get this done like a month. Do you hear this sound?

It's a tape recorder turning off. But they processed the papers early for me, and I went there every day for a whole summer. Wow. And it was the worst, most tedious work like anybody could do. And there's a famous author named Robert Carroll who writes his book about books about Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson. And he's won Pulitzer Prize.

And his kind of motto is turn every page. You have to look at every single page because you don't know what you might miss. And I did that for months and I hated myself. I was broke and I was like, why am I doing this? But it was just something in my gut. And all of a sudden, I found this letter 12 or 13 pages long from 1953, from West to someone named Sherman Griffard in Washington. And it sounded like it was an outline for what became the M.K. Ultra program.

And I'm like, but Griffith, who's that? But that name does sound familiar. So I went home that night, and I have the one book that was written about M.K. Alter. There were two at that point. I had one of them called The Search for the Menchering Candidate by John Marks, who exposed the program in 76. What was M.K. stand for, by the way? It's just an acronym.

Nothing means anything. They would give these acronyms to... It's not Mortal Kombat? It's not what? Manzan? Mortal Kombat? No, no, sorry. It's not MindConf? But I went home.

Mortal Kombat, Mind Compf edition. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by Squarespace. Friends, the new year is coming. And look, I get it. When it comes to starting your own business, I don't know where you're at with that, but I remember back in the old days when I started realizing,

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I'm sorry if that sounds woo-woo, but it's true, true. And the next thing you know, just, I don't know, random coincidences start happening, synchronicities, affirmations from the universe that you're on the right path, but you've got to take the first step. And what better way to take it than to use Squarespace to build yourself a website? If you want the perfect website for whatever service you're offering the world, Squarespace has it all. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place.

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by going to Squarespace.com forward slash Duncan. Give it a shot. Write that stallion. around the field. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code Duncan to get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Again, it's squarespace.com forward slash Duncan. Use offer code Duncan to get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Thank you, Squarespace. So I went home that night and I saw a footnote in Marx's book that said, Sidney Gottlie, the mad scientist at the CIA who ran M.K. Ultra used the alias Sherman Griffard. So all of a sudden it was like, ping, bam, boom.

This doctor who went to his grave never being prosecuted or even investigated for this because they took his word had not only been involved in the program, he had helped Godlieb created, and then he was in the hate at the clinic that Manson came into every day when he had this miraculous transformation from this barely literate con into a guru.

It's crazy. It's called the process, and it works. It's imagine, it's wild thinking of Manson just going to that clinic. He's got syphilis or something. He's a regular guy like anybody else. No, his girls. His girls love a BD.

That's why he's like, yeah, my ladies, I don't know, they got those bumps again. I don't know. I think it's my fault. And someone from the CIA is like, you know what? I think I can help you build your confidence up. Come inside. It's crazy to think that. And surely, you must have been like, this can't be real.

Because to me, the implications are really terrifying, which is when did they stop? when I learned about his involvement with Jack Ruby and the JFK assassination. He was Jack Ruby's psychiatrist. Okay, that's our time for tonight, guys. I got kids. I got kids.

I got fucking kids, man. Don't go. Don't go deeper. Go deeper. No, I'm so sorry. No, I never had any because all I did was this. Well, that's another thing. It's like... Just a desolate battlefield of jizz-rags across his floor.

I don't feel... True, true. Don't need a mystery boy to solve that mystery. Don't forget the movie. I won't. Okay, so we're running out of time here, but... And there's no way to cover your book, because you...

And thank you so much for spending those 20 years. It is an incredible book. Nobody does real journalism, and it's bizarre that you did real journalism. But just for a second, we don't have a lot of time. And Kurt, yes. He has invested a lot of money in making one of the most incredible. Kurt Max Media, the media company, I started very recently, as you know.

Yeah, yeah, it's a good company. Yeah, Kerr Bank Media, a lot of good, great reporting so far from the festival. We have time. You guys, anybody want to ask a question? What do you got? Was it true Jolly West? Was it true Jolly West? involved with Timothy McVeigh.

Yeah, there's a journalist who says she has a source that put West in the cell with Timothy McVeigh as soon as he was taken into custody. And that's what West did with Jack Ruby, well, not as soon, but after, but then

when West left Jack Ruby after his first psychiatric evaluation to announce it in the preceding 48 hours, he'd had a psychotic break from which he'd never recover. Dun dun! Yeah, and he did. So I think it's, I know the journalist and I know her reporting,

she's not saying who are sources and until she reveals it, but I would not be surprised. Same thing with Jonestown. Wait, what? He was involved with Jonestown? Yeah, it's a network of networks, dude. Yeah, yeah. He was like a modern day, he was a zealig.

Every Patty Hurst. What? Oh, was the first psychiatrist, you know, Patty Hurst was brainwashed by a guy named Donald DeFries, Sincay, who escaped from prison because the guards turned the other way and he became the next manson. He started a cult called the SLA.

This guy's like the Forrest Gump of the CIA. You're going to find out, hopefully, what the same is. Hey, do you think this could be connected in some way to that furry that they say killed Charlie Kirk? I wonder if the zombie kid that's a furry. Take it easy on the furry community. I made a movie preview. Any more questions?

Right back here. Are the Jews behind all of this? Next question. Next question. Over here, we have a question over here. What do you got? I don't think the Catholics go in on it, you son of a bitch. Next question.

YouTube. Why? Subscribe on YouTube. Thank you. Wait, wait, say that again? 297 milligrams. What does that mean? And that is, that is like, that's enough acid to, that, that's, still an elephant?

That's what they say. It's in the book, get the book. Thank you for your research, sir. Any other questions? What do you got? I don't want to tell you, because I know where you're going. of that. Yeah. It wasn't Ruby.

Next goddamn question. Next question. I know where you're going with that. What do we go? I want to thank our sponsor Palantir once again for putting this together. Yeah, thanks. Thank you, Palantir. Thank you for the gift box. Making Skinkfest

possible. Palantir is one of the top sponsors of Skank Fest. Palantir, let us look at you. Thank you. I have a sponsor, Palantir. What's behind the ice wall? What? What's behind the ice wall on your mom's pussy?

The ice wall? The ice wall? I didn't know what to say because, look, George R. Martin is not done. You can find out yourself. You just have to learn to astrali, to do astral projection. Read, journeys out of the body. That'll teach you how to do it. Robert Monroe, another person who work with the CIA.

Okay. You guys, we got to wrap it up. You guys have been amazing. Now let's play this. And we have a, thank you. Thank you. Everybody, we're not going to leave yet, but just, could you all please give a huge round of applause for Tom O'Neill

for coming to skate, writing this book? Thank you, Tom. That was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. and none of this would have happened without Greg Fitzsimmons. Everybody, give it up for Fitzsimmons.

And of course, my blood brother, fellow mystery boy, give it up for Metzger, everybody. Let him! All right. And I am dying. Now, I want to do. Okay, this isn't done yet. I was hoping to be done with it by the end of the festival.

But I'm going to pitch this. to you right now this preview. It's like Mad Max, okay? The first one, if it was an Elvis movie, okay? But Elvis is Uncle Laser. I've made years to make this, and

you can just make it with apps now. I know this is rude to ask. Wait, I need to ask. I know this is rude. You did tell me how much did it cost to produce this? Because it's fucking nuts, and I know you are. Well, I've signed up twice for certain apps. because I didn't know how it worked, so probably a lot more than should. Yeah.

About like $400 a month? It's not that way. But look, this is, it's not done yet. All right. It's not done. I'm just saying, all right. Let's roll it. Can we roll the video, I say?

The Dark Gods rule the wasteland. They can take his dog. They can burn down his trailer, but when they messed with his short bus, they fired up the wrong laser. Now he won't stop. Until they say, Uncle Duke Laser is. Loud by the sword. Die by the laser. It goes on for quite some time.

Browellon. You know, and it's Bottle laser. That knows our part. Our part. Oh, here we get.

Yeah, it's not done. Thank you guys so much for coming out and let's give a giant round of applause for all the people who made Skank Fest possible. This has been the best one. Thanks for coming out. Good night. Thank you guys.