Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 771: Douglas Rushkoff

Episode Date: October 23, 2026

Douglas Rushkoff, philosopher, media theorist, and creator of Team Human, re-joins the DTFH with his genius brain!Listen to Doug's podcast, Team Human! Available wherever you like to listen. You can also learn more about Doug, and find all of his books & films, on his website: Rushkoff.com!Detroit family! Duncan is appearing at Mic Drop Comedy this weekend, October 23-25. We know it's Detroit vs. Green Bay on the 25th, but this is probably better! Click here to get your tickets now.This episode is brought to you by: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/duncan and get on your way to being your best self. Download Cash App today and make your money work for you. Click here to get started: #CashAppPartner Right now when you buy two months of BlueChew Gold you get the third FREE with promo code DUNCAN. You will also receive an additional 10% OFF + Free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card (https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement), Sutton debit flex card (https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/debit-flex-card-agreement-sutton), and Bancorp debit flex card (https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/debit-flex-card-agreement-bancorp). Cash App Green features, Savings, Direct deposit, Round ups, Overdraft coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.

Hello there. It's me, Duncan, and this is the Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast. And today, we are lucky to sit down with the genius mind of philosopher Doug Rushkoff. He's a media theorist. He is a philosopher. He is the creator of Team Human. He's got a great substack, a great Patreon. All the links you need to find him are down below. I'm telling you, whenever I'm feeling a little blue, Whenever I'm feeling a little on edge, I reach out to Rushkoff and invite him on the show, and I always walk away feeling better. This episode is no different. So everybody, get ready for an amazing conversation with a brilliant Doug Rushkoff.

But before we jump in, sorry, I got to do a plug. If you're in Detroit, won't you come see me? I'm going to be at Mike Drop Comedy this weekend. that is October 23rd, 24th, and 25th. And friends, guess what? We're not moving tickets on the 25th. That Sunday is looking real, real dark. Apparently, there's some kind of big game in town.

I guess many of you are prioritizing sports over your de de Trucelle. But if you're not prioritizing and you were thinking about coming to see a Sunday stand-up show in Detroit with yours truly. won't you buy tickets in advance so we can get a sense if anybody is going to come that Sunday. Otherwise, I might fold all the shows into Friday and Saturday. All right, everybody. That's my little plug.

Come see me at Mike Drop Comedy in Detroit. And now everybody welcome Doug Rushkoff to the DTFH. Doug Rushkoff, welcome back to the DTF. It's always good to see you. You got your Yotos behind you. You got the Laughley print behind you. thus solidifying your role as the coolest person in New York. There you go.

Thank you. How are you doing? I'm doing okay. You know, I'm fine. What? How dare you say that at the beginning of the show? You can't be fine. I'm fine.

I mean, it feels, you know, it's not quite as bad. It's not like, what was that Spielberg movie, where the guys like dragging the other guy through the in the in the the the big war one that the the big war and they at the beginning there's the giant scene on the beach and everybody's getting blown up and like tom hanks is dragging some guy and then the guy like is missing his bottom half and something i feel like around me it's like holy shit um what's going on here but um i've been i've been uh very locally, I've been okay with, I've been okay. I'm, I'm breathing through what's going on,

looking at sometimes what seems like nightmarish scenes around me. And just kind of taking on a new role of trying to, rather than fix it, I'm just trying to help metabolize this. Metabolize is a good word for it. And then what, so not to put you on the spot, but what are your methods for metabolizing? this uh the the data stream of doom well i mean one is realizing that it's a data stream of doom is really distinguishing between you know what what we media theory people call the figure and the ground you know the figure on the screen that's the figure climate change trump thing you know yeah that and the actual ground that that i'm inhabiting you know and it's not like there's not

pain and suffering in this ground, but the person on the sidewalk who I helped two nights ago, that's in my physical realm. That's like here. So one's distinguishing between the panic on the screen and the world as I'm living it, sort of the somatic present, you know, local reality that I'm in. and then looking at where can I do something and where can't I? You know, where can I intervene? And where is intervention really just an invitation to futility? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a very important question that seems to be getting muddled by the data

stream of doom for a lot of people. it's creating the, you know, they, what do they say, fight, flight or freeze. Yeah. And I think for a lot of people, it's creating a sort of frozen situation. That's what it's for, right? That's what it's for to keep you frozen and staring at the screen. You know, they're whatever, for whatever reason the company wants your eyeballs on that, you know, and it's not fair. It's like there is a child in Gaza whose hands are getting blown off, right?

Yeah. That's worthy of attention. Right. Yeah. It's worthy of attention. is it appropriate to pay attention

for millions of people to pay attention to that on their whatever feed without a way to take action on that maybe not or that the thing that they're going to look at that and then not buy Starbucks or something as if that's the most direct

I would bet you not looking at that screen and using less oil and AI and a whole lot of other stuff, you will have more of an impact on the plight of that child, you know, then you will absorbing more and more media from all sides about it. You know, this is what you're talking about is a paradox that I've been running into

philosophically because my entire job is being on a screen for other people, most of my job. Some of my job is 3D space when I go out to do stand-up. But also I think the conclusion you're drawing here is one that many of us have been coming to in different ways. I've been thinking

of what you were describing in a much more eloquent way, I've been thinking of 2D space and 3D space. And that in 2D space where most people are spending their time, it's a nightmare and it's creating

stress reactions that are leading to pretty high levels of anxiety and passive aggressive behaviors or very aggressive behaviors. You know, and so then what you're saying, which is what I've been thinking is obviously what's poisoning the well here is this data stream that we're all addicted to and wrestling with the fact that I need this data stream to feed my kids. then also wrestling with what you're bringing up here, which is when you're aware of all of the major suffering in the world and you're just one person, how do you deal with the human desire to help? It's a really, it's a lot, you know? It's a lot. It is a lot. It is a lot. And we are

responsible, you know, to everyone and everything. It's just you have to, you have to, uh, or I invite people, I guess, to consider, you know, where do they make a difference and how do they make a difference? And I feel like there are these sort of globally scaled problems like, you know, Palestine or tracking or, you know, the big things that are deserve attention. But I wonder, you know, do we, do the 99% of us who are just living lives in towns and things and have jobs and whatever, what is the greatest, our highest leverage point to impact the world? And I feel like so much of it is in the way we actually move around in our lives. How well do you know your neighbors? how nice are you treating people? There's a, there's a, you know, it's like,

everything fits in. If you're taking care of the old person on the bench, you know, so then they're less dependent on the S&P 500 for their dividends, then we're less dependent on the oil industry growing exponentially in order to feed that old person. So then we're less dependent on the Gulf of, Hormuz, so then we're less committed to a war in Iran, so then we're less committed to, you know, blindly supporting one policy or another. Then that little child, that little child's

hand is getting less and less likely to be blown off. You know, the less we're contributing to these brittle, top-down, pyramidal, extractive, you know, corporations, depending on an exponential growth, the better we're doing and the more resilient we are as communities for climate change, for mass migration, for all the other kinds of problems that we're worrying about. Yeah, this is your philosophy is really radical. Like, and maybe there were sadly, it's radical. Right. Be nice to people. Meet your neighbor. I get it. Take five, 10% of your time and work on world issues. Go for it. Go for it. You know, do that. Right. But then the other 95% of the time,

it's like, how are you living your life? Where are you sourcing your food? Who are you taking care? Who are the vulnerable people in your neighborhood that are going to need you if there's a flood? That's the easy stuff. Okay. Okay. So you're like a time traveler from the past, which we never hear about because there were no time machines in the past. like an old country doctor. In a way, in a way you are. This philosophy that you're proposing was the philosophy. It was early America.

This is how you're going to survive. You're not going to survive if you aren't in a community. If you aren't connected to people who. Buddy, that's coming again. Not to get dumer on you, but the best, the best way to both prevent and survive the coming catastrophe is, know your neighbors, take care of each other, source food locally, useless energy, get away from the coastline. Come on. Really? Jesus Christ, Doug?

Well, look at the Koch brothers models. I mean, you go to the most right-wing crazy place. The conservatives are the ones who've been planning for climate change way longer than we crazy progressives and anarchists. They've got the models or where they're buying real estate is where people have to migrate to after their coastal flood. flooding and droughts and everything else. It's, it's, it really is, you know, I've been sort of doing the math in my head right now recently, when it, so first of all, I don't think anyone's being a doomer when they say things like what you just said. No, it's all love, baby.

It's just how do we take care of each other? Yeah, that's not. But the, because, you know, I would challenge anyone. to go and find any sector of the political spectrum that isn't prognosticating some kind of event coming. I mean, you've got the AI people almost proudly announcing the danger of this fucking thing they're making, which is one of the many bat-shit things that's happening right now. Totally.

It's like we birthed Damien. What? In history, when has there been a corporation that came out and said, guys, the poison we're making, this is real, there's a pretty high likelihood that's going to destroy the world. And it hasn't been immediately shut down. Like, like, look at the, you know, tobacco, big tobacco. Look at the shit they went through. Look at Zuckerberg and meta, you know, getting, getting just fucking fine, even though it. doesn't matter because it makes you so much money.

Look at all these companies where the state is like just, just attack them and then AI. They're announcing it. And the only regulation we seem to be getting from the federal government is stop calling it artificial. And that's what Trump's big regulatory move is. It's super intelligence. That's what you call it.

Nah, if you say it's artificial, you're an enemy of the state, motherfucker. Exactly. So that's wild, man. wild. And so it's not dumerism to me at all. But another reason that your philosophy to me is incredibly radical. If you really, and I'm lucky enough to have had so many conversations with you, I've gotten to think it through, what you're inviting people to do, I would describe is a kind of revolutionary act. And I think in some ways could be a nonviolent revolutionary act, because these systems that you're talking about, we have a lot of names for them,

hierarchical, pyramidic, patriarch, whatever you want to, whatever you want to call it, these top-down systems, what isn't inside of all of them is the rescue fantasy, right? This is wait until we get to regulating or to supplying you with what you need. Right now, the state is warped towards oligarchy, so money's flowing up, but once the left gets back, in control, which they're definitely going to do in the midterms, fear not for we will come and save you. We will, you know,

things will become sensible again, even though this has never really happened. No. It's all that. It's all those ends justifies the means thing. So it sucks now or it's getting some kids or killing themselves or whatever, but once we get it down, it's going to be great,

it's going to heal diseases and solve your cancer and all that. And the, and they're all of them, you know, whether it's the left, oh, we're going to have this problem, but then we'll get to green pastures or something else.

Right. And there's a great, you know, moment in history, this guy, Albert Camus. He's one of the French, like, existentialist philosophers. And all the other existentialists, him and all of them, they all went Marxist at the beginning, you know, because it looked good during the Bolsheviks and all. We're going to share. It's going to be great and all that. Then the revolution came, and it was like, oh, we've got to spill some blood.

Ooh, we've got to stick people in the gulag. Oh, they're kind of killing. And most of them like Sartra and those guys They were like oh let's keep going you know We're kind of a little you got to break a few eggs to get an omelet Yeah and Camus was the one who said Whoa I'm out count me out Once you're killing another person to do the other thing

You lost me it's got to be in the moment You are the sacred is in the moment that you're living You're what you're actually doing is the thing and I'm like, yeah, that is, that is the revolutionary act. He wrote a whole book called The Rebel, which was that. The Rebel is the person that's saying, no, I'm not going to fight in your fucking war because it's right now, right here. Yeah.

And fuck. But when you look at it logically, when you look at it practically, I feel like it's easier. It may be better to do that and model. that behavior for everyone else rather than to try to get people to fight with you on whatever side that you're on. Long-term partner BetterHelp insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average co-pay for eligible members of just $23 per session. You know, who doesn't know it's World Mental Health Day? Your mental health. Your mental health has no idea what day it is, probably maybe, sometimes I forget what day it is.

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Like, anytime I'm doing something that I have nothing to do with. And as a parent, you know, as a parent, we have a lot of opportunities to do things. that we have nothing to do with taking your kids to a playground. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's not anything as a single person I would ever want to do in a million years is go to a fucking playground. And it would be creepy if I showed up at a playground. I know they kick you out.

They kick you out. No, they probably wouldn't though. That's the, that's the sad part. They wouldn't. You see adults wander in there. Nobody knows what to fucking do. We're all just like, what the fuck are you doing here, man? But the make a YouTube of my child.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're filming the playground. ground. Oh my God. Great. But the the the the in those moments I have experienced what I could only describe is a kind of lessening of some kind of gravity. It's like being engaged in serving oneself is heavy literally. It's it's a heavy state and it's in and when you're not doing that things lighten up in this kind of shocking way, which has got me thinking about, you know, the sort of esoteric interpretation of the kingdom

of heaven that Jesus was always talking about. Like, is that the kingdom of heaven that he was talking about is that in these moments, or maybe like what Hawking Bay was trying to point towards with the temporary autonomous zone stuff? Or is, is it, there's almost this highly accessible parallel reality existing simultaneously with the dense oil climate change look out for your fucking self get get a gun there is i tell you there is but the great i mean this is like i would normally share this but what the heck please it's just you and me um so there's something that's been So I'm normally, as we all are, I have an aversion and a fear, to some extent, of the pain and suffering of others. Yeah.

Right? So let's say, I'm tripping on mushrooms, right? And I can think about this. I could think about that woman. I could think about that flower. I could think about, you know, the branches on the end. And it's like, oh, maybe. And then I could start thinking about the swirl of human violence and consumption and, you know, what we're doing to each other.

The, you know, and it just looks like one big, crazy, like demonic war of all the pain and all the suffering. And I can think, well, it's my job as someone who's on the healthy part of the tree or whatever to breathe through and help. this whole human organism metabolize that pain and trauma to the best of my ability. That's what mushrooms tend to bring to me is like, you may be okay. You may have this trauma, but there's this collective trauma out there. There's this sea of tears, this ocean of anguish, and try to breathe and be with that, and be with that anguish. And as you do that, whether you're tripping or not, to really do that in meditation, whatever,

It actually elicits a bliss state. Yeah. Yeah. So then I start thinking about, you know, the Buddha, he was aware of the pain and suffering, right? He knew. He knew. And with all those years of compassion, he gets to the fucking happy Buddha, right? Yeah.

The happy Buddha is the Buddha that's metabolizing the pain and suffering. So it's like, the thing that's crazy and scary about it is the kind of the sociopathic twist on it. Like, ah, I love the pain and suffering of others. Attachment to suffer. No, you don't love the pain and suffering of others, but you learn to metabolite, to breathe it. And you begin to understand that that's a valid, maybe crucial, role for living beings to be here and bear witness. It's like to be doulas for, you know, death doulas for the, the, the, a civilization in some

ways and hopefully birth doulas for what's next. Yeah, I think that one of the things that gets in the way of people practicing what you're talking about is a kind of long-term. planning. In other words, like, they get really far ahead of themselves. So in their minds, they, the mushroom spirit or just the spirit of your soul or whatever you want to call it, they intuit from that a possible way that humans could coexist that is really very different from the way that we're currently coexisting. And if they're able to overcome the years of conditioning that will spring up the moment you think a thing like that and will tell you you're

out of your fucking mind you hippie piece of shit what are you talking about what are you a communist what are you what really how do we get there what do you want to do how does that even fucking work what do we take all the money from the rich people we're going to arrest people overpopulation what are we going to do what about other countries you can invade other countries and make them be good people so you know that that that springs up but if you could if you overcome that you what I've realized is the thing that's creating the dismay or the sense of this is unrealistic is I'm trying to manifest that whatever that world is that we've all in some way touched as either as children, either in some transient way on psychedelics or through meditation

or through dreams or whatever. And whatever that world is, you don't need to worry so much about, you know, the final phase of this possibility. What you are teaching is like, what if you start behaving like you're in that world now? And that's all you could do. And that is very spontaneous, right? Like, that's very much what's the next thing you're going to do, not how do we like, how do we get rid of the oligarchy

or how do we, you know, make things equitable. Those things, those, it's really hard to figure those, things out, right? Like, how do we make a more just economic, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, it's like, wait a minute. I don't even have to answer that. That question is premised

on industrial age scaled values. So it's like, great. How do we create a national constitution that guarantees poor people get to eat? It's like, well, what if a national constitution is not the way that you get poor. Wait if a national constitution is intrinsically violent because a nation state boundary is a violence condition based on blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Violence condition. You know what I mean? Once you put a boundary around a place and say, if your baby is born on this side, you get the food. Born on that side, you can't have the food. Yeah. That's violence, basically. Right.

You know, y'all over there, fuck you. You know, that doesn't, whatever. I mean, it's convenient. I know, let's not, let's not brush over this because I think I would love to dive in to the illusion of boundaries with you and how, again, anyone who has allowed their mind to stretch out beyond the scope of like mainstream media or beyond the fear conditioning, the propaganda, and has stumbled upon the problem of borders, has inevitably, like, you run into it, like, can God make a rock so big, you can't move it?

Because you, you know what I mean, you run into this thing that will fuck with your head, is like on one like i want fucking boundaries in my house my house is not a violence condition and yet if someone comes into my house in the middle of the night there will be blood there will be violence you know what i mean so it is a violent condition and then and then you know and yet who i don't where i live i don't want no walls in my house i don't i lock the doors it's secure man and it needs to be for real. And so, and yet that other world that we're all feeling, it's not a world that has borders. It's not a world where we, because of some line drawn by fucking pirates, if you get into Buckminster Fuller, people on one side of the line can just be shot if they cross

10 feet in the wrong direction. Legally, it's okay. Or, ripped apart by razor wire. You know what I mean? It's okay. It shouldn't have gone over. What, I don't care if they were running from the fucking drug cartel. That's their own issue over there on that side. And so, and yet, on the other hand, on the other hand, if we dissolve all boundaries right now, because we live in a disharmonious world, and because the thing that is inevitably,

the fly in the ointment when it comes to. this way of thinking, some piece of shit is going to use that open border to come over and do some fucked up things for sure. But what's why I'm arguing you can't figure it out from the top down as a thing. What's going to be the system rule? No. But as you know more of your neighbors, you make your neighborhood more resilient. Yeah.

More people are outside and watching. There's a little bit less. I mean, when I was a kid, we used to run into each other's houses. Everything was unlocked. We'd figure out which house on the block's going to have the best dinner, and we'd go there. You're right. And that kind of neighborhood, they're a little bit less scared of certain things. I mean, then there's other social problems.

Like, oh, this neighborhood's white. Now there's a black kid walking around. And, oh, no, who's that? Foreigner, you know. And again, then you've got to work on that. But we're not even up to the... We're not even up to that yet. You're right.

You're right. It is top down. But that's where I get, that's where he gets snagged. I know. That's where we get snagged. And that always happens to me. And I'm doing these talks and stuff. You know, so I was doing this talk about, you know, that story I always tell about, you know, borrow a drill.

How I had to put a picture up on the wall. And my first impulse is to go to Home Depot and get this drill and I'm going to use it once and leave it in the garage and all the pollution. All because I'm afraid to go knock on my neighbor's door and say, Bob, can I borrow your drill and then we're buying this drills. We don't have to work as hard and all that. Someone always gets up one of those systems people and says, well, well, everybody borrowing stuff is like, what about the drill company? What about the person who works at the drill company?

You're all borrowing tools and sharing stuff and that person's not going to. And then I said, so fuck the drill company. Whatever. I don't give a shit about that. And he goes, well, what if the old lady living on that block has shares in the drill company? She's depending on dividends in order to make her retirement. And I'm like, well,

That's the woman we have to take care of. She's depending on that instead of her block, you know, if we have a block that is, that is, you know, everyone's borrowing and sharing drills and stuff, and that lady's going to be better off. And he's like, yeah, well, so what are you saying? We stop Medicare, we do this, we do that. And I'm saying no.

I'm saying it starts by we borrow a drill. It's a small action. The company is not going to fail overnight from me borrowing a single drill. This is the safest, calmest, most inked. incremental way to depressurize the corporate sphere and to to reanimate the the local personal social sphere yeah you're look man i'm i'm down you know what i mean i'm not saying it's a plan i'm saying it's it's a comportment that i think will be valuable in any case it's a way of being will it solve everything probably not but it will make everything better yes you know there's that there's

that's great. And I know it's afraid, I'm afraid to talk about like a Jewish prayer now in the age of Zionism. It's like, you know, it's like Judea, the Jewish brand has been. Another fucking insane thing that's happening right now, man. Another insane thing. Who would have thought 10 years ago that prior to saying a Jewish prayer, which is also a Christian prayer by proxy of like the Old Testament, New Testament, that you have to preface it with some kind of you know

apology who would have thought we got we got there and it's right i know sorry for the origins of the but it's actually it's a medieval jewish prayer called unitana tokev and it's this one it says like it's you do it on yom kippur and russia shana and it says you know that that it is already written you know that god has this book of life and death and it's like during yom kippur he's like writing down who's going to to live and who's going to die, who's going to be sick, who's going to be well, all that, who's going to be rich, who's going to be poor, all that. And there's like, and there's like nothing you can do about it. And it sounds so scary that at the end of the poem, and I didn't

see this till way later in life. At the end of the poem, it says, but through, through charity, good works and compassion, we can lessen the severity of the decree. Wow. Right. So we're saying what's going to happen may be written, right? But the way it goes down can be softened by how we treat each other. Just be there. So I'm in this place where, and this is sort of like the end of an activist's life where I'm like no long, I'm less worried about my activism as an intervention than my behavior as palliative care. Oh, yeah. I like that.

And even though it is somewhat grim. morbid it's not exactly a ray of sunshine but and yet you know what when my mom was dying oh i you know thank god for hospice because you know when your parents are dying and you just you're in some deep fucking water man with a lot of things swimming around in there and you can you you know madness can spring up you know in the midst of that you know like uh at one point you know when my mom was maybe week away from dying she and was you know people when they get close to the end they kind of are coming in and out and like she wanted to us to take her to like an island off the coast of georgia and it's just like on one side you've got like a request of a dying person on the other side

it's like i don't know if this is even i don't think we can do that mom like i don't see how that works what happens if you die on the boat or what what if like all this how do we get the oxygen over there. But it was, you know, hospice, you know, they come in and they've seen versions of this over and over and over and over again. And they're angels. And they come in with this love energy is the only way to describe it. And it isn't morbid. I wouldn't call it. I would call it the opposite. It is the opposite. It's holy. This new book that I'm writing really starts with a hospice experience. It's me with my mother-in-law and she's dying and I'm stuck there. instead of being at this conference, I really wanted to go to, and she starts going.

I mean, I could hear the, you know, the length between the breath starts to get long, and you can't tell if the person's almost trying not to take the next breath. It's like the next, you know that moment when the, you hear it come back and like, oh, fuck, I couldn't stop my body from trying to breathe again. Yeah, I know it. And I put my hand on her, because I think she's in a coma. I'm stuck here, whatever, maybe she'll put my hand on her. And I felt her soul really, her, her, I felt her, whatever.

she is using my nervous system as an extension of hers in order to metabolize the journey out of body. Wow. And that was like the most profound gift I've ever been able, been blessed to provide someone else in my life. And I'm thinking, oh, fuck, me, Mr. Ego, I'm so pissed off and I'm not in front of 100 metacrisis activists in San Francisco giving them the solution to the metacrisis problem. And instead, I'm sitting here literally.

literally ushering someone from this dimension to the next. And I was like, oh, but that's also the message I got, which was that this is a, that there's something dying. There's something dying. And it's like that you go up to someone, they're dying on the battlefield and you know, and you tell them, when you say to them, you're going to be okay, that's not lying.

You're going to be okay. doesn't mean you're going to live that we're going to get you back before you die. It's like, you're okay, you're okay. You're dying and you're okay. And to be able to say that to this civilization, to what's happening, it actually frees us up because then this collapse. It's not like the collapse of everything and all life on the planet. You realize the thing that's dying is not life. It's this anti-civilization. This might makes right awful thing, you know, that we've all been a part of in one way or another, and we see it, you know, in the, in the violence, in the, in the worship of, you know, so the social Darwinism.

Yeah. That's not, civilization's not competition. Human species, that was my, my book a few years ago, Team Human. I was arguing what defined humans was food sharing. That's what we did that the other ones couldn't do. That's how we evolved into this. It wasn't competition and war and weapons. That doesn't describe our evolution.

That's our anti-evolution. Well, this was, you know, something I... This episode of the DTF has been supported by my friends over at Cash App. You know what? I wish Cash App had existed when I was a kid because maybe I wouldn't have wrecked my credit when I was in college and just applied for a credit card and used it to make long-distance phone calls to my girlfriend from why. Washington, D.C. that I never intended to pay back. And I didn't. That was dumb. Teaching kids about

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The Ram Dass people, you know, they have all these Neem Kroli Baba stories. And one of those stories, you know, a lot of these hippies, they were into the spiritual journey, not just to like get enlightened, but they'd seen people like Neme Kroly Baba who seem to be telepathic. People like Neme Kroly Baba who seem to be demonstrating things that just don't work with the way we understand the world. And they would add, they would, we wanted that cities. SID, D-H-I-S is what they're called. And these, these potencies, these powers. And he said, if you want these cities, feed people. That was his instruction.

It wasn't go up into the mountains. It wasn't do some ascetic journey. It wasn't do these yoga, mudras or poses. It was feed people. And you will get everything. And I think he's pointing towards the same thing you're pointing towards, which is so infuriatingly simple. And but if you can lure people into that, which I think you're pretty good at doing, then what anyone will experience with this very accessible reality

because there's people all around you right now definitely needs your help. And maybe they don't fucking deserve it. That's the other thing. Oh, it's not my help. But the thing is, I'm so used to all the arguments against it because, oh, but it won't solve this. Oh, it won't solve that.

But it's like it's always, but it's a better way to spend the next 10 seconds than not doing it. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And for me, the monstrous asshole that lives inside of me, I mean, I don't know if you've ever done this when you're like, you go past somebody who is like begging, you do an analysis. And you're like, no, they don't deserve it.

Oh, I always do that. Oh, and it's like, but you, when you think about all the moments of grace in your own life, when you have gotten things, you definitely fucking didn't deserve. when fate has turned in your favor, even though the way you've been functioning has been selfish and shitty, and the universe still gave you what you needed at that moment. And so, you know, again, it's like these, I've been really trying to get increasingly aware of these blocks that jump up in my mind when it comes to entering into what for now I'm thinking of as the kingdom of heaven, which is not, I don't mean it. I mean, it's from Christianity, but Simadi, bliss, bliss states, whatever you want to call it.

And all of these things are embarrassing. Why am I doing some kind of Simon Cowell on homeless people? What the fuck is wrong with me? She's not getting. She's too pitchy, not getting anything. Yeah. Yeah. What is that?

But sometimes it's like, I mean, if you're going to be out, sometimes they're a little scary. I don't want to go near them. Okay, let me address this. I'm scared they're going to grab me or something. I'm glad you brought this up because I've done this practice twice now with my oldest kid. And both times have been somewhat unnerving. Trudy Goodman, she's such a great teacher. And she was talking to me about how when people go to help,

when you go to help homeless people ask them their name because people will just kind of sling money at them. And so they're completely dehumanized. Like they live in an invisible realm. No one wants to look at them. No one wants to be reminded of the fact that the system that we're in, if you make a series of bad decisions or maybe not, the gears will grind you up. It's like being in some kind of inside a massive clock and you're part of the clock. But over there, you see people in the gears getting smashed in the fucking gears. So it's hard to deal with that because, you know, that's just a rabbit hole that leads to him.

a lot of places that a lot of people don't want to go. So ask them their name. And so, you know, this, this dude was by the Starbucks. I'm with my kid. My kid looks at him and is like, I think he's hungry, dad. I'm like, you know what? We'll get him some food. And so go and he, dude, let me tell you.

Talk about someone who does not look approachable. You know what I mean? Let me Simon Cowell, this man. He wasn't putting an effort in and to seeming approachable. Oh, no, it's almost like he didn't have access to a shower or something, you know, or a barber or something, you know? Like, get a haircut, take a shower if you're going to be on the streets. You know, and so, of course, they look fucking scary. They can't take baths or showers.

They've got fucking lice. And they're, you know, they're also medicating their traumatic brain injuries with a variety of substances. So, but I'm like, oh, okay, but the kid said it. The kid said it. If I'm like, you know what, boy. He probably is hungry, but take a little. He needs a, maybe after a shower, we'll get him a rotissory chicken. So, go into Starbucks, get him, um, something healthy.

Got him, got him some food, got him, well, I mean, it's, I don't know. My wife says the Starbucks food is healthy. He seems fine to me, but got him a fucking muffin. Got it, ordered, ordered coffee for him. My kid was like, I think he wants water, dad. I would, for some reason, I push back on that. I'm like, you want, trust me. He wants coffee.

I don't know what the fuck. I was still. We go over. You should have taken his order. We go over to him. You're right. That's true. Why didn't I do that?

McDonald's Burger. He was some meat. I think he was asleep at the time. But we go over to him. He wakes up and give him the coffee. He's like, do you have, and his voice is not the voice you would expect. Yeah. You saw him in the, you would expect the voice to be like,

yeah, sweetest Texas voice. Like, thank you so much. don't have water, do you? And my kid looks at me like, you fucking asshole. And so then, and then I gave him a muffin. And like I told my, I believe it was my kid. I think I told my kid to ask him his name. We asked him his name. He's like, it's John, my name's, I can't remember. John, my kid remembers his name is a sad part and still talks about him. He's like, for the sake of the story, he's like, my name's John. How are you doing? He's like, well, I'm all right. You And he was so sweet, so unscary, so like absolutely helpless and sweet and unscary.

And you know what I mean? And it was. And he lives in your guest room now. No. That's where it stops. We live in a condition of violence, Mr. Rochcroft. We live in a condition of violence. But you know what?

It's a little thing. And in those moments, it's like you've taken a needle and popped a balloon. And that balloon is a balloon that is dying. That balloon is the consensus reality that is beginning to break down. And you can expedite its collapse in those moments. And it's such a sweet place when it's gone. It's such a sweet place. I'm not saying it's the infinity either.

it's like it's the first step if i'm doing a talk for a thousand people that are in their crazy friggin jobs designing you know god knows what you know hypnotic interfaces for evil companies and feeling bad about it and looking at their 401k plans and all and they're like what do we do how do we vote and if you give this first step you know meet your neighbor find out who in your neighborhood's going to need tending to if there's a blackout or a flood just find out where your food comes from where's the water in your neighbor just this is a super basic shit it initiates another chain of stuff it will get you eventually to politics because you'll join the community supported agriculture group and you know and they grow you know whatever kind of broccoli and

cabbage and that and then they need another field because they're doing better but that other field is reserved for corn because the corn lobby made it like that a while. So then you got to go to your state legislator and find out, how do we get the mandate on this field change so we can grow some more broccoli? Oh, well, let you do this. And all of a sudden, now you're an activist. And now you're changing law and zoning and growing different food and changing where food comes from. It's like not, this is not rocket science. The people that are doing rocket science, they might be the problem, right? Those are the people who were saying,

no, your land and your water is not there for people to eat. You people are doomed. Your water and your fuel and your maledinum, that's going to go in my rocket so I can get off this place. Motherfucker, get out of here, this piece of shit. Get out of this piece of shit quick. This party sucks. But the, you know, the other thing that happens when you're,

when you start doing the things that you're you're advising um and sadly i have less experience with this than that so i i feel like a little bit of a hypocrite though i have at moments we're all hypocrites that's the epistemological modesty or whatever these we're all struggling we're all sinners thank you no fuck man thank you but you you know these days especially uh there's a in the zeitgeist an obsession with what's being called the Epstein class, you know, and, you know, the exploitive vampire. And I love what you said in many podcasts ago about how we can translate conspiracy theories. Are there lizard people feeding off the anxiety energy of the masses? Well, probably not.

I mean, I've had a roll the dice. If I'm in Vegas and someone's like, here's $100,000, do you think lizard people exist and are feeding off luscious energy? I'm going to vote no on that. If it's $100,000, but are there super wealthy people who are literally feeding off of people's life energy by not paying them enough for working for them? Yes. But so this produces the myth or maybe not of the Illuminati, this cabal of powerful oligarchs who are marioneting the world. But I love to think about the other, there's another Illuminati. And our Illuminati. Yeah.

And you meet people out there. You meet people out there who aren't even fucking online. You meet people out there who are just helping, who have actually gone so far into that zone that if you bring up the shit that people are in a all fucked up over, they don't even know what's happening. Because they've so surrendered to this activity that you're advising people. You know what? And you, those people are as close as I've ever seen to saints or holy people or magical people. It's crazy. You cross paths with them, right? You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And you know, I think for us, and this is the hard part, this is the exercise, is, I mean, we understand that we have more latitude than many people, right? We have more degrees of freedom. Yeah. than a lot of people. Yeah. So how, what baby steps are we willing to make? How safe do we feel dismantling, undoing, undoing some of the fortress in order to be more like this? Like the one I'm just doing now is, I got, you know, I do my own podcast and I've done monologues and all this and I did all the things, right?

I've got my, my, I got that, YouTube and Instagram and the TikTok little pieces and the Patreon and the, I'm on Red Circle and then they do these ads, the programmatic ads, but then these other people come and they said that I could do reading ads that you manually put into your YouTube and then you read it, you know what I mean? And you do your own little spin on it. Yeah. But then if you do the. those they've got to be they really want slightly more than one episode up a week and then they want to

make sure how many people do I have. Yeah. And my average people has to go up. So then I'm going to get a couple of guests. I don't really, really feel like talking to this week. But they got a big following on their own. And if they do a collab, then I'm going to get more numbers on my YouTube, which I'll then get more of those. Yeah.

And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? What the fuck, man? And it's like, do I make? enough money to not do these platforms in the way that these platforms want me to do them, which is producing more content and more

shit out there than needs to be. I would rather produce less better stuff at my pace than conform to the logic of the platforms. Yeah. And so fuck it. Fuck it. I say to quote,

to quote Duncan, that's my Duncan voice. Fuck it. I'm taking my conversations off YouTube. Fuck that. It's not adding value to it. I'm going back.

I'm actually sticking them behind a fucking paywall because if people want to complain that I didn't say the right thing about this or that or the other, they're going to be paying me for the right to complain to me, right? So I'm sticking all my conversations. I'm not doing a podcast anymore. Team human is over.

Everybody's using the team human meme word now anyway. From, from Bannon to, you know, Mandela, whatever. Everybody's on team human. God bless. So I'm retiring that. I'm putting my podcast behind the paywall. I'm just going to do, I'm going to call them research conversations. Basically, Rushcock has his monologues. My monologues are public. I'll put those on YouTube and blah, blah, and everywhere for everybody for free because that's me doing propaganda to change the fucking reality. I love it. So I do that. Then behind the paywall on my conversations, that's me with these these little microphones

going to clip one on you clip one on me stick this other little piece in the in the eye thing and whatever eye device I happen to have with me and and have a conversation assumed knowledge

whatever fuck it's me talking to you you could be a fly on the wall and this is the real deal no presentation no introduction I'm not like oh you're you're on tour for your new book. So tell me what it's about. You know what I mean? No obligation for that. This is my conversation for me because they can be on my journey as I try to figure out what the fuck is going on here. You know, I mean, in some ways, it's closer to midnight gospel, right?

Which was actually, those were not interviews with people about their things. That was your character like, what is going on? You're in this fucking what's going to do? What are we going to do? What are we going to do? You know, but, and that and do it at my own pace, right? I am. I do it at my own pace. And it's like, and if they want to, if they want to pay me for it, they pay me. If they don't, they don't. But, I mean, thank God I've got a teaching gig, right?

Yeah. So I realize if I've got a teaching gig that's actually keeping me alive, I owe it to myself and the world to not do anything else for the money. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by my friends. at Blue Chew. And you know what? This is a company that I am proud as a sponsor of the DTFH because the medicine they produce works. Oh my God. Blue Chewold. I'm getting choked up thinking about it. Blue 2 gold. Just try it. It's insane what it does. It already does what blue chew is always done, which is bring you back to those days before the pandemic when you're,

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Visit Blu.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring this pod in the DTFH bedroom. Thank you, Blue Chew. You know, I love, what came to mind when you were talking about this shift is, I think I saw it on a podcast. I can't remember. Some comedian was talking about, like talking, he was having a conversation with Louis C.K. In the midst of the cancellation that he experienced, probably still experiencing to some degree. But, and Louis C.K. was just saying to him, you know what?

I'm just going to go offline for a while. And he thought to himself, oh, that's what success looks like. It's like you can go offline. And what you're describing for a lot of us is, is that's success. Like that is the, that is a joy. And also, obviously, when you were describing this sort of bundle of fucked up things that can happen, when you, when this becomes your, job and you have to be so very careful, which is just what you're saying, which is the reason,

like, you look out at podcasts and you'll notice many of them have recurring guests, is because those guests get more views. And, and so when you're, you know, whenever I'm, like, thinking of who I want on the DTFH, that the same voice that, I guess in my mind, roasts homeless people will come in and be like, you know, they don't get as many views as guests. you know what if we reach out to this part and it's like get thee behind me Satan it's like if I go down that path if I go down that fucking path what I why do I need to do that there's it's hard not to it's hard not to because you want that money you want those views you want the thing you get a social media manager and they look at it I mean what happened to me was I went on

this guy um Danny something in Florida yeah I've been on that show I know what you're talking about Danny Jones I think you might a wrecked Danny Jones I go on this guy I go on this guy um he's something in Florida I go on there and I'm looking at and I'm thinking I mean he's a nice guy and whatever he's got good muscles and all but I'm getting what I'm getting yeah what the fuck rushoff what of the fuck dude I was eating protein powder that was the next guy I went on Danny Jones and then another guy had me on and I was like he had these protein powders all over and I was like oh my god which one of these is the one and he goes oh you want hydrolyzed hydrolyzed weight protein isolate holy shit okay because it's got four words it's going to be really what what What are you doing curls too? What are you doing? Why you got guns all of a sudden? That's crazy. Curls?

I don't know if I'm doing curls. What are you doing for your bicep exercise? There's a place. There's a machine. I'd be doing the push machine. I'm doing the push. One like that. And then the one that goes up.

You know what you're going to get? One that goes like this. You are going to get the Robert De Niro Cape Fear body, which to me is the ultimate body. Remember when he's doing pull-ups in his cell and he's tattooed with room. I'm doing pull-ups. I have a pull-up. bar, I'm doing that.

That's what's making these. I'm in, but I'm doing chin-ups and pull-ups. And then someone got me these things that hang off the chin-up bar, like little, and you pull it up on those and you go, it sort of turns from a pull-up to a thing. Jesus Christ. Move, yeah. So I'm very, very strong.

No, I've gained four pounds so far. You know, this is probably the most scared of them. This is the most scared I've been talking to you because I think you're doing that to prepare for what's coming. I think you're getting it. No. No, the doctor. actually told me to gain weight. He goes, as you get old, you need to be, have more weight so you

don't get emaciated if you get COVID or something. Well, Danny Jones. But anyway, that wasn't the point. That wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about something actually Danny Jones. Oh, so yeah, what happened was I go on Danny Jones and I'm like, why is this guy get millions of followers? I'm definitely as smart and my conversations are as interesting, if not more so. But then I look, his topics are like conspiracy theory and stuff. Like aliens. and weirdness. And the reason he had me on was because I did a monologue

about Jeffrey Epstein, this dinner I got invited to and it was really creeped out at and I found out like 10 years later that it was like an Epstein-funded dinner party. I was like, oh, you see? I had the spidey sense that this was fucked up.

You know, that was what it was. And so he interviewed me and then because I'm on that, then another one and another one and I started to get the, and I realized, but it's also like the other way you can make more get more listens is you change your subject matter toward the things that people really listen to and again that that that that is the road

to hell man and you know the problem for me is people have gotten up my ass about this is what happens when you start feeling interested in those very topics you know what and you're not doing it for the fuck of views you're doing it because you make Maybe the algorithm has manipulated you into being interested in this stuff. But, you know, also, a lot of it, this is something that I've been scratching my chin at. You go back and look at the last few episodes of my podcast. One of them, somebody named it, someone, I don't know who did that. Someone named it something really weird and it didn't make sense the name.

So I just text it was like, I vaguely remembered what I was yapping about. something about AI merging timelines. I'm like, just call it AI is merging all timelines. And they called it that. That episode, just because of that stupid name, has gotten more views than any other fucking episode, just because the algorithm was like, yeah, I like that's, I like that name. Well, great. They got people like any of these platforms you use now, they've taught people how to A-B test your

titles when you do a substack. It's like, try a few titles and they send out a test. test and then they tell you which one made the most things. Just think of like Hemingway. If like his typewriter did any of that shit. If his typewriter was like, wow about a different title. Is your objective? Is your objective

to communicate what you're feeling most accurately and emphatically or to put out the symbols that get the most bites? You know what I use?

This is my sort of a level is am I interested is this like you know like whenever I get to talk to you I'm excited because I know you're going to teach me stuff and tell me things and I'm interested I'm going to be interested from before the podcast starts to to when after the podcast ends and in and in the and I just like it because you're sweet and I love you I do but you know I so that that to me is though that should be it. That should be it. But of course, we're also in business, right?

We're in business. So it is a matter of marrying that to, what do they call it, market product, product fit, right? There is a, you are productizing your interests and trying to match it to the hunger of an audience. So in some cases it might mean, not bait and switch, but figuring out how to dress or title something that they need to hear in a way that's approachable for them.

Do you think that's bad? No, it's communication. You know, it's just when are you doing it? When do we lean over too far? So you could say, Doug, if you care about your message, then you would do everything the algorithm says in order to get the people there so that you're reaching 100,000 hits instead of 50,000 hits.

And I'm like, you know, no. What if I reach as I do? you know, 20 to 40,000 of the people who actually care about what I'm doing with what I'm doing. Yeah. And with the quintessence of Rushkoff. And it's like, and they'll support it or not.

They'll, you know, and then the other thing is, you know, so I'm getting like, you know, what's it, like two grand a month I get through Patreon. Yeah. And then I look, what is that support? Two grand supports at most four episodes a month so I could pay for my editor. to do the thing.

Yeah. And still get 150 bucks myself. You know, whatever. And so it's a laborer of love. That's what it's. So rather than, okay, I've got to do eight episodes a month in order to grow my audience. So it's like, no, me doing the thing I do, the way I do it supports $2,000 or $3,000 a month, then that's what, then that's what it is. I just, I love it, like, it's so, it's just so poisonous how you, you are, you, you, you,

talked about this in an earlier episode i think about all the time which is we you say you know in a humble kind of way my show gets between 20 and 40 000 impressions a month which you've talked about this put that's how many people fit in a football stadium how is that a taylor swift concert a month that you're performing at exactly that's what exactly i looked at that it's like because i look at it next to like danny jones and I go, oh, I'm pitling here. And then I think about, wow, once a week, between 20 and 40,000 people gather in a stadium for me to step out and talk to them for 35 minutes.

It's like, geez, am I not going to drive down to MetLife Stadium in Jersey to talk to my 40,000 people who have shown up? I think I may as well. And that is huge. That is huge. But in the face of Dana Jones, you're peasant. Oh, me out.

40, 20,000 people. And then you dehumanize those people. It's like, who the, so I guess those people, what are they just peanuts to you? It's only small if I'm thinking about how many ears are there to hear my hydrolyzed way protein isolate commercial, which I love, by the way, use offer code rush cough biceps to get 20% off triple hydrolysis, you know, I did this ad and they complained to me that nobody who's using my code, but that's what my code got them 5% off the product. But when you go to the website, there was a code that it, right on the home page that you got like 30% off. I'm like,

why are they going to use my team human code if they get more? What the fuck? That's a bait and switch. That's a bait and switch. That's what that is. You got bait and switch. I know. So I lost that. I lost that. But the other problem with my ads is I'm only doing like one out of 10 ads that come in. Am I willing to do? It's like, oh, here's this meat company. It's like, oh, look at this meat. They say, oh, it's a good meat, great meat. I'm looking, oh, is it organic? Is it, you know, a family farm raised?

Is it, oh, it's meat imported from like China and putting boxes. Like, I don't think I could talk. It's like each company that was coming was not the thing that they were saying they were. And it's like, I can't. Real quick, I'm sorry, I got to do an ad. Everybody, this episode of the DTF has been supported by the Wuhan meat. company selling some of the best Chinese meat you can get this shit is good meat it's incredible it you get the stuffed pangolin is really good oh my god you've got to try the stuff pangolin it is

un i mean you know when we heard about what the pangolin was responsible for i did think you look at one i don't want to eat that but then when you taste it wholly you realize it was all worth it pangolin bacon it's incredible Doug thank you so much i got one do you have time for one quick question Yeah, I got time for anything. Okay. I'm yours for the rest of the month. Oh, wonderful. What for the people listening, give us an exercise, a real exercise, something actionable

that is in the team human Rushkoff spirit that we can do this week to, to step into this sort of possible future. I'll give you one. I'll give you one. And this is good and like, this is like spiritual. Like this is the one like your mom would appreciate this one. Okay. From what I know about her just from seeing her on the show.

Okay. When you go to bed tonight, lie there and think, what are, who are the ten bodies closest to my body while I'm sleeping? Wow, that's cool. And commit to meeting every one of those 10 people. Love it. Love it.

What if you've got four kids, a poodle and a wife? The poodle doesn't count. It's human bodies. I have five. There are five others. Yeah, I mean, it's nice you've got a family around you. But you think about it, those are the people with whom

you are metabolizing reality. Yeah. most of the time. Right. Right. More, more of the time than anyone else. So 10 other people, that would be nice. Yeah, maybe 10 people outside in your family. That's a heavy exercise. That's hardcore, man. I mean, doing it in New York is crazy hard, right? Because it's like the person who lives in the apartment above you and below you and figure out those 10, what's the 10 people in the sphere around your body? That is hardcore. I mean, for you guys on flat land, it's a little a little easier. But do a map, figure out who those 10 are. And there's going to be a couple of neighbors

in there you've never met. I can't believe I've never thought of that before. No one thinks about that. No one thinks about who are the 10 people sleeping around you when you sleep. And you don't know their fucking names. I know. And you think about who's keeping you safe? Who's keeping you safe? Whoa.

I love you, man. You are the best. That was fun. It was so fun. And because you have, it's because you've sort of reorganized and as you were mentioning earlier, where can people, is it still the team human website? Is it how do people connect with you that? Yeah.

It's always rushcoff, rushcuff.com. Okay, got it. I got rushcoff. Substack.com. You could find me, do Rushkoff in any podcast app. And it's just my podcast is going to be called Rushkoff. Beautiful. Love it.

All right. Mr. Rushkoff, God bless you. Thank you so much. You're the best. That was Doug Rushkoff, everybody. All the links you need to find Mr. Rushkoff will be down below. And won't you please come. See me in Detroit this weekend at Mike Drop Comedy.

Links down below. Get your tickets in advance, you Stoners. Please, you always end up showing up to the shows anyway, but it sure makes this neurotic old man with four kids feel better when we sell tickets in advance. I'll see you in Detroit. I love you. Goodbye.