Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Abby Martin LIVE from the Arlington Drafthouse

Episode Date: May 27, 2015

Journalist and artist Abby Martin (Breaking The Set, Media Roots) joins Duncan at the Arlington Draft House to talk about Putin, Jesus, and LSD among other things.

Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. I'm dirty little angel. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Hello, my dear sweet friends. It is I, Duncan Trussell, the Skrillex of podcasting, and you are listening to the Duncan Trussell Family Hour

podcast. And today, I am releasing another live episode this one with Abby Martin. It was recorded at the Arlington Draft House in Virginia. It has an opening monologue built into it. So I'm not gonna do another opening monologue. I'm just gonna do some quick business and then we're gonna dive right into that live podcast.

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that aren't moving have been hung on your body. All right, that's enough of those commercials. Let's dive right into this live podcast. This is live. I've only said that a million times so far. So my opening rant here is in front of a live audience. So forgive me if it seems stammery or weird or different from whatever my opening rants usually are,

but these are live shows. So there's differences. I don't get to hang out in the inner sanctum of my podcast studio, re-recording these things over and over again. So that's the only difference though. Our guest is a returning guest. Her name's Abby Martin.

She's the former host of the show Breaking the Set, which was on Russia Today. You can find out more about Abby by following her on Twitter at Abby Martin. She's also an amazing artist who makes some incredibly psychedelic images. You can check those out by going to her website, www.abby, that's abbymartin.org.

And she is the founder of a great organization called Meteor Roots. So there you go guys, please now welcome back to the Dunkin' Trussell Family Hour podcast, Abby Martin. All right. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Hello my sweet friend.

Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi. Good evening everyone. It is I, Dunkin' Trussell, and you are listening to the Dunkin' Trussell Family Hour podcast recorded live from the Arlington Draft House in Virginia. Hello. Man, I love Jesus.

I really do. I'm not a Christian, but I love Jesus. And you know, being a Christian is an interesting thing. A lot of you guys are probably aware of the history of Christianity, but for those of you who aren't aware of the history of Christianity, to sum it up, there's like the gospels,

there's these gospels, which are the stories of these people hanging out with this being that no one's even sure existed or not, could have been a archetypical form, a thing created by secret societies to seed history, to create a certain wave in the evolutionary flow of things, to lead us to the technological singularity that Kurzweil is talking about.

Some people think that's what Jesus was. Nobody really knows, but one interesting thing about Christianity that I really like is that you have the gospels, and then you have the epistles, which follow the gospels. And those epistles, a lot of them were written by this guy named Paul, who never met Jesus at all. He was somebody whose name was Saul of Tarsus,

and he was, as the story goes, back in the day, right after Jesus was crucified, there was one very popular hobby that people had, which was beating the shit out of Christians. They loved it. They'd throw rocks at them, feed them to lions. I don't know why, man, it's really weird to think about that, but that was like a kind of accepted thing,

like, oh, you're a Christian. Oh, there's a Christian, grab some rocks. Let's throw rocks to this asshole. He's a Christian. So that really was going on, and one of these guys who liked to throw rocks at Christians was this guy named Saul of Tarsus. I'm not really sure what Tarsus even means or where that is,

but his name was Saul, and he was walking to a city called Damascus, and on the way to Damascus, he had this vision where he saw Jesus Christ, the Christ consciousness, the force of all love and good in the universe appeared before this guy as he's walking down this road and said to him, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? And in that moment, there was some kind

of revelatory moment that happened for him where he realized his entire life was wrong. You shouldn't throw rocks at Christians. You probably shouldn't throw rocks at anybody. It's a bad practice in general, because we're all human beings and it fucking hurts when a rock hits you, man, don't do it. It's a bad thing.

So he had a series of revelations in that moment when he encountered this divine being, and he was made blind and then wandered to Damascus where he met some Christian missionaries and basically founded the early Christian church. Now, regardless of the fact that if you've read the epistles, it seems like Paul might just be the biggest asshole on earth, definitely a misogynist,

and possibly maybe whatever happened. I don't know what happened, but Dostoevsky has an excellent essay where he talks about that moment when Saul meets this entity, Jesus Christ, and is completely transformed. And he says, well, what happened in that moment? Did this being, this Christ consciousness touch Saul

in some kind of like metaphysical way? Was there a spell cast and did this create a kind of atomic shift in Saul that made him turn into a better person? If that's the case, well, then we're fucked. That's the most awful thing that could have happened because it means there's no free will. It means that if you come into contact with this divine consciousness,

you're immediately shifted and everything's fine. And who gives a fuck? It doesn't really matter. You didn't do anything interesting. It sucks. He said more likely what happened is Saul was walking down the road. Maybe he didn't have enough water to drink or something.

And he had a hallucinatory moment. And in that moment of seeing this being, he used it as an excuse to become a good person. He used it as an excuse. He made this vision, the reason for him to suddenly transform his entire life and become a very sweet, kind, generous, giving, loving being. I fucking love that, man.

I love that because it reminds me of chaos magic, which is the idea that it's not really the deity itself that matters. It's the decision that matters to transform your life and that you can make that decision at any second, at any moment. You can make that decision at any single given moment. That means that right now, someone in the audience,

as you're listening to me, yeah, you could imagine that, or you could actually have a vision of Bigfoot. You could have a vision of Bigfoot. We're Bigfoot. You're like, I was listening to this fucking hippie weirdo go on and on about something I didn't really want to listen to. So I kind of started nodding off. And Bigfoot exploded in front of me,

glowing with light, beautiful and perfect and said to me, man, why do you keep leaving those shitty Yelp reviews all the time? You know, you don't have to do that. You know, you don't have to like, you can let people out in traffic from time to time. Like, you don't always have to. Why are you in a hurry anyway?

Like, why are you even in a hurry? Don't you realize how ridiculous it is to be rushing anywhere when you're going to die anyway when you're being so dumb? Like, you're rushing to your death bed, essentially. So why don't you stop being in a hurry, stop leaving shitty Yelp reviews, and just be nicer to everyone around you

for the rest of your life. And tell them Bigfoot told you to do that. And you could do that. You could really do that. And I think it's a super important time in human history for all of us to have those kinds of what's called the road to Damascus experience. I think it's very important for all of us

to have those road to Damascus experiences, no matter what they may be, no matter what it is, whatever the thing is, whether it's because you have inhaled dinomethyl tryptamine, whether it's because you guys are awesome, OK? I know you are. That's a real one for sure. That's a real one for sure.

You will see Jesus if you smoke DMT. I guarantee it. I'll give you your money back if it doesn't happen. Or some version of whatever that is. You might see Bigfoot too, honestly. You never know. But you will see. But that's a good excuse to be a better person.

ayahuasca is a good excuse to be a better person. But really, the idea is find the excuse. Just find the reason, whatever it is. Find the reason to become enlightened because so many people are waiting to be enlightened. So many people are like, you know, after I meditate for, I don't know, two years straight, or after I go to a Pashna meditation retreat,

or some Ram Dass retreats, or after I do this certain number of fucking things, that's when I'm going to start loving everybody unconditionally. And that's when I'm going to realize that I'm part of a unified whole that has its fundamental atomic quality, the essence of love.

I'll remember it after I fast for five days. I'll become that after I do a certain number of things. And that after, that I'll do it then, I'll do it now, or I should be meditating. All that leads to is you procrastinating your own waking up, which is what the ego's function is, because the ego doesn't want to die.

And the ego has created a situation where you are separated from everything else, an us or them situation, you know? Me, you, me and the rest of the world, me and the rest of everything else, death is the dissolution of the body and the merging into the entirety of all things. And that's a terrifying concept.

We don't want to do that, but you could do that right now if you wanted to. You could do it right now, the night in this very moment, you could do it right now. Come to the stage, I'll heal you of your illnesses. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Here's why it's really important

to have that road to Damascus experience if you ask me. Here's the reason it's very important to do that, because we need education reform, friends. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. We do, we do need it. But what does education, what does it mean? You know, are we talking about the herding of children into these organized penal colonies

where people like do a kind of foie gras style blasting of information in their poor little brains and then kick them out and like, I'll get a job, you're broken, you'll be, you're fucked. That's not education, no. Education has got to be every time you forgive somebody and they don't deserve your forgiveness. That's a teaching.

Every time somebody fucks you over, cheats on you, fucks you over in a way that they don't deserve to be forgiven and you say to them, I love you no matter what. We're only here for a second and anything that you do is perfect because we're just here for this glimmering flicker of time. I love you no matter what.

You do that to a person and you've taught them everything. You have given them the great lesson. Ha ha ha. And it gets really fascinating because this great lesson that you teach through love now because we have this technology around us, every time you do an act like that, every time you do something like that,

there's like a 60% chance someone's gonna film it and like upload it to the internet. And then that's gonna get perpetually and eternally reproduced for the rest of time and that's pretty fucking incredible. This technology that we have in our pockets, these computers that we have in our pockets right now, they are disrupting power structures left and right.

Every single day there's another report of a cop shooting somebody, a black guy in the back or a cop doing some awful fucking thing or some person in some part of the world doing a shitty thing or even that ESPN reporter. What's that ESPN reporter's name? No, it's not Cunt. That'd be awesome though.

What a great name for an ESPN reporter. Like, no, that's my name, I'm not changing it. It's Cunt. What's her, no, what's that, what's her name? What is it? Britt McKinney. Britt McKinney, for those of you who don't know about this, there's an ESPN reporter, Britt McKinney.

She gets her car towed and she's at the place where she gets her money to get her car untoed and the ladies, you know, she's saying to the ladies shit like, I'm on TV and you don't have any teeth in your mouth. How does that feel? She's saying really like nasty, selfish, awful shit to this woman till finally she says to her, I'm gonna sue you, I'm gonna sue you people after this.

And the tow clerk says, all right, well, I'm just gonna upload what you said to the internet. And you can almost see like the slow motion turn as she gazes at the camera and realizes that her moment of deep, awful, shitty selfishness has been captured and it got uploaded and for the rest of human history, that little blip of selfishness will roll through time. It will go on and on and on and on and on and on forever

is an example of how not to be. If that's not education reform, I don't know what is. That's a great teaching. Yeah. But there's other ways to teach and so that I, and I'm not saying be kind and sweet and forgive people because somebody might be recording it, but I think any reason to be kind and sweet

is a good reason to be kind and sweet. If you wanna make that your Jesus on the road to Damascus, just the idea that we're being recorded all times, do it. If that makes you a kinder, sweeter, nicer person. But the whole point is that this thing that we're all doing right now today, gathering here together to have a conversation with each other and to listen to a conversation

between me and Abby, this is a brand new thing. This is brand new. This is new. This has not happened before and it would never have happened if not for the technology that is now in every single person's hands right here. You have in your pocket the ability to transmit conversations, ideas, thoughts,

whatever you want to the entire planet instantaneously. And this was not available to our species. This has only become available to our species in the last 15 or 20 fucking years and that's crazy, which is why right now it's so important to make sure that as we continue this incredible acceleration in the direction of what they call the technological singularity that as we're moving forward

at this amazing speed that you, every single person here, you figure out a way to harmonize yourself so that the information that you're transmitting to the universe when it does inevitably get duplicated and sit in the time forever, it's a beautiful thing and not some kind of, some kind of fart. You don't want your fart to go on forever, which is what that, you want the thing that goes on forever

to be that one sweet moment that you had between you and someone that you love. And here's the thing, even if it doesn't get captured by a camera, even if it doesn't get picked up by a cell phone, it's being picked up by the biological computer inside your brain. It's being picked up by what is still the most advanced technology on planet Earth,

which is your nervous system and the nervous system of all those people around you. And based on what's being discovered right now in epigenetics, the phobias and fears and potentially the loves that we all feel, those things actually get genetically encoded and transmitted to your children and to their children. So all your beautiful acts and all your terrible acts

could potentially forever go rolling forward into time, which is why we have to be very kind right now because those great acts as they go rolling forward into time are being amplified and accelerated by technology. That's my rant, thanks you guys. Thank you. Today's guest on the Duncan Trestle Family, our podcast is a journalist for Media Roots.

She recently had a show on RT Russia Today called Breaking the Set. When I bring her up, do you think we could all just sing the theme song for the podcast? Okay, so everybody please open your third eyes and spread as much love as you can in the direction of Abby Martin. Welcome, welcome all of you.

Glad you are with us. Shake hands, no need to be blue. Welcome to you. Abby Martin everybody, let her hear it. You spilled the beer already. I spilled beer already, I'm sorry. Cool man, wow, thank you so much for being on the show Abby. Thank you for inviting me man.

No, this is really, you're a perfect guest for what we've been talking about here tonight, but I just wanna talk about, what's it like working for Putin? We had conference calls every morning, he's actually a really good guy. I call him Pat Putin. Shut up.

Did you ever meet him? I wish man, no, I never met him. He was as far as removed from the structure as you could imagine. Really? Yeah. But somehow involved, right? He had to be somehow involved.

I mean, it's surreal to think that he might have watched me on TV. Yeah. I mean, that's fucking weird. He's cool though, kinda. He's a weird dude. I'm not saying he's good. Being good and cool don't have to meet man,

but you got it, if you don't think Putin's cool, what the fuck man? He's kinda that's part of his charisma, right? I just picture him like, you know the shirtless horse photo? Yes. Him just like flying around on a Pegasus, like glistening, you know,

sort of like baby oil rubbed all over his body. I mean it was- I picture that every morning. I know that you do. Actually I have a photoshop of that. You just told me you jerked off to it. I am. I'm gonna lie.

What was the question? I'd make love to Putin. I think it's important to have power structures that are holding each other in check. Right. Right, I think I know what you mean. You mean like we need a Putin. In the sense that like look at the Syria thing,

I mean there's different things that Putin is actually like deterring US hegemony and imperialism. Right. You know, that's kind of, weirdly enough what you're saying is what three of my Uber drivers have said to me. I'm not even joking man.

Like, so like get in a conversation, if you get the right Uber driver, get in a conversation with them about Putin because they love him because a lot of people in other parts of the world, they look at the United States as being this kind of terrible and exerable force that is unstoppable and any person regardless of his ethics

that stands in the way of that force is turned into a hero in the eyes of a lot of people. Right, and it's turned into, it's demonized in the eyes of the West. Right. Which we've seen incessantly. Yeah, right, I mean that's a really like, so how much of this stuff that we hear about Putin

is Western propaganda to make us think he's an asshole and how much of it is, this is our true asshole? I think he's an asshole. Okay. But I mean look, it's hard to be a leader of any country and not have a lot of fucking blood on your hands. So I don't like glorifying any leader, I don't like praising anyone who's leading the country.

Russia clearly has a lot of fucking problems, but I think that the incessant propaganda that we're seeing is all strategy. I mean it's cultivated because the military industrial complex needs that enemy. We need to keep manufacturing that enemy to keep justifying military spending. But it makes no sense because we're not looking

at communism versus capitalism anymore. We're looking at like dueling economic systems that are kind of on the same page in terms of oligarchies. Wow, that is fucked up. Yeah, that is so spooky to think about that. And to go back to what you said before, any leader has blood on his hands.

Except Obama. Except Obama. No blood on his hands, right? Zero. But it's true though, if you become president, you're gonna kill people. That's like guaranteed, right? Like there's no way around that.

So anybody running for president knows I will kill people. Like I am going to kill somebody. You know what, fuck that. What's that? Why do you need to go in there and be like, I'm gonna kill people? Why can't you go in there and be like, you know what, I'm gonna be the first president

who's not gonna kill anyone. That's a great goal. You might be able to get elected just on that platform. Like you could probably just be like, I'm not really gonna do a great job. I'm kind of lazy, I'm gonna put off a lot of shit, probably, I don't like getting up past 11, but I promise you.

And you'll be assassinated on day one. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but that is like, to me, whenever I see Obama, and there's a lot of things about Obama that I like. For example, gay marriage, and the fact that marijuana seems to be getting legal because of, maybe because of him,

but it seems like a lot of great shit is happening under, is that weird? Do you think that's not because of him? I don't think that that's him. I mean, you have, Eric Holder was like straight up being like, we're gonna prosecute people for marijuana. Like he was just like, we're not even gonna respect state laws.

Obama at first said he, marriage was between a man and a woman. Dick Cheney, years before Obama was even in the limelight was saying that he supported gay marriage. So I guess on a progressive scale, Dick Cheney's comparable to Obama in terms of like, his likeability? Crazy.

But no, I mean, I think the marijuana issue shows that there's giant shifts happening in the country that the political system on a federal level just can't, they can't fight because they're losing, they're fighting a losing battle here and that's the same sex marriage and that's the marijuana reform. But then you have these rogue assholes in the DOJ

who are like, you know what, we're gonna still prosecute medical marijuana users. You're like, all right, what? Like, how does it make any sense? How does that make any sense? Are they doing that? I don't know. You don't know why there's no...

Oh, well, money. It's just money. I mean, you have big pharmaceutical industry, which is, you know, the US is one of two countries in the world that has direct or consumer advertising. Big Pharma is spending hundreds of millions of dollars in your lobbying Congress. And yeah, I mean, that's basically the main driver,

like opposing marijuana legalization. So you're saying that there's, what's the DEA? Oh yeah, Michelle Lienhart. Yeah, she was just, I don't know, did she resign or did she let go? She's resigning. Okay, that's amazing. She had to resign.

Michelle Lienhart was, what, can you talk about her a little bit? Yeah, so she was the head of the DEA, which is the Drug Enforcement Agency, and it's incredible. There's this amazing clip of her and Jared Polis. He's a congressman and he's drilling her about why marijuana is a Schedule I drug,

which is the same as heroin and methamphetamine. He's just like, is marijuana more addictive than methamphetamine? She's like, I don't, all legal drugs are addictive and bad. And he's like, but no, you're the head of the Drug Enforcement Agency. Like, you should know this. And it's just like grilling her.

And she just looks like she's like on Xanax. She's like, it's so good, man. And so she's, but the thing is she couldn't tell the truth because then that would make her explain why marijuana is a Schedule I. So she had to keep doubling down on that bullshit. So a woman like that, you're saying that it's not just an ideological stance

that she's taking, it's that there's actual money going into her bank account from lobbyists and from the prison industrial complex. She's actually getting money from them somehow. It's the pressure. And this is the way DC works, is that it's filtered through multiple think tanks, front groups, lobbyist organizations.

So you wouldn't see like a direct check from Pfizer in her bank account, but you'd see it filtered through. And the pressure that she gets from her, all the people. How does it get filtered through? How does that look? How does the filtering look? Well, that's why it's so complicated.

I mean, like House of Cards style of shit. That's the way the city works. It really does. So you have like all of these think tanks basically like drafting policy and perpetuating all this stuff. And it can be completely happening outside of the political arena

where no one who's actually a sitting representative can even be drafting this stuff. It's all just done outside externally. Let's talk about those think tanks for a second. Is that something that's incredibly disturbing to me to imagine that there are groups of highly intelligent people who get together for meetings

and highly intelligent people when they look at the United States drug policy have gotta think, oh yeah, this is fucked. Like there's nothing good about this. This is the most ridiculous, incredibly awful, unethical thing that could possibly exist on the planet right now, which is that we are taking human beings

who are farmers and growing plants out of the ground and we're putting them into dungeons for their entire lives. That is beyond, like you can't even, like that is so truly evil to think about. But there's, so there's groups of people paid lots of money who know, oh no, that's evil. Yeah, we definitely shouldn't put farmers in the dungeons.

That's horrible. How much are you paying again? Oh, a hundred million dollars, whatever. Oh, great, okay, we'll get them in the dungeons. Don't worry, we can figure it out. There's lots of ways to imprison farmers, lots of ways. Gotta fill those quotas, bro. Whoa.

Gotta fill those quotas. And that is on paper. Private prisons have to fill beds every night. That is contractually obligated. Wait, say that again, they have to fill a certain number of beds. Right. So like if you're running a prison

and there's like 30 beds that aren't filled. You gotta fill that shit, man. Somebody calls you and it's like, you gotta fill that shit, man. Don't you know where the farmers are? Like get your fucking fill those with farmers. Put some farmers in there. What's the percentage of people in prison?

Isn't there a percentage? Yes, no. Nonviolent drug offenders, what's that percentage? I don't know that exact percentage, it's a lot though. I wanna say like up to 30. I mean, that might be insane. Let's ask them, do you guys know that percentage? Yeah, does anyone know that?

It's not 80. No, definitely not. What? 30 or 40, that's what I'm saying. 30 to 40, non drug offenders? Is it drug offenders? Nonviolent drug offenders, I'm sure. 30 to 40%?

It's what? I'm just gonna believe you because it lets me get really passionate about it, but that's fucked up! 51%. Let's say it's not 50, let's say it's 30%, whatever it is, but the idea that in our, like in the dungeons of our country, 30 to 51% of the people there,

zero to 100% of people in prison right now are nonviolent drug offenders. Any percentage, fucking unbelievable, man. Any percentage, any percentage is- No, it's absolutely insane. And you look at the rest of the world, I mean, as much as we wanna talk about police states in other country,

the U.S. has 5% of the world's population, 25% of its prisoners. Whoa. Say that again, please. 5% of the world's population, 25% of the world's prisoners. Or in the United States. Right.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, there must be- We just have more criminals than the rest of the world, you guys. Yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot of assholes here, that's all, man. The rest of the world's fine. I mean, and then the drug war bleeds into so much, too.

That's what's so insane, the Mexican, that all the violence in Latin America, all the refugee problems, so you have all these hardline conservatives who just hate immigrants, right? But they don't wanna look at the system that produces people who are fleeing drug wars based on Nixon's bullshit war on drugs.

No, it's- Awesome. There you go. And look at Afghanistan, wow, that really fucking worked, huh? No opium coming out of there. 90% of the world's opium now, heroin is coming from Afghanistan,

a country that the US military has been occupying for the last 14 years. How does that happen? Isn't, now let's get kinda, let's get into some conspiracy land here, right? Cause this is like, you know, isn't one of the ideas in conspiracy theories that the reason that opium

has not been curtailed in Afghanistan during the occupation of the United States is because drugs are one of the ways that the CIA funds its black ops. Is that, the audience thinks it's true? Look, I deal in conspiracy fact and there's nothing actually documenting yet

the fact that the US is overseeing or somehow running drugs out of Afghanistan, but we did it with the Contras in Nicaragua. I mean, we ran Coke, Michael Rupert exposed that shit, the crack epidemic in LA. And I'm sorry, but a country that the US has been occupying for 14 years, don't you think that we kind of have like,

like guard towers and shit? Like, you know, like, like seeing people just like funneling giant bags of opium. And there's actually an amazing report that Geraldo did of all people in Afghanistan where he's like, he's like, yeah, he's like, you know, the troops, he's like walking around and like talking to American troops.

And they're just like, there's guarding opium fields with like AKs and these farmers are just like harvesting opium. And when the Taliban was there, they had eradicated 90% of the opium crop. Wow. Right. Fuck them. You ever smoked opium?

Bad opium. It's pretty great. Right. It is. It's great. By the way, don't do it. It's very addictive, but no, I mean, and think of the great poetry opiums produced.

It's produced some incredible Reed Samuel Taylor Courage or HP Lovecraft or it's an amazing, it's an amazing creativity drug, you know? So I can understand why the Taliban would want to crack down on it because you don't want people using any kind of psychoactive substance if you're trying to like make them believe in some bullshit religion.

Right. I mean, all wars are about resources and control. So, I mean, the US is actually missing out if they're not actually putting it, putting invested interest in the opium trade right now. But here, I mean, so in the same way that you were talking, to go back to, how does the money get into the pockets of corrupt DEA agents?

It's not like Pfizer was giving them money directly to their bank accounts, but here's where it gets really sinister to me, is it's the way the money in a diffuse way in an untraceable way still gets into their pockets. It reminds me a lot of, were you, did you come from a dysfunctional family at all? No, surprisingly, no.

Okay, let me tell you a little bit about what that's like. If you're in a dysfunctional family, where the mother and the father are having problems with each other, and if you do something fucked up and the mother and the father start fighting while after you've done something fucked up, your fucked up thing will be forgotten

because of this war between the mother and the father. Weirdly, you start benefiting from the destruction of the marriage because if your mom and dad are fighting, no one's gonna pay attention to the shitty things that you're doing. In the same way, it's like, that's the kind of benefit that we're talking about here,

which is that, if we're in a place that's the number one producer of opium in the world, and if we're a country that believes that opium is so terrible that we need to keep it out of the bloodstream of the people at all costs, and anyone selling heroin or opium or anything related to opium,

they're so vile and terrible that they need to be locked up for their entire lifetimes and that people who are addicted to the substance instead of sending them to rehabilitation centers, they need to be locked up from their entire lifetimes, you would think a country that really believed opium was that terrible while invading this country

that was producing all the opium would be like, and we're also getting rid of that fucking evil opium, guys. Instead, they're like, guard the opium. Let's guard that shit. Guard that, do not let anyone burn that. Don't drop bombs on the opium field, please. We need that stuff, man, because when the opium is flowing

then into the United States, then what it is doing is it's filling all those empty beds in the prisons and it's bringing all this incredible money to people in these diverse ways, and that's pretty spooky to think about. And guess what else? Big pharma needs opium latex to manufacture pills. Really?

Yeah. That's fucking crazy to think about. That's crazy to think about. So why, with all this stuff being kind of common knowledge, why does it keep happening? How come we can't stop it? Why does it keep happening? War is based on conventional wisdom.

I mean, look at the entire war on terror. War is terror. War is the biggest act of terrorism you can do. So to have a war on a tactic that is war itself is fucking bat shit crazy. So people just believe these things, right? We're fighting a war on drugs. We're fighting a war on terrorism.

Meanwhile, the US is partners with Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter of terror in the war. Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter of terror in the world. So what does that mean, exporter of terror? I don't understand. I hear that said a lot, but I never know what that means. What does that mean? So Saudi Arabia is probably the most bastardized version

of Islam, and it's basically been state sanctioned. And the US. This is Wahhabi, is that what it is? This is Wahhabism, yeah. It's like the most orthodox interpretation of Islam. And Saudi Arabia has openly trained ISIS fighters. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, actual members of the Kingdom-funded Al Qaeda, this is all on paper.

There's a whole movement called the 28 Pages Movement that's trying to redact and declassify these 28 pages that prove that Saudi Arabian royal officials were intimately involved in the 9-11 attacks. How do you know that's what those pages say? Because congressmen have said it, that have seen the pages. So there's 28 pages in the, this is the 9- This is a joint inquiry that was conjoined

with the 9-11 commission report. So it was like a separate joint inquiry after the 9-11 commission, and during like the investigation from the government. And it basically is all about what foreign governments were involved. So we're told that it was all a bunch of rogue agents that we had no idea what was coming,

but really there's this tiny section that shows that there were multiple governments involved, and that we knew about it. And one of them is our biggest ally that we continue to fund and partner ourselves with. How involved, this is something where, this is where I start getting like the real hippie heebie-jeebies to think about this,

because this is crazy to think about. Cause I remember, one thing I remember hearing, and I don't know where you are as far as like being a 9-11 truth or where that goes, or what was going, like if you take the most extreme version of the September 11th story from a conspiracy theorists standpoint, then the most extreme narrative is that

the Bush administration wanted to go to war with Iraq, and they needed a reason to go to war with Iraq, and so they basically orchestrated this attack so that people would be like, it would drive all of us crazy with fear and anger, and then come up with, it would allow the war machine to move into Iraq, which they had unsuccessful, they hadn't figured out a way to do that yet.

So that's like the ultra-conspiracy theorists' notion of it. And it's really weird because you hear one of the truth, like there's true things, right? I'm not talking about the thermite residue they found. Is that true? Do they really find thermite in the rubble? Is that bullshit? That is apparently what they found.

So they found, so for those of you guys who don't know, they did find thermite in the rubble of these buildings, right, and what is thermite? Thermite's an explosive incendiary. It's an ex- What is that? Okay, so they found, so is there any, both of you are asking both of you?

Let's take that whole argument out. I mean, that's like a, you know, the buildings were blown up, all that stuff, but I think that- Why take the argument out? Because I think that this is all unprovable shit, right? I think that the problem when we deal with conspiracy theories is that it's been so demonized.

This is actually a CIA campaign after Kennedy was assassinated. This is all documented. That the CIA, I feel like Alex Jones, I got the papers! I have the documents! No, I mean, no, I mean, they want, Watergate was, not Watergate.

The commission after Kennedy was questioned by a lot of people. And so the CIA was like, look, people are questioning this investigation. These are all conspiracy theories. So there was this memo to inject, and this was all Operation Mockingbird. It was an operation during the Cold War

to kind of muddy the word conspiracy theory and paint everyone who was a conspiracy theorist with kind of this broad brush to demonize everyone who has questions about official narratives. The thing is, if you don't question official narratives, then you're an idiot. And the government lies about everything.

There's never been one impetus of war in the past, I don't know, forever, that hasn't been either altered or manufactured or embellished in order to justify endless war for- Let's go through it real quick. Vietnam, what was that? What was the- The Gulf of Tonkin literally never happened.

That literally never fucking happened. For those of you who don't know, can you just quickly describe what that is? Yeah, so we basically said that a ship was down by like Japanese, I'm sorry, Vietnamese forces, and it turned out that it really never, literally never happened. And this is documented.

This is all documented. So this is not a conspiracy theory anymore. This is real. No, I like to call them state crimes against democracy instead of conspiracy theories because there's no differentiation between the most batshit conspiracy theories that exist and actual real conspiracy theories.

Wall Street is a conspiracy theory. The military industrial complex conspires on a daily basis how to make money. There was just this top CEO of Lockheed Martin speaking to Deutsche Bank, this analyst for Deutsche Bank, and this was published on the Intercept by a journalist named Lee Fong.

And it's a phone call between them where the Deutsche Bank guy is being like, you know, I'm really worried that a diplomatic negotiation with Iran would depress weapons sales. What? They have that on tape? Yes.

If, I mean, that is a conspiracy theory. Like you, you're conspiring on how to make more money. Who uploaded the tape? I don't know, but it exists. That is fucking nuts. And it's also not a conspiracy theory. Wait, a guy got on the phone. Right.

Like, who was the guy who got on the phone? A top Deutsche Bank dude. So like a Deutsche Banker, like a Deutsche Bank guy. Talking to the CEO of Lockheed Martin. Like the week before the phone call. Right. He's like eating with his family and he's kind of bummed out and his wife's like,

what's wrong? He's like, ah, just this fucking Iran, baby. We're not gonna go to war with Iran. I don't think we're not gonna sell as many weapons if we don't go to war with Iran. Don't worry, honey, we'll go to war with Iran. It's okay. It's okay.

Why don't you do something good Why don't you do something about it? Do you think he was like, ah, I guess I just have to get used to the idea that we're not gonna go to war with Iran? And then he read like a self-help book. It's like, believe in yourself. It's like the secret.

If you imagine it, it'll come. You know what I'm gonna do, I had told him that you can just blow up. No, I mean, back to 9-11 though, I don't think it's a conspiracy theory to look at the, not only the PDB, that daily briefing that Condoleezza Rice lied about, how it said Bin Laden determined to strike from the US.

Years later, we found out that it was dozens and dozens and dozens of presidential daily briefings to the highest echelons of government from the FBI, the NSA, the CIA. They just, all their wires were crossed, but it's like, I'm sorry, I just, I don't think it's out of the question to think that someone as demonic as Cheney turned a blind eye

at the very least, considering what we know. Right, so this is, you know, now this is the interesting, you know about the weather underground, of course, I'm sure you do. So, didn't the weather underground, and I don't think it's just them, but a lot of people think that ignoring violence is violence. Have you ever heard that idea before?

So if you see somebody getting attacked and you don't do anything about it, you're part of the attack. Like, that is a violent act. If you see anything going on where there's someone being hurt and you don't do what you can do to stop it, then you're committing violence. So the weather underground, the idea was,

you know, we have to bring the war back home so that people could understand what violence is like if you live in one of these countries and they started blowing up government buildings and stuff so that people could see this. So this turning the blind eye thing, if that really was all it was, that Cheney or whoever, someone turned a blind eye

to the potentiality of those buildings having a plane flown into them, that's the same thing. That's, isn't that the same thing as like making it happen? Right. So I know that you, I don't know what to think about September 11th. I think it's a very foggy, weird, confusing thing to think about, but God damn it, man.

What to me, regardless of the reason it happened or who made it happen, whether it was a group of terrorists living in some cave in Afghanistan or whether it was a small cobble of people or whether it was the guy from Deutsche Bank or whoever the fuck did it, I think that what's really sad about September 11th is right after it happened, there was at least,

and I think this is a small number, but there was at least 10 people on planet Earth who were like, oh fuck, we just made a lot of money, we're gonna make a lot of fucking money off of this and that is spooky to think about, isn't it? The dudes from the project for a new American Century going back to think tanks here in DC, PNAC was like the most sinister think tank of all,

it had Rumsfeld, Cheney, the Bush, all the Bush family and shit on it, they wrote a document basically called Rebuilding America's Defenses and in the document they said absent a catalyzing catastrophic event like a new Pearl Harbor, we will not be able to instate our new wave of hegemony and imperialism in the world and that was like written in June of 2001.

So the very least- What document is that in? Rebuilding America's Defenses and Project for a New American Century. Who wrote that? A bunch of motherfuckers. A bunch of neocon psychopaths and I mean, at the very least, they looked at 9-11

and they were like, we're gonna make a lot of fucking money. Wow, so here's like, this is something I think about a lot, you know the way an anaconda kills somebody? The movie with J-Lo on it? What's that? Oh, I thought you were talking about the movie, I mean, there's a snake, just in general anaconda. I'm just trying to get out of the conspiracy shit

so we can talk about J-Lo. Because that's really all I've been wanting to talk about with you, this whole, no, you know the way an anaconda kills, right? The way an anaconda kills is so fucked up. It's so terrifying the way it kills because what it does is if you are so unfortunate is to have an anaconda wrapped around your body,

what the thing does is every time you breathe out, it tightens a little bit, it squeezes in and the more that it does that, so with every exhalation, you're one step closer to death because every time you breathe out, it tightens and tightens and tightens and tightens. So, as a form of, like if they're really, like so if there were power structures

in the world right now, they would probably know, you know what, we don't really have to orchestrate anything. If we just wait long enough, there's gonna be an event that happens, just based on the fact that there's all this, you know, there's untold amounts of biological weapons scattered throughout the planet. There's untold amounts of nuclear devices

and weaponry scattered throughout the planet. There's ridiculous factions of these insane, brainwashed, lunatic, religious people that make the Phelps family seem like a fucking Easter parade. I don't even know what a Easter parade is, but I don't know if that's gonna happen, but there are these groups of people in the world who are so not afraid of death

and are totally cool with dying and are so desperate or sad or whatever the fuck it is, that they're totally cool with dying. So, if there were power structures, they know, listen, just wait, something's gonna happen. And when it happens, here's what we do. We go into Iraq, we go into Afghanistan, here's the next war we rate, wage,

anytime these things happen. And to me, that's a really, really horrifying idea to imagine, and even as I talk about it, I think like, how the fuck do we turn this podcast in the direction of the positive? Because I'm scaring myself. Even though, even though, yeah, they don't need to orchestrate a defense,

it doesn't mean that they haven't in the past, like the Gulf of Tonkin scenario or like Operation Northwoods, where they were actually talking about blowing up the airliners in Florida with people, like actually bombing people to justify going to war with Cuba. So he's in 1967, thankfully, Kennedy turned it down,

but Robert McNamara, which was the joint chiefs of staff at the time, proposed this. It went all the way to the top and proposed the scenario. Okay, so let's just, for the sake of this conversation, imagine that there is a force on this planet, an organized force, semi-organized force on this planet, which represents a group of people who are so asleep that they think it's okay to make money

from turning people into hamburger meat. I think that's safe to say. There's a group of people on the planet who, I know there's weapons manufacturers, I know there's people who like have meetings in boardrooms where they're like, boss, I just came up with the greatest idea for a new fucking weapon. Listen to this.

It really is gonna be a million times cheaper than the current way that we're turning people into hamburger meat. So it's gonna be great. Like somebody in the middle of the night. Some people wake up in the middle of the night and they're like, man, I just thought of the best fucking weapon.

This fucking thing is great. I mean, the sad is that all of the smartest people on the planet are used to, like their intelligence is used to amplify death and destruction. Right. That's what trips me out. Yeah, and the other trippy thing about it

is a lot of the technology that we're currently enjoying today, it through the internet, it's military technology. A lot of the funding comes from the military. A lot of the great innovations that happen in the world happen via DARPA, Lockheed Martin, all the great weapons manufacturers in the world. And it's really curious how their technology

ends up leaking out into society and isn't used for destruction anymore. It gets used for the exact opposite thing. But let's imagine we have a group of people on the planet making money from incinerating human beings. It's a weird thing to think about, but it's true. To put it in perspective, it's like,

imagine if you could take an Afghani baby to an ATM machine. And there was a door that opened up in the ATM machine. I think I said this on your show, I'm gonna repeat it. There's a door that opened up in the ATM machine and you could put the baby in a blender and the door dropped and you pressed a button and it blended the baby and then gave you 10 grand.

Right? That's kind of how it works. Right? That's actually exactly how it works. That's almost exactly how it works. Because each of those bombs that they drop, so I don't know how much a bomb, how much does one, do you have any idea how much a bomb

from a drone costs, like one bomb? No. Anyone know that idea? Okay, let's say it's half a million dollars. Thank you so much. Let's say it's half a million dollars per, it's a really expensive to drop those bombs. They're not cheap, man.

I know it's like 100K for sure. So $100,000 bomb is paid for by us. We pay for those bombs, right? So $100,000 bomb gets paid for, someone gets the money for the bomb. Whoever's producing the bombs for the drones use, who produces those bombs? I mean, all the defense contractors, yeah.

Lockheed Martin, Raytheon. Raytheon, Raytheon, let's say Raytheon. So Raytheon gets a certain amount of money from the United States government every year and in exchange they give the United States government a certain number of bombs. And then the United States government drops those bombs onto sometimes theoretically terrible people,

but sometimes kids, wedding parties, children. So if $100,000 bomb drops on 10 to 20 people. Then you get a baby milkshake. You get a milkshake, that's what I'm trying to get at. If $100,000 bomb drops on 20 people, what's 20 into 100,000? Does anyone know that? I should know that.

What? We gotta stop smoking pot, you guys. Yeah, don't throw up math equations. Yeah, back to education reform. The point is, it's a certain way. We have to stop smoking weed, man. We slow it down a little bit. But I mean, what do they fucking think is gonna happen?

You bomb the hell out of the Middle East, back into the Stone Ages, and then ISIS erupts in. And they're like, oh my God, how did ISIS get here? It's like, I don't know, did you fucking bomb the rock to like oblivion? Right, right. So that's the thing. So it's clear that there is an organized group of people

making money out of creating chaos on planet Earth and killing people. So we know that's the case. So that's definitely happening. I think you can almost with 100% certainty say that is definitely happening on this planet. So then the question is, what do we do about it, Abby? What are we supposed to do?

What does the individual do about this? Because every single thing that we've been talking about is entertaining and scary and awesome and dire as it is. It does have, as a byproduct, the feeling of being completely disempowered. When I think about this, I think, what the fuck could I actually do to stop these kinds of things from happening in the world?

What are people saying is an actionable, what is an actionable way that we can reduce this kind of corporation or this way of making money? How can we stop this from happening on our planet? Well, I think the first thing is realizing that it's not like an evil, sinister elite, like the Illuminati or New World Order or something. That's bullshit.

It's people who actually think that they're doing something right. These people actually believe that the US should take over the planet and kill people for the good of sustaining US civilization or whatever the fuck they think. So they're not sitting up there praising the fucking devil before they draft up war plans and say,

how are we gonna kill people and make money? So I think that, if you think that that is reality, then of course it's disempowering because you're like, holy shit, these people are like evil gods, these evil geniuses who we can't touch and they're in these back rooms and it's all smoky and shit.

No, they are just normal people. They're walking around DC. I see them. I just saw Robert Kagan's sister and I was like, yo, let's take a selfie, bitch. I love your brother. This is a dude who works with Bill Crystal who is in that new PNAC think tank called FBI now.

But I think the first thing is realizing that they're just human beings and it's all based on a really toxic ideology that is dying and the more people realize that we're not the best country in the world, that we can't do whatever the fuck we want, that we're not better than everyone, that's the kind of consciousness shift that is happening.

It's been happening and it's happening around the world and people in America just need to get it and really utilize the tools, become media literate. And that's why you guys are all here. You listen to Duncan and Joe Rogan and these people are the media. We are the media. We're making corporate media irrelevant.

Corporate media drives on fear and war because their sponsors and advertisers are Raytheon and Boeing and General Electric and all these things that's why you don't hear about net neutrality. That's why you don't hear about the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new coup d'etat that's coming, the trade deal.

So it comes with- Wait, what is that? Hold up. When you're saying media literacy, I'm like, oh God, I don't know, man. I wanna be more media literate, but what is that? And I wanna pretend I know what you're saying. What's the, what was the Trans-Pacific?

Trans-Pacific Partnership, it's the TPP. You know the disastrous consequences that NAFTA and TAPTA had and all these things that happened across, yeah. They've like, you know, disintegrated jobs and made things really like, like cost more. Well, the Trans-Pacific Partnership is basically NAFTA on steroids.

It's a deal between 12 Pacific Asian countries, the US, Australia, and it's going to instill a, like a judicial system outside externally of all these countries that's comprised of lawyers, corporate lawyers, and it'll be this kind of tribunal where these people can usurp the national sovereignty of all the countries involved. So it'll be like, let's say, for example,

the US Bands GMOs. Monsanto, whose lawyers are sitting on the board of the TPP, can be like, you know what? We're gonna go ahead and overturn that law. Wow. So it's basically, that's why people are saying it's a corporate coup, because there literally is like a corporate contingent of lawyers

that can overturn national laws. And the problem with the bill is that there's all these chapters, they go from intellectual property rights to medicine prices to all this shit, and no one has seen the text, not even Congress, only a very specific group of people who are involved in it have seen it.

WikiLeaks has leaked, I think, two chapters so far, and it looks awful. I mean, the Stop Online Piracy Act, SOPA, the bill that Aaron Swartz, like, died saying we need to defeat this, and it did get defeated, while TPP is basically going to take the worst of that bill and instate it globally. And Obama is about to fast-track this shit through,

which means fast-tracking it through, like, without even Congress being able to read it. And it's had, like, 700, like, private attorneys, and corporate CEOs. But what do we do? How do we stop? I know, I know, back to what we do, like, you sidetracked me, I know,

I'm like making everyone more defeated. Shit. I think, okay, it comes with a consciousness. It comes with realizing that we have the power to change things. It comes with realizing that the system doesn't speak for us, that we're not fucking crazy, because we don't want two parties,

that we don't want political dynasties to rule over us, and perpetuate endless militarism. We can do better than that. It comes with us realizing that we can do better than that, reaching out to our community, realizing that people are like-minded, building that momentum, building our own alternatives. It's happening.

It's already happening. The media doesn't tell us. But how, so every single person here, you guys live in DC, so you're more connected, I think like, when I think about what you're saying, reaching out to my community and all that stuff, it's like, I'm never gonna do that. Like-

Like, DPP, I guess it's gonna happen, man. I don't see how, I'm interested in what turned, you're an activist. You're a person who is very, you're clearly incredibly passionate about this, and you've made an entire life about getting this information out into the world and trying to fight against these power structures.

What pushed you from the place of being a person like me, who's like, I don't know, I hate it, it's awful, I like thinking about it, I can talk about it on my podcast, but what pushed you from being a passive person to actively trying to fight against these kinds of social constructs? Well, I was this privileged white idiot

living up in the suburbs of the Oakland Bay Area and just totally did not know what the fuck was going on, and my boyfriend at the time joined the military because of 9-11, and then when he went to boot camp, not even Iraq, boot camp, he became this like, psychotic asshole, and I was like, wow, that's what the fucking fucking boot camp did to you? Like, you're not even fucking seeing war, bro.

And then I went to college, and I immediately like, I remember taking a sociology class and reading the book Blowback by Chalmers Johnson, and literally one chapter of that book is about Okinawa, Japan, and what like, the US bases there, it's like one of the most militarized places in the world. And of course, when the US goes in and invades a country,

it doesn't leave, we have 900 bases around the world right now. That is just one case study of what militarism does to basically eviscerate culture and destroy culture, and it was just awful, it was devastating, and that was just one, like a microcosm of the entire system, and so it made me realize, holy shit, what is going on?

So I totally became against a war, and then I was like, fuck y'all, like my boyfriend, I was like, eh, I don't think it's gonna work out. But after that, I mean, the Iraq war was starting, and in San, I was living in San Diego at the time, it's the most heavily concentrated military base city in the country as well. So the Iraq war started, and I was all about like,

I hate Bush, Bush is like driving us in this war, but then I was like, wait, this isn't just Bush, this is about the Democrats too. So I became very cognizant of the fact that both parties were selling the war and selling lies, Nancy Pelosi's like, impeachment's off the table, you're like, but he's a fucking war criminal, we can impeach him very easily.

And then I realized that basically media was the platform, and honestly Duncan, I don't have all the answers, but I know that we're in an information war right now. There's propaganda wars being peddled at us on a daily basis, and it's up to us to filter that down, to discern what the truth is, take our own perspectives from a variety of media sources, and become literate and conscious,

and honestly, that's all we can do. And I believe that getting the information out is the number one thing we need, and people can make their own decisions, because I don't wanna tell people what to do, I don't know what the answer is, but I know that if all of us aren't formed enough, we can be better people,

and we can make better decisions for ourselves, and what's better for our communities and our families. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Do you think that it's better, would it be better to turn off your phone,

to throw your phone away, turn off the TV, cut off all information, inflows into your life, and just try to be a kind person? Do you think that that is a cowardly reaction, all this? Because sometimes with everything that you're saying, get the good information, then get that good information out in the world. Sometimes I think about, so you know,

Ram Dass talks about how there's these varying frequencies that we can tune into, right? So on one frequency, we have this thing that you're talking about, which is we exist on a planet where a very small percentage of our species is figured out a way to turn war into profit, and so they want war to keep happening.

And within that paradigm, there's an infinitely complex web of connections that lead eventually to you, to everyone sitting here today, because we all pay taxes. So that's really happening. That's one frequency that we're existing on, right? That's the frequency of the time period

that we're currently existing in. Then there's another frequency, right? There's another frequency happening. That's the frequency where no matter what happens on this planet, we're all gonna die. Everyone's gonna eventually, we're all being aerosolized by time. We're all going to be completely,

like I don't know how old you are, but within like 30 years statistically, maybe 40, I'm done, like it's over. We're all kind of like shot out of a vagina. I love saying that, into infinity without a parachute. And we're just falling. All of us right now, we're all falling through time in the direction of oblivion.

And to get caught up in these things that you're talking about, and that I think about all the time, to get caught up in these things, is it a waste of time? No, because that's the antithesis of the ego. The ego would be to just like obsess about, this is my life, I only have one shot, it's all about fucking me, right?

Like so realizing that you're fucking nothing, you're a speck of dust flying on a fucking shooting spaceship in the universe, and that your life is such a fucking speck of nothingness in the grand scheme of existence, that that's why I've sacrificed my life that I'll die doing what I'll do. I'll die in the streets to get the truth out

and the information out, because that's what I feel is bigger than me. I'm nothing compared to the information that I'm trying to put out there. Woo! Yeah, yeah. Cool. Great answer!

That's so cool. Do you ever worry about that though? I mean, you must worry a little bit about that. I mean, with all these revelations coming out with the NSA and like, you are one of the most vocal people about this stuff. You had your own TV show where you were regularly getting this information

out into the world and the TV show was being funded by Russia and you live in the United States. If anyone here is getting monitored right now, it's you, there's probably like a swarm of invisible DARPA drones around you right now, just like studying your brainwaves. Do you ever worry about that?

Do you ever think like, I'm probably gonna get arrested or, because one thing that like, and I worry about that, I worry about it a little bit myself because we like to believe that everything's gonna be fine. Like we like to believe that the United States

is gonna continue to be a completely open society and everything's gonna keep being open until we die, but if you look at history, you can see how quickly that can change, you know? One fucking, you know, all we need, like that awful, can you say that quote again about the Pearl Harbor we need, that sinister quote? Absent a catalyzing catastrophic event.

Catalyzing catastrophic. Like a new Pearl Harbor. Right, a catalyzing catastrophic event, right? A catalyzing catastrophic event. A catalyzing catastrophic, I love saying it. Let's say this again. Cat. Cat.

Cat. That event is, that's the sound for a lot of people, for many of us, it's the worst thing ever, but for a lot of people, a catastrophic event like that is the sound of the fucking slot machine siren going off. They're like, great! So like a lot of people want that event to happen and we're always, we're a couple of those away

from like laws, from that anaconda tightening even more. And when that happens, aren't you a little worried that people are gonna be like, someone will be like, we can't have a fucking loudmouth like you. Oh really, you're against war? Well look what fucking happened, asshole. You didn't want war to happen.

A fucking dirty bomb exploded in Manhattan because we weren't able to attack those people because of folks like you. You need to go to jail. Aren't you a little worried that that could happen? Well I think that if a dirty bomb went off in New York it would be because we're incessantly bombing the fuck out of multiple countries.

So I think that that starts like preventing future terrorist attacks, starts with stopping terrorism. And stopping this military intervention in the rest of the planet. But I'm not scared, I don't live in fear of the NSA. I try to be as open as I am, as I can be, about all my drug use, about everything, about my personal life, because I,

there's nothing that they can fucking get me on, man. Right. Nothing. Do you have a piece of tape on top of your camera? I do, because I don't wanna masturbate with the NSA watching me, but, that's the only thing. That's the only sign of protection. That sticker is the only sliver of like, privacy.

I take a little bit of pleasure in imagining the NSA watching me jerk off the point. To me, it's like you asshole, enjoy this motherfucker. You're like getting paid to watch this. You gotta watch like this hairy 40 year old jerk off the SNM porn. You deserve it. No, I don't think that anyone should live in fear.

Like, if I, I think that that is exactly what they want. The establishment thrives on fear. There's nothing they're more scared of than a populist not living in fear. Right. And so when the system drives on us being terrified of the other, of this manufactured enemy, you know, whether it be Islam or Russia or whatever,

brown people, that, it starts with stopping. Wait, they're brown people? I'm sorry, stupid joke. Yes, yes. I know what you're saying. Like they want us to be afraid. They want us to be divided. Right.

That's the idea. But again, it's that they. Right. It's they, it's like that they. It's like, you were saying it's like, it's not as nefarious as a group of religious people or like cultists intentionally blowing people up. It's people who think they're doing good.

Right. That's even worse to me. You know, it would be great. It would be better if there was like a small group of people who are worshiping the our God, Malik and believe that that'd be amazing because we can fight them. Right.

But it isn't like that. It's, it all comes back to the fact that everyone thinks they're right. Right. There's a group of people who think they're right and they think that what they're doing is exactly what this planet needs. It's that level of delusion.

How do we fight against that? How can we transform that into something positive? I'm really interested in that, in what I can do tomorrow. What can I do tomorrow? That. Well, TNT is not gonna like stop bombs from exploding, is it? Look.

Over. There you go. Well, no, I do know what you're saying. Like, I do know what you're saying. Like, I even, like a lot of people might hear that outburst as being like, yeah, what the fuck, man? You're, you're. Well, no, but I do know what you're saying.

Like, I do think there is a responsibility to tune into the truth, not just tune into the, not just tune into the truth in the sense of like the right media outlets, but tune into like the truth that's behind all that stuff, right? And there's a lot of access points to get to that truth. And there's a lot of ways people get to that truth.

One of those avenues is psychedelics, but there's a lot of other ways to get, to get to that truth as well. Are you a spiritual person? After doing drugs, yeah. Right. Right. But so, so you, are you an atheist?

Are you a theist? I think I'm agnostic. Agnostic, so. Yeah, cause I don't claim to know anything. Like, I don't know. You know, and I think that, I mean, I'm more likening toward atheism, but I don't claim to know that there's like nothing

because I feel like there is this interconnected energy between all of us on the planet. Yeah. And there's something that I don't, I can't explain everything through science. I don't know if science will eventually be able to explain everything, but I know that there are some things

that I can't explain through science that I've experienced that other people I know have experienced. Yeah. See that, that thing you're talking about that we can't explain. Like sometimes I think that the idea would be that the, and this is just really like maybe just like

in the face of all of this darkness that you're talking about and that I think about in the face of this absolute lovecraftian horror, I like to believe that there is a transcendent frequency that we can tune into and that we can bring that out into the world through our actions, that it's possible to do that. And that the trick is finding the access point

to communicate with that thing and then let that thing sort of be the wind in our sails, so to speak, as we move throughout the world. Do you have a thing like that that's the wind in your sails? Do you meditate or pray or do you have? Art. Art, there you go, that's cool. I have too much ADD to just sit there still,

I just keep thinking about shit, I can't meditate, man. So I have to just channel it into something that I'm doing, but my brain is dead when I'm doing this, so that's cool. I don't think about all this shit. You don't feel compelled by, God, forgive me for asking this question in front of an audience. From time to time, you don't feel like you're being compelled

by a greater force in your life? Well, I had this weird experience where I did this breathing meditation exercise and I felt like I had transcended to this, this is super weird to even talk about, but I transcended to, I was this woman in some bombed out area in the Middle East and I was just like, I don't know

if that's some past life shit or if I just had this experience where I felt like I was so connected to this person that I felt like it was me and so emotionally driven by that moment where I was that woman and I was in that area and like losing my children. And I think it all goes back to realizing that our consciousness doesn't end with me

and doesn't end with you. This is like something that we are brothers and sisters and it doesn't stop or start with nation states or borders. And once you realize how much your tax dollars, which by the way, over 50% of our tax dollars are going to war, also we're still paying the debt from the civil war, that's how far this shit goes. Once we realize that people who are dying in Gaza

or suffering in Detroit without water are brothers and sisters, I think that's where empathy needs to extend toward every corner of the earth where you can really realize that we are a family and all of this impacts everyone. And if the system is globalized, the struggle needs to be globalized. So it's easy to say like, yes,

let's remove ourselves from society and just hone in on your immediate family and existence and that's fine, like you're still making things better for yourself and the people immediately surrounding you. But I think that it's so entrenched internationally that we need to remove ourselves from like our own hub and at least just like start fucking just sharing that stuff, man, at least just start spreading that love

and spreading that consciousness. And you're right, it goes past. You have to understand this is a game. You know, participating in the two-party system, this political duopoly I call the two-party dictatorship, Hillary Clinton is a fucking war criminal. Jeb Bush is a war criminal, Rand Paul's an asshole. So, I mean, straight up, that's 2016.

How is Hillary Clinton a war criminal? Where do you want to start? At the first war crime. Well... Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. All right, well then, I'll start with the Iraq war vote. The what? Iraq war vote.

Oh, okay. Two million dead. Okay. Iraq and Afghanistan, so that's the start. But someone did an embedded investigation in Obama's National Security Cabinet and found, like, basically depicted that Hillary Clinton was on par with John McCain, in terms of her, like, utter war hawkishness

and trying to just drive war. So, that's where we're at right now. And if we continue to buy into this and keep giving them, like, a referendum to do all this shit, there are other parties. Like, people always guilt me and they're like, oh, you want Jeb Bush to win? It's like, yeah, I'm just not gonna vote for a war criminal.

Like, I'm not going to capitulate my moral compass to invest in a system that I don't believe works for us. But, despite the fascist takeover on the federal level, look at locally, man. Like, we are doing some shit. Tennessee just overturned civil asset forfeiture, which is where cops can just steal your property.

No shit. There's cities all across the U.S., like, repealing the National Defense Authorization Act, which says that the military can go and arrest you and you surf, like, city law and hold you indefinitely. I mean, these are things that are happening locally that, of course, the corporate media doesn't tell us, but that's how I'm driven every day.

That's how I'm empowered by knowing that people are fucking taking it upon themselves with ballot initiatives, with referendums, with city council people. I know it's really boring, but it's true. And that can make huge monumental seismic shifts. I think it's beautiful what you're saying. And it really is that thing where you're like,

I know it seems boring, but really, it's like, we've got to overcome that lazy thing where we want to be, you know, here's what it is. I want to be a fucking Jedi and have a lightsaber. And I want to have, like, an evil that I fight that looks like Darth Vader, and I want to be able to shove the lightsaber into the fucking evil and it dies.

But that's not where we're at, bro. We're at a very different place where we need to worry about what you're talking about on the local level. I need to get involved like that. We've got to get involved like that because we have to overcome just how incredibly fucking boring it sounds.

The idea of going to a city council meeting, are you kidding me? Like, that idea, that's like, oh God, to imagine, I'd rather go to a proctologist than go to a city council meeting. Like, the idea of getting involved at the local level and buying into the machine in the way that you're talking about for,

I think me and maybe for a lot of us, we like to, this is something that I've realized I do a lot. I like to pretend that my laziness is a revolutionary attitude. And it's not, man. It's just pure laziness. And what you're saying is that if we get involved, and it's so funny, like,

I bet there's like a government think tank that was like, here's what we got to do. Make getting involved in local government synonymous with being a boring asshole, and nobody'll do it. But if we start getting involved at that level, you're saying that we can create actual, real changes in the world. But at the same time, I don't want everyone to think

that they need to become a full-time fucking activist because of course we need to work. We need to make money. We live in a system right now that we don't have time. And so it makes us super disempowered, we're disillusioned. We think that we just need to remove ourselves totally. And then we want to see change really rapidly. Change takes generations.

Change takes fucking time, man. So you're doing what you do, dude. You're putting out information. Everyone can do what they can do. And it's about finding what speaks most to you, finding out what you can physically and mentally do, and not go past that capacity because you're gonna get burned out.

And just figure it out, man. All of us have a passion, all of us have a strength, all of us have some sort of talent that we can use to facilitate that information and spread that awareness. And it's beautiful. And the system makes us feel like we're fucking nothing and that we can't do anything.

You know, art and music are the first things cut from education reform. But I mean, no, like seriously, I mean, that's like what we need to hone in on. Got it. Beautiful. Abby Martin, everybody, let her hear it. So inspirational.

So inspirational. How can people find you? How can people find you? Medioroots.org right now until my next show is out, and that should be in September. And then abbeymartin.org is my art website. Thank you so much, you guys, and Duncan, you're amazing.

Thank you, Abby. Thank you so much. Beautiful conversation. Thank you. So we have a little bit of time, you guys. If anybody asks questions for us, there's a microphone right there. Feel free to hop up and let's get some questions.

A question for you. What do you think the biggest problem with the zeitgeist movement is? What's the biggest snag? Because fuck money, let's burn it all. Wait, I'm sorry, what was the end of that? What's the biggest problem with the zeitgeist movement? Why isn't it happening faster,

this resource-based economy that Peter Joseph goes on about? I'm really into that. I've done drafting, three-dimensional printing. You really don't need people to work anymore. We got machines to do all this stuff for us now. What's the biggest snag with that whole system? Or do you even see one? Sure, I don't like looking at people

who are presenting incredible opportunistic ventures as saying that there's flaws or problems with it. I see it as huge opportunities and beautiful avenues that we can emulate and take ideas from without saying we need this entire thing and we need to all embrace it. We just need to say this is fucking amazing, that's fucking amazing,

let's take aspects of that and implement it. So you don't really see any snags or problems or big- I mean, there's a lot of things that they're working out right now. And the more people get involved, we can all figure that along the way, but they are very democratic about it and really open to change and ideas.

So I think it's great. Fuck yeah, what do you think, Duncan? I think that was a good question for Abby, man. I don't have an answer for that one. All right, but you're awesome. Thanks, both of you. Thank you, brother, thanks, man. Duncan, I just want to shake your hand, man.

Thank you. Thank y'all. Hey, Duncan, we love you. Thank you so much for coming out here to DC. Thank you, brother. We're happy to have you every time. So keep coming back, please. I want to address, you know,

actually pretty much what you opened with and something you kind of alluded to with Abby, this tendency we have towards, in some direction, at least towards the greater good, towards kindness and towards love, towards doing the right thing and towards alleviating suffering. Do you think that this is,

this is just an opinion, obviously, but do you think this is a result of an external force? Or do you think that this is an emergent quality of the collective human consciousness? Great question. First of all, it's so funny if I just answer that, like I know. Let me tell you, when I plan this whole thing,

here's what I thought we'd do. Well, first of all, I think the external versus internal question is a question a lot of people have, especially when they take a psychedelic, for example. You take a psychedelic and you think to yourself, these visions that I'm seeing in my mind, there's no way that I'm producing this.

Like I feel like I'm looking at a thing that I just haven't been able to see before. And so you can go on and on and on with that question. You know, is it inside of me and it's producing this? Is it outside of me and it's producing this? But the real question is, where do you stop and where does the outside start? That's a real big question.

Where do you, where does the thing you're calling the internal stop and the external start? And that's a question that comes up in Buddhism, right, in the very start of Buddhism. It's just like, where do you think you are in that body of yours? Like, where do you think you're in, where, what part of your body is yourself, right?

So when you think about that at all, you realize like, shit, man, I can't, I don't know where I am in my body. Like I don't seem to be anywhere in my body at all. And then you realize, oh, the idea that I am a thing is the illusion, right? And the idea that there's an internal and the external is an illusion.

There is no internal, there is no external. There's just this one thing that's happening and this one thing that's happening is fairly incomprehensible. We don't know what it is. We call it a universe. We call it a boundary-less expansion that has within it the sum total of all matter

and thought and ideas and everything exploding into time and it's erupted from some singularity that we call the big bang. That's what we call this thing that we're in, but we really don't understand what it is at all. So this compulsion to love, it really to me doesn't matter if it's an external or an internal.

All that matters is the realization that it exists, that here in this great totality of everythingness that we inhabit, this totality of everythingness that we get to exist within is this one little temporary transient moat of phenomena that we call our human life or our human body. We know for certain that love exists. Love is real.

It is here and it is happening and that in every single moment, we get the chance to express that phenomena into the universe and spread it and watch what happens when you do that. It's pretty incredible. That's beautiful. Don't get, thank you so much.

Please come back as soon as you can, all right? I will for sure. So my question's kind of shallow compared to those. Cool. One of my favorite episodes of your podcast and probably any podcast I've listened to is your interview a couple of years ago with Father John Misty.

Okay, thank you. I just wanted to know what you thought of his new album. Oh man, I'm glad you asked. Yeah, he's got a new album. I thought it was really good, man. Yeah, I thought it was incredible, man. It's like, and really, it's like, I think you're seeing kind of the evolution

of that artist happening in relation to finding love because that album is all about, he's married now and he found his one true soulmate at least for now and like, so when you listen to that album, you're hearing the way that that's, well guys, nothing lasts. I want it to be forever, but it doesn't, nothing lasts.

Like maybe for his entire life this lasts. I don't know, but when I, but so in this moment of time, he's experiencing this like love with another person and you can see the way that it shaped his music and I love the way it sounds. So it's a great album. Do you think you'll have him back any time?

I'd love to, yeah. I need to, you know, he's gotten so famous now and he's like, you know, he's a big rock star now. So, and I've kind of like added him on Twitter and there hasn't been a response. So I think, well, I don't want to bug him. You know, he's super famous now. I don't know, but I'd love to have him back.

By the way, that was one of my, I can't talk about it because if I tell you what happened before the interview, I have to like go back and edit this podcast and delete it and I'll forget and then I won't, but it was a cool interview. Story for after the show? Yes, after the show. Cause after the show, I say goodbye to everybody.

So I'll tell you after the show. Okay, cool. Awesome. Thanks for the question. Sup, Duncan. We love you. Love you back. If you could get any guest on your podcast, like living, dead, real fictitious, anybody from Alistair Crowley to fucking Winnie the Pooh.

Who would it be? Oh shit. Definitely not Winnie the Pooh. Like even if he was alive today, I would never reach out. What's he gonna say? Like he likes honey. He's confused. Not Tesla. He's cool though, but like I think he'd be awkward in an interview situation.

Who would you, who would you have? If you could interview anybody, who would it be? If you could have any guest on your podcast? Jesus, man. Jesus is pretty good. Yeah. Jesus is great. You'd just be like, look at what they fucking did, man. What's their name?

What do you think about that? I'd be like, can you get my ball back? Like after the, after the interview, I'd go, I know I don't need it, but it'd be nice. I kind of like hint at it a little bit. Like, oh, you know, I got one ball. And then he would be like, no, I can't. Cause I'm not a fucking God. I'm just a man.

Boom. No, I, you know, I think Jesus is up there. Uh, I think Alex Jones, not Alex shit. No, Terrence, Terrence, Terrence, make it a, Terrence, make it a be cool. You know what? I'm going to be really cheesy here and I'm going to answer your question. Honestly. Oh God, it's so cheesy.

Forgive me, you guys. My mom, I'd have my mom back on. That was like, that was like the best episode ever. That was really good. Thank you. I love to ask her. So what happened? Like, where are you now? What's, what's going on with where you're at? Cause I think she'd have a lot of really cool answers

to that question, but yeah, thanks for the question. Cool question, man. Peace. Thank you. Thank you. Alrighty, first off, I just want to thank you guys for your honesty and your opinions and having the courage to come up here and talk about the things you've talked about.

Thank you. I managed to narrow down my thoughts to two things that I want to bring up tonight. After three pictures of beer, if you can imagine. Great. It's not that easy. All right. I managed to narrow my thoughts to two things.

My first one is something my grandma told me when I was young and she said, love is quiet. It's silent and war is loud. Wow. Okay. So I want to make sure that everyone knows that there's a lot of fucked up shit going on out there and you don't, you don't have to pay attention to it because love is going to be quiet

and it's going to be silent. And you have to make that the bigger portion of your life and of our existence as human beings in general. The second thing I wanted to bring up is essentially just a simple fact that we all have the opportunity of making a change in what our life is today. Whether it's political or whether it is emotional or work or whatever.

Today, everyone, more than a question is a challenge for everyone to go home tonight, get on your Facebook, get on your Twitter and do something positive with it because you can reach masses like no one else has the chance to reach out before. This generation has the ability to reach masses quicker and in larger amounts than anyone else in America before and in our lives before because we have the internet,

we have Twitter, we have Facebook, we have Instagram. Go home and do something positive, retweet something beautiful, something that encourage people to be positive, that encourages our generation to be for the better. Don't repose some stupid bullshit about someone getting drunk and passing out in public.

I don't care about that. I can see it. I can go out to the bar up the street and see that on my own. Can you guys tweet when you go home tonight if you want to do something positive for the universe? Tweet at Brendon Walsh. I love you.

Just do that, nothing else. Please, please, please just do that because it will freak him out so much. It'll be so awesome. All right, but lastly, we all came here tonight willingly. No one forced you to be here on this audience tonight. We are looking for a way to change, a way to change our lives.

You don't have to look anywhere but yourself. Get on your phone, get on your email, reach out to the people that matters and make the change happen yourself. Thank you so much. Give her a round of applause. How beautiful. Thank you so much.

Hi. Hey, so listening to you from the beginning with Lavender Hour and up until now, I think we've all noticed that you've gone through an amazing spiritual growth and really opened up a lot. Have you experienced any connection with, a metaphysical connection with ailments, sickness,

stuff like that, particularly maybe with what you went through with cancer or with your mom and how your mindset may have affected. From the loss? Well, just how your mind can have such drastic effects on your body and how, I mean, personally, I think that there's a huge metaphysical connection between your mind and the emotions you hold onto

and how they manifest physically. I know what you're saying. Yeah, you know, the hard Krishna's say something, a long time ago, I heard this devotee, the hard Krishna, it's a practice of bhakti yoga and it's a really cool, but it's like, I know there's a lot of stigma attached to it, but it's a very deep and beautiful path

that has a lot, the hard Krishna's or ISKCON is just one tiny piece of what bhakti yoga really is, but there was something, one of those guys told me once that I didn't quite understand until getting cancer, my mom died. One of the things they said is, when you experience tragedy in your life, this is the mercy of Krishna.

And I never understood that, like, what the fuck does that mean? My Krishna's an asshole then, because why is that merciful? But what happens every time you lose something, whether it's your mom, a testicle, or more importantly, the naive delusion that you're gonna live forever

and the people around you are gonna be around forever, anytime you get that kind of teaching, what ends up happening is your attachment to your body, your attachment to the concept of this thing that we're currently in, being around forever, it loosens a little bit, it loosens and loosens and loosens and loosens, and ultimately, that is a great way to ease the suffering

that you experience in this world, because if you get caught up in the idea that you're your body, which most of us are caught up in, this is me, man, I'm this fucking weird thing with arms and legs, and this is me, you get so caught up in that, the more caught up you get in that thing, the more you're gonna suffer,

and the more that you experience loss, the more that you're getting caught up in that thing, gets kind of cut away by the universe. I actually thought this really weird idea, which is the universe is actually, the dimension that we're in is a healing machine that cures us of the disease of life, that we're being like,

that we're the universe that is like a dolphin has gotten caught in the net of selfness, and that this dimension that we're in is gradually snipping away that net so that we can go back to exist is what we really are, which is the sum total of all things. So thanks for the question. Thank you.

Thank you. It's trippy and weird. First of all, thanks for the talk, I think it's really awesome, good ideas going when you were talking, I thought you had a lot of great ideas. Thanks. I had a thought, kind of like a brief moment of clarity

when you mentioned something, and I wanted to bring it up, and I hope I can convey it correctly. It might sound like utter bullshit, but 15 minutes ago it made sense to me, so I'm gonna try and convey it correctly. That's how I do everything, Fred. Right here.

So when you were talking about this perspective they, you know, whatever structure of government or that's doing all this evil or doing, or has this structure that is essentially ruling the world or driving this workforce, and you were saying, and you mentioned that, essentially they're just, they're not bad people, but they're people who think that what they're doing is right.

For a second I thought, for us to basically be activists and try to either expose the truth of whatever conspiracy they're making, or essentially dismantle that structure, aren't we essentially the same as those people? But just with less power? I mean, tying back to the fact that we're all gonna die, I'm thinking that, hey, you know,

maybe exposing this truth or dismantling this form of government, maybe that's not really the best for us. Aren't we thinking that we know what's best for the greater good in the world? Maybe we could be expediting our own demise. But I think that when you, but people are suffering and dying

because of their ideology, not the ideology that we wanna put forward, so I think that- Can you say that again? I mean, I think- People are suffering and dying in mass because of what these people think is the right ideology to enforce

and the right policies to enforce, so I think that you can look at people suffering and dying because of policies that are actually perpetuated by our tax dollars, then you can say that's wrong, and I think that that's like a universal truth. That is true, but essentially in any scenario and any structure of government

or any system that we employ, there's always gonna be people suffering and always gonna be people dying. But dude, we have the capacity to not make people suffer. I mean, the resources, the money, the ability, the technology, the intelligence to not let people and suffer and die. So if that makes me fucking right,

like, I mean, yeah, I think I'm fucking right saying that. And also, and I think it's better than what they think. The thing you just said, which it's an idea that I've heard before, and I think the idea is best summed up in a cartoon, a political cartoon I saw, which depicts like the statue of some tyrant being pushed over by revolutionaries,

but the statue is kind of emerging from a pinwheel underground and a new statue swings around and gets put up in its place. So what you're saying is that idea, which is that all revolutions inevitably lead to just more tyranny. I don't think that that's a truth.

I don't think that that necessarily has to be the case, like what you're saying, because those ideas of like, here's the way things have always been, here's the way they always will be, they are generally not aware of Kurzweil's idea of accelerating returns, which is that we're existing in a time period

that is not going to be the way it always has been because we have the capacity to use technology and to use innovation in the connective power of the internet and the general connective tendency of technology to possibly, if not eradicate, reduce so much suffering in the world and that a lot of the people that we're theoretically fighting against, these are the people

who are getting in the way of that process. And what's beautiful, sorry, is that we're on the cusp of something beautiful that has never existed before in time, that we have the world's knowledge at our fingertips, that we don't just need to use to argue with strangers and look at cat photos. Like we have this amazing technology

that the old guard holds onto these ideologies and systems of control and we have the ability for the first time in our lives because of the internet and because of this universal access to people that we can move forward beyond those systems of control and build our own decentralized system. I wanna believe that, but I feel like that's kind of an ideology that'll really just

keep us going and it's just another reason to just live. I feel like if what I was saying was true and everybody accepted it, there would really be no purpose to carry on on the daily activities. There'd be nothing to really believe in, nothing to really fight for. I feel like that's something that's the human condition

that we need to believe so that we feel like we have a purpose. Oh, I love it. You're like Camus, you're an existentialist brother. I love it. It's really beautiful and sweet and it's scary what you're saying. I don't know.

It might be real. It might be real. What you're saying might be real. But why not trying? Yeah, give it a shot. In the face of absurdity, you just, you know man, God forgive me. I'm gonna, before I say this little thing,

I'm sorry you guys. I have time for one, two, three, four more people, because the venue, and then I'm gonna say goodbye to everybody. I come outside and hang out. So one, four more people after you. I just wanna tell this quick story

based on what you're saying. And it's a story that comes from the father of existential psychology, Victor Frankel. And he's got a great book that you should check out called Man's Search for Meaning. And this, it's a great book. All of you should read it.

You know this book, Man's Search for, oh God, it's one of my, it's such an incredible book, but so this guy is a psychologist and he gets taken to Auschwitz and all of his research gets taken away. His family gets stripped away from him. And he is a psychologist watching

what's going on in a concentration camp, right? And, you know, he's just watching the way that, you know, the way that some people give up in the face of oblivion. Because really, if you're in a concentration camp, it's, you're done pretty much. Forget it, you're done. Your family, and even if you're not done,

your family's been killed. Everything you've known has been destroyed. You're kind of mentally, like mentally, your life has changed so much. There's not much left to live for. So he talked about how certain people would, you always knew somebody was gonna die because you'd see him smoking cigarettes,

which means that they'd swap their food for cigarettes. So you'd see him like in the mud smoking and you're like, yeah, they're gonna die. And he talks about how he's on a death, he's on, they would march the prisoners to go do work. And he's on this march in the winter and he slips and he falls. And as he's laying there,

this guard starts slamming his head with a butt of his rifle. And he's seen the guard do this before and he kills people this way. Because really, they don't care. If you're not able to work, they're just gonna kill you. They don't have to feed you anymore. It's, it makes economic sense.

So he's like slamming Victor Frankel's head with a butt of his rifle. And Victor Frankel, while this is happening, has a vision. In his mind, he pictures himself giving a lecture to students. And in this lecture, he's talking about how, in this moment of having his head beaten in with a butt of this Nazi's fucking rifle,

that he realized that if he can survive this, if he can use the sheer force of his will to survive in the face of complete oblivion, if he can find meaning even in the depths of darkness that he was in right there, that he could then teach the world how to find meaning in this darkness and help bring so much happiness

and he's suffering in the world. And he fucking got up, man. He got up and he gave that very lecture to a group of students and that thing that he envisioned happened. So if Victor Frankel, in the midst of pure absurd oblivion, can find a reason to live

or find a reason to do good things, I think you could figure it out too. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for the question. Thank you. Thank you. This is too high.

Sorry. Abby, I think you said something really important earlier and that's that a lot of the violence that goes on here, not here, a lot of the violence that goes on the world is not motivated by or enabled by maliciousness, right? And I wanted to offer a little bit of insight in that maybe you can comment on that afterwards, sure.

I went through seven years of really rough graduate school and at the end of it, I knew a lot of physicists and mathematicians, PhDs, and I had an option of where was I gonna go to work? And I could continue in that academia and make something approaching assistant manager and retail or, and I know lots of people who chose this path, make three times that amount and go work for Raytheon,

go work for Lockheed Martin, go work for the NSA, go work for NGIC. And these are sweet people and they just looked at, well, how much am I gonna make? And they're not making, a lot of them aren't making weapons, they're not doing stuff that's directly applicable to killing people.

Yeah, they're compartmentalized and yeah. Right, but they're working for companies that benefit from people dying and they make more money when people die and they're supporting an industry that makes money from death. And these are some of the smartest people in the country and this is the choice they're faced with

and that's like, what are you gonna do? Like, it's a brain drain because of economic incentive and less, you know, Google's sort of like a godsend, like they're offering lots of money for smart people to do things that aren't violent but outside of that, where are these people gonna work because there's not enough room in academia

and I don't know what the options are. What did you do? What was your decision? I'm working for a salary that's approaching assistant manager at retail and I will sweep floors or sort shit before I work towards something that contributes to violence. But, you know, that's what we're faced with.

That's what we're faced with. And, you know, I want people to realize that all the violence that goes on, the people behind it aren't necessarily being malicious. They're making a choice that's not necessarily directly related to what actually happens. And so, you know, like this consciousness raising, like you talked about, is what has to happen

to see past that just strictly economic decision. Right, well, I mean, that's why I think we need a new economic model because I think that the system rewards people who are the most sycophantic, sociopathic, like bottom dwellers, and I'm not saying your friends are that took those jobs, I'm just saying that's what it rewards, you know?

I mean, you have social care workers, home care workers who are treated like shit, they're paid nothing, but that's what they do because they know it's like good and they're helping people and we're in a moral quandary right now, you know? I mean, I had to work for Russia today to tell the truth. I mean, that's not an ideal situation, you know what I mean?

Like that's all the decisions that we have to make, but at the same time, I had to quit because I cared more about my moral integrity than working for something that I didn't actually like believe in the whole systems that allowed that platform. So I think that when you're looking at like Boeing and Lockheed Martin, I think, I mean, yeah, it's sad.

A lot of altruistic people who are good mean and good nature get into these systems because they're compartmentalized and they're working on this and that and they don't understand that they're actually building weapons to kill people and that's just gonna come with time, man, but I think that it has to come with building something

that's an alternative and building the options and opportunities for people to use and use their utilities and their intelligence to something towards good. And they exist today. It's just that you're not gonna get $150,000 to do it, but we'll get there. We'll get there.

And also, man, one thing that's, I think, an interesting part of the conditioning that we all have is the concept of having to have a boss like that idea, like you need someone to work for. But, and that idea is an antiquated idea because if you look at the resources that you have right now at your command that are just essentially free, you know, you have access to so much

that you could use to make money if you wanted to. It makes me think of the idea is I heard this great, God damn it, I'm trying to think of which guest on my podcast said this, damn it. Ah, God, damn it, four hour work week. Why can't I remember his name right? Ferris, Ferris, I'm so sorry. Forgive me, this is what he said.

He said the most successful people that he knows ask the right questions. They ask the right questions. And he said, imagine this, imagine if I hired a hitman, like for some weird reason I had shit tons of money and I'm just some weirdo and right now on stage I told you, listen, I'm hiring a hitman. And if in the next month you haven't figured out a way

to on your own make the same salary, you would have made it Lockheed Martin or Raytheon or any of these doom companies, he's gonna kill you. There's nothing that you can do to stop it in a month, you have a month to figure out how to make that salary on your own, I guarantee you'd start asking the right fucking questions, right? And you'd figure it out and you'd do it

because you're a smart person and you're a person that those people wanna hire instead of hiring you for you to ask the questions, they wanna hire you to answer their questions. And their questions are, how do we kill people more efficiently, do you know how? So ask yourself the own question, like how do I generate this kind of income

minus working for Dracula and I think you'll get the answer. You know what, I just read this study that said $80,000 or $75,000 is the ideal income to be happy and anything more than that is just kind of satisfaction where you can put shit away in the Cayman Islands or this and that, but I think that once you realize that life is not about money, but happiness is not about money

and you don't need to sell your soul to work for Raytheon to be happy, because happiness is love and it's about just being with people that inspire you. Yeah, thank you guys for what you do. Thank you, thanks. One last thing, the real takeaway I wanted to say is violence is not always motivated by maliciousness. Absolutely, man, and that's good to know.

Great, thank you so much. Thank you. Hey Duncan, how are you doing? Great, how are you? I'm excellent, I'm a little fucked up. So am I. I just want to say that I love you a lot. I've been following the Duncan Trunkin'-

Trussell, I have problems saying it sometimes too. I started off with Joe Rook and Experience and then I really said you're the best guest on the show and I was like- Thank you. What the fuck is Duncan Trussell? Oh my God, hold shit, like you're amazing, man. Thank you.

And I just want to preface this. My name is Mark David Gillan and I've been, I was born into a devout Christian family. My mother and my father did not have sex till they were married. They didn't drink, smoke, anything like that. They're a very devout Christian family and I was born into that and I'm one of three boys, male children and I was born into a family

where I was supposed to be a Bible thumping Christian person and I was brought up into it until I reached the right age of reason around 18, 19 and you inspired me to, like I'm a whimsical person. I'm not an Excel, I'm not, listen to me, listen to me. I'm not an Excel spreadsheet. I'm a flute, I'm a guitar solo. I'm a whimsical fucking person.

I, listen to me, Duncan Trussell, I want to tell you, I love you so much. God bless you, whatever mystical deity there is in this realm, God bless you, God bless you. And Joe Rogan, you've radically, listen to me, you have radically fucking changed my life. At the age of 21, I delved into the shamanistic practice of psychedelic drugs

and it's radically changed my life. I love you. Now listen to me, listen to me, listen to me, listen to me. You have inspired me to write stand-up, you have inspired me to paint, you have inspired me to be a whimsical fucking poet. I'm telling you, God bless you, listen to me, listen to me. All right, I'm fucked up, I'm fucked up, listen to me.

All right, all right, I have delved into psychedelic drugs. I've done nine grams of psilocybin mushrooms on an empty stomach. I'm telling you, man, I've talked to Gaia, I've gone past, I've glitched off the map, video game terms, I've glitched off the map and I'm gone. Now listen to me, from a Christian standpoint, I can contextualize all of this

because I was raised in a Christian home and it seems like there's an upside, there's a right side up cross, there's the deity, there's the trinity, there's the Holy Spirit, there's the Alpha, the Omega, it seems like there's a biblical light and there's a biblical darkness. That's what I've realized from my experience

with psychedelic drugs. Now I'm telling you this, I've tripped on Adderall and 4.5 grams of psilocybin mushrooms on the beach and the fucking Sobek came up to me and looked at me right in the fucking face. I was like, oh my God. Wait, what, look to you? The Egyptian God, the mystical demon Sobek

looked me right in the fucking face. Oh, Sobek. Sobek, the Eye of Horus, the serious, the serious, the dog star looked me right in the fucking face. Okay, okay, I got it. Well here, can I inspire you? I want you to address this. Can I inspire you?

I want you to address this. I'm gonna address it. And I'm gonna, and you have to do what I say. Oh, no, no. Your turn to speak. Based on everything you just said, you have to do what I say, right? I'm listening to you right now, sir.

Say I'll do what you say. I'm a student right now. Okay, student. Here's what I want you to do. Please, I'm begging you. Start your own podcast. Yes! Great.

And that's it. You're a very passionate person. Fuck yeah. And you've got a lot of charisma. And I don't know what could happen, but I do think that we have this medium accessible to all of us. Everyone here should do it.

It's so fun to do. Get a recorder. Get some friends together. Talk about your visions. Talk about Sobek and put that out into the world because it's definitely entertaining and engrossing. Don't get done. Listen to me right now.

I love you. You're a fucking artist. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you. Everything you put to do it is onto the, this is like the final shit, final product. The sum total of your life,

everything that you put your hand to make it be the sum total of your life, just put it. Fucking put it out into the realm and everybody listening, just fucking insert it into their fucking consciousness. Thank you, brother. Thanks for the question.

Thank you so much. God bless. Thank you. Hi. Hi. He's a little hard to follow. But so I actually have a little bit of a similar story to him.

I was raised in the Bible Belt with a very Christian mother. Wonderful mother. I love her, but very Christian. And so I was actually turned on to you, but my boyfriend, he was a big Joe Rogan follower and then came, he was like,

Duncan Charles is amazing. You have to listen to him. And I think it was about a year and a half ago, two years ago, you did one of your opening rants. And I think it was in some way, you were talking about, what if a creator,

what if we're all doing a program and it's just, we've all been programmed. It's like a video game. So like something about that clicked to me in some weird way, maybe it was the Christian way I was raised and the woman I was supposed to be,

it changed everything for me. So thank you for what you do. It means a lot to me. Thank you. I also, now that you're back, I have a second question for you. So conspiracy theories just kind of crack me up.

I like to read about them. So when you were talking about Clinton, or not Clinton, the Bush administration in 9-11, it's like, do you really think the Bushes were smart enough to do that? I made it pretty clear

that I don't think that they were. I don't think that 9-11 was orchestrated by Bush. So I think that that's what people degenerate into is that they hear like everything about 9-11 is like, oh, they think that Bush orchestrated it. No, there's many, many things that are documented that should raise questions for all of us, including the 28 pages thing,

to prove that we were lied to. At the very least, like we were lied to, that's completely obvious. It's not a conspiracy theory. The government, we're probably lied to a lot, but. Right, but we're lied to about a government that was involved in it,

that we're allies with. Isn't that concerning? I know, I think it's concerning. What I got to was when, some people do think that it was the Bushes that did it, and I just don't think they're that smart. I don't think they could pull something like that off. Right, I don't either.

Well, I think one thing really smart people do is make people think they're not that smart. That's a one method, that's a one definite like smart form of camouflage. It's like really, really, really smart people have realized that if people think you're smart, the next thing they're gonna do is arrest you. So they're like, let's make them think we're idiots,

and we can get away with anything. So who knows? I don't know if that's really the case. But to address the Christian fundamentalist thing, which I hear a lot, one really rough thing about being raised to Christian fundamentalist is that you end up getting cut off from the Bible,

because what ends up happening is your revolution, your personal revolution, means fighting back against your parents or fighting back against those power structures, and you abandon the whole fucking thing. A lot of people who are raised in fundamentalist Christian families become devout atheists because they've associated the Bible

or the word Jesus or all the information in there. They've associated that with pain. It's no different than the experiments that they run on mice, where they take a mouse and they expose the mouse to any stimulus at all and electrocute the mouse, and then now the mouse is gonna be afraid of that thing forever.

In the same way, you have this book, the Bible, a lot of different information sources sort of like shoved into this one fucking thing. You've got the Gospels, the Synoptic Gospels and the Book of John, that doesn't even represent the whole story of Jesus. There's a lot of other valid Gospels that didn't make it into the Bible.

I'm sure you're aware of the Gospel of Thomas. Do you know the Gospel of Thomas where this is some psychedelic shit? Do you know about the Gospel of Thomas? It's amazing, but there's a lot of Gospels that didn't make it in there that talk about Jesus as a baby. They talk about the weird shit,

like Jesus just killed somebody when he was a kid. He was getting bullied and he turned around and touched the bully and was like, see you later. That's not the exact verse, but he actually killed people. Like crazy shit, him playing with mud and making pigeons out of mud and bringing them to life. Like a lot of other incredible stories are there. So don't let your fundamentalist upbringing

cut you off from the beauty of that story, whether it's real or not. It's like an incredible story that really is so sad and beautiful, which is the idea of someone who gave everything. It literally was like, I'm going to die. I'm just gonna let these people kill me to show how much I love everything in the world.

It's a beautiful way to live. It doesn't matter if there was a real Jesus or not. That concept is so incredible and poignant. Take LSD, listen to Jesus Christ superstar, and you'll understand how beautiful the thing is. It's an incredible... Well, don't say it like that, man. Don't say take LSD like a Norwegian death metal guy.

Take LSD! You don't have to take LSD, but revisit them in case you... Thank you for the question. Thanks. Hello. So disclaimer, I am a little bit lifted, so I'll try to articulate this as best as possible. Thank you.

All right, so first off, thank both of y'all very much for what y'all are doing. Thank you. And specifically for you, Ms. Martin, I want to thank you for giving my friend, Marcel McCartier, a platform to express his personality. We went to college together in Mani and just seeing where he was in

and where he is now is amazing. Thank you for giving another opportunity. And Mr. Trussell, I have a question for you. I'm getting ready for my first DMT experience. Okay. Cool. Now, first of all, by the way, I know that when you're saying that,

you're saying it symbolically. You're not really taking DMT. It's a joke. Of course, of course. I will neither confirm nor deny that those kinds of things will happen. Right, but let's say you were. Let's say a friend of yours was.

Hypothetical, hypothetical, right. I just wanted to get your perspective. What would you suggest to prepare for that Teres McKenna joint? What are you doing? Are you doing the death dose? Silent doctor? Or are you just doing like a normal dose?

Well, I heard Teres McKenna talk about like 70 milligrams. Okay, so you're doing the death dose. All right. And then the three hits and silent doctors. Okay, first of all, here's the thing. The whole death dose thing are like, here's the thing. When you started drink, do you drink? I'm more of a smoker.

But did you ever drink? Do you ever had a drink? Well, actually, I'm drinking yingling right now. Okay. So when you first started drinking, right? People weren't like, drink 50 shots of tequila. Get fucked up, man. People were like that.

The first time I drank was in Mannheim, so that was the case. Okay, well, okay, right. But the thing about it is this, like, and I understand the death dose and I understand McKenna's idea of the heroic dose. And I think that there's something to be said for that. But I don't know why we have to,

with our immediate contact with any substance, we have to take the highest dose possible to understand or experience it. I don't get that. I, it doesn't make sense to me. I say, it may be hard to find, but yeah, is it really? You know what's so interesting? Go on amazon.com and act like you're ordering

Mamosa Hostelis. And then look at people also ordered and you'll see all the information about how to make TMT. It's like actually- I'm going through that right now, actually. But yeah, so, and I'm not saying manufacture an illegal drug.

In fact, you should never do that at all. Of course, I do not promote drugs in any way. But I'm saying it, so yeah, maybe it's hard for you to find, but it's probably if someone wanted to, then you should never do it because it's illegal, but I bet it's not that hard to make. So, all that being said, and I don't,

I would say the way to do it is with an attitude of respect, do it with an attitude of opening yourself up. You're doing this substance. So to prove. You're not doing it recreationally. You're doing it because you're trying to understand the universe that you're living in. And you've heard that people who have had contact

with this substance have had heightened states of awareness that have taught them, right? That's why you're doing it. So the general recommendation when it comes to taking a psychedelic is you do it with some intention. Do it with people you love. Don't do it with a frenemy.

A lot of people end up doing psychedelics with a frenemy, and that's a bad thing. Don't do it with a frenemy. And I think that if you wanna find some great advice about taking a psychedelic, you can actually, and guys, I really am not a Christian, so I'm sorry if I keep referring to the Bible, but you can go to the New Testament

and look at the advice for taking communion, the idea for what to do when you're going into the temple of God, which is to forgive, forgive, forgive, forgive. You forgive the people around you. Before you take this substance, make sure that any secrets that you have that you're holding onto that are toxic,

that you've let go of them. You've let go of the secrets. You're not holding anything back. If you're hiding something from your friends or from your family, tell them what you've been hiding and tell them why you're telling them, because you wanna be a better person. Then once you've done all these things,

some people say abstain from sex. I've never done that, but some people recommend don't like have sex for a few days before. The point is, make it a real event. Make it something real. Make and do certain sacrifices as you enter into that state. And then you'll have this incredible experience.

And guess what? If you don't do those things, you're still gonna have an incredible experience. But so you could do it either way, but the time that I did it, I remember that the person I did it with is someone who'd been to the Amazon a lot. He said a prayer.

He said that, he said this incredible prayer and said that he used all these symbols from the Amazon. He said be like the hummingbird. It can travel thousands of miles in a few days or be like the jaguar that eats. It's like a force of destruction or a force of destruction. And it eats the bones of its prey. May you use your darkness for sustenance.

Eat the darkness. Transform your darkness into light. He said these beautiful prayers and it was really work. Like entering into that space with the same reverential attitude that people enter into the sacred space of temples. Take off your shoes, burn some incense. Here where you are standing is holy ground.

That's what God said to Moses in the burning bush. By the way, the burning bush, what was it made of? You guys know? Acacia. And Acacia is in DMT. So if you enter into that state of reverence, I think that you can have a lot of great results. All right, cool.

Thanks for the question. Do you mind if I get a photo real quick? Yeah, well, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you want to get a photo here? Okay, great. Let's do it. Well, if you're not in it, if you do that. Here, come here.

Here, come on stage for a second. Here, I'll help you up. But I love you too. Here. Thanks, man. Aw. Here, take a look. There you go.

Let's do it in front of the audience. This is gonna be really tricky. Wow, yo. Yeah, here, let's do it here. This is surreal, man. We got a black one, so I'm gonna put it in the DMT of my first allegedly. Did you get the picture?

Yeah, I got a few. All right, great. There you go. Thank you so much. Guys, I'll hang out with all of you so we can get pictures after the show. Oh, are you okay? Okay, great.

I'll be hanging out after the show so we can all get pictures of you guys. Abby Martin, everybody. Let her hear it. I'm so honored to be on stage, man. You want to talk a little bit? Thank you so much. Good night, everybody.

Thank you, guys, for coming to the show today. Thank you. Howdy, Krista. Thanks for listening, everybody. Big thanks to Casper Mattresses for supporting this podcast. Go to casper.com forward slash family hour to get 50 bucks off your first purchase.

And big thanks to Abby Martin. Follow her on Twitter at Abby Martin. Check out her art by going to ABBYMartin.org. And thank you guys for listening. I hope you have a great week. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.