Duncan Trussell Family Hour - ALEX & ALLYSON GREY and EMIL AMOS lIVE FROM BROOKLYN!!

Episode Date: May 19, 2015

A supreme mega podcast recorded live in Brooklyn with visionary artists Alex and Allyson Grey and Emil Amos!

At Lowe's, we know you can get the job done faster if you don't have to stop and come into the store all the time. That's why we've updated our app with your business in mind. With the app, you can build quotes, easily reorder your supplies, track orders, and much more so you can get everything you need right away, stay on the job, finish it, and get started on the next one. Build the app today because Lowe's knows time is money, Lowe's knows pros. This episode of the Duncan Tressel Family Hour podcast is brought to you by the 920 Coalition.

This is an organization that is supporting events focused on new research about psilocybin mushrooms and its role in medicine and society. You can visit them by going to the920coalition.org, that's 920coalition.org, links will be at www.duncantressel.com, hello my state friend. Oh hell yeah, that theme was created by Essex. You can find more of his music by going to Essex.com, that's ESSEKS.com. Hello my dear friends, it is I, Duncan Tressel, the skrillex of podcasting. Greetings, Hare Krishna, praise Allah, much thanks to that source and force in the universe

that creates all cute things. I would like to bow down to the transcendent, imminent force from which all cuteness emerges. We call it the cute head. Cute things aren't bad, also I'd like to give a gigantic thank you to that force which holds atoms together, created a planet that pops human beings out just from spinning around a few times and thank you to the Big Bang, Nancy Grace, Krishna and Roland of Gilead. I'd also like to thank the creators of Sriracha. I'm back, thank you Christ, I'm back, I really miss doing this podcast.

For those of you who don't know, I went to a meditation retreat in Hawaii and then I stayed in Hawaii for two freaking weeks after that. What happened to me? Why would I do something like that? I just wanted to and it was fun, interesting, vacations are weird things. The term sucks, it's kind of a chain that you hang around the neck of a good time because it reminds you of the fact that this is somehow a differentiated state from the rest of your life which makes you feel that the rest of your life, the dimmer has been turned down

a little bit and from time to time when you manage to squirm free of your obligations, you get to do a frenetic manic dance in some paradise place for a little while pouring my ties down your throat and shoving everything into every orifice that you can possibly fit until you end up on the plane two seconds later heading back to where you came from and wondering if you just had some kind of wild dream. I think vacations are great but I think that it's a little dangerous to become dependent on the concept of some temporal oasis laying in your future where everything's going to be okay again as though there's a finish line up ahead that once you run through it that

anxiety mosquito with its doom prismiscus jammed deep into your brain is somehow going to fly away. It's the whole concept of the meditation experience that if I start meditating every morning and sitting on the mat or if I start going to yoga or if I start chanting this long a day or if I start whatever the fucking thing is that you think you're going to do that's suddenly going to make everything better is definitely 100% the very thing that's keeping things from being better what keeps things better as far as I can tell it's just the present moment it's that bohemian disregard of everything in the past and everything in the future all these time worshipers bowing

down at the altar of time paying daily homage to the sad panoply of memories or expectations that torment them like demons in a uronomous Bosch painting if you do that thing you can do it right now at this very moment even as my raspy lesbian voice goes cascading in those sweet soft silky ear holes of yours if you go diving down right now let yourself sink into your chair wherever you happen to be if you're at work whatever you're doing keep doing it you don't have to stop if you're driving keep driving if you're making love keep making love if you're massaging a client right now or if you're rubbing mentholated cream into your grandfather's crusted cake doled lobster nipples even now you can do it you just let this be all that there is

and bam holy shit all of a sudden everything's great even the not great part of whatever experience you happen to be having is going to be a hell of a lot better than it was when you were fighting against it imagining some future place where you bask next to some idyllic oasis drinking deep of the sweet water of life looking back on all your past sorrows as though they were some terrible dream you had after you ate too much carls jr doesn't happen i'll tell you of a place my friends gather around let me tell you of a place a place where everything is perfect where the colors are beautiful where every feeling no matter how sweet or sour is the greatest feeling you ever had i want to talk about the most psychedelic place that exists the place from which all psychedelic

experiences emerge let me tell you about a place where you can go and all of the chains and manacles of the world all of those thought chains that have been clamped down onto your consciousness all of those bars that have been built around you forcing you into some kind of ego identity fall away as though the trumpet of gabriel just tooted from the sweet clouds of heaven i'm gonna tell you about this place i'm gonna tell you how to get there friends on the great treasure map of time an x has been marked on the place where heaven exists and that x is your body right there right now it's just right here you see if you play around with this present moment if you play around with being in the

present moment you'll realize that the gates of heaven were constructed by you how do you think you get into heaven i'm not talking about cuckoo heaven i'm not talking about there ain't no gay people up here and we have telescopes that look down into hell so we can watch demons ripping the rectums out of all those who didn't say the right words to make jesus like i'm not talking about that fucking heaven i'm talking about the fountain of youth man i'm talking about the that secret place that has been written about in all occult manuscripts i'm talking about that place that kids know about ultimate bliss is achieved or maybe i'm full of shit and ate a little too much marijuana

i don't know we've got a great podcast here this is a um this is a live podcast with alex and alison gray and emal amos we recorded it at the bell house in brooklyn you're gonna get another intro i don't even remember what that intro was i i have to improvise these intros on the road now they think about i improvise the intros when i do them not on the road so basically it's two intros i just felt like getting our rant out i haven't done i haven't done a real podcast in a few weeks and i really miss it i miss you guys i miss doing it some big announcements are coming soon by the way uh but i'm not gonna give them now we're gonna dive right into this live podcast but first some quick business this episode of the duncan trussell

family our podcast is brought to you by the 920 coalition the 920 coalition you could find them at 920 coalition dot org is a new organization that is supporting events focused on new research about psilocybin mushrooms and its role in medicine and society there's research being done all over the world right now that is showing that psilocybin has powerful medicinal benefits and anxiety reduction overcoming depression treating addiction uh this is from steven ross uh who is one of the scientists doing research on psilocybin and this is from a great article that was written about in the new yorker called the trip treatment uh cancer patients receiving just a single dose of psilocybin experienced immediate and dramatic reductions in anxiety and depression

improvements that were sustained for at least six months this is something a lot of us already know so i know you that many of you guys out there are well aware of the fact that mushrooms seem to calibrate your soul in the direction of love we all know that but what's really exciting right now is that our own subjective experiences are being backed up by hard science and that is incredible and what that means is that in the same way different parts of the country marijuana is becoming prescribable uh and even purchasable just for recreational use there is a very real possibility that the same thing could happen for psilocybin and this is why the 920 coalition is so important uh this group is planning on uh facilitating events on september 20th 2015

at colleges and universities all over the country uh they are collaborating with students for sensible drug policy and they wanted to advertise on this podcast to put the word out that if you're a student and you want to host one of these events please contact them by sending an email to hello at 920 coalition.org you can also visit their website that's 920 coalition.org so if you're in college right now and you want to do some incredible service for the universe and for the psychedelic community and you and feel inclined to doing this kind of volunteer work here is a great organization for you to get in touch with you guys know that this is so important you know that you know that there is nothing more ridiculous and absurd than the fact that psilocybin is placed

in the same category as pcp it's ridiculous there's nothing more insane than the fact that if you have in your pocket a fungus that enhances your ability to love that grows off of cow shit you can go to jail or get fined hundreds of thousands of dollars that's insane people have to fight tooth and nail to get these kinds of draconian drug policies transformed and you can be one of those people who joins this very important movement that's happening all over the world to reform and change drug policies that are not keeping us safe but are actually slowing down the spiritual evolution of our species please go to 920 coalition.org that's 920 coalition.org check them out if you feel called to work with these people

no matter no matter what you think you can do even if you can just help connect them with people at your college or whatever your particular skill set happens to be this kind of stuff happens through collaboration so it doesn't matter even if you maybe you don't even know what you can do just email them 920 coalition.org and let them know that you would like to help out there's also if you don't feel like volunteering or you don't maybe you're not at college right now but you want to donate if you go to 920 coalition.org there will be a there's a donate button there too so you can chip in in that way we live in an incredible era right now and thanks to social networking drug laws and policies that formerly would have been impossible to change

we can now change but we can only do it if we all work together and if we support in whatever way we can organizations like the 920 coalition who are working really hard to try to create a world where people can ingest psilocybin safely and without fear of being thrown into a dungeon surrounded by murderers just because you wanted to connect with your family more it's ridiculous 920 coalition.org go visit them they have sponsored this podcast why not support them all the links will be located at dunkintrustle.com in the comment section of the podcast we are as always also sponsored by amazon.com all of you people who are using the amazon portal thank you so much thank you guys for continuing to do that it's a great way for you to support

this podcast all you got to do is go through the portal located at dunkintrustle.com and that's it they give us a very small percentage of anything that you buy and it costs you nothing and it really does help support this podcast and i hope you'll do it just go through the amazon portal located in the comment section bookmark that portal that's all you have to do go through there and buy something awesome there is a i don't know if you guys are aware of this or not but there's a new video game coming out which which possibly means that i won't release an episode of this podcast for a couple of years witcher 3 looks super cool go through the amazon portal pick up a copy of that video game and you can actually support this podcast by playing witcher

or whatever it is that you feel like buying through amazon my god they have everything there really is no need to leave your house anymore there's also another great way for you to support this show it's by going to our shop located at dunkintrustle.com we sell an array of t-shirts one of the t-shirt designs is actually created by Ron Regi Jr and contains on it a sigil which is guaranteed to draw into your life the potential for more orgasms there's always a potential for more orgasms in your life and to be honest it doesn't matter what shirt you're wearing but i hope that you'll check the shirts out we got some cool posters there and if you feel so inclined why not pick up one of these shirts they're made of super super super soft fabric

and they generate a metaphysical force field designed to repel the evil i okay friends that's it without further ado we're going to start this podcast i actually introduced the guests you're going to hear another intro which is the live intro i just wanted to get this one off my chest thank you guys for listening i hope you have an incredible week that's it for me and now to the live podcast Hare Krishna thank you guys so much for coming out tonight how you feeling tonight cool we have an epic show for you tonight and i'm going to start it off with one of my best friends in the world he is in a band called holy sons in a band called ohm you've probably heard him on the podcast more than a few times everybody please give a big round of applause

for emil amos let him hear it emil amos um when there's storms clear i'll be standing right here um i'll survive the sadness of this world so let the sun rise i am a young man

um i'm trusting this world with my life um and i will stand before you you i will bring a smile i hope my heart isn't set on love oh

oh so i'm doubling times spilling my glass so many safe ways i'm traveling past i don't need to rest so i've been with the worst i've seen it before like to shero mafune i'm always with so

so i can't stand to sleep smoking dope whatever i do the police won't find me if i stay with you but they will humiliation on the middle of the highway

humiliation is kind of my thing oh so i'm on various drugs i need crowd control i wouldn't know oh

if i'd sold my own soul smoking dope or whatever i do the police won't find me if i stay with you so all right we have time for one more so i'm ready to die i'm ready to die baby i'm ready to die

ready to die oh ready to die baby i'm ready to and i'm so ready to die and i'm so ready to die and i'm so i am now so do

you email amus everybody let him here at email amus that's beautiful cool wow holy shit man he's so good i was so jealous of him in college i wanted to kill him we'd take acid together and he'd go he'd always abandon me like two hours in to go record beautiful music while i just sort of aimlessly wandered around the campus like a total loser cool man you good thank you guys so much for coming out i'm gonna tell you how we do these how i've been doing these live podcasts and then we're and we're gonna jump right into it so

the way i've been doing first of all when when you hear me do an opening monologue on the podcast usually that's taken me about two or three days to record which i know seems ridiculous because it's a lot of it probably seems completely absurd but i sit in front of my computer and i stop and rewind and repeat the same thing over again and again and again and again so i don't have that option here it's just one shot i can't erase anything so i'm gonna try to do one tonight but the way i've been doing it and i really like doing it this way is getting you guys to kind of throw out ideas for what the opening rant should be about so what should we talk about tonight what's that art on drugs no man i'll never talk about that

drugs are illegal art sucks anybody have any what else you got what is this okay maybe maybe what oh romantic breakups those are super fun what okay cool what's that and or okay psychic vampires uh paras oh it's psychic psychic parasites and or vampires ices uh romantic breakups drugs and art and what physical creatures i can't hear you blue alien porn weirdly that's one genre of porn i'm not familiar with which is kind of shocking to me okay okay i think we got it all right cool

sex and energy that's cool um all right so um here's the thing we only got 90 minutes so i'm gonna uh do the opening monologue it's gonna be about 10 minutes or so then we're gonna talk for an hour and then after that uh we're gonna hopefully have some time for questions from you guys which i can't promise but hopefully we'll have some time uh and and we'll have the microphone down there and then if you guys want to ask questions you can we might not have time to do it though so um the way i've been starting off all of these shows is uh by getting everybody to do the ohm uh longer than you feel comfortable doing the oh because it's really cool man it's really cool and uh just to really like up the cheesy level of doing the ohm uh i think that we should direct it

in the direction of napal and all those people who just got so massively impacted by this terrible earthquake that happened in one of the most beautiful and incredible places on earth with so many varying spiritual communities and so many beautiful things happening there it's just a really awful intense thing that happened and for what it's worth let's try to direct that energy over there i know the skeptics in the audience your assholes are like sucking up into your body right now like shut up no that i won't do anything but maybe you've never heard what it sounds like with a group of people doing it together because it sounds really cool so let's just do that for a little while uh in the ohm it sounds like ohm so it's really easy to do

so let's just do that oh um oh um oh oh cool that sounds so cool good job

okay let's do this goody wait hold on um i can get it right i could say good evening good evening everyone it is i dunkin trussell the skrillex of podcasting and you are listening to the dunkin trussell family hour podcast being recorded live from the bell house in brooklyn man breakups are the worst thing ever which is what makes them so awesome right because they are one of the worst things outside of like the the worst things that we know of like you know death or disease breakups holy

shit man they're so intense but if you practice any kind of mindfulness or if you uh take a second in the midst of the writhing agonizing pain of a breakup you will guaranteed have that slight strange flickering realization of i'm kind of getting off on this this pain is kind of incredible i remember you know breakups that i've been through uh i can remember like driving through uh echo park in la chomping on painkillers that a satanist had given me to make me feel better he'd given me like a pocket full of Vicodin and just unknown white pills and i was so devastated and i'm chewing i'm not chewing them up i'm drinking them with water i hadn't gone that far but i was just slurping these pills back and uh just driving around in my car listening to fucking

elliott smith and like really just going for it right like this is the end of everything what am i what's that i still remember there's that awesome lyric that's just geared towards all opiate addicts which is future butterfly gonna spend the day higher than high and you hear that lyric is the Vicodin's kicking in and you're like that's me man i'm a future butterfly i'm so depressed i'm so sad i'm so sad and you lay on your mattress well at the time i just had a mattress on the floor you lay on your mattress on the floor and you like contemplate suicide and you lay there thinking how it's just like why even exist at all on this planet when your heart can get broken in this way it just seems like existence itself is pointless and uh in that feeling of having a

broken heart the question is where what is that feeling like where does that feeling come from that feeling of grief and and loss like what is that feeling really and there there was this revelatory moment i had once when i was tripping out thinking about the big bang and thinking about how um what would happen if there was a singularity or that we were all sort of swirled down or sucked into some pinpoint that had within it all the potentiality of all things that could ever possibly exist or will exist and it was just kind of a state of nothingness a kind of nothingness just humming out there in the emptiness and then by some accident i don't know why by some accident after just an infinite amount of time or non-time or whatever that stuff was it became aware of itself

it became aware of itself by some maybe a mistake maybe it was a mistake and it just became aware of itself and if you think about what that would be like if all of a sudden you were nothing yet everything and you woke up to the fact that you were a something with no way to express yourself at all no way to say somebody help me or oh god i feel so alone just a kind of infinite ever spreading out essential nothingness that was an awareness you would freak the fuck out you would be like fuck this man i'm exploding and that's what the big bang was it was that nothingness having a nervous breakdown and just like no and and and and everything everything just exploded out of that initial point it exploded out into

infinity and every single one of us here and every human being that exists is one tiny little piece of that initial holy fuck this sucks man oh we're fucked and that feeling inside of you that comes during heartbreak is not a feeling that is happening because you've lost someone that you've loved it's a feeling that's happening because you have come into contact with the truth which is that you are one tiny infinitesimal fragment of this what may have been the first heartbreak of all time which was when everything became a something and you if are experiencing within you that kind of broken fragmented sense of i'll never be whole again and uh as dire and dismal as that sounds the beautiful idea that is in a lot of different religious systems

is that in this human incarnation you can actually heal that feeling so you're like the big bang you're like this broken fragment of the big bang that for this little bit of time that you're here you can turn the focus of your attention inward and begin to love that scream love that initial thing that made everything explode and then if you can heal yourself then you'll begin to transmit that to the people around you and the big sweet awesome beautiful hippie idea is that if we all start doing that then eventually the universe will as it inevitably falls back into itself fall back into itself not as a scream of existential horror and agony but as a kind of ever accelerating exponentially increasing state of super orgasmic bliss and that's why we're here

cool all right that's the rant you guys awesome cool um so um our guests today uh i'm just gonna bring them up on stage um uh you just listen to one of them uh everybody please give a big round of applause to email amos let him hear it you back there email email where are you he's coming he's coming i don't know where he went oh there he is email amos everybody let him hear it uh and also our guests tonight are uh they're visionary artists uh you've definitely seen their art before uh they're also uh community builders they're actually working on building a temple right now and if you come back sunday night uh we're actually having a benefit at 10 o'clock to help them uh raise some money to build this temple

uh they're two of the most amazing humans i've ever met everybody please give a round of applause for alex and alex and gray let him hear it alex and alex and gray thanks you guys for being here thanks for having us hey thanks so awesome so uh i do have like and it kind of doesn't go with the rant or even what we're talking about i do have a really cheesy question i want to start this uh talk off with do you guys pray and if you do what what what in what way do you say prayers i i say prayers all the time you know that prayer is like a i think the artwork is a prayer it's a different language but um if the creative art is dedicated to uh not just self-expression but um it it's a offering to divinity or to love something higher than just

you know getting one's name in lights or something like that then i think that that is prayer because if love is god god is love if i mean only out of heartbreak would god come into existence forget itself to such a degree and to evolve and go this far you know billions of years far to grow a consciousness to remember itself you know to begin to become aware of our collective uh our unity as a as a cosmos and define you know uh nodes outposts for the infinite you know in each of us that we can access any access to that access which is our you know our true nature and that's why creativity is such a an easy way into it you don't have to believe in any mythology all you have to do is do your what you love to do the most what turns you on but what you know some people i

wanted to tell you though way we pray though and i just wanted to say that uh every every night whether we're in a hotel or whether we're in our studio in brooklyn around the corner from here or up in in wapinger at cosum for a couple of hours at least from usually three or four hours we paint and we draw and we work on our art to music and that to us and that to me is my prayer it's art we call it art as a spiritual practice we actually do it at cosum at our church on a sunday afternoon we just get a really good dj usually john ohia and then we he plays amazing amazing music and we bring our art materials and we make art together quietly that's really prayer if you if you stop the language if you stop the symbol making out of your mouth then it becomes symbol

making right through from the divine right into your work it's just kind of like this channel so you'll be quiet and you listen to music and you make art and it's a prayer wow so cool man i wish you guys lived near me i go to church all the time really that's why we well that's our favorite thing so when we people say well why don't we do something on a sunday afternoon so that people can come up and see the place you know walk around the grounds and you know have an experience of the woods and whatever but you know we always have these evening parties these late night things you know why don't we do something so we said well what would we like to be doing on a sunday afternoon and that's it would be just get somebody to be a dj or a really great

musician sometimes we have the planetary gongs that's really amazing resonant like you know or or a didgeridoo player sometimes you get somebody who'll come up and play for you but a lot of times it's also incredible music and we just shut up and make art for a good while email um i remember once we were on a train in india i don't know where we were and uh like a police officer was trying to steal my clock radio because he uh he really wanted it it was fancy and uh he was telling me about how he prayed or we were talking about some some religiousness and he said that uh he said he prayed for to have good teeth keep the teeth have nice hair keep the hair and for money or something and i remember thinking well that could skews like

the praying concept you know like uh here i am we went all the way to india to find something you know i was like that's not what we were looking for but uh but if you i mean it depends on how you want to define it but but certainly i think how annoyed that god would be by the way like how many prayers like you'd have to have special you'd have to have so many call centers set up just to answer the hair prayer which i've certainly have said a few times why it's all gimme gimme gimme too there's no like thank you for what i've gotten and praise praise praise for all the beauty no no appreciation in there just gimme gimme so i don't think god likes that i think you have to start off what is it alex there's a structure to

it you have to start off oh please praise god oh please oh you know and uh oh i i have been so wrong i oh that's right yeah i i am so sorry actually for everything and now i want a pink pony yeah right right yeah you can't go into the pink pony first well so then there's and then there's like there's like the act of of singing i guess is a is a and like like the moaning that like the healing quality of of singing is kind of like uh on one hand even maybe in some high-digger way it kind of puts you into the world you know you kind of you're doing something now you're not thinking about who you'd like to be or whatever you know your teeth you want but you're uh you're kind of um you're in the world now so this is like

kind of a healing quality to singing so i guess for in terms of prayer yeah i mean i think of making music is like several different things the form of magic i'm sure you guys think the same thing but like uh transformative healing process you know psychotherapy i could think it could be many different things but praying is it's a way you could describe it well so here is this beautiful form of prayer that you guys all identify through art this is how you're contacting this kind of timeless state it is kind of timeless right like when you're doing it there's that odd evaporation of time thing that happens chronoside is that what you call a killing of time that's that's so it sounds like a great like super villain actually but but that is a but that

that is a disconcerting feeling i think uh when you have set out to work on something creatively and then you look up and five hours have passed or four hours have passed and you have that moment of thinking where was i i wasn't there like who was doing this because it wasn't me i wasn't there at all and i think that uh that's a little scary for some people i think a lot of us don't like that feeling because it reminds us of death or it's a sense of being so out of the world that it's really scary for some people and also i i don't know how many people here are artists like you guys are but what if somebody doesn't have some specific thing they're not they don't paint or sing or they are or whatever they they don't have anything what do you recommend for them

be creative no everyone is creative as we live we're all creative so just do that don't make yourself wrong you don't have to be mark spitz to love to take a dip in the pool you know or be Lance Armstrong to like a bicycle ride you might as well you know paint if you if you enjoy it you don't have to be great yeah but but still it's like not everybody you know i think that there's such a stigma attached to when i sit down to try to draw or to do anything and i that it involves like visual arts and i look at what i've done it's just like it's like yoga though you have to practice it gets better right i just picked up the piano again i'm you know it's like you have to practice it gets better i i think also if you look at the outsider art you know you'll see work

that's done with strong intention it's the intention that and freedom uh and courage that you put in the stroke it's not the you know how great you know you've studied how many years at the art students league and everything even though i salute that and i think it's awesome too but i think that authentic art can be made by children and if it can be made by children it can be made by any of us it's just that we would tamp that down and don't want to show it to people you don't have to show to people just keep it alive you know it's like auto rock said that the the neurotics are unexpressed creative people and so you just find a means to express in and everyone talks so we're each one of us the creative authors of the story of our life however we enunciate and throw that story about

what we made it mean that's creativity and you can apply your imagination to it and spin it in whatever direction you choose because it's your life you know and so that's the ultimate form of creativity it's not that you can control all of the outward circumstances but you are the master of how you author that story and what you're putting out in the world and what you tell yourself so i think that's some good stories well good stories are very important who are you is a good story and really the better you better you are at articulating the positive about it everyone will believe you it's all a point of view you say articulating the positive about it do you think there's there's you have to be authentic you can't just pretend that you're some way but you know

there are different points of view on every subject you know i missed out on this and look at all i've become you know i didn't have everyone doesn't have something and look at what i made of myself so it's like you know keep the past it's like okay it wasn't uh it gave you a stepping stone toward this brighter future that you have continued to imagine so your imagination is the critical tool that you use to form a more glorious future and this is what we have to do as a human species is imagine a world that we find hard to imagine at this point you know as some of the occupy friends said you know why is it more possible to imagine apocalypse than it is the end of capitalism if i may please literally play devil's advocate here uh because it's exactly what the devil would

probably say if there were a devil uh and in the last podcast we did i noticed that you know i do have a tendency sometimes to go towards the negative or to like illuminate negative things and i'm not sure why i do that but i i you guys and like a lot of folks from the ramdas people that i've met they have this amazing artful way of always guiding it back into this beautiful space that you're talking about and yet here we have you know certain musicians and certain artists who don't go into that space who seem to be completely okay with eviscerating themselves and through their art and and and revealing and illuminating the very darkest corners of the world the most awful awful things from you know the obvious stuff like burzum or like black metal and that kind of

stuff which some of it's real like some of it's you can hear there's like a real thing in there to like some of the more like what i was talking like elliot smith for example who that the every single song that he sings is so sad and so like uh so touching and its sadness did he was he going for the positive did he would we have let would we have missed out if he had decided you know what i'm gonna try to sing about how everything's okay but he turned it into something creative you see when you when you take your passion or your ugliness or whatever and reveal yourself through some creative way that means that you're sharing it that means you're taking it out of the first quadrant which is inside your mind where nobody can see it you're putting it out in the world

where it's can be seen by you and then you're sharing it with the community where it can be seen and shared with a lot of other people and if it's anything it will get some commentary back from the community the mind of the community the group of the community will like press the like button you know or they'll write a little review about it or something so whatever he did which is i love some very depressing music and i love very sad i mean you you know it just it can be so powerful to cry and to go into your deep well of sadness but then you know to to for the artist to have shared it so powerfully that you connected with that part of yourself ain't that what art's all about that's what we want right the full circle yeah

Beethoven ran the full spectrum and i think that any great work of art would attempt that same thing we're not just talking about the light you know you need the shadow in order to make a compelling world as god frustratedly has discovered yeah and so you're some of your art yeah your art certainly isn't some of it a lot of it's incredibly beautiful and psychedelic but like some of it is definitely you wouldn't say like this is all completely sweet positive stuff it's really diving deep into really some of it very frightening places both of you i just found out backstage they've dissected human bodies that's nuts it was a mystery school yeah it was a mystery school that our daughter invited us to into after she had already done it herself wait

your daughter dissected before you did she did i drove her to this place you can go and have this experience it's an amazing experience and we met the person and she wanted to do it and it was at the new jersey medical school and it's a friend of our community who offers this opportunity for late people but anyway she had done it and she invited us the next year when he came back to the new jersey medical school we all three of us did it so there you go and it's a pretty incredible mystery i had worked at a medical school uh for five years previous as well and did some dissection work there and had taught it and we went to the hunter college place to draw with your anatomy for 10 15 years i taught anatomy and took people to the morgue

also to draw the canavars and things like that so but this class is different than that you know it's a really it's a mystery school it's an unveiling of the body the first day you take all the skin off the second day you take off the superficial fascia then the next day you work on the organs and you know the lord well maybe it's the larger you know extremities the muscles and stuff a lot of the people that were there would be um body workers and um personal trainers and people who hadn't had the opportunity that like say a physical therapist or a doctor would have gross anatomy wow literally gross anatomy no thanks man it's so intense i i know what you're saying though i well this is part of why you guys are so cool is because you are not afraid to go

into those places and you are able to turn it into something positive but it's terrifying to imagine being around like opening up like when i think about the fact that there's stuff underneath this oh it's so it's so terrifying but you guys have managed to to somehow turn that into something it's beautiful through and through there's no part of it that isn't a masterpiece and so you you carve away layer by layer and see perfection no matter what condition the physical body was in it's like has there ever been you know a not a beautiful dog you know it's like they're all beautiful in some way i mean we're right on the same street as the morbid anatomy museum oh yeah you know which is in our neighborhood right here the park slope this is our neighborhood

actually and we've lived here since 1983 yeah it's it's it's very cool and with the it's a great place to learn taxidermy if you like and and what do they have what's what's in is it's a museum of squirrels they have stuff like rodents they have displays of squirrels and rodents they have them on carousels and at the bar you know and serving behind the bar they're all taxidermy and kind of dressed up you should see it it's like a dollhouse if you have a spare dollhouse you could put a stuffed squirrel on it a couple of dioramas when you say it's perfection at all levels that when when i've looked at anatomy or you look at the human body even if you look at the very deepest level at like the at dna itself there's something about it that seems weirdly alien do you know what

i mean where you look at what's going on under this and it you think to yourself how did the earth produce this how did this come from uh a planet orbiting around a sun how is it possible that this somehow through some current that we can't understand over the course of billions of years it produced such perfection do you what do you what do you guys think uh this came from do you uh do you feel that uh human evolution was influenced god forgive me for asking this question uh do you think human evolution was influenced by um aliens yeah thanks for finishing it for me i think it still is you know always was probably still is and they're because there are influences from one dimension to another for conscious beings and so most of the uh UFO type things seem uh

interdimensional as much as uh extraterrestrial whether they're actually extraterrestrial you know and not the time machines you know is anyone's guess it's got to be the uh the largest the hugest uh mass hallucination of uh that humanity's ever had or there's something to it and the disclosure projects are uh showing that there are there's something going on so look i love how young left it which was it leaves the door cracked open to mystery and uh i was surprised by how many people had completely shut the door on the crop circle phenomena oh i have a whole thing about it's an astonishing even work of art if you just look at it from year to year like what force has created you know yes many of them are fake now and there are fewer

than there were at the peak season but to look at it as a phenomena it's unquestionably strange but what does it look like just to for just for a moment it looks like it comes from artificial intelligence okay so it looks like it's coming it could not be made without a computer let's say a lot of them are so complex and the circles are so circular and the way they do the sacred geometry and everything is so it's so has to be somehow projected or something from through artificial intelligence my feeling about it is it has something to do with either like you said another dimension that we're not able to access but we do sometimes i feel access on ayahuasca and dmt and things like that that that alter our level of ability to perceive

into another realm but also the the very idea of the future like since very long ago the idea of time travel has been you know you know played with and i feel that if there were future intelligences that wanted to reach back to us they would reach back to us through artificial intelligence rather than sort of beaming down or coming to earth that's physical location changes much more difficult than say sending something through invisible realms or invisible wires i mean we know that there's invisible waves we know there's lots of invisibility in this world so why would that not be completely something that would would be discovered and accessed well this is something you know uh god this is great we're exactly where i was hoping we get

to this is something where uh you know uh to me one of the most psychedelic religions is christianity and maybe i maybe maybe i think that because uh when i when i first started figuring out what christianity was it was when we were in college and we were taking acid together and i was taking lsd and i'd sit down and read the gospels and when you do that on acid oh do it trust me just do it it's incredible because you're the all the conditioning where you think you know what christianity is or whatever your experience with in the past it gets stripped away by the drug and so suddenly you're revisiting this thing with completely brand new eyes and you look at it and you think to yourself in the same way with crop circles you think somebody made that like i don't

know who made it but it's hard for me to look at that and think that it's some you know some you know rednecks with planks on their feet like four feet to the right that's it yeah that'll make the perfect dna helix that's it yeah you it's hard to believe that when you see that stuff perfect it's too perfectly crafted it has to come out of artificial intelligence that's it well artificial it's interesting you're saying artificial intelligence that's the first term where they would talk about sending you know being able to send messages mental images and messages through invisible space right but the term artificial intelligence i think is uh such a human term and it's a really funny term because it's like when it's intelligence is intelligence like

if i'm a if i like i'm if i'm a sentient thing and and a monkey descendant is like that's artificial your artificial really mean right means that somebody made it like you have artificial flowers that means people made the flowers i see not make it all right now this is this gets back to the original question are we artificial intelligence that's the real question if we've been manipulated by some kind of alien consciousness or an alien's the wrong word for it and i i do hate that word i think it's a dumb word but if we've been if what's happening here on this planet if is not just you either decide that what's happening on this planet is just a kind of like cosmic blender that somebody put press puree and like somewhere over the course of billions of years oh look there's monkeys in

there now can you believe it it's making monkeys wow who'd have thought it doesn't look like that though there's too much honor in the universe right it doesn't look like that at all it seems more like there's some other kind of compulsion or a transcendent force that seems to be pushing us or pulling us in the direction of something and um and and you know right now we're witnessing the birth of a new intelligence which they're calling artificial intelligence which is of course not really what it is so much is it seems like it's the you know in the invisible man movies like if you want to see the invisible man you throw paint on him right yeah and it seems like that's what technology is doing to this up until this point completely ephemeral impossible to identify force

the thing that's putting its thumbprint in crops and the things that's putting its thumbprint in dna it's like technology is finally going to allow us to see it and talk to it and that's what they're calling artificial intelligence when in fact it's the voice of eternity that's being tuned in by the some result of all human effort which we call technology thank you i i love that because what we are is really an artifact we are an artifact of the cosmos and of a chain of births that has gone on for billions of years and so as the outside chain of cause and effect we are the artifacts of this era you know and if god's fall or heartbreak that resulted in us little shards was the

uh that that was the uh artificer the divine artist you know that brought us here so that we could remember our creators uh you know sort of code our origin you know that we're just we're creative to reclaim it you know bring it to life that makes sense i think that a big problem with that alien concept is that you picture like a guy in the woods like looking for bigfoot or something which which presupposes separation forever you know you're just sort of looking for this thing out in the wilderness that has the other you're looking for the other and so if you go back to the big bang idea sort of a implication of separation at at the beginning of everything there's a there's a dissonance or there's like a

sort of tension there that's already implying that we're like trying to integrate with ourselves and and like you've implied with this process of evolution is sort of like this uh this positing of the unconscious you mentioned young and so i think young's part of his theory about UFOs was they were circular people would see disks because they were projecting the need to integrate with themselves to become whole so i think there's a disservice in thinking about aliens you know because they are out there when really we are attempting as you're kind of pointing out with technology to kind of become our destiny and and integrate with ourselves and so that dis that dissonance from the big bang is still within us and this this act of creativity or singing

like the blues or moaning or praying it's kind of it's kind of a unification process or and we're coming closer what you're talking about is we're coming closer and closer to uh the realization of what we're going through you know but to take it back to the alien thing it's such a like sort of fifties way of pushing it outside yourself you know and thinking there's something weird out there in the woods you know or whatever and i don't think that that's necessarily really like the right connotation you know when you're looking for super strength health and intelligence and and happiness you know i don't think you're really looking for something weird out there in the woods you know what i mean what you find is something weird in there yeah and uh when you smoke DMT

as rick strassman has pointed out that's you know you get the whole range of quote alien encounters and uh terence of course was fond of making that allusion you know between the are they angels are they aliens are they uh simply um you know just other beings we we can't say what we're only seeing through this uh recalibration of our psyches in order to catch those other dimensions you know in flatland they talked about the how the you know the sphere appeared on in flatland was as a point and then as a succession of circles because in flatland you could only see what showed up on one plane and so when we take psychedelics perhaps we're able to see some of the extra dimensions that are operational but we're just you know our we have the blinders on

in order to prevent you know sort of uh cosmic orgasms every minute why do we but why do we want to present those orgasms it's so interesting and also when you say perhaps sometimes i wonder when you say i've seen your art so it you it feels to me that there's no perhaps for you it's like you know you must know or do you or is it still a mystery to you do you still feel because you know recently i took uh i took uh mushrooms and uh mdma at the same time and i never it's amazing it's great combo great combination among our favorites you guys you guys are awesome because like i told one of my friends that and he's like you've gone too far dunkin what are you talking about well it was only a few weeks ago we had a most epic uh i would say landmark

experience with um l lsd and mdma yeah oh that's a good mix too that's a very good mix it's very similar but the timing's better on the ones that you're talking about yeah and i don't want to give the impression that this is something that we do all the time it just happens to be that we did it a few weeks ago but it's can go for we can go for half a year you don't need to do it that no you don't no you don't you don't need to do it that often but when you do do it uh holy shit man when i it was this was and it had been a long time since i'd done a full dose of psilocybin and uh what i saw was so beautiful and so filled with life and you know the word alien definitely is not the right word for that i don't know what it is but my god it's so real and when you're seeing

it there whatever it is which for me is just this you know this is what when i was hanging out the hard christian is there in the i don't think it's the bag of agita i think it's the shreemad bag of atam they talk about how the entire universe is teeming with life the universe is teeming with life and you can't we can't see all of it but it's there and when you take a nice dose of mushrooms that's what you see when you close your eyes is this thing is populated with disembodied extra-dimensional beings that are watching you back you're not just watching them they're watching you and they're teachers aren't they i mean for me they're teachers do you have teachers i think they're teachers yeah but they're the way they teach you is not the problem is because the public

school system has done this foie gras thing with kids where you're like like just trying to squeeze as much bullshit info into them as you can and then like kick them out like aren't you happy now you've memorized a bunch of nonsense go work uh so when you hear the word teacher you know a lot of us have the same association as people have been raised by christians when you hear the word jesus you're like fuck that they suck i don't want a teacher but i don't but these teachers you're talking about they don't teach the way they teach is not by like okay everybody sit down i'm looking for a teaching when i go in there i'm looking to come back with something i mean that's why i i don't need to do it very often is because i have a lot of work to do you know i mean

i learn an awful lot while i'm in there about myself and about the way i would like to be and the transform person that i you know that i expect of myself i do a lot of that and you know and see a lot of my negative stuff you go into bad shit it's real psychotherapy in there that's why they're using it and psychedelic science is really being used a lot in psychotherapy because it's it makes you you know even well people you know uplifted and better you know the betterment of well people you know you want to be a better person we all want to be a better anyway i do get incredible messages and i was going to tell you one of them can i just tell you one of my messages this is what ayahuasca taught me once um mother aya okay here it is you're you know when you are feeling

like terrified and upset and angry and at your worst and like things look really bad in the world you go to a window a portal where everybody else who at that very moment who's feeling angry and upset and terrified is also looking at that window we're all we're all looking out there together and we're all seeing the flaming horror and it smells and it's just disgusting and how you know like everything blowing up and people being miserable and everything and there's an incredible amount of agreement around that window everybody agrees with you yes it's terrible oh god the world is so awful it's going to hell in a hand basket okay then when you are praising when you are appreciating when you're loving when you're feeling good about yourself and you're

filled with joy there are times you're looking out that window this other window and everybody else who's praising loving and appreciating is enjoy enjoying themselves looking out that other portal which is filled with angels and iridescence and people are hula hooping i don't know it's just a beautiful world out there people are very very happy and the day is beautiful and everybody has an incredible amount of agreement around that window it is a beautiful day isn't it oh yes it is how nice that the spring has finally arrived it's just and yes and my child is so wonderful and how adorable everybody is having that experience so we all go to the windows and when we find ourselves in we don't not know that there is this window of terribleness we do not we're not unaware of that

even the Dalai Lama knows well how terrible the world is right but you Alex discovered the the technology the name for the technology really we call it navigating the turn it's about how do you get from there to there because you don't want to be looking out that window you know it's there but every time you find yourself there things go terrible and it's not fun and you're not in joy and you know you're not even really serving the world as the fully you know present god self that you could be you know when you're looking you know no you're watching the devil self yeah you're watching fox news man you're just like watching fox news you're drinking a beer you're like fuck man what am i doing this is uh i know exactly what you're saying and you know

what's so weird it's so funny uh wow it's so weird because you just reminded me of a dream that i completely forgot about and it's gonna sound so so cheesy that i say this now because but my my girlfriend's here who can back this up because i told her this dream that i had i had this dream uh i had this dream where you guys were saying to me duncan you got to pick what window you're gonna look out of well it's so weird and i think you may have mentioned on my podcast before recently this idea has come into my mind and it was being represented by both of you in this dream and um because i've noticed that if i wake up in the morning and this is why i started off with a prayer question i've noticed if i wake up in the morning regardless of how i feel

or regardless of what the day looks like if i just oh god this sounds so cheesy no no because it's navigating the turn duncan i know exactly what you're navigating the turn if i wake up in the morning and i inject myself with black tar heroin i see it no i'm just kidding i'm just kidding if i wake up in the morning and i and i and i say thank you thank you thank you thanks for the bed that i'm laying in and thanks for the room that i'm sleeping in and thank you that i get to experience anything at all and thank you thank you thank you thank you then for the rest of the day everything becomes beautiful and vivid and sweet and wonderful and great and more synchronicities happen and and and it's sort of like it's kind

of shocking to me uh because you know you hear people all the time saying you should pray prayer works prayer works you gotta try praying pray you should pray pray pray pray what's that there you go you even hear that pray pray to st anthony but it's it's you know you hear these things like that all the time and you're like shut up i'm not praying to st anthony what are you talking about but then you start experimenting with it and you know it's it's sort of like the there's i don't remember the exact quote crolee came up with this great poem maybe you know i wouldn't be surprised if you did but it's like and i'm gonna mispronounce it but it's something like we don't care about the dove or the pigeon he's talking about the symbols of christianity we don't care

about the symbols we don't care about i'm miss i'm totally misquoting we don't give a shit about the dove or the pigeon our method is science our aim is religion and his approach to the thing is do this scientifically try it scientifically because if you think about it one thing that science has yet to be able to send satellites into or probes into or fly any kind of device into is the great unexplored realm of the subconscious mind or the subjective experience of being a human being science can't get in there yet we can get probes to mars we can get probes floating out into the darkness of outer space but no one has yet as far as i'm aware managed to get any device into the inner space that exists within a human being we can't do that through science so we have this very

unique experience human incarnation and if you start playing around with metaphysics from a scientific perspective and think all right if i start praying in the morning does it cause the needle to shift at all on the meter between good and bad and if it causes it to shift at all if there's any kind of shift one way or the other if it goes to bad don't do it but if it goes to one a little bit to one then there's something there then keep doing it but i've noticed when you do it fucking the meter goes all the way to the other side it's incredible the effect that it has so uh i don't know where i'm going with that i guess i've turned this into a fucking tent revival you should pray you guys just do it god loves you and jesus will heal you friends

well i'd say that god's looking for you just about as hard as you're looking for god and so uh it helps if you have some intention toward it and the science is as uh unavailable as that um inner world probe is yet uh of course we do have the arts as uh you've mentioned and that's uh our point about visionary art is now science has shown that psychedelics can induce repeatedly a mystical experience in people 65 percent of the time for spiritually inclined people according to the johns hopkins study which replicated the good friday experiment back in 62 so we've got good science that says okay psychedelics can give people a mystical

experience 65 65 percent of the time so uh now what is that mystical visionary experience what does it look like because there are repeatable elements to it because people who have seen who've been there who then see visionary artists artwork say it was it was something like that like that and so in effect they are creating an encyclopedia of um some of the areas that have been visited by psychonauts and this is very similar with darwin he didn't have photography he had drawings you know uh the same thing with the uh even areas out west and stuff before photography they had beer stock you know and some of the hudson river school painters would go out and uh make paintings of the areas that were way far away but couldn't hadn't been seen by anyone

and they brought back visions to show people so that's what's happening with the visionary arts is there those are the the lunar uh you know probes of the uh visionary mystical experience and i think that that's resulting in a new kind of sacred art beautiful that's so cool you guys are making maps that's what you're doing it's really cool yeah beautiful it's it's uh it's almost cliche how much we talk about this but i feel like the ground floor of some of of some of what we're talking about is that moment when rom das took the acid as dick albert and we mention this all the time but it's that important so whatever uh but he's like uh what is he he's i feel like you visualize him in the beginning of be here now or where he looks at his life as he starts to peek

he's sitting on the couch i think the couch just starts to disintegrate and he sees his plane palpably in front of him disintegrate disappear and his wardrobe and his limo and his mansion or what everything in his life and then he sees himself disintegrate and then through a process of death and rebirth he learns to trust the world he learns to trust life and be alive after he dies so when you watch people who are extremely i don't know it seems to come natural to them you know and you're asking them about making art i think you don't get to see a lot of the incredibly hard work that goes into like achieving somewhat of a state of of grace going through that death and rebirth thing and then learning to just kind of act natural with

this kind of ghastly system you know like like he's talking about looking underneath the skin and finding it beautiful you know you're you're kind of not getting to see all the dirty work you know that that goes into getting to that state of of acknowledging things and integrating with it but i always think of that and i think that's why we always mention it but like like there's a lot of steps in between getting to that place you know that that's like like you said i think it's a lot of hard work involved in that but like you were saying like you know you're never ever going to get there if you're just doubting yourself or if you if you cut yourself off and you're like this drawing is a piece of shit or whatever it's you know you have

to completely give yourself to this thing and i think that's why you know when you first touch your toes and you haven't done yoga for a really really long time it's really hard to touch your toes and then if you practice three days it's a lot easier to touch your toes so it doesn't really take that much to see progress if you are going in a direction that you love you know like if you if you think of yourself as an artist and you don't practice any art i think it's a health factor i think it means that there's a block it's like i have this identity as an artist that i'm not fulfilling so every you know like subconsciously in your mind rotating every minute is this i'm an artist and i'm not fulfilling and so instead of just you know thinking that you have to be you know

alex gray you know as an artist or forget it you just you know you you join our church or you come in you know figure painting draw once in a while or you just sit there when you are in an airport and draw your hand or on a plane or you i have a travel kit you know and if you travel a lot you know you can always pull out something sketchbook alex's and i are never without them but anyway so it's just and that's just for art i know for some people it's music i just started practicing piano i'm carrying a keyboard with me on the road as i like to practice and you see improvement that's cool so you're saying it's yeah you're absolutely right it reminds me of like press field the war of art where he says you're just making up all these reasons to not do it it's

really simple just well it just makes you happy to do it though and it makes you so unhappy i mean really if you want to be happier i don't know improve like like think of the the areas in your life that you want to improve and then like take baby steps towards it every day exactly because the same aesthetic force to make a work of art better is the same kind of aesthetic force that you want to make a better program or a better blog or a better podcast you know anything that we want to do better that's our creative edge and we can find that in anything that we do in life so there's always evolutions in our hands you know love it you guys are the best thank you so much for doing this show give them a round of applause you guys let him hear it thank you

how much how much time do we have for questions i think we might have 15 15 okay great so i'm gonna put this microphone down here and if you guys have some questions for us feel free to ask i hope you have some well i don't mind taking just a moment to say that we're having an we're having just to repeat that we're having a benefit event on sunday night and you're still welcome that's right you guys build a temple come sunday at ten you guys it's our temple so just so you know guys we've only got 15 minutes so the folks at the end of the line might get cut off so i'm sorry if that happens oh okay soon yeah you guys come sunday ten o'clock please

come the show tomorrow night sold out but after that i'm gonna be hanging out email's gonna be hanging out it's just gonna be a blast so please come jim kidder and space uh space jesus but jib kidder i'm telling you if you don't know jim kidder and space jesus they are gotta come i'm telling you our favorites we cool mike's on friend music you gotta come hey everybody how's it going hey awesome so uh kind of a self-serving question but only for a moment uh one of my favorite monologues that you've done don't can you talk about thinking about like your depression as like darth vader or as like something really evil so ron give it a name so ron give it a name that's that's my favorite i'm staying in front of you today as someone who's not depressed anymore

because i gave it a name took out like a big sword flaming justice yada yada yada struck it down like it was an evil dragon have you done that for yourself get him out of here and get him out of the building that's a great question yeah well i you know i think one really important thing to realize when it comes to that sort of thing is that you don't just do it once you know you don't do it once and if you think you do it once then you're in for a big disappointment because that thing comes back again and again and again and it's a process but i have i mean right now i'm there i'm very happy and i think that but you know i have gotten much better at managing my depression and knowing that when my when the depression is coming like i know

what it looks like when i'm starting to get depressed which is that i you know my underwear suddenly is like on the counter and like there's you know what i mean like okay well that that means that like you know something's something's going wrong so and i have tricks for that uh usually and really unfortunately like really really annoyingly basic things because you want your the depression wants to be Darth Vader the depression wants to be a complex foe and what and so it'll tell you that it's a very complex foe and then that will make you less inclined to fight it but i've noticed that i mean it's so depressing because you want to think that the way you're gonna cure your depression is like reading Dostoevsky and then like after a certain period of like

meditation you're gonna it's gonna you're gonna beat it but really get a fucking bike ride a bike go outside and ride a bike for a few days in a row on a nice day start jogging oh push ups it's the worst to imagine that this dark thing could be beaten by like an exercise program and eating better it sucks but i've noticed that those kinds of things at least diminish it to the point where then when you start reading Dostoevsky or meditating then you can finish it off so yeah i may i just say that i i also kicked off postpartum depression for any of the ladies out there that might be going through that i couldn't have been a more happy and excited mother when i had my one daughter but i had postpartum depression anyway i mean it just it's hormonal it just happens and

exercise did it absolutely for me i went to the guanis uh still have it around here exercise place and i went there changed my life cool thanks for the question so all right so um i actually have a podcast too and i got to speak to diana slattery the other day she says yeah she says hi uh my question is what's the name of your podcast it's called the tink tink club podcast cool yeah we deal mostly with like uh using psychedelics as medicine uh but my question is how do you this is for everybody how do you feel about uh coming of age trips like uh have you ever read uh huxley's island of course yes you know very influential how do you feel about like young children sort of using psychedelics to as a catalyst for sort of the rest of their life

i just want to introduce diana slattery into the and just say that she has a new book out called xeno linguistics psychedelics and language one of the best books i've ever read on xeno linguistics psychedelics and language and i wrote the forward for it because i my work for 40 years has been dealing with secret language that came out of a psychedelic experience the one that i had after i read be here now by rom dos and he told me to do uh psychedelics with the spiritual intention like now they're studying at johns hopkins and to see if i could see the white light and it was an intention that i stated to my two friends that we were doing it together and i did and that was the first time i saw god and i went from being a kind of a you know i don't know a existentialist jew

to a mystic or a you know a believer seeker seeker of meditation yeah well the question is what about giving psychedelics i think you're saying like is it a form of initiation giving psychedelics to like a coming of age thing like you've talked about people going to a festival for the first time and it's sort of like a life changing thing well yeah i mean the thing you know the yeah people are here's the thing you hear again and again and again oh we've got to keep the drugs away from the children what's his name that shitty governor what's that angry governor that chris christy that fucking asshole he uh he um christy is like yeah you i don't care if seventy first five percent of the country thinks marijuana should be

legal i'm not going to be the one responsible for our kids taking psychedelics and then that weird pundit on fox news which was so strange to hear someone on fox news played that clip and he said governor christy if you want to protect the kids you better make ice cream illegal because that's killing a lot more people than marijuana yeah it was awesome it was so good but you know these these buffoons like chris christy they seem to think that the prohibition is keeping kids from doing psychedelics but you know i can remember at the uh when i the first time i was shown an anti-drug film strip way way back when we didn't even we didn't have we had film strips man like ding and then a frame pops up and ding and then a frame pops up this is an

anti-drug film strip and they get to the point with lsd and they're like people who take lsd i remember the thing the frame pops up there's a guy in an empty room curled up in the corner and they're like people who take lsd suffer from visual hallucinations and sometimes they see dragons that's all i took i'm like i gotta get some lsd that's fucking awesome you see dragons amazing what is this stuff you know because that's the that's you know kids are naturally going to be drawn into that experience because it's the root of myth it's possibly where all mythology comes from and i think there is a there's a momentum inside of everyone that wants to connect with that level of information so uh i i think that you know an anti-drug person would hear you and be like

oh so you're suggesting that we give psychedelics to our children our number one hope for this country it's like they're going to give themselves psychedelics it's the difference is going to be if we figure out a way to de-stigmatize psychedelics and we figure out a way to scientifically demonstrate that there are therapeutic benefits and i say even that term therapeutic benefits it's just so shitty but if we figure out a way to show that these are healing things and that they're just as good as reading a book if used responsibly and in the right way then uh i think that what will happen is that instead of getting these youtube videos of 14-year-old smoking salvia in front of their playstation i don't know if you've seen that there's like a

youtube video of this kid i saw this youtube videos this kid salvia videos are a genre on youtube look him up it's like people freaking out on salvia it's this kid takes a hit of salvia goes back into that space when he finally silvers up he says one this really profound thing which i can't remember exactly what he said but he's like he said to his friends you guys i feel like i've known you forever and i think that we have been are in this dimension we've been in this universe forever together and i feel that we're all connected and his friend was like shut up faggot and punches him in like like punches him in the arm it's like shut up shut up so so the idea the idea would be to create a space for that experience where instead of getting punched in the arm somebody could then

yeah that's it yeah so i don't know i think that it's a it would be a very nice thing is it gonna happen soon i doubt it sure but we we had a daughter she grew up she heard all about it all along and um we've spoken about it at the world psychedelic forum and and you can see it online no we call it psychedelic family values but basically yeah i mean i i think um children can grow up with great respect for these sacraments and uh come out fine you know i mean it's like it's completely obvious you know i mean what do you want to say well they're uh they're different uh they're world religions that have uh integrated sacraments into their uh ceremonies and so uh they don't heavily dose young children uh the uh but there are initiatory dosages uh and uh with

some of the uh social groups like with ayahuasca and stuff and some of the shamanic groups that i've been around uh it's okay and then the santa daime it's okay for uh the kids to have a little bit you know and uh then they are participants in the uh in the sacrament and then they're uh at a time more uh in past teenage uh years or you know for the coming of age and and uh being a young man and woman and coming into 18 to 21 ages like that i didn't trip until i was 21 in my apartment and uh but that's cool but the uh but a lot of but a lot of young people uh have and and did do it my friends were doing it when they were 13 and so they did it with their peers they didn't do it with adult supervision they did it with their peers and sometimes it was a little ragged but

every one of them came back and um most of them without great percentage of them without any difficulty whatsoever and the and the and the thought that that young people uh there's only a small percentage of young people experiment is completely erroneous it's really about 95 percent of young people experiment and um so i just i just wanted to um say that well what was i gonna say about it i i don't know whether oh well in this neighborhood for instance i did want to do a little disclaimer because our daughter grew up in this neighborhood park slope and uh in many neighborhoods suburban neighborhoods and things like that you really cannot allow that to go on in your home because of the other parents and the way they feel about it today we were still outlaws

and people uh you know will send social services after your children or at least they won't let their children come to your house so you really do have to take that into consideration it's like where are you because when you are in the middle of an ayahuasca community where it's supported to to do a little snippet at eight years old listen i went to Passover satyr we all drank wine okay and everybody else went to some little little wedding or party when they were little and they drank the stuff off the table you have these these uh you know experimental moments when you're eight and ten and twelve or whatever and some of us become super you know alcoholic and some of us don't so but anyway um in this community where it comes to these substances you really

do have to be incredibly uh sensitive to the way other people feel you are in close quarters they're going to school with your children they're talking about things we were very careful when Zena was growing up not to you know have it around or be in any way well i didn't even want those experiences around her i wanted no responsibility when i had those experiences not the thought that i might do something wrong be an idiot or something you know i i wouldn't want anything to go wrong so i took responsibility for that not happening and she never was around it until she was older and i think i think that's one of the sad aspects of the prohibition is that it creates this police state where you actually have to worry about entering into these states of consciousness around

you know this just happened i don't know if you heard about this but this woman i don't remember which state she was taking marijuana for an actual medical disability that she has in the state like took her kid away from her because the kid was so the right now we're in a place where if you give your child a bloody marry like my uncle jimmy used to love doing with me like yeah come here come here come here drink this drink this he'd give me fucking hammered man and it was funny like no one's gonna be like it's funny but an alcohol if you look at like how deadly and dangerous a drug that is man it's an it's a terrible drug but if uncle jimmy had been like here smoke this marijuana uncle jimmy would probably be in jail right now getting this shit kicked out of him

for like giving marijuana to a kid so it's a really sad thing you know we just got the light do we have time for one more question we have time for one quick question yeah all right so um like you and a lot of your listeners we're all like we get all giddy and excited about the idea singularity and that's becoming one with technology but i like that this whole idea of it looking like something like another archetype from young and it's you know like the trickster or the shadow it's just something that is culminating in the hive mind it's just another another archetype like it represents like death like that van horizon what lies beyond life and what happens after that and it kind of like the current of the themes are like rebirth or evolution and i don't know

i just wanted to hear your thoughts on that idea on the singularity yeah well i did on the archetype of you know like you know so here's the difference i would say why is it coming up the difference between the so if the difference between the singularity as an archetype uh and maybe those other archetypes you mentioned yeah is that the literal definition of the thing is it's the place we can't see beyond so that the singularity is this this so if you're if you're looking at Kurzweil's idea of accelerating returns it's that place in the L curve where this explosion of innovation happens where 20 000 years of human progress happens in a in a couple of years maybe in moments so if that happens if that happens 20 000 years uh trying to even understand what that is

to understand just how incomprehensible that is imagine if we went back in time 20 000 years and said to a hunter gather 20 000 years ago what do you think 20 000 years in the future is going to look like yeah guaranteed he's not going to be like man there's going to be this fucking cool watch that's going to connect to your phone and that's going to be able to he won't know in fact he might even not know that you could ride horses he's like he might they might not have figured that out yet so the singularity is a symbolic trickster even though i love that it's a really beautiful thing the reality of it is it's something that we can't as far as i understand it it's a thing we can't peer past because our brains aren't equipped

to predict that far into the future i don't know yeah it's like uh it's like a event horizon you can't see past like you can't see we like no one knows what happens after death it's the same idea kind of it's a you know and i just find it exciting like i don't know it's like why why is this idea oh like it even in the bible they talk about revelations is basically a singularity you know what i mean like there's a giant demon comes down right blackens the sky and then there's a uh a huge battle and then you know light comes from that like there's a rebirth so like you know there's a uh i don't know no i get where you're going it's like by the way the question is burnt down it's burnt down destroyed to be rebuilt again i don't know and it's like what do you guys think

i think do five m e o if you want to experience the singularity that's awesome i always thought the curts wilds definition of singularity had something to do with the moment in history and time in the future when uh robots were indistinguishable from humans and so i think in some ways they already are you know i mean i don't remember any phone numbers anymore it's just all in my phone but it's taking my brain you know and it's taking it on but there is a definite i don't know that it'll ever exist that's the singularity that i know about there's a lot of new different definitions of singularity and a lot of yeah go ahead i was gonna say i know a lot of humans who are definitely indistinguishable from robots that's not a new that's not a new thing

well you guys uh we gotta wrap it up everybody please give a big round of applause for my guest alex gray alex and gray evil amos thank you so much for coming out you guys i love you so much thank you you guys thank you how do you stop thanks for listening to the live podcast you guys and a big thanks to 920 coalition for sponsoring this podcast if you are one of volunteer definitely go to 920 coalition dot org or email hello at 920 coalition dot org all of those links are going to be at dunkintrustle.com and if you enjoyed listening to emol's music at the beginning of the live podcast you can listen to more of him by going to holysons.bancamp.com or checking him out on thrilljockey.com holysons i'll have links to that too you can also uh find out more about

alex and alexan gray by going to causum.org that's causum.org and uh that's going to connect you to everything related to alex and alexan gray they're incredible art and all the great work they're doing in the world thanks for listening you guys i'll see you next time Hare Krishna to my newborn baby boy the day you arrived was one of the happiest days of my life right up there with the day i bought my rv from that guy on the internet and insured it with progressive what a deal just no son i'll always be here for you and by here i mean in the middle of absolutely nowhere in my rv protect your baby with an rv policy from progressive take as little as four minutes to see what you could save at progressive.com progressive casualty insurance

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