Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Daniele Bolelli in BOX OF RAIN

Episode Date: November 10, 2016

Daniele Bolelli, The Drunken Taoist, History On Fire, joins the DTFH and we talk about the election and nothingness.

Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Hello friends. It is I, Dee Trussell, and you are listening to the Ducatrussell Family Hour podcast. Today is Wednesday, November 9th. The day after the American presidential election.

And it looks like Donald J. Trump, host of the Apprentice, host of Celebrity Apprentice, is going to be the next president of the United States of America. And many of you are a little upset about this. So I've got a clip I'm going to play to you that could be the antidote to your fear. This is a clip from a fantastic audio book called Experiments in Truth. And this is Ram Dass talking about righteousness and love. At one point I was studying with a very beautiful man named Anagorica Menindra. He was a Theravadan Buddhist teacher.

Lovely, lovely man. And I came to him one time and I said to him, Menindraji, I am so angry because I had so much anger in me for so many years and keeping grudges. And he said, Ram Dass, don't hold on to what is just old karma running off. Your anger is just old karma running off. And one of the traps that I saw that I was caught in was the trap of righteousness that I used to justify my anger. But I saw that love freed me back into the ocean and that anger didn't. And that I would rather be free than right.

And that's a scary and big one. And that if somebody does an abhorrent action, I have to cultivate the capacity to, as Kabir said and Maharaj used to quote, Kabir said, do what you do with another being, but never put them out of your heart. Do what you do with another being, but never put them out of your heart. That is a total prescription for social activists. Oppose, stand up, defy, confront, do what you do with another person. You stop their action.

You may have to imprison that person so that they don't hurt other people. You do what you must do, but you do it without closing your heart. And I don't mean the fraudulent, oh, I didn't close my heart. I mean, really, the quality of do what you do, but do it always in the presence of the beloved. There is an incredible poem by Thich Nhat Hanh, very beautiful Vietnamese monk. Do not say that I'll depart tomorrow because even today I still arrive. Look at me. I arrive in every second to be a bud on a spring branch,

to be a tiny bird whose wings are still fragile, to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower, to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone. I still arrive in order to laugh and to cry, in order to fear and to hope. The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death of all that are alive. I am the mayfly metamorphizing on the surface of the river. I am also the bird which, when spring comes, arrives in time to eat the mayfly.

I am a frog swimming happily in the clear water of a pond. I am also the grass snake who, approaching in silence, feeds itself on the frog. I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones. My legs as thin as bamboo sticks. I am also the merchant of arms selling deadly weapons to Uganda. I am the twelve-year-old girl refugee on a small boat who throws herself into the ocean after being raped by a sea pirate. I am also the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and loving.

I am a member of the Politburo with plenty of power in my hands. I am also the man who has to pay his debt of blood to my people, dying slowly in a forced labor camp. My joy is like spring, so warm it makes flowers bloom in all walks of life. My pain is like a river of tears, so full it fills up all the four oceans. Please call me by my correct names so that I can hear at the same time all my cries and my laughs so that I could see that my joy and my pain are but one. Please call me by my correct names so that I could become awake

so that the door of my heart be left open, the door of compassion. Open the door of compassion, sweeties. Don't slam it in Trump's face just because he's the creator of Trump's stakes and a self-proclaimed pussy grabber. This is a fantastic opportunity for you to continue to practice your ability to find compassion for all people. If you're a Trump supporter, this is a chance for you to find compassion for people who found in Hillary Clinton some representation of a humanistic ideal. And for those of you who are followers of Hillary Clinton,

this is a chance for you to find compassion for the hundreds of thousands of people who felt completely left out by a bought and sold shitty political system. This is a chance for everybody to practice compassion. And it doesn't matter if you fail in the attempt. It doesn't matter if you do a belly flop as you jump off of this spiritual high dive into the waters of compassion. It's the attempt. That's all that matters. What you don't want to do is slam that door shut and sit in the corner of your room

and rock back and forth in the fetal position as you tweet angry shit to white people, white women, white males, or whoever you feel is to blame for Donald J. Trump being president of the United States. Open the door and invite them in. Make them some tea and see if maybe they have something to teach you. You might be surprised. All right. That's all I got to say about that. Well, I'm sure there'll be other stuff that I say later on.

This particular podcast with Danielle Bilelli happened yesterday prior to the election. So we didn't know who the president was going to be. But it's not just about the presidential election. It actually gets into some very heavy duty territory about what it is to exist and what it is to be filled with emptiness and what is our true identity. This is a real blazer, friends. I hope you'll stick around. We're going to jump right into it. But first, some quick business.

This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by meundies.com. If you go to meundies.com forward slash Duncan, you're going to get 20% off your first order of some of the softest underwear that is ever incarnated on this planet that we call Earth. Meundies. It's underwear that is made of a fabric three times softer than cotton called Modol. They're beautiful. I'm wearing a pair right now, a blue pair of meundies underwear with paisley all over it.

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Mine are blue paisley. There's lots of other designs out there. But when you upgrade your underwear friends, your life transforms in the most incredible way. Sure, Donald Trump may be president, but that doesn't mean that your loins can't be embraced in the sweet softness of some incredible fabric created by the beautiful wizards of underwear over at meundies.com. Meundies.com forward slash Duncan, you'll get 20% off. They supported this podcast.

I hope you will support them. Also, we have a wonderful Amazon link located in the lower left-hand corner at DuncanTrustle.com. Christmas is coming, friends. Shit, you probably need to buy presents for all your broken-hearted friends now that Donald J. Trump is president of the United States or maybe you want to order one of Trump's incredible books. You can do this by going through the Amazon link located in the lower left-hand corner of the website at DuncanTrustle.com. When you do this, if you buy a Donald J. Trump book, they're going to give us a small percentage of that

or anything that you buy for that matter. They will give you a small percentage of, and it's a great way to show your support for this podcast. We also have a shop located at DuncanTrustle.com with t-shirts, pins, and posters. That's another way for you to support this podcast, but the best way for you to support this podcast is to subscribe to us on iTunes, give us a nice rating, and join the forum located at DuncanTrustle.com. Friends, I know it's a sappy thing to say, but I love you and I am incredibly grateful to you for continuing to listen to this podcast, and I hope no matter what side of the political fence you happen to be sitting on, that you are having a glorious day and an un-terrified experience right now.

Don't be afraid. We're going to be fine no matter what. Why? Because we've got each other, and that's way more important than any president or government or whatever the particular thing is that's pretending to be God. I love you guys. This is a fantastic podcast with one of my favorite people on earth, Danielli Bollelli, who is the host of two amazing podcasts, The Drunken Doughist and History on Fire. I will have links to these podcasts in the comments section of this episode at DuncanTrustle.com. Now everybody, please welcome to the DuncanTrustle Family Hour podcast, the brilliant Danielli Bollelli.

Welcome, welcome on you, that you are with us. Shake hands, don't be too blue. Welcome to you. Mr. Bollelli, we got to start this off with the most important question, what everybody wants to know. Let's go. Did you vote? I did, I did. Yeah? It's painful, man.

It's painful? Yeah, I mean this whole thing is just, politics has never been, you know, when in the history of the world you find awesome candidates, very rarely, if ever. Really? But there's a difference between not having the greatest candidates and having the shit show that we're looking at now, that's painful, that's really. Is there a historical corollary for this election that you can think of? I mean, again, to me, most elections are the lesser of the evil.

They're rarely ever, I can think of a case where I can think, oh, if only that person got in office, but still, lesser of the evil, even like a few years ago, by comparison, look awesome from far to now. I mean, I look at Clinton, I look at Trump, I have just projectile vomiting. The only satisfaction of this election is that one of them has to lose. Of course, that satisfaction will be overshadowed by the fact that one of them has to win. And that's where it's at. Oh, my God, you're right, because I do keep thinking, like, God, the look on Hillary Clinton's face,

if she lost to Trump, will be so funny, and the look on Trump's face, if he loses to Clinton, will be glorious. You guys listening, you know who won, we don't know who won, but you're right, no matter what, no matter who wins. We're fucked anyway. But are we fucked? I keep thinking of Ebola, I keep thinking of any other thing they try to terrify us with. Yeah, no, we're not fucked at the end of the day. We still get to do what we do. The problem is, I don't think that the President of the United States is really the most powerful person on earth.

Fuck that, you know, they can barely get Congress to do anything they want, let alone. But at the same time, it's true that it does give a push in a certain direction of the affairs that not only in the US, but also worldwide. Again, I don't want to overstate it like super important, but at the same time, it's not completely unimportant either. I remember when I hated Bill Clinton, I just could not stand the dude, and when Bush came into office about six months into it, after my whole thing was like, oh, they are all equally shit, doesn't matter, then I started looking at George W. Bush. I was like, Bill, where are you? Please come back.

And again, and I hated Clinton. So there are unfortunately different degrees of shit that do have a bit of an impact. There seems to be a growing distrust of the entire system. I have never seen it at this level before. I agree. And it seems like the one thing that everyone agrees is that the system is corrupt and the truth that's coming in from the media is not the truth. Sure.

So it's a fascinating thing in that the entire country, it feels as though the entire country or the majority of people in the country all agree that we don't know what the truth is. But the problem is half of us think that the truth is going in one direction, and the other half think that whatever that truth is is in the other direction. And so this is the incredible division. The division isn't some people are for Trump and some people are for Clinton. It feels like the division is more like some people think we're being lied to one way, some people think we're being lied to another way,

but the majority of us, it feels like we all feel like we're being lied to. Right. And I mean, it's one of those things like just because you're, what is it? Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not really watching you. Right. The classic thing is like, there are of course 7000 bullshit conspiracy theories out there. But at the same time, there are 7000 bullshit conspiracy theories because we have seen enough of real bad shit that gets done. That of course makes you think if this is true, then it's entirely possible that these other 20 things can be true.

Yeah. And it's, yeah, I mean, it's, I don't think it's different. I think back, back in the day, you know, 1940s, 1930s, people were just blind to the games that were being played behind, you know, underneath the table. The games have always been played. I don't think it's any more corrupt today than it was a hundred years ago. I just think that we know more about it and it's more in your face. So you think people, so back in the 40s and the 30s, people really did trust the government.

I think more so for sure. I mean, even if you look at the wars that the United States have been involved in, you know, you did not see that degree of mass protest on that scale for World War One or World War Two, or you start seeing it with Vietnam in a way that you have never seen before, you know. And after that, there really aren't too many wars after that, that many people are all gung-go-about. You know, you do have this sense of cynicism toward government. Again, only because the veil has been pulled back and you see what really goes on behind the curtains. Right. But that shit was going on all along.

It's just that I think people knew less about it. You know, you had less sources of information. You had less stuff to bring it out in the open. That's it. What do you think was the, historically, the least corrupt government that ever existed? Off the top of your head. I know this might be something you need to research. Yeah, because I mean, even if you go back, before even corporations were a big deal, right?

You feel, okay, then before corporations, that's when things were cooler. Look at the whole political machines of the 1800s when, you know, you walk into somebody's office and say, I can get you 10,000 Irish votes. What, how many jobs in the police department, in the fire department can you get? And then you go into the next one and you say, I can get you 10,000 votes. How many, what can you give me? You know, people openly sold votes, both and sold. Often was a long ethnic line.

You know, you have a community like Irish community, German community, something where you had immigrants who lived together in the neighborhood, who had zero power. The only power they had was to band together and try to sell their votes to the highest bidder and get a good deal that way. Sell for currency or sell for favors? Sell for favors. Job, if you get elected, you has 50 jobs as police officer.

You has 100 jobs in the fire department. You was, you know, that kind of stuff. And that was not considered outside the norm. No, that was just how it was done. You couldn't go past a certain point, but it was pretty blatant. You know, it wasn't, the corruption was major. So people even then were bought. Totally.

So, okay, outside of the United States, can you think, even an indigenous people, can you think of a political system that wasn't corrupt? I think my personal preference, things tend to work great as long as people know each other and they have the option to live. What works great? When people know each other. We are talking about a face-to-face community. Yeah.

And where people have the option to live. Right. Because, you know, if you have a tribe, if you have 600 people where everybody know each other, there's a certain degree of flexibility involved. There's a certain degree of, you know, you're not just going on campaign promises. You're going on, you know, you've known this person all your life. You know everything about them. So it's a little, and then the option to get out also is important so you don't end up

like the branch Davidians or something, this cultish tiny thing. But I like face-to-face community. And particularly today, I think that's where, to me, is really interesting, is how can we get the best of the old model of the tribes without all the limitations that go with being stuck with 400 people. And that's all the people you know and you're cut off from the rest of the world. How do we combine kind of a global consciousness with a tribal one? Because the reality is that there are great things in both.

You know, I don't believe that it's all, let's go back to the past in tribes and then everything will be great because first, it's not possible. Second, it's not even desirable. There are certain things that the modern world has brought that are awesome that you wouldn't want to give up. By the same token, there are things in the modern world that kind of sucks and that we could use. So to me, it's like finding the best of both worlds

and figure out how we can combine it. Didn't Stalin have some system called the... like weren't there little clusters of... Do you remember that? Yeah. Of course, in that case, he's running a super totalitarian regime. So even to the idea... What were they called?

I don't remember right now. They're called... God damn it, it's alright, let's have my time. But it was like even Stalin recognized this concept of like let's have these small little groups of people who are... I guess that's what... Is that what the electoral college is supposed to represent? Or is that the...

Yeah, but even then, even a state. A state is not a community. Even a city is not a community. There are way too many people. To me, a face-to-face community is one where you can sit around the fire with people and talk things out. Right. And it only works in small numbers.

Yeah. It only works at most when you're talking about a few hundreds. Above that is too big, you know, it's... And a few hundred is massive. Yeah, it's already huge. And even a few hundred, it starts spinning out. Yeah, two hundred or something. It's probably about the limit of what you can keep track to on...

More than that is insane. But yeah, when we think of the human family. Even within families, there's deception. Oh yeah. Deep deception. Right. And so it's like when you look at the... You know, I keep thinking that, you know, Trump's statement.

Make America great again. And then I think, God, man, what if he was saying, make yourself great again? Instead of make America great again. Like someone was running a presidency on the concept of... Let's see if we can make our individual selves fantastic. Yep. Our country naturally will be great. That would be such a more exciting platform to run on.

Big time, human development, their individual self-perfection, as opposed to your bunch of promises that are bullshit anyway. Yeah. And if the president was maybe saying, like, look, I know that I am a piece of shit. Like I've been looking at these videos of the terrible things I said, I was on blow. You know, like I lied about not being on blow. Guys, I was on blow.

Right. And I'm not using that as an excuse. Clearly inside of me, there is some awful lack of harmony between my masculine and feminine side. I'm scared of women. They've got this power. Let's face it, guys. You want to know what happened? My fucking mom used to beat me with a comb while she was jerking me off.

And like it fucked with my head, man. And then I got all this money. And you know, and if Hillary Clinton is like, God, you know, guys, I like, when I was younger, I really wanted things to be good. But then I got in a political system and like I married this fucking asshole. You guys have no idea what he did to me. Like you, you have no idea. He emotionally abused me in the most horrific ways.

I'm not saying I'm going to, I'm a victim because I fucking abused him too. And God damn it. I, we got money and then I wanted more and I don't know what I was doing. This presidency is going to be based on me working on myself because I suck. I need your help and we can all work on ourselves together because your shitheads too. Let's face it, your shitheads too. Probably that's a cool president, man. My only hope is Duncan for president in 2020.

God, you know, it'd be fun, man. I, you know, that you and me and like a group of, and that would be super fun to like, you know, have to deal because you could do things like the moment you have like Alex Jones, who starts bugling that you're in the Illuminati, you invite him to the White House. You're like, Hey, we're going to give you a tour. We're just going to let you go. Right. Check it out.

Here's the secret door. Yeah. The door is in the chamber. It's George Washington. Like, I don't know. He like when that's where Kennedy fucked some models, you know, but look, just check it out, man. I don't think we're in the Illuminati. Have him meet like the wealthiest people.

Like this is Dan Williams. You don't even know who he is, but he's a multi-billion. Williams is like, Alex, I'm a fan. I don't think I'm in the Illuminati. I just ended up with a lot of money. Right. You know, like just like we could do that. We could let people in.

Yeah. Like, look, I don't know. Are we in the, are you in the, I don't think there is an Illuminati. And then just diffuse the insanity by complete inclusivity and openness and see what happens. You know, bring the most vile racists over the most vile. You know, did you hear that story, man, about how there was like a black dude who started making friends with the KKK in his city. He started just intentionally getting around them and making friends with them.

And eventually he led to that, that branch of the KKK disbanding. Seriously? Yeah. Cause they were like, oh yeah. We were wrong. We were just wrong. That's fucking genius. No, I did not.

You already started. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what I'm saying though, man. This whole fucking anytime the election cycle happens and, and we all get fixated on this garish insanity.

Yeah. It feels like our attention gets taken away from what is truly within our control. Totally. Cause none of this shit ultimately is, none of this is under our control and none of these are under our control. So that's a, I realize I spend way too much fucking time on social media sometime and it's good to, you know, there are great things that pop out of it. But sometime I get too, and the election is a perfect example, but it's not the only

one, getting wrapped into all these arguments of people going one way, going the other. And it's all fucking wasted time at the end of the day because none of these really makes a difference in my life, in somebody else's life. And by difference, I mean a positive difference. Right. It's more of just this background noise of tossing things back and forth, which really nobody wants to listen to the other side anyway. Yeah.

There's kind of the I'm right fuck you all. Yeah. So it's like, why are we even doing this? You know, it's like, so to me, my approach has been, and my life has improved considerably as a result. I do like Facebook, check it twice in a day. Well, just take a look, same thing, Twitter or something. Take a look.

Okay. Done. Okay. Let's check it again at night. I'm not saying discard it all because there are useful things with it. I'm done with, there are benefits, but at the same time, there's so much clutter, just noise. God, your discipline.

Yeah. The discipline to do that. My beady little eyes are fixated on that fucking flow of Twitter, like a rat on cheese, man. Me too. I'm just like bulge my eyes bulging for no reason. Just like, I went to, you know, went to the gym today, again, trying to resurrect my health. Like, you know, like the zombie is trying to clamber out of the fucking grave made out

of cake. You know, when you're like, God, I'm going to go back to the gym, but even to the gym, I'm, you know, what, you know, it's been getting me back on the treadmill as fucking the news because I don't have cable. So like, I'm like, God, I want to go watch these idiots about the election. But the, the, the, even there, I'm still fucking staring at my phone. I know, man. That's why that's, I'm not saying it because I mastered this in any way, shape, or form.

I just started like three weeks ago and I'm seeing, and I suck at it because I say twice a day and that's been five times or something. But it's not this 24 seven that if I'm awake every other second, I'm distracted, I'm turned, I keep doing this shit because I realize I wasted months. Even when I don't think I do, when I'm managing my time well, I'm really not. Right. I'm getting constantly distracted by all this shit. And you know, for every good thing that come out of it, there are about hours that go by

with just me having wasted time that I could have used in something else. Can you name a good thing that's come out of it? I mean, occasionally, like since I see that then I can use either in podcast or writing or something like, Oh, that's an awesome story. I found out about it or something like that, you know, or occasionally you get into conversation with people, maybe not posting, but you message each other where you only think of them because you see them on Facebook type of thing. And then you're like, Oh, fuck, this is an awesome person.

Why didn't I touch base and you do that? So a little that's good is there. But then there's this, you know, the wake up call was actually from my daughter because it was like maybe three weeks ago or so when she was talking and she was talking about how she was looking forward to her grandpa visiting because she said, Oh, she's he's the only one who plays with me. And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? I play with you all the time.

And she's like, Yeah, you do, but you're also looking at your computer too. And you're playing with me. And then you look at your computer and you're playing with me. And I'm like, I am an asshole. And you're right. You know, you're completely right. But he was a perfect blow because he woke me up to the realization of, Oh, shit. She's completely right.

One hundred percent. And I'm not giving my attention to one thing at a time ever. I'm constantly doing six things at once. And it's bullshit because I'm not really any more productive or especially fucking checking Facebook. That's not exactly helping me. So why the fuck don't I just turn it off? Yeah, check it later in three hours.

But for the time being, I'm just gonna play with my damn kid. And that's it. Nothing else. When you turn your attention away from technology and focus on the natural world, how do you feel? I think there's something really relaxing about it because the pace is low down. Yeah. There isn't this constant, oh, this new article popped up or there's, you have a new notification

message, things, there's all this shit popping up, like blinking lights go off everywhere. Suddenly everything is like, ah, okay, we're here. There's a sky above me. There's an earth below me. You feel things more. You start in a way. It's like everything they say about mindfulness happens kind of naturally to some degree. Once you slow down this constant flow of external shit, then there's also the internal one that

you could still be running a train of thoughts in your head. Yeah. That's another layer. You're feeding the beast with this constant external stimuli at least. Now, this makes me think I was out in the desert at this wonderful party hanging out with some friends and one of them said something to me. I don't know if he knew how profound it was, but he does kind of remind me of like a, he lives in the desert.

He reminds me of a, like a, like getting to really hang out with a true Zen monk. I don't think he knows that he's like putting out such powerful info. Maybe he does. I don't know. But he was talking to me about the fear of boredom and how, and I can't remember the exact way you put it, but it was along the lines of, you know, think about that. Think about your fear of boredom and how we're afraid of not doing anything. That has stuck with me.

My mind has just been gnawing on it and thinking and turning it over and over and over, thinking about that. And when I put the phone down and I'm, you know, I don't have a genius daughter, but even with my dogs, I've thought, God, half the time I'm playing with the dogs, I'm looking at my phone, I'm petting them while I, so I put the phone down and I just start giving them attention and I'm petting them. They can tell, man, the difference, but then as it's happening, I, I start feeling a little bored.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, this is cool and everything, but what's going on on the phone? What's on Twitter? What's on CNN? What's on treasure port? What's on Huffington? What's on New York Times? It's hard.

It is. That's why to me, in fact, my goal of twice a day is regularly broken. I mean, I never live up to it. But even if I regularly break it, it's still way better than the 24-7 I was doing before. So even if I end up going back there six, seven times in a day, it's way better than this constant fucking, I'm here, but I'm not here. I'm here, but I'm not here. That happens when I keep looking at it back and forth.

So I think, and ultimately I feel better. You know, there's an element there where I, I feel more, a little more relaxed. I feel a little, and the bottom thing to me is you can give, you don't have to stay there petting your dog for 30 hours. You know, he's like, I'm going to really fully be here. And if it's five minutes and then I feel like I need to do something else, that's fine. I had five good minutes. Now let's see what I want to do next.

You know, I, the other day went out to the hammock, lay in the hammock, I'm looking up the trees and I've been thinking about only because I read it in this very sinister book that I ordered, which is an occult book, a German occult book, annotated by guess who Hitler. Oh Jesus. So they found in Hitler's library, this book of the occult that, and this all, this all started as a terrible rabbit hole. I went down about occultism in the Nazis.

And then you, you go down that rabbit hole, that's a deep rabbit hole. You find out about the organization Thule. And then you find out about, you know, the fact that Hitler was like fascinated with the occult. We know it from Indiana Jones, but I don't think people realize how, how deep the, the occult roots of the Nazi party are. So I find out, oh, there's a book that they found in Adolf Hitler's private library. An occult book.

It's called magic history, theory and practice. And he underlined through the whole fucking thing. So in this book, they've put in bold everything Hitler underlined. It's awesome because the book has some pretty good information, but you see what a dick Hitler is by what he decided to underline. But anyway, in this book, it talks about the concept of where do you stop and where does the world start? And of course the truth is there's no place that you stop and there's no place the world

starts. And if there is a place, it's a very fuzzy border that just is like not your skin, but that's what we think of as like our skin. So anyway, laying in the hammock, contemplating this idea of like, where do I stop? And where does the rest of this start entering into that expansive state of like just like at the precipice of a very expansive moment. And then it's like, God, fuck this. I'm not going to fucking sit in the hammock all day.

I got to do something. And it feels decadent to not do anything. It feels hedonistic to not do anything. It feels irresponsible to not do anything. It feels lazy to not do anything. It feels blasphemous, wrong. It feels this to me is sick when you're looking up at a tree, the source of oxygen on the planet. And that mother, I mean, I don't know.

Maybe trees are also like, I got to make more fucking branches, man. I can't just sit here and not grow. I got to get more pine needles out of me. But I don't think so. Right. So when you gaze on a tree supplying life to the planet through what appears, I'm not saying trees aren't in action. There's a beautiful chemical dance happening within them.

But you know what I'm saying though, right? Yeah. Behold the lilies of the field. They toil, nor do they, whatever Jesus said. Yep, yep, yep. So, Danielli, what the fuck, man? What the fuck is correct? We act for the sake of scratching some sick infected itch that comes from a wound administered to us

through a lifetime of living in a society where our identities are based on our work, or do we rebel against it, move up to Big Bear, lay in the hammock, sit around and do nothing, go to the desert, you know, and just sit and stare at the sand. In perfect Taoist fashion, I think it's always both. Anytime you are in front of a binary choice, it's never these or that. There's these and that, the best of both sides. Because the reality is that, yeah, the scenario you paint of the overactivity that I can't fucking stand still because I constantly need to do, do, do, that is sick.

And it's, and again, I do the exact same thing. So I know it to a T, right? Because I'm running, I'm with you 100% on that. I was listening the other day to a podcast with Joe Rogan, and he was talking, he was kind of opening up about more personal stuff than usual. And he was talking about how he's constantly doing shit. If he's not running one thing, he has to do another. So I think there's something good about it.

And I don't mean just in terms of what you produce, in terms even of like, it's awful to be there and not appreciate anything because you are bored and you're looking for some, it's an awful feeling. So the sense that you are excited enough about life where you always have something that you want to go to. There's something very healthy about that up to a point. But when you take it, when it becomes a mania, when it becomes that you can't stand still, that is not just, oh, if I have nothing to do, I have plenty of choices because there are 10,000 things that catch my interest.

I have to chase these 10,000 things or otherwise I feel incomplete or wrong or a failure or whatever the fuck. That's become the obsession of that. So I'm a big fan of take your fucking time, relax, stay at the dem tree. And when you want to, no, but now I should, no, no fucking should, just shut up for an hour. I'm not asking for the moon, just one hour, just relax, go for a walk, do something. And that cool it, if it makes you feel better, cool it, mental health practice where you're just, I'm not doing anything. No, no, you are working on your mental health. You can feel good about that, you know, you can say, I put an hour in mental health training.

So then you have a justification for it. But really, that's what it does because it clearly off so much shit. It ultimately really make you enjoy stuff more when you actually are involved in it because you are not involved in it out of compulsion. You are involved in it because you want it because suddenly you are really physically, mentally, spiritually there and you want to be in that moment. And then, you know, we need both. We need the action because without it, you know, you can be, it becomes too easy to be all the way stores and where the reality become a good excuse to be in a fuck up who does nothing all day. But at the same time, you also, you know, really, there's a benefit in both and there's obsession in both. I want to talk about the fuck up who's not doing anything all day.

By all means. So, okay. Now, I get the hour on the hammock and nature walk. But I can remember listening to like Alan Watts give a lecture on Zen monks. And he's like, these are crazy people. Like they're these are like, this is not an hour. This is like, okay, so if you let's imagine that you made the decision that you're going to just sit on the couch all day. You put the phone away.

You just sit there. You're doing nothing. Just sitting on the couch. Your family and friends would get worried. They would get worried about you. Of course. Like around hour five, they'd be like, Hey, man, what is good? What are you doing?

Yeah, of course. What are you doing? Yeah. If you put on robes. Yeah, then it's cool. Then it's spiritual practice, right? Yeah. What the fuck?

Right. You know, and it's amazing. Yeah. If you put on robes and you spend your entire life mostly sitting, doing nothing. People are like, that is a cool motherfucker. Did you hear about Leonard Cohen? He went up to the mountain and became a Zen monk and did nothing. Did you hear about Lenny Cohen?

What a loser. He sits on his fucking couch and does nothing. What do you mean? He watches TV right now. He just sits there. Does nothing. It's rice every eight hours or whatever. Right.

Do you know what I mean? Totally. Culturally, if you put on the right outfit, doing nothing is impressive. Yep. So I wonder if part of the trick of the mind is to make you think that by sitting for an hour and doing nothing, you have fulfilled a spiritual obligation. Right. When in fact, maybe doing nothing isn't an excuse for laziness.

Maybe it's, that is the, you know what I'm saying, man, it's like there could be a party happening that we're not walking in the door of. No, and I agree. And I think that's, nobody can say it about somebody else that way. It's like, you know it. Are you insanely happy doing what you do? Sitting at the wall all day and you tell me that, yes, I'm, I could not be happier than who the fuck am I to tell you otherwise?

You know, right? It's ultimately everybody's different. Everybody can tap into different things. So I can say, oh shit, I tried after two hours. I wanted to shoot myself. It's not really working for me that well. And I tried another time and I got the same result and another time. So I really don't get what you see in this.

I don't know what you get out of it. But if you get out of it, good for you. Right. I mean, I know, I know, man. I like the, do you ever suspect that you might just be having a seizure that you call your life that like you're like somebody who is just having a kind of involuntary series of muscle spasms and somewhere along the way. You're like, oh, I'm, I'm the one doing this.

I'm making these decisions. When really you've just the thing you call your career is just the clittering of your, the clattering of your foot on the fucking floor as you go through a lifelong seizure of action that you're pretending that you are in control of. Great. Now I have, I just needed an extra existential anxiety. I think I just got a new one. Yes.

There's a speaking of going back to the idea of harvesting. Twitter for good things. I follow an account on Twitter and it's a Zen account. And the guy tweets some great quotes from famous Zen masters. I get mad at him because he quotes, he will tweet from time to time. How you can't, something along the lines of how intoxication and Buddhism don't mix. He, and that always upsets me, but I don't care. But he tweeted a quote from a Zen master saying, and I want to know what you think about this.

If you truly look into yourself underneath the emotions underneath the actions underneath the thoughts, you will find that there is nothing there. What do you think of that? That's the thing with a lot of, I mean, I'm obviously like you. I'm very intrigued with Zen Taoism. A lot of Eastern thinking is something that clicks with me in a lot of ways. And at the same time, some of these escape me. And I'm not saying escape me because it's bullshit.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I'm not sure. There are some elements where I feel the direction where Zen is going. I find it. It goes from being this really intriguing different way of looking at the world. That adds something to my life to being kind of complete bullshit from my way of seeing. And again, maybe it's because I'm in, maybe it's me.

See if it is bullshit. Some of it to me strikes me. Like I was having a conversation and I do it with super nice guy, right? Very nice person. I like him as a person. The vibe was great. Zen monk. And he said something along the lines.

You know, my family, and he was talking about his wife and daughter, they are no more real than the paper illusion. That's the money in my, in my pockets. And I was like, this is the moment where if I was playing Zen master, I would slap you really hard. No, no, that's the moment where if you were playing Zen master, you slap his wife really hard. Right.

Exactly. See what he does. I have a feeling he's not going to like be like, Oh, you just slapped an illusion. It's an illusion that doesn't. Yeah. That's where to me is like we're taking it too far. You know, we're going from a, and again, maybe some of it may be limitations of my understanding or some of it may be that there's nothing to understand.

And there's some of it is just full of shit. But, but really though, I want to know under your emotions. Yeah. So do you have a primary emotional state throughout the day? Or do your emotions fluctuate and fluctuate a lot. And so they fluctuate from in some spectrum of what anxiety and then pleasure or, you know, so it's a pendulum of like, like a kind of weather systems of emotion. Yeah.

Okay. So underneath that emotion, what is there? That's a good one. I had an interesting one on that because a few days ago, I never take anything, right? Medicine. I mean, I took some fucking Benadryl because I had some allergies. Yeah. And I strongly suggest for people who have a delicate system, the psychedelic benefits

of Benadryl, because I was in this state that was like taking is the way people describe anti-depressants. It's like, I felt nothing. Yeah. There was this dead quiet inside of me. I had no emotions to speak of. Yeah. And I was going through my day and I was like, huh, look at that.

It didn't even bother me. There was no, and it was a strange feeling to be me without these waves of emotions sweeping through me back and forth. I couldn't quite understand, you know, what is, is there something? Am I really just the product of all these waves of emotion that sweep through me day and day out? Or is there something else that's sent outside of them? I often feel both ways at the same time, which obviously is impossible because it's a contradiction.

It's either one or the other, at least according to the logical mind. I don't think it's, yeah. But the, but that's the feeling, you know, there are times where I'm like, this is as real as it gets. This is, these emotions are the most real thing on earth. And other moments where I feel like this is a game that's being played, but there's something else to me that exists outside of this little, and I don't know how to reconcile it because they're obviously completely different.

I don't even can call them feelings, understandings, whatever they are, but they are both equally strong. Yeah. So it's confusing. Well, it is. And, and, and you sort of, I keep thinking alike, God, a gas giant, which is the planet we can't see through the cloud layer. Is that Saturn or is it Jupiter?

Or is it both? Uh, the one with the hexagonal, beautiful hexa, it's, I think it's, I believe it's Saturn. It's got that hexagon at the top from the weather systems. It's got this amazing spinning like hexagon at the top. It's trippy. It's a trippy planet. The one with a ring. Yeah.

Yeah. But this is a, we can't see through the cloud layer. So I don't know what's down there, but in the same way, it feels like the human psyche is this gas giant where on the exterior we have these swirling systems of emotional energy. And then we get so blinded by that that you can't see what's underneath that layer. And then when you do see what's underneath the layer, it's so perplexing because there's nothing there. And then you think, oh, fuck, I'm a gobs stopper, but I'm a, I'm a shell.

I'm a shell of emotions that has within it a nothingness. And not only am I a shell of emotions as within a kind of nothingness, but then external internally around me is an infinite universe, which has mostly nothingness inside of it. And so then it becomes a really curious predicament that you get in there because you think, if I am this binary system of nothingness and somethingness, who do I decide to be? Do I react from the nothing or do I react from the something? Well, if both are there, you have a choice, which is interesting, because you can choose to go one way or another.

And that in itself would be a, that would add, because otherwise you would be almost a deterministic model, right? Use the fucking decided, right? Is there something that's free will that exists outside of this game or right? No, of course, and it's, I think it was Tom Robbins who said that the nature of reality is just completely paradoxical. Like if you can't appreciate paradox, you really didn't understand anything about the way the universe work, because everything around of his paradoxical, many times, such

as in discussing these, I would have to come to the conclusion that them right, it's paradoxical. It's more often than not, even in front of two statements that seem mutually contradictory, there's these and that, and they are both true, and they can't be because the logical mind tells us only they are opposite who only one can be truly can't both be true at the same time. And somehow more often than not, I run into the feeling that way, I feel this very strongly and I also feel the opposite very strongly. What the hell do I make of that mystery of living in this flesh body?

Is it a mystery? I mean, this is when this is, I'm sorry, I've said this on the podcast a few times, because it really was like chug him Trump, but Trump, but when I read this thing, he is like he gave me he's he was fucking smacking me in the face, because he said, no, no, no, we don't stop at mystery. We don't say, oh, it's a mystery. Done. Right.

We say, we go deeper, because it's like, all right, okay, this is a mystery, because I've he says, what he said is something along the lines of that just is putting your insanity on an altar and lighting candles in front of sure. So no, let's say it's not a mystery. I want to know what I am. But my exploration into that inevitably comes to a point that is basically a void. And yet when I'm angry, I'll slam a fucking door. But when I'm the void, I don't slam doors.

You know what I mean? Like that when I'm the nothingness thing, and I come into contact with just about anything at all, it doesn't really seem to have much of an impact. And then I start thinking, am I a fucking sociopath? That's the other. And I think that's also where the difference between, I think it was Joseph Campbell, this is another beautiful one that he argued that the schizophrenic drowns in the same ocean in which the mystic swims.

I think there's something to that because the experience is not that different, except that one is fucked up by it and one is happy about it. And I think that's the fundamental issue is, does your understanding of reality lead to a state that makes you enjoy life or does it throw you in this existential crisis of fucking nothing is real nihilism feeling like crap and whatever? You know what I mean? It's like, because that to me is the only thing that there's going back to the election and since that we have power on, that's probably the only thing that we have a tiny degree of

power on is figuring out which way we stir the sheep. Is it going to lead to a direction where you're ultimately satisfied with this experience that maybe illusion, maybe reality, maybe whatever the fuck it is. But does it leave you with a feeling of satisfaction and enjoyment? Does it leave you with a feeling of that to me is real? That interests me. Well, okay, let's talk about the feeling of satisfaction and enjoyment. So the, which is one, you know, the, if there were like a primary feeling that we're all

supposed to want, satisfaction and enjoyment, that's it. Books on happiness everywhere you look, fucking can't turn a corner without finding some book laying around on how to be happy. So is it a bad trip or is it the best trip? Well, that's again, that gets back to the idea of like, you know, is it, you know, is it drowned or swim, you, I mean, look, you get to pick, but I don't know, man, I, you know, I keep a, it's like this thing that you discover and then once you've discovered it, you can't really undiscover it and, and, and, and, and so you're just sort of faced

with like, well, at some point I have to either pretend to be my emotional states and like, you know, identify with that as myself or what becomes some kind of like universal blankness that has within it temporary disruptions that we call emotions that don't ever last and that inevitably change and return to some other emotion. I think it's the former for me. I tend to, regardless of whether it's an illusion or not, I feel like this is where I'm at. I'm in this state right now, which is a highly emotional one with my sense of personal identity

as Daniela Bollelli being X amount of years having lived in this and that place. It could be some cosmic illusion. It could be the 14 year old God out there was playing a video game of being me. It could be all of those things. And I actually would put my money that there's a very decent chance that it may be something like that going on. And at the same time, here I am right now. So why don't I just play the game at the best of my abilities and let's just go through

the ride and worry about the cosmic significance of it all once I actually have the instruments to look at the cosmic significance of it all, which I don't feel I gather right now. Like I feel I do a lot of mind bending exercises, which ultimately lead me still to the place where I started. And so I'm like, okay, fuck it, let's just go like it could very well be all illusion. It could all be we live in the matrix. It could all be. And at the same time, this is the only like the way I'm going to step out of these doors.

The only thing I have power on is how do I choose to be if I do have any choice? How can I, how can I step out in the way that will feel the best possible here and now? It's very basic. It's very primal. That way. But at the same time, it's the only thing that I feel I have any control over. I mean, you still have to act. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, it doesn't matter if you think you're a big ball of fucking infinite nothingness or like just made up of like emotions or what thoughts or whatever. You still have to act. There's no way to not act. Even when you're, you know, staying still, it's a form of do like you said, you're this a, yeah. But you know, again, I'm not, I don't really like the problem is once you've like come into the Benadryl Zen state, I just don't understand.

Even if you do like get lucky enough to drift into a dream state of selfness, you always know like, all right, you know, I'm still like, I'm saying I'm Duncan Trussell right now, but the very act of saying I'm Duncan Trussell is the negation of Duncan Trussell because the thing announcing itself as Duncan Trussell doesn't have a name. So it's like, it's not even that much of a, I mean, it's, I mean, you know, I mean, you get to a point where like, well, I guess I'll just fucking walk around like this Duncan Trussell fellow. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, the Hindu metaphor about the universe as play, right?

As God's play that you are, you, it's really all this one entity that take 10,000 shapes, 10,000 different identities or forget millions of identities and has to forget that you're really are this God that created the entire game. Otherwise the game is not fun anymore. And you, and so in that sense is if you are an actor on a stage, you cannot in the middle of the act think like, wait, I'm not really this character I'm playing. I'm actually Mr. So-and-So Samuel, you fuck up the play, you know, it's not going to work as well.

It's going to. Sure. So to me is like. That's a play. Right. And as life, that may be what's going on. Maybe the healthiest thing I can do is just immerse myself in the role and really play to the fullest.

Yeah. But what if some other actors in the play keep coming up to you and they're like, hey, man, we figured out this thing's a fucking play, you know, and then you're like, well, who's doing the right, you know, like, well, maybe part of the play is, is like. The discovery of. Yeah. And I think that's how it goes back to, do you feel like you want to discover it or do you feel like you want to keep playing the game too late?

Right. It's like, you know, you're like, maybe. Oh, no. I'm a master of self-denial. Don't worry. It's like, look, I never heard it. That information just disappeared. It's like, you know, we're at a party and like we took some fantastic psychedelic and this

very special psychedelic where you put these like little finger puppets on your hand and like you stare at the finger puppets and these finger puppets, you get so high, you start thinking that the finger puppets are you and then as people, then someone, some asshole is like, Hey guys, I think we're staring at finger puppets here. I don't think it's really us. No, trust me, I have, I grew up as an only child. Yeah. I grew up with a mountain of time on my own where the only games that would ever happen

were the games that I play on my own and a lot of games, they require more than one person. Yeah. And so I would play all of the roles and I would be obviously unconscious that it's all me, but in order for the game to feel damn good, to feel satisfying, to feel I have to forget it. And I became pretty fucking good at it where I can play the game and I can play the asshole who's fighting me, the me I like versus the me I don't like. It's all me, really.

But I like getting into those roles, the only way that I would not be bored to that would be if I really got into it, like they had to become real to me. And of course there's that layer of consciousness, like I know I'm fucking playing a game on my own and it's just me in a room, but at the same time is I can somehow I could manage to go blip, make that information disappear out of my brain so that I could really enjoy the game to the fullest. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it seems like enjoying the game to the fullest. It would be understanding that you're actually, I mean, I don't know what enjoying the I guess enjoying the game to the fullest is going to vary from person to person. And certainly there's, I mean, I know Ram Dass talks about if you're fucking playing Monopoly, don't act like it's a goddamn game. If you and me sit down to play Monopoly, I want you to be a dick. Yeah. I don't want you to be like, I don't know, let's just have a nice game Monopoly.

That's what Ram Dass says, yet simultaneously on another level, we're just friends moving pieces around on a board doing something that doesn't really mean anything at all. Of course. And you get to pick what level you're going to be at. Exactly. But again, right there, who picks right, of course, I think I'm, I'm playing Monopoly too much as the, no, be the asshole, come on, let's play that way for me to snap out of it and get to that level.

Are you winning? All the time. We want you to win. Yes. Yeah. You know, as a matter of fact, when you play on your own by yourself, it's surprising how many times you managed to win. It's, it's like hilarious if you lose.

Yeah. When you, when you, oh, and the best part is when you cheat at the game that you're playing on your own, because you know, some of it goes up to chances and you're playing and suddenly like you score when you're playing the bad guy and you didn't really mean to. And suddenly when you take the shot as the good guy, you fuck up and so you have to cheat the game in order. So to make the one that you like, it's pretty intriguing. I'm cheating on myself with myself.

Exactly. Exactly. No, that is the funny thing. The mind does though, because the moment you start having a, even the vaguest romance with nothingness, the mind will act like it's being cheated on. It's like, don't talk to that. I mean, in fact, think masturbation. Yeah.

From a purely mechanical standpoint, it's bullshit. For it to be good, you have to get lost in this fantasy and suddenly it's not bullshit at all. It's fucking amazing. And it's, you have this all and it really boils down to fantasy, to imagination, to all of that. And that's what makes it, quote unquote, real. Now it's not anymore real, you know, the mechanical act is the exact same, but the state it creates

when you get lost in a fantasy versus where you're there, it's me rubbing myself while staring at the wall. It's a very different kind of feeling. Depends on how kinky you are. I mean, like you can definitely get to a point where like that in it, you're just like such a freak. You're like, just this is fucking freaky. Yeah.

I did not get to that point. I'm afraid. What am I? Some fucking hairy monkey to sit there rubbing its goddamn pleasure appended. That somehow does not lead to orgasms for me. It just doesn't do it again, but really though, yeah, I mean, like if you want to take it to the most carnal state and you're jerking yourself off, you're like, who's jerking you off?

Right. Right. What is like, it's really if you are this, I actually, and I know you probably have to go. It's a little bit, but when you look at it from the perspective of like, okay, I know that I am not truly my body in the sense that I know that I'm not my identity. I know this is just a, a series of like feelings that have been chained together by my, I guess, I don't know, what is it responsible for short term memory going in the long term memory,

but whatever that is, the amygdala, I don't remember, but whatever the fuck that is. I know that like, really, this is just a, so when you're jerking off from the Zen perspective and you realize you're the universe rubbing your penis, the, the, the entirety of the universe, the full extent of all things, whatever that is, has rippled in your direction in a way that has made your hand move upon your genitals, genitals and to make you come. That's pretty hot, man. That's pretty sexy to think a butterfly flapped its wings somewhere in Hawaii and that created a chain reaction that ended up with you jerking off.

Thank you to that Hawaiian butterfly. Yeah. I mean, it really boils down to does that lead you to having an awesome orgasm or not? Because that's where there's a qualitative difference in that. How you get to it vary from person to person, but what doesn't vary, what to me feels pretty demobjective is that end result. Is that experience, does it lead to this just pure ecstasy where you're like, the universe is a fucking awesome place and I don't want to be anywhere but here and now, or does it

not lead to that experience because that's fucking different. An ecstatic state. Yeah. The other thing that Terrence McKinnon said is that ecstasy encompasses all emotional states. Even the existential horror, if I finally do manage to get my brain, you know where you throw a bouncy ball as hard as you can on the floor with a low ceiling or you throw it under a table and the bouncy ball starts bouncing back and forth really fast and makes this wonderful like that kind of jittery like thing that happens when something is out

of balance or that if I, when I get myself into that state where I have crucified myself between absolute nothingness and somethingness and it creates this horror, I find that to be quite pleasurable. Really? Absolutely. It's ecstatic. Look at that feeling of like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, I'm nothing in something, I'm nothing in anything, I'm in something, I'm in something, I'm nothing.

That is fucking so... That to you feels good. It's fun. Really? It's, yeah man, that's a really fun feel, like that feeling of like how often do you get to feel that kind of weird thing, it's like a kind of deja vu mixed in with, maybe it's what Sartre was called, nausea or whatever, it's a kind of vertigo. Yeah.

No man, I think there's something even in that, I am, I'm not positive because I, those moments have become a little less than they used to be, but when they do happen, I mean I'll have to, the next time it happens, I'll really have to like see what I think, but I'm, I think that that feeling is actually secretly really good. Really? Huh. I never felt that then, because I mean, you described the situation and I think I know what you're talking about, but that to me, nothing about it feels even remotely good,

so I'm like, maybe I don't know what you're talking about. What does it feel like? To me, it's a feeling of, you are an astronaut who got cut from the spaceship and you are floating in this endless space and there's nothing that you can, that recognizable that you can go back to feeling like, and I'm not a big fan of that feeling. It's not, yeah, I mean, I know you mean that it is a, it is a really like, it is a crazy feeling, but even the feeling, I mean, again, I love that because here's the thing, planet feeling.

This is the planet that many people exist on. The gravitational field of planet feeling is as strong as your strongest emotion and so there you are. Your identity has been trapped in the gravity well of this planet and then something can happen sometimes where you just start floating away and you realize, oh, wow, that's not me at all. I'm looking down at a planet that I used to live on, but that's not me and the further way you get from it, the less important it becomes.

And you know, it's like, that was just a little thing the universe did. Oh my God, I'm going to quote the Grateful Dead. It's just a box of rain. Great song, by the way. Great song. Those of you guys who have never listened to it, by all means, please check it out. Grateful Dead box of rain. And I think it kind of does our conversation.

The answer to the problem is in the lyrics of that song because they say, believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. That's perfect. I think that has been written, it has specifically been written for us to quote right now as the perfect jewel that come at the end of it all. I don't think the Grateful Dead song even existed until we had this conversation. And now there's a whole pass to it because it's too good. That's perfect.

Mr. Bilelli, tell them where they can find you, your beautiful podcast. Unless the gods of Google hate you. My guess is that if you type my name in Google, they will, the Oracle will reply and they will tell you all about, you know, history on fire podcast, drunken Taoist, anything else I do, it's probably out there somewhere on the net. So just check out Duncan's episode's note for how to spell my name and that should be your answer to everything. And the links will be at DuncanTrussell.com.

Thank you so much for humoring me in this very strange conversation that we had because I fucking love it, man. And it like, it really is a place that I am sort of confused right now. So I thought I had existential issues. You take it to a whole other level. I'm a white belt in existential issues compared to your mastery. Yay! Okay, man.

I love you. Thank you. Much love. That was Danielli Bilelli, everybody. Links to find Danielli are either quickly found through a Google search or in the comment section of this episode. The clip you listened to in the beginning, that was from Ram Dass. The audio book is called Experiments in Truth.

If you want to find out more about Ram Dass, you can go to ramdass.org. Much thanks to meundies for sponsoring this episode. If you go to meundies.com forward slash Duncan, you're going to get 20% off a pair of the softest underwear this side of the moon. I'll see you guys soon. And remember, don't be afraid, everything's going to be fine. Hare Krishna! I'll see you soon.

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