Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Dave Smith

Episode Date: March 21, 2017

Libertarian comedian Dave Smith joins the DTFH and we talk about the libertarianism and the way the state has wormed it's way into nearly every aspect of our lives.

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Go to Squarespace.com and use offer code DUNCAN to get 10% off a brand new website. Get your adrenal glands ready because I'm about to stomp on them. It's time to go! Today on the Duncan Trussell Family Hour Podcast we will be speaking in a strange rhythmic way while playing dramatic soundbeds underneath our voice in an attempt to illustrate just how powerful the brainwashing mechanisms of corporate media actually are. Imagine if you had just slurped back three Xanax and a Vicodin and were listening to this in your arm chair at the age of 80.

You would have no way to resist whatever was about to be vomited into your poor withered alcohol shriveled brain. Let's get going with the podcast starting now! Man that shit is intense. Fox News soundbeds are crazy. I don't know if you've ever gone through YouTube and just looked at the different jingles for the news but wow they really think they're important with soundbeds like that. Like whatever the fuck they're saying if you're going to play a soundbed like that you better

be revealing some heavy duty shit man. It can't just be some normal bullshit about the healthcare. You better be revealing some kind of incoming UFO invasion if you're playing that kind of music. Just listen to this shit. Listen to what they're doing to manipulate us into thinking that what they're saying is important. Here's some more news soundbeds.

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Oh god that's the sound every time Anderson Cooper ejaculates that's the sound it makes. That's heavy duty man. That is some serious fucking shit. That is a serious blast there. You gotta to play that in front of your programming you think you're so fucking important. It's kind of like a western theme but they all have the same kind of terrible orc drum slave drum beat to it. Let's listen to one more.

It's like they've got dudes with those leather X's on their chests beating giant drums in the BBC office. That's what they should have to do. If they're gonna play music like that they should have a live band playing that shit. A live band of people in leather suits and gimp masks beating cow hide drums and throwing stars at bells. Friends we truly have a spectacular DTFH coming your way right after this break. According to a recent study by the Heimler James Institute the number one thing that

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We also have a shop located at DuncanTrestle.com if you want to get some t-shirts posters or stickers they are all there alright friends that's it let's do this podcast today's guest is a brilliant comedian he's also a libertarian he's got he's on two fantastic podcasts his own podcast called part of the problem and the much beloved and reviled Legion of Skanks podcast you might have seen him on red eye on Fox News with a Greg Gutfeld show I really enjoyed this conversation he is a super smart guy and I'm really glad we got a chance to talk so everybody please welcome to the DuncanTrestle family our podcast Dave Smith sure Dave welcome to the DuncanTrestle family our podcast thanks for coming over man thanks

so much for having me so it's pretty intense you grew up in this neighborhood I so randomly grew up on this block I lived I went I lived when I went to high school like three doors over and where you're recording how many years I think I lived there from like seventh to 12th grade a good a good long stretch on this block I consider that my childhood yeah that's when that's the formative years yeah for sure it's the ones you really look back on yeah the ones that still it's the ones that still buggy the most about a girl cheating on you the ones you still jerk off to crazy experiences then crazy experiences really grow oh god the first time you had sex yep all here on this block really on this block on this very block in your

parents home yeah they weren't there they were gone god man you know I've got I still remember one of my like dark memories and I wonder about it all the time like how differently my life would have gone there was a cheerleader at the school that I went to and I don't know why but one Sunday she came over man and she was like we went upstairs my parents were there and she lay in my bed and was like Duncan come lay here I remember this it's like the beginning of the ultimate fantasy mm-hmm kind of a crush on her and my mom was downstairs she's like Duncan Duncan you have chores to do and so she had to leave like and so like in that like it's brutal never hated your mom so much I always think about it like if I had had sex with the cheerleader that day

and experienced that you know like a fulfillment of a fantasy the realization that things can go right in the universe at that young and age that there are miracles well even I think right I mean I'm I don't really understand it but right like the butterfly effect and things like that wouldn't kind of back up the idea that if something that drastically changed your life would be drastically different right I mean who knows for better or worse but it would probably be drastically worse worse I think it'd be worse I think that like I wouldn't instead of having like more of an underdog mentality you would be like holy fuck if I could do this yeah I could I don't why not get into the stock market Duncan Trussell that asshole senator who champions the war on drugs I hate that

guy the worst yeah it's yeah well yeah man I you know for some reason it was kind of caught me off guard I had Abbey Martin on the podcast and you know some people liked it some people were outraged but the outraged people wanted you to come on the podcast is some kind of palate cleanser and I'm sure the other people who loved it will be outraged that I'm here already all right and to me that's a good sign that there's already outrage where already some snark someone snarked me on Twitter like god my one of my least favorite kinds of fucking a sigh tweet where they say whatever they're gonna do and then the right sigh after it like the most condescending thing we're like really you're gonna have another libertarian on the podcast I love you Duncan but sigh yeah that's

um I feel that we uh we libertarians or just people who support free markets at all I feel like get that a lot very like a dismissed as if uh I don't know like this is so ridiculous that it doesn't like my position is so crazy because I'm like anti-war pro-free market that uh it doesn't even need to be refuted it's just like oh get out of here yeah this is crazy and I don't know I'm like I try to and I know that you know some people are like this some people aren't but I try like I was a left-wing guy and I'm now a libertarian anarchist like I have an open mind about that I can I'm capable of changing my mind if you've got a great point that I haven't like thought of I'll take it but you you understand where and this is true for any perspective right like this is what

you try to tell the anti-milo people if your attitude to someone is like I'm just gonna dismiss what you say I don't even have to refute you or I don't want you on the show I want you silent like you shouldn't even be there you're just empowering that person like that just kind of convinces me I'm right okay well but before we get into that sure let's get into the terms because honestly I'm kind of foggy on both my dad is a libertarian right that's still I'm still a little fought and some of my friends are libertarians but I'm foggy on the term and I'm probably a different type of libertarian than a lot of other because there are differences so for me personally like I I like the word libertarian I'm like an anarchist libertarian if anyone wants to like where I got to that

conclusion I was very influenced by uh like Ron Paul Murray Rothbard Tom Woods a lot of people like the Mises Institute just for if anyone wants to look further into it okay but we're basically the philosophy centers around the non-aggression principle which is basically the idea that at you it is morally wrong to initiate violence against peaceful people so violence is something that should be uh is morally used in self-defense you own yourself you own your body you you own the fruits of your labor things like that but uh the idea that you shouldn't initiate force against peaceful people and most people on the surface will kind of agree with that I mean it's a fairly however uh what I think libertarian anarchists do is actually take that to its logical

conclusion which is basically ends up being rejecting government which in it in it's the state I would say which in itself is an institution that is basically funded uh on the premise of hey you fund us or you go to fucking jail this is how we raise our money okay you fund us or you go to jail right and I I just take the radical position that we don't need to run civilization that way you're talking about the the the force field like I think of it as the force field which is when there's a certain if you do a certain thing there's like triggers and if you do a certain thing in the society the guys in the Darth Vader outfit show up so and and we don't really it's always there like everything with the government everything with the state is there's always this

loose implication of like we'll fucking throw you in jail it might be like behind the scenes a little bit it's like oh you gotta find you know like what happens if you don't pay that fine eventually it gets bigger it gets bigger and then they'll throw you in jail and you know that's right yeah okay so why then do people take issue with anything you just said I guess it's the anarchist part it's we we don't believe it's it is it that okay okay so everything you just said to me makes perfect sense except we've got a lot of people man we've got a lot of people and there has to be some way to create the rhythm of sissa we need we need to stop if we have cars we need traffic lights sure if we have you know we need flight patterns we need all the things that make an infrastructure

happen yes and and it's very hard to say what exactly is the right amount of roads or too many roads are not enough I mean like you know there's a you know certainly when you have a government it works in a very different way I just think that ebb and flow will work better under a market I think it does demonstrably always but so you may have the federal government come in and say we're gonna we're gonna give you free highways which are you know basically free because they were all deficit financed you know so we're gonna have these interstate highway program but then you have urban sprawl and pollution and all these other problems I mean maybe maybe that wasn't the right move to have that you know you don't actually know what the right move is I would and I don't

want to ramble too much but there's this really great essay that Milton Friedman wrote and lots of different free market people have used this in different examples but I believe it's called my pencil and basically he talks he just talks about a pencil and I thought this was so trippy and interesting but he goes if you take one pencil there is no human being who's ever existed who has the knowledge to make this happen no not even close there hasn't even been a hundred like if you actually take the knowledge that has to go into making this pencil I mean if I just left you in the woods and was like make a pencil yeah how first off and he goes through it he's like okay so this tip is is graphite but not lead they think it's lead but it's graphite this comes from the

ground in order for that you need metal machines in order for this you need you need trucks in order for a truck you need a tire with rubber there are like all of these different amounts of knowledge and people and different interests who have never met each other and they all come together and if you were just explaining this to some economist who's a government economist you know on paper you'd be like okay all of these people all of these resources come together um how much do you think that's going to cost well it costs like nothing it literally comes down to like less than a penny for this one pencil and there's no department of pencils there's no czar of pencils there's not some congress passing laws and legislating yet we don't go like oh my god how

will poor people get pencils they they're literally laying on the ground broke it there are miracles of the market all around us and we never seem to focus on them because we get we go to government schools and it's like uh you know the important lesson is like how a bill becomes a law and how george washington never told a lot and all this bullshit that's just pro-government bullshit so you never question the fucking killers that are ruling over so anyway we were just to answer what you're saying about like the the um the kind of harmony that of people working together i think this does happen all the time around us without violence let's talk about the initiatory violence so i'm i'm curious about the markets themselves okay so the markets like when did the again i'm if you

could just explain this to me like i've been eating marijuana for the last 15 years because it's one of those things that i don't i i mean my focus has always been on a on your focusing it's interesting because what you're describing with a pencil is what is known as the web of indra have you ever heard that term before no so it's the idea that like every single sentient being exists in this uh network like a spider web so that uh every it's also um i believe in buddhism they call it something like the law of interdependence but it's the idea that every single thing that exists is the result of this matrix of activity that manifests is that thing so no one thing has any primary identity outside of the connection it has with the other things that make it what it is

so you see a pencil you know and we're in the in a narrative time space continue in past present future right and you see this fucking or pen which i'm looking at right now you see that the a state of matter that has been assembled and will disassemble but is like if you could see it like outside of time and space it would be this like sort of weaving together of all these disparate parts coming to form this fucking thing that's then going to disintegrate yes and and there's from in and you know i guess the economic term would be the division of labor but it's really exactly what you're describing that everybody kind of breaks up into playing this role and it's not that they want to play a role in this bigger thing it's not even about that like nobody the guy who

drives the truck isn't like i'm making a pencil happen like it's not about that it's just he's collecting his paycheck and he's doing that but yeah i think there's something look there's always to me something really fascinating about and i looked at it more by the way i've always loved your stuff like i've been a fan of yours when when louis said you were coming on Legion of Skanks i was like really excited thank you and it's interesting when you say like we kind of focus on different things and you're right and that's why i could listen to you talk about some like transhumanism thing when i'm like oh wow i've never read about that that's really interesting but to me what i look at it a lot from an economic point of view and i just find it really fascinating like how we

live this way i feel like nobody seems to find it like why is there poverty is a very interesting quest a very easy question i should say so why is there poverty is like obviously i mean you're born into poverty central africa central africa because that's what the world gives us it gives us nature right which is poverty essentially why is there wealth is a really interesting conversation that never happens and we live in this like world we live at such a higher standard of living and i think most of us don't really know why well and most of us don't know i mean if the one thing people don't like to think about is how if you have a house or if you're staying in a place that has electricity and clean water compared to the majority of planet earth you are kicking ass i can remember

when i was in college we went to uh we went to uh to bet or to india to darmsala and we made friends with these uh i don't know they basically to bet and refugees who've been driven out by the chinese and we saw their house they had this little like apartment tiny tiny little place above like a restaurant in darmsala and two of them slept in the same bed that was so small the way they slept in the bed is the guys would spoon each other they would hold one guy would hold the other guy in so he wouldn't fall out of the bed poverty breeds some beautiful shit sometimes but but they didn't see themselves as it being in poverty like they weren't like they weren't walking around every day like god this is a hell life they were kind of glowing and happy and funny and interesting but

you never you never got the sense of like poverty and so interesting and it is it is fascinating because so it's like but so that all that being said it's like to get back to the fundamental question the marketplace right one of my teachers ramdas he actually refers to this part of the world as the market and like how you've got to like you have to deal with the market like there's no way around it spiritual people some people want to ignore the fact that you have to like come up with a way to sustain yourself here in this marketplace that we're in the whole thing is a marketplace the whole fucking thing is a marketplace so this is what i want to talk about when is the marketplace always been here is it a product of population growth i think of like some degree of a market

is anytime you have to me at least anytime you have people voluntarily exchanging you've got somewhat of a market so you've probably had somewhat of a market you know it might be a very very small limited one but probably since about the the beginning of time and i think probably you've had um conquest and violence and people's robbing other people from the market in fact i think probably there was far if you look at the big scale of of human history and you were like how much of uh say what for lack of better term property uh how much of property was uh acquired through markets and peaceful transactions and how much was acquired through conquest and violence i think humanity would start with the vast majority being conquest and violence and that's

going down and down and down and down and where we are now is probably more broad brush speaking throughout the world there's probably more wealth and freedom right now than there's ever been and recorded yeah there's a i think uh there's a book by peter diamandas do you know that is he's anyway he wrote a book called abundance and he just shows the statistics of like how great relatively things are great now again relatively we're talking about a time when people are like choking on their own plague sure sure but and if you're talking about you know like but as you were kind of getting at before with going to tebet you get a little bit more of the perspective you know we we could talk about how the rust belt has been deindustrialized

in the last few decades and there's a lot of truth to that but if you look at the big picture of the world those people you're talking about there were something in the last 25 years there's something i don't have the numbers in front of me but it's close to a billion people who have escaped what the un or what the world bank considers extreme poverty yeah like a dollar 25 a day or under and about a billion people have riven from that to like the next level up which still sucks compared to us but is a very big big and this is because of stuff that's gone on in china and india where these dirt poor countries have started to liberalize their markets a little bit and let people have businesses so yeah okay so it's a you have an optimistic perspective things

on planet earth not not well it's interesting because it's like i think of the i don't know it's a good verse evil i don't know if i have an optimistic perspective i think we're in this force right now i think what you see of of like the rise of technology which you you know know a lot more about than i do but i think what you're seeing right now which is really fascinating is it's like the um the totalitarians have this force but then the good guys also have this force so so you have uh you know the cia can spy on people the nsa can spy on people they can drone bomb people they can do all this shit better than they ever could but also one edward snowden can go fucking release all their shit and show everybody what's going on or

one little leak or one you know julien assange can go bring down the clinton's from where so there's this weird i don't actually know if i'm optimistic or not i think we need to get the control away from the authoritarians how it's impossible such a foolish optimism thing yes this system that's existed for basically as far back as we can remember which has been at the center of society yeah if you were to say arranged marriage is going to go away or some of the i mean there there are things that were fundum and and look just to make this about the libertarian thing both of those issues right slavery arranged marriage they were fundamental to how society operated they were institutions predicated on force this is why we look back at them as horribly

immoral because the people didn't have a choice right to be entered or not they were denied their self ownership right it is it is the same to me government is kind of a parallel that it'll be this thing kind of like slavery that we get rid of and eventually look back and go oh this is so ridiculous that we thought hey we should have we should take care of poor people's health care how should we raise that money let's threaten to throw people in cages unless they send it into a bunch of criminals in washington dc who murder children and don't care about that but we'll trust them to make the right decisions unlike our retirement benefits okay so the idea of slavery being gone it seems to me that it's more that it's sort of evolved right like if i've got a

because you like can you imagine just what a pain in the fucking ass it would be to have a slave like you got it you you you have to i don't think anyone ever looks at that part of the picture like i you know and again i guess it's gonna probably offend people obviously i think slavery is wrong and but it's good to think like what would it have been like to have a slave to be as typical sure because like my fucking like just owning a two chihuahua and a poodle and a cat is a pain in the ass yes i agree it's a pain in the ass now obviously these these things aren't doing any kind of production work for me so there's nothing coming in but what i mean to say is slavery evolved because if you can the idea is all right what is a way for me to get my slaves

to pay for their own fucking housing what's a way to do that well that's to give them a minimum wage so i'm gonna pay you just the amount of money you need to function from a month to month basis and you're gonna work for me you don't have to by the way yes don't work for me don't work for me i don't care i run a fucking mcdonald's corporation they're people lining up every day coming in here filling out applications with trembling hands because they desperately need this fucking job so i don't care and if you go away don't have a job see what happens to you what are you gonna do okay but i don't look i kind of i half agree with what you're saying and maybe i i have disagree so i would say in one part yes slavery in a sense did evolve and and what you and look

i could look at things like the war on drugs and say that is a form of slavery you could look at the military draft say that we were talking about this the other day i think maybe even a worse form of slavery to to enslave someone with the job of killing i mean it's military slaves gladiators so there there's there's lots of horrible but i'm just making the point that this one if you want to just call it overt cotton picking slavery which was i mean just blatant accepted a part of life like this institution did essentially it did get accepted by people that this is morally wrong and then after we got rid of that we found far better ways of of picking cotton and running an economy and things like that now in terms of what you're talking about i do i would disagree with

or reject that the idea that if you don't have a job if you don't work you're gonna basically be in a bad situation where you have to depend on charity i mean i guess nowadays you could depend on government but what i'm advocating is you'd have to depend on someone voluntarily giving it to you yes that is bad but i i hesitate to compare that to slavery i mean that's more like a beef with biology existence nature look if we're left on a desert island and you say i just want to lay on my ass all day and i don't want to go collect food you don't have food at the end of the day and and i don't think that justifies you uh going and robbing someone who did go work all day now if you want to ask them for some that's fine but i so that's where i'd kind of you know

it's not offering someone an option to me isn't the same thing as enslaving them well it's it here's where it gets weird so like yeah sure the the old like let's go to the archaic time and who the fuck knows if it's true but like you know chris ryan who write on the podcast a few times he describes this sort of eden right it wasn't really you could there was enough for eat there weren't as many people so like what time are we talking about like just after humans grew a neocortex okay so 150 000 years ago or something like that hunter gathers preagrarian revolution human there's not as many of us on the planet number one so we're wandering around eating grubs like and sure in that situation if you decide that you're not going to work which would be

gathering food well you're dead you're going to get fired from the universe in the form of starving to death so that's what firing used to be is you would starve to death because you weren't adept to survive in the universe and so you would just die you had a tribe of people around you who would sort of support you uh and and if and theoretically you know if you were a fuck up in the tribe and did something fucked up they would banish you right now this is interesting because there appears to be a biological corollary for rejection which is you know look this up I didn't fact check but apparently the part of the brain that experiences rejection the pain of rejection is in a different part of the brain it's the part of the brain that experiences physical pain

because that's very interesting to be rejected by the tribe is death you know I don't know if you've ever seen meerkat manor but those little bastards will they're cute little guys and they like if you've seen them they're weird looking but like they will kick out a meerkat if it fucks up and it's dead and then it's just gonna get eaten it's dead and I think I've seen in um like apes well if they commit rape they'll be ostracized by the community at times like there's really interesting little things like that yeah it's a it's a bad thing for whatever your particular biomass to kick you out you're fucked but it's it very much goes in line with what you were saying before talking about kind of like the harmony of things working together and it's

almost like if there's a little bit of corruption or a little thing where this is not harmoniously working like you're just taking and not contributing or you're hurting somebody else or you're breaking the rules we have a way to bring it back to the harmony kind of clear out the corruption I mean it seems you know it seems kind of cold obviously when you're talking nature is very harsh but it's it's interesting that things do kind of move in the state of nature harmony is just uh I think universally preferable to corruption so things tend to yeah try to move in that direction yeah and and you even if you got like blasted out into the fucking like forest or whatever I guess theoretically you could figure out a way to go naked and afraid style build your

own little hermit shack be a cunt out in the wilderness by yourself mushrooms or whatever but now to get back to this idea of there being a kind of unspoken police force that is always at the perimeter of acceptable behavior right and that if you fail to live in an acceptable way uh in in this society or in most societies uh which is to in some way or you need a place to stay like if I go out into the if like I get if I don't know if suddenly I ended up just deciding like you know what I'm not gonna fucking podcast anymore not that I ever would it's my favorite thing right but if I'm like I'm not gonna do anything anymore I don't want to do anything anymore I'm done with doing things it's illegal to not do shit here because what'll happen is I

won't get the money to pay rent right and then because I'm not working now and then and then then when I don't have the money to pay rent I'm gonna have to get on some lower rent housing or something like that but even then there's all these forms I gotta fill out I don't want to fill out fucking forms anyway the long and short of it is or maybe I'm crazy you know maybe like my like a lot of these people are like fucking insane you walked out dude I remember we are my core and I went to see a movie or walking back and we heard the most piercing shriek it was amazing like it was the sound of somebody getting disemboweled like it was terrible so bad that we're like we gotta see where that shrieks coming from so we go towards the shriek

and and uh it's go it stops and it's like everything seems fine everyone's looking around and then this like completely innocuous woman at the top of her lungs just belts out this blood curdling shriek and she's doing it intermittently and it's echoing off the buildings so you can't really see who's doing it but anyway she's out of her fucking mind yes surrounded by a group of people who are just trying to live in a harmonious way yet here is a malfunctioning uh member of our species the fucking operating system's not running the right thing the wheels the rainbow wheels spinning up there and it's coming out in shrieks right what do we do we ignore her just completely fucking ignore the shrieking freak right because what are you gonna do what

am I gonna do what's anyone gonna do we gotta freak we gotta freak shriek freak here so like I looked around for a cop getting you know what's weird is me we're walking next to her because I'm like fuck maybe we can get her help and then she starts screaming and then like I realized people are thinking we're the ones who are inducing the shriek anyway the to summarize what I'm trying to say here is this the problem is we don't have a forest to banish people to anymore there's no way to people like that are gonna grow food there's no no we have to find a more humane way to deal with that and I I'm not sitting here you know a lot of times when um critics or what of libertarianism will say oh it you guys treat the market like a religion like all these problems will just be

solved and I'm not saying that at all I think like I don't know how exactly we solve that problem particularly like the crazy person shrieking in the street by the way I think honestly I think this is more of a New York City problem where I think small towns do handle it maybe a little bit better than like hey who's the crazy person and we do kind of get together whereas in New York you're like dude there's so many people here it's just not there's no sense of community I'm just making the point that look we have I mean the United States if we're talking government versus markets and how they would handle these problems the United States federal government is the biggest government in the history of humanity it spends four trillion dollars a year spies on every person

and says drone bombs were in seven countries right now we have military bases all throughout it's the biggest government in the history of the world New York uh state on top of that big federal government is one of the biggest state governments I mean we spend all this money have some of the highest state federal taxes you have the cops and that woman is still standing in the street so it's not as if I don't know if the market or government has it's like people have to come up with what we're gonna do for people like that and I don't again I just don't I don't jump to authoritarianism as the solution ever go that and that's that's what I want to like kind of talk about universal I want to talk about that universal authoritarianism because

we're earlier we're talking about a person in a tribe who is parasitic right whatever in whatever way like where I'm going fucking hunting and this guy is like no I'm gonna stay back at the village in hump right whatever it's like no man you gotta help you have to help so this person isn't helping and so at some point you know I think it has to be very extreme you're like you gotta get the fuck out of here maybe you murdered somebody whatever maybe so then we're looking at a different kind of invisible police force which is the police force of nature that will devour the but okay here's the only thing that I would uh where I would I just think it's important to make a distinction between volunteerism and aggression and and even if it's something where the volunteerism

leaves you in a situation where it's like you're fucked it's there still to me is a distinction between it's kind of like saying um let me try to think about this way like um if you try to um try to think of an example of this but like so if I I live in um a community where we all have an agreement to work together and the other nine people go uh you're not holding up your end we don't want to work with you anymore you can call that a culture police I just don't want to like equate that to a cop who comes in and says oh you're you you're smoking a joint I'm gonna grab you and throw you in a cage there's nothing voluntary about that like if a girl if you're dating someone and she decides to break up with you it's like um it may suck it may lead you it

leave you in the same position of basically not having a girlfriend but that's her right to not want to be with you that's their right to not want to work with you if you're not contributing as much and I think you want to judge that situation they're they're always very nuanced like it's like what happened was this guy used to be a good worker and something happened to him and he's not a good worker anymore has he always been a lazy bum is he you know what I mean like there you almost want a smaller community to make that decision it seems like it has that's the problem and some kind of what the communities are too expansive right now but it's the we're dealing with like a what I'm getting at is the grinder of nature yes used to be the police force it was just

the that's what I'm getting at it's like okay I see I see what you're saying and there is that I get what you say there is that like kind of self-policing thing it's like culture does that to all of us it makes you not step out of line here there's these things you can't say these things that are kind of frowned upon like like with a police force for gazelle is lions right and it is illegal for gazelle to be too slow that's good okay yes I like gazelle breaks that law it is given the death penalty by a lion that's it nature and then what ends up happening and again like but here's the slippery slope of this path when we go into nature and gaze upon the mock of valiant cruelty of the evolutionary process and witness the way nature deals with

crime in the sense of crime for nature is being unhealthy crime for nature is just not being able to be in tune with whatever the rhythms are whatever particular biomass you happen to have incarnated as you break that law you don't go to jail there's no cops you just die yes no look I agree with you and that is I mean I don't even think I agree with you I think that's just objectively true and I so is that the marketplace no I think to me the marketplace is actually something very different I mean what to me that's almost more similar to government like that's an example of like look the reality is there's something bigger and stronger here and you can feel however you like to feel about it but you cross this thing it will crush you and these are the rules and and to

me that's that it's gravity or you could just describe that as like the you know the police like as you said like that's the it is a force that you're not going to beat if you go up against it to me the the whole existence of of humanity is kind of like we go from the state of nature which is what you're talking about which is just kind of like who can impose their will on who who's stronger and more dominant that one wins and eventually human being started trying in these little experiments of actually organizing society at least in some degree around philosophy logic reason and not just this kind of crazy state of nature and we came up with what I would say in from literally from the period of where um there's the golden age in the muslim world from literally

greco roman shit to the golden age in the muslim world to the enlightenment uh the best values that have come out of humanity so far have kind of been I guess what you would trace from like the from the magna carta through kind of like the you know like everything about natural rights the idea of human beings having natural rights and this is almost where humans have started to in some little way transcend the rules of nature and go to okay we're actually going to maybe organize society around the idea that people there there's morality involved here it's not just the force of who wins and who loses there's something moral there's something about owning yourself as a human being whatever this existence is we don't really know what it is but we do know that human beings

very in particular from other uh uh animals self identify self understand and and use their own bodies for the future there's something immoral look I think if we would say morality even back let's say me and you as modern people are looking back even to something in the state of nature it's like 200 000 years ago or something like that and we just saw you know we're just we get a bird's eye view and we're looking down and some guy uh like rapes a woman you know like it some hunter comes up to some other villages gatherer and she screams no and he holds her down and rapes her I think me and you even if there's no government there's no law there's no jails there's nothing I think me and you would still feel like that's immoral on some level we would go he he took

something from her that was kind of wrong I think morality has always existed eventually human beings started to find themselves there and to me what the markets are is quite the opposite the market is people coming together and saying okay we're going to respect private property respect your ownership and voluntarily exchange through that so I don't look at it all the same thing I look at it as actually quite different so you don't see the market as being some natural projection of the the fundamental laws of the universe that the markets aren't isn't that like I guess I think it's what I was saying before I think it's moving toward universally preferable behavior I think it's moving toward harmony and and I think look it's not just government right I think it's why I said

at the beginning like the non-aggression principle it's anyone initiating force I think if you're going out and like asking a girl out and trying to go on a date with her and you're you're within the harmony now because you're trying to make this work she may not like it then you got to adjust and she's got just yeah if you go out and bash her over the head and drag her home now you're corrupting something now you're a member of the Mongol horde right do you know about the Mongols do you know I've heard a little bit not much so the way that it's a very interesting man you know Genghis Khan was one I've read a little bit about him fascinating fascinating but his mother so his mother was getting married and the way it used to work and for the Mongols was

you would have to like if you wanted to marry someone you basically became an indentured servant to their family for like six years so you would go so you have a girl you like you go hang out with their family for six years carry water like will scrub their mom's fucking feet whatever it is and then you're granted the right to marry the girl oh tinder has made things so much easier I know man but then so but so that's a problem because you know there's this temporal investment when it comes to getting reproductive rights so the other way that you would get a wife is just a kidnapper and so the way that it worked was Genghis Khan's mom was heading back with her dad who just spent six fucking years working so that he could like have reproductive

rights to Genghis Khan's mom they're going through some snowy past bandits appear she whispers in his ear like you've got to go or they're gonna kill you and he's like fuck he leaves Genghis Khan's wife or Genghis Khan's mom is now like kidnapped they she's just like yeah I'm kidnapped so I guess I'm your wife now and then they like that's where Genghis Khan came from the one of the great conquerors and we're actually interested enough one of the great unifiers that's crazy because literally genetically he unified them right like I mean he he fucked so many chicks that like what was it something like there was like a third of the people had his like DNA and that's right yeah but not just that I mean he was like what's interesting is he was

um uh he was uh I mean I think it's as a libertarian you might actually like Genghis Khan in some way because he was if you look at the time period that he was in and if the idea is that like we're talking about a continuous readjustment of some kind of moral compass based on like more harmonized complexity and human interaction if you look at the time period he's in fuck you know this was a time where if you were living in Europe and you were like no I don't you know I don't really believe the whole Jesus thing you're fucking ten you are tender they're gonna set you on fire it's very hard to go back to any of these time periods and apply anything like moral you you know modern what we think of as modern moral standards because it really is as I was saying

before just so everything's based on conquest at that time but you can see the growing the way that it becomes more and more refined because Genghis Khan was shocked by the fact that people in Europe weren't allowed to worship whoever they wanted he was a multicultural person so he thought he liked Christians because they drank he liked Buddhists he liked every religion he came into contact with he didn't fucking care he was just trying to harvest this I mean I guess I'd I'd be you know opposed to um you know imposing that on other people even if you have a superior belief I don't think you should go violently impose it on other towns which is basically what he did um but but yes I would like that stuff I mean he yeah I guess he was cooler on religion than

certainly the other Europeans were he was cooler on religion the other European the way everybody was doing shit back then was was like violent and terrible and and he was like just responding to primitivism because he was like he since he wasn't locked into I don't know if you ever seen what the letter that Genghis Khan's one of his sons one of his descendants when they were still the Mongol Empire wrote to the Pope have you ever seen that no I don't think so oh my god it's the most amazing Smackdown because the Pope writes this letter to the cons being like listen because the way you know there's lots of ways to dominate and one of them is psychologically through religion so the Pope writes this letter to the cons like listen you've got to understand you're breaking the laws

of Jesus Christ and the con writes back and he's like I've read your letter but I don't understand if your god is so powerful why do we conquer and control everything under the sky that's not a bad argument and he ends he ends the letter with saying I want you to come and bow before me or god knows what will happen to you she's saying like come and give me come and submit to the Empire so um anyway the the point I'm trying to make here is that when we when you witness uh that from our perspective we think god barbarism barbarism but now just like you were saying we look at what we're doing is like oh this is a very sophisticated modality that we're in here it's sophisticated you know and it is

it's more sophisticated sure and yet when I go to a fucking McDonald's which I don't do that much and I gaze across the counter at a dude who's at the fucking cashier's desk for like or let's see I don't go to McDonald's I call it a cashier's desk whatever the fuck it is and I see the look on their faces right and they're and I gotta be like I have to get into a game with them right I go into a game which is you're the guy who fucking takes the green paper and gives me the fucking hamburger and I'm the guy who gives you the green paper yeah and I'm gonna talk to you like in a certain way and you're gonna talk to me in a certain way and that's called an inner a transaction and it's interesting very formal hey how are you today welcome to McDonald's what can I get you

oh I'll take the number three would you like uh what size big fries small fries small fries then this is interesting if you watch the way that you do the transaction your body goes an autopilot you reach into your pocket pull out your wallet yeah it's very strange we all get into these roles you don't mean you were talking about the other day that uh that stanford experiment with the prisons the stanford prison experiment it's like everyone just gets into their role that's just how we are and you go right you know I you know it's like people who put on a suit they get into this I'm a suit guy role and people who don't do it and we get into this I'm a comedian role and we all we all assume the shit but I will say this that I don't you know I think there's a lot of

disparaging of of you know capitalism for for lack of better term and I get it I get what you're saying and there's these struggles of just living in a first world country in the modern world where it's like we whether you're talking about the mcdonald's guy or just a guy in a cubicle I mean it's the reason why office space is such a great movie because it kind of spoke to that kind of like what the fuck are we doing yeah with our existence and we are evolved to live in a different world than we live in yeah there are all these issues however I also look at it on the other side and I see that you know even like a minimum wage worker in America is living a higher standard of life than than the vast majority of the like my grandfather was a a holocaust survivor from

Nazi Germany who you know like it's like these guys have such better lives and I'll tell you what I look at of capitalism in the marketplace is a fact that I could come out of the stand comedy club like like drunk at one in the morning and I a Jew I walk into the street put my hand up and a Muslim stops for me and takes me back to my door and at the end of it he goes God bless and I go thank you brother have a good night now if you were to get into every belief he has about Jews or every belief I have about muslim there probably some shit that yeah but at the end of the day I want the ride he wants the cash we're all in this together he just wants to get home to his family so I think it also has this amazing unifying like thing where where we all kind of come together and literally

we're making each other wealthier you are giving me a ride home that I needed and you're getting money that I need I it's this amazing voluntary thing where I go in my mind a ride home is worth more than 20 dollars listen I like it man don't get me wrong do you I like the fact that right now I can walk a block away and a person playing the role of the man who makes coffee will make me a coffee and I'll be able to I just did it he would do the great job he nailed it I love it but and but also I'm a meat eater so when I eat meat I have to there's two things you could do when you eat meat you could think about the fact that this motherfucker that you're eating suffered in the most severe way it's gonna make it a less palatable steak like you see that which is why I hate the

steak houses that put pictures of cows on the wall oh yeah that's a little rough I don't get it man and I went to a steakhouse once in Vegas and they had pictures of cows on the wall and I swear to God I was super high but I swear it's like they started playing the sounds of like mooing at some point it was really fucked up man cows are very sweet creatures I don't know no I I yes I've seen some of the videos and that shit is hard to watch and it's hard it's hard to get through that there is look it may not be like a human level of of awareness or something but there is some level of awareness that is experiencing like a shit ton of pain right in order for us to eat that yeah so you know we look at our phones and we see these fucking beautiful devices sleek incredible filled

with components and like some of the components constructed using conflict minerals and emerging from these factories in now China that where people they have to put nets under the windows and they have to keep sharp and that's that's yeah that's certainly terrible but you know I also do have a little bit of like sometimes I think we demonize what are like considered like sweatshops or things like that in in third world countries and we don't quite get what the comparative options are like I know this one because people will always I make this point a lot and people have really jumped down my throat for making in fact I I was debating libertarianism versus liberalism with this guy Sam Cedar who's like a progressive guy who's been out for a long time

okay radio show and he was he really jumped on me when I said this because I said you know we had a large experiment in free markets in America and I basically made the point that from the end of the civil war until the beginning of the first world war you had a period in time in American history where you had a really large experiment in free markets like there was no income tax there was no central bank the federal government spent like two three percent of of the federal of the national income it was like very very small government and what was created in this time is the the the building block for the richest country that's ever been created in the history of yeah I think it's a really good case study and right away people start jumping on me like oh you're

worshiping the gilded age there was child labor there was you know like pollution there were these dirty factories and I'm like okay first off there was child labor in that generation and every single generation that proceeded it child labor was not a new thing to that it was actually the generation where it went out there's this period in time where we as people we've been here forever right modern humans for like a long long time and all of a sudden like like six thousand years ago we start with civilization or maybe it's older than that but we about a couple you know around this time at the gilded age we abolished realization the the yes we industrialized and abolished slavery at least overt slavery as we've said before pretty fucking huge advance

in human history and um so anyway I got a little bit lost over here saying but basically so when you go back there and they'll go like there were these dirty conditions and children were working but the more you look into it you go yeah but it was a substantial increase from the previous generation so that's only my point that I'm making with this china thing I know that Chinese kids are making our phones and making clothes and that does sound very icky to me but I also look at China and go like there's been this mass improvement in China in terms of of wealth so yeah I think you're the thing about it is that you know the past has been vile yeah and probably continues to the present continues in probably a lot of ways to be vile I just read we are homo sapiens

homo sapiens there used to be all these different sapiens and we wiped out all the other sapiens except us we killed them all yeah so I there's I went to liberal arts school and one of my professors sam scoble brilliant man and we used to get in this conversation about what happens if like a cell and a tiger becomes sentient and suddenly realizes that it and it wants to be a vegetarian but it's in a fucking tiger right it's in a tiger and when you think about this web of connectivity that we all are existing in because we are like in a in a meat ocean basically we're all connected through economies through the pulsation of law in this like kind of like undulating title and we and it's amazing that we need each other I mean what you were talking about before being like

ostracized I mean that's it that's really you know like you said yeah you could go live alone in the woods or whatever but we need each other so much right we're locked in yeah we're locked in but when you look at this network here you and me have a cool life and and but I know for sure that a few steps down I don't have to go that far there is connected to this network of me and again man I'm not making like oh and because of that we need to do this I'm just saying an analysis of the current situation is that huge swaths of the net that we are part of are experiencing fundamentally incarnation yes yes you're right and I'll tell you there's something about that that's so true and very well said and I think there's something about that that drives so much of the um what is

modern progressives social justice warriors all that stuff we're talking about white privilege or this or who's oppressed and who's not it's this uncomfortable thing that we have to deal with which is that we just locked out essentially from what we know in this genetic lottery where we're born in a first world country and me and you are like you're talking about the McDonald's guy we're doing good even for a first world we are like amongst the top of all humanity like the top little percentage and it's really there's a very weird thing to feel like that got some guy who's like a Mexican you know immigrant who's like running over the border right now with like nothing but the the clothes on his back he's just like you said he's just a meat pile like I am and he got that draw

and I got this one and I'm like so happy on this instead of that it does bring up these feelings like guilt and who you owe what to I just think if you look at it like I used to think I remember it's funny because we're here on my block where I grew up in high school I remember thinking this when I was a kid I uh I had a job at a bagel store real nice Jewish summer job and uh there there were like these Mexican guys who worked in the back and I remember just thinking to myself as a fairly liberal left-wing kid I was like uh this is so fucked up like they're getting way under they're under the table they're getting way under minimum wage they're fucking you know and I was like they should get minimum wage like I really felt passionately like there should be a law that

make sure these guys and of course there already was a minimum wage law but they they were being illegal and you know hiring them off the books but I remember thinking to myself man that's so fucked up and um like the older I got and the more I kind of reflected on that and started learning about how markets work and things I realized like okay if you were to find a way to enforce the minimum wage law like if you were to find a way to say like you cannot we found a way to enforce it we won't let you hire these guys you have to pay them a minimum yeah there's nothing else you could do more to fuck over those Mexicans what you would literally do would be to take away the only weapon they have which is that they're willing to undercut people if you forced her to pay the minimum wage

right away she would have been like okay well I'm gonna hire people who speak English who are legal who are here like I'm the whole reason I'm hiring you is because you're under I would be condemning them to stay in Mexico like it sucks it sucks that this is the process and that there's no easy fix but if you look at it the reason we're here like the reason I'm here is because my grandfather came over with nothing but the clothes on his back from that country worked in a fucking factory worked a shitty job gave my mother the opportunity to go to school she gave me a better life and now I have a and kind of for these Mexican people as much as it sucks that's the best path that's the best path to get them actually in the game do you know the um there's a to get back to the initial

sure sure uh and to address your point there and it is it's the point I do I think about it you know and I think about how uh well what can what what there are things that we must be able to do right there must be something but the the so the initial point is we violence when you're not defending yourself is unethical right and there's a group you know the weather underground yes sure bring the bill airs yeah bring the war back home that was their idea but what one of the I think it was they were saying is uh to ignore violence is violence so if we see violence happening and don't do anything about it if we have the ability to stop it I would reject the idea that that is violence I mean I'm not saying you could argue over whether it's a moral or something like that but I

wouldn't equate it to violence like I don't think if someone if someone punches you in the face and runs off I don't think I've also punched you in the face because I didn't like you know break it up if like let's say I'm sitting here and like let's say I don't know I'm just trying to think of the most like grotesque so let's say there's like a woman being like raped and you come by in the middle take a look at it and go hmm and keep walking off I mean that's pretty morally horrible yeah but it's not rape I don't think you should be convicted of rape so I wouldn't equate it to violence if that makes sense but you should the idea is you should do something if you can I think so and this is so this is the problem but what if a guy's got a gun I'm sorry just to push this a little bit

further right so if a guy's got a gun and he's raping a woman at gunpoint and I go hey stop and then he points the gun at me and I go well then you're an idiot it's more effective to like if you see a guy with a gun raping somebody probably your best bet is to call the fucking cops no I'm with you so my whole point is just that if there's something like if you're talking about state violence like look there's something to be said for like we just murdered people by the hundreds of thousands in Iraq and we're all sending our money into it are we somehow you know there's a real interesting moral question there like are we doing anything to actually stop these people being murdered but then you also look at the reason I use the analogy of the gun is because it's like

you get to this point like what the fuck am I gonna do if I stop sending my money they'll just throw me in jail and the war goes on you know but this is so this is where we enter into the realm of the extremist and this is where you enter into the realm of like all right I now again like I like my I have a lazy what I'm saying is we must to really like feel okay there's a huge thing we have to no matter who you are no matter how what your most most of most of you there's a thing we almost ignore which is if especially if you're American we are in a dragon that rampages around the planet and just slaughters people and it's a crazy dragon because like you know like when ISIS kills people there's some kind of rationalization behind it usually like when ISIS kills someone

it's like well they were gay whatever you know there's like at least there's a reason like when I'm getting killed by ISIS if I'm a gay man and I'm getting killed by it shoved off a building top by fucking ISIS I know there's some weird meaning to it which is and I know as I'm falling to my death that I died for love I was murdered by a fucking fundamentalist piece of shit and I died because I loved and that's a cool way to die I'm not gonna I'm not trying to think that until the afterlife which hopefully there is a beautiful paradise or I could laugh it off and not just some infinite darkness or whatever but what I'm saying is the way the dragon of the conquering dragon of the United States kills people is you're just walking to go check out your sheep yep

there's a fucking flash of light and you're turned into hamburger meat and it's an accident where like you know where we will say we'll we will just come out and say Obama said it was you know it's an unfortunate what do they call it they call it a collateral damage collateral damage yeah you don't even get to think that you died for anything at all you were an accident you're like in a hit well I try to I try to refer to war as mass murder as often as I can because that's really all it is but it's and because we don't we're not like oh we're not icky we don't like behead you with a sword you know it's like a drone but it's like there's this technology and then this terminology and it's like well it was a military operation and it was a blah blah blah

you know it's all that yeah collateral damage and yeah it's um yeah no there's no question we remove ourselves from what what is actually going on if you just bought a fucking mcdonald's hamburger or if you bought some nice coffee or if you paid your taxes this year or if you have done any transaction inside the united states you are part of a web of violence that is responsible for murder so well okay yeah you're yes you're part of the web I mean you can't but I guess by that logic even people outside the country could be part of the web I mean if you're like doing any business with an American or doing business with someone who's doing business with an American right like the whole web is all of us in a sense but I don't I think one of the things that governments

do which which I I try to fight back on because I think there's kind of like this religion of the state that they get people believing is it's this thing where they go they always go it's government of the people you know like we are the people the people are the government the state is the which is all kind of bullshit it's like no we're not really you like you're right we are all in this web of humanity together but it's like no there's a few hundred fucking killers who send over this killing force and then we're the ones who get robbed and forced to pay for it because the truth is the fact that then this is where I get to the thing between volunteerism and aggression let's say tomorrow they just went oh you know what uh taxes are voluntary who wants to keep funding

this war effort well the reason they don't do that is because they know what would fucking happen if they did right so I don't know if I can completely indict the entire you know like yes we have some moral responsibility but at the same time we are being forced into it it's like if a woman's being like uh like kidnapped and raped you don't sit there and go uh well I mean you kept blowing this guy it's like no well she doesn't have a fucking choice and if she was given a choice I'm pretty sure she would choose to leave oh I see so you know like there's some relief yeah the moral responsibility a little bit we're being forced into it yeah and yet when you consider heroes like okay let's imagine here let me create a really ridiculous really ridiculous picture

let's imagine that there's this terrible machine it's a scale right and on one side of this so marbles land on one side of the scale it's like this weird like uh it's a trap it's a it's a it's a machine it's the worst machine ever made and it's a scale and marbles land on top of the scale right every time someone drinks water of tiny little marble lands on the scale when the scale goes down a door opens up allowing a sociopathic pedophile to walk into a room filled with children do you keep drinking water knowing that eventually because you're one of the people drinking water you're gonna release a fucking pedophile into a room where he's gonna rampage through children and or do you die do you just die a hero yes would die we would certainly find that heroic in any

movie if we saw it in that guy and the guy died he sacrificed himself but but and so in other words if it was like you and me if it's you and me in the room and there's a water fountain you know you're gonna be looking at me I'm gonna be looking at you or like one amount fixed amount of water yeah look I get what you mean but at the same time you have to I get water first it's gonna be it's gonna be a tight no I mean really which of us do you think would take a sip of water first man if there's one fountain well if the in your example one fountain I'd like to think we'd share the fountain but like if there's a limited amount of water no I'm just saying I'm like so like there's a water fountain you and me are in a room we're locked in there we have all the food we need

but every time we take a sip of water oh well close to a water who drinks water first and we have to calculate how many marbles land I think I might drink first you're more in tune with the universe I mean this is coming this is gonna happen well I mean you know as you said it not that it's the perfect example but we were talking about something that is really going on and we all kind of are really contributing to it I think you do I think it is worth like examining and at least looking at that a little bit but again I don't you know I think if you know your taxes go to murder I look isn't it ethically isn't like it an ethical again I think that these are questions you don't want to ask I agree but isn't well I actually do want to ask but I think in general people don't

yes we don't like to think about it but isn't that ethical decision to make and I don't just mean taxes I mean like knowing for sure that within the next couple of weeks there is gonna be another drone strike I mean there was one I think yesterday yes like yeah so there's one every day because there's fucking dudes in Vegas like gamers who just sit in air conditioned vans and press a button that transforms that creates like complete annihilation of families and I mean just right here if you want to look at things like I mean the mass incarceration where we're literally we're fighting a war on a nonviolent crime because the prison union's lobby and tobacco and alcohol companies lobby us into like the prison union lobbies them into keeping these you know what mandatory

minimums and all these things funded by my god it's just disgusting so let me end this with a an important question because now I think we've assembled an idea of like your POV and the but from a libertarian perspective knowing that fundamental violence is happening and is is in some tiny minuscule way related to every financial transaction taking place in our society today what is the ethical move what does an ethical person do and how and also if the markets are so like good how is this allowed to happen well I mean okay because look okay so let me it's first off I guess might shot it because it's really really fascinating you know like question I think I do say that there is like the point I made before where you're a little bit off the hook

you're a little bit off the hook because you're forced and if somebody you know if somebody mugs you at gunpoint and you give them your money you're not exactly morally responsible for what they go do with this money but now if they keep mugging you repeatedly and you know they're taking this money to go kill someone I think let's use the concentration camps though to address that point Nazi prison guard right he's under someone else he got he's like look you're going to a fucking labor camp all right you got to be a guard there and you're a fucking soldier so you have to do what we say or you go to the fucking you'll be in the camp too basically if you don't want to yeah history does not like go through the Nazis who were at the concentration camps no they all of them are

complicit all of them are well well we I mean certainly a lot of them got killed but if you look at like the trials at Nuremberg and stuff like that what was more or less decided was like we're gonna go after high level people who are planning it and we will give somewhat of an out to the low level people who were like basically gonna die anyway I don't know I mean I think look I say I guess the balance I would find is like I'm not I don't think it's productive uh and also I'm just not willing to sacrifice myself to just go like I'm not gonna send my money in anymore I'll go be a martyr I'll go to jail something like that yeah but I do think that from a libertarian perspective once you realize all that there's an onus on you to try to maybe spread that knowledge

do something I mean I think there's you know it's not necessarily one or the other and then just to acknowledge the second part I don't you know when I say markets uh I'm saying volunteerism works very well in authoritarianism does not and I don't know that the human that there is a human tendency for both and I think we have to fight against one and move toward the other no I the reason why it which so crazy me is for how much capitalism is is uh demonized by everybody on the left it the horrible the mass immoral you know tragedies of our time are all being committed by governments I mean they're all being committed it's these these wars mass incarceration just just robbing people blind I mean all this cronyism it's it's all being created by government

the fact that the richest districts in the country are right outside Washington DC and right around New York City government has been infiltrated by corporations yes yes corporations are the result of capitalism well okay I don't I would disagree with that a little bit I think corporations okay the idea of firms and companies certainly are are a creation of markets and capitalism the idea of a corporation so someone having like legal personhood that protects them from that's kind of a government creation no I think there's this right people tried uh and you can look through the the titans of industry all these guys in in the latter part of the of the 18th or the 19th century um they all tried to monopolize their industries like JPMorgan and all these guys

they all tried to take over their industries they failed over and over again and just created a lot of stuff because it's very hard to monopolize in the in the free market and they all end up going into government I mean they do they go they get sucked into this government thing where instead of trying to outcompete somebody you just go lobby the government to get a rule against your opponent and it becomes the so yeah I'm I'm I just look at it as uh as as look there's there's basically two different types of interactions we can have uh voluntary or forced there's no legitimate reason in my opinion to institutionalize forced well let me talk about that for do you have a second we're going over time no sure I'm good yeah so volunteer okay so this is interesting someone

that I'm sure a libertarian does not like very much Zizek do you know Zizek I don't think I do he's amazing but he like he's uh uh a marxist he calls himself a marxist but he so he talks about uh the two different violent what do you call it volunteerism versus authoritarianism okay so the example he gives of this is like um okay authoritarianism is you're my kid we're gonna go see your grandmother all right and I'm gonna say to you put down the fucking Nintendo switch we're here where you're gonna go take a shower and wear your nice clothes and we're gonna go see your grandmother whether you like it or not that's authoritarianism you gotta go there's no choice I'll drag you into the car I'm your dad right so that's like authoritarianism or I say to you John can you stop playing Zelda for a second I want

to talk to you you know that your grandmother is very old and might not be around much longer and she would really like to see you but I'm gonna give you the decision about whether or not you can come and see your grandmother or not and in that last in that part the child is being given the illusion of volunteerism but the reality is the kid is being emotionally manipulated and knows what the right answer is now this is a problem now this kind of trick this trick is is rotten because it appears in a lot of different ways so when we think okay the man is allowed to work at the cash register or not work at the cash register really though he's got to have those green bits of paper I can't remember which comedian has that fantastic joke might be Bill Hicks

but I can't remember who which is like if you want to understand how this is in a free country look at what happens when you run out of money you can't do shit you can't do shit for you to get into the cab to go with the muslim man you got to have those green slips for me to get in the fucking cab well yeah I mean yeah you gotta have something to give back yes I agree but so so so the problem is that what we think of as volunteerism isn't true volunteerism in the sense that there is a there will be a stern consequence from the state should you no longer but that's okay just just to push you by first of all the first thing I would say is that I just kind of hesitate if you're when you're using examples of authoritarianism versus volunteerism to make authoritarianism maybe

make it seem not as stark of a contrast or maybe even authoritarianism is better they always like to use an example of a kid and I really really just reject the idea I get this all the time and I reject the idea that the government are the parents and we're the kids I just don't think that's a fair analogy because the problem is that then you ignore the fact that we're all adults we're all the same equal thing and anything that you're every authoritarian institution relies on this kind of master slave king surf no like this mentality that all adults are not equal human beings there's the adults up there and then you get this mentality where you go and people project this shit onto the government all the time they go like a you'll be arguing about the

war on drugs and you go alcohol is more dangerous than than pot and you're almost assuming you guys are just dumb but that assumption is that they're trying to write a like they're a good parent in your mind they're trying to write the rule well but they're just fucking up but the truth is they work for the fucking tobacco and alcohol company like it's not that it's not any of that you're just getting duped so I hesitate to use tobacco and alcohol company or a result of the free market um I think that a lot of sure there's a lot of companies that are uh make money in the free market and then go try to take over government I have no problem with them making the money in the free market I don't want them to try to take over the government a natural progression of by the

way man let me just say again I am not a communist I for me to in some way or another dismiss how lucky I am I have a great life because of the way things are working right now so I just I'm not like saying therefore let's take the property from their wealthy and disperse it among the people again I'm just saying when we look at unfettered capitalism the end result of it is the infiltration of the state there's no question about that this is essentially why I'm an anarchist and not a minarchist libertarian I think what you had as I was kind of saying before with the history of America is you have this a large experiment in free markets with a small government and as the country creates all this wealth then these wealth interests go in and try to take over the government it's almost

why I think this entity shouldn't exist at all because it is kind of inevitable inevitable that it will grow and grow and grow in size and strength that's kind of what you know so I do alternative I think I think the alternative is it will look how we get to to uh from from here to free markets I don't know I think I have a few different ideas on how it could maybe play out I think it's possible that more and more technology um just makes more government things obsolete I mean I kind of think when you can 3d print a gun it's not going to really matter how you feel about gun control I think when you know what I mean like there's all these different things where the government can kind of just be virtual reality multinational office buildings that are

where the workers are paid in bitcoin I mean there's lots of there's lots of different like like you know kind of possibilities but I also think that if you whatever there's this kind of tendency someone this guy Stephan Molyneux is a internet libertarian guy he made this analogy I thought this was a really well done one but he goes uh he was saying like if you were like that economists uh during slavery and that this is real you can look this up would used to make this argument that uh they would be like who would pick the select who will pick the cotton and that the southern economy would be destroyed if you didn't have slavery and all these arguments and they they if you were to have given an accurate answer to that question if you're gonna

like who will pick the cotton you'd be like well you know we're gonna dig into the earth and find dinosaur juice and then big build metal rope like nobody actually knows if you get rid of authoritarianism and let a market work we don't know exactly how this is gonna go but we wouldn't be able to have massive wars like this we wouldn't be able to talk about getting rid of authoritarianism because that seems to be like the obvious ethical actionable move we've got to get rid of authoritarianism we have to arrest the the reptilian claws off of the fucking steering wheel of the country and and but to do that to do that come on no i'm it's no small task but it goes back to what i was saying before you're talking about sure violent it would require not necessarily

violent revolutions don't usually work out that well i think look i think that um there's no question what i'm talking about is a revolution but it goes back to what i said before about like if you were you know if you were sitting in round in 1845 saying who's you know we need slavery and if you were if you were sitting in a in 1985 and and said uh you know communism's gonna fall i mean this would be a crazy right thought but it happened and these things can happen and the truth is we've never been closer to it i mean like we it's actually pretty amazing how you know i mean we've never had a real shot at this until now where ideas can spread and people can have these conversations there's all these different things that people used to say like well you'll just need authoritarianism

for this and now we're figuring out like oh you don't so i mean let's i don't know how it happens let's say the some like 15 angels appear and they go to washington and they of they like take every senator every congressman bought by the corporations that truly doesn't represent the people right they take every every president vice presidents whoever they may be they take them to another place but that's here's the thing right it's like yeah that's or i evaporate the heads of all tobacco companies or i evaporate like every single no it does nothing it doesn't matter someone else fills in that void the thing that you need is to actually get at a shift in awakening i mean this is this this does happen it's it's not like impossible this is what you need but it's not it

can't be a top-down approach like that what does happen though right is we're living in this era now what just happened with hillary clinton is really fucking fascinating yes and the implications of this i think are that i don't i don't think they're ever gonna be able to run a career criminal again and it's because of the technology if you've been a fucking murderer for 25 years there's going to be a julian assange out there who gets your emails gets a leaked thing and we're gonna and now you have this thing uh nick gillespie who's uh editor of reason magazine made this point on my podcast that really stuck with me because there's an amazing thing that that technology does where you'll see like hillary clinton's uh tweet and she's like i want you know better jobs at higher

wages and communities coming together and then what right underneath it it's like you're a lying cunt you murdered 15 people like you and it's just the establishment is being degraded look what i said before about the reason they don't make taxes voluntary right just very quickly take the war effort if they were to say uh say we're in the middle of the wrack war and they go if you want to the funding is now voluntary for the iraq okay so the 30 40 percent who are against the iraq war they immediately pull their funds out the other uh 70 60 percent now has to pay for that other share too that makes about 10 to 20 percent of them drop out then the other has to pay the whole before you know what this whole thing's over why do they make taxation uh uh why do they why do we

have to be forced to pay for these wars why do they have to control the media why do they have to do all this other shit because it'll fall apart if they don't and that's our hope that's our hope is that the fact that they rule over us like that indicates that they need this and look if you look at the numbers of the media they're freaking out right now this whole fake news bullshit that they're going off on they're freaking out right now because all of the mainstream media numbers are going down all of the alternative media things are going up it platforms even like this and and fucking like a lot of our other friends doing stuff this did not exist before where we're challenging all that shit and and so i'm just saying i wouldn't look it could go really

bad probably but i wouldn't be closed off to the idea of like things could work out really well well i do i mean i when you kind of see what's going down you do kind of witness them it does appear to be a machine it has all the symptoms of a malfunctioning machine like oh we're in the end of something i mean it's it's it's amazing like almost i i try to sometimes like i'll do this at a show if i'm like in a packed room sometimes i'll ask if there's a historian in the crowd i'll just try to get into the thing where you're like okay so let me paint you a picture there's a great nation it becomes a great wealthy nation starts as a republic expands into an empire then it gets way too far expanded militarily spends itself into debt and the culture starts

falling apart this ends well right i just kind of go through like is this ever is this ever ended in a good way i'm not like what are we looking at here uh but it's but that is really what's happening and if you look at trump or the social justice warriors i mean you look both sides you think about a culture falling apart or the conservatives like a generation ago are like bill buckley and f a hayek and now it's like grabbing by the pussy the liberals a generation ago you know they're like we need to end the war in vietnam and that they're like you're micro like wrestling against everyone's going fucking crazy right now it's nuts right yeah it's nuts i mean we are witnessing a meltdown for sure and we're and what's really interesting about is uh it's a

meltdown like it's literally a meltdown like uh the the whatever the whatever the machine that was created by the founding fathers is is beginning to uh to to fall apart in this really strange way it's not like it's like it's like a sudden sudden someone has suddenly like put a guitar pedal in front of everything and the sound is being modulated in this chaotic way where all these fundamental pillars of what we thought were just a normal part for example a president that is uh stable you know they've all kind of even if they have been like murderous they're stable murderers they're like an american psycho level i put cream on my face every morning and comb my hair and then syndrome attacks that kill hundreds of people but well it's like george w bush like

they'll always bring up they bring this up all the time because you know trump will be like you know these muslims they're out of control and people will be like even george w bush always said islam is a religion of peace and then you're like yeah and then he slaughtered like 300 000 of us like but they're like yeah but he didn't say mean words though like that this is really crazy but that's the world we live in where you're like yeah i don't really think he should be saying those mean words but are you out of your fucking mind that this is the big offense well we wanted our in the old days when a high priest sacrificed someone they did it with a kind of like regal ceremony you would like you know sprinkle water on the baby's head lift it up to the moon and then rip it's

hard out well that's right and they need that ceremony this is what they hate about trump okay that's a great great point because he breaks the fucking ceremony and you can't have that this whole thing's got to be sold that way dude you can't have it's like look when you go into a religion and they've got like it's like the stained glass and the big ceiling and someone plays the organ is like and then they come up and they're like oh he's like someone can't just come and turn a chair backward and be like hey let's rap about jesus it doesn't work that way they need the show and when you start removing the show it gets very very dangerous for them because you can expose the man behind the curtain also yeah and i mean the big mistake trump is making i think uh i mean because

if you look at evolution and and the idea and i think we disagree on this point i'll rethink my thoughts on it uh because i didn't didn't have those words volunteerism versus authoritarianism until today so i get i have this new tool to work with but when you look at like uh uh trump and the mistake or the idea of evolution of the evolution of imperialism right the evolution of imperialism becomes like an invisible emperor that's the idea it's not really an emperor it's like a president that we elected he's like it's not certainly not what it used to be used to be fucking i was the pharaoh yeah i'm the the like i'm god the there's a major shift from kind of the monarch model to the democratic if you want to call it you could like it was a normal thing to

like be sitting in some imperial palace wearing robes eating fine food yes but there are also there's this guy uh there's a really great book on this topic uh called democracy the god that failed by haun sorm and hapa and he writes about kind of the compare uh you know after the first world war where we europe went from this transition to monarchy into these democracies and he really talks about a lot of uh you know one of the things that's really interesting it also changes the mindset where he goes this whole mindset of like we are the government the government represents the people because no one really bought that shit under a monarchy you kind of sit there you're like yeah he's the king he rules over us we know what the fuck this is but even like you're saying like now

it's like they're kind of like people really buy into this mythology of like well we we represent a leader and blah blah blah like they choose the leaders that you get to elect it's it's such nonsense well the aesthetics really bad though i'm just saying the pictures of trump sitting at that fucking massive table with oh it's horrible the little with with baron and it fucking like he's wearing barons wearing bannon barons wearing what bannon i don't know there's a new picture it's trump sitting in that beautiful fucking oh oh oh it's okay yeah it's like it's like baron is like in two robes and like there you know what i mean they're like there's like there's chalices filled with orange juice and it's just like the the life of the elite right and the problem with it is like

he's cutting all these like you know he cut meal he will what the he cut like i don't know three million ten million dollars from me three percent of them thirty percent i don't know the budget but he like the government's no longer well he's his his budget proposal is is really like uh just some of the worst of the worst i mean he wants to massively increase some of the worst things that the government does believe me listen if you i know there's a lot of people talking about how he's gonna cut the budget i would just say look at the number of total spending i bet you it goes up under donald trump i bet you it doesn't go down look like just i mean give it give it like one fiscal year i bet you it goes up he keeps flying to marlago man we have to keep paying for that but he's also

looking for a 54 billion dollar increase to the military budget which is already the biggest military budget in the history it's like how many times we need to be able to blow up the world he's got an attorney general who's doubling down on the war on drugs he's saying that we need a federal federal police coming into chicago so he is he is not reducing authoritarianism in any way and there's a lot of these is why i said at the beginning of the show there's a lot of these like people use the word libertarian that probably are not in the same realm of where i am who are kind of like yeah like whatever with the police and military but just like cut this one regulation for a business i have money invested in like i'm not one of those coat brother libertarians like

that's but so yeah what trump's doing yeah he wants to cut look i like it because it's the revelator sorry no no no go ahead i was just gonna say to be honest i think probably a lot of these programs should be cut but we should be cutting all of them but i i yes and and well i don't know we've got to come i think if we do like voluntary taxes where it's like hey what do you want to pay money like do you want to give money to like meals on wheels social programs or you want to give money to the military where do you want your money to go then i think those programs are going to do really well i try to say this a lot to uh people that that is a very big part of my pitch that i try to say to left-wing look i i try to start just like with a moral proposition of like

who is it morally acceptable to throw in a cage because that's what we're getting at here with the government thing like who do we want to build prisons and throw in there like rapists murderers okay thieves okay now you want to just go to nonviolent crime you want to go to people who won't fund your health care program you're throwing in a cage that i'm not getting on board with so we can fund it i want to fund it um but there there is this kind of like a after that after that point i will say okay just kind of the point you made just look at it from the effect of what would happen right now if you allow them to have this fucking taxation system they're going to continue slaughtering people in the middle east and locking the poorest amongst us in cages and

destroying inner city neighborhoods and all this shit if you take that away they won't be able to do that anymore they won't it's a fact they can't do it without force taxation so then you can get into this but what if we don't cover people's health insurance okay well first of all it's a little bit weird for anyone who's left-wing to be able to make that moral deal okay we'll keep slaughtering these people and imprisoning people but someone's health insurance will get paid well i don't know if that's okay um and then on top of that it's like i don't know maybe with all the money we're saving from this other shit and i don't i don't think people understand man we spend i've seen estimates that say close to a trillion dollars a year on the military industrial

complex yeah i mean the amount of wealth that could be left in this country and created we'd have so many more resources so many more opportunities yeah and and we the idea that poverty poverty could be eliminated as as far as we know at this point in time i love what i i just love the idea of like getting some tax form that's got like even two checkboxes which is like do you want to give your money to the military or social programs right even those two things i think if we started doing that then suddenly you would begin to see like these massive marble libraries appearing oh i i don't think you're wrong well look if you if you look at already look i just want to say i think there's also there's a big problem when we go the government route

with all these things there are major major incentive problems and moral hazards that get created i mean when you when you just come in and say uh so we're going to just on a grand level on a federal level just economically speaking we're going to subsidize unemployment now i know you might you want to call that like an insurance or whatever but you're saying we are going to pay people to not have jobs i mean there are major moral hazards that come along with that if you if you subsidize something you end up getting more of it if you tax something you end up getting less of it it's like an economic rule and and so we tax labor and subsidize unemployment we end up having way more unemployment than than we otherwise would there's like major

major problems to going around they've got to pay off i mean the idea isn't the idea that like we have to pay off the uh we have to pay off the unemployed to not riot like the idea is like if we don't give them food then there's going to be if they can't survive if enough people can't survive there's just going to be a rebellion well okay usually every time i i'm thinking of something when there's a violent rebellion it's usually because there's a an authoritarian government that leaves them no other choice most people don't want to go fight the government violently it gets to a certain point where you're like they're going to kill us or we have to go kill them i i don't think you're going to have that problem unless you have the authoritarian government listen i got it i'm going

to leave you on this one question sure what is some with all this information that you've given us what is some action that we can take starting right now to help move things along in a way where these fucking horrific wars overseas stop the the the the tendrils of the corporations that are now controlling laws what do we do man what's an act is like a conversation is i've had with you it's like quite enlightening but it kind of leaves me with a feeling of like fuck yeah i'm much better at having a good conversation than actually forming a solution i think um i mean look i don't know what i like i said i think we need this kind of cultural awakening and i i don't know exactly how we're gonna get there i i honestly think like from from my perspective and i'm sure a lot of

people here listening disagree with me but i think like what ron paul did was just phenomenal i think more people who can if you can use kind of like the political machine to get to expose the people and wake people up to different ideas i think that's amazing i think um like whatever world you want to live in there's i don't believe in the idea like i believe in free will i don't believe in the idea that there's this predetermined or a predestined you know future that we're moving toward whatever world you want to live in you got to think about what you can do on your level to contribute toward that you know and and whether it's like you know just like being i i just one of the things that really bugs me about left-wing people and believe me there's tons that bug me

about right-wing people so but it's always kind of this advocating that the government do something and now i get to feel morally good about myself and virtue signal because i i'm for universal healthcare i'm for letting immigrants in i'm for all this but really at the end of the day you're just like i'm four billionaires paying for this and and you're like okay well what do you do i mean you know bernie sanders i said the one percent have to pay you're the one percent you're the fucking one percent okay if you look at the world or human history you're the point 0001 percent you know when i say you got to start helping people do you remember when bernie sanders this is something that really bothered me about bernie sanders man because i was like you know a

lot of people i love love bernie sanders me too he i remember and i haven't memorized what he said i think you can actually google it small google bernie sanders small cluster of troops in afghanistan did you see that do you remember that when you said that and i and it was during the time when he's saying like we got to have free college for everybody and he's simultaneously saying we've got to keep a small cluster of troops in afghanistan i remember thinking what does that mean man all the contractors involved with him what is a small cluster of troops to you how many troops are you talking about here and then when you consider the fact that like the military itself is comprised you want to see something fucked up man this is something i got into the other day the marines

are putting out boot camp videos have you seen this yeah so people getting the first day of boot camp getting their head shaved and shit and then when you realize the people who are joining the military many of them are doing that because they don't want to be a cashier in a fucking mcdonald's well they were literally bribed into it i mean we come to them and we bribe the poorest amongst us to go murder poorest in a third world country that's it and then when you realize so now we've got this incredible kind of like slip and slide that leads to the fucking us military we're going through this insane conditioning program to get shipped overseas to transform people in a hamburger meet for billionaires who are making money because from building more bombs and then the thing that

you're talking about man fuck what the thing you're talking about he's supported the f1 fighter program i mean he's he has not been against the military industrial complex yeah it bugged me a lot he that bothered me a lot can i say what i'll say this about uh bernie sanders and to me this this always really stuck with me and summed up might but this was years ago it was back in like uh 2012 maybe ron paul was running and i remember bernie sanders was on hardball with chris mathews and they cut from a uh like a clip of ron paul at a debate and someone had asked him you know they try to always ask the libertarians tough questions but he goes uh he goes well you know in your society a free society what if someone you know decides not to get insurance and then they get on

a motorcycle they have an accident uh are you saying they just have to depend on charity and their friends and family and neighbors and ron paul goes that's what freedom is all about i mean some of us make better decisions some of us make worse decisions that's what insurance is and you can't and um he basically just gives a libertarian answer and they cut back to uh bernie sanders and he goes and bernie sanders like look uh i know ron paul i respect him very much uh this is what they believe libertarians believe if you don't have health insurance you should die you shouldn't get health care and i sit there and i'm sitting there going like oh that's what libertarians believe if you don't have health insurance you should die so bernie sanders has never had a

fucking real job in his life he's been a politician advocating that billionaires go do other things for people's whole life ron paul is a fucking medical doctor who worked in a christian church that never turned anyone away he made a dollar an hour for like several years when he could have made way more money and he actually rolled up his sleeves and did it and then to represent his view as he thinks people should die because he goes hey maybe these bought and paid for pieces of shit aren't actually providing us with good health care they're making their corporate donors rich and it's like this fucked up thing so that's to me what bugs me about the left wing it's like you gotta get past something where you feel like you can just say i'm for the government doing this

and now i'm a moral agent even if you're for the government doing it at least get out there and fucking do something yourself okay so i think the takeaway here is what you said it twice now there's some kind of awakening that needs to happen a personal awakening some some form of self-educated and and just i'm sorry to interject but just what you think i think it maybe it'll be brought on by the fact that a lot of these government programs are collapsing like you know the soviet union didn't necessarily collapse because they had an awakening it collapsed because the the finances were so out of control so maybe that'll lead to an awakening but yeah that's i mean we all know though i mean the way i i i doesn't everyone at this point know that our

government is pretty much run by the corporations more there's some polling to suggest that more than ever more than that yeah and most people know that the drug laws are just another way to make pick for profit prisons make more money yeah so people know that so i think there's evidence in the way that we're moving toward that but no one's doing shit as much more i guess so i see what you're saying there's like a slip may i like what you're saying because it's like it feels like ideas like if we like try to imagine the perfect paradise universe type class a civilization all human beings functioning together and a kind of like as one super organism that is somehow maintaining its individuality and this thing has been reached through a kind of self-awareness and not

a an x and a top down in position just a natural progression into this like i mean it might be helped along with a leader i think humans need leaders you know but it's but it's still kind of like a bottom-up thing but isn't god this is i don't mean to make this to keep going on but isn't that description communism isn't the idea a super organism of a cell of individuals working together isn't that a form of like wouldn't that be like in other words communism not imposed by some dictator communism not imposed but the idea is like somehow we all wake up well look if you're talking about communism to me you're talking about a stateless classless society with no private property i think this is all just kind of a ridiculous delusion that that mark look

say whatever you will about marx i mean he was fundamentally wrong about human nature he predicted the workers of the world would unite and that that that they would unite as workers and fight off the bourgeois and what happened is the workers of the world united under nationalism and slaughtered each other but i mean he was completely wrong about how humans were humans do not work absent of incentives they do not work absent of property they don't work and they're not going to there's going to be different classes naturally speaking there are people who are smarter there are people who achieve more there are people who are just better at certain things is it possible that there's a non-existent like as of yet in other words communism was you know it was emerged well

the big problem for me that communism is kind of this idea that will never will never get to anyway the socialism which is what he advocates we move into or what the natural order is is where you end up with russia uh china and and these aren't things that went like kind of bad but is there some system that doesn't exist yet do you think is it possible that there's some economic social system that some genius just hasn't thought i mean it's it's certainly possible there's something a genius can see that i can't see but i don't see really at the end of the day you can either kind of send there are certain things that are binary and you can either centralize or decentralize and you can either have you know imposed rule or voluntary rule so i don't know

to me i don't think there will be another system i think that if you have uh competition and markets different kind of communities will arise and some will do things better and some will copy things from other people um the the communism again and this is the the other thing i would just say about the bernie sanders i would just be for anybody who wants to you know identify as like a democratic socialist or the word socialist or communist i just i guess what kind of i mean look you had the socialists in in the 20th century the socialists and the national socialists are literally the the worst groups that have ever fucking existed i mean they're like the most evil horrible like at least look into that connection that when this happens and the idea oh well it's

going to be democratic so then it's okay then everything's okay like what why would any of those policies be okay if it was voted on first i mean i i just don't know why you would embrace this where it's true and and you can for anybody who's out there talking about like the scandinavian countries they're not socialist countries they're they rank higher than us on the economic freedom index uh but the that idea that and it gets into what we were saying before when you look at the authoritarian the father and the kid if you project this idea that there will be a dictator of the proletariat who kind of like does good for everybody given you know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and that's i think what we find out more and more with

communism or government in general but you could i mean like there i think that there's a you a libertarian if you were a surgeon like suddenly i gave you the ability to if i could give you the ability to like just download into your brain now you're a surgeon and you you you can like you know how to do it you know how to do open are all forms of surgery and then we're just you and me and a few other people in the neighborhood somebody comes in who needs i don't know a c-section and they don't have any money but she's gonna die aren't you gonna give her the c-section yeah right so you built into you is the impulse you're not gonna be like hey listen i'm gonna give you the c-section yes and in fact even if there's no even if there's no law that says that uh doctors

have developed something through the market called the Hippocratic oath and now they take other oaths or whatever but pretty much every doctor has has sworn an oath to never do that and by the way i this is the thing where people almost project this like thing where if the government wasn't there i remember one of my favorite things ron paul ever said was when they asked him because they really tried to trip him up at the fox news debate in south carolina they go so are you advocating legalizing heroin are you saying heroin is an exercise of liberty and he goes how many people in this room right now are concerned that if the law went away they would start doing heroin how many people here are like oh my god thank god there's a law against that

or i'd start go doing it and he made this part where it's like me yeah well you know listen there are some of us uh but we'll probably do it whether there's a law or not right so it's this idea that doctors if there wasn't a law there will now all of a sudden just watch that person die because that's why they went into medicine of course because of these callous people i got you are willing to just you know let so yeah no i agree with you of course we should we should you want to listen man it just clicked for me because what you're saying is very beautiful it's that human beings are fundamentally going to help if they can't well it's it's that too but there's the flip side to it which is that also power corrupts and corrupts like like we can be good we can be bad

you give us this authority to rule over people and we'll end up being bad but i think when you i think when you say we need the state to make sure people are good you're dehumanizing oh absolutely you're like saying that we're kind of like so fucking flawed and this is why i reject the adult child comparison because you're almost look here's the thing that they don't want to look at you go like okay well if we're so flawed you didn't find a different species to put in government that same but people will say this all the time during like a they'll be like oh i'm you know i support the free market and you're like oh really you think everything can be done for profit like no for profit does not incorporate the market there's non-for-profit activities there's charities

there's all types of things and there's people there's human beings they they work for many different reasons but then you almost go like do you think the politicians lose this like self-interest profit motive like when they go into government they're like well now i'm a benevolent creature i sit above everybody else and i'm just looking to make rules for what's best for society no they're the same fucking person but now they're exercising authority wow you know so that's that's the point i got you it's crazy it's really beautiful i don't think people understand how humanistic and how like it's really interesting and it's look i'll say for me personally for anybody like it took me a while to be convinced of this i was a libertarian way before i was an anarchist

i read about it a lot so i'm i understand where people have their objections or their how would this work their question i try to take on all of it and again if if there is like even when you said like what if someone thinks of a different you know economic system that i'm very open to that there's there's people out there a lot smarter than me who who might figure something else out and if i'm presented with new information i'll be like oh okay maybe that works better it is disgusting to think that the state has gotten in our heads so deeply oh yeah that we think we need them for us to be ethical oh dude can i tell you one one thing on this that i'm just gonna close because i think this is so great tom woods who's like my hero this brilliant historian it's got a

great show the tom woods show out there he made this example and i always use this analogy because it's so brilliant but he goes let's imagine uh because when you're saying the state has this like brainwashed he goes let's imagine uh just for a second that walmart ran all the schools he goes let's say walmart ran all the schools and and they would do your kids had to go it's a rule they force you you got to go to school you got to contribute to it walmart runs the school they get your kids and uh the first thing they have them do when they come in is take a pledge to walmart uh they pledge their allegiance to walmart and then you have uh like all around the school picture are all the pictures of all the first ceo's of walmart and they're like the first they just

these ridiculous lies that we know are bullshit like they go the first walmart ceo never told the lie he chopped down a cherry tree and this is and then if the population came out with like a pro walmart bias would we not sit back and go you know this is kind of fucking sick like this is insane and that's why they want to control the schools who said that who said tom woods brilliant historian god damn it man that is so true that's why they want it oh my fucking and i think that's why more people don't come out questioning the government i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of walmart and to the great walmarts wherever they the fourth he was the the ceo was the great emancipator and then this guy was the great this and ever and then you look back at the history

and you're like oh that guy was a fucking creep that wasn't a great emancipator at all dude i hope if you drive a car it's a fucking early model but they're gonna fucking slam you into a tree what's his name again what was that guy's name michael uh fucking uh god if michael uh is a hasty michael hasty oof man thank you so much man dude thanks so much i've been fucking wanting a podcast with you for a long time about a lot of people being like you guys got to do one together so it's a pleasure man i lot to think about how can people find you uh at comic dave smith on twitter my podcast where i talk about all this stuff is part of the problem and then i do the comedy podcast legion of skanks which you've been on which is a little we don't get quite as deep into it but we

have a lot of fun on that one i love that yeah it's a great it's a great time we have a lot of fun there so just all that stuff comic dave smith dot com cool beautiful thanks so much thanks brother thank you squarespace for sponsoring this episode don't forget to go to squarespace.com use offer code dunk and you'll get 10 off your first order much thanks to you for listening stay tuned this thursday uh we've got a new d t f h with the author of life after life raymond moody who is an expert on the experiences people have when their heart stops fascinating stuff stay tuned if you enjoyed this episode please give us a nice rating on itunes use our amazon link and i'll see you in a few days. Hare Krishna. It's Macy's friends and family get an extra 30

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