Duncan Trussell Family Hour - DTFH_107_RYANROGAN

Episode Date: April 15, 2014

The shrimp parade comes to the DTFH with Joe Rogan and Chris Ryan!

The NTT IndyCar Series. It's human versus machine, against all odds, every single lap. The ones who risk it all, battling not just each other, but the menaces hidden within the most challenging tracks and motor sports. Pushing 240 miles per hour and taking 5 Gs to the neck just for fun. Fractions of a second, lost or gained in every corner, adding up to defeat or victory. Experience the Children's of Alabama Indy Grand Prix this Sunday on NBC and Peacock at 3 o'clock Eastern. Hello, my sweet friends. It is me, Duncan, and you are listening to the Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast. I thank you for climbing out of that great ocean of nothingness that has separated you from me ever since we got blasted out of the white hole.

They call the big bang in connecting via those earbuds you've jammed into your sweet, warm, soft, sticky ear holes. It's a pleasure and a true honor that you're allowing my raspy, lesbian voice to vibrate the tiny little bones right next to your brain. I like being here, safely stuffed into your holes. I can't spend too much time yapping. This podcast clocks in at two and a half hours, so just some quick announcements. First, biggest announcement. May 27th, I will be doing a live Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast from the Hollywood improv. This is the first time I've done a live podcast in Los Angeles. We've got Emil Amos from the Holy Sons flying in to play some music for you guys in the beginning. Unfortunately, it's only a 90-minute

show, so I'd like for him to play for a long time, but he's definitely going to do some songs. Haven't nailed down the guests just yet, but I'm working on some really interesting folks. I wish I could talk about it, but I can't. You can get tickets at DuncanTrussell.com. There's a ticket link there, so that's really exciting. And the improv's a cool place for us to all gather together because there's a big bar that we can all hang out at before and after the show. And there's some cool places in the area too that we could wander to if the improv gets too stuffed with fools. The Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast is brought to you by Sure Design T-shirts. Sure Design T-shirts create some of the sweetest. I don't know if they're sweet. I've never really

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you can order it. You never have to go out anymore. You never have to go to the stores. You can just sit in front of a glowing rectangle, type in what kind of plastic you're looking for. Oh, you want it in an inner tube? No problem. It's here. Do you need hygienic swabs? It's there. What about those embarrassing things? The things you're embarrassed to go to the store and buy, like a necktie. Now you no longer have to go to a public store and get stared at like a weirdo because you're buying a noose with polka dots all over it that you're going to wear to the job you hate. You can go online and order it anonymously. That's a wonderful thing. You know what I just bought from Amazon.com? A Berkey water filter. These are hardcore Alex Jones level water filters

that actually remove the fluoride from the water. At least that's what they say. You can pour LA city water into these things. And as you know, LA city water is 80% cocaine and 20% narcissist tears. It's disgusting, but a Berkey water filter magically transforms this foul tasting substance in the unicorn piss. And if you've ever let a unicorn piss in your mouth, you know it tastes good. So go to dunkintrustle.com and go through our Amazon portal. Every time you do that, they give us a very small percentage of anything you buy and it doesn't cost you anything. But it's a great way for you to help support this podcast while buying plastic and cotton and food. They even have food there. So if you're going to spend your time out in the world, spend

it doing interesting things, going to museums, go to the La Brea Tar Pits, take your dog on a hike, but don't spend your precious human incarnation lost in these hell mazes that we call shops. Getting sneezed on by the children of anti-vaxxers. You can get really sick that way. Okay, this is number three. I can't remember this is number three or four of a series of conversations I've been having with Chris Ryan and Joe Rogan. We just swap. This rotates through our podcasts. I think Chris Ryan has created a page where all of these are listed. If not, I'm sure we'll make one soon. We haven't come up with a name for this thing. It could be Shrimp Parade. It could be Old Men in the Snow. It doesn't really need a name, I guess. But if you like these conversations, you can find

more by going over to chrisryanphd.com or the tangentially speaking part of the Farrell Audio website or by going to joerogan.net. And now everybody sit back and enjoy the Shrimp Parade with Joe Rogan and Chris Ryan. Are we rolling? God bless you all, sweet angels of the internet. We have gathered together again for another epic episode of Shrimp Parade, which is what we call it when it lands on my podcast, the Dunkin Trussell Family Hour. I'm here with Chris Ryan, the legend from the podcast Tangentially Speaking, and of course the author of the number one book on romance and Keeping Your Marriage Together, Sex at Dawn. And of course, Joe Rogan, host of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, legendary comedian, host of the UFC, and a hunter now who has, we

just went shooting guns. I'm still a little giddy. He's got a fucking, I don't know what that is, man, but that's an air cannon. What gun is that, Joe? Every time you pull the trigger, it creates the same kind of concussion that if you throw a grenade. It's a seven millimeter Remington Ultramag. It's a very high velocity, long range rifle. It's a rifle that you'd shoot something with confidence 200 plus yards away. It's insane that it's so loud. I mean, it's like one of those old dudes there at a pacemaker, it would disrupt it. No, dudes get used to it. It creates shock waves. You feel it in your brain. Well, it's something, it's very powerful. It's a serious, serious rifle. It's not something to

be joked around with. If you want to cut any of the real sounds into this, I recorded on the range, some of you are shooting. Oh, really? Yeah, I was talking with Duncan when you were shooting. So if you, I don't know if you want to add real real world sounds, because he's, you're not, I don't think you're intentionally underplaying it, but it's like the first time you shot it, it's shocking. It's like something's gone wrong. It sounds like a meteor impact. I was telling you, I felt the breeze on my face every time you shot it. The first couple of times I just thought, oh, there's a little breeze and I could feel like my hair move and stuff. And then I was like, well, no, that's that gun. And I felt every time you shot, there was like, it was like the breath of a lover.

That's cool. That's what an assassin says, right after he blasts somebody. Breath of a lover. Well, it's, it's a gun that would allow you to hunt pretty much any large game species, whether it's an elk or, you know, a large moose or something. Do you think it could go through body armor? I don't know. It's a good question. It would have to be, it would probably depend on what kind of bullets you'd have to probably use the legal bullets. You'd have to use some sort of steel covered steel jacketed bullet. It probably it would be like a like getting hit by a car. It doesn't matter if you're wearing body armor. It would break your ribs. Oh, yeah, I would definitely

hurt and internal damage. You know who was a sniper speaking of snipers Dr. Ruth Westheimer. No shit. You know that little sex lady who was this letterman. She was a sniper in World War Two. Oh my god. She was in the army as a sniper. Yeah. Was she for the Germans? Must have been for the Russians. For the Polish. I thought she was German. I don't know. I'm sure people are googling Dr. Ruth Westheimer Russian. Dr. Ruth was a Nazi sniper. I hope I'm not full of shit. Every time I'm on these podcasts with you guys, if I come out with some bullshit, people send me emails. You're full of shit. Well, luckily we have a computer whatever it was. I feel like I would know if Dr. Ruth was a sniper. Good. Let's Google it preemptively.

Dr. Ruth was a sniper. Snopes.com. Dr. Ruth a sniper. Partially true. Diminutive Dr. Ruth Westheimer at four foot seven inches is the nation's most well known sex doctor, though you wouldn't suspect it from her grandmotherly appearance. Dr. Ruth blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The whole thing about her, her, you know, her background, her military career was cut short when she was seriously injured. Her legs were almost ripped off. It says my legs were almost ripped off on my 20th birthday in 1948 in Jerusalem from a cannonball shrapnel, which exploded in the students residence where I was living. Three other students were killed instantly and many more were wounded. The metal pierced both my legs and there was blood everywhere. A cannonball from Jordan

had smashed through the window. I was thrown 20 feet. The strangest thing was that all I could think about was whether there might be some blood on the brand new shoes that I had just gotten for my birthday. There's a woman and amazingly there wasn't even a drop on them, which is all I cared about in some sort of some kind of strange denial. Well, that's what the mind does. The mind tries to minimize shit like that and to pick out the least terrible thing and just to keep it so you can keep it together. Wow, that's so so crazy. It's I think it's one of the reasons why people so easily accept war in this day and age, the people that haven't experienced it, because we don't have it over here, because we don't have those stories. You know, those stories like a

daily thing over here, people would be scrambling to stop all this military conflict. They'd be trying to be saying like there's got to be better ways than this. Bring the war back home. You ever heard that before? That's the saying of the weather underground. You watch that documentary on the weather underground. No, I didn't. So the weather underground was this militant organization back in the 60s during the Vietnam War that had as their slogan, bring the war back home. And they started blowing shit up in the United States. Government buildings, they started blowing up government buildings to show people what it looks like when things get blown up in the United States so that maybe it would raise people's awareness of how violent, terrible war is.

Great documentary. These were crazy motherfuckers and Obama is friends with one of them and got in trouble for being friends with one of them. But he was a college professor, right? Yeah, a college professor. But they would ride in vans on the way to plant explosives underneath government buildings and have orgies in the vans. So like on the way to to plant explosives in a building, you're going to explode. You're fucking in a van. Oh my god. That's how hardcore they were. I think danger makes people horny. Probably right. I experienced this in hospitals when I was working in these hospitals in Spain. I think just being in the presence of death creates an urgent life force within people, which is, I mean, I have to disagree a little bit, I think,

with the idea that the presence of war, the proximity of war makes it makes it apparently revulsive to people. I'm sure that's true because of the suffering. But if you look around the world, what it tends to do is make people angry and more war like, you know, so it's like, look what happened 9 11 boom, like suddenly we're in two wars and we're attacking shit all over the place. I think when it gets closer, it makes us lash out violently and can make us really dangerous. That's interesting. But Israelis are not known as being like really violent people. In fact, they're known as being like they have a very party atmosphere over there. They like to party. Like as far as like Israeli citizens, like the Israelis that I've met that come like my friend

Shuki was a kickboxing instructor out here at Majiro gym. And he's from Israel. Shuki's a great guy, just this just like the best example of like a vibrant Israeli man, just very like family oriented and loving and hugging everybody and just a really warm guy. And I went over his house for dinner once. And his wife breaks out the bongos and they start playing bongo music and dancing around. And the kids dancing and he's dancing and it's legit. They're like, we're just really being friendly and open. And I said, well, I go, man, I go, you guys are so free. I said, like, why is is everybody like this in Israel? Like, what's this? He goes, everybody over there because life could end in any moment. So you're like party, party, party, party, party, everybody party,

all the time party. I was like, really? He's like, all the time party, all the time party. And he would like hug you. Like this dude was a he was a unique cat. Yeah, that's beautiful, man. It's such a damn shame that for people to live like that, they have to be like what you're saying and some close proximity to death either either real or perceived. But it's it's a strange thing that the closer you get to that boundary, the more you love life. This guy on top of that was also a high level kickboxing trainer. He was a fighter. And then he became a trainer and worked with these like really big time heavyweight guys. Like he worked with this guy, Stan Longinitas, who kicked so hard, you really break guys legs. Like he broke Dennis Alexio's leg with a leg kick

like seconds into the fight, just a devastating one was this this was in the probably I want to say the 80s. Okay, the late 80s, early 90s. But Shuki, when he was trained, this guy, he needs to get a hip replacement, because this guy would kick him so hard that it really it blew his hip out. Jesus, he would hold the pads for this guy, hold this leg shield. And the dude kicks so hard that that side like he has to get a hip replacement. So so much damage to his hip, just from eating kicks from this fucking guy. That's how scary he was. You know what's really annoying? What's super annoying? You have people like that who you're talking about vibrant connected people who are living life, who have made the decision that they're going to actualize themselves and be in

the moment. And and it sounds so beautiful. Then the people that are the real demons in the world are the ones who feel like they've got plenty of time. And they look at you when you're acting like that living like that being like that, right, like something's wrong with you. Like they need to intervene that you're malfunctioning. Like what the fuck are you doing, man? You've got to calm down. Yeah, you need to step in and and stop all this happiness. Yeah, yeah, they they don't like it. It's really weird. And you know, right away when you're around one of them, because it feels like suddenly you've been in a nice hot air balloon at some nice altitude and the hot air balloon drops like 20 feet or 30 feet. And then they also feel like this self righteous indignation

where they're allowed to impose this on you. Yeah, they're allowed to impose all this shitty management of their thoughts on you. And they'll say something like, Hey, I'm just being real, like why they're doing it. And they're imposing this really douchey, like just annoying, life sucking vibe to everything that's around them. Yeah. And that is such a terrible thing to have happen when you when you end up around that. And you're suddenly this, you know, Chris, Ryan, you talk about this beautiful time in the past where humans were hunter gatherers and wandered. Even if it's not real or even if we're not sure what it is, let's imagine it at its ultimate place, which is just human beings are completely connected to the inhalation and the exhalation of the

universe. They're in the rhythm of everything. They're just part of the flow in the flow, just being sustained by what's around them. And not even sensing that that's going to go away because they're part of the earth and the earth feeds them just like they eventually feed the earth. Well, you could still have some kind of feeling like that. Now you can still have that feeling. You just don't have the same landscape around you, but you can still allow yourself that sense of, I'm going to be fine. I know I'm going to be fine. I can feel it inside. I'm going to be fine. The way that I die is going to be fine, no matter how terrible or how easy it is. And everything that happens before that's going to be fine. But then you get around these motherfuckers,

and they don't think everything's going to be fine. They think you're going to get some awful things going to happen to you. You know, like they really, and they feel like some awful things going to happen to them too. They're walking through heaven like somebody in a mine field and you get around them and their poison can get into your head a little bit if you're not careful. Definitely get into your head. You have to be on guard. Yeah. How do you do that though? Because man, sometimes when I get around people like that, I will walk away and then for a couple of days be thinking about what they're saying and be like, Oh, fuck, Jesus Christ, man. Maybe they're right. Maybe they're fucking right. Maybe we're maybe we're being monitored all that maybe

we're, you know, they're paranoia can infect you a little bit. What are, how do you fight that? Do you guys have tricks to like sage your brain? I think that is always going to be something that comes up when you're dealing with the range of humans from positive to negative. You're always going to run into extreme examples of people that are just like glowingly radiant, like my friend Shuki, who's just a glowing guy. Like he had this life energy. You wanted to be around them. This is always going to be people like that. And then there's always going to be people that no matter what, there's something wrong. No matter what, they'll find something to bitch about. And a lot of times they feel like they're being deep while they're doing it, which is hilarious,

you know, because they're using big words and like being very descriptive. They feel like somehow or another, their intention is deep to just be, you know, like completely douchey and negative. Have you guys talking about me? No, this is all this is all a big setup, isn't it? Yeah, because I mean, I'm famous. I don't know if you guys know this, but I'm famous as the naysayer and the doom and gloomer on this podcast. Dude, that's all bullshit. You know, you, you are a very optimistic guy. You're just smart. You're smart and Duncan and I were retarded. And we have ridiculous ideas that will beat into the ground. But I'm talking about, we're not talking about you in any stretch of the form. If you ever ended up at the beach

with somebody who starts talking about taxes. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. You're at the beach. Waves are rolling in. You're looking into infinity. Kites are in the sky. Children are laughing in the distance. And you look over and they're like, man, fuck, you know, I'm working on my tax returns right now. It's like, you're working on your tax returns right now. We're at the beach. Where are your files? You know, you know what kills me? You're at a restaurant with someone or you're at home, whatever, and you're sitting down to some really nice food and you start eating and they start talking about some other food they ate. You know, I had this salmon once and it was so perfectly crunchy. And you're like,

I'm eating this really nice kale and you know, for something and you're talking about salmon that you had one time. Imagine having sex with someone and they're talking about how great their ex-boyfriend was. Exactly. He just knew how to make me come so good. He used to fucking hate my pussy the perfect amount of time. Not so much that I didn't respect him, but yeah. But it's all in the same family. It's all in the same family. This is why they're used to be etiquette. You know, there would be, people would have the sense to know in certain environments that's not the place where you like, it's just the same as flatulence, isn't it? It's like some people have psychic gas. They can't help it. They have to expel every once in a while a nice fucking cloud. I'm not talking about

like apocalyptic ideas, Chris Ryan. I'm talking about bringing it down. Bring negative Nancy's. Yeah. What you're saying is a great way to describe it, though, dude. A psychic flatulence. Because it's all like flatulence depends on your diet. Your psychic diet. What you bring in, what you allow in your mind, what you pursue, the directions in which you take your thoughts. And it also accumulates and then is expelled. There's a, I think that happens with some people. Well, maybe the people you're talking about don't let it accumulate. Some people just have a little like those little like when you're walking and you've got a fart and like 17 farts come out. They just, they constantly just do these little like I'm scared. I'm scared.

I'm scared. I'm scared. They say in all these different ways, you know, I'm scared. I'm scared. I think I have enough money for it. I don't know if I'm there. I think I'm gonna be all right. I don't know. I've been feeling a little weirdly. I think I've been feeling like a little sick lately. How are you feeling? Is there pollen in the air lately? It's just this bloop, bloop, bloop. But really all they're saying is I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared. Am I gonna be okay? Am I gonna be okay? I don't know if I'm okay. Do people actually like me? Are you sure they like me? Does everybody really like me? And that gets to what I heard when you were saying that. What I hear is someone who's afraid. Someone who's looking for help. That's why they keep talking

about their problems. They're looking for help. They're looking for you to give them something for you to offer. You know, and so they're terrified because they don't have community. And of course, they're behaving this way. So they're never going to have community because people want to get away from them. So it's a cycle. So there's also the reality of everyone's journey, not starting at an equal and ideal point. And then like, say if we're playing Candyland, if we're all playing Candyland, we, the three of us, like sort of emotionally and spiritually, we're at a certain level of the game. We've had enough of these bizarre back and forth life experiences and then honest conversations with friends like this, like these conversations that we have, honest

conversations with friends about all the various aspects of life to the point where I get your opinion, which I trust and respect and your opinion, which I trust and respect. And I toss them in there with my ideas. And it gives me a much better sense of what the world is all about. It's one of the cool things about having smart friends is like smart friends help shape and expand your point of view and your worldview and your vision. And some of us don't have that luxury. Some of us are stuck with a bunch of shitheads. You're surrounded by shitheads. You're born into a shithead family and you're like, God damn it. And it's so hard to get out of that groove. Whereas you were in that groove growing up, I was in that groove growing up. Our lives weren't ideal. But I

think in that lack of ideal is where a lot of the passion comes or where a lot of the curiosity comes. We have this strong need to live a life different than the life that you were sort of like born into. And I think that's the case with a lot of people. I think we have to really respect that when we talk about like people being idiots. And they are idiots for sure. But damn, we could have been way worse off. Well, no, you're right. And that's compassionate and using the term idiot is a term of convenience. I don't mean everybody wants. I've been an idiot for sure. And I will continue to be and people like everyone goes through fate idiot phases anyway, we're all cycled through it anyway. And you're supposed to see people you're supposed to see behind the

fear because behind the fear is apparently love or a light or a expansiveness or the thing that connects that person to everyone else. And the Bodhisattva or even a mildly spiritual person will be a person who recognizes like instead of thinking as I often might think, this guy is a fucking bummer, man. I don't want to be around it. I just want to go home. I want to be there with my dog who's very positive around nature. You know what I mean? But it's like you just in the same way if you're on someone who's got BO, you're going to start thinking like, Oh, God, I can't wait to get a breath of fresh air. But the what you're saying is really cool because you jump behind all that and you think, Okay, here's a person who's afraid. And then you think what you're saying,

which is like, they're afraid for a reason. They had some kind of shitty upbringing or some awful thing happened or a series of terrible coincidences happened that has made them like that. And then you make the decision. I'm going to leave them at the bar because they're fucking annoying. I left one girl at the bar very early on in my career when I wasn't so good at leaving girls at the bar. But it was such an extreme example. Like I was like, I've made some terrible choices when it came to relationships just based on I thought, Well, this is this bitch is crazy. This might be fun. I've made those choices. I made those choices in my 20s for sure. But I went out with this one girl. And we went out one night and met her at a comedy club and she was real friendly and

seemed real normal and just a nice girl, you know, working in LA and I forget what she did. You know, forget where her job was, but something involved in show business. And then the next day I saw her at the same place and she was smashed. I mean, smashed like walking sideways, falling over, dropping glasses, spilling things. And I was like, Wow, like what is this? Like, like this isn't just like a little drunk. Like this is like either she got drugged or this is like a normal thing. Did you sleep with her that night? No, how dare you? How dare you? No, but let's hear some of the real mistakes, not the ones you missed. But that was that was a beautiful one. That was a beautiful one. Because I just said that's it. I'll be it. I'll check please. Yeah,

like one day in, right? Yeah, that's a question like what I mean, you know, I love listening to Ram Dass and Jack Cornfield and they've set this water, they set the bar really high because they're, you know, adamant about the idea that all of us are ultimately just love. And the thing that's around it is an illusion. And if you can see through that into the love, then the people around you will start to change if you can really do it. They're not saying fake it. They're not saying look at some annoying shithead with those fake goo goo new age crystal gazing eyes like, Oh, you are wonderful and I see it. They're saying develop work on yourself enough so that you actually can see it because you can see it. Apparently, if you if you if you

spend enough time, meditate, I don't know how you do it, but it's like an invisible thing, which is in everyone. And that is their true identity, which is apparently love and that love can enhance and change the vibration of all the people around them. So even if you date and a crazy bitch does coke at work and likes to fuck her friends, whatever, whatever, you know, so she comes home drunk and, you know, she curbed your fucking wheel when she parked in your parking spot. Whatever, man, just be love. Just be love. Also, whatever she ran your ATM car through the fucking roof and you've got no money left. They're going to repossess your car because this crazy bitch has been stealing your money. Well, that's the question. This is like a big question that gets

summed up in hippie circles as who's going to wash the dishes. Somebody's got to deal with these basic problems in a utopian society. Somebody's got to deal with the fact that some people aren't going to respond to love the guy in locked up where I saw who's like, you know, covered in his own shit and throwing his jizz at the guards through that one little crack that they pushed food in. And he went to the grocery store in the mid eighties and like gunned down 17 your citizens. You could stare at him with gaga eyes all day long. And the moment he got out of there, you would be some dead meat. Yeah. What do you do, Chris? What do I do? I don't know that guy. But but I know that a lot of what you're talking about, you know, comes up in psychology and

psychiatry. Obviously, my wife's a psychiatrist. And she worked for many years with people who like would scare the fuck out of any of us. I mean, people who drown their babies in the bathtub, people killed their parents, knife them at night, you know, like she worked with criminally insane people as well as non criminally insane people. And she's amazing. I mean, she's really, she's a very interesting person. The first time I went in to work with her when early in our relationship, she was working in this high security mental hospital. And it was like going into like, you know, get smart, you know, like the series of locked doors, double locking, you know, and we went in there. And the first thing I saw was like one floor of the cuckoo's nest,

right? Just people wandering around zoned out and whatever. And the first thing I see walking in the door is this woman probably in her mid fifties wearing like a short nightgown on her back with her hands and her feet in the air, like, you know, like doing a, I don't know, like a crab, you know, on her back. And with the nightgown hiked up, you can see her old crazy pussy. You can see her. What a great quote. You can see her old crazy pussy. And Cassie just looks at her. Cassie's the doctor. The mouth of a toothless cloud. It was toothless, let me tell you. That might have been one tooth. I think I saw one tooth. But Cassie just laughed her ass off at this woman. This is the opposite of what I thought.

It's like, you're the doctor and the woman sees Cassie and she gets this big smile. And Cassie just laughs and she's like, get off the floor, you crazy old lady. And such her way of dealing with crazy people is to laugh with them. Right. And it's hilarious. It's puts them so at ease and establishes rapport. She just cracks up. She uses it as a tool. It's such a beautiful thing to see, you know. I mean, I always talk about how psychiatrists or people who work in that area, they're like lifeguards, you know. And most lifeguards, what they do is they say, oh, you got a problem and they throw you a life preserver and wish you luck in the form of a pill of some sort, right? Cassie jumps in the water.

She's in there with them. She's half crazy yourself. It's a really she's more of a shaman. She's a shaman who went to med school. What is the difference? That's fascinating occupation. What? Yeah, you know, it's a soul doctor is what psychiatrists literally means. Wow. Doctor of the soul. So they're like our shaman. So part of her the best ones are and that's why sorry to interrupt you, Joe, but to follow that through something that's really interesting is that you guys know this how psych the first people who used LSD LSD was originally marketed to psychiatrists psychotomimetic as a way for psychiatrists to experience psychosis that would then make them better doctors. That was the idea the early 60s when Santos was in late 50s early 60s. It was

that's how it was marketed. Wow. And that now that's a shamanic tradition because in the shamanic societies it's the shaman who generally takes the mushrooms or the piety or whatever they're using or the ayahuasca to go to the upper and lower worlds to seek the the the source of your problem your curse or your illness or whatever is happening to you. It's normally the doctor who takes the drug not the patient. Could you imagine living in a society like pre western civilization society that was a shamanistic society based on like whatever ayahuasca or use of mushrooms or whatever sacrament they chose but to be in like an incredibly primitive society like that that's tripping balls all the time and like literally generally actually traveling to the spirit world

on a regular basis and having these these incredible psychedelic hallucinatory whatever you want to call them experiences that sort of flavor the way they look at the material world that we're stuck in in this vibration but they're in it all the time and they're also in it with no internet right no machinery you know they're living off the land because we what's weird is what you're describing is that that is here in the sense that right now at this moment you can't even count how many people are hallucinating right now right you know god knows how many people just in a 20 mile radius of this place are hallucinating I can definitely name one I'm not really hallucinating but there are like there are there are like most likely people are

tripping within a few miles with here you had a trip reporter yeah like a little thing you can look on your phone and it would light up where someone's tripping balls all over the city it's like like grinder for trippers or that thing that's that thing that tweets uh earthquakes you know so like it actually detects when how hard people are tripping so every once in a while it pops up like at 11.9 oh did you imagine tripping was like a video game where you could trip and literally go to like the next level and it would be like registered you would like show it on a high score on a screen yeah like you brought a fucking watch with you while you were tripping yeah like this special google watch that monitors the trip yeah like oh my god he's tripping at an eight oh my

god they well they believe that albert hoffman the first time he discovered alice date was the only time a person never hit 10 i believe that too that poor bastard the first trip he doesn't know what's happening and he's riding his bike home oh the poor guy and he didn't understand why people were taking lsd recreationally at first because he had taken such a huge dose the first time he's like this is not something you do for fun because he was in such a limbo state for a while well he got it transferred through his skin yeah he got yeah he breathed it i think i think he i think he probably we should probably look i think there was i think he was working with spores wasn't he no no he was working with uh as i understand the story he was working sandos laboratories

was trying to induce uterine contractions using uh variants of lysergic acid and so he they synthesized lsd 25 and he remembered how it made it was it had some strange effect on mice apparently like animals on it acted really weird and then after they had already shelved it he went back and visited it for some reason on intuition or impulse or thinking about how weird it made the mice act he took it out as i understand it he spilled some on his hand though maybe he did take a little bit himself i don't know i have the story right here this is what happened while researching lysergic acid derivatives hoffman first synthesized lsd on november 16th of 1938 his main intention of the synthesis was to obtain a respiratory and circulatory stimulant an anapolep anapleptic

leptic analeptic an analeptic with no side effects on the uterus in analogy to nick nickathamed necathamed n-i-k-e-t-h-a-m-i-d-e which was also diethylamide by introducing this functional group to the lysergic acid so what happened was he accidentally absorbed a small quantity through his fingertips and fortuitously discovered its powerful effect so it was through his fingertips but it's important to note when they say small quantity with the micrograms the best way i've ever heard described mckenna said that the power of lsd and relationship to these the actual size of it is like a single and dismantling the empire state building in a matter yeah that's a good way to describe it and and and what the fuck that's a great way to well it's

shocking what it does to you when you consider that the how tiny tiny the doses that you take and then an hour in suddenly you're experiencing this rapturous energy coming through your body and then two hours i mean depending on if you if the lsd is good or not but it is a very interesting thing to think that this kind of utopia that you were talking about earlier where people are actively taking psychedelics and using them as a initiatory uh as part of an initiatory ceremonies and communing with nature making big decisions this very same thing happens to this day only it has to happen in the underground and it has to happen during a terrible prohibition where you can go to jail for it it's like this natural impulse is in us like when you put a dog over the swimming pool

and its little legs start start moving even if it's never it's been in water before it'll still do that because it has built into it this remember swimming it's in its DNA in the same way humans we almost remember this way of being we almost know that this is something that calls to us and so we end up doing it in the united states in secret and then that's the mother of bad trips as people are taking these substances they don't know about the spirit world no one said to them you know in the west we call it going crazy but in every other part of the world it just means that you're connecting with an alternate dimension called the spirit world you know people don't know that they just think i'm losing my fucking mind man i'm seeing things

demons elves holy shit i look in the mirror and i see myself aging and dying you're seeing the truth friend that is what you're doing you're aging you're dying your zillions of personalities exist inside of you and the universe is alive and your mind can't quite accept that so it's breaking it up into all these entities that you're witnessing i think that's what a shaman does he like ant takes a person's fear and then throws it back at them as a flower like look at this it's incredible what your experience and interestingly in those societies excuse me uh someone who's called to shamanize is the term that anthropologists use someone who's called to shamanize is the highest type of shaman the the lower shaman is someone who chooses to be a shaman who just wants to

though the highest form of shaman has no choice in the matter uh normally in late adolescence they start hallucinating they hear voices they they communicate with animals you know however it manifests in the west we call that schizophrenia and schizophrenia tends to hit in late teens early 20s same time period about one percent of people all over the world exhibit symptoms of schizophrenia that break from reality but as duncan says in shamanic societies those people are seen as gifted they're people who can't help but move between worlds so what the society does is they gather around them and support them and help them through the experience of learning to control this power within them so that they're not destroyed by it because the society knows that then

if they help this person get through it and learn to ride this horse then the the society the village will benefit from that power for the rest of his or her life that is absolutely fascinating so there's almost like an evolutionary reason for that kind of behavior that that kind of behavior is what becomes this type of shaman in some certain some circumstances yeah and even beyond that something that's an original idea to stanley who as you guys probably know is a big expert in shamanism he's written lots of books on it he's standing around yeah yeah um uh he talked about how in shamanic societies one of the ways a shaman heals is by uh the same way western doctors heal is using the placebo effect right that's why doctors all have a stethoscope and

wear the white thing and you know it's all activating the placebo effect and uh which you know we consider unreal in some way but it is real because it works so that's real right but in any case that's the main tool that shamanic societies and cures have so stanley's idea is that then in that world where being capacity for belief is uh something that helps you heal because it activates the placebo effect people would have evolved to be more open in that way mentally they would have evolved to believe they would have evolved to to feel the power of ritual and so on and to to thrive on things like mushrooms and hallucinogens that's so fascinating so it's all it's just really the cultural construct of the society as it stands today that we've accepted as being the norm that

that's really the problem for these people is that the the framework for this odd behavior this like shamanic instincts this this ability to live in the forest and merge between this world and the spiritual world on a regular basis especially if they're doing psychedelic drugs they're like in that circumstance could have been a positive thing yes but then to plant it into modern day society you guys got to get on on the bus every day and go to work he's got to do a job he doesn't want to do there's none of the the wild you know the the things that have stimulated whatever gift he has in his odd personality yeah there's no connection to this society he's lucky if he stays out of a mental hospital yeah and then we we drug him you know we we drug him to neutralize

and we lobotomize him yeah exactly you know the only here's here's a thing I'm pretty sure of the only Nobel Prize in medicine that ever went to a Portuguese doctor was for the invention of the lobotomy oh my god Jesus Christ it's a little trivia for those of us with psychiatrists Portuguese wise yeah for the invention of the lobotomy I wanted to I wanted oh sorry go ahead no I was just saying I was thinking god I wanted to to talk about what you were talking about belief they have a wider a higher capacity for belief and I that feels like a western thing to say which is that they didn't experience something real but their belief they can believe in things that aren't real well let's see remember I I mean within the context of what I'm talking about with placebo

where I'm saying it is real I just read this in other words their capacity for belief could be belief in things that are real and even things that are made real by the presence of belief which is how you could describe a placebo but they're they're there when they when they talk about this stuff they don't say well I was healed by a placebo effect they say the shaman contacted the spirit world and he took whatever darkness or however they term it I don't know exactly so but that's a funny thing that we do I do we do which is you take this thing and everything you understand is not a placebo but what you don't understand is a placebo effect if we don't understand why it works you just say well it's a placebo yeah as though but that so it's just

weird how like the in these two different conceptions it's like you have these two paradigms fighting each other and one paradigm is connected to life one paradigm feels like it is completely part of the world and the other paradigm is so distanced from the world that it can't ever say this it can't say anything more than our minds create visions from time to time but they are not real and the reason they say that is they don't have the scopes if all one of these motherfuckers has to have is some hp lovecraft level magical telescope with runes on the side that they can all look through and see interdimensional beings or the spirit world or whatever it is and the thing's real now and then they'll say oh those are the they'll come up with the name of the species this is the

materialistic vision of the universe right if I can't if I can't see how it works then it doesn't exist but what's funny about that is that in medicine which you know in the western medical model which is all materialistic and very scientific of course there are many cases of drugs that work way before and are used clinically widespread practice way before anyone can explain how so it's funny there are like aspirin nobody understood how salicylic acid stopped pain until the 70s right and then the american indians were chewing willow bark that had salicylic acid and it's been used for centuries in western practice but nobody understood how but they tolerate it because it works right so they're but they don't talk about it it's a funny

it's a really interesting area there's a there's an essay called the the myth of mechanism that talks specifically about that that's cool you know I was just reading rereading about this the this tribe called the pinaha in the upper amazon super fascinating people anyone who wants to read about them there's a great article written by a friend of mine john colapinto that was in the new yorker and I know it's available online it's called the interpreter the interpreter colapinto and it's about this guy daniel everett who went to live in the upper amazon with this completely stone age tribe you know very little contact not uncontacted but very little contact nobody spoke their language it's such a bizarre language but he went there as a missionary a

christian missionary with his wife and kids and he but he's also a linguist and he lived with them for 26 years divorced his wife and gave up his christian belief structure for theirs he basically went native uh and they're fascinating people they've got no numbers they are not they their sense of time is like if you're talking about something that you personally didn't experience or wasn't experienced by someone that you know personally they don't listen they don't engage so no history no history and also no future beyond like the immediate future right no numbers and no numbers it's like one some many is the is the only distinctions they make also no directions no no physical directions it's toward the mountains toward the river toward this you know it's all no color words

they say it's the color of uh you know this berry so he's basically fucking cavemen well but he's over there banging a caveman check well let's see okay the thing about cavemen is that we assume when you say caveman yeah well the sex sex is an interesting thing actually in this society I'm sure very good they got no numbers there's no colors there's no 69 yeah how do they how do they work out you owe me one yeah but it's funny with one of these women well of course he did I don't know like being on avatar you might be thinking of of another great book called Into the Heart about the guy who goes and lives with the Yanomami I'm not thinking about a book I'm thinking about if I am staying 23 years with any group of people yeah I'm gonna have sex with someone yeah he was definitely having

sex I don't think he says it immediately I mean openly but it must have been awesome why would he not say that's the first thing everyone's thinking because he's because he's a linguist at MIT writing scientific papers yes I did yes I did have sex with several of them it was great you know what people know how to fuck that's the first line nobody fucks like a cave person and I say cave person we'll all do respect we'll all do respect I don't I'm not judging nothing I'm just saying basically that's all my ancestors in the fucking caveman days and you're living like that today fairly cave people are from Jersey is that what that was no that's um that's the irony of an idiot mocking a cave person with a beautiful lifestyle yeah I say cave person in the most

demeaning way hey I really mean is primitive tribe you know in southern Spain there are thousands of people who live in caves yeah I'm sure beautiful beautiful caves they cut them into the the walls but I I think that's badass I think that there is a kind of dark voodoo in the using the term placebo and and getting into that mechanistic language because I think it can cut you off from a direct experience with uh with with nature and and um and that that connection is what causes healing I think that's a that connection is what causes the thing people call the placebo effect but really it's just somebody reconnecting to what they really are that moment where you like connect you connect and you realize how incredibly beautiful the world is and how alive

it is like every piece of the world everything the wood the carpet everyone you meet the wind you're in a living being and when you really experience that god damn it makes you feel good yeah it's hard to experience that with concrete that's one of the real issues with our lives there there's a difference in the way you feel when you walk through it like a Seattle rainforest yes there's a difference in you feel like when we were up there looking for Bigfoot yes dude I swear that I felt those those natural living things around me I swear when you're walking through this incredible rainforest and everything's vibrant green and this fucking moss everywhere and it feels alive you've been to Alaska right yes yeah did you get

that feeling up there when I was in Alaska I felt like I felt like the land was vibrating there was a very slight vibration and just by being there I was getting energized it's almost like the weight of cities weighs down the land and stops the vibration see I think I think that well two things this is in Hinduism there's the three modes of material nature have you heard of this the goons the mode of ignorance the mode of passion and the mode of goodness and it's a different parts of the day are assigned to these different modes and different geographies are assigned in the mode so the city is considered to be in the mode of passion nature is in the mode of goodness certain foods are in the mode of passion spicy food food that basically they the way they

put it is if it tastes bad and makes you feel bad mode of ignorance so that's like late night Carl's Jr. or something you know but he's not gonna like no offense Carl's Jr. but if like you're eating there after one o'clock and the guy's serving you has like been snorting math for three hours and the fries are it's you eat them you taste it you know it's bad but you eat it because you're drunk and hungry you're gonna feel bad mode of ignorance mode of passion makes you feel good but you're gonna feel like shit later so that's alcohol so that's 20 minutes earlier on your way to Carl's Jr. exactly then mode of goodness it is quite often maybe it doesn't taste so great kale but it's gonna make you feel good later so that's how they that's how they break

it down so the city is in the mode of passion and some places in the cities are in the mode of ignorance but I like to believe that if you're skilled enough you can take any external stimulus and transform it so that it gives you not transform it but filter it in a way that you get that same feeling you get in the pacific northwest might be a complete naive rationalization of living in the city but what do you guys think don't you think it's more we can decide how to interpret the reality around us to bring varying degrees of bliss and pleasure well there's a positive aspect to the city and the positive aspect for us is that all our friends are here that's a big one it's a huge one that there's a massive collection of like-minded people you know

when we talk about all the guys that we do stand up with everyone I know they all my favorite human beings all live within 30 miles right you know I mean I have friends in the east coast I have friends all over the place but my real you know core group of friends we're all here community yeah there's a massive amount of community here for us but the environment of the the artificial environment is something that you're always going okay I guess all right like when you're driving on the highway I firmly believe that when you're surrounded by buildings to the left and buildings to the right and signs and I think that your brain is interpreting all this stuff is unfortunate but it is what it is and you know you sort of make these distinctions you see all these gross buildings

and you're like oh yeah okay what is it you don't get that when you're driving through Mount Rainier when you're driving up Mount Rainier what you get is whoa wow oh my god like we were driving and when Duncan and I were headed up there the sun was just peeking through the clouds so it had been raining for days and it would light up these corridors like there was like hills and valleys and the sun would come down through these clouds and light up these do filled corridors and it was just like god damn like that is art everywhere you look nature's art in that environment you see life yeah you see the moss growing on the rocks you see it's just everywhere is life and in an urban environment everywhere you look is dead yeah you know it's stopped and the road

kill so I sympathize with what you're saying we should you know be we should be wise enough or enlightened enough to reframe things in the ways that make sense for us but I do think that it's very difficult to be healthy if you're eating Carl's Jr every day if that's all you're getting I mean there is a difference between good input and poor quality input and and it matters and yes there is a level of of being able to to decide but fuck it's hard man and and I think there are like there are elements to traffic for example traffic to me brings me to an aggressive angry place just because of the nature of it I'm I'm alert I'm worried I'm like I'm vigilant there's danger there's aggression there are people I don't know they're doing things that are unpredictable and

weird and aggressive and it's like especially in LA like it's a real aggressive place here the reason I brought up the P Naha which relates to all this is he said they're the happiest people he'd ever seen and and there's some psychologists who came to do testing like cognitive testing and linguistic testing and they agreed that they're like the happiest people ever and the way they measured it was they would just videotape them for a few hours in normal daily routine and count how much of the time they were laughing or smiling or fucking wow yeah and what he said was which relates back to the your complaining friend in the bar is that you know in thinking about this for 20 some years that he lived there like what why are they happy they have nothing you know they're

their kids die they they get infections there's no doctor there's nothing they die they you know people disappear in the jungle like they're in the presence of death right definitely no bullshitting no denial and he said but the reason that they are happy is that they feel they can handle whatever life throws at them they laugh when they get something they laugh when they don't get something they laugh when their house falls down in a rainstorm they laugh when they don't catch any fish they laugh when they do catch fish they're just like hey fuck it man we know our world and in our world you never know what's coming at you right and a lot of it's bullshit a lot of it's bureaucracy and phone calls and do I have obama care I don't you but before that right before that abstractions you

know it's it's no it's thinking you know what's gonna happen yeah if you want to be miserable and you can handle it know what's gonna happen all you gotta do is think you know what's gonna happen if you think you know what's gonna happen whatever it is whether it's in a book or a movie and it proves to be correct generally you're gonna be disappointed when you watch a movie in two minutes and you're like uh clearly this person's in a dream and they're gonna wake up and then there are them I get the whole thing and then that happens at the end you're like god that's shit that's a shit movie I predicted it we like the turns we like the left hooks that you don't expect that's novelty and that is what the universe really is and that is why there's this danger when the

materialists come along acting as though they have figured all of this out to the point where when you do say something like no you know I'm pretty sure that I had direct contact with an external being that is the source that all this stuff came from and radiates life as an effect existence and I'm part of it and I think that all everything is his love they'll just be like no you didn't you want it you're projecting that man don't you have an imagination your imagination concocted all this yeah there's all sorts of mechanisms by the way there's no free will okay well good night there's no free will all right right you I love when they say well our brains aren't wired for this or that yeah you know yeah our brains are not wired at all they're no

fucking brains there's no wires in your brain maybe not yours bro I got wires in my brain bro hairs in your brain I got hair wire fucking garbage in there some childhood bone spurs I just think it's dangerous man I think it's a dangerous thing and when I and I think that um that that when people get too much like that they seem all withered and fucked up yeah that's for sure they seem like it's affecting them yeah wears on you man well fucking wears on you I mean think about getting back to shamanic societies what's really interesting to me about shamanic societies is that people as they age get closer to mystery because you're initiated into higher levels of mystery and knowledge as you get older it's the kids who don't know anything right it's

the kids who are away from from knowledge and mystery in our society we grow away from mystery when you're kid you have the tooth fairy and santa claus and and fairies and imagination is cool and then as you get older you're supposed to tamp that down and then eventually put out the fire completely and get real yes and it's the exact opposite trajectory and then another you know 180 degree difference between shamanic societies and ours is that in shamanic societies hallucinogens are seen without exception as far as I know as the greatest gift of the gods they're the best they're the best thing there they don't have movies you know they don't have iTunes like if you want to experience something what do you do you trip your balls off that's how

you experience things and the purity of the imagination in that circumstance when you're not I mean if you're talking about like these uh pre-western civilizations a long time ago whenever they invented it I mean what they have to do essentially essentially they had an event uh a vat right something a pot an iron pot to boil water or somebody had to get them one yeah from then it was on from then they figured out how to put all that shit together right but you know if you could go back and live amongst live amongst a society like that pre-western intervention and experience that life that's shamanic life of dancing in and out of hallucinations and dealing with the like almost immediate loss of loved ones like it's just constant

it's gonna happen I mean there's jaguars around you you're living in the swamp there's toxic spiders and there's a Brazilian wandering spider in the rainforest that kills you by giving you an unstoppable heart on it gives you a heart on that's so devastating that even if you survive which most people don't because it's the most toxic spider your your dick is going to be broken forever how does that happen through evolution chris ryan how does the spider like is it what's the reaction the the chemical reaction to your body is the same thing as nitric acts nitric uh nitric oxide yeah which is uh what's that shit that they put like nos like nitric oxide nitric ox yeah not nitrous no not nitrous which is like what you put your car gives you a

nitrous nitrous oxide yeah nitrous oxide is laughing yeah and they put it in cars yeah it's nitrous boost like you hit a button like you want to hit the nitrous and it'll like jump you from 500 horsepower say to like 750 really instantaneously that'd be so cool if there was a nitrous oxide tube connected to your mouth in the car too so both happen you're fucking some blue velvet kind of denis hopper look at things faster oh my god you feel like you're doing you fucking fuck you feel like you're doing warp speed on the enterprise it'd be amazing do you remember the early days of the darwin awards i don't know if they still do that yeah remember that was like big on the internet yeah i remember some of those stories got snoped out though yeah well i don't

know if this is one of them but remember the one where the guy who works at like a military place out in the west somewhere in the desert and he steals a rocket engine and bolts it on top of his i think that one got snoped out that's too bad because that was a fine one man snopes man attaches rocket to car right all right here's one that didn't get snipped out uh if you guys hear about this dude this is a while ago now this was a guy in the probably early 90s who always wanted to be a pilot but he had bad eyesight and he couldn't you know whatever so he's living with his mother somewhere in LA you guys might have been here when this happened and he just he gets this idea to get some helium balloons and tie them to a lawn chair oh yeah remember that guy

totally and he goes on his ideas just to like he's got a sandwich and a six pack and a little pellet gun and his idea is just he's tied to the truck and he's just gonna go up to the end of the rope and you know hover above the neighborhood for a couple hours yeah and he's hanging on he's eating his sandwich and he's like cool this worked really great so then it's a really calm day there's no wind so he's just gonna float around the neighborhood a little bit and then he could just hit the the balloons with his pellet gun and he'll lose his altitude so anyway he he unties the thing and goes to like 12,000 feet like immediately and all he could do is hold on and the gun falls out no he's still got the gun but he's like holy shit oh my god and it finally levels out at about

I don't know nine to 12,000 feet and and he's over LA and they see him on the radar the airport radar but they think it's a herd a herd a flock of you know birds or something and so he starts floating out over the Pacific and the sun's you didn't hear about this what I'd have it's the sun starting to go down and it's fucking cold as shit anyway right and the air the oxygen is low in it and this Korean Airlines jet is coming into land at LAX and the pilot sees the dude and he calls it in like there's a guy out here in a lawn chair waving a gun around oh my god I remember this story so they send a coast guard helicopter out to get the guy yeah but it's like one of those double rotor things and it gets above him but the rotors blow him away and then destabilize everything so

then they have to send a second one out and they've got a sniper on the helicopter they get right above him and they lower a rope and a guy goes down and grabs him because once you take the dude off then of course the launcher is going to go straight up into the rotors so they've got a sniper on board as soon as they take the dude off the lawn chair boom boom boom boom shoot all the balloons oh my god this sounds like a great level of the funniest coolest video game ever someone's got to make this into a video game it so does it sounds so fun it so does so he survived so he survived and they brought okay but here check this out there's a story about this in the New Yorker as well I don't remember what it's called but you can google it and find it I'm sure

written by George Plimpton actually and it's something about the man who flew or the man who wanted to fly but anyway they bring him back and by the time he gets they arrest him because he was in restricted airspace and you know didn't have a license or whatever and but he was sort of joking about it because there are all these reporters and you know why did you do it and you know I just wanted to fly whatever three years later he committed suicide hmm well once you've been once you've experienced that level of freedom once you've experienced that coming back to the world you shoot yourself why don't you get more balloons do it again yeah this time get a better plan fuckface you know they have actual balloons man you know you

just save up and buy a real one buy a real one yes don't just don't kill yourself yeah just how about that just stick around so that we can enjoy your legend as a hero why did you have to like because that is the hero that is a hero that's a hero that is you at your most stoned with access to like all these firearms firearms and helium balloons oh you're not listening to anyone by the way to no calculations everything was fine till he decided to untie the rope and float around the neighborhood you know one day he couldn't just stop he's laying on the lawn chair yeah that one day and he's like wait a minute I had a rope and a bunch of helium balloons I'm flying and then that when he decided to cut the rope that was the hero's journey that's the

beginning of the hero's journey where he's like I'm cutting the umbilicus I'm separating myself from mother earth and blam blast off it's essentially a more exciting version of the movie big it is except wasn't that it big with the guy with the guy flew up in the uh the balloons and birds took him there I don't know wasn't it was what the club was it called maybe it was up what was it up up you're thinking of tarmanx yeah yeah yeah oh big that's right yeah yeah carmageddon was false the rocket thing story to the car no false didn't happen it's a complete fabrication crazy internet story wily coyote styling yeah there's uh no evidence ever that someone took a uh a jet engine and tied it to a car and flew into a fucking rocket or flew

into a cliff I wonder if that happened the who are the guy the the the magician pen and teller they have that show or no it's not pen and teller it's the other guys who do debunking bullshit oh you know I'm talking about pen and teller do the bullshit show yeah I'm mixing them up it's these other two misbusters they do more like you know could you do this I think they did a rocket engine or a jet engine thing though I remember seeing something like tied to a car yeah maybe they were testing that particular story they um they say that the story first began making the rounds on the internet in 1990 and the car was supposedly and then the incident changed moved to a different spot first it was New Mexico and the car with a Plymouth Roadrunner by 1994 the car had transformed

itself to a Chevy Impala and the venue is now California see the the story just mutates with people like I mean think about we have access to this laptop in Google and we'll still bullshit our way through a story I heard you know it's just our nature it's fun to do well yeah it is it does suck when those stories get eliminated but it's good did you see the picture of the light on Mars did you see that that's floating around reddit what is it it's just a well I don't know yet but they took a picture of what appears to be a source of light coming out of the ground on Mars and you know there's like on reddit there's a million theories about it and all of them pretty boring it's a cosmic ray or it's a it's a something's wrong with the film or something like that but it's

pretty interesting classic curiosity rover captures mysterious bright light on Mars it's very underwhelming the photo is just like this little white thing on the screen yeah until you think that looks like a fucking flashbulb like there's like you know who knows what that is couldn't that just be some some software glitch you know maybe it's Tom Cruise maybe Tom Cruise is on he's on Mars imagine we got the Mars and Tom Cruise is already there do you guys know that Tom Cruise is a is a licensed stunt pilot I know a woman who flew with him oh my god yeah in one of those uh what are they called biplanes with open cockpit you know so she's in front and he's behind her and she was like he was doing loops and shit and she said and it occurred to me that if I puked

I'd be puking in Tom Cruise's face because it would blow back yeah yeah Mary Roach who's a great writer I wish somebody if somebody could get on Mars and just put a statue up that said humans please stop killing each other I bet there'd be work I bet that would create world peace if it was like they wouldn't let us see it you don't think they let us see no they'd censor the transmission you really think they would yeah I think that would be something that would be very difficult to hold back if there was a someone on another planet had a sign for us boy that would be real hard but see that's the thing it wouldn't be a sign can't believe you morons can even read this I can't believe you got here yeah you idiots got here right congratulations clean up your own

mess yeah clean up your yard but see I mean it relates back to what we were saying earlier you know maybe maybe distantly but you know I was saying that that in all these semantic societies hallucinogens are considered the greatest gift of the gods yada yada yeah I never finished the thought though which is that in our society you're penalized for a longer time you get caught with 10 hits of acid in most states you get a longer time in prison than for second-degree murder that's right now that what's that say about our society that their can hallucinogens are considered to be so dangerous and worse than murder right and that's really heavy and a lot of its minimum mandatory sentencing what's the fuck I think getting back to what you said those societies

are oriented toward truth and our society is oriented toward lies exactly and so something that brings you into congruence with the truth is considered subversive well marijuana laws and psychedelic laws all highlight the fact that our laws are not current with current science and with current thinking they're not we were like prisoners of the ignorant past like we have this this momentum that's been going on since the nixon administration decided to clamp down on all psychedelics and they made everything illegal even things that weren't even psychoactive those are on the schedule one less they just shut down everything and I think the echoes of that still reverberate through our culture there's still a lot of people and I know it because I was one of them at one

point in time that thought that all drugs are for losers all drugs of people trying to escape reality yeah I completely bought into that and I think that's real common I think that is as much of an issue as anything and that's the issue that I think is getting cured by the internet I think the internet is changing the perception of so many different aspects of our culture but a really big one is drugs a really big one is what what drugs are what drugs mean and the idea of a drug free society being a complete and total force yeah it doesn't exist it's never gonna exist and Dr. Carl Hart I had him on my podcast he's a addiction specialist and I found out about him from Chris because Chris had him on his show too and Carl he says it is clear as day it's like you

wouldn't want to live in a society that doesn't have any drugs like drugs include all sorts of things that help you when you you're sick drugs surgery you don't have surgery without drugs coffee alcohol like anything caffeine like come on you're talking crazy one is Dennis McKenna says you take away the drugs you got no brain yeah exactly the brain is drugs we are drugs we are chemically yeah we were a chemical burning engine essentially you know and the chemicals that run the engine that is the human brain are human neurotransmitters which are also on the schedule one list right you know I mean the fucking things that are inside your own brain are illegal it's banning but I consider it exactly the same impulse that causes people to ban books

it's a form of pharmacological book banning because the difference between psychedelics and the drugs that we take for headaches and for all the ailments that humans get is that psychedelics give you a transmission they give you a download and I think the reason that they're illegal or a big part of the reason that they're illegal is the same reason the internet is illegal in North Korea because if you get on the internet too long in North Korea you're going to be like oh god are you kidding this is bullshit this is a bunch of shit are you kidding the same thing happens here man it's like the moment you start taking psychedelics you do have to start digesting a lot of information really fast it's quite insane the first thing you think when you're in a euphoric lsd state

looking out at the world looking at people seeing like the hidden parts of themselves they don't want to show anybody recognizing like you could just see so clearly on acid you can really like you see micro gestures you can really yeah the first thing that comes to your head is wait why is this elite this is illegal why would this even be illegal what is it about this experience that is doing anything more than making me feel more alive and connected to the world a little crazy no doubt i'm not saying it's like every time you take acid you're going to go through a down a nice a water slide filled with warm water every once in a while you go through a water slide that takes you deep deep into the bowels of hell but it's still at the other side of that

colors are brighter your world seems more alive and you feel like you've been given a secret you guys have that experience where toward the end of a trip like i mean i assume you guys do this as well like when i took acid i would go in nature always right as i'd go in the woods or at least walking around in cemeteries or parks or whatever get toward nature but then at the end you're coming back to your dorm room or your apartment or whatever and you decide you're not tripping that hard anymore and you decide to stop in at a bar and have a drink with some friends and you see drunk people and they look like they're like drugged animals about to topple over and they've got this really like look on their face even the ones who aren't like that drunk you

know they just all look so like 50 IQ points shaved right off the top semi-conscious monsters it's hunter s Thompson and fear and loathing in Las Vegas when he goes to the what the hotel as it he goes to everyone turns into a lizard circus not yeah it's not it's not they turn you're right yeah that circus circus he goes there and describe everyone has turned into a lizard he's seeing what they really are yeah but you know yeah it will do that when you see people drunk and you're on a psychedelic it shows you right away how you know what else bad acting try watching a movie yeah bad acting when you're on pot like especially the pot yeah when you've eaten pot bad acting becomes offensive yeah when people like sending it in yeah just phoning it in you're

like oh my god like I'll never forget I was high as just as bad as high as you could be and still be out in public from edibles and we went to see the Hulk and it was so bad like Eric Banna like there was this one scene where he was just like so clearly acting in this in this movie that I was like oh my god I can't even watch this I was starting to freak out I was like it's just so obvious the person who was saying those words wasn't thinking about those words and that's something that if I didn't you know I mean it's a goddamn movie about a guy who turns into the Hulk I mean what the fuck am I looking for right what kind of realism am I looking for it's ridiculous but that moment was just so attitude and I've watched it since and I can't

pick up what the fuck I saw like I watched it since and I go yeah I mean it looks fairly uninspired but I mean look at the lines he's getting you know hey uh I don't want to have to do this again but I might turn green you know like it's like ridiculous shit but to to me on marijuana it was just glaring yeah yeah I've had the opposite experience as well I remember in college I went to this uh I drop in on these friends and they're like hey we're gonna go see the the Jimi Hendrix experience right and I had always thought Jimi Hendrix sort of sucked I knew I was like 18 you know whatever and I just like Hendrix yeah it's loud it's it's like chaotic and we went I was like all right whatever I'll go with you and we go to the auditorium and they and they had electric

daiquiris and I didn't know electric daiquiris had acid in them I just thought that was the name of a cocktail so I'm drinking these electric daiquiris one or two not a lot right um but and then this Jimi Hendrix movie comes on and I start like going whoa I'm I'm tripping you know you get that body thing and like the weird buzzing in your head and I said to somebody like what is their acid they're like yeah they're electric daiquiris dude like oh shit okay you gotta be really specific you fucking assholes well they they had reason to think I knew I probably sold them the acid but anyway not true not true I never sold it we're just making shit up here we're just a couple of guys having or sell it but anyway this Hendrix thing comes on and I was like whoa I get it I

fucking get it now I see he's a genius and you know obviously still I still think he is Phil Hartman used to tell me uh that when uh he was a young guy and he was uh living in LA he got a chance at one point in time to hold the speakers up for Jimi Hendrix and Jimi Hendrix was a Philka play guitar so Jimi Hendrix was like this you know the ultimate god to him and he was on stage like literally like Phil was at his feet holding the speaker to make sure the speaker didn't fall over into the crowd and Hendrix is right there like where you are just and he said it was just like the most magical moment of his life like as a young aspiring musician like he you know he'd like to play music and to see Hendrix live in the flesh crazy feet away from you playing

guitar he said it was the most insane surreal and then you know the guy was dead just a few years later uh man it's so cool you know it's so beautiful um it's that's the thing we have access to this beautiful universe around us it's so beautiful but sometimes the way that you have to access it or your entry way in or these drugs that are prohibited by the government and that is so it's such a perplexing thing that eventually you just have to stop thinking about it because what are you gonna I mean thinking about it is pointless you either come to the conclusion that bureaucracy is completely tied to tourniquet around one very vibrant powerful bit of connective tissue that connects us to the mind of everything or you have to think Jesus do we actually exist in

some kind of satanic empire where they're intentionally trying to keep us from recognizing that we live in heaven you know what I think it is I think quite honestly that it's all the people that are trying to keep us from having these experiences haven't experienced them themselves and having no knowledge no real direct knowledge or understanding of what we're really talking about to them it's just all hogwash nonsense and craziness and all you're doing is somehow or another keeping them from either having control or making profit and in that sense like the last thing they want to do is get everybody to tune in and drop out you know I mean this is like that's not going to happen again we saw what happened there this is not a good deal like stop

right there and why is it I mean it's like it's a bad analogy but someone who's not funny at all at all and they come up to you and they dictate what your subject matter is going to be what you get to say on stage why you get to say it and they tell it to you because they're an expert in comedy like what are you even saying are you what are you fucking crazy and an expert on psychedelics it has to be an expert that tells you that they're illegal right I mean isn't it shouldn't be an expert that tells you this is something that we should protect society from but they're not they're not only are they not experts they're wholly ignorant of the effects of most of these things right when you hear people talking negatively like I had a fucking conversation

Michio Kaku okay who's this brilliant physicist astrophysicist this guy who just has such inspiring talks about space and his the way he describes things just like the sense of awe and wonder that he has for science and innovation is just directly translatable through his words you know it's really exciting guy to watch talk about science right but I talked to him about about mushrooms and I asked him if he believed that it was possible that mushrooms were the reason why human beings evolved from primates I could you know if you ever heard the theory the stone tape theory and I asked him if he's ever done mushrooms and he's like mushrooms give you brain damage like I'm not interested in doing drugs I'm interested in studying reality and but no

they don't give you brain damage and now I have to now I have to think twice about everything you're saying because if you're saying that mushrooms are terrible and there's no way mushrooms give you brain damage why would you speak so clearly about something that we both know you're not an expert in like that's not true right that not only is that not true but that discredits all the things that you said that probably are true all the awesome things that you said about about science and the universe and how do I listen to you when you're talking about things that I know you're full of shit about now I have to like think about everything else that you've said and I have to run it through some other filter is he right about this is he right about that

as soon as you like proclaim to be an expert in something that you clearly brain what brain damage like what fucking brain damage a mushroom has given anybody that's not happening not only it's not happening but when you look at the actual studies like the john hopkins study yeah they're showing that people have had a direct positive benefit that lasted their entire lives from profound psychedelic experiences that they had decades ago so you can't you can't do that that's a bad thing to do it's what you just saw there is superstition it's like I imagine like back in Galileo's time there were probably scientists who actually thought well we shouldn't meddle with that because a demon will come into you and they believed it you know maybe that's

now that demon is drug addiction that demon is brain damage or that demon is any of these other made up effects of psychedelics see that sorry I was just gonna say that that's one of the few areas where if I'm talking to someone at a party or someone you know and this has happened many times to some doctor who you know starts spouting off about how bad hallucinogens are and that's one of the few areas where I will say you know with all due respect to you you have no idea what you're talking about yeah you have to because I mean if it's some other thing if it's some other scientific thing or politics or religion or whatever I let it go but in that case you're actively participating in spreading disinformation that can hurt people that does

hurt people so I'll fucking nail you for it and and you know that's I I mean as far as Michio Kaku goes I would give him a pass in the sense that when he's talking about physics and astro you know whatever his area of expertise is you can probably believe him because he spent his life studying that whereas probably leave him with drugs he just like bought the party line and never really looked into it you guys saw this thing scientific it is but we do it right I mean you can't study everything down you can't question every premise you know it's right so at least in his area of expertise he probably knows what he's talking about but you guys saw what Sanjay Gupta did right I mean yeah I really respect that guy because he was one of those people and then he

had the balls to turn around and say I was wrong right I'm sorry yeah and made two amazing specials on the benefits of it the medical benefits yeah some of those stories that they showed of kids that started taking medical marijuana and it completely eliminated their seizures yeah and this heartwarming stuff man yeah what if Sanjay Gupta keeps making these documentaries but with harder and harder he's like heroin but it really was a gateway drug where he's like heroin's grace he'll be like a haggard 90 year old in five years heroin cured seizures in his child what would be great is if he discovered all these people that actually did have issue with with drugs and like what they were like hey here's the real issue that we have with oxycontins here's the real here's

a real hardcore documentary on heroin users let's find out how many functional heroin users there are here's a real hardcore documentary on alcoholism let's see rampant alcoholism in the flesh and see if this isn't something that we might want to curb as a society if he started doing that with all drugs like treat them all like the same way that dr. heart would treat them right treat them all based on data rationally right taste on bit I really admire was his wife and kid here with him no no no oh my god he came with another scientist but uh his his like his his ideal you know being that what he's trying to do is just relay the data he's not worried about you know what don't you think this is going to make kids want to do drugs like because that's the trick question right

whenever you talk about marijuana or talk about anything oh you're what about the kids think about the kids that listen to you I've had people say that to me hey bro you know stop talking about weed man think about all the kids that are listening what all the kids that are going to smoke pot and figure out this life's a joke oh we don't want that happening you know and I'm not saying the kids should smoke weed but guess what if they do that's not the worst thing in the world worry about them killing each other all right worrying about them hurting each other worried about sexual assaults worry about all the inevitabilities of you know becoming an adolescence and hormones and poor management of those hormones and people who did a shitty job of making them into adults

and worry about all that but don't worry about marijuana Jesus fucking christ really right and of all the shit to worry about that's not the thing it's just not and when a guy like sanjay gupta comes out with not one but two documentaries highlighting all these benefits of it and realize it's like this whole thing is a scam like I didn't know it I really bought into it and so did so did before I ever started smoking pot I thought it was for losers and this guy's got the power to make documentaries about it right big ones on cnn yeah that we need more of those people there needs to be more sanjay guptas there needs to be people who are and they are doing it like the maps people are doing it and we don't have to keep going on it feels like this is like chewed gum

everyone knows that psychedelics are prohibited for stupid reasons but it it's it's the spirit behind it that I'm more interested I'm I'm interested in the prohibition but I'm more interested in the spirit behind the prohibition I'm interested in the people who say if they see that you have a gun at your house they're like scared they think something's gone wrong with you or the people who if you're not if you don't have kids past a certain age or if you're not married they look at you with pity and sympathy like oh god what have you done to your life are you in that age now yeah I'm definitely in that age man and and I'm I'm I'm generally pretty happy and I'm not going to say I'm not lonely I get lonely sometimes but I love that feeling of

loneliness or rather if I had to pick between the feelings of occasional loneliness and sitting in my house alone with my dog and there's incense burning in video games and I can write whenever I want and I'm making tea or getting stoned or doing whatever I want that feeling of loneliness I'll take that anytime over that feeling of dark suffocating claustrophobia that you get in the middle or end of a relationship that's falling apart and is the words that feeling of just that's it's the same feeling that compels a fox to chew its leg off it's rather than being the trap it's that stale feeling of there's no way out I'm I'm in I'm stuck in a fucking cell with the walls a million miles thick I have these little genetic handcuffs attaching me to this woman who now hates

me and who are I now dislike that I that that that reminds me of like getting stuck in a black hole isn't those are the worst moments in life the the middle of the breakups oh god it's terrible everyone's everyone's gotten nuts everyone's acting shitty to each other love is fled and by the way I think that people who are who are in that place and are dealing with that sense of claustrophobia you have to recognize that you don't have that you no one's ever truly trapped there are there 99% of the time their way is out and if you can't leave because of responsibility or ethics then I think you could shift your thinking around at least and maybe find some freedom there but I just what does that even mean well I think that you've got to like

find expansiveness immediately like instead of thinking I'm going to change the outcome I'm gonna change I'm gonna change it's like we don't we try to stop focusing on outcomes and turn our focus towards causes so instead of getting caught up in the fruit that's already growing off of the tree let's look at what is causing the tree to grow the fruit and that's what you go into so that's what I mean you have to you start so you have to take that person's personality on as a project you well you have to take your own you work on yourself that's the idea you find some expansiveness wherever the like if I feel bummed out like let me like let's see today I took my dog to walk for a walk at the park and if I don't meditate in the morning or if I'm not like discipline

then my mind can go crazy and then I can start getting irritable and bummed out and shitty so like I'm at a I'm at a coffee shop and unfairly judging everyone like I like I'm good at it I'm good at it telling when I'm doing it I used to not I used to not even know I was doing it I used to just think that was the status quo but now if I've judged more than two people in like an hour period then I know oh you're the asshole in the room no one's an asshole your asshole aura is so powerful that it has encompassed everyone around you and you're witnessing your own shittiness and every there's a reflection in everybody else so that's what I mean by like shifting if I do that it doesn't make me feel better right I still

feel anxious and irritable and shitty but I'm no longer buying into the story that my mind's telling me which is like look at that fucking shit out of the look at that fucking what is why is this bitch spending so much time testing out lotions like why would that even bother me why doesn't bother you because because a cunt lives inside of me because I know that's so funny because there's a and I know it's there and like where'd it come from the cunt in me yes the cunt in me it's 15 years ago on a hunting trip I think that I've said this before on your podcast but I think humans are a hive of personalities that we're not one personality but we're a collective of personalities that lives they all live inside of us and these different personalities come out according to different

things you know man I've in my old age what I found is that if I'm not exercising regularly I'll be more of an asshole or and if I'm not drinking enough water I'll be more of an asshole and if I'm not eating right I'll be more of an asshole and underneath that I'm sure there's plenty of psychological reasons why I might have like defense mechanisms that are I might have habitual defense mechanisms if I'm feeling stressed out but if I just start taking care of myself usually a lot of the other stuff goes away yeah because you feel good I mean there's research showing that if you force yourself to smile you'll feel happier yeah the stupidest it sounds again back to placebo effect or whatever we want to call it your body associates the state of

smiling with feeling good so if you smile you can induce feeling good you trick your body right yes feeling better because you smile exactly you tune the radio man and the way you tune the radio is by walking a certain way breathing a certain way this is what jack cornfield talks about which is that the moment you hit that place where you're in a challenging situation where you're around someone who's a dick or you're in a you're grumpy because you haven't had your coffee or whatever the fucks happen or you're stressed out because you have shit to do that you that you don't want to do or whatever it is stop in that place and breathe simple just like take a big deep breath in the midst of before you do anything that's all simple stuff like that really works wonders right

as far as and also not and you've got to admit that there are parts of yourself that are shitty like what there you don't you have to recognize that there are parts of yourself that are not selfless and that those parts are going to emerge from time to time and you breathe through it you don't this is what jack cornfield says i've been listening to him lately but he says bow to it so when it comes to you the next time you're in line you're pissed off whoever's in the line you know like how sometimes for no reason at all assholes will go through their fucking purses for 25 minutes trying to pick out the exact change to pay for something you know that thing where it's like what the fuck are you doing give them cash put that in the goddamn corn star later you'll

witch let's move i'm hungry let's go so do you ever think like when you're walking down the street or whatever do you ever think that there are people who who purposely create obstructions because they get pleasure from being in the way yes no i think that too and i don't know if that's me being a dick or if that's true but i mean people stop for a conversation at the top of an escalator yes what the fuck are you doing yeah they do it to sort of let you know they don't give a fuck it's part of it it's a passive aggressive yes thing yeah and they want you to ask them to move like they see you and then they can get like oh i have a narcissistic trick for dealing with those people i think to myself maybe they're angels pretending to be people slowing me down

because they know if i keep on this track too long i'm gonna end up like in a freak accident i think there's an anvil falling from the sky i don't think like they're angels but i do think like there's reasons for like like traffic stops and you know like lane changes that don't make any sense when all the lanes are forced to merge if you got their head the traffic would be going much faster and then this collision would have occurred and that makes you feel a little better i love these mind tricks man i think that i think that like the the idea is get in control of your mind as much as you can so when the mind starts spitting out stupid things like god this fucking bitch and her goddamn change look at her slowing everything down you can't stop that that's gonna

that's gonna happen that's just the part of your mind that's habituated you absorb that from some person a long time ago you can't stop it but you can turn it around so that it doesn't give you ulcers or it doesn't make your fists clench that's where you start working or breathing or just trying to be there in the moment with it you won't fix it all at once but it's goddamn better than doing what most people do which is get on their fucking phones and like check their goddamn instagram and rage you know numb it out numb it out everyone numbs it out when you see people working at their phones you it's the same thing as when you see ostriches sticking their hand in the set head in the sand it's the same phenomena isn't this along the lines of what we've been talking about a lot

lately though um that you you almost have to have something that sucks so they depreciate something it's awesome you almost have to have these ridiculous examples of just the bizarre nature of humanity in order to appreciate beauty in order to appreciate cool friends in order to appreciate fun actually be in the moment when you're having fun like you to really appreciate cool moments and cool conversations and cool people you almost have to know a slew of cunts just so that you can differentiate between what's amazing what's not it's like it flowers it you can't appreciate hot unless you experience cold like it's the best shower i've ever taken was in montana after no shower for a week we talked about that last time when your podcast greatest shower i've ever taken

in my life why is it because i'd had the opposite for so long i appreciated him in an intense way to the to this day i could feel that shower but i took one this morning and i fucking feel that one because that one's normal it's california it's 80 degrees outside already so i took a shower whatever there's a big god damn difference between that montana shower and this shower montana showers they're fine you know getting back to breaking up with people you guys are talking about yeah i i mean i don't i don't want to sound holier than that or whatever but i i haven't had that kind of a breakup might have been worse in a sense because every woman i've broken up with i i still loved her and she still loves me you know wow that's deep i've had that that's a rough one it's rough

that's a rough one you think about them sometimes well i'm still friends with them yeah you know with both of the women i'm thinking of it and it's like uh yeah it hurts a lot more but i think we're talking about distractions and i think what a lot of people do at the end of relationships is it's so painful it's so painful because you're looking at someone you've shared potentially years of your life with yeah and you've loved and who's loved you and you're saying okay this is ending right and so the anger is the anesthesia the anger is to deaden the pain in a way because that way you can blame her and she blames you and you're all pissed off and being pissed off enables you to ignore the sadness which hurts more than the anger sometimes superficial sometimes

chicks are fucking withdrawing money from your bank account and talking shit about you behind your back all right let's not get crazy sometimes bitches are deflating your tires you go out there five minutes after her in the morning and your fucking tires are flat and her car's gone dude you did make some bad decisions that didn't happen to me i'm just painting a scenario that experience i think it's the the it's like the greatest and most awful thing when you realize that a person has passed beyond this event horizon and that there's no coming there's no real going back sure you could do like what we were talking about earlier which is like from time to time you end up humping somebody that you've broken up with and some drunken moment and there's all i mean i

i can remember my ages ago one of my like we were saying uh at the shooting range as men will talk about fucking in between shooting guns we were we were talking about uh how breakup sex can be so incredible yeah and i can remember you know at one point many years ago a girl that i had split up with you're smiling it was it was no this is one of the greatest weirdest sexual moments ever when we got back together temporarily i remember she's giving me a blowjob and crying at this like she's crying while she's giving me head and like i want to cry too because it's like we used to have like really great sex but now we know there's no repairing this like we're just doing this out of our own like desire to feel that thing that was so special but you can't get it back it's way gone way down the

river of time so we're just going to this like physical as an attempt to get back to that place we're using this physical reminder of that incredible moment oh it's so hot it's so awesome and so painful and beautiful and and and and wonderful though that's the thing man every this is this is the thing in buddhism they talk about attraction and aversion and these two things are considered hindrances attraction and aversion are both hindrances so when you're when you're when there's something you're afraid of being around or something that you that you can't accept or don't want to be near traffic for example traffic i am traffic averse i hate getting into traffic when i'm in traffic i try to imagine i'm not in traffic my mind goes elsewhere i just want to

get the fuck off the interstate and get where i'm going so all those stretches of time that i'm in traffic these are stretches where i'm not really there because i just want to avoid it as much as i can that's aversion the other side of that is if i'm driving because i want to go see this girl that i'm just hooking up with her that i'm really into now that i'm attracted look at you you're getting all i'm going it's intense i'm going over there now i'm bouncy so now i've now i've got this little piece of the universe that i've decided is special and another piece of the universe that i've decided is shit and both of these are considered hindrances because what i've done is i've taken the infinite phenomena that i exist within and i've put a grid around it and there's

parts of the grid that are great parts of the grid that are bad and the whole time i'm either running to get to one part of the grid or trying to get off another part of the grid and the the idea is that you can actually love everything the entire grid the traffic the breakup sex the cancer the winning winning the lottery losing everything like what you're saying what these people are doing you can you can actually everything that comes to you is you you can experience it as though you were having this beautiful conversation with the most intelligent entity in the universe which is what we're surrounded by and part of i love that idea i think that's a great way to shift things around you can be fascinated and grateful at all times yes yes yes

i believe it can't do it but i like to believe it might be bullshit because god damn i hate traffic and i have enjoyed breakup sex but you know i'm still you know i'm i'm i'm just like the cat following the laser beam myself but um but you're enjoying it and that's a difference you're enjoying this whole experience whatever it is whatever sort of creation dance we're doing we're all interacting with each other changing information talking having experiences together and then creating things on our own individually and together you know there's a there's a book by louis thorough's father his name is paul thorough he's a great writer i saw him on your show yeah a couple months ago his father's like a really big time writer and he uh he wrote a book called

my secret history which is about when he was in the peace corps in africa it sort of goes from his childhood in boston through when he wrote his first big bestselling book his first book was a huge bestseller it's called the the great railway bazaar i think it's a he's on the train that goes i think uh the trans uh what's it called that that the famous the orion express you know he takes this train anyway he he was in the peace corps in africa he was living in this village where everybody was like super sexual and relaxed and he was banging his students and you know he's tells this whole story of his life very interesting but i remember at one point he says the great the the great gift that i have is when i look back on my life at the times when i was

happy i knew i was happy and most people they look back and they didn't know it at the time that's huge man yeah that's huge and trying to enjoy the moment before you've reached your goals is also very difficult for people yes the moment you sit down to eat pause you're about to eat smell it you know like yeah i really enjoy the experience don't start talking to me about that fucking salmon don't talk to me about britney spears god damn it i don't give a fuck of her and kind of kevin fed her liner back together i don't care i don't either i don't want to hear about it are they back together so i'm gonna have to leave pretty soon i don't want to i don't want to shut this down no it's cool no we should wrap it up culver city at six thirty what time do i have

to leave we always um safely you need about 45 minutes all right so so i got another 20 we can okay in real i just wanted to i wanted to say when you were talking about the shower and how awesome that is after a camping trip uh the thing i've been thinking about lately is the moment like of death and how maybe this whole thing is a camping trip for god where it's that exact same feeling times 700 billion where the moment like you're finally it's dying and then exactly that moment you remember oh oh i created this is me i'm actually like i'm actually i'm actually the creator of all things and i got lost in this tiny little bit of my creation for a second and wow now i can do anything again this is amazing alan watts talks about this where god eventually

after being able to do everything for an infinite amount of time would once in a while be like i know what it's like when i forget i'm god and then that's what we are you know well you know these peanut hot people i was talking about earlier that's deep interesting things he says is that they believe they don't think dreams aren't real they think that dreaming and being awake are just two different ways of seeing that are both equally relevant and and real what do you think about that if you take alpha brain i believe it take alpha brain and go to sleep you do have weird dreams oh my god any form of acetylcholine take choline and then go to sleep you'll have the most durable vivid dreams really oh man if you're a fan of bizarre dreams you ever do lucid dreaming i have

not practiced it like a discipline where i sat out and tried to do it but maybe for a few weeks for a few weeks i did a very very rudimentary thing that i saw in that movie what the bleep do we know where this guy was talking about lucid dreaming and here's a way to induce a lucid state while dreaming you should make a habit of going through every doorway and knocking on the doorway as you walk through and go is this real or am i dreaming and touch it is this real or am i dreaming and make it a thing that you do every time you go through a door if you can make it a thing you do it'll become programmed into your mind and once it becomes programmed into your mind it'll manifest itself in your dreams so in the middle of my dream i go is this real or am i dreaming my hand

was going right through the wall and i was going oh shit i'm dreaming you did it wow this is crazy looking at the backs of your hands is another one you've done this you're a lucid dreamer i've done it yeah i don't do it regularly i've done it too man i did it too i read this book uh when i was in high school i got really into journeys out of the body by robert minn row which is this guy who figured out how to do astral projection which is just lucid dreaming i think but man it's it's it is fucking scary man it's scary when you wake up in a dream sometimes you it's almost like if you ever had that fear when you wake up in a dream chris uh no i like waking up in dreams i i but you reminded me when you talked about this you're reminding me of maybe this will like be a distraction

but i i was uh another one of these situations where i took acid i was in manhattan i was a college student and my professor and i went to manhattan for the weekend and i had some acid and he was like you know he knew new york and he was like well let's go let's oh let's look at a film oh they're louise boon well films let's take some acid and go to a boon well film right you guys ever seen a boon well film no boon well was a friend of salvador dollies and he was one of the founders of surrealism i didn't know this right so we take some acid and we go up near columbia to the cinema and we we're sitting there watching this movie and it's called the discrete charm of the bourgeoisie and it opens with this couple getting ready for a party in a mansion

and they go upstairs and and the minister starts to arrive and some other they're all very upper class people arriving and the the maids are seeing the minister and meanwhile there the couple is almost dressed and then the guy decides he wants to fuck her and she's like oh we can't we can't oh yeah they'll hear us no and so that you see them crawl out the window this is a film from the early 50s i think maybe 40s and then they the next scene is them in the party with all these rich people and the woman's got like grass in her hair because he's been fucking her out and but everybody like ignores that it doesn't talk about it right and they're passing around canapes and all these fancy people and you see the canapes are like a little piece of bread with a bleeding

chunk of like meat with hair on it and they're all eating and the blood's running down their mouth wow it's fucking insane crazy and i'm tripping and i think like i'm losing it right it was like i didn't know i didn't know anything about surrealism and there's a scene in it where the where like in the middle of this story it cuts to this dude in bed with a woman and he wakes up and she says what happened he says oh oh my god i was just dreaming and then the movie continues from there and then it happens again so it's like a dream inside a dream inside a dream life yeah it's that and that is the idea and i like i think every time you gain a realization you are kind of born again like when you get uh when you get something added to your understanding of the universe that transforms the

whole universe that is a death you know and i and it does make sense that the more those things start happening the more your old self starts to die yeah and and we should we should we should welcome death this is the problem in america one of the problems in american society that we've got this forever young attitude yeah and we don't understand that deaths of former selves are necessary to the birth of greater selves yeah and yes exactly the more you try to stop that it's like you can't the more you're trying to to to not operate from where you're actually at that's the problem is you'll realize all these things and then you'll keep acting according to the way you're acting when you hadn't realized all these things that's where you can get really get miserable

the chinese say to know and not change is not to have known wow you're saying if you know then you'll definitely change if you keep acting the way you did before you understood then you don't really understand i think some people understand and keep acting the way that they're they were acting because they're afraid to change because the people they around won't let them change or if they change then they have to get rid of a lot of people in their lives so they have to pretend that they don't understand they have to act dumb it's like sometimes people will have like a older brother that is will like kick the or a dad that'll kick the shit out of them if they act too smart so they have to act dumber than their dad or they have to act dumber than their brother

you know what i'm saying like they have to put on a show of being dumb because if they if like they threaten any of these morons around them the morons will start like abusing them well how many women have to do that in their life how many women have to do that around men when you can't black people yeah you know during slavery well i mean right now but with women today like there's there's certain men will get upset if they get corrected on certain information so a woman has to like cater to a guy oh there's some men they have to cater to the guy's ego where you can't tell him he's wrong about something because you know he's fucking he's a man and men are sometimes dangerous just keep me at the level of dumb i am right now darling please don't tell me anything

well it's the people that feel like being corrected is at a direct affront to their own intelligence it's not that there's some information that we all get wrong occasionally it doesn't make you better or worse right the way it makes you better or worse is how you react to it right the way you're reacting to is the fucking worst case scenario you're getting angry that someone gave you some knowledge you know you're getting angry because it's coming from a woman who's given you that i told you so look and you know you want to hit her because you're fucking crazy douchebag yeah it's nuts it's nuts how how truth of verse people are some are fucking so attached to their ideas yeah it's it's it's really incredibly sad but again you can't really deal with those people

you can only work on yourself that's the point you can only deal with where where how are you like that that's the question find where you are like that and just start dealing with that what what are truths you're not digesting what are you not willing to accept you know a lot of times people don't want to accept they're getting older you know a lot of times people don't want to accept they're aging people don't want to accept that their family is aging people don't want to accept that there's a lot of stuff like that where the moment you just stop resisting and accept it the pain goes away i'm reading a beautiful little book right now called travels with Epicurus and you know Epicurus was the you know Epicureanism is derived from his name right but he was an

ancient Greek philosopher who believed that the highest good was pleasure but pleasure that leads to happiness not pleasure that leads to suffering right and and you know he arrived at this with a very philosophical arguments and discussions but anyway this book is is cool it's an American guy who got to be in his early 70s and he was like all right i'm old you know i look around me and my friends are either dead or they're pretending they never will die he talks about one guy who had testosterone patches and seolus and he's like you know doing everything he can to to rejuvenate himself or whatever and this guy says fuck it i'm gonna go to this island this little Greek island that he'd been to many times throughout his life and i'm gonna hang out there because old people

seem really happy there and i want to figure out why what what is it about being old on this little island hydra in Greece that makes me happy it's beautiful book it's meditations on what is age you know how how what what does it mean to get old and his thing is like fuck if i pass through you know you we're all gonna get to that stage if we survive of like old old like fucked up old right yes and a lot of people go from hey everything's cool i'm working hard i'm too old old it without passing through this period of freedom and real and happiness of just old where it's like hey i'm old i'm too old to die young i don't need to fucking stress about shit i can hang out i could play with my dog and my grandkids or whatever people you know i've seen some shit

he says epicures says that it's not the young who's who's wanderings are full of torment and change that are happy it's the old who have harbored their ships they've brought their ship into the harbor and their happiness is protected and regret regret the regret that you know it's really just the inability to live in the moment yes yeah living in the moment whether you're old or young is essentially the same thing just you are alive right now just maybe your body has some limitations maybe nobody wants to fuck you anymore other than that you're alive right now but i'll tell you this if you're in the moment and you really really connect to the moment and that is the moment i think they would make the moment illegal if they could i think the moment would be

something that you could get arrested for being in too long because it's such a revolutionary place to be in the moment yeah all your troubles vanish and the moment blah the troubles go away the moment you'd go to the left or to the right past or future the moment you think about stuff like that that's where you start getting into gestion the moment you're right there in the fucking moment bam it's beautiful and incredible and and if you're there and you're somebody who maybe isn't getting intimacy from other people but you master being in that place i think you're gonna start getting laid i think you're gonna start i think you're gonna start meeting people that are gonna want to have sex with you and they might not even know why but the reason they want

to have sex with you is because they recognize that you are walking the razor's edge you're on the path you're there and they want that if they're like so many people are lost in the cemetery of the past just filled with all these thoughts of that are just replicas phantoms of things that are long gone so many people sorry okay so many people i think their sexuality is you know this gets back to desire and the buddhist tradition and all that but their society is about wanting to get something from their their sexualities about wanting to get something from someone else right i want to get into her pants i want to get pleasure from her right yeah and i think one of the mistakes that young men often make is that they they get stuck in that way of thinking because

they're so full of testosterone and desire right instead of thinking i i'm just gonna cultivate some shit in me that she's gonna want that they're gonna want let me be the one that they come to with the desire as opposed to me always being the wisdom of a man who's lived a long and fruitful life coming out of your mouth that you're talking to a testosterone jockey who's in his teens who has no business with this fucking dynamic machine that he's been giving that's pump full of jet fuel and a dick that gets okay but some of those do when the fucking breeze cracks through your zipper you're enchanted just riding the school bus different thoughts of mouths and vaginas and tits that you can ejaculate on and hands on your balls while you jerk off under her dress

not just nightmarish scenarios flooding through your mind because they're so intense with the hormonal vibrations to say hey you just need to become someone who people want to have sex with well good luck okay but some of those dudes take that energy and they learn to play guitar yes you're so right so they can get pussy or tell jokes but no no question no question all i did was wait to get old but it worked that's hilarious though you don't have to that's the thing you don't have to wait to get old you don't have to wait to get young either you can do it right now because that's the fountain of youth this is the funny you know this is the story of uh this is the alchemical quest trying to turn lead into gold finding the fountain of youth finding paradise

getting back into the garden of eden and everyone searching for it and then finally realizing that oh shit it's inside of me it's not outside of me it's that realization that it's it's here right now and that's a crazy thing you don't have to be an old or a middle-aged guy who's like taking a bunch of acid to realize that you can be filled with the vigor and testosterone and all of the vibrancy or the estrogen or the whatever your youth is giving you additionally to the present moment you can actually channel that i mean like how old was how old was buddha when he found realization who knows i mean that's just a story well i'll say for the sake of this he was 17 okay well you know i don't believe in buddha i just made it up

i don't believe he's real you don't believe he's real i don't believe he's some magic person that had any answers i think he's uh an ideal you don't think he's a real person i think there was a his there was a historic buddha because they don't say like jesus right they don't there's not like he wasn't like walking in water my my thoughts on almost all historical characters past eczema a thousand years ago is that they're most likely about bullshit you know what that's what the pina ha said this this missionary when he was with them he was trying to tell him about jesus right and they were like did you know jesus and he's like no no he lived a long time ago they said did your father know jesus no no end of conversation 23 years they never they went to and they were like

hey dude we like you you're fine but we don't want to hear anymore about jesus there was a genghis con sure and there was only 1200 that's 1200 ad that's actually not that long there were pharaohs sure so like we know that they're like powerful people who existed a long time ago i like no just my thoughts are just that when you start talking about a historical figure in the the events this historical figure participated in and you're going back to like literally a time before writing or around the time when writing was first created like boy you know that story gets quite sketchy you know when you start talking about uh the the different Sumerian gods that they you know discussed in the Sumerian texts and all the different versions of what happened to their

heroes and what happened to Gilgamesh you know in the epic of Gilgamesh i've just never heard i i've definitely heard people uh say that there was no jesus and the reason they say that is because he appears to be this combination of all these preceding mythologies hercules i've never heard somebody say that there was no historic buddha it's like i i've always just accepted that there was this person like confucius or lau zhu the person who wrote the dadi ching i've just accepted that there is a a historic version of them and it's easier to do because because with buddha there's not a lot of i mean there's the story of his enlightenment but that is just pretty much universally accepted as a flowery metaphor right right right yeah well that's

sort of what i'm saying is that i don't trust what we're talking about siddhartha gautama yeah yeah i think he was a prince what year was he about 2,500 years ago i think and his name is gautama buddha siddhartha gautama spell that s i d h gautama g a u t a m a yes yeah buddha means the awakened one or the enlightened one but if you think about it if the guy really did exist it was a little bit before gingers con it was uh five to sixty three bc to uh 483 b c e yeah i mean there's there's a there's a lot of mythology attached to him but i think that he there was definitely a figure back then it was this kind of super philosopher who boiled everything down to this because it's like in buddhism they don't say listen if you just believe in buddha you will gain

realization it's something you you have to read it you have to actually read the stuff that it's talking about but also it's kind of a moot point in the sense that buddha himself supposedly said don't get hung up on me this isn't about me there are many buddhas there are many teachers unfortunately no written records about what tama have ever been found during his lifetime or several centuries thereafter the gandahar in buddhist texts the oldest surviving buddhist manuscripts reported to have found in or around hada near jalalaba well jalalabad in uh eastern afghanistan and preserved in the british library today was written in the karatosh karastho well k-h-a-r-o-s-t-h-i script and the gandahar in language on 27 birch

bark scrolls from the first century b-c-e to the third century c-e so that should have been well after he was alive and dead huh well i don't know we've got to wrap it up chris ryan i gotta run that's uh fascinating it's interesting stuff though whether he existed or not you know i don't care if he existed or not i don't care if he was a floating unicorn that could swing through trees but as an ideal it's always been something that people have consistently brought up so it lives on whether it was a real person or not maybe even more so well the the noble truth so buddhism are still there the precepts are still there and that's that's that is definitely primary to whoever the person was that said it whether it's one person or a secretive group

of people that made up a person it still came from the human mind and it's still life changing god damn i don't mean to end on some proselytizing awesome no it's an awesome note man we never talked about should we talk about hookers i saw i i got i got an email i saw golden buddhas during one of my t at dmt trips i know infinite fractal of golden buddhas in this very position in the lotus position exactly looking exactly like that floating all around me wow it was one of the trippiest things ever but that that image i think that i really have a firm belief that a lot of the eastern iconic imagery that we associate with religions a lot of that exists in psychedelic dimensions and it's representative much like alex grazework you look at it and you immediately think of

tryptamine dimensions i look at that stuff and i immediately remember certain images that i've seen while tripping that i think that's not because i knew those images existed i think maybe those images existed inside of these psychedelics and these geometric patterns that are sort of recreating in these you know sacred states and these sacred images these sacred geometric images that they really are sacred but they really do exist in another dimension you pull them out and recreate them and when you look at the buddha you look at a golden buddha statue you go oh it's like almost like you see that thing in your mind that's in you representative of enlightenment that's what they say man they say it is inside of you i believe that let's do prostitutes on you let's start your

post let's start your podcast talking about prostitutes chris ryan tangentially speaking how can people find you uh at chris ryan phd on twitter and my my website is chris ryan phd.com and guys joe rogan at joe rogan on twitter joe rogan.net and i'm sure you guys know how to find him thanks thanks so much you guys have a great day harry christina thanks namaste namaste thanks for listening pals that was shrimp parade if you enjoyed this give us a nice rating on itunes and please go through our amazon portal harry christina