Duncan Trussell Family Hour - JOE ROGAN

Episode Date: August 9, 2016

Joe Rogan tries out the HTC vive and we talk about VR and other incredible things.

Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. I'm dirty little angel. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Hello, it's me, Duncan Tressel, and you're listening to the Duncan Tressel Family Hour podcast, and this episode of the Duncan Tressel Family Hour

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in a world of jealousy and mediocrity. It also shows people that you are a fan of the DuncanTrussell Family Hour podcast, and there is a 30% chance that it will draw into your life a familiar, such as a cat, mouse, or gargoyle. Today's guest is the host of the Joe Rogan experience. He's also one of my best friends in the world. Everybody, please welcome to the DuncanTrussell Family Hour

podcast, the great Joe Rogan. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Joe Rogan, welcome. Welcome, my friend. Oh, thank you. I can't say welcome. Is it both of our phones making that noise? It's just we gotta get the phone away, the field,

the demon field. The demon. That's happening here is, hold on one second, let me just make it, I just don't want to. It's the easiest way to do it, right? With a laptop? Two mics and a laptop. Yeah, well, what do you run yours into?

Fucking sea of shit that I don't understand. It wasn't for Jamie and Brian, I don't know. I want to talk to Jamie though. Jamie's a wizard. Once you start getting into building a podcast studio, it's an endless maze. It is. You keep wanting to get, you want it to get better,

you want it to be more of a conduit because when I was like when I'm putting this thing together in here, I'm not done yet, but the idea behind it is that, and we talk about this sometimes, that the best stand-up sets and the best podcasts are the ones where you somehow cease to exist for a little while, if something comes through you, and I like to think that if you,

that you could tune a room based on that principle and maybe amplify that a little bit. Yeah, I think you could, just surround it with shit that you like and it would give you a better feeling that you surround, if you surround the room with shit you don't like. Like imagine if you put a bunch of stuff on the wall that you don't give a fuck about,

like Michael Jordan slam dunking a ball or Justin Bieber on stage with girls crying in the crowd, like a bunch of shit that didn't mean anything to you and you put that all over the walls. What would that do for you? Right. Put you in a weird place. It would just make me feel weird.

I'd be fucking weird. Make you feel weird. But don't you think that people actually recognize that there was some force in the universe that you could tune into and that some surroundings actually could amplify that force, that it's not a subjective thing, but that like when they built the pyramids or Stonehenge

or any of the ancient weird monuments that are out there that that was done with a kind of understanding of this concept that the less you're involved in what you do, the greater things become. And that people who built the pyramids must have understood that. They must have understood that as much as the people who built the World Trade Center.

A person who writes a great book, it seems like everything always comes back to that thing you hear people say, which is like, oh, it wasn't me. It was the muse. It was the spirit moved me or something. Well, there's the thing about doing a really large scale projects, I'm sure,

like think productions like the pyramids in the Empire State Building, where it really can't be about the individual because the amount of people that are involved, it's so massive. Like to be able to build the pyramids, they don't know really how it was built. Obviously, there's a lot of speculation.

They don't know how many people were involved, but they think it had to be like 100,000 fucking people working on that thing. Just imagine what that was like when by all accounts, like what they think people were alive back then, they think there was maybe like two or three million people alive back then.

So it wasn't, you weren't dealing with the same kind of populations you're dealing with today. So to get 100,000 people together was like, holy fuck. You got maybe 5% of the whole world to work on the fucking pyramids. Think of whoever organized that. It's crazy.

Whoever organized that is who you're interested in. That's the person you're interested in. You're interested in who was it that formulated the plans that could get 5% of 6% of the world's population together to create these geometric shapes in the middle of a desert that somehow line up with serious? Who is it that decided to do that? It wasn't somebody who rolled out a bed one day.

It's like, man, we should get 5% of the world's population together to build a thing to line up with a star system. What is it? Is it Orion that it's lining up to? I've heard serious, but then a lot of people are really into serious, the dog star, because they think that that's where the, whatever alien intelligence helped the evolution

of the species that came from Syria. This is the Dogon tribe you've heard of. They're the ones who have, yes. They're the ones who have somehow understood the, I don't know exactly what it is. They found planets, or they seem to be talking about planets on serious, or in series that people just discovered.

So that's part of the ancient alien ideas that these beings came from serious, or an even more intense idea is that actually, we are on serious right now, and planet Earth is a projection in some kind of institute where humans are learning to be citizens in an advanced society. And so as part of that, there's this,

I don't know, what do they call it when you leave, a cookie, or what do they call it? Not a cookie, an Easter egg. In the program, which is like the pyramids point to serious, and serious comes up all the time, and dog is God spelled backwards, and serious is the dog star. Wow.

Yeah, I mean, the whole Dogon tribe thing is so fascinating because they did have some knowledge of some astrological knowledge that's pretty incredible. That's right, and how? Yeah, I don't know. Well, there's so many possibilities other than they came from space. This is like somebody knew more than them,

and they taught them, and then that got spread out over several generations, and butchered. But you know that great joke you have, which is, if I left you alone in the forest with an axe, how long would it be before you build an iPhone? Well, how long before you could send me an email? Send me an email, that's it, right, right, right.

So, when I think about my understanding of the moon, like right now, if I go out and look at the moon, and try to analyze how far away it is from the earth, or even try to understand what the next, what it's gonna look like in a week, right now, if I try to do that, I can't do it. I would look at it and be like, well, I don't think it's gonna be full

because there's just a full moon. I bet it'll kind of go out a little bit, but it would take me a long time to just to understand the moon. So, the idea that some tribe in Africa somehow doesn't just understand the moon, but they understand a fucking star system. And they don't understand a star system,

but they understand that there are planets in the star system that we're just finding, or I don't know what, some kind of objects in the star system that we're just discovering, to think about that's like, well, okay, even if it is just something on earth that someone figured out, who the fuck is that person? Studying the sky prior to the existence of-

Telescopes. Skate telescopes. Looking at, I don't even know if you can see serious from planet Earth right now, but let's say you could. It's just one of those tiny little glimmering little dots up there in that great sea of dots that whoever lived in that tribe would have seen because there's no light pollution.

And for some reason, they tune in on that tiny, those tiny little flickering lights in the sky, and somehow from that looking at it, they're like, yes, and then there's also these planets there, and they accurately report them in a way that astronomers have noted, like, yeah, we don't know how they knew it, but they knew it. Yeah, there's some holes there.

Well, Dennis McKenna's way fucking smarter than me. There's a few guys that I talked to that I have to go, okay, can you slow that down, back that up, explain that one more time, and I have to try to throw it into my feeble washing machine brain. I'm like, I'm taking a whole army's clothes and chucking it into some apartment washing machine. That's, I feel like, when he's given me information.

Like, and when he was trying to explain the actual mechanical aspects, like the mechanisms behind the stone-dape theory about psilocybin's interaction with the human mind and how it potentially could explain the birth of language and all these different things, I remember like being like, okay, note to self, gotta listen to this again, like, because there's no way I'm grabbing it.

He believes that human beings have been engineered, in some way, by some sort of extraterrestrial intelligence. And he has a lot of openings for that. He believes it could be a plant-based intelligence, like it could be through ayahuasca or through mushrooms or things along those lines. He thinks it could be something that's come here from another planet.

He thinks it could be, there's a lot of possibilities, he thinks it could be they jettisoned their DNA into space and knew that it would eventually touch down on some fertile planet, like spreading seeds throughout the galaxy. But his belief is that he's had, I guess he's had some pretty intense psychedelic experiences, like really intense ones.

Like, you ever heard the one, I think it's in Food of the Gods, it's one of Terrence's book, he details where Dennis went into this like many week spell where he was convinced that somehow or another the psilocybin was interacting with his own DNA and was creating some new thing. And he's had some pretty intense, intense psychedelic experiences. This is when they went, they were trying to-

Blacherera. Yes, they wanted to open a portal to bring something back from the DMT realm. And he was proposing to Terrence that if he uttered some kind of, if he's just said something that had Dennis's name in it, it sounds like schizophrenia. So it sounds like, it sounds like a very,

whatever they were in, it just sounds like madness. They were taking so much mushrooms. They were talking about these mushrooms that were growing the size of dinner plates and they would just gather them up and start eating them. They were just, they blew their brains out. Yeah, they blew their brains out. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a thing about psychedelics

where there's like this letting go thing. That's a big part about it. That's what makes the experience work. What makes the experience work is this, you have to have this ability to succumb, to give in, to relax, to accept. To die. Yeah. Or just to just not exist anymore.

I mean, not even think about dying or rebirth or any of these things like, look, I'm good again. None of that. It's like literally a non-existent state. And if you get too much in that non-existent state, I think it eats all your breadcrumbs. I think you can't figure out how to get fucking home. And you're lost in the woods on your way to grandma's house

and you're like, there's no fucking breadcrumbs. This is what Robert Anton Wilson calls chapel perilous is the name he gives for this, which is this, you know, it's the, in the seeker's, in the path of the seeker, there's this, you'll go into this place, which is the, this is the mad hatter. This is the house of mirrors that you can go into.

And yeah, because just like any other great thing on earth, there is always the risk of true destruction for the self in some way, and you can lose your mind. You can lose your mind and stay there forever. It seems like to emerge from that chapel perilous as they call it, it requires a, you have to like be disintegrated and reintegrated to get to the other.

You have to let yourself disintegrate and reintegrate. But some people who think they've reintegrated, that's just another trick that illusion is playing on them. Yeah, I think it's very, I mean, think about just, for pretty much anyone who does any sort of a psychedelic, there's a rebooting, right? Even if it's just a temporary rebooting of the way you look at things, like it's like, wow,

I feel better today, that was really, even if you're like a frivolous person, like that was so fun, that was so awesome, I'm so happy, that's great, like even if you're not like considering it from some, maybe that's better in some ways than some deep philosophical sort of bullshit way of looking at a psychedelic experience. I laughed harder than I've ever laughed

in my entire life for six hours straight. Right, because you know things that you've said that you just said because they're honest, but then you've heard other people say the exact same thing and you kind of know what they're doing, that they're not quite, they're sort of like painting, they're making a painting that we've all seen before, so they're doing their version of it.

You know, look, this is the dogs playing cards. Like we've all seen them fucking painting, you know what I mean? It's like, it's their way to define the psychedelic experience is to put it into this like real, That's so funny. Obvious archetype that we've seen before, you know what I mean?

Yes. And so they'll talk, and you can tell the difference, that's what's weird, I can tell the difference when someone is telling, and they might have had a very profound experience, but they're relating of the experience. I'm not denying the profundity of their experience, but I'm saying their ability to relate it

becomes fictionalized. Right. And it's probably not even their fault, it's like a lot of it is they just don't know how to express themselves in that way, like trust their expression to try to figure out what the fuck a real psychedelic experience is, right? Yes, yeah, exactly, that's the,

I think that's what one of the great, that was one of the great talents of McKenna is that he was, he had a lot of talents, one of the talents was he was able to fearlessly allow himself to enter into these psychedelic states numerous times, but the other talent was he could bring back the information he discovered there in a way that people who have entered the psychedelic state

or even haven't feel psychedelic, you feel that again when you're reading McKenna. When you read McKenna, he will summon back up some of your deepest trips just by talking about what's happening over there, wherever there may be. And that's a talent. Yeah, charisma. And I think that was one of the things he said,

it's like, listen, if you're gonna take a psychedelic right now during the prohibition, then bring something back, bring something back, come back with some information, don't just go there with like a, his idea was go there like an anthropologist, come back with a little bit of stuff that you can give to the world, because the stuff that comes to the world

from that place causes evolution to happen. And this is the same thing that I think Dennis McKenna is saying in a different way, which is that aliens had some effect on the evolution of the human species. Well, sure, and maybe these aliens are located in the psychedelic state. And maybe when people go into the psychedelic state

and come back with some kind of articulation of the ideas that they had there, maybe that's what creates these huge leaps in human evolution and technological evolution, which is why so many luminaries like Tesla and Steve Jobs all report, psychedelic state, LSD for Tesla was just a vision he had, but they all report going to some kind of liminal place

and getting information that they then bring back into this dimension, which creates massive shifts in society. Yeah, no, that's a fascinating possibility that we are being altered by what McKenna would call and other, and that the other really fascinating aspect is that it's happening to us every night and we just don't have any recollection of it.

The thing that everyone's willing to go to sleep every night is you shut off, you're shutting off your whole thing. You're looking forward to it. Oh my God, I'm so tired, I can't wait. You get your head down the pillow. And first of all, what is tired? Like, why is this body need to shut off? Like, how weird is that?

Like, you get to a point where you're nodding at the wheel, like during like perilous activities, like driving a fucking car, like your brain is trying to check out so hard, trying to check out while you're driving. Like, bitch, don't you know we'll die if you go to sleep right now? Like, why being so greedy about dying, about sleeping rather.

But then once you do sleep, you're fucking gone. You don't have any real memories. You have some vague ideas of some weird, weird dreams that you had that involve people that you barely remember, having prominent roles in your life, could involve monsters and magic and preposterous notions, right? It could be really ridiculous.

Sure, man. And who knows, they say you're only remembering a small percentage of the dreams. So it's like, sleep is like God taking a bathroom break. It's like when God has to piss, you fall asleep long enough for him to like stop playing the game and like get some Cheetos. That's what the impulse to sleep is.

That's so strange. Yeah, I love, that was another thing McKenna said in some lecture I downloaded about how, you know, every 12 hours, one side of the earth is in one of the most vivid psychedelic experiences. Just as the, if you follow the light, as it flows across the earth, what you're seeing is this thing chasing away

the psychedelic experience. And the moment the light is gone, all the people and animals even fall back into that weird psychedelic state. So as the planet is revolving, not only is it like physically revolving, beings living on the planet are sort of swimming in and out of this psychedelic state,

like dolphins coming in and out of water almost. Wow, that's incredible. That is, you know, that is the big mystery, isn't it? What happens when we shut off? And why is it when you have DMT trips? I mean, I've had them now over, you know, a period of more than 10 years when I first started doing, I think I did it in 2012, 2002.

So it's been at least 12 years. And I still remember the first experience being, I've been here before. I remember that feeling, like, I know this place. Right. Like, oh, this place, there's this, and it's like, no, you don't know us. There's like this weird thing about the very first entry

that I'll never forget. And then every time I go there, of course, I know it. Cause I've been there and it's the most profound thing you could ever see. So of course I know it, but there's still something behind that, there's something deeper than that. And I wanna say I think, because I don't think, I ponder the possibility that we go to that place

every night. Sure. Yeah, I think that does happen. Why is it that when you dream, you know, you have these incredible weird freaky things and you're piecing together, it's probably only like 30 seconds of actual dream, you know, that you're piecing together

into this elaborate plot. Oh my God, we were fucking, we were running down the street and Casper, the friendly ghost, was with us and he loved us and why is it that it's so hard to remember that fucking thing later? When you wake up, that dream is like right there and it's crazy.

Imagine if you went to see Captain America, okay? Captain America fought the Winter Soldier and they fucking had this incredible battle. Is it a good movie? It's a decent comic book movie. Okay, go ahead, sorry. It's fun. That's a stupid question.

No, no, it's not. It's a good question, because I don't know why I brought up that Captain America. No, you go to the movie and then you leave. You go to the movie and there's this fucking badass fight scene. I can remember that badass fight scene pretty clearly. Right.

I mean, it happened, I saw that movie months ago and I can remember them duking it out on the wing of this plane and I remember how Robert Redford's a fucking piece of shit and Sammy Jackson's in on it and like all this, you know, he gets shot and this is all crazy. I remember the plot. I remember the bad guy,

he was a good guy one point time, Captain America knew. I mean, it's all, the shit is in my head. But the DMT trips, it's like I'm scrambling to hold on to like frames. One frame here, one frame there. Right. Like I can't, and it was way more profound. I think of it as though somebody came to you

and whispered to you the greatest news you've ever heard in your life and then somehow right after they tell you you get amnesia. So you can't remember what they said but you still have that feeling of like, wow, that's great. Really? That's a funny way to think about it.

Holy shit, that's great. And you're not sure why you're thinking that. You know, I can remember from the DMT, the most profound DMT trip I had. I can remember it and I can remember the feeling that went along with it and I can remember the sense of relief that went along with it.

But I can't remember the specifics so much. But I think that the communication you're getting from there, the familiarity that you're experiencing is the familiarity of the same familiarity you have when you stop reading a book for a second and like go back to your regular life, you know? And I think that probably is DMT, dreaming, death. It's all the same thing.

It's just you going back to your regular self that isn't doing this thing that we're doing right now called being a human. And being a human is just something the universe does. And a lot of people have theories about why the universe does that. But and some of them are like Richard Dawkins evolutionary. It just happens after a certain amount of time

and planets spin and there's molecules and they over the course of time, they evolve into like these things and these massive brains that have sentience. And then on the other side of the scale there's people who say, this is a university. You're being taught right now. You are in class, class is in session

and you're learning about some really specific principles and you keep going back to class again and again and again and again and again till you get it. And once you get it, that's it. And that's called, that's like the transcendent true enlightenment when you graduate and no longer reincarnate again in the software, the simulator that we're in. It would make sense.

It's like when we're sending people to war, they use simulators, flight simulators, military's tank simulators. It makes sense that in that same way, it's like if there was some kind of super advanced species, the way it would train young godlings is by putting them in a very limited situation and getting them to understand what works.

Not by just teaching them but like, here, let's experience every possible incarnation, devouring, being devoured, loving, having the heart broken, gaining, losing, experience the whole spectrum of embodied existence and then maybe at the end of that, that's when you become some, that's when you're ready to become something great.

If you really put any weight at all on the individual, but what are the things about the psychedelic state, to me, seems that the idea of getting caught in the individual is just a big trick. It's like a big, silly trick. It's almost like they laugh, like DMT elves or whatever you want to call them, the beings. They laugh when you think about you as you.

They think you're so funny. They really think it's funny. And then they show you how, no, no, no, this is way crazier, like you're part of all this and then you're part of all this, you're part of all this, you're part of all this, you're part of, and they show you those images and that, I don't even want to say images

because it's like you're being led through a three-dimensional experience in the most vivid visual that you can't imagine. You can't say you could possibly imagine because you could never imagine it. If you hadn't actually seen a DMT trip, you would never imagine what the fuck that is. And when you do do it,

if you have any thoughts at all about yourself, they just go, ha, look at you, you're so silly. It's cute, it's the same way you treat a baby. And it's the exact same way you treat a baby and it's an indication that we exist in an expanding, evolving universe. It's not just that, I think it's ridiculous to think that it's just planets that form

and it's just stars that form. I think it's possible that other universes form within universes and the process for those universes to form is somehow whatever's happening here on earth. It's all part of this movement in the direction of something. I think there is movement. I think that behind it all,

there might be some universal truth, but I do think that there is the adjectives, expanding, increasing, accelerating, unfolding. The sense of a thing actually happening. The sense that there is not a in game that's already happened that we're in, there is this sense of something is unfolding and exponentially increasing in the direction

of what I think is paradise or bliss or some kind of, I don't know what it is exactly. I think it's unfolding to progress for sure. And I think that a lot of these, like the conversation that we were having dinner today about these social issues that people have, that a lot of it is people trying to work out things for the better.

They might have the wrong strategy. They might have the wrong motivation. They might be motivated by the need to get all the feminists to love them or they might be motivated by the need to get all these men's rights advocates to fucking like their Facebook page. There could be a bunch of different reasons

why people have these motivations for action, but ultimately, what is it leading to? It's gonna lead somehow or another to conflict resolution. And along the way, people are forced, like it or not, they're forced to address the other people's opinions. And there's gonna be some opinions that people reluctantly accept as being valid,

even if they're opposing to their own ideologies. They'll reluctantly accept these ideas as being valid. And I think that that's a part of what's going to have to happen when you have these debates openly and honestly on the internet. Or you're not going to. I mean, there's the argument that you're not going to. There's the argument that the internet, in fact, stifle,

I've heard people say the internet stifles originality because the originate, the originate, that's the latest. The internet stifles originality because it allows for so much rampant confirmation bias. And so many people find like-minded groups, whether it's Pentecostals that speak in tongues or people that believe in the Second Amendment and they carry a gun on them every time they go

to take a shit in the middle of the night. There's like, you could find a group of like-minded folks out there and you just start using jargon. I got my RFID in the mail yesterday. I'm not going to go out on a fucking RFQ with a PPT. When people do that shit on message boards, it drives me crazy.

I'm like, cut that fucking shit. Say the Duncan Trust on Family Hour. You're talking about, what you're talking about here is the, so like you have Saturn and the rings of Saturn. The rings of Saturn are all these like dust particles that have congealed around the gravity of Saturn. And so that's what you're talking about with these message boards

or whatever weird small societies pop up is surrounding some group of charismatic. There's always this dust cloud of people who are trapped in that orbit who are circling around whatever the specific paradigm is that represents that subculture, whether it's feminism, anti-feminism, racism, communism, whatever it is, you're just witnessing people

who've been pulled into the gravity of a specific operating system, being offered by a few really smart people into the world who think that this is the operating system we all need to be running. If we run this motherfucker, it's going to somehow improve conditions on planet Earth. That's what we are talking about at dinner.

And I have been reading Cosmic Trigger, Robert Anton Wilson, super into Timothy Leary right now. And what we were talking about is the idea that, what Timothy Leary said, smile, space migration, intelligence squared and life extension. These are the three imperatives for humanity right now. Let's conquer death, get into space and make ourselves smarter, everything else, fuck it.

So the idea is what operating systems in the form of culture ideologies or philosophies allow those three things to happen and which of them don't. And the ones that don't, let's allow ourselves the indulgence of thinking that there is a moral hierarchy when it comes to philosophies. And that the hierarchy is if your shit

is not going to get us into space, if it's not going to double the human lifespan and it's not going to make us smarter, we don't need it right now. Thank you, thank you, no thanks. Shut the door on the Mormons. Yeah, yeah, or the, or the, or the, or the, whatever. Whatever it is.

Whatever it is, whatever you are that's trying to keep us stuck on planet Earth. Whatever you are that's trying to enforce a rigid ideology that's based on superstition, ancient shit makes no sense. Thank you, but no thank you. No thanks. If I'm in a skyscraper.

Sharia law. Sharia law. No thanks. Doesn't get me off the planet. Thank you very much. Appreciate it very much. Doesn't get me off the planet. Doesn't get me out of the building that's on fire.

If I'm in a building on fire and there's a group of people who are like, okay, how do we get out of the building on fire? Who am I going to listen to? The first people I don't listen to are the people like, let's just stay in the building. That's so true. It's on fire, asshole.

The fucking planet. The ice caps are melting. The thing's dying down. And people are like, oh, you mean you want to go infect the rest of the universe? Yes. Yes, I do. Just like any other infectious virus,

just like the Ebola virus, I want to fly, baby. I want the Earth to sneeze me out and want to Elon Musk's super advanced interstellar vehicles and travel to another planet where I can experience what it's like to be in a place where we don't know what it is yet. Yeah, give it to me. I think our urgency, the urgency of resolving these ideas

and these, like trying to figure out a peaceful way to have all the humans on Earth have access to resources and be able to live and prosper and not fucking pollute the ocean, eat all the fish up and leave everybody starving to death. I really do think that's still possible. And I think that what we're seeing right now, like this hopelessness and this feeling

like nothing is ever going to totally work itself out. Like it's just going to be chaos and war. And I think it's the growing pains of the human mind accepting the digital age of information, that these ideologies they're clinging to with their fucking scarfs over their faces and praising these imaginary beings. These are the death throes of complex ideologies

that have kept people moving in the right direction for a certain amount of years. But much like a cocoon, the butterfly sheds that stupid shit. But without that stupid shed, it might not have ever made it this far. And I think that something's going on with people today where there seems to be a fever pitch, both in like political left wing ideologies

versus right wing ideologies, religions versus atheism, which in a lot of ways is like another religion. Are you aware of atheism plus? No. It's a fascinating movement because it's essentially creating a religion out of atheism. They would probably disagree.

I think their intentions are great. I mean, the idea is atheism with a set of moral values and standards. It's called Buddhism, dum-dums. Well, they're just saying no. They're not subscribing to any ideology other than no racism, no sexism, no oppression. They have this idea.

Daoism? Yeah, but I mean, there's nothing wrong with having these ideas. Those things you just mentioned, those are all religions. So there's nothing wrong with creating an engineered new one based on what we know today in 2014. I think it's a great idea. Nothing wrong with it.

But it's fascinating to combat religion. They've become a religion. And this, an atheism in and of itself is an ideology. And if you're saying that an ideology isn't a religion, you're splitting hairs. You're saying you don't know if there's a God. Okay, did you die? Right.

Did you die? Right. You didn't die. So if you died and you got to heaven and there was Saint Peter and you had a book and there was harps and angels, you'd be like, motherfucker, I guess I was wrong. Like, is it likely that that's gonna go down?

No, but I also have a problem with a lot of people that are like really high on the horse of moral discourse who have never had a psychedelic experience. I don't get it. Well, I get it. They want the world to be a better place. And I've met some amazing people that have never had a psychedelic experience.

I don't get it. When a smart person has it, has it had a psychedelic experience. Well, no, only because it's- No, no, no, not you, why? Why them? Well, yeah, right. Well, because here's the, like, so you talk to a sober person and a sober person,

when they say they're sober, what they mean is I use the drugs that are sanctioned by the state to be sober. So I drink coffee, I smoke cigarettes, I take Prozac, if I get anxious, I'll have a Xanax, but I'm sober. Oh, wait, hold on. God's feedback, they're still recording. But you know, I'm sober.

We're laughing too hard. Some of the, I know some sober people who like are, all they do all day long is stare at their phone and drink coffee. And it's like, okay, so you're clearly not in this reality. You're in a reality of pure caffeination. A friend of mine who's sober, I was having this conversation and they were like,

you know what, just drink coffee for a year, smoke pot for a year and drink coffee and tell me what it's like. Something ridiculous like that, because they feel like caffeine isn't a drug. They feel like caffeine doesn't have the same detrimental effects that marijuana might have on a person's life or that a psychedelic might have.

The end game to the conversation was a simple globe article about how the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous was a proponent of LSD. And it's like, oh, I guess there's nothing else to talk about. I think we're done here. Well, no, I ended it with like, I'm a friend of Bob's. It's Bill.

Bill, whatever. Well, it's also, man, if you were really scared of coffee, coffee could do some crazy shit to you. Coffee makes you, coffee gives you weird digestive problems. It definitely kills more people per year than LSD. I don't know about that. Oh, no, it does. I don't really think coffee kills people.

Oh, no, caffeine, I mean, I'm sorry, caffeine. Not coffee, but the substance that makes, if you remove, as far as I'm aware, there's not a huge market for decaf coffee. People do drink it. They do drink it, but yeah, it's probably, if I had a guess, man, not even a quarter. I would say it's probably, yeah, probably a quarter.

People like the caffeine. Three percent. They drink in coffee for that. Can we find out? The percentage of people who drink decaf? Yeah. Let me look it up. I think it's like less than 10% if I had a guess.

Let me look it up. Percentage of people. I just like to know how many silly fucks are drinking that shit for the flavor. When I get around people who drink decaf, it's like my heart sinks in this weird way. I don't even know why. It's gross.

It's gross. They don't order decaf. Just order something. Just order a nice, like- A tea. A rumble tea. A nice herbal tea. What are you doing?

Tate Fletcher has the best thing about coffee. Who actually owns Caveman Coffee, whose t-shirt I'm wearing right now. Oh, cool. Tate Fletcher goes, it's like having a warm hug. That's what coffee is like. It's like a big warm hug. I can't find it, but someone look it up for us

and find it, but the whole point is like, come on, let's face it. People like coffee and the same. People smoke cigarettes, not because they like inhaling, burning fucking smoke from paper into their lungs, they like it, because of the nicotine. Let's ask Google. People like-

What percentage of people, percentage? Whoops. What percentage of people? My boss then actually came out large for some reason. I'm trying to fight that since birth, hold on. What percentage of people who drink coffee drink decaf? Man, that sounds terrible, that scratchy shit on the- I know, it's the farm, the field.

It's gotta be rotting our brains. If it's fucking with the mics, it's gotta be fucking with our brains. Google did a terrible job. It's not gonna find it. Let's say it's 40%, whatever. Who gives a shit? It's safe to say the majority of people are enjoying coffee,

not for its taste, though its taste is great. With almond milk, I like it, but- They're getting a drug out of it. They like the drug. For sure. So the whole sobriety thing, and especially, I mean, look, I hate to say it, and I'm sorry for all the sober people out there,

but you guys, by stopping people from taking psychedelics, you're doing a lot of harm to the world. A lot of fucking harm to the world. I can't believe you're saying that. I'm gonna say it, you're hurting the world. What's wrong with just being sober, Duncan, and waiting for your heart to stop beating? Peace, yeah.

What's wrong with getting your anxiety in check with a little bit of Xanax every day, and going to coffee and meetings, and you get up there, and you get your new chip that says you're 140 fucking thousand days sober, and you make it a part of your culture? That's your life. That's fine.

It's fine if you're finding happiness through that, but if you're promoting an ideology that has, as one of its components, the lie that psychedelics reduce a person's ability to experience happiness in this dimension, or the idea that psychedelics are in some way a life crusher on the level of cocaine and heroin, then you're doing a disservice to your species.

And every single year, now that the prohibition on the research of these chemicals has been lifted, which by the way, I don't remember who said it, it might've been Leary. I'm really into Leary right now. He said, the prohibition of psychedelics will not stop the consumption of psychedelics. It's a prohibition on the research of psychedelics.

That's all you've done is made it so that people are gonna keep taking them, but no one's gonna know what they are, because you're not letting scientists research them. Johns Hopkins University just came out. Did you read the Smoker cessation? Yeah, Smoking psilocybin connection. Long-term smokers, something like 60% of them,

it might've been 80% in eight months after doing three mushroom trips, stop smoking. Unprecedented results. For those of you who have promulgated some ridiculous ideology where mushrooms are bad for you, LSD is bad for you, any kind of psychedelics bad for you, you are an asshole. And you have done the exact same thing

the Catholics did when they put Galileo in prison for telling the truth. That's all you're doing, because you weren't able to differentiate that heroin, cocaine, speed, barbiturates are a whole different animal from psychedelics. And if you think that psychedelics are a gateway drug that leads you into that land,

the research is showing you're fucking wrong because it's curing addiction. So fuck you. You're very aggressive. Forgive me for being aggressive. I love you guys. It's one, I'm stuck there, I'm stuck there. No, no, it's a good place to be stuck

because it's good to let the people who do oppose psychedelics hear the anger and the commitment in your words because what you're saying is valid. But what I think is that it's just ignorance. I think that these folks are ignorant. There's a guy, I won't mention his name, but I had a dispute with him.

And one of the things, I mean, it was pretty clear that I didn't have a dog in the race when we were having this conversation. I was just giving him some facts that he didn't want to accept. And we had this back and forth because of it. And then we had a conversation about it afterwards and he goes, I've been thinking a lot

about trying psychedelics. And I said, I think it would be really good for you. And he said, we're going back and forth in email, something to tune of, a lot of people have a lot of really great people said it did amazing things to expand their mind. And I said, I think it could help you. I think it could help you maybe get out

of a little bit of a rut that you might be in. Because I think one of the big ruts, especially for, not just for men, but for adults that are, they're on their way, they have bills, they have a mortgage, they're in motion, they have a career. Very rarely do they want to accept that they were ever incorrect about anything.

Whenever anybody starts getting any kind of success, when they start getting any kind of momentum in their life, you know, like finally I'm out of debt, finally I paid off my student loans, I'm moving forward, and then something comes up and it's like, listen, you might be wrong about this whole psychedelics thing. Listen, I fucking quit drinking,

I had my last drink when I was 22 years old, I went to Alcoholics Anonymous, I've been sober for 32 years, now I have a house, it's worth $700,000, I've got my own car, I'm fucking, my mom lives in my garage, you know what I mean? Like they'll start rattling off the amount of progress they've made away from that alcohol

because they're on that path. And so it's really hard for people that are on that path to say, okay, I clearly had an issue with substances, but what substances are those if I'm allowing myself to drink coffee, if I'm allowing myself to smoke cigarettes? What is it I'm so terrified of in these psychedelics, especially the ones that have been shown to be

not only not addictive, but anti-addictive. Right, they reset whatever the habitual patterns of your brain are. The people that are fighting against it, I just think they don't know any better. I think they're on a path and they don't know any better. Don't know any better, just like somebody fingering their toddler's

butthole right now, to me it doesn't matter, the whole, we don't know any better. It's like, no, I don't care if you don't know any better, I know I'm not insane, and I know that any time I've taken a psychedelic, the most recent being an incredible MDMA experience, where the experiencing like true connection and like the love that seems to be behind everything

or my most decent, distant LSD trip, all of those things have been little bumps that have propelled me in the direction, little bits of burst of acceleration that have propelled me in the direction of being able to like read Ram Dass and understand what he's saying or like being able to like have an open mind enough

to like listen to like, I don't know, Jack Cornfield or like get information from people like that without shutting off immediately when it starts disrupting the concept that I might not be a person, that I might be a unified consciousness. Those have all helped me move in that direction. I'm not there yet, I still think I'm a person

but all the- Well, you're both. See, that's the things, like trying to separate any of the possibilities. It's, they're all a wash on each other. Like you are a person, but you are also universal consciousness. You are an ego, but you are also biology.

You are a seed that wants to spread and you are also the love that is the glue that keeps civilization together. All those things are the same. It's just, you know, we're trying to define shit, man. And we're trying to define shit basically in our lifetimes in a way, I mean, your mother was incredibly smart, man. I mean, the podcast with your mom

was a really interesting insight into who you are as a person. So I got to see how brilliant your mother was and how the conversations you guys had were these really complex conversations. Yes. I never had those conversations. My mom's not, she's not a dumb person.

She just didn't talk that way, didn't think that way. Right. She was more relaxed and laid back and she's a great person and she's cool to be with and she's funny and she's nice, but she just wasn't like, you know, so my point being is your mother, I think was a very original thinker

and she was very into seeing things for what she believed they really were, where you are as well. And so your model of seeing things from the way you believe them to be, you believe the world to be is based entirely on the information you've gathered in your 30 plus years of life,

your experiences that you've personally, you know, taken into account and learned and grown from and all of those things they sort of add together and somewhere along the line, you realize, wow, I'm essentially, I took a baton from my mother and I ran with it and now I'm in this uncharted territory and we're all that way. Everyone that's alive that's listening to my voice

in 2014 is in uncharted territory. No one has ever lived to just, what is it, September 17th or some shit? What is today? What is today? What is it, hold on. Yeah, September 17th. Listen, everybody listening to this,

you are the only fucking people ever that has made it to September 17th, 2014. You are the only ones. No one has ever gotten this far. Nobody knows what the fuck is ahead in this crazy video game. You are at the front of the line, the cutting edge of civilization.

September 17th, 2014, if you're hearing my voice, you're at the front of the fucking line of history. There's no denying that. So anybody trying to piece life together, based on the information that we gathered up over the last whatever hundreds of years of people have been writing things down, it's come to a head.

I mean, it'll get further along, probably long after we're gone, if people are still alive, the information that this generation has gathered up will help seed the next generation's imagination and they will take things to another level of understanding and then their children will do the same. It's just the way it's always been.

We're in this weird stage right now where we're aware of it. And we have way more information because of the exponential progress of technology. And way more responsibility because of that progress. And way more responsibility because of our ability doing things like this, having this conversation. An ability that never existed before,

your fucking podcast reaches more people than 99% of the radio shows on the planet. That's a fact, that's a fact. Your podcast goes international. This podcast will go to London. I get emails from Scotland and Dublin and China and Singapore and Japan. It's just, there's people everywhere, man.

They're all thinking and growing. I get these Death Squad Australia tweets. I mean, that shit is spreading. And that is, so it's a huge, it's a responsibility that you have to make sure that what you're, the signal that you're putting out is a signal that is going to induce growth in the species.

However you wanna do that. Do you think of that though? Do you think of that as a responsibility? I'm going to make sure I give a signal that delivers. But I do think that when I put shit out there, I do think that in the early days of podcasting, when I had a podcast with Natasha, the lavender hour, I think I was way more loose

with throwing out shit vibes into the world. Cause I didn't think about it too much. Or like, when I tweet, outside of the fake fights I get into with Brendan Walsh, which is stupid and fun. In the earlier days, I would be more prone to attack someone who says something shitty to me. Whereas now it's just like, oh, just block, turn off that connection.

Because I think that when you throw, we're all learning that the energy we're putting out is bouncing back to us in increasingly severe ways. And you don't have to chalk that up to some kind of metaphysical principle, which I do. You can just look at the fact that with a growing population, when you go into the world, you're seeing a reflection of yourself

in the way all the people around you act. So if there's more people, there's more reflections. So if you're acting like a shithead, then what's coming back to you and all the frowns and people not calling you back and people turning their back on you and people talking shit about you is only gonna be amplified and multiply

with a growing population. And the same way, if you're a kind person who's generous and tips and listens and helps people and tries to do more for people than they do for you, then you're gonna experience the reflection of that energy in the form of people wanting to help you all the time and people weeping when you die. Though you won't experience that.

When you're getting sick, you'll experience it. That's a brilliant way of putting it, the amount of reflections. And we were kind of talking about that today as well, about negative responses on the internet and this is just the interaction with all the various people on the internet is just the numbers you're reaching are so great

that the amount of people that suck are gonna be much higher than they ever were before because even though the percentage of people that suck is the same, the percentage of people who are anonymous and hurtful and angry there's a lot of people that don't get any love, man. And it's not their fucking fault. A lot of them, they're born into a shitty household

with shitty parents, they got bad genetics, they went to a terrible neighborhood school and the whole thing's a fucking disaster. And they're just filled with imbalance. It's more imbalanced than it is. You mean categorize it in a negative and say it's hate, but a big percentage of what a lot of haters are is just imbalanced.

They're going through this life and they just fucking want to lash, man. They want to lash and every time they get a chance to lash and they can be anonymous and shit on Jennifer Lawrence's tits or whatever the fuck it is that they can just just hate and it's not their fault. They got a shit deal unless, I had Rupert Sheldrake on the podcast yesterday

and he was talking about his time in India and he would talk about how he would want to help poor people and the Indian people would be like, it is their karma, you have to understand they have done something in another life to be in this position, no. And what a convenient way of looking at that, you know. Sure.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I agree. I don't see any evidence whatsoever that anybody that's going to shit position is anything other than a baby that got fucked with a shit roll of the dice. And the idea that you're fucking beholden to some shit that happened before you were born, what a douchey universe.

What a douchey universe of reincarnation and karma does exist in the Hindu form. Because that fucking sucks, man. It sucks that you can't even start fresh as a baby. Right. Yeah, well, that's why I think when people ask the Buddha about what happens when you die, he was always like, let's not worry about that right now.

Buddha sounds like me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, yeah, you're kind of a Buddhist, man. You have Buddhist statues all over your house, you just don't know it, but that's fine. You don't have to know you're a Buddhist to be one, but he was kind of like, let's deal with that when the time comes.

But right now, let's deal with what's happening right now. But in the same way that the idea is like, you can understand the whole by studying its parts. So the idea is like, if you study the way energy works in the universe, and you study a person's life, you can see, biologically, they reincarnate every certain amount of years, because your DNA is always sort of producing new use.

Your DNA is always pumping out new you. So you are in this constant state of reincarnation. The baby Joe Rogan versus Joe Rogan now, these are two completely different beings. Every single cell inside of these beings, more than likely is different. The Rogan that was a baby versus the Rogan now, that Rogan that was a baby, all those cells, they're done.

Not just that. I mean, how about the you of a week ago? You got to be responsible for that asshole. Yeah, exactly. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. You're you now. Like why do I have to keep fucking carrying the burden of some dude who lived a year ago?

That shit is annoying. You don't, but you only have to carry that burden as long as you keep doing the same things that that guy was doing a year ago. So it's just simple. It's like you take a rudder and you put it on a boat. The way you can shape that rudder in a certain way where the boat's gonna go tend to go left

or the boat's gonna tend to go right. So the idea is if you can reshape the rudder of your own life by beginning to act in ways that are vastly different from the way that you habitually act, then you will experience a brand new incarnation with all new reflections coming into you from the mirror of the organic mirror surrounding you in society.

Just worry about that. As far as the notion of when you die, if you continue, if you are in a certain momentum in some direction, you're gonna have a better life. Let's help, maybe. But here's what's crazier. You don't have to fucking die. Ha ha ha ha ha.

And shit can get way better. You just have to stop being a dick. Ha ha ha ha ha. Well, you know, I don't like to quote Tony Robbins too much, but he actually said some pretty brilliant shit. And one of the things that he said, he's got a very good ability to break things down to the things that you remember.

And he equated the way you're living your life now to pretend that there's two ships and they're on a parallel line. And they're going the same direction. And one ship just makes a two degree deviation. Well, as they go further, that ship continues to get further and further and further apart from the other ship.

It's, they're not just going the same speed. That two degree deviation has made one go wider and wider and wider the further they go. So that a year down the line or 10 years down the line, you're so far away from where you were on that one incremental shift. Right. And those incremental shifts, they can keep occurring.

It's not like you can only make one. It's not like you're going down this road. You're on a parallel line with a douchebag. And you make one two degree shift and then a mile down the road, you're still going in that same path. No, you make another two degree shift. Now you're fucking five, six, seven miles.

You're way, way out to the right. Way out to the right away from that guy. Or to the left or whatever, you know what I'm saying? That guy's dead. That guy's gone. He went off the cliff and you circled around back behind him because you kept turning. That's it.

And that's what the world offers you. And that is a real thing. But you can't get there if you're not willing to go up to function in a completely different way. Like you have to really take some serious punches from the world to get, or what you think are punches. They're not punches. You just have to stop getting vengeance on everything.

You know, it's like you just have to stop every time. Everyone, the dumbest people I know, man, they always want to get back at someone. If someone does something, I like to look at the, what are the smartest people I know do? What are the most successful people I know do? What are the richest people I know do? They all seem unfazed by negativity.

If someone's addicted to them, they might cut them off or keep them out of their lives, but they don't try to fuck them over after they hurt them. They don't pursue them in some way to ruin their lives. They just let them go into the world. The other thing about them is they always tend to be in a state of forgiveness, you know?

They're very forgiving in a specific way, you know? But, and they also don't seem to care about all the shit they have. Cause the people I know who are really successful or wealthy, they don't seem very attached to the shit they have. Dude, I'm right here. You're one of them, man, for sure, though.

You're talking about me, I'm not even here. I am talking about you, and I didn't want to be a dick. It'd be like, oh, that's what you're like. But it is cool to watch people like that. I know other people who are like quite successful and you see, interestingly enough, the same kind of patterns almost indicating that it's like there's a frequency you can tune into.

Well, you know, I call it guerrilla Buddhism, my de-attachment to things. Right. The idea being, I don't know why I call it guerrilla Buddhism. It's just something that's stuck with it. Cause I have a fascination with apes. But the idea being that we have this attachment to things because they're so difficult to attain.

But once things become really easy to attain, like if I wanted to go out and buy a new computer, I just go to the Apple store, I give them my plastic thing, I swipe it, I write my name on their little iPhone thingy, and I'm done. I'm not thinking about that at all. It doesn't register. So it becomes a free item.

So if I go outside and it falls out of my truck and smashes on the ground and gets run over by another car, I don't freak out and head of a conniption. I go, whoops, and then I can get another one cause I'm not attached to it. But it's also, I have real things in my life that are significant. I think there's a real problem that people have.

They detach materialism from the lack of connection that you have to your friends and to your craft and to your life and to your hobbies and to your loves and to your enjoyment and to your appreciation, your objective appreciation of this experience. They equate it like they're mutually exclusive. Like you either have to be a materialist who loves items or you're a really fulfilled, happy, satisfied person

who has a bunch of friends and who's just spreading fun and happiness and joy. You can't be that person if you drive a 1969 Mustang, it's fucking perfect, cherry red, shiny rims, impossible. But I say, why not? I say, that's preposterous. I think you have this rigid sense of what a person has to and has to not do in order to be free of materialism.

I say, you're more trapped by materialism because it's unattainable, because it's a thing that you can't possibly reach. The person like Bill Gates could truly be a non-materialist because he doesn't ever have to think about, I think about money. Like I can't go buy a house. I can't go fly a private jet.

You know what I'm saying? A guy like Bill Gates has zero restrictions on any of his behavior ever as far as like his wants, needs, desires. You got the cheat code. The total cheat code to life. He can have the most ridiculous pimped out plane with diamond studs all over it.

Like he could have a blinged out plane. He could have a plane covered in rhinestones, bulletproof, it has a parachute so he never has to worry about crashing. He could do whatever he wants. He has like a hundred billion dollars or some crazy show like that. That guy has a very unique possibility

of being the ultimate materialist. And I'm not saying that you can't achieve enlightenment unless you're Bill Gates. I say, anybody who's trying to pick this apart and critique this, all I am saying is that we have this idea that things are mutually exclusive. Is that a person can't be a really good person

but also eat meat. That a person can't be a really ethical, moral person but also get drunk with their wife and fuck. The person, you know what I'm saying? Like you raped your wife, she was drunk, she couldn't consent. There's a lot of weird shit going on right now where people are saying crazy things like that.

You can be a good person and still like say, like what we did today in traffic, we know like this fucking guy cut off, cut in front of us and you got mad, you sent out a bunch of swears and you're like, well, there it is. Is that evil thing that just comes out of me every now and then? But no one got hurt and you and I laughed

and it was funny, you know? But you're still great personally. The idea that those thoughts would never come to you because you're so pious and pure. No, that's poor shit. That's poor shit. It's a constant little wrestling match with the universe. That's what life is.

Well, it's so funny you say a wrestling match because if you read, if you study, what is it? Like people are always wrestling with angels. Hiawatha wrestles with the great spirit and the great spirit gives him corn. Or like, isn't it like the story of the Jews? Like he was at Jacob's Ladder. He wrestles with an angel, breaks his...

It's an archetype, this idea of wrestling with the truth until finally you surrender to what you really are. And man, what a great moment that is when you do that because it doesn't mean becoming something different. It means just being what you are right now is perfect. And that is an amazing idea. And that's the idea that's blasphemous to some people because they don't wanna think that everything's perfect.

They wanna believe that things are imperfect because if things are imperfect, then evil can exist. And if evil can exist, then you can justify aggression. And nothing feels better than justified aggression. Nothing feels better than, this is why everyone's so, dicks are hard over ISIS. Cause like you can't feel bad if bombs are dropping on people who kidnap women and put them in brothels

and beat decapitate babies. They cut off a journalist's head for no race. Oh, let him burn. Let him burn. Justified violence, it feels so good. It's the wine of the modern age. If we can find a nice way to distill justified violence into the people, then goddamn,

we're gonna sell a lot of bombs. I wonder how many people buy Priuses knowing that they can shit on people who drive regular cars if they buy a Prius. They don't want to think that, but it's in the back a little bit. There's a little greasiness in the back. I can take that moral high ground.

I'm a vegan and I got a Prius. I'm not fucking, I'm a double winner. It's so funny because when the, you know, the meteor that slams into earth next July and wipes out 30% of the population, you will never hear Nancy Grace or any Republican or any left-wing person say anything bad about that meteor. That meteor targeted babies in Chechnya.

That's where it landed. There are more babies in the town where that meteor landed than in all of Florida. That meteor had volume in its pockets. The meteor was black. It landed in a white neighborhood. Was it a racial meteor? That meteor did not know its father.

It did not know where it came shattering out from. So it's like the meteor is fine. No one judges the meteor, but human activity. That's the one piece of the universe that people get up in arms over. And that's the one piece of the universe that we have to forgive, because if we can just forgive that,

if somehow you can, and you don't have to forgive the whole, forgive forgiving like, if you're angry about Benghazi, fine. You don't worry about that. You're not gonna forgive that right now, but forgive your father for not being loving enough to you when you're a baby, because he was a bit of a drunk and he was freaking out

because he was at a war. Just work on that right now. And if you can do that and recognize that that's just a piece of the universe functioning the way the universe functions, then eventually you can maybe make it back to yourself. That's the idea, really. Just get to yourself right now.

And if you can forgive yourself, if you forgive yourself, then you will no longer see the reflection of your own internal judgment in the faces of the people around you. And if you can do that, then suddenly you'll be in a whole different universe because the universe we all exist in

is one where we're so terrified of the judgment of our peers. And I think that's a reflection of the judgment we put on ourselves. And if you can, like, if the judgment you're putting on yourselves is one where you've really gotten to the place where you realize you're an okay person,

you're just doing what you can do right now to be okay. And you're just trying to survive in a dimension where you're gonna die. And it's in the middle of a fucking void. It's a really intense existential situation to get into. So if you're, whatever you've done up to this point, chances are you're just trying to survive. You weren't like, I'm gonna hurt as many people as I can.

You were just like, fuck, man, I'm just trying to be okay. And I want my kids to be okay. Usually that's why people really do shitty things is for their kids. But whatever it is, you're just trying to survive. But if you can get to that place and then forgive whatever you've done

and how you are and how you act, then you will stop seeing that reflection in other people. The douchebag level in your universe will drop by 80%. There'll still be douchebags, but you won't see the douchebag of you reflecting the other people because you've embraced that part of yourself. I mean, that's been my experience with it.

It's kind of awesome. The more I'm judging myself, the more people around me are pricks. That's funny. That's an interesting concept that you put it out there. It's sort of a reverse secret. You're making your life shittier. Well, you're just trying to like not like,

you're trying to not, I mean, like, I don't know if you do it, Joe. Maybe you don't do it so much anymore, but you know, like some people, like we're really hard on ourselves. I'm very hard on myself. Right. Extremely hard.

I can flub one word of one joke and I won't sleep. I will fucking lie in bed and I will toss and turn. I don't like anything I do. I mean, I could say that's probably the best thing that I've done. And then I go, I could do better. And then I'm gone. And every time I edit a video, I just had to edit my special,

my comedy central special. While I'm editing, I'm like, editors are howling, laughing. And I'm like, When someone like you says something like that, I think that there is a sigh of relief that spreads through the planet where other artists are like, oh, thank God.

Well, I think we all feel like that. Cause we all hate it. We, the stuff that we're putting out are also terribly hard on ourselves for it. And I think that as a purpose, that can be okay. But I wonder how much of it is energy efficient. I wonder how much of it you really need

and how much of it is like way overdoing it out of superstition. Cause like, I think you probably need like 10% of that. You need 10% of like, no, I think we could refine that and make it better. But you don't need, I can't sleep right now because I'm such a failure that that would happen. I think that's a waste of energy

and it's actually gonna have the counter effect that you'd want it to have. And it's not gonna like increase the life of the material or the power inside the material. It's just gonna diminish it a little bit. Yeah, I think the heart in yourself thing comes from just you're the only one that can do it. You're the only one that can do Duncan Trussell.

I mean, when you're on stage and you're, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Duncan Trussell. There's one guy that can do that. You're the keeper of the Duncan Trussell act. If anyone's a Duncan Trussell fan, you're the person that has to deliver all the podcasts. You're the person that has to deliver all the comedy. And there's a great amount of responsibility with that.

A tremendous amount that I feel very, very intensely. And I think that's why I also enjoy doing it so much. Also, because I know that it has this sort of, it has as much as it could be a pitfall, like some of them think a joke's not funny or specials are my best one or whatever it was. Any negative thing that might think, the positive aspects of being a conduit

to as much positive information, as much interesting things, and as much inspirational thought as possible, way outweigh whatever weird negative thing that you have. And I think the weird negative thing you have is part of the learning process. I mean, I'm 47 years old, but I'm not done. By any stretch of the imagination.

That's one of the weird things about life, is that I think by the time your hormones start giving out, your bones start weakening, and your posture starts sagging, and your skin starts drooping, and your energy starts waning, you're just starting to figure this fucking thing out. It's rigged.

It's rigged. That is, you're right, man. It truly is rigged. You're just starting to figure it out to be you, and you hit your 40s. And it's like, god damn it. This is why if life extension happens, man, 20 year olds are fucked.

Like if all of a sudden a bunch of like, like no, oh come on. There's so much smarter than when we were 20. I don't think they're the same thing. 60 year olds, suddenly like you could give them a shot, and they look like they're 20 year olds. Same amount of money they have, same amount of everything. No one's, you can't, I couldn't compete with a 60 year,

a 60 year old who looked like he was 20. He was like. There's a lot of 60 year old dummies. That's true. But you know what I mean, man. There's something about like the, yes, no, I know exactly what you mean. All that aside, I do think that there,

it does seem to be that there is like, this is why I like the model of the universe as a class. Because it does seem to be that really when you start getting to the point where you could wield some serious power, that's when you start waning. And I think there's something beautiful about that. But some people say that no, that's not beautiful at all.

That's just a rationalization of a kind of malfunction in our DNA, and that we can fix it. We can god damn fix it. And there's no reason that we have to die. And in fact, there's no reason we have to get old. And the future people are gonna look at old people as a kind of genetic abnormality, a mutation that disease that we didn't even know

was a disease that we're just like, it's old age. Oh yes, it's old age. No, you have a disease. You have a disease that hasn't been cured yet. And it's gonna get cured. Well, that's very convenient to look at it that way. But the reality is it's not. We're trying to use up more time.

We want more time than nature intended, and there's a battle. Nature intended. That battle might be very similar to all the yin and yangs, the dealing with shitheads, making you a stronger person. Letting go. The people that grow up bullied won't wind up to be a very strong character

and a very averse to other bullying. And in matter of fact, oftentimes bully bullies. There's a lot of people that are, people that came out of poverty and they have this incredible compassion and lust for life because their life was shit when they were young. It's like, what is it that, it doesn't always work, but what is it that causes these rebounds

from terrible scenarios? And isn't that part of the whole thing? I think that the suffering of old age is an inevitability and we have to come to terms with it. But I like to imagine that if there is some invention, some technological advancement that can reverse the aging process, that what would happen,

and if people eventually live to be 2,000 years old, then when you do finally die from whatever occurrence, I think you wake up in paradise. Surrounded by your friends, they're like, why did you keep playing that shitty game? You're like in a party. Or if you're like, really? Why?

Dude, you played that fucking shit game all night. We wanted to hang out. And you're like in paradise. You can fly anything you imagine can happen. You were just basically freaking out like when you smoke too much weed and you find an Xbox at a party and just play, so you can ignore the party.

Maybe that's what life is. Maybe that's why we die. Not because it's an awful thing, but it's like you paid your debt, man. It's like somebody in prison being like, I'm gonna stay here another 30 years if you don't mind. I just wanna stay a little longer. You're right.

It's possible that that's what happens. It's possible that you reach some incredible state of bliss after you die and you feel ridiculous for trying to stay alive. It is possible. We don't know, though. That's what's scary. What's scary is the unknown.

What's scary is not the possibility that it could be awesome or the possibility that it could even be awful or there could be some hell. I passed. I was driving on the street to your house and on one of the main streets when we're coming off the off ramp, off the off ramp, rather, there's this sign.

Which place do you wanna go? Heaven or hell? Have you seen it? No. Oh, it's awesome. It has a number that you can call. You can feel like something blah, blah, blah, truth. Oh, I've seen that.

I called the number. I know what you're talking about. I called the number. A guy picked up. What did he say? I got off a phone. It was too weird. It felt like it was at a guy's house.

Like, that's how few calls he gets. Like, it's a guy. He's put billboards all over the country and he gets like three calls a week. And they're all prank calls. It's all people beating off each other, right? I wanna go to hell, friend. Tell me about Satan's asshole.

Right before I come. What color is it? Is it black? I always imagine it was black. Is it true Satan's asshole has a clitoris? I've heard that. Red, but then the end, the right, the butthole. This, the ring is black.

Sort of like when you get a clam, a steam clam, and you pull that fucking shell off of it. And you have the condom, they pull up, they get the very end of it, it's black. You know, the tip of the, the clam's long neck. That's a great question to ask any theologians out there. Is it, does Satan have an asshole? Is he, does he shit?

In your mouth, only in your mouth cause you asked for all eternity. And I shit six times a day. That's hell. Satan shits in your mouth all day. And he only does it when you ask. Wait a minute, does Satan have, does he, shit? Does Satan eat?

We got one. Yeah, it's a good question, man. And, is that your phone? No, that's yours, but. It's on the ground. What time's your show? Oh, boy, it is my, the show's at 10. It's only 35.

We gotta wrap it up. It's only 10 minutes, only 10 minutes. Okay, another 10 minutes. I'm later on the show. Okay, great, I gotta pee. Let me grab you another beer. Okay, perfect. You know what, man?

The best part about that sci-fi show that we did was you and I hanging out. That was the best part. It was so much fun. You know, I mean, this isn't appropriate for the podcast, but you're, you know, you're one of my favorite human beings. I love you. You're one of mine.

And I love doing anything with you. Go in the grocery store. If you say, hey, man, I'm going to Whole Foods today. You wanna come with me? I feel like, okay, I'll shop with you. You know, I just think, you know, and especially as we get older in this life, and you and I have been friends for a long time.

I mean, we became friends back when you were the talent coordinator at the comedy store. We essentially met on the phone, you know? I mean, that's when we really started becoming really good friends. Yeah, years ago. Yeah, we would have these cool conversations when you were the guy that would answer the phone.

So the coordinator at the comedy store is like, you'd call up and say, hey, I'm gonna be in town Tuesday through Thursday. So, and then they would, you know, throw everybody's name into like a list and whoever, you know, got spot, you know, whoever called in to get spots in time, that's how they would make the schedule.

And so I would call in Duncan. I'd give him my days, I should say you because you're right here. Yeah. I know what I'm talking to. And then we became friends. It was really cool. We'd have these weird conversations.

You'd be like, let me ask you something. And then we'd start talking. And then we'd have these like, almost like podcast like conversations. That's right. Way back then we would have these long, long conversations. Then we started doing some comedy together,

going on the road together. You know, you got passed as a paid regular at the store and you started doing, you know, doing gigs. And so it's all amazing to watch it all happen, isn't it? Fuck yeah, man. It's gotta be cool to be a mentor. It's gotta be rad to like shepherd someone. And then like, it's cool, man.

That's, you do that for a lot of people. You do that for me, Ari, Diaz, a lot of people, man. It's a really cool thing to do. Well, I needed you guys as much as you needed me, you know? I think I'm a very friendly person in a lot of ways. I'm a big supporter of the idea that you, it takes a whole group of people to sort of excel together. You don't, do you ever see that movie?

What's that fucking movie? Into the wild, where that kid dies out there. And one of the things, before he died, he was writing things down in his journal and he was saying, essentially paraphrasing, that it's all meaningless unless you have someone to share it with. And that's true.

There's nothing that I've ever experienced in my life that is enjoyable by myself. It's all like, one of the most beautiful things about having a family is to be able to experience this family with the person you had the family with. Like if you get married and you have kids, the weirdest thing is gonna be this bond that you have with this person

that you're raising this family with. And then you develop a weird, like Eddie Bravo and I, we've always been super close. I mean, we've been best friends forever. But we have like another level of our friendship because we both have children. We talk about it. We talk about like, he'll talk to me about

how amazing it is watching this kid learn and how fun it is to see him play and enjoy himself and to teach him things. And there's this amount of love that he has for his kid for his wife and the bond that they have together raising this kid. It's a phenomenal, fascinating thing. And it seems like a lot of people think of family

and one thing and friendship and another thing. I think of it as all people you love. It's all people you love. And you and Diaz and Ari and Eddie Bravo and Red Band and Tate and there's a lot of people I love, man. There's a lot of people I love. And I think the more people that you surround yourself with that you appreciate and you have fun with and you laugh with

and I mean, we have some fun fucking times. Just that time, you and I Sasquatch and was so ridiculous. One of the best. That was one of the best times of my life. I'll never forget that. You were laughing so hard all day. It was so fun, man.

Watching that goddamn drone. Fly over the woods looking for something that doesn't exist. You and I are cracking up. You're giving me like edible weeds. So I'm getting more and more stone. I'm in the woods. I'm so blasted.

That was so fun, man. So much fun. How much did you, what was the bet? Was it 100 bucks that you could make a fire in the rain? 100 bucks. Duncan made a fire in the rain. No, but that was a cheap bet. I shouldn't have taken the bet.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was very impressive. I found a clump of wood that was like shielded from the rain. That's not cheating at all. That's exactly what you're supposed to do. You did the smartest thing. It was pouring rain out. And Duncan was like, I'm gonna make a fire.

I'm like, bitch, you can't make no fire. And you're roasting me. I'm trying to make the fire in front of the crew. And like Rogan is like, it just, like, it's the- I was heckling. It was heckling, but nonstop. Like, you'll never do it. Just like everything in your life.

You were trying to take it to like, only the level of comedian can. It turned like me making the fire into like a representation of failure, success, how it was so intense. I think at one point making the fire, my hand was trembling with rage. Like, I'm gonna make this fucking fire.

But yeah. But then I started turning around on me when it was pretty obvious that you had a fire. I'm like, God damn, I don't want to have to pay this mother fucker. It was so great. I'm such a loser. That was a fun night, man.

It was so fun. That was really cool. Also, man, you know, that thing I loved was the, that, when we did that show, was that in going to that goddamn Galveston disease research center and interviewing the head of it. And as I'm looking at him, I'm realizing the look on his face,

we're kind of like making jokes and everything. But it's the look on the face of somebody who like, knows they have a limited amount of time to come up with vaccines for stuff because it's an inevitability of the outbreak. And I remember being there and they took us to the part where there's Ebola and they were trying to come up with a vaccine for Ebola

because they knew what's happening right now is gonna happen. And I just will never forget the way that guy's face looked, man, because he's somebody who wasn't gonna be funny in this life. Because he's somebody who knew the inevitability of an outbreak and God damn it, he was right. It fucking happened.

He was right. In hindsight, it's pretty incredible. That was one of the main things they were worried about, Ebola and other what they call hemorrhagic viruses. Yes. And they had a room where they kept these intense diseases shielded by this super thick wall. Remember that?

Yep. And they had all these, they had everywhere you go, there was like all these ways that they made sure that it's on the floor, the fuck, that all these ways that they made sure that people, let me shut it off. I don't know, it could be more. I don't know, okay.

They had all these ways that they made sure that these diseases could never get into the air supply, they could never get outside the building. They had all these air scrubbers and all these filters in place and all these like checks and balances. HEPA filters in sub basements. Yeah, we had to put on spacesuits and shit and walk around

and then they wanted me to go into the actual room with all the shit it's up and I was like, pass. No, not gonna happen. Remember that? I put my foot down, I was like, dude. But they had like oxygen filters above them that could suck the oxygen out of the air into the filters. But when you see that that we were in

and now look at the pictures in Africa, there's no fucking HEPA filter. There's the guy wearing a goddamn fireman's outfit surrounded by dead people with like a dog gnawing at a kid's head. That's what's happening in Africa. So that's why they're freaking out right now and saying, oh no, no, no, this is bad.

This is worse than we think it's gonna be, man. This is bad, bad. This shit's gonna mutate. That's what they're worried about. That's why Obama's sending 1,000 troops over there, man, because what's that gonna do? Yeah, shoot the virus. Yeah, what are you gonna fucking?

Bring Jesus, throw Bibles at the Bible. Yeah, throw Bibles at the Bible. That's a great, that's a funny exhibit. Like an art exhibit where you get to throw a Bible at the Bible. Double blast for me. Throw Bibles at the Bible. Hit a Bible with a Bible and you get two Bibles.

I want you to take a picture of me throwing a Bible at the Bible. I want to take it to Kat Von D and she's gonna tattoo it on me. This is me tattooing a Bible and a Bible. Man, you ain't even supposed to get a tattoo in the Bible. Fuck, man, god damn it. These are great.

It's so fun doing these with you, man. Fun doing them with you too, man. We gotta do it more often. So we were talking about this too, is like one of the weird things about both of us being real busy and doing a bunch of things that we love to do is that sometimes we just don't get time to hang out unless we podcast each other.

It's satanic. Well, it's sort of like, what's the other scenario that would bring us together with no one around? If I said, hey, Duncan, come on over my house, man. I just want to sit down at the kitchen table with you and just let's just talk for an hour. You'd be like, oh, what the fuck is this? Okay.

Ew, what's he gonna tell me? Oh, Jesus Christ. This is some gay shit. It would be, no, it's either gay or like death. Whatever it is, isn't gonna be good. Yeah, it's not like, hey, let's just laugh silly geese for two hours and have fun and philosophize and just pick each other's brain.

And one of the things that I really enjoy about talking to you is that I feel like my own thoughts are better when I talk to you. Like there's a few people in my life, my own thought. Like we have a very unique frequency that we sort of like tune into together. And we have the little back and forth of a conversation which is a lot, like a podcast is a lot like a dance.

You know, you're dancing with that person. And you and I have great dance partners. And so we have this sort of this thing where I'm a better, I'm a better podcaster when I do it with you. Yeah, man, it's cool. Yeah, it is a, it's like a, some kind of like weird ping pong game

or dance or whatever. Yeah, and it's, yeah, I feel the same way, man. You are one of the few people on earth who can frighten me. And I've never been around somebody who, I can remember in the only first hour of podcasting together, you would say stuff, you would start saying stuff where I wanted to stop the podcast because I thought you'd get arrested.

Like, I can remember like some of the stuff you, whenever you would start getting it going on about the military industrial complex or which we didn't get to, I wish we had in this podcast cause I really wanted to talk about ISIS with you. But like, God damn it, where I'm like, oh no, no, that's, you gotta shut it down, man. But I guess that wasn't a valid fear

because it seems like no harm has come because of any of the information that you put out there. But almost, you know, as much as people like to believe that there's some kind of force inhibiting freedom of expression or shutting down the free flow of ideas, it seems like you're an example of how that can't be true because you are all, you're giving people a microphone, so many of the guests on your show,

you're putting a microphone in front of people who have very extreme ideas that if you believe there is some monolithic power trying to suppress autonomy and freedom, then they would try to shut you down really quickly. I don't think there is a monolithic power. I think that's a big mistake that people make. I think the system itself, and this is something

we discussed at dinner, the system itself is so impossible to wrangle. The idea that there is any one group or many groups, whatever it is, that somehow or another have control over the way human culture. They have control over aspects of our lives. Like the military industrial complex certainly has control over certain decisions that they make

as far as military action. Without a doubt, I mean, it's pretty obvious. There's certain things that get justified that don't make any sense. There's a lot of people that have suspicions about the motivations of a bunch of different military exercises that just so happen to revolve around an area that has tremendous natural resources, whatever it is.

The people that are involved at the very highest level, they could give two fucks about someone like me. What they wanna make sure is the generals listen to them, and they wanna make sure that the military people listen to them. I'm much more inclined to take the position that you need military than you don't. I'm much more inclined to support the Rangers

or the Navy SEALs, so anybody would think that I'm an anti-military person. I'm aware of human nature. I would be thrilled if everybody could get their shit together, and the world would be filled with beautiful people. But much like we talked about earlier, when shitty people have shitty people,

and they grow up in shitty circumstances, and they have horrible things happen to them when they're younger, and they become sociopaths, and they see a lot of death, they see a lot of murder, and then you have to interact with them in the world. You don't have a whole lot of options. There's not a whole lot of altruistic options for fixing certain scenarios.

And that's how Genghis Khan won. I mean, because it wasn't a U.S. military back then. If Genghis Khan came around today on horseback with his fucking bows and arrows, we would send a couple of stealth bombers. We'd light that bitch up like a Christmas tree. There'd be a bunch of awesome live leak videos of like weirdos and horses just vaporized.

With conch shells. Oh, no! Look, stealth bombers coming at supersonic speed. Before that, even before that, drones. Fucking flying R2-D2s, shooting rocket dicks towards them. They wouldn't even know what the fuck it was. Well, yeah, I mean, that is, you know, if you want to talk about one of the great

blasphemies you can utter these days, it is that, guess what? There could be a need for defense. There could be, there really could be the potential for, this is what you're talking about. It's the idea is, what operating system do you want running in the planet that you're living on? What do you want the majority of people operating system,

do you want them to be running? Do you want it to be an operating system that has within it the potential for space migration? Or do you want it to be an operating system where every woman has to dress like a beekeeper? Which one do you want? Yeah, which one, where are the chicks and bikinis? Oklahoma, I'll take that.

Fuck space migration. They're drinking Budweiser and they're sucking dicks after the fucking sun goes down. We listen to the country music, they got a loop, Ryan on the car stereo, the doors wide open, the windows rolled down, and they're making out on the hood. It sucks we have to close on this

because I can already see the conspiracy theory thread. Of course. Duncan Trussell and Joe Rogan are CIA. They support the military industrial problem. No, I don't. I would, look, I support everyone doing a massive breakthrough level of psychedelics to the point where war becomes impossible.

Me too. I really do. I mean, that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I think there's plenty of potential areas of conflict as far as competition for resources, competition for creating new innovative products and selling things and doing, but I think along the way,

we've got this idea that it can only be done one way, capitalism must be evil, it must be callous, it must be, I feel like there's gotta be a potential for a conscious capitalism. I believe that it's there. I really do. I do too. I believe there's probably also a profit

in cleaning up the ocean, recycling some of that plastic. I think there's probably a profit in figuring out some new way to develop new forms of energy, new forms of energy through sucking pollution out of the air and converting it to some usable fuel. I think there's a lot of different possibilities that we're gonna see over the next few years.

I mean, the amount of innovation that's going on right now, and every day you go to various websites, you know. It's too much. There's technology methods. You can't even process it anymore. It's too much. It's too much. Person to person technologically enhanced telepathy.

Incredible. Incredible. Does it even fucking hit the mainstream media that long? It's like a subtext underneath everything else. It's so amazing that this stuff is like, it's not being suppressed, it's being ignored because people are so, it's happening so much. It's like, yeah, okay, whatever.

Did you see Real Housewives? That one girl, such a fucking bitch. I hate her. Oh God, it's so good. She's so fucking bitchy. I want a smacker. I watch that show. That's my show.

Oh my God, that's my show. But it will, it's so beautiful because it will be born. It will spring out of the delusion or awareness. It doesn't matter. The goddamn thing's gonna happen and we're right on the precipice of it, man. And I think that's a wonderful incarnation to take.

Yeah, well, we are because we're here but they were on the precipice of it in 1812 as well. And they were fucking first doing Morse code. Da-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. This is crazy. There's fucking people in New York and I told them to suck my dick. He said, fuck you.

This is amazing. We're the one species that does that. Like you never see squirrel. I guess dogs. Dogs do it. Dogs do it. Dogs are like, holy shit. You gave me a carrot.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. That's so true. I get so excited if you give them a treat. You got a show to do, man. We gotta wrap it up. Yeah, I gotta go. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, brother.

Let's do it again. Let's start a regular monthly, bi-monthly podcast. I'll do it every week. You wanna do one once a week. I would do it. Let's do it next week. All right, next week. Okay, next week.

All right, let's do it next week. Hare Krishna. Thanks, Joe. Bye. Thanks for listening, everybody. That was Joe Rogan. You can listen to his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience,

by going to joerogan.net. And if you like this podcast, why not be a sweetie and give us a nice review on iTunes? And don't forget to bookmark our Amazon portal. And don't forget to pet your dogs and cats and for once do something nice for somebody who doesn't deserve it.

I love you. I'll see you soon. Hare Krishna. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Rush Truck Centers would like to help you jumpstart

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