Duncan Trussell Family Hour - LOU BARLOW!!!!

Episode Date: June 25, 2013

Lou Barlow (Sebadoh, Dinosaur Jr, Folk Implosion, Sentridoh) joins the DTFH and talks about his recent seperation, music, and EVERYTHING!!!

Good evening, morning, hello friends and thank you for listening to the Dunkin' Trussell Family Hour podcast voted by the NSA and the TSA to be the safest podcast in America today. I'm very proud of that title and it's really exciting to me so you can expect to hear this podcast being piped in when you go through security checkpoints, not just at airports but the upcoming security checkpoints that are going to be at shopping malls and bus stations and subways. Very exciting to me because I get so nervous when I'm not getting padded down every couple of hours. Today's podcast has Lou Barlow who for me is one of my favorite musicians and I've got a really sentimental attachment to his music because

I will always associate his music with a time in my life when I got knocked off track which I consider to be a really good thing and when I say knocked off track I mean if you're lucky you will encounter a person or a philosophy or psychedelics or a style of music. Usually all those things get mixed together but you'll come into contact with something that pushes you away from the course of your life that was generally dictated by the whims of your parents or whatever geographical terrain you happen to get blasted out of a pussy into. Generally when you get knocked off track you know it's happening because people around you like who have been trying to condition you and keep you marching in a certain direction

will start getting nervous for you or worried about you and sometimes rightfully so because getting knocked off track doesn't always mean that things end up great. It doesn't always mean that you recover from getting knocked off track. Some people get knocked off track by the wrong person and go down a terrible dark meth spiral that ends with them covered and claw marks all over their face and venereal warts and scabies and stinking of whatever dumpster they happen to be sleeping in. It's not always it's not safe getting knocked off track isn't safe but neither is not getting knocked off track. I mean if you don't get knocked off track you can end up in a tremendously terrible situation just a different kind of

situation. Sure you're clean because you have access to a shower but inside if you don't get knocked off track you can be this bubbling mass of pain and sadness and bitterness because you're locked into the vice of whatever specific iron mask you allowed to get clamped around your head that you pretended was your personality or who you were and ended up at a bank job that you hate or in a two-story suburban house on the breeding grid blasting loads into a woman that you fell out of love with three days after the honeymoon and now feel attached to because you've produced offspring that depend on you for everything and you desperately try to hide from them your misery even though it radiates off of you and great blasts and

streams of sad horror so that your kids become infected with your cowardice and end up much like you getting lost in the world of corporations and emptiness and this can go on for generation after generation after generation. Both sides are pretty dangerous because it's dangerous to exist on a planet as a human being that is floating in an enormous vacuum and has caused the extinction of countless species throughout the millennia. I think Doug Stanhope sums up the dangers of ending up in a shit life far better than whatever that rambling monologue was and I want to play for you. This is actually a comedy bit from Doug Stanhope who if you've never listened to Doug Stanhope immediately go to his website Dougstanhope.com.

Not only is he R. Bill Hicks, he's also an amazing writer and he posts essays up on his website all the time but before we get into Lou Barlow and Lou Barlow's music I'm going to play for you this bit by Doug Stanhope which unfortunately some asshole added folk music to which you should never just don't do that if you find something that you like if you find some kind of rant or a comedy bit or some kind of monologue that doesn't have folk music behind it or techno music behind it don't add the techno music you're not helping if you want to distribute great information out into the world go ahead and do it but you don't have to add a soundtrack to it it doesn't make it any better if you

put skrillex behind anything it in fact will make it seem dumber you could put skrillex under the I have a dream speech and the I have a dream speech goes from being one of the most inspired speeches in human history to something you might hear a coke addled beat poet saying in the urinal of cheap nightclub so don't add music to stuff I couldn't find a version of this bit that didn't have music underneath it so I'm just going to play it but this is what this is a great bit about what happens if you don't get knocked off course or what can you see some people stuck in their shitty lives remember scared straight that program the documentary in the late seventies they brought all these delinquent kids in

a prison who are on the wrong path they yelled at them all the prisoners told them about anal rape and all these horrible things to scare them straight and most of them did did you see the 20 year reunion they did a 20 year reunion where they caught up with all these kids 20 years later and they all went straight except for one or something but they were the most gray dead ugly people you've ever seen in your lives are just miserable and hunched over they got factory jobs working at the dairy plant or the pipe manufacturing company and you know they all wish they had a sack full of drinks money right now out there on the lamb wish that dairy plant had a scared straight program when they were 18 you want

to be like me you think this is funny motherfucker you're just going to work here as a summer job until you get your shit together that's what you think that's what I thought 40 years look at my fucking eyes motherfucker 40 years give me your goddamn shoes give me your shoes that's from stan opes album take the edge off you should get the album if you haven't heard it and if you never listened to Doug stan ope just put his name in a youtube he is one of the greats but that's what happens you can end up in the dairy factory or you can end up in a in a in a cubicle you can end up in all kinds of weird tricky places I've got I've gotten trapped in a desk job before and it happens in this amazingly slow

way where just it's gradually just kind of get drawn into this comfort the comfort that comes with the job is spectacular and that you know every couple of weeks you're going to get this exact amount of money that you can feed into the ATM and if you don't have a regular job if you're freelancing then you just don't know when those checks go in that's the last check that goes in and then after that you don't know what's going to happen it's terrifying and sometimes you have kids so and you got to take care of them you can't just go wandering off into the streets pretending to be Jesus or go up into the mountains because your karma is that you have children that you need to take care of and I'm definitely

not advocating being irresponsible you do have to deal with the truth of your situation I think sometimes for some people the truth of the situation is that you have to transform whatever specific thing that you happen to have gotten trapped into into something that teaches you and something that compels you to work really really hard to get out of the trap this is something Ram Dass talks about when he talks about spiritual practice he calls those traps he says that any type of true spiritual practice should be a self-destructing trap which lures you into it you begin to you know follow whatever the specific dogma is or ceremony or patterns of the thing and then if the thing is true then you begin to

realize that you don't need the dogma anymore and you don't need the patterns of the thing and you don't need whatever specific discipline that went along with the religion or spiritual path that you picked up you begin to realize that the thing was inside you all the time and so it falls apart well I guess that's what everything should be like really is over time everything just goes from being manacles keeping you clamped down and some shit life to a kind of jungle gym set where if you can if you have the skill and the mindfulness and the willpower then you can use whatever the thing is to gain enough strength to break free from it like in the Conan movie where they put him on whatever that horse track

is and somehow from pushing that log around in a circle over the course of 15 years he gets like a weight lifter's body as though somewhere on that horse track there was a triceps machine and some human growth hormone so we all get trapped I'm not saying to quit whatever you're in or to stop whatever you're in just recognize that if you are in a situation and by the way sometimes people will like send me emails reprimanding me because sometimes we on this podcast or when I go in Rogan's podcast will always use the term like trapped in a cubicle and people will write and say I love my job and I'm in a cubicle why do you talk down to us like that and I can see I would seem pretentious or pompous for somebody

who's like yeah he's just he does a podcast and isn't in that situation to be talking about it is but I've been in that situation number one and number two what I'm saying is has been validated recently in the news where a Gallup poll showed that something like 80% of workers don't like their jobs which isn't a mind blowing surprise to me but the 80% of them had mentally checked out from their jobs so I'm not saying anything brand new if you're somebody who works in a cubicle and you're enjoying it well you're one of the lucky 20% or 30% but a lot of people don't like it a lot of people end up you know a lot of people are in a kind of terrible coma one of my friends just with

just actually walked out of his job because he couldn't take it anymore he walked out of his job he had the guts to finally tell his boss to fuck off and walked out of the job and it was terrifying there's no guarantee that if you if you you have to be smart there's no guarantee that escaping from a specific type of trap is going to lead to a Disney movie ending it doesn't always work like that if it works like that then everyone at this very moment would go pouring into the streets from the terrible high rises where they had found themselves wrapped in glass and steel having their life energy and their time extracted from them by corporate vampires who transform it into gobs of money that they then use to

fuel their wild Illuminati sex parties where they mouth fuck Tibetan monks who they have had shipped in from China anyway I'll always I always have a kind of a I'll always have a sentimental feeling towards Lou Barlow and towards his various bands because I associate his music with a time when I was getting a lot of information downloaded into my brain which was when I was in college and I was just learning about existentialism and I was lucky enough to have made friends with this lunatic named Emil Amos who ended up starting a band called the Holy Sons and who now plays drums in a band called Ohm and has been in the podcast a few times but he was the guy who introduced me to this genre of music but not just this

genre of music but a kind of ethic that goes along with it which is this ethic of brutal honesty with oneself and that sounds when you hear it being honest with yourself I think a lot of people pretend that they're being honest with themselves or like to think that they're completely honest with themselves but this level of honesty that I learned about what you can find if you read the myth of Sisyphus by Camus or check out maybe read the Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky or if you start examining some Sart or Nietzsche all the kind of stuff that you end up encountering when you're in college if you go to a liberal arts school if you read that stuff it's a type of honesty that undercuts whatever the zeitgeist or the conditioning happens to be it

goes underneath everything and from that's undercutting it it can from reading it it can actually cause you to start walking with a philosophical limp because you begin to realize that maybe your whole life you've been lying to yourself about what you really like or who you really are what you really want because a lot of people just pretend that they want what they want they act like the life that they're living is really the life that they want to be living and they've gotten so good at pretending that that's the life that they want that they actually forget their real dreams this is one of the worst forms of the walking dead that exists I mean you're worse than a zombie when this happens because a zombie knows what it wants a zombie wants human

flesh it wants to fill its mouth with the hot warm guts of the living this form of zombie it doesn't even know what it's it's eating food that it doesn't like it's it's usually with a woman or a man that it's settled for not it's it's usually in relationships that are these lukewarm tepid little things that are just based on safety and comfort and have no spark or passion inside of them and this kind of zombie will like try to gain success in fields that it has no interest in it'll try to become a who knows an actor or a real estate agent or something it just doesn't even want to do and sometimes this zombie will actually get success in that field but everything that it gets it it doesn't satisfy it at all which is why sometimes you'll meet very successful

people and it looks like the grim reaper has chiseled out the interior of their face just underneath the skin and their face kind of drops backwards into their head and they have these like just giant black circles under their eyes and this bleary tired look they look like zombies and the reason they look like that is because they haven't been eating the right food not literally eating the right food but eating the food of life that they really crave for example when you go and watch grizzly man you see Timothy Treadwell who is clearly a gay man who is pretending to be straight and because he can't handle probably what his real sexuality is he's gone wandering off into the wilderness to try to hang out with grizzly bears because for him it's easier

to be around the most ferocious animals on earth than it is to deal with the truth of who you really is and that's what it is for a lot of people a lot of people would rather eat breakfast with a wild grizzly bear than eat breakfast with their true selves and so there's certain kinds of music and there's certain types of philosophy that act like garlic or crucifixes to vampires when it when it comes to this sort of person where when they hear it for the first time they think that they're sometimes they'll think that they're just listening to like a crazy person or a retarded person singing that's what I thought the first time I heard Daniel Johnston it was like horrifying to me because at the time I was so closed in and pretending to be happy when I was

absolutely miserable and quite often would pretend that I was telling the truth when in fact I was just lying about how I felt or who I really was and when you come into contact with someone who's a musician like Daniel Johnston Nick Drake Lou Barlow Elliot Smith when you come into contact with someone who is honestly articulating exactly how they feel you're listening to what I would consider heroism you're listening to it takes your like sonic courage because it it takes like it I don't know what I don't know how you do it actually I don't know but what it does when you hear this level of honesty is it activates the honest part of yourself and if you've been hiding from yourself it can have the same effect on you that you know getting paranoid from smoking weed you know it's

the same thing can happen like if you smoke really powerful marijuana and you've been hiding shit from yourself then suddenly you will go into a paranoid episode because you begin to think about all the all this shit that you've been trying to ignore whatever it is from the most mundane stuff like you need to clean your house to the deepest stuff like you're totally not in love with the person that you're married to and all that stuff will come swirling and spiraling up out of your subconscious and it's it can be brutal and that's what creates the bad marijuana trips that you hear so many people complain about well philosophy and music and art of a certain type can have that same exact effect on you it's the effect of coming into contact with truth and when you come into

contact with truth quite often not all the time but quite often it's a painful thing especially if you've been being dishonest to yourself for most of your life it just hurts it feels weird it feels crazy when I first heard Daniel Johnston I thought that I was hearing like actual satanic music and really what I was hearing is someone who is being honest but I was so I was I'd been lying to myself for so long that my brain told me that truth was equal to Satan but like all think like all tough truths or weird truths or hard truths what ends up happening is if you don't run away from it and you begin to contemplate it and roll it around in your head the thing that seems so dark and horrific you begin to find is actually one of the most beautiful things that you've ever come in contact

with this is also true not just for music and art it's true when you get like a cancer diagnosis for example a thing that initially seems so awful nightmarish and monstrous can quite often be the thing that turns you into a human being and helps you appreciate life maybe for the first time ever okay sorry for the long-winded rant you guys but if you're upset about these rants I'm surprised you still listen to the podcast and if you're really upset about them then I have some I'm about to blow your fucking mind here you can skip ahead on this stuff because it's not on TV so I'm not sure what device you're using oh irritable asshole who's upset because I rambled too long at the beginning of my podcast but there's a there's an arrow that moves around when you move your

mouse you can take that arrow and see that timeline with the blue line rolling through it or whatever the color of the line is you can just skip ahead jerk you don't have to listen to this it's your fault you listen to it and if it was so horrible even if you were driving you should have just pulled over Jesus leave me alone just trying to get it out man okay here is a track from the centredo album weed foreston which is available at lubicorps.com and it's called new worship no one everything you see was meant to be safe and sound

move your body back and forth around me all my friends are killing me all my friends all my friends are killing me I thank God she's Okay, I'm gonna play one more Lou Barlow song this song is called Sorry this song is called don't call me writer and I saw Lou Barlow play this live and it melted my brain If you ever get a chance to see him live go see him live. I'm gonna play this one more song

Which I think is a really good example of this style of music and And and then we're gonna get going this podcast Put After 15 years Well, it's driving past me by it's happening too soon Is My good friend

I Let me Part of my brain My confidence Past is kicked my Oh I no To describe

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You get two audio books which you can then listen to to drown out the sound of Whatever you happen to be near just stick those of your buds in and The auditory version of reality goes away. I gotta stop talking All right, everyone. I think I've done enough build-up for this podcast today's guest is In the band sebedo is in the band centrado Co-founder of the band dinosaur jr. A

Legend of music go to his website Lubicor.com Download the new sebedo album which is coming out. I think in less than a month. I Will play a track from the new sebedo album at the end of this podcast which I found on SoundCloud and Go check them out now everyone. Please welcome to the Dugger Trussell family our my musical hero the legend Lou Barlow Lou Barlow

Welcome to the Dugger Trussell family hour Thank you. Thanks for doing this doing the show the last time you did this show was with and When I was the lavender hour when I was still in Natasha. Yep, and that really sweet place near Ivanhoe elementary Yes, that was a sweet. That is a sweet pad Yeah, I saw some people in your your old driveway the other day because I was walking my daughter by there I'm sure I'm sure there's always people there having fun eating fruit Dancing there's a lot of canopies in those yards back there now, you know those party canopy thing Yeah, people enjoying it. It's a hotel, California out there. I'm sure that's what it's like over there

I'm non-stop orgies wine fountains. I don't know about that Yeah, I know what the context. I know it is it's right the elementary school is right there, so I know it for Right elementary school area. Yeah. Yeah, that it will right. I shouldn't have said yeah Orges have ever happened here at elementary school. No, it's Yeah, I'm sure they have they're ever they're everywhere not fun Don't want to go to an orgy. That's never been something. I've been drawn to hmm. Have you Pause of course you're a rock star you go no, no, I mean I've never Yeah, but I guess

I've been curious about what actually yeah to be honest. Yeah, I'm too and I mean I know that it would be weird and it would be like But I guess just it's a part of a human experience. It's sort of red is a young age I was like I thought that seemed like a good idea Right as an adult, of course, you understand what the the big picture is but when I was younger It was sort of Something I was kind of fascinated by so I think I'm too insecure to go to an orgy is the problem I can barely go to a pool without feeling just like I'm this

Disgusting pit demon that crawled into the pool much less an orgy. Well, I would just like a Observing it or just under just being seeing what was actually How people were interacting with each other? I don't know How I would react in a sexual way, but I know that just at least mentally or Have to say I'm a little curious now I want to go to one my friend goes to me was it telling me all about it and he said like there's different You know like that they'll have like sometimes swingers will get a hotel and they'll have different room like different orgy rooms And so like there's rooms where you can just go and watch

Yeah, but then there's rooms where if you're there you've got to fuck like there's no choice Well, you always have a choice If you don't you're yeah, if you don't it's bat you're in prison You don't it's You never want to hear that you never want to hear there's no choice, but to fuck here well Nine times out of ten. That's a bad thing to hear. I yeah So what's been going on I didn't mean to I'm sorry we opened up on them weird with the orgy talk. No, it was interesting actually Sorry, I don't feel really articulate

Turn out. Okay. Yes I haven't smoked in a while so oh, yeah, I'm sorry, you know that that's actually Your leaf that's fairly mild. I know marijuana. That's the PCP in there that's strong Yeah Yeah, that's funny. I Haven't spoke I haven't I've sort of stopped smoking pot regularly and then my life really changed Like what we were talking about. I was trying to figure out the correlation between the two for Like Reese very recently I was thinking about it because pot would always

Managed to give me these great moments where I just examined everything that was going on in my life Or if I had a disagreement with somebody I Would just think about it so much and find ways around it or see how see how maybe the other person felt I really considered it to to be a really like part of my empathy or it was very I But then I guess recently looking back on it. I wonder if it was actually something that Really made me avoid a lot of stuff in my life, you know I'm just in that cliche way that they say drugs do but I never really believed because I always thought pot was really something that was about discovery and and

Since I've kind of been off of it for You know a lot, you know like at least nine or ten months, so wow, so it's made me I've kind of had to re-examine what it's Rolling my life was and Well, it can goddamn be and it's an addiction for some people. I mean that's the the somehow marijuana has managed to squirm its way into a category for some people where they've like just decided it's it's They smoke insane amounts of it. Yeah, no people who like I mean there's musicians that I know that are like They will smoke and ate the day easy and they can't even keep it on tour with them because they they literally they just literally Wake up and smoke it

Copious amounts all day long. Yeah And I've never done that I've never done that. I've but I have I mean I've gotten close where I've been I've gone into eating it and stuff Where I'll like wake up and chomp on it and I've done that I actually I did that fairly recently in my life That was my last kind of that was the last bit that actually kind of scared me out of daily use of Marijuana was eating it. Oh, that's a massive paranoid attacks. Yes Those attacks are amazing. They're almost like seizures or something. Yeah, I mean they generally would resolve themselves nicely But the onset of them was terrifying, you know like

really Especially because I have kids and stuff, right? I mean when I have that kind of responsibility that I carry around it's like It's not like it was when you're younger. You're like, oh, I think I'm gonna die right now I'm gonna get hit by a cut you know, it's like it becomes much more just Devastatingly I can't die because I have to take care of my kids I know and you're thinking about the children and all of the possibilities for them It's like you're pop though what you're thinking about all the possibilities all the worst-case scenarios are Multiplied. Yeah, you know, it's not just about your little worst-case scenario. It's about all

Everyone around you and the people that you take care of their worst-case scenario. So there's a maloosie K joke and I can't remember how it goes It's I don't even know if I've I don't have the whole joke even memorized, but I remember him saying if you Look if you don't have kids, you're you're nothing you're really just nothing you're just a piece He's like you don't have anything to take care of you don't know what it's like you don't understand And I think that that's a harsh way of saying something that I've heard reflected in so many different of my friends who have kids Which is that you really don't understand until you cross over that threshold when suddenly you have this being that Is looking at you in a spin in the most loving way that depends on you and yeah

Yeah, I know man. I don't that's the problem I'm able to just kind of run a muck through my life because I don't have I don't I have a room But I have an electronic robot vacuum cleaner. That's the supplants yeah, but That's okay Actually, I yeah, I'm more understand. I think there is a time when I was a bit smug about it. I guess you know like being a parent Like yeah, you don't know

But but you know what it's okay, but you know some it's like I don't know I don't know just I guess recently just with myself. It's like it doesn't it doesn't like being having this I don't know. It's hard to describe but I mean, it's like uh God, I'm being I can't can you talk about what we were talking about before. Yeah, well Well, I would say like okay, you're saying like if I when I didn't have kids It's like I could do anything I wanted. Yeah, but now that I do have kids, you know what I can do anything I want right it took a while to come to that

realization, you know to go that like actually um I can Follow my instincts still and I can still you know even This is hard. I mean, I don't know basically I can I can still take risks and I can still and I can actually um, you know, we're all still kind of You know singular people that are struggling with what we want to do and what we want from life and what we

You know, and we all do we do can make those decisions and even when you have children and I feel like I'm I feel like I'm wandering out until like a like really thin ice by talking about this because I haven't really figured it out but um I don't know like uh For myself like I made some really huge decisions in my life. Yeah, and I have children Yes, and I have a huge thing that I was the thing that I was taking and I just had this You know, I'm like, I'm gonna be on the run for the rest of my life, you know, no matter what right, you know, so I'm like if I'm gonna be on the run. I still have to think about What I want out of every day and what I want

You know, and it's not necessarily determined by my responsibilities. Oh, yeah, there you go. That's the old Maybe I'm getting to it. Maybe I'm getting to the point. I was trying to make no There's this um one of the when you start studying like bhakti yoga and the symbol systems in bhakti yoga can get really confusing because um uh One of the main symbols in bhakti yoga is this being krishna that represents the source of all happiness love beauty Just a combination of all the great things of all the great deities a mixture of like Pan the good parts of jesus thrown in with like

You you name it. This is just this wildling mischief is like just pure Romantic being and one of the main symbols is this being Krishna goes out Into this clearing in the forest and plays his flute and all the The milk maids that live in the nearby villages that they leave their Children they leave their um They leave their I can't remember the exact word they leave their candles burning

They leave their lives and they go to follow this Being out into the um into the into the forest and and and so the the the this is the this is the sort of symbol for When you catch this weird transcendent Feeling or sound or whatever the thing it is then your life becomes um The or the life that you have solidified or your the ego structure you'd crystallized around or whatever the thing is suddenly becomes Unreal it becomes imaginary and the pursuit of this being or the union with this being becomes everything And so that's when you hear that and religion it goes counter to what we understand with like

Religion being this thing that makes you wear a suit and go to work at the insurance firm This is like the mystical approach. It's like no you just get You just get drawn I mean if you look at like not to be completely Narcissistic, but all the stories and religion is supposed to be a reflection of the human experience and if you look at the story of Muhammad and jesus and buddha siddhartha gautama. These are all wanderers that were just like i'm I'm wandering through christ vanished for third. I don't know how many years He just vanished into the nothingness and they say I think they say he had a wife and um

Muhammad went off into this cave. You know where he received this transmission and then buddha was just split from his his existence To go off into the force. So anyway, yeah, it's that idea of like shit, man Do I pretend to be happy in this calcified structure or do I? As the ultimate symbol of freedom continue this journey into the right unknown right the unknown And that can mean anything I mean, I guess I mean the unknown could be literally walking into the forest or the unknown can just be

A few blocks away from your house. Oh, yeah, sure It's this but it's this it's this like You know, I had this crazy dream um recently where I like turned into I realized that I was a werewolf and somebody was like we can fix you And I I thought no, I don't want I don't want to be fixed even though. I know it's gonna mean I'm gonna eat people and then I went and Was standing in front of this wide expanse of this primordial forest and I felt like the things wolves feel the sense of like

That feeling when that feeling goes away from life Then what are you you turn into like a Dried bit of gum at a theme park or something Yeah well Yes I'm sorry. I really like listening to you. It's like I feel like I I don't want to talk. Please. I like listening. I like I like well, you're just you're coming from your words are just so easily

Cascading out of you Um, which is amazing and then I I have a hard time like getting that same thing going because I'm I'm trying to explain things that I'm still in the midst of figuring out but I mean, I guess You know for me, I just I hit a point my I just I don't know It's like do I spend the rest of my life this way? Struggling with these things that I'm struggling with that I I openly am struggling with them And I'm and my struggle is actually starting to go over ground. It's starting to come out of my I'm starting to act out

As you would say I'm starting to like I'm see seeking connection now Like I I I've got to find some connection outside of what is going on in my life on a daily basis My marriage. Yeah, let's say my marriage so and you know and I mean You know for me, I'm not a person that has a lot of I'm extremely loyal I have a lot of like really close and long lasting friendships with people and

um An incredible loyalty to my wife and she was my first love and You know, and then that a couple of years ago everything started to kind of slide for me. Yeah mentally So the facade that I was keeping Which I was perfectly happy keeping. I love facades. You know, I think they're Amazing what you can do with just building them every day and they can be really incredibly positive things and things that inspire other I mean, it's like a facade is not in us. I've never really thought of it. I mean, no, it's a negative connotation to it but

I do Think that it's really important to be strong for the people in your life and to always look on another side And that was part of pot for me. Like I was saying that I would just really You know creating just keeping this structure, you know my life and the people around me secure and I don't mean just my children but You know anybody that I'm complete my you know, I have lived a kind of complicated life because it's not it's all You know, it's like what what you do surviving on your wits basically, right? So you're not you don't have this you're not part of a big structure

You're really you're just you're in your you are what you make your life with your mind with your art with whatever Yeah, and it's kind of like it's pretty precarious. It's a really precarious way to do it It's it's yeah, it's it's a constant state of feeling of insecurity and a constant sense of Or it can be it can easily go into that or um, yeah uh Yeah What is that awesome line in your song that are that great? There's one of you one of you I can't run the name of it, but one of the lines is uh

All my confidence is jump the fence and move the long. You know that line God damn, that's great, man Where you get to this place where you're like, yeah, the confidence just isn't there, you know and talk about facades Now you've got to put on this show Of confidence and um and but with marriages and relationships When you hit that place Where you just you feel like the man in the iron mask and you don't want to be wearing whatever this thing is That you construct it anymore. That is a real curious position to get into because you have to decide between

Uh being a martyr or and then who wants to he wants a martyr daddy or mommy There's nothing worse than a martyr mommy, you know when the when the when they I have friends whose parents have directly said to them I gave up My life for you It's like really well. Fuck you. You're a dumb ass. Am I supposed to respect you for that now? Am I supposed to look at you and think oh, what a great example you gave? You mean you gave up the most important thing that you add in this incarnation so that you could give Resentful fucking love to me for my whole life

Wonderful Wonderful, I feel great. So I'm essentially a parasite You're telling me the same thing you talk you'd say to a sentient leech or something that was on you like I'm giving my life's blood to keep I'm lucky. My parents never Ever said anything like that to me. And I think the people that do have Experience that with their parents. I think it really hurts them and it really it becomes something that really sticks with them Yeah, you know, so I feel very fortunate that my parents didn't do that to me, you know, yeah, and so

It's weak It's not good. It's not good. But but again, so it's like so I would and again, I'm speaking from a place of a I don't have kids so forgive me all of you do have kids and because I know that it's it's out in a way It's kind of out of line because I don't understand the depth of the experience So I'm only looking at from outsider's perspective, but I I would think like Um, you know from a romantic ideal The most important thing in raising a kid is honesty setting an example truthfulness and letting them

Have a real experience of the world and because kids It seems like kids and dogs can sniff out bullshit real quick anyway So if you're going around in a kind of false happiness in a marriage In front of your kid where the whole thing is a seething Seething hell and you're pretending it's okay. What is that doing for the kid? They're living an illusion. They're living in this puff of illusion. I don't know what the answer to it is I never I think I I never lived in a seething hell, but I felt it coming and that's why

I felt the seething coming and it was I just felt like this tidal wave of negativity that was going to overtake me and was overtaking me and making decisions for me And leading me like into Leading me into really precarious situations with other beauty, you know other beautiful people that I shouldn't be fucking with Right. Do you know what I mean? Like because I mean like But I was doing it out of a place of like sort of desperation and leading into other people's lives and in sort of in like intruding on their lives with your sort of that kind of

Energy when they're just looking for love like, you know, I mean, oh, I know what you mean. Oh, yeah I know you mean you mean like people kill you when people come to you and they want to they're there They want to be with you. They're loving but the energy that you're Applying to it isn't the same energy at all. It's like, yeah, it's warning. It's almost like you're wanting to like um, what's the word for uh, um My mom actually said this in one of the podcasts charge and discharge you just want to discharge you Oh, wow, you know, you want to discharge and they want to like Experience intimacy and love with you and you're just like I gotta get rid of this

I gotta get rid of this this energy that I'm carrying around Yeah, that's what was going on and I when I realized that that I was You know the You know when I had sort of looked outside my marriage at least, you know, like in a sexual way, I was like Whoa, you know, I'm this is I'm really messing with a lot of energy that I I kind of have no business doing to someone else and I don't You know, and I don't have that and since I go into every relationship that I go into with this totally

you know, I'm not a I'm not like I mean, I'm I'm not a like Opportunistic person. I'm not really a user. I'm not really like it's not where I want to be, you know I mean, I want to like I really like You know, I I'd love to nurture and I love like that's what I want my life And that's what I've always worked towards and that's what and this was like the opposite of that Oh, yeah, it was like this is so against my

You know, I mean I went into it wide-eyed. It's not like I I was like I need this in my life I need connection. I want this. Yeah, you know, and I want it and I'm gonna get it I'm just gonna do and I can do it. I can wow. Holy shit. I can actually do whatever I want really like wow Yeah, and uh, so I did that and then The implications of that just personally and for you know, the people that I it was just kind of really profound and and and sad and like and Well, because we're dealing with I mean the problem is the conditioning, you know

We're dealing with some serious fucked up conditioning as far as sex goes and everybody's head. So and I in like a utopian society where people have been raised in in the right way then you know If somebody came to you and needed to discharge as they say That's you would just love like that's so raw. Yeah, you'd be like, let me help you Let me help you. I see that you're suffering in this way Maybe I can help you and then after I help you and then if nothing comes of that then I you know, I was just a loving gesture that I gave to you no matter what

But the way things really work is that it's like because sometimes I thought you know, I think about like How awesome porn would be if instead of just showing the the 30 or 45 minutes of fucking You saw the Five hours proceeding in the five hours after kind of like magnolia or something you see them go off in their different ways and maybe Just see their lives when When there isn't that burst of fucking in it, you know, it's like fucking is

um Even if someone does like even if you find a girl and and you just want to have sex with her and and she just wants to Have sex with you there's still this feeling of like It's like shines this light on the plasticity of The physical or something and and that just is It's getting did I ever there's this my um There's this uh saying, uh

I heard once talking about materialism or materialists And they use they describe a dog they say that like uh imagine a dog In in a village like in india with no teeth And it just got gums and it finds an old dry bone And it goes to this old dry bone. It's starving and so it starts gumming this old dry bone with its toothless third world dog mouth And so it's like gums start getting cut open by the bone and it begins to drink its own blood But it begins to think that the blood is coming from the bone so it continues to chew on the bone ripping up its mouth

And that's that that's like used to compare like trying to get pleasure from the material universe or trying to get like That basic sense gratification from shit is that it's you're just basically ripping yourself up Yeah, it's a good one man, but but but you know, then there's the whole other side of it, which is that you know connection Is it can be a very positive thing and you know, this is like This is the this is where you get into like the if you ever read sex at dawn the book sex at dawn by chris rine you heard of this book It's just a book about how

Primates aren't just tend to not be monogamous at all They might they might have a life partner, but they they will cheat on the life partner And and and that's just the the way it is and if you look at indigenous tribes What you will find is that there's this idea monogamy is insanity. They have an idea their idea is that Or one of the ideas is the idea that they don't think one blast of jizz makes a baby They think that a baby comes from the combined Seaman of different tribesmen. Yeah, that's what that's how you get the stronger babies Yes, you get that sperm in there really like battling it out. That's it. That's it

And so evolutionarily the idea is that non monogamy is better than monogamy And that what since monogamy is a relatively new thing in the course of our species What inevitably ends up happening in the course of a marriage or a long-term relationship as you hit that place where you're like I just want to I think I want to fuck somebody else and then you start feeling guilty and crazy and then that's like, what's wrong with me What's wrong with me? I can't be everything for you You mean I can't be every single thing for you in the in the universe Like of course not. Yeah

Yeah Well, I don't well that made me think that I mean um The reason that I would look outside my marriage is not because I Wanted someone else or was looking I wanted I just wanted sex. I mean, right, right? Simple wanted sex. I wanted that connection and I would have gladly taken it From the known source Oh, right. You know what I'm saying? Yes. I would have glad had it not become so

Incredibly complicated. Yeah came like a sort of meaning it was something that like And I just had to say I mean to me like it it's so like sex is so important to me I mean, it's like me too. I mean I have to be it's I mean And I and I'm not saying like I'm and and I was in a 25 year relationship and I it was I would have happily

And did happily have sex with one person for a long time and not I did not have the sense of being Sick of the person or like something because I think sex is so Wonderful such a healing thing and and when and when it's a communication. I mean, it's a really incredibly Fulfilling thing. Yeah, I'm like intimacy is incredible, you know, and I don't think it's impossible to find someone that you can Access that kind of intimacy with and then And it could last a long long time, you know, so I'm thinking like that's but for me. I guess 25 years into my 47 years or 46 years into my life 25 years into a marriage. I'm I'm thinking well

If that's what I want in my life and it's as important as I know it is Yeah, you know, and I'm not going to deny it anymore, you know, and I'm not going to make myself feel guilty about it anymore I'd already experimented with that You know, so it basically all of my sort of wandering things I mean it just sort of boiled down to that. I just was like I have to just acknowledge straight up I want full-on intimacy with somebody I want and I want to try that again I want to try, you know, it's like I want to try it's like I want to I need that Stability

But see but this is where monogamy gets fucked up because in in the game that you end up playing in a long-term relationship like that instead of it being okay great It's like what? No, no, it's there's a no there. I don't know the specifics is what what's happening with you But I know if you go and look up is he Look up is he on google is he

Cheating will be the first thing that comes up if you look up is she Next word cheating so all these all these like people are so scared and freaked out of the idea of their partner going off To be with someone else that that's on google. That's the number one. It's not like is he happy That doesn't that's not the first one that comes up It's is he cheating and so that means that there's a Shitload of people who are frightened that their partners are cheating and the reason they're frightened that their partners are cheating is that they We have been programmed or we have been taught that if That for a person to go and have sex with someone else

Um is pretty much like the worst thing that can happen in our in our relationship And and I think the it's because if it's done if it's done as a lie You know secretly you're sneaking around I get to understand the betrayal But if there should be built in by now we are evolving as a species there should be built in something an acknowledgement of like there's a What is it 70% divorce rate? I think there's a 70% of 73

Today it ticked up today But you know what I mean? It should be built in like hey, I get it. You want to have sex I don't want to have sex right now. You want to have sex for whatever reason in my life I don't feel like having sex right now. I don't feel right But I love you and I want you to be happy so go and have sex. God that sounds so naive and stupid But I think if that was built in then marriages wouldn't fall apart like they do Yeah, well, maybe in the future that'll be the case, you know Yeah, see that being I could be that some see that like, you know

Working maybe a little better a little later once the institution is truly crumbled, you know You know what I mean? That's because the as these institutions crumble like marriage, which is Or they become understood in a different way Marriage becomes a different thing, you know, it doesn't become maybe it doesn't become so much About like this what you're what you're talking about like monogamy. It doesn't become so much about it becomes more about a partnership You know and two people dealing with each other and and dealing with all of the complexities right now It's like very it's still very simplistic the way that it's laid out like you said in the way that we're raised culturally It's very simplistic simple the reality of it is incredibly complicated. Yes

It's a partnership that you can enter into with somebody, you know, it's almost like a um You know and there's certainly like There's legal reasons for doing it, you know having children there's monetary reasons for doing it. There's um um Symbolic reasons for doing it. Yep And which will probably I mean that symbolic part will always appeal to people even if that's you know, they have five marriages at least that each one of those marriages meant something to them. Yep

meant let me turn my phone off um Well, I mean, you know, you guys should try you know I don't know where it is with with you and her now, but there's a lot of like, you know A lot of people have been I I never personally did this Or like I tried it Well, I tried it after relationship ended. I went and took ecstasy uh

To you know to see what happened, but we did it the wrong way, but there's a Huge underground of that I've heard of marriage therapists that using mdma to We're to try to uh return things to get back to that original state of Wow, this is incredible to like get underneath all the calcified bullshit layers that form And I think I could see that being quite successful because they're using it now Uh, they've reopened tests on it. I thought I mean, I've heard it ecstasy used in therapy And it seems like a good idea to me, especially if it was pharmaceutical And because it it is a really

I don't know. I I kind of those experiences with those drugs in my youth. I mean, I there were always Amazing Experiences, I mean not always with them, but there's always at least one time where it wasn't terrible, you know, I mean it's sort of Obviously for me Or not obviously but for me that kind of those kind of drugs like it hit a wall for me at some point where it wasn't giving me that You know, but I had a few pivotal like really beautiful Experiences with them. Yeah, I thought I did really make some real progress into understanding myself and understanding the people around me and and uh

I mean, maybe becoming a better person, you know, I've always thought those experiences were like, you know, I really I consider them like important things that happen to me like really important experiences and I I don't want my kids to ever do that Ever But you know, you don't you don't want your kids to do them the way you did them the way you did them I mean, I don't know the way you did in the way I did them was going down to this fucking trailer with like animal bones on the walls and buying shitty acid from a guy who had

Pornography scattered all over the floor of the place You know what I mean? Well, it's totally random. I had like I had I got some really good acid once And then really bad acid Yeah, really good ecstasy once then really bad ecstasy No, you don't want your kids to do like that But I you know, I had a I just had this guest on and he was talking about how when he was a kid teenager His uh his family like I guess they're super hippies, but they were like, okay, we're you know, you're about to become a man

So you should go and take mushrooms in Mexico with a shaman and they flew him out to Mexico to be with a shaman To ritualistically take mushrooms to become an adult That is a I would be totally fine with again. I don't have a kid But with my imaginary future kid, I'd be totally fine with that But as far as my kid going and like again In the same way that like the thing that I think maybe is the most upsetting about someone cheating on you Uh, if you can overcome your ego enough to understand that there's no fucking way You're gonna be

100% yeah the ultimate thing a person needs for their entire life Then probably the thing that hurts the most is that they lied to you if they went out behind your back There was dishonesty there and with your kid when the kid when you've created the situation where the kid is Off sneaking around getting high and you know getting fucked up and now you're instead of being the kid's parents You're like some kind of police state Entity well, then I think that's where the real fucking damage can come and Again in our future version of society where there's some clause and marriage contracts where you can go and Fuck someone else from time to time if you need to there should be like some

Ritualistic use of psychedelics with our kids. God. I sound like a fucking Colt leader, but I think that that's a um, that should be built in man And I think maybe with maybe you and your um, maybe you could still You could you could like, you know, I don't know. I've just heard that like if you take MDMA In a troubled relationship and take it in the right way and take it with A therapist or someone who can like walk you through. I feel like the thing is in my particular relationship We went through that we did take

And on top of that there was rampant infidelity like I'm not on my part initially, but like I mean We'd been through that a lot. I mean that was an acknowledged part of I mean where I had I had been through like Incredible betrayals, you know, like where I was just like where I where things had happened to me like my you know I get an entire circumstance to me moving to Los Angeles was I mean like I mean, there's I've I've had like these really intense Um Betrayals, you know, and where I was and I was never I was never one

I was not the betrayer most or at all pretty much That wasn't my because I wasn't really my thing because I'm kind of I'm a real fucking loyalist monogamous. I can't help it I mean, I'm just like that's kind of my thing um I so I had been through like some like fucked like totally crazy Could have lost my mind anyone else would have fucking ran away, you know I'm saying yes fucking stayed and I fucking held on and I held on I held on Of course, there was

Of course anger that came along with that holding on to that, you know that I had to acknowledge and that's what I've had to acknowledge Now it's like as this as I entered this there was a whole there was a whole new like phase of like Um Disenchantment and of disillusion and like drifting apart that had come again It was to me so to me it was like the third wave. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? It was like the third wave of this incredible like a test to this relationship and it just And when it hit and what would whatever and how the whole circumstance was unfolding and the complexities of it and all the little

Things that were happening happening between my wife and I personally What it was hitting me was this Years of like yeah me going me going I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna change this I'm gonna do that and that's like, you know part of like talking about pot and wondering whether it was positive or negative Because I used pot to like I could I could talk myself Out of anything that I was feeling you know saying like I could take anything that I was like Wow god, you know like oh So I mean I I could just go through and actually figure out a way

To like move beyond it to like, you know I mean and also to employ like empathy and understanding with the person that I was going through like yeah well this happened because of this and She has this going on and also this and why wouldn't she and I'm you know, and honestly am I really the No, you know, just so by the end I'm just like I'm I figured out a way Back in you know, yep, you know, I got it. No, that's fucked. I'm glad you got out of that Well, yes, I mean lots. I'm just trying to explain it's like that. I mean like yeah

Yeah, I could take ecstasy with my ex-wife I'm sure we could fucking have a good cuddle No, I I think that um, I think that um you at some point You definitely have to put that dog to sleep man At some point, you know, if the dog's suffering if the dog's sick and no matter how much, you know Pleasure or how much whatever happened events sometimes you do have to bring you have to take the dog to the vet I felt I was I took a kind of an assassin roll. I don't know you squeeze the trigger

I did sometimes you got to pull the trigger man, but sometimes but sometimes they're holding the gun You know, sometimes it's like when you it's like sometimes they're at their face. Yeah Yeah, they just can't do it. They're like just please please like in your hands like what are you doing with this? No, man, that's that is I've been there and I've I've been in in in in the situation where I realized like Oh, this person wants this relationship to end But they're not gonna end it for me. It was because they I I was thinking oh, they feel sorry for me Or they think that like it's they they worry that they're taking care of me and they're worried that They don't know what'll happen to me and I'll end up who knows man panhandling in Miami or something. So

Yeah, so then when you see that you've just got to be like, oh, let's fight Let's I'll press the self-destruct button symbolically, but this thing's self-destructing no matter what so I know that place man That's that's um, that's really tough. I'm sorry That's fine. I mean That's fine. I mean it's fine Oh, yeah It's good. It's like you know, I mean

Having kids through something like that and In making that kind of a decision with children involved as well Yeah, it's like best thing for him. I don't know. I mean, that's hard. It's best thing for him. I'm so glad my parents got divorced Oh god, I'm so glad if they had stayed together. What a mess too I would so so much rather my parents have a shot at authentic happiness then be miserable for 20 years out of some kind of stupid sentimentality. Fuck that. I'm so happy my parents got divorced. I'm so happy that that I didn't have a What people call a stable childhood. I had a stable childhood

It just wasn't stable in the sense that I was in a house where two miserable people Had decided to co-habitate until I went to college completely neurotic and insane because I've been absorbing All the shit vibes from their crap marriage into my life until I became some Just sniveling guilt-ridden being that's what you give to your kids if you don't fucking cut the you have to absorb your vibes Yes, if you can't exactly what they do they absorb them. I mean, it's it's a cliche about children They just soak it all up. But I think I I've I'm witnessing it and happy, you know, I'm witnessing these little personalities take shape and Yeah

Yeah, I that was another thing as I felt really Very strongly that I had to create an alternate reality for them I felt really really strongly about it. I mean to the point. I mean you mean alternate reality How do you mean? I mean I want them to have a place where they come and they're with me and they're experiencing my life with me And I'm experiencing them in a way that like makes sense to me Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I mean for me that would be just

For me that's like we're going to Griffith Park and we're going to walk into the woods We're going to like just stuff where I like I really you know, I would I had really struggled in my life to to um Give my children something that I Give my children experiences that I had myself my and and also But because I travel so much I'm so You know disconnected from them so many times like the times with them are so incredibly important to me and when I felt

very strongly that I was not Giving them the experience with me that that I wanted and also what and I mean That I actually it was it was a selfish decision I suppose I wanted to like you know, I was not able to do that and in the way that it was going and I really wasn't So frustrated like I was not able to give them that like you know, I You know, it's just a it became a real And that was another big part of my like the change in my life was like I like I have to create

I have to create this alternate and I say alternate reality, but I mean I don't mean like Not reality. I'm saying it just another place where they when they come to me They could be different. They're you know, they're going to be responding to me in this I'm like in a in a pure way with me and I'm going to be experiencing them and they're going to experience me in a way that's not dictated by You know My partner at the time and and what she was going through personally, you know, I mean which I

Is another that's another complex part of it. You know, it's like you also want someone else to experience life and You want I want I want to change people that I'm with and I want those people to change and I want to change and like If I come to a point where I feel like I can't make I can't change you. I can't save you. I can't this I can't that I mean, it's that's also a total cliche, but You know and at the same time believing in somebody and knowing they could do that, but then Maybe I'm the problem here. You know, maybe I'm you know, it's like Well, just because you've shifted geographically from the person doesn't mean that that thing that you want to have happen

Is it going to still happen? It just might not happen in the way that you You know and pictured it happening, right? I that's kind of the other way that I looked at it I was like, well, if I I'm going into this huge change. I'm pushing all of these people kicking and screaming, you know over a cliff right now Children my you know my ex-wife Everything I'm like, I'm saying I'm putting it all at risk, you know, but I'm doing it at the same time. I'm I'm I am also convinced that that's somehow the shape that that's all gonna take later and it could be it'll be years before we know what it is That it's gonna be

Better. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. I agree with that and and and it's the old cake Sometimes you got to kick down the ants nest and you know, they're gonna build the ants are gonna I saw this in some documentary about an artist and he was talking about reinventing yourself as an artist And he's saying sometimes you got to kick the ants nest over and just trust that they're gonna build That thing's gonna form again into some More perfect Pattern than before and the reason it's gonna form a no more perfect pattern than before because the intention When you kicked the thing down was it was a loving kick. It wasn't you're like fuck this. I want to destroy and hurt

it's like I We the the you know, it's the old thing where somebody Tries to put their arm in the cast in the wrong way and they got to re break it so that it'll grow back the right way That break hurts. That's one of the worst things ever when I hear about that Someone has to go to the doctor and he's got to like professionally break their arm God that's a terrible trip to the doctor, man But but you got to do that or you're gonna have this old bent warped Shit arm for the rest of your life and and so that's why it's good and

Another thing man when I one thing I loved Was going to visit my dad After that because when the divorce happened My mom was suddenly happy My dad was suddenly happy instead of these two being together And me actually pretty much blocking the whole goddamn thing out because that's what kids end up doing when they're around that shitty You think they're just absorbing it. You know what they're really doing. They're trying to forget it They're trying to forget. They're trying to forget. They're not even getting a goddamn childhood

They're just getting this numbed out thing where they're trying to ignore everything They're being taught to ignore and look away and so it's usually numb it out I started remembering my childhood again once my parents got divorced because suddenly I'm with my dad He's happy. There's a pool beer porn It's this whole like it's this whole like other side of things that was this relief. How old were you in that? I was um 27 I

Was I was like 10 You know 10 10 to I think 10 10 and up and and I remember going to see him Was always a blast and like my mom gave me this kind of formal Sort of structured thing and my dad gave me this wild hunter s. Thompson thing with big bags of fireworks and burning down fields and guns and you know what I mean It was like these two polarities and it was and I feel like it helped me become who I am and I like who I am So I'm glad that it happened. You're dynamic. Yeah, it gives you guys gives you a dynamic man And that's why I that's how when people say oh

I I I didn't have a stable childhood because my parents were just fuck off You had a stable childhood You know people who don't have stable childhoods people in Haiti after a massive earthquake or people were the tsunami wiped away things or people in Africa who like Have to get raped every night that they go to the well or whatever. That's not stable Yep, it's just the stability you're getting is not the traditional stability and the traditional stability By the way, look it did a lot of good. I mean look at like how neurotic and freaked out these Most honkeys are who came up in that situation people problems. That's what

um, do you Do you find that this is um, we uh Got a little do you have a little bit of time? Yeah, um, do you find that uh that you're This is Change your creativity or your creative output or has had an impact on songwriting or creating music Uh, well, I was it a huge I was kind of about had a huge I was working. I had a bunch of songs that I was working on tons of like melodies

Which are really easy for me to come up with you know, just like Sitting down and playing something and coming up with something that I would sing But then it's all comes down to what I'm going to sing and I'm always Probably too precious about what I sing or what I write And hopefully I'm hoping Whatever period that I'm going to go off on I can start to really Get down to start to deconstruct the way I put together Songs again in the way I put together words, but I was at a huge impasse because I had a lot to say

Very intense shit to say about What was happening to me and what was going on starting, you know two years ago. Yeah And I knew That I couldn't say it, you know So when I made this change in my life, I was just like Bam, you know, here we go. Here's lyrics to like 14 songs. There they are Wow, it's there. I mean, I'm I'm opening up. It's like I'm opening up. I'm going back to this really basic I mean because the you know as a songwriter or whatever the songs that people like that I've written or what I the songs I like

I'm just laying it out. It's not real like super poetic. I mean I mean, I'm not I I didn't It's pretty I'm speaking a very plain way in my songs. So yeah, can I say as a as a as a Forget not to be a total dork as a hardcore Lou Barlow fan, which is I've listened to your music pretty much since I was in

Just forever. It's a hugely important to me. Uh, it's It has this quality of honesty to it that's unlike anything that I know that there I can only think of maybe a couple other things that have that level of honesty and you still and even That seems to just be what you are. Just like a completely honest person So so to think that you are in a situation where that couldn't come out where you couldn't Exercise what to me seems to be the nucleus of What your music is I could that sounds disastrous. It was Yeah, it was hard, you know, so when I let that when I

When I Took the risk when I changed my life, you know, and when I actually when I fell in love fell in love with someone else So And and how's that going? It's going really well. It's beautiful I'm in love right now too. It's the greatest fucking thing ever You know, I mean I just I I'm so happy that I didn't

Wait to experience that or I think that I would I really thought I would never really experience anything quite like that again So, I know every time you think you'll never experience it again That's one of the satanic tricks is like that comes that that's one of the whispers of the devil Right if that's like lucifer right near you will never feel love again. You'll never feel well I it's not that exactly. I think it's but I think it's on a I think it's because it's actually the real I mean, this would be I mean, this is my second relationship really so in my life and I'm 46 years old so I don't know. I mean, there's a there's a there's just a level of communication that that I did not know about but I

not know no, there's a level of Uh Just like the thing like just brain the way brain two brains work just seem to work a little There's just there's a way that the brains work together. That's really You know a huge Relief for me You know, it's like I got it's hard to that Just working together with this other brain and then other

person with You know the way that she talks to people the way she talks to me the way she holds me the way that I mean It's like and it's so in between us. It's a very Instinctual thing and something that we share That we just happen, you know, we we happen to share a lot of the similar just what we want Are the kind of things that we need from each other in terms of just intimacy and honesty and And it's it's been, you know, that's been Breathtaking and and it's worth it. And it's just like it's worth it just

To experience what we've what I've been through in the eight months was absolutely worth It's a terrible. I mean terrible terribly worth it. Yeah It's worth considering all the the incredible just the massive amount of um Just crazy stuff that happens once you really just You know once you like just pull out that support and watch the thing watch everything start crumbling. Yeah, it starts happening It's really incredible

That that thing you're talking about see that's a metaphysical principle that I've noticed and my I was thinking about this my neighbor um came over and I had gone out of town and The person was supposed to water my plants didn't come and water my plants and so one of them had withered and um There was like maybe four or five living sprigs coming off the plant and then the rest was just dead And she explained to me she's like well, you see you got to break the dead sprigs off the plant because the energy is going into The dead sprigs as much as it's going into the live sprigs. And so

the moment you we got the dead sprigs off this plant It just came right back, you know It came right back and and and and that that implosion thing you're talking about in a relationship It's like if you think this shitty relationship I've just noticed that whenever I've gotten out of a relationship. There was a dead sprig and cut that thing off It's not just like suddenly that part of my life got better It's like every part of my life started glowing again because all that energy that was going into the

The death or into the emptiness or into the withered arms suddenly flows back out into the all the other parts of your life. Yeah That's true. Yeah I'm glad to hear the lube barlow is in love I am too. I love it man. It's the greatest thing ever and it's I mean not just sound like a drooling Uh hemp vendor burning man, but that is the most it's the most important thing there is and it's the to me I think it's the only it may be it's the only thing there is and everything else is just nothing. It's just I know Bloody dog gums

Yeah Yeah, I can Hey, where so you got look where this is it's uh been about an hour where where um Where you boy, what's your website? Okay A lubicorps.com which I don't maintain anymore, but it's like you can order things off of it that'll never send you Have at least like 40 people that are probably fairly angry with me now Oh, man, you gotta get you gotta get you I got the man for you if you need somebody to help you with that

I got the man for you. Um Uh And you've got a new sebedo album coming out. Yeah, it's called defend yourself I can't wait. When is that coming out? Uh september and but there's an ep that came out Like last week and two like we we recorded 20 songs just down the street here actually down Down uh less fearless boulevard at the very end. I had a studio there and we were and we recorded it there and Yeah, we did like 20 songs and five of them aren't an ep that we just did and then there's 15 more Can't wait. Can't wait. And and what about centredo any any or any of that stuff

On the horizon, maybe, you know, I mean, I think I well, I lost my studio due to all Crazy stuff that was happening um Lost my studio. So I'm gonna be recording really quiet in the little apartment hell. No, you're not you're gonna be recording at Casa de la trussell anytime you want to come and record if you ever need a place to record stuff, man I've got the organ and this uh This got your zoom record

I got crap equipment But if you ever want to come and record on wonky crap equipment, you're welcome to come here Be loud, I suppose louder here. Yes, you could be loud. You could I think you'd be pretty loud These bastards had seven barking dogs for five months. I'm allowed to be as loud as I want Thank you so much for coming on the podcast You're welcome. All right. Um, uh, hodakisha You could go find out more about lou barlow by going to lubicorps.com Uh, and if you like the dunk and trezzel family hour, why not go to itunes and give us a good rating? Okay. I'm gonna play a song from

um sebedo's upcoming new album called secret e p and you can get that um, you can pre-order that at joyful note noise recordings, which is located At joyful noise recordings dot com so you can pre-order the e p now And here's a track from it, which I found on spin magazine. I'll put a link to that article at dunk and trezzel dot com But here's a link to a track from that album called keep the boy alive

And if you go to spin dot com you can probably hear Uh, so something where the sound quality is a little better because I recorded it using wiretap studio So I'll have a link to the entire e p which is at spin dot com. All right. See you guys later. Bye But he and I can't make her be true And he will follow where you go He'll disappear in you But he and I can't make her be true Control my age and call the trauma depths across the bay

Understand that my game would fall without you And grind my days apart away the bodies through the night Or do it for the health Oh When I'm feeling sorry, let it go because that won't change a thing When I say no, the hunger starts to scream Control my age and call the trauma depths across the bay Understand that my game would fall without you

And grind my days apart away the bodies through the night Or do it for the health She's from poor and high I Oh Through all the calls and fall the walls and reach your mold again I'm the one who jumped the gun to be about to say It's taking hope. I'm growing old. They ought to be a mind

Do it for the health Do it for the life You