Duncan Trussell Family Hour - PENDLETON WARD & JESSE MOYNIHAN

Episode Date: March 9, 2013

Pendleton Ward (creator of Adventure time) and Jesse Moynihan (adventure time writer, creator of forming) join the DTFH and talk about many beautiful and wonderous things.

Hello friends, it's me Duncan Trussell and you are listening to the Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast. I'm broadcasting from my mom's house in the mountains of North Carolina where I've come because my mom is in the last stages of cancer and is dying and I've come up here with my brother to take care of her and say goodbye and go through all the various technical things that you have to go through when one of your parents is about to exit this particular part of the multiverse. In the days leading up to this my mind created a much more horrible scenario than what is actually happening. In my mind there

would be a kind of gothic Paul hanging over everything. There'd be black curtains draped over the windows and brass bird cages filled with emaciated half-dead birds chirping their last chirps as my mom went in and out of states of gnashing demonic possession. In my mind I predicted that my world would collapse. That there would be a Dostoevsky style plunge into the dark waters of existential anguish. That from bearing witness to the horrific brutality of life and seeing the cold cruelty of nature and disease and the way it rinsed to shreds mothers and fathers and dogs and leave smoldering

psychic craters in the lives of all who were left behind. That this would turn me into a cold Calus being. That the darkness would have eventually caused me to shave my head throw away my copies of the Bhagavad Gita and just do meaningless push-ups in the day and get drunk on cheap beer at night until finally someone kicked my head and in the back of a dive bar leaving me a drooling vegetable tied to a chair and a home for impoverished broken invalids where I'd spend my last days weeping and muttering mother mother but the reality of the situation is that I'm in this beautiful house in

North Carolina staring out at a river and mountains and everything feels okay and not okay because I'm in denial about what's happening here but okay because to the best of my ability I've accepted the truth of the situation and I found lately that whenever I do that an unexpected and almost alien peacefulness descends on to everything and I'm reminded of this weird truth that there is no bad part of this dimension that if you peel back the surface layer of this interdimensional fractal that we happen to be entangled in all there is is a novelty producing love field now I know that out there at this moment there

are children being slowly dissolved in acid by maniacal hooded murderers I know they're tanks blasting orphanages and transforming innocent Syrian babies in a blood vapor I know that cows and chickens are being slaughtered in hellish factories and that Asian wage slaves are building computers using materials extracted from decimated tropical forests and shaman hair I know that Nancy Grace is somewhere going through a folio of strangled toddler pictures while a team of makeup artists smear stem cell infused mascara into her trembling lizard face I know that many of you listening to this are going through

an entire spectrum of turbulence from poverty to cancer to shitty jobs or unruly children or just the mundane boring vapors of ordinary life where you find yourself surrounded by brainwashed drones whose only purpose seems to be squirting fat milk fed babies into the public school system it's true it's there I get it but my experience with the thing having encountered in 2013 two events that if I saw it on paper in 2012 I would definitely not be looking forward to this year one having one of my balls chopped off because of testicular cancer and two having to say goodbye to my mom because of breast cancer my experience

and in this particular part of the multiverse is that these things that seem so horrifying on paper in reality are just like everything else more poignant deeper but within them they have that it's the it's a fractal quality inside one thing is everything and inside everything is one thing and that one thing from my own experience has been has roots that go into something that we call love I know that sounds fufu I know that sounds like something somebody who just smeared hummus all over their genitals and was giving a healing massage to a lice-covered dreadlocked hippy girl and a mud pit at Burning Man

might whisper in the midst of an ecstasy haze but it's true and it's coming from somebody who's just sitting in a downstairs room in their dying mother's house and it seems to be what's going on at least from my own perspective I there would in a way there would be something awesome about the other option they're in a kind of dark horrific existential gnashing of teeth and grinding my own skin as I shake my fist at the empty sky moaning about having incarnated in this dimension that seems fun too there seems something fun about running in a loin cloth down by the river and taking a rock and hammering my remaining testicle

into paste while I spit into the into the river and curse God it may be that I'm just too dumb or too lazy to experience that kind of anguish it would be difficult for me to take it seriously and I maybe I've done my share of writhing around in the mud during this incarnation and I'm just bored with it this other side of things is much more fun much more interesting and I think the effect that it creates in the people around me is far more preferable than limping around the house with a gelified scrotum and ripped clothes covered in mud weeping snot tears onto everybody nobody needs that nobody's got time for that it

doesn't help anything and it's fun to go into an Elliott Smith phase but I think you should do that personally I think I'll do that in private I don't see the point in publicly turning into the crow but if that's the way you are I think it's okay I think it's fun and I get it as long as you are honest enough to recognize that in the depth of your despair you're actually getting off on it and that there's a kind of masturbatory joy that comes from sinking into the low low valleys of life and moaning into the sky there's something delightful about screaming and crying and suffering that that's the paradox of it

all hidden underneath all those tears and hidden underneath all those seizures of horror and hidden underneath all that darkness and sadness and depression at the very core of it all is some inescapable love that's very polite and does not invade your life unless you want it there again this is all my own subjective experience which is all I've got I'm trying to honestly report the thing and let me reiterate that it's not all roses over here that there is a certain complicated level of drama that I imagine is the inevitability when anybody's dying and families have gathered Jesus Christ there's drama when

families gather to eat shit turkey but underneath it all there's I'm gonna say it one more time forgive me cynics out there underneath it all I think there's just love the exact same feeling that you get when you when you're around a baby that's just been born if you've anyone's been lucky enough to feel that crazy nuclear explosion of love that happens the moment a sweet little taut comes blasted out of a pussy then strangely enough that exact same energy seems to happen when somebody goes slipping into the infinite also my mom is amazingly cool super spiritual enlightened person so I'm lucky about

that I don't have someone who's I've heard of you know some pretty horror stories about the way some people decide to take the big dive so that's my report in from this particular no to the multiverse this is a great podcast that recorded before I left for North Carolina and we'll get going with that as soon as we do some business the Duncan Trussell family our podcast is brought to you by sure design t-shirts sure design t-shirts is an elite t-shirt company that exists in Thailand as many of you know there's a part of the United States known as the Bohemian Grove this is a fantastic place where some of the

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have been donating to the Dunkin Trussell family our please when you donate leave a note so that I know where to email you to thank you I appreciate the anonymous donations they make me feel weird though so please make sure you leave something for that where I can contact you thanks for all of you have been buying shirts all of you have been posting on the message board and thanks to all of you who continue to listen and support this podcast you guys are making my life ridiculously beautiful in the face of what daunting phenomena so God bless you all now let's get on with this podcast we have two two guests on

this podcast we have Jesse Moynihan who is a brilliant artist he is a writer on the show adventure time he also has his own webcomic which I've been getting in too lately which is this incredibly brilliant expansive comic called forming and you can check that out at Jesse Moynihan.com that's J E S S E M O Y N I H A N .com our other guest is the creator of an amazing cartoon called adventure time this is an it's a psychedelic hilarious show that's ostensibly for kids but like all brilliant creations it is just as entertaining for adults or at least the kind of adult that I happen to be you

can check out Pendleton's work at buenothebear.com or you can just watch adventure time on Cartoon Network which I highly recommend and also I recently recorded a voice for adventure time I was a wizard I hope I'm allowed to say that that's all I'll say but I'm very excited about that episode coming out so everyone please welcome to the Dunkin Trussell family hour two brilliant beautiful vibrant human beings and artists Jesse Moynihan and Pendleton Ward so um holy shit this is gonna blow everybody's I'm sure I hope this is blowing my mind that you guys are sitting in sitting here Pendleton and

Jesse Jesse forming is so awesome that thanks man and it's how long did it take you to do that um four years four years four years I think I'm still working on it four years and Pendleton creator of a little little cartoon called adventure time it's one of the top top cartoons on top cartoons create for Cartoon Network right yeah thanks man yeah it is it's top and it's a mind melter you guys are both mind melters thanks thank you yeah yeah it's this specific style of where you know both things which is what I really love when I'm like looking at art is it feels like it somebody has channeled a feeling or some alternate

dimension has sort of come through them into the world and informing your sort it's it's like Philip K. Dick when you read Philip K. Dick it's not just the fantasy world that you're absorbing it's you're actually absorbing some of Philip K. Dick's unique perception of the universe itself like his being has sort of gotten mashed into the thing and have you read a lot of Phil Philip K. Dick yeah I've been getting into it lately I tried reading you Bic I think I haven't read it I have I read like 10 pages people keep telling me I have to read Philip K. Dick by having I just haven't done it yet you got it you got to whip

yourself through it's like getting on a schizophrenia treadmill it's also like his point of view I think it's like sort of of its time like you know I mean like you're backtracking to like this hipster dude from a while ago you know I mean yeah so the cadence is like foreign and really specific well I don't think did you read Philip K. Dick that's not the guy who illustrates the girls with little penises isn't no that's okay that that's that's my dad that's what's his name the outsider artist that is that you're talking about the guy that they found oh yeah Darger Darger Dar Henry Darger yeah who is a guy that for those

of you guys who don't know he was an outsider artist and they found in his apartment this and like enormous book or several books filled with these strange like thousands and thousands of pages I think yeah but it is a good connection because Philip K. Dick I would consider him an outsider artist because I don't think that cadence that you're thinking is like hipster cadence even though that is in there kind of like old pulp fiction cadence yeah like beatnik like post beatnik something it's schizophrenia it's his mind it's like it's it's this like warping of it's his perceptual mechanism for better or for worse was

warped and it's coming out in these books which is why when you read Philip K. Dick if you get if you force yourself through that that strange thing that you're talking about if you get into Philip K. Dick book it gives you the exact same feeling when you're done reading as when you get off one of those fast moving the electronic like pathways in an airport you know what I'm talking about yeah where you finish reading and now you're a little crazy because you've let him into your brain a little too much right that's what's cool about him but there's also a sense of humor I think I'm talking about is

like you can feel his sense of humor that feels like of a certain time yeah yeah because our sense of humor has now like added on top of that you know I mean yes so it's like sort of like feels like backtracking or something that's how I feel when I've tried to read his books there aren't they do you got it you have to attack them you know you have to just to dedicate yourself to getting through the things but you guys seem like I mean Jesus Christ you guys seem like a bit you got a bit of the outside of art in you and you've managed to somehow get that into like the mainstream Pendleton we've talked

about this a little bit before where I feel like I'm more a commercial artist than anything else that you could call me because I like reaching the broadest audience I think that I because I set out I'm like what's the best thing that I can do and to me in my mind that that broad audience is like this big as you can get and so that's my goal that's my bar that I set for myself to try and but then you like have hired people who don't have those aspirations within the within the world you I mean we've tried to like nail this down before I don't know if we ever came to a conclusion but me and Tom to my friend Tom her pick

who also works on the show he he and I like talk about this a lot you talk about what what specifically about how Tom and I are sort of like these niche dudes like everything we write is like so in our own personal work is like harder to act like doesn't have a wide appeal like has really limited appeal but for some reason Penn hired us to work on his show and then so within that sandbox within Penn you know Adventure Time sandbox which has a massive wide appeal for some reason has some pop sensibility to it that Penn likes well y'all will say you're niche but in my mind it's like y'all are y'all do really

honest work and really beautiful work and I feel like that is the most compelling kind of thing to get wrapped up in yeah but if you look at my personal work it's like titties and dicks like hermafrida it's like flying through space and you know I mean like if I'm if no one's telling me not to do something then I'm doing like stuff then a lot of people don't want to look at I think you know I guess that you know I say that stuff about being a commercial artist and reaching a broad audience but I don't I don't actively put it together like I just I just do what feels right I guess no one ever I don't think I don't think

anybody ever when they were considering when you're thinking like oh man I got to reach a broad audience what am I gonna do what am I gonna do I want to reach a broad audience what am I gonna do I got an idea I'm gonna create a post-apocalyptic cartoon world with a shape-shifting talking dog no what no you know what I mean no one ever that's not like when you're considering like how do I reach a broader audience you're thinking like I know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna find a 14-year-old and give him a lesbian haircut and teach him to sing that's how you reach a problem who's that Justin Bieber you know you

find a handsome symmetrical kid who can sing and dance that's how you reach a broad audience you don't create this like insane psychedelic mushroom world so it's interesting to hear you say that you you consider what you do commercial it seems commercial after the fact that's yeah but something in it is synchronous with the world like kids you know little desires you know I think it's an honest coming from an honest place but but like his DNA pens DNA is more in in sync with whatever that is going on with the kids you know whereas I feel like I'm always like you know combating kids like I'm fighting kids I get I get this

working with them yeah about how it appeals to kids and adults alike and you can't not end up sounding super skeezy when you start talking about how your brain is like a kid's brain yeah but I do I see jokes and I'm like oh man that would that would really rock my world if I was 12 like I know there's a said this so many times in interviews but there was a there was a Simpsons episode that I remember when I was a kid where Bart just goes my he just says my dad's a half monkey half man creature and I was a kid I was like just seeing a man and a monkey put together was all I needed as an adult I'd be like that's

kind of weak that concept and it wouldn't rock my world as much but I see stuff in Adventure Time that I think would appeal to to kids like that and adults I don't know I'm saying no it makes no fuck it makes total sense man I don't know who knows I mean really I think that what I what you're saying to me applies to comedy which is and pretty much anything is that honesty if you can just come from an honest place and you just let that thing be what emerges then it no matter what you win even if it's not accepted even if people don't like it you've still done you still followed your own path yeah I think honesty is

the key to humor I mean I mean that's not like an original no I think it is I think a lot of people don't realize that yeah but I think like you know when when thinking about like people who like how do you think of that you know people ask whatever creative people like how did you or someone that's created something original and they're always like how did you think of that like how did you come up with that one thing you know and it's always like I never understand that question they're like what drugs are you doing or like yeah you know like I wasn't doing a fucking I was just being honest with

myself and like being interested in the world and then some some things got shot out you know yeah yeah oh totally yeah I mean some people need drugs to hit that level of honesty or have the courage to get that out because it's I guess it's a courage thing but I don't think it's creating I mean I don't think anyone's really creating a new idea based on that's not totally true but based on drugs yeah I mean I know crumb people say Robert Crumb or Crumb said that all his characters were created during the time when he took LSD I think but I think that most of the time drugs just allow you to open up your courage or

whatever like what if you're afraid of of being honest or something or being self-exploratory then you can use you know drugs in that way to to open that up but I think it's there already drugs didn't put that in your brain you know I mean oh yeah all that stuff is exists within your conscious within your subconscious or whatever you know you can tap that by just fucking dangerous dreaming or you could do drugs well or both you know or both you know you know that it's I think a lot of people trick themselves into thinking that they're doing drugs for some kind of artistic purpose when they're just like one

indeed hi I think it's a real if you're gonna use that tool to create which it is a very popular tool to create because you know if it's not you know speed for a lot of writers it's marijuana if it's not marijuana it's alcohol is speed isn't speed just like motivational speed yeah I've never done speed this is I mean this is something I've like speed is I speed is the drug of choice for Philip K. Dick Stephen King I think wrote like the shining on speed you know it's a definitely a tool that a lot of writers use you know it's it's the humans used you know it's something that people don't want to admit and don't like

because what the things that a lot of people like it like Lance Armstrong for example people love the idea of someone being that athletic minus any kind of substance because it represents that something that's accessible for any human being and that creates this feeling of like I can do that and then you realize no no no that guy was on massive amounts of testosterone and high-tech sport you know enhancing drugs and so are all the other people on those bikes because they're they just didn't get busted and then you realize baseball players guess what they're juicing too and then you realize like if you've ever

seen some ripped weight lifter guy do you think that guy got that weight from just normally lifting weight isn't it like impossible it's impossible human anymore the things some shape-shifting Lincoln Throp he's been like rubbing both testicles sweat into his nipples for years and it's caused that to happen and so the people don't like the idea that there's additives that get that you think people only want the chemicals to come from inside your brain they don't want them to come from outside your brain the moment that you've decided with your own will okay I'm gonna eat mushroom because I want to access some

higher intelligence that I could figure out what to do in life then you sound like a fucking lunatic but if the dream comes to you yeah where your brain releases God knows what kind of weird chemical slurry that makes you experience some intelligent being that's like listen you've got to stop drinking well then you tell someone that I call it a vision so you know it's it's people it's just that's the time period that we're in well that's I think I know it's frustrating to me to on the comments that I get on the internet that are how many drugs were you on when you came up with this how'd you do this how many

drugs did it take for you to actually accomplish this and I don't I don't do drugs I drink drink but I don't smoke weed I don't know and it's it's frustrating that it's the drugs that everyone thinks is what you need to come up with with funky weird ideas but I don't have perspective you know I don't have the drug perspective yeah when I from all sides when I was growing up I was like a straight-edge hardcore kid you know and I would get some and I was like a creative kid like drawing comics and shit and people ask me to draw ninja turtles and shit and and I would draw my own comics and when people would

see them people who aren't creative they'd be like what kind of drugs do you do you know and so that made me more not want to ever do drugs because I was like I don't want kids putting the responsibility of my creative output on something outside of myself yeah you know that was like a real frustrating thing for me growing up I think a lot of kid maybe creative people feel I don't know I at least for me because it was like an internal discipline I was like I'm disciplining myself to be a certain type of person and and then if you're like hey you I'm just gonna write off like everything you do because of like

like a joke you know I mean like it's like it's a it's a punchline to be like drugs what yeah what drugs are you all right right like that undermines the creative process yeah and when I was a kid like insecure like 18 year old kid like trying to like figure out my self-worth and stuff like that like really you know bugs me well I used to bug me now that doesn't bug me as much doesn't bug me a while to get over that too and to get over how much that bug me does it bug you that probably a large part of your adult audience that watches your show is on drugs no not at all yeah it's just the idea that like you need a

crutch or a you could like the idea of taking drugs seems like a crutch or some kind of like yeah and now actually my bitterness towards drugs because of all those comments is now my crutch really I think all right is now like I have held on to this weird feeling about like yeah I don't I don't need that I don't like I hate that and and that's something I've had I think I think it's just a bad way to look at drugs I mean like yeah I mean like I don't like I've definitely done I've done drugs like you know I mean like and I've never done I don't think I've ever done drugs to create something like I've never had that's not true well the

term drugs man we've got a lot that term but we sound like a goddamn Reagan administration public awareness thing here drugs is a yeah problem is we've been brainwashed in this country since we're very young to think that drugs when you hear that term drugs equals evil it doesn't matter that our species for the last 2,000 years has been ritualistically and recreationally taking intoxicants on a daily basis it doesn't matter that the majority of human beings wake up in the morning and they get on drugs they take coffee they take the caffeine they take their cigarettes or they whatever the whatever the thing

is that doesn't that doesn't no one considers that that's drugs we're all on drugs I think you know I did I have used some imagery that I got from from the I was the one ayahuasca trip I took like well six years six years ago six years ago but I wasn't looking for creative you know I mean when I took it I wasn't trying to like I need ideas you know I mean that was just like a by product of a of like a crazy experience you know I mean that was like I was trying to fix my girl problems really yeah yeah yeah what were your girl problems I had here comes the meat put this in the comments

five minutes in six five minutes we're actually somehow and I don't even understand how it's 17 minutes in oh shit well what happened was I was in this long-term relationship I was in love with this girl this girl named Margaret and and I really we had a really deep connection but like it got all fucked up because I'm a fucked up artist like I'm a I have a fucked up personality when it comes to relationships I'm really bad at them and but I was really in love with this girl and she broke up with me because I was like negligent as a boyfriend basically and she put up with it for five years

five years of me being like I can't I can't see you right now I gotta draw you know like that kind of stuff I don't want to go on vacation with you I gotta work on my comic book like yeah that kind of stuff like really bummer shit and so after she broke up with me like rocked my world and I was so fucked up and I couldn't date other girls I met this other amazing girl and I couldn't like I couldn't deal with her anymore like I mean I'm not anymore I couldn't deal with her as a because she wasn't I was just rocked by this breakup and and I had this amazing new girlfriend and I couldn't give her a chance and all this

shit so and I had been reading about ayahuasca for a while like you know I had been doing like shamanic dream journeys with my brother and stuff and and all of us were sort of you know you know reading like breaking open the head and shit and and that kind of watching altered states and stuff yeah so I was like I'm gonna you know I heard all this great stuff about ayahuasca you know the therapeutic effects it can have on people with addictive personalities and and what it can do to sort of break down you calcified stuff ideas you have about yourself you know yep and so I was like that I was like I feel calcified

as shit and so I I went to this thing and I took it and I had visions about Margaret and about this new girl I was dating Mary and stuff and it was a really vague though like I couldn't I still don't quite understand what the what I saw meant like I saw I would see their faces in the air and a and a rottweiler barking at me and shit like you know and so you would see their the rottweiler was there with their faces floating the rottweiler was in between them barking at me the rottweiler was in between the faces of your ex-lover yeah because I was praying to mother ayahuasca you know I was like

please help me figure this out look what am I doing wrong in life when it comes to girls when it comes to women and relationships and and my ego and stuff you know what do you think the rottweiler represents I to this day I don't I don't know I don't know what I mean what I know I know what the overall experience was telling me and I still have anxieties about it because I haven't addressed I haven't fixed what are rottweilers they're dog they're dogs what kind of dogs fighting dogs I guess no what do people usually use rottweilers for it's not fighting it's guard dog oh yeah guard dogs yeah so you got a

fucking guard dog it's isn't that just like that the idea is you've got this growling deadly vicious unaddressed part of you that's keeping girls at bay yeah yeah that's what's going on you got this fucking got a goddamn or oh shit it's your spirit animals a rottweiler well I try I tried to find my spirit animal a couple on the numerous occasions but I haven't found it yet did you have control of the rottweiler in your vision no no you didn't you don't have you have an untamed rottweiler it was just barking at me like like really vicious it was barking at you and not the girls yeah no it was barking at me

oh the rottweiler was facing you yeah were you scared of it yeah man I was like fuck this changes everything if the rottweilers facing you and not the girl then that changes everything yeah the rottweiler represents some thing you've got to conquer in yourself that's that's threatening you or that yeah there was a black hole in the vision to that I I knew I had to jump in this black hole that was appearing in the side of the room you know I was like there it is that's the hole I have to jump in and I was like I'm not doing that I didn't do it and now it like I think if I had jumped in that hole you know and and

faced my fear instead of hiding under a blanket for nine hours I would have like come out with some better understanding of myself but instead I have this unresolved psychedelic experience you know well oh you know what man I don't know if it's isn't it like isn't that what's the big takeaway from the whole thing that my ego is too big and and I have to like dissolve into the universe at some point and and get you know all the stuff I'm struggling for is retarded and I should stop doing it isn't everyone's ego just as big as yours don't we all yeah I mean yeah but I struggle with it I know but I struggle with it

all the time I think it was it's what makes me like freak out at night you know when I look at the stars I start having a panic attack that's what's going on with me I went to the Griffith Observatory and did the space thing you know they tell you the size of the universe have you gone to that no I haven't like the tour of the universe or whatever you know it's supposed to be like really fun and amazing and the whole time I was just like borderline having a episode we've talked about this a little bit before I think because I when I was in high school I like saying this because it belittles makes a lot of

people who are freaking out right now about the universe when I was in high school I freaked out about the universe I was younger then and it was yeah it would make me freak out I would panic I would have panic attacks thinking about infinity thinking about how small I am but now it makes me really calm now it makes me feel like great because I think about how I'm just a speck on this little speck on a speck on a speck and it makes me feel really comfortable I feel like I feel like I don't know why I think I know away responsibility yeah maybe a little bit maybe it means I'm not as big as my my brain makes me feel

like I'm like I am I've been thinking a lot about how we can only know as far as we can perceive there like we're that's why everyone's egos are huge is is we only know what what man I knew I was gonna sound like a goober on this podcast I feel someone else say something while you're saying that it's like what we only what is it we only know we only know as much as we is around us at any given time or no it's man we'll find it okay let me I gotta sit here while y'all like yeah look about girls I'm gonna sit here and like just stay contemplate the condom my tea contemplate there you can see that's what an enlightened

person says and there you have the Zen master that's the that's the cool thing about what you what I really like about what you're saying is is this is that once you do start realizing how small you are in relation to everything it's just a thought experiment even though you can never experience you don't even know if there is a universe you know you barely you don't know what's outside of this thing it could be a big trick being played on all of us but tools like that to reduce you can be quite useful because they you start putting down this like what does it call it so it's a lopsism where where you think that you're

the source of everything I mean that's the ultimate ego state that a lot of people get in which is sort of you think okay I know that I experience the universe mm-hmm but I don't know that anyone else around me experiences the universe I can't get into your head I don't know if you're feeling anything in fact you may very well just be a projection that I'm of something from inside of me I'm just the universe having some kind of hallucination I think that's called so it's a lot season yeah and it's basically a trick where you start thinking that you're God and then that can create problems yeah buddy

that's what I'm thinking about what you're thinking of what what that example like yeah I don't know if anyone else is actually a conscious being or a projection I guess this might also help I've also been thinking about how like the only thing that I can really trust is that I can't trust my brain or anyone else's this is all just a mess up here and everyone's is a little different and that's and that's and everyone but everyone has really hard ideas really like everyone knows like factual truths yeah in their life but it's all relevant to them it's not because that's how they right and that's

how they that stuff frustrates me a lot but absolute truths man anytime someone starts saying absolute shit yeah usually it's wrong yeah I mean generally if you look at human history every single absolute truth that anyone said is almost always been proven wrong yeah man you just know what like fucking like sorry you just you know you can be like this is how much we know now but I'm not whole you know I'm not make I'm gonna put any money on it you know I mean sure why have that I do I have that attitude of like the Sun you know I had a I have these friends who are like eight you know these atheist friends or like

materialist friends and they'll they'll say stuff to me like science has figured everything pretty much figured out the universe now I'm like are you stupid man like in 20 years everything that you know we've come up with at this point is going to be wrong they keep they keep backtracking about black holes you know yeah they do over and over again there black holes are a portal to another dimension black holes you'll get crushed you'll just get crushed and die like yeah and the highest level scientists you know are saying this stuff and contradicting each other they don't know what they're talking about and now

these sons of bitches are getting into the whole simulator theory like what about that that you know about that no no this is amazing a thing which is that this idea that it that people keep returning to which is that we're in some kind of super advanced alien computer simulation and that there's like ways that they are showing that this is the case and because there's apparently and I don't know anything about quantum physics but when there's black there's certain particulates that will snap to a size things snap to a size as though they're on a frame if it's look if they're smaller than that

size they just blink out now I don't understand that very well you guys I'll put a link to it so you guys who are smarter can process this shit but the indication is oh yeah that's that's a framework that seems to be what's like vector graphics or whatever yes exactly exactly draw a vector line and you fuck it up and then it turns into a straight line yes yes and it makes sense look man this all to me that simulation theory makes more sense than any other thing the in science just because if you look at what's coming down the pipes as far as video games go the Oculus Rift have you seen this son of a bitch yeah the

odd you've seen the Oculus Rift have you put one on no what is it I haven't a Kickstarter I think I've funded that Kickstarter I'll bring over the prototype are you fucking kidding me I'm not you have an Oculus coming to you yeah how much do you have to donate to get an Oculus it's worth it I think it was maybe more than do you play video games yeah okay okay okay awesome Pendleton you do drugs oh yeah that means you do drugs because video games are a drug it's just a different type of drug sure man I also eat pizza yeah yeah well I don't know if pizza is like you don't think so pizza some people say the processed wheat

is a drug well I think video games are as much a drug as any other drug it's just the way that they're causing your chemicals to shift around in your brain is through the optic nerve instead of your digestive system but it's still created creates a buzz now is it it's not as dangerous and it's not in the sense that you're not like introducing some alien chemical into your system but you're certainly like creating like a hypnotic trance which is a beautiful thing I love them so this Oculus Rift man is apparently and I don't know because I've never worn one but I'm going to because my best friend buddy is it a VR

helmet what is it yeah essentially but we want you keep talking about it's a bad ass VR helmet that it's a consumer based VR helmet I've only the videos on the internet are people putting it on yeah and the initial state of like what the fuck because it does perfect tracking when you move your head when you look up when you look down and also because of the way it's set up it creates three dimensions so you feel like you're in a 3d movie you're inside of it puts you inside of it yeah this is the point and that's just now we just barely stop being monkeys and we're already you know what I mean in universal time we were just are

you gonna be tripping over your coffee table and shit like trying to walk around your house you said you could you're gonna freak but you just sit down and you go into this world you know and and so if that's already happening and it's all apparently this incredibly vivid experience than in a hundred years they will replicate reality in a way that makes it indistinguishable from the reality that we're currently experiencing yeah philosophy behind simulation theory is that if that's going to happen it already happened yeah it's more likely that it already happened than it's going to happen for the

first time and so if that already happened then we're inside of it right now we're inside the machine and the machine is telescoping inwards as it continues to replicate itself via you know micro virtual realities that humans are creating so yeah black holes are just the goddamn plugs wait so okay I don't so we are ever you're saying that we actually are like program and we're not it's not matrix style where we're in pods being doped we don't know what that what we okay that would be like that I don't think we know what we are I think that's you can just say that that's my blanket sort of theory for all

things yeah we don't know we don't know things I believe in almost everything everything actually because you can't prove that something can't be yeah someone asked me that question the other day is it or do you are you religious or do you have any religious beliefs and I said yeah just believe in everything why not well what about I guess the problem yeah believing in everything yeah I believe in even things that contradict the other beliefs does that make sense doesn't mean yeah well yeah I mean it depends you know as I think that I'm confused by a lot of things yeah I'm I just you know I just didn't the older I

get the more I just turn into a Buddhist I just end up like just so simple and it's like you know they ask Buddha what happens after you die and he's like don't worry about it it's really nothing for you to really worry about right now because you're alive how's that gonna help you you know what are you okay fine you figure out what happens after you die you're still living like a dick yeah it's still fun to think about though I mean that yeah I mean I don't think you can put you can put you don't have to put that much weight on it because you just don't know no matter how much you read or how much you meditate or you

know think on stuff you just won't you won't know until you you know until you die but it's fun that you know it's fun to think about at least oh yeah and it helps the creative I think it helps to create your your mind just like work you know jogging the treadmill it's like jogging on a treadmill thinking about death putting your yeah it's like your brain's a hamster wheel yeah well I run into people who don't think about death I get worried about them you don't think about that well no I mean thinking about death is a fine experiment it's the thing after death where it's like well look just make up whatever you want

to make up because you're never gonna know as far as the exercise of thinking about death yeah there is a Buddhist meditation where monks would go and sit at the edge of chalk of pits where bodies were thrown and they would watch the body decompose day after day after day just watch the thing rot and smell the fumes and watch the birds eat it and through that process they you know and the ideas to induce as much as possible into you the realization that what you're composed of is impermanent so that you can get closer to that truth that's a truth that's a pretty undeniable truth I'd say you think kids

should do that in school like they should stare at dead bodies yeah well they fucking take a field trip to a graveyard yes that would be a great exercise for kids absolutely get them out of that goddamn bullshit like you know kids are shoved into the fine line I would take my truth you I would take do you think when what's what age do you think kids you go watch it body decompose well it depends on what part of the world you're living in I mean one of the great you know if you're living in Syria right now then you know it just depends middle-class kids middle-class American kids what what age what age

middle-class American kids see a rotting I don't know I think that's a question for a second I don't you know I think 17 you probably catch that stuff on the internet I remember seeing all kinds of the most horrible things when I was like that's like enter that's entertainment you know kids watch those faces of death videos when they're like 10 years old they're really fucked up kids they're like yo man watch this I'm like what are you making me watch right now you can you can be cynical and be more of it when you're a kid but it's also rocking your world when you're by yourself yes it is rocking every every

death every death video I've seen has rocked my world yeah yeah they're they're really intense and the reason that they're so world-rocking is because you're seeing the truth you're seeing the in undeniable evidence of what happens to the the meat body that you happen to be inhabiting at this moment and the reason I say I don't mean I sounds cow so like show a kid a rotting corpse I don't mean like you drag kids to the cemeteries and stuff I do think there's something to be said for compassionately being truthful with children I think your original example is is not I mean that's a good I think

that's a good it sounds good to me yeah I mean the rot pit the Buddhist watching over the rod pit I think that sounds some like a positive a positive thing I think it's a positive thing because finally what happens through watching the process of death if you've ever been around a dying person and you see that this very natural thing kicks in where it's a fractal where you see like the way you have the pattern of the person's life they are there's the broad pattern which consists of there's generally people have like a a rudder that's what we they call karma and it's the rudder is the rudder of their life and that's

what how they've steered through the ocean of time and you know that rudder causes them to navigate in a certain way and this is the repetitive patterns that people experience in their life and when you die those repetitive patterns they they they happen all the way up to the moment of death that that way that you've been processing the universe so when you see people start dying and you see that process start kicking in you'll the patterns seem to be more pronounced you know as is and you begin to see oh this is just a natural repetition of almost like an echo of this person's beingness and you can see

the echo more clearly as they approach oblivion and there's something incredibly natural about it when you give you ever been around it do you ever see someone die yeah I saw a guy commit suicide jump off a bridge and drown in the winter I saw him like swimming up to the surface to try to get air it was fucking crazy and I tried I thought about jumping in to save this guy but it was the middle of winter in Philadelphia and I was on a bridge about 70 feet up and you know part so all I could do is watch this guy swimming I think he had tied something to his legs so that he couldn't swim yeah he couldn't swim up

out of the water so I saw him his face come out of the water and swallowing water into his mouth and then sink back into the into the river wow yeah wow that's crazy yeah did you ever see anybody dive in no I saved someone's life from drowning when I was a kid but I don't have any memory of it my family told me that I did yeah that's pretty cool do you think do you feel like your own personal karmic obstacles that you feel where you were born with yeah I mean I I can see oh yes definitely I see I mean I can see very clearly like my I definitely know what my I can see my problems yeah you know I play do you

think but do you think you didn't develop them in this life that they just were part of your your like you know your what you were born with do you I don't know I don't know I have no idea if it's like some I don't really care about the reincarnation thing very much I like to think about it is for fun yeah yeah but I would say that it's just some sort of like you know everyone's got their own weird little behavior mechanism that they said they invented to try to turn away from the present moment because the present moment is shocking or something so everyone's got their you know different tricks that they used to ignore the truth so for me it's like I you know I'll get addicted to video games or

I'll get caught up in internet loops that's a big problem I have right now just a real basic internet addiction I have that full-blown full-blown internet addiction hey real quick I want to go back to what we were talking about a moment ago because I had an idea I think kids should see monks at least when they're younger I think because you don't know you don't know what you don't know what anything is until you see an example of it and you don't know what a peaceful person is until you see someone uh shooting for it you know you see a monk and when I was little I saw monks because my mom took me to an art exhibit where they were making a mandala say a mandala and I think that was just became a beacon in my life to to shoot for that to because that seemed to be

the best way to live like these guys these dudes with shaved heads and robes doing this beautiful piece of artwork and then they they scooped it all up and they put it in a little baggy when they were done and it was like that's that seems perfect to me that seems like the best way to live and the happiest way to live I had a friend I wouldn't know unless I had seen it you know you don't know anything just in anything artwork you're like you don't you don't know what to shoot for until you see an example of it because you can turn into anything right if we're raised in the wild you know you can turn into anything you know what they do with those baggies put them in a river yeah dump them what baggies baggies of sand oh okay so you saw so that's

so that had a big impact on you seeing the Tibetans making the sand mandala yeah they seemed at peace and it seems like what do you you know you're asking yourself what what do you do with your time shoot for peace shoot for being as happy as you can be and I've seen the thing that looked like the happiest place that anyone could be state of mind wise and so now that that was my my bar and the mandala thing is an anti-legacy philosophy I guess you mean you make a thing and then you erase it yeah and that's like a huge statement which is the opposite of what we do we do in life what do you mean the mandala like everything I'm in my mind is like geared towards building a memory for people when I'm dead you know that's what you you strive for

that's my guilty admission yeah you know I want that when I'm dead people will be like this guy made comics and cartoons and this shit was awesome you know and and and then then I live on past my death or something on the in the material plane that's such an easy thing to deconstruct as like a as a terrible way to live though you know you could so surface level yeah because you know the thing that's going to live on how long it's going to live on it's not going to live on forever like 15 years that's that idea is worthless I know but I think about that a lot because I'm like what am I going to do what I've got this thing it's really popular I did I do did I do it did I achieve the best thing no of course yeah because it's going to be dust like anything else and

so then what is the best thing what is the best thing and so you know and we I work in entertainment and I think like what I mean why I consider myself maybe more commercial is because because what cartoons did for me it was they were a really nice just escape into weirdness when I was a little kid and also they did the same thing that looking at amongst it was like they sort of set an example for like what's what's bizarre and what's a really fun place you know what can I shoot for as far as being creative you know like Ren Stimpy when I was a little kid was great it was a wonderful place for me to live inside my brain and you know I guess and I wanted to return the favor to kids that are sitting around doing I don't know you create that spark

that moment of inspiration or that that passes along so you one generation inspires another you know with a moment of thing like this I remember this crazy image from Ren and Stimpy and that changed my life you know or something like that it's not so much bolstering the legacy of John Kay it's more it's more just a memory of of a you know you know a Ren eating soap in on a spaceship or something yeah that shocked your brain when you were a kid yeah it rocked my world and it made me feel great inside and and to and I'm like what's the bet what's what kind of what power do I have in this world what can I do with me I'm going to create that spark for a kid who's sitting at home you know you do that thing that

I that I love so much when I was little but then that but then now that I've been doing that it's like okay I did it and now is that the best thing that I can do what's the best thing that I just keep asking myself that question what's the best thing I can do with my time are you still you haven't come up with the answer though no because it's temperates because I just yeah I just blew up that other thing that you were talking about because that's exactly what it is to use the opposite it's a monument sort of this also has to do with girls is yeah here it is skip ahead the weather where we at what's the minute mark we're at 45 45 that's so we're talking about what's the best thing I can do you know and this was years ago but this is with that same girl that

I still I can't get over I remember being in bed with her one day and we were really this was at a good point in our lives like we were really happy and and out of the blue I was like hey hey I'm really happy about our relationship I really you know love you a lot but I want you to know that someday if we're together in the future I'm going to disappear oh man why would I say that why you don't you you said it you I you say you don't want to do you don't want a girlfriend you say things like that when you don't know I'm going to disappear because I what's the best thing you can do in your life and that's the you know I mean what well you're already disappeared here's it let me throw in a really crazy idea which is a

Buddhist idea which is like you're you have disappeared yeah and you are experiencing the illusion of beingness and it's this temporary transient thing which is like something that I've I struggle with wrapping my head around but it's this idea of like well they call it out there's a great name for it god damn it oh the codependent not code no not codependent that's my parents dependent origination have you ever heard this term before no no so dependent origination is this idea that everything that exists depends on something prior to it everything that is came from some other things so dependent origination is the idea that that book there that you're looking at is actually if you could like step out of time then what you would see is this incredible thread

of particles that lead to wherever the ink came from and the book came from trees and the trees came from the ground and the ground came from exploded star particulates which came from an explosion of energy which was the big bang which who knows it was vomited out of the mouth of a god dog or something we don't know before the big bang but the idea is that you yourself in this very moment are just a waveform that is temporarily congealed on the human form and has come to the sense of awareness that you it gives you the illusion of being this one in fact you're just this momentary bend in space and time that will smooth itself out in a blip in an instant completely gone and also all of your work and all of your writing and all of your comic books

even if you sit sat down tomorrow channeled god and wrote the most incredible comic book ever made that like could extend what the acts the characters would come out and climb into the the ears of the readers and dance in their brains even that will not matter because you know the sun is going to go into supernova and everything's gonna become evaporated right so it's the idea that the funny thing humans do is they attach themselves and try to cling to this idea that you're going to make something last or that anything is a thing at all but even relationship you're just destroying jesse right now god already destroyed jesse i'm just telling him he's been destroyed no listen i know all this stuff it's just you know it's a conflict in myself and okay here's my question

then what do you do about relationships if everything you do is going to get destroyed in the sun what are you supposed to be find someone right who is on the same page about that or can they be on a different page about that stuff like when you talk about hey we're all going to get absorbed by the the when the sun supernovas who gives a fart well our corpses are the dust of us it's not we got a few you know a thousand years before that right i know but does your girlfriend or boyfriend have to be on the same page with you about that stuff like can can they be like i don't know can you be in a relationship with someone that doesn't understand that like impermanence or possible uh you know it's a simulation of like what we're experiencing yeah why not can they just be

like i i want to start at i don't know yeah yeah oh yeah yeah i seriously i mean well i mean nothing wrong with that people who do i see are great but do you know i mean uh i want to um be uh i want to be uh actress or you know something that's it what do you think pen uh yes of course and the whole time you know you know that it's fucking stupid that you should be in the woods you know like disappearing from you shouldn't be trying to create uh you know some kind of memory of yourself being in the woods makes me like you know we're we're tourists and in in life yeah and uh you know if you if you if you're going uh yeah i think you but it but you're talking about this one specific thing i am that you need to relate relate to a girlfriend with yeah and i think

that's something that you can just understand that uh the supernova is going to happen and then you can continue to be a tourist for you know and and then we're in work you know and and uh and uh does that take away from your happy happy in the moment right let's talk about happy in the moment yeah okay happy in the moment that's all you got is the moment yeah i mean that's the other thing that that you begin to realize is that that really there is just this moment i mean there isn't a past there isn't a future there's just this moment there's never a future a future doesn't exist there's never a past the past is your encoded memories there's just this one thing happening now and we and this one thing happening right now has tricked our little monkey brains into thinking

there's time because the ball that we're on rotates in a certain way that makes a light and dark periods of the exact same link which gives the illusion of some progression when in fact if you remove that planet or you remove the sun one or the other you know you just have this one equanimous shining thing or just absolute darkness right so in that sense there's no real time at all we just sort of give ourselves the illusion of time when there's just this moment but if your girlfriend's lack of supernova consciousness is continuing to remind you uh that there that time exists then yeah maybe you should break up wait so if you've got gotta break up with your bitch you make me remember time yeah wait but that happens every time i'm in a relationship they try to

make a human watch they try to remember make me remember time man i'm looking on like that buddha is a just you know uh remove uh what is it uh that idea of being detached compassionate uh detachment is that what that is that where you step back you're outside of the mindfulness yeah it is mindfulness but you you step out of the drama out of the yeah the thing the the events in life that are that pull you into hell you make your life crazy and like you know i mean you step outside of those things but those stepping outside of those things is also what makes people use those events to create markers in their life that was when i was a crazy alcoholic and i and i destroyed people's homes a fucking crazy man i can talk about it you know or that was a time i was in a

horrible dysfunctional relationship and uh but we really loved each other and you know i mean people create these markers for their lives and if you're with a girl or a guy or whatever you're in a relationship that is based the other person is creating those because they're living in the in the thing they're not detached they're not well can you live perpetually in the moment is that a thing that's some people moment can you what can you live perpetually in the moment can you not can you all keep that that contentness can you stay happy in that moment for for the for your entire life i sure as fuck can't but it has someone done it and they say yeah yeah these today you know they do say that there are people that you run into from time to time that

have that seem to just be uh with that guy right there neem kerali baba maharaji they say it was uh when you came into contact with that that guy uh he was just this they all you know there's different words for i think ramaana there's another one i can't have a girlfriend uh he's got yeah you know neem kerali baba had kids oh okay so he spawned but the the the notion of like oh be a celibate don't be with a girl you know to find realization is uh is uh i think a very silly idea it's the idea is it's like every single thing that you're encountering whatever it is whether it's you can't find a girlfriend and you're lonely or whether you're in a relationship and you're unhappy all of these things are lessons that have been that are kind of like pull-up bars with which you

can their energy packets that you can transform into something that makes you evolve so there's no like oh my girlfriend wants an etsy account and i want to think about the uh fact that we're all plunging towards oblivion yeah it's like well in a way they're both kind of the same thing anyway yeah all right it's just her version of oblivion is etsy yeah it's like i don't know if you love somebody and you feel that sense of connection there's no rama says that the best or the ideal relationship is a pyramid which means at the top of the pyramid is uh the idea of like whatever you want to call the spiritual path meditation finding happiness present moment being in the present moment and the two people that's what their focus is on you know their focus is on another way to put it

i just heard this at this cafe i overheard it at a table somebody was saying the couple that knits together stays together yeah and i knew what they were talking about even though i'm not knitting doesn't appeal to me yeah but if you're a couple and you have this other thing that you're working on then it things tend to be a lot better than if the relationship is always is it's is the project yeah yeah yeah the supreme goal what's funny what's funny is uh i uh i bring like when i'm drinking with natasha my girlfriend i bring her down all the time because i start talking about death yeah and it's the opposite of what you're talking about like i i i bring the moment down from sort of just a happy in the moment feeling like let's think about death let's think about the end and

i stop time i like you know i create time or whatever you know we're talking about yeah yeah but it's the opposite i'm not talking about my is it because that's etsy i'm talking i'm talking about this kind of stuff do you want answers from her or are you just trying to work it out um i'm just talking i'm just uh i'm just like looking at an old man who's bent over i'm just like oh my gosh look at that yeah look at that and then just started blabbing about i think i was at an october fest sort of thing and i saw a dude and and uh when he calls things those leather pants just bent just bent over no the leader hosen he was just uh bent his back was like 45 degree and i'm just like man that really makes me stop fuck yeah i'm just thinking about

i can't remember what i said but but i was i was the the bummer that ain't a bummer man that's like you know about the buddhas what the buddhas saw you know the story of buddha the he was a prince and you know all that stuff no he was a prince siddhartha gautama he was in this beauty he went there was a prophecy and they told his dad your son's either going to be a conqueror with the greatest like war leader that's ever lived or he's going to be like the an enlightened world changing teacher and so his father's like well i don't want to you know it's some kind of yapping hippie as a son i'm a king and i want to conquering son so he tried to keep his son away from the world and he gets prince siddhartha gautama had a harem of the most beautiful women and was given anything

that he wanted at any time and uh was just living this opulent life and then the story is that he went out he got one of he got someone to take him outside the palace and he saw three things he saw are four things i can't remember no three things he saw i sort of know this story son old man yeah he saw a corpse and he saw a monk he saw a monk and uh that made him realize oh this this other stuff is just like distraction from the truth of my existence which is that i'm gonna fucking oh i think he saw a disease man maybe but the point is like this goddamn thing i'm in it's gonna fuck up you know this body's gonna collapse and fall in on itself i'm gonna die why am i spending my time on etsy i gotta eat i gotta eat bird shit yeah i gotta go and eat bird shit you know what i

mean like so but it's like you don't the idea is not like so then you don't spend your life the rest of your time looking at old been over old men it's like but you digest that truth so that you feel it fully you would you digest the truth of your own impermanence till you just or you just that's it you've gotten there and then you go down to your etsy account okay done and done got it it's fixed i'm fixed figured it out i can go get a girlfriend now you really want a girlfriend huh uh yeah man i'm tired you know i'm sick of what i'm doing i'm doing the wrong i've been doing the wrong thing jesse you're like you're a handsome guy you're a great writer thanks man you got this amazing comic book yeah i'm gonna have to post your guide are you on okay cupid no i was

i was i quit ladies of los angeles who listen to this show i have got in front of me a beautiful man who would he doesn't care if you have etsy right no man i love etsy etsy is awesome i've bought i bought a tablecloth on etsy etsy i think if you're making stuff i know tons of cool girls that make cool stuff on on etsy i was just trying to you know it could have been your profile right now yeah okay cupid is the worst thing on the planet it's it's terrible i've had i went on two dates on okay cupid it was it was okay but it's just like it's wrong man it's all set up all wrong i don't know i i didn't drive with it i didn't drive with it how long have you been with your lady pin uh two years i think that's what we're saying yeah uh it's awesome we we're getting along really

great you guys live together it's awesome man no we don't you ever think about but making the big move yeah i do i think about it a lot um how many times have you lived with with a girlfriend i've lived with girls one two three three times i've never done it oh yeah it is fucked yeah that's what i thought it is fucked it can be fucked you gotta like you gotta have a lot of space you've got to really be in love you've got to really want to maybe make a baby yeah but if you can avoid it don't do it just don't do it you don't have to do it you don't have to go out okay we're not living in the in the goddamn jungle anymore there's no dragons that we have to defend ourselves from but then part of me doubts that too because at some point if you're with a girl for a while

why haven't you moved in with them what are you afraid of you know i mean and that to me that's that's a fear i have why have i never decided to move in with a girl that i really like you don't want to be consumed by absolute boredom yeah you can listen you can still listen to your records everything changes everything changes everything changes yeah when when you live with a girl everything changes and it's a beautiful thing and you fall in love and you're in this loving state and it's all based on this beautiful thing the next thing you know you got to three years later you just feel just this sense of like well i guess that's that would you ever get married i would yes i would get married i would have babies i would do i don't hold myself i don't

like stay i'm never gonna do that i just know from my i know i tend to move in with people yeah i know that tends to happen i know the thing tends to disintegrate so how would you avoid how would you keep i'm sorry go ahead pen how do you keep it from i don't know if i really need to say this okay say it let's hear it for me i'm a monster like when i'm by myself and i i'm i'm afraid of losing that because i like being a horrible monster like i do i like being in my den as den is i don't like that word i like being in my room my my little room in my blankets with like pizza and video games and the lights off and the like the curtains pulled i really man i like being in my hole my i guess hole is better yeah well my no i'm not gonna say that pod i'll

take pot and that's i mean but that's such a goofy uh uh thing to be afraid of losing is uh are you kidding you don't want to lose that that's fucking golden that's the garden of Eden that's not a goofy thing to want to lose that's those precious moments as you get to be completely yourself in absolute isolation doing whatever you want with nobody judging you for the way you act fuck you don't want to lose that never lose that yeah man you can't lose that but you can though you have i mean you don't have to but that's the sacrifice there's no fuck that there's no you don't have to sacrifice that isn't it healthy to to to lose that maybe healthy to lose what to lose that horrible like monsters hold like well you just called it my horrible monstrous but you know that's how you

define it but maybe it's not that you know no you get the BB gun range in your basement does it bother you it bothers you that you do it it sounds like it might bother you that you do that it bothers like it feels it doesn't feel doesn't feel healthy when i'm like i sleep too way too long you know in my hole and i i like i don't know it doesn't seem like a healthy place uh maybe you need it man you're producing this insane beautiful cartoon and i know that you guys aren't just doing that a couple of hours a day i know it's a full-time job right i must be you must be constantly absorbed into that plus i want nothing else but to sit and do absolutely nothing that's that like that is i want it so bad to do absolutely zero but to do that makes me feel

horrible and when i go out and i and i produce art or you know i sit at a coffee shop and i draw for a whole day and i feel amazing i feel full of life and i just feel super happy yeah and then sitting and doing absolutely nothing feels even better it feels yeah feels great i'm the opposite of that yeah you were you're sort of a rare creature because you you produce so much work you output constantly and you manage your time extraordinarily well i can't manage my time i've that's something that is real that's not something that i can work towards getting better i will sit and stare at a wall until there's just a few minutes left before i have a deadline that's what i do i had to tell well you know and i'm i'm creating i was running this tv show and there's there's a lot of people

on the line like on the line and i'm at the top of this thing that yeah so i had a lot i had to tell production to lie to me about when deadlines were so that i would rush to get something done and it's pathetic you know it's to me it's like it puts a lot of people out yeah and but that's just how i work and i've had to figure out tricks to get me to work and one of them is going to a shop a coffee shop because uh i don't like making eye contact with people yes and so when i'm sitting at that table i'll look up and i'll ding connect with somebody and i'll look straight down and then all i've got in front of me is my work yeah so that's one trick that i use i've got a bunch of them so you go to coffee you go to coffee shops to to draw under to to write right yeah to write

yeah that's where you go to write the scripts yeah i write and draw and we it's it's storyboard driven i don't want to i don't need to go into process too much but we write and draw everything out at the same time uh yeah like i go to i go to coffee shops to make eye contact with i contact with people because i'm so lonely that's because you're looking for a lady but i also go there to work so my it's i don't go to coffee i go i don't go to a coffee shop because i want to work because i want to make eye contact with people because i feel that way i feel connected to society not like a crazy man in my house you know i mean yeah i love being a crazy man in my house i hate being a crazy man in my house i hate him when a crazy man in my house jessie how old are you uh 30 fuck 35 35

you look you're you seem like a young you see so you're yeah don't even worry you know what man you got to drop this fine in a girl thing man yeah well all right i did basically give it up for real isn't that the weird trick you just give it up and then i don't know if that's true in la i i've found it to be true yeah i've found that the times that i've completely given up the idea yeah that there is going to be another girl yeah that's usually when someone emerges from the background and i've seen girls casually i've had casual girlfriends since moving to la about three three years ago i moved here yeah but nothing you know i haven't had that click you know that connection yeah i'm like this person is on my level like understands what i'm

talking about you know or what i'm thinking or feeling or you know or like what my priorities are you know um like with that supreme goal idea like how do you find someone that has that that supreme goal you know doesn't have to be the exact same thing but like what are you talking about like two people meet and they're both trying to get to the top of this pyramid you know like man i always summon my girls yeah yeah i always do like when i get you know you know like you can pray yeah and you can i thought about making a drawing and putting you know like uh sympathetic magic science yeah i dude will hack into the pentagon and make a lady for you yeah yeah if i just draw one and i put it in a floppy disk driver why don't you do that yeah do a ritual yeah i've

thought about doing doing that do you know about uh sex magic i don't know anything about sex magic you have the best laugh in i know that chili pepper's helpful you well here's what you do this is this is what you do yeah this sounds so crazy it's alice are one of crowley's like main like tricks but it's like and a lot of different people do it but it's like the idea is and this is why porn is probably kind of dangerous because the idea from like the occult universe or a lot of people have this idea that the state of orgasm is a magical state is like an rarefied intense magical state and that whatever you visualize during that state uh it's it's a that's what that's how a lot of people do rituals so some people do this thing called how do you say sigil

is a sigil right yeah sigil yeah sigil magic which is they will cut they will come up with a phrase something they want something that they're desiring and they'll write this they'll come up with this artistic way of embodying that in a seal where if you were to look at if anybody else was to look at it they probably wouldn't even know what it meant it just is like strange symbols and we i'm sure you've seen them you know i'm in grimoires and shit it's those circular things with like weird like braxist style things so you do one of those you imbue the god damn thing with your um the energy of of orgasm so you fucking jerk off onto it not or just while looking at it while looking at it you're jerking off and you're imagining as clearly as you can this whatever the

thing is that you want and then you come as you're staring at this thing right and so then you take that thing and that's where you know it varies according to what school magic you're in if you're into like paganism then you might take the thing and bury it underneath a tree some people do that stuff or then you know whatever the thing is and that sometimes will bring uh will create an effect in your life i mean it's a you know whether or not there's some metaphysical thing that happens when you come and it like it goes to the astral plane and connects to somebody who you're meant to run into i'll go try that tonight i'll try that later today well it's great for an artist too you know yeah yeah it's it's really fun and then what you do another thing that you can do is like

don't forget this other part of it which is really fun which you wouldn't like pin but you get get stoned get baked like it really frighteningly high don't go into like a place of like normal high right go into a place where you're like deep deep deep deep into it so you do it as you do it you have a ritual intoxicant yeah and then make sure that you know like north south east west because you're you know there's certain like directions that you face during these rituals and then you can make your own ritual make it but make it real yeah and get into a place where you like you know have you ever gotten so stunned suddenly feel the fear yeah uh every time i get past a certain level of stone i feel the fear yeah go there why well because that's the magical state

oh so then you go into the place where you hate that shit well yeah it's scary as fuck man this is why they draw circles yeah why do you think a magician draws a circle uh to because of the fucking fear you got to beat back the demons i started having panic attack panic attacks like at the moment before sleep because i feel like out of control you know i mean that part that part of you when you start daydreaming and start hearing voices and stuff everyone's like jesse or something yeah i was talking about that recently that freaks me i start i start spinning like i have to breathe heavy before i fall asleep you what what do you mean you uh and it happens when you're sleeping and i just realized that this happens to more people than just me because i wouldn't have talked

about it if uh if i didn't know that but uh but yeah yeah if you're sleeping maybe you'll hear and just like hey yeah yeah you know just real quick and you're like oh and one time i was like i'm gonna listen for it i'm gonna try to hear it because i know it's coming and i listened to it and it was real loud and it was real real yeah i was like hey and it's like oh that's a bad idea don't list don't seek out the schizophrenic you know yeah mental state don't you know because i feel like you know you could i could slip and then just be there and then and never get out yeah uh we were talking about this a little bit earlier uh about schizophrenia and maybe you've talked about this before but it was uh something about uh bacteria microbes that are in your body

that are related to that they've been talking you've seen those videos about bugs that get yes uh like grubs in them that like get inside their brain and push them towards things that they wouldn't normally be at and how human beings have something like that and it that's related to schizophrenia yes the one that makes you like cats or like it's in rats and it makes them go towards cat pee yeah it's called toxic it's it's toxic plasmosis and they it's from cat litter yeah mind control mind control by little bugs inside of us well that we were more bacteria than anything else i mean that's it that's like the you know when you when that's the thing when you you carry around with you inside you the thing that like you know like when they have

self-destructing envelopes or for spies that burst into flames after you read it well we're self-destructing envelopes and it's the bacteria that makes us just you know that explodes out of our stomachs but yeah we're mostly bacteria anyway so man it kind of makes sense that these like parasitic things could control our minds you're saying that that's what a demon is whoa uh i was just saying that's that's what's in its parasites let's do stuff like that and that might be related to these voices maybe well yeah i mean i i think those you know those voices that you're talking about man those are like when you're hearing those voices i don't look at it as schizophrenia that's pre astral projection that's like when you're in that state of deep relaxation where if

you can just keep your mind from falling asleep then you can begin to like you know experiment with like astral projection and lucid dreaming that's when you get that sleep paralysis and yeah one time i had a astral project i astral projected out of my body when i was on vacation with a girlfriend and we were in spain and i think i was so tired from uh from the trip from the plane ride you know we were in a hostel and i was i fell asleep but it was like this uncomfortable sleep so i didn't quite fall asleep and then i heard a voice i heard that voice talking to me me like yeah hey jessie wake up jessie don't fall asleep count down from 10 or whatever so i did it i counted down from 10 10 9 8 and then as i was doing that i floated

out of my body and i was up up on the ceiling looking at myself and my girlfriend i got so excited that um it was so vivid you know and i got so excited i was like trying to call out to my girlfriend be like yo check check me out flying or whatever and then doing that caused me to sink back into my body and then when i did um i couldn't move i was paralyzed because it was like sort of this half i didn't like sink up i guess yeah and the guy was like why'd you do that and then and then i was struggled for a while and then i screamed and uh woke her up uh yeah that's it that's the experience right there man yeah those voices go along with astral projection that i the first time i ever had that i don't do anymore when i was a kid i did it had a few

experiences with it and it was like i woke up heard it's weird it's always like hey what the fuck is that or it's your name maybe or it's oh yeah a distant a distant call someone someone talking somewhere you're hearing something somewhat like a voice somewhere and there's terror involved in it yeah it's a sense of like just intense terror it's too much i think because you think it's going to keep going or something like is this just going to happen while i'm walking around like am i going to keep hearing voices i'm going to be one of those guys on the street that's that's how i feel sometimes is that going to keep happening well this is the funny thing about the oculus rift is that when you see people put that oculus rift on one thing that they report

is how weird it is to hear voices when you're wearing this kind of digital blindfold because it is the schizophrenic experience you're in a different cartoony whatever the video game is you're in a different realm and when you hear a voice out in in reality it seems like a disembodied voice like hey how's that how's the rift you know so so right the rift you're in the rift in the still maybe that's what these voices are a game for it i don't not yet i don't think so they created a world that you can walk around in there's a few games that i think work for it but i don't think they're creating games specifically for it as far as i know well they're developed they say that they've contacted a bunch of by the way it's it's we've been it's an hour and 17 minutes but

i want to ask you about what video games you like yeah yeah i should probably do like a shout out to the dung and trussell uh minecraft server oh all those dudes william i don't know any of these people by the way you've been hanging out in the server yeah and i i dug a big hole and i put some leaves in it and i put some some torches up and you can go find it that's bad if y'all if y'all sign on i'll be there probably most most evenings oh holy shit do you guys hear that that's badass congratulations minecraft server is it there's a bunch of stuff what have you seen do you do you have you been through it at all i haven't been in in a few months there's there's like a monument to your testicle there's thanks guys and there's it's really nice looking in there by the way

i've been to a few minecraft servers and this one's particularly beautiful wow you just blew a lot of people's minds pin you just melted a lot of brains that's cool man yeah i love that i love going in there but i get i i um i haven't gone in there in a while i'm gonna visit i'm gonna visit it again i haven't been in a while you so that's your primary game minecraft i dig it i dig it because there's no real goal it's it's more it's uh it's you just make up your own sort of journey through it and you can do almost anything you want you just dig and create build things and talk and just move around and look explore so for me it's it's really casual and nice for me to play i enjoy it um but also i'm also playing i play lots of games man i love games uh also because i want

to make games i just i buy that's what i that's what i spend my money on it's just buying games buying i buy terrible games because i want to know what's bad about games pc mostly or console everything console computer i'm playing dead space three which is really nasty which is the opposite of minecraft is it fun it's super fun but it it's like nightmarish you play it on the xbox i play it on xbox i'm gonna go buy it that's i really i was like i was uh i've been um on the fence about it because i read some shitty reviews of it oh it's it's great and it feels it's really fun to play it's just uh like it's just really gross and but it's scary for me at least i get sucked into it and like you want there's these boxes everywhere and there's corpses items inside

the corpses and to get them out you have to stomp on them and it's this nasty noise and it makes me feel fucked up when i'm like stomping on all these corpses but i need the health health pack uh that's the thing that that's my like worst thing to say about but uh yeah it's a lot of fun i got into minecraft for a couple months then i gave up on it yeah i was playing the apocalypse minor server minor apocalypse minor apocalypse server and uh uh me and penn have talked about this like why i gave up on but that server was like the wild west where like any anything went uh you you know you'd build a house but then raiders would come in to and burn it down and they'd steal all your stuff and so it was like oh it's a real end of end of society's no order scenario everyone's

cheating and everyone's fucking each other up kind of thing it's not it seems it seems that that sounds really fun yeah minecraft is weird minecraft is one of the only video games that ever made me feel lonely because i would play by myself and i and and like you i would dig tunnels down and that music comes on yes yeah it makes you feel lonely comes in you're like it's a good feeling though it's sort of like that's what made me like it was that you're in a mine you're all by yourself in the darkness you know and then this pretty music comes on and makes you feel sentimental or something about being lonely about being by yourself or something that's the feeling i would get from maybe you were listening to the nighttime chime because the the daylight chime is kind of uplifting

i would say yeah they they signify makes me feel lonely signifies where the sun is oh i didn't it's like that's when the sun's coming up and there's like noon and so i just thought this thing just came in for no this ethereal sound comes in for no reason yeah and it's sentimental for sure it's sentimental and strange it it really is um and and i i only scratch the surface of minecraft i've got to get deeper into it you ever get into world of warcraft i played it for a little while yeah i like it and i was like a level 12 dwarf and i made my own pair of goggles cool smith some goggles at the dwarf forge that's badass did you did you ever get into like starcraft two have you ever played that yeah play starcraft yeah back that's older right starcraft two the

new one oh then starcraft is there so well it's old yeah starcraft two i mean i get yeah there was a starcraft i thought it i thought it was three starcraft three am i slipping oh god no just two i don't think there's i don't think there's a maybe it is two i don't know i see two it's starcraft two and they've got a new coming out march 15th they've got a new expansion coming out which i'm quite excited about but do you play that game you know yeah yeah play yeah when was the last time you played when it first came out they only they released like the the taran the human yes that's the one that's a fun game that's my favorite game i love that game so you like how to play yeah do you like league of legends have you played that i've never played league of legends i heard

it's great i know people are addicted to that game it's similar to starcraft i think and some of the yeah the objectives is there an adventure time video game yeah there's one for handheld for 3ds and ds no console no no i'm like xbox version in the future yeah plans for that not yet can't talk about it oh hell yeah so you're playing that's badass cool that's cool i get it man that's badass i know it's gonna happen now adventure time with the oculus rift pop that fucking thing on and you're done yeah you're done because this is the thing man this is the thing that freaks me out about these reality simulation i'm sorry if i've said this on the show but you combine that oculus rift with a neurological implant did the moment you put the

oculus rift on or whatever the new futuristic version of it is in the video game you're taking it off that's the first thing your character does is pull a virtual reality thing off in whatever the virtual world is but the neurological implant makes you forget the world that you were just in which is reality and think that the video game world is the real world in other words like if i would give you this device and it would plug into your brainstem in the moment you put it on you would shift into another reality where you're pulling the thing off and you're like that was a weird fucking game i thought i was made a cartoon called adventure time are you a would you call you is that called a futurist people that trust technology to not be satanic you know i do not

say that technology is not satanic you know all the apocalypse scenario or the the religious apocalypse scenarios involve technology in some way like you know the the chip and stuff like and that's just happening the mark of the bees yeah yeah do you have that any of that fear let me tell you something brother yeah every team i i see those fucking quadricopters yeah those swarms of quadricopters doing their weird acrobatics like and that buzzing locus sound that they make is they like drift through space and do these crazy geometric movements that i think well that's the i'm looking at the devil like that's that's what satan looks like because it's so weirdly like there's no way to fight those things that scares me i haven't seen those quadricopters

have you seen those pin are they this is these four sort of circular blades is that what you're talking about maybe i'm making it up while you're just saying okay okay hold on quick pause we'll show that i'm going to show you these quadricopters okay hold on what do you guys think of the swarm uh i'm glad oh this idea is kind of silly but it's i'm glad the internet exists as sort of a more sort of a moral backbone for government because they can't just release i mean they can those can't those can be everywhere killing everybody all the time but there's going to be some camera footage of that and so you can't you know what i'm saying i'm like that that that's what it made me think of is like if these were around a little earlier

everyone would be dead wow yeah right yeah right they would just pick they're gonna pick the flesh look there here's here's what it looks like this is what war looks like in the future and the future war looks like some kind of cargo thing flies over a village opens up the bottom hole opens up you would look up from the village and see this cloud just a cloud it looks seem like a like bees like a swarm of bees and then you hear that because they make this terrible noise and then the fucking swarm would just descend pick the bones off of or the meat off of everybody i see piranhas like piranhas just yeah and then there's just dried skeletons there and the drones go back up into the ship and fly into the next village that's what war looks like in the future that's

going to be the last thing so many people here that's it those fucking things are who are those guys who are those guys testing that stuff that's the weird thing it's goddamn north central positronics i don't know who it is some weird you know north central positron oh you guys got to get into the dark tower series you ever read the dark tower series steven king's epic my dad loves dark tower but so good i haven't read it it's so good man played the board game dark tower oh my god get the fuck out of here i still remember that song from the dark tower no do you remember the song for you're talking about the one with the tower in the middle of it yeah i still i think that was it brigands remember that sound it makes yeah that's old school pen that's old school i've got in my

closet if you want to play man oh let's play man me and my dad and my brother used to sit and play that fucking game when we get so into it have you ever played it no like an old school it was really intense when it came out because it was like it's this electronic tower yeah it's got some kind of rotating random selection device as you roll that picks like i don't remember exactly how to play i don't remember exactly but there's you can you move around the circle and the tower turns and and makes lights that indicate whether you're fighting brigands or whether you're fighting something else or you know if you're in town what's is it based on the steven king it's not the steep it's just some other dark tower this is pre-dark tower okay the books the books are incredible

the game is also quite good yeah it's good holds up hold yeah i mean i yeah that's good to know that it holds up because i haven't yeah i haven't seen it in ages yeah let's play oh fuck you're cool man oculus rift oculus rift and the dark tower jesse makes the good you guys are the coolest people ever thanks minecraft right back at you man hey i don't think i feel weird about having guys that aren't that funny on your podcast oh are you kidding look who the host is i don't think i'm that funny yeah no you're super funny man i just feel like i've been on one other podcast before with other with comedians you know and it's uh it's intimidating because you're like well i'm not a comedian what do i do no that you know man i tried the whole comedy thing like

comedy podcasts are great and i've been on podcasts that are just like this is a comedy podcast and when you have a comedy podcast all of a sudden everyone's doing comedy all right and it's like it's fine but it's kind of like uh it gets old quick doesn't it it seems more fun to just like have conversations that evolve into something or maybe they don't and if they don't they don't there's no pressure because what is it really yeah i like this this is my style i think just talking talking stuff out talking about ideas yeah i like that oh yeah i was about to say you were just saying we're cool i think you're super cool man uh i've been listening to your podcast a lot it makes me feel really good and i've sold you but i haven't said it on your

podcast thank you sir thanks me too man i listen to your podcast all the time me and my brother both listen to it well geez you guys thank you very much thanks that's super that's super cool man i mean uh you guys are both oh sorry uh i want to tell you the story when i was crying uh behind behind the the what do you call it backstage at the the steve allen theater you were crying uh i was i was drunk i drank too much and i've performed a couple times uh and so i was drinking to get up on stage and i was dressed like santa claus because it was it was christmas time and i was going to get on stage and and draw uh the the the the bit was i was going to draw like elves with big boners or christmas trees with big boners and then

davie and randy the guys there davie johnson yes we're gonna just scold me and that was the whole thing and i was i was really really really drunk and then i decided to drink more uh so i was i was in an emotional state and then my buddy pat um he was a good friend of mine he came backstage uh because he was in town and he was just going to go back to new york he was leaving he came back to say goodbye to me and and this is an example of like what i what i'm like when i'm drunk too is like and i was like pat by pat i'm like we're gonna die and since when we're 60 man by pat and i just started busting up you know i was just busting up and uh when kate mccuchy was there and i was just bawling uh and pat left and and i've got like you know boogers and snot in my beers i'm

sharing those tears everywhere and uh kate just hugged me immediately she was really nice to me me and then i just started telling her about pat and then uh and then i was like i have to leave i have to leave uh and i was like yeah have you listened to dunkin trestle's podcast and then i just ran away i like ran i grabbed i had an easel and some newsprint that i was drawing on i scooped it up and just scampered off crying and dressed like santa claus yeah you were telling her that she had to listen to dunkin trestle's podcast right yeah i told her to listen to the one with your mom actually and that's the one i think about a lot uh which is an awesome awesome it's full of was a barn burner that one yeah that something happened there that was really intense

because it like uh it like captured weirdly a moment that uh you know i i hadn't had that talk with my mom yet and then it kind of captured it and it captured it in an honest way and that was a really intense that was a really intense man yeah you know that's a crazy moment to have with your parents uh i tried to interview my parents last time i went to home for christmas just to like put something some things into context about things i don't understand about them uh but it didn't how i felt like weird i the whole time i was thinking about doing it and then i didn't do it i still have to because they're more far out than i am my parents and uh i i don't understand some of the things that they they tell me i kind of want to figure some of that stuff out you got to do it

connect with your parents as much as you can you know it's a great thing to do don't i mean you it's very strange man parents are you know my mom's super sick now like i've got to like uh i actually thought i was going up there uh this weekend to say goodbye to her because she's uh very close to dying and and i um but then i've i had this little cold and she doesn't want me to come now because of the cold so maybe i'll come no it's very weird where did where does she live north carolina oh north carolina very strange thing isn't it this uh this problem whether it was like when your parents start blinking out it's really crazy isn't it i haven't had that experience yet but yeah i don't know i don't know what that's a totally different experience my father's passed

away uh but i didn't know him very well when uh i think like seven years ago or eight maybe now uh we were pretty distant totally distant uh yeah that's a weird story what's the story uh you don't have to talk about your one i don't know i can't i haven't maybe not i don't know maybe i won't yeah it's intense man these are the things that you know your first experience with masculine entities your dad your first experience of femininity is your mom and those are the two archetypes that like yeah i just got a big helping of femininity i didn't give them yeah me too i was i mean my my mom from you know yeah my folks got divorced so i got the femininity too yeah not so bad no i like it i got a balanced meal yeah masculine and feminine

yeah i guess yeah that's cool that's special these days a lot of people didn't get that you know most people got one or the other because everyone gets divorced yeah yeah i got my own share of the i mean my mom my mom did have a heavy impact on my how i am now she came out she moved away from japan because she was like a black sheep you know like really strong personality yeah i think in that culture of her era to be a woman and move to america uh in japanese culture you have to be like sort of like a live wire person like sort of you know i mean otherwise you would just stay in your town and marry someone be you know that's a very that generation i think it's changed now but of that time period is pretty radical to move away to another country and she moved to israel and she

was living on a kaboots and stuff and she was like trying to find god and all this so she you know did all this stuff and then came to america a total wild wild minded super idealistic uh person and so that uh but that that that combativeness is what i experienced she blasted out a cool kid yeah yeah no i love my mom she's great you know but she has that fire that fiery thing that i reacted to growing up i became different from that or purposely be was different from my mom right yeah my mom super powerful yeah you know and she took care you know three boys by herself uh and so i became maybe more uh laid back and yeah what's the opposite of powerful you don't seem the opposite of powerful you seem quite powerful you don't strike me as

someone who's i like to harness it but it doesn't come naturally i don't think i think if if anything it causes like cross wires in my mind to like harness the power to take on the power well i mean because you do out you're you're a boss yeah like you run a business you're you're in charge of a whole yeah huge business yeah yeah so yeah that must that must be intense if yeah super messes me up like my brain yeah uh yeah i think you get bummed out every time you you would tell me you would get bummed out every time you had to like tell us to change something because i don't it's horrible to make to cause misery in any way even the slightest way to to to be a person i like i have to create misery do you yell at people i don't know maybe i sort of i raised my voice the other

day when we were talking about we got in a fight what was the fight about uh this character named ranicorn yeah jake and ranicorn jake uh do you know jake or jake is like the dog yeah and there was wars between the dogs and ranicorns right yeah there was like a terrible war war right um i was trying to play a situation scenario a certain way um between in the relationship and pens really protective and i got really protective and upset and loud about their favorite lady ranicorn and jake the dog's relationship and how how they're they're they're really healthy i think their relationship right but i was saying that you can't i've been i've been thinking about this ever since we had this conversation and i'm still gonna change it the way you want it but i was thinking to myself

like how do you prove a thing in fiction or whatever in life how do you prove a thing is uh healthy if you don't challenge it should we provide some context to this this isn't boring no i think well i think i know i know a lot of people on the message board are into adventures a lot of people probably know this but yeah maybe just give some if someone's listening to this and they haven't uh can we provide it without revealing without spoilers that's spoiling it i don't know i think you're spoilers and then people can skip ahead if they don't want the spoiler look let's let's tell you know zoom out of adventure time for a moment though and i think what you're talking about is like the what a lot of people who are into non-monogamy which i'm not and lately i know what you're saying

jessie because i feel like a goddamn pervert because i only want to be with one person like i was so many people are like i get out there and fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you gotta fuck until you gotta fuck all the time you're fucking all the fuck all these different girls and i don't like that like my fetish i feel like i have this fetish where i like to be with one girl who i care for and it makes now these days that makes you feel like you like to fucking take goddamn sprays a piss in your mouth makes you feel like a damn perv if you just want to be with one person you're supposed to be out there fist in america yeah that makes me feel like a perv but what i've been what i've been doing for three years is like humping just humping just you're rolling through the

life humping and rolling through life humping sucks i hate it yeah it sucks i hate now fuck the thing that you're talking about though is like if you do want to be non-monogamous the one thing that like uh they say is honesty is the most important part of that or it's like you're if you're going to be non-monogamous don't sneak around the whole point of the thing is like yes we're going to be with other people we like hanging out with each other the most but we're going to be with other people and i'm going to tell you when that's happening and then if you achieve that level of honesty then apparently that's how non-monogamous relationships work but the moment a non-monogamous or monogamous relationship you add that goddamn forbidden element where

somebody's sneaking around and you know looking then yeah a demon comes into the garden you know that's the snake in the fucking garden it fucks everything up man yes i look at porn yes i play video games yes i play video games i like to look at porn yes i go into a hole eat pizza play minecraft yes are you saying that that's like cheating on your girlfriend i'm saying it's all part of the same thing the moment that you get the feeling like ah shit now i'm not going to be able to eat pizza in the hole because she's around now you fucked yourself you know what i mean you've created this wall around the pizza have you ever had a girlfriend catch you jerking off catch you catch me jerking off yeah uh no i did i got caught once what happened she cried

see that's what i'm saying she cried she you gotta find better ladies it's fucking terrible one of the worst moments did you used to date your mom just imagining your your expression turning around like a door creak because i tried to the weeping the weeping like oh god what was she why was she weeping because i had tried i had tried to i wanted to have sex earlier and then she was being distant this is like at the lowest point of our relationship here we go skip ahead she was being this hour fifty she was being distant and i was like i'm gonna go jerk off fuck this and i went into my room and because i was so worked up i can't remember we weren't having sex like once every two weeks or something like that so i could never predict and she walked in she walked in like

trying to get like a book or something like that and i was like oh fuck and then she was like what's going on and then uh she was like i thought we were gonna this is a whole thing this is like a therapy it was terrible i you know it it was i don't know what i'm trying to prove by talking about this actually well let me try to say what we're talking about the like the in relationships the moment that you have this forbidden thing that you're i think if a girl catches you jerking off it should be cool yeah yeah it should transition into sex well i mean ideally or you know like yeah you shouldn't feel ashamed of it yeah they shouldn't make you feel ashamed because then you're in this like creepy like then now you're in a whenever it gets to the place

where it gets creepy is where someone is trying to control someone else's sex drive yeah or someone's trying to say oh you can't have sex or you are this i'm in control of your orgasms you can't have an orgasm cop yeah orgasm cop yeah you can't have that and then you need to be in a relationship where you're completely open to the fact that yes that we but i'm going to masturbate sometimes yeah sometimes we're out of sync but you don't want that to be like if that's forbidden then then it's then it starts festering you know yeah i think in theory she was cool i mean obviously she knew i looked at porn and masturbated in theory she was cool with it but i think when you're confronted with that moment where it's like he decided to do this instead of try to hook up with me

then it gets i don't know gets hairy it can get weird i would you know i this this uh there was a as i was there's this girl i really like and like we took out we were dating for a while and like uh or i mean dating in the sense that we would like go out and then she would come back here and sometimes we would drink and like a couple of times she spent the night here and there's two beds here and i would sleep in the other bed and i let her sleep in in my in my bedroom because it felt you know like uh it wasn't the place where we could sleep together yet and the first time she went into my bedroom because i just wasn't really thinking i didn't think that that was going to happen and on my bed is lotion and an ipad like laying next to each other side by side

you got to put that shit in the bathroom i didn't i didn't think about it and she's like yeah she laughed it was like oh lotion and an ipad huh but she thought it was funny yeah in other words it wasn't like ew you've been jerking off it was just more like haha look what you did dummy you left out your jerk jerking implements and it wasn't then she started we she starts weeping well you guys want to see the idea of weeping there was a lot built up to that moment like there was some other shit well what were you jerking off to that might explain why she was weeping i don't think she saw it was like click you know click it off my mom caught me did your mom ever catch you my mom caught me one time yeah your mom caught you that was also a moment that's you know i think that

for a parent not funny what did your mom's what did your mom say that was when the internet was slow too so i couldn't click it off it was like 28k modems i think she was like uh i think she was like okay okay okay i think that's all she's close the door bam permanent memory yeah uh jeez burnt in forever i my dad used to keep these i mean this is way back in the day before the internet but my dad used to have these fucking books called beeline books you ever remember beeline books you guys ever know what is that i think it was beeline it was a series of porn books so it was like but you used to read i would read porn before the internet so you read sexy fiction yeah like erotic fiction that's just like fucking weird my dad i would always find my dad's like

porn books and that's what he caught i'm gonna can remember laying in bed reading some crazy fucking like crazy crazy step it was like about a brother and a stepsister and just like just just really fucking heavy duty bondage i'm reading that shit in bed and i'm jerking off as a kid my dad walked in and i like whipped to the side and threw the book into the wall just making it more obvious and i've thrown a porn book into the wall but he just laughed he thought i was stupid funny yeah i used to read those porn penthouse letters remember the best yeah and the collections of them the lies the lies just lying lying dudes at their house right yeah you know it wasn't even a guy you know you know they didn't really get those letters it was

just someone on staff who like came up with these bullshit fantasies that's all right as long as it gets your mind going that shit never happens yeah when i was a kid i thought that that's like one of the things you look forward to when you're growing up as a lady at the fucking car wash is going to suck you off if you smile at her the right way i hooked up with a girl on a train once that was sort of like a penthouse letter no shit what happened that was the first girl i ever kissed was a girl stranger on a train and uh she tried to have sex with me but i was too scared you didn't have said i thought you did i thought you said you had sex with her on a train no i sucked i like i kissed her titties and i was a virgin and uh she like came on to me so hard

on this train that you put lipstick on first no but that's what broke the ice for me with girls was meeting this girl on a train and for a while my friend convinced me that it was a conspiracy and she was planted there to like break my uh losing streak a honeypot yeah you've got a lot of stories where your friends convince you of things right where that was part of that was a part of an elaborate year-long lie was this girl was a plant who put her there this like this uh cabal of satanic sainess really it was a year-long lie where i started believing in in uh in demons and uh yeah so wait you believed that a cabal of satanist put a girl on the plane yeah train and she let you suck her tits so that i kind of satanic conspiracy so that i could be able to

have sex with girls yeah so i love that meeting where they're sitting around before when they're planning the whole thing out we've got to get jesse lady yeah there's a boy we'll be on a train next i was 23 father i was 23 this is a can of worms man you can delve deep into this oh it was a huge lie i don't know it lasted a year and i legitimately thought the demons were following me and i had to wage war on demons this is a fascinating story it's a that because i was just talking about it yesterday with a friend this is the hell trip yeah there's variations of the hell trip but it's usually for me it's like if i get too stoned sometimes i'll look at my friends and think what if they're fucking demons what if everyone's a demon and like part of hell is like

they just pretend to be your friends but they're really just here to torment you as you like and it's a hell trip it's a quite common it's like jacob's ladder that's what it's all about is you're in your you're in this lower dimension i definitely feel like some people are legitimately demons it's like hard not to believe that sometimes about some people but yes for sure i think some people do have demons in their lives for sure sometimes you will have someone in your life that is a demon who is always like fucking with your own sometimes they're fucking related to i try to tell that to people people you know sometimes i turn into like advice man and then people you know people telling me their problems and stuff and that that comes up a lot where it's

like dependency on someone that's sucking your life out you know and that you feel responsible for making them happy when they're trying to destroy you yeah yeah you feed yourself to them yeah yeah feeding you're like you're like a feeder mice you just let them suck your life energy man you guys it's almost two hours oh this thing could go on forever you guys are so fucking cool man i hope you'll come back on again yeah i think yeah it was a lot of fun man and pin are you on twitter yeah boy boyna the bear there you guys follow pin and award on on twitter obviously watch adventure time i'll have links anything else you want to plug or say or uh thomas herrick dot com jesse moinehan dot com

yeah jesse you on twitter yeah i am jesse moinehan at twitter what at jesse moinehan yeah yeah it's just my name yeah informing is it on your website yeah that's jesse moinehan dot com i've been working on that for like four years that's a deep deep deep vortex man that is such a great comic thanks guys go check that out and order the hard copy because that's what i'm going to do man i was going to bring you one but i was i was at a coffee shop when pen called me to come over here so uh well maybe next time yeah maybe when we all play dark tower next time or you finally get to smack on that oculus rift yeah yeah um okay great thanks you guys thanks very much thanks man i'll see you again okay thanks for listening everybody if you enjoyed this episode

and if you enjoy the dug a dressel family our podcast why not be a chap and go to itunes and give it a high rating or leave a little comment now here's an awesome song from uh performed by tia blake it's called folk songs and ballads the song is plastic jesus and it was made famous and one of my favorite movies coolhand luke so check out this album tia blake folk songs and ballads available in itunes the song is plastic jesus see you guys next time howdy christ night up there green and sitting on dashboard of my car green white pink or yellow i don't care because he's my fella sitting on dashboard of my car so

i don't care if it rains or freezes long as i got the plastic jesus sitting on dashboard of my car going on it ain't scary because i got the virgin Mary sitting on dashboard of my car i'm in the back seat sitting in jesus up there grinning sitting on dashboard of my car green white pink or yellow i don't care because he's my fella sitting on dashboard of my car you