Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Raghu Markus

Episode Date: January 6, 2018

Raghu Markus returns and we discuss tantra, meditation, and what it means to be in the present moment

Hello friends, it is I Dunkin Trussell and you are listening to the Dunkin Trussell family hour podcast and this is the 108th episode of this podcast and the number 108 is a transcendent number 8 plus 1 is 9 9 represents 3 3's 3 represents the Trinity father son Holy Ghost Brahman Vishnu Shiva the thesis the antithesis and the synthesis Mother father child it goes on and on and on the triangle the connections in the Sri Yantra Mandala The golden mean it represents so many things many of which I don't understand at all including the rasa lila rasa means juice and

lila means dance and the rasa lila refers to in Vaisnaiva mythology this sacred night where Krishna on In in the forests of in Vrindavan was so overcome by the beauty of nature that he began to play his flute and this mystical sound of God playing his flute out in the forest caused all the gopy girls to leave whatever it was they were doing to go dance with Krishna and Krishna split himself up into 108 parts so that he could individually make love with each of those sweet cowhergows And that's a very deep thing on the surface. It sounds like it already is pretty deep It sounds like a psychedelic space orgy, but the thing that it's pointing to at least in my

mind is the idea that you can have a direct communication with nature the supreme intelligence or if you want to be lazy God and That's that's a beautiful story. There's 108 beads on Many mallas that people chant on including the mallas that the Hare Krishna's chant on There's actually 109 beads, but the 109th bead, which is sort of at the center of the mala is Depending on what religion you're in is either the guru bead or the Krishna bead and it's the bead that when you reach that bead You stop chanting and think of your guru or of God and then

Go in the opposite direction and that represents the cycles of time the seasons and so many other incredible things You could just get lost in it. You can get lost in symbols because they're so powerful and beautiful and So liberating if you use them in the right way, but the weird thing about symbols is they can also Imprison you that's what's fascinating is that symbols can simultaneously be a lock and a key For example, take the word love the word love is a symbol that points in the direction of this incredible Feeling of pure novelty and freedom and autonomy It's that feeling that happens when you realize that you are in a brand new universe It's being born again when you're falling in love and you start feeling that first sweet

Fluttering of the heart and you look around in this boring old dumb world that you are shuffling through is suddenly glowing with light and There's you notice butterflies and flowers and things you never noticed before you notice how Gigantic the sky is and suddenly you start hearing birds again and every time you hear the birds you think of whoever you're falling in love with There's every Stupid love song on the radio that you've heard a million times through the course of whatever dark depression or whatever Empty boring lonely moments proceeded you meeting your sweet darling lover Suddenly those songs that were so stale and boring and embarrassing are filled with meaning you can listen to the cheesiest

Love song ever you can listen to Beyonce singing her newest hit Drunken in love or whatever that song is and if you listen to that and you're not in love It's very similar to listening to house music when you haven't taken a dose of LSD or ecstasy. It's just like oh god. This sounds like Pac-Man vomiting I don't want to listen to this get me out of here. Why do they have glow sticks? Why are they rubbing vixx vapor rub on their neck? I don't understand any of it But if you take ecstasy somehow it suddenly all makes sense suddenly the glow sticks make sense Suddenly you understand why all the various components that are happening at whatever rave you're at are there and you understand

Well, that's what love is like love is the ecstasy that makes the music of this reality sound beautiful and The Rosalila is about music. It's the flute. It's the it's the sound of Krishna's flute and to me that Sound is what comes through the teachings of Ram Dass or Jack cornfield or any of the crazy teachers Who who who are always? drawing you out of the musty old Hut composed of boring symbols that you've gotten stuck inside up and we all get stuck inside Those musty boring huts. They're the people who are always luring you out and

That's what the Rosalila is about. I guess it's about listening for the sound of Krishna's flute or listening For the sound that is underneath everything That's always inviting you to climb out of the old Stagnant symbol structures that you've gotten trapped inside of I was just I just had definitely the greatest birthday of my life and Was driving back from this vineyard that I was hanging out at with my girlfriend and we're on the 101 and it is a wonderful day We've just had some delicious wine The day before was bicycle day

Which as many of you know is the celebration of the first intentional ingestion of LSD by a human being on planet Earth it was an incredible day and So we're listening to Jack cornfield. He's this Buddhist teacher that I really like and He's been on this podcast actually we're listening to him one of his audible audio books and it's great And I'm really connecting with a lot of what he's saying and the 101 even though it's Slammed with traffic. It doesn't seem bad to me because I'm it's that's how great my day is that the 101 doesn't even seem bad Even though it's just Congested with traffic all the cars look beautiful

Everything looks incredible. We're listening to Jack cornfield and my girlfriend suggests that we Go swimming in the ocean that we're driving next to Now my the first thought that I have when she says this is no, I'm listening. I'm listening to someone talk about Buddhism right now. I don't swim in the cold-ass ocean and Then I realize oh god. I'm basically inside a Jack cornfield story right now Because rather than go and experience life rather than go and dive into the ocean of experience I would rather listen to someone

Inviting you to go dive into the ocean of experience and that's the thing you can get caught up all these teachers They're telling you stop the car and jump in the ocean They're all asking you turn off the radio. Don't let you don't have to keep listening to us Dive into the ocean of love jump out of your comfort zone and into This ocean of love that's around you at all times all you've got to do is abandon those crusty Stinky symbols that you've gotten stuck in just like some smelly old sock You've been wearing for a few days pull off the sock and jump in the ocean and so That's what we did. We pulled over. I found we found a

Nearly empty beach and I went Diving into the cold water with my 40 year old body And I felt like I was kissing God on the mouth. It was Amazing I had done something I normally never would have done and I think that's I'm not gonna keep saying this But then that's what the Rossell wheel is about It's about not just hearing the flute But following in the direction of where the flute is coming from Abandon the old systems out with the old in with the new that's what Easter is about

Happy Easter all of you happy Resurrection day. I hope that you guys find a way over the next few weeks to be rejuvenated and reborn and can shake off whatever stupid stinky crusty Symbols are holding you into the smelly hut of your life When just write down this tiny little path is a blue-skinned Cowherd boy who wants to make sweet love with you all night long This is a great podcast Ragu Marcus is joining us today, but first some quick business I'm gonna read a news story to you if there's kids in the room. I suggest that you have them leave

This is a very sad and tragic story Shortly after midnight around the time that he left his work George Winston entered the basement apartment of 18 year old Karen Sparks He had been designing a website for and she had paid him way too much money and he was coming to collect the bill But something happened Something broke inside of his brain and he bludgeoned the sleeping woman with a metal rod from her bed frame Smashing her with a computer that he had used to design her blog and then left with her face in his pocket Leaving behind a faceless corpse to be found by the police

He had painted html all over the wall of her apartment the html was code for a poorly designed website the website itself was a website with a malformed urls and a Shopping cart that did not work The death of Anne-Marie Winston-Williams is A death that did not have to happen if Anne-Marie Winston-Williams had only gone to squarespace

Com instead of hiring a web designer off of Craigslist Today in the United States Just under heart attacks the second leading cause of death is being bludgeoned to death by a Dissatisfied web designer who has not been paid the inordinate amount of money that he demanded to create the website He was not equipped to build because he was not a good web designer Don't let this happen to you guys I don't mean to bring Nancy Grace level darkness into this podcast, but it's I feel like I should warn you There is a darkness at the edge of town and that darkness weighs

290 pounds has pizza all over his shirt and cannot design another website without plunging his fingers into your eyeballs and ripping out your eyeballs and filling your eye sockets with Keyboard cleaner that's how you do is that how you want to die? Is that how you want to die you want your last moments to be you waking up to the slobbering sound of a web designer climbing through your window his breathlessness because he had to go up a flight of steps the strange Stink emanating from his unwashed underarms the smell combining with the doctor pepper

Burps coming out of his mouth as he plods towards your bed to bludgeon you to death with a very keyboard He used to create your flower delivery website that never even worked That can happen Go to Squarespace comm if you're thinking about getting a website built and you don't want to risk being murdered now I'm not saying there's not great web designers out there. I know they're great web designers out there I use one his name Steve. He's amazing. I'm so lucky to have found him It's like finding a unicorn in a forest filled with rapists Yes, I said it. It's true

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So go to squarespace.com Sign up Put my name in and you will get 10% off That's Duncan when you sign up put my name in as your code word you will get 10 percent off Trust me guys The last thing you want to have happen to you is to be dragged out of your house by a slobbering maniacal disgruntled hacky web designer

Taken to his awful house dragged into the basement and then have HTML carved into your back for the next two years as Nancy Grace talks about how you vanished leaving behind Only a shitty blog with a shopping cart that didn't work You don't want that to happen. You don't want to join the legions of Murdered do you know how many people disappear a day in the United States a? Lot and that number equals the number of shitty websites that are created a day you do the math Go to squarespace.com start a great website today. Put my name in Duncan 10% off We're also brought to you by Amazon

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Not 27th, which I've been saying god damn it in earlier podcasts May 24th We will be doing a live Duncan trustle family hour podcast And I don't know who all the guests are gonna be but I do know that email Amos from the Holy Sons is gonna be there and he's gonna play some music up front and Be one of the guests and there's gonna be lots more happening than that If you go to Duncan trustle.com there is a ticket link there I highly recommend getting tickets because this thing is definitely gonna sell out so get tickets now Don't put it off buy tickets now go to Duncan trustle.com the link is there in the forum

And I've got a tour coming up which is gonna be happening in August. I'm gonna be traveling all over the South I'm gonna be in Asheville Durham a few other places. That's gonna be up on the website soon Okay, let's get this podcast going Today's guest is a one of the hosts of the mind-rolling podcast He hosts that along with a great David Silver you can go to mind rolling podcast calm They've got incredible episodes the most recent one is with Krishnadas Who is this incredible curtain Walla who plays beautiful music and I got to listen to him The last time I was at a Ram Dass retreat because he played every night

But there's 64 episodes of this thing up now and their life changers all of them are incredible he's also the director of the love server member foundation and that's Ram Dass's foundation and he Got to hang out with Maharajee neem. Kali Baba in India a few decades ago. So that's an incredible thing by itself, I'm really lucky to have him as a friend and a teacher and Would really appreciate it if you guys would check out the mind rolling podcast because it's amazing It's a really really good podcast and now there's 64 episodes of it

All right, open your third eyes spread out your arms Climb out of that stinky hut and let's go make out with Krishna and Raghu Marcus Or at least Have a picnic. We don't have to we don't have to make out And One two three four five six seven eight nine ten One two three four five. Hold on one second. Raghu Marcus. Thank you so much for taking the time You are quite welcome. I'm always glad to be here, but it's

Especially precious that you're giving me an hour of of your time when you're in Hawaii at the spring retreat I I don't know what I keep thinking to myself. Why didn't I come this year? I should have come and you've been calling me and you start off every conversation by it's Describing in detail the smell of the flowers The wind blowing through Lumeria, which is this incredibly beautiful I don't know. What would you call that a spiritual center? What is that place?

Just a retreat center. It's just It's done by an artist from Los Angeles somebody who he wrote a book called sacred spaces actually and Zorn is his name and it is impeccably done Inside outside with plan layout the kind of foliage and and plants and trees and It's it's on a hillside overlooking the ocean. It's it's just a sacred spot. It's really amazing I'm going anyhow poor thing. You're in LA Well, yeah, it's not like I'm in hell or anything like that

It's not like you know what you could be in Montreal Where I'm from because on Tuesday They're supposed to get something like two feet of snow. Oh Yeah, wow. Yeah, I you're right. I shouldn't good I'm here, but I remember that feeling when you get off the plane in Hawaii is Unlike anything when you feel the energy coming out of the ground there There's some extra Prana or some extra juice coming out of that place and then you combine it with those retreats and it's just It's it's it's it's unforgettable. I um, I don't know. I feel really anyway

I'm not gonna keep saying I feel dumb for not going there, but how's it going? What what's the theme of the retreat this time? So the theme of the retreat is from Sharon Salzburg her idea was to call it compassion and adversity Since we all have adversity and we certainly need to cultivate compassion to get through that that seemed right so Yeah, we're right in the middle of all that and in the last set and we have Jai Utah here as well

You know, John. Yes. Well, I mean, I know the music Yeah, well, he by the way, he has a new record out and you should tell your listeners about it It's called return or I will return to Shiva station Jai Utah Uttal and it is an Acoustic Reinvention of an album he did actually for my label at the time Tryloka in like 15 years ago or something or more

So it is a momentous moment sort of to kind of go full circle with him. He is a Student of Ali Akbar Khan one of the greatest musicians in the world so if you want to hear something really solid and totally absolutely connect you to the Real spirit and he's got real spirit and so Jai Utah there that and go to go to Duncan's Amazon portal and buy it Yeah, please Okay, that's the ad for the day. Okay, great What's

Good, I Wanted to I want to okay. I want to just got to read this thing to you. Okay. Okay It's about compact. You think people would be interested. It's it's not too too long. Yeah, let's hear. I want to hear it Yeah, okay And then I'll tell you all about the retreat perfect Compassion involves more than simply knowing about a different situation Even witnessing pain directly does not necessarily prompt a reaction of compassion And I'll tell you who's writing this after I read it

I observed this for myself once while watching a doc in which animals were being hung upside down to be slaughtered as Their throats were cut blood spurted out in their legs jerked in terror and pain He was extremely hard to watch unbearable really But as the butchers butchers sawed through the animals next to Deprive them of life the men were laughing and joking They could obviously see the animals painful movements and hear their cries the suffering was visible and audible But they did not seem to recognize that these were signs of terrible pain

And even if the butchers did see that they were inflicting pain the animals suffering didn't amount to anything for them They treated it as if they were watching a show. In fact, some people even kill animals as a form of recreation Hunting is considered a sport in some cultures, isn't it? Some people seem to believe it is courageous to kill animals Unfortunately, nowadays we have developed the wrong kind of fearlessness Fearlessness and harming others at some point this courage quote-unquote in harming others is bound to turn on us As people become habituated to taking the life of animals with no thought for the pain They are causing in the end it becomes easy to harm and kill humans Even the pain of our fellow human beings can cease to catch our attention

The real courage that comes from compassion is very far from this When compassionate compassion is present We do not overlook others pain Rather, there is a sense of urgency to end that pain as if a fire had just been lit underneath you When you have such compassion as soon as you see suffering you wish to jump up and act to end it at once You have no fear and no hesitation in taking on the suffering of other people Animals and even the planet itself. This is what I would call the right kind of fearlessness This is the fearlessness of true heroes

Can you take a wild guess as to who would write such a thing? I'm gonna say George W. Bush Is that from his autobiography is that the autobiography of George W. Bush Or is that rums it's rumsfeld isn't it? Yeah This is written by the 17th Carmafa, so you better take that all back This is like the the who's the 17th Carmafa. Can you can you see what is Carmafa mean or third in line? They say Not in line. That's not the proper thing the third most important llama in Tibet

Number one is the Dalai Lama number two is the Panchen Lama who is was kidnapped by the Chinese Okay, and it's being held in prison in China and number three is Carmafa and this Carmafa Is about 30 years old and the his predecessor So many of us have met both the 16th and the 17th Westerns The 16th was is exactly the same like Nincoroli bottom. That's you know a fully omniscient being and And so I met him and then I met the 17th

Who's this 30 year old young guy and when I met him? You know I you hear all this bullshit about oh, yeah total coups and you know They transfer something goes transferred to their body reincarnated You know and and they you know the kid finds the right objects when they said to him that were the objects of his predecessor People oracles have dreams. I mean it's the whole nine yards and but you just read this, you know, you don't If it's just head stuff until you actually meet this guy, which I did at the 17 car map in a hotel room in in Washington when the Dalai Lama was there, there's a couple years ago and

He at the end and we just bantered around in this hotel room about worldly stuff. There was no to nothing You know, we're having fun. He's a young, you know, he's man. He's and he's absolutely a beautiful young man Inside now anyhow, he put the this, you know, they put a it's called a cut a scarf around you as an honor at the end Yes, and he said goodbye and he clasped my hands for two hours I first of all, I understood the whole Succession the reincarnation the holy shit. This is really, you know, it's experiential. This is real what these people do This is that's a shocking moment. Isn't it when you realize that it's real that's

That's a real because that I can remember when I started realizing that that was from hanging out with you guys And that's a really intense moment when It's a little trans transporting moment for sure It really is because it's so funny how the mind when you hear these stories you every single story that you hear My mind tends to reduce it to Western

The way the west likes to dilute stuff, you know, for example the west Loves to call you know healing the placebo effect and And when you hear well the placebo effect and then right away you think well, that means it's not real There's a there's a great article. I just read actually about the placebo effect in this case where a man Came to the hospital with all these tumors and they told him that he was gonna die

and he Had heard that there was some sort of weird serum made from horse blood It was some strange thing and he demanded that he got it to be injected with this stuff and the doctor Realizing this man only had maybe a month to live thought why not? Let's inject him with it if he wants it it won't hurt him And so they he injected the man with this stuff and they say this is a medical report I'll find the article and put a link on the On this on my website, but the tumors they say melted away

Over the course of a couple of days the tumors just melted away and then he read that This horse serum he finally found something that shows that this was actually bullshit and didn't work at all and the tumors came back So this is one of the many cases of um people, you know that shows how very powerful this stuff is and Anyway, I think I've gotten a little bit off track because I want to talk to you More about compassion, which is oh wait a minute. What about this incredible article he wrote? I mean He's not like writing about the teachings of the bardos He's writing about like what's right in front of us and what's going on in this planet right now

and you know This this doc are obviously set him off And he uh, you know, so he uh, you know, he wrote this thing I found it because of this whole thing being about compassion And you know, he really spells it out here. I mean, you know, it's like I you know We do so many things that are screwed up But eating meat do you consider eating meat to be a violent act? You know what?

I've been I mean, I don't eat red meat, but I eat You know, I have eaten foul and I eat fish, right? I mean, I stopped eating falcons. I saw something in India. It was so horrible I couldn't eat a piece of chicken for you know, 10 years But this is what did you see? This is like you're you know Because we're in the situation we're in The extreme measures you got to take sometimes to

Have the correct effect To be able to lift us up rather than pull us down. That's what he's talking about here And that's the kind of fearlessness that really you know, it's not Just this alone is a not aside from the cruelty the way they raise livestock and everything, you know Aside from the you know, it's really bad for your health You know eating, you know, oh, well, let's go eat free range. You know, okay, you know, I hear all that But uh, this is about fearlessness and extreme measures and I can't believe that a young Tibetan Monk who's a reincarnation of this amazing being is doing this. So that's why I was blown away by it

Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's it is very insightful when I hear it though I have some things come to mind like for example when he's talking about hunting um hunting The killing an animal in the wild Is if they're if you're going to put a hierarchy or a gradient of compassion when it comes to Slaughtering animals Killing an animal in the wild is the most compassionate way to get meat

um The animals lived a completely free life Usually depending on the skill of the hunter. It doesn't even know what's happened. It's just gone This is again, I'm going to take it back to we are in certain times Very few. I mean, there are definitely people who Survive off of hunting and he ain't talking about those people He's not talking about the reality of hunting for food and eating that food and sustaining yourself He's talking about maniacs. Okay who go out there for sport

Okay, you know most hunters that I know I I'm not a hunter I eat meat. I feel guilty about it. If I think about it too much I Imagine that I I should have a vegetarian diet But most hunters that I know are far more in tune with The earth and with the the food that they're eating than people who eat cheeseburgers

I've never met a like, you know, my dad hunts Joe Rogan hunts and these people they have a direct contact with the thing that they're killing and then they take the meat and they Prepare it and cook it and give it to their families and Okay, well, we're not let's I'm trying to get to the big we're not talking about people like that for sure people who are actually acting in the

In the manner of how the american indians acted, right? That is not who he's talking about. He's talking about ignorance Right. He's talking about being fearless And doing things that would help create an antidote to the ignorance, right? Which means curbing your own something at times. That's what he's talking about. Yes. Yeah. Yeah that that Right. I know we're getting I'm getting a little off track. I just it's I only just because it's you know, you want to take the It's a good point. It's a good point. There are people who are doing it fully in the in the spirit of That the native americans held for the sanctity of the of

You know of the lives that they were Taking and so on and so forth and and it was in the full cycle of life and you know, I mean You you tell me that these people are in that kind of a place and you know, I believe you Well, they're I'm not saying that they're they're they're reincarnated Tibetan monks, you know, but but yeah, but I you know, I think the deeper level here is that kind of numbness that overcomes a person And that allows for all kinds of behavior, you know a kind of like, you know, for example, we walk, you know, you you walk

through a yard And you're just walking through grass like in lumaria. You go walking through grass and If you could zoom into that grass, I'm sure that you would see all kinds of bugs Getting crushed, you know, there's a constant flow of Death happening around us at all times and you can only be aware of a certain amount of the violence that you're Putting out into the world, you know, but eventually some people are Completely unaware of anything that they do. It's numbness. Numbness seems to be the mother of violence

That's exactly what he's addressing and you're hitting it right on the head And that's that's really what's being talked about and so at this retreat We're talking about what's the first thing, you know, that's Nothing can happen around this word compassion Unless you start having some for yourself, you know The stuff that we do the judging and, you know, the self-worth issues and You know, or the opposite, you know of

Being completely caught in your role ego, whatever it is. They own the first Leverage, right the first Transformation Can only take place In reality, I mean, you know, you can do yoga and meditate and all that shit None of it's going to matter unless you can actually Have compassion for your bullshit for you, you know, as I did this podcast with Alan Watts

I think I said it to you because I said this thing is unbelievable. We found Alan Watts telling talking about Jung and Jung's relationship with With that rascal part of him and how he had accepted that and without doing that You know, there's no way that he could help anybody He couldn't treat anybody unless he had that first basic thing of accepting You know the shadow stuff as you know, as you know with Jung But then the the anecdote was antique dope

T. Doe was uh That he's he said I just started to be kinder to the bullshit that was in my head Let me ask you compassion when when is compassion when does compassion for the self become enabling laziness like real-world example I want to go to the gym today. I just want to go jogging. It makes me feel good but if I

If I'm come what what if I don't go to the gym today Am I supposed to be compassionate to the part of myself that didn't go and exercise Or is it is there ever a time where there's usefulness and guilt where there's some sort of Merit to looking at your day and thinking, you know, I didn't really accomplish what I wanted to accomplish today That does not make me feel good That makes me feel like I need to tighten up and try harder and that creates this guilty feeling Is there a place for guilt in the spiritual path in this practice?

No, not guilt No, it's just that's just mind. It has nothing. It's guilt is no different than I got to take a shit. It's just another thought or emotion It means absolutely nothing and the point is that's cool the compassion isn't to I fucked my day up or not the compassion is Well, that's cool. I'm still thinking that it matters if I went to the gym or not That's cool or you know, I want to kill that guy I want to I have somebody I'm really am angry at by the way And uh, I'm gonna admit it on your show There's a lady I have a dog my wife brought the dog back from India from

My guru's ashram in the foothills of the Himalayas Okay, kenchi And it's and kenchi is the name of the dog brought she brought saved it on the streets It was a street dog puppy three weeks old So she got it back to figure must be a good reason why this dog's coming back anyhow But the dog has in its genes it likes to go around anywhere So we let it out and she goes around and there's one neighbor across the woods insist on calling the cops And they're saying okay in five if you if you get five tickets we can take the dog and we're gonna kill it

You lived in this place, uh, you know boy the south is harsh 12 years a slave freaked me out by the way Um anyhow, so this woman I I have really really Uh terrible terrible thoughts and emotions about this woman that I cannot do anything about despite my 45 years of You know working on this. See that's that's real You know, I don't really have that much guilt about it. I'm just like Wow, I gotta turn this around or my dog won't be able to go out. How do I turn it around? And I've got to turn around inside me first and that's really what it's all about

Right and that's compassion for the self Yeah, yeah, and if you can't do that then okay, you're okay You're just another human You know screwy Screw up no problem. But you've you you know, it's it's the impatience that comes, you know, it's it's this You know all those feelings are you know guilt anger Uh a sense of um You know not not working hard enough or accomplishing enough or all these things they they have some real serious emotional

Undertones that go along with them. They're heavy. It's a heavy place to be and and you just want it to stop You know, you you I when I'm feeling those things when I'm feeling Any kind of the the the negative emotions, you know Jack cornfield says bow to them as they come to you and but I bow to them and you know It's like shitting like you said it's like I can bat if I'm constipated I can bow to the constipation But it's not gonna change the fact that I need to take a shit You know what I mean? Like I it's like there's action too, right?

Or I do like how how how when does bowing to these things become? a form of pacifism When there needs to be direct action that should be taken the warrior's way all that stuff You're getting that one wrong That bowing is not a passive act And the it absolutely not it's an act of like an act of prayer it's an act of

It's it's intention To Surrender Through the one inside yourself as rhombus would say It's that intention And that can't happen in none of this can you know this compassion Thing nothing can happen unless you do the first very first thing and you already know this And you know not to sound pedantic, but we all have to get control over our minds or ain't nothing going to be

Effected which is what you're saying, you know you try and do this shit, but if you do not have if you are not Having intention like we just talked about in the act as an act of You know connecting to the one if you don't have you know, you need that intention But at the same time you need to have some sitting meditation Mindfulness practice, you know the big buzzword now mindfulness, but you do need You know something to get a hold on the monkey mind. I want to talk to you about that um meditation And getting a hold of the monkey mind

now Do you think that sometimes I on walks I'll be chanting Hare Krishna and I have you know very Wonderful moments Through that does that count as meditating or is meditating limited to just sitting Still for some period of time It is absolutely sitting still minimal minimally 10 minutes

At least every day In a in the same kind of place would be good too, you know Little corner where that's all you do so so walking around and chanting doesn't count or being in your car and watching your breath or Any of that stuff that that's secondary to this moment of finding a place and sitting still for 10 minutes Absolutely, that doesn't mean, you know going around chanting is another method Okay, but it's too easy to get daydreaming, you know either, you know breathing in your car is good like you know to just get to some Place of equanimity, you know before you're going to do something or whatever you're going to meet somebody where there's any anxiety That's a great practice

But and so it's chanting, you know just walking down the street, but none of it replaced is the formal Coming back to whatever that, you know in the case that you know, that's Practice we've been doing for a long time is and we've meant we've talked about it before, you know Insight meditation or vipassana Where you're just using your natural breath focusing on the feeling of either your rising stomach Rising and falling stomach or the feeling is the breath goes in the nostrils and out without any effort And then every time you realize your loss you come back and as Sharon just said earlier today this morning

That is the great beauty Because you can start again once you realize you're lost You can start again and you just keep doing that and nothing stays the same And that's the insight you get when you get into the more deeper parts of this meditate of this practice So yeah, that is not replaceable. So that is a so it interestingly that reminds me that seems to be a microcosm of the entire spiritual practice, which is that it Involves getting lost it involves not just

Finding yourself again, but getting lost is seems to be as much a part of this Process is Not being lost. Is that fair to say? Yeah, absolutely. Um You know It's the nature of As humans and that's the good, you know, that's a good thing to wait in terms of self compassion compassion for your bullshit You know, that's definitely

A good mantra. It's okay. I'm just human You know, I think that's a great mantra. I don't know who whatever one of these teachers said that It's okay. I'm human. It's okay. I'm human. What a cool mantra. I've never heard that before Yeah, I think that's great. By the way. Yes, um There's some people at this retreat. I said, how did you get here? This is a young guy from Australia, right? A Duncan I listened to Duncan That's great. Hey, and then Then he comes up to take a picture of ramdas and he met somebody else another young girl, right?

and uh I said and she said we just met Because we both came here because we heard about her on dunking. Oh, that's so cool. Wow How you're like the pied piper for uh, ramdas or something. Yeah, I'm the pied piper. It's true I mean, I do I well because I talk about them all the time and I talk about you guys all the time because you guys have Had such an impact on me and these conversations that were recording What's so cool is every once in a while you'll just call me you always call me exactly the right time And you always accidentally bring up something that I've been wondering about or stuck on and these conversations

Are so rejuvenating to me because every that's what you guys do is you remind me again and again and again that it is about Just finding yourself in the moment just going back to finding yourself in the moment and also this Um, it's nice to be reminded that I need to be meditating again because I stopped I always stop ragu I'll get it down, man. I'll have it twice and you're going to hell and you you just You should start watching jimmy swaggered so he can knock the evil out of you Do you think I should start whipping my own back with my belt? Yeah, it's good. That's a good. That's what ramdas recommends, right?

Didn't maharajee have everyone sit and whip themselves with their own belts in the morning? Yeah in riad Now I wanted to ask you if you could um So walk me through what you do in the morning when you meditate. How does it work for you when you get up? Do you mind like you wake up and then what happens? My wife wants to have a chat with me and then I tell her, you know what? I'm really not good at talking for about, you know, another 90 minutes That's what happens

Um, and she's listening to this now. I bet whenever this is going to air. So hi Hi, sorry. Sorry. It's one listen. It's exactly what I said Just now. I do that practice. I I use the natural breath You know the practice of vipassana you go online Sharon Salisbury jack cornfield Put them up on your thing let people go and they give beautiful They have all kinds of different cd dvds and all both. Sure. I listen. I'm listening. I listen to them all the time So, but I'm curious about you. I'm curious about you wake up. Do you have coffee first?

No So you wake up you go you go to your puja table Uh, exactly and you burn incense No No incense No, it's gonna bother me kind of billowing incense that's been made in india with toxic materials. No, no candles Nothing. No zero. So you you and and and do you sit in a chair or a cushion?

On the cushion And you sit in a cushion and then you just by the way, what's that? Who would be interested in this? Well, I'm intro you've already because I mean, I don't know if there's a right way to do it But I I'll tell you if I am meditating. Here's what I do Wake up. Look at my phone. Check my messages. Go to reddit go to cnn.com If I really want to get bummed out, I'll go to the drudge report Then I wake up. I go into my kitchen get a

Pour some coffee I'll burn incense light some candles make a big show of the thing. I have a bell I'll ring the bell. I don't even know why ring it. Then I sit down Oh, that's fantastic. I'm actually could you send me your list? I like your list way better I'm gonna start doing it the way you do it and I'll probably get enlightened You know and that brings up another thing. Nobody should think anybody has I mean the reality is we do have to get a Hold of our minds and that is

Seemingly the simplest way is just follow your breath and whenever you're lost come back to it Sit with a straight back as possible or and be comfy And try and do at least 10 and then get to 20 and that's it and and you know, you'll there will be a re in statement Some of the sanity that you've lost this lifetime Right and it's shocking and that's the other thing that happens when I do meditate And then at the end of the period I will suddenly feel so much better It reminds me of when I go running

And there's something in that that's so Simultaneously wonderful yet the mind Does not like the simplicity of of of it It's almost as though the mind doesn't want it to be that easy that you could just sit down And then suddenly feel feel a minute now It's not easy the hardest thing I ever did was one of these the posh and a 10 day courses It still probably would remain the hardest thing that is that is nuts when I hear about those 10 day vipassana courses I just can't just even thinking about it right now gives me a

Headache and anxiety attack Yeah fear and you should have it because sitting and facing yourself hour after hour after hour Especially in your case could be a frightening possibility Uh, but uh You know what you walk out of there first of all you can meditate for the rest You'll know how to meditate for the rest of your life. That's worth something Yes, really do it and second of all you have gone through some Definitive catharsis of your inner being so for sure for sure

But you know, we don't have to get that heavy about it really if you just sit down and just start the process of watching You know just watching letting the thoughts go, you know not Catching on to everything. That's what's really going on. That's where the the compassion comes in whenever you realize you're sticking Or you're doing what uh, Sharon called today. She was yesterday or today Doing the add-ons. You know what the add-ons are. No Geez, it's really humid in here. I'm kind of feeling humid sticky I wonder if I you know if I'm gonna start sweating But I got to go out so I wonder if the shirt I'm wearing is the right one

Okay, that's the you're lost. You're it's called if there's an actual Poly term for it. I don't know the poly word, but it means proliferation Okay, so until you can get a grip on that and that's what Sharon is teaching and by the way It's upstreaming as we speak if you go to can I give this little uh, yeah, please But you know the problem is if you give it it won't this comes out and Yeah, because you're not can't you just put this out right away if you know what? You well then but then it's gonna mess up my plan

Which is to make it the 108th episode But you know what I will do is if you when we get up when we get done with this podcast I'll tweet live stream ramdas retreat So, you know what don't even worry you can do that But the reality is this if you go to ramdas.org you'll see A live spring retreat stream you just hit on that and it's going to be cached So you'll be able to watch it anytime. That's so cool that you guys do that Yeah, no it is I mean it's it's our mission statement. It's to share

It's just what you know, it's what ramdas was about when he came back From india and his guru said, you know the first time he said whatever you do Don't talk about me That's all he did he didn't do anything more than that That's the way you get your message out is you tell you tell hippies not to talk about you Hey, could I uh, could I read one more thing? Please Uh, to me this this is uh, this is a quote from a book by a man named joseph goldstein Who is Sharon's partner at the

IMS which is uh Insight meditation society in barry, uh, massachusetts Um, who just wrote a book called mindfulness, which is just this it's a very very thick book That is absolutely incredible. I'm not you know, not something you just not like uh, not bedtime reading It's really something to work with kind of a deal. Um, but he had one of the best, uh Uh, explanations and definitions of compassion Uh, and it really references everything you and I have been talking about when you're talking about what does that think and just leverage out of us out

Of the you know ignorant part of ourselves. This is causing so much pain, right and we talked about compassion Compassion is the very act of emptiness of self This is compassion not as a stance of the ego Or even as a particular practice But as this spontaneous expression of a heart and mind Free of self reference Wow Is that I mean that's where we that's the only thing that's gonna

It's gonna save not only ourselves, but everybody You know, let's everybody, you know, that's too dramatic. No, it's beautiful. I've had these experiences I know I know what he's talking about. I've had it the first time I felt that I was on lsd I was on this Wonderful liquid lsd that someone had at this party. I've never had lsd like this since Um, it was amazing. It was just this Someone must have just made it a day before or something. It was just perfect

organic What's that Fresh and organic fresh and organic and just you know I don't know if if you ever come into contact with Well made or I don't know anything about lsd manufacture But if you come into contact with the real thing it is it is really like getting to Just kiss jesus on the lips and I it was I remember sitting I was with this girl. We were listening to

I think we were listening to bay tovan She had a record and she was playing it and I was listening to the musical notes And then I started thinking about my thoughts and I'm thinking this is you know I'm thinking this is mindfulness practice before I ever came in contact with it really I'm just thinking like well my thoughts are there and then I started thinking where are my thoughts coming from like What's producing the thoughts and I was able to follow the thoughts all the way back And something happened in that moment where I just was It's gone

like I just something happened and it was just this feeling of expansiveness and That's all just this sense of you know, it reminds me of what ramdas says when he says dying is like taking off a shoe That's too tight You know, it was that feeling so I know exactly that idea of being free from self reference Yeah, yeah, and and and of course that's why psychedelics, you know, they were important to us too You know those of us that went to india at that time and followed, you know his lead

We had a and he himself we had a basic understanding experientially of what was being talked about You know, so when we actually went there and met that thing that was like meeting a giant I don't know what to call him, uh, you know that explains it in a way that it's not the normal terms of You know indian to enlightened or realized, you know It's a Giant love computer that knew exactly the right thing for everybody to get free

at every second And was omniscient knowing past present and future of every being, you know, so, you know, whatever that That's a that was one of my first impressions of him when when I was there. Wow. So Um To have a sense of that which you did through that acid truth Is high, you know, it's pretty important. Um And now i'm not and most people go out take acid and go to Electronic or concerts, right? Sure. So, you know, that's a different that's just the same kind of thing

We talked about it at the very beginning It is what, you know, how you relate with You know, if it's hunting and you're relating with it In a way that you are participating in the cycle of life and you are completely connected That's way different from someone who's you know, got a submachine gun out there, you know, you know hunting animals Okay, that that's two completely different things right in the same way. So is this And it's and I see what you're saying now. It's it's this okay. Okay. This is This reminds me of something that I was thinking. Um, because I've been listening to a lot of jack cornfield lately and and thinking about a lot of what he's

Talking about The thought when you think about reality nature Life everything around us and us You can either have an experience of directly connecting with it Or you can have an experience of trying to not connect with it trying to avoid connecting with what's happening And if you get caught up in your thoughts thoughts are this kind of like phantasmal representation of life They're you do you know, they're they're ghosts they're clouds

And and you get caught up in in those clouds then you're not having a direct interface with life And it seems like the compassion that you are talking about Is having a once you really start connecting to life Then how would you be violent or how could you be? In that if you were really in that state of interfacing with those animals hanging there Watching Yeah Yeah, that that's that nothing to do with compassion when when this stuff start when you

When it when you do start to evolve you just can't do those kinds of things because it's just so unconscious and ignorant You can't do it. You can't be slaughtering, you know animals. You can't do it You know and that's a whole other level now the level I mean what we're talking about with compassion is a way to leverage the Complete self-referential nature that we have I mean mine all day long Attached to and stuck to every thought as if it's real that's what

Way to to leverage that is the first thing you got to do is stop hating yourself for having those thoughts Or feeling less than or feeling more than you know And and so that's what we're talking about is having you know, it's ramdus calls. I love my thoughts to death It seems so I I love what you're saying But it's I'm just gonna let my mind speak for a second because my mind when it when it contemplates the idea of spending any amount of time

either like loving either my narcissism or Embracing what's happening the way I'm living and the way I'm acting For better or for worse when I'm being kind or when I'm being cruel It when it considers the idea of letting myself relax into it even for a second it is like it's That's a monstrous act. It's the it's like I don't understand relax into what into the cruel you're been cruel to somebody let's say

I'm saying okay, for example, just a simple simple um I can't enjoy if I'm when I'm not meditating which I'm not doing right now It's very hard for me to enjoy anything Everything that I do is laced with some bit of guilt so and especially things that aren't related to working or Producing something working on a podcast or working on stand-up or writing or exercising so for example if I'm

I don't know Playing a video game. Let's say let's say I sit down and decide to play a video game I can't do it if I do it for more than a few minutes I'm just filled with such a sense of self loathing And I look at what I'm doing and I just think you can't do this anymore. You're 39 man You can't play it video games. This is fucked up. You are um wasting time you're wasting time And so and so then I I'll play that I'll that never has stopped me from playing a video game

But I'll just now I'll just play it with this feeling of guilt or let's say I'm eating marijuana for example Let's say I wake up in the morning and I and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna eat some marijuana and go right at a cafe So I'll go I'll eat marijuana. Everything becomes beautiful. I'll sit and write at the cafe But there's always an undercurrent this dark black river of guilt running through everything. So I got it. Okay. The doctor has a solution. Great Keep eating that marijuana every day Twice a day and go do keep doing it and play and play the video game while you're doing it

It's probably more you know more fun. Yes, because nothing's gonna happen to you you get just you don't get anything out of it You're gonna continue to do that till you either don't get anything out of it or it's distracting You know some other priority, right? Yes, but so nothing's gonna change You are gonna keep doing this shit until it just sort of you know It evolves into something that because nothing stays the same. You're not gonna be doing this forever, right? Either You know, I mean whatever it might be. So what the only thing you can deal with is is the guilt is to is to Love that is to give it space is to

Just witness it From a deeper place that you know, you're human. There's your mantra. It's okay. I'm only human Oh God that is so wild man That is so you are what you're saying is blasphemy to so many people so many people would hear that and they would think no No, you don't embrace that you don't embrace that you you stop clench Clench up tighten your muscles go jump in some mud or you know find some uncomfortable activity to spend your time doing Until you feel better about yourself

No, you do that might be the next thing you do because it's proliferation goes from guilt To you know trying to hammer yourself to death thinking, you know, you whatever it may be it goes from one emotion to another Yes, so each time you just it's like when you're meditating you and you you realize you're lost and thought and you're not Uh feeling the breath going in and out of your nostrils as you breathe normally You know and oh lost and thought so instead of going oh my fucker. I've lost it again You go out great. Okay. I'll start again So you keep starting again by okay. I'm you know, I feel guilty about this and you know, I'm a lazy fuck And uh, you know, I'd rather do this than meditate or whatever and I just find out fun

You know, it's okay. It's okay. And you stop that self-referential We need to do you think I mean, I'm doing this all this time myself And but that is uh, my little method or our methodology It's so cool, man And it's so intense because it is not passive to really do that That is not a passive thing to really just let yourself be in the thing and while you're in it love it Instead of ripping yourself to shreds over whatever the Dissatisfying thing or the thing that's less than the way you think you should be that you're doing it's just

It really is I I think it's a revolutionary take on on on it. You know, it's a You don't hear that a lot of the time so many models of the way to be are based on in you know Symbolically whipping yourself with some kind of belt Spare the rod spoil the child Hello So we got we oh one second so we got cut off for a second there. Hold on one second And uh, when we were cut off, um, where we left it was, um So what I was we got cut off right when I said it seems like

So many systems teach that you should be hurting if you want to grow spare the rod spoil the child What system where is that system? It's the it's the system of the of public education. It's the system of the military industrial complex prisons It's the system of work. It's the system of capitalism It's the idea that if you want good things you suffer now suffer in the moment So in some future point you can feel great, but right now if you're not feeling bad, you're not doing something right Okay, we grew up with the worst horror in this culture. Yes. It's true

And our parents said whatever they did and past car. I mean we have a lot at surus as they say Yes, you know what surus are Say that again, please out you fade it out We have a lot at surus Yes a lot of surus problems. Yes And so what we just got it just stopped looking at the You know the this big ugly world that has created the monsters that we call us In terms of being completely lost and ignorant and say, okay

We have some tools now and we're going to start to use these tools because we don't want to be so screwed up anymore That's you know, there's you have to have some motivating force for wanting to change Whatever it is. It could be through suffering or it could be just through Waking up on acid seeing the connectivity of everything and knowing that that is possible so So that that's we'll go back to the tool the two tools compassion for you know, all of these feelings and self-referential

bullshit that comes up every second and start Loving it to death. It's the only is the best way you could say it. I mean compassion or the or you know We're only human. We really are only human. We're doing the best we can so we're only human So you pick yourself up. I mean if if you walk home today, you know go home today from this podcast And go, okay I've been feeling shitty because I haven't meditated and somehow something's waking me up and I think I'm going to start again So you'll start again. Great. That's the beauty of the human thing. We can start again because we got consciousness

Oh God you're I'm so lucky I really must be one of the luckiest people ever that I get to have these conversations with you I feel so grateful. It really is cool, man. Every time it's like a tuning fork. This is why you need a spiritual community I think this is the reason there needs to be a sangha. This is why people need you know, because I You know, sometimes I'll I'll Some of my friends they don't have they don't have a ragu marcus or ramdas and and they get You know, they're you get they don't have someone to say listen. Love yourself and just meditate some more. You'll be fine

They don't even have that. So I I think it's so important what you guys are doing and I you know, I don't mean to like It's a little complex, of course. I don't want to dumb it down too much. There are other I mean certainly You know, look at someone like yourself. You delve into it. You've gone to retreats, right? You you're engaged with people like jack cornfield. Yes, right who have, you know, so much to offer practical stuff not esoteric Stuff, you don't need You know this guy Joseph Goldstein who's been studying and you know every year he goes on, you know, sell three months retreats. I mean he's really

um Practicing what he's preaching and has really is an amazing soul that That podcast will be out on a mind-rolling podcast folks In a in a couple of weeks But he said to me You know what? I'm not a buddhist Sky has been practicing buddhism for 50 years or something 45 years 40 years. Yeah, he said i'm not a buddhist

It's not about a buddhist. It's about self-awareness That's what it's about. It's about being able to do something decent for your neighbor Or anybody anybody you see every day that you're having, you know a generous exchange rather than What is what am I going to do? Oh god this that you know, whatever all the bullshit that goes through our minds so it's worth Getting control of that mind and it's worth practicing compassion. Well, it because it creates Revolutionary changes in your life and i'll give you an example and this is directly This is directly from from the stuff that that i've learned from going to the retreats and talking to you and

Rom das and jack cornfield, which is that i was having uh speaking of neighbors I was in a cold war with my neighbor um, and and we were in a cold war over uh I don't know the garbage cans and i don't know just we were She it just was a power struggle thing and i my ego would flare up and and i Didn't want to do anything that she wanted me to do Because i felt i didn't like the way she was asking me it's just all bullshit ego stuff

and You know i would so i was in this dumb war and i used to live my whole life like that man. Oh my life used to be Vengeance was normal like if i could win i that's all that mattered or if i could be You know even i'm not saying i was like a rampaging jerk, but definitely was into winning Winning these winning a war like that. I wanted to be the one you got apologized to i wanted to be the one on top but I remember just this you know from

Assimilating some of this stuff that you guys were saying and going into a mindful state and watching and thinking okay Wait, that's your ego that wants to Tell her that you think she's a fucking asshole and that if she has a problem talk to the landlord not me And so she got sick and i was thinking about all this stuff and and and and this was like she was sick in the midst of Us having real serious Like not serious, but we're just not getting along and then i'm like you know what i'm gonna get her some soup i'm gonna bring her some soup i'm gonna bring her some miso soup

Because that helps when you're sick and i brought it to her and i remember how happy she got and we looked at each other And suddenly this entire thing that would have been going on even to this very day It transformed and now when i see her We smile and talk and i'm living in a little tiny little utopian place here that used to be a war zone And that's because of what you guys are putting out there and that's how revolutionary this stuff can be And and because it really is important to have harmony with your neighbor It's a terrible feeling to know that

I know what you're feeling with your neighbor. It's it's a real mind fuck. It's a real drain Yeah, and i i'm not kidding about that. I'm having a real problem myself with it and uh, and you're absolutely right It's revolutionary and and what the this thing i read of the karma karma earlier You know fearlessness it takes real fearlessness to To even approach changing Who you've been, you know And so that's definitely part of the whole uh recipe for just being able to break through of Of this complete self-referential life that we lead

So, uh, that's beautiful though, and which yeah, that's really sweet Well, it's it's sweet and it's it's in it and it leads it's it leads to It leads to a kind to i don't know what the word for it is, but it's it's ecstasy It's a kind of great feeling the more you do these things the more um It's it's we the mind all the things the mind tells you to stay it's like the mind Looks at a hot tub And says oh that's freezing water do not go into that hot tub

And then you begin to think like god i i'm gonna avoid these actions of compassion and love at all cost That's the fear and then the moment it happens Wow, this feels better than anything i've ever felt And then you start thinking like well is this then then if i keep doing this then how ha What universe am i going to be living in? It's almost the opposite of an apocalypse You know, it's it's like a nirvana lips or something Nirvana lips

Yes nirvana lips That's i'm gonna i've got to save that i've got a that's got to be someone's nickname And by the way nirvana just got uh inducted into the uh rock and roll hall of fame and they deserve it They deserve because they were so happy didn't they used to play at the rom-dos retreats Oh, yes every yeah as every year. Yes kurt would reimagine his body and Reimagine his fun This is fun I always love hanging out with you. Well, I wonder what would have happened. That's funny to think

You know what what if kurt cobain had gone to a rom-dos retreat? Would we not have had nirvana? What would have happened? Would you guys have if eliminated? A wonderful band by transforming kurt cobain's angst into something beautiful and ecstatic You want to hear something crazy? Yes Kurt cobain's manager When nirvana is at the retreat happens to be a very Close old friend. His name is danie golbert

and he Is uh here at the at the retreat do you believe we're talking about that? That's wild Wow, that's cool. That is really cool. Those retreats are great, man I am not going to keep you away from the retreat any longer. We've we've done an hour. Thank you for for You're you're the time that you've given us and um, please I know everyone wants is going to want to know how to find that stream. So that's at rom-dos.org You guys are going to have this if people want to listen go to the retreat at least

Sort of go to the retreat listen to the lectures at the retreat. They can go there, right? Watch is not listen You know you actually it's a it's a video. Oh cool. Oh, that's great guys. You should definitely go and do this I'm going to action, but I'm going to do it and it's a good it's a far far away, but in december I'm definitely coming to that retreat. So some of your some of your audience You know your your podcast audience is at this retreat. How crazy is that? Well, hopefully they're listening this conversation Hi, you guys. I love you. I wish I was there with you I'm going to be there in december though. So come back again in december because I remember the

The last retreat I met people from the podcast and it's really cool hanging out in the beach at night after the retreat and everyone's just Naked Yeah, everyone's naked making love shooting heroin Just kidding everyone's heroin was nice with all right. I I love talking to you today Uh, I love you ragu. You are such a wonderful person. Thank you for this and um, I'll put all the links to The uh, ramdas website and mind rolling podcast which you got all of you should be listening to that podcast Um, and any other links that you send me links blah blah blah. Thank you ragu

Please tell everyone hello and uh, tell ramdas. I love him. Please We'll do all of you. All of all of by ragu. See ya. Aloha Thanks for listening everybody. That was ragu marcus Be sure to listen to mind rolling podcast located at mind rolling podcast dot com And go to square space dot com sign up for a membership. Put my name in duncan. You'll get 10 off Thanks for listening everybody and give us a nice rating on itunes. Won't you see you around. Bye. Bye