Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Shane Mauss

Episode Date: September 24, 2017

Comedian Shane Mauss returns from a brief trip to a psychiatric hospital and we talk about madness, synchronicity, the responsible use of psychedelics, and all the things that can happen when you take your DMT fueled fishing boat into uncharted waters of the universal mind.

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I've got a couple of live shows to announce. On Thursday, September 29th at 6 o'clock, the Dunkintrustle Family Hour podcast will finally do the very first DTFH in virtual reality. We're going to be doing it through AltSpaceVR. The date will be listed on my website. All you have to do is click on the link. You're going to go to an AltSpaceVR RSVP page. Just RSVP. You don't need a VR headset to do this. You can actually just watch it through your computer if you want to. It's going to be really cool. It's going to be very interesting. My first guests are from Singularity University.

It's going to be really exciting to talk about the potential benefits of virtual reality and all the other emerging technologies to help heal the world and solve some of the great world problems. That's what the people over at Singularity University are obsessed with doing, which is pretty cool. I'm also going to be doing a really cool show in New York on October 8th called Psychedelic Stories. It's a benefit after-party with Symposia and Maps. I'm going to be telling a psychedelic story along with Rick Doblin, the founder of Maps. Catherine McClain, Joseph Simcox, Adam Strauss, the writer and performer of the Mushroom Cure, comedian Archie Jameson, and host Lex Pelger.

That link is going to be on my website. That's going to happen at Lot 45 Bushwick in Brooklyn on October 8th. If you've got New York people who want to come and see a really cool show and help support Symposia and Maps, then come on out. It's going to be a blast. So there we go. All right, we got a fantastic podcast for you today. Our guest Shane Moss is a comedian that you've probably seen on Jimmy Kimmel Showtime. He has a Comedy Central Presents, a Netflix special called Mating Season, and a great album called My Big Break. He's also got a massive comedy tour, which is coming up, and you can find out all those dates. He's going to be doing 60 cities starting in October, which is crazy.

All those dates are at ShaneMoss.com. That's S-H-A-N-E-M-A-U-S-S.com. Okay, pals, I hope your pineal glands are ready to be decalcified because Shane Moss is about to blast them with rays of pure knowledge and love. Everybody, please welcome to the Dugga Trussell Family Hour podcast Shane Moss. Shane, man, thank you so much for coming up here to do this show. Thanks for having me. I hope it wasn't a wretched drive. No, it was fine. It took me about 40 minutes from Culver City. Oh my God, thank you. You came from Culver City.

Oh, no, it was so easy. That's a true act of love. With you, it's cool, man, because I have to keep saying, well, let's not talk before the podcast. We were starting to have this really cool conversation about stand-up comedy and overcoming whatever the boundary is between doing what you think comedy should look like and doing what you want to do as comedy. And it seems like you have this interesting, and I get to say a word I love to say, bifurcation happening in your craft. I do, yeah. I mean, I've been, so the last 10 years of my life, I've been a full-time comic making my living in comedy clubs. Just, you know, entertaining groups of strangers, you know, maybe 10, 20 people a show.

If I'm lucky, like, know who I am and familiar with my stuff and whatnot and trying to figure all of that out. And now I started a year ago with this, a good trip show that I've been doing about psychedelics doing indie venues for, I always did a few indie venues here and there. What is the show called? A Good Trip. A Good Trip. Yeah. It used to be called This Is Your Shane On Drugs, which was way better. And, but everyone thought I was going to be on drugs and I thought I was going to be like glamorizing like heroin and stuff like that.

So, so I, so I started doing this like a year ago, just doing some small indie venues and it went really well right away. And then I, I still have trouble getting people in and then I kind of figured out some of the marketing for it, made some tweaks and have been filling rooms. So now I'm doing a 65 city tour with it. 65. Yeah. That is so, are you just, are you driving in your car? Yeah, yeah. Now, why not an RV?

Why not rent an RV? I wanted to. I just don't have the money for it right now, to be honest. But if you, you don't, you think that the hotel fee costs are going to be comparable to, are going to be less than renting an RV. I mean, I think maybe if I could rent an RV like halfway through the tour or something like that and finish the rest of it out, maybe something like that would work for me. Cause I'll tell you, man, we, you know, when we went to Burning Man, we rented an RV first experience with an RV and it's the coolest. Yeah.

It's the coolest thing ever. What was it like 200 bucks a day or something like that? Well, it's for Burning Man. So they like really ratchet up the price because they know you're, you're taking their fucking sweet precious baby into the middle of a drug, fuel, desert pagan festival where it's going to get whipped by hot sands, potential for all kinds of puke and jizz that's spreading all over it. So they like rightfully ratchet up the price. But I think you can get RVs, you can rent them for pretty cheap, man.

I'll give you the, you don't want to use RV America. There's like, or rent America. Anyway, we don't have to have an RV talk, but I'm telling you, man. Just get a monthly rate or something like that. I bet you could get a monthly rate. And what I would do is I'd calculate 65 shows, however much it's going to cost for hotels. Airbnb's and stuff like that. Because what are you looking at?

I'm going to do a little bit of couch surfing here and there. I mean, I mean, basically I'm looking at probably about a hundred bucks a day for accommodations. But I want to, if I could just buy an RV right now, I would. I just don't have the funds for it. It's surprisingly cheap depending on the ones you get, you know. Less than you would expect for a rolling pleasure house. It's like 30 K something like that. When you call it a rolling pleasure house, I'm like, what am I doing without a rolling pleasure house?

You're really selling this idea. I mean, it just makes sense logically for what I'm doing. I'm hoping to do the same kind of show next year. I mean, it'll be different, but the same sort of like a big tour like this. And I'm hoping that I'll just own an RV at that time. God, the dream. Now, this is a 60, this is 65. 65.

It was going to be like 30 or 40 cities to start and then everything kept on going well. And the booking, it was really way easier than I thought it would be. And everything lined up really quickly. I just did a, like, I don't know, 28 shows in a row and I'm still recovering. What was it like? It was the best. Yeah. See, I've never done anything like this before.

I'm a hair nervous, but most gigs are only like three hours apart. And I loved just like three hours of driving. That's when I get all of my best thinking done and voice notes. I just, I was in a, you know, bus, man. So I was in like another rolling pleasure house. So from my experience was not, I didn't have to drive myself. That's awesome. So if you got to do these three hour trucks in between shows, you just need to make sure

that you've scheduled some nice breaks in between. You got to have these breaks, man. If you haven't put breaks in, I would go back and look at the schedule and put some breaks in because after seven shows of driving, I have like Monday, like a Monday off here or there or a Sunday off here and there. It's during football season, which I mean, it's a psychedelic tour. So I don't, I don't anticipate football interfering with that as much as other shows. But, but yeah, I have, I have probably like one day off a week until Christmas.

And then, and then, yeah. And then after Christmas, I have a big Christmas break. I also have a small Thanksgiving break. So I do have a couple of breaks in there. I have a break around Halloween for, I'm going to spend a couple of days in New York. So I'm breaking it up a little bit. Now, when I was just at Burning Man and I saw Rick Doblin give this amazing talk on, are you familiar with Rick Doblin?

Yeah, Maps is actually the honorary sponsor of my tour. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, yeah. We're doing cross promotion. They're going to promote my show to all their people and I'm going to have information and stuff at all my shows for them. Stuff about the Zendo project. Yeah, yeah.

So they're doing incredible work. And one of the things that Rick Doblin said during this talk, and I've heard him mention it before, but it really stuck with me in this particular talk because, you know, he started off by talking about how the Nixon administration intentionally made psychedelics illegal because they wanted to figure out a way to destabilize and destroy the hippie subculture that was springing. Yeah. The smartest way to do it was to make the sacramental substances that the leaders of the movement

were taking illegal. Yeah. You could destroy the whole thing. And so then he said, he talked about how because of that, all this misinformation has been distributed about psychedelics and then how now one activist move that every person should be doing who has experienced any kind of realizations or improvement in their life conditions from psychedelics is coming out of the psychedelic closet. And I really love that terminology for it because I know a lot of people who can't talk about

the psychedelics that they do. That was me. I mean, I only, I did how this tour came about originally. I mean, I didn't want to tell, I would do some jokes in my material a few minutes here and there, usually like really silly stories, you know, it wouldn't be like super informational or whatever like it is now. And I was on, you made it weird a while back and we weren't even going to, weren't planning on talking about this.

Just happened. DMT happened to be brought up, which is something I'm a fan of and I've done a lot of and we started talking about it. And then all of a sudden, like my agent happened to listen to it actually and my agent was cool enough rather than to be like, Hey, are you on some crazy drugs? She was like, what the hell was that? I want to know more about that DMT. And I was like, well, I do have an hour of material about this stuff.

I'm just not ready to like come out of the closet about it. And she's like, no, you got to do it. Right. And yeah, I think, I think a lot of people are coming out now. I mean, I interview scientists for my podcast. Here we are. And I talk with some people afterwards and they're like, you'd be surprised how many people in academia have, you know, dabbled a bit.

I think that it's a pretty, it's, it's a very intense thing to like, because, you know, you hear about like the varieties of closets out there, right? And to suddenly realize like, I mean, I haven't been in the psychedelic closet for much at all in this podcast, but still I hesitate to talk about it with my dad. Oh yeah. I don't want to make him uncomfortable. I don't want to tell him, you know, when I was a burning man, I had one of the most powerfully beautiful LSD experiences of my life or that are all the benefit that came from it,

you know, and then you sound like you're raving like a mad person to like that from their point of view, you know, and they're worried you have schizophrenia or something like that. I had, I mean, I wasn't going to do my hometown on my tour and I was like, you know what, screw it. Like I, I've, my parents have already heard me like talk, do like fisting jokes and they're like, whatever else. No problem. Like why, why can't I do the most intelligent material that I've ever written in my career,

you know, and, and I told my mom, I was like, this is the show that I'm doing. And you'll understand when you see it better. And, and she's still like so nervous about it. Well, they feel protective because they've been programmed to believe that these substances have some long-term neurological impact. And most of that research, if not all of it has been skewed, slanted, fucked up intentionally or just, I guess, through mishandling of the substances in a way that is painted a picture of these relatively harmless substances as being like just disastrous for humans life.

And, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine and she said that she was talking to this guy about LSD, about taking LSD. And he said to her, you know, just be careful with it because, you know, a lot of people who take LSD, they end up starting farms. I hope that's what like the after school specials of the future will be like. Everything was going great. He was moving up in his cubicle job. He had just got from the mail room into an assistant position.

Yeah. And then everything fell apart. Now look at him. He's making his own soaps. He's out in nature. He's he bought a fucking RV and he just drives around and experiences the beauty of the plan that he happens to be living on and destroyed his mind. It's a crazy person.

It wrecked his brain. Well, you know, that's it's intro time together. Everything we've already talked about, I have I have kind of a take on what happened during that the civil rights movement, the Nixon era a little bit. And so one of one of the testable kind of long term effects of psychedelics is so I've been talking on my podcast a bit about this big five personality indicator test. It's sort of like Myers-Briggs or something like that. But Myers-Briggs is kind of no one really uses that anymore in academia, but and it's not perfect.

I'm sorry. Is this the is this the personality test that they used to like in conjunction with the DSM for whatever? Yeah. You know, I'm talking about. I think I think so. That sounds very familiar. It's like the big manual of like mental illnesses that if you look through it, you've got every single one of them. Oh, yeah.

I don't think those two are connected exactly. But okay. So actually, if you want, if you want to get an idea of what it is put on, are you online right now? Yes, I am. Are you like logged into Facebook? I can get to Facebook. So instead, go to apply magic sauce dot com. Okay.

Got it. I'm going. Is this your website? No, this is this is a scientist at Stanford. Okay. This and then give give it access to your Facebook and it will tell you your personality based on your Facebook likes. Wow. That's so cool.

I can't wait to do that. Let me see. Let's see if we could do it. That's genius. It happens in like. Two seconds. Crazy. Okay.

I just did it. Wow. It's actually, huh? Cambridge is inviting me to come and be a professor there from this analysis. Is it? Did that happen to you? This is amazing. It's like, huh?

I don't know. It's saying I'm so kind of super genius. Okay. I'm logging in right now. Let's see what this does. Let's see. So it's guessing your age and your gender and sexuality. Totally off of my age.

Yeah. It said younger, right? Yeah. Because most of the things that you liked on Facebook were years ago. Yeah. When you did it. It says I'm 49%. I'm an androgynous.

You know what though? I don't really use faith. I guess I'm kind of androgynous. I don't use Facebook a lot. That's the, that's what's not perfect about it. Yeah. I barely go on there. So, but it does say let's see.

Neuroticism. 39%. Agreeableness. Agreeableness. Agreeableness. Agreeableness. 49%. Agreeableness.

43%. I'm more competitive than I am team working and trusting. Unfortunately, that's probably true. I'm contemplative. Yeah. I'm impulsive and spontaneous. Yeah. And then I'm right in the fucking middle of conservative and traditional.

Really? Weird. Well, I don't go on Facebook enough. Right. Yeah. Muscular. It says I'm beautiful. Beautiful.

Just a beauty. It says I'm 100% a beautiful man. See it nailed it. It's a perfect test. It's a perfect test. So, so these things are very flawed for many reasons, but the point is, is that so, so the big five are conscientiousness, which I'm very low in. Like I'm a very messy, disorganized person.

Agreeableness, which I'm low in. I like to argue with people and I'm skeptical and stability, neuroticism. I'm in the middle. So I'm not unstable, but I'm not terribly stable either. Extraversion. I'm kind of in the middle and then openness, which is the one that psychedelics do have a testable long-term effect on. So if you're very high in openness, which is people like you and I, like you can't get

enough novelty in your life, not enough stimulation, you need new information all the time, highly inquisitive. And the downside is, is that you tend to like question authority too much. You get yourself in a bit of trouble. Maybe you're too spontaneous sometimes. And the, but then the people that are really low in openness and people have evolved to have these spectrums of things for lots of reasons. They're very safe people.

Like they're, their hometown is the best by travel outside of it. You know, your, your local sports are the best. Your country is the best. You haven't been to another country because that's terrifying, but you definitely know yours are because your founding fathers weren't humans. They're infallible deities all knowing. And like your church that you were raised in is absolutely the right church. The other ones sound kind of wacky and scary to you.

And, and so, and the benefit is, is a lot of these people are like really pillars of the community because they really follow the playbook that kind of life gives you, you know, so these people like love laws, like wish they were a little stricter, but laws are the best. So if you're a lawmaker, these are your absolute favorite people. And one thing that psychedelics have proven to do in most cases is a single dose will, will have a long term effect of, of you will rate higher in openness for the foreseeable future for like a year or so.

Usually. And so all of a sudden on top of everything else that was going on with the civil rights movement, you were starting to lose all of these nice little rule followers. And then all of a sudden women wanted rights out of nowhere and these colored people and no one wanted to go to war anymore. And it's just a nightmare. And, and so that's, that's my take on why it was because Nixon actually hired a team of people to inform him on what to do, like scientists, doctors and stuff like that.

And they told them that therapy and, and de-scheduling was, was the right way to go with it. And he's like, nah, screw all that. And then, and he set up all the scheduling system initially made a schedule one. It's sinister. I mean, when you realize just how absolutely fucking sinister the, the entire, your most of your conceptualization of psychedelics is been placed there, not by the truth, but by an organized superstructure that wanted to infiltrate and destroy the power structures of groups of people who wanted to make the planet a non-warring, non-authoritarian sort

of place. It's mind bending. And, and a lot of these people that weren't even smart enough to put together these conspiracies were just, were just fearful people that are, were also misinformed and also just happily bought into any of this hysteria as well. So you take all of those things and put them together and it's pretty, it's a pretty sad situation. I've been doing psychedelics more often since putting together this tour for, you know,

material quote unquote. Yeah, sure. And, and I've, so I've had lifelong chronic depression since I was like nine years old or so. I remember it's like right around fourth, fifth grade. And, and it's pretty much gone away just, just in the last year. I thought it was just going to be this is what I'm going to live with with the rest of my life.

That's fine. I can handle it. And, and it's, I mean, I still get depressed, but I don't have chronic depression. I don't have debilitating depression, depression anymore. Like I don't have to sit in my room for three weeks straight, not being able to talk to anybody. Yeah. You know, that's, you hear this again and again and again. Here are so many people who are having these, you know, and a massive transformations in

their identity and their perception of what, what's important and what's not important. Yeah. Just their outlook, how they treat others, their sense of empathy. And so do you, I mean, do you kind of feel like you're a missionary or something when you do this show? Do you feel like you're proselytizing a little bit? I, I, I'm worried that that's what I'm doing because that's not, that wasn't my intention, certainly.

I like doing theme shows. My, my first, when I started working internationally, you know, all these international acts and like Australia and around Europe, they're, they're always putting together like these kind of solo shows to do in like Edinburgh fringe festivals. And I was like, well, I want to be a part of that. And so I was trying to just put together themed things and I knew I wanted some science themed stuff. So I had my first, my first whack at it was I did a Netflix special mating season, which

I'm ultimately not that happy with because I was still trying to cater to strangers way too much. Right. And I dumped it down way too much. And then my last one was about breaking my feet and about negative emotions. And then it was like, that's when I got it. That's when I figured out how to make a solo show and like a themed show. And then I just happened to have this folder full of psychedelic jokes and just thought

it would be fun to put together. And next thing I know, like, I mean, the reaction from people was like kind of overwhelming. So I've been able to add more information into it because they're such patient audiences. And so it all just kind of happened, felt together by accident. This wasn't like, I didn't really plan it out that much. Do you feel like what you're doing is kind of cathartic for the audience? Like if you're somebody who's in a small town and you, you have in your own, you know, private life and experimenting with psychedelics.

Yeah. Don't you feel that way with everything that you do? I mean, you'll go to places in, you know, very, very conservative areas that I'm sure you probably before you actually did them were probably a little nervous about how your stuff would be received. And you, there are these pockets of people that are so hungry for it. And like when you start talking about, when I start talking about LSD, you know, just recently on this tour, I wasn't even doing it at one point because it was just bicycle

day. So I was just telling the story of LSD and one part in the, in the people loved it, man. And like the, the kind of cheers you get from people who are finally, I guess, getting to be in a community of people who've maybe all experienced it, but you're not supposed to talk about it. It's really, it seems to be a, I think you should proselytize. I don't think that's anything you should be, feel worried about.

I don't want to be too preachy. Yeah. But you know, when you bring a group of people, I don't know what you mean, but, and it is a, it's a, it's a, it's a tough, it's a fun line. Well, here's, here's my problem with it. Sometimes, sometimes I have to ask myself like, okay, is this still entertaining or am I just being self-indulgent right now? And that, and that's the, I don't mind if it's preachy, if it's still like funny or

interesting and entertaining, but if it's, if it feels, if it starts feeling self-indulgent, that's when I get a little nervous. That's when you've fallen off the line. And it's okay. You're not going to stay on, sometimes, man, you're going to get self-indulgent up there. And then when you do, usually it just means you need to work a little bit more on the material, right? That's all.

It just needs to be refined a little bit more. I think it's the intention behind it. Yeah. That's what matters. Like if you're getting up there with at least an inkling of wanting to help people, not in a sanctimonious way, but an actual sense of like, shit, man. I mean, think of the times when you were introduced to psychedelics and the way that you were introduced to psychedelics and how lucky you were to come into contact with them.

And so if you're doing that for people, like that would be an amazing thing if from your show, people, some people who've maybe haven't crossed the boundary. It happens all the time. What are some stories you've heard from your audience about being inspired to take psychedelics after a couple? A lot of times it'll be like a couple where one of them has done it, the other one hasn't. And then they haven't been able to like explain or make a convincing argument to the person. And that other person that has been nervous about it or whatever is like, you've given

me a lot to think about and I think that it is something that I'm interested in. And by the way, I don't necessarily think psychedelics are for everybody, but it's also silly that we feel the need to do this dumb disclaimer. Like if I did a disclaimer about alcohol, I'd be fired from everywhere that I went. You know? That's crazy. I just started saying... You mean like maybe alcohol isn't for everybody?

Yeah, yeah. I would be fired immediately. That club would not have me back. Like starting a show? I'd be like, you guys, you know... Just a little warning. It can get you in a bit of trouble. It's considered as almost as deadly as heroin and probably has done more damage to our society

than any other drug. You'd be fired. You couldn't do it. No. And my silly little joke that I just introduced into my act about it is how I'm an advocate for psychedelic rights and psychedelic research doesn't mean that I think it's for everybody. Like I'm for gay marriage. I don't think everyone should be gay or married.

Right, right, right. So it's so silly that we have to do all these little disclaimers too and you still feel the need. And I mean, I definitely want people to be safe and don't want to be responsible for someone getting themselves in a bad situation. Does that... If I were you and even if I'm me, sometimes that's a real concern for me because I just, you know, imagine...

I don't know how I would react if I, you know, to hear about some disaster. You know, I was just... When I was a burning man, I was having this conversation with somebody and we were discussing like what's the worst trip you've ever seen? Like what's the worst bad trip you've ever witnessed? And his description of this was just so terrifying. Like it was like he saw somebody trying to rip their teeth out of their head. Have you ever seen anyone have a terrible trip?

Yes. Can you talk a little bit about that? It was very... It was a long time ago. It was a guy who had lots and lots and lots of problems already. Like this guy, this guy was already like schizophrenic clearly and he was right around that age too. So he was still managing it but clearly had schizophrenia. You know, he would have been around 23 at the time and has been in trouble with the law his whole life

and for every drug under the sun. So just to give you an idea of how fucked up this guy, he once escaped from a jail that he was in. Wow. And then he stole a car and somehow like then got his hands on some acid with like a friend of his that was nearby and then drove the stolen car from point A to point B like in a straight line. Like not using roads or anything like in a straight line. And then like navigating by the North Star or whatever. Wow.

But that guy, I remember him getting institutionalized. He ate a bunch of mushrooms and he ended up... He cut his wrists and then he was writing all over his bedroom walls messages in his blood. Wow. I hate sharing stories like that because that's the... People hear one story like that and they think like that's what fucking psychedelics are. And so yeah, you definitely don't want to be responsible for something like that. But I mean...

I mean how many people die climbing Everest? Like look at the dead body scattered around that place. No one's making mountain climbing illegal. It's like just... If you're going to like experiment in these ways with these things, then yeah, of course there's some danger. I know what you mean though. You don't want to like somebody to start like tripping and then think about this shit and talking about the dude. But for me, when the psychedelic begins to kick in and you feel the initial energetic surge moving through your body

and then there's that contact or something with yourself or whatever you want to call it and then you realize man, this is an amazing universe where existing and then if like in the midst of that the light is shined upon some petroglyphs in the cavern of yourself that maybe you didn't know or down there I think as long as you look at it is like when the weird shit starts coming up. As long as you look at that as even more of a gift than seeing the beautiful stuff. You have to be able to look at it that way. I mean I say that psychedelics are an adult drug. I would say that if they were legal that I would hope that the age restriction would be anyone under like 25 years old

because that's when like the prefrontal cortex is fully formed and your decision making skills are more operational. Right. And then you have a better understanding plus you're kind of past the age where you're susceptible to schizophrenia. I gotta tell you though man, I had some beautiful trips when I was in my teens. I know, I know. It's kind of like kind of sad because I mean it's not sad. I'm glad it happened. But when I look back it's a little bit like being given access to the Library of Congress before you can read.

Right. You're just sort of staring at this amazing shit and you don't have anything to connect it to. You don't have any way to like oh shit. You know that writing I'm seeing in my friend's car seat appears to be some form of Tibetan. Or is this like a universal language? Am I witnessing like the precursor language and the depth of the human psyche? You know that kind of stuff. You don't have that when you're in West Henderson High School.

You're just like dude, do you see letters everywhere? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well and I mean to go back to what you were saying with it pulling out some kind of dark stuff that you didn't know was in there. I mean when you're college aged and like so uncertain about yourself and you're already confused and psychedelics tend to kind of exaggerate and bring out who you are already. Like you don't necessarily, you might not be ready for all that you know. Especially, I mean the first step of this stuff will be and there will be trained therapists administering it. And I do believe that that would be a very safe environment for anybody. Oh man.

I mean I got, you know, at Burning Man I got lucky enough to be in a camp with this psychiatrist who volunteers at the Zendo. So I think he's the director of it. So just talking to him, you know, sober, non-sober. Just talking to, you know, somebody who's been trained to like to allow a person to be themselves and to not judge them and to just let you sort of relate your subjective experience without being like somebody being like what? Yeah. And just when you see how, what training can do for a person. It was amazing. Like how it's just a, you know, we need these, of course the word for it is shaman, right?

That's what, that was the idea. We had a, you have a person who was trained at being around a person who's been completely opened up psychologically and allowing all those whatever bats to fly out of the cave without looking at them and drawing back. Yeah. I think, I think that if you're someone that's never meditated and you're interested in it, or I mean psych, never done psychedelics and are interested, but are nervous, definitely start with meditation first. Right. You'll be able to handle your trip so much better. Yeah, or practice. You're right.

Practice like, I mean the trick is the next time the thing pops up in you that you don't like about yourself, like whatever it may be, some physical thing you don't like. For example, like right now, my abs, they're too developed. Like I look at my abs. Like, I look at- Yeah, it's embarrassing, right? It's embarrassing. Yeah. Cause I go to the beach, you know, and people see me, they prejudge me.

Yeah, right. Like, here comes the jock with a fucking massive developed grip deck. And you know, like- It's every day of my life. It's, I know man, we both, that's I think where we connect. Like that combination of abs with like a noticeably gigantic phallus mixed in with like both of us. It's distracting. But you smell great.

I always have a natural kind of like pheromonal odor that comes out of me. Right. It's just like- Yeah, yeah. It's been described as like a combination of temple incense and lotus petals. You get that too, right? I smell it on you. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, for me like- It's been described many times. I would say many, many times. So, to walk among people and then like- Right, right. And then you know you're at the beach and someone comes up to you and they say, are you a god? And you're like-

And just stay humble for all of that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But meditation, it teaches me. It teaches me when I gaze upon my asymmetrical love handles. You know, like the next time you find yourself gazing at whatever the particular aspect of your meat body that maybe you're dismayed about, or maybe there's some aspect of your life you're dismayed about. If you can catch that moment of dismay and just even make the attempt to embrace it, to convert it, to do exactly for that moment of dismay,

what it seems like these trained psychedelic counselors do with people who are pouring their heart out to them, which is just to let it be, to not judge it, to let it come out and to trust that this is like- You can love every single moment. I think that's what a practice, a meditation practice, or mindfulness gives you. So that when you do take the psychedelic and you are faced with a goddamn demigorgan, or whatever the fucking thing is that you're just so scared of confronting, you can practice the same thing with it. Yeah.

And that's a cool moment. I think that that is one of the kind of biggest, or slight variation on that anyways. One of the biggest takeaways for me with psychedelics is just the idea of, when psychedelics do take you on that roller coaster ride, and you're aesthetically blissful one minute, and then the next minute you just couldn't be more down on yourself, and then just knowing like, oh, that was nothing actually changed just now, other than some chemicals in my brain,

and that's all that's affecting my mood most of the time. Right. And you can choose to encourage more of the positive ones in your life if you want to. And it's not a bunch of bullshit either. Actually, our brains are set up to have a negativity bias because it evolved to keep us safe. Right. We focus on the negative so much more because this idea in psychology of negativity bias came from engineering actually, the engineer smoke alarms to,

you can't make a perfect smoke alarm. Right. So it can err in two ways. It can either go off when you don't need it to, and that's super annoying. But it cannot go off when you need it to and people die. So there's a huge cost there. So they intentionally buy us smoke alarms to go off more often than they need to because the cost involved.

And so our brains have developed, have evolved the same biases. So the rustling in the brush is often just rustling. Oh my God. The next time you're having a paranoid trip, if you just realize it's a shitty smoke alarm and your brain is going off, detecting a thing that ain't there. That's genius. Oh, that's so comforting. And this actually even just someone who's as experienced as I am,

and there's plenty of people way more experienced than me, I've tripped many, many times in my life. And I, the last acid trip that I had was just a few weeks ago. And I still, and I knew it was going on and I still fell victim to it. What happened was I was out at the lake with my girlfriend. She had never done acid before. And so I was already like kind of in protective mode, which I always am when I'm around people.

And then, and we're out and it's like 110 degree day. It was great, but it was midday and we really shouldn't, we put sunscreen on and everything, but we really shouldn't have been out just right in midday. Right. And we're out there and I got a sun rash on my, on my thighs. And I'd never had a sun rash before and, and I didn't know. And she's like, what is that?

I'm like, I think it's a sun rash. And she's like, no, that's not normal. And I was like, I think it's okay. I think like we should just go and get in the shade. I think it's just my skin telling me to get in the shade. She's like, no, no, that's not normal. And then all of a sudden I'm like, maybe she's right. I mean, it does look weird.

Like maybe I'm having, maybe this is like bad acid that I'm somehow having some weird reaction to is the rest of my body going to start looking like this. Is it going to look like this permanently? Do I need to get to a hospital? How do I get to the hospital? I don't have phone reception right now. And I don't think I should drive right now. And, and then all of a sudden, and I'm like, okay, I know what's happening.

And I know this panic isn't real, but I'm still having it. And I was telling her and I was like, I'm sorry right now because usually when someone's going through something like this, there's usually like someone like me around to help them out. And now I'm that person. And so it, I mean, it can still grab you. Oh my God, you became a grateful dead lyric. You who choose to lead must follow.

But if you fall, you fall alone. And it's true. If you put yourself in the position of being a caretaker and you take an equal amount of LSD as somebody else, then you have to be ready to like when the demon comes into you, you got to like, and it's kind of cool if you're caretaking you can maybe avoid it or something like that. But man, that's crazy. So how did you overcome it?

It was about 30 minutes of just like, I mean, I told her, I'm like, I am panicking right now, but I know consciously that everything's going to be fine. And consciously I'm not worried about it. I just need like 20 minutes for these hormones to dial down. And so you just got to sit here and watch me just freak out for like 30 minutes. Cool. And then everything will be all right. Yeah.

And, and it was, it was great. Yeah, it's a that those opportunities are so cool. You, it's like, you, how often do you really get an opportunity to experience a kind of illusionary panic attack as opposed to like, you know, like sometimes and unfortunately hopefully it won't happen for any of us again, but we end up in situations where you need those chemicals to be blasting because there's some weird motherfucker who's coming at you in the middle of the city or maybe your car's brakes aren't working the way they should as you go downhill.

Or maybe you need to get out of a house that's on fire. You need that burst. Yes. But to have that minus the impending doom and to get a chance to experience these ecstatic yet horrifying states. It's a, it's amazing. Yeah. The work you can do in that heightened, like the way you did was work there

just to be able to like recognize not real temporary. Yeah. Oh, that in its own right. It's so, it's so powerful. Yeah. I mean, if you, when you, when you say, you know, are you feel like you're, you're trying to lead something or, you know, preaching or whatever it might be. I would say that more than like, Hey, everyone go and do psychedelics.

I would say that a more important message for me would just be like, Hey, let's all just calm down. Let's just everybody calm down a little bit. Right. And there's, there's this fantastic book, Why Zebras Don't Get Alsers by probably my favorite scientist, Robert Sapolsky. He's a genius and a really smart guy. And, and it's basically the gist of it is, is that every basically every,

every animal, every mammal has about the exact same stress response system. So, so a zebra sees a lion and it releases these glucocortozoids and, and then this cortisol and everything. And what it does is it delegates energy to the parts that need it. So it goes, let's shut down, let's shut down the digestion. Don't need it. Don't really need the immune system right now. Don't need that.

Don't need the sex drive. There's no time for a boner. Let's just get all the energy to our legs. Let's get the hell out of here. And, and then the zebras get away and then they go back and then these hormones dial everything back down and they go back to like eating grass and relaxing. And, and that, and that was necessary for them to have that the problem with humans is that we can think so subjectively and about all of these big kind of subjective ideas.

And we can see so far into the future that we're setting off this stress response about our 401k. Wow. And it's never dialing down. That's so fucked up. So, so our dicks aren't working. Where our digestion system isn't working. Our immune systems are falling apart.

Fuck you, buddy. I do need a boner right now. And it's fucking everyone up and people just don't know it. They don't know why that's happening. I love that man. That's such a beautiful, that is so beautiful. I think there's something. So in the old days, you know, you would get terrified by this kind of, I don't know what

you'd call it. It feels like there's a little bit of like, it can seem a little cynical to imagine that really, you know, all you are is the, you know, various secretions that are being released from your brain. Yeah. Yeah. And then the activity happening in the synaptic cleft, a word I just learned in the last podcast. But, but then from another POV, it's really quite beautiful and comforting to know that

like, yeah, you just have, you know, your, your operating systems, maybe it's got a few bugs in it. And that's not a big deal. And there's, it's something that you can, it's interesting how the human brain by understanding the way it works can, from some meta perspective, heal itself just by understanding it, it's own principles that mindfulness, man. Yeah. It can change so much.

I think, I think that our, our non-conscious and our conscious brain are, are these different tools that are trying to communicate to one another. But the non-conscious is using this totally different language of like hormones and feelings and stuff to navigate behavior. And our consciousness is using this weird English stuff being like, why were you so stupid? Why didn't you pay that bill on time or whatever? And nothing's getting through. And it seems like there's something with psychedelics, with mindfulness, with meditation, with therapy,

where there's that connection starting to open up a little more. And they're kind of teaching each other a little bit, you know? Yeah. And when I, the last trip I took at the peak of the thing, there was just this like realization of just how much suffering is caused by identifying as a self. It seems to be like the nexus point of all suffering. And I certainly have heard that before in Buddhism, but I never really, at least it reminded me of like, whoa, it just seems like there's just a bundle of shit.

I'm clinging onto that. I've been calling who this is who I am when the reality is, you know, those, it's hard to explain, but you know, those moments on a powerful LSD trip where you managed to let go of that thing, trying to hold on to a sense of self. And there's that release and the kind of unitive consciousness. Have you ever had that before? I've done it more on DMT and on mushrooms. Now I can get myself into like a DMT space if I'm by myself meditating or I did them

in a float tank recently and, um, and was able to get myself there where I just completely like lose myself and it seems as if I'm in these different worlds and that you're kind of kaleidoscoped, if that's a word kaleidoscoped, you're kaleidoscoped if it's not a word, it's now a T shirt kaleidoscoped some kind of cyclops of the kaleidoscoped, but you're drifted. You're like pulled out to the point where whatever the boundary is that you identify as well. This is me shifts to wait, I think I'm the walls and the floor and the bathroom of this

RV. Like I don't know where my where I start and the rest of this where I stop and the rest of this starts. I've been on DMT many times where I've been like, wait, okay, you're, you're, you're just, you're a Shane that's on a couch right now, like you just smoked DMT, like I'm able to like eventually remind myself of that, but there's, but I, it's because I had completely lost sense of that entirely. Yeah.

That to me is the, I mean, I just can't think of a more blissful state and, you know, with this last trip I wasn't able to, or I was, I got it for milliseconds, but even those milliseconds were just so incredible. Those moments of just letting go and that to me is where my hope is for what happens when you die because, you know, sure, maybe you die hit, hit that wall of oblivion. No perceptual mechanisms. You go into what Richard Dawkins, have you ever heard what Richard Dawkins says death is?

Hmm. He probably. He says death is the anesthesia that saves us from the pain of infinity. I kind of enjoy that actually, but Dawkins can be a bit of a prick. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I very much enjoyed that. I love that a lot. I haven't heard that. But, but again, I don't subscribe to a lot of what Dawkins says. He does some amazing work though. It's just his delivery methods are not very engaging. He feels frustrated. I mean, I think when people feel like they've like found at least something that resembles

a concrete inarguable truth and then lots of people are attacking you all of the time. They have no idea what they're talking about. And the way they're attacking you is kind of illogical. I think, I think over time, especially if you're Richard Dawkins and maybe you already are a bit of a sour puss who knows. Over time, you're going to be like, fuck off. I don't feel like going through this again or maybe he likes it. I don't know.

But, but the, uh, the, to me, the idea that, all right, well, maybe in the last moments of a human's existence, you get to experience this kind of systemic shutdown where the thing that you had thought was you, the thing you were focused on, the thing that all of your attention was always on, which is whatever the nexus point of the self is suddenly that releases. And then you actually have maybe what is only a few moments or a millisecond of experiencing the reality of your situation as a being made of matter, which is that you really, there is no place where you stop and everything starts.

There's just an everythingness of which you're populating it is this cluster of atoms and neurons and pheromones or whatever the fuck it is. And, and it's like you're a cloud and death is just that simple release into the everythingness again. But I bet this is where we disagree, Shane, which is that I believe that consciousness is not a product of the body. Right. Yeah.

And you do. I do. Um, I mean, I'm, I'm trying to be more open about it for sure. I just did DMT last night and, and there was a voice. I don't normally, sometimes I get like straight on because usually it's just very confusing, but sometimes I get like little voices, um, that will just say something. And the voice kept on saying like, just be more open minded, just be more open minded, just be more open minded over and over again, because I was seeing all these different worlds

and stuff like that. And I thought, I saw, like I, I was seeing like exactly what you're describing. No doubt about it. I mean, my, my take on it is, I wonder if there is some neurologic basis for that, that, that you can kind of reason, uh, reason it down to, but, but, um, I mean, I've seen, I've seen exactly, and I'm less of a skeptic now than, than I probably ever have been in my life, but I also regarding death, I think something similar could happen, even if it is just within your head.

We were talking about last time we talked about, um, your brain running simulations within a matter of seconds. You can project like in these highly salient moments, say like you, uh, uh, you get shot or, or you do DMT and your brain tricks itself into thinking it's dying or ayahuasca or whatever. Yeah. And you can, you can, I've seen it. I've seen my life in like eight different variations, like flash, like the, my future

in eight different variations. And then at the same time, everything backwards from my life too, and then also imagining what happened before my life and, and then all of these different paths, all in like these seconds. So maybe when you die, you're able to see like all of the information or what would look like all of the information in your head just right before. And, and when you're like that, like I've had DMT trips that have felt like I was gone for like a hundred years or something like that.

Right. Um, and so maybe when you die, you, what you do is experience is the full on amount of that. And maybe it would feel like infinity and unfortunately, so maybe you can experience it. I got some backup for what you're saying from a much more intelligent, less woo wooey person than me. Nick Bostrom.

You know what this is? Oh no. He is, you would love it. He wrote a book called super intelligence, which is like the pathways that we might get to an AI or a biological super intelligence appearing on the planet. And so they know how quickly you probably even know this, how quickly, uh, I guess whatever we call the God, I just, someone's just describing this to me and I always forget it. What's happened because there's a shift in the electrical activity between two points

and two neuronal points or something, right? There's like a shift in like sodium something or I don't look, man, I'm not a neurologist. All right. No one thinks I am. Sorry guys. I'll never talk about neurology. Yeah. It's so hard.

It's so, it's so hard, but so, but they know basically, and I'm going to turn this into something a little more, um, I'm going to have to dumb this down because I'm dumb when it comes to this stuff, but basically they know how quickly thoughts move through the mind. So for lack of, cause I can't remember what he said it was. It's like 200 meters per second or something like that. That's how quickly we process information. So theoretically, if you could do full brain emulation and figure out a way to digitize

the human brain and then animate that digitized, perfectly digitized human brain using some as of yet non-existing technology, then if you could speed that brain up so that thoughts don't move at 200 meters per second, now they move at 400 meters per second, then that being sense of time would be half would slow down in half. It would be cut in half. And if you sped that up again, and then again, and then again, and then again, eventually that being sensation of time would be the way Boston puts it is, you could be sitting with this being and drop your teacup and that being could write a thesis, you know, read

a couple of books, go like do a million things and then pick your teacup up and give it to you because time would be moving so slowly because our sense of time is based on how quickly thoughts or our brain processes information. So who knows, maybe in an extinction event, that final thought or that speeds up so much. We just can't get past the speed of light. Our thoughts can't move faster. If we could speed up a human brain, the wall would be the speed of light, which means that if the dream is extinction, there's some last moment of self that is a result of some shifting

of the thought process and the human mind that appears to last for infinity, it's still not going to last forever because. Yeah, you can experience infinity, but only for about a second. That's weird, right? That's so weird, yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's what needs to be on a shirt. I think that, to me, one thing I think about all the time is just how subjective any perception of time is and time is so relative.

So like a second to us seems like nothing, like what could you possibly get done in a second to our reflexes and instinct is way too long. If you just stubbed your toe or put your hand on something burning or something like that, it doesn't have a whole second to sit around waiting to take action, you know, and think about just different species that interpret time differently or I like to think about like mayflies that last for like two, four days or whatever and like their perception of like it's still a full lifespan. We measure things in like terms of lifespan kind of because if you told a mayfly like,

hey, I'll give you 30 more days. They'd be like, what in the world? What would I have 30 more days? What would I do with that? There's no thank you. Can I opt out of that? I can't handle all that life. Yeah, I guess, you know, it does seem like consciousness and time are kind of interwoven

in some strange way, but I also think that if you were to like be able to DVR kind of the brain, like what you're talking about, all that happens in a second and then you were kind of able to make a make a TV show of it, like show the recording to us, I think it would take you like a hundred years to see what the brain's doing in like a couple of that was actually one of the interesting things. Boston was saying is like, you know, there's the idea of like, can we would there be a way to take the knowledge of a master pianist and transfer that into another person's brain and then they could play the piano and he said the problem with that is everybody's

brain is this fluctuation of energetic systems and it's all fluctuating differently. So for that to even work, you would need some kind of intermediary translator that could look at the way these like weird brainstorms are happening and that one person's brain convert that into the way your brain understands energetic shifts and for that to happen for that intermediary thing to exist, you might as well just create an AI and AI is going to exist before that because you'll understand and then maybe after that you'll be able to like shift information between brains. But the one thing that he like, well, I haven't finished the book yet, but it seems like the

one thing he's this is why I've been thinking lately and easily it's easy to shoot down. You're right. Right now, you're right. Anyone who like is have comes from a scientific perspective on this shit is right because what I'm talking about is not quantifiable yet, but I feel like they're going to figure out that consciousness is to human experience what wind is to the sails of a boat and that something about having this like specific type of consciousness is a signal and we have these antennas and we're receivers and that the moment that which if that were the case

and God knows it's the ultimate hippie dream and if that is the case, then we do have functional and we're immortal if that's the case or what or and we're not individuals were some energetic system that's being sort of temporarily captured through our own biomechanics or something like that. But what's curious about the idea to me is if they could quantify consciousness at being as being outside the body, then the quantification of consciousness and the invention of an AI would be the identical thing. You know, the two things would happen exactly at the same time because if that's the case

then building an AI was just really building a sale that can capture the energetic flow of the stuff. I was rambling about this to somebody and they were like, Oh, it's a Ouija board. You're talking about a Ouija board or some kind of digital technological Ouija board that like picks up on this system that we haven't identified yet. Who knows? What do you think? Well, I mean, I think that even if say there were this like consciousness going through

some like plane of existence or something like that that we are tapping into, then we're still having like a different perception of what that consciousness is. We're all interpreting it differently and that interpretation is in and of itself a different kind of consciousness that only belongs to us. So maybe we would just need a different word for it. Okay. Yeah, right. Don't call it, you're right, right, right.

It's like, yeah, because if it's the, you need the combination of the two things, right? You can't just have one. Like the two things have to meet. And there, there is, as you were talking about, you know, putting someone else's personality kind of or skills into your brain, it just kind of made me think of, they've done these studies that I'm going to butcher, but a lot of it's about the brain, the brain actually limiting resources to, to specific areas like, um, right, like MDMA shuts down blood flow in, in the amygdala and then delegates a lot of it to the prefrontal cortex for your higher

decision-making functions and stuff. And that's why it's good for PTSD. So because PTSD normally, this amygdala is like lighting up way too much and people are going panicking and they can't even think about it without, you know, sending themselves down this hole. So it shuts that down. And so they're able to like put themselves in kind of a little bit of a different personality. There's these weird electromagnetic, uh, I forget what they're called, but you can

basically put them on the surface of people's brains and, and this is going to sound a little scary and you can kind of zap them a little bit and it, it will just paralyze this little region of the brain for a little while and they've done all these experiments with them where I guess there's this part of the brain where if you shut it down, it inhibits more blood flow to this creative area of your brain and you can shut down this part of the brain and all of a sudden people can like draw better and like paint better. So sign me up. Maybe in the future you would be able to have some sort of thing that's like, I want like

measure, measure the kind of signals that that brain, how, how that, how that guy's brain is delegating his glucose and everything like that. And then just alter a few things just temporarily for five minutes. So I can get, it wouldn't be perfect. It wouldn't be anywhere near perfect, especially in the early stages of course, but maybe I could get like some rudimentary sense of, of, of how this person experiences like joy or sees, sees colors or, you know, something like that. I'm not sure.

It seems like Bostrom in this book, you gotta, it's a great Audible book too, because it feels like the narrator is a goddamn AI or something. Like it feels like some droning like AI is like, has written the book about itself. But I love audio books. They're the best. But he, the, like he, it seems like what he's saying is, you know, before we get to the point where we can do that kind of stuff, we're going to have an AI. So like preceding any kind of biological improvements that allow a person to be a, a, a

supreme intelligence, we may, for, for example, maybe we figure out just enough of that to make a person adept enough to understand how to create an artificial intelligence. So a precursor to a machine intelligence, it's going to be a little evolution in human intelligence, just enough to be able to admit, to look at the human brain and be like, oh, here's how it's working or get the inspiration or intuition or whatever to make the thing. But prior to a human mind being a super intelligence, a human will create a super intelligence and what Bostrom is saying and what, you know, many people are saying Elon Musk being one of them, uh, uh, is like, we better look the fuck out, man, because we

don't know what it's going to do. Right. And, and, and that's what the whole book is about. It's like, here are the pathways to it happening. Here's a timeline when it theoretically would happen, which for Bostrom, it seems like he's being very conservative in his estimates. It's like the last part of the century, but it's not like he's saying it's not going to happen.

He's just saying it's going to be 50 to 100 years from now. And more than likely it happens, uh, through machine intelligence, which anyway, that is very exciting to me. Um, but I wish it would happen sooner. Yeah, I, I want, I mean, I'm a transhumanist. I want to be a robot now. Um, oh, you mean you've become part of the satanic globalist agenda. Yeah.

Um, I, uh, I want to, so, um, I have, I have a more optimistic view of, of that when I hear people like, well, what if aliens come down this super intelligent species, they would have like Machiavecacu, um, talks about how, how they would just like pave right over us, suck us up for our son's energy or whatever, be on our way and just leave us, uh, uh, leave us to, uh, you know, die very quickly without a son. And, um, but I, I think that if you look at the history of life on earth as life becomes more intelligent as these brains get a little larger, as they seem to be doing more complicated things as humans tend to inform themselves more, it seems like we

actually expand our empathy. It seems like we expand our interests as well. Like even if you're diabolical about it, um, it's now, now we care about like what little insects are doing and, you know, people, people want to research. There's, there's, you know, animal rights people all over. There wasn't animal rights people 10,000 years ago. You know, I mean, we're not even a type one civilization according to that cartage of scale, and we already are scared about what we're going to do if we

infect Mars or some other planet with a disease from this planet. Like we are already having empathy for planets that don't even appear to have life on them. So what if that is the natural path of intelligence is that empathy also because empathy is just understanding. And so if it's more intelligent and it's seeking more and more inner understanding than why, I mean, I would say at the very, very least, um, aliens or robots or whatever would want to study us.

And the best way to study things is to do it in the least invasive way possible. I mean, scientists know that studying an animal in a lab is, is there's all sorts of problems with it. Ideally you're in the field watching how they actually normally behave. So maybe, maybe robots would just be taking a backseat and kind of enjoying the show a little bit. Maybe we, you know, the Douglas Adams thing about mice. No, he says they're the end part of the tentacles of interdimensional creatures

that like to study scientists that the mice are like entered into the tentacles of these beings. They're studying science. Yeah, they're like tentacles poking in the study. I love that. Yeah, he's cool, man. But that's fun. This idea of benevolent, the idea of intelligence being ultimately benevolent.

I love it, man. And, and, and, you know, the, uh, you know, like, or, or the idea that the way that the intelligent, we think we know the way that we believe a supreme intelligence or a super advanced intelligence alien, interdimensional, whatever you want to call it, as of yet undiscovered will reveal itself to us is hilarious because it's completely based on our own theoretically limited intelligence in comparison to that intelligence. So we have like basically the things going to pull up and on some cosmic driveway in

the form of these crafts or something. That's what many, many people think we, everything's mechanical. Even the, the, um, the idea of like a type two civilization using a Dyson sphere to control. Have you ever heard this before? Like, so it's like, uh, um, there's these different types that there's the cartage of came up with these different types of civilizations. Type one, type two, type three.

I think it ends at type three. Yeah. Type one is we're not even there yet. It's a planetary civilization fully using the energy of, of there. I, I've heard of, I've heard of that. So the Dyson sphere, I think it's a type two civilization, which is they've actually figured out a way to surround a star with these insane solar panels that then like take the energy of the star and then fuel everyone has unlimited resources.

Did you hear about that star that they found that they think might? It's got the most boring name too. It's like Ann's star or something, right? It's like, it's like fucking got alien machines around it. Like Judy star, really boring, but, uh, the, uh, but again, this is such a human idea, right? We'll build machines around the thing and it still involves like something pulling up and basically like a super advanced tractor trailer truck that

flies through the sky. And this is why one of the questions I wanted to ask you is as someone who do frequently consumes DMT and someone, even during this podcast, you talk about people give things, give a message coming in. Yeah. Who's it coming from? Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I, I think, I think when I was talking about before that are, that are

non-conscious and our consciousness speak all of these different languages and seem like very foreign to one another. I think that, um, I think that there's, there's worlds and universes built inside of our own mind. And I think that the, that the, that the world that the world of our, our brains, this perception is, I think it's to simplify things. I think it's very much like the movie inside out, inside of our brains. I think that's a nice little children's representation of, of exactly what's

going on. Do you, but do you use the term, is there a reason you say non-conscious instead of subconscious? Subconscious kind of makes it sound like a lesser, um, and, and consciousness is, is like such a small amount of what is going on in the brain. Um, probably, probably like 0.0001% of, of what the brain's actually doing is, is consciousness. So the non, so, so when you smoke DMT, you think that you are gaining access

to these kind of compartmentalized personalities that exist within your non-conscious self. Yeah. And I think it would seem like alien, like imagine that were true. Imagine if they did a follow-up to the movie inside out where the girl's an adult smokes DMT, goes down and meets, like it would, she'd come back and be saying the same, she'd be like, I saw these gods down there. And there's weird, like one of them was really sad and one of them was joyful

and one of them was angry. And there was all these weird worlds and, and all these different places in there. And, and I think that it would, um, I mean, it would sound very, very much like that. I think that, I mean, if you think about dreaming when I can have a dream tonight and, and you and 30 other people and, and some people I passed by on the interstate might all be sitting in a room that I constructed in my mind.

And I'm writing the script for you, doing an impersonation of you. That's perfect. That's tricking myself. And I don't even know that it's happening. And you're doing that in your sleep, like literally in your sleep. Yeah. And you wake up well rested, like your brain hasn't used that much energy to pull off all of that.

I've had it happen a few times in a dream where I've been talking to someone in the dream and it thought, wait, this is a fucking dream. Like, what, who am I talking to here? And then the next question is, well, okay, if you think that these, and, and again, I'm, I don't know. I don't, I don't know anyone can know yet, but the, uh, I'm curious what you think about it. When I smoked DMT last night and, and it's been like a few months and I did it.

The last two times I've done it, I've smoked DMT and I've been like, I just saw God, like no doubt about it. I'm a skeptical asshole and I just saw God. You know, it's a pragmatic term. But so a being says to you, be more open minded, right? And this being appears to have some personality. Did you see this being? I saw a bunch of different parallel universes all at once.

I saw like this kind of reality, uh, and they all had all of these different rules and laws and like there was one that was just like this weird collection of cylinders that was like building itself. And, and then I saw within all of that, I also saw like a dream, like a man just like going to work, getting home from, from work or whatever. And then all of a sudden it would, it would also just like flash. And then all of a sudden it would be that same man in a completely different reality, like showing me that there's just like these infinite amounts of

realities that are all happening at the exact same time. The man was showing you this. The thing, the thing was showing you that thing, that thing. You know, uh, I mean, I think it ultimately, it does matter if it's inside or outside, because if it, it's a different method of quantification. If it's outside, then if it's inside, if it's inside, we might look for it in some kind of fluctuation of energy and somewhat deep level. If it's outside, then the, the approach maybe is going to be different

to trying to quantify either way. It's a thing that should be a quantified. We should attempt to figure it out. I don't know how it's like that my mind keeps going back to it. Cause it's like, how do we quantify consciousness? And, and, and it's, you know, I know this is not, I'm not, I'm definitely not the first person to think that, but the benefit to, to the world would be so great if there was some way to actually like, if this is happening

inside of your mind, that you are coming into contact with a thing that is you, but isn't you, then you have to ask, all right, well, what is this thing? Does it have a mind? Does it have pieces of itself? Does it have a subconscious? Does my, do the beings in my subconscious have a subconscious? And do those beings have a subconscious? And does this create a kind of recursive Rick and Morty?

You had a wonderful episode about this, by the way. Does this create a recursive, never ending infinite? Oh God, those guys are so smart. But if you're, you know, it's, did you see the one I'm talking about where it's like, I saw them all, they go into Freddy Krueger's. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so good. Yeah, but if the, if the beings in your dreams have their own dreams and the beings in those dreams have their own dreams and you get this,

it's weird because it's like, it's kind of like turtles all the way down. It's also the problem. It goes the opposite way too. Like let's say we're simulations. Well, then what's simulating us, even if we were to prove that something was simulating us, there'd be nothing that we could prove that that thing wasn't itself being simulated by something else. So it goes in all directions.

All directions. Yeah. And that to me is that's where it's like, man, somebody out there, I don't give a fuck if we're just talking about shifts and glucose and amino acids and blood flow through the human brain or if we're talking about angels, either way, let's figure out what this is. And this is to me, one of the most, I mean, from a more intellectual, rather selfish perspective.

And I'm thrilled that people like Doblin are using MDMA to heal PTSD and they have a real logical pathway to use it to heal other things too. But I think another aspect of psychedelic research and the end of the prohibition on psychedelics is this thing here. Because man, if we can induce these states and people and try to figure out where the fuck is this coming from? Where is it in the mind? And what is it?

Like is it, it must be the quantum level, right? For something to be so detailed, accurate and infinite in a millisecond. It's got to be something happening in like as an as of yet undiscovered aspect of the human mind. Like what is doing that? Like what machine is running in there? Is there some processor we haven't found yet that exists in some quantum flux state?

I don't even know what quantum flux state means. Let's get in there, man. I mean, this is why all of this stuff is so very important, I think. And also we might, things might be easier than we realize. It might just be this little shift in perception of seeing just like the cliche with Galileo and understanding that the earth is revolving around. But so this guy, Daniel Tennant, talks about how Daniel Tennant, rather. Daniel Tennant is, he talks about how, so if you have a computer, this

interface looks as if there's lots of things going on at the exact same time. Like you're downloading this, you're watching this, you're changing the volume. You're double clicking, opening this folder. You're writing and playing music and all of these things are happening at the exact same time in the processor, but that's an illusion that computers do. It's actually taking things, it's like, we'll do the little bit of this, a little bit of this, a little bit of this, and then put it all together. So it looks like all of these things are happening at the same time, rather

than linearly. He thinks that our brains are doing the exact opposite things. He thinks all of these things in the brain are happening all at the same time and that consciousness is the illusion that makes us think that all of the stuff happening in the brain is happening in this very kind of logical, like one thought is happening in our brain at a time. And how could that be the case? As I'm saying these words, I'm thinking of a whole bunch of other words

and other directions I can go with this conversation. And I'm not even realizing I'm moving my hands all about for no reason. I don't even know why I'm not even thinking about it. It's like it's a sandwich, right? It's like it's not, it's stacked on top of itself and it's all happening at once. Yeah. Now I, when I interviewed Ram Das once and I was talking about how like people like him seemed to, by the way, it's 431.

Do you have a little bit of time? Yeah, I'm in no hurry. I was talking to him about how people like him seem to have jumped off this diving board, right? They've just gone right into whatever you want to call that state. You know, they have gone fully in and I don't know if he would even describe himself as being fully in, but man, he's like, he's definitely done a lot of practice.

And when you're around him, this is a different type of human. No question about it. So I was interviewing him and I said, you know, people like me, it feels like we, you know, we build little homes at the edge of the diving board and they're always looking over at where you're at and people like you are at, but never quite go there. I'm not wearing robes, man. I'm, you know, maybe now that I've been, now that I've been a burner, I will,

but like, like, uh, but, um, they're out and about though. I'm not sure if only to live in a world where I was acceptable wear robes, but I guess that's what it dresses. But that's a whole different podcast. The, uh, the, uh, and carry purses too. I'm a man. I want to carry a purse and put on makeup.

That's what we get to at the end of all this. We just realized we want to dress like women, but the point of everything we just talked about, dude, we're just ladies, we're just ladies trapped in these dumb man costume. I'm a lady. I like that. Oh my God. You know what?

Let's go. Core is here. Let's see if she'll let us wear her clothes. My girlfriend's here. Let's wrap it up. Shane, um, uh, but actually to, to, to finish my point, what he said was, uh, he's like, there's no diving board. He's like, you, you, you are creating the illusion of these different like things

that happen to a person like pre, whatever you want to call it, pre woke and then woke, pre realized and realized. He said, actually it's all happening at the exact same time. There is no, there, the whole, we're, we're looking at an entire like spectrum of self and you've sort of made a decision where you want to land on that self. Right now we have identified with our bodies, we have identified with our minds, our names, our social security numbers, but underneath that is this thing you're calling the non-conscious, right?

But it's still cooking down there. It's just for this particular period in human evolution, we don't get to hang out down there because, you know, it, there's too many smoke alarms that get set off down there. Right. Yeah. And I mean, I think, I think we figure out exactly. I mean, that's another problem with calling it sub is that it makes it seem

like lower, it's like another basement or something. I think that, I think that consciousness resides like in the middle of all of this stuff coming in from all around. The non-conscious is the meat of it, just pumping in and gaining information from the center. That is, well, even that's conscious consciousness is like the nucleus of this like, I don't even know. I mean, it's just consciousness is like some sort of part of a tool for it.

I just like the idea that consciousness is the core of the thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's my thinking. But then it's like, well, then you're thinking of consciousness as the center of everything, which is classic egocentrism, which we can't escape from.

Well, not if there's a center of consciousness that is some connected, super conscious. This could go on forever. Why are we not wearing lipstick? I mean, I think the point of this and with different levels is we should all try on like different levels of perception and try it. Like nicer shoes. Like maybe some high heels.

I mean, I just started wearing boots. It's basically high heels. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe a little eye shadow. Some this kind of some like classy jewelry. Like, yeah, maybe some pantyhose, you know, just try on different things. Be comfortable.

And that is truly the seat of the soul. My soul's in pantyhose. Shane, you should tell me about this tour and tell people how they can come see this show. It's around a 65 city tour. I have a feeling it's going to be more like 70 when the dust clears at the time of this recording, we're still putting together a few of the dates, but they should mostly be up if you see any gaps in dates, there are probably ones that I'm filling in, but they should mostly be up by the time you're hearing this.

If you go to Shane Moss, M-A-U-S-S dot com and and check it out. It'll be all pretty self-explanatory from my website that my friend Ramin Nasir made for me and made my, he made me adult coloring books based on my show. But anyway, 65 city tour. I, it would mean a lot to me if he came out and checked it out. I think it's, it's the best work I've done in my career so far. So I'm quite proud of it. I can't wait to see it.

Is it going to be in LA? I've done it in LA a couple of times. Maybe on the backside of it, I'll come back and do it. Okay, cool. I'm definitely coming to that. It's so funding out with you, man. It's fun to hang out with you. I wish we did this more often.

Now I'm going to miss you. You're going away forever, but thank you so much. Thank you. We'll do this again soon. That was Shane Moss, everybody. Don't forget to go to his website. Catch him live out there on the road. Much thanks to Casper for sponsoring this episode.

Go to Casper.com, Ford slash family hour, use offer code family hour. And you will get $50 towards a brand new mattress. All right, folks, here's a performer that I think you're going to enjoy. His name is Beda. You can find out more about him by going to b i r a m u s i c dot com. You can stream all his music there for free. He's going to be performing live at the legendary hotel cafe in Hollywood on Tuesday, September 27th and Tuesday, October 11th.

So here's his new track, burn. For the fire in here, we'll take them too. If you don't believe me, you might when it comes to you. Yeah. Don't deny you may persuade you to wait. I promise in the end there will be no other way. Got to let it burn. Burn into the dust.

Still there's nothing left but deep in bones. Got to let it burn. Burn away the hurt. Kiss the flame and brace the insides. Got to find out. Down into the pain. Feel his only teeth and bones that remain. Then rise again from the cinders and suck your brain.

Yeah. Don't deny you may persuade you to wait. I promise in the end there will be no other way. Burn. Burn into the dust. Still there's nothing left but deep in bones. Got to let it burn. Burn away the hurt.

Kiss the flame and brace the inferno. Got to let it burn. Yeah. Oh. Got to, got to, got to let it burn. Burn. Burn. Yeah.

Got to let it burn. Still there's nothing left but deep in bones. Got to let it burn. Kiss the flame and brace the inferno. Got to let it burn. Burn into the dust. Still there's nothing left but deep in bones. Got to let it burn.

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