Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Wayne Coyne

Episode Date: November 10, 2017

A glorious and inspirational conversation about love and reality with the mystical leader of The Flaming Lips, Wayne Coyne. https://art19.com/shows/duncan-trussell-family-hour/episodes/d735a359-0ab8-483e-b7e0-e6b4e3519801

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I can't believe this actually happened. This is all because of my dear friend Shelby who's a high ranking member of the secret society that I'm lucky enough to be a part of, the Enchanted Booty Forest. If not for him, I wouldn't have had the surreal experience of sitting in a tiny house on the outskirts of Nashville with a lead singer of the flaming lips. An experience so surreal and odd that it made me start thinking that perhaps Elon Musk and Nick Bostrom are correct that we exist in some simulated universe. Some kind of heaven realm.

Holy shit. Wang coin from the flaming lips. It actually happened. I can't believe it. This must be paradise. We're going to dive right into this glorious miraculous episode but first some quick business. Have you ever wondered what it might be like to make love upon the warm soft stomach of a giant celestial puppy?

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of that, friends. I'm just happy that you are listening to the podcast and letting us spend some time together in the strange, beautiful waters of the World Wide Web. So without further ado, everyone, please welcome to the Dunkin' Trussell Family Hour podcast, the lead singer of the Flaming Lips, Wayne Coyne. Wayne Coyne, welcome to the show. Oh wow, here we are. I mean, we have to say that we're at like a really expensive hotel that you snuck your

... Did you sneak them in or are you allowed to have the dogs? They let the dogs in. We go. Hotels are cool these days because you get to have your dogs and they don't care and yeah. We're in an expensive hotel in Nashville, Tennessee and we're looking out at the other side. We can't see the sunset but we're seeing the residue because we're way up high 14th floor

in the shiny buildings downtown. It's beautiful. And I think it's important to say how I ended up in this hotel. Well, I wasn't going to bring it up. It's embarrassing but I think we need to say it. I'm a professional. Yes. You were so ... I was unprofessional.

I was on high on ... No, I was not. Wayne Coyne. Wayne Coyne. No. You can't do that. We've got to ... You were so high on that. It was not because of that though. It was ... Right.

It was an acceptable accident. You were traveling all day and ... I left my charger at Will Oldham's house. So it's this crazy convergence which is that ... These are the kinds of things ... I'm sure this is for you. The life that you must have, I think, must be a series of odd synchronicities and oddness but for me to be in a tiny house outside of Nashville and to be sitting in the tiny house with Wayne Coyne, that's enough to send many a man tumbling off the precipice of sanity. You could go nuts.

Now you say tiny house as if the world knows what that is. A tiny house, it's not just actually a tiny house, it's a thing. Yeah. Right. It's a movement. It's this idea that we don't need to live in some kind of ... We don't need all this space. We're in this bucket, two beds, two dogs.

I know. I agree. But I thought it was quite small. Oh, it was ... It was a tiny house. If you had ... Which you don't have, which we'll talk about in a minute, but if you had your girlfriend there with you, that seems like it's too small for a dude and his girlfriend to be in there at the same time. No, you couldn't live with a family.

That's a single man sort of domain. Am I right? You're writing a manifesto in that thing. You go there to write a manifesto. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And even that would be uncomfortable.

Even writing a manifesto in there, there's not much of a desk. You'd have to figure out ... You'd have to sit in bed with a lap desk, I guess. It was tiny. Yeah. But maybe it's great and it's affordable and it's simple and for ... I mean, I thought it was interesting. It just seemed ... Even for me and you, after all, I was like, hey, man, this is kind of like being in a jail of some kind, and I'm stuck with you in my jail cell, which isn't

that bad. How do you think I felt, man? It was ... So not only ... But we had our dogs. And you had your dogs. They were wonderful. I might say Wayne Coyne, Wayne, takes this heroic leap into pure unknowingness, drives to it, gums to a tiny house.

No, no, it's not pure unknowing. I mean, I know you kind of. Yes. Yeah. And you're traveling across country. Yes. I mean, you're not a complete stranger or anything. We've been trying to do this for a long time, and then when I do finally get there, you've

left the cord at Will's house. Is that ... That's exactly what happened. But we started this conversation for you, pressed the button, and then you slightly turned into this other radio personality guy. Am I doing that? Did my personality change? No, not at all.

Really? Not at all. I need to know things like that. Which I'm like, come on. Step it up a little more. You want me to be more, but ... No. But we were like, I was asked, have you ever been to therapy, and you said, wait a minute.

Hold on. Let me press the button. Yeah. Yeah. Before you even answered. I went to therapy a little bit, but I don't go regularly. I think you should. It's a great thing to do, but I don't do it.

Yeah. Do you go to therapy? No, but I get to talk about myself all the time to strangers who are not that invested in ... You know what I mean? I think if you didn't have that, and you weren't asked about things in your life, and you didn't get to talk about them, and they were heavy things, you would want to have someone. I think doing interviews, as you probably ... Maybe you were about to say this. In a sense, it has a therapeutic.

Absolutely. Articulating is different than thinking, and writing, and even talking. Articulating this speed by which we're answering each other. Yes. We're not really thinking about what we're going to say, but perhaps we should. But we don't. No. It's coming out quicker than we're even thinking it, and that has some kind of ... There is

something in that therapeutic, that's therapeutic to your being, that you're this flow of whatever. Yes. I'm in therapy with you right now. Oh, great. In a sense. You're in it with me. Well, I think I'm more in it with you. You are a healing force.

Thank you. You are. You seem to have this ... Anyone who's been to your shows knows that this thing happens in there, which we talked about last night. We did. We want to get back into that. Okay. But it's not just your shows.

As I was hanging out with you, and I realized, not only are you not ... You don't seem even slightly annoyed that I'm unable to record this podcast. You spend at least an hour with me, and we've gotten this great conversation, but the feeling ... It was a great conversation. I mean, you're an interesting, cool guy. I mean, I've been around you other times, and we haven't talked that much, but we've talked enough and done things that we weren't thinking, oh, this is for a podcast. Very much just hanging out with you, and you traveled across country, and you talked with

... Well, you've got to ... I mean, I was ready to hear your stories anyway. Yeah, but they've heard my stories. We want to hear about you, and when I'm ... What the feeling I get from you is that when people get around you, you start reconfiguring them in a kind of sweet, positive way, but also a kind of wild way, and it's beautiful, but it's beautiful, and it's healing, but it's not what you would necessarily call therapy. Oh, I see. Okay.

Yeah. Do you get this feeling that ... Do you feel ... I mean, it sounds so schlocky when I say it, but when you're putting all this energy out in the world, is that the intention behind it? Well, I mean, when I was with you last night, I was utterly fascinated with the things you'd say and then what it would lead to, and I would be asking you questions like, oh my God, this is really your life. We talked about your girlfriend that you had, and then your separation and all that.

Yes. To talk to someone, which you're like this, that just is being honest right there. They don't have an answer that they want to give. They haven't thought about it a billion times. They haven't asked about it a billion times, and you're just saying it. I mean, I think it's fascinating. It's fun. Yeah.

It's a joy. I mean, it's a thrill. I mean, you know, I think that's why you have such a great show. Oh, thanks, Wayne. I think there's something that's pulling the truth and an urgency out of people, and so yeah. Oh, God, that's amazing. I mean, I felt the same way around you.

I just felt like when you left, I didn't want you to leave, and then I thought, oh, of course, you don't want them to leave. It's Wayne Coyne. He's a rock star. It's a flaming lips. Everyone wants him to stay. So yeah, and we talked about so many cool things last night, but I sure would love to circle back to a few of them, and it kind of goes back to what I was saying before, which

is that a lot of my friends and my experience when I go to a flaming lip show, it can be a transformative experience. And I was, I think last night, I was kind of trying to fish out of you some intention or some right, some like, like, like a mission statement, right? Yeah, yeah. It felt like you were telling me, no, that's not necessarily well, I mean, you know, all these this thing that we do now as the flaming up as a show, you know, it's a it's a it's a long, long, you know, evolution of little ideas put together, things that, you know,

you would have tried that failed things that you didn't know you were doing at work accidentally and all those little things being that we get to kind of have, you know, it's not control, but it's like, we're the ones creating the show, whatever, and using all those to their most effective thing, you know, and having a slight confidence that I think this would work. And the audience is ready to listen to us and pay attention to us and be with us here. If we do these things, they're gonna, it's gonna be fun and we're all gonna be in it together and then we can have these, you know, these emotional things with the songs and

singing together and all that. But that's not a mission, you know what I mean? Right. I think it's more, you know, there's a certain thing that we like to do and then it just works out that there's a certain thing that the audience likes and those can be kind of together. But it's not, it wouldn't be a mission, you know, in that way. We wouldn't have ever thought, this is what we want to say to the world, I think.

When we're doing it, it feels like we're so lucky we get to sing our songs to people, you know, and I say it still all the time, it's like, you know, people who really know music and people, you know, a lot of people have musical minds that aren't musicians, you know, they're, they're musical anyway, even though they're not pursuing music. What, what did that look like? And they can tell, they can tell, I can't really sing, you know, they're like, you're you know, you're, and I'm like, I know, I'm not really a singer, but I'm, but I'm allowed to sing, you know, these flaming lip songs and I, and I'm just like the luckiest person

ever in that way, because, you know, the audience is like, we know you can't sing, but there's something that allows you to be a singer and I could be a singer for no other, anything ever, but I can sing flaming lip songs. And that's where I sort of feel like this is, it's a special like, man, I got a special duty here, you know, yeah, yeah, it's wonderful. It's wonderful that people allow me, let me sing to them, you know, well, we love it. And I love it too.

I mean, you know, it's such a great thing. But, you know, a lot, you know, a lot of people are singers and they think, oh, I can really sing, but I never think that that's nuts, man, never in a million years would I thought that when you think about yourself, you're like, well, I'm not a singer. I am not a singer. Like I'm not a singer. I'm not a singer in the way somebody who doesn't have a spine is not a jogger. I can't.

Well, I think in time, if you would, if you, you know, if you tried and tried, you might find a way to say, oh, if I sing in this way, it works for me, which is what I do. You know, I'm not, I don't have, I can't do very much, but I can do this one area and doing my thing. It's, you know, it's passable. It's I mean, it works for people that like our music for sure. Right. But yeah, it's beautiful.

You're a singer. I mean, if you're not a singer, God, all of it, we're doomed. Well, I mean, I think there's there's probably a, you know, a description or or an identity that comes with someone that you think, well, he's standing up there on a stage singing. He must be like kind of a show off or this confidence, you know, and I could see where most singers in the world, you know, are probably exactly that, not in a bad way, but they feel like, oh, you want to hear me sing because I'm a good

singer. Well, I'm not like that. You know, I came into it, not really starting as a singer, but then singing and like, well, punk rock stuff, you know, right? Well, you know, John Leiden doesn't sing that well. And, you know, Anthony Kitas from Chili Peppers doesn't sing that. Well, I can do it or Henry Rollins, you know, those types of singers.

And then I wanted to start to do music that was more emotional. And then it's like, but you can't really sing. I'm like, I know, but I want to, you know, and that's where I'm at still. I mean, I still think of those guys in some ways as my heroes, even the guy from Durand Durand. What's his, what's his name? You know, like these guys who can't really sing, but they decided I'm going to do it anyway.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm just going to do it. Yeah. I'm going to jump out there and make a thing regardless of whatever the problem is. But, you know, but music is sacred ground in some way, you know, and, you know, to go out there and say, well, you're listening and I'm I'm the guy, you know, you're going to listen to me tonight. That's why I think it's different at a Flaming Nip Show, because it really isn't,

you know, we we never go out there and be like, you're the audience. No, you know, we're us. It's like, we're all in this together. It's participatory for sure. And that's that that is the absolute truth from the heart of our minds that we try to say, you know, it's not about it's not about us because we're we're horrible introverts. We talked about that last night.

Yes. Like, ooh, you know, we're not we're not saying, oh, pay attention to us. We know that that's the that's the deal. You know, you're there and you're going to watch us do our thing, but it's not. We need your attention to make us feel good about ourselves. It's just a different trip. But I don't know if it comes across that way. I mean, I could see where years ago you could say, go to see Beyonce and then

next night see the flaming lips. You'd be like nothing very similar. Right. Yeah, sure. Now you you might go see Beyonce one night and see the flaming lips next night and say, well, there's some similarities. You know, it's a it's a big show. We we we make it seem like at the end of the every song, you know, you're

going to clap and this is going to be a big a big deal. You're the audience where the where the stars and, you know, but underneath all that, that's there's nothing those two are not anything alike. You know, Beyonce knows I got the butt, I got the hair, I've got the voice. Yeah, right, right. It's going to work. Yeah, right. And then she's got lasers and stuff, too.

Yeah, and you just go blammo. Yeah, you're like, I'm done. Yeah, you win. Absolutely. I want to be in the audience and I want you. I've never been to Beyonce. I've never been to one of her shows. It's amazing.

You just said, yeah. But but the flaming lips are, you know, we're even though those those same things may happen. We're never coming across like where the lips and you're just no, no, it doesn't feel like that. No, he feels like a ritual. It feels like we get to do this thing together. Yeah, there's it to me.

There's a it feels religious in the good sense of the word. I agree. We always say it's like it's like a religious cartoon. You know, it's like it doesn't it's not there's nothing overly heavy, even though it's heavy, but it's all in music and it's all in a show. It's right. You know, we're not really we're not trying to change you. You're here.

You're at our show. You're the perfect, wonderful person anyway. There's nothing for us to change about you. You're here. You know, but I agree with you and we're getting that same thing when we're playing, you know, when it's working, we all feel like, oh, man, we've created this thing together. Yeah, because without the audience's energy and that love, it really is love.

You know, when people are paying attention to each other and urging each other to do do this thing, do this marvelous thing. I mean, that's, you know, and to go up there and to to know, oh, we're purposely going to do this thing. So we feel this thing and it works. It's it's wonderful. It's love. It is.

It is absolutely channeling love. It's like, I mean, most performers, in a sense, do. I mean, sure, you've got to see people. It's not it's not something we do that nobody else does, but it is that. What do you think love is? Love, so that's a that's that's it's not tough to define because we all know what it is. It's tough to put it into words, you know, but it is. It's like you just, you know, you like someone, you want someone, you want this

thing, and then it slips over into a deeper category. Yeah. Unknowingly, it's become part of you. You know, I always say, like, if you love someone, you're doing that for you. You know, liking them is for them, you know, but if you love them, it's for you because it gets to be in a special part of your mind. Yeah. And you know, you want to come, you want to put it in your mind.

So it's like, oh, it's so special, even though it's probably, you know, a selfish thing or whatever. But you know, we all know people like that. It's like, you know, I love them, but I don't like them. Right. Yes. You know, yeah, sometimes your relatives or whoever, you know, you love them, but you don't like them. But there's other people that, you know, you like them, but you don't really love them, you know. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.

But can you love everyone? No, I don't. I don't. Why? Why could you? I mean, why? You know, I mean, I think you could. Well, I think you could only it would only really be love if you had experiences with them. And that's why I think it when I say it goes into this other category, I don't think it's you doing it. I think there's there's a certain, you know,

you know, amount that you start smelling and seeing and experiencing and thinking about and considering. And then that plump, you know, it's a but what do you what do you call the the amount once the amount is so much? I know what you mean. It's like a scale. It goes, yeah. And then it plumps and you don't know it. But suddenly they're part of what you think about. They're part of these millions of things that you're able to think about.

And if something happened to them, it would hurt you. Their pain is your pain then. But if you if you don't really know someone, you know, them being here, not being here, them being in pain or not being in pain. We have, you know, empathy and, you know, we understand their thing. But you know, it's not really affecting you. You're you're drinking your coffee, reading your, you know, your your internet. So whatever it is you're doing without being that affected.

Yeah, sure. But when something has plopped into the love category, you know, it's it is you. You know, their pain is your pain. Their love is their joy is your joy. Can it go back once it plumps into love? Of course. Yeah. So you can fall out of love. Yeah, luckily, yeah.

Otherwise, it would be, you know, I mean, when my when my mother died, I mean, it wasn't like a sudden thing. But it's, you know, it it climaxes into like a very sad, devastating thing. But she, you know, didn't want us to be sad. She's like, look, I don't be sad for a while. Don't be sad the rest of your life. You had a wonderful life. Don't worry about it.

And in time, you know, the sadness turns to just a profound, great memory or whatever. And you can talk about it without it killing you, which is good, you know. Otherwise, you know, your animals die. It's devastating. It's devastating. You don't want to live. But you do heartbreak. Yeah, it's horrible.

You're saying if you you're saying if love didn't dissipate, that we would be in a constant state of heartbreak. Yeah, because there's too many too many things die and too many things reject you and too many things. You weren't right about what you thought was happening or whatever. You know, it'd just be too difficult. And yeah, let's talk about heartbreak. Let's do.

That was an evil laugh. No, it wasn't. It was. I noticed that last night. No. Oh, man, I've never allowed that laugh to come out in any other time. Now I'm in the woods, which is where you were. You know, people don't realize I took a Uber. The Uber driver was worried about me.

He was he asked if you if you are you so you want me to drop you off. And I was like, no, I'm not sure. But but I don't have a choice. You know, and he was he was very kind and caring. I'm really concerned because who wouldn't be? He drove. Well, once he saw you, too, that raised it even more. Yeah, before then, he was just worried about how far we were.

And he saw you. Oh, Jesus, did you show you want me to leave you and this guy with a beard wanders out of a tiny house? It gives me this suspicious look. Yeah. So heartbreak. Because we kind of we were kind of like skirting around this last night and heartbreak is for a lot of people, the worst thing that can happen outside of, you know, physical injury, maybe worse than physical injury to some people, for sure.

I'd depend on the injury. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And but but heartbreak is is considered by a lot of my teachers one of the most sacred things that can happen to you. Because when a heartbreak happens, this is actually contact with reality that the feeling of heartbreak, the feeling of your identity being sort of overcome by this great sense. Well, I mean, I suppose that that can be true. I mean, I think.

I mean, when people are sensitive, most people that, you know, do music or do art or something, you know, they have a sensitivity that's, you know, something affects them. And if they don't have some agitation or some some vehicle by which they get to play with it, then it and it's not anybody's in stock for a good or bad. It's just, you know, the situation I was with you, we were looking out the window and we posted the sunset is amazing.

You know, we we're standing here with some strangers. Some people probably look at it and not think it's amazing or boring. I mean, it is like whatever just buildings do, you know, and we look at it and it's like, oh, my God. Yeah. And we think, what a what a great thing that we noticed this this beauty. Yeah, we're standing here and it's so beautiful. Yeah. But to another normal person that's not sensitive in the same way we are. It's like, whatever, it's dinner time. Let's go.

You know what I mean? It's not a moment of of, wow, the glorious thing. Right. So it's our fault. You know, whatever your your sensitivity is, it's your dilemma to deal with it. Yeah. And when you if you're sensitive and you have that deep, deep love that's guiding you and all that and it goes away. I mean, you're you're in deep trouble.

You know, if the. Yeah, you're in trouble, but you're in deep trouble. If the love is based on another person. No, even even animals and things. I mean, you know, I know. But no, I'm saying you're the the love that kind of love, which is that I love my poodle. What people can't see, but the poodle is right here. And we're both able to pet you.

What's your poodle's name? Gatsby. Gatsby. And he sat in your lap and he loves you and he wants to be near you. But but the the the idea is and I really want to know your opinion about this is love localized. If love is localized, in other words, I have to have this poodle, a person, a sunset, a thing, an event to trigger the the beautiful tilting of the scales into the universe of love. Then I think we're in a desperately rough place.

But what do you what's the word localized? What do you mean? So I mean, the idea is many times people will say, I am in love with you. Right. And what they really mean is you are giving me love, kind of like what you were saying before, this this somewhat selfish. I'm essentially I know, I know, I don't know about that. Love for me. No, I don't. I mean, that's a, you know, that's an individual category.

You know, like I could see with some people, if they get attention, you know, they think, oh, this is this must mean that they're, you know, that they're in love with me or something. And then that maybe trigger something in them. And that's, you know, it's nobody's fault. But that can, you know, those things get misread all the time, you know. I think it's best to be in love with someone that you already know.

And it's been a it's been like getting into some really cold water or hot water, whatever it is that you wanted to call it. But you've gotten used to the first foot being in and then you dip a leg in it. You get used to that, you know, and you're getting used to it and you're you're getting more trust built up and more comfort built up and more, you know, just more used to the way that you are and they are. Yes. And then perhaps before you know it, you're all the way in. And this is good to be in here, you know.

But if you're if you're falling in love with people that you don't really know and you're just going in and I don't know them, here we go. It's it's going to be rough. That's it. I mean, maybe maybe there are times when that it doesn't turn out rough. But I mean, that's but this is all that don't this. It's down to your personality. I mean, your personality may be that's that just as the way you are. And you can't, you know, there's deep things that happen within us

that we don't want to control. We have no control over it, you know, and so let it, you know, and that's right. But if I let me ask, if I eradicated all life on earth and and and in the in the in the universe, somehow I had a button and I pressed it. Right. And all sentient life in the earth I've caused to blink out of existence. Right. Would there still be love? Well, you mean like inside of you or or just in the universe? Once the universe is all obliterated, does love is love an essence?

Yes, we can't see or smell. That's right. No, love is love is a belief. A love is a belief. That's why when people say, do I believe in UFOs? And I'm like, well, I don't really believe in anything that can exist without me believing in it. Like UFOs, if they exist, they don't need me to believe in them. Right. They're flying around there doing fine.

You know, Santa Claus, if he exists, I don't need to believe in him. He's delivering toys. But if I don't believe in love, which is just a little thing inside my mind, if I don't believe it, then it's not there, you know. So I save belief for things that wouldn't exist like trust. Like, you know, these types of these things are only they're they're just done with your mind. There can't be done without you being connected to your mind.

There's that that doesn't make any sense. It's like your mind's the record player. Love is the record. The two have to come together. If one's not there, you're not going to have. Well, you know, you I have trees in my yard and I do sometimes go up and say, I love this tree. Yeah. But I know the tree doesn't love me.

It's a tree, you know, and I and I think that's even better. You know, I love the Beatles, but the Beatles. But that's to me, that's what love is. It's like that I love you. I would I'm glad that you don't have to have emotions and you don't have to have ups and downs. You don't have to be happy or sad. You can just be you and I love you and I don't want by loving you.

I don't want to burden you, you know. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm not I. The love is for your life to be better and happier and better because we cross paths or something like that. Yes. Yeah, sure. But but I want to talk about this idea that he doesn't love you because the way I have I have been taught and I I love to believe it. Right.

Believe, I guess, right. Alex here. But I love to believe that everything is love. Everything's made of love and the human condition is for me. I think that devalues what love is then, you know, to me, love is it's a motherfucker and it's and it's hard work and it's trying and trying and trying again and seeing seeing the reason why, as opposed to the reason why not. It's not. Oh, it's it's just here.

I guess I just don't see it or it's here and I don't care. I don't that tree loves me, but I got shit to do today. And that dog loves me, but I got to do today. It's not. I mean, I feel like it's a it's it's a powerful thing that you're you're doing all the time. You're trying to make this love and be with this love and see what comes of this love that you that you want to be part of your cultivating love. Yeah. And and you're you're reaping the rewards of it.

And you get the, you know, the the bad parts of it as well. But I mean, if you're lucky, the love that you create is nourishing you, which is what that's the greatest human achievement ever is this thing that I need. I can make it myself, you know, and you don't blame anybody and you don't you don't wait for nobody. It's something you can do. You can love the tree. The tree doesn't have to love you. I got you. That's beautiful.

Well, you're like it's more like you're a fountain of love. Inside of you is a fountain that can start fountaining out. Well, because giving love is like it, you know, it's something that you love to do. You know, if you love to do it, it's not like you're like being selfless. Oh, I'm sacrificed myself. I'm loving because it I want to. That's my favorite thing in the world. And when it when it nourishes the entity or the creature or the person, whatever it is that you're loving, it even works better.

It's healing. And you get you're getting off on it. They're getting off on it. Life is is great. Love's the most healing thing. I were wondering why outside of bandages and penis going. Well, all those things are probably they're probably invented because of love. Oh, I love and caring. Yes. Yes. Right. Right.

It's the progenitive force. It's where all human life comes from. I mean, obviously, we're not some of us are humping not for love. But it's the progenitive force. And well, I mean, obviously, it's I mean, there is something. It is something that but I would I don't think it exists out there without our minds and our bodies having some attachment to each other. I think it's something in there.

Right. Well, there's a right. You're I know what you're saying. It's this there's clearly there must be some two things coming together for this love thing to happen. And I want to talk about the devaluing. Yes. Of love by the concept being the entire you. This is the idea. The entire universe is made of love.

You are made of love. And when you are falling in love, you're not falling in love. You're remembering your true identity. Right. That's the concept. Right. Well, I mean, I don't I've never thought of it like that. I guess, in a sense, you know, I don't I mean, to me that when I say devaluing, it's like, oh, I just love everybody. And it's like, well, we really don't we don't know everybody.

We don't, you know, it can only be I guess that's what I'm saying. When it plops from being, oh, I'm I like this and I'm interested in this. And now I'm obsessed with it. Yes, all these things. They're short of love, but you know, when you tell someone that you love them, there's always that way of saying, I love you, man. Yeah. And we do. Yes, I mean, we could say it to each other.

Yeah, I love you, man. I love you. But I don't know you that well. And if if you, you know, died tonight, I would it would be wow, it's just with him. It'd be it'd be a bummer. But it wouldn't be the same as if someone in my family or someone I've known for a long, long time, deeply. And that's just the way it is. You know, I would I would know.

I wish they could see me crying right now. I wish I was filming this so they could see the hot tears running down my cheeks. I know. But but that's something that we don't get to control is what I would say. You know, that that that overwhelming feeling that's attached to us. OK, so that isn't true. Well, like when we say, you know, I love everybody, we know it's not it's not true. You know, it doesn't work that way because, you know,

people are going to die in the streets tonight of Nashville, where we're at. And we're not going to care about on one level. You can't love everyone's personality. You wouldn't. But this brings us to the other thing we were talking about last night, which is this idea of the there being some kind of membrane or a transcendental connective mechanism that allows for synchronicity to happen.

Right. And so this thing is our true identity. Underneath all the personality and all the all the stuff, there is like a matrix of consciousness. And see, this is I mean, I understand people like to believe that. Yes, but you don't believe that. Well, no, I mean, because I mean, the same, it's like me and you. I didn't know you.

I didn't feel like when we finally met each other or whatever in real life that I've known you my whole existence, Duncan. I really started to know you when Shelby and I Shelby talked about us connecting. I texted you. That was one level. We, you know, we'd have jokes back and forth. Yes. Another level would send pictures back and forth.

Yes. It's another level. By the time we meet each other, I kind of know you, but I didn't feel like I knew you in a cosmic way all along. I didn't even think about you until Shelby and said, connect with him. And now that you've made that you've tried and I've tried, we've probably texted each other a thousand times without really thinking about it. Yes. I was like, hey, Duncan, I send you a picture and you send me the best. Yeah. So that's not just there.

You made it happen. And I made it. Sure. You made it happen every time we try, every time we text, every time we think about each other and say, I'm going to let them know. I was thinking about them. We're building up a thing that could be like love. It's we care about each other. Yes. That's not just there. I'm not just running into someone saying, brother, I don't know you,

but I love you. I'm saying I'm beginning to know you. I'm beginning to love you. You know, after last night, I'm beginning to not love you. No, I'm not. No, no, this is the this is the risks we take with deeper with deep love. But that's my feeling of it. It's like that you're trying and I'm trying and we're not drawn to it in the dark.

We we saw the movie The Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Yes. That movie, you know, where they're they're obsessed with this image and they're they want to go to the mountain where the UFOs are going or whatever. That's to me, that's not that's not happening like with the human race. We don't have a true answer that we're just always trying to get to. You know, we're always answering questions or always of new answers. And that answer leads to a new understanding of, you know, things

that you thought you didn't understand, you know, to me, so I don't feel like there's a flow going that we all dip our foot into. And finally, we feel at home to me. I don't I don't feel that way. Wow. OK, I love it. But we then this is where we have a fundamental disagreement. And because I do feel I do get that sense. I get this feeling that there is a we are all part of this river of love. And that and certainly I am not going around to people being like, I love you, brother.

Right. But I think that if I were to work on myself enough, if I spent some time like in a deep practice, then I could anything that crossed the in front of me, I think that I could love it. And I but what but what would be the way that you loved it by just something with your your mind or I mean, what would be the I mean, you know, love is fine, you know, but you have to do. There has to be some action connected to it. You know, it's like I love my dog, but I forgot to feed it and it died.

That's not love. If you love your dog, you would you would be asking it every 10 minutes. Are you hungry? Because I can I'm feeding you. Yes, I want to feed you. Yeah. That's not love. Well, there's action that would go along with it, too. But well, but if someone is passing in front of you, there there can't be love without some knowing their personality. No, without you, it has to be you have to be in it.

You can't just it's not love if it's like, well, I just saw you and I love you. It's like, well, OK, you know, but you don't know anything about me. And you don't, you know, OK. But I which is fine. It's better than saying, I mean, I would rather it just be like indifference, you know, I don't love you and I don't hate you. But we can meet in this middle ground of being, you know, positive about each other and wishing each other well. That's great.

Yeah, you would you would rather have an indifference. So you would rather like an optimistic, well wishing indifference. Not like, I don't know you and fuck you. You know, that's not, you know, it's like if if, you know, if something happened to you, I saw you on the street, I would go, hey, are you all right? Can I help you? I don't know what I'm getting into. You know, you might be trying to trick me. I don't know. But my instinct would be, I don't know anybody seems like

he needs help and I would say, hey, can I help you? Yeah, yeah, sure. That's that's better than saying, I don't know you fuck you, buddy. Good luck. And maybe they're both in difference. But one is I don't know you, but I'm willing to. Take a chance if you need help. Optimistic indifference. Yeah. Hey, I'll take it. That's pretty good. I mean, hey, that's cool. You know, I get it. I mean, again, I can only speak

in and I can only speak as someone who believes in UFOs, because not that I believe in UFOs, but your dog. You don't know if you could tell your dog growled when when you said UFOs. Yeah, no, he doesn't like me talking about it. Because when when no one's around, I just sit and talk to my dogs about UFOs and they get really no, here he goes again. Well, again, it's like, you know, I. Sure, you know, I did if the if the universe is infinite,

as far as we're concerned. Sure. And, you know, this world that we live in, it turned out this way. There probably could be other worlds. And if those entities, whatever they are, found a way to fly around and stuff that maybe they exist and maybe they would want to visit here. But to me, all that seems like, man, that is just so far fetched. I'm not going to spend very much of my mind, even considering it.

I would rather spend all of my mind, as much as I can, in the real world that I know. I know these people have problems. I know these people need some help. I know these people need some help and not care if the UFOs are there. Good. They don't need our help. You're here. You're a realist. You're a pragmatic realist. Well, when it comes to those sorts of things. Yeah.

I mean, being a man imaginative and creative and all that, that's just your work. That's fun. But it's, you know, but I but I'm older than you as well. You know what I mean? And maybe by my time, you're 56. You might say, yeah, I used to believe in UFOs, but now I don't. If they're there, fine. Well, the UFO thing, you know, is what I meant to say is UFO, I know people, these Ramdoss people,

who encountered this being that when you got around him, it was it was the most transformative thing you've ever experienced. Because when you got around him, you did know him and he knew you and he would tell you things about yourself that you have never told anyone. And it wasn't like he was saying, like, I know about you to run some power game on you. Right. Yeah. It was that it was like an instantaneous

connective sense of like, I've known this guy for a long time. And this person is looking at you. Not like I love you in the way a parent loves you. But they're they're saying, well, this this is an entity from beyond. They're goo, you know, probably Baba, you know, this being popped into time and like influence this connected to the UFOs. Oh, I'm just saying, I know I know people who've seen UFOs and I know people who've seen people who,

theoretically, can throw out unconditional love to all those in front of them. And that being said, I have never been able to achieve that state. And I haven't necessarily been in the presence of someone who's putting that out there. So it's similar to UFOs. I've met people who've swear to God they saw a thing up in the fucking sky. And I believe them. I mean, and to them, perhaps it really is magic in a UFO. But I mean, I would say, well, you mean scientifically or you've proven it's UFO.

I mean, that's a different thing. And so we're, you know, I'm all for look, if you want to believe in Santa Claus, I believe in him with you because there's there's there's great, you know, there's great things in in that that belief. And that makes me think this and it drives me to, you know, to do this or whatever. But, you know, it's like if you really if you really think they're real, then the investigator, let's find out. But that's, you know, that's not part of the fun, you know,

that's not that much fun to really go and see. But it just doesn't seem that likely that a UFO would have lights on it. Well, as you would see them, why do they need lights? They've been traveling through the endless universe. Yeah. Lights on an airplane aren't there so they can see, you know, it's only there so other people can see them. No, it's that that whole the humanizing of of alien technology is hilarious. It's just I don't take it serious.

I take it as kind of like it's fun to talk about it. Well, this was we I did this show with Rogan a long time ago on sci-fi. And we went to all these UFO people and we went to every weird thing. We went squatting. We went with big people, squatting for big foot. You ever gone squatting? No, see, I mean, I mean, big foot doesn't interest me as much in the big picture. I mean, I could imagine, you know, there's maybe there's some creature out there.

I mean, I would feel more sorry for big foot, you know, than I do. Don't feel sorry for big foot, Wayne. That's the title of this episode I can see now, you know, don't feel sorry for big foot. He's big stinky dude, man. He'll bum he'll bum out your camping trip. He he big foot. So with these squats, so what's it called? Confirmation by.

So you you run into people looking for big foot. And I'll tell you, here's what big foot does. If big foot likes you, he will put a feather in the path in the forest. So if you're walking down the forest and you see a feather, it means that big foot's been checking you out. And he's like, oh, he's cool. And he puts a feather there. And so big foot likes to make structures in the forest.

So if you see sticks that have been that have fallen, then that's been constructed by big foot. Big foot can turn himself into a frog. So if you hear, see, that that throws up a red flag for me. See, anything that can transform itself into another entity, another, you know, shape or whatever. I'm like, well, I mean, I think it's a wonderful story. I think it's a great imaginative metaphor for some sense.

That's right. But if you're saying it's a metaphor, I say, well, it is a great metaphor. They don't think it's for them, it's real. But what they're doing is a really fascinating thing, which is that we have a thing that does not exist. Yes. And what we've done is we've taken the natural world and we've picked variables that occur in the natural world.

But again, I say it devalues the bizarre, wonderful, insane things that really do exist that you don't even bother to go look for. Right. How many times, you know, going through the Internet, do you see that some weird, one-eyed, clear fish that we've never seen before? It's real. Yes. We don't have to make up a story. It's real. I'm still looking for big foot. Fish is cool. Looking for big foot.

That's hilarious. Yeah, you've got to think 50 times weirder than big foot. And you're still looking for this thing that doesn't exist. Like, but it's like, are you really interested in how wonderful and unknown the world is? Or are you just, I'm going to find big foot, fucking kick his ass. You know what I mean? It's like, to me, it's easy to say, yeah, I'm searching for the beautiful and you would find it.

You would find it in the ants crawling on the sidewalk down there. You'd find it in everything. But why do we have to go search for big foot in the middle of nowhere when the trees that you're walking through are better than big foot? The squirrels that are running around are your feet are better than big already. And you just want to find big foot. So I that's my feeling. It'd be amazing if we found big foot and realized big foot was looking

for another kind of big foot. It's an endless quest. But it'd be horrible. But I got to. So again, I would say, you know, it devalues all the great mysterious things that are here right now that we don't bother to search for because there's not a story and it doesn't elicit this. Dude, I'm, you know, I'm on a higher plane because I believe there's big foot and UFOs.

And, you know, it's like, no, it's like if they if they're there, they're fine without me. I don't need to go search for them. And this is actually I got to say, man, this is like if of all the people that I would think UFOs would have attempted to contact. Right. I could see you being one of them. And I like I wanted to ask you these years of touring and these years of being in this incredibly rare form of existence,

which is to be a rock star in this amazing band. Surely you have seen some supernatural happenings out there on the road. Is there never been a moment where you're like, what the fuck? Luckily, we've been going for a long, long time. Yes, you know, and the very first time that we took my my dad's old giant Plymouth with the with the trailer on the back, the very first time we went to LA, we were on the border right as Arizona turns into California.

And there was this bizarrely strange, blobby thing hovering way up in the dark sky. And for some reason, we were getting gas for doing something. And we marveled at this thing by ourselves on the side of the road. Like, what is that? Yeah, convinced. Well, you know, maybe this is a UFO or whatever. Yeah, because we don't know what it is. It's a UFO to us. Yeah.

And we thought about it, thought about it. You know, back then there wasn't an Internet, but you'd look at pictures and you'd see if anybody had said anything about it. Time went by and well, nothing was said about it. 2002, we were going to rehearsals with Beck. We're walking through a little part of where I forget is Southern LA through where the studio was. We're going and we stop on a bridge and this same thing.

Is in the sky and we all stop and Beck stopped with us. I remember us thinking, we're going to die. A UFO is going to explode over our heads. We're going to die with Beck right on this bridge. Cool. He was included. I think he started to run away like, fuck it, I'm not dying with flaming lips. But anyway, this thing and Michael and I were the only ones. We had seen the thing, you know, 25 years earlier.

We remembered that's that thing that we saw. And it was coming. We didn't really know what it was. It didn't end up exploding and killing us. But we went to rehearsal and we wondered, what was it? So the next day on the front of the page of USA Today is a picture of this thing. And it's a missile that's being tested way out 300 miles off the coast. But it's so big of a tale and so tall that we're in the dark.

And its reflection is still in the light that the sun is getting. You know, we're in the dark, but it's so far. Yeah, yeah. And it looks like it's just sitting there, but kind of moving and just a missile. Twenty five years later, what we thought was UFO because of the sustained curiosity, we found out it was just a missile being tested. No aliens, no, but still. What a fascinating, insane, cool thing.

Yeah, that this this and it's still fascinating. And I'm relieved that it wasn't UFO. Now I have some explanation. Oh, I know what that is. That's cool. Why are you relieved? Because it's it's a mystery that I thought, well, what is that? Why did we see it? No one knows that that is. Well, people see it all the time.

They just don't remark about it because it's normal to them. If you live out there, you see them. Oh, they're testing a missile out there. No big deal. Night after night, touring night after night, right, running into so every part of the entire spectrum of humanity. No, not really. No. You mean like people you mean like a truck stops or people are shows and all this

traveling, right? You've never once crossed paths with a being or a group of people. You're thought, whoa, these people are kind of enlightened or this seems like some kind of advanced person. You've never like it just feels like with a no, no. I mean, I mean, I mean, we run into people all the time, but we think or man, they're they're cool, they're smart and they're man. They're they're but not like they're from outer space.

You've never had any kind of contact with anything or you're like, I don't know, man, I feel like night after night, I'm going on stage. I'm Wayne Coyne. I'm going on stage. I'm getting in a ball. I'm rolling out into the audience. I mean, I from what I've read, you know, you don't take psychedelics. And you've never you know, I've taken a few things.

I mean, but it doesn't it doesn't agree with me. I get too worried and too paranoid and too. Yeah, sure. Too. I lose too much of my responsibility. Somewhere in the course of the touring in there, I think I would start getting a little wobbly up in the. No, no, you wouldn't. No, you did. You'd be fun. You'd like it. It's it's not that it's not like that.

I mean, it's not like that to us. We get to play our music and never found yourself like like you. Have you ever struggled? You've never struggled with some kind of like Messiah complex or some sense of if this is happening to me. No, no, no, no, I mean, not, you know, not since I've been like more than eight years old or something. You know what I mean? I was like, no. I mean, I'm not being out there in the world.

I mean, we're we want to play our music. I mean, we want to visit places we want to, you know, we want people to come to our shows. They're not just drawn to us. I mean, we we put out records. We advertise. We make up, you know, we we say, hey, we're here. Yeah, you like us. Got you. It's not the other way around. Gotcha. You know, we're not just there and everybody shows up magically.

That's incredible, man. I love it. You this is amazing. You are such a focus. But I think that's great. I think that's the way it should be. You know, I mean. Well, I think that's why you get to be what you are, is because you've maintained this state of equanimity.

But you have maintained balance. Well, well, that's thank you for saying that. I still think it's I think that's better that we're all in it together. I'm not trying to say, you know, what I do is more important than you. It's just like, man, you need to be entertained just like I do. We'll entertain you tonight. Yeah, one night it can be somebody else. Yeah, it can be Beyonce or Fugazi or whoever you like.

You know, let's do it, you know, go see their movie, go see their band. I'm just here tonight and it's great. I don't I don't need to be a messiah or anything. You know, I can be the messiah tonight and tomorrow night. Beyonce's but can be the messiah. That sounds like a great world. That's exactly the world I want to be. I know, I think we're already in that world.

You know, we are in that world. There's a new title for the for the podcast. Beyonce's but isn't the messiah is the new messiah. Beyonce's but is the new messiah for tonight. For tonight. OK, wait, let's cut because we have two great titles. One of them is don't feel sorry for Bigfoot. The other is Beyonce's but is the messiah.

We're going to have to do a vote on this. Yeah, yeah, Beyonce's but is the new messiah for tonight. See, I think that makes it a little bit. It's important, but, you know, we'll wake up and there'll be another one tomorrow. You know, I mean, my my if I have an overall theory of life is that, you know, everything that we do is is like a meal, you know. You, you know, you can't read about a meal. You people like to do that, but only because it's leading to the meal.

You know, you can't read. You can't look at pictures of a meal and be, oh, I've done it. You know, you can't. There's it has to be the real thing. Right. But there's a lot of things in life that we don't know that we don't know. Oh, it's got to be the real thing. You know, so you have to it's like seeing Beyonce's but is like a meal. It's going to be good tonight, but you're going to wake up tomorrow.

You're going to be hungry tomorrow. You can't just eat once and now I'm done. You have to eat again. And if you eat the same thing over and over, you might get curious about other things you might eat. Why not? It's wonderful, you know, or accidentally find something else. But for now, the meal you're having right now. Is the greatest meal you're ever going to have to me when sometimes

when I get to go to sleep and you know you're tired, but you're aware enough that you're falling asleep. Yes. It's the greatest sleep ever. Yes. And you know, you're going to do it tomorrow night and the next night. And if you're lucky for the next hundred years or whatever. But if you don't, if that meal is just I'm eating it just to fucking get done with my shit and get on with it. If I'm sleeping just to wake up and get back to my shit.

And if I'm spending time with you, but it's just to get back to my shit, it's like you're on the you're already you're already being buried, brother. This meal, this time with you, this is my I'm this is my greatest meal. Yeah. And that I think is the truth, you know, you can only eat one meal at a time. You can only sleep in one bed at a time. You know, Wayne, but unlike you, I mean, you maybe have sex with several women at one time. I don't know, not me. I've never had that's another podcast.

That is Wayne tonight. You're the Messiah for me, man. And you for me and you for me. No, and you for me right now, I agree. Beautiful. That is, that's the truth. And that's that's that's that's all we need. Thank you so much. Men, you I see why people like your podcast.

Oh, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening, everybody. A big thank you to Wayne Coyne, The Flaming Lips and Shelby for making that happen. Also, big thanks to Casper.com for sponsoring this episode. Remember, if you go to Casper.com, four slash family hour, you'll get $50 towards a brand new mattress. If you enjoyed this episode, won't you please give us a nice rating on iTunes and subscribe to us.

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