Dungeons and Daddies - The Peach Pit (Season 3 After Show)

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

The Dads sit down to discuss the final episode of The Peachyville Horror and look back on the journey of utilizing a different system. They discuss favorite moments from the season and hint at what's to come in season four!Maxton Waller also stops by to discuss the doo-wop-ification of A Hole in the Stars (sung in the finale by Elsa J.), the original ideation of this season's theme, and the adventure of taking on Big Shane Silva.Season four will be coming at you beginning February 10th, but in the meantime the Patreon will be bustling. We've got some awesome bonus content planned for you all, including behind the scenes process videos, more games, and a check in on the pets in the daddies family. So stay tuned, folks!This episode contains Profanity.Support the show on Patreon!Get merch and more at our website!Follow us on Bluesky @dungeonsanddads!Check out the subreddit!DM is Will Campos Kelsey Grammar is Matt Arnold Francis Farnsworth is Anthony BurchTrudy Trout is Beth May Blake Lively is Freddie Wong Theme song is “A Hole in the Stars” by Maxton WallerAnnissa Omran is our Content ProducerAshley Nicollette is our Community ManagerKortney Terry is our Community CoordinatorCindy Denton is our Merch ManagerEster Ellis is our Lead EditorTravis Reaves, Omar Romolino, and Brian Fernandes provide Additional EditingCover art and episode art by Alex Moore (@notanotheralex)Get in contact: https://www.dungeonsanddaddies.com/contactThe story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this production are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, and products is intended or should be inferred. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What you're about to hear is the after show we've done for every season where we look back at the season we've just wrapped up, reminisce, just really chat about things, plot, character, all the juicy details, answer some listener questions as well. Now, mind you, we've done an after show for every episode of Dungeons and Daddies. That's one of the many things our Patreon supporters get access to, but at the end of every season, we do a little peek behind the curtain for all you casual podcast listeners. So you can get a sense of what treasures lie beyond the dreaded paywall erected at patreon.com slash dungeons and dads. That's what you're about to hear. But let me do some housekeeping real quick. We return February 10th for the premiere of season four.

Anthony will ascend once again to the gilded DM throne as Will Reed joins us lowly players. We're also back to 5E, utilizing the dark matter sci-fi expansion by Mage Hand Press. and we will be playing grandparents. As for the Patreon, don't think you're getting off easy. That's right, I'm assigning you over the holidays content, Patreon content, plenty of it. On the Patreon this week, the Hamburg live show. You can hear wildlife all around you,

basic, furious grunts, and surprisingly articulate profanity. Oh, oh. The visitor center stands before you, the nexus of the park connecting all the major attractions. Posters plastered around the center advertised the elusive elder brain, the stunning solar, and the terrifying tear-skew, tarasque. Any D&D heads now you pronounce that? Tarasque. And you didn't go with Tarasic Park?

Yeah. Fuck! And coming up, tier lists, the video. We do four tier lists. My favorite? Tearing out the hottest U.S. presidents. Andrew Johnson's good job. Yeah, no.

He's the worst. He sucks. It's not happening. How come Matt gets to put his politics in it? But I can't object to Andrew Jackson. Graham might be our first shit. Grant's pretty hot. Grant might be our first get down, Mr. President.

Grand's pretty good looking. Still craving Will's DM flavor, we play Shadow Dark, a punishing perma death dungeon crawler with for the first time ever a live 2D map. Beth Anthony and I roll up level zero characters and are thrown into a meat grinder of a dungeon. You see water flowing into this chamber from the south. I see that Beth is also, or Uthraug is also heading in. What are you doing, S.A.? I'm hanging back.

I'm going to see how this plays out, dog. Okay. And I'm going to just slowly back towards the drain behind you. I hope there's nothing down there. I hope, gee, you guys go ahead. I'll watch the back. Yeah, I got bad news for you. You're on the right side of the frame and the camera's moving to the right,

but we can't have to see you anything to the front of you. Beth is going to teach us how to juggle. That's going to be a video. I walk you through our tech details for how we record the podcast while Matt walks you through

his infamous board game wall. That's another video. Plenty of delights to be found. Patreon.com slash Dungeons and Dads. Enough yapping. Please enjoy the Peach Pit Season 3. Dungeons and Daddies is a rowdy, horny, violent podcast for grown-ups.

Content warnings can be found in the description. One last time. Boom, weep, whee, whew, burn out. Wee, ma'am, boom, we, whin, um, we, whin, as we go on, friends forever. Did they play that? And that's it. We're all dying. Oh.

Yeah. You tried so hard. We partied too hard at graduation. It got so hard. It didn't even matter. B.B. Milton, I think we're going to have quite a long time to figure. Boiling oceans. Oh, no.

It's really slow. and we can feel every part of it. Hey, guys, this one's going on the main feed, so can we please make a fucking good impression for the main view audience? Can we all lock in? Welcome to the Peach Pit. This is the Dungeons and Daddy

season three after show hosted by me, Will Camrose, for the last time. And normally it's a Patreon only kind of thing. But now we give you a little taste. We give you just a taste. It's our generosity and not us wanting to take a week off for a holiday.

This is where we talk about the show that we do. just talked about an episode, but now the season's over. So once again, this shall be where we discuss the season as a whole. The entire adventure. A hole, if you will. Speaking of holes. Speaking of holes. In stars,

we got the guy who wrote that song right here. So the first thing we're going to do, we're going to fucking jump in and talk about the theme song. Everybody, please give a round of applause to Maxton Waller. I have a soundboard actually thing for that. Oh. I didn't hear it, Fred. Well, you'll have your headphones on.

Nobody has headphones on. It sounded great, though. Thank you. Keep doing it. Keep doing it since I was going to hear it. Yeah, it just goes. All right, cool. That means nothing to me.

Hi, Max. How are you? Hey, I'm great. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for joining us. People love this theme song. And then people, I'm like, I was so fucking hyped for the 1950s remix of this theme song.

And we haven't really got a chance to talk about it publicly yet. So can you specifically, I'm curious how you came up with the lyrics for the song. Yeah. The vibe we kind of locked in early. We threw a lot of tonal reference. 1550 stuff to you. And the reason I want to know about the lyrics specifically from my perspective is that

I don't think a lot of people realize this, but like there was no hole in the stars in the show until you came up with that in the lyrics. And then I was like, that's fucking cool as hell. And then so then I kind of fit it into the show because I was like I couldn't get that idea out of my head. So I want to know where the hole in the stars came from. Oh, thanks, dude.

Yeah, I mean, not to be too dark, but it's about like mental health and recovery and addiction struggles. I was telling Matt and Freddie this when We did the Nailhouse live stream a couple weeks ago. It's like, of the theme songs, it's like to me, the most personal. Oh, interesting. Okay.

One. And I wrote it. As a whole. Yeah, as a whole. Yeah. Being a whole myself, right? No, I'm something of a whole myself. Yeah. I wrote the whole thing, actually.

So basically that. Yeah, it was like a kind of challenging time. And I just started writing. And it was funny because you had reached out about season three and you given me some kind of prompts. And you were like, yeah, no theremin, though. Oh, yeah. That was one of the, like, we're like, we're doing this mid-century modern kind of vibe.

You just bought four off of eBay. Oh, man. Actually, our friend Aaron, our mutual friend Aaron, came over with a theramine. And you were like, I was like, it's time to theremin this. And then Will was like, by the way, no theremin. Oh, okay, well, season four is just there. It's honestly, it's sci-fi, so, yeah. That's good, because I still have it.

stay in my house, I think. And then it was funny because it's like some days you, I mean, I'm sure you guys are all artists you can relate. There's like days that you feel really excited to get out and create and days you don't. And I was kind of like fast approaching the time where I really needed to start writing the song. I was like not in a good place.

And I was like, you know what? Can I swear? Yeah. I was like, fuck it. I'm going to. This is a Christian podcast. I was like, fuck it. I'm going to write about what's going on right now.

And so I did. and I don't know I mean maybe there's kind of this tacit agreement with you guys about like there aren't too many lyrical changes I feel like that happened there's one I can think of in the season two theme but in this one I was like

I'm just gonna see how you guys feel about it and you're like this is great and I was like okay cool and you do have like this weird throughout the seasons like Nostradamus effect where you are predicting what is going on but also affected by it before it happens seemingly It's kind of eerie.

It's really fucked up. I feel like the tone of the season's not settled until we hear the song. I agree with that. The theme song profoundly affected. Really? Originally my concept of it, it was like, okay, there's this Project Heartland. I think it was just going to be like, oh, they made a deal with a god to win World War II, and now the god is collecting its debts.

Like, that was my original idea. So all of the birthing stuff, like mother as the villain, I think that was all influenced by like the mother, mother fear me in the song and all that. Like, that was all started seeping into my brain as that was going on. What's funny, and it correct me if I'm wrong, but like there is an episode that Will almost ended with and you look up and you see nothing but a hole in the stars. And then I think it got cut. I think we did that at some point. That's the sort of move I would do, I think. I mean, to your point, Beth, like I do that to myself too. Oh, really? Yeah, like, because music is a way that I deal with things. And so it's like sometimes I'll write things before I'm fully aware of how I'm feeling about it. And then it kind comes out in lyric or song form. And then later I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that's exactly how. was feeling in that moment, but I may not have really known it. That's so interesting. Yeah, I mean, I guess when you're grooving, it's kind of like a

self-hypnosis in a way sometimes. Yeah, the unconscious or whatever. Yeah. So, when I heard the first version of the 50s version, because we knew pretty much from the jump was like, oh, we got to do like a 50s do-wop thing, like an actual for the last one. So we just kind of told you like, yeah, that's the vibe.

Just go cook. Yeah. And then from the first draft of it, I just gassed when I heard it. So can you just walk us through the It's so fucking good. I just heard it for the first time during this listen, and it's real fucking good. Thanks, dude. Thank you.

Yeah, you'd reached out and you said 50s duop. And I was like, okay, I just wanted to clarify, are we doing, is it going to sonically be 50s duop or just in terms of the production, like the instruments and the writing, I guess? And you were like, yeah, modern feel, sorry, modern sound duop feel. Yeah. And you had specified that you wanted to do female vocals, female sounding vocals in it.

And I, honest to God, I had missed that in the first email. So I started writing and I started singing over it. And I was like, I don't think I should sing this one. And then I went back to your email to email you to say, should I get a different singer? And it was like, and obviously we want a female singer. And I was like, oh, okay, that worked out great. And so I call my friend Eric Lee, who's actually the guy who mixed it and engineered the vocal sessions. and he is a really insanely talented vocal producer,

like somebody who can really hear somebody recording singing and pick out exactly what needs to be adjusted, where, etc. I was like, I know he knows tons of singers, so I'm just going to reach out to him, and he introduced me to her. The artist's name is Elsa J. And she actually, before this, has never recorded a song. Which is fucking crazy.

Not even on the notes. app. Well, she recorded some... Like 10 voice memos, but that's it. As far as I know, she sent me, like, one voice memo of her singing over the instrumental that I had sent her. Yeah. And I was like, can I just, like, export this to Spotify? And she was like, absolutely not. It was crazy good. It was crazy good. We showed up. You know this, ready? Like, when you're in a session with somebody who hasn't done a lot of recording, it's always timing. Timing is always the thing that you're running up against. Yeah. She was just locked in from the second that there's a process when you start putting vocals down for people who are not familiar with doing it where you realize you're like hold on am i singing an eighth note is that hitting just before the beat and you're literally are you start to hyper focus like where's the beat yeah because they you realize a lot of music is like oh yeah they're hitting it just before the one or whether and you're like oh i've never really thought too hard about this yeah until this moment when i'm seeing my waveform show up on the yeah just a natural gift that like some people have and it was totally that right

away. That's great. I mean, her voice is like magnetic. Yeah, she's a can. Like, it's just, yeah, it's incredible. Yeah. Crazy good singer. I think we did like, uh, three takes of like the lead part and then we laid in some harmonies. And then there was a couple notes that we had to address. So we went back and did one more session. And then that was it. I mean, the one session, the return session, I think we did one take and I was there. So it was just mind blowing. And it was one of those things where it's like, okay, Eric told me. He was like, she's never recorded anything before he's like, but I know she's going to knock it out of the park. And I was like, okay, like, it was so fucking cool.

Yeah, it was just right away, just so magical, you know. I've got a quick question for you, Max. What excites you more, coming up with a new theme for the season or, like, finding its end of season perversion? Oh, gosh. Okay, coming up with a new theme for the season is more challenging, but probably more rewarding in the sense of like going from nothing to something. Yeah.

And then the end of season thing is less challenging. challenging because the lyrics already written. It's just a different type of reward because it's like, oh, wow. And every time it happens, I'm like, it's kind of this forced time of reflection on like all of you guys and what you've done and just, I don't know, I'm just so

fucking proud of you guys. I'm like psyched that I get to be on this roller coaster. We do pay Baxter. They need to say that, actually. That's actually a big part of the fee. I wanted to ask about, so the one difference between the, I'm obviously the arrangement But there's also a new bridge that you added for the new ones. Talk to me about that.

Because this is the first time that I think there's been more lyrics in that. Was it just like, oh, it feels like it needs this in this version? Or like, what was the thought behind it? Yeah, doop needs a bridge. You know, it's got to have something. It's like a very classic song structure. I didn't want to do another solo because I was like, that's a guitar solo and that's like boomer shit.

So I was like, no, we're not doing that. You also don't get a lot in doo-wop. Of guitar solos, yeah. I do love the little kind of guitar riffs in it. Like they kind of like under her vocals is like a cool little model. little modern, yeah. You get boys laying down licks. Licks, but no tasty licks. The

guitar solo era was more of a 70s thing, yeah, or 60s, 70s thing, yeah. Yeah, that's the, like, modern element, I guess you could say, because you're right. Like, guitar back in the day was, like, mostly a rhythm instrument. Dude, it's so crazy. It's so crazy to, like, look at some of these videos of the sessions back in the day. And they're like,

check out this crazy look. It's like, whoa! You see what this guy, this cat's laying down some heat. You hear this? Hey, Jerry, listen to this. And it's just like, Boa, bu, bum.

Whoa! And he does that right at the end of the phrase. Whoa. And the next time, he does something a little different. What? No click track, too. No clicks, dude.

Just like shredding. Just do a little, just a little, be, bo, bo, bo, and everybody's so locked in and so, like, tight together. And they probably had to spend a lot of time rehearsing. I mean, they had different.

And they're all smoking cigarettes. Oh, yeah. They're all in there sucking down tobacco. Yeah, there's like a cigarette on every fader on the mixing board. Oh, my God, the guy's moving the little levers and shit on the fader with the cigarette in his fingers, dude. That's the sound that's missing. 20 ashtrays. That's the difference in modern music.

It's all zinned out now, dude. What do you mean? Everybody's explain. Everybody's on zin, you can hear it. Yeah. Everyone's drinking zinfiddle? Taylor's Swiss's last album, she's packed four zins under her gums, and that's why she sounds the way she does. I heard that too, actually.

Yeah. That's why she has such a sharp electric sound. She's in it? Travis Kelsey told me that, actually. I forgot that you knew them. I'm going to see how many buzzwords I can fit in this. We're really going to hammer that algorithm. Speaking of old school recording techniques and smoking,

I did want to also take a second to talk about your other song contribution to this season, which was the Big Shane Silver song. We've talked a little bit about already. Yeah, Beth's question, but what was more exciting? This dumb theme song or the great Big Shane Silva? That was probably the funnest one. I think, in terms of just like, I was laughing the whole time I was doing it because I was like, what the fuck is my life right now? It's kind of like the fetch quest thing where it's like, here's a prompt, like, okay, let's see what happens, you know?

I mean, like, it was just for me, it was like, we should do this and then Freddie wrote the lyrics and then I got the demo track for me and I was like, this is fucking great. I love this. How's that feel, Will? In many ways, Will, you're like the ultimate producer. You just sort of lay back and that'd be great. I talked to Freddy about this before, but I try to at least once per song have my Rick Rubin telling Jason to fucking make the beginning of 99 problems like a cappella. Like he's in a little clip when he's like getting a haircut or whatever.

He's like, you should do it like this. Yeah, yeah. That's what I was trying to do one of those, which for this one that I do, I think my favorite note I've ever given on one of your songs was because you also had the exact same note at the same time, which was we were listening to the song. We're like, it needs something. It needs something right here. And then like we're both texting and then two texts show up at the same time, which was like, What about, like, the sound of a horse galloping away? He's like, yeah, boy!

Yeah, I just, like, dug deep into the sound effects library for that one. I was, like, obviously, whip cracks. Well, because I went and I listened to Lauren Green. So all I did was, like, this is maybe one of the, like, what do you want to say? Like, upsides of, like, having a hyperfixation thing. It's like, I was able to just listen to Lauren Green's album for, like, 24 hours straight, essentially. And I was like, this is, I know exactly. It was wild.

It was really wild. Which ones did you listen to? Which one did you? Oh, the songs from the Ponderosa? Welcome the Ponderosa one. Just on repeat. And then, like, Ringo was a good reference. And then also Bonanza, you know?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, it's so funny. Because if you listen to it, right, that is what we know as, like, Western music. But there's nothing really Western happening in it except for fucking horse gallops and whip cracks. Yeah. It's just classical pop arrangements from the 50s. Yeah, yeah. It's like a Canadian dude.

with like a really stern voice and then like a bunch of like you said classical pop instruments you know so. We should bring back horse gallop and woodcracks into pop music these days. I want to see that chart of horse sound effects and music over time.

Yes. Like horse related sound effects. It just looks like this. I don't think there's a bump though when you got minimum wage yawks right. You remember that one? I don't know that one. They might be giants.

Oh okay well there you go. A little bump there. It was a little bit sound effect. It drew from the cowboy's sound effect. library. Oh, so season four is going to be grandparents in space. We've talked about this before. Yeah. Do you have any genres you want to explore? Like,

where's your heart taking you in terms of, like, what's the next frontier? I don't want to talk myself into a corner here. I get it. I was literally as, like, right before I left to come here, I was messing around with some, because last, when I came here for the game night, Freddie, the first thing you said to me was like, we need a sound.

And I was like, for what? And then we talked a little bit about it. So I think I have some ideas. I don't want to say too much because I don't want to like over promise and under you don't want to drop it on Spotify like a few hours early. Max had felt so bad about this thing that could not matter less.

I was so nervous coming in the grand scheme thing. I was really afraid. I was like I was so nervous. I get it. We're so scary. Yeah. I should have sent you an email being like, hey, do you know any other musicians? For those of me that aren't like the five people that saw it, that's in reference to Maxib put the end of the theme song. Well, no, no, no, let's be specific.

The third party that handles music in the hellscape that we live in of self-distributed weirdness into Spotify, I guess. Yeah. Which is, it's not like the lyrics of the song were like, they all lose at the end. It's what funny thing? Yeah, it didn't really spoil anything. except for maybe just, you know, somebody hearing it before hearing it in real time. I understand that. But you're not getting out of the school, which is, like, give my hint, give me a taste.

You don't have to paint yourself in a corner, but like an adjective. If it was a color, what color would it be? Oh. Yeah, probably like a deep, dark blue or purple. I was going to say, I like color of space. That helps. Yeah. There's like these instruments.

So basically, like, when synthesizers first started being invented. Like the Moogs and stuff like that? Yeah. The Moogs. Not to be that guy. I mean, you're literally paid to be that. that guy. I've been saying Moogs for years.

I've been making an idiot out of myself. But now when you say it, people who know, they'll be like, oh, this guy. I like the cut of his jib. The Bukla stuff also, which is like there's East Coast and West Coast. I'm not going to get into it. But basically what they were trying to do was emulate acoustic instruments. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Bucla specifically. So there's a lot of modern synthesizers that are based on trying to emulate the bookless stuff emulating acoustic instruments. So it sounds like an electronic instrument, but there's ways to tweak it that you can't really tell. Like, you'll put it into something and people will be like, is that a marimba or is that a synth, you know? Stuff like that.

Have you listened to Tomita at all? Do you know, Issao Tomita? I don't know. Japanese guy from the 70s. Oh, he did a ton of classical music arrangements all on. I think it was Moog, but it's really, like, he did a whole album of Debussy. That's, like, one of my favorite albums of all time. It's Debusy.

I'll send you some of his stuff. It's fucking sick. he plays in that kind of world of like he's doing something very orchestral and very traditional but in this like back when they were like computer sim like that analog synth thing yeah i mean my favorite space thing is the jerry goldsmith trek stuff you know oh sure yeah yeah yeah i love that but also it's like i understand that it need so many people have done that now that it's like we always want to do something a little bit unique so chat i'm open to ideas i guess i got a couple i want to doon soundtrack just oh yeah

Okay, but hold on. Didn't soundtrack, but it's just me being really afraid. So number one, in that time, we were also dealing with early sci-fi sort of stuff. You have that early voice synthesis, which they referenced in 2001. The day, a 90s movie rap, but it's a robot. Featrig the first vocoder rapper. You know what I mean? Like a shorts lost, short circuit, too, closing credits rap.

And straight up, you have like full on a DJ solo. I was like a trap intro song at some point Now we know what Max looks like When he's very politely hearing a terrible idea I was just going to say I'm sitting in the room With the best rapper I've ever worked with Oh shucks Didn't say who

Second best rapper I've ever worked with And then also the Dune soundtrack It's just to remind me there's a 70s funky Dune soundtrack Yes the one that was ever a movie Oh, yeah. The one that they turned into the ankle, is that the one you're talking about? They turned it into a graphic novel because it didn't make it or something. Oh, that's the Jodorowski's. No, no, no.

If you look at it up, it's David Matthew's dude. It's just a funky smooth. Not that day, Matt, not that day, man, not that Dave Matthew's been. And then here's the best part. Here's the best part. This was on the R. Dunn sub-R. A few years ago, someone posts about Dune-inspired music suggestions. A dude commented said, a few decades back, I made an album inspired by Dune,

and linked it. It was David Matthews. He linked his own album. That's so great. No, but Max, not to, yeah, I don't want to paint you into a corner, but I do think you're on to something with, like, the synthesizers of acoustic, organic sound. Because it's, like, in space, like, where is the humanity? Where's the realness?

You know, I think you're already touching on something cool there. So, there you go. Space, no one can hear you play music. Yes. The first Mario Paints. What was the soundtrack of Space Cowboys? Space Cowboys. Boys the movie.

It was written by Clint Eastwood. It's like a very classic. It was the Grantorino song he sings. It's just about space. Just in playing piano. Well, actually, I had to say it's an old man song. Go listen to the Clint Eastwood, Grand Torino closing credits on. And then just copy a page.

Don't make your own song. Just do Grand Tarino. If you come up in the same way that you made the wholeness, if you come up with a song where like it's an old man singing about a car, we will start the season with all of us in that car. Like, for sure. I was shocked when I saw Grand Tarino and then he referenced Grand Tarino in the song. and called Grand Torino in the movie Grand Torino.

That's some real branding right there. What is the era? Is it like... It's going to be 2019 when the adventure starts, so pre-COVID. Oh. Nice. Do we cause it? Do we cause it?

Yeah, you go straight to China. Exterior, night market. Woo-high. Yeah. Yeah. I've never had bat before. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Holy shit Come on, man, just try it I mean, you know, I'm this old at this point Might as well just try every sort of I don't think about other people at all So Well, then You heard it here first

We caused coronavirus I think I should fly back home What are you putting your hand in front of your face When are you a pussy? I'm a care doctor's back home. I don't want to be in one of these Chinese hospitals and I'm feeling sick. They got a shi pah home.

Now, everybody real quick, kiss me all in the mouth, goodbye. Kiss your pop-pops, goodbye. Please stop telling us to call you that. Oh, my God. I'm so excited for season four. You really should be the season where you just go full hard right. Your character is just the worst First who ever lived

Max could do a Ted Nugent song Oh, no No, it's 2019 It would be Kid Rock Oh, there you go Oh, now you're cooking Oh, wow

You didn't you're so well Hey, listen That DJ solo is back on the table You're gonna be a cowboy, baby Space Balboid baby Rock Well, so this actually Like, you did the second theme song

for ACD. Remember that one? Yeah. Anime Crimes Division Anthony wrote Which And you directed with Matt Yeah

The second season theme song Was like a Japanese Death Metal Kind of like And I remember the first time We played it for people People were like I don't know about this

I was like no no This is got to be like this I think it's fantastic Yeah Sinsaki Did the screaming on that too And it's the same Yeah it's the same lyrics As the first thing

It's just again It's a reimagining of it This is how hard of Max Waller Stan I am is that I still know a lot of the lyrics to the Skyrim's back song you wrote for Freddie back of the day

when we did that video about Skyrim coming to the switch and just I'll be driving down the street and I'll be like Skyrim's back on the switch for the first time again

if you want to be a Dova keen then you're in luck my friend and I'm like why is this in here? That was a really fun one to work on too the bridge

that's just the terms of a group Oh that's right that's right that's right it was the press release I think it was just the press release I literally just copy pasted it I don't know if we can get in trouble

for that but I totally just like oh that's so funny oh my goodness well max once again it was such an amazing privilege to get to work with you on the theme and the finale theme this season that's sweet we cannot wait to see what you cook up next you got anything you want to plug while you're here

you want fucking what's cooking what else is cooking I just put out a new song on Spotify under my own name actually's first time I've done that in a long time. Oh, oh, okay. It's How to Spare Heart. Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah, I saw it when I came out. I was like, Fuck. Yeah, that's it. That's how it goes. That's right.

I co-wrote it with the fray. I also hold the number one, two, four, and five top score on Namcoe Quicken Crash. Hell yeah. Oh, hell yeah. Who's the tree we got to get rid of? Oh, the three was some fucking loser. I don't know. Bro, you sub four? Dude, I got three.

Fuck off your sub four. 3-4 was my lowest 3-8 or something was my lowest. He hot, but not hot enough, baby. Where's this machine? You're fucked. Barcade in Highland Park. Oh, wow.

Yeah. But here's the thing. I can say that I currently hold those scores because the last time I was there I did, I don't know if I do anymore. How often do they wipe those machines, though? No idea. No idea at all.

You're getting like sandcastles. You don't got to worry about this. It's been different the next day. You don't got to worry about. They soft in Highland Park, I wish you fucking, you got to worry about nothing. All right, Max, we're going to kick you out because we've got to talk about the rest of the show. Thanks, guys.

Bye, Max. Everybody go listen to Max's song and don't fuck with his fucking top score on the barcade machine. He'll kill you. So, this was one of the seasons of Dungeons and Daddies that we did. It was. It was, there have been three, and this is one of the three. This is 33% of the seasons of the show. As I said, after we finished, three down, two to go.

What, boo? How long is season four and five? Oh, infinitely. Seems like it's going to be a roguelike where we have to start over every time somebody dies. Oh, my God, a roguelike podcast. Interesting. Because they've gone shorter so far each season. Have they?

Yep. All right. There's like 64 or 69. Yeah, 59, nice. 6-7. No, and then 50-something, right? And I guess they're getting shorter. 39.

I hope this next one's longer than 39. I mean, to fair, this one was originally, like, gonna be, like, much shorter. Yeah, we didn't even think of this one as season three initially. Yeah, it was like 10 episodes or something. Sorry, what?

It was like, it'll be 20, 25 times. That was what I thought. And then, yeah, we had too much fun. Yeah, we were having too much fun. I kind of don't even know where to start with this. How do you feel that we lose? Okay, yeah, let's start there. Let's start with the episode and we'll zoom out from there.

Okay. So, yeah, if you're listening to this, you've listened to the finale of the show. I fucking loved this ending so much. It was really surprising when the faded dice roll happened, but I had stuff prepped for any different way it could shake out, but I was just like, I don't know, it feels really different than the other two seasons,

and it felt like Beth rolled 69 every time. Do you have something prepped for that? No, I did. That means Earth would blow the dick back, I guess. I guess. Closed loop. We should have known it wasn't going to work when it was once again and call it Cahoo,

with the faith of the world. She stole it from the fates of gods. She spent that luck seven years ago or however the fuck long it was. It was like Final Destination style. It came back for me. Yeah. We survived.

I mean, you did survive, though. Yeah, technically. Yeah. Technically, Blake died, Tony died. And, you know, I mean, I guess we don't see it, but definitely obviously. Everybody dies. Every single human being died except for France,

well, arguably Francis and Timmy. Oh, yeah. And Neil Armstrong. Yeah, he was stuck on the moon. Yeah, he got stuck on the moon. Just like, if you had a space. Cowboys. Oh, yeah.

It's probably my favorite ending. I like the ending a lot. I didn't like it when it was happening to us. I was really bummed. Anthony seemed so disappointed in me for choosing. Not you specifically, everyone. But I was just like, I look up to Anthony as a gamer. Not as a man.

And not as a man, but as a gamer. And I was like, am I doing a wrong game thing? Wrong game, right story, perhaps. Yeah, you know, ultimately, you just got to do what your character would do. And I just, I still think, I don't even want Will to tell us what would happen because, like, then it gets into like the realm. But like, in the moment, it's a 75% chance for two 5050s, right? I don't know. It is about, I'm pretty sure it is.

No, it is. I looked it up on my. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 75% chance. And like, despite the quon quote, it would happen. I think there's still dice rolls. Whatever would have happened. We don't know.

Francis becomes a God, has to fight another God. Roll for insanity to see if Francis gets angry. wants to consume the world himself. Like, there's, like, there are plenty of ways for it to continue to have gone wrong. I don't think, I don't think becoming it would have been fine. I don't think becoming God meant that we would, 100% percent. All that means he came to God, oh, we would have been fine. Anthony is confident that with that level of power, he could have outthought me in terms of

whatever I was trying to do, which is probably true. I think there's a good chance that, like, anybody trying to grab the dagger again would have resulted in mother doing another four attacks on anybody at instantly killing. Like, here's the, the helpful thing was seeing Blake die so quickly that I was like, We just have to do something. So after we recorded this, I didn't know how I felt about it. And then that night, I literally could not sleep. You guys have a text for me.

I think at 4 o'clock in the morning, being like I'm playing art graders. This is not working for me. The thing that got me that looking back, I realized, is that if the guttural screams had just stayed home, everything would have been better. Because Zuzel would have come out and kill the powers to be. And then you'd be living under a horrible Zuzel, you know, monarchy or whatever. Because we would be dead because we would have been in Peachyville when this Africa. Well, okay, then Earth would have been living out of Zuzel monarchy. But no, we had to get involved.

I mean, I have the DM that Anthony sent me that was his plan. Uh-huh. And it's, this is a reference of something I don't get. I'm going to Fist of Yog Sogoth. It's a spell. Fist of Yog So-Sov. It's basically force push. Okay.

The knife towards myself and stab myself, but in all caps, since I'm on Brian's body, I might not die. Now, I knew I was going to die. I was just trying to convince Beth. Yeah, I wasn't. I feel like it's most things if Will looked up the spell, too, it's probably like a two-minute. No, no, if it's a good-a-done-it. That's an instant spell.

I would highly recommend if you have access to the uncuts, if you're that level of our Patreon, that you listen to this one, because it's really interesting hearing us react to losing in a meta-sense, because for a good 25 minutes, we try to see if we can come up with something that's, like, clever and still feels fair that gets us out of it.

And ultimately, do we decide, like, not, actually, it's most fair for us to just lose and die. I love getting to a point where it's just down to the dice roll, and then it happens. And I thought character-wise, it made perfect sense. You even see, you or me where, like, even Kelsey's, like, maybe I should stab. And I try to, like, get Beth to also agree with me, what were the others. At least I'm not, like, alone in the decision.

And then it's like, no, we voted on this. Ultimately, it comes down to my point. I love endings, like, Cabin the Woods and stuff where it's like, look, the characters did what they think is morally right. They're trying hard to save the world. It's not their fault. The world ends. It's the fucking people who decide the world should end's fault. No, 100%.

Not to say victim blame me, but it's like, we try to her. best to save the world. The people who did it are the bisones and everybody else who's doing all the evil stuff. The bison's again, we're not trying to destroy the world. No, they're trying destroy Pichyville. Yeah, which is, well, they're trying to save the world. We stop the group from saving the world. We're like, Ozimandias and Watchmen. Here's what I love thematically about Cthulhu type stuff and this or stuff and why I like this ending and then I'll give up the remainder of my time or whatever Will always says, which is there is no certainty. That is like one of my favorite story. There's no certainty. My favorite of the Ten Commandments from

Kaisloski is the one where he thinks you were about to give me your favorite 10 number one honor they bother mother number two is the scientist who's like knows exactly when the ice is thick enough for for sunda to go that one's so good there is no sure to say that again holy shit he's a scientist he measures the ice explain what the whole thing is oh i mean he does 10 short stories about the different commandments films they were made for tv films for those polish television yes i believe but they are like masterpieces yeah i mean it's one of the works cinema. Every single one of is like so... But the one, I think it's for

thou... What is the... It's the first one. That shot not kill? No, no, no, no. That shall not put any God before me? Yeah, I mean, it's essentially it's just humility. Man, is that his number one? That's embarrassing. That's Elon asking Grock to say nice things about him, levels of embarrassing. It's a scientist who he knows that he can measure the ice. First off,

don't forget about me. In the winter, he knows how thick the ice is. He has a machine. He can measure the ice and all stuff. A computer. And he's like, yeah, the ice is thick enough. Like, go ahead and go ice skate out there. sun falls to the ice and dies. And it's just like, you don't know. Like, yes, you can know to us, but there's always uncertainty.

And like, yes, the Bisons could have indeed saved. And this is just more of my moral understanding nowadays. It's just the bison things they were doing was right, but they don't know. It's not like if they killed Pichyville, 100% they will save the world. There's no certainty. You literally went to a future where Zuzel had done that. Sure, but there's millions of futures where it didn't happen. Okay, sure.

Like, you don't know. Like, that's the thing. You don't know. You don't know. But you do know what you're doing is right or wrong. like and inherently you know that killing a whole town of people is wrong well yeah I've never felt like I knew what I was doing was right or wrong I mean as a human being no I think that's normal to struggle with you're right I don't always know but I would know

killing a bunch of people would be wrong I don't know well it was killing 20 people to save you know a million I don't know but what would be worse is killing a whole town like the miss where he shoots everybody in the car is killing the whole town and then you do a thing as like oh that book we misinterpreted Anthony is somebody who doesn't like the bible it's interesting like that you would, you would, you would, you would know if I'm on your, you would, you would, you're not like that in a Bible. You're not. I'm just going to. I'm just going to. These people are killing a whole town based off the idea that they read from some book in a different language that they assume is correct. That they're doing all this sort of stuff. Again, my point is that there's no certainty. We did what we think we're doing for the best of our ability, try to save the world, putting ourselves off the line. And we try to save the world without sparing anybody. Let me make myself clear. I think this ending is very cool. I'm glad we have this ending. I think it. I think it. A, puts a stake in the ground that says we're not going to wuss out of bummer endings. So that any time we roll, people will believe us and know that we're really rolling and not fudging.

B, I think it's cool to have an ending that establishes like nothing good happened. Like, what I like about this is there's no bittersweet. There's no like, well, in the end, we all tried our best and that was, like, no. I want to push you on this a little bit. I'm curious, because I remember getting that text that like you were like, can't sleep because of this ending. Was it because you were like this ending socks and we ruined the show? No, no, not at all. What was it about it that kept you up?

What I'm finding, to my surprise, is that I empathize more with my characters than I thought. Or maybe it's just a gamer thing where I feel like I quote unquote lost. I don't know. But the thing that was interesting for me as somebody playing Francis was his goal was always sacrifice myself, save the world, sacrifice myself, say the world, do a cool thing and then die so I don't have to be around for the like congratulations. But because he didn't do that, the world ended. And I didn't know what to do with that theme.

Francis trying to sacrifice himself Caused tons of problems Oh yeah, it did So if you successfully sacrificed But you never know Can you never know This is interesting because I noticed the same thing Because your reaction here reminded me

Of your reaction when Tilerius gets turned into a monster In I just like that little guy Yeah I wanted him to have his happy ending It's funny because it's like there's this side of you That comes out as a player Like when you're the DM you're like

Cool shit on my plan Whatever I don't go fuck like yeah But then like I was surprised being on the other side of the table, being like, oh, like, Anthony's, like, upset right now. Like, Anthony's, like, really, like, invested in what's going on with this character. Yeah. If I can extract myself from this being the character, I really enjoy the ending.

I think it's really interesting. I think it's a great thing for us to do at this point in the lifespan of the podcast. I just want you to acknowledge and just think about how mad you would be, because this is very much possibility. You sacrifice to yourself again, and you end up consuming the whole world and killing everybody yourself. That would have been so cool. I mean, are you kidding me?

That would have been awesome. But you would have lost, it would have been a similar thing. Well, I mean, but we would have saved the universe No, no, no, no, no. The space stick would have died. Not necessarily.

That's my point. It's like, no. Okay, so you're talking, I mean, yeah, yeah. In a situation where the worst possible thing happened, even worse than what we got, Francis caused that. I think that's really interesting

because going back to something that we were talking about when Francis tried to kill himself in that one episode, that's having the really good note that like, this should make things worse, not better. And so it would then be a tragedy

of this guy who can't change, who thinks that he's doing the right thing, but ends up making things worse because despite thinking he's being selfless, in a way, sacrificing himself that way is actually really selfish and trying to make himself the hero. Like to me, that's a cool, interesting tragedy as a very specific outcome from the other two characters. But we didn't, though. We did because we tried our best to make a decision. But the thing is, the moral of if Francis killed everybody is like, hey, you shouldn't

try to kill yourself. It's actually bad. It hurts the people around you. The moral of you guys trying to protect life and just falling. You're basing the moral off of the effect. Yes. If this were a movie, that's what I would take away from. And off of your character in particular, which is interesting,

but I would challenge you to think beyond your character for this. Again, I like the ending. I'm not still Francis. No, we don't think you don't like the ending. I'm just fascinated by you as a person. I'll say it. The season would have been better if Tony was there the whole time, baby. I like Blakeborn and Tony, I think.

I want to talk about something that Will did that I found really interesting is like the feeling that came up for me when you introduced the maws on our nose in the epilogue. I was like, oh, fuck no. I was like, what? Are the malls going to save us? I'm going to be pissed. But to thread the needle the way you did where they're not helping the world, you know, like they're not doing anything like profound really other than, you know, offering a way out. of this shitty scenario. I thought that was a really, like, fine line to walk,

and I think you walked it well. Oh, thank you. Yeah, they gave cool choices to the characters to stay or to go. See, I was like, there's three outcomes to this fight. One is Zuzel wins. Like, if you guys really fuck up, like, I'm pretty sure that wasn't going to happen.

Like, there's a world where Zuzzo wins, right? Where he's summoned, he takes over the world, but the world is safe. There's an ending where one of you becomes a demigod and kills Space Dick or whatever. And then there's an ending where the Space Dix, There's like the players win, Zuzel wins,

Space Dix wins, right? And whether you guys want it by shooting it through the sky or doing the other thing, and I had some little ideas for how that would work. But when I was trying to figure out like, I'm like,

you're going to need some kind of epilogue. And I think it was originally when I was like, oh, there's an ending where the world legitimately ends. And then I was like, oh, maybe the moths show up and like they have this choice,

right, to do this X, Y, or Z. And then I realized it was like, oh, I think you give them that version of that choice no matter what the ending is. Like, I was going to like basically give you guys a space to play And like, if Zuzel had taken over, it would be like, okay, Beebe and Milton are the resistance.

A lot of people have sort of are like enslaved or whatever, like fighting. It's like, what do you guys want to do? Do you want to stay in fight or do you want to get out of here? And then the other one, it was going to be like, this whole horrible thing happened. Blake died. But like the world has just suppressed all memory of what's happened. But you guys know what really happened. So it's like, the world you're living in is now kind of a lie.

And then that same offer was going to happen. So I was like, oh, that's an interesting choice to give them for an epilogue. Like, do I stay or do I go? And then I was like, okay, I know what to do with the end of the end. Yeah, so yeah, that was where that came from. I was also really psyched about a choice that Matt made is Kelsey. Oh, I love that. If you listen to the uncut, initially what happens is Francis and Kelsey both just grab the nearest kid and force them onto the spaceship against their will.

And it's like really dark. It's great. It's so dark. But then I think what ultimately Matt decided to do with Kelsey was a lot more true to that character. Yeah. Yeah, I felt weird. I would have to listen to the uncut. It was also like the end of like, I think it was like four and a half hour recording.

And, like, I don't think I quite registered in the moment. Like, I mean, I understood it. It's not like it was complicated. Well, it was like, very simple as, like, the moth we could leave. So in that moment, I was kind of like, okay, the thing's going to blow. We should just like, yeah, we all got to get on or whatever. It didn't clock me. And the moment you start responding, I was like, oh, yeah, no, that's horrible.

Like, that's not, what am I doing? That's, it feels completely wrong. Like, that's not. Okay, now I actually understand. Like, I want to try to get them on. I wouldn't actually, like, force somebody against their will. Yeah. So we kept recording.

And then I, yeah, I think I was just like, hey, can we just take that part back? I don't think that's, like, what to play. And I like that Kelsey gets on at first, but then that turn and then the goodbye between her and Francis, then that her and Trudy and that, like, make sure your son gets a teacher joke was, like, such a... Oh, so good. I was like, I was crying. I was like, after looking at Matt and crying, I was like, it was all hitting me the, like, you know, the season ending. And, like, I was like, oh, man, Trudy's going to have a hard time saying goodbye to Kelsey.

And then Matt just this nuclear bomb. It's so good. I just couldn't... I had to run away from the real field. That's the Matt special, though, is that kind of like Adam bomb joke right at the end of a really poignant scene. I always think of after the end of the death of a salesman episode in season one, like we all get back from this emotional thing. And then Anthony's there as Peyton, I'm glad you weren't there. That would have been a weird energy.

You would have been a weird energy on this adventure. That's true. I think it was the most, as I said, like most tense in terms of as a player. And then, yeah, I guess I always just like, even regardless of what could have happened, And I like when you get to a point where it's just the dice rolls and it just decides one or the other, like, as opposed to, like, you roll and then you just like, okay, now something else happens. Like, I just like that more binary solution for when a dice rolls. But then I like what everybody did with their characters in, like, the whole epilogue. Like, I don't know.

It was, I thought you giving us the nine months was really brilliant. The nine months is very cool. And then I thought everybody was really fun. I also want to say that if you listen to the uncut, you'll hear that we actually did all forgetting about Blake. Yeah, we truly did. Truly, truly did. It was like my favorite part because after we had all gone, I guess Anthony was going to text us at 4.30 in the morning,

but what we really happened was like 45 minutes later, Fred was like, yeah, it would be nice if we did like a funeral. Like, ah, yes, we all forgot Blake. Whatever. Sure, Freddie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think to speak again on this, like, dice roll moment, I don't want to beat a dead horse.

I think I realized that if we had made it, I wouldn't have been as happy as how sad I was that we didn't. It would be kind of boring if we succeeded. And so, yeah, I think, you know, in a medium where you're trying to conjure emotion and, you know, make people have a reaction to something. I think, you know, the stronger emotion should win. Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.

You won two seasons in a row. Like, if everybody knows this is just a cozy cup of cocoa before you go to bed. Yeah, I don't like cozy shit. I mean, one person got to die a war hero and the other two got to fly into outer space. And then the rest of the planet died. And then the rest of them got to fucking solve the problem. We don't know. We don't know what happened with that elder sign.

That was another thing I really liked Was Beth pulling that out at the end To have like this one little It's probably not gonna work But like what's, you know That false hope of like is there something? I just would have died if I never got to say What your thing was.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to do favorite moments from the episode Then we can zoom out and talk about the season as a phone. So my favorite moment from this episode Actually happened right before the episode Because we recorded the cliffhanger And then I'm driving home like what the fuck am I going to do And then Anthony DMs me

I want to have France's body swap with his dad And I was like, yes! And it was funny because I had had that as an idea in the back of my head that was something that could happen like way down the road. But like the idea that you came up with that and then wanted to go with it in that moment, it was like the perfect like pull a rabbit out of your hat from a cliffhanger kind of thing. Well, I appreciate you bending the rules on casting time to allow that to happen. There's a couple things I love about it. One is that it's like I do feel very strongly that like in a moment where you get to cheat death in this game like the consequences need to be horrific or that's like Trudy's head popping off or like in this moment like taking this nightmarish body and like. this dead mask of your father and all that stuff.

And then it led to like some really cool combat moments, like de-gloving the guy's head. That was one of my favorite visuals of the whole. Like when it comes to Cthulhu stuff, people have all these arguments as to what true Cthulhu mythos shit. It should feel like true lovecraft shit. The only thing that matters to me is that something happens that makes you go, oh, I've never seen that before.

That's fucked up. And like somebody getting pulled off of somebody else's face like melting pizza cheese was like, oh, yeah. That and the dick going into the earth were my two, like, ah, this is good Cthuloo shit. Oh, yeah, I was fucking stoked about it. And that was just, again, that was just, I was winging it in the moment.

I'm like, oh, no. So I loved all that. And then I also loved that because I was like, okay, yes, the spell takes a while to cast. I was like, oh, I'll pull the old fucking time dilation chambered rabbit fucking out of my ass again and have this. Oh, yeah, there was another one. Yeah, so like I'll play that.

But then I was like, oh, yeah, that'll be funny. And then you can see Tony in there. And then that also led to my favorite fucking comedy riff of the episode. Turns out when you just let Freddie do things on his own, it's really funny. It's just the hardest laugh for music. I've gone completely insane after 72 hours. Dude, no time at all. And I've had the phrase

Chateau d'if. And then, of course, yeah, as Matt was saying, the fucking, the song about how men relate to each other. That was my favorite moment. I do think if we do another tour, that has to be the song that they do.

I would love to do that if it's like Freddie playing guitar. And I think it'd be interesting a best song. And then I think Anthony and I just act out guys walking past each other. We have to improvise a different, awkward conversation every time.

Yeah, like I fall. you like go to reach your hand and I kind of like wave it away and then he's stand up and we kind of like nod and we just walk on it this is how man you're trying to dab each other up but you can yeah exactly it's harder than it looks I recently learned how to dab up and it is harder than it looks it's harder than it looks but I've actually become pretty good at it so I know I know how boys say hi now a little street myself favorite moment from the episode was Kelsey saying we're asking treaty to home school a not to home school to me for sure one way I laughed hardest was

definitely the song from freddie and yeah just that whole ending i don't know no specific moment but just yeah the whole whole ending i felt bad almost with that whole homeschool joke because beth was like being all actorly and really good in that moment and i remember in that moment watching her and she's like teary up looking at me and i like i play back i was like oh no i have this joke on it's it doesn't hurt her it didn't count it's like it's probably giving me fun years this really emotional i love the whole ending and i thought the story-wise like one the body swap from you and then bringing out the sigil was like perfect for the ending so

those are my favorite moments oh I want to add sorry also obviously Esther did an amazing job with this entire finale and just you know these sounds that couldn't be conjured from your worst nightmares and were made flesh but um go high it's a vine I'm referencing the vine with the macaroni

but one of my favorite moments listening to it which I actually didn't realize until the live listen was when I roll and I say the world ends and it just goes to commercial is so good because I've just been hearing the cut where it goes immediately to the epilogue so to leave people hanging

like that is actually cool. I do want to hear from people who are listening to the version with ads and it's like the world ends and then you hear like Squatisette is ready by mid-mobile. If anything's going to encourage non-patron people to join Patreon, it's going to be fun. Tired of ads ruining your favorite podcast? Oh last thing I'll say that's a sort of a meme moment but I did

listening to again, I forgot I had done it, but I very much enjoyed Friday failing already, all the dodge rolls. And then me realizing at the moment, it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, that can't, those are not your dodgers. Oh, yeah, yeah, your correction. That was a really,

that was the only one who's dodged a lot because I did all that boxing scene, so I dodged so often. I was like, 50. I was like, man, your dodge is crazy. I want to give Esther props for that as well because that would have been the easiest thing to cut out.

Yeah, you know what I mean? To be like, oh, well, wait, they do it wrong. So let's just do it. But, like, it adds this whole element of like false suspense to him they're like oh my god he's going to make it it's like this it's not even just like

it's like funny games yeah it's like oh my real anarchy moment no I love that as well Freddie Anthony Matt plugging the book is a really funny concept in my head because it shows

oh when he's like I'm going to shoot the shit out of that book it's just it's what a character arc for someone who starts loving books you know and then to get to imagine what goes essentially a book banner Imagine what that character has gone through.

They start loving books. By the end, they want to shoot the book with two guns. I was happy that all the gun caught his shit came back, and I'm pretty satisfying way. That's fine. Should we answer questions or zoom out for the season? Let's talk about the favorite moment of the season. Yeah, let's zoom out. This is a big wild season.

We'll go overall thoughts in a second, but let's start with just like favorite moments from the season. I have a couple that leap to mind. Just scanning through the Bigfoot episode, just thinking about. I will never understand why people were upset about that. It's a completely fucking normal episode. I was a joke back to there's some of my favorite moments. It's a good episode. I love what we're talking about clearly that keel is a dick and you take the stone with you.

Yeah. To the bunk. Yeah. We all kind of like, it's just like three parents all knowing that the kid is like jerking off in the bunk. We're all like, yeah, Francis, yeah, that's you. Okay. You treated the same way when like your pets are sexual. Yeah.

You know what I mean? The Bigfoot arc is definitely us at our most, like, full contact, safety's off, improv. Do you what I mean? Like, but there is a lot of stuff I absolutely loved in that as well. I think my temperature rose like 20 degrees, just my brain trying to keep up with everything that was going on.

But like getting to the arrival schick, I thought was really fun. Yeah, yeah. I had some plans for them to hopefully come back in the finale, but I couldn't make it work. I was trying to get the Bigfoot guys to show up again. Well, specifically the moment where Anthony kills Jenkins, like in the moment, I was like very irritated.

Oh, I could tell. It was not a subtle moment. But it led to Brunhilda. Because after him doing that, I was like, there has to be a consequence for him. Even if it's a bad guy, him just shooting someone in cold blood. Like, I need there to be something that happens as a result of this. And I was like, oh, what about, like, there's the gun is cursed and it activates this curse. And then that's why you, like, everything your collaborators throw at you, you got to roll with it.

I will always love, and especially since there was just an animation, just thrown out. One of my favorite moments is definitely the entire Tony back story. Oh, yeah. The Tony backstory was a real, was a real. was a real make or break moment for people I think Tony backstory was the

throwing the bag of beans of season three I think where it was like I think it's even worse I think it's more like the family guy episode of season two I don't mean in terms of like

oh this is this iconic funny bit or whatever but I mean like I think in season one throwing the bag of beans and all that crazy shit happening like I remember as a player going through that I mean like oh so like that's the tone

like oh those that's how far we can take this like that's like so then it was like when you guys all locked in and went feral with that fucking sequence it was I think you guys all felt a little bit more comfortable after that like really playing around in the space and making your own my feeling is that a lot of people have been like anthony and matter just steamrolling well and it just feels like so mean spirit and it's like

no no no if you don't like that then you don't get to enjoy Tony's backstory if you can't handle me in my worst you don't deserve me at my best that experience for that was so fun because like I remember going into that episode thinking about, like, okay, I think it's going to maybe in this direction, in this direction. And then it just became so unhinged so quickly that the closest physical experience is, you know, those roller coasters

that start with a hard acceleration right away. Oh, yeah. It felt like that. We're talking about accelerator, King de Kha. Yeah. Top thrill dragster. It was that feeling of like, whoa! It's funny because I

re-listen to it recently and like, yeah, it's rare because you're usually the chaos scram. It's rare to hear you on your back foot. I know. And in that sequence, it's like the three of them are just fucking going crazy. And you're like, because you had a couple of... See how many it takes to even match my power!

Look at what they have to do to even come close to a fraction of my power. Yeah, you're fucking hitting the ball across the table and tables and something running around to the other side of hitting it back to yourself where Matt and I have to hit each other. It's funny because it starts out and you guys are doing silly riffs and then Anthony and Matt just going crazy. But it's Beth like waiting

to take her shot and then just going and I'm a cat that All fucking hell breaks loose. That's obviously, I think my other, one of my favorite schicks from that same episode, I have so many things I remember just cracking about it. Tell us, tell us father, what you like most about your children this season? The whole I was in the DeWore conversation.

Oh, DeWor. Yeah. It's just a master class. Specifically him going in many ways. In many ways. I was also from that, I mean, I think that a car is born as like a top 10 episode of the show. That one also has, or right before it has I remember like

Freddy was from the jump with Tony Klau was just like I'm gonna die immediately like I'm gonna crash this car I'm drunk I'm just fucking picking fights with people and I remember like okay like how do I get him with a good hook to get like kind of lure him into the story I'm like okay I'm gonna have this spy show up

and he's in this communist intrigue with like people guns and so I was like that's like he's such a weirdo like having him against like debonair spies smoking cigarettes and drawing a little revolvers and then yeah like he's so anti-communist he'll get pulled into this like Russia spy plot I had a whole thing with, like, yeah,

that was where the first idea of, like, Percy Covograd and all that started. And I was like, oh, maybe there's a mirror Russian operation or whatever. So we do all of that. I have, like, two separate mission briefings and a call from the queen and all this shit. We designed intros for him.

And then fucking, I'm like, okay, you wake up the next day. And then he's like, I'm like, what the hell happened last thing? It doesn't remember it. Oh, yeah. Holy shit. That, and it was like,

you've got the coin from the queen. It's like, there's something we're like, two broads, Tony, you hit the job. Jack right. Anyway, just absolutely loved that. God, there was this moment that was just in my head. Now I forget. I love one, the parts where one, it brought us Mothman, but the whole bringing Trudy to seeing all the other Trudies in the pit. I thought it was like a story moment that like, not that I don't remember like the first like few episodes, but like after like, because we just let Mothman go, I felt like we were kind of like investigating and like people had like burn themselves alive and all stuff. But like that felt like, I don't know. It pivoted to like a really creepy, interesting place.

that I remember feeling like as a player that the whole sort of, at least the way I was approaching the season kind of changed. I really love that, the whole sequence. I think my favorite moment was the inception of murder, murder, murder, and then Matt and I trying to finish each other's sentences about a show that we've never seen or heard of.

I love my memory mug. I wasn't saying that to pitch it, but you should go by the mug. Go by mug. Yeah. I use that mug. And then, you know, just kind of broadly speaking, a moment that like I didn't really enjoy as much at the time but is like really grown on me and really shaped kind of how I think about the

season as a whole is that episode where everybody was playing Trudy and I think it's because like everybody was making decisions that I wouldn't have made with Trudy and so you know you get kind of protective you get kind of like sort of like turning someone's character into a cat yeah you kind of get a little like growly when somebody touches your dinner bowl it kind of made me realize that like Trudy did bad things genuinely and no matter what I did I was never going to be able to not make her like complicated

because like with Ron and Scary I felt like everything kind of actually ended up fitting neatly in a bow and like I was able to just kind of circle the arc and land a plane very smoothly and stuff like that but I realized like looking back at that episode that like I would never

be able to make Trudy like completely innocent and so it like really made me appreciate the season for like being a little grittier and dark year. Dark. Dark year. I was really excited that you were down to do a big swing like that with that character.

And that episode's because I remember we talked about it beforehand. It was like, hey, here's kind of what I'm thinking. And I think you had kind of laid out the basic ground rules of like, I feel like she left. And then we're like, oh, what's the ambiguity of that choice like? And then, yeah, I had found this game, Bluebeard's Bride that was like, oh, this could be the perfect kind of thing to play around with this. It was a real joy getting to do those more. intense scenes with you this season, like whether it's the stuff with her and Timmy or her and

Tucker. I think the Trudy emotional stuff grounded the story in a really nice way when it would at times get pretty goofy and off the rails. Like it was a nice, something that come back to. And yeah, I actually, I really like that she might be my favorite character yours, that like she has the sweetness, but then also this sadness and this like past that she's kind of, it's her, but it's not her. And she's kind of reconciling with it. And I found that all super interesting. And, like, I thought watching her growth from being the, like, overt housewife robot at the beginning to, like, becoming this really rounded, nuanced person by the end was super cool. I was also, as far as the, like, kind of, like, straight sci-fi horror scenes go, I was so surprised. I was like, okay, she's going to get dumped in this pit.

We're going to do this moment where she's impaled by her own hand. And then I was like, oh, this other monstrous Trudy is going to come out. I'm like, obviously she's going to kill it. Like, obviously she's going to kill this other Trudy. And then, like, you befriended it? And I was like, oh, this is so much better than what I was thinking. Like, this is, like, a really cool turn on this kind of moment. And that changed a lot of how I was thinking of how to approach those scenes with Trudy as well.

So, yeah. Oh, can we talk about Francis shooting fucking Shane in the leg? Oh, yeah, that was a big change. Oh, yeah. That was, because that's another fucking gnarly scene in the show. Like, that's like, I think similarly to the where it was like, Tony was like this is as goofy as this show can get this season. I was like, that moment where he shoots him in the leg. I was like, oh, this season could get very dark and raw and intense at the same time.

I like that whole episode. I remember I just felt like we were. That's the boxing. Yeah, we're split for a while. I remember it was nice that, like, the party had come back together. Honestly, I liked it because Kelsey was going to go box. So I, you know, it was a Kelsey, you know, I got, I got me the special person and go boxing. So that's fun.

I thought the scene was just really tense. Everything was tense with, you know, knowing that was going to be some sort of sacrifice. And we had all these plans of people in the audience and stuff. And we still had Tony and Dr. Mann was showing up. And then, like, we knew that Francis was going to do something. But, yeah, like the fact that the biggest horror wasn't like this monster showing up, which was pretty bad. It was like Francis shooting. It was mad.

Shane was crazy. It was bad. Man's the real monster. We're the first story to ever do that. Just kid. Just mean, toxic boy. It's the real monster. He's not mean.

He's just evil. That was, yeah. I think before that, there was the moment where I'm like, oh, like, this is going to be a chess match this season with Anthony that I'm not going to win was prompting him for the big hero moment when he's hiding under the bed. I'm like, I got to get Anthony out of this bed. I would have him have a flashback with his dad where his dad gives him this ice cream scoom. He's like, cool. I stay under the bed and hide. until they leave.

I was like, but I remember being like, I want to enable him more. So I'm like, I give Francis a gun. What's the worst? What's the worst? Let's see what happens.

If I give Anthony this gun, where's this character going to go as a result? And I love that it was this like initial moral stain that just comes back to keep haunting them, you guys over and over and over again. Nobody can say that we don't treat like that horrible thing happening with undue weight. Yeah, I mean,

that's what I like about not to be up our own ass, but that's what I like about what we do, is that it's never either or, it's always both, you know. I'm sorry, Matt, I can't find the funny thing you said. Oh, that's okay. I will say that in the season, I loved a lot of stuff you did this season. The two big ones that come out to mine are, would we just beat his ass?

I didn't like, that just felt like we were playing a game together. We just were playing co-op, four people beating ass, that was fun. There's two things you said this season that made me laugh harder than I think I've ever laughed in a long, long time, one of which was, but if poison ivies at the Empire State Oh, yeah, who's that character? Oh, my God. That's such an insane. Holy shit.

Yeah, I do think I would nominate that as like the single funniest line. I think it's the funniest line that he was so sad. And then the second one, I think a close second is her name would be Allison and she owns a business. I was going to bring up a fun and Anthony think that I'll say that, yeah, this whole season was a ton of fun. Kelsey was a ton of fun. After we finished recording, Will and I were working on nail house. And I was talking about like, I don't think I've ever been as stumped as a player. even as when I had to

like when I've done Kingdom Death Monster or DM Dadhammer then when Anthony and maybe the greatest kill shot of the show like I don't think you realize like how much

like I did not know how to handle that you came up with Kelsey plagiarizing like it's like it really is like at night

and day like I just like whoa like I took the the load bearing janga block what we're talking about like with Will not being a player

like there's like a certain chemistry and I was like in my mind when Will was the end was like okay like Kelsey's gonna be like closer to like a Henry you know like that's sort of like vibe

like all positive and like writing the encyclopedia was like my kind of like my you know the riderly sort of summary of that which is like she's so idealistic she's like going to write the third encyclopedia because she wants to learn everything and like she plagiarized it I was like holy shit this is a different woman

like I don't know who this person is and I loved it though because like it was such a weird I guess that's like my favorite part about this show that was really funny to me I felt like it would have been easy to kind of like coast and not think too much about Kelsey and just like, oh, she's just a nice teacher, like my mom and she's just going to be there. And like that gave me such a different energy that I had to like, you know what it is? It's like Kelsey goes from being like, oh, Kelsey's such a sweet, nice old teacher to like, Kelsey thinks she's such a sweet nice old teacher. You know what I'm like at this edge to her where you're like, at the end of the season, remember, like, is she a good teacher?

I started being like, hey, she's a great teacher character. And then be like, at what cost? She seems to really dislike some of her students and have some strong opinions. She became much more of probably what I would normally. It's because I think she's closer to what I would have just done normally. If I didn't think of it in the mindset of like, oh, I'm going to replace,

I have to like serve Will's. No one can replace Will. No, of course not. But it's like, you know, we talk about it's in multiplayer games. I'm always the person like I will wait for everybody else to choose a character and then try to fit in. That's a Phil. He's the Phil.

So, yeah. So anyways, I loved it. I thought was great. Matt's a Switch gamer in more ways than one. the same way that Trudy is one of my favorite bad characters. I think Kelsey is my favorite bad character. I love him. Oh, yeah.

I love Gabby-Yaus is still wins. I love Daryl. I love Link, but like Kelsey is like so just like the swings with the cat. Like again, you manage to find this. She does have this real sweetness and this real heart to her, but then she's like such a fucking great.

And it's just like the way you explore like her sexuality was really funny. Like the no man status to fight me as much as a book, but it's sure fun to see him try. Like it's like, and it was so impressive to see you the whole. season do essentially two facts because you had to come up with like her little sort of teacher saying and then the fact that went along with it. It was just like I just, I thought she was such a different heat than what you normally play. I appreciate that. But you had so much fun with her and it was just like I was always exciting to see what you would come up with. The last thing I'll say is like just

to even more clarify why I like that Anthony did that is one of my favorite parts about weapons, the movie is like how much of a mess she is. Yeah. And I think it's funny because like I wanted to be a teacher because like my mom's a teacher. I love teachers. My brother was a teacher. Like I've thought about wanting to be a teacher and like I think I probably did the thing where I was like too close where I was wanted her to be too nice and it's like Mrs. Sue, Mrs. Mary Sue. Yeah, it's like no, teachers are mess. Like they're people. Like I like that they're like, ultimately how they're good they are is of what they're doing in the classroom like at the other day. It's like they're just people like us. So like actually every teacher I've known

is a bit of a mess. So I'd like that Kelsey actually turned to do a bit of a mess. Freddie, my initial like reaction when Blake showed up after Tony died, I don't think I'll ever get that moment back. Like, it's like, he's got this new Nordic accent. He's so different. And it was just like a true joy to see that pivot in the middle of the season. Oh, so you're saying that you hated it at first. What?

No, no, the opposite. No. What was so? You talked to us. I think that's an incredibly underrated pivotal moment, which is your first person who had to be a new character midseason. Mm-hmm. That's true.

And I really think you pulled it off incredibly well. One, a completely different sort of energy of your previous character. Yeah. Like, somehow fit right in. And they're both great character. I think that's so hard If I had lost a character Halfway through I would just do a worse character

I'm like I'm Kelsey's teacher's aide It's Belsie It made it even funnier when we would see Little snippets of Tony again from that point on Of like the recorded messages Hamb burgers yum yum yum yum Yeah yeah yeah Again another example of you just let Freddie improv against himself

It'll usually be really funny Tony is one of these crazy ones where like In snippets and the second half of the season you're getting all the goodness from it but you also is not a team player at all really so it's like it's interesting i feel like they're both shaped by the system a little bit right because tony in a d20 oh that's what you mean by system i thought you were like the band oh no i'm saying like in the gameplay system because i think a 5 e tony overstays is welcome sure i think because he's not going to die for sure yeah you know and so he's gonna become the winner yeah yeah you know and

Glenn was a little bit of that, you know, which is why I think that Glenn has like these gigantic come up its moments because it's almost carmically the character. You have to do it, right? Because otherwise it's just like, what? It's entourage. My favorite Tony moment might still be, because again, it was just like,

when is Will going to finally kill Tony? He's like, I want to make him suffer for a couple more episodes. But Tony stuck in the vent and then trying to convince Shane to bleed out on him was like such a, I was like, this is the most despicable man that's ever lived. I just like, yeah, open up your wound

and let me, it'll slide out. Oh, my God. Here's what's the funny about Blake was like, I truly went in with Blake with just like empty thoughts, no mind. Like, it was much more of a Phil character, which was to pull from Matt's playbook a little bit, seeing like, at this point in the season, we have a pretty good sense of what the character dynamics are

and what the team comp dynamics are. So it's like, what kind of fits in it, but can still kind of play. And I was like, oh, he's, he's just got to be like a good guy just a good boy but then all these little details keep coming up where it's like oh yeah he's rich which is like so funny

to me that's like oh yeah there's a rich guy on the team which is like you don't see yeah it's hilarious what I liked about coming in midway through the season having someone whose goal was just an unequivocal I love PGville and I want to protect peachyville yeah it's like I don't have to worry about this guy at all and you can plug right into the adventure but then I think making Blake this kind of sweethearted

like just kind of like the way you played it it allowed you to kind of go to these crazy places with back story. Yeah, and it was just every time it was revealed, it was a fun contrast. You know, like having like,

like, Amberster show up and like this whole like war property. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. That's what I found interesting about Blake. It was like, Freddie doesn't play nice character. Like,

what is this? So you were suspicious. Which made it more endearing when he was actually just a nice guy. And sort of the weird amalgamation that I was in for this season is, in my opinion, my best line,

Ambrister your guns. That's in Tony's voice. Is it? Yeah. It's like for whatever. Members of your guns. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's technically

it's a Tony voice moment, but I was like, yeah. So to me, they are actually, for whatever reason, they are expressions of the same sort of energy, but in kind of two different sides of the coin, if that makes sense. I like that in general, this season,

I mean, a lot of it's called Thu, a lot of it's will instead of me, but like it just feels really distinct and different. I know a lot of people are like, oh, they're murder hoboing. It's like, not it's called Cthulhu. Like, there's only so many things you can do when you're in the real world

and you only have access to real world abilities and shit. And the system is so dangerous that it feels like if you get hit once, you can die. You're fucked. So you might as well shoot first. But despite all of that and the let'sality of the system, we still manage to get moments like, let's build a toilet scarecrow. Yes, yes, yes. I was a big fan of the, yeah, that whole.

That episode is one of my favorite little one-liners, which is like, because you guys go to the McDonald's to destroy the bathroom. And then Matt's like, here's a riddle. Someone blows up a bathroom, then eats it McDonald's. Do you guys want to do some listener questions? Yeah, let's do it. All right. Lillendiza asks, When Trudy killed Brunhilda,

there was a hilarious moment where it felt like Will was mentally rewriting his plans concerning her. Was there an original endgame plan for her? I don't think so. I think the reason I was kind of pretty willing to just let Brunhilda disappear at that point was I felt like I had gotten

what I wanted to out of her, which was I wanted her to kill Mothman. And that was a whole, like, so sad. Months long game of mental chess I was playing against myself to be like, okay, like, how can I do this in a way

that they're not gonna hip to it and I can make it feel earned and not cheap? So that was like, I can't like it. Like, what is she? And that was where we came up like the backstory and all that stuff. We tried bringing her back in the finale.

You'll hear it in the uncut. It didn't work. I kind of wish we had been able to find one more moment for Brunhilda. But no, that didn't really erase any plans I had for her. And honestly, I was kind of relieved that Trudy took her out of picture

to be perfectly honest. I was like, those side characters, like, it's always like, you're right on the edge of them being around too much. You've got to let them go away. Again, Anthony was always very good at being like, Payton's in the background now. Okay, now it's time for Peyton.

Like, we're going to take Peyton out of the picture for a little bit because it's like, if you overplay them, they start to wear out. They're welcome pretty fast, I think. The true zucchini has a question. Question for Anthony. How did it feel to be on the other side of the DM screen for the first time? Oh, yeah.

Hey, bud. It wasn't the first time. Not the first time, but like for a long season like this. On the stage. Yeah. Certainly a lot less stressful for the first time I could leave this office and be like, I am now done thinking about the Dungeons of Daddy's job I have for until the next time I go in

or until at least I get on Discord and we need to do something. So it was a nice vacation in that sense. It was fun to come up with a weird character that I thought could sustain, you know, 30 plus episodes and I thought it was pretty tricky and the fact that you all have managed to do it, what, like four or five times now?

It's very impressive to be. Well, I mean, yeah. I'm counting all of our little. side journeys as well. Yeah, it was nice. I still think I prefer DMing to some extent because I feel better having my plans fucked with and having to recuperate and divert my plans than I do fucking up somebody else's plan. Because I'm just trying to think there's a lot of like Francis killing the Nazi, right? Like it's it's just it felt like a thing that Francis would do. It was deeply inconvenient to the story because the guy was an exposition hose and stuff like that.

and even though like I would do that again I felt a little bad but I felt like you know it's just honest for the character and I prefer not caring about my shit yeah it's easy what it's your shit I mean you're such a hardcore gamer and I don't even mean that ironically like you are I feel like the cracks that you have the dislikes that you have in TTRPG systems is my opinion would be more felt as the player as opposed to as a DM as a DM as a DM like you're doing the game system and then I feel like you're so self deprecating anyway. is that if somebody fucks up your system. You're like, oh, Berlin's 2, isn't it actually good, even though it's a fucking masterpiece? And like, you're okay with that. But then when you're a player, like, why the fuck do that work? Like, why can't, like, what the fuck? Like, like, like, I get 10 headshots when I play.

Like, why? So I feel. Yeah, play on the friend's fucking Logitech knockoff N64 controller. Mad cats. Get Mad cats fucking on Smash Bros. But yeah, that's my. Yeah, it was fun. Still looking forward to being a DM again, I think.

Are you going to be mean to us? I mean, no more than usual. I don't intend. be. But not at all. Anthony, well, I will say, I think one of Anthony's great strengths as a DM is that he's tremendously selfless. Like, he's so unpressuous about everything that he's doing that, like, he will go with whatever you throw at him. And I know what you mean in terms of that feeling of, like, would you rather have your sandcastle get kicked over or kick over someone else's sandcastle, right? Yeah, and especially because, like, if you like building sandcastles,

like, then great, you get to rebuild your sandcastle, even better and more fun. I wasn't even thinking of that. I was like, my sandcastle probably sucks. Then kicking it probably improved it in some way. whereas like yeah on the other side of the table it is like you know you're causing friction for someone else but it's like that friction is what makes the show good like that tension between what's going on with everyone bringing what they're bringing the table and then everyone reacting to him playing off of each other like that's what that's what makes the sauce work I contend that our show is different from other d and D&D shows because we are willing to be more antagonistic between the DM and the players here's here's the funny terms of meme in terms of that case which again I don't listen to any of the other D&D shows so I can't weigh in that much but like that is something that I really pride our ourselves on doing is that I think for some people can be a frustrating experience to listen to. It can be a frustrating experience to play sometimes. But like literally like what you were joking about earlier, Anthony where you're like, if you can't handle me in my shoe Jenkins, you don't get me in my Tony backstory. Yeah. Is like, that's genuinely how I feel about the show.

I'm like, I think that it is like the same energy that that's the sauce, right? The sauce will take you where it goes, right? And you have to honor it and do your best to throw yourself at it. And I think that's where the magic of the show comes out. I think what's interesting about DMs. I think you and Will are both so good at it and why I enjoy playing with you two when I haven't played, enjoy playing with, you know, some other DMs before. I mean, I have enjoyed other DMs also, but is I think it's an interesting thing as a listener or if you're somebody like, if you're just removing everything, the DM is there to serve the players. You don't feel pity for the game. You don't feel pity for the N64. But since as a human being who has the most work

to do, sure. You inherently do. But like, I feel like the sympathies get kind of mixed up, which is like the simply should be all for the, the players are there to play. Yeah. So I think it's an interesting thing that let's plays can make people be like, oh, man, like, that DM's plans. I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. The DM's there to serve me. I'm here to play the game. Like, I don't feel bad.

I don't feel bad. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing it. Otherwise, I'd read your book or whatever it is. So it is just that I find a fact. And I think most people feel that way, but I am proud that I feel like both of you are like, yeah, I'm here to make something for you guys to play. And it is my job to roll with it because I'm not a computer. I'm serving the purpose of trying to make something for you to play.

I don't know. I realized in that moment, because it is at the same time as a human being, the DM has the most work. So they should get the most sympathy to some degree. But maybe it's just my job as a director, which is like, you don't get sympathy as a director. Like, you don't get sympathy for being in charge. No.

No. Yeah. That's your job. I will pat myself on the back for when somebody asked this question during a hangout, and I described DMing as doing everything you can to help your players have the kind of fun that they want to have, not forcing them to have the kind of fun that you want. Exactly.

And I think we've talked about this a little bit in terms of like there's a bit of a slightly different response with me in the DMC versus Anthony, which is that like I think Anthony does a better job of like, it's fun to watch people kick Anthony's St. Castle over. And then sometimes when Will's Sane Castle gets over, you feel bad for Will.

He seems sad and you feel bad for Will. And like, I'm like, no, like I don't want you to take pity on me. Like this is again, I, again, when I like think about Brunhilda, right? Like, Brun Hilda came from this creative fiction that, resulted in one of the best things in the show to me like that's the challenge and that's the joy of it for me. Yeah. But it is like I think I just bring it again it's like I have a kind of

golden retriever energy. It's a subtle energy difference. Because like that it's like that way like yeah. And I think that because I think if you literally vocal swapped Anthony with you. Yeah. You guys were had the script and you said the same things but just the way Anthony say it'd be like yeah fuck that guy. Yeah.

But you also just expressed frustration in different ways like I've worked with both of you. It's like if either of you have a actual problem with this happening, like any of the players, we just pause, but like, oh, maybe not that way we do it, try something else. But yeah, it's just interesting. So, yeah, a lot of these are like, Will, what was your plan for this? Berches asks,

Will, besides Marbles cat vanishing in supernatural fashion, did you have any specific plans for Marble that you didn't get to? Marbles was just a bit of a Chekhov's gun. I was like, oh, the cat's gone through this transformation and now has heterochromia in the maze, and so it's like, oh, something will pay off for this. There is in the D&D system, like one of the gods

is Bast, the cat god. And so I thought that might show up at some point. And we'd have like marbles be like an avatar for this cat god. And we just never happened. So I was like, I want to have something happens. So I'll just have the cat vanish at the end. A lot of people want to know about what the other endings would have been or some of the stuff that would have happened in the other endings. I will say that if one of you would become a demigod, the plan was that you would have, like, kaijued out.

And then if you go out to fight the big space stick in the sky, the space stick, like, calls forth a champion to fight you. And I was going to have a Kethulu cameo. And like, great Kthulhu comes up to protect the space stick. And then you would have like a one-on-one kaiju brawl with Kethulu, was my point. Yeah, you're right, Matt. That doesn't sound fun at all. And then I think in that one there was going to be more drama over like, okay, you destroy the space stick. Now there's a hole in the sky and like more monsters can pour through it or how are you going to close the portal?

And there might have been an opportunity for sacrifice. That's some gerald del Toro crimson. It's like rim bullshit. I want some real Kthulhu stuff. No kajus. I've never heard you say an untoward thing about. I know. I've never heard you say a kind of.

thing about him so I was hoping that that was good. Nice try. I like the macomori scene specific ram. Insane that Charlie Huttams in that movie though. This is a question from Gog Tag Yag. How do you feel about the fact that there are quite a few people who know more about this podcast than you do?

And I think that's such an interesting question because I mean I think about stuff that I'm a big fan of and I wonder if I sometimes like remember an episode of Buffy better than somebody who like might have written it or something but like you know ultimately like with scripted stuff I know I'm probably wrong like they probably like because when I'm writing scripted stuff like nobody knows that

better than me I'm fucking deep diving and shit but this is like going up to like Colin or Ryan from whose line and being like do you remember that like the answer is probably no because you know I maybe listen to an episode two or three times max and then I I don't listen to it anymore and I don't remember it anymore. So it is, it's interesting to me that, yeah, that people who listen more than once probably do know more about the show than I do. I've heard people say that like,

I was listening to Dan Abnett, sorry, before I'm a writer, but he writes like he's written like 50 novels and he had it afterward of like one of his latest novels. But the comparison of like, oh, like every like art project is like a child or whatever. And then you have to let it out in the world. It's like it's kind of like that

if you then just forgot about your child. It's very different. It's like you put so much into anything that you're working on, whether it's this or a screenplay or a movie or whatever it is, and like it's everything. And then what is done, it's gone. Like,

in a totally different way. Like, I visit it sometimes. Sometimes it crosses my path and somebody mentions it or I think about, but like, I'm not worried about it. Yeah, I'm not worried about it.

I'm not worried about it for exactly two weeks until the next episode comes out to see what the people are saying about it. Yeah. You're like a divorced dad who sees to get it. I always laughed when it's like, You know, every once in a while, like, an actor will be on some morning show that, like, Michael can't even remember he was in this movie? I'm like, I get it out.

Yeah, I totally get it. I've only been working for, like, 20 years and there's already stuff. I'm like, I was looking at IMDB. I was like, oh, yeah, I totally realized that we did that short. Like, I don't remember this at all. From a purely pragmatic point of view, I really appreciate that people like that exist because when I have questions about it, I can just jump into the discord and be like, hey, guys, do we ever name this character?

Foley forgot the age of Timian BV, 17,000 times. Could not remember whether Sven or Tor was the one who got blinded a zillion times. and all the people in the Discord bailed me out time and time again. So, yes, that part of it's definitely very nice. And, you know, to give us some credit, if we were scripting out the season, obviously, like, we wouldn't know that shit. Maybe. Hopefully.

We would have written it down at some point. Yeah, we would have written it down. And, you know, to be precious about it, I feel like when I'm in a season playing a character, I can't afford to think that anybody might know that character better than I can. And it might be true or false. you know, who knows what the actual objective reality is. But when I'm playing a character,

I can't bring myself to believe that anybody knows what they would do better than I do. They might know more tangible facts. But just what I was like, nobody knows more about this show than we do. We've forgot it. We forgot it more than, you don't know. You only see what we've given to you. Like you're so much. That was what I was going to say, you know more about the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, it's also this. Yeah, that's a good idea. They know what the iceberg looks like better above the surface. Yeah. Well, it's also specific, it's like, yeah, you may know Henry's dad facts better than I do, but only I know what Henry would do in any given scenario, right?

Like it's like, or even just like the sort of intimate details of recording the show. Like what it feels like to do the show? Yeah. Right? Like, or like what goes through my head when I'm sitting down

and doing the prep to get my document ready? What it feels like to write the 20th, like shameful. I'm so sorry, guys, we have to delay recording because I've got the jitters again fucking email. Like no one knows any of that other than us, right? Do you ever do my will impression to you guys?

Oh, no. I don't know. It's fine. I'm running a little. I'll do it in about. 20 minutes. Got your ass. See, everyone feels bad for me.

Yeah, I feel really bad. No one feels like. If I said that about Anthony, it would have been like, man, we'll got his ass. Fuck, Anthony. Anthony's pretty punctual, though. I really appreciate that there are people like that. It's nice to know that something that we've done,

people care enough about to listen to it, God, more than once. The idea of listening to any episode more than once is so wild. I mean, the fact that some people get some comfort out of it is very, very flattering and it's very, people always say humbling. It doesn't make me humble. It makes me ego-centric. Yeah, it makes me like a monster. Absolutely.

It turns to me more into Kanye every day. And I'm very appreciative that you feed our egos in that way. So I think that's going to do it for us. Before we go, why don't we all final thoughts on season three? Matt, go first. I mean, I had a blast and I loved it. And I will be sad that Kelsey's gone, but I'm happy for whatever this is grandpa. I'm going to do in season four.

Yes. But, well, you did a great job. Thanks, man. Yeah, I don't know. Like every season, I'll miss these stupid goofballs. Except every season one, you're done with those fucking guys. Now, now, if we did a tour of these guys for us along, I'd be dead. I thought it was a great season.

I thought you handled yourself extremely well for doing, this is your first big long season. I thought it was really good. I hate that some people like you as DM more than me. And I'll carry that burden for the time. the rest of my life. No, I thought it was really, really strong. Like I said, when we were recording the finale, some of the set pieces you designed especially

are some of the most tense, interesting combat or suspense sequences the show has ever had. And I think also some of the funniest moments the show has ever done have been in this season. So I am very proud of you, and I think this was a very, very good season. That means a lot. How are you feeling about getting back into the seat?

Ambivalent. I'm psyched to be able to, like, go back to, you know, put on the old sweater, but I also know that that sweater also makes me depressed a lot. Oh, no. We shall see. Now we've got to feel bad for Anthony. Now we've got to feel bad for Anthony.

Poor little sad boy. Hey, stay in your lane. I feel like it's like getting past to another parent and this new parent has like different rules and they're more restrictive and I can't drink soda and I can't be my real goblin self. Yeah, which one of us is the cool dad? Well, now next season I get to go back to cool dad who lets me to go away with dumb shit. I'm just going to say that every time I'm going to either one of you. I'm like, yeah, Will lets me. We know what you guys are up to.

Anthony said to ask Will. Season four, I'm going to be unhinged. Great. But I thought that this has been, I really enjoyed the season of this show. I thought it was very different and it was very... I thought it was interesting. I thought it was interesting.

It was exciting to me from a TTRPG storytelling standpoint. And it's also exciting to me to see sort of the evolutionary path that we're all going. Because, you know, this show is starting to become one of the, you know, granddaddy shows in this space. Like, we got in 2019. It's been, you know, a whole pandemic happened. Yeah.

So I've always felt like, I've said this before, but like after the Suez Canal thing, there was that tweet or after the second boat was going through with like the captain of the second boat is the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever. But for me, I have always felt that like when you're doing dumb shit on the internet, that's always true.

You always have the opportunity to do the funniest shit ever. so that ethos of like all right what can we do different what's the kind of thing that we're going to change it up like you know i'm always constantly surprised and delighted by the sort of strange creative twist and turns that we take because it is i think at its core there's an energy of everyone has other stuff going on that makes us a little bit weird in that like you know and he's a celebrated video game writer you know like all this so it's just like there's just a certain angle to it i think that are you can tell it we're not giving it our whole effort now. No, no, no, it's not that. It's not, no, it's not that we are willing to do things that any other group would be like, this will sink our entire shit. Oh, that's true. Yeah, they're reliant on people liking them in a particular way that we're not necessarily. Well, we're like, we've all been hated on the internet. So we say nothing new for us. So it's just very exciting. You think you could hurt me more than Gamergate did? Fucking fly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm like actually trying not to get a little bit emotional, but I, you know,

it's the privilege of my life to work on this show. And I, I love you guys and, uh, yeah, so it's, it's just every day I, I know I complain and stuff about that when I'm like, want to sleep in or don't want to actually have to do work, because God forbid. But yeah, it's like I love that I work in a place where I'm allowed to fail and I'm allowed to watch others fail and like laugh at the failures and like, and like lifts each other up and I can't imagine a job where I would laugh more than this one. So it just, it, it totally makes my life. working at a factory where you had to laugh some sort of laugh factory. Wait, say that again.

And also thank you everyone who's continual. If you're hearing this, that means you are a kind of person that we did not think would exist, I think, six years ago. But you care enough to still listen to our silly attempts at humor and storytelling and all that kind of stuff. And that means the absolute world to us and my mortgage. Or you've accidentally sorted Spotify by newest and you've never heard us before. In which case, I'm so glad you don't know how to use the UI of Spotify. I'll just say

This season was, I mean, like, this has been one of the biggest joys of my creative life was to do this season. And to have all of you guys trust me with the keys to the car, so to speak, after five years of fucking straight heat from Anthony. Like, it was intimidating, but I was really, really excited to do it. And, like, this is like, there are a couple projects that are, like, I've worked on a ton of stuff. Like, again, VGHS is very special to my heart. Like, this is, will I always be special to my heart doing this show? And, like, I have always kind of. wanted to do something like this and take this kind of role on and it was challenging and

really difficult at times really, really thrilling as well. And like I'm just so happy with how it all came out. But just like the way in which I'm a very externally collaborative person, I think I'm better working in a group than I am in my own. And this season was just a reminder of that over and over and over again where I was like, I could bring a certain amount of prep. And then it was just the alchemy that would cut, like, and once I realized that I could really trust the magic that you guys were going to bring to the table every single time, like, it was just, it was like flying.

It was like being able to do this show with you guys. So, like, it was just really, really one of the privileges of my life to be. If I, as DM, shit the bed, arguably again. Would, are you interested in doing this again in the future, maybe? If you, next time you need a break, give me a call, I'm there. Like, I'm happy to do it again.

I, and I absolutely want to keep doing it on the Patreon to keep like, you know, like, because I, it was frustrating because I, It chops up. I felt, I felt, like, with this last combat that we did, I was like, I'm like, oh, I finally get how to do this job. Like, I was like, oh, okay, like, I can, yeah.

So I want to thank you guys so much for just for letting me do this. You know, trusting me, like I said, again, with the shift in roles and taking, like, you said, Freddie, like, you know, taking a big risk. And just, like, when I came out and was like, hey, I want to do a fucking 1950s thing, being like, okay, yeah, let's go for it. So, yeah, anyway, and thank you as well to the audience for just like, it's just been, I don't, I don't know what I'll say. It was just like an incredibly special thing that I will always look back on really, really fondly.

At least until you play Freddy Wong's season, cyberpunk chum town. Yeah, what is that happening, baby? Season six, chum town. Not five? No, no, no, no. You need two full seasons to prepare chum town? No, no, Anthony, the people need two full seasons to be ready for chum town. Sure, sure.

Beth, do you want to take us out? For sure. Flo, Flo, asks, I'm going to take us out with this question. I've been wondering about some subplots recently and hoping for any additional clarity you guys can provide, specifically Wart Watch, Kitty Corner, and that time of the month. So please to give an update to all three at the same time. They're all bleeding. And with that, thank you for tuning. You know,