Dwarf Fortress Roundtable - Ep. 26: It’s been a whole year.

Episode Date: March 22, 2020

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Welcome to Dwarf Fortress Roundtable, the podcast for all things Dwarfey. I'm Jonathan. I'm Roland. I'm Tony. At the time we're recording this, it is the 8th of March, and tomorrow is the one-year anniversary of us releasing our first episode. So, hooray! Amazing. I can't believe that we're actually doing this for a whole year now. It feels like just two weeks.

Think about all the releases we've had to talk about since then. One. You would think that you were being a little sarcastic there, but actually we've had a lot of releases in the last... Hey, when you look at it in comparison of like two years, of the previous two years, hey, yeah, it's pretty good. You know, it's 100% more releases. That's awesome. Well, then wait for next year.

And we're just powering through them now. What do we got? One, two, three, and now four. 4704. It's a big. It's a big one. I think this is probably the last one for some time. I guess it looks like all the major bugs have been worked out.

One of the bug fixes was that it stopped dwarves from silently dissolving their marriages when they make a close friend. I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. Like, do they spend more time with a new friend than their partner? No, I think it's along the lines of, let's say that I meet someone in town that I really, really dig and we've become really, really fast friends. We're just, just pals. We're great mates. I come home and I just stop being married. I pack up all my stuff.

I move. I know. I could just imagine you get home, hey, who was that you were with? Oh, it's just a friend. Oh, yeah. I mean, is it, like, is it jealousy? Is that what was happening here? And no, they're not jealous anymore.

It sounds like it was even weirder than that. I think it sounds like that I come home, I tell my wife, I'm sorry, dear, we're no longer married. Although, it says silently. I've met a friend. I have a friend. I am moving out. Your good friend from the Niagara Falls area, or a real one. So that sounded interesting.

That would have been an interesting bug to have discovered in the logs. because it could have happened to me and I just never noticed it. My dwarves may be getting married and divorced all the time and I just never realize it. I mean, I've noticed that the world generation dwarfs tend to have like a ton of different partners. I looked into one necromancer

and he married and divorced people like it was his hobby. It was amazing. He had like 10 or more wives that was a bug because that seemed a bit excessive to me. so um what are we thinking you know with regards to some of these bugs do we feel like have you guys had a chance to play 4704 at all i have not i've not i've been playing the linux newbie pack and it is still on 4402 i believe sorry 4702

i also have still like a super early version i don't even know which one i'm playing 4703 it is because I just downloaded the lazy new pack and then I saw that more stuff came up and well but I have to check it out for example I hear stop charged collisions from teleporting people through walls that was in fact something we talked about in the water cannon episode right oh right because the circus got teleported through the wall and killed his fort. Oh, well, that's good news for that, isn't it? So now the water cannon is perfectly doable and safe. Short aside here on teleporting through walls and stuff. Okay, so I had a couple things, weird things happen. So one, I had an undead, you know, where they kind of like come hanging on your map for a while. Then all of a sudden they just appeared inside my walls. I'm not really sure how they got there. Maybe it was this bug that we were just talking about.

That was fascinating because that was the end of the fort. Once they figured that out, they were, they were in. But I saw that goblins can climb walls or invaders could climb walls. And so suddenly I was, I was worried about something I've never had to worry about before, I think. So, tell me more about that if you guys know anything. I do not, unfortunately. I have never had anybody climb my walls to get into my fortress, But possibly it's because I've never used walls as an exterior defense for my fortress. My defense always tends to be put a drawbridge in my entrances and have somebody pulling a lever to shut the doors whenever someone evil comes onto my map.

Yeah. I think that it's definitely not a new thing. I think I had the same problem quite a time back when I was. I thought that goblins could not climb. At first, I was sure they could, but they never did. So I stopped walling everything off and putting floors on top. And one day, they climbed over my wall and budgeted some of my animals. And I was like, no, no, no.

But I think there is something you cannot climb. For example, smooth walls or smoothed pillars cannot be climbed. That's why I always try to smooth, you know, I do these dwarven toilets and I always smooth all of my walls because if you do not do that, when someone is thrown into that, they can hang onto the wall and climb out again and we do not want that. I thought that a, what's it called? A block wall, a rock block wall is actually not climbable, but I, I could be wrong on that. One thing I heard to do to keep people from climbing over walls is to put a floor extended from the top of the wall so that it basically is a, what was it called a cantilever or a overhang of sorts?

Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a good way to keep cats fenced into your yard is if you put a overhang that they can't climb over. I think that might work for goblins as well. Yeah, that should work. Real life cats, not game cats. That should work. And I think it's if you cannot smooth any walls or you cannot build rock block.

No, wait, rock block walls are climbable, but they're really hard to climb. So if you make an entrance that is absolutely impenetrable, impenetrable, Yeah, I can't get through it. Good. So they can't get through it. And then the overhang is the easiest possibility. Yeah. I think you might be right.

I've been shoving in the overhangs in it. Everything seems to be ducky now. There's one thing about walls that I have still not figured out. And that is how to create a second Z level on top of the first Z level. I get my dwarves out there, they build a wall, and then I want to build a second level because it intrigues me the idea of building towers. But no matter what I have done,

and I have looked online and I've seen some tutorials, not video tutorials, but tutorials that were written out. And for whatever reason, I just can't figure out how to get my dwarves to build a second layer on top of the first layer. Have you built another up staircase on top of it? So you build on the first Z layer where everybody's rocking. Build some up staircases. And then you go up a Z layer and then you build an up down on top of that up.

And then Bob's your uncle. On the top of a wall? No, on the top of the lap. So you build a step ladder next to the wall. And then not a step ladder. You build an upstairs next to your wall. And then you go up a Z level. And then on that next Z level, which is the top of your wall you build.

on top of that up staircase you built, you build an up down, and then it'll let them do what they need to do on top. But they have to have, you have to build staircases up, basically. Now, when you say build an up staircase next to the wall, do you mean, so let's say that I have block one is sitting right beside block two,

or sorry, square one is right beside square two. Square one contains part of my wall. Square two is beside my wall. Are you saying square two is where the up staircase should be and not? That's right. Yep. Okay, so that could be my issue.

So if you just picture it, like next to your wall, you're building a staircase to let them climb to the top of the wall, basically is what you're doing. Okay, I'm building a staircase. I'm not building stairs into the wall. See, that's, I have always mentally considered it to be carving the upstaircase out of the wall. Maybe that's why I've not ever been able to get them to work very well. I always do a down staircase through the floor and then up-down staircases for everything else. I don't even know that I've ever successfully gone up into an isolated chamber from within my fortress. One thing I'd say is make sure when you're building those stairs on the dirt or, you know, outside on your ground floor,

make sure that you use the up staircase, because if you build an up-down, it'll punch a hole down too. and then if you decide to say flood it at some other point in time like I've done you end up flooding anything that's underneath it I was like whoopsie daisy I can hear the pain in your voice and there goes the fort because I built one of these things where I had a huge pan and then I built this giant wall around it and then I was going to flood the pan and then have this little tower in the middle of the bridge where they could come and go and I didn't realize all my little up-down staircases were holes and so when I flooded it

Bye-bye, Fortress. What are you going to do? Has anybody else experienced any of the new fun from the new release, any of the new features that you've examined? Well, I tried looking into the massive amount of, undead lieutenants hanging around in my tavern I could not figure out why they came but I do know that I have two towers and those two towers send the same people back and forth between them and my fortress are these undead lieutenants like they they are called frozen hunters oh yeah necromancer experience experiments I I guess, but the experiment is either allied to the necromancer and works for them

or actually goes back to the civilization because the experiment is still somewhat of an normal person. They're just really ugly. And not all experiments count as undead because they're still living creatures. They're just really ugly. but the frozen hunters are all undead they all died at some point and got brought back

from the dead by then respective necromances and they usually chilled in their towers but as soon as I opened my tavern they streamed in terrify my people try to pursue some sort of hidden agenda

to steal my artifacts and fail and leave. And they do that over and over again. By now I actually know the people by name because it's like 15 people and they come again and again. And I also had an old man or something, a blind old man that had white skin and was actually blind. and his job name was just lieutenant and he came every year for just some drinks and he shared stories and stuff and always tried to steal a necklace for me every single year he came to my fortress drank my beer and tried to steal my necklace bad for him i actually locked that necklace away because come on i know he's after this necklace but he tried to

it again every single year then left because he couldn't get it and came back a few months later and tried it again and it got so intense with that dude that he had become really good

friends with several of my dwarfs and he is one of the best friends of my tavern performer and he got killed in a goblin attack and I tried to get him into the fort because he was just trying to leave and I was like, no, not, no, don't leave yet. But you have to imagine, this guy is actually evil.

He tries to steal from me and I try to protect him. It didn't work. He got killed. So these undead lieutenant, sorry, these frozen hunter undead lieutenants that keep coming in and try to steal your artifacts every, every, periodically. These are not members of your fortress. These are visitors, correct? Yep, yep.

and they come back. So I know that, for a fact, there is one elf, frozen hunter, Fisher elf or something. And he comes back. I know this guy and he actually stole something from me and he wears this bone ring,

which is made in my fortress. And he wears it proudly. Oh, that's hardcore. I'm a jerk. See, look what I stole from you. I was wondering if you can sick your dungeon master on these visitors and have them arrest them and throw them in the lockup. You can always just send your military to kill him.

Oh, the thing is, I wanted to just kill him, but he's actually a legendary dodger and maize man. So all the frozen people are really good at fighting. Oh, yeah. And since they're undead, I'm a bit scared of them and as you said John yes

I wanted to get him into jail because well he is a criminal you know and he actually spent a bit of time at jail but do you think that my dungeon master was clever enough to just take back the ring

no that guy spent several months in my jail because well one time he punched somebody and then again he saw my ring but he still has my ring I had a bloated corpse come to town which I mean is as charming as it sounds

and you know it was the you know it was exactly one of these little necromancer creations but everyone was cool with it like apparently it was like super super friendly he she I'm not sure I can't remember super super friendly ended up getting married to a dwarf in the in the fortress having kids but this one was a legendary fish cleaner

so that's pretty cool so you know there are happy endings here apparently you can you know if you have the right combination of things that you know everyone can be happy even with bloated corpse so yeah that's pretty great yeah you know

so you basically have an Nagel worship in your fortress well that's lovely it's a little terrifying but it's all good in the end oh Lord the bloated corpse. Yeah, that's gross. Okay, so anybody else want to speak about the new release?

We've got anything else we'd like to cover on that? I think the one thing I haven't tested yet is I've just this very second generated a new world with the 4404. I am super curious to see if it still lets the necromancers migrate into the fort because that's kind of irritating, kind of ready for that to get patched out.

so I was hoping that that was going to get patched into this release, but who knows? I did not see that in the release notes. I didn't see it either, so I was a little nervous about that. I fear it's still in. Oh, darn. Have you added that as a bug report on the Bay 12 games bug listing? I saw TOTE say something like necromancers weren't supposed to show up to your fort in waves. Ha, ha, ha.

That's a bug, and we'll be fixed. So I was like, oh, okay. So, yeah, I didn't do it. I figured they, you know, they sorted it out. Now, that's, you know, that's one thing with them showing up. But the idea of a butcher immediately reanimating the cow's head that he just created by butchering the cow, that does seem like a, seems like an actual bug that might need to be reported. Yeah, I mean, I don't care if the necromancers hang around.

What I don't like is them reanimating everything in the full. just because they see it, you know, just because they see a bearskin rug, I don't need to have that reanimated. Thank you very much, killing everyone. That's what seems to be happening. Like, I was playing on one, and I hadn't, I guess I was not paying attention, and I'd put one of them in my military, and we'd had this really nasty fight with a forgotten beast, and it, you know, had taken down ten dors already in the whole squad. So we finally did it. This necromancer at the time didn't know it was a necromancer, got in the killing blow. And then, of course, immediately proceeds to reanimate the frozen beast or the

the forgotten beast corpse which then goes on to wipe out almost half the fortress until he locked it in the dining room like come on you know like what is this is not cool well if it ever if I ever have that happened then I will I will probably put a bug report in there even if it gets rejected you know that's fine but but it might be noteworthy to to consider of that a bug.

Hey, have you guys ever seen this when you've done a new embark? Because I'm embarking into my new 4704 map here. And the first thing that I see is you have located Nal Gossmer, a layer. I've never gotten that before. Oh. What have I found? Yeah, that means... L-A-Y-E-R or L-A-I-R.

L-A-I-R. Yeah. It's not like a big chicken. Yeah. that means. Well, no, I meant more like a layer of stone, a layer of felsite, a layer of, which makes total sense. No, in this case, layer isn't like, layer, is in like a thing where other things live.

Yeah, I'm just like, what is that? So maybe there's Cyclops or Hydra or something that is a lot of them named animal, a giant cougar. That doesn't sound good. Oh, talking about a giant cougar. I have two things to talk about. In my current fortress, people always make detailed stonecraft, statues, engravings about the very same jaguar. What?

It's like, I don't even remember. It's some jaguar that was somewhere in a swamp, and he killed a human adventurer. and they always make the same statues. It doesn't matter who I tell to make a statue of whatever material. It ends up being this stupid jaguar. So my whole fortress is completely dedicated to this named animal. Sounds like you got yourself a mascot. I don't know what's wrong.

I just want to, if I want a statue that is not. this giant stupid cat, I have to make it on my own and tell them specifically what I want. But if I don't, they just make the cat again. And the most amazing thing is you can see what the artwork is called, right? So they usually make new artworks randomly generated and then something stupid pops up. And you could imagine that this jaguar has one specific artwork which they choose again and again and again. But no, no, they randomly generate an artwork which is this jaguar. I have like 200 pieces of differently named artworks that are the very exact same thing.

Do you know what I'm talking about? they get obsessed right and they just keep you had a narwhal once right that your fortress was obsessed over tony uh was that me i don't know i i've had narwhals but i don't know if they were obsessed maybe maybe i've forgotten i seem to forget things a lot these days yeah but my my dwarfs really dig this cat and i am really annoyed by it because usually i like to make statues and plaster them over my whole fortress and then just check on the statues to see what they did. But this is kind of, you know, boring because I know it's the cat again. When you say that it's the same cat, do you mean that it is the exact same description

for all of these things, no matter what the name is? Yes. Or is it like one, the giant jaguar is killing Eurist Mick's stupid dwarfs? And then another one is the giant jaguar is chasing his own tail around and around. No. If you look at a statue, it says the name of the artwork. So, for example, the golden apple. This picture relates to, right?

And the artwork always is something different. So it's not the same artwork. But the text afterwards is always, this artwork relates to blah, blah, blah, the jaguar, which killed this human, this particular human in the swarm of whatever. It's always the same, but it's... Okay, it sounds to me like you have actually found a bug. I'm feeling, bug. Yeah, so if it's saying that it's the Crusader's apple and it's a picture of a jaguar,

and then it says it's the broom of kindness, and it's a jaguar, and it says it is the diamond stone of really McClain. sware dwarf and it's a giant jaguar. I think you got a bug, especially if it's the exact same description every time. Okay, so yeah, I'm going to report that. Yeah. And the other thing... Make sure to upload a save,

the save directory of it as well, because that helps them troubleshoot the bug, I think. Yes, okay. Is this vanilla? It's lazy new pack, but basically vanilla, yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is,

I had captured a bronzo colossus to use as defense against goblins. And that guy was who, like he wiped out two sieges of goblins without me doing anything. And I was amazed by it. And I always got him back because I had like a specific contraption where he would kill all goblins and then try to kill my people and then get caged again. so I would put it back as you know where he belongs and as soon as the goblins arrive again I would just do it all over and I looked into the legends viewer to like check up on him because he he vanished at some point and I saw that he had knowledge about some secret he had secret knowledge like a necromancer he was listed as a necromancer in my Legends Viewer, you know? The Colossus was?

Yes. A Colossus? Yes. Has science gone too far? I mean, I don't get it. I've never seen any corpses. I never seen... I feel like that might be a bug too.

Yeah, I bet. But this... So as soon as I opened Legends Viewer and I put like Necromancer in this little box, so it filters out everything that isn't a necromancer. I saw his name like blah blah blah the burning and ferno and i was like wait a second that's my that's my boy

what are you doing here and he actually had secret knowledge he this bronzo colossus obtained secret knowledge and i don't know how or when because it never showed up anywhere in the in the in the detail list okay well you've you've given us a great segue there roland because i wanted to bring up the legends viewer now i had first done my exploring of legends and the backstories in a dwarf fortress whenever Kiefer came on the first

time back last Halloween and was talking about the stories that he had uncovered in Legends mode. So I had looked at Legends mode and yeah, it was fun, it was neat, but it seemed kind of unwieldy. And then my next thing to do was to look at the Legends browser.

And that was neat. It was much more convenient than Legends mode. And whoever created the website for the Legends browser, the, you know, the code for the Legends browser, kudos to them. I really should know their name at this point because I'm talking about them. But in any case, that was great. But then I discovered Legends viewer. And that just has blown my mind.

I've really just discovered it about, about four or five days ago. I did the Legends Plus export through D.F. Hack, and Legends viewer is just amazing. All of the stinking detail that's in there, family trees. You've got the annals of civilization's wars listed chronologically with great detail, and everything is hyperlinked, and the filters are great. You have a scrollable list of the names of wars and battles and raids and. and rampages and civilizations and everything. And it's just awesome. I love it. Yeah, it really brings it to life, doesn't it?

Yes, it is so cool. And you can use it while you're in a game where Legends mode, the big drawback of that is you actually have to retire your fortress to actually go into Legends mode. Well, make sure you do your export of it before you start playing a fort. Otherwise, it's kind of annoying. I did. I did. Yeah, I know.

I just realized that. I started playing and I was like, oh, I don't have the Legends mode thing done. So I, of course, had to go do the copy-save shuffle thing. But, yeah, it's pretty neat, isn't it? Yeah, I really, really dig it. And I actually put in our pre-show notes that I wanted to talk about, Legends Viewer, and happily, Roland mentioned it to itself. Now, it looks like that that was originally done,

the Legends Viewer was originally created by a person, named Parker 147 some time ago back around 2010 and it is now being maintained by a username Cromtech and it is being updated as of two days ago I think was the latest

commit on GitHub so there's there's legends viewer and legends browser so there's two separate thing. Right, Legends viewers what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'm always going to mix up but one of them is a Java thing that you end up viewing with your browser and the other one

like a much a different thing with its own application or whatever. Yeah. The other one's written in C Sharp and JavaScript

the Legends Viewer is the Legends browser does require that you access a local host URL link. It's not a standalone although I do have to say

that it looks like to get the full effect out of Legends Viewer you have to have DF Hack going where Legends browser does not require DFHack and I'm going to let you guys talk about this

for a minute I'll look up the Legends browser creator. One thing I'd say is just an addendum to what I said is if you use meth style sets, probably this isn't relevant for 4704 since I don't think we have a meth packaged set yet. But he has a mod that includes a librarian's workshopper. It's a workshop that you can put in your library. And it will let you access Legends mode from the main game. And he's put all kinds of disclaimers on it saying it's,

unstable or whatever, but I'm a madman with nothing to lose. And so I've had no problems with it when I did it before. But yeah, that's also out there. So if you do have this amazing Ford, you don't want to do anything. And you're using meth, you can always just build that. Take your chances.

So it looks like Legends browser, the one that is web browser based, is maintained by Robert Janetsko. And it is Robert Janetsko is his GitHub. GitHub, what do you call account?

What do you call it whenever? Like, mine's GitHub slash Johann Tux. Is that an account? Is that a channel on GitHub? Okay. Yeah. Anyway, it's a GitHub.com slash Robert Janescoe slash Legends browser is the website-based one. And he is actually updating his right now, too.

The last commit was seven days ago. Exciting times. It has been forked 16 times with 50 stars where Legends, viewer, I think, has been forked 11 times and has considerably fewer stars, so I don't know. That is a lot of forking code. Yes, it is. Sorry.

It sounds like that a... I had to go there. Sounds like if we're basing it on GitHub stats, that Legends browser, the web-based one, looks like it might be a little more popular, at least with the modding community, than Legends viewer. But they're both great. right. They're both just really nice to be able to look at what's going on in the history of your, of your little universe. So I wanted to throw that in. And at the end of the day,

isn't variety of what we want. I think it's really cool. I love all the community tools. I think it's amazing watching people start scrambling to get DF hack up and running. Speaking of which, there was a post of somebody doing live DF hack hacking kind of like watching one of the devs go through it in real time

and do sorting out pretty neat Just on YouTube? Yeah, or Twitch or YouTube or something like that. If you can find that and put it on the Discord server, I will put it in the show notes. Yeah, I think, I don't know

if it was like a live you know, one and done kind of thing or if it's something that's going on, but pretty neat. It's such a shame whenever they don't release on YouTube or make the videos available for those after the fact, because

chances are very low that I'm going to be available at the same time that someone's doing something awesome like that. Yep, I hear you, yeah. I feel that. As a European, I am mostly asleep when Americans are streaming.

So, yeah, I never get the stream. Let alone people from Australia. Yeah, that's tricky, in it. So I started my new embark here, and I found the layer, and it and it belongs to some sort of cougar that has a name. and so he looks really scary from all like clicking on him and viewing him he looks like something that I want to not be near

but it's kind of cool the layer is basically just one ramp down and then there's a big carved out underground space where he's hanging out and this is in your embark location yeah so what I did is I just built a floor over the top of his embark ramp out so he's cozy at home now

it doesn't seem to bother him and I'm hoping we can It's a huge monster in the form of a cougar. Her hair is tan. Her skin is a crew. Her eyes are yellow. And she is walled in. So I hope she has a nice time in there.

Have you ever come across a lair on an embark location like that? I tried. I really tried to have it happened, but it didn't really work. I only seen them in adventure mode So this is not new This is something that has existed for a while Yes, yes, yes

I think so, yeah That's cool That's cool But there are no items in the lair Are there? No, I don't see anything Just this wolf or Cougar or whatever it is I then tried to spin up

I retired the fortress and then brought it back up again, trying to do it. It seems like there's some problems with Legends, with my export and Legends mode export. So I'll either keep trying or I'll give up. You know, I retired a fortress to generate the Legends Mode viewer data. And then I came back in, and whenever I unretired it, all of a sudden, there's a huge problem with my asthma all over the fortress. There's a dead troglodyte head that is sitting right amongst my primed. Mary Mason and

Crafts Dwarfs shops and it just keeps spewing out my asthma, no idea I'll clean it up but there are other places in my fortress that are spewing out my asthma as well that don't seem to have anything there that's causing it so I'm not sure what's going

on with that, but Is it forbidden? You know, I haven't taken a look at that. Maybe I should check that. That's a good idea. At least for the necromancer head. Sorry, for the for the for the troglodyte head. For the stuff that I can't find

the reason that it's spewing my asthma, I'm not sure what to do about that. You can also create a quantum stockpile and use the atom smasher to deal with it if you really want. To deal with. To deal with your thing

that they won't move. Right, right, yeah. I've found that can be a good way. Like if they won't, oh, and do you, or do you have a like a corpse stockpile? I do. I have a corpse stockpile out. I have a corpse stockpile

outside. Are your burrows still on? Is it full? No, it is not full. Yeah, I checked that just to make sure. How about the burrows? What about the burrows? Do you have your burrow turned on so they can't get to the stockpile?

No, no, I don't. Okay. These are all things that have happened to me. It is interesting. In the week, I think it's like a week, week and a half whenever you retire a fortress and then you bring it back, it advances. the calendar like about a week, a week and a half. And I think that is to prevent you just from retiring it and then unretiring it over and over again.

I like it. You know what I wish would be, this is my feature request, would be I'm playing a world, I've had a couple fortresses, things are going well, I've had some battles. I feel like I've made a mark on the world itself. I would love to be able to hit a button in fast forward a hundred years. Yes. And just have it go world gen itself off based on what I did for the next 150 years. That is my feature request. I would love that. I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree

with you. I try to mod the game so that there is actually a fourth mode that you can go into that goes back into the word generation. But I am way too stupid and I don't know how to code. So it keeps not doing what I want. That is a very good idea. I love the idea that you can like generate the world for just five years, then build a massive fortress somewhere and then go like 200 years in the future and then just see what happened to your dwarfs and how things turned out and stuff like that. I love that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would love to see that. I don't know if it's possible with the modding tools currently. It feels like it maybe should be. I don't know. would be very interested if anyone is listening and comments on this.

Otherwise, I'm just going to keep asking people. That brings up an idea for, I don't know if it would be appropriate for the podcast or maybe a YouTube video or something like that. I've not gotten into any modding whatsoever. I know that you have Roland. Have you, Tony? No, I haven't really done anything like that. So it would be neat if Roland could share his screen and go over, you know,

some basics about what modding is. is and the files that you edit and how Raw's work or something like that, because I'm interested in it. That sounds like something that we might be able to share with listeners or viewers if it's on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Would you be willing to do that, Roland? Of course. I mean, I am not good at it, so I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Well, see, that's how you generate comments Do something that other people think is wrong Isn't that Cunningham's Law?

I think it's got a name. Yeah, it does. It does have a name. So if you can put on your thick skin armor, then you can learn from the comments, maybe. Sure, I could definitely do that. So just show how to generate a three-eyed raven, for example. Yes, that sounds cool.

We'll talk about that offline and maybe see if we can find a spot that would be good for a video. Because we have had some listeners ask us about YouTube content. And I believe that we have created a DF Roundtable YouTube channel, but there's absolutely nothing on it. It'd be neat to have a video or two. Yeah, I've talked about doing something on YouTube in the past for it. But, you know, kind of listening to some of the comments that I guess, who's that guy that does that? the YouTube channel that we like with the drawings and the cool stories. Can't remember his name anyway, that guy that we talk about too much.

Yeah, what's his name? Yeah. He who's definitely going to be named Krug Smash. So he was saying in his Q&A, he took to drawing and narrative and highly edited versions of like a let's play just because that's kind of what makes sense. Because I've kind of run into the same thing, like a let's dream indoor fortress. There's just so much sitting around Indoor Fortress. There's so much just, okay, let's wait.

Okay. Oh, be your past. Okay. You know, it's like for a streaming thing, it's just not particularly interesting. And also, if you're in Aski mode, I mean, I think the appeal is hugely limited to somebody that's not familiar with it. You know, like, oh, that comma. What's the comma? What's the comma's grass? Oh, okay. Okay. What's the one fourth? The one fourth is tree roots. Oh, okay. Okay. You know, it's just like it's too much. So that's why I would just, I want to do it. It just seems like it's a lot of time. That was a long explanation for that. Wait, wait. Yes. I mean, it sounds like you are right, but you are not. I am very sorry. Contro mercy, yes. You are both right and wrong.

You are the quantum Door Fortress player. My favorite, my favorite streamer. Actually, so the reason why I're playing Door Fortress is because of him. And he played it on a stream, on the, I don't know, two to three hour stream. So there is no cutting. There is no editing in his videos. It's pure unadulted dwarf fortress. And I mean, okay, sure, sure.

What was his name? Joel from Vine Sauce. That's right, Vine Sauce. I thought it was Vine Something, but yeah. sometimes nothing is really happening you know it's sometimes it just goes very slow but for some reason he manages to just smooth over over that bit and it feels like there's always something going on and he goes like yeah we have to do that we have to do that now we're mining now there's stuff to do like he always has something to do and that is really fascinating even

though in the game itself is nothing happening instead of just dwarfs mining. But honestly, if you like the game and if you know what's happening, and if you can present it in a very specific manner, so that the lame parts, so to say, are not without any action, then go for it, man. Stream. Stream all you want. I'd watch it. And I think that for rewatchability,

Yeah, it's better if the person is able to present it well. But you know what? If you want to stream, you know, we have the tools. We have the outlet. Most likely someone's going to watch your streaming of your video. You know, and if you only have three people watch it, then, you know, so be it. It's, unless you're actually trying to make a living out of it, so be it. If you only have three people watch it, three people watch it.

If you don't have anybody watch it, you at least you put something out there. But I don't tend to agree with Krug Smash. that I prefer the more concise, edited-down versions of the Door Fortress videos, because I rarely, rarely ever have more than a half hour at a time that I can spend doing something like that. Yeah, yeah. You know, I prefer the editing and certainly some of the other thought that goes into the stuff that guys like CrooksMash do.

I think it's cool. I think it's cool of people in a stream, too. I love it. You know, the exposure is good. And different things work for different people. so hey man anybody wants to create something and do something I'm all for it sounds awesome that doesn't take away from the fact though that I think that videos about modding might be of of interest oh I think you're right I think that'd be pretty cool and I watched a little bit of

that stream of the guy doing the DFX stuff and I was like that's pretty cool I don't know what debugging tool he was using it looked like the Door Fortress debugging tool I don't know if they have their own tool for debug that they used but it was pretty neat looking and just as a Coda to the other bit. Nucrium is someone who records and publishes, you know, two, three-hour videos of Dwar Fortress and several other games, and I do like his videos, although I rarely sit and watch it at one setting. It's something that gets paused, and I'll come back to it at a later time.

You can get the whole family around the TV, make them watch a three-hour stream of Door Fortress. You should see my family bolt whenever I pull up a Door Fortress video. on YouTube. Pull it up in the living room, and it's like the whole, even the dog runs and says, no. It's because you're, the dog's worried you're going to make leather shoes out of him. Or soap. All right. This soap smells funny, and where's the dog?

All right. So we're coming up on the top of the hour, and anybody else have anything they would like to cover for this episode? I think we got it. What do you think? Yeah, by the next one, let's see if we can get some 44 or 4704 world's gened and things are starting to stabilize. We can actually talk about real world experiences in the new era. Sounds good.

Sounds good. All right. Well, I guess that we will see everybody next time. And happy fortressing. See you later. Bye, bye. This has been. Dwarf Fortress Roundtable, the podcast for all things Dwarfee.

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