Dwarf Fortress Roundtable - Ep. 57: In Which Complaints Are Lodged Against the Undead

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

We are all over the place this episode, but a recurring theme seems to be undead attacks . Future of the Fortress with message about renaming the mason workshopPeridexisErrant's tutorialDas Tastic Tutorial

Warning, this episode of Dwarf Fortress Roundtable has very little structure, and may induce a confused urge to complain about undead sieges. Welcome to Dwarf Fortress Roundtable, the podcast for all things Dwarfie. I'm Jonathan. I'm Roland. I'm Tony. And we are back for another episode. episode to talk about Dwarf Fortress. Yay! Let's do it. So it is just after the start of October, and we were talking about this off air a moment ago.

But I found it very interesting that we are getting a change of the name of the Mason's Workshop. It is going to be... Is it Stone Worker or Stone Cutter? I really hope it's stone cutter. I think that it is the stone workers' workshop and the person who does it is a stone cutter. All right. That's what I'm talking about. The Simpsons.

So, so fill me in on this reference of the Simpsons because I, obviously I haven't seen, I haven't seen an episode of the Simpsons of probably 10 years. So I just looked it up. The episode is called Homer the Great and it's season six, episode 12, so still within the good zone. of Simpsons episodes, what is it, like season eight, season one to season eight or something like that. And the premise is Homer, you know, he, you know, I think it's kind of like a playing on the idea of the Masons. And then Homer gets to join them.

And there's a, it's classic Simpsons. There's a song about the stone cutters and what they do. And yeah, anyway, well, well worth checking out. And I really hope that Tarn and Zach are throwing in this classic Simpsons reference. Okay, so this is from the Bay 12 forums, the Future of the Fortress Update for October. The question is, the new video of Zach playing a desert fort, has a stoneworker's workshop, seemingly, instead of a Mason's workshop. And he's asking, what's the deal with that? And then Tarn responds with, yeah, we redid all the stone jobs and names.

The whole Mason thing has been bothering me for years and years. He likes it better now. So there are now stone cutters, stone carvers, engravers, and masons. Stoneworker is the skill group word, like woodcutter or craft swarf. So it made the most sense for the shop to be the stoneworker shop. So it could almost be called the stone carvers shop, but then the engraving for slabs would have to be done over at the crafts. So he's also going to be mixing up who gets to do what jobs. Because some things that are done in the stone crafts, the craft store shop, there's overlap with Mason.

See, it says Mason is going to just be used for stone building and placement. Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense because masonry is not sculpture. Yeah, it's making the walls, isn't it? That's the way I'd always thought of it, my mind. It was the people who built the actual walls and put the bricks together and then cement between it and all that kind of jazz. So I'll put a link in the show notes to the future of the fortress. It's also linked from the Bay 12 Games site for this month's update.

Yeah, that's going to be kind of neat. I have found that I end up using, let me rephrase that. I agree that I have looked at the craft dwarfs shop and some of the jobs that they do and go, well, geez, that should be over there in the mason shop because it's utilitarian. This isn't a craft job. Making a slab isn't necessarily, who makes the slab? The mason workshop. And the craft swath carves it.

I do believe. Yeah. Okay, that does make sense. we also got a question do we think this will separate wall-smoving and wall engraving but I really doubt it because it's like deeper down the road of raws you know

it's not going to I don't think it's going to split separate smoothing out I think that smoothers and engravers well no take that back I take that back this is a quote from Tarn Adams let me put the echo in the God voice here stone cutters do the fortifications and smoothing while the engravers still engrave walls and floors so those are going to be specialized things now

because right now the engravers both do the smoothing and the engraving of the walls of floors right I see so we get some wall smoother dwarfs and some engraved dwarfs that will subtly change my strategy it will certainly change Klino Dev's craft dwarf

embark profile. I'll tell you what I use that one after either it was our last recording or maybe a conversation we'd had on the Discord fired into that one all ready to go

and I've rarely have I died faster in a door fortress scenario than that one. So I guess there's some more research that needs to be done. Yeah. Well, they're all dead. Okay. Well.

So I'm sure there's a strategy there that can be used because Kleeneodev is not mean. So he doesn't strike me as cruel. So there's something I'm not getting. I've had three fortresses now that I've used Kleeneau Dev's Embark Profile, the Craftswarf, Embark Profile. The Crafts Lords, I guess it is, Embark Profile. Okay. And two of them have ended in two. years one of them is still going all right but the reason they ended in two years has nothing to do

with the embark profile that part was going really well i'm very happy with that uh the reason that they ended in two years is with like 30 dwarves in my fortress before two years is up i keep getting invasions of undead um that'll do yeah so yeah i feel you here in this particular world so i'm wondering if this is an issue with the world that's a two hundred and 50-year-old world to start with, and I have started my three embarks in three very widely spaced locations on the map. It is a small map. It's not a pocket, but it is a small map. So that may have something to do with it. But, uh, yeah. So, yeah, there's something about that where you can have these scenarios where the undead get just a bit too powerful.

And then end up wiping everyone else out. And then all you have is basically just undeads everywhere. Hey, I got a question for you guys. So, you know, I said that this is my first two fortresses have died from undead invasions. Well, I'm on my third fortress in this world. And I had, during the beginning of year two, I had the announcement again saying, everybody get away the dead walk. And I thought, well, great.

You know, it's happening again. I'm going to toast this world, but then they never showed up. So it said the dead walk, it pulled me to the location where they supposedly were coming onto the screen, but they didn't show up. So I'm taking that as a forewarning, and I scrambled together about half my population of 40-something to be squads. And I remember to hook up my bridge to my lever this time. so but have you have you folks seen that before oh yes it can happen if an army is on the

march and it's just walking through your territory without actually wanting to attack you so you still get the type message of like oh shit an army is coming be careful but the army is in fact waging more on somebody completely different than you I've seen that particular thing, Roland, where it ends up basically just being one necromancer or two necromancers just coming through and for whatever reason they haven't brought their squad with them. Yeah. It can also happen with like goblin armies or human armies, but I had it happen a few versions even back with the goblin army already. So this is not really a new thing. interesting to see what the

trade later, yeah, the mountain homes liaison has to add to the world history whenever they come next time. It'll be interesting to see if there's been any activity near me. I don't like the idea of being, you know, Belgium between Germany and France.

You'll have the great chocolate, though, and the beer, so that's important. Who's going to enjoy it if everybody's zombies? Everyone can enjoy Belgian beer. um zombie or not i feel like we can all come together on that i hope i have a historical reference right it was belgium that that was that was uh the waypoint between germany and france and world war two right do not ask me historical questions First Tavern in Outpost to Cudnall, Pickhour.

All visitors are welcome. Come join Tavernkeeper Justin Lothamer in a mug of blueberry wine and a plate of cave lobster and plump helmets. The barricaded Peppers is convenient on the 14th Z level of Pickhour. Okay, one of the news happened since we last got together. Let me I believe that we've had another release of the lazy

new pack with some new stuff in it, but I'm not sure what the new stuff is. Oh yeah, that's the Sarant's starter pack? What was it? So it's up to release six now? Let me have a look.

I only want us to have the freshest information here. We talked about five coming out. I want to say yeah, this is five is what's now so we've talked about that five is what's out all right well i'm you know i'm still catching up here in this game you see uh yeah no i and i didn't really know what was uh what was different there it was the we talked about the world speed increase with uh with uh dfack is in it oh right i thought there was a newer one than that even okay maybe there is maybe i'm just missing it i am i am

it says last updated september 5th so i don't think you are i think i just have a funny time dilation situation going on. So have you guys had a chance to play any of this here video game? I sat down last night and

played in like I said, it was my second fortress and it got you know toasted by undead and then I started a third fortress in this world. Right. How about you roll? Roland. Well, I managed to only play very little myself, but I did manage to get somebody

to listen to us and to download the game. So I have to explain to them how this game works. Yes. And so far, it's working pretty well, but it's such a throwback. to like the start you know and like yeah yeah you need cups you need goblets your dwarfs are drinking

with their bare hands and she's like how do I do that and I'm like right okay hmm now let me explain that to you dwarf fortress wiki

wiki.org basically but she is also straight up refusing most of the tutorials on the internet. So, you know, that's not helping. Well, you know, I do get that.

I do think that I liked the Tor Fortress Wiki Quick Start tutorial for learning better than the ones on the internet. So I think that I'm, you know, a go-by-the-book, follow-along with a book kind of learner. So maybe she's like that, too. I suppose, I suppose. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. I myself sat down without out any tutorials and learned it. It just took like three years. So it's doable.

Of course, if she's just, you know, refusing to do any tutorials and trying to get it just from the game interface and using the built-in help, then, you know, I feel bad for her. Yeah, that's not going to go well. Yeah. Yeah. it's um it it can be a little overwhelming i i know we've talked about this before but uh i i found the paradoxes errant um tutorial to be just great kind of giving me enough confidence to get moving and get going and i think paradoxes said that that was even an iteration of something they'd found earlier so but but i found that one really straightforward because there's a save game attached to it

And so, you know, it's like, do this. Okay. And then do this. Okay. So there's a certain amount of predictability that can go with it as you're learning. I found that kind of helpful. And then that's the last time I ever touched a tutorial or looked at anything really other than the stuff that Paranoid Metroid has put out. And Dashtastic I found pretty useful too for tutorials.

But yeah, I don't know if I could learn just using the wiki. I think I'd be inundated or overwhelmed. There is the quick start. And it is a step by. step hit this button hit this button you know okay make a rectangle with these with these buttons and hit enter so that one is an exact step by step and it gets you through far enough to where it feels and i agree that you can basically sustain a basic fort for a season or two and then you just start using the wiki as a as a reference i still use the wiki as a reference every day

Yeah, no, of course. The wiki is great. Even just for going on the wiki and clicking on random page for like three hours a day because you have nothing else to do, never happened to me, though. But it's great fun. It must be the ice. So I'm kind of looking at this. And what I've noticed is,

unlike every other iteration that I've played in this particular world, which I'm going to pull up right now, where I get no migrants and usually teeming hordes of undead. For some reason, this one, I'm getting lots of migrants. It almost is feeling like a bit of a refugee for it. I don't know if that's something you guys have ever seen before. So it's now up to 55. And I think it was 42 when we started. So we just got a big migrant wave. Yeah, that's one thing that I found annoying about this world that I'm in now.

before, and I don't know if this still is still valid from the game itself, but I would never get a goblin siege until I had, I think it was 60 dwarves. So that was like the trigger. At 60 dwarves, you can get a goblin siege. Well, these undead really just don't care about any of that. Right. They don't care. Yeah, I think that's a safe way to put it.

I've never seen a goblin siege in any world that I, in any of these worlds. that I've built in this one. I don't even know if there are goblins still alive. I think the undead might have killed them all because usually it's just, you know, 10,000 undead come in and I'm done, either FPS or otherwise. Yeah, I was kind of thinking also just sort of using this as a reference for things that I'm, that I don't quite understand. But one thing that I don't get, and maybe we talked about this last time, was I still don't

really get the ascending and descending levels in your fort with ramps that seems to be a really popular way of doing it. I end up with just trapdorves. And so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here or what I should be doing differently. I've had lots of luck with stairwells, but not so much with ramps. Okay. So what I hear is next podcast episode will be just a tutorial on how to do ramps apparently. Okay, because I do ramps everywhere. I'm wondering what Metroid's job. It needs to do the tutorial on making ramps. yes yes you can probably even explain it better than i do but um i do rams everywhere so do you have to do no no no no so what you do three by five sorry like let's say make a three by six

rectangle and the left half of that channel then go down a level make another three by three rectangle that's attached to that and channel it then go down another level and make a three by three rectangle that's attached to that and channel it. So you're just channeling, basically. Yeah. Okay, you're not having to carve up ramps. Okay, I think I've done something where I've gotten people trapped before. Yeah, that usually happens.

If you do the channeling on the same spot as before, you have to hop one spot further every single time so that it becomes like a stairway that is very, very large. You know, like one level here, down, next level, one further, down. so that you always have the ramp and one spot where the ramp is like ejecting to because the ramp is kind of weird you know it's this little triangle and the thing is the ramp goes in the very direction

of the next wall so if the on the side where the triangle is free and has no wall next to it, then there is no ramp and the ramp goes away from that very block. I see. I get my meaning. And what you do is each level, if you want to have a really tight, tight spiral ramp set, every level down, you alter your next direction of your new three by three squares. You altered 90 degrees from the level above it. So it's basically doubling around under itself.

So every fourth level, you will be on the same set of squares that you did four levels above. Okay, I thought I had done that. I think I've obviously, I have more practice to do here, I think. And that's the joy of the game. All visitors are invited to the barricaded peppers, outpost pick hours founding tavern, to listen to epic tales of heroism and tragedy. As we check in, visiting poet Cleanadev is reciting an epic poem of how in year one, the Clean Society of the Union of Jester, founded cake squeezed.

Don't miss it. I don't know, what do you guys do with Crenzels? I just kill them. much kill on sight. You know, I don't want to say the F word here, but I might have a slight interest in putting out massive amounts of eggs in my fortresses because it's like free food out of nowhere. Wait, do Crundles even lay eggs or am I getting mixed? No, they do lay eggs. I only found that out because I watched What's His Name's Videos on this?

and he was talking about that they lay lots of eggs. So that was fascinating to me. Good. For a second, I was like, wait, am I insane? But, um, no, you are sane. Yeah, the egg laying. Thanks, Brian. Okay, so these egg laying creatures, they don't really give that much meat.

So for meat production, they're rather useless. I mean, they give like two to six meat, which is, I mean, and it's something, but it's not really what you're really interested in. However, they can lay between five and 20 eggs. And that is amazing. So if you manage to get some in a cage trap, you can tame them, you can put them in a room, and you can start producing eggs like crazy. And the same thing also works with like cave alligators, because they also lay a lot of eggs,

but they're very bitey the cave alligators get very bitey but crundles less so everyone freaks out about crundles but they don't bite do they they just annoy they're also really small they're like what size of a large dog so they're not

really terrifying I mean they can scratch your dwarfs they can bite a little bit but they're no danger to your dwarfs really unless they come in large groups are they reptilian? I never thought of of a crundle as being reptilian.

I think they're a... Actually, I always thought they're like amphibians. That's fine. But I don't know. I always thought them as being humanoid. And, of course, humanoid does not in this universe rule out being amphibian or reptile.

But yeah, I always thought of them as more like tiny cobalds. Well, like, cobalds kind of reptiles. pettillion though so yeah maybe they are yeah i think so yeah and they're supposed to be rep like remnants of cobald huh do you guys ever have merchants that come and then just get stuck i have them avoid me and don't move i haven't show up and then right because they can't pull their trailer in so they just have a few people come up and and squat on my on my trade depot so i have I have some that they that they just complain or they're just stuck. I don't know why they're stuck.

I don't know what's happening. My latest fortress was built after we had our last show. And I am now trying out your method, Tony, of taking a hole straight down, putting the trade depot right beside it, then building a wall around it. So it seems to be working out pretty well so far. And I, again, I did hook up my lever to my drawbridge this time. Oh, see, that's good. Yeah, I tend to forget that until the siege comes. And then I go, oh, oh.

And hey, Paranoid Metroid, if you are taking requests, here's a micro tutorial to talk about. Two level walls, because I still can't figure the stinking things out. The only way that I've figured out how to build a two-story high wall is to put it up against a hill slope so that I can walk onto the second level. level from the first level. I want to... Oh, you build ladders.

I've got ladders. I don't... I mean, you build stairways, rather. So you have to build... So the way I do this is I go up to the wall that I've built, and then I build... You can, I guess, build an up-down staircase. I've done that.

And then you go up one Z layer, and then you build another up-down staircase on top of the one that's right below the one you just built. And then it'll let you build. build on top of your wall. Can you build an up-down staircase? I mean, I know you can carve an up-down staircase with D, and you can designate an up-down staircase in an existing rock, but can you build an up-down staircase out of, you

know, in a tile like you can and up staircase? Yeah, I think it's B, capital C, capital X that does that, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. Well, I will try it again, because I do, I want to build my, my wall at least, three or four high just because I want to do that. This is purely

aesthetic for, it's just in my head because I don't have to do this. But my bridge is four tiles long, right? It's three wide by four long. And whenever I lift the draw bridge,

I want to have the draw bridge to come up and not slam into a wall. I know that in the game that doesn't matter, right? Am I making sense at all? Not sure. Okay.

I mean, I think I know what you're saying, but I don't know why you're saying it. My bridge is four, is four tiles long. If I lift it up, then in real world, it should slam into

whatever is one Z level above it. Right. Like smash it. So if you had a wall above it, it should crash into that. You don't have to build a wall above it.

You can be in the underground cavern, you can have a draw bridge that is 20 tiles long on one Z level and you can raise it just fine. That shouldn't work in real life because you don't have room.

No, I found underground, like if you dig a tunnel and you make your Z level, if you make your bridge too long, it won't come up. Really? I have not run into that.

Yeah. So that like in this streaming for it. I've just built one that's basically a four by, it's basically a two by two square because anything larger than that I found wouldn't do its thing. And I only found that out

one time because I got killed, which is I guess how you learn everything here. Huh, that's not been my experience. I build like three by five bridges cutting into the side of the hill and they seem to raise in one Z level just fine.

Yeah. Yeah, bridges are kind of a funny one for sure. Yeah, I think I'm kind of wondering if there's going to be some balancing out of how powerful undead get at the end of the game. Yeah. Like at the end of the game. In an old world is what I'm trying to say. I wonder if that's something that Mr. Adams will be looking into it. I've still, I've not been able to beat them yet.

When they show up, it's pretty much game over. It's a matter of time. Yeah, I don't have a good, I don't have a good success rate. Like, I find even a small undead siege will very quickly overwhelm my doors and they don't. If anybody has successfully repelled an undead siege with an army who's listening, send us an email about that. DF roundt, sorry, Eurist at DF Roundtable.com. You are IST at DF Roundtable.com, because I want to know if anyone has done that. And if so, I'd like some tips.

Yeah, I mean, technically, right? The breaking point is just your dwarf's ability to stay alive. Because, let's be honest, a dwarf that is clad in, let's say, iron or steel armor and has a steel mace and a shield, is. faring very well against the zombie horde. However, the actual breaking point is just his endurance. At some point, the dwarfs will tire. They will fall to the ground and then they're easy meat.

And the zombie stone tire. That's the breaking point. Zombie is not that hard to kill. They don't tend to be very fast. They're very strong, but they can't tire. So that's the problem. So if you're able to split up a Undead Siege into like small portions via, for example, bridges or like extra rooms, then you can kill the small portions one by one. Okay.

Well, that resource that I was asking for happens to be on the podcast right now. Roland, Ronald, it is me. Yeah, hello, good to be here. I had no idea. Okay, so yeah. Yeah, because I started doing this when I had like a way too massive siege going on. And I was like, okay, this is not going to go well. You know, this is like more zombies than I have everything, including animals here.

So what I did was I had a long entryway into my fortress. I put my, my squad down, so they were not close to the entrance. And then I just put the lever on repeat. So they kept slamming it open and shut, open and shut, open and shut. And sometimes the zombie would get smashed. Sometimes a zombie would get through, but most of the zombies would not go through. So I always had like a very slow trickle of zombies. one, two, maybe three zombies at once, come down, get beaten up by my dwarfs,

but they don't see the next one. So they don't run to the entrance and get smashed by my own drawbridge, right? They always just saw the one, and then the next one, and then the next one. And that worked great. However, it took me like almost two hours. So, yeah. Okay, so I guess preparation is the key, if you want to defeat the zombie horde. So if they take you by surprise, you're in trouble.

You're doomed. Yes, yes, absolutely. And the better armor you have, that's good. But I think what is actually giving you the best advantage is just specific weapon groups. So if you have one squad of maces and one squad of hammers, then you're already faring way better than if you have like one mixed squad or one squad made of axes because that's just going to bring it down worse because, you know, they chop off limbs.

The limbs come back and then suddenly you have like two zombies. Lodging is the key. Oh, yes, yes, yes, right? Because you can't chop them because they just... They're unchoppable. So smasher's, so silver war hammers and things like that. Gold war hammers, whatever would be good. Yeah, I've got a, everything right now is bronze that I'm making because that's what I,

that's the ore that I brought with me. I still haven't found any good metal ore for, at least with this particular fortress yet. It's like, it's a little bit over a year old. So, but yeah, I've got, I've got a bunch of, uh, bronze maces and bronze hammers and I've got five and I don't have a whole squad that is dedicated to each but I have half of the people running maces and half of the people running hammers yeah that's already something yeah that makes sense established the umber crevice guild hall to the mining trade even though outpost pick hour has not

yet been petitioned for the establishment of a miners guild mr gutsy is confident that his immaculate preparation will soon draw attention from one of the most respectable mining foundations of the fleshy hairy swords visitors are welcome for now do you guys know how to view petitions that if you go through and you accept a petition and then you forget because I think I do that sometimes. How do you view those? Do you know? You can't. I'm pretty sure there is a DF hack command for it, but in the base game you can't see it and it's really annoying. What I do is I go to my locations. I'd love that. And I take a look and see, like let's say that that you have a temple that they've been requested and it has to be to a certain level,

then I will go to that. And it gives me clues as to which one I'm working on and what level it's at. Right. Agreed to build temple. So basically, yep, done it. Now it needs, oh, I see. Gotcha. And it needs the dance floor.

And then it tells you all the extra stuff it needs. It needs boxes and bags. So it's not a history of your petitions. array of things, which will be great. That's the closest thing as far as agreements to build. It's the same thing for guild halls. You'll get the same thing for that. Temples and guild halls both will show you that, you know,

at so-and-so level, it will reach the level of guild hall or whatever. And they get really, really angry when you don't complete their petitions, don't they? Yeah, yeah. They sometimes really do. I had a man just like punch my mayor because I forgot what kind of God

he was actually petitioning his temple for because he himself prayed to three and I was like oh damn okay which one was it so I did not manage to make a temple for all three and then he went up to my mayor

I was like crunch that's your nose gone and it turns out it was the Sopranos guy God. San Bruno, the patron saint of kicking your butt. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, I mean, we might not take it very seriously, but boy, they sure do. Whenever I agree to do a temple or a guild hall, because I have forgotten them in the past, now, as soon as I agree to the petition, I make it happen right then.

and that's my sole focus until it reaches the level that they want it. And I won't agree to another petition until that happens. Because they don't seem to get too mad if you just ignore the petition until it goes away. At least I haven't noticed any drawback of that. No, I think you're right. I think they're pretty cool, pretty cool cucumbers about that. They're like, hey, you know what, if you can't get to it, don't worry about it. But if you agree to it, they freak out.

Yeah. Yeah, like, if you never accept it, and if you never try, they're just a bit sad. They might go into the tavern, cry a bit, like, ooh, and drink a beer. But that's usually about it. However, if you just don't manage to do it, they're like, wow, okay, you're a terrible mayor. I hate you. You're a scumbag. Yeah, they suddenly turns into hatred, yeah.

yeah i like i've definitely like it i've had some problems with that i like the addition of the request of guild halls and and uh and the the temples in fact i would have to say that that is my favorite edition of the uh uh oh boy what's the version of dwarf fortress we're on now um 47.04 right it's hard to keep uh hard to remember with all of the, all of the updates.

Oh, okay. But whenever they came out with the 47 series from whatever the old one was, back a couple years ago at the beginning of 2020. 19?

Boy, in the before times. In the before times. Well, when do we have the Adams brothers on? Was that at the beginning of 2020 or the beginning of 2019? I think that it was actually just the beginning of 19.

Yeah. DeF. Ronti. It was 0.44, and let's see, we got the first update of 47 that came out in January of 2020. Wow, it seems like it was so much longer than that. Yeah. And then there was 47.05 that came out, boy, that's weird, a year later. Did 47.05 really come a year later?

Yeah, it was a, it was a one of the bug fix updates that wasn't. It started out after he had already started working on the seam stuff, the graphic stuff. That's right. That's right. It was kind of a maintenance release, if you will. That's right. A year later. Okay, after it.

So we've probably got, looking at this, we've got like basically two years between releases. My favorite feature, I think, of 47.xx series is the guild halls and the temples, because it's a nice intermediate goal. that the game asks of you that gives you some direction. I really enjoy, I enjoy those. And I like, I like making them fancy and looking like discothex. Oh, you mean with like gem windows that blink? Yeah, and just, just making them really fancy and, you know, having piles and piles of, of trinkets. along the walls on pedestals and

I don't guess that's what a discotheque looks like, but yeah. And lots of dancing. I like dancing. I don't guess Guildhalls do a whole lot of dancing. The temples sure do though. What did you just do? Just told him to mine out. There was a little lake

here on this Z level and I just told him to knock the wall out to see what would happen. Some people just like... And Noah Dwarf is loading up a boat. Yeah, nothing really happened These small pools of surface water I think act as water generators And that's kind of what I was experimenting with here

Now that this thing's been ruptured Will it just dry up and go away Or will it continue to generate water? So by water generator, do you mean the spring? Yeah, that's right I guess we do have a word in English for that Thank you Well, sadly that it doesn't work that way

I had the same idea as you. However, they don't drain through the clay that is on the floor. But if you break it open and they flood out like that, then the drainage is suddenly way higher. Because the only way they actually do get water in this, the rainfall and not just like a magic spring. So for the people who are listening to the podcast but aren't watching the live stream,

We're talking about the puddles that show up on the surface and the pockets of, of, of, of, um, like small lakes or something, you know, like those, those bits of surface water that aren't streams, but, um, but aren't, you know, but aren't like, you know, just one or two dots, like a clump of actual, looks like a little pond or something. Is that what the fishermen always call swamps? You know, the northern swamps have no fish, et cetera. Oh, I wonder. Okay. Zah, new patron of the Temple of the Responsible Zeal, invites you to come meditate and praise your chosen deity. The Responsible Zeal is a non-denominational temple with two musical instruments to accompany your dance of worship. Zar and the Responsible Zeal is located across from the barricaded Peppers in Outpost to Cudnel and welcomes all visitors. Hey, Tony.

Yes. And this may end up getting cut out of the podcast, but could you go down to the wall that you had built up around your outside of your fortress and show me building a step up to start a second layer on it? You bet. Awesome. Let's do that right now. Okay. So here's our. So for those not able.

to see the stream. I've gone to the surface and I've built a large outdoor wall out of stone. So I'm going to build an up-down stair. Now, I found a problem with doing this because it also punches a hole in a level below. So if you're going to flood this, it will flood whatever's below. Just keep that in mind. You probably could. I just, I get worried that they're not going to be able to figure that out. So I build up downstairs because I always seem to figure that out. So I've made the request to build it and this little character is dropping schlepping it over. So now I've gone up one Z level and then I click where that up down stair was and it says open space, which is fine. And then I'm going to build another up down stair

on top of it and it lets me do that. And then... Oh, so that's that's the, that's the trick there. It's that second one, I guess, that is required, and I never did. So I would say, I have a stairway right there. Why can't you idiots climb it? So they'll have problems with this tree branch. You can see it's kind of overhanging the wall. I've had that happen for it. You cut the tree and it will fix itself.

Yeah, we're going to take that. And give yourself a hole in the ceiling. Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to stairways, you can always imagine them as only going half. a block. Like half a block down, half a block up. So to reach one block up, you need two stairways because you need one that extends half a block up. And then you need one on top of that that also reaches another half a block. So you have the full block. If you get my drift.

The other challenge that I've had to deal with is when you're building the walls, like I've done, I've built one block way down here. If you build, if you tell it to build a huge long string, sometimes they'll build the very first block on the string and then they can't get to the ones behind it. I've had that happen to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then you have to do the stair somewhere else. Or I just have them build a floor next to the walls that I want to build on the inside and then they can just do it. And then I've got a walkway up at the top. And sometimes then instead of walls, I'll build fortifications. So in theory, they would, it's, The fortifications are a great place for them to throw their crossbows out at the attacking enemies.

It has been a long time since we've done an episode about archers. Maybe we're due. Hey, have we got to the bottom of the archer situation yet? You know, I have had much, much more success with archers over the last year or so than I had before that. There's a whole series on BBC Radio 4 called The Archers. I recommend people check that out if you have questions. Is it about this podcast? I think our British listeners will know what that means.

It's this really crazy scenario called The Archers. It's like a drama that's been going for like 50 years. And it's about a farm community. And it's, I mean, I'm sorry, people that love it. It's god awful. But anyway. Yeah, like General Hospital, right? Yeah.

It's been going on for 50 years every day. Yeah, it's the same Pablone regurgitated again and again and again and again and again and again. Cool. Well, thank you for showing me how to do the, that I'll be trying that with my fortress later today. And then Roland mentioned in one of our other episodes about wall building that it can often be better to build it as an overhang.

So if you think, if you do like what I just did, you know, so I'm going back up to the to the Z level that's the top of my existing wall. and then I'm going one out of that wall, of that current wall. And then now I'm going to do it as an overhang. And it seems like physics would prevent you from doing that in our world. But I think Dwarven physics, well, we all know work a bit differently. Oh, so that way you can make an arch over the river. You know what?

That is a really cool idea. Yeah. That's awesome. I didn't think about that. You could totally do that. I guess you could do that. Yeah, if you did this from both sides. Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, you can do that. But the good part about that is now it is so much harder to climb your wall because just climbing a straight wall can easily be done. And if somebody is somewhat proficient in climbing, it will be done. But this way, they just get stuck below that overhang and can't really go around. Sometimes they still manage to get around. then I'm talking about like a legendary climbers, like cats or something.

They can still shuffle around, but your normal goblin will just get stuck and like hang on the wall for like two years or something. So if you create an overhang like that, I want to say cantilever, is that the architectural term for it? But yeah, if you make an overhang like that, would that be a good place to put your fortifications in that overhang? I'm not sure if it would generate problems with people trying to climb over or through the fortifications. I'm not certain about that. But I can tell you this, they can get shot from below if you do it with fortifications. So I would always suggest doing a double overhang where you have one floor and then the fortifications so that they can't get shot from below, but they can't shoot out.

Do you guys understand when you get these pop-up messages? Occasionally, I get these in it. This one says Deller Gloedfer has been appointed to the position of diplomat of the roughness of will. I don't know what the roughness of will is. And look, there's all sorts of stuff about the roughness of it. This is the outpost liaison, and this guy's the general, and this person's the baroness of jewel turn.

All of a sudden, I'm getting all of these updates here. Hold that thought for a second. Before we move on from the wall stuff, L for 72 mentioned that you can order a 10 by one wall and suspend all but the farthest block and then unsuspend back one by one. So.

You can have a floating wall? Oh, no, it would collapse, wouldn't it? Then unsuspend back. I think he is talking about the problem. when you are building on top of a wall, and they just put in the very first stone and then block themselves off from building further. Oh, okay.

So you spend everything, but the stone that is furthest away from your dwarfs staircase. And then you're talking about suspending not as in suspending, and define gravity, but suspending the job. yeah got it thank you okay cool so anyway back to your uh your purple text yeah i don't know i just got a whole slew of updates saying all these people have become i mean it just it was like 10 12 in a row here all these people becoming diplomats and outpost liaisons and barons of all these different places and so i'm wondering oh i see it says

my person who's a diplomat and others have returned. So I'd sent somebody out and somebody's become a general and somebody's now a diplomat. You sent them out for an attack or for a diplomatic mission? I sent them out on a mission. No, I sent them out on an attack and then I don't think they've come back yet. Looks like they're still gone. I sent them out to attack and they come back as a diplomat. That's not what I want it, guys.

Oh, no. I think they're dead. There's nobody left in the iron gauntlets. They're, no, they're rating is what they're doing. They're raiding this place and I don't know, I guess they got a message back

with all that information in it, but my dudes are still off on their mission. They're still busy raiding this place up here. Okay. Which appears to be a tower. We're going to die. So this probably is the rambuliest episode that we've ever had.

Oh, by far. No, by far. But to be fair, to be fair, we were trying something new here. which is seeing if it's possible to do it like this. And I think it is. And I think that it works much better for you to do it than me. Only from the technical perspective of the like bandwidth, I think.

But that's, you know, if you can't see it on the other end and there's a five-minute lag, that's pretty tough to deal with. You can't, yeah, you can't have that. Okay, so. Does anybody else have anything that they want to talk about on today's episode of Dwarf Fortress Roundtable? They once do not have another topic to cover. All right. Well, I hope everyone has a good remainder of their week.

And for all of you folks out there in podcast land, tune in to us next time. Another episode should drop in two weeks. and let us know what you thought of our joint playing situation today. Yeah, I'm going to try to probably edit out as, like I said, anything that requires a view to make sense of. The only thing I'm afraid of with that is that it will have shifted the focus of the podcast from from conversation to group viewing. I don't know that that's a bad thing. We'll just see how it turns out, so.

Yeah, let's see what it looks like. It won't be all right. Give it a go. Yeah, it could be interesting. It could be terrifying. Okay, so until next time, everybody, happy fortressing. Bye, bye.

See ya. This has been the Dwarf Fortress Roundtable podcast. You can find all our past episodes at DFRoundable.com. Stop by and leave a message or suggestion in the comments section for this episode. While you're there, you can subscribe to Dwarfortress Roundtable or find us in the podcast service of your choice. You can find video content on our YouTube channel, and you can send us an email at Urest at DFRoundable.com. That's UR-I-S.T at DF Roundtable.com. please consider donating to the creators of Dwarf Fortress at bay12games.com

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