Dwarf Fortress Roundtable - Ep. 78: Further Examination of Version 50

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

We wrap up season four with more discussion of the Steam release. Thanks to everyone for joining us as we ramble on about our favorite game! Twisted Logic Gaming's All My Favorite Things Are Broken Further Reading's Dwarf Fortress Videos Kruggsmash Awesomeness DF Hack Release Announcement Interface Tweaks Workshop Mod Dwarf Therapist

Welcome to Dwarf Fortress Roundtable, the podcast for all things Dwarfy. Every couple weeks or so, your hosts gather to talk about our favorite game, Dwarf Fortress. So let's join your hosts, Roland. Dwar Fortress and go like, hey, now you have no way of talking. Tony. Fantastic. That seems to be Zencastor seems to work in Firefox. And Jonathan.

I'll be right back. I've got to take this cat into another room. She's going nuts. I'll be back. As they present insightful, irreverent, and often incorrect analysis. And always remember, losing is fun. I'm trying to find the name of a channel that someone recommended to me, and it was pretty good, and I enjoyed it. They did a really cool video.

Basically, like, all my favorite things are broken. For this game, or for, in general? No, I haven't seen it. Posted Logic Gaming is the... Cool. Oh, Twisted Logic Gaming. Oh, yeah, yeah, I see. What the hell are they called? Screw Pumps, water reactors.

Water reactors, I think is what they're called. Oh, oh, wait. I think I know what you're riff into. Do you know the one I'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me see if I can find it as well. Worf, Fortress, Water.

I had never heard of this guy before, but somebody suggested him to me. Yeah, further reading is the channel. So I put the link into that other one that I wanted to talk about. Oh, cool. Further reading. So what I thought was really cool on that was how much farther other people have gotten in playing this game since it's been released than I have? Yeah.

Yeah, we mustn't compare ourselves. No. Okay. You know what defeated me in this game, the release, was Aquifers. Aquifers defeated me. Really? I was, I can't get through them. Yeah, I just used the, the Cleaner Dev mod so that I didn't have them.

Yeah, no, I finally did, because I was like, I said I was able to deal with them pretty easily in the old version. But in this one, I can't get them to dig through wet stone. And so at least not in the right amount of time. And so by the time they, I can convince them to actually do it, everything's filled up and we're doomed. I'm like, well, fudge. Oh, yeah. Curiously, I've heard that. before that you can't get them to dig through stone that is wet and on the other hand i also

heard complaints that sometimes they dig through stone that should have been warm like designated warm and thus they shouldn't dig through it but they still did um greeny little doors yeah i did not get that far downwards i wanted to try the aquifer thing but i embarked with the light angri-fire, and I have not found the thing. So I'm not sure where it is on my map, but I channeled everywhere there's just not no water. I'm really confused. I'm just going to say here at the beginning

that I think this episode is going to be further reflections on the new release of Dwar Fortress since we've had a couple weeks now to play it. I think so. I think that's a fair assessment. There's obviously been some mechanics changes that we didn't expect, like the, the aquifers thing. Did I look and see that there's kind of a third kind of aquifer now?

There was slow, there was fast, now this is kind of like a medium? Is that correct? I've only seen heavy and light. Yeah, I think they're still just split into heavy and light, but heavy is like really heavy. And light has somewhat of a scale because I've seen just like wet caves that slowly drip with water. and I've had the same thing say oh yeah it's a light aquifer but it's filling up fairly quickly so it seems that a light is not just the same as another light in a different area and I guess that would go along with if you're having trouble dealing with them

because the light aquifers in 4705 they were basically seat level yeah yeah I like those always had time to build a wall yep I like those I mean I tend to to go into those because you could make the Dorman waterfall pretty easily with it and you could build wells really easily with it. Yeah, true. But in this one they just won't, I just, yeah, I just end up living on the surface, which is not quite

what I want to do. Yeah, I'm going to figure out how to mod this thing. Yeah, I'd like to do that too. There were a ton of mods out there pretty much the day after the release. I'm not sure how many of them are good mods, because yeah, there was like the Pokemon re-skin. Did anybody actually try that just for heck of it no no what do you guys think about the gorilla milking one oh no no no I think it's pretty

funny to be honest that somebody bought it in and I saw a post and somebody put it on the on the sub and was like hey look the people are really working hard and my brain told me out you can do that as well it's just like putting in the milkable tab to the gorilla and Then I ask myself, why would I do that? That's the question. It's like some people, you know, don't ask why. Should we do this? Could we do it?

Yes. I've never seen a gorilla in the game regardless. I didn't know that that was one of the animals. Oh, yeah. I've murdered them. Yeah, yeah. I once had Els come with war apes and monkeys. Like they had six different kinds of monkeys.

and apes. I knew about macaques. Yeah, yeah. They came with macaques and other stuff and war gorillas. Okay. War gorillas, that's amazing. Are they actually natively trainable as a war animal gorilla? No, I think that's like an elven war thing, where they can even war train any animal ever.

So I had like war gorillas popping up on my doorstep. I noticed that the mechanic for training war animals got a lot more straightforward with this release, with the premium release. It's basically a button on the Creatures menu that you can, it's the same place that you mark them for slaughter. You can also say, hey, train this as a war animal. Yeah, a little glitchy on that one. Is it? If you don't have the user interface, I don't know, something about it, but sometimes it won't render. I feel like if your resolution isn't high enough, those options aren't available.

So you've got to, like, go in and turn off scaling or something like that. Yeah, it's super glitchy. But it will work, but it is. Turn off scaling. Oh, see, yeah. Suboptimal. I don't have a high enough resolution that I have to worry about scaling. I apparently have to backtrack a little bit.

I just checked Gorilla on the Dwar fortress wiki. And it actually says they're both hunting and war-trainable. I mean, okay, listen, I get like a war-trained gorilla. right just like make it angry it works it's a massive ape it it killed but hunting a hunting gorilla it's pretty cool thanks turn so you're saying that it's kind of glitchy with scaling yeah my resolution is low enough so that i don't really need to scale it's not a 4k monitor right so i hadn't actually even considered those kind of things and i kind of wonder if if torn didn't either when he was doing development. Yeah, he might not have had a 4K monitor. Well, he could, but he can get himself

a 4K monitor now. That's true. Depending on what the Kit Fox expenses were. Yeah, and after Uncle Sam takes out his cut. Yeah, I mean, hopefully he's got good accountants, so. All right, so let me, I had a couple of notes that I was, that I took while I was playing that I wanted to go over if I can find it there. Have either of you noticed an increase in the, incidents of migration waves. I seem to have many more migration waves now than I ever did before. They seem to come pretty much every season, it seems. See, I've had forts, my first fort, no one came.

I had zero, zero new people coming in, and then everyone went mad, and it failed. Actually, I also got the opposite reaction. I made a few fortresses. I mean, okay, I instantly put the number of maximum dwarfs down to 60. One of them ran for like two, three years, and I never grew over 30 dwarfs. I think I got stuck at 27, and then people started dying, and nobody else came in. And I was really confused, like, okay, game, can you not even fill my 60 dwarfs? What is happening?

And at that point, nothing bad happened. Like, I got no siege. I got no weird visitors, no, no, no caves, no deaths at that point. They just stopped showing up. I had a siege happen, and it lasted for about 10 seconds or so, and they just left. There was a necromancer experiment, a goblin, and it looked like an undead dwarf. I'm not really sure how to interpret what I read on there. But they just came onto the map.

And that's whenever I think I chatted to you guys. Uh-oh. I've got a siege and I have no military and I don't have a closed fortress yet. It was in year one. Yeah. So I had 20 dwarves. It was I think year one and I had a siege. But they came on the map and just left.

So I immediately built a military. Hmm. Oh. So yeah, it gave me the siege alert. and I examined the three that were on there, and they just took off and left. That's a tangent. But that's interesting that you guys have both had lower migration rates.

I have had much higher. I wonder if it's, you know, world and embark location dependent. That could be it. Yeah, probably. I've been running the 100-year worlds. I've been doing 250s. I've only created two worlds, though, so. Oh, yeah.

Had several fortresses, but only two worlds. yeah i've blown away a few and and started again have both of you done a lot of yeah have both of you done a lot of world generation oh yeah yeah yeah i was have you doveed into the advanced parameters yet no never works for me um somewhat uh you know i was i was just so amazed how how quick this now is because it is a lot quicker i i checked it i opened the steam version i opened the normal version, I let them, I clicked, generate world. The steam version was like so fast, incredible. I tried a little bit in the advanced parameters, but I cranked just the number of civilizations

up and down and the amount of necromancers, I think as well, or necromancer experiments, because I didn't want to have like six goblin civilizations, one or two, dwarves and no humans because that kept happening and then I played around a little bit and then I realized that the world parameters are not what happens here. It's just that the goblins kill the humans that quickly in the first like 10 years. Then I did a little bit something different. I just made the world larger and stopped generating tiny worlds and that apparently fixed a problem of the elves being too close to the goblins, not the elf. For once they're not the problem. I really do dig the goblin pixel art.

They're cute. Oh, have you seen cobalds yet? No. No, I haven't come across one of those. Because my game was like, oh my God, a thief, hold the thief. And I panned into it and I stopped the game and it was the cutest thing I've ever seen with my own two eyes. It had like a really large bulbous nose and like soft flappy ears. and it looked very cute.

But then it stabbed like a wild chicken or something, some kind of bird. It got stabbed and I was like, okay, so this is a cute cobalt, but it's very, very physically, you know, aggressive. I felt still somewhat sad when my military ran in and killed it. It looked very cute.

I had that with crundles. Oh, yeah. They're like, how would I describe it? I don't know. They look like serial mascoats for me. Sounds like you describe teddy bears kind of there with the cobalds, Roland. I haven't seen them, so I'm not sure what the pixel looks like. In my mind, cobalds still are the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons first edition version

where they're reptilian egg layers. They're kind of like, you know, small orcs, except the reptilian and kind of lizard people. As the year comes to a close and we publish the last episode of season four, Dwarf Fortress Roundtable would like to individually recognize all the patrons who have supported the podcast financially through 2022. These include Gary Jeffrey, Lucas, Patrick Shaw, Byron, Mr. Gutsy, Plino Dev, Andrew Campbell, Brandon Wright, and Justin Lothammer.

Thank you so much. Your support is greatly appreciated. We'll recognize several more later in the podcast. Yeah, I've had some really interesting stuff happen with regards to plots in the villain's stuff. So I wonder if either I've rolled a really interesting and better world or if he's he's done a lot of work to it or maybe a little of both i would say it's a little of both to be honest yeah a lot of the world generation seems to be more just just more stuff happening maybe maybe i was blind before but i did check in legends viewer and just in legends mode there i i think there are

a few more plots happening now yeah yeah i had some really cool ones okay so i built the i built for it and got it sustainable which was kind of you know first big thing. And then I had a tavern, which was awesome. And then suddenly people just started flooding in. I mean, absolutely tons of people flooding in. Me too. Visitors, you mean?

Yeah. And people that want to migrate in and people that want to live there and dance and everything. People want to entertain. I built lots of instruments. Really cool. But then all of a sudden people in my fort, like my expedition leader and other people, start stealing my artifacts. And it was just like

Bobby's sticky fingers. Like these things are going out the door so fast, but in 50.02, you could click on the where is my artifact and it would show you who'd stolen it and it would say someone's hiding it. So I was able to really quickly figure it out and then 50 and 3 came out and that no longer worked. Fug fix. Yeah. So it got harder to find them. But then I started doing lots of interrogations and there's like this massive plot going on where some random person is like compelling by force or like hurting people or flattering them to get them to steal it. And then they like run out into the forest. and meet some rando that comes in

and then I was able to like trap one in my dungeon and then I just sent my army in to kill him and then the other one escaped. I don't know, it's pretty wild. It's been super interesting. Hmm. Huh. Yeah.

Super interesting. I like it. This game's pretty neat. It definitely felt like a scripted plot. I'm very jealous because so far I got quite a few people to come to me and like petition to stay

including a what are the the brown cheese wheel looking people they're just mouths there's a lot of creatures in this game goallack ah

gorelock yeah those are what's his name that guy that did that used to do the cool videos he had like a he had a fort with a gorelock as like a person like as a character in his

sport that was part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy who used through the cool videos. I couldn't think of his name, spaced it, Krug Smash. Krug smash, thank you. Yeah. That could be a lot of different people on a... Oh, was that part of a running joke?

Sorry, if I... No, I actually spaced his name. Oh, that fits, you know. Like smashing the Krug Smash button again. Yeah, well, he hasn't... I think he's been streaming now instead of... you know creating his like narrative stuff so have you probably a good thing for him to switch up yeah man i mean that dude that was yeah that was some pretty hardcore uh that was pretty

hardcore so yeah are yeah i yeah i haven't i haven't tuned in yet but i'm glad to see he's back and doing stuff again i do have an issue with streams in general not an issue as in something that I don't like about them. It's that I never am able to sit down for long enough to give, because streams typically are hours long. And I just don't have the time to sit down for a number of hours to watch the content. I wish that I did. But I got just too much crap going on all the time.

So I enjoy the 20-minute videos and can consume them better than the stream. So which is why I'm not on your streams very often there, Roland. That's okay. That's perfectly fine. I enjoyed it whenever I was on there, but... Yeah, you know, I also want to stream more often, but ultimately it... You know, I feel like I can't just sit down for an hour, because then it's like a little bit talking here, a little bit outro there, and then it's like, poof, gone. It's over, ready.

So I want to stream more, but I very often don't have the time to just sit there in the evening for like four hours or something. So we got off track. You were going to tell a story about Gorlax. Right, right. Let's hear about the Gorlax. We got off track. So there was a... Were they in the time machine?

Isn't that with the monsters that were in the time machine? Oh, yeah, I think you're right. What? The Gorlachs. They were Gorlachs. Oh, yeah. Are they not the same? I don't know.

That does not ring a bell for me. Well, yeah, it was a year or two before you were born. Oh, that makes... Like 1890 or something, I think. A little bit before all of us were born. Anyway, I've interrupted you twice now, Roland. I'll let you go this time. Okay.

Golak, Golak. So there was a troupe, like an entertainment troupe, like a bunch of birds. It was mostly humans, and there were fairly old humans, and they were like amazing at music and dancing. And I went through them on a stream, and I checked what they know. know and what kind of dance and poetry stuff they know because we can now see that directly from the tab when we click on them which is pretty cool um and then i saw that they brought a gollac and the gollac was apparently the only person that petitioned to stay in my fortress and obviously obviously i had to say yes because that is a singing and dancing gollac you think

I can just miss out on that. And the steam version gore-lach really looks like a cheese wheel with legs and like massive tusks. And it's very cute. I think it was a female gore-like. She's now living in my fortress, and I love it. And I completely forgot what I was going to say about this. But it's nice to see. Well, you've got one to live in your fort.

That's awesome. Well, she has not petitioned to actually become a citizen yet, but curiously, like, she only petitioned to stay for a while, but curiously, she is working like other dwarfs, which is interesting to see. Like, she's holding stuff, and she's doing things. She's not crafting. I've not seen her crafting, but she's definitely holding things into my kitchen and, like, holding stone. And I'm like, what are you doing, woman? I don't mind, but you're not actually a citizen. Why are you helping these people?

It's nice, you know, it's nice, but, well, the other bots said petition to stay, and I told them, yes, they're not doing anything. So why are you? Huh. They're curious. I did notice my fortress population does go up whenever I accept the petition for someone who wants to visit for the purposes of entertainment. So that is counting toward the population of my fortress, which I didn't realize happened.

Yeah, getting to 200 people is, it definitely is slowing down on my machine. My active fort is 201, and I've started not accepting new performers because I don't think my computer's strong enough to do it. Real quick, for the sake of completion, H.G. Wells, the time machine, the creatures were not called Gorlax. They were called Morlocks, M-O-R-L-O-C-K-S. Oh, okay. Here's the thing. In building my, you know, when you get petitioned to build a temple or a guild hall or whatever, and they want it to be, like, when you build a temple, you build them in the room and you zone it

and you put a charity or whatever, an offering place, and it just becomes like a place of worship or something. And then you have to improve it to make it a temple. In the old version, basically you could. like, you know, zone out of the room and then smooth the stone and then engrave it and boom, you were to temple and you were good. Yep. That doesn't seem to work anymore.

Really? It feels really hard to get things to what they're asking for because I keep losing, they keep abandoning their petitions before I can get them to, you know, have a nice enough space for them. And this is like fully engraved and I've like lined all the walls with like statues and stuff and it's still not like, I had to get to a grand guild hall for. one. And I couldn't manage it. I can't get it there. Yeah, it may be, they may have gone too far the other way. It may be too hard. But yeah, I kind of think it was too easy to get a grand

guild hall before with 4705. Because yeah, all you had to do was engraved the floors and maybe put a couple of masterpieces in there and you're good. Yeah, that's true. So yeah. But yeah, no, you're, you're totally right because I did notice that as well. I made a small temple, smoothed it, and put, like, there was, like, one pillar. I let be there, and then I smoothed it, and I engraved it. So it's like an engraved pillar of the god, whatever. And I checked, because normally that would have been sufficient. And the dwarf was like, yeah, no, this, what the hell is this?

This is a dang cavern, bro. So I, and then I put more engravings, still not it. then I graved every single tile in the entire thing. And that was still not enough. So I put like two statues in. And then he was like, okay, you know, now we can appoints. Like, oh, okay. That was only a temple.

And I've had somebody petitioned for the same cult to make a grand guilt hall. And I'm like, no, I should have planned it bigger. Next time, I have to make the temples a lot larger. Like a lot larger, simply so I can put more engravings in, put more statues in, so I can feasibly get to, like, grand guilt or whatever. Yeah, size is, that's the thing. Yeah, I think you're right. Make the rooms bigger.

But I was operating under the assumption, because I swear I read before, like, if you make a tavern or if you make any kind of a room, you want it to be as small as possible because that's how they get better interactions and have better experiences. That is true, yes, but it did got fixed and bettered. So you can now make really large taverns and the dwarf will still flock together and actually interact with each other instead of standing in like the free space and then not being able to interact anymore. Well, that makes me happy. I'm looking for it to try and to do even more stuff then. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. It's very nice to see, by the way. I've seen a couple of posts.

And people were showing all their taverns. And they're putting so much effort into their taverns. It's really good to see. They're like massive and decorated. And they put like wood floor in. So it's like nice warm inside. And then they put like an aquarium at the end and like blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's decorated.

And it's really good. Assigning a tavern keeper? Yeah, yeah. It's really nice to look at. And yeah, you can you can make your tavern really big now. That's terrific. I always wanted it to be bigger. Continuing our list of patrons for the year 2022, we have Jack Dylan,

Blood Toes, Burma Bradley, Erist J. Jennings, Brendan Poole, Potato Bomb, Christopher Harris, Adam Hudson, Logan Hastings, David Eltsroth, and our most recent supporter, Old School Video. Thank all of you for helping to pay the bills which include podcast hosting and content delivery, web server fees, and the online media service for recording our hosts and guests. We look forward to bringing more of the same to you in Season 5, which should kick off in late January. Talk to you then.

Hey, I saw that D.F. Hack and Dwarf therapists are both working on getting their product updated and compatible with version 50. That is delightful. I really, really miss Dwarf therapist. I'm surprised at how much I miss it. I'd never use it. I think that the labor situation is, well, you used auto labor, though, right? I did some, but I actually didn't mind going through each one and setting their labors independently. my problem with dwarf therapist is I just found it too much like going to work and looking at spreadsheets

it kind of it just wasn't I just I just didn't enjoy it and I think something about like the way they're all lined up and like rows and columns and I don't know I just found it too confusing couldn't manage it so it's too stupid to get to work I'm a freaking Excel nerd so I really love spreadsheets so that probably is it probably you know trips that little trigger in me for But another thing, not just setting the jobs, but being able to sort them by their personality attributes and sort them by their military prowess, like if I'm looking for all of the hammer dwarfs that I want to assign a particular squad, I can use dwarf therapists to sort on the hammered dwarf abilities. So it was quite handy for things other than just doing the job assignments. So it is good to see. They said that it's probably going to be a while before it's ready to go,

but I did see that they're actively working on the new version. And DFHack is working on the update, too. They actually had a release DFHack since our last episode that is a release for the 47 branch. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's a new release for the 4705 version of Dwarfortress. So it's got some cool stuff in it. And someone made the comment, I think it was on Reddit.

So, yeah, we must be about to have a new release because, uh, yeah, because, uh, Tfack had a release. So, yeah, I guess that was before, before the release of, uh, of a premium, actually, now that I think back on it. Yeah, that probably got us the premium release, to be honest with you. So thank you, DFAC team. We really appreciate that. And thank you, dwarf therapist team for, for working on that, too, because I'm very much looking forward to being able to use it again. how are you guys doing with your key binds are you getting are you learning the new ones i think i'm learning the new ones i haven't rebound anything except for i rebound the z level to the greater than and less than it's the only change i've made okay yeah um i can i can agree on that i think the

only change that i also did make is unbind e and c because that gave me a migraine other than that I didn't really change anything, I think. But I did get a mod on the workshop. It's one of the most favorite ones, and it just shows the key binds before you hover over the thing. So if you look at your task bar, it actually says the key binds in very small letters on top of the thing. So you can see that mining is M.

You need to post this. We need to put this in the show notes because I want this mod. Yeah, it's really good. It's so helpful. What is it to? It's just like quality of life. And if you look at your hot bar down, then you instantly see what you have to press to get there. So on the mining pick, there is a small M now.

Very simple, very easy. So good. Yeah, yeah. And since I added that, I learned all the keybinds so much quicker because even if you open the build menu, now the small buttons are on every single icon. So you can ignore the mouse, almost, by the way, almost ignore the mouse. But, yeah, that's one of the, that's one of the things on the older version, the classic version of Door Fortress that I never really thought about because the menu items showed all of their keys, all of the key choices, because that's how you had to do it.

Yeah, definitely get that, get the name of that mod, and I want to use it and I'll put it in the shutouts? I have one thing that I'd observed, which is the, I think maybe DFHack sort of is out for you by default, but if you try to, you know, if you're relying on plump helmet one for your work to start out, then you, I think DFHack automatically made it so they didn't cook the skeeds or something like that. Anyway, you have to make it so that they don't cook the plump helmets. And DFHack, I think, had that set by default. So if you let them cook the plump helmets, then you run out of plump helmets spawn very, very quick. quickly. And then I noticed the other thing that they were doing that was screwing me was they

would cook the drinks into the roast. So if you have a kitchen and it's still going, they would basically make the Doranail. And then all of my stuff was like Dorvanail roast with Dorvanale with Dorbanail wine. And I was like, oh, this is why I'm running out of drinks. Shoot. So then you have to go in and tell it not to cook the drinks. And then you're good. And then they won't probably die. But I was losing a lot of people by that. Starvation was a problem. Yeah, I haven't had too much problem with my uh after after the first couple days of plan it i haven't had much problem with my food and and drink i did find fairly early on how to how to change the the attributes of food items on whether they could cook them or not so i anything that can be brewed i tell them not

to eat small caravans they are really making me change my economic strategy i and it's not just the fact that they don't have that much stuff directly but also i used to make these heavy things and try to sell them to the to the to the to the to the to the caravans and now they can't carry him yeah so I have really found that the most valuable thing to build for for selling now is meals oh you know a barrel of of prepared meals goes for like a thousand coin and it's not particularly heavy compared to a masterpiece jet coffer it goes for like 50 coin and weighs, you know, 90 units. They still seem to be suckers for my catbone crafts.

I sell a lot of those. Oh, and cut gems. If you build a jewelry place now, they fit, like, I never really managed to get the gem thing working before because it felt like you had, I think you kind of had to go through each individual gem and then issue in order to cut it, but like, how do you know what gems they're digging up? But now anyway, it's just basically they kind of automatically go and, cut the gems for you i never had a problem with that oh really you managed to do oh yeah i would

do the cuts and uh and uh embed i would have two different jewel jewel shops one for cutting one for embedding and i would just go through every once in a while and do a a you know cut i can't remember the name cut amethyst repeat cut rose zircon repeat cut this repeat cut that repeat and eventually they spam out and and they can't do them because they run out of things and then Whenever that happens, I just go back and see what else is there in the list. You do have to know what the gems are named, because eventually you get to them cutting stone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't really want that.

And so I do agree that because dwarf therapist, by the way, did add a thing where you could click on your jewelers workshop and then add in, cut this and that gem. And then you could click A and alt, and that would open a new window where you could. put in new, more decisive work orders through therapy. It was a bit finicky, but you could say, like, cut any material, and that would ultimately only cut gems because the rogues get polished and not cut. So it would cut. Dwarf therapists or D.F. Hack. Sorry, D.F. Hack. Okay. As I said, it sounded like a very dwarf therapist thing.

Yeah, and... Cool. Yeah, true, true, true. And that was how I got my cut gems back in the day And that they kind of adapted the whole thing Of like, cut, just like cut any gem Like the I don't care solution You know, cut all and crusts all That is very nice, that is very, very helpful

But it bleeds my heart Every time I have to sell gems Because I love gems Yeah To me, gems are something to just make rings more valuable And scepters and trinkets Yeah Yeah, and then put them in your temple or tavern or whatever, and suddenly it's like legendary guild hall or whatever and legendary temple.

Yeah. Oh, is that what you're doing? You set gems in the furniture and then it makes things better. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like a- Raises the value of them, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It raises the value.

And if you get like a masterworked share and then you encrusted masterfully with bones and massifely, masterful cut gems, then that's a pretty big price increase. And then you put that somewhere. And everybody in the room is like, oh, wow, it really binds the room together, man. So what's y'all's oldest fort? I'm still thinking about the caravans. When Tarn was on here, he kind of hinted that as you go further on in years, the caravans might get larger. But I still haven't seen a caravan that's as big as the first year caravans that came in during 47.

What's y'all's experience with caravans? I mean... There are a lot of them. Yeah. It's like I can hardly keep up with how many come to town in this fort that I've got going. Dwarves? Everybody I've had dwarves. I've had a lot of humans and a lot of elves.

I had elves pissed them off and they wouldn't buy for me. So I think that I had humans. But yeah, interesting. I've not noticed it being that big of a problem. How old are your oldest forts? Not that old. I think I'm the oldest one that I have is like seven So it's compared to the one that I still have going

And the version before Steam Which is like 40 or 60 or something 45, 45 So yeah, you know, I'm getting there But I also kept making new fortresses Whenever I made even the smallest mistake And was like, no, no, we're redoing, redoing Everybody leave, everybody potty's over

I would say one thing I'm liking about this is he's added something to make the, what do you call them, the quantity checks before, you know, when you're doing, when you set a work order app and you want to have like a, you know, if the amount of drinks is available less than 15, then make 10 more. Like that's, I think, clear and easier to use now than it was previously. Yeah. I like that he has some, some, exactly. Exactly. I love those. I use those as my basis and then just change the numbers. Yep. Yep. I think that's really slick. Yeah, the workforce orders are more straightforward and easier to. I mean, they made sense before. It just was kind of a roundabout way that you had to get to them.

And Tech had a great video on that. Yeah. Yeah. But I still, like, I appreciated the fact that he made that video. And it was very clear, but I still didn't quite. I guess it still wasn't quite getting it. But, yeah, but now it's easy. Now he's taking all the difficulty out. On the note of getting the game to work, so we know that the game is only out for Windows, but somebody has very helpfully posted a guide on how to get it to work relatively natively on Mac using Weinskin.

So if you're a user of the Reddit website, perhaps you've heard of it, you can find a good guide there. Somebody's put it in there. So good for people that might want to play it on a Mac. and it runs really well, surprisingly. Have either of you ever heard of the pit, pond zone? Yes.

Is that new? No. Oh, okay. I just guess I never saw it. What's the purpose of a pit or pond zone? They're basically dump zones for specific things. For example, a pit you can dump people in, which enabled me to do my great dwarven toilet, by the way. So you just designate a pit, and then you have a shaft, and then you say, throw, troll, down shaft, and then they do it.

And it's great. Pond is, they will fill the pond with water. Like, they take a bucket, go to the river, fill the bucket, go back, slosh it down the pond, like down the pit, you know, that you designated as a pond. And then they walk away, and they repeat that until the thing is full, or you say, stop. doing that. So this can stretch over multiple Z levels? It kind of has to because they're not dumping it on their feet. Like if you designate a square that is right there, like on one Z level, then they will not do anything there. You have to have a hole into a different Z level down and then they will dump water like down a hole. And if you have a large stretch and just one

singular hole, they will just use the hole. Like they are specifically looking to dump it down so their feet don't get wet. Okay. Dwarf Fortress Roundtable would like to take this time to thank all the wonderful folks out there who listen in to each episode of the podcast. In 2022, we've grown from an estimated 700 subscribers to over 1,200. Dwarf Fortress Roundtable is ad-free, and we plan to remain that way. We have no intention of entering into any agreement with any commercial entity.

We feel that podcasting independence is vital to the medium, and encourage you to support your favorite independent podcasts by downloading episodes and spreading the word to your friends. Thank you for listening, and we look forward to a great season five. Well, I've got a question for you guys. You know, when somebody gets, when stuff happens, like my guys killed somebody outside and outside the fortress. And I can see all of the stuff that this person has. It's very difficult to get them to go take that stuff and put it in a stockpile.

And I know that there's the button I that'll let you claim forbidden items and buildings. But even if I've claimed it, they still don't seem to want to go outside the fortress to get that stuff. And I used to know how to do that in the before times, but I have yet to figure it out in the aftertimes. Have you guys done that? And is what I'm asking clear. Are we talking about like a dump zone? Or are we talking about general, do I collect garbage from outside? Yeah.

Or are you talking about things like Goblinite that you have to, un forbid before they'll co-pick it up yeah so even unforbidden they don't seem to want to go get this stuff so i'm just super curious like is this uh well there used to be the order that would uh that you had to set to have them clean up outside yeah i wasn't sure if we found that yeah that is somewhere in the labor thing you have to click a little bit through it to find it and then it says uh pick out refuse like gather refuse from outside gather this and that from outside and then you can click through the options

but I did notice that they're being really lazy with garbage dumps for example because I had a designated garbage dump and an animal died in my tavern and it was designated automatically as

dump it somewhere and they just didn't do it for really really long until it started to stink and then I was like can you please do it like hello yeah they don't do it they do not want to get order the garbage it's i'm like please please can we do yeah i i feel like because of the ultra labor system that is now in i feel like they put priorities on the different tasks and it might be that dumping things is now a really low priority it below basically everything else and

if they can choose to do whatever then they will do whatever instead of actually dumping things outside because I saw people come from work, then go drink, and then go socialize right next to a rotting carcass of a yacht that was designated to dump. And I was like, clicking on dump, remove the dump, redump it, like, okay, can you please do it? And it just took really, really long. And I think the priority of the dumping job kind of went down or something. I'm not sure. Okay. So I'm looking at the labor menu, refuse and dumping. And there are items. on here for like workers save corpses workers dump corpses you can choose between the two so i'm guessing that saving the corpses then they would get put into a corpses stockpile yeah and dumping the corpses

they would go to a dump right yeah did you did you mess with that at all tony or did you just leave it as default because the default is save okay no i didn't even see that yeah so i haven't gotten to that menu apparently where is it it's under the labor menu and then under standing orders uh yeah labor menu standing orders refuse and dumping thank you i hadn't seen that so hopefully that's helpful to other people workers ignore outdoor vermin remains workers ignore indoor i see okay and i think anything outside is refuse isn't it pretty much like stuff dropped like if you kill a goblin all the goblin remains are automatically refuse and the rest you can kind of say whether or not it should also be handled as refuse or not oh i see and there's a sieges thing too and chores yeah the chores are putting your putting your youngans to work oh that's useful by the way the whole thing about sieges does bring me to something that i want to talk about and that is the alert system oh yeah it's gone

it's tricky yeah and yeah like before you could designate a borough and not designate any person to it and then go into civilian alerts

and say this is not a test there's literally goblins outside trying to kill you please get in and then they would do it they would drop everything get in and then sit next to each other and go like oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god

and then you could close doors or closed bridges making sure that everybody is in in that borough that you designated. Now the alert is kind of gone. You can't just say this is not a test

and if you designate every single person like if you go in by hand, right? You make a borough and you designate every single person this is a borough, please get in the borough this is kind of a test you know, it's not a civilian alert because we don't have them get in they don't really do that because it's still more of a

police only do jobs in this area kind of thing and they are allowed to ignore it because i've seen people leave to get drinks i've seen people leave to get food i've seen people leave to literally do gather things for a job outside of the fortress when i designated the borough and that actually killed a lot of my dwarfs because that plus the alert system when something pops into your map is not really happening the game is not

stopping something came into my map the game didn't stop I didn't notice people died I had no civilian alert more people died and I'm like huh yeah also the fact that the

log is not persistent anymore at least not as much it was. Yeah, that's tricky. I miss a lot of alerts. So those things both, I'm pretty sure that both of those things have been brought to the attention of the creators, and I suspect that they will be implemented. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the civilian alert will be, will be nice to see it come back. Yeah. I think a lot of them, it's just a lot of them, I think it's been that I haven't really known how to deal with it, but I think now it's more like, I think this one's kind of a tricky one. And so I'm kind of like, well, as long as I can figure out how to make this work, I don't

really care. And I'm trying to relearn the new way to do stuff and all that. If they had their way, I suspect that they released it before everything that they wanted, updated even on the fortress mode, was not done. They basically had a feature cut off because they'd realized that they had been almost three years since a release and they just needed to get something out there. So, yeah, yeah. So I suspect that there's been some people I've seen online given some, some, you know, rumblings

about the fact that it doesn't seem to be fully formed. But, you know, we all kind of expected that. Yeah, whatever. So much stuff, I mean, so much stuff works better than it used to. Oh, goodness, yes. Yeah. You know, like some stuff is just way, easier. I don't know. I was going to say, military seems a little easier in some ways.

Yeah. But I also am a little confused in some ways. Like, sometimes they don't train, even though I think they should be training. It's way too easy to delete uniforms. Oh, yeah. There's somebody that has a mod that changes that X to a garbage dump, and so to a garbage can, so it's easier because I keep disbanding my squads. Yeah. The X should not be that prominent, I think. And, Back in the day, the way I usually did it is I made a uniform, like a new uniform for whatever weapon I desire. Then I appoint people to the squad, and the game automatically takes the first person and makes them like a military commander. Now... That makes the default uniform? For that, yeah, instead of a default uniform because I don't want like mixed training going on.

like two spheres, two swords and whatever not. I want like one squad for this and then I can partly fill the squad. So I can, for example, make three squads and have then two people in that squad, three people there, five people there. And then I have like a distinct number of people with different weapons. Just nice. And now the way I have to do it is apparently I have to appoint a military commander and then I can make a squad and then I can make a uniform for the squad and then I have to say that

this squad is now changing the uniform to that uniform which what so I have to make a squad with a normal metal uniform and then I can change it after that like I have to make a squad and tell them take this metal uniform and then I can make my own uniform that only uses spears instead of any weapon and then I tell the squad like now you take only spears take this spear uniform which is like huh if you know what I mean yes it's it's a little complicated I noticed I think they're better at their jobs though because I sent a squad that had been kind of training on its own and usually if I have a forgotten beast or whatever I would kind of go uh-oh and I'd lock the doors and just hoped that it went away. But I sent them out after it and they

dispatched it. And they did that to an Etton and a Titan and a few other things. And I was like, okay. Okay. Cool. That silence you heard there, for me at least, was because I made the mistake of actually opening Dwar Fortress while we're recording a podcast. That is a mistake for me. Yeah. What am I doing here? Let's start playing the game. Yeah. No, they're pretty good at what they're doing. I like that a few equip bugs got fixed. So if you tell them, stop wearing your bag on normal

civilian shoes, then they will actually do that, like that very instant, which is very cool to see because it got quite annoying sometimes. And you had to like tell the dwarf, please, for the love of God, I made you steal boots. Now it's very easy. You just click a button

they do it instantly and like woo. My two little nitpickings are just the axe of like, oops, I just deleted the uniform and, oops, I disbanded my squad slightly too big. Yeah. And the, I also don't like that the military pop-up window is like very slim for some reason for me.

So it actually cuts off the name of my squad. Just make it a little bigger. You know, I want to see. I want to see. Yeah. Okay. We're running a little longer than usual here. So let's go ahead and wrap this one up.

I think that we're going to take a couple of weeks off through the holidays and come back probably in mid-January. And by that point, maybe the Dwar Fortress Wiki will be accepting submissions for version 50. Looks like they're going through some kind of a migration process to add version 50 to the wiki. So I'm looking forward to that because I'm looking forward to being able to see how-toes on a lot of these. new things in writing so forward to that well it's cool it's gonna it's bound to take time this is this is just showing me how much I leaned on the wiki yeah but it's also a good testament to how much work they've put into it to make it oh yeah much more intuitive because even without the wiki it's been pretty straightforward to figure a lot of this stuff out so I mean seriously

it might not seem it just at first glance because I knew when I first started playing it was like oh my god this is crazy but it's so much it's so much more intuitive the whole thing So, hats off. Especially for people who have played the game before. Yeah. I can't come into it with, you know, with eyes that haven't seen the game before, so I can't really speak to that. But, yeah, for there's a lot of things that seem easier for us

who've been used to playing the game for years. Yep. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, before we, before we ended quickly, is there a way for us to find out how many games actually sold on Steam? Because I would love to say it as, like, an ending thing here yeah it was still trending high on overall sales um the last time i don't know that they publish a number though do they i haven't seen it maybe he will in fort in the in the future of the

fort or whatever you know how he has those updates that he sends out yeah because they so far only said that they sold over 300 000 units which is pretty insane in six days but we're now past six day. So I wish I could like see a definitive number of like how many things they sold because it would be, we're there. One of the great things about

Tarn and the Dwarfortress community and how open they have always been, we could probably just go on to Bay 12 forums and say, hey, how many games have you sold? That's true. Dual Fortress Premium games have you sold? And it would not surprise me one bit if he just gave us the number. Yeah.

So I think that I'll do that. Yeah. Yes. That actually... A lot of it's tons of them. Yeah. So many. All right, guys.

Well, have a... So, happy holidays. You guys have a great remainder of your December, and everybody out there. Thank you so much for making Dwarf Orchrist Roundtable a success. And we appreciate all of our listeners and all that kind of fun stuff. I'll probably cut that part off because it sounds... I don't know. No, no.

It sounds... It sounds dismissive. Sounds dismissive, saying, and all that other stuff, right? But anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. And until sometime in January, happy Fortressing, everybody. Yeah, I'll see you later. See you guys. Catch you later, and happy holidays.

This has been the Dwarf Fortress Roundtable podcast. You can find all our past episodes at DFRoundable.com. Stop by and leave a message or suggest, in the comments section for this episode. While you're there, you can subscribe to Dwarfortress Roundtable or find us in the podcast service of your choice. You can find video content on our YouTube channel

and you can send us an email at Urest at DFRoundable.com. That's UR-I-ST at D-F Roundtable.com. Please consider donating to the creators of Dwarfortress at Bay12 Games.com. If you'd like to help support this podcast, you can find us at patreon.com slash dF roundtable

This is a conversational podcast. All craft stewardship is of the highest quality.