Dwarf Fortress Roundtable - Ep. 93: RAW Pickles and Eggplant plant plant with Tekkud

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Fun With Plants, and !FUN! with weremoose!

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Dwarf Fortress Roundtable podcast. Episode 93, this is your final and supreme authority on all things Dwarf fortress. Everything said here is correct. It is, in fact, you who's wrong? First chair, we have Jonathan. I'll am me to introduce your hosts for you. extraordinaire at Dwar Fortress and Lover of Ware Beast attacks. Greetings programs.

Chair number two is Tony. Tony earned his chair here at the round table by clawing his way up the ranks and wishes the game would come out on Mac. One day. Finally, we have Roland, who represents our European audience and definitely has a penchant for declaring martial law upon the arrival of his first visitor. Accurate. I am your host, Taked.

I make things. and sometimes I play Dore Fortress. Also, your farm plots are still too large. Make them smaller. My farm plots are pretty small now. I think I've got a three by five, or at least I did have a three by five when that fortress existed. You know what?

I'll say that's one thing I've really picked up on this, is making the farm plots smaller, thanks to you, Teckett, because otherwise I used to do the big honking ones, and it was, you know, it's so much better to have them smaller. Everybody's just running farming camps for fortresses. So what's up, guys? Have we been having lots of fun with Door Fortress over the last couple weeks? Oh, boy, yes.

Oh, and I should say welcome back, Tekin, because this is probably your fourth or fifth. You are probably our most frequently returning guest on the Door Fortress Roundtable. Which I appreciate greatly, and I think it is maybe fourth, guessing, guessing, they're total guess. Yeah, I think we've had blind on twice. We had Alexei Pepper on twice. We had Tarnan, Zach on twice. I think we're the only one that we've had more than twice.

I could be mistaken. If you are a guest of Door Fortress Sean tape on the past and I am incorrect and you've been on more than twice, please put the comment in the Cunningham's Law channel in the Discord. Didn't we have Jared Lido on after his appearance in Joker a few years ago? Yeah, after his role as Urest and the Dwar Fortress movie. So I've been mostly dealing with Dwar Fortress for the last month or two rather than playing it, but it's been fun still. Dealing.

Well, I've been modding it. Oh, cool. Yeah, we should talk about that. That sounds really interesting. Sounds a good place to start. Yeah. It's interesting, all right. If you spend enough time looking at the Dwar Fortress Raus,

you become convinced that Tarn is actually a clone of a previous self that wrote some Raws 10 years ago. And then at some point, he had perished and been cloned. And now his clone took over and wrote all the Raws since then, but different. Oh. That's the impression I get from the Raws. So it's all pretty straightforward is what I'm hearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you just have to remember that something that works for one thing doesn't work for the other. And something that makes one thing makes it in a completely different way than the other thing that is mostly the same. But it's been a blast. Are we talking syntax changes or content? The logic. The logic of it changes. So like, for example, with creatures now, you can load, you can like have a set of raw tokens that sort of.

targets an existing creature entry and an existing material entry, and then you can write tokens into that, and it will sort of replace and plug in your new tokens into where you're referencing. So like, let's say Spider has six eyes. You can select Spider, and then you can select body part or body plan, and you can say, well, make that eight eyes. Well, with plants, you can't do that, even though they're mostly the same kind of thing. They're just plants instead of creatures. And there is a select plant token, but then you can't select materials inside of plants. You can select materials inside of creatures. You can't do it in plants. What, what's going on? Let's back up here for just one second. We're making the assumption that the listeners know what a

raw is. And for our listener base, that might be a fairly safe assumption, but could you explain to us what raws are, Tekin? Raws are just information organized into simple variables, simple little tokens. So one might say color, colon blue. So it's just a little token that says color blue. And that token is referred to when the game tries to load up a creature or generate something. And these are in plain text, text files that you could load up in a text editor and change. And this is one of the ways that players mod the game, right?

Totally editable. Yeah. And they were not designed. It's become obvious to me. And I mean, I kind of, I'm also kind of weirdly meticulous about things, and I like good logical systems. So I kind of get a good feel for what was intended when I look at the stuff that Tarn has made and the game itself and kind of like, I kind of get a feel for why things are put together the way they are in Dwar Fortress. And I'm looking at the Raws and I'm like, these were never made for modding. they weren't they were not made for modding they were made for probably tarn to use for his own purposes to just make a lot of different kinds of a thing like a lot of different plants but when he makes them for himself when anyone makes something for themselves they're not accommodating the potential future uses that it has for other people so when you're going through the raws and you're modding you find a lot of places where you're like why can you do this here why is a pot a container but

a barrel is not a container that's amazing that's a great question yeah almost almost a philosophical question yep you know pot is a liquid container a barrel well it's actually part of the graphics system uh containers a pot is listed under the containers category for the graphic the purpose of graphics a barrel is not okay a bucket is not a liquid container a jug is yeah i never put liquid in a bucket yeah i mean you just wouldn't do that that, you know. I'll put water in a bucket. Well, you wouldn't.

Yep. Not in this game. And then I dump it through a hole. Well, yeah, you put water in a bucket. You dump it into a hole and then you make a wet cave floor underneath it. I wonder. Yeah, I wonder how that works. Anyway.

Well, you, you designate a, no, no, no, I know how it works. Okay. I'm just thinking in the raw thing. I've done the thing, but not the thing. But that is, I mean, I could cut myself off on the complaining there because honestly, it is, it is fun to do a lot of stuff. stuff with dwarf fortress modding. And as peculiar as the system can be, you can mod dwarf fortress.

I already have a spider mod out, and I have a massive food, culinary, homesteading kind of expansion in the works right now that has been taking quite a while to make. That sounds cool. I assume that whenever he first started making these text files for easy modification without having to touch the code he did this so that he could easily make changes himself not even thinking about anyone you know in the future was going to modify this game oh i'm absolutely sure that what happened was barrels were part of the first iterations of the game obviously they're dwarves right they need barrels and certain logic wasn't required because there probably wasn't some function with

liquids that there is now and then when pots were added i bet there was some function with liquids that needed to be accounted for. And so pots were kind of updated version of barrels where now it's barrels, but now they're considered liquid containers. Now they have this lid that can go on and off with graphics and all this stuff. But then because he's just, well, I assume this is all this is an assumption that he was just making the raws for his own purpose of doing iterative additions and stuff or or rather doing versions of things. He didn't need to update the barrels. The barrels still worked. Why update them to have parity with pots if they're already working? But then when someone else gets their hands on it and they don't know all this and have this history with all these things and they want to do something that Tarn didn't want to do, it's like, why aren't barrels on parity with pots? What the hell, man? But that's because, you know, the new person coming into the code and trying to fiddle with things has completely different intentions. Well, then that makes sense, right? Because when he started this game, the concept of modding, I don't think, was really in everybody's mind.

So he probably didn't sit down and going, you know, what would be great is people could mod this game. So I get that it's kind of an evolution. And I'm, you know, I think for all the things to prioritize in development, you know. I'm adding a question to the questions for Tody Channel now. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it would be nice to see some work done to bring everything in the parody. to have all of the plants work the same as the creatures, have all of the liquid containers,

have the same raws, all of the item, like to be able to define your own items and item subclasses. So for example, in Dwar Fortress, right, if you have a cucumber, a cucumber is just a plant growth that is called cucumber. And the game can point to a specific graphic. but a cucumber and a tomato are the same thing.

One is just labeled cucumber and the other is labeled tomato. They're used the same way. They're handled the same way. They are physically identical except for their color and their name. Realistic? Yeah. So plant growth is the type of item. When a dwarf picks a tomato plant, they create a plant growth item.

And then in a plant growth item, you can specify a subtype. I believe this is correct. I'm going by memory. can specify an item subtype that points to which plant and which growth. But when you have a plant item, there is no subtype. There are no subtypes of plant. There's just a plant item. So we're talking about like the tomato plant, the stalk, the vine, I guess.

So the vine of the tomato is plant. And there's no subtype. So you can't make a subtype either, which kind of limits things a little bit. But there are, there's some funny business with that. And so the pickles that I'm making are actually plant growths, and they actually have to be growing on plants in order to exist. Pickle plants. Yeah.

I could have made those pickles anything, but I cannot make a new item that is called pickles and have it be a new class of items because it's impossible to invent new, new types or classes or subclasses of things for the game. It's hard-coded what can. be in the raws that was going to be my next question can you create a type a whole cloth in the raws no it sounds like no you can't do it because they're and and dwarves and then there's more there's more funny business where like a dwarf will only eat certain things raw even if you mark it is edible they'll eat plant growths they'll eat plants wait yes they'll eat plants and plant

growth fish eggs and meat they won't eat anything else so i've put jam into my mott lots of different kinds of jam that you can make from uh plants well in order to make it what's that will they not eat cheese roth they'll eat cheese too yeah they'll eat cheese too yeah yeah they do cheese yeah well i mean some things i know that that you can create a lot like milk they won't drink milk you have to cook with milk before they'll drink it well that's sensible yeah because milk is a liquid miscellaneous item called milk so is jam jam is a liquid miscellaneous plant plant liquid miscellaneous items is jam and vanilla i didn't know you could do jam no no if i made jam oh and that's how you have to do to right yeah in order to get it in the right

stockpile menu you have to make it the right kind of thing well dwarves don't eat liquid miscellaneous plant liquid miscellaneous items no matter what tokens you put in there they won't eat it so dwarves won't eat jam what a bunch of jerks i mean they're really it's their loss honestly it's their loss because jam is delicious and bite me. How do you get them to eat it? Do you have to then prepare it in a meal? Yes. It has to be cooked.

So they'd have to have a jam roast, basically. Well, yeah. That sounds good, though. It does. It does actually. It's a really nice thing to do. Lamb with jam. Yeah. Yeah. I have made a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to test my mod. What was that rolling?

Um, no, I was just saying that, uh, you can now have a jam biscuit, but I see why the dwarfs don't just get like a spoon and eat the jam straight out of the, the glass, like, that's, that's a bit crazy. Yeah, it's diabetes. They're not, they're not so hedonistic, you know? Yeah. You know, at four o'clock in the morning, that's the kind of thing that I do. Yeah. I just don't wake up hungry. I've got a bunch of grenadine

pomegranate syrup that I made on my kitchen counter and I ran out of vanilla ice cream that I was putting it on and every time I pass by it I'm like, what if I just drank this? Like, it's there, right? Are we talking real life or are we talking to waffle? Yes. Yeah, real life.

Why differentiate? Whenever I cook with Worcestershire sauce, I like to put some in a shot glass and shoot it. Okay. You know what? You've taken this too far, my friend. Too far. You love me.

We're done here. I'm not drinking yay. out of a glass was bad but wow okay I mean I guess it shares principle it's like salty high fructose corn syrup so I guess yeah you could do that uh must to share it's mostly anchovies I think oh geez boy that sounds so good ingredients man it's not got that much sodium at all oh god wait a second it's not better you haven't made this better I haven't made any fermented fish products thanks now my mom just got bigger This quick summary of a tragically quick fortress is brought to you by Justin Lothamer.

Once upon a time in the illustrious dwarven fortress of Pup Pepper, life was a well-choreographed dance of workshops and drawbridges. Goblin and human civilizations learned the hard way that attacking Pup Pepper was a bit like sawing off the branch upon which they stood. The only ticket into the fortress was a perilous journey through a maze of cage traps, baited with juicy pigs, leading straight to a dump, conveniently situated next to an atom smasher, a stylish exit for those attackers with a penchant for splattie drama. However, the fortress's flawless plans hit a snag when a were moose decided to break all the rules. In a feat that defied dwarven logic, this mystical moose sprinted through the trap gauntlet

without so much as triggering a single one. Apparently, he was quite light on his hoves. Chaos ensued as the Wermose barged into the fortress, falling in a legendary showdown with 32 brave dwarves. Plans for sequestration quarters were in the works, but nature had its own agenda. As the next full moon approached, the fortress found itself in a hairy situation, literally. Even the most meticulously crafted defenses couldn't withstand the wild unpredictability of a moonlit moose on a mission. No matter how foolproof your fortress is, nature has a way of throwing a were-moose-shaped wrench into your plans. So raise a glass with Justin Lothamer in welcome and farewell to Pew Pepper, where the drama was as wild as the wildlife, and as short-lived as a mug of mushroom wine. You know what?

Can I ferment shark? That's what I want to do after spending some time in a country that, that, uh, that, uh, that ferments shark. So can you add a fermentable tag to things? No, uh, but I make a reaction for the farmer's workshop. So there's a few more reactions in my mod. And by a few more, I think there's like six more reactions. Oh, my God. I can't like to try this thing.

Yeah, you have to make crocs. And then with crocs, you can ferment things and preserve things and make, jams. There's sauerkraut now. There's zowercrout and also sewer crout. I can't remember what it was, I asked about this on my stream, how you say sewer in German. But there were like four answers. So if you take wine and make it fermentable, or if you have, make it so that you ferment wine in the farmer's workshop, you could make vinegar out of wine. And then you could take vinegar and cucumbers in the farmer's workshop to make pickles. Yes, I could add that in, but honestly, the dwarves are too cool, and they would just

do a fermentation and make the pickles the classic way and just put salt water over them and let them do their thing. Well, you'd pickle, salt pickle them. Yeah, in my real-life fridge right now, I've got pickled pearl onions, green beans, I guess, broad beans and radishes as well as Brussels sprouts. I was like, I'm doing this mod. I might as well do some of this in real life. And it works great.

Oh, and especially asparagus. Pickle some asparagus fermentation style. It's supposed to be really good for you. Yeah, it's good stuff. Really good for your gut health. I'm just saying, you know, really good for that guy. Homemade yogurt. So I guess if I had to list, and these are all things I make, too.

Like, I make yogurt and that stuff. My mod includes, well, I don't make butter. My mod includes butter, which will return buttermilk. It includes yogurt. It includes cheese from more animals than just what's, wait, no, you can already eat cheese from all animals. So it includes the butter. It includes yogurt. It includes pickles of almost every vegetable.

It includes jam of almost every fruit. Some specialty stuff in there that you can make hot sauce and you can make soy sauce. You can make peanut butter. So there's more grinding. There's more sugar sources. So instead of just Dwarven sugar, you can now make beet sugar and cane sugar. I added sugar cane. Oh, boy.

I've just added a bunch more stuff, too. I'm adding coffee, chocolate, and tea. You're going to have to add Dwarven Weight Watchers if you keep this up. Yeah, right? It has been an adventure, for sure. So if your idea of an awesome fort is focused on culinary delights, then I think that Tech is mod, what are you calling? What are you going to call the mod?

I don't know. I think I might call it Techett's colonations, but I'm not sure if that's a real word. It is now. What about Safeway? Safeway. King Supers. Techets advanced cooking. Advanced cooking.

Yeah, there you go. Well, you know, it's funny. I would call it cooking, but none of this happens at a kitchen. I haven't touched the kitchens. It's all farmers' workshop. One thing that's been an absolute nightmare is how menus parse things. So, for example, a tomato has a structural material called, it's a plant material. That's the vine, right?

And then there's a fruit. That's a growth. That's called the tomato. Then there's flowers. You know, those come before the tomatoes, and then there's seeds. And there's leaves. And there's all these parts to the tomato plant. And each of them have a name in the tomato plant definition.

Token says name. Name is tomato, whatever. And the name says tomato plant, because when you hover your mouse over a tomato plant, you want it to say tomato plant and it displays the name of the plant well when you have it in a menu particularly the selecting a material for a this is a little advanced but when you're doing um conditions for a work order and you want something of a specific material to exist you go through that list of materials and the material that makes the vines of the tomato plant has the name plant the tomato plant has the name tomato plant so it shows tomato plant plant and that is upsetting to me it is

very upsetting i'm like what is a tomato plant plant which part ATM machine of a tomato yeah right like yeah what part of the tomato are we talking about here but the tomato plant plant so anyway i spent no joke probably over an hour trying to decide how to correct this naming scheme, during which time I spent probably 25 minutes trying to research what kind of plant, eggplants grow on, because I was not about to have eggplant, plant, plant, plant on a menu. Turns out they grow on vines. Egg plant.

I don't know. I like egg plant. Egg plant. Egg plant. Egg plant. Egg plant. Yeah. Plant.

Is vine an option for, uh, for, for, uh, for, uh, for, uh, I don't know. like plant so no that's just the way I named it so now it'll say eggplant vines in so actually if you if you hover over it in the world it'll say eggplant vines that's what it'll say in the world as you're just browsing

you know and then if you go into that menu and that menu's always going to be a little messed up because of the way it parses things it's always going to be a little weird because it parses it differently than the rest of the game it says eggplant vines eggplant vine I think it says stems

so I've called most plant matter that represents the structural part of the plant that's useless stems so now it'll say like tomato plant stems instead of tomato plant plant because what the hell

is a tomato plant plant plant? That's good that actually makes it read well too the tomato the plant. The fact that you have stem there it seems to give the user a little bit more information even. Yeah, it describes that it's useless to the dwarfs, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Not that it ever really appears, it's just in that menu, but still, I was like that menu, because I love work order conditions, I was like, I can't continue living like this if I have a choice. Is it refuse or is it compost? I don't think it actually is refuse. Compost. It's compost.

So here's the next, here's version two. Oh, no. You take the plant matter and. you make it into compost, which they can then use to fertilize the plot so that you don't have to press with potash. Don't make fertilizer a thing for my mod. That's going to be another two months of work. Sounds good, though.

Well, I'm working on the Taylor Swift Tavern Mod. So every single performer, all they can perform is Taylor Swift songs. And we're just going to have them randomly generate those songs. I actually never heard a Taylor Swift song, but I know that they're popular. and so I think that might would do well. Wait, wait, wait, let's dissect that idea. You want, I'm guessing, you don't actually want the game to just play a Taylor Swift song

instead of the Tavern Brawl song thing that has... Just generate words, just generate words that would be a Taylor Swift song. So you're essentially asking for Dwar Fortress to like machine learn on Taylor Swift song so that it generates Taylor Swift songs. I don't think we need to take it to that level because I bet you there's probably only 75 words.

If you take the whole corpus, swift corpus, I bet you're looking at 75 to 100 words. So you just randomly put those in and have the game crap out. I think it's going to work. I think it's going to work. Well, let me go ahead and write this down in my notes. Yeah.

I'm going to just go ahead and write down make compost a thing I thought you were going to write down the Taylor Swift thing throwable at performers in Tavern No that's great We could have some tomato plant plants

thrown at them too Rotten tomato plant plant plant Some egg plant plant plant plant Some egg plant plant plant plant thrown at the Taylor Swift performers And then you would have something to feed the bears Yeah I don't know man

I'm not seeing a downside here Just to kind of I guess wrap up the scope of my mod here. You can make a lot of cooking stuff. You just can't use meals because the meals is handled completely different. Meals are nothing like items. And I've made a lot of reactions. And there's another mod, the crundlekin civilization that Ghostbat has made.

That's already on the workshop. It's already released where you can play as crundles. And I want to make some unique, like, colonations of theirs, some, like, special things that only crundles know how to make. And they would all be disgusting, insectoid, cavern-dwelling slop. But it would be, like, that would be what it really is. But they are kind of, like, cute. They're kind of like these cute.

They have, like, their farmer hats and their chef hats and stuff. So I'd like for their foods that they make to be really like, like a beef Wellington, except it's actually a disgusting mess. But it looks like a Beef Wellington. The Sprite does. But it's actually, like, made out of, like, carapace and carcass. of dead elk birds. Well, the crust on the outside is made of mosquito brain flour, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the meat has been predigested by the enzymes they produce, which are collected at the farmer's workshop in jugs. This is an aside. Has anybody here actually made a Beef Wellington? Negative.

I intend to. It's kind of one of those elusive things that seems really hard. I really want to make a Beef Wellington. Yes. I don't even know what that is. steak with pastry well yeah it's a prime cut of meat

beef roast that is wrapped in a pastry and yeah it looks delicious it's a Gordon Ramsey thing he says that any good chef should know

they make an excellent beef wellington well I guess I have something to learn then yeah there you go so Tekin what would you say is the percentage of the way to finish

say what 95% is where you actually put it on the steam workshop As far as getting code into the mod, 75%. I would think harder about it, but I think the more I thought about it, the more wrong I would be. So I'm just going to say 75%. But testing it, because a lot of these things don't actually work as intended in the game, because of all this funny business with the raws, I have only tested a handful of things.

So there's going to be a lot of testing. Oh, you can make tapioca flour, too, by the way. Good times. Can we start making boba drinks? When can we make boba drinks for the dwarves? Ooh, good question. Is this something that our listeners can help test at this point? Is this code available for them to stick into their dwarf fortress game?

No, I mean, I could ship the mod through some other outlet, but at its current state, I'd rather just keep it off of the workshop. It doesn't really deserve even. like a 0.5 right now because of how little has been tested and I know several things are horribly broken, particularly beans. I fixed a lot of stuff. I fixed. Did you know you can't have beans? You can't, your dwarves won't pick beans. Oh, I'm throwing the game away. They won't pick beans. I'm done. I'm done. That was it. They won't pick beans. That's too far. Why not? Because beans are not pods. They don't fall off the beans. I don't even

Honestly, I've been looking at the beans I've been making this whole time remaking. I can't even remember the exact problem, but it basically revolves around the way that beans are not producing droppable plant growths that can be harvested. When they harvest beans, they harvest the plant that is then just called bean, but they don't want to harvest the plant. That's not how harvesting works, at least in version 50. They want to harvest the growths that drop off, except sometimes they harvest. harvest plants like beets, so I don't really know how it works. But anyway, I rewrote all of the beans, and I gave them all growth timings that are later in the year.

I've given a lot of things, new growth timings. Also, you can't do anything except cook with them, so you can't farm them, but now you can. Now you can make bean flowers, red bean paste, pickled green beans, and those return seeds. So you can actually cultivate beans before you can't even interact with them. And now you can cultivate them. But those things are broken right now. Like some of the beans work, soybeans don't.

Peas don't. But I'm on it. I'm close to getting those things resolved. Oh, I have to make graphics for all of it, too. Well, I look forward to something else that can make my Dwar Fortress game more complicated. Awesome. Let's all gather round as the juggaboblobalist continues the misadventures of the civilization of the wealthy. rag, whose fortresses had a nasty habit of playing hide-and-seek with lichanthropy.

After losing two strongholds, new tower of showing in the unfortunately named Pew Pepper, the wealthy rag folks were determined to give it another go. So, they gathered a band of dwarves, led by the ever-optimistic onal leaf oils, whose idea of fortress founding involved equal parts swordplay, tavern dancing, and practical architecture. These seven dwarven daredevils scoured the great land, until they stumbled upon the perfect spot, a place oddly named the Prairie of Fondling. And their new outpost was founded. MAMGozareth, Dragon Labors.

Expedition leader Onal Leaf Whales, with her iron will and penchant for rhythmic combat, declared that Mamgozareth would be the epicenter of martial arts, with a delightful blend of dragon-scale aerobics and interpretive dance. The Dwarven approach was much to the confusion of neighboring creatures, especially the were creatures who were just trying to fit in. So, as the Juggalobalist puts it, brace yourself for a tale where combat meets choreography in a dance-off against the forces of lichanthropy.

It's the latest fortress of the wealthy rag. Momsazareth. Dragon Labors So, Taked, you also have in the past and some Dwar Fortress Instructional videos I think that it's been a little bit since you have created one of those. Is there any more of that in your future? Do you know?

Actually, I got interrupted from that during recording for one of my scripts. Then I had, I can't even remember what got in the way then, but I decided unwisely to start this mod alongside that, which never works out. Then I had a job change. And so now everything is kind of up in the air. I'm trying to squeeze like 10 hours of work on whatever I can each weekend right now. But I do not, I have not abandoned videos, but I had a long, it's not really writer's block, just like a habit of throwing away large scripts that I spent a lot of time writing. So many things change so fast there, you know, about a year ago from now, when the news.

release came out, a lot of the things that were pertinent were no longer. Yeah. So yeah. And that's also one of the reasons why I'm not in a hurry to make videos because, like, if I made a military, I wouldn't even imagine making how to do Dwarven military

video right now. Because I know they're going to change how uniforms are happening. Like, there's just no point. So there's other things too where I'm like, like I'm doing work order management is the script I was recording before I kind of got derailed, that was more stable, but still, it's like, maybe that'll change.

You know, work order management, that's, since watching your videos on work order management that really drilled it into my head how they worked, I used them almost exclusively for making anything in any workshop. I use the work orders that way. I don't run out of things, and I don't overproduce things. I love it. But now that I use it for everything, I have like 70. work orders and I have to, if I want to modify the work order, I have to scroll through like

pages and pages of these things that all look very similar. I wish that there was some sort of organizational process that, I know that you can move the priority of work orders, and I've tried that by moving them up and down the list. Yeah. I've been trying to, you know, group them by workshop. But, yeah, it's a challenge. But I do that too. I do that too. I group. them by how essential they are to the fort. So, like, barrels, bags, and bins are always up at the top because it's like, I always am going to need barrels, bags, and bins, right? So that just goes to the top.

But, and this is probably, it was a long time ago I read this, and it was definitely in a very unofficial, very casual, conversational environment. But Putnam had voiced interest in organizing those work orders into tabs or something like that. No actual description of any kind of plan whatsoever. There could never, there could possibly never be anything done. But at least we know somebody on the inside is interested in exactly that. And that would help. That would help if you could break down, you might have your master list, and then you could break those down into tabs by where the, where the work order takes place, like what workshop it takes place.

that would go a long way into having some sort of organizational scheme. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I actually misspoke, too. I mean, there is work orders are kind of part of that video, but it's work details, too. And that's a big thing. I really want to get that video out because, in my opinion, work details are one of the biggest destabilizer. I don't know how to describe it. It's one of the biggest things that throws off a new player and they don't quite get it.

So when you say work details, you're talking about the fact. that whenever you say that you want to build 10 tables, and the details are whenever you have less than 10 tables available and you have more than 10 non-economic stone. No, no. No, I misspoke before, so I got us on a different subject, but the work details meaning the actual designations of who does what kind of work in the fortress.

Oh, gotcha, gotcha, got to the labor menu. Yeah, so that's a big thing. A lot of people are like, they're not approaching that with a plan that fits what the game is expecting them to do, and then it becomes an absolute cluster, and then they just default to like, well, I'm not going to do anything with this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it can be extremely powerful, but I just, I'm, that script ran over 5,000 words every time I wrote it and I've written it seven times. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's been hard. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, appreciate the difficulty that comes with video content creation. I've tried it before, making anything that was even somewhat produced, and it's, you know, it's just a quagmire of detail. So, but I do want to say that we all loved your presentation style, the short videos that

were to the point, and we're very instructional. So, yeah, I want to encourage you to do that. And I understand if you can't do that, it's, you know, no mud slung in your direction for that because it's a pain in the ass but yeah well it's definitely not off my radar but i mean i got i still got stuff going on this job comes with a move so i'm planning a move now too so it's like how much time do i have um i mean i have plenty of free time but it's like when you got big life stuff you kind of want to put a lot of that free time into just relaxing to kind of counter balance the uh the hassle of dealing with those other things indeed indeed

Okay, before we wrap up the discussion on mods, does anybody else have any... Roland, you're three-eye and a Raven. Oh, God. Is that still an option? I considered bringing that out because I tried that. But good Lord, that did not work out the way that... Okay, so listen, the real reason why I wanted to mod Rawls is to make an adventure race that is kind of invincible so I can test things out in adventure mode and along the long step

there were so many mishaps and so many of them were absolutely ridiculous for example I tried to turn I wanted to make a steel golem that is then playable so I took basic raws and I replaced flesh with steel well for some reason that doesn't work out if you spawn in

you explode into gore instantly and die I never found out why that didn't work I believe it was probably because I didn't exchange all of it I just exchanged the skin

and some of the muscle tissue and then kind of the organs were apparently still organic and just exploded But I have no clue. Then my next thought was, what if I just make an adventure race that has some innate skill like throwing a fireball or setting something on fire? Or I just give a race necromantic powers from the start. And so I started fiddling around with the skills and good God.

That was, by the way, before we had. intelligent undead that can actually do something just near months before i haven't done it since but before that it was very weird to implement it i went on the internet and i checked for somebody that made a fireball skill and then i slapped the fireball skill onto the only only raw editing creature i have gotten to work. The three-eyed crow. Well, I did not realize that because I just simply copied a crow and made it three-eyed and then called it a three-eyed crow, I had created an animal that spawns in the world. Well, cool. Nice. With fireballs. Because it is a fire breathing crow. It shoots fireballs, like, essentially like a dragon. Um,

with a downside that it has the same spawning pattern as just like a crow. Or it technically is a raven because a crow in the game is a vermin, so I probably took a raven, not a crow, but, you know, semantics. So now I had the problem that I had three-eyed COVIDs spawning into my world at random that can breathe fire. Unfunned. That is actually... In flocks, I'm sure.

That is unfun. It just do it whenever. It sounds awesome. It sounds awesome. Yeah. You know what's funny about that enthusiasm about those sort of crazy creature mods, too, is every time I go on to the Kit Fox Discord

and I go to the modding discussion or modding technical channels to get some help with my mods, you can always find a discussion there about people being like, how could I create like a religious ceremony that starts with world gen that a dwarf could use along with an elf an elf in order to create some sort of dark elf dweller creature that can cast this spell in order to turn vermin into I don't know like mind slaves or whatever and everybody's discussing all these possibilities for how to do it and if you show up everybody's having a good time to talk about this crazy stuff and you show up and you show up and you you're like, guys, when I make a plant, when I make pickles, I want it to be in the plant growth menu. How do I get that to be in the plant growth menu instead of the plant's menu? And it's just crickets.

Everybody's like, bro, nobody knows. Nobody knows how to do that. Yeah. Yeah, they're like, how do we get stargazing into the game where dwarves can roll a check to see if they interpret a constellation correctly, which allows them to cast a new spell? And they're like, yeah, yeah, I got all sorts of stuff. for that. Oh, yeah. Well, what if you wrote this into like the history files by going to the

civilization and modifying this or that? And you show up and you're just like, dwarfs can't pick beans. What gives? And they're like, nobody knows. It's a total mystery. This is unsolvable. In the annals of lore, the celebrated bard Andrew Campbell wove the lay

of onal leaf oils, the esteemed chieftain of the dwarven enclave known as dragon labors. It is told that the discerning wealthy rag exhibited sagacity in appointing Onal leaf oils to lead the venture into the prairie of fondling. Her aspirations were twofold, the creation of a venerable tavern adorned with interpretive dance and the forging of a preeminent military force. Remarkably, she achieved success on both fronts. Upon the martial stage, Onal herself joined the inaugural fellowship, christened the lancers of

emancipation, employing her deafness to impart the ancient wisdom of wrestling. Simultaneously, she orchestrated the assembly of a second cadre, a company of ten sturdy dwarves christened the buff-birders. These two cohorts, in addition to honing their combat prowess through sparring, undertook the noble quest of vanquishing a marauding horde of badgers that plagued the fortress's livestock. Furthermore, onal leaf oils steered the establishment of a grand tavern, christened the helmed tummies. Herein, she appointed Zaynig Lamarsticud as the tavern keeper and enlisted the services of two masterful dancers, A-T-I-S-Ottomirth and Moral Kegat-Sizzer, to guide the jubilant denizens in rhythmic artistic revelry.

Undoubtedly, a season of prosperity dawns in the year of the Great Land, 121. So sang Andrew Campbell. Okay, I got a couple of news items that I want to cover, actually news discussion announcement sort of things. Okay, first of all, the link that was on our homepage was expired for some time. I don't know how long, but it was expired for at least some time. If you went in and tried to join the Discord, the Tor Fortress Roundtable, Discord, and

it failed, try again now because now I know that I need to go through and refresh it occasionally. So that should work now. Last episode, I talked about the scrolling, not working correctly, and memory leaks. Well, I went back and tested for a memory leak, and I could not get it to be leaky at all. So if there was any problems in reality, those have been fixed. So I completely retract that. I did replicate the scroll wheel issue. So during some menus, I was having trouble scrolling.

Has anyone run into that before? I remap my keys. I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm talking about using the scroll wheel in a list. It gets to wonky. I've had it be a little wonky. up. Yeah. So we have discovered what it is and we have discovered how to work around it. So it seems to happen whenever you are on a list that is filterable. So whenever you start to search something

through the list and you filter the list into the things that you want to have it filtered by, like say you're looking for all things that are made out of obsidian. So you type obsidian into the search box and it filters everything about the obsidian. Oh yeah. At that point, you can no longer use your scroll wheel to scroll. You have to actually click the button. So the solution to that is click the little magnifying glass that is to the right of the search box. Whenever you do that, it removes the cursor from the text box, and you will have the ability to scroll again. So apparently whenever that text box has a cursor in it, it disables the ability to use your scroll wheel to scroll. So once we found that out, it was much handier.

Very nice. That's quirky. Yeah, people may be encountering a apparent book. where when they search for something, nothing appears, even though they know they have it. So let's say you've got chert blocks, right? I always have chert blocks line around. So I want to search for those 560 chert blocks I made. I search for it, and there's nothing on the list.

But I know I have them. If you're experiencing that problem, that is a side effect of this exact bug, because you have already scrolled down, and then you searched for it, and you're actually scrolled down into an empty screen, and the chert blocks are appearing above. where you've scrolled to, and you simply cannot scroll back. So that's why that happens. Gotcha.

I wonder if hitting the magnifying glass at that point would reveal those chirp blocks. You could probably scroll back up to them, yes. But the menu does allow you to scroll to a certain point, and then when you do your search, it doesn't snap you back up to the top. It just lists them above where you've scrolled to. Science. We're doing science. so i have not i'm gonna i'm gonna admit right now i have not really played the game since they

updated with the alerts and combat log changes how is that awesome did they do an awesome job with that what's going on with that it is so much better okay cool tony really agreed it's much better it's made it so much easier you can even save them somehow like uh Well, not not save per se, but you got a funny thing where you can lock them, save them, so that they stay kind of indefinitely. Nice. Yeah, the logs, I opened the game up just to test my mod, and I just see those things now, but I'm not really playing. I'm not doing combat and stuff, so I don't really get an opportunity to toy with it. One thing I found peculiar is that the menus will gray out.

the, it'll gray out the submenu tabs for things that haven't happened yet. And it makes it feel like an unlockable feature. Like I haven't yet unlocked this thing in the game, which I always, I just found funny when I encountered that at first. I'm like, oh, wow, I haven't achieved, like, combat yet. Interesting. When it seemed like you should just be able to, like, click it and just have nothing appear. Like, why am I locked out of a menu just because there's nothing in it?

Like, I can just click it, right? But it doesn't let me click it. And it burdens my soul. that is an aspect that reveals that you play lots of games that have unlockable aspects to them because that never occurred to me not even once i saw the great i think that says well there must be nothing there yeah in a lot of games there's a difference between empty and locked uh if something is locked it means you have to go unlock it and if something is just empty well then it's just empty right so that was just it's not really even a complaint it was just something peculiar where

When I found it, I was just like, that's weird. Like, I feel like I need to do all these things now. I like that it's that way because that keeps me from going through 20 tabs whenever, you know, two-thirds of them are empty. Yeah. Just more interesting, uh, interesting UI stuff. But, um, I'm glad that the logs. Also, I heard they brought back the one step, one frame step. Was that correct?

Uh, yes. That's been back for, I think that came out in a, uh, I think that came out in 50 dot. Yeah, yeah, it's been there for a while. Oh, I just never found the key for it, I guess, then. I think it's just the dot still. Is it? Okay.

I think. Interesting. I never really tried it. I just remember reading it, and I thought I read it more recently, but I guess it's older. Well, I haven't got an active fortress at this moment. It is the dot. Nice. Yeah, one frame step is extremely useful when a gang of Steam

demons are rushing, bull rushing your hallway and about to slaughter all of the families that inhabit your fortress as they attempt to run away. It's very nice to have a one-frame step in those cases just to see exactly how that plays out. It's also handy whenever you have a wear beast in your fortress and you're trying to keep track of who is actually coming into contact with that wear beast so you can attempt to sequester them. Yeah, it's funny when I was thinking before we started, when I was thinking about hijacking the intro, I was like, how would you introduce Jonathan? And then I was like, loves wear beast attacks, loves them, absolute biggest fan. We're about to have that story. The latest in Jonathan's tribulations with lichenthropy.

I hear more about wear beasts from your forts than I hear about the undead or goblins from other people's forts. Well, I don't think that I've had any real undead. Necromancers are not considered undead, are they? No. No, I mean, it's the same subject, but no, they're not undead. I had two necromancers show up outside my fortress, and I just killed them. I love when they show up.

Yeah, when they show up and I've got my army, and I mean, everybody, if you've played the game long enough, you know that dwarves are obscenely powerful fighters. Every time the necromancers show up and they're like, We're going to raise the dead. Look out. We've showed up with our magical powers. I'm just like, Melville, grab your spear. We need that guy impaled immediately.

And then they just go out and like somehow chop his head off with a spear. Exactly. Exactly. So I've got to tell the latest story of my encounters with Lachanthropes. Puk pepper. It was my favorite name ever. P-U-K-E, P-E-P-E-R was the name of the fortress. It was a very short fortress.

It was started and done within three real-life calendar days, I think. But I was looking at the Quick Fort discussion on a DF hack, and I found some blueprints that were like very elaborate for QuickFord. I think it was actually called Dreamfort, was the name of this fortress. And I thought, well, you know what, that would be really cool to implement. I don't want to do with Quick Fort, so I'll try to implement it manually. And I did. I became obsessed with Dwar Fortress for about 48 hours whenever I actually implemented Dreamfort. Look it up. It's pretty cool. I'll put a link in the show note.

So I've got this wonderful fortress implemented. It is self-sustaining. It is doing very well. I'm getting ready to start working on my mega project that I'm going to do. Things are going great. And then a were moose. There were two entrances into my fortress. If you see Dreamfort, you'll see two rows of cage traps that you can route all of your attackers through. so that you can bait them and capture them. The were moose ran through about 20 cage traps and didn't trip any of them. I don't know if they are going really fast. They can avoid tripping them.

Have you had anybody any hostile avoid cage traps by going really fast? I don't know about going really fast. No, I didn't speed. I didn't think did anything. Sometimes they can diagonal past them. I think I've heard of that. Well, this is a one row wide corridor that was full of cage traps, and he didn't set him off. Yeah, yeah.

That once also happened to me a while back. One of my citizens was a wear beast, and I put a trap into his room and then locked the room. And he never set off the trap. I can't tell you why that is. uh he definitely was on the trap more than once he simply didn't set it off maybe it is because he kind of still has a citizen status i have no clue so i encountered something that allowed an undead a necromancer to bypass my cage traps might be the same thing but uh i'm not sure i had some necromancers attack i was waiting them out so i was like just leave guys just

leave and I was hold in in my fort and I waited for so long before finally being like they're never leaving. Why aren't they leaving? So I opened it up. I built a hallway with cage traps. I opened up the fort to catch these necromancers. Everything else had left. All their undead that they raised left. So they're walking through and they're just going right over the cage straps. And then I realized I waited so long without confronting them in combat that they became visitors who were starving for social interaction and they were going to my tavern to go party with my dwarves that they invaded. That's why they weren't setting off the cage trips.

They were no longer hostile. They weren't hostile. That's amazing. But did they then become hostile or did they just, oh. No, no, partied at my tavern. I did eventually try to surround the undead in the hallway, but they were wearing bronze. So I basically just forfeit my fort with that attack and just, you know, blew everything up on them. But, yeah, they became non-hostile because they got so bored of being there

that they eventually were like, you know what, fine. If they're not going to open up the gates and they're not going to let us stab them, I guess we'll just go party. Well, just, yeah, I guess that's the Taylor Swift mod, isn't it? Was that the Swift mod? I looked it up there is no Taylor Swift music replacer.

You were dying for that, weren't you ruined? Honestly, I would have installed it just for the meme. But at this point, I have to ask, that's what the mod does. The music replaced with Taylor Swift. Yeah, I looked it up, but it's... Roaming bands. Replace drinking industry with a Taylor Swift song. Yeah, roaming bands of Swifties that come to your tavern,

and then if it's in the middle of the siege, the siege becomes non-hastile. That is literally just elves. Elbards, you're describing L-Bards. Well, that's the same. Again, it's the same. Yeah, again, same thing. Same thing. Swifties and elves are, I think they're the same.

Yeah. So this were moose gets in my fortress, and I tracked everybody who came into contact with that wear moose, and I wrote down 35 dwarf names. And unfortunately, I didn't have rooms to sequester them in, so I thought that I would have enough time to dig out, you know, a few rooms to put them in, and then put them in burrows. I got a couple of them in burrows, but I ran out of time. The next full moon came, and there was something like 25, were beasts and it just destroyed the fortress so it's over well it was an excellent attempt at

contact tracing so i applaud your efforts there rinsic of a i question fame suggested in the discord that i put a crap ton of doors in so next time we have a wherebees come just before the next full moon get as many people as you can separated by doors that are locked and uh and i guess hope that the wherebees can't destroy a locked door locked doors are stronger than they should be, right? They're overpowered. Is that correct? Yeah, it's a bug.

I think they are, yes. So, yeah, wait, wait, wait, don't tell people that. Edit that out. Don't tell people. I want to see, I want to see the, I want to see the Discord, the KipFox Discord, explode when they fix that book. Well, you know, that brings up a good point. So there are bugs in the game that Tony didn't intend to be there, but he said in

Dwarfortress talk years ago that he's not going to take them out because it would fundamentally changed the game and change the doorbug is not one of them in no way isn't that the one he was the one he was referring to at that point was the dwarf an atom smasher he's he's not going to take that out of the game because it's useful and it doesn't really hurt the game yeah it's become yeah has he talked about the door bug the the doorbug no no i um i don't think he will leave the doorbug in because it makes so many things so much less dangerous uh you have a forgotten beast you have 10 you have it doesn't matter you have a single normal wooden door without any quality modifier and it

i had trolls smash the door down though they they well they still can do it if they correctly were to path to the door and then break it down because they realized that they in fact just can't do it But it's the pathing, got it. It seems to be the path thing, because if the door is locked, the path does not go further and the game does not really look for a path to break down the door. But if they're directly in front of the door, they still get the ability to have the action to break down the door, it seems. Software-wise, I get it. Yeah. Speaking of pathing and causing frame rate issues, I know frame rate issues are kind of bad.

back, you know, with premium for a lot of people, depending on how they do their forts. I have been, and I get some success with this, I don't know if it's as remarkable as I would want it to be, but I've been reducing my cavern layers to only two, or even just one. Because if you didn't know, if people, if the viewers out there don't know, when you reduce the number of cavern layers with advanced world gen, which is easy, for this, for this particular case, it's easy. You just go in, you find the world gen that's already there. it's default, you know, large island or whatever you want,

and you just change the cavern layers parameter from three to two or one. Anyway, when you do that, it does put all of the wildlife and resources into the remaining cavern layers. You don't lose anything. So you can reduce the number of invaders you have. You can reduce the number of space that invaders are pathing through. And I know you can do that through the game's difficulty settings, too, but I believe that one of the cleanest ways to reduce frame rate loss from cavern nonsense

is to just cut out some of the caverns because no one's really making use of all three cavern layers at once. At least I don't, I've never seen anybody like actively populating all of the cavern layers. So that's a way you can help with some of the pathing issues that I haven't quite talked about on my streams. So we are getting close to the time to wrap up this episode. Before we go, everyone probably has heard me talk about the game Doom way too much. Never heard of it. But I love the game Doom. Coming up on December 10th is the 30th anniversary of the original release of Doom.

December 10th, 1993 was when Doom was released by ID Software. So in celebration, I would like to have a multiplayer Doom play-through, and I'm inviting all the dwarf fortress people that I know to join in that play through. Probably going to do it on survival mode and it will be the original Doom episodes. So I have a Z-Damon server that is up and running and the name of that is a Johan's dwarfy Doom

is the name of the server. So if you play Z-Daman or if you are interested in doing some multiplayer Doom on December 10th, it's on a Sunday, go to either the Discord or go to the Dwell Fortress Roundtable homepage, and I will send, there will be links there to download Z Damon and information on how to join the server because, you know, it is just a nostalgia-filled game that I love, and it was a very important game. And, hey, it's 30 years old. That's impressive that people are still playing in a community of a game that's 30 years old. Someday D'O Fortress will be there.

I was a wee baby when that game came. out. Um, I guess can I also shamelessly plug a similar thing? Absolutely. I go. I wasn't planning on this, but now that you bring up game hosting, uh, I did finally launch a discord of my own, um, which is still pretty empty, but I have it set up for some game servers. I built an actual server machine, uh, which is about 10 feet away from me right now. It's pretty beefy. And I'm got, I've got a Valheim server up right now. I'm, I'm, I've got a Valheim server up right now. I'm, willing to do multiple Valheim servers. I intend to launch next weekend a Project Zomboid server,

and these are all going to be 24-7 uptime servers, except for when I have to do like a restart or whatever, or my power goes out. We're not asking for nine-nines, man. Yeah, right? So anyway, yeah, if people, I guess, I don't know where I could put a link for my... If you send me the link, I'll put in the show notes.

Okay, yeah. I'll put like a two-week or one-month invite link up for my Discord server, but you can always find me on stream and then just type exclamation Discord into there. But anyway, you can, people can request to be on these game servers. They're all open but whitelisted. So you just pop your, a little request into the appropriate thread to be put on the white list.

So you could play Valheim, Zomboid, seven days to die, starbound, don't starve. Those are all games they already have, or whatever games come out. that people want to play. And I'm going to spend the next month trying to talk you into playing Doom. I'll probably play some Doom. I mean, I don't know how good I am at it, but... It doesn't matter.

It's all about the... It's all about the... Playing the old game and looking at gaming history is kind of the focus of this. Yeah. It's not about how... Again, it's going to be a co-op mode. It's not going to be deathmatch.

It's going to be... The name of the mode is called Survival. But it's basically a way for everyone to just play play through all of the levels of the original game together rather than being in competition with each other. And what was the software? Hey guys, I hate to interrupt. I'm going to have to go soon.

See you later. Okay, yeah. So, yeah, Zedaman was the name of the software. Zedaman, okay. Yeah, I will post all that in the show notes and on our web page. And yeah, Tony's got to get out of here because he is off in the regions of the earth that is not where he usually is.

So thanks, Tony. let's go ahead wrap this up. All right. See you later. So, yeah, thanks so much, Tekid, for joining us. See you, Tony. No worries, guys. Yeah. All right.

See you next time. And thanks, Tekin, for joining us. Yeah, absolutely. All right. See you. This has been the Dwarfortress Roundtable podcast. You can find all our past episodes at DFRoundtable.com. Stop by and leave a message or suggestion in the comments section for this episode.

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