Dwarf Fortress Roundtable - In which the tragic death of ten expatriates haunts our negligent hero. At least they died free. Also, War Corgis and Marketing Goblin Sweat -VIII

Episode Date: June 16, 2019

0:33 Bravemule9:00 Reddit thread about complexity25:09 Tragedy strikes Tony's game.29:18 Impending Retirement of SizzledWheels34:05 Madame JackalWoman for Mayor38:22 Dev Notes46:18 Wrap Up Links BravemuleMeph TilesetReddit Post on ComplexityVideo on Villains fromRoguelike CelebrationVideo Inteview with IndyHangoverIncompetech Bay12 Games -- Please Donate!Image Attribution

Hi, and welcome to Dwarf Fortress Roundtable, the podcast for all things Dwarfee. I'm Jonathan. I'm Roland. I'm Tony. It is June 9th, 2019. But when you listen to this, it will be Father's Day 2019. So happy Father's Day to all you Dwarfie dads, I guess. Dwarfie dads.

And greetings from the past. You wanted to talk about Brave Mule, right? I was going to do kind of a shout-out to it. Brave Mule was suggested by a person who commented on our website on the Door Fortress Rountable site named Kietz. I still haven't read that. I should... It's pretty cool.

Do that. Yeah, so let's just go ahead and talk about it now. Maybe I'm just too far into that, but I don't get it. and there's a lot of elves I like the art but when I try to read it well I actually loved it so this guy's playing his

his fortress right he started from an embark and he's got his seven dwarves and each month if game time he is filling out a diary based on the experiences of each of those dwarves

so the first page of the diary talks about from the point of view of the so-called leader of the fortress. And what I think that the person's doing is just going through and saying, you know, I had a confrontation with so-and-so, I was non-affected. So he'll take that and write a little blurb for that day about it. So it is certainly extracting story and narrative out of it. But I thought it was very funny, though, some of the actual blurbs that he had.

It sounded very leader dwarfy. For example, and I will link to this, of course, in the show notes. A quarrel happened when dead informed me the mule course was alive. I bellowed at her. There are maggots. I bellowed to get more polite. I'm sorry, I bellowed. There are maggots.

She picked up a plump squirmer out of the mule and put it in her mouth and swallowed, and she said, I have maggots also. I will not quarrel with this one again. I like that. She ate a maggot. I'm not going to argue with this one anymore. I didn't know they ate maggots, but I didn't even realize there were maggots. You just learned something special every day.

This is great. You know, hey, you can still learn after all these years. You know, and that may be embellishment. I don't know. But the next day, I awoke and the dead mule had left. Height handed me morning meat and morning ale. She was wearing brown fur. I inquired about the new armor, and she said she had never known any mules.

I asked height with suspicion If she had fashioned the mule into a tunic She glared at me in a way I did not like Oh So maybe she's feeding him the mule So anyway So that's what the whole point of it is It's it's you take a that's the first month of the expedition

And this is even before They actually had settled on their embark location And as they're crossing a river They say that a wheel brakes on their wagon So that's where they to embark and dig out their fortress. Of course, that is certainly embellishment because you just embark where you choose to embark,

but I like it. I think it's kind of cool. I think that isn't that the story of Kansas City, like they founded it because the wagon broke down? Very well could be. We are huge in Kansas City. I've seen the stats. I know the billboards have really paid off.

So that's what Braymule is all about. Did you get that far, Roland? Yeah, I guess. When you explain it to me, it makes a bit more sense. I just read a few things, and I was like, what now? I think I was still in the introduction, so I did get that far. I have read through the third month of their embark, and it's pretty cool. The medical dwarf is trying to drum up business, so she is offering to sew extra limbs on people

if they come in and want one. Again, embellishment, but probably based on, in some part, on the mental status of that particular dwarf. Extra limbs, you say. Yeah, what was that here? Somebody has lost their cat. There she is.

Debt is the name of the medical dwarf. She practices her craft by slaughtering animals. See, I have to say I didn't look at this one. very curious though to check it out i mean i think anytime anybody does something that's creative anything that happens in the game kind of sparks that that that curiousness or that creativity um i think that's cool i'm down it also made me think of um roland's narratives that he's building are those based in a specific timely order yeah they're a novel like to read so it begins when the leader of the seven is still in the kingdom, so they haven't embarked yet,

and then you follow there to their embark location, and then you kind of see what is happening on the embark location, and it is in a timely order. Is it episodic? I mean, it kind of is, yes, but I try to make a fluid text. They are actually like chapters, yeah. Well, if you ever wanted to, again, publish that, I think that the website might be a good place for it, unless, of course,

you're wanting to publish it with a publishing house that is guarding profits. So in that case, the Dwar Fortress Roundtable site probably would not be the best place to publish it. Here's another thing, though, that I considered about what Brave Mule is doing. That would be a good way to force yourself to drill into the psyche of, of your dwarfs and perhaps help you dig into the complexity of the game that's not always right there on the surface. So that you make yourself like a point. So I have to write a story about this dwarf today.

So you play a bit and then you check on it. That's right. You see that he got into an argument this season. So then you have to dig back through to find out who it was that he got an argument into with. I think that that might be a way to help someone at my level, you know, explore the complexities of the game better. It's a good idea. Can you actually find out what the argument was about?

Is it possible? Do they have different kind of arguments? I don't know that. Tony, you know? I don't know if you can see that. I know you can sometimes see what they're studying and you can see the dances that they're doing. and sometimes you can you can kind of clue in on some of the poetry so that's kind of cool like you can really get into the dances and the songs and see and it goes super detailed i don't know if you guys have looked at that but like it'll show you how you play it the you know on the upbeat and the downbeat and i swear that there was some somebody who decided to try to turn that into real music at some point i could be dreaming but um i'm sure that i saw that which i thought was like that's awesome. I mean, maybe it's nothing because I don't know if Tarn Adams is a musician or

anything, but it's cool. Oh, yes. He is certainly a musician. He's a guitar player. On Dwar Fortress, Vanilla Dwar Fortress, you know the pretty almost classical folksy, almost Diablo-like guitar music. That's Tarn. Diablo like guitar music. What? The music in the, I can't with the name of the town and Diablo is, but Tristan. Tristan, I think, is the name of the town. That's right, Tristum, that's right. Okay, yeah, so the music that plays while you're in town talking to Ardra and Kane and Griswold, the armor, I spent a lot of time playing Diablo in the 90s. But anyway, the music that you play, that they play as a background music while you're walking

through town. It's this beautiful guitar-based with some orchestra behind it, but it's a really nice song. And Tarn's theme from Dwar Fortress reminds me a bit of that, except it is, it is cooler because it's just the guitar. So, yeah, that's all him. Nifty. There you. That also leads into what we were wanting to talk about as kind of the main topic is complexity in Dwar Fortress and how do you pull that out? It was suggested by a thread in the Dwar Fortress subreddit. The topic was, Dwar Fortress can't possibly be that complex. And it apparently got a ton of upvotes and a heck of a lot of comments.

So that was a thread that took off. It is interesting to me how deep you can go on a lot of this stuff and how intricate. One of the things that I always wonder about is Am I imagining this or is this something that the game's actually really giving me? Is this actually a simulation or am I just kind of like extrapolating? You know, and somebody who, you know, didn't like cats or something and then there were more cats in the fort and she freaked out. Well, that seems pretty simple. But then it goes as far as like, you know, people completely obsessing about somebody like the butcher, for example, in one of my forts.

We just had too many cats, so I had the butcher, you know, just turning cats into meat and leather and tallow and whatever else. And this person that loved cats ended up going insane and attacking the butcher. And I always just wondered, like, random, or was this actually, is this actually a flag that's simulated in the game? Because that's kind of cool. I don't know how I can keep track of all that stuff, but it's pretty neat. That's neat. The original poster of that Reddit topic was saying that he was watching a video where Tarn Adams was talking about the interaction of villains and villain opposition. emergent narrative.

And I believe that he was referencing a video that I will post a link to in the show notes. It's from Rogelike Celebration 2018. The name of the video is Tarn Adams, Villains, and Dwar Fortress. And he does go through what seems to be, I'm not going to say it's simplistic because the implementation would be a pain in the rear. But it is a straightforward breakdown of how the villains are going to work. and this guy who saw that video went and looked at his fortress and said, are we talking about the same game?

No kidding. I mean, I see it being kind of, well, I mean, I'd say the only limit to the creativity is a CPU. Because I've definitely noticed that the more stuff that it starts trying to keep track of, the slower my game runs. Sometimes just when things are getting really good,

I realize that the fort has decided to give up the ghost and that's the end of us. But, you know, so I see all these ideas and futures. And I'm like, well, that seems really cool. I hope, you know, we don't, I hope things don't get messed around because we're trying to do too much with CPU. But I'm sure he's optimizing it, making things, you know, run a little bit easier and nicer. And you can cap that.

This is another thing that I hadn't realized is you can cap the embarks. And you can change the size of the embark. And you can limit the number of dwarves and visitors and that sort of stuff to kind balance out the play which is neat is that something that you do with df hack or uh or is that something that's native to the game yeah i think it's df hack but i could be totally wrong i do it in the mef tile set launcher when i play i'm using his his tile set launcher in it you know one of the boxes is um you can set world parameters like you know temperature weather that can impact frame rate so if you're playing on a less powerful system you can turn off temperature and weather which

which is, I mean, I probably could argue that that eliminates some of the fun, but, you know, maybe getting rid of weather isn't a big deal. I don't know. But you can set your population cap. So on mine, I've got it set for 160 is my population cap, and then 220 is my hard cap. So after that, you won't get new visitors and you won't get new migrants or anything, which, I mean, hey, that's cool. They've got to stop coming at some point, don't they? Roland, do you cap your population? Yeah, yeah, I do. Normally you have to do it manually in the raw somewhere, but the launcher just does that for you. You can resize your Embark location in vanilla 2. I just added that. Yes, my own population is capped at about 250, I think.

No, normally I have it on 150, but then there's a strict population cap at 250, so sometimes I can still get babies when I already have 150 dwarfs. Yeah, that's a thing, isn't it? If you cap it too much, then the dwarves can't have babies. Yeah, it gets a bit weird. Sometimes dwarfs count as pregnant, but your strict population cap is already reached. so they cannot get very well yeah that's like the china one child policy or whatever it's even worse the the fortress manager has has implemented a strict population cap so he has told me that i can't come to term and i'm just going to have to wait until we have room for growth before i'm

going to be able to deliver my baby yeah somebody gets into a foul mood a foul i think it's foul mood is which i've happily never had but um i know that it's a thing well how else are you going to get your dwarf bone buckler if you don't have someone go into a foul mood every once in a while. It's classic. It's totally a classic thing. Yeah, you got to have your dwarf bone leggings or whatever. Yeah, you need some dwarf bone

helm to, like, secure your own dwarf bone. Oh, poor dwarfs. The Reddit, the subreddit post was done by a guy named Brave Equilibrium, and I recommend everybody check that that thread out. The thread's called

D.F. can't possibly be that complex. I can understand where this guy's coming from, though, who created this post, because I find myself in that situation sometimes too, where, and it's, I realize that it's because I'm still not 100% comfortable with the game, and I'm not exploring it to the depths that it could be. So his point was,

he hears Tarn Adams and Krug Smash and all these folks talking about all these things that they're extracting. and maybe some embellishment, but, you know, the emergent gameplay, and then they go back to their fortress, and the visitors from the mountain homes say, nothing's changed, everything's just like it was, and they go through their day-to-day in their fortress,

and nothing happens. I think you have to survive, you know? Like, you have to have a fort that lasts a certain amount of time, And if you die off, you know, before the first siege because of lack of water or food or whatever, that's food's a problem that I've had a lot. You know, if your dwarf starved to death, then, you know, you don't really reach that complexity until you've kept them alive and kind of kept grinding around for a little bit. And then all of a sudden, these cool things start to happen. You start to see some of these more complicated aspects of the game. Yeah, yeah.

I actually asked him when he posted that I was one of the first people to actually comment on that and I asked him if he never had any kind of siege either goblin or human elven or any monster stuff happening and he told me that he had it happen and but he just I mean it happened for him you know stuff happened so he had a siege he had monsters coming but I mean it is it is in the game so I one thing I saw was that sometimes the world itself can be a determining factor and how interesting it is because I when I generate the new world I'll often make sure that there's other stuff that I can get to or around because one time I had this amazing volcano embark. And when I embarked on it, it was connected to the world. And so I built this cool fort with these great traps that dropped people into lava. And I was super excited about it. And one caravan came and that was great. And then something happened in the world and all of a sudden

this glacier came in and I was totally cut off from everything. So I had no more sieges, no more caravans, no nothing. And there was maybe some stuff happening in the rest of the world, but I couldn't get to it. So I was really bummed about that. And now I'm trying to just make sure that I'm close and I'm not like on an isolated island because if you get yourself too far away from where everybody else is you just don't see anything like there's no depth so I try to go like smaller worlds and just make sure that I embark close to danger or whatever yes I agree in that I had I tried to like populate an small island with only dwarf and the first two

forts that I made there were really boring. I mean, bland. Nothing really happened. The first one actually got a few beasts, but then there were no more beasts on the entire island, so the second didn't get any beasts anymore. But the more fortresses I built on that island, I think I made like six. So the last one actually got some migrants from from that fort some migrants from that and it was really interesting so i i checked legends viewer i use that a lot so i had legends xml extracted before i started to play and i could just look into it like ah this dwarf is from from there and this dwarf is from there and uh this dwarf actually has a nickname and uh let's see why you have a nickname and uh he was from

way back when I named people, my fortresses, and I don't know why I gave the dwarf a name, but he had some history and you could see it with the Legends View, but if you don't have the Legends View open or have extracted the Legends XML, it's really hard to see it. You just see a dwarf with a nickname, and you have no idea anymore why. Why did that guy come? Yeah, and why did this guy even have a nickname from me? And I think that might be what the person, the original poster, was looking for out of the game, a little bit more explicit, maybe a pop-up saying, this guy was came from a, well, I don't know how you did it.

You know, one thing I've found also, and that it took me much, much longer to kind of get in to the spirit of is when I would do a fort, I would play through it and then if things didn't work out, I would just go back and then I would go back to the main menu and I'd create a new world because I just didn't think about the fact that it's a world that's kind of dynamically changing and evolving. So when I figured out that I could, if my fort didn't work, I would just retire it and then go back and start a new embark in the same world, maybe close to the one I did before, the dwarves are of the same civilization or whatever. And then that really kind of made it richer for me because then I could see some of these goblin civilizations, for example, you know, and I could watch what they were doing and I could see the towns that they were taking over. and I could see my fort and what happened to it did the goblins attack it oh now look there's 10,000 people there now or whatever hey that's cool

and it become a lot more real and then I realize you know you can go into adventure mode and then go look around some of these other towns and that's pretty cool too but like Roland says I think the Legends mode is super cool too once I figured it and the the Legends View app that you can

download makes it pretty neat that way you can view the legends mode without having to quit your game right yeah well yeah exactly you you can export the you know the legends info and then you can pull up the legends viewer and it's just cool XML interpreter or whatever pretty neat well Tarn Adams a couple months ago did a interview with YouTube channel called Indy Hangover and he actually discussed this they were talking about what kind of things would be changing, perhaps, to improve the user experience. And he talked about having the emergent gameplay that is there already, but buried so that it takes work to suss it out.

He talked about him and Zach discussing ways that they can make that a little more user-friendly and have it more on the surface. I mean, the best thing you could actually do is... I think would be for example like a legends viewer in the game that's already up to date. So you're playing the fortress mode right now and without actually quitting your ford or leaving it or going back to the main menu even, you can access the legends viewer that is right now up to date to this very tick in the game. and I mean the the legend stuff is there it is there it is just buried you know beneath the fortress mode but just imagine you you see something happen in the fortress mode see some guy coming along

and you can just click on the the legends whatever and you can go back and see what's your history you can do it for your dwarfs you can do it for just random visitors you can do it for any kind of stuff you can even look into hey my I don't know my neighbor civilization goblins weirdos and well what you guys did in the last 10 years yeah if you've come across it there's a mod that will let you build a librarian's desk so if you build a you know if you build the university or whatever or the library zone you can build a librarian's office and then when you use libraries it'll let you drop to legends mode which is pretty neat what okay I need that mod oh my god yeah yeah it's a good one it's super useful and I think in order to make it you have to build like four bookcases or whatever but it's a cool looking workshop so it's yeah it's basically a work And one of the things is read the Legends mode.

And I feel like it's not really cheating because a good librarian is going to know all about the world anyway. So that seems like a pretty solid thing to do. But yeah, I just use it to occasionally export my Legends file and then I can watch what's going on. So you see how the world's changed. And that really brightens it all up for me because I can look and I can say, oh no, the Goblins are going to go start raiding them and that kind of stuff.

stuff. It's pretty fun. It makes you more involved anyway. Dore Fortress. It is as complex as they say. I had a bad thing happen. I decided that I was feeling brave. And I don't know if I've mentioned this. decided that I was feeling really brave. After having watched a certain YouTuber do so much cool stuff in adventure mode, I thought, all. And I had an embark with lots of people getting taken prisoner. And I just can't seem to get these guys back. I don't know what is the deal. I don't, maybe, you know, hopefully if somebody's listening, they can say, this is a great way to rescue people. But I thought I would go in and just manually try to rescue my door. So it was cool.

So I got my adventure. It was really cool, strong demi-god or whatever. And I went through, and I went to the goblin pits. And lo and behold, all around the pits, there are my kidnapped dwarfs just kind of hanging out as prisoners. And so I went around and rescued them all, and I had like 10 of them. And I was so happy to see some of these, you know, they were like my legendary axe lords. And so I was psyched. So I started bringing them back.

And I was like, fantastic. And they were all excited to come join me. And so we're heading out. And then there's a stream. and I'm, you know, I just boldly set across it. And all 10 of them died. They all drowned in the stream because apparently they can't. So in rescuing my 10 dwarves, I killed them all with my adventure.

So I was really sad. And I have not come back to that world just because I feel like now I can't really face these dwarves after what I've just done to them. Now I've killed their hopes. And, you know, maybe they all think their loved ones are still missing, but I know the truth. and I can't quite live with myself. So I did a new world generation after that because I felt so bad. Oh, no.

Was this the same world that you had been trying for so long to wipe out the goblins? Yep. That was the one where they had to, I'd found a hedgehog man man in this, in this, you know, in this goblin pit. And so I'd been looking for him and I had able to find him because I find goblin pit just to be completely, Just, they don't make any sense to me at all. I can't figure it. But yeah, my next thing was, first thing was rescue the prisoners, then I was just going to go.

You know, I was going to be all like Bruce Willis on him or whatever. And no, it didn't. That didn't work out so well. So, yeah, I maybe I'll come back to it. I have archived the world and it's preserved in perpetuity and seven-zip format online. But I had to, I had to redo it. I just couldn't live with myself. How sad?

Yeah. But, yeah, all that ends well. So the new one I generated is a crazy mantis men. And it's using the new meftile set that has support for dogs. So I've got like collies and dachshunds and all kinds of crazy stuff running around the fort now. It's just the depth I didn't know I needed. Wait. So different dog races, right?

Yeah, yeah, totally. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's the depth you never knew. I think I saw the list. There's like 40 or 50 breeds that are on there, I think. Yeah. Jeez.

I'll try to find that and stick it in the show notes, too. Yeah, you need this. If you don't have it, you need it. I think unless you're totally on the world you're in and you want to see it through to the bitter end, you know, then do that. But if you're ready to get digging into any world, do power of 10,000 dachshunds or whatever. I want to do war, war dachshund, an army of war dachshunds. War corgis.

War corkeys. Yeah, that's in there. It's half corkies. I love it. My ankles hurt. 7,000 Yorkies. Where does it end? I guess you could have, you know, poodle soap. So it's interesting what you were talking about, Roland, with the names popping up of your previous forts, people with nicknames, because I have decided that my fortress is going to be retired for at least some amount of time, but before I do so, I'm going to name all of the fortress residents after 1950s era rock and roll pioneers so that

my next fortress that I have I will know immediately if somebody comes in because they will come in as Johnny Cash or or Patsy Klein

the dwarf or Buddy Holly the Big Bopper and so on I love it I love it. You should do that and especially if you have a theme

on every for it that's different that's great that's great I just did random names from people and I know that's not really a theme try to do that

and you will be surprised on how many dwarves you can actually re-encounter and I think by naming a dwarf he becomes like a historical figure So you can always go into Legends Viewer and type up

What is my boy Eric doing or whatever? Eric the Viking Whatever he's done will pop up in the Legends Viewer Okay, maybe he hasn't done anything and just died in I don't childbed But he will still pop up And they are, because he is now a historical figure which is a horrible English word for me to pronounce. Maybe there will be engravings or pictures about it.

Cool. Yes. And this artifact is adorned with pictures of Johnny Cash. Yeah. Imagine it. Imagine it. No, that's an idea. There you go.

So, yeah, we're certainly going to try that. I think that I talked about how I was moving. my my fortress from the the first level down to a few Z levels deeper in one of our previous episodes that is really what has destroyed the usefulness of this of this fortress it just is a big muddy blurry mess it's getting retired you got to do it yeah if it's not working blow it away and start again i i'm a i'm a fan of that you know you just go until you until it doesn't work and each time you kind of pick up a little something else like um one to oh you know what i don't know if you guys i totally changing the subject but this is kind

of related to fortress design so that's why i'm saying it have you guys ever had the things where the people are sad because they haven't they you know it's been too long since they've acquired something new and they're sad so one way i was reading to deal with that is you um you in your stockpile room in the furnished goods or the furniture or whatever you make a new pile of goods and then you de-zone the old one and then when they're moving it over just that act of having them go move it they find things they're happy huh so that's a tip that seems to have done me well and I was like hey that's cool so like you cleaning up your old room and like finding toys from back then and like

I'm gonna keep this yeah it's like hey that looks fun I Yeah, and then they'll, and then they'll totally just get to it, which, yeah, so that, that worked. It upgraded some of my moods. They'll pick up those new gauntlets and take them to their room and put them in the floor. Yeah, so now when I, now when I build my storerooms, I'll just build like two huge, like, circle. I use dig circle with D.F. Hack just because I like the circular rooms. and so I'll build two like big circles and then I'll have one pile over here

occasionally I'll have them back that seems to it seems to really cure what ails them yeah I'll keep like all these things you know I just like it's like all these I never know am I imagining the benefit or is actually a benefit that's happening so it seems like it really works

have you had a chance to play much Roland um this week yes um so i was mostly six so i could stay home and play huh and um yeah i i played a bit um for this i'm i'm in this ford right now for about that year and it's quite nice so yeah i i do have um jacko people in the fort Yeah, jackal people are a bit smaller than dwarfs, I didn't know. I felt they're like same height or something, but they need smaller clothing, which is kind of annoying, but it's fine. My mayor is a jackal woman with like 12 children, so they're really going at it. that's amazing so you've gone for the the multiple races for it that diversity for it yeah i like it i like doing those hold on here i did not really realize that was possible so

whenever you have these multiple races you said that the mayor was a was a jackal person or a jackal woman so whenever you you know do you get to assign these people jobs? No, no, no. She just has the best social interaction skills in my fortress. And so she like is so friendly to everyone that everyone is like, I want this person as the mayor. So apart from her, other jackal people that you have in your fortress, are they accessible for you to make one a minor or is this okay I didn't realize that I thought that you could only in your fortress mode you could only deal with dwarves no you like at the start you only have dwarves of course but sometimes people come into your fort and ask for

or they ask to stay for a while and I've had that happen. I have had them petition. And if they are not military people, they will soon ask for a real citizenship. And if you accept them, they become a real citizen, which means that you can assign jobs for them. And they can become mayor or bookkeeper or whatever. And maybe they can actually become a king of your fortress. or your entire civilization. Great.

Service guarantees citizenship. Yeah, yeah. I'm actually working on making. Her name is Rennie, the Jekyll Woman mayor. And I'm trying to make her queen by an unfortunate accident to the old queen. So, yeah, I'm just hoping this works out. I sense foul play there. I'm just not sure if the title King or Queen is, goes to the sons or daughters, or just to random people.

I'm not sure how this actually works. I've never done. I've never killed a noble. I'm serious. You know me as a sadist and as a horror per person, but I've never killed a noble. So I have no idea how this works. So you're fine with throwing children at trolls, but when it comes to Regicide, no. Yeah, exactly. Like, children are okay, you can make them again. But no words, mm-mm-mm-mm. Like I said, Adams a month or two ago, did an interview with,

Indie Hangover. It's a half-hour interview just of Tarn Adams and the interviewer just discussing the Steam release and Dwarf Fortress. And Adams goes over a lot about the things that he would like to see

improve to make the game friendlier for newbies. And he's like talking about, you know, use the lazy nude pack because I don't really see how anybody would not use it now that it's there, of course, with Meph's launcher as well.

I really wish that Meph's launcher worked on Linux, but I guess... Yeah, that'd be pretty neat, or on Mac. I would love somebody did something for the Mac tools because they're really, really bad. I mean, sorry, not to denigrate anybody's hard work, but I've had some problems where I can fix them because I know how to do Mac stuff,

but it's not as smooth and easy as it is with some of the Windows stuff. And I get it. It's like Windows has just got a bigger audience and more people developing on it. And I certainly, again, denigrate the hard work that people are doing for the Mac pack. But I would love it if more of these tools worked across platform. That would be up. The same thing can also be said about Linux. But what I found helped me and pretty much got rid of,

all of my issues with the troubles that I was having getting the lazy new pack to work well on Linux is I made a script to where I just run that as as as you do a pseudo on the lazy new pack and once you do that all the problems with it go away and it's I don't consider it unsafe because you're still containing it to the things that are being run out of the lazy new pack it's not trying to access other parts of your system it could I guess so that it's dangerous in that but I just have a script that I typed the word dwarf anywhere on my computer and it runs pseudo pi noob pack or whatever the name of that Python script is and it runs it as as as root and goes smooth before that I was having permissions problems out of ying yeah I think

meth will give he hasn't he has a zip file of his tile set that that you can if you know how to install tile sets I think you can do that on the next Windows you can manually put them in there but I don't know how to do that I've never had any success doing that it's just ends I just end up breaking everything

so that's the thing but he also has odds put into the launcher pack on Windows so inevitably no I'm just I just played on Windows because you can't fight City Hall you can sure try though

I do plan on perhaps moving this world over to Windows and see if I can get it to run first with Lazy Noob Pack and then I might try getting the Meph Launcher going with it because I do like his tile set a lot. Yeah, I just feel like I've gotten very dependent on some of his mods. I love the librarian. I think that some of his new workshops, he's got a crematory, which is pretty cool

and so you can like turn bits of old creatures or whatever into ash that's pretty useful the gem forge is pretty neat he's got some cool stuff and he's like a pixel artist so he's done the

he's drawn up the workshops for him too which makes it even more fun it's all fun everything's fun it's all fun I love it all I should play this game more yes another thing that Adams talked about the villains development he is going to be taking that

and putting a hard stop whenever he gets done with those additions and they're going to release a Dwar Fortress Classic if you will and at that point and they talked like that they wanted this to be happening maybe a fall of this year at that point they are going to stop new feature development and put all of their attention on user interface and making the user interface be much better so that it will be more accessible to people on Steam. And that all of the things that are there now will still be there for whoever wants it,

but there will also be easier ways to do things for people who aren't used to the Door Fortress interface. I think that sounds like a great idea. Yeah, yeah. It's somebody, another thing that was posted this past week on Reddit was another article about, you know, Door Fortress is this impossible, but beautiful game. And I was like, you know, I don't know that it's, I don't know, I'd call it impossible.

I think it's like anything. You know, you can learn how to, if you've played a base builder game or, you know, any of those SimCity things, the concepts are there. So maybe if you've never played that, it seems draconian. But the interface, if you use a good guy, it's like it's not intuitive by any stretch of the imagination. And I won't try to say that it is. But I wouldn't say it's impossible.

I mean, the concepts make sense. and things mostly work the way that they should. So I think you can get reasonably competent in a short period of time, but then there's just definite, you know, there are definite levels that you can kind of ascend into. And you're always going to find new things that you didn't know about, like the, you know, how do you keep them happy? Will you make piles or, you know, how do you make soap?

Well, that feels impossible at first. But then by the end, you know, realize we just need to have these three things. It's that. It's not a big deal. Okay. And then I think about mind cards. And then now I, now, never mind. It's all just not.

It's impossible. It does suck. I give up. This game's too hard. Go away. Stop listening. I'm not 100% sure what you really would use mine carts for anyway. Is it like a faster wheelbarrow?

I don't know. But you know what we should do. We should put out a call. for mine carts like if there's a mine cart engineer yeah do you know let's if anybody does that maybe with them on to educate us on the beautiful brilliance of mind carts because I'm yeah I want to know I want to that sounds awesome well potentially the keyette's user I think he asked exactly that get someone on there who talks about mine carts well yeah yeah he asked for us for us for us

to do that and I was like my cards you're saying I mean I do make wheel barriers because I don't have to care but my cards are like

what what but they're the great stuff you can do with them potentially like an automatic siege cleanup

or just putting random liquids into barrels like goblin sweat and sending that to elves it's just horrible but it's the elves so and and you label it as it's drinking water so the elves so so the elves just will drink it and like hmm it tastes salty oh my my my my I think that might be a good place to wrap things up. Yeah, sounds good. We look back through here at the Reddit. Oh, well, one thing, we've been getting nothing but nice, positive feedback from our listeners.

And they seem to like the format of the show that I am an idiot and you guys know more. And that the Roland is sadistic and Tony has a has a, has a. dry sharp wit I think was the description that someone gave it so he didn't call me an idiot and he didn't call Roland sadistic

but I think he did use the term dry wit for Tony's oh I like it Yeah it seems to be resonating well with listeners and I'm very happy about that so anybody else got anything they want to talk about this week

not really Nope crickets and Tindrop. Golden. Happy Father's Day again to all the dads up there. Have a dwarfy town. Yeah, everybody have a dwarfy week.

You know, it sounds all right at the beginning, but if you use dwarfy as an adjective too much, it just loses its coolness. Yeah, y'all have a great week. Glad you're feeling better, Roland. Same. And seen. This has been Dwarf Fortress Roundtable,

the podcast for all things dwarfy. You can find all our past episodes at DFRoundable.com. Please stop by and leave a comment or suggestion in the comment section of this episode. While you're there, you can subscribe to Dwarf Fortress Roundtable or find us in the podcast service of your choice. Music is Skykewelen, composed by Kevin McLeod. You can find Kevin McLeod's music at Incompetec.com. You can find a link in the show notes. This is a microcline podcast.

All crafts dwarf ship is of the highest quality. It is encrusted with rectangular microclined cabbichons and encircled with bands of oval mica cabbashons and oval microcline cabbashions. This podcast menaces with spikes of mica and granite. On the podcast is the image of point-cut gems in mica.