Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - 160: Is Texting Ruining Friendships? | Ear Biscuits Ep. 160

Episode Date: September 10, 2018

R&L dissect their own texting relationship, the illusion of closeness, and the difference between connection and communication on this week's episode of Ear Biscuits. Sponsored by:Amazon Alexa: Just say, "Alexa, what are your top skills?" to find some of the most popular skills23andMe: Visit 23andMe.com/EARS to order your 23andMe Health + Ancestry Service kitMint Mobile: Visit MintMobile.com/ear for a wireless plan for just $15/month and free shipping on your mint SIM card To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This. This. This. This. Is Mythical. Before we get going today, we wanna let you know that Ear Biscuits is supported by Alexa. Did you know Alexa can help you do many things like play a game, relax with sleep sounds,

listen to live sports, and much more. Whatever you wanna do, Alexa has a skill for that. I already know that, man. I got Alexa in my bedroom. Both of my kids got Alexa in their room. And then we got Alexa downstairs. We're in constant conversation with Alexa and using all the skills.

There's 30,000, more than 30,000 skills available at amazon.com slash skills. Also, the skills tab in your Amazon Alexa app. Now they're saying we should try out the sleep and relaxation sounds. Well. Play ambient sounds to sleep peacefully or block unwanted noise at work.

I've done this, Link. There are over 125 sounds to choose from. Yeah, I've been experimenting with which ones I wanna use to block you out during work. Just say, Alexa, open sleep sounds to block out Rett. Now, and you know I'm big into sleep sounds. I have had a white noise machine that I have talked about a lot,

but now that I got Alexa in my bedroom, all I gotta do is ask Alexa to play the sleep sounds, man, and then it just gets so, it gets so peaceful in my bedroom. What about Alexa, ask meat thermometer what is the best temperature for pork butt? I don't know why you'd ask that in the bedroom, but that's up to you. I cook my pork in the bedroom.

Alexa, ask arcade party to play 1983. Oh crap, you can make your home or office sound like a vintage arcade from 1983. Yeah, you can do so many different things. Over 30,000, try an Alexa skill today. Browse all skills available on the Amazon Alexa app or at amazon.com slash skills, or just say, Alexa, what are your top skills?

On any Alexa-enabled device to find some of the most popular skills. Now on with the biscuit. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Link. And I'm Rhett. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we are exploring the question, is texting ruining friendships?

Specifically our friendship, Rhett. Is texting ruining our friendship? No, I'm not, we're not limiting this discussion to just our friendship. I think we're, I want to analyze my kids and their friendships and how they use not only texting, I mean we'll broaden it to technology, we'll focus in on social media. Wow, I mean the things as a dad that I find myself,

did I say myselfs? Yeah, well you also said wow and then said a sentence about being a dad which is very appropriate. Wow, I'm a dad. And I find myself really tackling some odd issues when it comes to social media and what I think about the quality of a relationship you can have when it's conducted mostly in that way. Mostly through your phone, not speaking into it,

but typing things into it. Yeah. Is another way to say it. But we should start with us. I think one of the things I'm prepared to do is share our very first text conversation. Like our first conversation as friends over text. I have it, I have it on my phone.

I've told you about it so you have it on your phone. I do have it on my phone as well. And we're gonna share it with you as an opening salvo into the world of technology, texting, and how it impacts friendships. Yes, we'll get to that in one second. We do wanna let you know that we are going to be at the NC State Fair.

I wanna do it like a monster truck announcer because. You just did. Rhett and Link comedians. Wow dads. Comedy duo Rhett and Link will be live at the NC State Fair, October 12th, 7.30 p.m., Dorton Arena. All you got to do is get admission into the fair, and you can show up there to watch Rhett and Link do their thing on stage at Dorton Arena.

Yeah. For more details and tickets to the fair, go to ncstatefair.org. What's the name of a monster truck? Bigfoot? Bigfoot will not be present. Gravedigger. Gravedigger will not be present. Little Bigfoot.

Little Bigfoot will be present. Hey, Rhett and Link will be riding in on the present. Little Bigfoot. Little Bigfoot will be present. Hey, Rhett and Link will be riding in on the back of Little Bigfoot. All right, that's it. Kiko, thank you for adding some sort of music bed of generic metal guitar type thing just to really sell what just happened. Okay, yeah.

Was it clear we're gonna be at the NC State Fair? I think that was not only clear, it was very powerful. Okay, good. And you know what? No need to dwell on it. Well, I'll dwell on it in a second because just another word about the creative associated with it which we're developing currently.

Oh, the creative. This is gonna be a freaking bonafide concert, y'all. And we're just kinda dipping our toe in, well we're not dipping our toe in, we're doing a freaking hour. I'm going at least knee deep. We're doing an hour and a half show, which is music.

Mostly music. It's a concert. It's not the Tour of Mythicality, okay? Which if you saw that, was like a theatrical presentation. We are doing the Tour of Mythicality in November in the Northeast, but this is a different show. This is gonna be just a music show.

Because I see the future, Rhett. I can see into 2019. I can see that we might wanna do more concerts. We'll see how it goes, man. Well, if it doesn't go well at the state fair, yeah, we won't think about it anymore. But we'll have the smell of cow dung wafting in, you know, it's right.

Cow dung in one nostril and like Polish sausage in another nostril. Yes. I love the way those two things mix. Yes. Lot of nostalgia, so I'm glad to be going back. All my family members are hitting me up via text. Well, I told my parents about it and my dad said, well, we haven't been to the NC State Fair

since the first year we were in North Carolina. Really? Which was 1984. Well, my mom's husband, Louis, boy, it's the highlight of his year. He goes multiple times. I love it, man. I think it's like two weeks. He goes multiple times just to go.

Yeah, I'd camp out there if they allowed that. He loves it, man. Anyway, we have, let's see, I have dug up the very first text exchange between my good buddy Rhett and I, I had to enter my code on my phone, I couldn't do it while I was talking. Now I gotta say, I gotta say,

that was a little bit of a deceptive teaser. Well. It was a little bit of a misdirection. Are you saying that because this text exchange between us happened yesterday? It happened on Saturday. Okay, day before. Because I can see it right now.

Day before yesterday. But let me, so let me explain. I'm gonna read this text thread to you, conversation that I initiated, and at a certain point I'll explain why this is, this is the first of its kind. But it starts with, from me. I'll just read my part, so.

This is pretty cool. And then I put a screenshot of an Amazon review of our book into a text to you. I had, and then I wrote, I had never actually gone into Amazon and read reviews of our book. And you know, I just needed a little warm and fuzzy feeling from the mythical beast.

Who am I kidding? Sometimes you're just sitting around looking at your phone and you're like, I was actually going on Kindle, the Kindle app to like download. I wanted to start reading another book on my Kindle. Right. And so when I went on there, I was like, you know what, I just kinda like to look at the fact

that we have a book in there, so I'm gonna do that for a second. Just to remind myself, I'm a published author. It just makes me, I mean, it made me feel good. It's like, wow, you know what, by the way, since I'm in here, it's kinda like you go into Barnes & Noble, you go, don't you ever go by this section to see if our book's in there?

I have. Kinda make you feel like, gives you a little boost. Noble, don't you ever go by the section to see if our book's in there? I have. Kind of make you feel like, gives you a little boost? I don't camp out there, I walk by there briskly and make eye contact with the book, but I don't touch it. I would never be caught touching my own book in public. Or like sitting there waiting for someone to come up and. I'm not an idiot, I'm not a douchebag. And then I started reading the reviews for the first time

and I was blown away with the level with which people will not only write about what they think of the book but write about the connection to us. Yeah, well and so. And so then I screenshot one of those and sent it to you because it made me feel really good. And when you sent this to me. This is from Hamilton.

I thought, hmm, okay. This isn't that unusual for you to send a message like this. This was, I would say, totally usual because this is. Right, and so I responded with, yeah, I've read some of those. Our rating is pretty unprecedented for a book with that many ratings. Oh yeah, another warm fuzzy, little ego stroke.

At the time I wrote that, I didn't expect to be reading it publicly back to everyone. I thought it was just for me and you. Right, we brag even between the two of us in private conversations, but. But it wasn't a brag, it was just a, yeah, it's kind of unusual to have that many ratings and to be five stars.

I was like, it's great, I mean, this is a good thing. We're just celebrating the fact that this is good, that people like the book. And then I responded, and the things reviewers are writing about their connection to us, et cetera, it's probably the best place to go to understand our older post-college audience. So this is just us working.

This is not anything unusual. This is not the first of its kind. This is just another moment via text where I should be relaxing, chilling out on a Saturday afternoon, but instead I'm trying to simultaneously stroke my ego and get some work accomplished. How can we utilize these reviews to further understand our demographic and blah, blah, blah.

And you wrote that at 1.36 p.m. And as you can see, I had assumed that okay, end of conversation, I do not need to respond to this last thing, so I did not respond to it. Thought conversation's over, it was an exchange of information as is typical given our text history.

And then it got weird. It got new. I decided to change the subject and I just said, how was the concert last night? That's a first. That's an absolute first on our text thread to ask a purely friendly conversation starter text. We do not use texting in this way.

Ever. Never have. Never have. You may think it sounds weird, but we do not use texting, we use text to exchange information, but conversations like how was your day, or how was the concert last night, always happen in person, okay?

Never done it. But I just went with it. Okay, I went with it, I said great. He puts on a really good show. Now I was talking about Jason Isbell and the 400 Unit played at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles. I was invited to go by Rhett and I politely declined for reasons that I'll get into.

And Jason is one of my favorite artists and I've seen him before live. My wife, actually my whole family loves him. We play the songs all the time in the house, in the car, so I brought everybody. Locke, for a number of reasons, didn't end up being able to go, but Jesse and Shepherd and I went, had a great time.

So, and I said it, he puts on a really good show, but again. That's not the point of this. I didn't expand beyond that because I was like, didn't seem like the time or the place. It never has been for us before. And again, I do think we maybe should, before we'll read the rest of this text there in one second,

but just to clarify further, I mean, text has just been something that's been purely for logistics. Like, we may even go far as to say, hey, I wanna hear about the concert. Like that might be something that I would text. But I wouldn't say, how was it? Let's have a legitimate friendly conversation right now.

It'd be like, let's put a pin in this until we're together when we conduct our friendship and then we'll do that. Right. I think it's how old we are. You know? Let's not analyze it all throughout. Let's keep going. Right. I think it's how old we are. You know? Let's not analyze it all throughout. Let's keep going. Let's get through it.

See, you're already bored with it, you hate it. Yeah. How was the concert last night? Great, he puts on a really good show. I said, I just can't get into his driving rock songs. I just like the slow ones. Whereas someone like First Aid Kit, who we're going to see soon, I like all of what they do.

This point I'm like, this is weird, we are in a conversation that we've never had on the phones before, but again, I don't dislike it. I was also doing nothing. I was also doing nothing at the time. Oh, that's great. I was sitting somewhere in my house and I was like, okay, It's totally true. I was also doing nothing at the time. Oh, that's great. I was sitting somewhere in my house and I was like, okay, Ling wants to talk, weird.

And you said. I love how Feldman is like very confused. I knew you would be. That we don't talk like this. And here's the thing, I said that I wasn't gonna stop and analyze it, I told you not to analyze it, but now because of his reactions I have to. I told you before this started that I don't think stop and analyze it. I told you not to analyze it, but now because of his reactions, I have to. I told you before this started

that I don't think it's how old we are. I think it's a combination of how old we are and how we are, period. Because there are other 40-year-old people who text relationally, but it is exclusive. I mean, kids do it almost exclusively. They're constantly conducting their relationships via text. But it's less common. They don't remember a time

when they didn't do that. Right, but we had to transition into it and we never did. It didn't seem right. And you know an interesting thing, a reminder, at the top of this, I can see your picture and look at it. This picture is the picture of you the moment you bought your very first iPhone. And it was the moment you bought your very first iPhone

because you have a picture of you in the same place. The first thing we did when we got our iPhones was take a picture of each other and store our contact information in our iPhones and that picture has not changed. You don't even have a beard, Rhett. And in the picture we're both. You have a chin strap. We thought it would be a good idea

if the picture of the other person had them on the phone in their picture so that you would be able to picture what they looked like when they were talking to you, which is on a phone. And then for. Made sense to me. That's the very first picture I ever took put in there

and then for years after that, sometimes still now on a whim, if I'm entering someone into my contacts, I don't even know if that's what it's called anymore. Address book? Contacts. Yeah, it hasn't changed that much. I'll tell them to, I'll say, hold up your phone

like I'm calling you. Yeah. And then I'll take the picture. It's a cool thing to do still in 2018. Get with it, kids. Never changed that photo. So that's when we first learned how to do this. I mean, we were out of college, we had children.

Right, but okay, but when you questioned the greatness of Jason Isbell because of his driving rock songs, which I think is a little bit of a mischaracterization. You know what I mean. I said the harder ones work well in person. He's got a really good band. And now I'm on a roll, relationally.

I'm like, ah, I could see that. Did you get recognized, dot, dot, dot, by him? I thought that was an interesting way to ask the question because typically the pause, the dot, dot, dot indicates a pause, but when you send it all as one text, it's just, I see it all together. But I understood what you were implying,

which is, hey, I'm asking you to get recognized as Rhett from Rhett and Link. By him. But then by him, because you know that I once tweeted at Jason, and he tweeted back at me and started following me. One of the greatest honors of my life. I didn't know that, I was just making a joke.

And so I said. Like from stage while he was performing, he like stopped everything and singled you out. And because we are not good at this relational texting, you can see we cross texted in the middle of this. This is the point where I didn't answer your question, I was adding to my previous answer, but it came later. They both came at 1.45 p.m.

I said, and the lyrics, the best. John Mayer called him the best lyricist today. Now I must say, the reason I said that is because a drunk woman behind me said it during the concert. So I don't, her word is her bond. I don't have independent verification of that, but she said a lot of things throughout the evening, and I heard all of them and so did Shepard.

Oh. But one thing she did say to her dad, who she was with, when her dad was like, ah, I love his lyrics. The dad was obviously being introduced to Jason Isbell at the concert, and he was like, I just love the lyrics. And then she was like, John Mayer says that he's the best lyricist of all time, Dad. So I wanted to send that to you, I did.

But then I answered your question. And us using John Mayer as a, like a measuring stick for greatness, it does show our age. Well, because John Mayer is one of the best lyricists of all time as well. So in a- Oh is he? I think so. I think he's great. I think he's great.

I like all of his hard songs and his soft songs. I think that about- I'm 40. Oh, okay. John Mayer is amongst the best modern day lyricists. Is that a more, is that a less sensational thing to say? I really like John Mayer. He's not just good on the guitar, guys. He can write a great song.

I then answered the question, no, didn't see him. And then I- You mean Jason? Yes. Then I talked about seeing someone that we both know. Okay, we'll skip this part. We're gonna skip over this part. It's not important. And then I said, but fans?

So at this point, am I making this about work again? Like, I mean, this is kind of revealing. I'm getting a little self-conscious now. It's like I'm talking about my hot tub again. I'm like, I'm trying to have a friendly conversation with my buddy for the first time ever on text with no agenda. But we're not.

And then I'm like, did you get recognized? Yeah, but you gotta contextualize this for the people listening because when we talk about that kind of thing, we're obviously not bragging to each other. Me telling you that I got recognized is not so I can be like hey man, I got recognized again. I was legitimately curious.

It's a data point for our business. Right, because if. So we talk about it. If we both really love Jason and Isabel, you more than me because we've established that and then you're there and you get recognized, it's like, oh, people who have good taste in music also like us, that's a good sign. Right, the Venn diagram of good tastes.

That's a good sign. Right, the Venn diagram of good tastes. But then I said, no, that was in the VIP area. Again, I'm not bragging. I'm just relating things to Link here. I was like, but still, I might would have gone with the VIP area or was it lame? I was like, nah, it was nothing. Same kind of thing we did for the Merle concert

at the Greek before we knew him. I was like. Sounds like a couple of douches talking. Yeah, it really does. We're horrible at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, yeah, so no fans there? I'm like pressing.

Yeah, and I was like, couple of people got a picture. And I'm like, yes. And then I'm like, I'm going deeper. I'm gonna make a bold choice. By this point, I felt weird because I had been sitting down texting for multiple minutes and I never do this. I don't just sit down and text.

What kind of freak does that? Right, me neither. Right. But if we were, it wouldn't be to each other because we're so self-aware of our, like the parameters of our relationship, if we do something that's not like something that we do in our relationship, alarms start going off.

It's like, oh you started talking over text or you helped me with my seatbelt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the car. Or. Why are you helping me with my seatbelt? Or you hugged me when you saw me. Right.

I mean like we have groups of friends and all our friends are huggers and like we see them all the time. And we hug them every time. And then I kinda go through everybody then I see you and I'm like I kinda nod at you. If I even acknowledge you. Right.

It's kinda like seeing yourself in the mirror. Do you hug yourself in the mirror or do you just make eye contact briefly and then move on? Do you hug yourself in the mirror or do you just make eye contact briefly and then move on? We, it's like a, we say we're like an old married couple, but even an old married couple still hug each other, unabashedly, right? But an old married, maybe they don't,

an old married couple, the reason why we're like an old married couple is that we have certain, we have our protocols of relationship, of friendship, and they're set. So anything that deviates from that, like having just a friendly text exchange, is a deviation, which means it's odd, which means something must be up.

I was fully committed at this point. I think this can lead to growth in our relationship. And let's put a pin in that. We need to come back to that thought, okay? Yeah, we need to get through this so we can get to the analysis. Oh God, or at least the ad. Yeah, we gotta get to the ad.

Gotta put an ad in this podcast. That's really what matters. Okay, where was I? Subject change is what you, you put it in brackets. I actually put in brackets subject change. Which I think that's a sign of age as well. Yeah, that's, people don't do that. I don't think the kids know where brackets are.

I said, a fan pointed out that we say smell of that instead of saying smell that when we try to get the other person to smell something. You say, I saw that comment and I think it's crazy. I don't say that. And I said, you're saying I say that? And you said, I would have guessed it, but I'm saying I don't think I do. And what I meant to say that and I said, you're saying I say that? And you said, I would have guessed it, but I'm saying I don't think I do.

And what I meant to say was, I wouldn't have guessed it, but I am saying that I don't think I do definitively. And I said, so yes, you are saying that. Because you misunderstood what I was saying and at that point I didn't respond. No, you were saying that I did and you didn't. And that ended our conversation and apparently our friendship. No, no.

And apparently our friendship. Again, even though we are now face to face, what I'm saying is what I meant to write was, I wouldn't have guessed that you said that. Oh, but instead I took offense. Yeah, yeah. Like I took pseudo offense, I thought it was funny, but I just thought you were being belligerent.

Well, I would have guessed it that you said it, but I wouldn't have said it. Exactly, and this is the problem with texting for relationships, okay? And I did not know this until the moment. This is one of the pitfalls, and I didn't even realize that this is why the conversation ended, because what I meant to say was, well,

I would've never said that you would've said it. If I had to choose between the two of us, I would guess that you were the one who said it, and, but I never heard you say it that I know of and I'm pretty sure that I've never said it. Now I'm probably wrong on all counts and I probably will get like a super cut of me saying smell of that.

Posted to YouTube. Please do. I wanna see a super cut to see if that's true or not because that's a big question. But there is a bigger question which I want to save until we explore multiple avenues in the quality of friendship when conducted over technology, text, social media, across our lives, our kids' lives.

Right. Our friends' lives. And whether or not that's good or bad or indifferent. And let's come back to this exchange. Oh, you wanna keep coming back to it? No, at the very end and see if there's any ultimate conclusion that we can apply to our own friendship. Sure, I think that's a great idea.

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Yeah, and BetterHelp is somebody that we've wanted to work with for a while because we haven't talked about this a lot, but mental health is very important to us and specifically, I've kind of hinted at this a little bit about some of the personal growth that I have experienced over the past year. A big part of that has been going to therapy. I've been going to therapy.

I'm sure we'll talk about that more in a subsequent episode, but some of the stuff I've been talking about, getting to know myself better and connect with what I'm actually feeling has come out during therapy, so it's something that I highly recommend. Yeah, and it's the type of thing that we think everyone should experience, which is why we're so excited

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go to mintmobile.com slash ear. That's mintmobile.com slash ear. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month and get free shipping on your Mint Mobile SIM card at mintmobile.com slash ear. Now on with the biscuit. All right, okay. We're gonna get back into some of the personal,

we'll analyze that text exchange at the end. We're gonna get into talking about the way that we've kind of related to our kids and the way that they are different than us. I thought a good way to get into this is just some stats, you know, me and the stats. These stats come from Psychology Today and relate to using text as a form of communication.

33% of adults and 77% of 18 to 22 year olds prefer texts over all forms of communication, including in person. Wow, 77% 18 to 22 year olds would rather text than anything else. You have to, and I think you can extrapolate that and say that if you're under 18, that number is definitely higher than 77%.

So it's safe to say that more than 77%, more than eight out of 10 kids, teenagers and younger, if you've got a phone, prefer texting over all forms of communication. A third of all adults prefer text to phone calls. Text is the most used form of communication for adults under age 50, and Americans send five times as many texts as compared with phone calls each day.

Now just a quick side note really, because I said Americans send all these texts. 75% of the world uses some type of video chat application like Skype or WhatsApp in place of texting. The majority of users around the world average only six minutes of texting daily. So the texting at this rate is a bit of a, I don't wanna say Western phenomenon, it's partly that,

but it tends to be places that have had a lot of financial success and everybody has a smartphone. But it's interesting because a lot of these people in these places have, like India, a lot of people have smartphones and computers, but they're talking to each other via video chat. And I don't know exactly, I don't know any of the reasons for why that's the case, but just an interesting tidbit

that came up in this. Well, I think that we're approaching this from a weird place, right? As evidenced by our first text exchanges friends being two days ago. We are assimilating to something that our kids and the rest of society as they grow up are assimilating to something that our kids and the rest of society as they grow up are just growing into instinctively.

So for us, I think that there's an exercise in seeing how utilizing technology and our phones can increase the quality of our friendships. It's something that I've been very resistant to. Whereas most people and I think well, younger people or what I'm afraid of for my kids, I'll put it in, I'll couch it that way.

Is that the opposite extreme? That if they would prefer to text versus anything else, how does that impact your relationships? And not only that, even your ability to conduct a meaningful relationship. Right. You know, I mean, are they being short-circuited by technology

to have a lower capacity for connection? But I think we should start with our own experience. Yeah, I think for me, before I looked at the research, which we're gonna continue to get into, because I never really looked at this. I had just heard and also I think just naturally inferred and assumed that this just can't be a good thing. Sometimes I have a tendency to,

and my wife calls me out on this quite a bit, to begin sounding like the old, grumpy old man who thinks that this generation, in fact, one time my mom told me that when she was hanging out with Shepherd, who again, at the time was like eight years old, she said Shepherd was talking about something related to Locke and, she said, Shepard was talking about something related to Locke and he literally said,

"'This generation of teenagers.'" This is an eight year old speaking. You can imagine where he got that from. And I'm like, okay, well maybe I have been, and I don't wanna be that guy because every older generation thinks that there are deficits in the younger generation and the reality most often is that yes, there are deficits, but there's also areas in which they are better,

more equipped for different things. And you see that as you look and analyze, there's places online you can go and just analyze the different generations and their propensity to drug abuse and divorce and that kind of thing and there is an ebb and flow. The world isn't, contrary to popular belief, every generation isn't getting worse

and the world isn't going to hell in a handbasket. It's a popular narrative, not true. Well there's a general, there's an overall trajectory towards the hell in a handbasket, all right? Come on, work with me. No, there's not. In fact, Might have a couple good years, but. In fact, it's absolutely the opposite on the whole.

But that's not what this podcast is about today. And I think we're trying to, so in the spirit of that mindset, I've tried to say, you know what? We've developed over the past few years a group of friends who we hang out together. I mean, there's like, there's around a dozen of us. It's kind of crazy that we've all connected in this way,

that we spend a lot of time together. I mean, on any two-week stretch, we all see each other. You know? Which is very unusual in Los Angeles. Yeah, it's awesome. But what happened was, right from the beginning, they created a text thread and added me to it, added you to it, added our wives to it.

The kids of the adults in the group, they kinda, I think they have their own text there too. I don't know that for sure, but I think they have to. I didn't know. I was like, well, and then they just start talking on it. And I just, the first thing I observed was just a general attitude of, well, I'm not gonna do this.

Well, they were doing things like putting memes into the text. It's like what am I, you know, a 12 year old? And I would observe it from a distance and think, this is funny, these are funny people, they're having a good time. I'm having a good time. And sometimes things would get more serious

and somebody would share something that they wanted to share with the group they were dealing with or whatever and people would offer advice and perspective. Be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is a little more than. Like this is happening on my phone? This is a little more than like a mildly inappropriate GIF.

This is some actual life stuff happening within a text thread. Sometimes majorly inappropriate. Yeah. You gotta watch yourself. Yeah. But. And so then I thought, well, okay, I'll warm up to it, maybe I'll try it and then I'm like trying to chime in

and I find myself absolutely paralyzed. Like not even beginning to type and delete. Not creating that cloud that then, oh he's typing. Again, I think this is, I don't think that this is absolutely normal. I think that we're both a little bit in the abnormal place when it comes to this because what I did, I think a lot of it has to do with the way

that we've scheduled our day. Yeah. A lot of the people in the group are super creative and they're- They don't have regimented schedules. I don't know of anyone else who has a nine to five. Like we're creative, this is what we do for a living, but given our, you know, we've got a lot of left brain

going on as well, we just naturally sort of fall into this schedule of coming to an office and having meetings and having a bunch of stuff on our schedule and then going home. Everything's very regimented for us. And so like social text conversations don't fit naturally. But even when we were at home, just sitting there seeing these texts come through, I, early on,

silented the conversation. Oh yeah, because you did not get the notifications. Because my phone would just be once they got going. And I didn't know how to contribute and I, now let me just, I wasn't gonna get to this yet, but let me throw something in there because there's a study that shows,

and I think this is very applicable for what we're talking about and the way that we perceive this group. There's a study that shows, this is in the Journal of Computers and Human Behavior. I got that on my coffee table. The study found that similarity in texting styles was linked to relationship satisfaction.

So texting in the same way at similar frequencies makes people feel like their relationships are going well. Now this was done in the context of romantic relationships but people analyze how connected they are based on if there's symmetry in their texting. So you're texting about the same kind of things, you're texting as often as each other approximately. And so I think that we began to perceive

that because we weren't participating in the text thread, I think I began to think that maybe they think that I don't care about them as much as they care about me or whatever or I don't care about this group. And we ended up talking about that as a group in person, not on the text thread, but because somebody else in the group was like, I'm sorry, I don't text, that's not what I do.

And then we were like, us too. Sorry, we think it's really funny and we love all you guys, but we just don't, we don't naturally contribute in this way. It's not normal, we don't do it with anybody. It's not just you, it's me. Yeah, so we felt self-conscious, but I did notice, even though I was lurking, I felt so much more connected to the group.

And I mean, with 12 other people, I mean, there's still like five that do most of the texting, but, and so I started to soften to it a little bit. To fast forward over a year later, I still don't text that often. Yeah. But I appreciate it so much more as a legitimate form of connection.

And then recently, I think we experienced the limit of that, you know? Because we got into some stuff, right? And I think I have a, I'm gonna go back into some data which I think informs what happened and then what happened again up top in our conversation. Because I started to get really hopeful. I'm like, man, it's like, we try to see each other

every week but if we don't, we've got this thread. It's like literally, it's a constant thing that keeps going, a thread of connection. Is that why they call it a thread? Yep. Wow. You just figured it out, you just cracked the code. I just did it.

Okay, so what's the problem? What are the pitfalls? Well, and where do they stem from? According to UCLA professor Albert Morabian. Great guy, weird mustache. Probably pronouncing that wrong, Albert. You know, Dr. Albert. I think you're saying Albert correctly.

During face-to-face conversation, humans, this is the percentage of different factors that you are relying on for communication when you are having a face-to-face conversation. Two homo sapiens talking to each other. 58% of the communication is in the body language. Over half, 35% is through vocal tone, pitch, and emphasis. That leaves 7% for content of message.

Ouch. Okay, so let me just say that again in case you didn't understand. When you're talking to someone and you're communicating to them, if they're picking up what you're laying down, it is based on 58% body language, 35% vocal tone, pitch, and emphasis,

the way that you're speaking, and 7% content of message. Now, Albert, I don't know you. I'm not, you know, you may not be omniscient and this may not be exactly 100% true, but I think that the gist is definitely true. You know what I'm saying, it's like how do you break down communication, what was the nature of the study.

What I'm basically saying though is that a small percentage, potentially 7% but definitely a minority of what you're communicating to someone is related to what you're saying. The words coming out of your mouth. Because we're animals. Right. You know, we've developed, we've evolved in an interactive space.

And our communication, our communication with each other was way more about all this 58% and 35%, the 93% of communication was the basis of communication before humans evolved the ability to speak. So you were. I can communicate a lot. I can go into my monster truck voice if you want me to. But.

I tend to think that I was, my ancestors. Okay. Distant, where they were, it was more like meowing and purring. It was gentler. Cats? Cat-like. Okay.

Don't believe that that's how the evolutionary tree breaks down, but whatever. But the bee is my spirit animal. The point is we're at a place where we still, listen guys, biologically speaking, we haven't changed much in a couple hundred thousand years. So we're severely handicapping our ability to communicate when you limit it to that 7%.

We're funneling. And that's not even including spell check. We are funneling the breadth of human communication into this tiny little slit that is 7% of our communication capabilities. Meaning that all these things that serve as visual and auditory signals to help you actually understand what people are saying is completely not present

when you're sending a text message. And so. When you start to get into things, just to go back to the story, with our friend group, we start, I mean, I'm not gonna dish dirt on what we had to deal with, but it was the type of thing that there were concerns, there was emotions involved,

there was, it was heated, there were, it wasn't an argument, but it was different perspectives. It became an argument. So there was a couple of things that were misunderstood, a couple of things that were said and a few times people kinda pitched in and said, shouldn't we just talk about this in person? There was people who kinda wanted to bail

on the text thread. I even sent that text at one point and was like, can we just talk about this in person? Now, we did end up getting together and talking through some of the things that were texted and I ultimately think that the combination of the two things was good, but I don't wanna come to that conclusion yet. I don't wanna get there yet because I think right now

what we're exploring is the inadequacy of text-only communication in relationships. In friendships and relationships. I'm not trying to get into the details of the story which are not appropriate to go into here so we're not gonna do that but the only point I'm making is I experienced firsthand pushing the deepest connection with the heart and the mind via text

and just hitting a wall and saying all right, we have to get together to finish this conversation. This can't happen digitally. Right. You know, so I mean, we explored the depths of it. Well we kinda went through what I think is ultimately and is kinda what just happened with us at the beginning of this is what we would kinda prescribe

as the method of using text and face-to-face conversation in conjunction. Let's wait to totally land that plane because I think that when I think about my kids, and when I was looking at this research, I was like, I kinda feel like I should talk to my kids about this because I would've never, I knew that all these visual and auditory cues

were things that were huge in communication, but I'm also not necessarily texting on my phone, but text-based communication, email, is something that I believe in. In fact, a lot of times, even though I can engage in a conversation, I can usually get my thoughts across in a pretty compelling way, I prefer many times to type things out because you have a chance

to kind of center yourself and move through the information at the pace that you want without interruption, without having to justify things as you go when you do a vocal exchange with somebody. A vocal exchange. Or verbal exchange. La la la la la. But.

I ironically am doing it right now. The research suggests that text-based relationships, texting in the context of a relationship Research suggests that text-based relationships, texting in the context of a relationship can give you the illusion of closeness, but it actually is decreasing relational stability and satisfaction because you feel like. It makes it worse?

Is that what you're saying? Yes. So there is a risk that if you are relying primarily on textual communication in a relationship, you are creating a false sense of intimacy and closeness. But because that 93% of yourself that this person would be getting if it was a face-to-face conversation is not present, you ultimately, and again, this is based on a bunch

of studies kind of together analyzed and people come into conclusions about those, is that it makes you feel like you're connected, but ultimately, if you're not actually having face-to-face connection, you're not nearly as close as you perceive. And I think the same thing, I think it's ultimately true in friendships, but it kind of is really, really,

it's exacerbated in the context of a romantic relationship. I mean, I do, obviously there are many successful in the real world romantic relationships that started, or I mean, even continued for long periods of time that were just like text-based, pen pal based. Yeah. You know?

And I don't wanna diminish, I'm not trying to diminish that, I'm just saying that the risks. I would venture to guess that anyone who has a successful relationship in the real world that went through just text for a long time, when they added that component of actually being in the same space, having the complete ability to communicate, that that added a facet to the relationship

that they would not prefer to give up. And it may actually make or break a relationship. You know what I'm saying? So you may be like, ugh, this kinda seemed to work. Again, I think this happens all the time. You start an online relationship with somebody, you think there's an incredible connection, because again, it creates a connection

that's very isolated and funneled down to this one sort of form of communication. And it doesn't mean that other parts of your brain are not involved. In terms of the way that you're responding, when you get a text from somebody, there's a dopamine rush and you get into this dopamine loop where you're waiting to have somebody react.

And yeah, Feldman, catfishing is a great example of that. That's the prime example of you think you've got a connection with somebody and then you found out you got catfishing is a great example of that. That's the prime example of you think you've got a connection with somebody and then you found out you got catfished. But even sort of short of that. And what happens with that, by the way? It's when you meet a girl online and it's really just a big dude in his basement

who's catfishing you. For what? To get money from you, to just get off on it. There's multiple reasons that somebody would do that. How would they get money from you, to just get off on it. There's multiple reasons that somebody would do that. How would they get money from you? Hey, we've got this connection, but I really need braces. Oh, but you don't.

But you don't. Could you send me $3,000 so I can get braces? But you never meet in person. Well, my point where I was going was, when you do meet in person and it's just a big dude in his basement, it doesn't have the same effect as if it was like a hot girl without braces.

Well but his teeth are straight, right? When the host of Catfish show up. Yeah, yeah, when the host of Catfish. So the show on MTV, you should watch it. Oh I don't have that stage. But what I'm talking about is not catfishing but just like oh, we had this connection and this can happen in the context

of an already-existent relationship, right? You could be like, you were in Brazil for a month, and we communicated via text, and it seemed like we were so close, and then you showed up, and it was like, there's nothing there in person. Can you go back to Brazil so we can text? Again, there's something happening in your brain.

You're rewarding yourself for this communication, but are you really connecting? And let's bring it back to friendship and our kids. I think the thing that I'm concerned about is that you have these shallow friendships that are just, it's caption-based conversations, you know? It's like a little blip blip and a blip blip here. I mean, I don't look at the specifics

of their conversations. I talk to my kids about the conversations that they're having and we strive to have a level of openness there. But I just get concerned that, again, as we experienced, you can only have, you can only really care for somebody so much, even if it's a lot over text as a friend. So I'm not talking romantically.

I just think that being able to, on one hand, tell the difference between who's an acquaintance and who's an actual friend, who's somebody who's gonna be there for you. You know, I mean, that's why the friend's theme song is the way it is, because that's what a friend is, man. I'll be there for you. They'll be there for you, man.

I'll not, not I'll. I will text you. Yeah. Right, that would be different. I'll be there for you. Right. Shallow. I'll send a meme to you.

Versus deep. It's the difference between getting along with people, like oh, we have fun texting each other, the memes. The meme things. Well, or versus being connected. I mean there's a certain level of once you really get in it with somebody like as a true friend, you're gonna have conflict, you're gonna have problems.

I mean to have love like friendly love, not romantic love. Friendly love. To have that friendly love, I mean you're gonna, there's a whole slew of problems and challenges that come along with that that are easily avoidable if you just keep the conversation shallower and text-based and it's an illusion. Well, the reason we do it is because it's super convenient

and easy, it's much easier. Sure. It's on my terms, it's on my time, and I can say what I want to and I don't have to see your immediate reaction. It's so tempting to reduce a relationship to a text-based exchange because it is so convenient and easy and that's why we do it.

You know what, it's not going away and we're not saying that it should go away. And because of the plasticity of our brains, especially the brains of our kids, again, with the research, studies are showing that their brains are adapting to this level of communication and their brains are, parts of their brains

that kind of connect their thoughts to their, Thumbs? Their thumbs and their index fingers and they're basically, the part of their brain that controls that fine motor skills, they are adapting and becoming better at it and they're better at it than we will ever be because their neuroplasticity is way higher.

It's not gonna go away. They're gonna keep doing it and I think that there are positives. To use the analogy that another guy in psychology today, Zach Carter, used, he talked about a cake, and he was like, building a relationship out of text is like having a cake that is icing only. So it may look and feel like a cake,

but when you kinda go into it, there's less substance, and there's no, where's the cake? Whereas, I don't personally and I know you don't like, I don't like cake without icing, right? It adds some moisture to the whole thing. And so I do think that if texting is- I don't like a lot of icing. Okay, but just the right amount, right?

And so, but you wanna have a cake, you wanna have a real foundation for a relationship and that is actually your contact and your real face-to-face conversations and your quality time that you spend with each other. But then the icing on the cake that makes the cake even better and makes the cake what it is, at least in the context of modern society,

is text-based communication. Because I think ultimately what happened the other day. So one-two punch of just constant contact or more frequent contact. Because we've experienced. Keeps it alive, it keeps it vibrant. Yeah. In between those moments of connecting in person.

Because we have actually benefited from this text thread that we have amongst our friends. Oh yeah. And even the situation that we just brought up, we would have never gotten together and talked with everybody. In the timeframe which we did if it wasn't for the accelerated text thread. If it weren't for that text

thread. So to me, I think that there is a healthy balance between the two but first of all, you can't blame anybody who says, I'm not gonna text at all, and I'm just gonna have a complete face-to-face conversation. It's a little Luddite-ish, but uh-oh. I think that ultimately where you could go very wrong

is if you begin to conduct your relationships exclusively on text, and what I think that the kids are doing and this generation, this generation of teenagers, they're beginning and ending romantic relationships via text, they're breaking up via text, they're asking to go out via text, they're saying will you go to the prom with me via text. That is an imbalance.

And I gotta say, listen, I know it's easy, but it's too easy, it's too convenient but it's too easy, it's too convenient, it's too narrow, it's not broad, it's not relying on who you are as a person, it's relying on 7% of who you are, communicating to 7% of who someone else is. It's not a 100% to 100% connection. So you're really only breaking up with 7% of the person?

If you broke up with somebody via text, you're still 93% in a relationship with them. That's a fact, science says it, deal with it. I'll give a meme to you. Yeah, so I hope to help my kids begin to understand that texting, and the phone in general is just a tool that you can abuse it in so many ways, of course,

but when it comes to relationships. Sometimes I throw mine down. You gotta know. To see if the gorilla glass will hold up. You gotta know that it's not, it can't be the center, the cakey center of your friendships. I mean, if you wanna build real friendships, of which you're fortunate to have two

or to five close friends. By the way, I was reading that studies show that you really can't have more than 150 friends at any level. Like at a acquaintance level. Because that was the size of communities of our ancestors. It's a brain thing. Yeah.

It's a brain capacity thing that actually be friends. Once you get above that, once communities and ancient communities got above about 150 people, the group dynamics began to break down and they had to break up and become new groups. And so now what we have are, you have those active friends, which there may be like five close friends,

then like 15 at the next layer, and the layers go out of how connected you actually are to them, to where you get to a point where, well you've got dormant friends who you can reconnect with if you happen to be in the same town but you don't live there anymore, you're visiting. And then you've got all across Facebook,

if you're into that, commemorative friends. Like, oh I went to summer camp with that person and now we're just like, they're just floating out here as a commemorative. Complimenting each other's babies. But I think that ultimately using the tools properly, our kids can be, there's a level of connection that they can have that we didn't experience

and to get back to us that I think there's an opportunity for us. You know, I think maybe we can find ourselves, I'm just gonna throw that out there, having a conversation over text and just as if we were talking to each other. I think for us it's definitely a great thing. What if we did that?

I think it will only enhance things. Because one of the things, I find that if there's an issue that I need to deal with, I often, and this may be a little bit, it may be cowardly. If there's a situation where there's some conflict, I typically like to send an opening written communication as sort of a thesis of like, these are some things that I want to explore but this is not the end

of the conversation, I'm not expecting textual communication back, it's like this is like my opening salvo and now let's talk about it. I think a combination of text communication and face-to-face communication can be a great way to get through conflict and to conduct a relationship. And you know what? Christina actually did that last week. I totally forgotten about it within the context

of this conversation that we're dealing with something and she's got, we're separated. I'm here, she's there and she's talking about, okay this is what I'm going through. These are thoughts that are going through my mind based on a conversation we had last night. I'm not gonna call it an argument, but it was an argument. It was just a conversation.

Spicy one. It was great because, you know, we had to put a pin in things, we slept on it, and then I had to go to work, but then she sent me a text, I sent her a text. I was like, I look forward to continuing our conversation. And she actually, she like wrote out, I was like, I look forward to continuing our conversation. And she actually, she wrote out two, I was like, whoa, two paragraphs.

She had it locked and loaded in the notes app and just copy and pasted it. And it was great. She was just ready for you to text. I mean, it was difficult to get that in the middle of the day, but ultimately, it was better than not getting it because I could, on the drive home,

I reflected on her thoughts. So then we were that much further along when we sat down and had the rest of the conversation. Which still was like okay, two hours of focused let's continue this conversation. This, the work of marriage would've, we wouldn't have gotten nearly that far if it wasn't for that preamble that she said.

And sometimes being able to communicate when you're not together. And we've never, I mean, that's a result of this friend group too, just toss that in there. Because I think we're all learning how we can utilize it. Jesse and I have done exactly what you're talking about and we did it before the friend group. There's been a couple of times where

we do have an argument and we go to sleep and we wake up and we're either the communication climate is a little cold, if you will. And then at some point during the day, someone will instigate a text conversation that is an apology or an explanation. And again, it isn't for the purposes of solving the conflict or reconciling via text,

but sometimes when you're not in each other's presence and you've had time to cool off and you're not just sitting there across from the person that the last time you were with them, you were arguing with them, you get this text and you can process it in your own world, in the privacy of your own thoughts, and I think it does set up, it's an opening volley

that gives you the opportunity to then go and take the conflict and address it face to face. I do think that it's very helpful, very purposeful. Yeah, and that's deep work. I mean, that's, like I said, that is the work of marriage or of a relationship and can obviously be applied to friendships. But I think for us, let's start simple.

Let's just start with a few memes. Memes, just meme time. I think we can search in that thing and find ourselves. Yeah, I've done it. You want me to send you GIFs of you and you send me GIFs of me? No, I want you to be you and me be me. Let's communicate to each other.

But only GIFs. Oh man, we are really, we're completing the loop of douchey. Yeah, the douche loop. The douche loop. The douche loop. Rounding the turn on the douche loop. Little Bigfoot. Currently in my hot tub, sending gifs of myself

to my friend Rhett. From one douche to another. In his hot tub. Now, one thing I will say that we didn't talk about, we hinted at it a little bit earlier when we were talking about the way the rest of the world communicates. I don't know what the research indicates on video chats.

Mm-hmm. I have noticed, now my kids don't do this, but I have seen the teens talking to each other. Lincoln uses house party. Video chat is very common. And I don't know, again, I don't know the data, I don't know how many people are doing it.

It's like doing his homework, he's got his phone propped up on his desk. Yeah, but again, I don't know what the percentages are but at that point you are getting body language and you are getting voice tone and emphasis. You're getting a very large percentage. You're just not getting smell and breath. Which might be great, you know, because if somebody's got halitosis,

that kind of becomes 100% of what you're thinking about. Yeah. So there's a way to take that out of the equation. So anyway, maybe that's one of the great things about video chat, and I'm assuming at some point, they keep talking about it, and they keep saying it's gonna happen, holograms, man. But holograms will be able to perfectly capture

what you're trying to communicate. Not perfectly, I'm sure. Well, you know, almost perfectly. There'll be glitches. Here's what I'll say. Be glitches and like a knot will be removed and then the whole meaning of what you're saying will change because you left out the negative.

Right, that could happen. But 30 years from now, I think people will be breaking up with holograms and that will count. I think that'll be an official breakup if you break up via hologram. I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but I'm having second thoughts about this me and you

like texting it up as friends. Let's back off of memes because that was just me being stupid. But I don't know man, I think, like if there's a third person we can do it, like when Mike from back in North Carolina, Texas, that he went in, he took a dump in the Trader Joe's and then he comes out, he's washing his hands

and then a woman walks in and it was, he was in Trader Jan's bathroom. Right. And we laughed that up and we each said a little funny thing in response. You wanna get Mike in on a text thread just so we don't feel weird about memeing each other? I think we'll just turn him into a third douche

is honestly what I think will happen. I think douche spreads. I think it's contagious. I think douch just turn him into a third douche is honestly what I think will happen. I think douche spreads. I think it's contagious. I think douchery is contagious. See, we can't call it that. I mean, that undermines everything we're saying. Can we put that on a T-shirt? Can we sell that?

Douchery is contagious? We'll sell it on the dark web then. Douche loop. I like douche loop better. Yeah, we'll put that in the dark. Mythical.store slash dark web? Nah, I don't think that's how you get to the dark web. But we can't characterize us having

a friendly text exchange as being douchey. It's only douchey when we're talking about ourselves in like a self-absorbed way. I mean, but just having a talk, having a text. But you did just. When we just talk, we're not being douches. But you did just realize like three weeks ago that your phone was waterproof,

so you could be texting from the hot tub. I'm just saying. I mean, you could actually, sometimes just for kicks, I've got my Bluetooth music going and I just put my phone under the surface of the hot tub just so the music goes away and then I bring it back up just to experience technology. Once you told me that my phone was waterproof.

Link's had two generations of iPhone that were waterproof and didn't know it until we were in Fiji, speaking of douchebags. We were snorting. This of douchebags. We were snorkeling. This is the most self-aware podcast. We were snorkeling in Fiji and I had my phone out. No, it was when I was videoing you guys, my kids and your kids and you on the banana boat

being pulled behind the thing. And you were like, hey, phone's waterproof? I was like, yeah, so was yours, man. We got the same phone. And you dunked it in the water. It was mind blowing. And I couldn't believe it. So then, yeah, actually last week,

my family was all outside in the hot tub. And I wasn't outside and I came outside and I had my phone in my hand and I jumped in my, I jumped in, dove in the pool and then I swam up to where they were and I pulled up my phone and acted like I was talking on it because I thought that would be cool. Yeah, yeah, it would've been cool in like 2015.

And then Lily was like, dad, you just dove in with your glasses on, your glasses are at the bottom of the pool. Oh, dad move. Wow, dad, I had to swim down there and retrieve my glasses. And I know you're scared of going to the bottom of the pool, so how was that?

Oh man, who knew that our friendship could go to another level. Panicking. Because we're gonna text each other. I am so excited for us, Rhett. Yeah, so I don't know what the moral of the story is. I guess it's some combination of texting and face-to-face communication is the basis

of true friendship and romantic relationships. Don't text too much. Don't. Text too little either. Text too little. Don't text too much. Don't. Text too little either. Text too little. Don't do that. You want to be in the Goldilocks region when it comes to texting and face-to-face contact. So let us know what you think.

Join the conversation. Use hashtag Ear Biscuits, wherever hashtags are used, and we'll continue the conversation. I enjoy that. What do you say, Jade? Say hello. Let me text you something.

I wish I could make her bark. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That was a little. She just licked the microphone. Did you hear that? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's my voice, not hers. Okay, bye.