Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - 192: What Makes Someone Creepy? | Ear Biscuits Ep. 192

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

Is the it buggy eyes, slightly ajar mouth, or something that you can't quite put a finger on? R&L explore what gives them the inexplicable feeling that someone is creepy, ponder who would win in a dad triathlon, and debate whether they would try to escape this simulation of a life in this episode of Ear Biscuits! Sponsored by: Dunkin’ Donuts: Power up your day with the Dunkin’ Power Breakfast Sandwich and Egg White Dunkin’ Bowl. They’re filled with protein and delicious, better-for-you ingredients!Stitch Fix: Visit StitchFix.com/EAR and you’ll get an extra 25% off when you keep all 5 items in your box!  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Link. And I'm Rhett. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we are exploring the question, what makes someone creepy? Ooh. And other questions that we receive from you,

Mythical Beasts. Yeah, there's lots of thought-provoking questions. I'm trying, I'm conjuring thoughts. Wasn't easy. Hmm. I'm having trouble conjuring thoughts at this moment. Just fair warning. Don't say conjuring because it makes me think

of the movie Conjuring and I just was talking about it with someone last night and I don't like to think about it. Then why were you talking to somebody about it? I'd love to talk about it. You do like it. I just don't like to think about it. Then why were you talking to somebody about it? I love to talk about it. You do like it. I just don't like to think about it. Okay. So we're gonna get into the world of Creepy

and some other things, including if we had like a triathlon of dad sports, what would they be and who would win? I got some thoughts on that. Other stuff too. But first I wanted to check in with you. I've noticed something that's happened a couple times I've been visiting your home.

Oh yeah? You have nonchalantly said, okay Google, dim the lights in the living room. Or something along those lines. And they've actually dimmed. Okay Google, dim the lights in the living room. Or something along those lines. And they've actually dimmed. Or they've, you know, you've spoken to your home. And I know this is not, this is not a new thing. I have an intimate relationship with my home.

And I am in the process of going full bore. Well yeah, all morning I was looking over at of going full bore. Well yeah, all morning I was looking over at you at your desk, I mean just kinda seeing what you were working on. It seems like you were deep. It wasn't all morning. You were deep into figuring out like how to talk to your house.

Yeah. I think you even Googled, I looked over at one point and you were like, how can I be as cool as Link? Yeah, it's interesting when you Google that directly. Have you done that, what pops up? A wiki how? Which I wrote. So you wanna talk to your lights too.

Yeah. I talk to my lights. Well interesting thing is so I was talking to Daniel, I was talking to him about, you know, I kind of been looking like what smart, you gotta get the smart bulbs, like you gotta get the bulbs that can be spoken to or basically they register with your,

well you can do the bulbs, you can do the things that you plug in, but you also have to do the switches. And the reason I wanted to do the bulbs themselves and not just the, I know what you got is like a converter that you plug into and then it can control on and off. Yeah, you plug it into the wall, then you plug the lamp into the thing,

which I incidentally, I got a couple of those from a GMM episode. I think it's where we were remote controlling Christmas lights or something, and I was like, hey, when we're done with that, I wanna take that home. And I hooked it up and then I just ended up getting more of them. And I did get one that was hardwired

to my front porch lights so that I could speak to my home. Did you have an electrician do that or you did that? Yeah, I didn't know, I don't do electrical. Okay. I can't use a knife, I can't use fire, I can't use electrics. Yeah, because I'm gonna have to get, because I want it, again, I want to be able to control

the front lights, the lights, right now they're on a timer, but I'd like to be able to control the lights that are on the house, the lights up the driveway, and then all lights. But you also gotta get anything that's like an overhead light that's like, we have recessed lighting in most rooms, and it's like, that's on a switch,

so now you gotta get the switch that can be controlled. You wanna talk to every single light in your house? All lights. That's too much. Well, I'll be the judge of that once I can talk to everything. You're going overboard. You're going overboard. Well, I'll be the judge of that once I can talk to everything. You're going overboard. Well, you know why I'm going overboard? Because when I was talking to Daniel.

To be like me. No, because no, see, you gave me an idea of what it could be like to be cool. Okay. But you actually aren't. Okay. You're not as cool as I'm gonna be when I can literally speak to every light source

in my entire house. And let me tell you what, here's what Daniel told me about. He said, I've got a friend who did this to their house and the reason you need the smart bulbs and not just the little converter is because these bulbs can be programmed to change color and flash and do all kinds of things based on voice commands

and this guy has created a custom program for his different friends. And so he's like, hey Google, Sandra's here and all of a sudden it'll like flash red and it'll play like, dun dun dun. Like Google Home will like access a track. Connects to its Spotify playlist. So you think you're cool now,

you wait till you come to my house and I say, okay Google, Link's here. And just see how cool you feel then. Well if you get the right camera, your house will know that I'm there. I'm also doing that. And then you don't even have to say, okay Google, links here, which is an odd thing to say.

Oh, do you think you can program an intelligent camera to recognize your face and then play a specific track? I'm sure you can. No. No, yeah, because. There's a missing connection. No there's not because these things have the. You're gonna basically rewire your entire house

so that when Sandra comes over it can flash red? Yeah, exactly. It's nutty, man. It's not, I mean that's novel. Well I. But you'll never do it. You know, interestingly, I'm actually surprised because, you know the reason I'm actually surprised because, you know the reason I'm compelled to do every single light is because it just seems clean.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but. Just having a couple of lights you can control. The lights. Oh, I gotta get up and touch the light switch for that one, Sandra. The lights that I control are the ones that I never walk past the switch.

Or. I don't wanna walk at all. I wanna roll around like a slug. Or the ones that I want to be on a timer. And just speak to my house. I mean, I'm just saying it's not gonna be worth it. I mean, you wanna be in bed and say, okay Google, turn off all the lights. Well, I haven't gotten there,

but that's another great idea. See, that would be useful. But not with Sandra. I have my different lights that turn on. All the lights, there's certain lights that I want to turn on with the sunset that happens automatically. And then they turn off at different times. Well you can also set routines.

The nook light turns off at like nine. The chair light, I got a nook light, a chair light, a couch light, a front light, and a back light. And that's all the lights I got. Well I'm gonna have 47. All the other ones I use a switch. Yeah, so archaic, you have to touch it? For every light, gross.

For every light you have to name it. You're gonna have to name 47 lights, and then you're gonna have to remember those names. And I'm gonna do cool names like Battleship, like light B12. Yeah, you're gonna have to remember those names. And I'm gonna do cool names like Battleship, like light B12. Yeah, you're gonna have to come up with a system. And I'm gonna be the only one who understands it. Right, and then you'll be.

You gotta talk to dad if you wanna light it. You'll be included with everyone who never uses it. Okay dad, turn on light B12 and I'll be like, okay Google, turn on light B12. I mean. No, they won't say B12, they'll say porch light and I'll be like, okay Google, turn on light B12. I mean. Well no, they won't say B12, they'll say porch light and I'll say C17. I'm just telling you, man, you'll have to,

see, I'm exposing it, I'm looking out for you. You don't, I mean, I'm basically at my limit of the number of light, like I can't remember now. It's like. You just told me all of them in the span of a minute. Okay, but sometimes I'm like, okay Google, turn on the light, and it's like, I'm sorry, I haven't learned that yet.

It's like, it's very polite. Well, that's just like, takes the onus on her. That's user error. You know another thing that I. It's tough to keep them straight, man. You're gonna have problems. Here's the thing, you can get your lights to be tied into your intelligent cameras

and so that if you happen to be out of town and someone comes to your front door, if the intelligent doorbell or the camera senses someone at the door, it can turn, it could be a program between the hours of blank and blank if you see motion outside, turn on this light and so it makes it seem like somebody's turning on their bedroom light or turning on another light.

I mean, this is so smart. They also, they're on camera and you can see them. And that keeps Sandra away. Yeah, it's Sandra is what she prefers. Sandra. She's insulted when you call her Sandra. Sandra. I'm gonna have a whole thing for you

when you come over, man. And then you'll be like, oh, I gotta do this. I mean, it's a novel idea. I just. It's the future, man. Everyone's gonna be talking to their house. And you're gonna be like, I remember in 2019, Rhett started talking to his house in every which way.

In too many ways. You can talk to it in too many ways. Now I'm a fan of like throwing something to the television to start watching, like watch a YouTube clip or just start playing music and playing music in certain zones in my house. Like I do that every single day. And I'm like, I want this to play everywhere.

We got a party. But Google. I want this to play just downstairs because Christy's upstairs taking a nap. That's a great system. Or I want this to play just downstairs because Christy's upstairs taking a nap. That's a great system. Or I want this to play only upstairs. In my bathroom and my bedroom. Chromecast audio.

I bought a whole stash of those before they off the market. But what? I don't know why they did that. But what do you do now? I mean, what do I do? There's still some floating out there you can buy if you wanna connect to your.

There's gotta be a new solution. Yeah, you could do Sonos, not a sponsor. No, but I'm gonna do the outdoor speakers too. They gotta be hardwired to like a stereo head of some kind. Yeah, go ahead and buy a couple of Chromecast Audios right now. Seriously, they're still floating around. Just buy a couple for like 25 bucks.

Okay. Just to have the option. Because Google Chromecast, not audio, doesn't work with that system, it's a separate thing. Or because it doesn't have a 3.5 jack. I don't know, it doesn't, but I don't know if that's the reason why. But that's what audio has, right?

Listen, if this were a tech podcast, people would be calling in and we'd be telling them all types of stuff. No, well this is my secret way of letting you know I'd like to make Ear Biscuits a tech podcast and two guys who don't really know anything about tech are gonna say things like 3.5 Jack. Like the click and clack of welcoming Sandra to your house. Remember click and clack?

Yeah. You call in and they would tell you about automobile stuff. One of them died. That's Ben and Jerry. No, you're talking about Click and Clack, NPR. They had the auto repair show and they were like wizards of cars. Oh yeah, I didn't know one of them passed away.

Yeah. I also didn't know that they invented ice creams. Which I'm glad they did. Okay, so we're not gonna just talk about tech. I mean, that is what the podcast is about now, but we promised you we'd answer questions, so next week's all about tech. And every week after.

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Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. Link, you want wanna answer some questions? Yeah, let's get into this, man. This is gonna be fun. You wanna start with the creepy? Let's start with the creepy. I mean, we teased with it, and then what if we don't get to it?

Yeah, that's a good point. This is a question from a while back, and then we never got to it. Now we think it's the best question. Well a lot of people thumbsed it up on Facebook so they really wanted to hear the answer to it. Okay. Angeline Batterman, sometimes I meet someone and without even speaking to them

or knowing anything about them, I get a vibe of this person is creepy or this person is trustworthy. And it almost always pans out to be true. Does this happen to other people? And if so, what the heck are we picking up on? Well, I think that it's, from an evolutionary standpoint,

it's definitely advantageous to develop the gene level skill of a sixth sense of knowing if someone's gonna kill you or maim you or otherwise violate you. So it makes sense in theory that we would have this inexplicable sense of creepiness because I am saying that creepy is correlated to getting maimed or otherwise violated.

And then personally, I think I experienced this. I think I do have a sense. Like if you started showing me, if you just went through a lineup of people and I could make split second decisions people and I could make split second decisions of creepy or like hot or both. Creepy or hot? That's the decision I made.

It was creepy or trustworthy. Oh. Where do we go? How did we get to hot? Oh sorry. Hot is usually. I got a little distracted. Hot is not sort of a sixth sense thing.

Usually it's sort of like, oh I look at them and find them attractive. In the same way that I feel like I can look at someone and be like, oh, given my personal taste, this person is attractive, or whatever, but I think in the same instant, I could determine creepiness, and I can do it to the same person at the same time.

Well let's. And I can say that person is hot, but creepy. Let's explore what we think. That person's hot because they're creepy. Let's explore what we think. That person is hot because they're creepy. We'll explore what makes someone creepy or what you think and I think. Don't you feel the same? Oh yeah, but I don't remember what this was in a book

or an article or something. But. An instant message. Someone was advising people on this exact thing, One was advising people on this exact thing, which is when you have this sense that you can't explain that someone is creepy, you should always act on it. And you should trust your instincts. And you should always act on it without apology.

So trust you, I mean, regardless of who you are, trust your instincts and don't feel like you need to apologize, that's a good point. And you shouldn't feel like you are, you know, don't judge yourself in that moment where you're like, oh, is there something in me that's bad that I'm making a judgment about this person? It's just like, well, I don't know,

but your safety is important. And I'm not saying you gotta do something. Just getting yourself out of that situation, trust your instincts and more often than not, they're right. But what is it that people are picking up on? Well, the first thing I think about are the eyes. And then the second thing I think about is the mouth. So I think about that area.

Creepiness is not necessarily what the eyes look like but if you got like, if there's a stare happening and it's like, how would you describe this? Like what about, like I'm looking at you now, I'm just looking at you, right? But, and now watch the difference. What's happening because I'm trying to put a name to that as what to me is creepy.

So I'm just looking at you. That's pretty explicit though. That's a facial, that's an aggressive facial expression. Okay but. I'm just talking about somebody isn't doing anything aggressive. For the listeners, can you just, I think this is my answer. You flared your nostrils and raised your eyebrows.

No I didn't. Don't look at my nostrils. I'm covering my nostrils and I'm covering my eyebrows. Am I covering my eyebrows? Yeah. I'm just looking at you and now I'm doing that. Well, you could be surprised. You just sort of raised your eyes.

You opened your eyes more. I bugged my eyes a little bit. I'm not talking about picking up on facial expressions. I am. If you do, my answer is if you bug your. If someone bugs their eyes out at you, get out. If you bug, if your eyes, buggy eyes compared, not compared, but paired with a slightly open mouth,

that's dead on creepy. Okay, well I don't disagree with that, but that just feels more obvious. Whereas I'm talking about like you've got- Well then I'm starting obvious. So think about this, you've got Ted Bundy, right? Did you watch the Ted Bundy tapes? No, and I don't know why anyone did.

I watched a little bit of it. Oh, I'm gonna watch hours and hours dedicated to- I didn't watch hours and hours. Demented serial killer. I watched a little bit of it. Well, a lot of people-. Well, a lot of people. Love it, a lot of people love it. Hey, I'm not afraid to go against the grain.

I don't get it, man. And the thing that made him such an unusual serial killer is he was like a handsome, charming guy. But I bet, I haven't seen it, but I bet he was doing that with his eyes. It has nothing to do with the expressions that he was making. Of course it does.

So what are you, okay, keep going. I mean, essentially what you're saying is that if I were to go into a room and somebody were to go, that would, and I just made a very angry gorilla face. I didn't do that. I just went a little like. Of course, yeah, but you did a piece of an expression. But what if somebody is actually coming in

and they're doing charming things? I believe that you probably could still pick up on something creepy. If Ted Bundy has the capacity to kill you, but yet he also has the capacity to be charming and to make prolonged eye contact or whatever. Still think there's probably some, something, and again, I do think that it's something visual,

aural, as in audio-ish. That's what I was saying. That you're picking up on, but I don't think, I don't think it's an expression. I think it's things more subtle like posture or changes in tone of voice. I'm saying that. Well okay, so what posture?

I don't know. I'm saying that I don't know what it is. I think it's super subtle, but I don't think it's like, this guy, every time I look at him, he bugs his eyes out at me. All right, but okay, it's just like a little bit of a stare, mouth breathing. I think inexplicable smiling where you see teeth.

Well, I'm okay then. Can't see my teeth. Where are you coming up with these criteria? I'm just picturing creepy people and I'm describing then. Can't see my teeth. Where are you coming up with these criteria? I'm just picturing creepy people and I'm describing them to you. It's not rocket science. I mean everything I've said is creepy, right? I mean if they're staring and scratching.

You're talking about creepy behavior though. I'm saying that like somebody walks in and they've been instructed to follow a protocol of behavior that is like you're gonna walk into this room and you're going to stand there and you're going to remain stone faced. Two people do this, you think one is trustworthy and one is creepy

and it isn't because someone made a face, it's because someone has a face. I think it's. You don't understand what I'm saying? Mm, well. Something about their face, the structure. Okay, I'll go. The distance of the eyes.

If the percentage of body fat contained on the face is below 7%. You think some people have 7% of their body fat on their face? No, that's not what I'm saying. Maybe like a large-headed baby. I'm saying the exact opposite, man. If your percent body fat is 7% in the facial area.

Or less. If you're like gaunt. Just in the face. Yeah, I think it's like, I mean like, I was walking down the street one time and I saw, shoot, what's his name, Walter Scoggins, isn't that his name? The guy from, co-star with Danny McBride

in Vice Principals? Goggans. Walter Goggins. Isn't it Goggins? Great actor, hilarious guy. He plays the harpsichordist in that new HBO show that you showed me. I'm a huge fan of the guy.

But he's got a creepy vibe. I mean he's got a creepy facial structure. And actually that's what makes him so castable. He's got deep set eyes, like me, but I ain't creepy because I got big fat cheeks. Oh yeah, you're way over 7%. Right, I got, I mean. You might have 7% of your body fat.

I was, Lincoln and I were like sitting in the hot tub and of course I don't wear my glasses in the hot tub and like I come up out of the water and like my hair slicked back and Lincoln's sitting next to me like we're both on a jet so like at point blank range. And I come up and he's staring at me like creepy and I'm like what?

And he's like your face is shaped like a upside down diamond. What? He's like, you got your cheeks, he's like, you look so different without glasses, and I was like, well, my hair slicked back, I was like, I look like granddaddy, don't I, he was like, your face is like a, well, he didn't say upside, he just said a diamond,

it's like straight across at the top, comes out a little bit, comes out a big piece here at the points of my cheeks and then boop, boop. How's the diamond shape? I mean like your face upside down. Apparently. I got a diamond face. It's not creepy.

No, you're not creepy. But more, like if you can see more of the skeletal structure of the face, then you start to get creepy. And if you're scratching something, then you're off the charts. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're looking for something else, I sense. I don't know what it is, but I'm saying that

there are these intangible things that you are picking up on, and it's not your conscious mind picking up on it. And that's why you shouldn't, again, that's why you shouldn't judge yourself, because you're picking up on something that, again, that you said is coming from a reptilian part of your brain that's not some conscious process.

It's just this instinct and you should trust it. But it could be any, I could list a whole bunch of other things like unkempt, wiry eyebrows or if there's like four or five. That are just like. Four or five eyebrows? Boing, oing, oing, oing, oing. Yeah, if you got more than two eyebrows, that's definitely creepy.

You mean eyebrow hairs, okay. Like if you're inexplicably smiling and you don't see teeth, but you're doing something with your tongue, like you're licking your lips with your tongue, that's creepy. I think the problem actually is trustworthiness. Like I'm all over creepy, but thinking somebody's trustworthy, that's creepy. I think the problem actually is trustworthiness. Like I'm all over creepy,

but thinking somebody's trustworthy, that's dangerous. Like you're giving somebody the benefit of the doubt. I think you gotta be really careful with that. Like yeah, they might have a chubby face, chubby cheeks like me, but they might look trustworthy, but don't trust that. And there is, Like a Ted Bundy.

There is a tendency to fall into prejudice here, right? Because people may be like, well, I don't trust this person. Absolutely. Because of the way that I judge where they come from. And that's obviously bad. And I'm not suggesting you do that because that, you know because you get into some,

I'm kind of talking about when you're in that, when you're in a vulnerable place and you get a vibe, even if you get a vibe of trustworthiness, hey, you get a vibe of trustworthiness, go into business with a person. No. Trust your instincts. Start a business right on the spot. No.

Partnership. I'm disturbed that you were not able to say one thing that you think makes people, you're like creepy blind. No, no, because my theory is that what makes somebody creepy is not something that I can articulate, is something that happens in the reptilian part of my brain and the reptilian part of my brain and the reptilian part of my brain cannot speak, cannot form words,

can't even really form thoughts in the same way. It just acts on instinct, cause and effect and I'm saying that they're, and I'm sure that what they've done is they've done some study, if we were not lazy, if I didn't wanna roll around like a slug and turn my lights on with my voice, then I'd probably Google what makes somebody creepy

and there would be an answer. But you know what, that's what the internet's for. That's not what Ear Biscuits is for. I think there was a Vsauce video on what makes something creepy. Oh there you go, Vsauce has already done it. Why were you sitting here talking about it? But he didn't say why people look creepy.

That'd be a stupid video to make because you'd draw a lot of, well I think you're describing me. Link us to the. And leave that to me on our podcast. I'm sorry if you have like a skeletal face or that you lick your lips. I mean I'm just saying to me you're acting creepy

and you need to stop it. Well link us to an actual scientific article, hashtag Ear Biscuits, we'll read it. Others will too. Here's another question from Megan Martin. What is an experience you had as a kid that you wish your kids could have but can't and then the opposite, what is an experience your kids have

that you wish you were able to have as kids? Okay, do you know what you wish our kids could experience that they can't but we did? Well, I think about this quite often and we've touched on this in general before but just the amount of freedom, whoa, almost threw that off the table. The amount of freedom that we had growing up

which I think was partially regional and partially generational. Yeah. Being able to go off and do whatever we want to and that is not something that our kids even have the capacity to do at this point because they've got, I can track their location on their phone.

Summertime bike excursions. But this specific thing that I was thinking about was something we talked about recently that we did not, that me and you talked about that we've never talked about publicly, was we were trying to remember when we were our son's ages, so like maybe even younger than Locke, so like probably 14, 14, 15, it was like

maybe the summer between eighth and ninth grade, which incidentally is the setting for our upcoming novel. The Lost Causes of Bleak Creek. Pre-order it now, bleakcreek.com. It takes place in the summer of 1992. But anyway, we had a friend, Ben, who we talked about him before, Ben Greenwood, the book of mythicality was dedicated to Ben. He was an embodiment of mythicality, if there ever was one.

Passed away from cancer years ago. He was this incredibly adventurous guy who got us into so many things, and somehow he talked to his parents, and then we talked to our parents into letting us travel. They drove us in the Greenwoods Subaru from Buies Creek to Buckhorn Dam, which was basically the beginning of the Cape Fear River.

The Cape Fear River's headwaters are a little bit higher than that, but this is like, there's a dam there and you'd have to go over the dam. And we got into a canoe, the three of us. Ben's canoe or Ben's dad, I don't know whose canoe it was. It was Ben's canoe, an old town canoe, green, that was definitely not a white water canoe,

it was like a pond canoe. But we took this canoe, there's only two seats in a canoe and then there's a crossbar and then we would take turns who sat on the crossbar. And we, no supervision, no phone, we just canoed all the way down the Cape Fear River all the way back to our homes. That is a long freaking way.

I mean it probably, I mean it was at least a six hour journey. Yes. And like we. On the river. There was no like. Through multiple rapids. I'm gonna check in with you guys when you get to,

this like Locke and Lincoln and a friend getting into a boat, driving them like an hour and a half away and then just having them, hopefully you make it. Well we, you know we worked up to it. I mean, I think the reason they had the canoe was because he could take it to like the lake on the golf course.

We did it all the time, yeah. And then it's like, well, on the far side of the golf course is the Cape Fear River, so we could take it there. We'd cross the river in the canoe, yeah. Yeah, or just swim or whatever there. And then we would take it from there down to Irwin. But then at some point you're like,

let's start at the furthermost point and it's right below that dam, like the water is like water falling down over that. But yeah, it's just crazy to think, I just can't imagine doing that with, entrusting Locke and Lincoln with that. Well, and I just always think, what does it mean? I actually think that my kids are,

they're a lot like me, they're super, they're naturally independent and like, would do a lot of things without any, you know, pushback. But there are times when I'm like, no doubt our tendency to do things like get into a boat, because I'm not saying it wasn't, it still wasn't normal. Our other friends weren't doing it.

I mean, there were some people who were doing it and it was sort of accepted. And we wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for Ben initiating it. Right, we needed somebody to let us know that it could be done. But I have to think that our decision to do a lot of things

like that and having it be awesome and then having it turn out well is one of the reasons that we've kind of lived a life of what some people interpret as risky behaviors, at least in terms of like taking chances on things and trying new things. But sometimes I worry, okay, our kids don't have that, they don't exercise that level of independence and so is that gonna come back to haunt them? Are they just gonna happen in a different way?

Yeah, I think a sense of adventure for them is let's go to a rock climbing wall. Or like when I was on this one stretch of mountain biking with Lincoln, I did realize that if he fell off the bike to the left, he would fall down, he would careen down a cliff. Right. I was like, oh, this is cool.

I bet he's scared right now. I didn't ask him later, because I realized we were going down the wrong path and we had to turn around and I was very apologetic that we had to push our bikes back was just very apologetic that we had to push our bikes back up this really steep hill. Push huh? Oh but yeah I had to look on my phone

in order to figure it all out. We had none of that. Of course when you're on a river, it's easy to not get lost because there's only one direction. Right. There's only one river. But you know the thing about Ben, he said he embodied mythicality.

It's a credit to his parents that they were, I can't remember what we told our parents. Oh, we're going out with Ben on the. You know, it's like, I don't know how much they really understood, but it was very clear that Ben's parents knew what was going on because they're driving us there, dropping us off, there's no question.

My parents definitely did not know the extent. They didn't appreciate. It wasn't that level of communication, it was like I want you to tell me where you're going, I want you to, I wanna know specifically, I wanna see you on a map, I wanna know when you're gonna get there. They were just like oh, the Greenwoods got it, good.

Right, but to their credit, when I think about it, I just wonder if, I don't know, maybe this is a silly question, but because Ben's life was so short and he was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome I think in seventh grade, so he no longer could even come to public school with us, but like, and then he was so limited that like

whenever he had the energy to do things and we were doing things with him, it was like he had a little bit more freedom to experience. I mean he experienced so much of life especially given the physical limitations that from which he suffered. I think it's, I don't know, I take some comfort in that and I feel honored that we were along for the ride,

literally, a lot of times in his boat. But you know, maybe there was some sort of sense of, you know, life is short, go for it. You know, I think that maybe his parents had a sense of that. Life is short, go for it. I think that maybe his parents had a sense of that. That kind of led to, yeah, we'll drop you off here and we trust you to be safe. He had a good head on his shoulders and he was like,

he was smart about all that type of stuff. And we trusted him with our lives. Well, the only thing I'll say that makes me think that I don't, I mean, maybe they acted that way without even realizing it, but you know, he was that way from as far back as I can remember when I met him in third grade. And then he had also, he told stories of Oklahoma,

which is where he moved from. You know, all the stuff that, when third grade, you're not that old, right? You haven't lived a whole lot of life, but he had already done so many cool things. And so I think they were just very, they trusted him and he was super responsible. And we just did, you know, again, it was a different time.

Not that we didn't almost die on the river many times, but that's once we got our kayaks. You need that. And that's the thing, it's so difficult to then try to map that onto our kids' lives because I don't, I think about, I mean, you got Lily driving right now, right, she's starting to, she's learning to drive.

And you know, when we were 16? Oh no, I guess we were 17 at the time. Me and you just got into a car and drove to Indiana. From North Carolina. Well we were going to a wedding. Yeah but I mean. I mean you were meeting your parents there. It's just a road right?

But yeah that's kinda, that's a long ways for 17 year old. Especially back then when it was like literally it was a map, we had a map. Like a paper map. Didn't we, I thought we followed, we didn't follow your parents? No. Cause that wouldn't be as fun.

I think we talked them into not following them. Yeah. Cause they drove too. So what did, you know, we'll meet you there. No, cause when we got, when we, we got to town and we met my granddad, remember that? Yeah, that's right. He was driving along the road.

Anyway, but the opposite of the question is, so I don't know what the answer is. I mean, there's lots of things that I'd like my kids to be able to experience, but I'm also glad that they don't, they're not doing anything as risky as we did. So it's really tough to answer. But what do they get to do that we kind of wish that we got to do?

Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is like, I mean, our kids come to the studio and they're in videos and stuff. I mean, I think we will be eating it up. That's true. You know, if we had access, you know, I mean, we're still, that's why we're so, you know, we're living our childhood dreams

that we couldn't even articulate. So it's like, man, if, I mean, your dad worked at the law school and they just happened to have this setup with two VCRs and you thought, well, that was our opportunity to edit video for the first time,, that was our opportunity to edit video for the first time. But that was like heaven. It's like, I'm going in, I got dad's key

and I'm going into the two VCR room. I mean, it's like, think about if it wasn't two VCRs, but it was this, like, hey, I can be on my dad's show or something, you know? It's like, and our, you know, we filmed, we're filming some stuff, we film stuff with Shando all the time, like getting them into it because they're so stinking cute

and the way that they play off of each other is hilarious because they're so different. Well, and we did a similar thing with Locke and Lincoln back, was it the Mythical show? Yeah, the Mythical show. They came in and did a segment. Yeah Locke and Lincoln back, was it the Mythical show? Yeah, the Mythical show. They came in and did a segment. Yeah, it was like they. When they were cute.

But they don't. But they don't wanna be a part of it. It's not like they're living a dream, it's just like they get a kick out of it. I mean Lily actually said, you know what, I'd like to be in a video again. She still thinks it's kinda. Oh yeah, she did some stuff last year.

Yeah. She's gonna come in next week and watch us film some stuff. She's excited about it. So I'm glad that they do feel that way, but our minds would have been blown, man, if it was like, I don't know, maybe we wouldn't have cared. If we would have grown up,

if our dads worked at the public access television studio or something. I don't know what the equivalent, that's kind of what the equivalent would have been. The first thing that came to my mind was the stuff that our kids get to do. And this is, you know is partly because of our jobs and partly because of where we live but also this is a much more travel oriented generation.

It's much more, people fly a lot more, people go a lot further but just like I think about the vacations that we've been on with our family, our kids have been to Australia, our kids have been to Europe, our kids have been to Europe, and Locke's been to Africa, you're gonna be in. Lily went to China. She went to China. Then you're gonna. With a friend of hers.

And you're gonna be in that part of the country, part of the world again, you know. And our kids get to eat all this amazing food when amazing food for me was boshonis. Yeah, you're talking about amazing food in LA. Yeah, well and around the world too. And I don't know, I feel. Yeah, it would have been nice to be spoiled

like our kids are. That's basically what you're saying. I'm of two minds about this though because I kind of think that the fact that really up until I graduated college, Shoney's was still, that was as good as it got for me. You know what I'm saying? I think that I'm able to,

I think you adjust pretty quickly, but I think I'm able to kind of appreciate that. We didn't go, we traveled a little bit, but we would like go to Georgia, you know. Remember that time that my mom took me and you to Carowinds? Yeah, I'll never forget it because those kinds of things were so, they were anomalies in our experience and it was just going to an amusement park near Charlotte.

Pretty awesome. Yeah. Would've blown our minds. You wanna go to Carowinds, is that what you're asking? Would've blown our minds to go to Six Flags. That wouldn't have been that much different. So I don't know, in one sense, I think what I'm saying is there's things that come to mind that I would've liked to do and I'd like them to do,

but at the same time, I'm kinda glad that I had the life I had and they have the life they have. Yeah, don't have the power to change it, so let's just reconcile it. Yeah, just accept it. Jonathan Garlinghouse, if you guys were to face each other in a quote, dad sports triathlon, then in parentheses, you put darts, pool, bowling.

Is this a thing or did he make that up? Is a dad sports triathlon a thing and it consists of darts, pool, and bowling? His question is, what strengths would you bring to it and who would win overall? Well, I mean, I am not, I'm trying as hard as I can when I throw darts on the show. Yeah.

I mean, I'm just, I just got no chance, man. And we're so close to that board and I'm horrible at it. But I don't think your weakness is the targeting. It kinda is. I think your weakness is the guessing. Are you historically that far from your guesses? Yeah I mean if you were to like, if you were to superimpose an actual dart board

and the amount of fidelity there, I'm telling you right now. Well somebody should do that. I would be horrible at it. But we have, well. So you would beat me at darts. Well but we've done pool and bowling, well okay, if we're judging this by performance

on Good Mythical Morning, I actually think historically you would win. We played pool one time and you were better at it than me. I don't think I'm that bad of a pool player, but you beat me on that day. And then bowling when we did the flame bowling. I was better. At least in the edit, you got more of the strikes.

No, if we're bowling one game of bowling, is it called a round? I don't know what it's, a set? I don't know what it's called. A frame. I would, I think I'd beat you, but if we went two, my fingers give out. But here's the thing though,

is that if you isolate this down to pure competition and entertainment value, like it's not being filmed and it's just simply, like I kinda go into a very specific mode in those scenarios. Yeah, which sends me into another mode. So your mode is- I get very competitive. I have to win. I would be tough to beat if it was just about winning. Yeah, and it sends me into another mode. So your mode is- I get very competitive. I have to win. I would be tough to beat if it was just about winning.

Yeah and it sends me into my mode which is, why am I doing this again? I'm searching for a motivation. Yeah I'm just like, I really don't, like even in winning I'm like looking around like for some sort of like an instruction manual. Like I don't, yeah, I just don't really. Well, the winning is the reward.

I don't really care that much. The winning, that's it. I do think that I. It's not the champagne that comes after this. I might could really work up some gumption and I think I could beat you at bowling. I think that would be a good competition. I also think. It'd definitely be close.

I think like frisbee golf, I think that would be pretty even. Like I like to think I'm pretty good with a frisbee. Yeah, yeah. We did that, we used to do that in college. But I'd blow you away at napping. Is that a dad, that's a dad thing? I'm just saying, yeah, a dad's gonna like sit,

like hit the couch and just, who's gonna go out first? Like I could definitely blow you out of the water at napping. I can't nap competitively, that's a given. I mean, after we had that meeting, but before we came in here. You snored within 30 seconds. Well, yeah, I laid down on the couch, I was like, we got a meeting in 12 minutes,

I'm gonna take a 12 minute nap, and Jade was sitting on my lap, and I even had to pee, and I had to move Jade because she was on my bladder. I had to pee, I had a dog sleeping on top of me because she's constantly sleeping. And I know I fell asleep because I did that jerk thing. You're such a jerk. I did the jerk.

I actually looked it up. Did you see, it's called a hypnagogic jerk. Yeah. Did you, you said I was snoring, is that? Within, no exaggeration within a minute, there was a. That was when I jerked. Oh yeah, okay.

Also called a hypnic jerk or sleep starts. Sleep starts? Sleep starts, like I think that's short for like startle. Okay. Yeah, I had that happen but for startle. Okay. Yeah, I had that happen but in a 12 minute. That's why I'm a little grumpy right now. A 12 minute nap. What, it's supposed to help.

Well, I think it should have been 20 minutes as a power nap, right? Not 12 minutes. But a 12 minute nap would not, even under the best circumstances, I wouldn't go to sleep in 12 minutes. It would just be, I'm resting my eyes. I'm really trying to go to sleep.

But I literally went to sleep in. A minute. Again, so it's like, I'm saying let's put that in there. But that's not part of the triathlon, it's just darts, pool, and bowling. You know, we rapped about, in that thoughtful guy thing, we talked about the hypnagogic jerk. And it's like, I wonder if it's a defense mechanism

for something like sleeping on a cliff, or just top bunking. And they don't know why it happens. It's the same reason you find people creepy. The prevailing theory, if you're interested is that like from like a evolutionary like primal version of us, it's like sleeping, if you're like a primate sleeping in a tree,

like if you fall asleep, then you're like, the relaxation of your muscles then triggers a reflex to like grab so you don't fall out of the tree. I thought it was so you don't fall out of the womb as a baby. Fall out of the womb. It can happen. That's not up to you, that's up to the womb.

Oh. So I think we were right about the top bunking thing or like sleeping on a cliff, sleeping in a tree. It's when that jerk happens. That makes sense to me. So I'm winning at that too. Well I could add golf to the dad thing and then I win. I mean if we're adding things that we're good at,

then we can just add nauseam. Getting nauseated, I'd win at that. How about another question? One last question before the wrecking effect. Okay. This is from Austin Campen. Touches on something we've talked about before but this is a different analysis of it.

Where does it touch it? If it was confirmed that we were in the matrix or some equivalent simulation, which of course we are, and there were words that was, this is Austin, he's saying all this. Oh. And there was a way out, would you take it? You'd be leaving your family, friends, and life behind

for an unknown real world, would it be worth it? So obviously we talked, in fact, we made a valiant attempt to escape the simulation. Right, we held hands. On this very show. It did not work unless we escaped into a simulation that was exactly the same as the one we left. Because you were in a. Which there's no way to prove that we didn't.

And so you kinda answered the question that like, if you wanted to escape, you were having some alone time and you were thinking about if you could break out, would you and you said out loud. I was in the hot tub and I said, I know this is a simulation, let me out now or something. And I want out. And I want out. And I want out.

Because I thought that maybe that was the key, was just to acknowledge it. But then we tried it as buddies holding hands. Doesn't work as buddies. But the thing I didn't consider. But your answer at the time was you would do it. You seemed to just drag me along for the. No, okay, and here's what I'll say.

My knee jerk. Your hypnagogic jerk. My hypnagogic jerk answer to this question is that by default, I would get out of the simulation because it would be moving towards truth, right? So, and I'm gonna think about it on a second level and maybe take it back, but I'm saying, my knee jerk reaction to it is, oh, this is a simulation,

but yet there's a truth beyond that that you can actually ascend to. Yes, I'm gonna go there, regardless of what's on the other side. And you say ascend, but it may be descend too. Yeah, it could be. I think that's the point. Yeah, but Austin has got me thinking differently about it

because now all of a sudden, what he's saying is that, okay. Austin had to remind you that you have a family. Austin has got me thinking differently about it because now all of a sudden what he's saying is that, okay. Austin had to remind you that you have a family. Well no, it's like okay, so you, obviously you're a family but you've got your dog, Jade, is in the room with us in Jen's lap over there. Can I see the dog? And I don't have any proof of this but

you seem to be as attached to Jade as you are to any human that you are in relationship with. Now, for a moment, consider that Jade is not real. She is only, she's just the result of some clever programming. But by definition, excising yourself from the simulation would mean that you can no longer be in relationship with her.

Not doing it. I mean, I'm, you know, yeah, I got too much to lose, man. Look at me, I got it going on. I mean, you've painted a simple picture for me. But it's not real. It's not real. Neither am I.

No, no, that's exactly, no, you are real and you can get out. Now, maybe Jade is an avatar of another dog that you can make a connection with outside of the simulation. Maybe your wife is an avatar of another individual that you can make a connection with outside of the simulation.

I don't know if the simulation exists just for you or if we're all avatars in the simulation. You don't know that until you get out of the simulation. Why would the... Why would it be, it seems easier for me to believe that it would be worse outside of the simulation because I'm biased because I've got a hashtag blessed life, okay?

And it's, so it seems like, but it seems cruel that it's all fake, it's all a simulation. So it seems like that cruelty that set it up. It seems cruel? Why does it seem cruel? Because it's not real. You're hashtag blessed, man. I know, but I'm just saying on a,

but it's a farce, it's a lie. It's a lie that's a favor, I guess, to me. Maybe it is. Maybe it's just an experiment, I don't know. But, now if I knew definitively, like this is the thing is that. How could it be better? I mean, again, it's like I'm. The, like this is the thing, is that. How could it be better? I mean again, it's like I'm.

The people in the Matrix had the, they came out of the Matrix and saw the real world and then made decisions to stay because they could come back, right? Mm-hmm. But I'm just saying this is like an all or nothing deal. Like if you leave, you can't get back and you don't know what's on the other side.

For me, the unknown and the fact that it is a simulation and you can get out of it, the curiosity is too high. And then I would just justify it. I would be like, of course I love my family. Of course I love my life. But if they are ultimately just a program, then I'm not really, I'm not really, and I'm just inside the simulation.

I'm not really, I'm not losing, I'm losing an idea. I'm not losing actual beings. Again, this is like the robot relationship conversation. I thought we became convinced that like, yes, we could have what would experientially be a viable relationship with a robot and we were cool with that. But that's self-aware self-deception. So just extend that to an entire family of robots

that you're, it's like surprise, your family is robots. I just think the fact that you don't, that there's something that you could know, that there's something that you could know, that there's something on the outside that just is too much. With the robots, I know what the alternative is and I can slip into it any time. I can cease to, I can be like,

this relationship is just with a robot or I can enter into it and make myself believe it. But that makes it sound like, given the way you describe it, like okay, you would go to Mars. You would leave your family to discover the next frontier. No, because my family is real in that scenario. I'm leaving people who have the capacity,

that not only is it what I feel, but they also have the capacity to grieve. But in the simulation they do, they're basic, they would grieve. Yeah but if a robot was about to kill my dog, I'd kill the robot. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know how that applies.

It's like you don't, someone's not about to, your family member's not about to kill you. I have a bias towards biological life. Sue me. I have a bias towards my own current happiness. Okay, I mean that's cool, man. I don't know what happens to me when I leave the simulation. One day I'll figure it out.

I don't know if my body just drops. You're living a good life man. And I just die? The chances of, again, there's a lot of people who are living difficult lives. I mean we are in a percentage of people on Earth who are living like, I mean we don't deserve how good we've got it.

But you're assuming that. The chances that it's better than what we've got are nil, man. But you're assuming that my primary motivation is increased comfort. I mean, I do want to speak to my home as a slug. I know. That is true. Right. But my primary motivation for moving into the next thing is not increased comfort as much as

it's increased discovery. I think your primary motive is seeming like you could take a provocative stance. No, see, because if you were to adopt my opinion, that would be true about you, but that's not true about me. I want Sandra to come over because I want to discover what it would be like for Sandra to have a special soundtrack and flashing lights.

Give me an example of when you have sacrificed present comfort for future discovery, for potential discovery. Potential discovery? It happens all the time. Like tasting the new Carl's Jr. burger. So what? You're denying yourself, what are you denying?

What are you giving up? You don't know how it's gonna go down, man. A lame example. Okay. Rack your brain. Hot chicken. It's not comfortable. I wanted the hottest one to see what it was like.

I didn't think it was gonna be good. But if Instagram didn't exist, you would have done it? I did it the other day with no Instagram. Okay, that's true. No, but also I don't. That's not much of a sacrifice. Hold on, but no, I think our whole career though, I don't think that it's been primarily motivated

by more comfort. No, that's true. But any type of life, like you in the Spartan race, it wasn't about comfort. It was about self-discovery, man. I think it's human nature. If you're like, listen, I can't promise you what this is gonna be it's gonna be like

when you go into this room, it could be really bad or it could really be good. The thing is, is if you go into this room, the thing I can promise is it will be mind blowing. You're not gonna go in that room? I'm gonna go into that room. But you can never come back from the room. Yeah.

That's the thing. I don't care, I'm going in, man. That's the problem. I'm going in. You can't, the problem is coming back. Like we have, I don't care, I'm going in, man. That's the problem. I'm going in. The problem is coming back. I don't think we've been faced with that. Well, I don't think, I'm trying to come up, the examples that you've given are not like that. Like it's a valve.

You can't go back. Tattoo? Getting a tattoo? I don't know, you gotta keep thinking, man. I'm not convinced that you would do it. I'm just saying as a principle. No, when I was in the hot tub, I was really trying to get out.

And I was really trying to get out when we were here. Okay. I wasn't, that's why I had so much fun trying. Let us know what you would do, hashtag Ear Biscuits. But I do wanna leave you with a wreck and effect. Oh yeah, give me a wreck, man, it's your turn. Check, baby, check. I tend to recommend shows, I've noticed.

I'm gonna recommend another show. For those of you like weird, it's weird and it's not for everybody and that's why I like it. The second season just came back on Netflix, the OA. Did you ever watch that? No, I didn't. Anybody else in here watch that? It's a sci-fi situation.

Yeah, and I'm not gonna, basically what the show's about, by telling you what the show's about, is basically sort of like the season one spoiler, so I'm not gonna do that. It just, because once you figure out what's going on, so it's a little bit of a, there's a little bit of a mystery aspect.

It's just super weird. So if you like weird sci-fi, is it like Black Mirror? It has Black Mirror-ish elements in that, you know, they're kind of delving in and asking some philosophical questions of what if this could happen, what if this were true, and it is a concept that, you know, people have explored in philosophy

and it's kind of just exploring what it would be like. Are there any jolly laughs? It is not funny at all. Wow, you gotta have a little comic relief. It would be nice if it was funny, it's not funny at all. Is the writing good, is the acting good? Is it more about? Yes, the writing and acting is good.

Is there any stars that I would recognize? You would recognize the antagonist, but I don't know what he's from, but you would recognize him. Okay. And then the second season, we just started watching that, Jessie and I, it's one of the shows that we enjoy together,

just started watching that and it was just like, because I was thinking, where are they gonna go? Where are they gonna go from here? Is it rated R? Is it for the kids? Mm, it's not bad. I don't, I don't think kids could watch it. Can I start with season two?

No, definitely not. Okay. And honestly, away! I don't know if you'd like it. It's just one of those things that it's like, it's weird, it's weird. In fact, and then you know my good friends Lance and Lacey who are you know, kind of the authority on weird

without being prompted, they just texted in the text thread that they have with me and Justin, they were like, you guys watch the OA? Super weird, I think you'd like it. And we were like, oh we love it. We watch it together. You don't think I would like it? Well. I got limited screen time.

The thing I've observed, I'm trying to catch up on Game of Thrones. The thing I have observed about the way that you analyze television shows and movies is you have a difficult time enjoying things that don't have likable characters. And this is not, I don't find the main character particularly likable and I don't find anybody very likable.

I liked the story. I liked Handmaid's Tale but I didn't like House of Cards at the beginning. But I watched a lot of it. You also didn't like that, what's that show on Showtime or maybe it's HBO that's about the rich family that's supposed to be like the- Oh, The Descendants?

Succession. Succession. You didn't like that when you started watching it because you were like, I don't like any of the people, and I'm like, that's why I like it, because I don't like any other people. Yeah, it's so harsh. If you like to watch shows where everyone is unlikable, you'll love the OA.

Really, okay. But it's not like that. It's not like the main character is, the protagonist is not a jerk and you don't hate them. They're not morally corrupt. I loved House back in the day. I don't think you'd like it. He was so unlikable, he was likable.

And that was the device. There you go, okay. Maybe there's hope. It's different. All right. I'm gonna tell my house to play the next episode of OA for me. See how it responds. House, whenever I walk up to you and enter your front, start playing the OA on every screen.

What if I asked the house to play house? It might just implode. Well, it's probably smarter than that. Like, play myself, what? Breakdown. You want your whole house to collapse? Ask it to play house. Yeah, I mean, I ain't doing that.

Hashtag Ear Biscuits, talk to us, keep listening. Don't give up on us. Yeah, it'll get better.