Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - 217: Link’s Struggle with Friendship | Ear Biscuits Ep. 217

Episode Date: November 18, 2019

Friendships are made of rap battles, deep dish pizza, and LED light piping. The guys talk about their takes on friendship, challenges they've faced, especially with long-distance friendships, and when to decide whether to let someone go on this episode of Ear Biscuits! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So November 20th through November 23rd, we're gonna be in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Phoenix, Arizona, Sacramento, California, and Valley Center, California. Go to Rhettandlinklive.com to grab those tickets. We promise we will make it a very, very special night worth your time. Rhettandlinklive.com, go get them ticks.

Now on with the biscuit. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Link. And I'm Rhett. This week at the Round Table of Dim Lighting, we are exploring the challenges of maintaining a friendship. We're not gonna necessarily talk about, I mean I'm sure we will, we're not talking about

the challenges in our friendship. Maybe some of them will come out as we talk about the challenges in your friendships that you have let us into, thank you for those of you who have responded to our prompts on the social medias that we have asked and told us about some of your situations that you've got with your friends that we're going to address.

If we've got anything, it's a friendship. Good hair? No, it's a friendship. Friendship, yeah. It's a friendship and you know, with over 35 years of that continuing to happen, like constant. Friendship is still happening.

It, you know, it's. Despite the doubts and the comments from time to time. Right. And I would say, you know, to be friends as long as we have and to not get like concerned comments from fans who are only seeing us through the lens of the lens. Lens of the lens. That would be weird.

I mean, for us not to be comfortable enough with each other that sometimes these honest moments of tension come through in the things we create, I think that's a beautiful thing because it's, again, it's those, everything in friendship is not rosy. Friendship in general is very difficult and as I've looked through these questions that we're gonna discuss from Mythical Beasts,

it's a good reminder of, to me, about how much work it takes. You know, I don't wanna show our hand here but it does take a lot of work and there's no clear answers because on any given day, in any given friendship, there could be any scenario that you've never experienced before and you may not know anyone who's been through it

so you kinda, like what do I do? So we'll talk about some of that. Yeah, like all relationships, they're projects that have to receive attention. And so hopefully we can offer some insights. But you know, speaking of our friendship. Viewing friendship as a friend is a project. It's maybe a bad place to start.

Well, you know what I mean. It requires ongoing attention. But a person is not a project. That's not what I mean. It requires ongoing attention. But a person is not a project, that's not what I meant. But speaking of friendship and maintaining friendships, I mean, we did something that is just about as friendly as you could possibly do. We went and went on paddle boats this past weekend. Yeah, me and Rhett went out on a paddle boat together.

Can you picture this, the two of us on, at Echo Park, there's a lake, which I guess is called Echo Lake, is it? I just call it Echo Park Lake, I don't know if that's what it is. Echo, you're a Echo Park Lake. It's like the most, one of the most L.A. things that you can do is get on these.

Echo Lake. Echo Park Lake. Oh, Echo Park Lake. Echo Park Lake. Is get on one of these giant swans that is a paddle boat that can hold like five people and paddle around this pond. And I've been by this place so many times and I've been like, Me too. Gotta get out on one of those paddle boats. You'll see it in like, if a commercial decides to shoot

in Los Angeles, especially if they need like a picturesque scene, like if it's an ad for a medication, they'll shoot at Echo Park. Now they'll film at such an angle where like you can shoot from one side of the lake, shoot across these fountains. There's three fountains that are grouped together that shoot water probably 50 feet in the air. Straight up in the air.

And then you shoot past that and you can see the skyline of downtown Los Angeles. It's very beautiful. But you just gotta make sure that you film the proper angle around the homeless encampments. There are a few of those. Right. But they're very well.

They probably get them to leave when they're about to shoot a commercial. They're very well maintained homeless camps because I mean, they're like, there's a camp under this tree and then you go to the next tree and there's a camp. But I mean, they got nice tents. And there's this one guy, he had a freaking,

where we parked, he had a freaking, where we parked, he had a flat screen television beside his tent and I was like how on earth and then before I could get my answer I was like oh solar panels. Yeah a solar powered. Dude had solar panels. Flat screen TV out there. And a nice tent.

And so it was like this is prime real estate. I made a note. Right. If I need to live out of a tent, this is prime real estate. I made a note. Right. If I need to live out of a tent, LA's a great place. First of all, you gotta get a flat screen and a solar panel. You gotta move to LA. I'm already here. And there's just so much going on.

I mean, the thing about any outdoor space in Los Angeles on the weekend, really any time, but especially the weekend, is there's just so much happening. There's so many people there. And I know for a lot of people, that can be a problem because you're like, why can't I just go to an open space? Now you can easily get to open spaces where you won't see a soul,

you'd just have to go outside of town. But it was just like so many people of all walks of life, almost as if the people had been manufactured for the sake of a movie. Or for an insurance commercial. Walking around. I mean, medication commercial. And then you got people selling things, you got this guy giving

free vegan ice cream samples next to a guy selling Ceviche. Ceviche. And then you got the taco place, and it's just, I don't even know if these people have licenses or permits, I don't even care. And people have licenses or permits, I don't even care. And then. So picture me and Rhett holding hands and skipping around this lake together,

hopping on a swan and just pedaling out there with our jean cutoff shorts. Yeah, if you want to. And our thighs tanned. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we actually didn't get on the same swan. My sister-in-law and two nieces were in town. And then I think your wife had the idea to be like,

hey, let's all go to the swans. Let's all get on the paddle boats. Let's do this thing that we've talked about doing for 10 years and we've never done. So it was you and your wife and two of your kids. No. One of your kids. No.

Me and Christy were on a pedal boat and they call them pedal, not paddle boat. I'm just saying who was there at this event. And then my wife and my son. Well we can do it by boat. So me and Christy were on a boat. And just you and Christy. Just me and Christy.

I don't know how you worked that out. Because you volunteered to take the youngest kids. So Shepherd and his first cousin Adeline, my brother's daughter, is like, they are each other's favorite people. They're the same age. Same age within like a couple months and they just love each other,

they love spending time with each other, they're into all the same things, and they just, you know, two peas in a pod, as you say in the South. And they really love to include Lando, which is very cool, he and Shepard are really tight, but Lando's a little bit younger, so I think it's nice when Adeline enters the equation

that they still wanna include him and invite him over to swim and stuff like that. By the way, you do know that Shepard jumps off of the roof of the shed that covers the back half of your patio into the pool. Yeah they recently discovered they could do that. Well they invited Lando over and then Lando comes, we pick him up and he's coming back home and you know how Lando is.

He like had this sheepish look on his face and I remembered, I was like, Lando, did you jump off of the roof into the pool? He was like, yeah, Shepherd told me I should do it. Oh, Lando did it. And he did it. That's awesome. And then he started crying.

He was like, don't be mad at me. I was like, we're not mad at you. Boy, Shepard has never cried about anything except not getting his way. He's definitely never cried about getting caught for something. So the three of them wanted to be in the same boat and then you stepped up to the plate.

I knew an adult had, I like being the fun uncle, you know. The funcle. And I'm quite a funcle. And I was like, I'm gonna go out with these kids, they'll be fun, we can drive through. I knew they would want me to drive really close. Drive, I think, paddle. You drive a boat?

You do drive a boat. Because there is a rudder. They wanted me to go really close to the giant fountains because the wind is like blowing the water that's going 50 feet in the air and of course you can go right under it and get wet and it's like going on the log ride at Disney. Christy and I watched you do that from a safe distance.

Yeah. We spent most of our time trying to get an Instagrammable photo. You know how that is? Did you get one? Yeah, you know what, she did gram one. So I think she got what she needed. I always forget that that's a thing that you can do.

I think it's just a sign of my age that social media is still just not a part of my DNA. Well I think you were focused on the right thing, man. That was good. I know, but I mean, this is what we do, man. It's like if you're in a giant swan, you should get a picture of yourself in a giant swan. There's a freaking coffee shop out there.

I got a lavender. You make it sound like it's in the middle of the lake. It's on the dock. You have to walk through a little coffee shop that serves breakfast burritos on the weekends, what? Yeah, I love it. I got a lavender latte and I'm not ashamed of that. I love when lavender is in things.

It's one of my favorite flavors to be in things. Something that seems like it shouldn't be ingested. Yeah, let's eat perfume. That sounds like a good weekend. This lavender latte made me so happy. It's just almost as happy as being in a swan on a lake. Chasing swans, did you notice that? You could chase other swans with this a swan on a lake, chasing swans. Did you notice that? You could chase other swans with this giant swan.

Do you think that the little swans believe that the giant swans are swans? No. You think they know they're inanimate? You think they have a concept of inanimacy? Is that a word? I think they know they're not of their kind. I don't think they look at that thing and register

that it is trying to impersonate them in any way. Did you know that these swans, on the weekends, you can go out there until 10 o'clock and you saw the light? Yeah, they got some LED piping on it. You can, think about that. You can go out there at night. We could be like the tourism board for Echo Park

if we don't watch out. And then we paddled to the far end. And by the way, the other boat was Jesse and your sister-in-law, Teresa, and then. My other niece. Lily, and then your older niece, who's closer in age to Lily, Emery. Which they were hanging out.

So it was really cool. You know, Christy had a good idea. Very sweet. Christy had a lot of good ideas. We'll get to the second one. And then she, so we paddle all the way across. We're like trying to keep up with you and the kids, which they got mad because you wouldn't let them pedal.

No, no, no. What's the story there? No, no, no, no, no, no. They kept switching off. So I would be on one side, I was on the left side. So only two people can pedal at a time. So I was just like, I'm gonna pedal because I don't wanna be in the back and have to deal with two little kids up front

trying to direct where we're going. It's hard to be funkle if you're not in the driver's seat. And so I just let them rotate in the other seat, but then eventually they were mad, they wanted me to be in the back and they wanted to be driving it. And so eventually, I was gonna let them do that. But what's the first thing that you noticed

when you got out there? It's really hard to paddle and you don't go anywhere. I was like, this is my workout for the day. Oh man, I felt the burn. Yeah, like really, I felt the burn and then I felt the burn when I went to the gym. Woo! My trainer was like, okay, we're gonna do squats.

And I'm doing squats, my back is back, man. And now I'm doing squats. Oh, don't say it. I mean, we'll see how long it lasts. Not a lot of weight though. But I was like, man, I was like having trouble. I was like, well, I did paddle boats this weekend. Yeah, that's sad. I was the only person to say that in the gym that morning.

I paddle boated too hard this weekend. Well you went all the way to the other side and there's a group of people on the bank and you got there before we did and you just sat there and you're looking at them then I pull up and it's a freaking freestyle rap session. Battle. Rap battle. It's a rap battle.

On the far end of Echo Park. I love this town. Like where can you go, get a lavender latte, get on a giant swan, and then paddle your way to a rap battle. I mean, nowhere. People always ask me, every time I go back home to North Carolina, they're like, do you like it out there?

With so much skepticism dripping in their voice. We love it! Hell yeah, I love it! I love it! Yeah. And then, you know what, you got the Lavalante, I went out to use the bathroom, and there was a homeless man with his ass in the sink.

Did you see that guy? I love it here! I love it here! He was washing his ass in the sink. Did you see that guy? I love it here. I love it here. He was washing his ass? That's a good enough place to start. I didn't see that, you didn't even tell me. I didn't want you to go gawk at him. I wanted the man to have his privacy. The sun was setting, it was golden hour.

Man. I mean for a man who takes a shower and stares his neighbors down, I respected this guy. Yeah, any choice. In his dominance. Yeah. And then your wife had a great idea. We were trying to figure out what we were gonna eat

and she said, well, we can go get some deep dish pizza and I was like, say no more. We were on the lake and then you started pedaling for the shore before she even told you where it was. I haven't had deep dish pizza in so long and there's this place, is that in Highland Park where that place was? It's Echo Park.

Masa? Echo Park. Echo Park, I don't know why it's called Masa, that makes it sound like it might be an Indian restaurant but it is straight up Chicago style deep dish, takes an hour for them to bake a pie, but it is straight up Chicago style deep dish. Takes an hour for them to bake a pie. It's very reminiscent of Lou Malnati's in Chicago because we got the original, they call it,

which is sausage and mushroom, and it's got that cornbread crust stuff that's like the crispy, very corn mealy crust. And the sausage is a giant piece of sausage that's the same size as the pizza, which I've only ever seen that at Lou Manotti's, which I'm sure it's done other places. But like we got pizza and Christy was like,

you can only eat about one piece of this stuff. Oh yeah, it's so huge. So, and I could, when we finally got there and I got to the crust of the first piece and I'm like, I start to think, man, it tastes so good, I want another piece, but I don't think I can do it. And I looked over and you had, you were at the crust as well and I thought for a second we were on pace until you said.

That's my third piece. This is your third piece. It's crazy. You were going exceptionally slow though. It's so dense. It's so good, I had three pieces and then I could. You ate like the dense, it's like eating a dense loaf of bread,

like eating the whole loaf. Yeah and then as I told you, then I'll say again, I could have had a fourth piece. The only reason I didn't is because y'all made me feel bad about having three. But to transition back, these are the things that friendships are made of. Friendships are made of good times.

Rap battles, deep dish pizza. And bad times. And LED light piping. You know, you can't really, really quantify a friendship until you go through some bad times together. And I even say plural. It's basically going through life together. So as we go through these questions,

I think we'll get very specific about some problems that pop up and even how to maintain or reconnect in a friendship, things that we've been through. We are no experts. But we'll do our best. Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers.

Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. What was the last thing that filled you with wonder that took you away from your desk or your car in traffic? Well, for us, and I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Anime! Hi, I'm Nick Friedman.

I'm Lee Alec Murray. And I'm Leah President. And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents The Anime Effect. It's a weekly news show. With the best celebrity guests. And hot takes galore. So join us every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. You want to get started with a question?

Do it. This is from Kaspookie, which is Kasanora on Twitter, who she's changed her name to Kaspookie. It's a little dated after Halloween, so hopefully she's changed it. Yeah, well, she answered this question before Halloween, so it was called Kaspookie at the time. I have a friend that chronically cancels last minute.

Will plan dinner or a hangout, I'll be halfway through cooking the meal or heading to her place when she texts me to say that she can't meet anymore. Less than one hour notice. She always seems so excited up until she cancels. Sad emoji. Yeah, this is extremely frustrating.

Christy had a friend who was like this. A chronic canceler. A chronic counselor. A chronic counselor back in the day and so I would hear about it, she would complain to me and we wanted to make sure that there wasn't some unspoken thing going on. It's like do you just feel obligated to make plans but you don't, you're not really motivated to follow through,

so you're looking for an excuse. And the conclusion in this particular example was, no, that wasn't the case. There's some people who just, they can't keep plans together. But I would say it has to be on the table to consider, is this an avoidance thing? But let's assume it's not because like she said,

she's very excited, always so excited up until she cancels. And she's probably apologetic or he's probably apologetic or whatever so. Yeah, well I mean it feels like step one is, you could tell me what Christy did, it feels like it has to be addressed, right? So I think honest communication about the elephant in the room,

which is you're always canceling on me, needs to be specifically addressed. And I think that you could no longer wonder, is this an avoidance thing? Is this, because you could just say, hey, there seems to be a pattern where we've got plans and then you cancel them at the last minute

and I just wanna know and I want you to be honest with me, is this something that's just related to the way that you schedule your stuff and it's just unfortunate circumstance or is it that you just don't wanna hang out because I feel like I need to know as your friend? Yeah. That's a very tough thing to say

but I do feel like if you wanna actually make progress in this area, like you wanna pursue this friendship, you gotta take that head on, right? I think a through line of everything we're gonna talk about is gonna be how key communication is. I mean, when you're left guessing, you never know if you're right.

But I think that I'll end up sharing a story where I did choose to communicate something and it went sideways. So communication alone is not the key. It has to be proper. You know, I think, and I don't know all the criteria, but I think it's this, if you try to have as much humility as possible so it's not a confrontation,

but like the way you said it, that was like a humble approach. It's like, hey, this is, I just wanna share how this makes me feel. I actually don't know what to conclude. I really would like to hear from you about this because be very careful when jumping to conclusions preemptively, especially if it makes you upset, aggressive, something like that.

And even me talking like that, I start to get, I start to wig out when it feels like we're just giving advice. It's like I don't like being those people, so I like to share more about just what we would do. But I do think that in this instance, you never know what the other person's going through or if they're just, they may just be oblivious

to what they're doing and the impact that it has on you. Hey, I made dinner, I mean, we made plans. I sacrificed doing other things to make sure that we had this time because that's what plans do. Plans mean you're not planning to do everything else. And I would say that the vast majority of the time, assuming that what is going on is this person is just a little bit flighty,

you communicating that this is a concern of yours and pointing it out will, I don't know, I'm not especially schedule oriented person, but I'm not very flighty either. If I say I'm gonna be somewhere, I'm gonna be there. But my assumption is that people who are kinda scattered is that all it takes, what you're constantly doing with someone who's got that personality is you're kinda competing for their sort of unofficial floating priorities. Yeah. what you're constantly doing with someone who's got that personality is you're kind of competing

for their sort of unofficial floating priorities. Yeah. And so by simply expressing concern about something, you move yourself to the top of, and so the next time you say you've got plans, they will be like, okay, I know that I have a tendency to kind of flake out, so I don't wanna do that because Casanora said that this was an issue

and so I'm going to honor that. I think that's probably what's gonna happen. Now if you don't, if you can't make that, if you can't communicate in that way, if you're a person who just avoids conflict at all costs, then I think that you gotta make plan Bs. I think you gotta have a backup plan that you're okay and not emotionally drained by having to go to plan B.

So you'd be like, all right, I got plans with you know who, which means it might fall through, but if it doesn't happen, I'm gonna eat a whole deep dish pizza and watch Ghostbusters. You know, you gotta have something that you can look forward to so that you don't get pissed at them, but you can kinda reward yourself and almost kinda hope they cancel.

Well yeah, I definitely agree that you gotta find a way to not harbor resentment towards this person because it's not gonna change overnight. You know, the type of person that does this is gonna keep struggling with it even if you have a great conversation. It may take two or three times but it's gonna happen again so you have to find a way.

And maybe that's, you invite them to things where there's other people so the plans aren't contingent on that person flaking or not flaking, you know? Yeah, that's true. So it's like the thing can continue, and hey, you're invited if you wanna come, but I've changed the way I invite you to things. Yeah.

Let's move to another one. I know that there was one that, it's like three different people. Yeah, so three different people basically asked a very similar question, so I will quickly read all these. First one's from PostcardHS. How do you reconnect with someone that you used to be best friends with?

I had a best friend, but ever since we went to different schools, we stopped talking. Second question from Cameron. If you haven't talked to someone for a while and nothing really ended your friendship, like a fight or moving away, et cetera, are you still friends with that person? Should you reach out and have a conversation

or should you just let it go? And Lainey, how do I reconnect with a friend that I haven't hung out with regularly since elementary school? I have close neighborhood friends that stopped hanging out with me when our mutual friend died. Should I move on or try to befriend them again?

And if so, how? Hmm, it's interesting because you know, we've gone through life together so we've always had each other but we've also made really good friends over the years that I do, I wonder if you would call it a pattern of like losing connection. Everybody that we've connected with

and it's like we got the grade school through high school friends, we had some tight friendships there. Then we had some really tight college friends. And then we had, there's like a few post-college people and like I'm thinking of specific people all along the way that when we, especially when we moved out here, our friendship got more, well we made friends out here,

you know, but all those friends were physically left behind but then I think it's a continuing pattern of like, not really maintaining those friendships. And we discussed on a previous podcast about our issues with texting and talking on the phone. And neither of us are good at either of those and we don't use texting or talking on the phone really as a way to connect with people,

it's usually a way to coordinate some particular strategic action. And then you couple that with the fact that everybody's busy, I understand, but our time is very much scheduled. Like we've got friends, there's a lot of people that we're friends with in Los Angeles, and you'll be on a text thread with them

and it'll be like 2.30 p.m. on a Wednesday and all of a sudden, they start texting each other and they text each other and they're like putting memes in there and somebody's telling a story and somebody's responding to it. Right. 2.30 p.m. on a Wednesday, 95 times out of 100, we're doing something that we just can't,

I can't just be like I'm gonna get out of this meeting or this brainstorming session or whatever it is and enter into this text chat. So we don't. For all intents and purposes, for our working hours. We're unavailable. We don't have a, it's like we don't have a phone

for personal use. And then when we get home, it's like okay, I haven't seen my kids or my wife all day. I'm gonna spend some quality time with them, maybe I'll be able to stay up long enough to watch a television show with my wife if I can do it but I'm going to bed pretty early so I can get up and go to the gym.

It's like we don't leave a lot of space for connecting with people who are not close to us physically. It's gotta be like okay, all right, we're going out with this couple on a double date on Friday night or we're having this event at my house. Six weeks from now. And you know it's like a lot of it has to be booked

because then you've got a couple of nights on the weekend, you got the stuff that your kids have planned that you gotta attend, then you got like, okay you got relatives coming into town, like your nieces. So we have a difficult time just keeping up with the people in Los Angeles. And then you've got people who live in different parts of Los Angeles and if they're on the west side,

they might as well be in South Carolina. And so then everybody back home in North Carolina, people that you've been friends with for a long time, unless you're someone who can text and talk on the phone for extended period of time, those friendships become, like we've got a number of friendships where I consider myself very close to someone that is in North Carolina and if we decide to get together

while I'm in North Carolina or they come out here, we have a great time and then we pick up exactly where we left off and I think we've all kind of accepted this isn't the kind of friendship that we're gonna be relying on each other on a regular basis. This is something we re-enter into. Right, like two examples. So Mike from back in North Carolina,

work will bring him out here to California and sometimes it may not be too close, maybe like Bakersfield but then he'll make a point and like with a lot of advance notice to like initiate with us and say, hey, I'm coming into town, can we get together one night or let's go camping for a few nights. You know, we used to do that.

Like once a year we would go camping. It was something that like, he would always initiate it, you know, because he was the one coming into town, he would give us heads up and we would, so we always make some time. Lately, over the past couple of years, we haven't been able to make the time for the camping like we used to do.

But it's on his initiative. Whenever I go back to North Carolina, the timing is so limited, I'm just prioritizing my family and if I get to see one friend when I'm there, I'm very lucky, because it's like the once a year trip. And then you've got the other, another example like Eric, who lives in Utah. And so when we go to, he lives in Park City,

so when we would go to Sundance, well, I mean, if he found out we were going there and we didn't see him, that would be an insult. I mean, it's like, because, I mean, he's a high school friend, he was in the Wax Paper Dogs with us. We don't really communicate at all except when we happened to see him there or like when we went, we went to something else.

Oh, we had a show. We introduced him to the audience in Utah, in Salt Lake. Yeah, in Salt Lake City. And so, but when we see him or when we see Mike, it's like the friendship picks up right where it left off. And I think those are two examples of like an understanding. I think that in a lot of ways, those individuals like Mike or Eric have,

I feel like they've kind of adjusted to us in some way, but that's my assumption. I know Mike, because I've been friends with him for a long time, is the kind of guy who will get on the phone and talk for a long time. Like his job requires him to drive a lot of places and he'll talk to people on the phone and talk for a long time. Like his job requires him to drive a lot of places and he'll talk to people on the phone. And he can just-

But he doesn't talk to you, right? You don't talk to him on the phone, do you? No, very rarely. It's like we'll text and we'll get something set up and then of course, then we have like long conversations, the three of us, once we're doing something like camping together or whatever. Right, and like we got the friend who,

he went back to Australia for weeks. Yeah. And it was like, we're really tight. But it's, I find the conversations that we have over text, it's more like, when are you coming back? It's not like, let's continue our friendship while you're gone because I'm just so bad at continuing a friendship over text.

You know, so I find that it's like, it's all just very practical. And I think we've talked about that before and like learning how there is an opportunity for text to be a legitimate way to continue a friendship. But I have this sense of guilt and obligation whenever like I fall out of connection with somebody. I have this sense of guilt and obligation whenever I fall out of connection with somebody and I think I just put that on myself

and over the years, I feel like when the two of us talk about it, we've said things that have made me feel better and I don't know if they're true or healthy but we say things like, well, you know what, I'm not good at texts, I'm not good at long-term friendships but when I see them, it'd be fine. You know, but like a great example is Greg. We were super tight with Greg in college

and like, you know, he's working up in Washington State and doing his own thing and like we saw him when we went on tour up there, like they came in but it's not like, occasionally he'll text me and then we'll have an exchange that'll, it'll fizzle out over the course of 10 minutes. And then in the past, there would be like, let's have, we would hop on the phone a couple of times. We'd have like an hour long catch up session.

But like, I mean, I love my mama, but I have a really hard time calling her on the phone and reconnecting. But I have this sense of guilt that's like, I don't talk to my mom enough or like I don't, like I wish that I had a more of an active friendship with Greg because he's so busy with his work, much like us, it's like he doesn't have the opportunity

to come down here and visit and we don't have the opportunity to go up there and visit. So that's been difficult because I actually, I've moved from feeling, I don't know, I moved from feeling like this is just the way it is. I still love the guy and I know he loves me but the circumstances make it where our friendship can't be active to feeling bad about it

and then kind of back and forth, I don't know. Yeah, I just, I don't like, I don't want to put that on myself. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't, I know I can make all kinds of excuses, but I just don't want to, I don't think it's healthy for me personally to sit around and feel guilty about it.

Yeah, yeah. Now, it's one thing if the person is going through something specifically challenging and they need me. Yeah. If they don't, none of the people that I'm thinking about right now don't have some people in their lives

that can meet some of those needs. I'm not in a place to be like, what can I do for you tangibly? And so I have just kind of become okay with, the nature of these friendships is that they pick up where they left off when they do. And that's a great thing and there's no hard feelings. And I just feel like trying to make anything more of it,

I don't know, I just feel like I'm setting myself up for disappointment, both disappointment in myself and them being disappointed in me. If I like start trying to say, hey, actually the dynamic of this thing is gonna change, like we're going to have this dynamic long distance friendship via text or via a phone call every now and again. I just know that it's not gonna be a reliable thing

and I just don't wanna begin it. It's not realistic for you. And yeah, I think it'll become more clear that I do have some neurosis associated with this, but I would like to believe, to build on your point, that if we heard that Greg or someone in his family was going through something, that if we knew we could be of help by being there,

that we would do everything we can to drop what we're doing to go up there. If there was something bad that happened, if they were going through something. But in the absence of that, an occasional text is like, hey, you crossed my mind. I still aspire to at least dabble in that. Yeah.

And it's interesting because we were closest with Greg and then in college and then Tim moved in and then Tim was really close with Matt and we got close with Matt. And we got a text from Matt yesterday and all he was doing was asking if we had listened to Matt and then you know, we got a text from Matt yesterday and all he was doing was asking if we had listened to an album, you know? Did you get that text because?

I did and I listened to the album but you responded on the text thread and then I never got around to responding on the text thread which is an interesting thing that happens sometimes where if somebody is sending something to the both of us, whether it's an email or a text, I've got this thing in my mind that if one of us responds, the other one isn't obligated to

and I know that that's not what this, this wasn't a business thing, this was like, hey, have you listened to this album? Yeah. And so I was actually thinking about that a second ago, I was like, yeah, I haven't gotten back on that text thread to be like, I also don't like the album that you recommended.

But I only listened to it one time. And so then he was like, oh, you gotta listen to it two or three times, so then I was like, okay, I'm gonna listen to this album again and then I'm gonna get in on the text thread. But I could also just say that on the text thread. But I think it was cool that, you know, that, and he, like, either every single time

or the vast majority of time he initiates the conversation because we just, like I don't know if we've ever initiated a text with Matt, but like every month or so there's like a little exchange and it's actually valuable for me to like, for what it is and for me not to attach some sort of guilt that I'm not doing more. It's also valuable because he's introduced us, Matt is the one who introduced us to Sturgill,

and then Jason Isbell. I don't think Sturgill, because I think we went in Amoeba Records, and I literally saw the record, and I was like, who is this? Okay, well I know for a fact he introduced me to Jason Isbell. Yeah.

And I am as thankful for that as any music recommendation that I've ever gotten. Oh wow. And then you've got Tim who, I think because of the result of some of the stories we told on this podcast that he started to reach out to discuss those with us and- Correct our errors. Correct our errors, but it led to like.

Fact check. Us having more of a conversation and connecting more and I really enjoyed that. It was like, it was a little odd that it's like, okay, he's listening to Ear Biscuits and then he's, and I'll tell you why it was odd. I'll try to articulate that. And then, because he's probably listening.

But it felt odd to me because it was just like, okay, you know, he's sitting on a conversation we're having but we're not having it with him so it's like, I don't know, I have all this guilt associated with friends because I'm like, I feel bad you're listening to our podcast but you can't be here at the table to be a part of the conversation. Like if we were, if we had an active friendship

like we used to have, like you'd have a part of the conversation. Like if we had an active friendship like we used to have, like you'd have a seat at the table. And I know that's not healthy and I know he's not thinking that, but I start to think like if Greg or Tim or Matt listened to our podcast, did they start to feel like we're not good friends or something to them

because we never initiate conversations with them. I don't know why I attach so much guilt to these things, but I do. Actually, I guess I'll share this story. Where it really came to a head, a friend out here in LA, and I'm gonna try to be very careful in telling this story because this story is about me, it's not about him at all.

But it's about a text exchange that I had because I was, he's a friend that, we were close a couple of years ago, like right when we moved to LA, but then it was like, because, purely because of circumstantial reasons, we fell out of being in contact. Like it went from seeing each other every week or every few weeks, even if you didn't plan it,

we would see each other, and having little conversations that then kind of trickles into, hey, let's make plans, or we're going here for lunch, you wanna come type of thing to like, none of that, we're just in different circles. Kind of like what some people ask, how do you reconnect? And so then it would be like once, maybe twice a year, we'd see each other, or he would come over,

and we would have this reconnection session that would be like an hour, maybe two hours. And it would be great to reconnect, but then it would be like radio silence from both parties for a long time. And I guess one day, it caught me at a bad time that he decided to text me out of the blue. And it was just a friendly text.

It was something like, miss you, man, or thinking about you. And I had been struggling with in general, and you know where this story is going, but I was struggling with if I feel something or if I think something, I should say it. So just in general, like I'm trying to become a person who's more honest about what I'm thinking or feeling

or going through or how I feel like I should respond to somebody and I thought it would be a healthy practice for me to respond to his text with exactly what I thought, what I thought in the moment. But what I was thinking was, I don't, well, you know what? I'll read what I wrote back. Okay, I remember this. He's like, dude, I miss you.

That was his text. Again, this is about me, not him. That was all his text said. And I was like, I'm just gonna, I got a lot of feelings are coming up in me and this is what I wrote. Hey man, thanks for the message. Honestly, it's very tough for me to know how to respond.

So I'll just be real about it. I care about you, but I just don't have time in my life where I'm at right now with family and work to devote enough time to take the friendship we had before and make it work now. There are a few friends in my life now that I'm actively trying to maintain a quality friendship with and it is proving to be very difficult purely from a practical standpoint.

I wish it weren't the case but I respect you and wanted to be honest about it. So I'm writing this from a place of love. Thanks for hearing me out, man. And you're laughing because why on earth would anybody who has an ounce of kindness in their heart write this in response to a friend who simply wrote, dude, I miss you, right? Is that what you're laughing at?

Well, no, I'm laughing because this is such a, it's just such a link thing. It just, it's comical to me. Now, it was an experiment in honesty because I felt guilty about everything that I felt is true. And let me, I wanna, as your best friend, I wanna comment on that because I find that very interesting that that, first of all, I think your instincts are great.

Right, I think that the guilt that you feel about friendships and your sense of obligation and your obligation to be honest with people, I mean, these are all really good things. This is not, this shows that you're a person of character. I think that it's interesting that you made a conscious decision to be like, I feel like I need to say what I think more.

Because on the spectrum of people who say what they think, you're pretty high on the spectrum of the frequency with which who say what they think, you're pretty high on the spectrum of the frequency with which you say what you think. Candor. Is pretty high, potentially the highest of anyone that I know personally. Okay, okay. If you can name a person who says what they think

about things more often than you, that we know collectively, I would be interested to know who that person is. I can think of one person that we knew and I didn't much like this person for that reason. So. That person would always say exactly what they thought. And so it's, and of course. With no concern for how it would be received.

And so, yeah, and my tendency, not that I don't talk a lot, not that I don't have a lot of opinions, but in certain situations like this, it's just like, I'm always gonna be on team, just say something to be nice, to just keep things where they're at. Don't push away and don't pull that,

like my tendency is to say something that just kind of keeps things at a stasis. That's just my instinct. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but in every type of interaction, I'm just, I don't wanna move things further in either direction and that's just my sort of knee-jerk response to any kind of interaction like that.

Well, and it just drove me crazy to feel like I respected this person, this friend of mine, that I couldn't give them what I felt like a true friend would give. And so just, I felt like I needed to define the relationship so to speak. Well and I will. Out of respect.

But I will say in addition to this, to add more color to this situation without getting into specifics, that this person was going through something difficult and had reached out to both of us and spent some time kind of catching us up on what they were going through. And it was obvious that they wanted and needed friends

to kind of help them get through this situation. And so there was a, you know, we had similar interactions, you with him and then me with him separately. I don't think we got together, the three of us. No. And so, and I felt like, it was weird for me because I was like, I don't think I can give this person what they need right now

for a number of really complex reasons. But I just, and so, and maybe you communicate, he didn't send me a text that said I miss you, because I assume that when you're interacting, you felt more of an obligation to be like, okay, I can see what this guy needs and I'm gonna try to give it to him, which that's not good on me, that's good on you.

I mean, I'm probably giving out the vibe that's just like, okay, I can see that Rhett is not available to me in this way. And so he's not, but he may have thought that you were available to him in that way. So you probably sensed a little bit of pressure when he sends that text, it's like,

hey, I still need you to help me through this. And his response was very gracious, very kind, but it was also clarifying that, I mean, he was basically saying, I was just being friendly, this wasn't coming from a place of me needing something from you. I just wanted, it was more of just like a friendly, we're friends. Just checking in.

Yeah, it was just like, and it wasn't anything more than that. And there was a little bit of an exchange there where we clarified what each other meant. And then a day later, I wrote back one last thing. And I said, I read back through my text and just wanted to apologize for giving what must have felt like a cold hearted out of the blue response

to a friendly kind text. I was trying to respect you by being honest about what I was able to give, even though you were not asking for anything. And I'm sorry if it insulted or otherwise hurt you. You deserve better. And I think that's what I was actually trying to say. And he responded, I appreciate that.

And that, I mean, because of my experiment and honesty, I'll call it air quotes. That was apparently the end of our friendship. It was definitely the end of that exchange. And it I mean, I guess that was my message. It was like, I love you and respect you, but I don't have time to invest in a friendship in a way that I think you deserve.

Therefore, I just needed to get this off my chest and break up with you. I regret it. I think about when am I gonna cross paths with this guy and you know, in a Ralph's grocery store on the street or something. And like I often think about what I'm going to say. And now I'm tortured by that.

You know, it's like. Well, so let's get back to her question though, right? Yeah. Because I think maybe we have different perspectives on this and it's like. Well, so let's get back to her question though, right? Yeah. Because I think maybe we have different perspectives on this and that's fine. And I'm not just saying this is my advice because this is what I do because I don't, it isn't that I don't feel guilty about it at all

when we talk about it in this way, but I think I've made a decision and maybe this is a decision out of self preservation. But I mean, one of the things that I have learned in therapy is that it's okay to make decisions that have your own health, your own mental wellbeing in mind. And I think that, you know,

we come from a place where I think that there is a sense that, you know, self-sacrifice is super important and kind of always putting other people's needs before yours is super important. And I, in principle, agree with those things, in principle, right? But there's sometimes just because, like sometimes your needs are actually,

you gotta think about what your needs are and you have to think about the reality of a situation. And so I think the way that I interact with these long-term friendships is just like, okay, when I have the opportunity, like a real opportunity, whether that's a text exchange, even if it's just initiated by the other person, or it's seeing them in person,

I wanna be present and I wanna be available and I want to be invested in the friendship for that time. But then when we're not physically together and I want to be invested in the friendship for that time. But then when we're not physically together and we kind of go back to our own lives because we're not in a situation that we're gonna be brought into each other's presence on a regular basis, I'm going to be okay with the fact that there's not much

of a friendship in the gaps. And I'm gonna be okay with that because I feel like trying to make anything beyond that happen is gonna be something that I'm not going to be good at it and it's not gonna be a regular thing and it's only going to lead to disappointment. If we can have an understanding that

there's not gonna be much here until we see each other again. And hey, let's be open to that. Let's try to make that happen. If we're gonna be in the area, I'm gonna let you know so we can get together. Let's be open to that. Let's try to make that happen. If we're gonna be in the area, I'm gonna let you know so we can get together. Like let's be proactive about planning. Hey, let's go to see a game back in Raleigh together

or something like that. Or hey, we're coming to your town, come out to our show and let's hang out. My advice to these three people who are asking about different situations is like, and I don't know if some of these situations may not be like a long distance, it may just be like I was friends with this person

and now I'm not. My tendency is just to be like friendships are very difficult but I don't know if, it depends on the situation but I don't know if it's worth it to be like, all right, I'm going to place the burden on myself that if I don't, if this friendship is not rekindled, there's something wrong with me.

You know what I'm saying? Like I don't think, I don't think you have to force it. Yeah, I do think, I appreciate what you're saying. It's helpful. Yeah, I do think, I appreciate what you're saying, it's helpful because I think friendships are, it's a reciprocating cyclical process, you know? It's a relationship and there's give and there's take and take and give and there's take and take and give. And it takes both parties being on enough of the same page

to continue to move a friendship forward. So if you're the one wanting to rekindle a friendship, you gotta respect the fact that that person on the other end of that might not be in a position to make that happen or exactly the way that you would want it to or envision it coming together, if at all. I found in the clarifying exchange that I have with my friend and I do still call him a friend,

he clarified that he knew, but based on the fact that he, like whenever a conversation happened, it would be hit on his initiative. So he said, I actually understand that. So me reaching out was just a kindness. There were no strings attached. I think that's why I feel bad is that like, I made assumptions where they're,

I made wrong assumptions about why he was saying and that like there were strings attached that they weren't, which then it was presumptuous, where he was just being nice, you know? Yeah. But I think, I mean, relationships are dicey and so you've gotta, and you can't, like you said, you can't force something to work if it's not gonna work.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but you should, I think your advice is initiate lightly and just see what comes of it. I mean, it's just like in a romantic relationship, if you're really into somebody, you can lead a horse to water, so to speak. But you can't make somebody fall in love with you. But don't date a horse.

Especially if they're a horse. Don't date a horse. I mean, it's much more, I think we fall back on thinking of friendships as being this thing that's like, oh, it's so easy, we don't, I think we fall back on thinking of friendships as being this thing that's like, oh, it's so easy and it just happens. And it's like, aren't I likable? Aren't you likable?

Well then can't we be friends? It's like, no, there's a lot of freaking factors. It's very, I mean, in many ways, it's just as challenging as a romantic relationship. Well, and you know, I think that we may be thinking about this in a very narrow way because of our age. Because we just assume, again, we've already established that we're not great at connecting with people digitally.

Via phone or text or heck, I've got a VR headset now. I could sit down in a room with someone who's got one. And maybe physical proximity will continue to become less and less a factor in maintaining a friendship. And maybe that has already happened. And because I think what I just said a second ago is that, hey, listen, if we're together physically, I want to make an effort to be there for you

and to be a listening ear and to catch up and to be present. But if we're not physically present together, the best I'm going to do is just try to be proactive about opportunities for us to be physically present together that are practical. And maybe that's a really narrow way to look at it. I understand that about myself. And you might be like, hey, guys, listen,

my best friends are people that are in different countries that I connect with, that I video chat with. What is this? Right. Most of the people that we're talking about are kind of like us, of our generation, and we're not video chatting with a lot of people in the way that like our kids will just, you know, you were talking about Lincoln

just being on like a constant video chat with a group of friends. Yeah. On that like house party app or whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah, I understand, okay, this generation, this next generation is different. So maybe our advice is not very applicable to them.

So I don't know where you're at with these situations. I would just say that if you feel like you need that person, like you need that friendship or they might need that friendship, then I think like you said sort of initiating but not initiating, don't, I just, the idea of putting a burden on yourself and feeling this, all of a sudden,

there's a negative obligation or guilt that's associated with your interaction with that person. To me, I just don't like that negativity. When I think about somebody we went to college with, I've got good memories and I think about, the next time we're hanging out, we're gonna have a good time. But I don't wanna think about somebody we went to college with, I've got good memories and I think about the next time we're hanging out, we're gonna have a good time. But I don't wanna think about,

and then every other time I think about them, all I do is just associate guilt with the fact that I don't talk to them enough. Yeah. It doesn't seem healthy. It's not. So how can I focus on what the positive is? But like you said, if they're going through something,

they need somebody to talk to, they need somebody to show up for them, whether that's physically or digitally, then I hope that I can do that. And I feel an obligation to do that. But that doesn't mean in every sense it's appropriate or the right choice for you to even do that. Right.

I think we do need to say that. It's like just because somebody needs a friend, there has to be scenarios where that doesn't automatically mean you have to be that friend. Right. So I'm just trying to tip the scales and I'm saying that more for myself. And again, that wasn't actually the case.

I think I might have brought some of that assumption, but that wasn't the case with the scenario that I explored. But I actually don't know, where do you come down on this text exchange? That, I mean, if you're saying you would have just been nice and like you would have continued the niceties and then, I mean, and then the opposite, that's one extreme, right?

Is it not? And the other extreme is clearly what I did, which is basically break off the friendship because I couldn't be, you know, everything I thought I had to be, which wasn't even the case. I don't know. I mean, I definitely am, like I said,

my tendency is to maintain the status quo and I don't, I really don't like uncomfortable situations, I don't like awkwardness, I don't like conflict. And so it's really difficult for me when I'm like, okay, I need to be honest with this person so that we can clarify where we're at so we can actually reach some sort of conclusion. Like I'm much more likely to be like,

okay, this is going to be this sort of thing that just indefinitely continues and isn't really that big of an inconvenience. It's easy to just send back a text that says, miss you too, man. But when it's like, hey, let's get together and do this. And it's like, I've got these people that I feel like I need to prioritize because they're like more

in my inner circle and I can't say yes to them right now and give them what I want to give them, forget what they need, what I want to give them as a friend, then at that point, you're just lying and saying, actually, I can't get together, I have plans. You know, it's like you're just letting people read between the lines. It's like, okay, you can see that you're initiating,

you know, I'm not a bad person for just, you know, I think most people can get the message. It's like, hey, it's not that I don't like you, it's just that I don't have capacity. Yeah, I think my theory is that you arrive at the same result with a little less awkwardness. Yeah. And it might take a little bit longer to get there for somebody to get the message

that like, oh, he's not really available. I'm not, I don't necessarily think that one is better or worse. You are ripping the bandaid off, I'm letting the bandaid fall off in the shower. You know what I'm saying? And maybe it should have come off a little. I wouldn't shower with someone who's not that close

of a friend, but go ahead. Maybe the band-aid should have come off a little bit earlier. But I tend to, it really takes a lot for me to have an uncomfortable conversation with somebody. So I tend to. I need to take this to therapy, clearly. Yeah, you do.

I mean, I think there's probably some deep-rooted fear of abandonment thing that then I don't wanna put on other people even when they're not even expecting or fearing that themselves. I would say that that would be something to explore. I think it's probably something in that arena. So, I mean, we can leave it at that. Okay.

It seems to me I'm pressing you to solve my problem. I don't have a solution. I'm just telling you the way that I would do it and it tends to be okay. Yeah. I've definitely slowed my roll on saying what I'm thinking which brings it back to the still maybe obnoxious at times level that you're used to.

I don't know how much help we've been. We didn't answer a lot of questions. We did answer three questions at once. You know what, it was helpful. And we took a lot, I mean, it was more. Hey, it was helpful for me, thank you. We did what we often do, which is we take your questions and then we make it.

So you're now, you're apologizing for that? An internal exploration of our own lives. But hopefully, you know what, we're all learning together as a large community. And hopefully we're getting better at doing things. I quite enjoyed the conversation and I'm kind of nervous about it going out there, but. Why, you got nothing to be,

you got nothing to apologize about? And if you do, you will. I do have a rec in effect. Okay. Mine is a book that I am listening to that everybody's talking about this book. Oh, you gotta read it or listen to it. I'm halfway through it.

It's captivating, it's enthralling. It's Catch and Kill by Ronan Farrow. So of course, Ronan Farrow, he is most known as being Woody Allen and Mia Farrow's son, even though he, for understandable reasons, He is most known as being Woody Allen and Mia Farrow's son, even though he, for understandable reasons, likes to distance himself from his famous parents and he has a career of his own as a journalist. A lot of help you just gave him.

He was the one who was very instrumental in sort of breaking the Harvey Weinstein story. And it's just this incredibly engrossing tale of him trying to get to the bottom of the story and just be able to report it. And all the crazy stuff that he encountered in the process of going after someone as big and as powerful and as with many connections

as Harvey Weinstein. Just fascinating, fascinating story. So it's a docu, it's a docu novel. Yeah, and his, the audio book, which he was actually, some people made fun of him for this, but I thought it was great. Oh, okay. He does all the voices for his audio book

and he like does like impersonations of the people he spoke with, whether they be Australian, British, or a woman with a sultry voice, and he basically just does all the accents and he does a really good job at it. But it's nonfiction. It's not fiction, this is all, and he plays, there's a recording,

there's the famous recording of Harvey Weinstein that one of the actresses that he was harassing took. Wow. And it's in there. Anyway, fascinating story if you're into that kind of thing. Catch and Kill, I'm recommending the audio book because that's what I've listened to,

but I'm sure it's a great book to read as well. Okay, thanks for hanging out with us. Hashtag, every time I say hashtag, now I wanna say hashtag Bleak Creek because we've been promoting the novel so much. Keep talking about Bleak Creek. Hashtag Ear Biscuits. You can use both of them.

If you wanna talk about hashtag Bleak Creek on hashtag Ear Biscuits, we don't care how many hashtag hashtags you use. But you know what? You can hashtag count on us hashtag being back again next week just like we are most every week. And you know what? Be in your friend.

Yeah, you know what? We'll be your friend, hashtag friends. We're your friends.