Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - 218: How We Balance Living In The Moment And Documenting The Moment | Ear Biscuits Ep. 218

Episode Date: November 25, 2019

These 2 fathographers have documented and shared on social media (shoutouts to ensue) special moments in their lives from meditating on a rock in Joshua Tree with the boys and taking a family trip to the other side of the world. R&L discuss their philosophy and practice on how they decide when or if to take a photo or just to soak up the experience for what it is on this episode of Ear Biscuits! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is mythical. Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Link. And I'm Rhett. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we are exploring the question,

how do you balance living in the moment versus documenting the moment? Taking pictures, man, taking pictures. This is a question from Ashley, at Fancy McGriddles. Thank you for the submission, Ashley. On a weekend camping trip, I took no pictures. This is her talking, not me. I'm reading her question at this point.

Just totally clear. I follow. I think most people also do. It was nice to be away from my phone, but I'm sad I don't have any photo memories to look back at. How do I decide? Extreme, that's extreme. Yeah, it is extreme not to take any photos on a trip. How do I decide if it's better to snap photos

versus live in the moment phone free? Hashtag Ear Biscuits. We're gonna dig in on this question. This is the question we're gonna explore. I think there's an element of memory and memory's relationship to photos, but then once you talk about photos, you start talking about the gram,

and then you start talking about, I mean all of these, there's a lot of tension between living in the moment and taking these photographs that people have been taking. And then what do you do with them? I didn't know it, but I had slowly developed some philosophy. And you know, as we lead into Thanksgiving, or if you're watching the video version,

just basking in the aftermath of that, you can find yourself with lots of photos or none or somewhere in the middle. So photos tend to happen more around the holidays. So it's- It depends on how good looking your family is. It's nice that we wrap our minds around this. Some people have members of the family

that don't wanna be in pictures. Oh gosh, well we gotta get, okay. I'll get into that too, based on my Thanksgiving plans. I know that happens with your family. Speaking of Thanksgiving, there's a big Black Friday sale lasting through Sunday at mythical.com. We got Mythical merch up to 40% off. So when you're thinking about getting stuff for yourself

or other people for the holidays and taking advantage of those sales, don't forget about mythical.com. Yeah, speaking of black and black, I wanna tell you a little something and ask you a question. Okay. Before we get into the question.

We live in a place where there are black widows. That's right. And it is not uncommon to find a black widow. In fact. I'd find it back in North Carolina too, but I think I found more out here around my house. Oh, I found, I don't think I ever saw one in North Carolina.

Well, I probably did. They existed there. But I've seen them, if you tell me, hey boy, find me a black widow. Like if you come to my house and you say that, no one's ever done that. But if somebody did do that, like if the black widow. Like if you come to my house and you say that, no one's ever done that. But if somebody did do that, like if the black widow collector came.

The grim reaper of black widows? Seven minutes I could have one. Seven minutes I could have one in a jar. I know where one is in my backyard too. So in like 30 seconds I could have one because I know where one is. Okay, well this is, we are definitely gonna get into it in a second, because you know where one is

and he's still there. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so, and also there's brown widows, which apparently are even. You talking about a brown recluse? No, there's a brown, I think it's a brown widow. Isn't there a brown widow? I don't know. Well, maybe I got bad information, but somebody told me about a brown widow. Isn't there a brown widow? I don't know.

Well, maybe I got bad information, but somebody told me about a brown widow. Kiko's looking this up because in my old house that I moved from, there are. There was a bunch of brown widows, at least that's what, and Kiko just confirmed they do exist. They still have a red hourglass on their abdomen? From what I remember, yes.

It basically looks like a Black Widow, but it's brown, and I think that it's not as poisonous, but there's more of them, and it's like, it hurts even less, but then it hurts, I don't know. Anyway, I found one two nights ago, just out there. It was, and so Shepard has found this, while hiking last year, he found this stick

that looks like one of the walking sticks that if you ever go into one of those shops at a national park and they're selling walking sticks. Like a gift shop, yeah. You're like, that is a nice walking stick. I'm thinking about getting one, but you never actually get one because, what am I gonna do with this walking stick? I don't need it to walk. I think if I'm gonna about getting one, but you never actually get one because, like what am I gonna do with this walking stick?

I don't need it to walk. I think if I'm gonna do that, I'm just gonna go full ski poles. You know the people who are like really getting hot on the hiking? I've seen the ski poles. They got like the walking poles. They look like ski poles and there's two of them.

Yeah, this is more of a Gandalf situation. This is like a staff. I don't think you need, I think if you think you need one, you really need two. I think actually having one makes it worse than having none. Yeah, you get asymmetrical leg syndrome. Anyway, right at the bottom of,

he had a staff kind of, I'm calling it a staff now. Oh, he bought one? No, he found one on a hike. Okay. And it is incredible. It's way taller than him, it's big enough for me. It's probably almost six feet tall and it is a perfectly straight thing.

And I've actually talked to him about how we need to like sand it down and like get it lacquered. Shellac it? So then we could like take it to a national park store and sell that for $25. So you'd be like one of those guys out front. Be like, don't buy the walking sticks inside. Yeah, I got you, I got you.

My son found this one. I got you a stick right over here, come on over here. But in the meantime, while we're waiting to shellack it, it is just leaning against the house. And between the staff and the house, there was a web, and in the middle of that web, there was a giant black widow. So I have-

You say giant, how giant are you talking? As big as they get. So a fat one. Oh gosh. That could cover your eye and eyebrow. So I did what I always do when I, now first of all, I understand spiders are good. Don't give me that, okay?

I know spiders catch other insects, et cetera, et cetera, they're part of the ecosystem. But I don't want a black widow attached to something that my child is going to grab. And it's one thing to see black widows in a garden area, kind of around your house. It's another thing to see them attached to your house, because that's what this one was.

Attached to something that's made to be touched. And I think that once the Black Widow has made contact with my domicile, its rites have ended. And then subsequently its life will end. I'm not Mr. Put it in a jar. No, this is a spider. What I do is I go, I grab spider killer spray.

That's what I got, not a sponsor. You got spider killer spray? Spider killer spray, it got it on Amazon. It comes in an orange spray thing, can. And of course, I want this to be- You already own this spray. I've had it ever since I saw those first black widows and brown widows around my house.

Dang, I need some of that. I mean, I got wasp and hornet spray, but I never got spider spray. The spiders will laugh in the face. The spiders will drink the hornet spray, like it's La Croix. No impact, no effect. You gotta get spider killer.

Spiders drink La Croix? The ones around my house do, yeah. They're in California. Poor spiders don't have a husband anymore. Out there just getting thirsty. So I said, Shepard, come here boy, I got a lesson. I'm sure he comes running when you say you got a lesson. Yeah, yeah, and so.

You didn't say that. No, I just said, Shepard, come here, I found a black widow. Oh. And he was like, ooh. Because earlier in your testimony, you said, Shepard, come here, I got a lesson. I was thinking I got a lesson. And you were embodying your thoughts. I was implying that.

And so it was already dark and we shined a phone light on this black widow. I took the spider spray and I just sprayed it directly on her? Her, yeah. So if they look like a black widow, are they all females? Is there like a black? Definitely. There's a black widow that's like the widower

and he looks different? Yeah, he's brown. And so I sprayed her and she reacted. She's not happy, this was not LaCroix, this was not Hornet spray. What'd she do? She began to go up her web. I'm feeling sorry for this.

This is exactly what I wanted to get at, okay? She's lost her husband, I'm telling you. Now she's getting rained on. This spider is going up its web, clearly impacted by by spider spray, the spider killer spray. Okay. Me and my little boy are watching it happen,

kind of enjoying it. It's going up this thing, it's getting slower and slower and slower until it goes, I mean, it probably went like six or seven feet. Oh, that's a big web. To the top of this thing that was on the house and eventually it just sort of just stopped and sort of curled a little bit

and that was the moment of death. Time of death, approximately 7.32 p.m. Stop, drop, shut them down, open up shop, oh. Now, we live in a world where a not insignificant percentage of you listening will be upset with me because I killed a spider and watched it die slowly. And I can tell you're open to hearing their arguments. And.

Your preemptive disgust. You can't even hear from them, man. So, all right, before I continue and get. I'll embody them. Okay, before I. I feel bad, man, you lose your husband. You get sprayed, all of a sudden, you're like what if all of a sudden it rained on you

and you realized it was poison. Why did you have a spider that you're not, that you're just letting be? You talking about Mary? Mary quite contrary? You named her? She's not stuck to anything that anyone's gonna grab because she's underneath this,

the counter that's on the back of my house. You know the yard counter that I have? The counter where you like put out food when you have me and my family over? Yeah, but you know, the spider's underneath it and way down there and I- Hey, I'm coming over and I'm bringing the spider killer and I'm gonna bring my son and we're gonna film it.

Well I was afraid that Jade was gonna get up there. Yeah you could kill your dog. All right so to be honest I didn't name the spider and I intended to kill the spider but I was afraid because I didn't have anything and it was kinda, it was, I have to squat down and then there's like a electrical box and then a little three inch gap and then there's the wall and she was dangling in that three inch gap.

So I was like I'm gonna go get a broom and I'm gonna jam that spider to death. I'm gonna jam it to death. I didn't know spider spray existed so I was gonna jam it to death but I knew that the chances of it running away were very high. You gotta assume that this is a thing know spider spray existed, so I was gonna jam it to death, but I knew that the chances of it running away were very high. You gotta assume that this is a thing, spider spray.

Yeah, okay. But you got a broom. I didn't, and then when I was walking. I didn't want that to happen. That's why I didn't want it to happen. When I was walking to the broom, I got, it's a long ways to my broom. By the time I got in the broom,

I didn't know why I was going for the broom. I'd forgotten. And then I remembered a couple of times, including right now, that I never did anything about Mary. You don't, because Mary is having babies. That's what she does. Oh gosh. Little egg sack full of little poisonous black widows that can infect your dog and your children.

I need you to come over with that spider spray. Okay, glad to. Because I'm not gonna buy, I don't like having that stuff around. I don't believe in it. I think it's violent. I think it's wrong. So I'm not gonna buy, I don't like having that stuff around. I don't believe in it, I think it's violent, I think it's wrong, so I'm not gonna own it, but I'd like for you to bring some over and kill this spider. The reason I have no guilt associated with this

is because that spider does not have the nervous system capable of contextualizing suffering, and therefore doesn't have the ability to experience suffering in the way that you do and you then project onto a spider because you've seen movies like Charlotte's Web where the spider can talk. Well that spider was animated

and that spider was voiced by a person and it was a story written not by a spider but by a person, okay? E.B. White. Exactly. You think E.B. White's a frickin' spider? No, it's a person. E.B. White. Exactly. You think E.B. White's a frickin' spider? No, it's a person. E.B. White Widow.

Um, so yeah, and I just think that there's something intrinsically okay with the human instinct to eliminate a threat, especially a tiny little threat that packs such a punch, and I don't think there's anything wrong with watching it die. Let's not undersell the threat, but let's unpack it a little bit. One time, I think I recently told you this story,

but I don't think I told it to anyone else, so now I will. Tell it, real. I remember, and you tell me if I told you this, I remember one time I was sitting in my nanny's yard with my nanny, because my nanny would often take her chairs out into the yard and we would just sit in the yard. Sitting in a yard was something that used to happen. Doesn't happen anymore, it should happen again.

People should sit in their yards. Like there was a big pecan tree. And we'd sit underneath that and just sit. Yeah. And talk. And let pecans drop into your mouth like raindrops. Like grapes being fed to a king. Right. One time I struck up a conversation with Nanny

because what else are we gonna do? We're sitting under a tree. I said, Nanny, tell me some of the last words that your relatives said before they died. I remember asking her this. How old were you? I was pretty young, I was probably like Lando's age, like nine-ish, because I distinctly remember it

and I was inquisitive. What a morbid thought. I just thought it'd be a fun thing. Was she related to any spiders? It was interesting that she actually remembered a number of family members' last words. But the only one that I distinctly remember is one that wasn't words at all because she said, and of course, my great uncle so and so, so and so,

he died on the toilet. Well, it was actually an outhouse. He got bit on the butt by a black widow spider. And it killed him. You would think you would be especially prone to killing black widows because in like, Me? To like avenge your family.

Or her great great uncle. I never met him and I don't even know what his last words were. His blood. They would probably be like, oh I think I just got bit by a spider. His blood runs in your veins. That's true. Well, the blood of his,

I mean like father I guess does if he's your veins. That's true. Well, the blood of his, like father, I guess, does, if he's your uncle. Yeah, somewhere up there. The blood in his butt runs through my veins. Right, and that butt that was bitten by a black widow, that now is just sitting there enjoying the fruits of your backyard. How does a black widow kill a human? With the venom?

Like, how specifically? And first of all, I don't think. I don't know that it, is that even true? With the venom? Like how specifically? And first of all, I don't think. I don't know that it, is that even true? Am I nanny lying to me? I think it's unlikely that you die from a black widow bite, but it definitely guarantees a pretty bad weekend. What do you find in here?

Signs and symptoms of black widow spider bite, muscle cramps and spasms that start near the bite and then spread and increase in severity in six to 12 hours. Chills, fever, nausea, vomiting, sweating, severe belly, back or chest pain, headache, stupor, restlessness, or shock. Spider bite. How long does it take to a black widow bite to kill you?

If a black widow spider bites a person, do not panic. No one in the United States has died from a black widow spider bite in over 10 years. Yep, but my great great uncle back in the outhouse days. Famous, he's famous for that, he's famous for dying. Very often the black widow will not inject any venom into the bite, no serious symptoms develop.

Wash the wound well with soap and water to help prevent infection. So what I'm kinda getting at here. The same thing about that in there about before it bites you kill it with a spider spray? Because that's what I would add to the wikiHow. I'm sorry, I know I've upset you. A black widow spider bite is said to feel like a pinprick, although victims may not realize they have been bitten.

Most common localized symptoms of a black widow spider include immediate pain, burning, swelling, and redness around the bite. Basically, it seems that it's not even that painful, not even that much of a threat. So, I don't know, Rhett, maybe we should just let them dangle. I understand the argument that we're encroaching

on their ecosystem. I mean, you can, if you stretch that argument to its logical end, though, I'm also an can, if you stretch that argument to its logical end though, I'm also an animal and I decided to live here, so, but anyway. I'm not talking about eliminating all spiders. I understand they're an important part of the local ecosystem, but the spiders

that have gotten the bright idea to attach to my house, that's where it ends. I'm not talking about going out into the world and seeking out black widows like some sort of superhero that just, he's called Spider-Man, but he's just a guy who kills spiders and he has a copyright problem. Like there's a trademark issue because every time

he tries to make a movie about himself or whatever, people get confused and they think it's the Marvel Spider-Man and he's like no, I'm just the guy who kills spiders. Maybe I should be called the spider guy but that doesn't sound like a great superhero. I'm not advocating for that potential thing. I'm just saying I'm gonna kill him if they threaten me. Here's another family.

Here's another fact. Black widow spider bites rarely kill people but especially for kids, it's important to get medical attention as soon as you can because they can make you very sick. Very sick. Like the symptoms that I already talked about. I don't want my kids to be very sick.

Well hook me up with that spray, I'm gonna go for it. Okay, all right, see. A convert. I'm a closeted convert, I wouldn't say that publicly. Okay. Let's get into something a little less morbid. Wherever you're going, you better believe American Express

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or your car in traffic? Well, for us, and I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Animate! Hi, I'm for us, and I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Anime! Hi, I'm Nick Friedman. I'm Lee Alec Murray. And I'm Leah President. And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents The Anime Effect.

It's a weekly news show. With the best celebrity guests. And hot takes galore. So join us every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. Again, Ashley said, on a weekend camping trip, I took no pictures.

It was nice to be away from my phone, but I'm sad I don't have any photo memories to look back at. How do I decide if it's better to snap photos versus live in the moment phone free? Well, actually tomorrow as we're recording this, I'm leaving to take my youngest son on a camping trip, returning to Joshua Tree. Oh.

I wanted to take both of the children, but the oldest child. Didn't wanna be with you. No, he has basketball practice on Saturdays and the coach is pitching a fit about not missing any. How many other days a week does he have practice? Five, so there's six total. I mean, the way they do the high school sports now

is just, come on guys, it's not the only thing that matters. Like being able to go do something on the weekend with your parents, I don't understand why that, there's no value in that. I don't know, it's a little frustrating, but he's committed to it, so I want to honor that commitment. It actually makes me mad.

It makes me mad for you guys. I don't know, it's just, it doesn't seem like, really, you want, I mean, does it really boil down to, you wanna win so badly that you're driving these kids to practice six out of seven days a week? I think there's just a mentality about commitment. It's not unhealthy but leads to things that,

given the lifestyle that we live and the way we want our family to be, it becomes a bit of, it clashes. Like the fact that we didn't go. It's holding your family hostage. We didn't go home to North Carolina for Thanksgiving or Christmas last year because they were told if you miss the tournaments that we play over the holidays,

you will then be demoted on your team. That just doesn't seem right. I don't agree with it. I don't agree with it. What about this year? Are you not going home for Thanksgiving? This year we're going home for Christmas and we're just saying all right.

But you couldn't do Thanksgiving. Well. This year for the same reason? Well, we decided we're gonna do it for Christmas because it's gonna be a longer period of time and we didn't go back last year. But he's biting the bullet this year because it's just like, I mean, how much longer am I gonna be a longer period of time and we didn't go back last year. But he's biting the bullet this year because it's just like, I mean,

how much longer am I gonna be able to be in this family where as a family we go back to our visit? I don't know. That's not really what I wanted to get at. Okay, I'm sorry, you just kinda, we could do a whole podcast about the issues I have with the policy of the local high school basketball team. A coach setting up a standard that then immediately

infringes on the whole family's ability to play anything just seems, I don't know, it just makes me angry. Well, I'm on board with that. That's why I don't let my kids play sports. So me and Shepard are going. Me and Shepard are going and you know, interestingly, last time we went to Joshua Tree, the three of us, because Locke went,

it was not during basketball season. One of the things that I remember most about that trip was the pictures. Do you mean you remember the trip to the extent that you do because you took pictures which you've seen since then? The way back into that memory is often easiest in the form of revisiting the pictures.

Which I also put on Instagram because I thought that, I took some really good pictures. And I thought that you would be, shout out to RedMC on Instagram, I thought you I took some really good pictures. And I thought that you would be, shout out to RedMC on Instagram, I thought you would be impressed with my photo taking ability. We can come back. What I was really trying to communicate.

Let's come back to the Instagram thing. What I wanted you to think that I think that you would think was that I was just a good father. But what I really wanted you to think was that, oh, he's a really good photographer. He's a great father but what I really wanted you to think was that oh he's a really good photographer. He's a great father and a great photographer. He's a photographer. That didn't come out right.

So I guess to bring it full circle, if I get my way then the coach won't assist that you can't take your kids places so then you can boost your Instagram cred. Like you know, I'm fighting for you over here. No, it was great. It was a great trip. Let me ask this.

I'm just saying that the pictures were a great way back into it. But I'm gonna table the Instagram thing for a second because that's another facet to this argument. But my first question is, are your memories of your previous Joshua Tree trip directly associated with things in the photos? Or is it just that it jogs your memory about other things

that you didn't take photos of? I'm actually curious if you lose all of the above. For instance. Because at a certain point. I took a picture of Shepard and Locke. I don't believe that this one, I think there is one of these. It doesn't matter.

Yeah, you can show it now. No, but I'm saying that there are. You're trying to promote your Instagram. No, no, no, I'm not, no. What I'm using as Instagram is I'm saying, I'm actually more likely to see the pictures that I posted to Instagram rather than the pictures that are on my camera roll because my camera roll

has so many pictures. Yeah. So I've looked at my old Instagram feed more than I go back and look at all the pictures from Joshua Tree but one of the pictures was, I think either me or Shepard or Locke, it's on a giant rock meditating and we hiked to this spot and me and Shepard will do this again

because it was one of my favorite spots. All of Joshua Tree has those giant awesome house-sized rocks that you can just so easily climb on top of, but we climbed on three rocks and we were probably like 50 to 75 yards apart from each other in a triangle and we were all meditating. And I took pictures of us each. And just the picture of one of us on that rock

takes me back to that really special memory, which I remember in its entirety, or at least as much as has been retained, is like, that was just a really cool moment. Like we literally just sat there in silence, taking in nature for 10 minutes or so. I think that in a lot of situations though, at a certain point, you only remember the things that,

you know, we know you only remember the things that you have remembered, like remembering shapes the memory. Accessing, yeah. Accessing overwrites. And you're most likely to remember the things that you've taken photos of, the things that are just related to it

you might lose earlier, because there's nothing that's gonna prompt that specifically, at least in theory. So that's an argument for taking more pictures, right? But there's also an argument for taking none, like she seemed to imply that she didn't bring her phone at all and you know, we wanna applaud that

because to be away from your phone has got to be, that's gotta be rejuvenating on some. Without a doubt. Brain and physical level. How about this? So getting rid of the phone entirely was probably a good thing. She just happened to get rid of her camera at the same time

because it was in the phone. Well how about this situation specifically? Because I think that this is maybe a little bit, a more specific scenario where I have a stronger opinion, where it just seems clear in my mind. I like to watch professional golf on television, the most boring thing that you can choose to do. I understand it doesn't appeal to everyone.

I'm immediately picturing you taking pictures of the screen as you're watching golf because I don't know where you're going with this. And if you watch a golf gallery, which is the audience watching, who's following around the players. If you go back to 19, if you go back to the year 2000, definitely, and you look at pictures of like Tiger Woods

getting ready to putt or something, and you look at the gallery behind him, everyone would just be standing there looking at Tiger Woods. Yeah, okay. If you go back to this year, and you see Tiger Woods putting at the Masters or whatever, you will see that seven out of 10 people

have their phone up. Some of those people are looking at Tiger in real life but then pointing their phone at him and some people are literally just looking at their image that they're gathering of him in the moment. Now, here's the deal. This seems asinine to me because you know what else is happening while you're filming Tiger Woods?

The freaking network that is documenting him playing golf is filming it much more clearly than you are and also broadcasting it. You can go back to that moment through the wonder of network television at any time. You think you're gonna go back and look at your little dinky little camera, vertically filmed camera image and be like, that's where I was.

Well, yeah, I definitely don't understand like this. Just watch Tiger Woods play golf, man. I don't understand taking video of things. You're at an event as a spectator, and especially with something like that where there's only key moments. There's 18 times this guy's driving off the tee. It's one thing to be like, here comes Tiger,

and I went to the Wachovia, remember Wachovia, the bank? They had a championship, I don't know if they still have it, in Charlotte, and my dad and I positioned ourselves on the tee, right next to the tee box, like we were as close to where the golfer was gonna come up. Tiger Woods comes up, hits a drive right in front of us. This was before anyone was filming anything with phones, so I just watched it happen, it was amazing.

Do you remember it? Yes, I remember it, it's in my mind. Now, it would've been one thing that as Tiger's coming up, like pull out my phone and snap a little picture of him and then put it back, it's the people who are literally videoing everything that's happening while it's happening in front of them. That makes me mad.

Knowing that, yeah, yeah, it's like, are you really gonna watch that back? I'm, so. That's one end of the spectrum. That's why a picture's so great is that it's a moment in time, it's a snapshot of reality, quite literally, you know? But then it's over and you can be in the moment. Again, I think if you have such an attachment to your phone

that you can't really enjoy camping, then I think you should get rid of the phone. But we may be reaching a conclusion where you should bring some other type of camera, which could be weird. Like what if you go retro though? That's kind of fun. You're going camping, it's rustic,

why don't you take one of those disposable things and just take that roll and then develop it and then take pictures of those developed image, scan them. So then you, cause you gotta have it digitally. Okay that's one solution. Seems like a cumbersome solution. I just came up with that. It's like this retro rustic photography thing.

I like that idea, that could be fun. But that's. You should do that. But that. Take a disposable camera and don't take your phone. Now that feels like a potential cool sort of temporary solution. Now, I keep getting, let me just say, I keep getting the sense that we've talked about this before

either on Ear Biscuits or something else, but you know what, I'm gonna trudge through. If we have, it's a good test, because, Do you remember it? Did you take a picture? If we took a it's a good test. Do you remember it? Did you take a picture? If we took a picture of it, then that means that it didn't even help us remember it. Right.

And this whole conversation is null and void for two reasons, because we've had it and we were wrong about it. Why can't two dudes talk about the same thing again? Maybe their minds have changed. That is the other test, have our minds changed. I have a system, but go ahead. I wanna come back to your system.

You like this system? I think this is a fine system, but let me just quickly, just for the sake of understanding all the places that this could go, can we just fast forward to the distant future? Maybe the not so distant future, because you could technically do this now but it would be a cumbersome life choice.

So just like security systems howls, they're recording constantly and it's just being held on a hard drive, this would be like, let's just say in your brain, like you'd be able to access. Well, I think you fast forwarded even, you fast forwarded so far into the distant future where now. You're just gonna say

the future. So okay, okay. If it were glasses. Hold on, let's do both, let's do both. I could wear a Nest Cam on my glasses. That's exactly what I'm getting at. I'm saying you've got a pair of glasses that are fashionable, they don't look like Google Glass.

They're like, oh, those are just glasses, like what Link has on. Constantly recording. Whatever is very in fashion. Like a traffic cam. And sending it to a hard- Cloud-based server. Cloud-based server that then is just like,

and first of all, I know there's a movie about this, at least one movie about this, and I can't remember what it's called. We may have made it and forgotten it. But essentially, you can go back and you can access any of your memories from the perspective that you were in. Minority report. Basically the sound and the audio of that.

At that point, everyone's basically just gonna, I don't know, that's gonna be a weird time if we get to that point with the evolution of technology. But you kinda fast forwarded beyond that, which is an even more interesting place, which is not only is it being stored on a cloud-based system but it's the interface between your brain and the cloud-based system is so seamless

that going back into the memory feels like just reliving the memory. So every sensation, not just the sight and the sound but also the feel and your emotions and everything. Now, there's also a book, I think it was a rec, in effect, way back by Blake Crouch, one of my favorite writers, Recursion, where he plays around with this concept of memory

and being able to enter back into a memory. And basically the underlying philosophy of the book is that the only thing we really consist of is memory, right? That's kind of all that we've got is this timeline that we've sort of recorded. I don't understand what about the present, the nowness? Like you've got now.

Well. And you've got an aspiration to the future. Right but. You've actually got a lot of things. Yeah I know, I'm just throwing all the, there's just a lot to this argument. But I guess we can just zoom back in on the present day because we don't have that technology.

Well in the future. In the future it will be a moot point. I think it but. You won't be making that decision. I think if you could have constant access to everything that's happened to you in pristine, probably POV vantage point, I don't think it will be healthy.

I just don't think it would be healthy to have it. I think it would just, it doesn't, it seems like it would work for like in court. You know, it's like, it's very. No, but think about it. Because it starts getting wild because if we can get to a place where the. Living in the past is not healthy.

The interface, yeah, but hold on. This isn't about living in the past. If the interface is seamless, then if I can have the experience of going to Joshua Tree, without even going to Joshua Tree, and I'm not talking about virtual reality, I'm talking about a literal, the experience is being piped into my brain, at that point, photos, it's just like, we just gotta send one person

to Joshua Tree, have them do everything while wearing the interface, and then if I can have the exact same experience, why am I gonna get in the car and drive? Yeah, that's convenient but I'm just saying, you're proving my point that doesn't seem healthy either specifically so in general this whole thing. I don't think we're ever gonna get to that point. Even with technology and the way that it's advancing,

I think there's just too many limitations. Okay. But if we reel it back to the day, I'll try to make it simple because I think I'm adopting a practice that is my answer to this. I've never articulated it so as I try to do that, let's see if it holds up. I think there's a balance between, you know,

this is kind of a middle of the road thing which may seem obvious but there's a balance between, you know, this is kind of a middle of the road thing, which may seem obvious, but there's a balance between not taking any photos, taking too many photos. So I think the goal is to know how to take just the right amount of photos. And I'll be more specific. I think if there's any moment, and I believe that, I try to make my goal, especially when I've made plans

to do something that's event based, it's like, well, when I'm in it, I really want make my goal, especially when I've made plans to do something that's event based, it's like, well, when I'm in it, I really want to appreciate it, to be in that moment and savor it for all that it is. And then I've noticed that if I do that, and if I recall that intention, and I start to really appreciate the moment, that then if I add a little brain trigger to that conclusion

that oh yeah, I am in the moment, that like at some point around here in time, I'm gonna snap a photo in order to help me remember a moment when I was in the moment. Now I don't wanna be- It's actually almost a way to signify that this moment is worth being in. Yeah, but not dropping what I'm doing

in order to get the perfect frame or something right now, but just saying I'm making a mental note that like at the right time, maybe when the height of this moment has passed, I will snap a picture to commemorate it. Or if I can snap a photo and then still and put my phone back away and still be in the moment, I'm gonna do that. As opposed to making the moment,

trying to capture the moment, which incidentally, I'm sure you've seen this, but if you live in Los Angeles and you go to any place, you will see, it's usually a couple and it's usually a couple, and it's usually, this is definitely a generalization, so let me just say, in my experience, eight out of 10 times, there is a woman who is on the attractive side, and she is doing something, and her boyfriend or husband has a camera

and is being forced to sit there and take 100 pictures of her doing something for her Instagram. He forces her, she forces him to take a photo or five, then she comes and looks at him, give notes. And then she goes back to where she was. That happens five more times. And this is, okay, I think we are both in agreement that this is way out of bounds.

I understand that maybe Instagramming is your career, but good luck. That doesn't apply, yeah. If you're a model or an Instagram person. That is outside of the realm of being in the moment because the moment has become about you getting the moment, not for yourself, but for accolades, admiration that you're gonna get on Instagram. Now, so guys, I don't know that you did this,

but if you're doing this meditation on the rocks, and it's like, wow, this is an amazing moment, I'm gonna put, the way that I'm saying you would do that is you would just pull out a phone, I'd look out of the corner of my eye, I'd see my son over there on a meditation rock, I'd pull out my phone, I'd take a snapshot, and then I'd put it back away and I'd keep meditating.

It wouldn't become like, let me figure out how to take the next 20 minutes to make this the best Instagram post. Oh, in that moment, that's exactly what I did. There were a couple of other moments where we were hiking and we hiked into this cave and then we realized that there was a really cool opening into the sky and we took, I'd say we stopped and we took like two minutes

getting like Shepard like set up in this cave to like take this picture. But it wasn't this like everything is stopping for an extended period of time. It was like oh this is a cool photo op. This is, let's capture this moment in a stylistic way. All that to say, the way that I did it last time, I do not feel like I ever made it about the photos

to the extent that I lost the ability to be in the moment. I feel like I was in what I would say is my sweet spot, which is what I plan to do, but I do think that there are times when a conscious choice to be like, I'm not gonna take any photos. Maybe when, and maybe when you're by yourself, like I know we both talked about potentially doing, and my therapist has been pushing me to do this for a while,

to take a solo trip somewhere. I've done a couple of times or whatever, but I feel like if I were to do something like that, there could have an extended period of time where it was like, I'm not taking any photos. No, I'm saying that everything that's worth doing, that's worth experiencing, if you find yourself truly experiencing it,

you're in a moment that then you should find the right way to as quickly as possible, take a snapshot, which will help solidify it. So it's not just a, you wanna take a mental picture, but just to mitigate. But what if you wanna completely, but what if you, for a, I think that's a fine general practice. Hold on, so here's

what I'm thinking, so like, whenever I'm doing something, like if I go camping, I'm like, you know what, I wanna take a picture that like helps me remember this whole thing, and then I don't wanna keep taking pictures, so I'm gonna, once we set up camp, I'm gonna walk over here and I'm gonna take a big picture of the campsite with as many people as I'm camping with in it. Yeah. But I know I'm not,

that's just for me if I look back through it, it's like, oh yeah, I remember that campsite. I remember this whole weekend. Yeah. And then if there's a moment within that like, oh, we found this waterfall or like we're sitting around the campfire and we're having this conversation, I'm gonna pull out and I'm gonna try to,

my phone and I'm gonna take like one picture and then I'll be like, you know what? I got it. Any of that memory that might be lost from not having a picture, I've now mitigated that risk, and I can be back in the moment, and then I put it away. Now, I think adding the factor of trying to put it on the internet,

it severely complicates things for me personally. Well, but you don't make that decision. You don't make that decision in a moment. Yes, you do because it's the difference between taking a photo to capture a moment for you and capturing something that looks good that people will like on the internet.

I don't think that there's, I don't think that that's a super- Composition. I don't think there's a huge delineation between those two. Posing. I think for most people, this might be because you're such a perfectionist and if you're gonna take something

for the purpose of display, you get too in your head about it and take too much time to make it right. It's like that woman who's making sure she gets, she wants to look exactly like she wants to look. And if you feel like you would be, like I honestly don't go to that place. It's just like I'm like, okay,

I wanna take a picture of this. Am I in exactly the right place to take the best picture of that? Probably not, but I'm not gonna take the time to figure that out. It's just when I frame it, I'll think about the rule of thirds and I'll take a visually pleasing shot.

And then I'll go back, when I get back home, and I'm like showing Jessie like, hey, here's what we did, here's the pictures. So she can kind of live vicariously through what it was like to go out. We don't let her out. No, she likes to get weekends by herself sometimes, and so that's what happens.

And then I will show those pictures and then I'll pick the best ones and be like, ah, I'll do a little photo set. And I haven't done that very often. I just did it with Joshua Tree specifically last year. When we were in Thailand and we were like touring those ancient ruins, me and my family, I do remember thinking like, oh, this is like,

we gotta get all the family here and this tour guide's gonna take our photo. And you know, I noticed that the kids are like, oh, this is like, we gotta get all the family here and this tour guide's gonna take our photo. And I noticed that the kids are like, oh, stop. You try to get them all posing. And even though they're always on their phones, they can't stop whatever they're doing to like perfectly pose for my picture. And I am thinking, I gotta have something

that like I could put as a fridge magnet. Like send back home to the extended family. You know, these are the trips that lead to the fridge magnets. And they're also the pictures that lead to the next trip. Right. Right. Because if you wanna, you know, interestingly, Jessie recently did something.

But it's gotta be a good picture. Jessie's good. She's good at taking pictures and she just uses her phone and then a little bit of whatever the editing stuff is and then she took, she went through a bunch of her pictures and then printed out several of them and put them in the bathroom that we redid.

And so like on the shelf that you can see while you're taking a crap, which I really like to have a good field of view when I'm taking a crap. You're going on vacation in your mind. I see these cool pictures that she's taken and she did, and it isn't like, it doesn't have us in them.

It's pictures that she took of things, so it almost, and they're all black and white, so it kinda looks like, oh, you just bought a picture. You bought a frame with a picture in it, but it's like, I know. And people visiting my bathroom may think, oh, they just have like cool nature slash building slash stock photography in this decorative place.

But I know, no, I remember that building that we went to in England and that ruin or whatever. And that's very meaningful for me, especially while defecating. It helps you act. It means a lot. I mean, the experiences that you had there and the meaning associated with that, it's a direct, it helps you access it.

That's why just putting the phone away when you're like having to go back to what you were saying there, I think that's the flip side of this coin that I'm not happy with yet, which is, I don't know, is there a healthy time to not take any photos? I do think, I think so. I question that.

Because okay, let me just paint a picture for you. You're on a solo trip. You've set aside a couple of days to be by yourself. Yeah. And you are becoming so one with nature that you begin to look down and you see these, this synthetic fabric on you, you're like, why do I have this, this isn't me.

You begin to strip your clothes off. What kind of trip are you on? Good question. You strip your clothing off, because you realize that that's not you, man. That ain't it, chief. Okay. You are your body.

Call me chief, I do like that. And you say, I don't want to be anything that wasn't here to begin with. I mean, you even take your wedding ring off. I mean, not because you're looking to get frisky, but because it's foreign. You take your glasses off, you can't see anymore. It doesn't matter.

You grab a leaf and you rub under your arms to get any remnants of deodorant off of you because you wanna be of nature with nature. And then you walk several miles away from the campsite with no regard as to what direction you're going because you want to be in it to win it. You get out there. You didn't bring your phone.

Unless you stuck it in a crevice of sorts. There's a moment. There's a moment out there where you're naked and you're one with nature where it's about you and your brain and the cosmos. And it's not about capturing it with some little dinky digital device that was invented 10 years ago.

Right or wrong? But you don't have a phone at that point. Look at that. I just took a picture of you because you're so worked up. I just feel like that's the moment and I don't want to forget. And I agree with your philosophy in general.

I'm just saying there are times when you gotta set it all aside. I think what you're saying is that isn't there something ironic about being in a moment so you're taking your phone out and taking a picture of it? Isn't that counter in the moment? Sometimes the moment is so great that it can't take the informality of taking out a phone.

Yeah, like the moment that your first child's being born or the second or the third. Like what's gonna happen when the aliens come? I think we're talking, the birth thing is a good one. Better than the aliens because. Well the babies look like aliens, especially at first. It's the filming of the whole birth. I mean that one's always just bum-fuzzled me

because it's a gross birth, man. I mean it's not even, I mean it is a beautiful thing, but yeah, but physically, it's a nasty kind of thing. But did you hear that? And so it's like why are you talking about filming that or taking photos of that? No, take photo of the result. But hold on, but GoPro just.

Pre and post photos. GoPro just came out with a VagCam though. Oh gosh. You know, GoPro 9. Then you just tell the baby to follow the light. Right, it just, you see. Follow the red blinking light. The doctor puts it on,

and then you see the whole thing that way. GoPro, not a sponsor. Yeah, they really wanna be now. I think in theory you could be right. There are moments so precious that bringing a camera phone, a phone camera, whatever it is, into the situation is gonna taint it. But that's not, that's few and far between.

That's the moment of birth, the moment of death. Moment of death. Well I kinda wanna be on camera when I die. Probably the moment of, I mean, don't get me started with sex tapes. Well. That'll get you in trouble, you know? So let's take them off the table, you know?

Again, pre and post. That's a different thing though. Pre, picture, post, picture. Again, I said don't get us started. I guess that, it sounds like you wanna make it another episode, okay, with popular. To sex tape or not to sex tape, that is the question. Oh gosh.

Maybe in 2020, with everything we're thinking about 2020, it could be the year. The Rhett and Link sex tape. That is, that'll put us on the map. We're not gonna try to go with the tape. We'll be able to sell more makeup than Jeffree Star and Shane Dawson. We'll be able to sell more makeup than Jeffree Star and Shane Dawson.

I think for most all situations that are, except for the exceptional ones that I just listed, I guess, be ready to take what you think are too few photos, but not zero photos. And I would say, while I agree with your philosophy, I think it is sound, my approach is probably a little bit less about just capturing it for the sake of your own memory and accessing the memory later.

It is that, but if you're gonna take the time to take a photo, take a nice photo that could be shared with the world. Okay, I'll add an addendum. But don't make that a prerequisite. And as a second point, there's nothing wrong with wanting to take some postable photos, but you just gotta know that that's most likely

gonna take more time and it's a trade off between being in the moment and being in this I'm creating something that will become a digital moment later. So you just gotta know that the clock is ticking whenever you decide I think this is the one. I'm on the edge of the Grand Canyon, my kids aren't that upset with me, we're gonna get the tour guide to be cooperative

and take a nice composed photo for me to put on my magnets and to put on Instagram. But I know that my clock is ticking every time I do that. And every single precipice of the Grand Canyon should not be us attempting to outdo the last one on Instagram. 100%. But here's where I differ with the specific thing that you just said.

And this might just be the difference in the way that our brains work. You seem like you want to make the decision before you snap the photo about where it's gonna go and what the purpose of the photo is. And I'm just saying, I wanna have a philosophy of capturing moments as I go, capturing them in not unreasonably aesthetically pleasing way,

but you know, reasonably pleasing. And then later on, when I get back home, in the privacy of my own bed or bathroom, I wanna go through my camera roll and make that decision. I don't wanna make, because if you have to bring that thought process into the moment, it ruins the moment. Well, I don't think there's one right answer.

I think that the key is in our difference of what takes us out of a moment and what keeps us from being able to get back in a moment. Yeah, I think it is important to say I'm highly sensitive. I'm like the experience version of a light sleeper. I must be a light experiencer because anything can knock me out of the orbit of a moment. Right.

You know, if you think about like literally being in a moment, you think about like trying to meditate and if a fly buzzes and it takes you all the way out of it. For me, I grab it with chopsticks. If a little fly buzzes, well this is not about being superior. No, I'm just saying.

Your tone seems to say that not only are we different, but I'm winning this. All I'm saying is Mr. Miyagi made it seem like it was a camera trick, but I can actually do it in person. So I need to look at myself and say, okay, I can get obsessive about trying to take so many photos to get the best one for the fridge magnet.

And at the end of the day, I could realize that I was never really experiencing it. And so I need to set ground rules for myself. So those may be different for you because of what puts you in a moment and takes you out of it. The only thing I'm asking, because I think that this could bring, I'm not asking you to do my technique.

I'm just saying that doesn't your technique still work if you take the moment of decision about Instagram out of that moment and just save it for later? And just be like, I'm just gonna, so do your thing. So you're saying just take a bunch, then to me the application is you're taking a bunch more pictures. No, no, no, no, you're not listening to what I'm saying.

Take the exact amount of photos that you were planning on taking, take the exact amount of time to take them and to consider them that you're planning on taking. And then when you get back home, see if anything qualifies. It doesn't work. This morning, I put into practice what I'm talking about. How does that not work?

And I'll tell you why it don't work. I got up, I was drinking my coffee, it was early. Sitting there all alone, no one was stirring. Then all of a sudden, somebody was stirring. So Lando comes around the corner, he wakes up, it's like a half hour early and he normally wakes up. He came and he sat down next to me on the couch with his blanket and like,

so I was drinking my coffee and he was like snuggled up to me, it was a nice moment. And he may have pulled out his, he's got this knitting loom and like he's, so he's knitting something or hand, it's like a, is it knitting, is that what it's called? Let's just say it is. I'm not familiar with it.

He's making something special for somebody. And I was like, you know what, this is a special moment. And I reached, I just took out my phone. I didn't say anything to him and I just took a selfie. And you know, it's not a good looking selfie. Matter of fact, I don't wanna show you the selfie now. In a normal Ear Biscuit, right now on the video version, we'd be showing the selfie, I'm not gonna do that.

Because I haven't even looked at it. It's probably not a flattering angle. But and it's a moment that meant something to me, but it's like, if I really thought that it, in order for that to be post-worthy, you gotta, I mean, I would've taken 12. In order to try to figure it out because you just can't slam out a selfie and it be amazing.

I mean, you've seen people, they take forever to get their chin pointed in the right direction. I just don't think you're being honest. No. You just can't, there's never seen snapping a shot to preserve a moment and snapping a shot that could mean something more like, you know, it's a lot more work. For me, I'm saying that it's a minimal amount more work.

But take me through your fridge magnets or your Instagram feed and show me which of those were just taken on a fluke. So I'm just saying. No, no, I'm saying. I'm having a realistic plan. It sounds like what you wanna do is, and again, it's your personality because it legitimately, listen, I'm your best friend.

I've known you for almost 40 years and I work with you every single day. I know how an interruption to the flow of whatever is happening disrupts, gets you upset. But I'm just also saying my photos are not good enough to be posted. No, no, what I'm just also saying my photos are not good enough to be posted. No, no, what I'm saying is that the extra 20 seconds

that I might take, like if the same exact thing happened to me, Shepard came up to me and began to knit. You're taking my photo. Here, right now, this is the moment. Yeah, so it might be like this, right? So he would come up, he'd be next to me. I'd be like, okay, well I gotta get that. No, we're doing ear biscuits,

I wanna get ear biscuits behind me, so there we go. So that would be it. So maybe I took seven seconds where you took one second. But what if I'm like, hold on, I blinked in that one. I'm just, I'm not. My eyes were closed. I'm saying I'm not gonna review it because I'm not taking it because I want to post it.

I'm taking it because I want it to become a candidate for anything that, I wanna be able to make that decision later. And I might look at it and be like, oh, I look horrible in that picture. I'm not posting that. But I might be like, oh, that really turned out well. The lighting was really good by happenstance,

not because, you know what I'm saying, oh I got lucky on that one, let's put that on the feed. That's all I'm saying, I don't, because I am like you, I don't want to think about social media while I'm out there. Do we agree on the number of photos that you should take? I probably have a higher tolerance for the number of photos that you should take? I probably have a higher tolerance for the amount of photos.

And I think that that's just whatever person's preferences. You can probably begin to feel when it feels, you get the sense that like, oh, I'm taking too many pictures. I don't feel grounded anymore. I don't feel like this is about the camping trip. I don't feel like this is about hanging out with my I don't feel like this is about hanging out with my kids. I feel like this has become about documenting it.

And what I'm saying is that, listen, there are people, I mean, we haven't even gotten into this, but there are people who do lifestyle vlogs, and I don't know, I mean, either they have, they've developed the art of being in the moment, but also capturing it. That sounds like a nightmare to me personally. But you also think about, you know,

I follow Jimmy Chin, the photographer who follows Alex Honnold around. And I mean this guy is taking amazing photos that obviously he's taking time to set up. But I don't get the sense that he's not in the moment. Well he's a photographer. He's also a photographer. His moment is capturing the moment.

Right, and I'm just saying, I just feel like you gotta know what your personal threshold is and if it feels like you've crossed over into making it about documentation versus experiment, I mean experience, that's gonna be a little bit different. Yeah. And it also applies to the people that you're with, right? So for instance, if we went camping together

and my frequency of photo taking was too high for your own personal comfort, then I would probably have to adjust that. Be like, why you taking so many damn pictures, man? Yeah. If you were to say that, then I would be like, all right, chief, I'll take less. So I just think you had, but I feel like,

back to the original question, it's interesting. I feel like you should have taken a disposable camera if you think that's a fun project, or take your phone but leave it in airport mode and just, you should have taken one photo. Or airplane mode, I mean, either one. Even one photo, you know what? Give it a shot next time.

Okay, I think we've answered some, I mean. No spiders were harmed in the making of this conversation. I did kill a gnat though and I'm not making that up. A very small gnat-like bug, what we would have called a gnat in North Carolina, landed on my hand. Never seen one in the Ear Biscuit Studios before, but I killed it immediately, just wanted you to know, and it's on the ground now.

It's your wreck, is that gonna be spider juice or what? No, I don't remember the brand, and I also don't wanna endorse it because, you know, listen, I don't wanna endorse killing spiders. I just wanted to encourage it. Is your wreck not killing a spider? No, my wreck is a hot sauce that I found. Well I guess my wife found it.

You know the Sweet Baby Ray's who won the best barbecue sauce taste test on GMM. We independently tasted like a bunch of popular brands. I don't remember that, it didn't take a photo. It was like bull, yeah, we took a lot. We took 24 per second actually. But there's Bullseye and some other brands that everybody recognized.

And Sweet Baby Ray's won, and I think Sweet Baby Ray's won pretty handily. And since then, I've actually been getting that, I've been getting that barbecue sauce and re-recognizing how good it is for just like a cheap bottom shelf barbecue sauce. That company now has a hot sauce and it is in the Louisiana hot sauce,

you know, like sweet and not too hot, but like really good on fried chicken and anything like hot but like really good on fried chicken and anything like that, like really good on eggs. Like a bright reddish orange sauce? Basically Texas Pete. We've been getting Texas Pete made in Winston-Salem, North Carolina forever.

Not made in Texas, I understand that. And I like that. I think you also are a fan of that hot sauce, right? Because it's got, there's something about that style of hot sauce because you can almost drink it. It's not super hot, but it just, it goes on a lot of different things. Sweet Baby Ray's is an upgrade.

What's it called? Hot Baby Ray's? It's just called Sweet Baby Ray's Hot Sauce, I think. And then I think it says new. But when you go to a restaurant in California, you usually are gonna get two different types of hot sauce. You're gonna get Cholula or Tapatio, right? Those are, that's what, that's what,

there's all these places. And I prefer Cholula over Tapatio. Yeah. But neither of those really has that like Louisiana-style red thing happening. And, uh. Well, I'll check it out. You gotta check it out. I'm gonna check it out. Put it on some eggs. has that like Louisiana style red thing happening. Hmm. And uh. Well I'll check it out.

You gotta check it out. I'm gonna check it out. Put it on some eggs. That's what I'm gonna tell you to do. Scramble up some eggs, some cheese eggs, put a little cheese in there. Sometimes I start with an onion, get some onions in there and then throw a little Sweet Baby Ray's hot sauce on it

and tell me what you think about it. Speaking of that, tell us what you think about this. Hashtag Ear Biscuits. This conversation can continue wherever hashtags are found. And we'll speak at you next week.