Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 13 Nice Peter - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: December 20, 2013

Peter Shukoff, known internet-wide as NicePeter and the co-creator of one of YouTube’s most popular series, Epic Rap Battles of History, sits down with Rhett & Link to discuss his childhood in an Irish dancing troupe, dropping out of school while on an Acid trip, the overwhelming success of ERB, and the nervous breakdown that success led to. *NOTE: This conversation contains adult themes and language. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Now it's time for an Ear Biscuit. A-N-D-L. Now it's time for an Ear Biscuit. Welcome to Ear Biscuits. I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we have Mr. Peter Shukoff, known internet-wide as Nice Peter.

He is the co-creator of one of YouTube's most popular series. Maybe you've heard of it. Epic Rap Battles of History. In our conversation, we get into clearing the air about the fact that we released our video entitled Epic Rap Battle a few months before Epic Rap Battles of History number one. Did we clear the air? We discussed it. Yeah. We discussed it. also chronicles the eight years of struggle before gaining traction on YouTube, including

performing in airport hangars, nursing homes, and McDonald's restaurants. And we get into the details of how he invented the Epic Rap Battles of History concept and how his success nearly led to a nervous breakdown. So we're going to get into that in a few minutes But, you know, we've recorded this a little bit in advance And as you are listening to this Rhett and I are both back in our homeland of North Carolina Celebrating the holidays with our loved ones I hope you're doing the same

Celebrating the holidays of your choosing With the people of your choosing No pressure, you know Just do what you can celebrating the holidays of your choosing with the people of your choosing um no pressure you know just just do what you can and uh we'll do what we can and this has kind of become our uh you know tradition a lot of people when you when you live in los angeles as we have done now for three years um a lot of people ask well so are you going home for the holidays? Because no one is home. That's the thing that you learn is that no one is home.

Out here. You meet a couple of people who were born and raised out here, but the vast majority of people go home for the holidays. And then we've heard, we've never experienced it, but we have heard that Los Angeles

becomes like a ghost town. There's nobody on the road. Tumbleweeds on the highways. Everyone just evacuates and goes home to their respective places across America and the world or whatever. So we. And then the elves come in. So when you come back to L.A. in the new year, there's wooden shoes at your bedside. For every person.

They leave wooden shoes for all of the Los Angelitos. Los Angelites? Angelinos. Angelinos. Yeah, not Angelitos. That's like a Taco Bell dish. Dish. The Angelito.

It's a tasty one. So what are we doing right now while on holiday, Rhett? Well, I like to take my time when I go back home to eat at the various places that I don't get to enjoy. Because, you know, me, I like to eat. It's one of my favorite things to do. I know you. So, I mean, one of the things that we do is we almost always have our first meal at Bojangles. You know, famous chicken and biscuits.

And because it's just not, you know, the interesting thing is you have told me recently that you like Popeyes or that you think Popeyes is like, yeah, it's pretty much like Bojangles. And I'm not saying I don't like Popeyes. It's a West Coast imitation. I don't think, I think that that, I don't know how they get that stuff up under the chicken skin like they do, but it is so good.

The red stuff. And they got a new sauce. Yeah, well, it's funny because I got a friend back in North Carolina that I'll be seeing while I'm back there, Lance. And Lance, good friend, and he likes to text. Lance is the voice of the director in the first Spanner commercial we made. Oh, he sure is, yeah. as of the director in the first Spanner commercial we made. Oh, he sure is, yeah.

So he texts me and he says things like, texts me a picture of this new sauce from Bojangles, like Bojangles has a special sauce. FYI, I start a new job next week. Like, it's like, you know. By the way, should have just been, and P.S., I start a job, is basically, the important thing is the sauce,

the less important thing is the rest of my life and my career. Yeah, and so I text back, I'm like, got to try that when we're home. What's the new position? So the first thing he says is like, yeah, it's kind of like a tangy honey mustard. And then he goes on to describe his new position, his new job, so.

Well, and you kind of reflected that. I told you, what are you going to do when you're going home? Presumably the answer is, well, Link, I'm going to spend quality time with my family that I haven't seen all year. And your answer is, I'm going to go to Bojangles and eat fried chicken and dip in the new sauce. I'll be with my parents. I mean- They'll be at the Bojangles? Yeah, they like it too. It'll be a family affair.

Now, what about you? Because you have- I've got a Bojangles too. Absolutely. I might see you there. Sadly, I have had a lot of my family members that have passed on. I don't have a lot of people left. There's pretty much just my parents and then wife's parents and brothers, sisters,

that kind of thing. But you, it's weird. I've got all types of living elderly people. You've got like a great, great, great grandfather that's still living. Yes, he's 182. And all he eats is bacon. That's right. No, but you seriously do have a lot of people.

Nana and Papa are doing pretty good. And my mom's mom, Nanny, is doing pretty good. We're going to spend lots of quality time with them. Let the great grandchildren get them in the holiday spirit. And your mom has a husband, and your dad has a husband. Your dad has a wife, and they are not each other. So, I mean, this is quite a situation that you go back home to. Oh, I'm like an itinerant.

I'm like a gypsy when I go home. It's like me, my wife, and my three kids, and we just like itinerant, moving from house to house, spending a little bit of time here, a little bit of time there. It's really exhausting. I'm not complaining. It's a blessing to have all of these loved ones to want to see us, but it's, I mean, it's exhausting. The one thing that we did to help simplify things this year I'm very excited about is we rented a car. Now, you know the GMM episode that I told you, it was probably last January, about how I borrowed my father-in-law's truck and I told the whole story about how I messed it up. Yeah, the Yukon.

I don't want to do a repeat of that. So I've rented a car. And so now we're going to be, we don't have to go through the logistics of car handoffs. When you have three children and there's five of you, I mean, it's a challenge to get picked up at the airport, get moved around. Yeah, you want to have your own transportation. It's weird when you become excited about renting a car. Oh, I love renting a car.

I feel like I got a new car. For a little while. Smells new. Sometimes. Sometimes it smells like the guy that was in there before you. Or smoke. Now, here's my one question for you. It's going to smell like Bojangles when you're done with it.

You go to all these different houses. Who has the best food? Where's the best food? Which house is that at? Every place has a signature dish. Really? We're going to Christy's parents' house first, and they, uh, Mr. Bobby, that's my father-in-law,

he fries these shrimp that he gets from the coast. You don't call him Mr. Bobby, do you? He wants me to call him Mr. Bobby, so I just, I don't, sometimes I call him that, but I think it's kind of weird, so I don't call him anything. You can't call him Bobby? I'm just like, hey! I just call him, like, hey! Would he be upset if you called him Bobby? Merry Christmas. I think so. You need, listen, you're a 35-year-old man. I don't, I. I just call him, hey. Would he be upset if you called him Bobby? Merry Christmas. I think so.

Listen, you're a 35 year old man. I don't need a lecture. This is the year. This is not about me. This is the year. This is about him, Rhett. You call him Bobby. When you see him, shake his hand and call him Bobby.

I'm just saying. Now you can move on. I can't do it. Call him Bobby. Do it. I can't do it because. Hey Bobby. It's not about me.

If it was about me, that's what I would do. But this is something that he thinks. He doesn't need to hold that over you, though. You're a 35-year-old man. It's a sign of respect. He calls older people Mr. and Mrs. So-and-so. Really? Yeah, he still does.

Well, you need to change that. So it's respecting your elders. Okay. So what does he make? What's the food? Fried shrimp. Mr. Bobby makes's respecting your elders. Okay. So what does he make? What's the food? Fried shrimp. Mr. Bobby makes fried shrimp.

Get over it. Guess what? Well. There's no getting around it. Is that the best food of all the relatives? Nanny makes great fried chicken.

My mom makes some country style steak that you can die for. Make you want to slap your mama unless if she made it you don't want to slap her.

Unless it's a thankful slap. My dad makes ribs. Because we only come home once a year, they all make something that's amazing. It doesn't even have to be related to Christmas. You got room for me in that rental car? How big is it? Is it an SUV? It's not that big.

You got a car seat for me? If you call me Mr. Link, then I'll take you anywhere you want to go. I'll call you Mr. Linky. All right, let's get to Mr. Nice Peter's conversation. His personal channel has over 2 million subscribers. That's Nice Peter. But his ERB channel that he shares with Epic Lloyd, co-creator of the series, has over 8.5 million subscribers.

And this series has garnered over 1 billion views. People, that's 1,000 million last time I checked. That's a lot of views. And there's been a lot of epic guests on the series, including Snoop Lion, Key and Peele. That's Snoop Dogg. And maybe somebody that you've heard of, Rhett and Link. Rhett and Link were on there.

They played the Ryan Brothers versus the Mario Brothers. Remember that? So here we go. Our time with Nice Beater. is just a Mario Brothers. Remember that. So here we go. Our time with Nice Beater.

I feel like I'm picking up on, I feel like the same guy that sat down at a lunch table with you guys. The same lost, lost person. So the first time we met at the first VidCon, you're having flashbacks to that right now?

I've been having flashbacks to that all day, yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. What's your memory of our first meeting? My memory of our first meeting is I had been watching and seeing you guys online for a while then. And I had gone through a dark period where instead of aspiring or being inspired by people, I was jealous. And I saw things and it was like,

why aren't I doing that? And I now look back and realize, well, cause I'm not, cause I wasn't doing it. It wasn't that I could, I don't know what I expected it for magically just to open up to me or something. I realized I had to create my own opportunities and create my own work and then I could do anything. But at the time, I was really lost with what I was doing. I was playing, I think just before a few months or weeks before that, I had been playing a show in Iowa, and the whole front row had their back to me. And I was just like, to me, I was trying so hard,

but I wasn't trying hard at the right things. So I saw you guys as two guys who were trying hard at the right things. We're definitely trying hard. I'm going to own that. There's a lot of trying involved. But that's a big difference from what I was doing. You tried to have a very popular and successful video on the Internet that focused on music and comedy.

And I was wondering, how come I don't have any very popular videos on the Internet that focus on music and comedy? But I wasn't really trying to do them. I was just wondering why I wasn't doing them you had you had a few picture songs that were floating out there at that point yeah I'd started to to gain a little momentum and I was starting and that's why it was such a great time to meet you guys because I was I was like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna I'm gonna do I'm going to do, I'm going to follow kind of this path of just like doing great work

and I saw you guys as guys who were already doing that and so it was just a cool time to me. Well it's interesting now the tables have turned because now we have to be jealous of the most successful musical series in the history of the internet. One of the most successful series if not the

in the history of the internet. I think that's series if not the in the history of the internet i think that's where maybe where i was lucky to have all that pent up uh like i for i for to all of a sudden for me to remove my own blinder of like the reason it's not happening because i'm not doing it and then i was like oh my god i gotta i gotta make up for this fast right it's my last chance i felt there was a lot of desperation. I was like, I was really broke. I was about to sign up for a job valet parking cars, which no insult to anyone that valet parks cars. But I knew that was kind of tragic.

I knew I had something better to offer and better to do. But that's just where I was. I was just desperate. And I think that desperation was really good for me to finally get an opportunity. And it was a very fateful conversation with Danny that changed my entire life. Danny Diamond. Danny Diamond. I sat down with Danny Diamond and he asked me pretty straight. He was like, why aren't you successful? I think you're talented. And I said, well, I'm working this job. I was working for a bakery delivering medicinal baked goods around town.

Okay. A little green bakery? A little green bakery. Okay, got it. That was my job, and I had to wake up at 9 and drive around until 4 p.m. What was it called? The Venice Cookie Company. They made excellent products.

They made vegan medicinal cookies, which no one was doing, gluten-free things. Okay, so they didn't have marijuana in them. They did. Oh. Yeah, that's the medicinal part. Yeah, that's the medicinal part. I was like, well, when she said vegan, I was like, well, hold on. No, they had ibuprofen in them.

Yeah, yeah. Aspirin-laced brownies. They had medicinal properties, also they tried to make a gourmet treat that wasn't like over sugared it was like these are for people

who want just the medicine they want to eat it they don't want to smoke it because that's bad for their health and it was I liked the company it was cool

but that was what I was doing from 9am to 4pm so by the time I got off 4pm it was hard to have that like extra energy reserve to really push myself creatively so I told that to Danny

he was like alright well that's ridiculous. So I'll give you a salary that matches that, and then you won't have that. So, all right, now why aren't you successful? Because I'm eating all the cookies. Because I'm eating all the cookies. No, as I said, well, my computer is just not,

I don't have the tools that I need. My computer is not, I'm not able to edit. Pro Tools is barely running. He was like, all right, I'll get you a new computer. Why aren't you successful? This is a good conversation. Yeah. And at what point did you start calling him Sugar Daddy?

I never did. It was a very casual thing. I barely knew who the guy was at the time. I had just joined, I don't even know if it was called Maker at that point. It was called The Station to me. I thought the Fine Brothers owned it, and I thought Danny was a janitor. He was this guy with a scraggly beard sitting in the back corner. Is he authorized to do this? Exactly. He was so mysterious. I didn't understand what he was. And then he was, he was really revealing to me what,

to me, what he does and what he does that's so different is he, he sees people, he believes in things without, there's like, there's nothing that's going to stop you. There's nothing that's going to stop me. There's nothing that's going to stop us. Everything is surmountable. So once he removed those two challenges, I said, well, I just feel like I need like some exposure to people. Like I think I feel like I can entertain any room that I get up in front of. If people are listening, I like that. I used to go to the post office and try to make the grumpy black ladies at the post office laugh because I thought they were the hardest people to make laugh in the world. Tough crowd.

Toughest. Yeah. And I would go there like, I'm going to make these, I'm going to crack this lady up. And I would do it. I'd be like, I can do this man no video cameras involved no video cameras just for you

just figuring out what do they need to feel entertained what kind of what kind of performance is gonna amuse these ladies and that's something I developed over the years

of just that could be a great web series though how to amuse grumpy black lady at the post office but he gave you an audience he gave me an audience he gave me an audience he put me in in some videos that were like just he just connected me with people he

connected me with casim he connected me with shay and he just yeah he just put me in front of people and he was like all right people are watching you got you got momentum you got your computer you don't have that day job why aren't you selling selling, you know, 25,000 songs a month? Right. And I was like, I guess it's because of me. I guess that's, you just removed everything that isn't me. I guess I'm the only person to blame. And that just did something to me.

The idea, I had stopped performing live and focused only on making videos. Okay. I was going to do a rap show, a live rap show with Lloyd and another one of our writers who played Einstein, Zach Sherwin and I had to pull out of it at the last second but they did it and one of their segments on stage

in this improvised rap show was to get suggestions from the audience and do a rap battle between those two people and so they'd get whatever, some Winston Churchill versus Marvin Gaye and improvise a freestyle freestyle, a rap battle. That is not easy to do.

Not easy to do at all. That would be amazing. Yeah, and they're both pretty good freestylers, though. And Lloyd came over to my apartment, and me and Lloyd just used to work on music. That was something we had in common. And we were working on something, maybe a rap song of his or something he told me about.

And I was like, how's the show going? And he said, oh, this segment's pretty cool where we get two people. And I was like, oh, that's really good. And I said, we should try something. We should lay something down. That's really cool. And we freestyled the battle between Michael J. Fox and Chucky from the movies. And it was horrible.

Like just the two of you? Just the two of us in my apartment. That's amazing. And it was horrible. It was really, really bad. But I just, I was like, this is so cool. And I was searching for every kind of format I could. That was part of my new, I was determined to make good videos and make popular videos

and make a living off of making videos. And I was like, I need things that are refillable. And like, picture songs are unsustainable. They're too hard to recreate. I don't know why because they're just weird magical moments that happen. But this, I was like, this is cool. And at Maker, I had these resource days

where I could get a camera guy and a green screen and get to use their production machine. I was really doing everything by myself at home. I was making all my videos in my bedroom, et cetera. But I got to use these days to work with their machine. And I was like, I'm going to use them on this. And that night I, I may or may not have had some vegan cookies. Uh, and I just saw this, this whole world of, of taking these two people and putting them in this mortal combat universe this like trans-dimensional universe and and having these

two people from history and and just going out and having this announcer that announcer came from the movie idiocracy you know in the rehabilitation scene where he's like i haven't seen it but oh my god it's amazing and they have this announcer and it's this otherworldly voice that comes from nowhere and that that i was like and it's got to have an announcer. And I don't know. I told the idea. And we were going to do it. We were going around to different directors and didn't know where we were going to go. It almost got shot like in a grimy brick, you know, with like a grimy brick background.

I can see that. Not green screened, you know. And I got, for some reason, I got assigned to Dave McCary, who's now directing on Saturday Night Live, which I think is a testament to how talented he is. And I told him the idea, and he went, oh, yeah. And he got it. And not only did he get it, but then he took it another step further. So it was just this collaboration between me, Lloyd, and Dave.

And how did you pick the first one you did? The audience. Bill O'Reilly. Yeah, the audience did that. So you posted a vlog where you asked people. Yep, I posted a vlog and I asked people. I didn't call it Epic Rap Battle at that time. I went back and watched it and I was like,

we're going to do this incredible rap battle of history. So who do you want to see? And we got maybe 50 suggestions, maybe 100. And Bill O'Reilly versus John Lennon just stood out for me and Lloyd. I think it was like, I'm excited to play John Lennon, and Lloyd was excited to play Bill O'Reilly, and that Bill O'Reilly freakout video was really circulating. I was like, this is it. We're going to make fun of this video, so we're referencing the internet.

We're being self-aware. John Lennon is going to be cool, and John Lennon was originally going to be in that New York City t-shirt, and I remember Shea Carl was on Venice Beach, and I called Shea. I was like, hey, man, can you look in that New York City t-shirt. And I remember Shea Carl was on Venice Beach, and I called Shea. I was like, hey, man, can you look for a New York City t-shirt? And everybody at that time was so collaborative. We were all just so much in touch with each other's dreams and ambitions and aspirations and all working together. And it's not the same as that anymore. I don't think I could call Shea Carl and ask him, help me find a t-shirt for a costume.

I'm sure I could, but it's not that culture. It's not the same as that anymore. I don't think I could call Shade Carl and ask him, help me find a t-shirt for a costume. I'm sure I could, but it's just, it's not that culture. It's not that culture now. Well, and we want to come back to the, you know, what it's like to now have this series

that is so successful, and obviously it's, it's almost all your time, okay? Yeah. It's weird. But we want to go, we want to come back to that,

but we want to go all the way back to Little Peter. And by that, I don we want to come back to that, but we want to go all the way back to little Peter. And by that, I don't mean you're Peter. I mean. Sure. Young. Yeah.

Young. When you were born. Where were you born? Where were you born? I was born in Rochester, New York. Okay. It's cold there. It is cold.

Yeah. It's cold. Especially right now. But it's, it's, it's all right. It was, it was great. I lived on a dead end street. That was nice. Okay, who'd you grow up with?

Both your mom and dad, siblings? Mom and dad. I have an older brother. How old are? Five years. Okay. And that's it? You and the older brother?

That's it, yeah. Mom and dad. I had grandparents that were very cool. My grandparents on my father's side are from Russia. So they very cool. My grand, my grandparents on my father's side from, are from Russia. So they were, they were cool. They were friendlier than I remember my grandparents on my mother's side being as a child. And they lived in a greenhouse and my mother's parents lived in a white house. So they were my green, green grandma and my white grandma growing up. That's what you called them? That's what I called them. And, uh.

Green grandma? Green grandma and white grandma. And I, I find it, I wasn't raised with any knowledge of race. I remember being in like first or second grade and realizing that the fact that the person sitting next to me was a different color had deeper meaning than that. And I'm really grateful to my parents and my grandmother because of that. Because the rest of my family has that weird, like, not racism, but kind of like, kind of a those people kind of vibe, you know? Right, okay. Not derogatory. And I'm not being fair to them because they've all, the younger people of that generation have gotten rid of that.

But my grandparents, my grandmother's brothers and sisters had that classic I don't know that classic middle America like we're different and for some reason I was just raised without that completely I took a black girl to the prom actually a black girl took me to the prom my parents didn't bat an eyelash at it

they didn't even it wasn't even they didn't even go out of their way to say this is okay with us it just wasn't an issue yeah they didn't even talk about it didn't even talk about it it wasn't even weird

and I'm always grateful for that is it true once you go black you never go back i i know that's not true i've met your yeah it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't true in this case but it was white i don't know if you're still dating her but i am yeah okay that has been that has been tricky with uh with what i do it's everything's been tricky dating a white girl dating a white girl no but uh so i grew up up just with, I think, an open mind, and I was encouraged by my parents to be creative, and we took piano lessons. Were they musical people?

No. There's not a, no. There's no. What do they do? They're both lawyers. Really? Yeah. Are they still together?

Yeah. Yeah, they're actually coming out here to visit for Christmas, and they've never been out. Really? Yeah, never been out to visit. Two lawyers married all these years. Yep. Wow, there is hope in this world. I know.

But they thought that for whatever reason that you should be exposed to music. Yeah, we had a piano. Or were you self-motivated? Were you like, I want to learn to play piano? No kid says, I want to learn to play piano, right? I was making songs on my teeth when I was a kid. And I know how weird that sounds, but I would sit in the car and like, and just tap out my teeth. Well, they make different pitches, I guess.

They make different pitches. And I just, since I was a kid, I've been messing with anything that makes noise to translate things that I hear that are just simple, just little, you know? And so that was something I always did. I don't, I think it was all more, I was more interested in attention and acceptance than I was in like musical knowledge. I think I found, I felt left out and strange as a kid, as a young kid for whatever reason or for.

What were the reasons? Left out of what school like friends yeah i think friends and just like i don't know i just always felt strange and i think part of those reasons are things i'm still discovering about myself and things i'm still understanding things i'm maybe not not ready to like on microphones, but I just, for whatever reason, I felt always different, and I felt always, and not necessarily in a good way, I felt like I didn't belong, and I felt like I didn't fit in, and I felt just, yeah, just like,

I felt like everyone was going to laugh at me or make fun of me, and so I, very early on, was like, I'm going to do this on purpose. So I'm going to, if people are So I'm going to feel comfortable feeling left out because I'm just going to turn into a thing of I'm performing. I'm making people laugh, and that way I'm controlling how I might get. So kind of a class clown scenario. Kind of. Are we talking grade school, like that young?

Yeah, yeah. Do you remember anything that you did, like strip naked and run through the school? No, not really. I was just always aware. I can remember being aware at a young age of just how people react and just like reading people and seeing where I can push lines and seeing where I can get laughs out of people or get amusement out of people, get attention from people.

I was just hooked on attention, and I was hooked on approval, probably to a potentially damaging level. But it is the kind of thing that kind of propels you into a career in entertainment. It does. I never expected to be successful ever. I always expected myself to be the guy that people thought, oh, that guy could have been something. And that was something I carried into my thirties. You know, I'm 30, I'm 34 years old right now. And at 31, I was that guy. I was like, that guy could have been something, but he kind of just kind of fizzled up. And the girl I was dating at the time kind of was starting to ask me questions like, so what are you really going to do? And that was disheartening. So even back then you had that sense, did you

get in trouble a lot for being the center of attention type of thing? Yeah. I mean, I got in trouble with my mom a lot. I was constantly, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. I was constantly, I grew up in an Irish dancing troupe. What?

Yeah. When I was six years old, I got tricked into joining an Irish dancing troupe because my mother told me my cousin was going to join it and my cousin didn't end up joining it but

this other dude did and for 2 dudes in an Irish dancing troupe is rare so more dudes joined the Irish dancing troupe

so we we had a dude heavy Irish dancing group it was like 12 guys and is this this is like the dancing when the, when the arms are straight down. I was in a kilt and all.

Like rain dance sort of situation, right? River, river dance. So it's all in the legs. It's all in the legs. And that haunts me to this day. I can,

I can move my feet like James Brown, but I dance like a brick up top. And so I grew, I grew up in that environment of school was like school but then my life was in this Irish dancing thing and I went to classes and that was where I felt the most like I belonged to a group

and also the most left out I felt weird I don't know why I just felt like I didn't really belong to this group but I could belong as long as I was funny and so that was something I just felt like I didn't really belong to this group, but I could belong as long as I was funny. And so that was something I just started. And I was lucky, man. Some of these guys have the best laugh in the world. This guy, Tim, I just saw him. He's got the best laugh in the world. And I think if I hadn't been friends with him as a younger kid, I don't think I'd be doing what I did today. So you're keeping in touch with the Irish dance troupe? Yeah. I think

more than my high school acquaintances. Are they still touring? No, I mean, a lot of them have kids and stuff. But the troops are still going. So that got, I didn't have stage fright ever. Because when I was eight, I was in front of my third grade class in a kilt dancing at my elementary school. Yeah, that'll knock the dust off you. Inhibition, I guess.

And all of March, we would go into nursing homes and perform in shopping malls. Those are good crowds, nursing homes. Great crowds.

We have performed in a nursing home. I'm not kidding. You remember that? No, in the band? No, like the youth group would go in there. Oh, yeah, like a

church thing. Yeah. It's good for society. They love it. They love it. It's a great crowd. I want to do more stuff like that of

just making people who really need to be entertained giving them some entertainment instead of the people who you know, I don't know. Darth Vader and at a nursing home. Exactly. They'll love it. So I just didn't have stage fright. I did feel weird about myself.

I was very motivated to learn how to be funny and I kept, I think I'm relatively smart and I just kept learning about how to entertain people. At the same time, were you thinking about, okay, because we talk about this, just where we're from. Yeah. We were being funny, but we didn't know that being funny could be a career. So there was never any, oh, this is what we're going to do for a living necessarily. It was like, we're going to get real jobs, but let's always be funny.

Were you thinking about what you were going to do at that time i i don't know i was always performing so i think so i think so because then just after that you know with a lack of stage fright and an ability to entertain people an ability to be funny i'd started doing plays and like getting more into it okay so i think i was always it was it was the only option for me ever and then in high school my friend ben he said man you've got to do something with this. If 20 years from now I don't see you on stuff, I don't see you on TV or something, I just don't know what I'll do to myself. I don't know how I'll feel.

I'll be so let down. So it was that conversation with Ben that got you off the dime. It was huge. I was in high school, and it was huge. It rung in my head. It allowed me to I've never been able to give up because of little things like that. So what did you do?

Anything I could. I discovered the guitar in my junior year in high school. Still in New York. Yeah. And I went to an arts high school, a public arts high school. So that was great. I got to be in musicals and plays and I was always, I look back sometimes at the hard time I gave our choreographers or our directors.

I was such a bossy little know-it-all, and I feel so bad, but then I feel like, oh, I might have actually known some stuff. I don't know. These instincts might have been there, and I might have known that that piece of choreography was stupid. Yeah, right. And it's not my place, but I still think I was right. She had us jumping up and down when we sang the final big note of a song. And it was like, we can't sing for jumping up and down. It's going to sound like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

And I put up a big fuss in front of this whole, I mean, who was I to do that as a junior in high school? You didn't get your way, though? No. You lost. I lost. Everyone was like, oh, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Yeah, and i thought it was so stupid kind of like a war chant exactly for a big note uh so i i don't know i feel like

i'm meandering a little bit you started playing guitar i started playing guitar because it was it's just a great way to get attention and acceptance and that i'm not i'm not gonna deny that that was my primary motivation i was was like, I like to make people laugh, and I like to have an approved, this is good for everyone attention exchange. You know what? I imagine you immediately moving into learning Queen covers and things like that. Oh, yeah.

I guess that's more piano-based, but... It was instantly to... The only reason I was learning the cards was so I could sing songs that people liked. And I wasn't even the lyric writer. I worked with another guy named Jason. He wrote all the lyrics. I wrote all the music.

And he was brilliant, man. He was a much better writer than I was. But this was all comedic songs at the time. All comedic songs. And all originals. Originals, yeah. We went right into originals. About what kind of stuff?

Poop, you know. Poop, masturbation, you know. Right. Classic junior year high school stuff. Our first song was called Dumpity Dump Dump. It had a key change, which I thought was great. Getting out that last turd you got. Yeah, yeah.

It was autobiographical. It was true. It was about a real guy. It was about a real scenario. Of pooping? Of pooping, yeah. What was the scenario? Jason walked in, and there was still a poop left in the toilet from this guy.

And it was so big. It was so unbelievable. It inspired this mythic story. With a key change. With a key change. It was such a big dump it needed a key change. Explain it properly. Oh, wow.

So lots of those. Lots of those type of songs. Yeah. That then you would just sing to friends. Just sing to friends, sing in lunchroom, sing to my Irish dancing troupe, you know, and sing in Nick Gajewski's barn. And just, he was the best dancer in the group. He started out, I got him into it late. He came in late and he quickly became the best.

Now he designs buildings that are energy, like self-sufficient. That was his thesis project. It was a self-sufficient that was his thesis project was a self-sustaining office building that's what he's doing yeah totally connected to irish dancing totally connect to irish dance but that was that irish dancing thing i gotta i gotta thank my mom for tricking me into that because that definitely put a serious trajectory on my life i was performing with abandon from a very young age in a group that encouraged and fostered my sense of humor. So what was the next point after the guitar and writing the funny songs on this trajectory of to where you are now? What was the next point on that? Yeah. Like what happened next that, you know, at some point you started doing standup. I don't know if you went to college.

When I went to college, I left my guitar at home the first year I went to college because I wasn't really a songwriter. What college? A state school in New York called Fredonia. It was whatever. It was whatever.

I think that's what their brochures say. Yeah. Fredonia. It's whatever. Whatever. And I went to school. I didn't take my guitar.

I wasn't really doing that. I was hanging out in dorms and going to parties and not really performing or doing anything like that. And I was going to become a teacher. I was going to become a history teacher. And so, which I find ironic now. Yeah. Wow. And, and then sophomore year, I auditioned for this improv troupe and I got in and I got my guitar back out and I started, started just performing. And we had, we had cool theaters once a month. It was like a 500 seat

theater. It was, it was actually a good college improv show. And we had cool theaters. Once a month, it was like a 500-seat theater. It was actually a good college improv show. And that changed my life again. So that was cool. So you broke out the fart songs. No, then I started getting deeper with the comedy songs. The first song I wrote of this new era in my life was about one of the cast members was leaving.

And so I wrote this really heartfelt song about her leaving, but it was funny. And that's, that's where I started to discover that voice of, of like talking about something that's real. I mean, the poop song was even real. Right. Yeah. It had some heart, had some poop, had some heart. Had some poop, had some heart. But now I started, I started learning how to write songs that dealt with emotions and dealt with feelings and, and just letting a feeling inspire. And then the writing process was so much easier than it said, like, what am I going to write about?

It was like, I have to write about this. I feel so much about this. I have to write, I'm going to use my abilities in, in melody construction and humor to, to, to make it more palatable to people.

But it was more of, I'm listening to this muse in my head. Got it. Uh, and that improv troupe. Yeah. I, the,

a lot of the older members left and me and two other members kind of became the creative directors of it and we started choreographing these big dance numbers and and it was great it was it was a so you you it was your influence that made it more of a musical musical thing because that's you know when you talk about stand-up which we want to hear about how you did that i know that there is a a... Well, improv. He's still my improv. Right. When we get to stand-up, though, you kind of carry that into stand-up. You're a musical comedian. That's something I didn't

really know, that you weren't a musician first and then kind of made it. When you started looking at music, it was for comedy. For comedy. And really, but it was for attention and approval. And when someone laughs, you know they like it. You know you did it right.

I don't have the balls to take silence as approval. And like, hmm, that was really good, man. That's not enough for me. I'm too hooked on like, ha, ha, ha. Okay, I know you like this. I can keep going. It keeps me fueled. It keeps me feeling good.

So what about after college? I dropped out of college and the improv troupe the guy who started that was going to start an improv theater out in Long Island in Riverhead Long Island

which if anyone is familiar with Riverhead Long Island it's a horrible place so you had not been there you thought this was like I went out to check it out I was like

this is great this is perfect it was a house a house with 14 people I lived in a room with two other guys it was a dream sounds like a commune it was a commune it was an I lived in a room with two other guys. It was a dream.

Sounds like a commune. It was a commune. It was an improv commune. The theater, when I was there, never got off the ground. And I spent one summer there. I learned how to wait tables. I learned. That was that.

I don't know if you ever had that depressing stretch in your life where you really learned guitar. You know, there's nothing else to do. Like really learn how to play the blues kind of thing? You learn how to play just stuff. You actually sit down with new charts and new chords and new fingerings and take your skills a step up instead of just like doodly doodly doodly doodly doodly doodly. Got it. I had been noodling. I learned Weezer's Blue album.

That was obviously very influential on me. I just learned how to play the guitar. And I don't think I've gotten much better since then. Now, you made a choice to drop out of college in order to do this. What did the parents say? I called my, I called my parents. I was on acid when I told them that I was dropping out of college. I don't know if that's something I should say here. That's not a euphemism. That's that you were literally, I was literally, does that make it easier? No, I was just already.

That just shows how seriously I was taking school. I was just not. I was failing out of school miserably. The only guy who let me get away with anything was my history teacher. And I think, I don't know why. I think because we had nice conversations if I would show up to class. But I was just failing everything. I had a 1.67 GPA, which I don't.

Kind of low. Rural low. I think that takes extra effort at Fredonia yeah and Fredonia is not exactly a place where people excel

anyway so I was just really doing bad so you're taking a lot of acid no or just occasionally I was smoking a lot of pot

I was smoking a lot of and then the occasional acid trip yeah it's your story it's my story well I'm trying to that's the other thing.

I used to be much more honest about talking about all this kind of stuff. And when I started making YouTube videos, I felt this responsibility that there were a lot of younger people watching me. And I felt like, I can't talk about this kind of stuff. Well, I mean, we want to hear the real story here. And I think people appreciate the real story of where you came from. People don't want to draw conclusions about the censored story. All right. Well, I was doing a lot of drugs, and I was doing a lot of drugs and staying in my room

a lot and just putting everything off. I was just looking at a lot of porn and smoking a lot of weed and not challenging myself, not pushing myself. And so the opportunity to do... All I cared about was performing. I didn't care about school. So I just dropped out and went to go perform and then i've had a pretty good track record of but hold on okay so i want to go back to the conversation with your parents what was the what was it like in that moment talking to your parents did it make it

like this is not really happening or kind of and i've kind of been in that days ever since of just not this is not really happening it makes it, and I've kind of been in that daze ever since of just not, this is not really happening. It makes it easier for me to deal with reality if it's just a little askew. Acid is just, it just encourages you to relax your guidelines of what's real and what's not. And you can sit here and imagine that base walking across the room and even see it in your brain. You can watch it walk across the room, but you know it's not real. Acid gives you a little push because you'll see this glass going, wobble, wobble, wobble, wobble, wobble.

And you're like, I know that's not moving, but I do see that. And I kind of dig it. Yeah, and you relax your inhibitions. Your suspension of belief just relaxes, and it encourages you to hear a tree breathing because you're like, I think I hear a tree breathing. And everyone around you is like, oh, my God, I hear a tree breathing too. And so you just go with that.

So you never had a bad trip. I did. No, later in life. Once I started to learn more about the anxieties and the dark parts of the world, I think acid is a great thing to do when you're young. When you're old, you know about bills. You know about poverty. You know about famine. You know about death.

And it's all you see. And it's like, and acid amplifies that. If you're stressed out in life or anxious in life and you try and take a drug like that to escape it, it's not,

it's going to backfire. It's going to enhance that. So, how did the call with the parents go at that point? You were, you know,

you were hearing trees breathe. I was hearing trees breathe. And you were like, I'm going to drop out of college. This is going to be great. I knew I was going to drop out of college. I was excited about it. I didn't like failing. I didn't like doing something I wasn't good at.

And I did feel stupid about myself just for not succeeding at something that I probably could if I put my mind to it. So I think my dad called me and was like, hey, I'm dropping out of school. You gotta go. And I think that's what it did. We just made the conversation very brief, very confident, and very, this is just what's happening.

And I think my dad understood. My dad, I think, dropped out of school at one point and went back later. My dad took charge of his own life. He enlisted in Vietnam, which I was like, that's always been wild to me, and I've always kind of admired that. So I think he got it. I think they both got it. That was one thing I'm grateful to my parents for. They never really, you know, when I was 31, I was like, hey, can I borrow 200 bucks?

My mattress from the garbage needs a pad because I was sleeping on a mattress that I found in the garbage. Even up until Dr. Seuss versus William Shakespeare was released, I was still sleeping on a mattress that I found in the garbage. Right. Even up until Dr. Seuss versus William Shakespeare was released, I was still sleeping on a mattress that I found in the garbage, which I always think is funny. Because at that point, I guess you had it.

I had it. You were sleeping on it. I was sleeping on it. I had it. I don't mind. If it ain't broke. Exactly. So I just dropped out of school flat

and I went out, but then I also dropped out of that and went back to my school town and I worked at an Applebee's you dropped out of the improv theater yeah I didn't feel it I didn't feel like it was going the right direction and that's something I yeah I think I mentioned I have a good inner sense of like this ain't gonna work I'm out yeah and sometimes you got to do that and so I was out and I went back to school. There was a girlfriend there. There were friends there. And I learned how to sing, and I learned how to make music.

But you didn't re-enroll. No. No, I worked at Applebee's. Okay, got it. That was also good. You just went back to the town. I just went back to the town. It was a cool town, a cool college town.

And we hung out, and I used to sit. It literally sounds like a dream to me, but it was my life for a while. I would just meet up with this group of people, sit in a field and drink a little bit, smoke a little bit and make up songs. And I would sing with this guy Greg who taught me how to harmonize and taught me

we would sit and do these vocal exercises where you're like alright let's hit the same pitch and then you go down just a little bit and we'll hear it warble. And you feel it in your bones that note is not right but it's what we're doing so it is right we're meaning to do it we're meaning to do it and i started to learn about harmony session yeah and i started to learn about like all this stuff and just okay and i started to really improvise songs and like sing boldly and and not know what i was

going to sing next but it didn't matter because't matter because it had momentum and people were laughing. My girlfriend at the time had this great laugh and she loved to listen to music and it was just a great time in my life. Then I left it all and moved to Chicago to follow another dream. What was this dream? Chicago is like the mecca of improv comedy. A couple of friends of mine who had written songs about leaving the cast of our college improv show had gone songs about leaving the cast of our college

improv show had gone out and they were like laying the foundation of moving to Chicago. So the three people that we were running that improv show, sort of the creative directors, all three of us moved out to Chicago together. Got an apartment together. And we all just started hitting the ground on the

improv scene in Chicago and joined ImprovOlympic and just started pursuing that. And then that became my world. And I was working at a restaurant during the day, lunch shifts, and just doing improv seven nights a week. And while you were doing that, what was the goal? What were you trying to accomplish? No idea.

I was just aimlessly following this thing in my head that Ben Hauser told me in high school that I had to be on TV or else I'd let him down. And he was like my best friend at the time. And, and he, him and I, for some reason, my friendship with him erased that, that feeling. I always had a like feeling left out and feeling like I didn't really connect with male friends. My best friend as a kid, it's just weird. There's something weird in there that I haven't even quite figured out, but I felt just weird and alienated. And with this friendship, I felt not like that. And so it was always in my head

to not let him down. And so I had to just keep, I don't know, I was just keeping going. People going to Second City to do comedy, I gotta go. People are, they're performing on Thursday night,

I gotta go. I gotta, who knows who I'll meet. You know, everything's possible. I have to do it. And so I was always doing it. And how long did this Chicago thing last? Until I met Lloyd.

I met Lloyd, was also out in Chicago in the improv team. He's my partner in the Rap Battles now. Sure. And we met at a party rapping on a back porch. You met rapping on a back porch. And you met rapping on the back porch at a party in Chicago. Yeah. So he was like doing a freestyle. Yeah.

There was a freestyle circle going on and I, and I joined it and I had, because of my experience in college, I had this boldness to just, right. Just say stuff. And I might not be able to get it to a rhyme, but if I sell it right,

it doesn't matter. You know, if you go I sell it, right, it doesn't matter. You know, if you go out with like, man, I don't know. I can't think of an example now. I'm so out of practice. But I just, I got a job with Lloyd's Touring Improv Troupe. And that's when I got my first taste of getting money for doing what I love. And I was hooked. I was like, I can't do anything but this.

This is great. And where were the tours? All around the Midwest, primarily, at colleges. The NACA circuit. And we would show up. Some shows would be sold out. Not sold because they were free tickets, but huge audience dying to see us, love it.

Some audience would be a lunchroom in Dubuque at noon in a cafeteria. But we'd have to make them laugh for an hour. And so we did it. And I would die on a Starbucks double shot and get out there and be like,

y'all want to see some funny? Hey, you with the cheeseburger. And there was one show in particular in Detroit where we were opposite a McDonald's. It was like, imagine just showing up

and doing an improv show in a McDonald's. In the McDonald's? In the McDonald's. And it was my favorite show ever. I had two Starbucks double shots. And I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to get this crowd.

These are my black ladies at the post office. This is the grumpiest crowd. They don't want to see us. They don't want to be here. They don't want us to make them laugh. And I'm going to do it. They want to eat nuggets. And that was the spirit of the whole group.

It was like, we're going to do this. This is our job. We're getting paid for it. We have to do this show. So let's try our hardest and you were you were singing songs no songs

no that was just it was just short form improv so it was kind of like whose line is it anyway just games wacky characters just that kind of stuff just getting in the audience's face

flying you know if somebody sneezes over there this whole sketch is about about a sneeze if hey what are you is that french fries

those look delicious. All six of us will get around you and talk about, oh, those are delicious, those are French fries. And then everyone starts to get like, oh, this is about us. This is real. This is actually happening. These guys are not giving up,

so we might as well listen. And that just built up my chops so much. And Lloyd was there on this tour? Yeah, it was Lloyd's company. It was him and a group of six guys started this company, very independent. They were like, this is bullshit that nobody gets paid doing improv. Why can't we get paid? And so they got paid, and they went out and made their own way.

And, yeah, that inspired me a lot. So you were, like, all crammed into a van driving around? All crammed into a van, just cracking jokes. And that was it for how how long year and a half I did that and

what year are we talking about so we can kind of get a bearing 2002 I think 2002 2003 and

I again I kind of put down my guitar a little bit and I was really focusing on on comedy improv starting to do well, starting to get recognized. And then I got cast as Luke Skywalker in a Star Wars musical spoof. Of course. Where was this?

That was at ImprovOlympic upstairs. A guy named Jason Chin, who was great, directed it, wrote it. And this musical director named Stephanie taught me how to sing and got me, there was no microphone, so I had to project this booming voice. I had to get it. I had to find it. And with her, I found it. And that changed everything.

And then I started playing open mics, and I had one funny song I wrote in high school about a dildo and a cover of Baby Got Back, of course. And I went to an open mic, and I played one funny song I wrote in high school about a dildo and a cover of Baby Got Back, of course. And I went to an open mic and I played those two and people went nuts. Sing us a little bit of the dildo song. You want the guitar?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to tune it. That's fine. All right. Well, that one's in tune over there, the seagull. The seagull's in tune? Yeah, do it. Okay, all right.

He's like, I asked him to sing this song and his eyes are darting around and he's like, you see three guitars. I'm lost in this world with these headphones. I hope this is going all right.

It's awesome. We've never had a performance on your biscuits. Put you on the spot here. It's a lot of tune, but that's all right. So I would show up in a room, and I would look real innocent. I still had hair at the time, and I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't, no one knew I was going to do anything funny.

This might not even be funny anymore. I look at everyone, and it's just like I'm going to sing a sweet song. And then I build it up and build it up, and then all of a sudden I... And then I'd build it up and build it up. And then all of a sudden I'd. Just like the dinosaur was replaced by the alligator, Daniel the boyfriend was replaced by a vibrator. And that's the moment where everybody's like, what?

Wait a minute. What did that little boy just say? That little boy. Well, because I did. I looked like a little kid. I didn't start growing up until about three years ago. You mean visage-wise. Yeah, exactly.

I lived for that moment. That moment of, you know, I build up noise, build up noise, and nothing gets a room quieter than silence. And just before I'd start singing, I'd go, and everyone would go, and then I'd go, vibrator, and then I'd go, say what? And that just changed my life. I loved touring with the improv troupe, but I was just a little bit too selfish of a performer because I loved it more when I was just,

I got to conduct this room of energy and just like get them all loud, get them all quiet. But I only had two songs. Time to write. Exactly. So this guy came up to me and was like, man, you got to come back next week. That was great.

Yeah, you got to play more songs. And I was like, I don't know any more songs. So then I started writing songs. And then I just, it was a time in my life when I was single. And that was the only time in my life when I was single. And I just, that's all I did. I just wrote. I learned how to use Pro Tools.

And I started going to open mics. And I found this one Wednesday nights at Coyle's Tipling House. And that's in Chicago. I went every Wednesday. And that's just where I workshopped everything. And I just, you know, Tipling house. And that's in Chicago. I went every Wednesday and, uh, I, that's just where I workshopped everything. And I just,

you know, 10 minutes, you only got 10 minutes. So every time, every week I'd have two new songs and I became great friends of the bartender. I'm still friends with him, still visit him in his family, Minnesota sometimes.

So, okay. So how did it go from this to the conversation, the story you told us the beginning of meeting danny diamond and then at this world of youtube opening up to you because you said he introduced you to casim and yeah well i guess there's a little bit in between that is that i did start to become a little successful at that and i started touring regionally i i pulled back out of the improv troupe because again i felt it's getting a little emotionally intense the guys that out of the improv troupe because, again, I felt it was getting a little emotionally intense. The guys, some of the relationships were combusting a little bit.

I was like, I'm out. I'm out. I'm going to focus on music. I put a band together. I met this girl who played drums for me. We ended up dating. I met this guy who played bass for me, and we put a little three-piece together. We would tour and play shows with these funny songs.

I had about 15 of them at that point. I stopped myself. I put this, I put this invisible barrier on myself. I never really strived to become a real success. And I don't know why. And I don't know what it did. I, I don't, I just was either stupid or lazy or not focused, or I had nobody helping me the right kind of way. Um, I had guys helping me get shows and stuff. And there, There was a guy in England who kept me going for years after I would have given up because I would go to

England and those audiences were awesome. People just stopped listening. I expected the world to give it to me. I didn't realize that I had to get it. I did that for eight years and I played every place. I used to play in an airplane hangar, and they would pay me in parachute jumps.

I got to skydive for free because I played the night before. Wow. I've actually played in four airplane hangars. You're like a skydiving fiend or something? No. There's just a good market there. There's a good market there. I used to play.

The acoustics are great. The acoustics are great, and the guys are wild. They have a high. My show got racy, got raunchy. It got real raunchy. And, like, my mom didn't like any of my music, and I shouldn't care about that, but I know somewhere in the back of my underdeveloped brain I did. And I just, I toured on that, and I became this, I had a sweet face

and a really dirty mouth and a really shocking mouth, and I would say anything about anybody. Like what was the raunchiest place that you went in one of these songs? I mean, I used it as sexual therapy for my own issues of sexuality and I just, I would talk about everything. I would talk about, you know, if I was

having trouble with a girl in bed, I would sing, I would write a song about it, graphically. And, you know, I wrote a song called The Mystery of the Clitoris. And it was this long... Sounds like it could be helpful. I think it was a little bit helpful. I think I... Sex education courses. I did my own therapy for myself and I shared it

with people and I think it made everybody feel comfortable. I was like, this guy's talking about having troubles keeping an erection. And I felt like that before. I don't... Why do I have to... Why can't we talk about it? Why can't we laugh about it? And I think it did appeal to a certain cross-section of people, but I was like that before. I don't, why do I have to, why can't we talk about it? Why can't we laugh about it? And I think it did appeal

to a certain cross section of people but I was stuck in bars and I was stuck on money and that's what was stupid. That was part of what I did wrong. And so there wasn't, like you said, there was this invisible barrier

against success that you can't really pinpoint. Was it that, okay, well, I don't know exactly what the next step is. I didn't know the next step

and I was always trying to pay the bills. So I would take the gig that paid $600 to play for 300 people that don't care at a s*** bar in a suburb, rather than the intimate listening room where 20 of my fans would show up. And really, I got to grow as a performer. I was always just entertaining groups. I was better at audiences who had never seen me before. You were following the money, but the money was small. Money was small, limited, and I wasn't developing a following.

I wasn't playing to a following. I wasn't doing enough for the people that followed me, to be honest. I was putting them in places with 100 other people who didn't care. And after eight years of this, you kind of get to a point where, like you said earlier, your girlfriend at the time was like, what are you doing? Yeah, because you're just barely getting by. If you go out and play gigs, you can go to tour England and I could make 2,000 bucks, come home, but it doesn't go anywhere.

It doesn't have real growth. And like I said i i now i'm realizing i just didn't do enough for my fans i didn't do enough for the people who supported me so how low did it get for you i mean i played a christmas party at a pilates instructor's living room and she specialized in senior pilates and i played an acoustic set in the corner of a living room and this was probably about four months before you guys met me. Were they doing Pilates at the time? No.

It was their Christmas celebration. And they were older people? 70 to 90. And you were singing about the clitoris. I was. I sang. I did instrumentals of those songs so I could amuse myself. I was like, man, if I was singing these words. And I sang, Much Is That Doggy

in the Window like three times. Oh, they loved that one. They loved it. Oh yeah, they did. I sang.

Okay, low point. I get it. Low point, but I was still playing music. Yeah. It was 200 bucks, you know,

and I was still doing it. I was doing every Monday night at a bar in Playa del Rey. I was doing every Tuesday night at a bar in Long Beach. I was out here. I got a job at Break.com

to write. Wait, so what necessitated the move? so why did I move to LA? Because I gave up. I was doing every Tuesday night at a bar in Long Beach I was out here I got a job at break.com so what necessitated the move because I gave up Chicago was a great place to give up on your dreams and it was a great place to find your dreams and then eventually give up on them and it just wasn't there aren't those kind of people Danny doesn't live in Chicago

you guys don't live in Chicago you live in LA now and I was I needed, I needed somebody. I needed somebody to help me. And there was a guy in England. There was a guy in Chicago who was helping me book shows and it was great. There was a guy in England

that was really helping me. So I thought about moving to England. I almost got married to this guy so I could stay in England. We were so close. I mean, we didn't have an intimate relationship, but we were like,

dude, let's get married. Just for the legal. For the legal things. That is amazing. We're obviously close enough. We, we didn't have an intimate relationship, but we were like, dude, let's get married. Just for the legal. For the legal things. That is amazing. We're obviously close enough. We'll sell tickets to the wedding. It'll be packed. We were local.

He made me a local hero. You almost had a fake gay marriage with a man. I almost had a fake gay marriage. That is absolutely astounding. And I'm talking, we researched it. We looked into it. And England kept me going because American audiences, their attention,

strangers, wasn't great and like I said, I was not really paying attention to the people who really wanted to see me. I was just trying to entertain masses

because that's where the money was and so in England, they just listen. You put a sign out that says live music tonight, people are like, let's go listen and a guy,

my favorite story about England, a guy came up to me, you know, didn't really enjoy your music. I'd like to buy you a beer. Cheers for playing. That's a fair trade-off. It was great.

He listened the whole time, clapped after every song, didn't really like what you do, but really, really proud of you for doing it. I'd like to buy you a pint. That doesn't happen here. Doesn't happen here. They'll start playing darts.

And that was one thing that I kept in my arsenal. If somebody stopped listening, I would shred them. I would, as soon as somebody wasn't paying attention, I would just slowly start singing about their hair and their glasses until the people around them would be like, I think he's singing about that guy. Is he singing about that guy right there? This cannot be a coincidence because he just said blue hair and that guy has blue hair.

And a turtleneck. But I would sing it as if it was this written song. I wouldn't really look at the guy and it would have chord structure and melody and and people would like start giggling it's like reverse heckling exactly props I would heckle the audience and that was only that only became my staple and that's not a great way to to grow if I have to be in a diverse situation to thrive right I hit the wall and what I can do in entertaining bars. But you made a last minute decision, it sounds like, to not do the fake gay marriage in England

and move to LA. Yeah, I moved to LA. A girl I was dating at the time kind of encouraged me to get out of Chicago. I've always had my own issues underdeveloped as a man. And so I've always leaned on girls to make me whole did she say i'll come out here with you yeah yeah she said you should go you're not you're hitting walls here she also she said we should go yeah well she said she didn't want to go oh she didn't want to go and this is like 2010 yeah 2009 maybe 2010 okay so i i did that music thing and i kept writing songs. I kept trying to do albums.

I got a new drummer, a different drummer. And I just never was applying myself as much as I could. And that was just that. And I was limiting myself by every song I had had an F-bomb in it.

Every song I had. And I didn't know how to write clever stuff. I didn't have the guts to do it. I didn't have the guts to explore deeper emotions again like I used to. Because you can't do that in front of a crowded noisy bar in Wisconsin. You can't like explore subtlety of humor. And so that's why when I started singing on YouTube,

because they're listening the whole time, nobody's heckling you, nobody's coughing, the attention is focused. I was able to start exploring that again and it reawakened my creative energy. So did you start making youtube videos first or meet danny first tough call i don't know how'd you meet danny i met danny because i got a because lloyd found uh they were hiring writers and i i submitted as a sketch writer and i had the worst sketches ever but i had made the fine brothers the fine brothers were head writers at the station were hiring writers. And I submitted sketches.

I had made that first picture song just because I was trying to figure out what to do. I didn't know. That was your first YouTube video was a picture song? No, I actually had a hit viral video in 2006. I had a song called 50 Cent is a B****. It got 500,000 views in 2006. And I had 100 subscribers. I had no idea what to do with it.

I was a stupid idiot. I look back at it and I'd be like, that was your chance. And you just didn't realize it. You didn't capitalize it. You didn't sit down and make another video. Instead, you watched Bo Burnham videos and got jealous.

And that's so stupid. That's so stupid to look at something and be like, why wasn't that happening to me? And the answer was in front of me all along. It's like, why aren't I doing that? And that's what I just, it just dawned on me so lloyd had a connection with the station they were looking for writers because because of the comedy circuit because the comedy circuit yeah and lloyd's just the type of guy that

if he sees something that can help somebody else he's going to pass it along and he saw that and i was i got fired from break i was there i was brought on to make original music content and I got fired and I loved that why'd you get fired? cause I wanted to make good things so you told them that the things

they were asking you to make sucked no no I just we it just didn't work out we did I shouldn't have said that

we just did we had different sensibilities okay no no things I don't know, but I love it.

And it was, that was, that was good for me too, just to fail so hard to be at such a low point when I did meet Danny, to be so desperate. So you were working for break,

making, writing songs for other people or for your own channel? Writing songs, writing sketches, no, for break. Just as a writer? Yeah.

You weren't in front of a camera? Nope. I was writing and I wrote, I wrote a song front of a camera. Nope. I was writing, and I wrote a song called Santa's a Gangster, and I was like, they wanted me to make a Christmas video. I was like, dude, this is good. Trust me.

And they were like, nah. So I did it, and I made it, and I made it with Lloyd, and I had that YouTube video, and a picture song. And when I submitted to the Fine Brothers to be a writer, my sketches were terrible.

But they happened to look at my YouTube channel, and they were like, you can write songs. We should get you to write songs for Dave Days. And that's in my original meeting, that was what I was going to do, was write songs for other people. And that's what I did for a while. And it was great.

But I got hired to write 10 songs at $100 a song to write, record, produce. The big bucks. Dude, that was, to me at the time, it was awesome. It was? Yeah. Because, I mean, you were flat broke, you said? I got flat broke and I got a check for $1,000.

And all I had to do was write and record 10 songs, which I was going to do anyway. And I learned how to make parodies. I got off my high horse and I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to learn how to do this. And during that course, I, you know, during that, I learned more about production and like, all right, how do I make something sound like that on the radio? Now I know it. So what's one of the songs you wrote for Dave Days, you said? Yeah, I didn't, I didn't end up writing any songs for Dave Days, but there was, there was that just, I just remember that conversation. I had a management company that was tied into the improv theater here in LA.

So I was doing shows at the improv. And I remember one night I did a show and I crushed it. And it was great. And then the next morning I was polishing silverware at the restaurant job I had. And I got yelled at for not doing it right. And I quit. I was like, this is so stupid. I can do that.

And I'm getting yelled at for polishing forks wrong. And like no offense to anyone who polishes forks, but this is not for me. This is not what I should be doing. I quit my job. I had nothing. Where does that lead me to? I was just desperate. Somehow, I don't know. Time gets a little murky around that time

because everything happens so fast. I was super desperate. I saw it as my last chance. I was really about to give up on everything. I got this gig delivering weed saw it as my last chance. I was really about to give up on everything. Then I got this, I got this gig delivering weed brownies, uh, through my friend Corey, who I haven't talked to in ages. And I hope I get to talk to him again soon. Cause I lost his phone number. So Corey, if you're out there. Oh, he's listening. Um, so I, uh, I, I just threw my whole everything, everything I've ever known how to do ever. I threw into making videos and it was all I did. Okay. And so we covered at the beginning about, you know,

the conversation with Danny and then the conceptualizing the epic rap battles of history, seeing that initial success, following it up. And then all of a sudden you've got this expectation. Yeah. I freaked out. I got to, I got to keep coming up with this stuff. I had a nervous breakdown. You had a nervous breakdown. Yeah. I turned off my phone. I changed my phone number. I freaked out. I got to keep coming up with this stuff. Yeah, I had a nervous breakdown. You had a nervous breakdown? Yeah. I turned off my phone. I changed my phone number. I didn't call anyone.

At what point? How many battles in? Started maybe about four or five battles in. Oh, wow. I moved. There's another guy missing from the story, and I hope I'm not just making it too boring and full of details. It's Dante, who became my co-songwriting partner.

I never had, you know, you guys have co-songwriting partner. I never had, you know, you guys have a songwriting partnership. I'd never had that before. And I just hadn't met the guy. And I met Dante and we worked on that Shay Carl and the Shaytards song together.

We worked on Superman Socks together. And he was just willing to go, man. We did 60 takes of that Shay Carl and the Shaytards song to get one that worked from top to bottom. And he was just, every take,

he was like, all take, he was like, all right, let's do it again. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. And he was just right there. So that was your writing partner, right? That was my writing partner.

And he actually, he called me to help him with a project he was doing. We wanted to make music for a documentary about hot air balloons. Don't we all. You know? And so Maker started throwing more songs at me and

and Ben at Maker threw a song at me that was that got me to go out and visit Dante again he wanted us to make something that sounded like Love Hurts

but wasn't Love Hurts Love Hurts and so and so we did that we pulled this song out of our asses and we tracked it and we were getting

we were me and Dante we were coming tight musically and we would record in his garage out in Pacoima. And that's where we did Shay Carl and that's where, and that's, so all this stuff is happening. I'm just getting excited. People, you know, I did that song about Shay and his family. He put it in his blog. All of a sudden I was at a 4th of July party and I just, my, I used to get an email

every time I got a subscriber. Oh, wow. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, my whole life changed, and it changed on a BlackBerry. And I just was like, new subscriber. New, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling, bling. And then all of a sudden, I had 10,000 people watching me. So I went from 150 people to 10,000. And that was big to me.

And I knew this is all I'm doing. I canceled every gig. I canceled everything. And Danny gave me the salary. And I think Danny wanted to get me out of writing and into being me. I do know that part of the reason I really freaked out is because I got a level of adoration and adulation that I wasn't ready for.

And I didn't feel good about myself. This is a nervous breakdown. Yeah. I didn't feel good about myself. I didn't feel like I deserved 150 tweets every morning saying I was really great. I felt awful. My relationship was falling apart. My relationship with my brother had hit some real, like, just falling apart.

What do you mean? my relationship with my brother just hit because of some issues left in me from my childhood I just had a falling out with my brother so I was disconnected from him I was disconnected I was pulling back from the whole world as far as real interaction

and just hiding behind a keyboard and a camera and I'm pulling back from the microphone as I do it that's how I felt I just felt like I was behind this thing and a camera, and pulling back from the microphone as I do it, because that's how I felt. I just felt like I was behind this thing, and I didn't talk to people. I edited also my own face every day, and that's just not good for you. I crafted my own voice through editing, and I took out any part that I thought was weird.

I took out any part where I thought I looked weird, or I thought I sounded weird, and that just started to take a toll on me. Is that why you wore sunglasses? I wore sunglasses because Mr. E-Guitar Man wore sunglasses. And I wore sunglasses because it was sunny the day I was brought to drive the van to Las Vegas on a Maker trip. Maker had a big brand deal in Las Vegas.

That's where I met Shea, met Kasim. I was wearing sunglasses because that was my job. I was the driver. And it was bright out. And I was in some videos. And someone left a comment, that guy in the yellow and green sunglasses is really funny.

Who's he? And that told me who I was going to be. I was going to be that guy in the green and yellow sunglasses, always. And it made it easier for me to look at the viewfinder so I could make sure I was always in the shot. So I was usually to be that guy in the green and yellow sunglasses always and it made it easier for me to look at the viewfinder so I could make sure I was always in the shot so I was usually shooting stuff myself

and it just gave me a look it gave me something so you weren't hiding behind the sunglasses and the process was you were kind of becoming the nice person that you now are as a result of your interaction

with your audience? I think so. I think I just, I just grew up a little bit and, and I just took more emotional risks a little more. But how far did the breakdown, how far did the breakdown go? I mean, what was this like a don't talk to me and I'm not making any more rap battles? No, I, all I did was work. Okay. All I did was work. Don't talk to me about anything else. I didn't, I just, I had no real connection with people

and I had no real connection with my family and just like I freaked out of my family. I just, I lost, I turned off my phone and stopped calling my friends and I stopped. I just, I don't know what happened. I just freaked out. I just wasn't ready. I was not ready to go from 150 subscribers

to a million and a half subscribers in like six months but did you keep the inner circle intact but lloyd and lloyd yeah lloyd and dante yeah yeah yeah absolutely and did they say hey we're worried about you no because they're they're both i mean lloyd is as work obsessed as i am i think he was like welcome to the club bro yeah i'll work is all that matters so are you still there or are you out of it? I don't know. I think I'm much more balanced. You turned your phone back on at some point. I turned my phone back on.

I started reaching out to people and I had some apologies to go around. I mended my relationship with my brother. I think I mentioned I was just talking to him today. So the relationship that I'm in now, the personal relationship I'm in now, encouraged me to make amends and grow more than like turn my back on everybody and just focus on work. And also, I did it.

I did what I always wanted. Sir Mix-a-Lot and Baby Got Back was my career aspiration. If I could have one hit that everybody knows. Forever. Forever. I could just cruise on that.

I could just like be that guy who has that one hit. And once I did that, I felt like Vader Hitler was that hit. And then I did it again with a couple more rap battles that became big hits. And I was like, I did it. I did what I set out to do. I'm done, right? So I can just chill out now. I can look inward and kind of develop myself as a person.

Because I spent 12 years doing nothing but trying to get here. And now I'm here and I'm miserable. And that's so stupid because I have everything I always thought I wanted. Why do I go to Bed Bath & Beyond to buy myself things to feel better because I have money but I feel terrible? And that was so stupid. So where are you at now in that process? What's going on inside Prime Minister Nice Pete's head? Right now, we made some videos that are so cool that it's so hard to keep up with them.

It's so hard to keep up with what we've already done. And it's also physically so taxing. It's such an obsession. It becomes, these songs become such an obsession and the videos become, I know every frame and every tick of every beat of everything and it just loops over and over again in my head as I try to get to sleep.

So I started drinking too much to get to sleep which obviously makes it your next morning you drink too much coffee and then you're just this wound up thing. And it's just right now I feel good. Cause I think we just put out one that is of the, of the level of where we wanted to be. Uh, we've just put out Michael Jordan versus Muhammad Ali. We were talking about a little bit and I was like, this is, this is, this is it. I'm so proud of this. It's hard. It's hard to continue because I don't want it to suck ever.

And it's because it can be so cool that we can just keep working on it until it gets there. I don't know. It's hard. So it's just this building pressure of it's got to be as good or better than the last one. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and it's sort of the, you know, it's the, we have a little taste of this just having a YouTube channel and making a living on YouTube. Not having that one thing, though, but there is this, the indefinite, never-ending season of epic rap battles in history. Like, that doesn't that you know that's not how the world ever worked in entertainment right there was a gatekeeper who gave you another season uh there was a company that financed another movie you know but i guess a tv series is a better thing to use as a comparison because it was the same thing but they just never last i mean you know the best shows get canceled right right right

but now you're the gatekeeper right for epic rap battles of history and it can just go on indefinitely it's just a weird place to be and like you know from a psychological perspective you're kind of establishing what the psychology of that situation is because you're one of the only people that has that to experience. You can't have a mentor. There's nobody who did this in 1975. I had a lot of mentors getting into it, and now I think all those mentors and me are all like, I don't know, man. I don't know how this works.

I really admired Ray and still do, and I think he's in a similar place of like i did it i became the number one subscribed youtube channel now what do i do and it's like i could do this forever i want to do other things he's making a movie and he he's doing other things and i i don't want to what i admire about you guys and what you do is that you have such a great relationship with your audience and you're so you're so trustworthy with. You say you're going to do something and you do it. I feel like I've just let my audience down over and over again.

I feel like my core audience who really cares about the music that I make and they know what my dog's name is, I haven't been there for them or in that audience performer relationship since I started doing the rap battles again. I just can't.

I can't. I was faking it for a while. That was another thing that was bad for me was I would be miserable, put on a very happy face, make a very happy video, edit it so it felt great. And we're talking your second channel,

like your Monday show. Yeah, exactly. More vlog, fan-based. And I love doing that stuff and I love the connection. And it got that connection got me through everything. It became that became my form of therapy. But it's it's it's not it's not healthy. So there's a sense that where you're at right now is not sustainable. So that's what I'm hearing you kind of say. Yeah. What, where do you think you go from here?

I have no idea. You know, I'm currently, like, I'm currently in a contract to make a lot more rap battles. And I'm kind of in a contract with myself to make a lot more rap battles. But I'm definitely in a contract with a company to make a lot more rap battles. Or that they're going to be made. And, and I, I could,

sometimes I get tempted and wonder about like stepping away from them more, but I feel such an emotional connection to them. I feel like they're my, my babies. And there are a lot of people's babies. We all, there's a lot of us that work on them. I'm not the only person who works on them,

but I, I do, I have a, it have a real deep personal connection to them and the way they come out. So you're not willing, you're not able to shift your gaze from that? I don't think so. I don't think, I think I just care about them too much to let them go a different direction. And I'm just, I don't, that's maybe my own problem

that I don't have enough trust in people. But it's tough. It's a tough call. I don't know what, I think I'm just going to keep going. So you find yourself staying up all hours of the night teaching yourself After Effects. Well, I'm trying to catch up. Our After Effects guy is a wizard. But he's only one guy.

And we have had people. A very valuable member of our crew, I don't know if I mentioned this on the show already, went to Saturday Night Live. Our director and main editor went. And he's the guy who made Rap Battles look the way they did. He made that logo. I was there with him, and I was like, can you move that part a little higher? But he nailed it. And he's gifted. He's a gifted

guy. And anytime you try and replace that, it's going to be a challenge. And so it is, I learned from him. I know how to do what he does effortlessly. I know how to do through a great deal of effort. And me and the rest of our editing team are I think we

just got to a place. There were three of us edited Michael Jordan versus Muhammad Ali and I think we just got to a place. There were three of us edited Michael Jordan versus Muhammad Ali, and I think it's as good as anything we ever made with Dave, and we're really proud of that. Our After Effects guy has grown to great lengths, but then it's just having more people in there working on it is always better.

So how does all this apply on a, on a personal front? You know, um, things fell apart with your family at some point. Are you, are you setting yourself up for us for a second breakdown? No, that's what I want. I want to avoid that at all costs. Um, I don't think I'll ever get there again. I think, you know, I'm just, because I'm aware of it being possible. I'm, I'm just because I'm aware of it being possible I'm never gonna get there I'm not I can't I worked myself too hard before and I gave up my humanity

and I can't do that anymore I just don't wanna do that anymore I'd rather work on work right and maybe work a little healthier and learn from you guys how to sustain an operation in a way that doesn't sacrifice your family.

You guys have kids. I could not possibly even begin to have a child right now. And that is something I want to do with my life at some point. So I've got to figure out how to get there. Well, it will change things, though. That's the thing. Sometimes just having the kid is like, oh, okay, well, I've got to make some adjustments. I'm not saying you should.

Have a kid to make my life better. Right. I'm just saying that, you know, I'm not saying anything. You do whatever you want to do. But if you have a kid, it just, it sort of forces change. Yeah, it's rather saying have a kid to make your life better. Have a kid and put it in the line of fire. No, he's not saying that.

Okay. Well, let's bring it back the line of fire. No, he's not saying that. Okay. Well, let's bring it back in closing to Ben. What's his name? Your friend? Hauser. Ben Hauser. Yeah, he lives in South Korea now. Really? You keep in touch with Ben? Not as much as I do in my head.

So in your head, what do you think Ben is saying? I think he's proud of me it's kind of funny how we're talking about him like he's a dead relative what do you think Ben is saying looking down from heaven I think he's proud of me and I feel like I've satisfied that part of my life journey and now it's exciting

because I have a reputation I have a body of work that's really good and I can and I have a reputation. I have a body of work that's really good, and I have some money, and I know how to do things right now. And so I could put that energy into another project in the future. When the Epic Rabbit House history does reach its conclusion, which it has to someday, I'm excited about the rest of my life because I don't know what I'm going to do.

I might just raise chickens, but I'm going to raise good chickens. And you have Snoop Dogg's cell phone number. I don't have Snoop Dogg's cell phone number. But I know the dude. Yeah, you can get in touch. But we're cool. We're cool.

Me and Snoop are cool. And that could last you a few years, just that. Yeah. And the amount of things I've gotten to do, I'm so grateful. That's why it's so hard to feel down because I'm so lucky and I'm so grateful that it's so stupid to not feel good. But sometimes I just need to take a step back and talk to people. Sometimes you've got to shake somebody's hand to remember that there's actual human interaction in the world that is not through a computer.

Well, we thank you for taking the time to talk to us. Now you need to sign the round table of dim lighting. You need to sign the round table. And that was our conversation with Nice Peter. Nice Pete Shukoff. Shukoff. Prime Minister Pete Nice. You remember Prime Minister Pete Nice from third base, right?

He was not the guy with the cane. He was. No, the guy with the cane. He wasn't the big guy. Right. He was the slick guy with the slick hair, the shorter guy. And the cane, yeah. He did have a cane.

He kind of rapped like this, kind of. Okay, yeah, yeah. The thing that surprised me about Pete was he wasn't always nice. I mean, really, like I told him, we've had conversations after talking with Pete, and the takeaway is always, this guy is so nice. That's why they call him Nice Peter. Yeah, but that...

That's what we thought. It's funny that that's not the case. Yeah, I was convinced that that's what he was going to tell me. Well, I just have this reputation of being really nice. Actually, he had the reputation from his stand-up musical improv type approach of being mean. Professionally mean. And, I mean, the way he presented it to us was the internet and his complimentary audience gave him the confidence to be who he really is, which is a nice guy, as opposed to a stage act.

Well, because I mean, I think, you know, not that being an internet comedian versus being a stand-up comedian is necessarily easier. One is not necessarily easier than the other, I don't think. I think that one is just more, you know, more demanding of people's attention. You have to say, okay, this guy is actively heckling me or turning my back to him. So I've got to point this out in order to gain control. Like we don't have to worry about the person who's thinking negative things about us during, you know, while they're listening to this or watching a internet video, because

right now it's happening. I'm not going to respond to you, sir. they're listening to this or watching an internet video because right now it's happening. I'm not going to respond to you, sir, there in the blue shirt. Yes, you listening to Ear Biscuits right now. You're lying in your bed right now. You're about to go to sleep. You're about to nod off. Yes, you with the brown hair and the blue shirt.

You're a jerk. Why are you sleeping in a blue shirt? You should be sleeping in pajamas. You look like a little punk. Wake up and finish listening to, see, it doesn't. If you were a real man, you'd be sleeping in the nude. It doesn't, well, that is also true. But that doesn't really work, you know,

singling somebody out. Yeah, I mean, people just click away. Yeah, they're like, I'm not the guy in the blue shirt. You can't even make fun of them as they're clicking away because it happens so quickly. I mean, it happens in the instance of a click. They went and clicked away already. They're gone.

There they go. They're gone. Bye. They're gone. See, but you're still here, and you're the only one that really matters for this ear biscuit. So, I mean, Pete is truly a nice guy. I mean, after we stopped the recording,

he was going through people that he wished he would have shouted out. I wish I would have said that I was influenced by the Fine Brothers to always give it my best and to be excellent. Did I mention them? Because I meant to. And he's extremely grateful and humble.

And it's not an act. It is who he really is. So I think it's great that the internet audience allowed him to become the real him and still be as funny and entertaining as he is, but not have to deal with the hecklers and be shaped by that. Right, so why don't you, Air Biscuteers,

I'm going to keep trying to sell that, by the way, you do the nice thing, go over to Nice Peter's channel, his Epic Rap Battles channel, maybe his Twitter. Whatever you want to do, go tell him you enjoyed his ear biscuit and you want him to keep being nice and keep making rap battles. Yeah, his Twitter is twitter.com slash you guessed it, Nice Peter. Let him know. And another ear biscuit coming your way very soon.

Hashtag ear biscuits. I think we're skipping a week for the holidays. That's the rumor. Just to be with the family. And then we'll be back two weeks from now. So we won't be gone that long. Don't you worry. Happy holidays.

Stay warm.