Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 24 Michael Gallagher (Totally Sketch) - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: March 14, 2014

Michael Gallagher, of popular channel "Totally Sketch," joins Rhett & Link this week to talk about his role behind the camera as one of the most sought-after directors on YouTube, being the first YouTuber to score a theatrical release for a feature length film, and how his film, Smiley, led to an onslaught of death threats toward him, his cast, and his family. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. off your first purchase, go to squarespace.com and use our offer code RANDL. That's R-A-N-D-L. Okay. You need a website. You need to use Squarespace. You know the drill. They make it easy. And listen, how much do you think it costs? I can say $1,000 a month. $8 a month. Oh, it's a lot lower than I thought. Inc thought includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year so the only problem i see is not the price that that's the solution eight dollars a month the problem is coming up with a domain name so i mean that's something that that's not easy but that's the point everybody has a website and you need to get on this train well the domain uh name thing thing is quite a chore.

I remember one time we started trying to come up with some way to come up with a website that would point to retinlink.com because we thought that when we said retinlink.com, people wouldn't know how to spell ret, like if we were on the radio or whatever, like that would ever happen. It happened a couple of times. So we came up with internetpeanutbutter.com, which I think still works. Oh, yeah, it does. But if that's any indication of how hard it is to come up with a domain name, that's the thing that you've got to do, okay?

Don't delay. Go ahead and do it. Just go ahead and reserve that. But you get to do it for free, and then $8 a month, that's like a latte and a half, depending on the size that you get and where you get the latte from.

You're doing like a conversion? Yeah, coffee conversion. Like the charity? Like, this is not a charity. Like, for the cost of a latte and a half, you can contribute to a charity. Hey, if you want to use that voice to get people to sign up for Squarespace,

I don't care. Start a trial with no credit card required. You can make a charity website. And start building your website today. When you decide to sign up for Squarespace charity website calm Make sure that's I'm sure that's taking don't get their hopes up. Make sure to use your offer code R and L That's our a and D L to get 10% off your first purchase and to show your support for ear biscuits I really don't like it when you talk like that. It kind of makes me feel uncomfortable. But you want to give to charity.

Yeah, I do. But I want them to sign up for Squarespace so they can show their support of Ear Biscuits. Let's make another Ear Biscuit. Welcome to Ear Biscuits. I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. It's time for another conversation

with someone interesting from the internet. This week, that person's Michael Gallagher, the man behind the YouTube channel Totally Sketch. He's currently one of the most sought-after directors on YouTube. Plus, he made waves as the first YouTuber to score a theatrical release of his debut feature-length film, Smiley.

We discussed his beginning a directing career at the age of 14 by convincing the actors that he was 30. We also talk about how he finds the edge of what's acceptable for content on YouTube and how his film Smiley led to

death threats for him and his friends and family. Now it's interesting because you know the Smiley is obviously a horror film and it's not called The you know, The Smiley is obviously a horror film. It's not called The Smiley. It's just called Smiley. This film, Smiley, is a horror film. And you come right out and tell Michael in our talk with him

that you have no plans on seeing it because you don't like horror films. Yeah. The trailer was scary enough to convince me that this is not my cup of tea. And I think we've established this in our previous Ear Biscuit discussion. We established that your mom

indoctrinated you to appreciate horror films as a shared experience at a young age. I mean, we talked about it in detail. Well, I think that might be a little bit of a misconception. Okay.

But I will say that you tried to indoctrinate me. My mom likes horror movies because her personality type is similar in that way, and I like them for the same reason. My brother didn't watch them with us. It was me and her. I think he'll watch a horror movie, but yeah. So it was just something that, it's the same thing. Interestingly enough, I usually describe it like a thrill ride.

I like to ride roller coasters at an amusement park. You like to ride roller coasters at an amusement park. Now, I'll tell you the reason I like to ride a roller coaster is because what is happening to my body is telling my mind that I am going to die. My mind believes that there's no way a human can be thrown in these positions, have these G forces put onto their body without them being an imminent danger, right? But you know what? I'm not going to die. Maybe somebody died one time on Space know what? I'm not going to die. Maybe somebody died one time on Space Mountain, but I'm not going to die. So I get the same exact sensation when I

watch a horror movie. I think I could be the one being killed now. I might be about to die, but I know that I'm not really going to. So I enjoy it in the exact same way. So I want to know, what is the difference? I do enjoy roller coasters. I didn't know that it was like a fear of death, but maybe it is. It's just being scared. It's not that I don't like being scared. It's just, I just think it's demented and gross. And it puts nasty thoughts into my mind that,

so that's what I mean by scary, as in like nasty and demented. But, okay, so if right now that door busted open and a black bear, well, no, a grizzly bear, one that could actually do some damage, came in here and all of a sudden we were like, oh, crap, and we ran out this door. And then we ran for like 200 yards as this huge bear chased us. And then we got up on top of a house and got away from him somehow. I'd be like, this is awesome.

Exactly, right? You almost died, but you didn't die. But if the bear was like a demon bear and his entrails were hanging out and he was like murdering people and like... That just makes it better. In like a gross way. I'd be like, ew, that bear is gross, man. But, okay, now...

I don't want to see this bear. We also talked on a previous Ear Biscuit about how on my birthday in 2013, what I wanted to do for my birthday party was have... Yeah, last October. My guy friends come to the studio and watch in this room actually because there's no windows

and it's kind of soundproof we set up everything to watch The Conjuring which is you know a lot of people consider to be one of the scariest movies of all time definitely the scariest movie I've ever seen because I don't watch a lot of scary movies because you don't like to watch them, my wife doesn't like to watch them so but you can't, I looked at, my wife doesn't like to watch them. So, but

you can't, I looked at you while we were watching that, and you just, you were scared out of your mind, so was I. It's not that I'm not scared, you seemed like you were having a great time, though. It wasn't, I guess it was a little demented, or maybe it got a lot demented, but it didn't get gross, it wasn't gory.

Okay, you don't like gory. I don't like gory. That's okay, so that helped a little bit, but for days leading up to it, I made up my mind, I'm gonna support you in your birthday wish, and I'm gonna be here for you, and I psyched myself up to everything you're talking about. I'm gonna overcome this, I'm gonna have a good time, I'm not gonna hate this, I'm gonna enjoy it, and I did.

And I actually felt even better because our friend Tony, who was also here, he was worse off than I was in terms of hating these type of movies. He put his earbuds in. Well, he goes upstairs and he's leaving during the movie and stuff like that, and he comes down and he hasn't put in earbuds. He's borrowed the headphones off of your desk. Yeah. And he's wearing, he's watching the movie to

support you in your desire to have fun in this way on your birthday. But he's listening to iTunes. He's listening to happy music. Yeah, and kind of looking at the screen with one eye. If you're listening to like, you know, like Beyonce, it's not gonna be that scary while you're watching this movie.

And that made me feel better. But this, so, I mean, I really appreciated it because you didn't punk out. Tony punked out. You didn't punk out. But, and I agree. And I did have fun.

I haven't seen the Saul series. I don't care about that kind of stuff. You said demented and gross. Yeah. I like The Ring. I like The Conjuring. I like these movies that have this- Psychological thriller?

Supernatural. Supernatural. More supernatural. It's totally crazy, freak you out, right? But this is my thing. This is what I want to say to you, that I think that this is like spicy food. But you have, in this past year or so, you're like, yeah, I kind of get it. You'll eat something spicy, but I kind of get why this is good. I think that we could be like horror movie going buddies. You know, we could just like, hey, man, let's go.

Let's go watch a horror movie. Horror. Just the two of us. First you got to learn how to say the word horror. Horror. Horror movie. Let's go watch a horror movie. And this could be

like a shared experience because I enjoy them so much. Or maybe we could just get somebody to come in here and threaten us, like weekly. Because it would be less of a time commitment.

You know, just an actor. Get an actor with a mask. Well, if it's a psychological supernatural threat, I'm okay with that. But if it actor with a mask. Well, if it's a psychological supernatural threat, I'm okay with that. But if it's like a Jason Smiley kind of threat, like that kind of thing, I don't want that. Let's get like a demon-possessed little girl

to come in once a week, scare the living crap out of us. Like every Friday at four o'clock, this little girl's gonna come in. Can we start with- She's gonna float in. Can we start with. She's gonna float in. Can we start with a demon possessed, like grown woman?

We need to work down to a little girl. Because the younger they get, the more scary it is. Oh wow. I can't. Demon baby is as bad as it gets. Has that movie been made? Yeah, it was.

It was a viral video. Oh yeah. Devil baby or something like that. I'm not seeing that. Devil demon baby. I don? Yeah, it was. It was a viral video. Oh, yeah. Devil Baby or something like that. I'm not seeing that. Devil Demon Baby. I don't know what it was. Okay, so that's what Michael has done. He has, he has, he's made a movie.

It's back in 2012. And, you know, it's been out, but he's done this as a YouTuber. Yeah, he actually pulled it off. He made a horror movie. And, you know, his YouTube channel continues to go strong, Totally Sketch has over 1 million subscribers, over 400 million views. He also does a lot of other directing for other people at Reggie Watts.

He directed Reggie Watts' Reg Rolled video, also directed Joey Graceffa's dramatic series that came out late last year, Storytellers, among many others. And he's worked with Shane Dawson, Jenna Marbles, Toby Turner, Kassim G, to name a few. But let's get into it. All right, here's our Ear Biscuit with Michael Gallagher. Okay, so you just watched Wolf of Wall Street, so you enjoyed that, but I know you're a fan of Dumb and Dumber.

Are you excited about Dumb and Dumber 2? I have to say I'm so excited that I'm sort of, I'm saying I'm not so sure if it's going to be good. Because I don't want to get my expectations so skyrocketing high that when I see the film, I can't possibly live up to those expectations because I really want to enjoy the movie. Well, what kind of place is Dumb and Dumber holding your heart? I mean, is it a special locale in there? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I've seen it like probably a hundred times. I mean, it's one of those movies that my parents were really into comedy. So growing up, they would, like all our VHS tapes were comedies, you know, like Michael Keaton movies. Okay. You know, Jim Carrey, like The Mask, Dumb and Dumber, Ace Ventura, even the sequel. Ace Ventura 2, where he's in Africa. Oh, yeah.

It's incredible. And he does this whole Monopoly guy bit. I recommend you check it out if you haven't seen it. You know what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. But you're not a Jim Carrey fan. You're a Dumb and Dumber fan. It's that movie.

I'm both. But, yeah, where did you guys get Dumb and Dumber from? Where did you research into my past? Is it true? Is it true? Did you call my mom my past? Is it true? Is it true? Did you call my mom? Maybe. Is it true or not?

Yeah, no, it is true. I love Dumb and Dumber. We have minions. Interesting, interesting, interesting. We don't have minions. We just have time. The person who helped us find out that information is listening, and we just called her a minion.

I don't think that's going to go over well. That's true. She's the one that just took a picture of us. She's lovely. Yeah. She made this really lovely papaya tea. She did. Which tastes exactly like biting into a papaya. So, why Dumb and Dumber

though specifically? I mean, sure, it's a great movie, but why latch onto that one? I think there's just something about joyous, dumb, just going to the baseline of being so dumb's just something about joyous, dumb, just going to the baseline of being so dumb that,

I don't know, everything's numb. That's just how reality is. There's something about that level where they're just, everything they're saying,

they don't even realize that the next thing they're saying doesn't make sense to the last thing. They're constantly contradicting themselves. There's something so,

when you're that dumb, it's just bliss. It's perfect. And no film has ever captured it since, I don't think. The interesting thing about Jeff Daniels and Jim Carrey, too, is that I was just looking at an article about the movie,

and you made this observation. Jim Carrey hasn't aged well. Jeff Daniels looks exactly the same. His hair's a little bit different, but I think it's going to look like a father and son. That's what I'm worried about. I really think it's going to come across like a father and son because Jim Carrey is...

I think Jeff Daniels has done a little injection or something to maintain the smoothness. Well, whoever's doctor is good because he does not look like Meg Ryan current day. If you've seen Meg Ryan, she's got puffy lips. Yeah, yeah. Really? They're marshmallows.

They're big. It's been overdone. Yeah, a little bit. But no, yeah, he looks like a baby. He's smooth as a baby. I don't know what his secret is. So do you channel any of that inspiration into Totally Sketch? Like, is there a direct connection there?

Well, it's funny, because I think it's not just Dumb and Dumber, actually. It's like the Fairley Brothers early movies. Okay. I think I really dug. I think those movies are, I mean, some of the best, like between Kingpin, Dumb and Dumber, and something about Mary. It's like the Holy Trinity. Those are the best of their comedies, I think.

But I don't know. They sort of took what the Zucker Brothers did, like the airplane, that kind of sporadic, so many jokes, joke a minute thing, and they also gave it heart. And you actually cared. So by the end of the movie, you were still paying attention. You wanted to know how it ended, and there was a little bit of suspense. So I think that there's something about that kind of combination of just, you know, kind of going

for it. And then it's also that sort of inappropriate humor that like, we're crossing the line, we're going into a zone where, you know, you almost make the audience feel a little uncomfortable for a minute, and then you get to the joke. I think there's something about that that was really exciting to me. Because I like being like, I was very young when I saw a lot of these movies that I probably shouldn't have. And so there was something like, I think the fear of, oh, are my parents going to like stop playing the tape or at some point, are they going to say I got to leave the room or close my eyes or something really exciting about that? Because you were watching them with your parents. Yeah. I had to watch it with my parents. My parents were pretty cool.

I don't think I should be watching this right now. Right. And then it's like, but we're still watching it. So let's keep it going, guys. Come on. I'm not going to make eye contact with the parents right now. Yeah. It's like when you're watching, you know, I saw there's something about Mary in the theater with my parents. And, you know, I'm 25 now. So when that movie came out, how old was I?

I was less. I was like 13, 12, 13. Okay. And it was a little too young for me to see that movie. I mean, you know, I don't want to say all the things that are in that movie, but they're very inappropriate. It's a hair gel scene. And you know, we didn't leave. Let me just say that we did not leave the theater. I saw the entire film and I saw it in a theater where the house was packed and everyone was roaring with laughter. Like literally the room was shaking. It was that like, it was

one of the few times I've seen a movie where everyone is laughing at every joke and it's just like so loud. You're not even hearing the next line. So I think something about that, like those early experiences, they made me, you know, understand the power of comedy. And it's interesting because I can, I guess I can imagine like a younger kid looking at your channel and maybe having that same kind of experience now it's like i'm gonna click on this video interactive sex it's got 100 million views it must be good hope mom doesn't walk in yeah they got the butterflies they got their door that they have to keep open they've got that one eye on the door and then they got one eye on the video so it's or they're watching it with their parents baby on their lap that would be weird Hey mom, check this out

Different strokes for different folks No pun intended So, I mean I have to imagine there's some calculation And kind of working the whole Internet video thing In your favor with The sexual subject matter

And just kind of flirting with, okay, what's going to be beyond this click kind of a thing for you? Yeah, I think, you know, I think when you kind of push the envelope with censors and YouTube doesn't really have like, there's no MPAA or there's no like real censor board. You just sort of have to like,

it's sort of the buddy system, like the Boy Scout system of, we're going to put something out here and it might get flagged, it might not. It's sort of, you know, communal. You never know what's going to go down. And so I kind of like the idea of toying with that invisible line.

And sometimes I've crossed it for sure. And then other times I've been right up to it. And I think that, you know, that's interesting because a lot of people, you know, make things that are very safe and, you know, it's interesting because a lot of people, you know, make things that are very safe and, you know, and that's fine. But I like, you know, kind of putting the edge

in there so that way you never know what you're going to see next. There's sort of a tension to it. Have you been flagged? Have you been taken down? Yes. A million times. Really? No, not a million times. You know, I probably have like, you know, 10 flagged videos out of 200.

When you're flagged, 10 out of 200 videos, they're taken down automatically unless you can prove they should go back up. Right. And so most of them have gotten proven that you should go back up. Like what? What would be taken down that then you can say, well, this is how I dance this line.

Give me a specific example. Well, it's weird because YouTube isn't that, like, they're not very vocal. Like, I don't have, like, a guy at YouTube that I call and he's my guy, you know? And when a video gets flagged, YouTube doesn't call you. I don't get a call, no. It just sort of happens. Like, I just see that nobody can watch it anymore. Like, oh, no, what's going on?

What happened? What did I do? And then, so then I have to go and kind of figure it out and uh but like what was the video that got flagged and walk me through with a specific example kind of it is one video called uh i think it's like the low-cut shirt i think that's what it's called the low-cut shirt are you familiar with the the uh i've seen the thumbnail the thumbnail kind of caught my eye his mom mom doesn't let him collect those thumbnails. I gotcha. I see what's happening.

Yeah, no. So that video, you know, it's basically about a girl who wears an extremely low cut shirt out on a dinner date. And the guy, as being a guy, takes a peek at her cleavage. And while he's down there looking, the sound gets muffled and he's just sort of like focused in on it and then all of a sudden she says something and she's like you know peter did you hear what i just said and he's like yeah of course and then she pulls out a gun she's like did you really because now you have to answer and then becomes interactive where he has to guess what she just said and we as an audience have no idea what she just said. So it's a really ridiculous video.

And it got flagged just because... I think because of the boobage, because there was a high level of boob activity. But then how did you get it unflagged if you didn't have a YouTube guy? Well, the way things get flagged, from my understanding as a civilian, that it's a certain percentage, if it's a high percentage of people who are watching your video, flag it. It doesn't matter if it's just like know, just like, you know, your nephew playing on some steps or, you know, a girl like taking off her clothes. It doesn't matter what it is. If like enough percentage, if I don't know if it's 10% or 15%.

It's automated. It's automated. Yeah. So if your video just goes out and maybe a few hundred people have seen it or a thousand people have seen it and a high number of them have clicked flag then it could go down but how did it come back up that's what happened so i had to email them it took a day or so and then they realized like oh you know you didn't break any rules and and it when it goes up is it then you have to sign in is because i because i noticed that on a few of your videos you have to sign in you have to verify your age there's a few of them that yeah like you can you can still have it up once it's been flagged but you have to go through like an age gate thing and i don't think there's ads on them or anything like that so it's like a weird part of youtube where and those are

the ones it's like the 18 and older club like they've been flagged and brought back up that's how the sign-in thing happens no no so some of them are you got you guys never had a video flag i'm guessing ever uh actually yes you yes. You have? We did. We had, it's actually an interesting story because it was the video that I think is partially responsible for our popularity on YouTube initially. Oh, you mean the pornographic one? I don't remember. Really, guys? A video of my son.

A video of my son who was three years old at the time. He was crying about NC State UNC game That's where we're from North Carolina And my wife and I Filmed our son And we put it on

Our personal channel Because he was Distraught about The Wolfpack Losing to the Tar Heels Yeah right And he was just So distraught

And it was hilarious But he just so happened To be in his underoos. Yeah, he was just a three-year-old in his, like, tighty-whities or whatever. And that got flagged? Well, it got taken down twice on my personal channel, which I don't have anymore.

Whoa. And then I was like, I'm putting this up on our channel. Then YouTube contacted us and said, contacted you and said, we want to feature this video on the homepage because everyone's talking about it. It's hilarious, but it's been taken down. So we didn't take it down is what you said. And so you explained it to him and then you re-uploaded it and we had a conversation. Should we, we should re-upload it to the Rhett and Link channel because we were just trying to get started. This is on his personal channel. And we put like a, we put a watermark

at rhettandlink.com watermark in the video. Yeah. We went all the way. We were like, let's take advantage of this thing. If YouTube's going to feature it. So it went from being flagged and taken down to being featured by YouTube who asked to have it put back up. That's incredible. So that just goes to show you the state of YouTube at the time. That's an underdog story. That's like an inspiring film that should be made. So a slightly different approach. But yeah, our content's different. So we haven't experienced the flagging.

Gotcha. We don't typically shoot kids in their underwear and put it on our channel. Yeah, that's true. We don't make a habit of that. Good. That's good. I appreciate that as an American. Right.

Thank you. But I mean, okay, so yeah. So we've worked with some naked Russian men. I've been supposedly naked, but I think that's a, there's a little bit of a contrast there because if somebody's going to be naked in one of our videos, there's a good chance that it's going to be one of us. You made kind of a decision early on to be, to say, you know what, I'm going to approach this YouTube thing a little bit differently than everyone else was approaching it. You were going to be the creative force behind it, but not necessarily be the face of it.

Right. So how did that happen? Yeah, I think I wanted, well, my initial idea was to do, try and do like an SNL type show where it was, you know, I could just create it. And, you know,

like Lorne Michaels comes out every once in a while at SNL. You know, he's the big guy behind it. But, you know, he'll do some funny like stuff as himself. But he doesn't really play characters. He's not really an actor. He doesn't pretend to be either. Yeah.

He just likes funny people and, you know, puts them together and kind of keeps that show going. He's more a producer-director guy. And so I thought, oh, I could do that on YouTube in a small sort of way. I could do one a week, two a week, you know, sketches. And, you know, I could pay for them myself and get funny actors and things. And I just always approached everything I did as a writer, director, producer because that's always what I wanted to do. But, you know, making a feature film, it costs so much money and so much time and so many people and great script. And so there were so many things in the way of blocking for me to make feature films at that time.

Because when I started, I think I was 19 or 20. or no i was i was yeah it's 20 so well where was the uh filmmaker spark ignited when did that happen i think what happened was uh i think at an early age my parents like loved movies loved comedies and i got to see them all like that was the communal thing like we'd always you know my parents both worked and so when when we did spend time together at nights weekends and like they were great parents uh we would watch movies we would go to movies you know we'd see comedy shows like i remember seeing rodney dangerfield when i was like 10 years old really like Stuff that, whoa, why am I... I knew it was something interesting

going on. I knew most kids weren't doing that because I would... My parents would like to go see comedy shows. In San Diego, we had a lot of good comics come through. A couple times throughout my youth, we went to Vegas. Being a kid in Vegas, you can't do anything. Except at night, somehow they got me into

comedy shows or concerts or whatever, the cool stuff you could do. So I got to see George Carlin before he died when I was, I don't know, 12. And it's just like, and then I would go back to school and be like, yeah, I saw George Carlin over the weekend. No kid 12 year old knew who George Carlin was. I was just like this weird kid. And then so I actually had older friends. And when I had those older friends at a young age, I could then talk to them about movies and comics and, you know, kind of the things that were interesting to me. And they exposed me to more, you know, funny people and, you know, like, oh, you got to listen to this. Or like, oh, do you know who Steve Martin is? Like, oh, not just from these movies, but like go listen to his old comedy specials and, you know, read this book.

and his little comedy specials, and, you know, read this book. And it was just like, there was a lot of that kind of information and education that I got, not from school, but from just being interested in films and comedy that helped me, you know, just always be interested. So from a very young age, I was always kind of, I don't know, I was like this weird only child who was, you know, listening to comedy albums and reading about directors. Yeah, it's interesting that you're, I mean, most everyone's into some form of entertainment, I mean, most everyone's into some form of entertainment, but to have parents, real estate agent parents who seem to be both passionate about comedy, it seems to be very interesting. You know those real estates, they're horrible senses of humor. It's not that.

It's just that I don't know that I've... They weren't like Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross real estate agents. They weren't like cutthroat bloody you know whatever they were you know nice people well i just don't they didn't have bus bench you know ads they were like they were like the nice real estate yeah i think real estate i don't i don't think that i just don't think that i've ever met a couple that like oh their thing is comedy yeah they're really into comedy that's cool and they kind of trained you up into that i mean for you to be able to say you saw the greats who are dead yeah and at the age of like 11

12 that's that's pretty cool yeah but that takes kind of a special sensibility from your parents that that must have been kind of a thing for them they were always the audience they were always like the quintessential audience. So I don't know that it was so much that they were like, they weren't like comedy snobs. They're not like, Oh, this kind of comedy is better than this kind. And I, you know, I only listened to George Cullen. Like I would never like, you know, whoever, you know, like they like everybody. They like Jerry Seinfeld. They like Frank Caliendo. They like anyone who can make them laugh. They're not snobbish about it. No, but personality-wise, they were obviously fans of comedy,

but was your household one where they were cracking jokes and you were cracking jokes? A little bit. My parents were like the most hilariously unintentional funny people ever. Like they would not try, but then they would acknowledge how ridiculous something was. I didn't mean to do that, but it was funny. Yeah. Well, my it was funny. Yeah. Well, my dad was pretty hilarious. He was sort of like Joe Pesci a little bit.

Like a Joe Pesci, Alec Baldwin type. He feels like an East Coast mob guy, but he's not. He's San Diego. He has literally no mob connections whatsoever. But I don't know. All my friends were like, is your dad in the mob? He wore rings, and he had like he wore rings and he had like

dark like olive skin and you know hair slicked back and like drove a black like sedan like hey you wanna buy this house that's the best I can do

you do wanna buy this house trust me yeah he kinda had that vibe and then he was really clumsy and so he had that look and then he would like spill something on him he would always he wore really clumsy. And so he had that look. And then he would like spill something on him.

He would always, he wore really nice like suits for real estate. And then he would always spill something on it. And he would just curse up a storm. And then it's just my mom would just laugh. And then he was just like, you know. I'm picturing like Marlon Brando meets Columbo. That's what I'm picturing. That's not bad.

That's not far off. Yeah. That's pretty much right there. I can see Columbo with a stain on his shirt. Yeah. No, and my mom, you know, she loves comedy. And, yeah, she was really funny. And, you know, she actually, she told me this recently.

When I was little, you know, like they read, like, you know, Goodnight Moon and the Bernstein Bears and, like, certain normal kid books. She also read me joke books, like tons of joke books, like just from a young age. I think it wasn't so much for me. It was more like she knew she just had to read me something so I'd go to sleep. And so after a while, you run out of books, she'd just start reading jokes. And then so it would like amuse her. Okay.

So she could like stay up to actually read me something. Because some of those kid books, it's like, you know, Mr. Bear goes to the pantry. What's in the pantry? Oh, a glass of milk. Yeah, right. I'm familiar with that. You're familiar? Oh, Mr. Bear goes to the pantry. What's in the pantry? Oh, a glass of milk. Yeah, right. I'm familiar with that. You're familiar? Oh, yeah.

You got a baby. You know what's going on. But you didn't want to become a comedian. You ended up wanting to become a filmmaker. So how did it was, you know, you're watching the film. So that was your connection? Well, at first, I thought I wanted to be a, I recently figured out that I wanted to be an entertainer is really what I wanted to be. And that's still what I want to do.

Just directing is sort of the form that I like the most and it's the one that I'm most comfortable with, I think, out of all the different ways you can entertain somebody from magic to being a comedian to an actor to a novelist to anything. to being a comedian to an actor to, you know, a novelist to anything. So, yeah, being a kid, I wanted to be an actor at first. I thought I did. But it was really I wanted to entertain people because I liked the idea of making people laugh and getting a reaction. Like in school, I started telling jokes and started, like, trying to be funny and all that.

And, you know, I had a good run as a class clown in a few classes. And, you know, I always had an entertaining group of friends. We'd always like, you know, we were like into comedy growing up. And so it was a lot of that. But then I think the directing kind of came in when I realized that being an actor was going to be such a nightmare because so many other people want to be an actor. And that path seems so narrow. And so, like, I didn't know how to break in.

And this was happening in high school? Yeah, at a young age. Okay. Because my parents, when I wanted to be an actor, my parents were really supportive and they actually took me out and, like, got me some acting classes for, like, kid actors. And, like, I went on some auditions. They would drive me up to L.A. and I went on, I don't know, 20 auditions or something. And so I did, I made a noble effort as a kid to try and be an actor. But like doing that process, I would read a commercial, like I'd read the sides for

a Chapstick commercial and the lines for the kid would be like, my name's Billy and I love cherry Chapstick because it puts it on my lips and it's good. Cherry Chapstick. And it's just like, that's, those are the words. And and it's like i can't do anything with those words man like there's nothing like there's nothing good that i could ever show you with those words kind of makes me want chapstick i mean to be honest with you thank you uh but it was one of those things where i would they were literally all like that and i just started realizing like there's no point in us doing this i kind of like i had a group you know i had a chat with my parents and it was just like you know if this is what acting is, this isn't what I thought acting is, and if this is what acting is, I don't think this is what I want to do.

I want to entertain people. And so then my parents started talking, like, well, you're saying what someone else wrote. This is what someone else has come up with for their product or for whatever it is. You know, if you want to just entertain people, you should try and figure out ways to, you know, make your own stories and make your own dialogue and things. And so that started putting in my head of like, oh, you should make your own stuff. How did that start? Well, I think it started with just, you know, I got my dad's, you know, old, you know, VHS digital camera.

I think he had that one and then I had the Hi8 camera. We shot Hi8 and then I got the Mini DV. That was my progression. Oh, yeah. And basically, it started with making kind of like jackass style videos with my friends

where they would put them in shopping carts and throw them down a hill. I'd be on rollerblades trying to film them and catch funny things. And then some stuff where I would...

It's like all the typical little kid movies where you have your friends dress up in suits and they wear sunglasses and you have little orange guns and you're playing mobsters and someone's got to get the briefcase and save the lady in the top of your parents' house. Right, right. It's really ridiculous.

And this is before YouTube. Oh, yeah. This is, you know, this is 1999. I started filming things, like messing around filming things, I think in fourth grade. Like I think what I learned pretty quick in school was that if I didn't have to do the essay, I didn't have to write a long essay or do a book report.

I could actually just go film a reenactment or make my own movie interpretation. So it started as just, oh, I was making things, not thinking of, oh, I'm a director. I'm like just making stuff for school projects. Just creating. Yeah, creating. And then – and actually the real moment that I think I switched to filmmaking – and this is sounding probably so boring to anyone who's listening. Who cares? But I basically, my parents found out about this thing, New York Film Academy, which they have them all over the place now.

They had one in L.A. at the time. They just started. Well, that's confusing. I know. It's basically like a subway. They have them everywhere. Okay. Or McDonald's.

But yeah, so New York Film Academy is basically like a subway. They have them everywhere. Okay. Or McDonald's. But yeah, so New York Film Academy is basically like a franchise film school. They started in New York and then the next one they brought out was to LA. And then now I think they have them in Prague and Paris and all kinds of cool places. Okay. But the one in LA was so cool because they had to deal with Universal's backlot where you could film on some of their sets. They had New York Street and they had the Jaws know, whatever else that was available at the time. Western Town, you know. And they would let you film there for your project as a student.

And it was like, oh my God, this is incredible. And you were how old at this time? I was 14. I was 14. Wow. And I said, I got to go to this thing. And so I begged my parents and they they let me go for a summer and I did a six-week program there where you shoot we shot 16 millimeter sync sound film oh wow yeah old school old school so

and then there was a choice there because they had an acting program and a film program and it was the choice of which one do I want to go and I realized then if I went into the acting program I would not be able to use the sets and I wouldn't be able to make my own thing and who knows if I'll even get cast in something yeah I just go there and be doing vocal warm-ups read and learn how to read monologues and then that's it and I said nah you know I'll learn directing and if I really want to I'll cast myself if I really want to and but I ended up not casting myself because I'm not an actor I'm more more of like a, I could do something funny on camera maybe,

but it's more of a, you know, just more of a guy. I'm a guy. Yeah. A guy who can talk. So, I mean, you know, this is an opportunity that a lot of, you know, not many 14-year-olds have, you know, to get this kind of training, to get this kind of support from your parents. Where did that lead?

Because you had four more years of high school, I guess, and then you graduate, and then not long after that, just a couple years, you're, hey, I'm going to do this YouTube thing. What happened in those ending high school, did you go to college? What happened in that time period? Yes, so yeah, what happened is all throughout high school,

so I did the New York Film Academy in between the year of middle school to high school. Okay. In between those years, in that summer, the six weeks,

I did this film camp and it changed my life because I shot, you know, some 16 millimeter short films. I cast SAG actors as a 14 year old. Like I literally like

cold called actors and put on a voice at 14. Like, hi, I'm Michael Gallagher from MJG Productions. How are you doing today? Uh, Mr. You know, St. John. Yes. Uh, we have a role for you that we'd love to have you come in for. Uh, it'll be Sunday, August 5th or whatever it was. And so I just like had this like speech that I wrote down and I just did a radio voice and called actors and got, and got people. And I had a crew and we were all like 14 and we made short films. These actors show up and they're like, kid, where's the director? Where's the guy?

I talked to him on the phone. And why am I talking like this? I had a lot of that. Yeah. Actually, there's one actor. The first actor I ever hired, this guy, Billy St. John, he's great. He was actually in Mr. Deeds. You know that?

Adam Sandler movie. He was in this like dinner scene where he's like's with all these fancy New York socialites, and he writes for the New Yorker. And they make fun of him, and then Adam Sandler beats the crap out of him. It's a pretty funny scene. So he had a couple lines in that Adam Sandler movie. So I saw his headshot, and I was like, I got to get this guy, because I just saw Mr. Deeds. I was 14.

I'm like, this would be the coolest thing ever to work with this guy. And so I called him up and somehow coaxed him to come out and he was in my short film and he thought literally it wasn't until years later because I cast him and everything that he was like oh my god I thought you were like 30 years old he's like I thought you were just like a short thin guy

I just didn't know he's like how old you were 14 what's going on? I mean, it was really funny, but he's the coolest guy. And I pretty much put him in everything I ever do. But so that period really changed my life. And so then when I went back to high school, it was like this, that I was like hooked. It was like crack. I just smoked crack and I'm hooked hard. My teeth are falling out. I am making movies. Like that was what I was going to do. So I was a weird kid where, you know, when I, when we could do a, you know, a book report on something, I'd be like, Hey, can I do my book report on Sid

Fields book about storytelling and screenwriting? And they'd be like, sure. And then I would read a whole book about screenwriting. Yeah. report on it. Knowing what you wanted to do as like a freshman in high school, you were able to kind of gear your high school experience toward your trajectory as a filmmaker. I treated it like college, yes. I tried to treat it like college as the most I could because I just couldn't wait. I was so antsy after that summer. So did you create like a high school opus? Did I?

No. Well, you know, it was like a ton of short projects is really what it was. I didn't make like a feature film through high school. That would have been cool. It was always my dream to do a feature film, but I never had the – I didn't have the right idea to do a full feature. And I couldn't sit still to really write like a full 90-page film. So at that time, it was just tons of shorts, music videos.

And then I, you know, I don't know. I just had this like, you know, confidence and courage where I felt like I could get jobs. Like I have been to film school. I don't really film camp, but I've been to film school. I've been to film school. I don't really film camp, but I've been to film school. I know enough about film equipment and either DP. Because at the film school, what's cool is you switch off positions with everybody in your class.

It's like going to film school in a way where you get to DP someone else's project and do sound and gaff and edit and do everything. So you do every position. So I had a pretty good understanding of everything. And so I just applied that to everything I did making short films. So then I would submit my short films to film festivals. I got in. And then I would apply for directing jobs. I got some of them.

Like I directed a few commercials, a few music videos when I was 15, 16 years old. I did a commercial that was a music video hybrid commercial ad with the band Sha Na Na who played at Woodstock back in the day for the PT Cruiser for a local car commercial. For a local car commercial, man. Did that sound familiar? Yeah. So what was the angle on that? They had a song called The Cat and the PT Cruiser, and I did a music video with the

band Sha Na Na, and I got a little crappy crane. I got paid a few thousand dollars, and this is like 16, and I directed a a music video with the band Sean and I got a little crappy crane. I got paid a few thousand dollars. This is like 16. I directed a whole music video, got my friends to boom and do the whole thing. Edited it on Final Cut, which I had. I did not know. Nobody told me what are the specs that you have to go out for for TV, all the specific export information or any of that.

So I just kind of winged it and just acted like I knew what was going on. I had no idea. And it aired locally. It aired in San Diego. As a commercial. Yep. Do you remember seeing it on TV? I do.

It was very exciting. And then I remember getting calls from relatives about it. Because my mom would say, oh, Michael's doing this thing. Right. No, no, no. Yeah, exactly. Now, we make cameos in all of our local commercials. relatives about it because I would you know my mom would you know say oh you know Michael's doing this thing and then right not enough yeah exactly now we make cameos in all of our local

commercials did you do that because I didn't Hitchcock it no I read Lincoln I didn't read Lincoln no I should have you should have done

that you'd have more relatives calling you it would have been weird for like were you in the back of that PT Cruiser for a second it was literally

it was literally all 60 year old dudes so if it was like one 15-year-old boy, it would have been a little weird, maybe. Yeah, just let the 15-year-old boy be the director. That'll make a lot more sense. Was the angle that the entire band can fit into the PT Cruiser because it's kind of like a clown car?

We literally had all the band members in the car. Of course. Yeah, no, there was no angle to the music video. It was just like, you know, I'd figured out, I'd watched enough music videos at that point, I was like, alright, music video. It was just like, you know, I figured out, I'd watched enough music videos at that point. I was like, all right, all we got to do is film Sean and I in four different locations and put them in different positions.

I was so nervous going into that shoot. I actually remember, because I remember they had like, for some reason it was like a really big deal. Like they had like press, because Sean and I hadn't done a music video in like forever. Like they hadn't done anything in a long time. They'd just done like concerts. deal like they had like press because Sean and I hadn't done a music video in like forever like they hadn't done anything in a long time they'd just done like concerts and so they had like press like they had like news anchors and they had like people on the set like filming us film the thing and then they did like a news segment of it and then wrote

articles on it it was a big deal so I remember 15 I remember getting to set yeah I took the train up from San Diego to go to LA because we did half the video in LA, half in San Diego. And I took the train up and I had my XL2 in my case and then I was with a buddy and I had a tripod and literally that's all we brought to this video because we were doing an outdoor shoot and we were like, oh yeah, we'll bounce some light and we'll figure it out.

Like it was so ghetto. And I show up, there's all these press people and Sean and I'm like, um, the PA's here. He has a tripod and a camera. So I literally was like, oh, yeah, this is great, guys. Excuse me for just one moment. And then I just went away and I went to the bathroom and I had to pep talk myself as a 16-year-old.

And then I got the courage and threw some water in my face and went back out there and said, okay, let's do this. And then I just started putting on director mode. Killed it. Killed it. Boom. Local TV commercial so that was that like the high school highlight yeah I was only I wore that thing like a trophy I went around no I should have and what from there um yeah so it was like a lot of that kind of stuff in high school so then from there I uh I went to LMU for one semester. I went for

one semester and at the same, you know, when I was going to college, my parents said, you know, we'll help you out for a little bit, but you know, you're really on your own here. Like you got to pay for school, you have to pay for your living expenses, everything, which is, you know, which is great. I actually, I think because it made me say, I want to become financially independent right now. Not because I want to, but I actually very, very much really have to. Right. And what, what'd you decide to study there? Cause you didn't decide to go to like USC film school or something like that. Oh, I applied everywhere, but no, I did not. I didn't get into a lot of, I got into Chapman, but I didn't get into their film school. It was very competitive at the time. Okay. So you were

trying to get into, I tried to get into a film school. Yeah. I would submit it to like NYU and USC. And I think, I don't think I submitted to UCLA. But yeah, I got into Santa Cruz. And then I got into LMU and Chapman. Those are the three colleges I got in. Because my grades, you know, they weren't that great. But, you know, because I was really spending so much time doing all this filmmaking stuff that I was so not interested in whatever book report on, you know.

So how does this get to YouTube? Connect those dots for us. So, yeah, to kind of like throw a stone in a pond and skip through a lot of this. Basically, I was one of the first people that was a part of the station, you know, the YouTube channel station. I was a behind the first people that was a part of the station, you know, the YouTube channel station. I was a behind-the-scenes person. I got hired on by those guys to help direct and write and produce. So did Danny hire you? Yeah, I got hired by Danny and Lisa and Ben back in the day.

Who did you know? I knew Lisa Nova from the YouTube Live. I spent time with her there with Days on Day. Flash forward, you know, two years or a year and a half, once station's over, once Station's over, now it's Maker, people are trying to make videos. There's this guy, Glasgow Phillips, who used to be a writer on South Park that they brought

in to help write sketches and funny things and just kind of come up with funny stuff. He was hanging around and he used like, you know, someone's got to do a movie with all these YouTubers. Someone's got to do something. And I was like, yeah, I know. I want to do it. We're just doing shorts. I want to do a movie. We these YouTubers. Someone's gotta do something. And I was like, yeah, I know. I wanna do it. We're just doing shorts. I wanna do a movie.

We gotta do this thing. And so, he had this idea of doing this horror film and using Chatroulette at the time as it was a big thing. I didn't even know Chatroulette was around back then. Yeah. It was around, it came out in like, what,

2010, 11? 2010? No, it was 2010, I think. That was when it hit. That was like, that. Yeah, it was around. It came out in like, what, 2010, 11? Okay. 2010? No, it was 2010, I think. That was when it hit. That was like, that was the summer, I remember. It was like a big deal. Okay, so you said, let's build the movie around something like that. Yeah, he was like, that would be so cool to do like a, you know, horror movie, like where

there's killers, you know, showing up behind people in a Chat Roulette, and it's random, so you don't know who that person is. And, you know, that sounds like a scary premise. And you're like, yeah, that is good. And so he so he's like okay so he went away and just wrote this whole movie and it was just like a it was like a conversation it was very conversational at first and then he came back and he was just like i got your movie script here you go and he just sent me this movie script and it was like oh my god this is amazing and then uh so i collaborate i started collaborating with him he wrote the first draft and then after that we sort of co-wrote

it together. We started coming up with more specific bits to it. Because he churned the script out in a couple weeks. Oh, wow. He's quite the writer. And so then it became this long process of developing this project while doing totally sketch. And then trying to raise money for it. And we tried to do the traditional route. We took it to some studios and got formal meetings and had really fancy water and fleming which is lovely uh and but you know people didn't

want you know at that time they weren't ready to take a chance and say oh i don't know if these youtubers are you know a big deal i don't know if they're going to translate to a movie and what talent was attached at first i imagine no one no one was attached okay moi so you myself and moi you weren't you weren't able to throw around a shaneson or a Lisa Nova or a DeFranco or anybody like that wasn't involved early on. I told them that I was – because I didn't want to just attach people and get people's hopes up. Because that's the other thing. I don't like to tell people something until it's real. So I'm never going to say, hey, I got this great project right in the league.

Let's do this thing. And then five years later, I'm like, we're going to get the money. It's going to happen. We're going to get you guys back on TV. And it's like, no, I would never do that. I would come to you and say, this is real. So I like to be that kind of guy. So I didn't really approach people, but I had worked, like Shane had, you know, said, Michael, I want to work with you from doing all the station videos.

So we became friends. And so I would direct a lot of videos for his channel. And I became a director for a lot of other people's channel in addition to my own. So I was known as like, hey, if you're a talent and you need a director, just call me up and I'll come and I'll whip you up a video. And so I kind of got that reputation. So I had sort of worked with enough YouTubers where I kind of got like, okay, Shane, he's a great actor. Like he, he does this crazy comedy, but he can do anything. And I got that intention and hearing him talk, I knew that he wanted to do more. So there were certain people that I was friends with

that I was working with that I got the sense that there's more to them than what they're just showing on YouTube. And that if I have the right opportunity with this film, we're going to pull the trigger and we're going to do something great. But how much money did you need to get? That was the thing. It was like, we were trying to raise money and just, you know, sell it and do a studio thing and for, you know, six months and it wasn't going well. And I was getting so antsy because we were working on the movie and I said, you know, screw it. I'm going to put in my own money and we're going to make this thing. And I do not so antsy because we were working on the movie, and I said, you know, screw it. I'm going to put in my own money, and we're going to make this thing. And I do not have a lot of money, guys.

So we got to figure this thing out. So we put it together, and basically we did this movie for $200,000. So that was like every penny I had. I was like, this is all I've saved up. This is everything. Everything I made from directing. First of all, that's quite a nest egg for you to have that sitting around. So that's.

Yeah. And then to be willing to put it all in on this one project. Put all the chips on red. For real. Well, and again, back to the genre switch to say, okay, I'm going to put this nest egg into something that is not kind of what you were raised on and what you had been working on to say okay i'm gonna do this genre film horror like how did you make the transition like when you first read that script were you like uh because i know

like for the scripts that the few scripts full features that i've read. I can read a comedy and I'm like, I know when something's funny. Read a drama sometimes, I'm like, I don't know if this is good or not. It's like I can't. I don't know if this is dramatic right now. Right, exactly, you know? Because I know comedy.

So when you read the horror genre. I don't know if this is scary. Yeah, you're right. I don't know what kind of music should be this part. I don't know. I think I just, because I was so into filmmaking at that time. To me, it was like it didn't matter what genre.

I was so hungry. I was like, I got to make a movie. It was in my blood. I was like, I got to do it. And just doing all these shorts, you know, I love doing shorts, but it was just like something I always wanted to do was make a film. And so whether it was a horror, dramatic movie, or comedy, it didn, it didn't really matter or musical. I would have done anything at that moment. So this script came along, I saw that it could be done on a low enough budget. And I love,

I actually love horror movies. So, and I love them in a way that I'm not like, or I'm like, yeah, I want to see blood and I want to see the chainsaw, cut the girl's head off. I'm like, not that guy. You know, there's some horror fans that that's all they want to see blood. I want to see the chainsaw cut the girl's head off. I'm like, not that guy. There's some horror fans that that's all they want to see. They just want to see chainsaws. Yeah, they're like gore fiends, and that's not me. I like the older stuff, like Rosemary's Baby or The Shining or Repulsion. I like all the Roman Polanski old horror movies.

They're so scary. Even The Tenant. If you ever watch that, it's the scariest movie ever. movies are so scary. Even The Tenant. If you've ever watched that, it's the scariest movie ever. It's literally about a man going crazy in an apartment after this woman who went crazy there. And all of a sudden, he's just dressing

like this woman at the end of the movie and throwing himself out a window. It's just like, what? Your mind melts when you watch that movie. It's like, why is this happening? You're in a nightmare. So you weren't just a comedy guy and you were so hungry to make a movie that this was gonna happen. was going to happen. It was going to happen. There was no doubt in your mind.

It was kind of like the Shauna Na commercial. Hey, I got the opportunity. Got the PT Cruiser. I'm going to kill it. Yeah, exactly. It didn't matter what it was. I've tried to be open to the things that come my way. I have this feeling that when the universe opens up and sends you something, there's a reason.

And maybe the reason is to say no. But for the most part, most things that come my way, I find an in. Like I look at it and I say, oh, like that, I know how to do that. Maybe if I don't know how to do that right away, I get interested in the idea that I want to figure this out. How can this be done? And so you put the money in. I put the money in.

You start organizing the production. Yep. Yeah, I got this producer, Michael Wormser, who had done some, you know, he had done movies in that budget range before. And he knew where we needed to spend the money and where we could get away with not spending the money. Because most movies, you know, a good one, you spend some bucks on. Yeah. Unless you do it really, like, stripped down where it's found footage, you know. And it's just, you know, your HVX and a bucks on. Yeah. Unless you do it really like stripped down where it's found footage, you know,

and it's just, you know, your HVX and a couple of guys. But like a comparable film to that, to yours, typically just to give people a point of reference, what the budget would be? I'd say three to 5 million. Okay.

Yeah. That's what I've been told from watching the movie, what most people would spend on a movie like that, you know, three to 5 million. And so it was something that it was, you know three to five million um and so it was something that it was you know an exciting challenge and i love a challenge now we i i have not seen the movie oh i have seen the trailer and based on the trailer i ain't seeing your movie

i mean i'm not gonna you know and i'm not gonna apologize for that because i know like it is scary movies really oh you have fun i like you oh thank you but i don it is scary movies. Really? Oh, you have fun. I like you. Oh, thank you. But I don't like scary movies, and I don't care if you've made it. It's called Smiley. Dude. It can't be that scary.

It's deceptive. Evidently, you spent a majority of the budget on making that mask scary. So how did you make this mask? How do we make the mask? The more you kind of tell me how you made it, the more I'll be like, oh, it's not real. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's just rubber.

You know it looks scary as all get out. If I tell you enough about the making of it, you'll... Right. Yeah, maybe you'll watch it. I might watch it. Yeah, you'll red box it. Yeah, no, it's... And I hope you're not offended by that.

I'm not. No, no, I'm not. I'm just being honest. My mom hasn't seen the movie. I just, I'm scared. No, you know, I totally understand. In a way, I haven't seen the movie, if you know what I mean. But the mask was something that, I don't know, I'm just a sick person, I guess. But I had this, when we were coming up with the idea, originally it wasn't

like a supernatural creature thing. It was more of a guy with a stocking over his face who sort of painted on with like lipstick or a red marker. He'd painted on like x's or a smiley face or something like that and i just didn't think like oh that's not a if you go see that movie i'm not scared that's a guy in a stocking you got you got a panty on his head uh you know so i don't know i don't know what it was but it was somewhere in the time where i was developing it with Glasgow that I had this vision of like, oh, well, what if it's like a skin face and it's a stitched in smile and the smile looks like an emoticon, you know? For some reason, that came into my head and then I drew it and I started drawing it and showed it to people and then I did a mock-up in Photoshop and I'd show it to people and

they would freak out. And I'm like, this is it. We got something. I knew I was like, if I can literally show a Photoshop picture on my phone to someone and have them cower in fear and literally shout and scream obscenities in public, I knew I was onto something. But how was it made? How was it made?

It was foam rubber. It's foam rubber. An actual man's face. It was actually the butt of a man. We took a butt. We need enough skin. I didn't know you were involved in the butt of a man. We took a butt. We need enough skin. I didn't know you were involved in the production of this mask. I was a consultant.

I said, you need to get the butt of a man. You don't remember Rhett walking funny from 2011? Yeah, yeah. I got to carry a big wallet now to kind of even everything out. Because it was just one butt, one side, one cheek. Okay, sorry. No, so we hired a special effects makeup team who did our makeup for the whole movie. And I showed them the mock-up that I had.

And they kind of helped figure out how the heck to make this thing. And what we did was we got the actor who was going to play Smiley, this guy Michael Trenore, who's a great actor. Very selfless because he had to wear this mask where you really couldn't see and you really couldn't breathe in this thing because the eyes were not lined up with human eyes. They were too close. And everything

was stitched up so well that you could barely breathe and barely see. So he's running around. He's like Ray Charles. He does not know where he is at any moment. You mean he's a talented musician? He's a very talented black musician. No, he's a great guy. And what we'd have to do is set him up on a path and say,

okay, you got about 50 yards. You're going to be chasing a girl. You got a knife in your hand. An action. Good luck. Good luck. God bless. No, he was a super sport.

But we had to mold his face, get a mold to his face, and then they created this foam latex mask over his face. Like they did the molding, and then they created this great mask. This guy, George Costanza and Greg McDougal, they just did it in their space in the valley. George Costanza. Yeah. Really?

Yeah. I didn't know a character could actually have a real-life position. That'sanza. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I didn't know a character could actually have a real life position. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. Okay, so, it's one feat

to make a movie for $200,000. Sorry, did I say George Costanza? I meant Steve Costanza. Oh. In case he listens. No, I've been watching

Seinfeld, sorry. Yeah, I was like, George, okay. Yeah, George Costanza. So that's quite an accomplishment, making a movie for that budget. But then you accomplish something that very few people who do low-budget movies accomplish. You actually got theatrical distribution. How did that happen?

We did, yes. How did that happen? We basically made the movie, put the trailer on the YouTubes, because it had Mr. Shane Dawson, Mr. Toby Turner, Mr. Daystorm Power, and Totally Sketch. We all talked about it the first week that the trailer went up. So, Nicky is in it, right? Nicky Limo, Steve Green, Jason Horton,

Brie Esrig, Shauna Malcolm. I'm leaving out somebody Richard Ryan I can hear my heartbeat George Costanza George Costanza Jerry Seif Elaine so everybody's in it

and everybody pushed to it the first week from their YouTube channels they all talked about it or they had a link in their annotations to say, hey, we're in a movie. Check out the trailer. And so in the first three days, it got a million views. It got on the homepage.

It just started like it was a snowball effect. And once it kind of took off. And I remember that. I took notice then. Yeah. Yeah. It just kind of kept going. It was weird.

After that first week, it literally would get 100,000 views a day. 50 to 100,000 views a day. And as an observer, it was okay, YouTuber's in a movie, okay, yeah, roll the eyes, I know what this is about to be. And then I watch it, and it's like, whoa, there's that dude who's the actor who I recognize from a lot of stuff with the voice,

and he's awesome, and whoa, did you see that? I hope that mask is not real a real but i'm not watching this movie this is for reals and it so it it you know so you're saying you got all these views you got all this buzz whoa a million in a week kind of a thing yeah and it took it but it wasn't you know that that was just marketing, but the trailer as a product was impressive and still is. Thank you. Now, yeah, I think the internet kind of cocked its head to the side and said, what is this thing? Because there's all these YouTubers in it.

It's on Totally Sketches' channel who does comedy, and there's real actors in there. And is this a parody? Is this a real movie? It seems real, but when's it coming out? And it's just like, what? There's so many questions. And what was your answer to those questions at the time? What was the plan? Radio silence. No, I, you know,

at that time we were still, we had just shot the film in 2011, the summer and put that trailer out November 2011 and just said, I knew it was going to come out next year. I thought it was going to be out by the summer or something. But we were still editing. We didn't even have the finished movie. And we were just like, let's put was going to come out next year. I thought it was going to be out by the summer or something. But we were still editing. We didn't even have the finished movie.

Yeah. And we were just like, let's put the trailer out and see what happens. What's the worst that can happen? Right. The worst thing that happens is nobody likes it. Okay, we'll fix it later. And it'll just, nobody will know. But it just kind of took off. And then it became this weird sort of urban legend thing that people were wondering what

it was and it was getting passed around. of urban legend thing that people were wondering what it was and it was getting passed around. So it kind of caught us off guard and it changed our whole perspective because originally I knew the very minimum I could make this movie, release it like say on iTunes and, you know, just kind of put it on a website for five bucks to do a Louis C.K. kind of thing and just give it to the people and just say, here you go, here's a movie. I knew that we could just do that and that there would be some people that would want to watch it just because of, you know, it's so weird and random and there's, you know, some people in it that you'd watch on YouTube. So I knew at the very minimum I could do that.

But once this trailer took off, we just started getting all this interest from people in Hollywood. And so we started doing all these meetings with all these big studios where we just started getting all this interest from people in Hollywood. And so we started doing all these meetings with all these big studios where we just had the trailer and we were editing the movie. And they were like, we want to see this movie. We want to distribute this movie. We met with Paramount and Relativity and all these big studios that were very interested. And we were like, oh, my God, we better make a good movie. Now the pressure's on.

All of a sudden we had this pressure. We didn't realize, oh, my God,, now we got to make this thing actually good. And so during that process, we would edit it and put it together. And what we'd find is we'd show it to the studios and they'd really like it. Like we had these great meetings and like they had four, five screenings at Paramount. Like they just kept wanting to see it. Like more, they got more and more people to come see it at each time. And the final consensus for them was, you know, if you,

you know, it's sort of in the middle between a $20 million movie and like a $1 million movie. And we don't release movies that don't look like $20 million movies. And then we just don't have that in our system.

And it was just like, oh, and it's like, but we like it. We really like it. We see all the potential. We see everything. But yeah, we just don't have that system set up. So it was just like, oh, it's like, but we like it. We really like it. We see all the potential. We see everything, but yeah, we just don't have that system set up. So it was just like this weird thing where it was like, oh, that's flattering, but you're not going to release the movie. Okay. So then we kind of had that experience with a few different studios and then

we realized like, oh, well there's interest, but nobody wants to pull the trigger. So let's just do it the same way that we made the movie where I just funded it, where let's just try and get it in theaters ourselves. Let's just do that. So we went to AMC directly, went to AMC theaters. And they had this program called AMC Independent. I still have it, where basically they will, if they like the movie, they'll distribute it in their theaters for free. But you have to bring the people. You have to pay for the marketing and you have to handle all the stuff,

deliver the movie, but they will give you the theater space and they'll split the profits of whatever you make in the movie theater for, you know. And how many screens are we talking about? We did 28 screens, yeah. And that was all over the US. So, okay, all over major cities, that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. And so we went in and showed them the movie, and they loved it. And it was literally like we had all these meetings at all these studios. It took months. It was just like months of meetings and meetings. We had one meeting with AMC. They watched the movie the next time, and they said, how many theaters do you guys want? And it was literally just like, what?

And they were in. They were just in on the deal. They were like, we want this. We want to put it out. So then it was like, yeah, okay, well, we want it out in October. We want it on October 11th. Yeah, let's do that. And they're like, okay, great.

And then it was like, oh, my God, that's in four months. We have to tell everybody about this movie. And so then we did our darndest to do this marketing push to try and get the word out with, like, no budget to tell people about this movie, which I highly advise to have some money if you're going to put a movie in theaters to tell people about it because it's very expensive. Now, and at some point throughout this process, I don't know if this was after the release

or during the ramp up to it, there was a situation where all of a sudden a lot of personal information from people involved in the film, including you, was put out there online and uh death threat death threats death threats give us the download on this tell us what happened with that god i'm just reliving it's like living in smiley uh so yes so what happened was and is this the type of thing that like you've moved on and like oh i've got to reaccess this this isaccess this. This is a painful part of my life kind of thing? No,

it's, yeah, I mean, because Smiley in general was like, you know, two and a half years of my life. Like it was such a big part

of just, it was like birthing this thing. Yeah. It was like having a two, it was like being pregnant for two years and then like, and then raising,

like leaving the baby, like teaching the baby how to crawl and then kind of abandoning it after that. It's a weird process. But no, it's not painful to talk about. But basically what happened was in the film we talk about 4chan. We talk about the dark side of the internet and some of the people that do bad things.

Because, you know, one of the things that's in the movie is, um you know this idea that this theme of cyber bullying and we sort of take it to the extreme in the horror movie sense of what happens if some someone is cyber bullied to the nth degree and um and so we kind of took some real life things like 4chan and anonymous and certain groups and and talked about them and some of the characters in the movie have opinions about these groups and so once the word got out from like some early screenings we did some screenings for press i think someone like a blogger or something who was you know post on 4chan they got really upset about how we talked about the movie and like explained all the scenes that we talked about

online and then 4chanchan revolted against the movie and did what they call a raid where they got all our information. It was really attacked at me and my family. But they came after the cast, the crew, me, my parents, my cousins. They made death threats to my dog. It was very bizarre.

In what way? Well, in the way that they got my phone number, they got my address, they would send things, they called nonstop, text messages, saying that they're going to kill me, they're going to murder me, that everyone's going to die, that kind of fun stuff. It's like, you'll never see your family again. Just a lot of that. It's basically like 12-year-old kids just pranking,

but they just have a more sick sense of humor than, say, the three of us. And you know that. I mean, you're familiar enough with the internet to know that that's what it is. But at the same time, it only takes one person to act on. You know, it's scary. Act on – you know, there's this – it's scary. Well, at the same time, the shooting that happened in the movie theater was pretty recent at the Dark Knight. You know, like there was that whole movie shooting that happened at the Dark Knight Rises screen.

I think it was around that time. Yeah. And so there was like – everyone was kind of – you know, there were like some people out there doing some crazy things. And so I was trying to explain to everybody who was getting attacked like these are kids. Like this is not a big deal. Like this is – and in some ways it's kind of funny. But nobody took it funny other than me. I think just because I had spent so much time on the internet, I kind of had a better idea of what 4chan was and that they're more about just like screwing with people and just like having fun. Just like they, you know, in the movie we talk about like, I did it for the lulz, like doing things for laughs and kind of a sadistic way. And that's what they're doing. They're just like death,

giving a death threat to someone is something really casual. They do it every day. And so I didn't, I wasn't really worried for my life, but my girlfriend was, my parents, family, like the cast, the crew, everybody freaked out. And it was really a weird thing because we had all these plans to do Q&As and meetups at lots of theaters and make it an event, you know, make this thing like a really, you know, come out and see the movie, meet with us and hang out and we'll have a great time. But then AMC got worried that someone might die. It was one of the screenings of Smiley, which would be terrible. And so it just kind of, you know, it was a weird time.

It happened two weeks right before the movie was coming out. And this is the time where I'm, you know, struggling to, you know, get billboards and Times Square and all these places for like no money, like trying to pull favors. But in an ironic sense, I mean, we saw the report on the Today Show. You, all of a sudden, you get a national audience where you can sit down

with Shane and kind of answer some questions about it. So, I mean, no one wants to go through death threats to get to that point, but did it end up ultimately raising the profile of the film? Well, it was a bummer because, you know, in releasing a film, it's something

I learned that so much of it comes from your PR company and having a good company that can get you on the right, you know, having a publicist that can get you on the right talk shows and the right interviews and all that. And once this story changed and it became a news story, they couldn't go and get the same kind of entertainment. Like we couldn't get Shane on like say Jimmy Kimmel because it was a news story. It was too like serious but a mix and match a serious news story with hey come see my movie you know i'm hobnobbing with jimmy kimmel it was like a weird messaging thing and they couldn't do both and so once we started talking about as a news story all of a sudden we couldn't be you know treated in the same way that like most movies get released where you

go on talk shows and do a lot of interviews and all that. It was just kind of stilted. So it was, you know, I think it helped in a way because it created a mystique of like, oh, this is a really dangerous movie. It just became like, you know, in this kind of dark way. It's like forbidden fruit, you know. But in the same way, like we couldn't really get out there in the traditional way and just tell people about the movie. Because every other movie that comes out, you get a blitz of publicity for the few weeks leading up. Go see the movie, go see the movie, go see the movie. So hopefully people go see it. So that was the tricky thing.

I wish in hindsight that maybe 4chan was a little nicer to us and we could have gone out there. How did it do? Did you make that investment back? Oh, yeah, baby. I came here in a helicopter. No, you know, I made the money back, but, you know, it was a combination. It wasn't just the movie, you know, what it made in the movie theaters. I think it was a slow process of, you know, having come out in different countries and

having come out on Showtime and Redbox and, you know, Netflix and all these things. Right. You've already really, you're one of the first. I mean, I think it's pretty awesome to say I'm one of the first guys that came up through YouTube and made a feature film. You know, it's, you know, now it's, we've got Camp Dakota. Julian Smith earlier this year on Ear Biscuits announced that he was going to start working on a film. I can't wait for that. And we can't either.

And we don't have any specific things in the works, but we aspire to make feature films. I think that this is a really exciting time. Where do you think – do you think this is going to become a thing? It's just like, yeah, people who come up through YouTube who have an audience, they're going to start distributing feature films amongst their audience. And do you think there's more to follow? Oh, yeah. I would hope so. I think, you know, it's like, it's just more of a good thing. It's like, you know, Rhett and Link, you guys make amazing videos to think that, oh, you guys would have a Rhett and Link movie? That sounds incredible. You know, if I'm a

fan of you guys, I want to watch your movie. And I'm going to pay a million dollars to watch that movie per person per person we'll take a down payment tonight you just need three people to watch it and you're good for life yeah yeah just increase the ticket price um yeah no so i'm i'm super excited about the the prospects of that and you know and it's weird because you know when the movie when smiley came out out, I was actually 23. When I made it, I was 22. Yeah. I was 22 years old when I made this movie and I thought of it and helped write it when I was 21. So I was so young when I made it. And then, and then it released the year, it released when I was 23, but I was turning 24 in December. So I'm kind of like, you know, people get my date wrong or whatever old I am. So it's like, I was so young when I made that. I'm so excited to just like keep making things and keep it all going, get the train going.

But it just takes way longer than a YouTube video. That's the only thing. So hopefully we'll see a ton of them, a ton of good, interesting movies, different movies too. That's the cool thing about Camp Dakota. So different in a way than what you see from Grace or Hannah Hart or Mamrie from their channels. Right. Well, it's been a pleasure having you. We're looking forward to the next project, the next YouTube video, and the next feature film.

Thanks, guys. Can't wait to see your movie. And there it was, our Ear Biscuit with Michael Gallagher of Totally Sketch. And that's his Twitter handle. Let him know what you think about his Ear Biscuit, twitter.com slash totally sketch. One of the things that really struck me from his story was how obviously starting at such a young age, getting director gigs at like 14 years old, directing commercials and casting actors by cold calling them and using a confident voice. You know, where he talks about going into the bathroom and like

splashing cold water on his face and saying, okay, you can do this. You need to put your game face on. And then he comes back out and he just does it. You know, this, there's a level of confidence required to make it an entertainment that is at times you just have to, you have to conjure it or even fake it to say, I can do this. I don't feel like I can do it, but I'm going to act on the bit of confidence that I have. And I'm going to figure it out. And that creates more confidence. I'm going to be the 15-year-old kid directing Shanana. I mean, that's a phenomenal story.

I mean, he is a, he's not a dramatic guy. You know, he doesn't sensationalize things. So I think it can be easy to miss the significance of some of those details of his story that he got started at such an early age. He did these things as such a young guy.

And that's what translates into being potentially the first YouTuber to have a theatrically released movie. Well, I think a lot of people, me being one of those, by the way, not knowing, you know, we've met Michael and we were familiar with his work, but we didn't know him too well,

and I didn't know him well enough to know the behind the scenes of, and that was all new information to me, like how that got made. Yeah. And I think, you know, you see the trailer, and you're like, okay, yeah, it's, you know, somebody at some movie studio somewhere thought it would be a good idea to put a bunch of YouTubers in a movie to kind of get people to go watch it,

and they got an actor here, an actor there, and they put their money behind it. I think that's how I always assumed it came together, especially because of the timing of it being 2012, which is still really early in the process of translating a YouTuber into something like that. But to know that it was just he and another guy. His tenacity at every turn, even his own money.

Right, yeah, and then saying, no, we're going to make this happen. It's pretty inspirational. And then to get it in theaters after going through all those meetings and saying, you know what, we're just going to do this. We're going to find another way. It's a great story. Does it make you want to make a horror movie? Because that's what I hear in your voice.

It makes me want to make a movie. I mean, we already have that desire, but it just fuels the fire. But not a horror movie, no. Let's do one with a skin face. You know, no. No. How about just a face on a butt?

No. I mean, we can just use my face. How's that? Okay, well, that's... You know, it might be can just use my face. How's that? Okay, well that's... If it, you know, I could say that it was scary. It might be scary.

In your face. We'll also use your face. And it's not a horror. It's not a horror. No. It's an epic adventure. Yeah. And let's throw some music.

Dramatic. It's dramatic. It's dramatic. There will be tears shed. We will be... The two of us will be crying throughout and probably muddy

we should be muddy at some point you know what we should do we should just be Lewis and Clark really we gotta get a second to wea

do they both make it because hopefully not hopefully they both die because no no no don't spoil it don't spoil the movie

that we haven't come up with yet okay I guess you kind of have to spoil it in order for us to come up with it. But we're not going to share that with you, but we are going to thank you for listening. I'm sure if you have ideas for a movie, you'll let us know on Twitter and Facebook. And we will just pour over your ideas for what movie we should make. And let us know what you think about Ear Biscuits. It helps us a lot when you leave a review and

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