Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 51 Matthew Santoro - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: September 26, 2014

One of YouTube's rising stars and purveyor of Top 10 List videos, Matthew Santoro, sits down with Rhett & Link this week to talk about the staggering recent growth of his channel after gaining over 1.5 million subscribers in the summer of 2014 alone, how his life has changed virtually overnight from holding a job as an accountant to becoming a popular content creator, and his secrets to successfully navigating the highly competitive world of online entertainment. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we have another conversation with someone interesting from the internet. We're bringing to you this time, Matthew Santoro. Now, I'm sure you've seen his videos,

at least a handful of them, list videos designed to satisfy inquisitive minds. Each week, just look for a new thumbnail of a bald bearded dude with a Cheshire Cat smile and millions of views registering underneath it and you will have found Matthew Santoro's video that week. And now, usually these videos come in the form of a top 10 list.

That is what he is very well known for now. With, quote, mind-blowing end quote facts and trivia, irresistibly clickable titles like, and I'm gonna use my irresistibly clickable voice, ten most fascinating

things ever found in space. Ten most haunted places on Earth. Go deeper. Ten incredible animals with real-life superpowers. Ten freakiest coincidences in history. And for this last one, can you go, like, monster truck announcer? Yeah.

And 50 amazing facts to blow your mind. Number seven. Number seven. I spit a little bit. You wish you could have seen it. All right, here's a clip from one of Matt's more recent and popular videos. Over five and a half million views titled, Tune. Should you say this one too? I mean, I could go to next level, monster truck guy.

Okay, do it. Ten creepy urban legends that turned out to be true! If you didn't catch that, it was ten Creepy Urban Legends That Turned Out To Be True. Number 6 is Creatures In Your Toilet. This one will pucker your butthole. This urban legend is about a man that gets out of bed half asleep in the middle of the night and walks to the washroom to do his business, only to get bit by a giant rat right in the bum.

Now even though Matt has been making videos since 2010, his success is really recent, and it's kind of mind-boggling how quickly he has ascended up the ranks. In a three-month time span from May through July of this year, he doubled his subscriber base, skyrocketing from one million to two million subscribers

just in those three months, and he's still growing, right? As of this recording, he's got over two and a half million subscribers so the dude is just, it's an interesting case study in someone who can refine something and it's like it caught fire. It's interesting. Right, so we're talking to him in the midst

of this incredible upswing that he has been experiencing this year. So let's call this a case study Ear Biscuit. I mean we discuss lots of things, his famous teeth, his previous life as a professional accountant. And we get into unpacking the secrets to this incredibly quick rise to fame on YouTube and the approach of navigating this competitive world

of internet list videos. Here it is, our Ear Biscuit with Matthew Santoro. Now I gotta admit, I was hoping that when we offered you coffee, you would say yes, and then you would request a straw. Ah. Because we know that this is a thing. You drink coffee through a straw.

Ah, so you did your research. I like that. We always do our research. Who do you think we are, man? Yes, I do. Give us the backstory on drinking coffee through a straw. I have my theories. There's actually no real backstory it's just uh just general maintenance for the old chompers that's all it is

so uh you know it gets to keep them white as white as possible and uh drinking i you know anytime i have uh it makes a little difficult when you're at a a dinner or a party trying to be classy and you're drinking red wine through a straw looks a little odd but oh so you you're always you totally commit oh i totally commit i've never been on a date and done that but what i do is like anytime i'm going out i choose white wine over red on purpose regardless of the dish wow yeah i'm committed well i gotta say that i do feel like your teeth are a big part of your brand they are and it's funny because people are always like, why do you show so much teeth? And it is. It's just the smile thing. I know it sounds stupid, but...

No, but I don't think it's just a smile. I feel like if I was designing a human for like some sort of... And I was like, okay, I gotta use this person's eyes, I gotta use this person's elbows. First of all, I wouldn't use my elbows

because they're very pointy unless this was like a fighter because I can elbow somebody in the face. But I would choose your teeth. Oh wow. You know, they're very large. I feel like you have- Very large? You could bite something. Like they're very white, they're very straight,

they're very prominent. I'm not in like a, we're not talking like a horse mouth situation. We're just talking like bionic man. Like oh, I gotta put Matt Santoro's teeth on this robot. Yeah. You know what I mean? This robot we're designing to overtake the human race.

Matt, what? What's, hold on, let him respond to that. To make you feel a little better before you respond, what's behind this for Rhett is he's jealous because if you look at him now or any videos, you can't see the guy's teeth. Yeah, I got a lot of teeth. You try as hard as he may to show people his teeth,

he can't do it. But there are people who are convinced he doesn't even have teeth. Right. And I'm one of those people. I got small teeth, I got a small mouth. I mean, yeah. But you're a giant man.

I am, which makes it extra awkward. So those things may have seemed like a cut on you, but basically it's just revealing one of his deepest insecurities is that people think he's toothless. I complimented his freaking teeth, man. Right, I got robot teeth, I know. Large teeth is a good thing, and it's not a bad thing.

It's not like I see a bunch of gums over there. It's not like a gummy smile, one of those smiles. I mean, the man smiles and all you see is big, bright, white teeth. This is a compliment. I would protect him too. Yeah, man. Just regular maintenance. People are always like, did you have braces?

I have never had braces. Really? Yep, never. No work done? No, no work done. Fillings, I've had fillings, but that's about it. I mean, nothing special done. It's just maintenance, my man. But you're very committed to the whiteness of your teeth.

The whiteness, yes. Very much so. I mean, all you got to do is just maintain them. So I use a lot of Listerine, anti-stain Listerine, not a sponsor. But I use that. I use whitening toothpaste, just regular maintenance. That's all it is. But what would happen? What would happen if the teeth faded to yellow? Oh. You'd lose views? Well, I would just, everyone would unsubscribe

and I'd be on the street. I mean, that's all it is. I mean, I guess what I'm saying is they are quite in focus. Like for me, I don't worry about my teeth at all because like Link said, you never see them. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think they're relatively white and relatively straight, but they're not that white and that straight, but they don't have about my teeth at all, because like Link said, you never see them. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think they're relatively white and relatively straight, but they're not that white

and that straight, but they don't have to be. Yeah. But when you are the bionic man such as yourself, Right. Bionic mouth. They gotta be straight, they gotta be white, and they are. Have you ever had like your bite strength tested? No, no, well, my father was a shark, and my mother was just a bucket of white paint. So that's why I am who I am.

That's weird. Yeah, it is weird. I don't even know how they got together. How does a shark and paint procreate? I'd like to see that. That's just another episode. I can't even. Still trying to figure that out. Okay. So too bad we didn't get to see it in action, though, but there is water you can just drink. I will not stain your teeth. Yeah, perfect, I appreciate that. This is good American water. Yeah, but you gotta watch it when drinking

like a hot beverage through a straw like coffee, man. You could, you're sending, you know, it's the burn express to the back of your mouth there. Well, I thought, one thing I think about is, you know, I use a new straw every day, of course, but drinking hot coffee. Hold on, I use a new straw every day, of course, but drinking hot coffee. Hold on, is it like a new straw? Yeah, well, like a disposable straw every day because I have coffee every morning.

Well, you could get like a metal straw. A her? Yeah. That's a thing? Yeah, it's an eco straw. You get a wooden straw too. I think you just changed my life. Yeah, I get a wooden straw, bamboo straw.

Okay, well, I'm going to have to definitely look into that because I've been using plastic straw too. I think you just changed my life. Yeah, I get a wooden straw, bamboo straw. Okay, well, I'm going to have to definitely look into that because I've been using plastic straws. And for a while now, I've been thinking over the course of a year, let's say hypothetically, I drink 365 cups of coffee, one straw per coffee. How much of the straw is getting melted while I'm drinking? So have I consumed a couple straws over the course of a year? Now, let me make sure. And if so, what's the impact of that? That's a good question. Let me make sure I'm not making this up because I just said wooden straw because I figured it.

Yep, it exists. Wow. You can buy them in a five pack. Handcrafted wood straw, five pack, $17, Etsy. Reusable? Well. Yeah. Because if they're not, that'd be very expensive.

They got designs on them? Really? Holy mackerel. Yeah, you need to not, that'd be very expensive. They got designs on them? Really? Holy mackerel. Yeah, you need to, you know what? Hey, this is a sponsor. First, when I get back to Canada, that's the first thing I'm buying. First, we're gonna send you a pack.

That's our thank you for making this biscuit. You just made my day, man. Thank you so much. A pack of wood straws. All right, so let's go a little deeper than the teeth. Okay. We could stay here all night. Well, I want to find out what he thinks about L.A.

Have you been to L.A. before? Yes, I love L.A. I love California in general. It's beautiful. It's always sunny. The people are beautiful. You guys are here. What more could you want?

But, I mean, it's no Canada. That's right. I mean, there are positives and negatives. There's smog. Yeah. Oh, there's smog here? Yeah. A lot.

We don't get a lot of that in Canada. Stain your teeth. Yeah. You got to breathe that smog. Breathe that smog. Breathe that smog. That smog into a straw. From now on, that's what I'm going to do.

Yeah, that's right. No, I mean, I love living in Canada. I live right near. I live in a town called St. Catharines, which is about 30 minutes away from Niagara Falls. And Niagara Falls is the type of thing where- You ever been over? No, I definitely have not. But there have been multiple people that have tried.

Some survived, some haven't. Oh, yeah. We know about that. It's quite illegal. You got a show on that yet? No, I've done a- I don't know. I've done a top 10 on pretty much everything now. But I'm trying to think if I've a show on that yet uh no i've done a i don't know i've done a top 10 on pretty much everything now uh but i'm trying to think i've done one on that well we've done that but

you can still do it actually i just did one on uh 10 inventors killed by their own inventions and one of them was a guy that invented uh what he called the capsule and he used this thing to go over the falls and he survived so So do you know about this guy? He died years later. There was something related, right? Yeah, so the first time he did it, everything was fine. So these guys, I believe it was in Dallas, Texas, the Houston Astrodome, I think it was,

and they created an artificial waterfall over something along those lines, and he went over in the capsule, except the Houston Astrodome was apparently much higher. And what happened was he or something like that. And he fell when he impacted, he hit the side of the pool. Anyways, the capsule exploded,

he died. And that was the end of that, but he didn't hit in actually like on target. So that's why he died. So he was like doing a test. He was doing a ticket selling demonstration. Like he was a, he was a celebrity. And it's like, come see the dude a test for the falls, yeah. He was doing a ticket selling demonstration. Like he was a celebrity. It's like, come see the dude who went over the falls,

go over the fake falls here, and he'll die. That'll be cool. You gotta stick to the real falls when you wanna. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, that topic is a good example of something that it takes thought and calculation to come up with a good subject for a good list video and you've got it down to, you've honed it to an art.

But my question is, there's such a wide range of topics, serial killers to sports to science to science fiction. How do you decide what to do an episode on? Inventors who've, you know, who were killed by their own inventions, you know, where do these things come from? Well, I actually have two sources. One is real life. So I'll just be living my life, I don't know, walk into a store and something will click and I'll just say, Oh, that's a good idea. I'll put it down on my phone. The other one, which is usually my biggest source is sometimes it's all the internet, obviously.

So I'll either Google just a random topic or I will use one of the – I have a folder in Chrome where I have – and this is – I've never told anyone this. So this isn't exclusive for you guys. But I have a folder in Chrome where I have about 10 or more list websites. And you guys know there's tons of these list websites. And what I'll do is I'll search randomly through their lists and then I'll find one. So for example, I'll find, you know, six, the six creepiest foods or grossest foods on earth. And then that'll be like, okay, that's a great topic. So what I'll do is I'll use that idea and Google it and use, you know, I'll cherry pick

from the 10 websites that pop up and cherry pick the best ones and then do further research on those. So I never just use one website because you'd be surprised at how much false information there is, especially when you're doing like my series, 50 amazing facts. A lot of these facts, quote unquote websites that are out there, you know, especially the ones that people share on Facebook and things like that. A lot of them, I'd say 50% of them are false of the ones that you read online. Once you actually look into it, they're either completely false or just unfounded. And they've been replicated on multiple websites sometimes. Yeah. It's the type of thing where, you know, a false fact almost becomes truth because everybody starts saying it. Like even when you,

you know, one of these websites will mis. Like even when you, you know, one of these websites will misquote somebody or something and you know, then Buzzfeed will pick it up and then, uh, Cracked will pick it up and they just all pick it up. And so it, but it's, but it's false. So, uh, in, in the first couple of 50 amazing facts that I made, uh, I actually accidentally used a couple of those. And ever since then, people called me out on it. And I thought, oh, okay. Oh, they'll call you out. Oh, they definitely.

Well, I mean, especially with a big audience, the people, there's always one. And that's it. So ever since then, I've been really, really diligent about researching these things. And if I can't find absolute guaranteed something that I'm certain about, I just leave the fact out now. Well, interesting.

We can say, with Good Mythical Morning, we basically apply the same system in terms of when we do a list episode, right? Which I want to get into that. I want to get into this, the dynamics of that and how we and you feel about that approach. But as you say that, I mean, that's definitely our approach. Our approach is let's not just go to one website

because A, we don't wanna just do the same list that somebody else did. Exactly, yeah. Because then we're just biting off of them. Right. But if there's a list on the internet, it's been done 10 times. Of course. And so yeah, find it. Everything's a remix, right? Find your favorites and then offer commentary.

Yeah. Yeah, but we'll get into the mechanics of that later, but we want to find out about the mat that became the Matt Santoro of today. So let's go back. I'm assuming the origins are in Canada. Yes. Yes.

Do you want me to just begin? Yeah. Begin. Begin. Where did you come from? Well, my mother, no. Well, my mother, but essentially I grew up in a small town. Again, this is something I haven't told anyone before. But I grew up in a small town called Welland, Ontario, Canada, obviously. And I lived there for most of my life. And then I moved to St. Catharines with my now ex-girlfriend.

And now I live on my own. But when I moved to St. Catharines with my now ex-girlfriend. And now I live on my own. But when I moved to St. Catharines, I was studying accounting. But what about even before then? So you moved to St. Catharines to study accounting in college? Well, no. Okay. I went to Brock University in St. Catharines. And I was actually living with my mom for many years. And I lived there while I was studying accounting. Um, and I graduated that then moved to St. Catharines. That was the timeline. Um, and I got my master of accountancy degree and that took five and a half years. Let's, let's figure out what is it, what contributes to someone wanting to be an accountant? My dad has been in business his whole life, and now he actually teaches business, which is a lot more less stressful, apparently. But yeah, my dad was always in business.

So I decided, you know what, you can, you know, basically, I want to do something in business. And I remember my accounting teacher in high school saying to me, well, Matt, I know you don't know what you want to do. But if you want to make money, go into accounting because you're guaranteed to make a lot of money. I thought, okay, well, I'm in high school. I don't know anything. So that sounds good. You hear a lot of money. And plus my dad does it. Yeah, well, plus my dad's in business.

So it just kind of fits. So I went into that. What does your mom do? Because you could have done that. My mom, geez geez i don't even my mom works at uh like an employment thing so when people for for immigrants so when immigrants come in she helps them get jobs and just helps everybody get jobs type thing she works for the government basically okay um but yeah so uh yeah and i'll just tell the story and if you want any

more details just jump in let me know but yeah so I got my master of accountancy degree. And when I graduated, I worked in accounting for about two years. Now, immediately upon graduating, I or just before, actually, I had really discovered discovered him. And then I discovered Dan Brown, Pogo Bat, Philip DeFranco, Wheezy Waiter, Tessa, Miki Kitty, Julian Smith, just all these people that were pretty talented. Now, you had graduated. You had an accounting degree. At this point, at the end of 2009, I had graduated with my undergrad. And then between 2009 and 2010, I was working on my master's degree. It was only one more year. And so you started working on your master's and started watching YouTube videos. Well, yeah, you can do both at the same time. Can you?

Yeah, sure you can. And when I started watching these people, it was so entertaining. And I realized, my God, these people are famous. They're basically internet famous. And especially with Ray, he was doing it out of what looked like his apartment. And I was just fascinated that this is a whole new world that we live in, that these people can start this type of stuff with just a web, what looked like just a webcam. And I was just fascinated by it. So I thought to myself, after about six months of watching these people, I thought I could probably do that.

Now that takes a certain kind of person though, right? It does, yeah. Because the average person, I think that's changing. I know that I think kids especially who are watching YouTubers now, it's kind of built in that, oh, this can be a career because I know there's people who do this as a career. Right. But it takes a certain kind of person as an adult

with a degree to be watching YouTube content and then make the connection to, oh, I could be doing this. So, I mean, were you a guy that liked to perform for people? No. Any kind of background? Well, it's kind of weird that I went into accounting because my whole life I've been kind of a goofy guy. I always enjoyed making people laugh. I've always enjoyed facts and things like that, but I never, like when I started YouTube, um, I never thought, you know, Oh, this is going to be a career. I just thought I'm just

going to do this. And this will always be something that'll be my creative outlet. Because when you're an accountant, like, I mean, you're crunching something. Yeah. You need something or else you're going to, you know, lose it. So, um, that's just what I did. I started doing that, working basically nine to five, Monday to Friday, doing videos on Saturdays, writing the video through the week at night. So it was kind of a hustle. And what was your living situation at the time? Because you said you moved to St. Catherine's. Yeah. So I moved to St. Catherine's with my girlfriend. Upon moving in with her, ex-girlfriend, upon moving in with her, I-

You moved in with your ex-girlfriend? moving in with her i you moved in with your ex-girlfriend no well girlfriend at the time okay uh that would have been weird um no but i moved in with her and then uh i just i just was like okay now i'm going to start making videos i'm in a new place fresh start let's just start making videos so i went out i got a crappy uh handycam sony handycam i mean it was 1080p that's all I cared about. Uh, I didn't know anything about video editing. I didn't know anything about, um, uh, you know, white balancing. So my video, my first set of videos were very orange looking, uh, no lighting, no mic or anything. Um, but I just jumped into it and everything I learned, I was completely self-taught off YouTube

and I just had a really big imagination. So I, what I would do is come up with what I wanted to do in the video and then figure it out after I never thought like, Oh no, could I do that? I never thought of that. I just shot what I wanted to do and then figured out how to do it through YouTube tutorials. Never taken a class on video editing, nothing like that. Never learned how to shoot, you know, professionally or anything like that. Just learned everything myself. So in creative, you, I mean, looking back at your earliest videos,

very different than what you're doing now. Yes. I can see when you list your influences, you can definitely see that at the beginning. You were kind of emulating. You got a little bit of Ray. You got a little bit of Phil talking about maybe a current event here or there. Maybe you got a Wheezy Waiter clone coming in.

You guys are good. I like this. So, you know, you definitely see, hey, they're doing this. I'm just going to throw it all against the wall and then see what sticks. Right? That's kind of. Basically, yeah. And, I mean, if you look at my earliest videos, I've always done lists.

I've always done that. They just weren't top tens. I've done, you know, everything I've done everything from 10 ways to lose your man card, which is just a ridiculous video, but it was one of my first videos. And that was inspired by something I heard on the radio. A disc jockey was talking about a man card and I thought it was a hilarious topic. So I just came up with 10 things how to be a manly man, which is ironic because I am the farthest thing from everything on that list. Like I'm not like a manly man at all. You're not a card carrier.

Actually, I am. Because the guys that own like, it's like mancard.com or officialmancard.com, they found the video and contacted me and said, we love this. What's your address? We want to send you an official man card. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I got a- What does that look like? It's just a black man card with my name and it says, member since, and then it has my date of birth and then till death.

Yeah, that's what it says on it. And it came with a certificate and everything. So you got a man card by knowing somebody. That's- Well, we all have- Hey, as long as you got a man card by knowing somebody. That's... I... Well, we all have... Hey, as long as you got it, right? I mean, we all have our man card until we lose it. That's the way the man card works.

But I don't really believe that stuff. That's just the technical how it works. But yeah, so, and that's about it. So, I started doing skits.

Now, let's, before we get into, you know, this transition from those early videos to what you're doing now, describe St. Catharines, because is that where you're at now? That's where I'm at now. Yeah. Okay. About 150,000 people, not a very big town. Not too small though.

Not too small. I mean, Welland, where where i grew up which is 15 minutes away from that is only 50 000 so i'm moving on up um but if you look at like buffalo new york uh niagara falls is about 30 minutes above that saint catherine's is about 30 minutes above that toronto is about an hour and a half above that just to put it into perspective uh so that's that's where i live okay and it's- And if you're doing accounting, which you're at a desk, right? There's not a lot of movement going on. Nope. If you're entering in your lifestyle situation

into like one of those fitness apps, you put sedentary. Basically. If you're an accountant. Yeah. So it's one thing to be like, okay, well, on the weekends, I'm going to,

what kind of things, did you hunt moose? I know that's a little insulting, I'm sorry. Yeah, you know, I hunt beavers. There's different things that you could do, but you were like, I'm gonna do this other thing, which is a little, you know, it's less sedentary than accounting, but it wasn't like, okay, I'm gonna go and do this other

thing to bring myself some satisfaction. What was the initial allure of that? Were you like, that just seems more fun? Like those people seem like they're having more fun or those people seem like they are reaching more people? I don't know. It's just, it's hard to explain. I mean, I don't know. It's just it's it's hard to explain. I mean, like I just jumped into it because it looked like something that I I don't know. I can't really explain it to you, to be completely honest. It was just something that I've always enjoyed entertaining people. I on YouTube. So instead of high school or grade school, you know, now that I'm an adult, well, this is my only other way to do it. So that's just, it was just my creative outlet. It's really all it was. And so, yeah, it just continued from there. And it was something that just happened as an outlet, you know, on the weekend. I imagine

you sitting at your accounting desk. I mean, we had engineering jobs. Rhett more than me would sit at his engineering cubicle and obsess about all the things that he wanted to be interested in besides what he was getting paid to do. So I imagine you thinking about, all right, this is what's going into my video this Saturday. Oh yeah, oh totally. It was really the only way to keep me sane.

That's the only thing that kept me sane. And the only thing that kept me awake was a lot of energy drinks and coffee, just a terribly unhealthy, unhealthy job. And you're sitting there all day. Oh man. I'm so glad I'm doing what I'm doing now. It's so much better. So as you split your time between accounting and YouTube, there was no room for that girlfriend? She had to hit the road? No, no, no, nothing like that. Her name's Marcy. She was the most, is one of the best people I've ever known.

It just didn't work out. After a while, we've been together for, we were together for five years. It just kind of, after a while, seemed like we were just really, really good friends. You know, it just kind of happens. There was no juicy story. Nothing ever, nothing happened. No one did anything. We're still really good friends. She's still very supportive. We have coffee once in a while, so everything's good on that. Does she drink through a straw? She doesn't drink

through a straw. Cause I picture the two of you, two of you, one cup of coffee, two straws. Yeah. While you were dating. Yeah, dating yeah no uh something like that but no um no it was a couple months ago and uh whoa okay uh this is fresh this is okay welcome to yeah so june so july august yeah about two two and a half two months ago two and a half months ago and oh wow this is a five-year relationship yeah two months ago yeah uh you move out she move out i moved out because i moved in with her originally. It was still her apartment, so I moved out.

But it was really tough, but it was something that I knew was the best thing for the both of us. And it was super tough because she was one of the most supportive people. And like I said, one of the best people, still is one of the best people

I've ever known in my life. But it's just, sometimes you just don't click and have chemistry and it just didn't work, but it's just sometimes you just don't click and have chemistry, and it just didn't work, so it was just time to move on. Hmm. So to go back from those first videos, start to walk us through the transition

from emulating the YouTubers that you watched to move. You said you were doing some list based things pretty early on. We can see that but I, you know, in looking back through the channel, I think there's certain milestones that I can, you can kind of, I can kind of trace an evolution to arrive at what you have today.

In your mind, how did that happen? And, you know, leading up to a point where you could do this full time. I'm curious how recent that's been. It's kind of, it's tough. Okay. So right up until the end of, I'm trying to think of the timeline now. So 2014, 2013. So right up until the end of 2013, I was about October-ish.

I still only had about 15,000 subscribers. And- Still working full-time. No. So that's part of the story too. I was actually laid off. That's what, so I'll do a little backstory. So what actually happened was I was working in accounting for two years and I was working

for a small firm. What happens, the risk of working at a small firm is they're much more, um, if the economy goes bad or anything happens, they're much more, you know, likely for to do layoffs type thing. And that was the moment where a light bulb went off because I remember the day I got laid off, I came home and I wasn't upset. And I actually, I remember looking at Marcy and smiling and saying, I got laid off, I came home and I wasn't upset. And I actually, I remember looking at Marcy and smiling and saying, I got laid off. And it was, it was like, it was like this seed of doubt, this voice that was in the back of my head for these two years, you know, really came to the

forefront and said, Hey, I've been telling you this whole time. You weren't happy, you know, let's make a change. And it was that moment where I realized, you know, we live in a world now where the, the quote unquote safe route is not that safe. We were always told to go to university, get a good job, work the nine to five, do that for 40 years. And then you die, raise a family and that raise a family first, not as a corpse generally doesn't work out. Some people are into that. So, you know, raise a family and that raise a family first, not as a corpse generally doesn't work out. Some people are into that. Yeah. So, you know, raise a family and then you die, but that doesn't, that's not the world anymore.

And people are waking up to that fact. And I'm just glad that I woke up to that at a relatively young age. Cause I'm 29 right now. I woke up to that at the age of 27 and I think it took me as long as it did because, or I didn't realize it longer because, you know, you spend five and a half years in school. You can't – it's hard to say, geez, well, I changed my mind. It's really – I think this is what I really want to do. And it takes – not many people do that because – especially when you already have a job.

I mean who's going to leave a nine- nine to five job where you have pay to follow, you know, a wild goose chase. I mean, making it on YouTube is like winning the lottery. It really is. It's very, very difficult. And I was blessed enough that that happened to me. But you were at that point one year ago now, basically, it's almost October. So one year ago, you laid off and you got that small interface because you knew I can go all in with YouTube. I was laid off a year before that, actually. Two years. Yeah.

So, well, what happened was October-ish was the almost one-year anniversary of getting laid off. Okay. So that whole time, I was broke. I had no money. That's one of the reasons I'm so thankful to Marcy cause she really helped out during that time. Um, and you know, I was getting some unemployment and stuff, so that kind of helped, but really I was hurting bad. Uh, luckily I had a bit of a savings or I'd have been in really bad shape. But, uh, so, you know, on the year

anniversary when my unemployment insurance ran out, I had literally no money. Uh, I just, but that whole time I never stopped doing YouTube because I thought to myself, and I started doing other things. I started shooting some weddings to make ends meet. I started doing, uh, we've all been there. Yeah. You do what you have to do. You use the skills you've, you've done. I've gotten over the last three years on YouTube to start going in different directions. And I thought, started thinking to myself, okay, maybe now. But you didn't enjoy wedding video, right? I didn't mind it.

I mean. You're one of the lucky ones. It wasn't. I mean, you know, it's, have you guys done that? It's a long day. It's a really. We did. We did.

It's a very long. We did one. It felt like more though. Yeah. It felt like more weddings than one. Well, I only shot one full day wedding. So that's probably similar to you guys, but I did a lot of like just the ceremony, you know, a few hundred, 500 bucks, like just, you know, it's hard to live off of that. And, uh, you know, but I never gave up hope. I just kept doing YouTube. And I thought to myself,

if I just throw my tentacles out there and touch on a little bit of everything, maybe something will take off. And it just so happened that in October, I think it was October. Anyways, I took a two week trip across America. Do you guys remember the Ford Fiesta movement? Yeah. Where they gave away a bunch of cars to a bunch of YouTubers. Well, my friend Scott in Buffalo took myself and my friend Rob Dyke across America to visit our friend Dylan, whose channel's Household Hacker in Portland, Oregon.

Right. Yeah. So we went down to Buffalo, picked up Rob in Massachusetts, came all the way back to Buffalo, went all the way to Portland and came all the way back to Buffalo. And then I went home and then he dropped Rob off in Massachusetts because I couldn't handle being in a car for another even eight hours after two weeks. But that trip really did a lot for me because I did a lot of networking in Portland. I signed to The Collective, which is Dylan started a sub network called Tube Unity.

He convinced me to sign with them. And that's really when everything took off. I started meeting people, just networking more. And then all of a sudden, something happened where it just kind of happens. I don't know if that happened to you guys. I know you guys have gone viral several times. I mean, your videos speak for themselves. But for me, I've never gone viral. So my growth was very sudden because right up until December, I had about 30,000 subscribers and it took about six months to reach, well, eight months now to reach 2.5 million. So it all happened very quickly. And there was about a three

month period there where I was getting 25,000 subscribers a day, which, and I was right behind PewDiePie in terms of growth. There were some days where I even beat him. Absolutely nuts. It is nuts. What was the first time that you recognized that that was happening? Because you're saying it wasn't one viral video. It was a surge in the channel. Now, how long did a decision to only do list videos precede that wave of subscribers? Subscribers. So what happened was I didn't, truth be told, I didn't want to be known as the list guy. I always considered myself very creative. I didn't want to give up my, you know, skit roots, the whole skit thing that I was doing. So I would do a skit one week and then I would do a top 10 list the other week. Why I started doing top 10 lists, I don't know.

I've just always liked the, I've experimented a lot. I've tried top 20. I've tried top liked the, I've experimented a lot. I've tried top 20. I've tried top 40, top 50, five, seven. I've tried all kinds of numbers. And just through experimentation, I realized that people really like top tens. There's just something about that round number people like.

Because you would see in the performance of those videos that they would, you know, you'd get, it was all in the analytics. It would start breaking a million views at some point well i wasn't getting that at first um it's funny before all this happened i was happy to get 2 000 views a week i thought that was a lot because it is kind of i mean it's all relative right like if you think about that that's 2 000 people that watched your video so now that i get

a million in like five days it's just it still blows my mind because in many ways i'm still that same guy in my head um but yeah, I would do a skit one week and then the next week I would do a top 10 and then I would do a skit and then a top 10 and back and forth. And at the end of the video, you would say, you know, you would call people to subscribe to push that big red button.

And you'd say, subscribe to see my other comedy videos. And I remember seeing that and I was like, well, are they list videos or are they comedy videos? So there was this trying to figure out and I think that that was my assumption was there's an identity crisis going on here. The fans want those lists, but he wants to be a comedian.

It was an evolution. It was a transition. That was where it was happening, where I started looking at the analytics and thinking, oh, my God, I'm getting 50,000 views on the skits, but my lists are getting 200,000. Yeah. So what would happen? And I would notice that there was a huge jump in subscribers when I do the top tens. Just boom, happens. So I was thinking to myself, what would happen if I exclusively did top tens and the rest is history. That's really, that's really what, that's really

what happened. But it wasn't an easy decision. It was not. Um, if you look at my outro screen, I stopped using the word comedy and I stopped like if you, up until a certain point, it would say, uh, subscribe new comedy videos every Saturday. Right. And I left that in there for a while, even after I started doing exclusively top tens. But after a while I started realizing, and I started, and I even started taking them out of the category of comedy because up until then they had all been considered comedy.

And I, the reason I left it as that is because I always was doing a little like you guys have probably, you know, you've seen it. I do a little bit of comedy in between the facts, try to keep it light. Kind of like a bill Bill Nye was a big inspiration for me that way. It was interesting, infotainment type stuff.

Yeah. So that's kind of what happened. I realized, you know what? This is more education at this point. Comedy is secondary. So I took the word comedy out of my end card where I call people to action to subscribe. the word comedy out of my end card where I call people to action to subscribe. And, uh, and I started moving it to the classifying them as education in the education category. And, um, that actually, I think hurt my, uh, subscribership actually, because as soon as I did that, I started

going from 25,000 a day down to, I'm about at six, I averaged six to 8,000 a day now, which is still nothing to sneeze at, but that's a big drop. And I think that, uh, I think it, part of it was because of the switch from comedy to entertainment or, uh, to, uh, sorry, education, because I think a lot of people look at, look for more comedy videos than they do education videos, but education is pretty big on YouTube now. So it's, I'm still getting a decent amount of of. Well you know, this is so fascinating. I mean, we're so fascinated with this obviously because we have an interest in understanding this platform.

But I think it's so cool to talk to you right now. Because you are in the middle of this, right? I mean, you've gained a million and a half subscribers since May. Yep. Crazy, right? And no viral video. That's why I'm proud of that,

because it's like, I still have not had. Well, I think a lot of people would consider multiple million views viral, but yeah. Oh, yeah. Not viral in the terms of Not the way you guys have been viral. Tens of millions or whatever. Yeah.

But it's just so fascinating because you started with a certain thing, millions or whatever. But it's just so fascinating because you started with a certain thing and one of my favorite videos of yours is your million subscriber thank you video where you show your first video that you put up. Because I think it helps to kind of encapsulate the process so much. You've got this video that you say,

this is gonna be embarrassing for me to show, you know, and you said that you were definitely preparing the audience for how embarrassed you were gonna be by showing this video. And then it's a totally different style, like we said, it was very easy to see the different things that you had pulled from to put this video together, the different people that you've been influenced by.

And now to see how so much has, you've honed in on this very specific style that is working. And so there's this dynamic of like, well I kinda wanted to do this, but the audience has dictated that I'm doing this. And it's addictive, is it doing this and it's addictive. Is it not? It's very addictive.

It's very true, especially when it's something you've wanted for three and a half years. Yeah. And for it to finally happen, I mean, for anyone out there that hasn't experienced anything like this, it's almost like a drug. Like you get like a drug like you get like a high off of it like you start seeing all these people like 10 000 subscribers a day it's like oh my god like you get excited it's like that's a lot of people like i'm growing so quickly and you get hooked on it so you want to do more top tens and more of what you're doing to keep those people coming and it just keeps growing and growing and And it gets, it's, it's, it's like a drug addiction. I don't want to say that, but it is,

it's like, it's like a, I don't want to call it fame. I don't like using that word, but it's like the notoriety, the attention it's, it's addictive. It really is. Well, and I think, I mean, for the way I relate to it, I mean, obviously it's cool to be recognized for doing something, but when you just think about, you think about the longevity, you know, you wanna be in this business for a long time, and the success, not just to be able to say

that I'm successful, but to be able to keep doing it, it's so, you gravitate towards the things that you're like, well, I mean, I kinda like those sketches, but boy, they don't want that from me. So why, I mean, I kind of like those sketches, but boy, they don't want, they don't want that for me. So why am I going to give them something they don't want when I can just, I can kind of systematically give them exactly what they're asking for. Yeah, exactly. And, and I mean, it's sort of a, it's a, it's a trade-off because when you, when I used to do sketches and I mean, I still enjoy that because you're not boxed into a top

10 format. I can do anything I want. I can move the camera. I can shoot clones. I can do all that stuff. But, you know, when you upload a video like that, and I remember getting, you know, say 2000 views on it, but then I do a top 10, I get far more. It really, I don't know, the top 10s outweigh the loss of not being able to have that creativity because you're getting so much more attention. It's just, it satisfies you in a different way. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, I can't be as creative, but I mean, you guys have probably seen some of my more recent videos. I try to still use that creativity. Like I'll appear right at the beginning, like out of nowhere, you know what I'm saying? Or like, I don't know, like I'll crash land through the roof like I did in my most recent video. So elements of that are still there. It's

not dead. It's just I'm picking and choosing how to use my creativity now. Is there a fear that either you're still going to get tired of it? I mean, that for certain people doing anything, any one thing for too long can feel like being an accountant at a desk. Or is there a fear that the audience is gonna change their mind? You do any one thing too long, you lose interest. There isn't a fear, it's, how do I explain it? It's more of, you know, I think that

people universally just like facts. They like to learn things and they like to do it in a fun way. Do I think that, you know, this could all go away someday? Sure, I do. I think YouTube could all go away someday, not just the popularity of lists. So I don't ever think about the future. I really don't. That's something that I've learned in the last year is live in the present because there's so much happening in my life right now. I mean, I'm here for LA for a week. It would be a terrible thing to think at any point during this week, oh, geez, I wonder if I'm going to lose views next week or subscribers. It's like, man, live in the moment. I'm here now. I'm, I'm, you know, on ear biscuits. Like this is a cool opportunity. I get to see you guys again. Like live for the now, man. Like that's the thing that

I tell people all the time. It's don't worry. Don't live in the past. What's in the past in the past. Don't think about the future because all we have is right now. And you know, that's something that I truly and take risks. That's the most important thing. Is that a, is that a discipline you've required? Or do you think that is a personality makeup that you have that it's a gift that comes along? Oh, no, that's something I've learned. Okay. I mean, I believe it or not, up until recently, I was an extremely conservative person. I had taken a trip to LA by myself, forget about it a year ago, even six months ago. But every single time I realized that every single time I've ever stepped out of my

comfort zone, something amazing has happened from it every single time. And to anyone listening, honestly, that would be my one thing I want you to take away from any of this advice I'm giving is step out of your comfort zone and truly do something that scares you. Do something that sounds amazing but is absolutely terrifying for you. And you will – one of two things will happen. If it's YouTube, some incredible opportunity could come out of it. Or if nothing else, you'll just grow as a person. And that's really important, to grow as a person.

You don't want to stay stagnant and do the same things over and over And that's really important to grow as a person. You don't want to stay stagnant and do the same things over and over because that's a boring life, man. Do something exciting. You know what I mean? So that's, I don't know. That's my PSA. I want to talk about the specifics of how the content has arrived at what it is right now. You know, there's a couple of things. I mean, it's not as simple as, okay, well, I was doing some sketches and now I'm just doing the list videos. But the tone, how I would describe the guy

who is delivering the information in your most recent video versus your first video, right? So in the first video, it was like, okay, I'm a funny guy, I'm a comedian, and I'm gonna do and say some things that are funny, and this is all for your entertainment, this is all to make you laugh. Now it's very much, this is very much about you actually getting what I'm saying, almost to the point that

your tone, your enunciation, you are speaking to the audience as if it is very important that they understand, almost as if you're taking into account that there are people out there who are ESL, you know, English as a second language. You are clarifying things very, almost to the point where you're like, okay, if I'm an American guy your age, I would be like,

I almost feel like you're not speaking to me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I've actually gotten many messages from people that are ESL that have said, my second language is English, but I speak Spanish or I speak French. And your videos are teaching me how to speak English, believe it or not. They'll say things like- I totally believe that. Your pronunciation is excellent. And for the record, I don't actually speak that properly all the time. But doing these videos has really taught me to speak properly

because we all kind of use slang and say like, hey, what's up or something like that, right? Like I just said, something like that. Like I don't, that's how I speak. Like everyone speaks with slang. How did you come to that decision? Did you get, did you by watching the videos back? So I'd watch the videos back and be like, Oh, what did I say there? You know what I mean? Like, and as a viewer, I don't think they're going to understand if I said this word or this word.

So I started really being careful and it happens all the time. And I like, you know, people don't realize how long it takes to make these videos, not just because the research, but I do often, you know, 20 takes on one sentence because I can't get that T out properly. And it's, and it matters. I can't think of any specific example, but just that type of stuff. And it's frustrating, but, you know, I find myself, it's, it's now carrying over to real life where I'll be talking in a conversation and I will purposely catch myself before I even say the word and pronunciate it really correctly. So yeah, it's funny how to go back to what you're saying about my original videos to now, it's you sort of, and tell me if you guys agree with this, you sort of find your

on-camera persona, your presence. You know, when you first start, you're kind kind of you don't know what you look like like now when i make a face i know exactly what it looks like to the other person while i'm making it because i've done it i've seen my face a hundred million different ways right um especially the teeth right i'm just like hey i know exactly what that looks like oh without a doubt a doubt. I mean, you know, I would say we're very much ourselves on Good Mythical Morning, but anyone who listens to Ear Biscuits will know that the tone of what you're gonna get on Ear Biscuit

and what you're gonna get on Good Mythical Morning are, they're distinct, you know? Right. Right, there's a different energy, there's a different. Yeah, same person, but you person but it's a different package. Yeah, definitely relate to that. And you get that, I mean, we've lost the majority of our Southern accent because of watching ourselves

back for years upon years on video. And it's not necessarily, I don't think it's, it's not being ashamed of the Southern accent, but it's a, I don't know how that's coming across to the masses, right? So if I wanna speak to everyone that's coming across to the masses, right? So if I want to speak to everyone, so definitely relate to that. And they say that, you know,

do you guys hear an accent the way I speak? Because I'm Canadian? Yeah. I hear that, do you? I mean, on a number of words, but yeah, not, you know. Explain, like what? I'm curious to hear this because I hear Americans say that all the time.

A-B-O-U-T. Oh God. That's the-O-U-T. Oh, God. It's mostly about. See, you're trying to hide it. I'm trying, but if I say it quickly like about, it's a rounded out. It's not a boot. People exaggerate. When you say a boot, it's not a boot.

It's about. It's O-U. It's rounded. It's strange. I don't know why we do that. But I would say that i mean my advice to all three of us would be let's just kind of keep it where it is right now it's like it's it's been you know it's it's the edges have been taken off of it but we don't want to go any

further you should you should still i should be able to tell that you're canadian by hearing you talk i think that that's an asset yeah i think i think, I think it is. I mean, some people, I mean, look at a British YouTuber, any one of them really, they're super popular. Why? Well, because, you know, Charlie McDonald, for example, he makes great content, but people love that accent. It's a, it's a, a rare import type thing. You know what I'm saying? Like they're, they, they watch it and it's like, Oh, that I like that. It's novel. Yeah. It's novel. It's cool. Another thing that you've done is you, uh, you're clean, you know, oh, I like that accent. Yeah, it's novel. It's cool. Now, another thing that you've done is you're clean. You know, your initial content had some off-color stuff. Tell us about that evolution.

So I never really swore heavily. There's one video that I say everything and a lot of it. And that was just an experimental video to see how it would work. And I got a lot of feedback from that video saying like, especially from like, uh, my family and stuff, they'd, uh, they'd say things like, oh, geez, like we didn't really like that. And I was kind of embarrassed by it. So, uh, I didn't do that ever again.

Um, but yeah, my original videos, I would only say the S word. I'd never said the F word. If I did, I bleeped it and it was intentional. I would write it into the script for comedy, but, But now, because I don't really speak like that, but in now, I purposely leave that out because I know I have a very young audience. So, I mean, I have an audience of all different ages, but really probably from like eight to 16, eight to 20.

So it's still fairly young. I get a lot of letters on my second channel where I do my mail with Matt series, a lot of eight year olds, 10 year olds, 12 year olds. So not just the fact that I know they're watching, but I also get a lot of messages from parents. I get a lot of parents messaging me on my Facebook page saying, Hey, I just wanted to say thank you for your clean content. I love my son watching your videos because he learns things. And that's cool. Like, you know, like I wake up pretty much every morning. I have my coffee through a straw and I sit there and I have my cereal or whatever I'm eating and I answer my Facebook messages.

That's kind of a tradition that I have every day in my tweets and stuff. And a lot of them are from parents, a lot. So that's kind of the, I kind of think to myself, like I have almost an obligation at this point, you know, like 2.5 million people. That's a lot of people. And it's the same thing with you guys. What are you at? 3.5, 3 point something on a good mythical morning. That's a lot of people.

Like, think about that. That's, that's almost double the size of like Toronto, right? So, um, you got to figure, you know, you have probably a lot of people that wake up that expect a certain quality of content, a certain amount of cleanliness. And if you go out there and start dropping F-bombs, it's an off-brand thing. It's a branding thing, really, is what it is. So I just try to keep it clean. Yeah.

Do you see YouTube as a game? Rhett and I refer to playing the YouTube game as our way of characterizing the techniques to build a channel. Do you see it as a game? No, I don't. You know what? I don't see it. Not in a trivialization kind of a way. No, I know what you're saying. But in like a strategic, everything is a decision. What's the thumbnail? Am I in the thumbnail? Am I in every thumbnail? What's the title? Is the I in the thumbnail? Am I in every thumbnail? What's the title? Is the number 10? Well, that stuff matters. And you have to be cognizant of that. And you definitely have to pay attention to that. But I still I'm actually really glad that my growth happened so rapidly so quickly. Because in many ways, I'm still and I'm also glad that I

struggled for so long. Because in many ways, to this day, I'm still and I'm also glad that I struggled for so long because in many ways to this day, I'm still that guy. I still remember having 10,000 subscribers and thinking, man, I would love to be famous because like it's cool to have that many people. I still don't look at myself as famous. I don't really like that word, but I definitely have notoriety now, but it's cool. And yeah, I don't know. I don't look at it as a game. I look at it as, okay, I know what I have to do. I know I have to put myself in the thumbnail with a goofy face with a smile on the teeth.

People expect that. They look for that every Saturday morning. I know that I have to put a 10 in the title. I know that I have to use catchy title like blah, blah, blah. You didn't know or blah, blah, blah of all time or et cetera. You guys know how that stuff works. Very BuzzFeed-y type styles of words. But I don't look at it as what can I do to get the most views?

I don't look at it like that. I use a certain standard, and that's it. Because I don't like to – I never look at my analytics. I never look at – there was a while there when I was getting the 25,000 a day where I was looking at my analytics every day and getting excited about, oh my God, a quarter of a hundred thousand people. It's amazing. But I don't do that anymore because you can really get obsessed with that stuff. And you can really, like I said, it's almost like a drug. Like you start looking for it and it's like, oh, like I wonder how many I'm going to get today. It's like you're fiending for those subscribers. I know this might sound silly to people listening,

but until you actually experience it, it's a bizarre thing. And I don't do that anymore. I just, I'm sort of returning almost to my roots of, I'm just a guy that likes making videos. I just want to continue doing that. And I'm just going to make topics that I find interesting. I've never done i think there have only been one or two occasions where i've done a topic that i really wasn't interested in but was so highly requested that i had to do it but every other video is like what um uh i'm not into zombies much this is actually pre-top 10 i think i'm trying to think now no it wasn't it was top 10 it was Top 10. It was called 10 Ways to Survive the Zombie Apocalypse.

And I'm not a zombie guy. I'm really not. I've never gotten into Walking Dead. I think it's a decent show, but I've never really got into that whole genre. So that's an example of one you wouldn't do now. No, I probably would because, again, it was so highly requested

that it was just something like, I can't ignore this anymore. But 99% of my videos are things that topics that I would find interesting. And that's always how I've done my videos is a topic that I only make videos and put out videos that I would like to see. And I've always run my channel that way. I've never done a video and I've never put anything in a video that I haven't been proud of or have thought to myself, you know, oh, I don't know about that. I've never done that.

It's always been that's cool. I gave my 100% at that. And I think my content shows that. Even as almost amateur as my original videos were, there's still a level of quality there. And I pride myself on that. And I've never uploaded a vlog on my main channel. I mean, I suppose I have one or two, but nothing consistent like that.

Well, I think it's interesting. You're touching on something, which is the balance between leading your audience and being led by your audience, right? Having the audience dictate what you're gonna do and then sort of dictating that for your audience, which any YouTuber, one of the dynamics of YouTube is we are on the opposite end of the spectrum from say, the Coen brothers.

You know, when the Coen brothers sit down or Wes Anderson sits down to conceptualize a film, my impression is they could care less, or they couldn't care less about what people want, right? It's very much about what they want to create. We don't have that luxury in one sense. We have to think, because the audience is so involved, the audience is so responsive and they're so vocal.

I think it's a beautiful thing about YouTube. It sounds to me, one of the things I hear you saying, because we've talked about this evolution of your content, which is very much responding to the audience, letting the audience kind of determine what you were going to make, but you have a strong desire to hold on to, okay, I'm not gonna talk about things

that I'm not interested in, you know, and maybe 1% of the time, but describe that balance of listening and being led by the audience and then leading the audience and coming up with what you're going to do next. It's tough. I mean, I kind of take the Apple approach. You know, people don't know what they want. You just have to give them what they want, make them understand what they want or teach them what they would, that type of thing. As pompous as that sounds, but I think people, for the most part, just- Give them what they don't know they want. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, don't follow what everybody else is doing,

as ironic as that is, because there's a lot of people doing list videos. But I think, you know, not to go off on a tangent, but I think that's what separates us from a lot of people doing list videos um but i think you know not to go off on a tangent but i think that's what separates us from a lot of these other faceless top 10 channels or list channels um and i don't want to name names but i i know the people behind almost all of them um actually i'll just say uh all-time tens you guys are probably familiar with them uh i know the entire team behind all-timeens, amazing videos. But what I think my, and great guys, but I think what my advantage over them in any other list channel, except you guys, because you use your faces,

is I use my face. And people like to be spoken to by a person. And a channel like All Time Tens is fantastic. And I love those guys. But it's just text on a screen with pictures. And there's something to be said for having a personality and speaking to somebody because it's, it's like being in school, you know, when you were in school and you had that really awesome teacher,

everybody's always had that one teacher. It's just, you remember forever because you learn so much and they made learning fun. That's what I aim to do. And I think that's what we kind of all do here is, is we, you know, you guys do it on Good Mythical Morning and you guys have a lot of fun while you're doing it. And the audience picks up on that. And it almost takes down the barrier for learning because when you're in school, people, that's why many people hate school. And they look forward to snow days and crap like that because, you know, they know they're going to come in. They're just going to hear a lecture and it's going to be boring. But I had this one teacher that always told a joke at the beginning of class.

And it just loosened you up. You know what I mean? It took the wall down. So I think that's what to be boring. But I had this one teacher that always told a joke at the beginning of class, and it just loosened you up, you know what I mean? It took the wall down. So I think that's what sets us apart, and I totally forgot what you asked originally now because I totally went off on a tangent. I just asked, why don't you like Danger Dolan? And I think that's what you said. Oh, God.

You know what's funny? I just recently learned, is that a serious question? No, I was just kidding. You said you didn't want to mention names. No. It's faceless, right? Yeah, I was just kidding. You said you didn't want to mention names. No. It's faceless, right? Yeah, I just recently learned who that guy was. And the funny thing is, you know how I found out who he was?

Was because I did a video called the 10 inventors that were killed by their own inventions. And apparently that was like his first video. And I was unaware he even existed. It was also the first thing we talked about. Remember the Niagara Falls. Yeah. Yep. And he came all so many people.

See a lot of the people that subscribe to you, subscribe to me, subscribe to all time, 10 subscribe to danger dollar. And you know, they, people claim rip off all the time. I don't know if you guys get it,

but I get it all the time. And it's like, man, first and foremost, first and foremost, everything is a remix. You guys know what I'm saying? Like there are no original ideas anymore. Everything that could have been done has been done by now.

And there's actually an awesome documentary, a three-part documentary that's free to watch online called Everything is a Remix. Have you guys seen it? I know about it. Yeah. You should watch it. It's really, really good. It's fascinating.

Anyways, definitely check that out. But yeah, I got a whole bunch of comments. Oh, man, you know, you've lost your own ideas. Now you're ripping this person off, you're ripping all time 10s off. And it's like, there are multiple ways to do the same topic. And I, you know, I never and that's when I really, for a while there, I was searching a topic before i did it and i can't tell you how many topics i threw in the trash because they were already done and after a while i realized you know what i'm not searching on youtube anymore because it's probably been done so i'm just going to do it and if people claim ripoff that's cool because i'm still you know there's that's just going to be 300 dislikes out of 50,000 likes. I'm okay with that. So, uh, there's, there's multiple ways to do the same topic and, uh, just make it your own. You know what I mean? And that's another piece of advice I'd tell anyone listening who wants to make YouTube

videos is don't search. If something's been done already, never, ever do that. If you want to do something like, uh, uh, a morning talk show with your best friend and you know, you want to, you and you want to have a rooster shooting fire out of its mouth, who knows if that's been done before? I don't know. But do it. Jump in. Don't research that stuff because it's probably been done and it'll just stop you from doing it. And when you do it yourself, you're going to do it in your own way and you're going to do it with your own personality personality and your own style so just jump into it um don't do the morning thing that's been taken uh yeah but you know what i'm saying it's just everything's been done by now yeah i mean yeah we especially when you're doing especially you know let's say do five videos a week it's we'd run into that problem uh quite a quite a bit and have to kind of make a decision it's like okay well can we do can we do it differently i'm trying to figure out if I agree with that piece of advice, Matt.

I don't know. Which part? The searching before you do. I agree with the sentiment that if you really have in your heart or mind to create something, you should express yourself. Well, and here's an example. I think the reason that we might be more personally

sensitive to this is because our background is in more, you know, like original songs and sketches and that kind of thing. Yeah, we have to Google a topic for a song before we throw as much as we're gonna put into time and money and effort into a music video. Because you can't back out of that. If you make I'm on a Boat,

and you didn't know there was I'm on a Boat, you can't explain to anyone that, that's not like a subject in a top 10 list. Right. That's a specific comedic angle, right? I mean, here's a great example. I don't know if we've ever told this story, but we did a song last year called,

Put the phone down. Yeah, Put the phone down. No, it was called Get Off the Phone Down. Get Off the Phone. And we wrote the song and it was called Put the Phone Down. We had written the song, it was a branded project. So we had written the song and it had been approved by the brand and everything.

And then it was like, you know what, we always check this. I don't know why we didn't check this one, but let's just make sure that this hasn't been done. And we found a video, what's the guy's name? DJ Josh. He did the Whole Foods rap. I can't remember his name. We've met him a couple times.

He did the Whole Foods rap. It's getting real in the Whole Foods parking lot. Yeah, so he's a comedic musician and he did a song called Put the Phone Down and it was a rap and it was, he had not only was it called Put the Phone Down which is what we were gonna call our song, he had some of the same exact jokes. In fact, he had a coffee shop scene in which he was waiting

in line behind someone who was on their phone. We had written a whole verse about being in line behind someone who was at a coffee shop on a phone and there was like two or three other things we were like how does this happen? How do you come up with the exact same title and the exact same jokes? That's bizarre.

Well because that's just the way comedy works, observational comedy especially. So we had to revisit the whole song, we had to change the lyrics, we had to change what we called it because from that standpoint it was like okay well, but I feel, so I disagree and I agree, because in one sense, we're not gonna not talk about

the top 10 whatever it might be just because it's been done because it will have been done. But we just wanna check that, okay, well, maybe it wasn't done last week by a competitive YouTube channel. And let's see if we can come up with a slightly different treatment. So, you know, I think there's just, but you're right.

If you're going to keep yourself from doing something that's been done, well, you're not going to do anything. Yeah, I just meant don't allow it, don't let it be a hindrance to your creativity. Don't be boxed in by it. For example, for myself, if I Googled, I wonder if anyone's doing top 10 lists. Oh, yeah. I would have never been where I am. David Letterman. Actually, yeah, good point. Good point. You know, and it's the same thing. Everybody's done top 10.

David Letterman started it. That probably in some way influenced all time tens. You know, I didn't know who all time tens was because I've been doing videos for four years, but then people started mentioning them on my channel. And then I started talking to them and I met the guys behind the team and everything. But yeah, it's like, you know, I wouldn't be where I am if I started doing, if I didn't start doing top 10 lists at all. Yeah, exactly. Consistently. So yeah, it's, you know, it's got to be a balance, I think. So as you think about where you're going from here, what's next? What does the next year look like? How do you set your path?

How are you going to innovate? Well, I thought this was the pinnacle right here. Am I not done? Isn't this it? Okay, yeah, you can quit now. Oh, perfect. Cool. But if you decide not to quit now.

If I decide not to, oh, jeez, I don't know. I know you don't like to think about the future, but I'm challenging you to think about the future right now. Well, I've been thinking about starting a new series that I really don't want to mention right now because I looked it up and I don't think it's been done. Uh-oh! Shockingly.

But it's exactly in line with what I'm doing now and it makes a whole lot of sense. And unfortunately, I can't talk about it here, but I'll tell you guys after. It's pretty cool. And then we'll tell everybody. Yeah, that's cool. No big deal.

Can we guess? And then you guys might end up doing it. This is what we do is at this point, right now we'll guess. If you guess, I'll tell you. One of us will be right. Oh. Yeah, if you guess it.

No, we don't want to do that to you. Go ahead. Go ahead. Shoot a couple out. I was going to say it. If we guess. It's exactly in line to you. Go ahead. Go ahead. Shoot a couple out. I was going to say. If we guess. It's exactly in line with what I'm doing now. It makes a lot of sense.

Okay. I was going to say a Spanish version of what you're doing. No. Okay. All right. Because you should do that. I think it's still going to be list-based, but it's not going to be facts. It's going to be in 3D.

No, work with me here because he's opened the door. He's opened the door and we're good at this. I think you're about to guess it and I'm worried. Oh, we'll guess it. Oh no. You opened the door. Oh no. Oh no.

focus on me right now, okay? Okay, all right. He's, what he's gonna do, it's still list-based, but instead of being about facts, I would, if I were him, I would go in a direction that maybe is it, is it vice? No. Not advice.

You've done some advice in the past. It's not tips, it's not tips. No, it's in the exact same vein of what I'm doing now. Clips. No. It's more clip driven. No, I think it's going to be examples of something that fit a category, but not facts. So, right? I just throw something out there to try to read it.

It's almost, it's all, see now, you're just fishing. Just give us one hint. Well, you want people to be excited about this, right? But you also, you don't want anybody to steal it. Well, I don't know if I'm going to do it. Oh. And it would, because I know if I say this, someone will end up taking it, and I don't think it's been done yet. I mean. But you're on record saying you've

done it, and then you're going to run back to. I'm thinking about, well, this is in line with what you're saying about the future. To go back to that, what I plan on doing is just continuing what I'm doing, but potentially continuing to evolve in any way that I see fit or that I think is necessary for the continuation of my channel. But also to experiment a little bit and start something. You know, I just want to tell you guys now.

I really shouldn't. All right. Use constraint. Here's an even better idea. Here's an even better idea. Here's an even better. Start your camera, sit down with a stack of mail, and spend the next hour and a half or more making a continuous video of opening and reading mail.

Yeah, do that. That's what you should do. That sounds like a terrible, terrible idea. Well, listen, man, this has been fun. I'm going to rescue you from yourself, so you're not going to throw your amazing idea out there. Thanks for helping us make this Ear Biscuit, it's great to get to know you.

Sign the table. Yeah, I will. Let's do that. Sign it once now. Is that something we do like on air, like right now? Yeah, sign it once. Sometimes. Not 10 times. Oh boy. Can I be beside Jenna Marbles? Oh yeah. Oh my God.

This is the closest I'm ever gonna get. This is the closest I'm ever gonna get, exactly. And there you have it, our conversation with Matt Santoro. Fascinating. You can't boil it down to just 10 points in the list though. I could try. That's what a near biscuit is. How about 50 points? I could boil it down to 50 amazing near biscuit is. Maybe I could, how about 50 points?

I could boil it down to 50 amazing facts about what we just talked about, but that would be difficult to do. Maybe he'll do that. Matt, please don't do that. You don't have to do that. It was fascinating to me for a number of reasons. I think it's, you know, he's one of the only guys

that we've talked to on Near Biscuits who is in the midst of this amazing upswing. A lot of people we've talked to have kind of been through a few ups and downs or whatever. And that question of balancing between, striking a balance between dictating the content and being dictated to by your audience, being led by your audience or leading your audience

is something that I can't help but be introspective about because we're doing a lot of the same things, right? We've touched on some of the same subjects and Good Mythical Morning taps into the same mentality a lot of times we do a lot of list videos, we do videos that we feel like are tapping into what people wanna see. Right, and it's so, you know,

it's easy to, when something's working, it's easy to keep doing it. I appreciated his honest response that, you know, when things start working, it perpetuates itself. It's easy to wanna keep doing it. Now, I think that, you know that there does get to be a point when if you keep doing list videos, maybe he'll get to a point where he has to ask the question,

well, how many more of these do I wanna keep doing? He's already talking about iterating, kind of branching out into something different. I think that's smart. And I think he's- I think you have to do that. He's gotta do that. He's also right that people are not gonna quit wanting to learn. And I don't think that's smart. And I think he's, I think he's, I think you have to do that. He's gotta do that. He's also right that people are not gonna quit wanting to learn.

And I don't think that people are gonna quit wanting to learn having things organized in a list. I mean, this is an old system that's really being implemented onto a new platform. But you look at someone like Ray William Johnson on Equals Three, which he was heavily influenced by, and Ray just couldn't, you know, I haven't talked to Ray about it.

I'd love to get him on Ear Biscuits. But I have surmised that Ray just, he couldn't keep doing the show. He couldn't keep doing Equals Three and setting up the clips and then knocking them down. You know, he had to move on to doing something else, to move into acting and things like that. So even- It wasn't the audience

that dictated that move, it was- Certainly not. It was him. And so I think when we talk to Matt at this point, it's still so fresh that I think when you ask him that question, he's like, yeah, this is what I'm doing, I'm not gonna think too much about the future. What I guess my theory is is I don't think it's gonna be the audience that is going to instigate

a change in content, I think it's gonna be himself. We can relate to that, right? You evolve, you evolve as a creator. Well, and for us, I think our preference is to to not commit so fully to one format, say with Good Mythical Morning, that we're actually afraid of being pigeonholed. And I think that was behind some of my questions was just my own fear of, well, are we not going all in enough

with the things that work because we're not willing to be seen as certain people who just make less videos or eat extreme foods. Right. You can't sustain that five days a week anyway, but taking more of a slow growth model, which things are still working out for us, but he made the comment, you've got to give them what they don't know they want.

I think we throw that around a lot too and trying to figure out, you know, how are we gonna iterate on Good Mythical Morning so it doesn't get stale for the audience or for us. Yeah, and I think the words of wisdom from Matt that are very applicable to anyone who's making YouTube content or aspires to make YouTube content.

Don't get into the numbers chasing game. Even though you may look at what he's done and he's found something that's working and he's getting millions of views, him saying that he's no longer focusing so much on, well, how many subscribers am I getting in a day? And I'm not going in and looking at the analytics because it is something you can really obsess about

and I think it can be really unhealthy. And we've been there. We've been there and it usually happens in the midst of an incredible success is when you really get into it and then it kind of wanes a little bit and you start panicking. Yeah, I also was impressed that he didn't seem

to have a chip on his shoulder about being a list video guy. Yeah. You know, maybe he's still in process but I think that he's dealt with that and you know, he owns it and he says, you know what, I'm gonna make these list videos and they're gonna, people want them

and I'm gonna give them to them and I'm gonna own that. And even if someone else has already done something, I'm gonna do it in my way. And you know, everything is a remix. You know, how much is kind of him preaching to himself? How much is him actually believing those things? I don't know, I think there's a good question. Listen back to it.

Well, let Matt know how much you appreciated him and his ear biscuit. You can do that on Twitter, at Matthew Santoro. He is the at Matthew Santoro account, unless there's someone who has somehow gotten verified and looks exactly like him. But I'm almost sure that's him. So let him know, hashtag Ear Biscuits.

Let us know what you think about this Ear Biscuit and Ear Biscuits in general. You can do that by leaving a comment on iTunes, a review, a rating that's very helpful to us. You can also leave a comment on SoundCloud. And we appreciate you tasting this biscuit with us. We'll bake another one and speak at it next week.