Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 63 Rhett & Link “Weirdest Science Experiments” - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: April 3, 2015

In this special Rhett & Link-only episode, the guys have an “extended Good Mythical Morning style” discussion about some of the weirdest scientific experiments ever conducted. From the Milgram experiment on obedience to electrifying a human corpse like Frankenstein, the listener will not only get to hear interesting details about these bizarre, and even controversial, experiments, but they’ll also ask the question: how far are we willing to experiment in the name of progress? To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Rhett. And I'm Link, joining us today at the round table of dim lighting. That's right, dim. I'll go with it, okay? Yeah. I saw some of your comments on SoundCloud,

your biscuteers, and tweets, saying that I should go with dim lighting and I'm gonna do it. Because it's correct. No more arguments. No, just because the people have spoken. It doesn't matter. I think we've determined over the years of being internet tenors, it doesn't matter what's correct.

It matters what the comments say. Okay. So can we just live with that? Just follow the comments. Can we just live with that? Did you say who was joining us? No, joining us today at the round table of dim lighting is me and Rhett.

And ourselves. Yeah, both of us. It's another Rhett and Link-only Ear Biscuit and I am excited about this, Link. We're gonna be talking. I am too, yeah. About the weirdest, oh, well, almost knocked. Turned over your water bottle. Sorry, almost spilled water right in my lap.

You're that excited. Yeah, I'm so excited, I'm spilling things. The weirdest science. But the cap was on it. Yeah, it was. The weirdest scientific experiments ever. And the great thing about this is this is the kind of thing that we would normally talk about on Good Mythical Morning.

Right, and so I would say that this is an experiment in and of itself as an ear biscuit. I mean, we try to limit our Good Mythical Morning episodes to around 12 minutes, little less, little more, that's kind of how we approach it. But there's lots of times that we just wanna keep talking about something or we find something that we'd wanna talk about on GMM, yet we find that we would have to give

a short shrift. A short shrift? A short shrift. We're gonna give it a long shrift. A short shrift? A short shrift. We're gonna give it a long shrift, whatever a shrift is, we're gonna give it that today because we want to actually explore these things in a more conversational setting and not have to hurry through them

because any one of these experiments that we're gonna talk about this week could be its own book, its own, well, at least its own episode of GMAT. Oh yeah, like a Russian scientist creating a two-headed dog. Yes. Yeah, things are gonna get a little weird and interesting on this biscuit.

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and to show your support for Ear Biscuits. And we wanna thank Squarespace for their support of Ear Biscuits. And now let's get back to the biscuit. of Ear Biscuits. And now let's get back to the biscuit. Will normal people do heinous things just because an authority figure asked them to? I'm gonna say, is this rhetorical question?

You can answer it, you're here. Is it rhetorical? Yeah, but Link can answer it. I'm gonna say yes because that would make an interesting experiment if that was proven and a boring experiment if it wasn't. What if you- Why would you be talking about it?

What if you were asked to murder an innocent person as part of an experiment? How do you think you would respond to that? This is an experiment? Yeah. Okay, okay, no, okay. I'll you think you would respond to that? This is an experiment? Yeah. Okay, okay. No, okay, I'll go with you. Of course not. You think that.

You think that. We'll come back to this answer. Okay. This is a- I've gone on record as saying, of course not. I just want to make sure that you heard that. This is a very well-known experiment. You probably, if you've been to college and you took a psychology class,

you probably heard about the Milgram experiment. I was just looking at the girls, man. All, I mean, I'm- Well, when you're an engineering major, the girls are in the psychology class. I had like three or four girls that I would just look at the whole time I was in the class. It was embarrassing to me, really,

the more I think about it, it was like, there's the girl who sits over there with the dark hair. There's the girl who sits over there with the blonde hair. there's the girl who sits over there with the blonde hair, there's the girl that sits behind me, I have to turn around and look at her, it's kind of awkward. Well, there's psychology involved in that awkwardness, so I mean- Never talked to him, what was wrong with me?

You were learning some psychology? I'm not sure if we studied this one. I don't remember this experiment. But this study comes from 1961, Yale University. Milgram, Stanley Milgram, he told his subjects that they were participating in an experiment to determine the effect of punishment on learning.

Okay. One volunteer who was actually an actor that he had hired would try to memorize a series of word pairs. So I don't know if they were rhyming words or whatever, but it's just two words that go together. So the subject- Was he a volunteer or was he an actor?

He was an actor acting like a volunteer. Got it. But the subject, the person who the experiment was actually being done upon, who I will call the subject, would say the first word and then ask the actor for the word pair that goes along with it. So the subject would test the volunteer, the actor. Exactly, if I was the volunteer, the actor,

and you were the subject, I would try to memorize dog frog, and you would say dog, and I would have to say frog. Got it. I'm sure it was harder than that. Now, if he got it wrong, the subject would push a button to shock the actor. I'm using quotes, shock the actor because it wasn't really shocking him, it was staged.

Shock him with 15 volts. And then he increased by 15 volts each time he got it wrong. Okay, so the guy- This begins to add up quickly if you've ever been shocked. So he would actually, each time he got it wrong. Okay, so the guy- This begins to add up quickly if you've ever been shocked. So he would actually, the actor would get it wrong and then he would act like it hurt.

Exactly, and once the shock level got to 120 volts, about 120 volts, which is pretty serious, the actor would start saying, hey, this really hurts. He would protest. He would protest. In 150 volts, he would, as expected, again, he's acting, but you don't know that as the subject, he would start screaming and demanding to be let out.

Like, let out of what? I don't wanna be in this experiment anymore. This is crazy, I'm dying here, stop this. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, was he breaking the fourth wall at that point? But not really, I mean, he's not saying he's an actor, he's just saying, I want out. Can't take it, it hurts, it hurts too much.

Was he right there in front of him? Was he like in a quarantine booth kind of a thing? I don't have pictures, but I'm sure you can see them online somewhere. But just assume that he's sitting, I picture him sitting across. Now, at this point, if the subject who's doing the shocking, the person who is doing the shocking,

who's being experimented upon, turns around and asks the researcher who's sitting in the room what to do like, hey, the guy's saying he wants to get out of here, they would always respond with, the experiment requires that you continue. The experiment requires that you continue. The experiment requires that you continue. Okay, the results are absolutely crazy. Two thirds of people, the majority,

continue to press the shock button all the way to 450 volts, which is the end of the scale, which basically means they would have killed this guy if this was real. Oh my goodness, so they maxed out the knob. Yeah, I mean, the dude's sitting there screaming. You have every indication that the guy is going to die, but because a researcher who's apparently in charge has told you to do this, you keep doing it.

Two thirds. What was the magic incantation to get him to continue? The experiment requires that you continue. That's all you gotta say. Now listen, what do you think about what Milgram wrote? Kinda scary. This is what Milgram wrote in conclusion. He said, I would say on the basis of having observed

a thousand people in the experiment and having my own intuition shaped and informed by these experiments, that if a system of death camps were set up in the United States of the sort we had seen in Nazi Germany, one would be able to find sufficient personnel for those camps in any medium-sized American town. This is the phenomenon. Just go up to your average

normal person in Lillington, North Carolina. And the experiment requires that you continue. And they'll kill somebody. And they'll just turn up the heat. Hmm, that is compliance. No, so let me ask you again. Let me that you continue. And they'll kill somebody. And they'll just turn up the heat. Hmm, that is compliance. No, so let me ask you again. Let me ask you again. Would you, Link, it's like that show, What Would You Do?

Are you in the one third of people who would not do it? Are you in the two thirds of most people who would protest? Everyone likes to think that they're in the one third, but they can't be in the one third. At least one third of those people are wrong. I don't think that's statistically valid. No, at least 1 1 2 3rds people are wrong. No statistics you're about to say

is anything you're not making up, but I get your point. 1 1 2 3rds people are wrong. Let's not get into math, this is about psychology. Odds are you're not in the one third. That's what you're trying to say. Yeah. So, but. Okay, so, okay, yeah, I would kill somebody

if you said the experiment requires that you kill this person. I wouldn't. Oh, you're in the one third. I am confident to say that I feel like I'm in the one third. You are not a compliant individual, but. And neither are you. But you put on a lab coat and I'm just like,

oh, I guess he knows something I don't. Yeah, but the unfair thing about it is, A, lab coats are involved and you have to quantify the power of a lab coat, but B. I distrust lab coats. You cannot, no person in their right mind thinks that they're about to kill somebody. I mean, they know that it's an experiment.

It's not like, I mean, give me a break. Everybody who is involved in an experiment knows I'm not gonna kill somebody. Well, until I heard, well, I'll take that back because all, what year did this happen? 1961. Okay, that's still late enough that people would know, but there's some experiments later on that are,

I can't believe they exist that we're gonna get to. And so if it was much earlier in time, then I think a murder experiment could have happened and probably has sadly, but not in the 60s. I would say that- People would know that. It's a combination of two things, people's willingness to submit to authority

and the second thing being the slow ascension. You know, if it was just, okay, you gotta press this button and this guy's going to die. No, it's the fact that they went up 15 volts at a time. It's the whole frog in the boiling water theory, which is you do it slowly and he doesn't know. If you submit people to, if you get people to do crazy things

and it slowly increases, they're more likely to comply to ridiculous demands if you ease them into it. It's not just say, hey, kill this guy, increase it by 15 volts. I mean, he got through the last 15 volts. So there's people who are predisposed to submit to authority and those who are predisposed to reject authority.

If we're gonna really simplify this thing, I wonder if that's one third, two third. I don't know, I don't know math. There's gotta be more followers than leaders or there's more, you know. Yeah, I think that the moral of this one is be in the one third guys, don't be in the two thirds. Be in the one third.

I'm gonna tell my kids about that one tonight. Over dinner? Over dinner. And I'm gonna hook them up and say, put this cathode on your finger. You got cathodes around? Yeah, I have them under my dinner table. I conduct a cathode-based experiment with my children

after dinner every night. Smart. I call it family time. Keep them in line. All right, I got one here. Have you ever grabbed an electric fence? Yeah, I peed on one too. I know, I was there. I was looking the other way.

You shouldn't do that. It's Pultex. Oh, okay, for the record, you did not pee on an electric fence, but I was there. I was looking the other way. You shouldn't do that. It's pulse aids. Oh, okay, for the record, you did not pee on an electric fence, but I was there when like we would- I have peed on one. Have you? Yeah. I wasn't there for that, but I've grabbed one,

I've stepped over one and grazed it accidentally. You know, it's like a ball of electric current goes through, it makes you feel alive, you know? And it pulses, that's the thing that's so amazing about it. Have you ever seen a dead guy grab an electric fence? No, I don't think that could happen. Well, it does if there's like a scientist that makes him do it.

A scientist was there. In 1780, Luigi Galvani, an Italian anatomy professor, found out that you could make the limbs of a dead frog twitch. Now, see, you're talking about frogs. I'm gonna talk about frogs. Okay limbs of a dead frog twitch. Now see, you're talking about frogs, I'm gonna talk about frogs. Okay. Make a dead frog twitch by giving it

a shock of electricity. That makes sense to me. And then scientists all over Europe began to copy this dude's experience. Hey, you heard about the guy doing the frog thing? That sounds like fun, man. Let's all get in on that. You know, it's like, it taps into like

what all little boys wanna do. They like to shock things. Yeah, and see them move. Or burn things. Right. Or break things. But one Italian physicist, Giovanni Aldini, had bigger plans. He thought, what's better than electrocuting a frog?

Perhaps a corpse. That's right, a human corpse. Yeah. And this was no secret experiment either. Aldini took a tour all around Europe demonstrating shocking corpses. Well this is back. This was 1803.

Okay, so this is a good time for that kind of thing. You know, this is back when you could show up at a state fair and there'd be a scientist like shocking a dead body. I mean, what happened? That's the good old days. We used the term scientist very liberally back then. Okay, his most notable demonstration happened

on January 17th, 1803, when he hooked up a 120 volt battery to the body of an executed murderer, George Forster. They used to do that kind of thing. They would do all kinds of things with people, with murderers. Executed murderers, just play with them, just have fun with them. Yeah, he murdered people, let's put them on display. Make them a scarecrow or something. Yeah, learn something or get some entertainment it. Yeah, he murdered people, let's put him on display. Make him a scarecrow or something.

Yeah, learn something or get some entertainment value. Yeah. First he placed the wires on his mouth and ears and his jaw muscles started to quiver. And then he, Al Dino. He would start like making the murderers, like he was talking. Ben Triloquist, he didn't do that.

I don't believe that. I'm sorry for my crimes. You're making that part up. I did make that part up. But he did put it on his mouth and his ear. And his jaw muscles quivered. Then his left eye opened and looked at the audience. He shocked him in his left eye open.

Now I'd pay to see that. It was a reverse wink from a dead murderer. Wow. Yeah, I'd pay five tickets at the fair for that. I'd do a dollar, which is what used to be the cost of seeing the world's largest horse. Okay, grand finale, Aldini clipped one wire to an ear and stuck another wire up the rectum.

Wow, that's the butthole, right? Okay, Forrester's corpse shook and shuddered all around the table. The London Times described it thus, quote, it appeared to the uninformed part of the bystanders as if the wretched man was on the eve of being restored to life. Like he was coming back to life is what they thought.

Well, when a person moves, it's usually a sign that they're alive. Or that you're killing them. But if he was already back to life is what they thought. Well, when a person moves, it's usually a sign that they're alive. Or that you're killing them. But if he was already dead. Yeah. So, I mean, I think this is less of an experiment. I guess there's stuff to be learned in 1803 by doing this and just more of a really cool demonstration.

I mean, I was taught as a third grader the difference between a demonstration and an experiment and the difference is whether you can charge admission to it. Oh, really? Well, this is definitely a demonstration, but the, and the difference is whether you can charge admission to it, I think. Oh really? Well this is definitely a demonstration, but the interesting thing about it is, I guess at this point they were beginning to discover, from a serious scientific perspective,

that muscles are activated by electricity. Electricity, yeah. So, I mean, and there were other researchers who tried electrifying corpses, hoping they could bring them back to life. You know, that was part of it. Can we bring these people back? Right, exactly.

And you know, if they put them in- Did they? Not that I know of. Okay. But these experiments were inspiration for Mary Shelley's writing of Frankenstein, which is 1816 is when she wrote that. Right. So- That's why, you know, Frankenstein, which is 1816, is when she wrote that. Right. So.

That's why, you know, Frankenstein had the little nodes on the sides of his neck. And that's where you hooked him up. I haven't read the document, the novel. But it's not a document, it is a novel. You've seen a movie, I'm sure. A novel is a document. I've seen pictures.

It's a very long document. I have not seen the movie either. But I would go and see this guy if he did that. You know, they were, it reminds me- Do you think it's wrong? Hmm, ethical? Do you think that this is, well, two things. Do you think that it's wrong to experiment

with the bodies of convicted criminals? I would say yes. Yeah, I mean, but if you donate your body to science, I mean, there's enough people who are doing that. If somebody donates their body to science, do you think at that point, no, let's just go all the way. Let's say that somebody, let's say that I donate my body to being electrified,

it fares. Oh. Let's just say I go all the way, I sign a thing that says, you can do this, I'm happy to see you to have this done to me. Make me wink at the audience, but it's gotta benefit my kids. Well, I didn't, you know,

you don't have to get into the details. I'm just saying, I really submit to this. But is it wrong for you then to go and enjoy this? Is it wrong to enjoy a dead body being electrocuted and positioned in weird ways? Not if they signed a waiver asking for it. If it was part of their wishes and they were cool with it, then I'm cool with being entertained by it.

But I don't wanna do it against their wish. I don't wanna dishonor them as a person. But if, I mean but if it honored them and it gained some scratch for the kids to go to college, it's a win-win. It's a college fund. Everybody wins. Okay, well then let's do that.

What do you mean? Whoever dies first will put the other guy on display as an electric doll at state fairs around the world. I wonder, we really need to Google if we could be arrested for that. There's some states they won't arrest you for that. We gotta find those. Some states. We gotta find those states.

There's some counties within some states where they're waiting for it. Body World or whatever that is. I thought about that. You're talking about the skinned artists. I've seen that stuff, man. You paid the money, because they charge a lot of money.

I don't remember, but it's weird. I've seen like one or two displays that are that thing. And what did you learn? He's gross. Gross, I learned gross. But if that guy can do that, you go one step further and make them into mobile things. What's wrong with that?

Like mobiles hanging from the ceiling? No, just like they become mobile. They start moving with electricity. Robots. Whatever you wanna call it, I want to do it. If you want in, and we gotta get the documentation in place for the college fund. Right, right, yeah.

We need another excuse to talk to the lawyer, so let's go for that. Give me another experiment. Okay, I've always wondered that when somebody gets decapitated, do they stay alive and conscious for a while? This is incredibly morbid thought, I understand. But especially in a case like- But you're being honest, this is incredibly morbid thought, I understand. But especially in a case like-

But you're being honest, this is a safe place. Right, there's like a guillotine involved where it's like a clean cut, boom, your head's off. How long do you stay alive and conscious? Well, and a further question is, under the right circumstances, if you were hooked up to the right sort of machinery, could you just be ahead indefinitely?

In life. Get ahead in life. Put a pun like that in there. Well, isn't there, there's like a cartoon character from some series that's just ahead. This has been done a lot, actually. Been done a lot. I know of none of it, but I'm sure everyone knows.

And yep, you're right. Thanks for telling us. Well, the Russians back in the late 1920s were also wondering the same very thing. So Soviet doctor Sergei Brokinenko created a machine he called the autojector, which was basically a mechanical heart slash lung. And using the autojector,

he was able to keep the severed head of a dog alive. He didn't go for human, he went for dog. And you're gonna see as we go through this that using animals for these things was much, happened a lot back in the day. Much more accepted than it is today and we're not gonna comment on that. Well, we might.

In 1928, he brought his dog head to the third Congress of Physiologists of the USSR. These scientists are exhibitionists, man. Like back in the day, it was like, I'm not only gonna learn something, but I'm gonna put on a show. Yeah, think about it. He's like, I got this dog head.

I'm gonna take it to the convention center. Of course. Everybody's gonna think I'm awesome. I guess to be fair, this was a physiologist. This was not like a normal like crowd of people. Oh, but it's still an audience. Of its peers, which is even better. Oh yeah, when you impress an audience of your peers,

you're even cooler. I mean, he wasn't doing this for science. He was doing this for cool points. Oh gosh. He shows up with this dog head. Now I'm gonna go ahead and tell you, there is a video of this on YouTube. I don't know if it's from this exact demonstration.

I think he did this several times. It is a horrible video. Do not watch it, okay? But I know you're gonna go watch it now and I'm not gonna tell you how to search for it, but- I'm watching it right now. There's a video of this on YouTube. Now- It's a dog.

It's a white dog's head on a plate with like- Some tubes hooked up to it. Tubes coming out of the neck of it. And he just looks like he's sleeping. Like if you zoomed in far enough, oh, look at the dog sleeping on a plate. He ate his dinner and then he fell asleep. But the real question is how do you-

Then you zoom out. How do you really impress your friends, your scientist friends? Well, you have to prove that the dog is alive. You gotta make him wink. So he does the following things. He takes a hammer and he bangs it on the table next to the head and the head flinches.

What? He shines a large light into the eyes of the dog and the dog blinks. And then, yes, listen guys, he feeds the dog a piece of cheese and it comes out the back of the dog's head because it's just a head. Oh!

Dogs like cheese? Dog heads do. Apparently. Oh man, and what are the physiologists doing? I mean, they're just like taking notes, Instagram and the crap out of that. Let me explain something to you. We, okay, in the year 2015, I'm gonna pontificate,

is that a word, yes, a little bit. In 2015, we know a whole lot of things, right? And when we see stuff like this, it's just, this is heinous, this is wrong, poor dog, this is crazy, these people were nuts. But you gotta put yourself in their shoes, right? You gotta go back to the 1920s when we're, now that we're not still discovering things,

but this was just absolutely fascinating. I mean, they are discovering so many things that it's almost like they forget the fact that they've sacrificed a dog to do a cool experiment. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that you gotta put yourself- Culturally. You gotta put yourself in their shoes for just one second. It is a cool experiment. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that you gotta put yourself- Culturally. You gotta put yourself in their shoes

for just one second. But what ended up happening with this severed dog head is it became a phenomenon in Europe. It became a sensation. Like they gave it a name? Everybody was talking about it. He had his own talk show? Like, hey, feed me a piece of cheese.

Well, the dog didn't live for that long, but it didn't live indefinitely. Did he have a TV special? Not even, well, TV was, I don't know, it was pretty rudimentary back there, but I will say that playwright George Bernard Shaw, you may have heard of him, was quoted as saying about this dog,

I am even tempted to have my own head cut off so that I can continue to dictate plays and books without being bothered by illness, without having to dress and undress, without having to eat, without having anything else to do other than to produce masterpieces of dramatic art and literature. So he saw this as an opportunity.

He wanted to be ahead. To simplify his life and I mean, just focus on one thing. I mean, come on, Mr. Shaw. Well, okay, let me just ask you. Life is more than just your occupation, man. Your masterpieces of dramatic art and literature. But you tell me, if it was an option for you

as you got old, let's say, in this world, there's a new rule, when you're 90 years old, if you've made it to 90, what we do is we cut your head off. We either let you just go on and live and then die normally, or you can get your head cut off and you can be a head on a plate for like a guaranteed 50 more years. Would you do it?

For 50 more years? 50 more years, would you do it? For 50 more years? 50 more years, you'd be a head on a plate. Answer that one, because then I'm gonna add something to it. So a 90 year old head on a plate. Yeah, but 90 year old head's fine. You don't have to worry about the 90 year old body decaying anymore.

I thought you were gonna put me on a, like a robotic body. I'm going there. Oh, I'm sorry. What about a plate? Would you be on a plate? I'd shine light in your eyes around conferences everywhere. Yes, yes.

I'll do it for the kids again. Daddy's head on a plate. Well, your kids will be like. Not for their entertainment. 65 years old themselves. You'll do it for the grandkids. You'll do it for the great years old themselves. You'll do it for the grandkids. You'll do it for the great grandkids. I'll do it for the great grandkids, you're right.

Okay, now, you said yes to that. I thought you'd say no. I was gonna up the ante. I'll say no, that's gross. I'm not gonna be a head on a plate. Okay, now you get to be attached to a robotic body. An awesome RoboCop body. No, it doesn't even have to be awesome and RoboCop-ish.

Well okay, what is it, like a Wally? It can just be like Wally, yeah. Okay. It can just look like, it can just be a, attach it to the front of a car. I mean like the hood ornament of a car. Like the hood ornament. But you can control the car, it's like a huge Cadillac,

but you now, your head controls the whole car. I'd make car noises when I drove around. Well, you wouldn't have to do that. There's still an engine. But that would be cool, right? Yeah, yeah. Here I am. And then I could get my head attached to a car.

I'd probably go first, because I'm a little older than you. I'm a year older than you. Right, you'd be even a caddy. So I go first and then a year later, you become a car. I'd be on a little smart car so I could get into things. Like I could still go to the opera.

I'd be on a scooter then. Well, scooter. Scooter head ornament. There's no hood on a scooter. Head ornament. That's just on top of the handlebars. Head hood ornament. So, but seriously,

if my head could be put on a robotic body at age 90, I'd totally do it. I'm totally in. Scientists, please figure that out. Oh yeah. You want me to give you another experiment? Yeah, I do. This is not gonna be gross at all.

And this one has nothing to do with dogs at all. Or dog heads. Let's go there to the outskirts of Moscow. Vladimir Demikhov, a Soviet scientist, had access to some German shepherds. Oh, that's all it takes as a Russian scientist to have access to German shepherds around 1954. Yeah, he said to himself,

I know what I'll do. I'll take the head from that dog and attach it to this dog. Boom, two-headed dog. Boom, two headed dog. Oh gosh. Yes, he created a two headed dog in a lab. A two headed dog. Both heads viable.

He started with a full grown German Shepherd. Then he took the head and shoulders and front legs of a puppy. Oh gosh. German Shepherd and grafted them onto the neck of the full grown German Shepherd and grafted them onto the neck of the full grown German Shepherd. And there's photos of this. Both heads were alive as I said,

and he did this multiple times. Now people ask him why and he said that the dogs were part of a continuing series of experiments in surgical techniques so that he could learn how to perform a human heart and lung transplant. Okay. Because as we know.

That sounds like an excuse. Human hearts and human lungs are totally synonymous with German shepherd puppy heads. Well, I will say you don't know that. I mean, first of all, Yeah, yeah, that's true. I think a lot of these things are motivated by just scientists

who are a little bit off their rocker, a little demented. But the weird thing that you definitely have to admit is that these guys figured stuff out. It worked and there's stuff to be learned. But let me guess, did he parade it around, you ask? Yes, all around the world, he took his two-headed dogs. Journalists would gasp as both heads simultaneously lapped up bowls of milk,

and then they'd cringe as the milk from the puppy head dribbled out of the unconnected stump of his esophagus. Oh, come on, that's just, I couldn't watch that. I'm sorry, I mean, it's just like the cheese. I'm a pretty messed that's just, I couldn't watch that. I'm sorry, I mean, it's just like the cheese. I'm a pretty messed up dude and I couldn't watch that. You know. You watch it with one eye closed. You think so?

Yep. One eye closed, one eye open, and then the other eye would open and both eyes would be looking at it. Because I know you. I mean, how many times you get to see that? You can't do it now. If you traveled back in time and you were there,

you'd look, I think with both eyes. The Soviet Union boasted that the dogs were proof of their nation's medical preeminence. So they'd made it a political thing. Who else has put a puppy on a dog? Puppy head. Over the next 15 years, Demikhov created a total of 22 headed dogs.

Wow. None of them lived too long. They succumbed to problems of tissue rejection. Oh really, there were problems with this? Yeah. The longest one lived like a month and another surgeon beat him to his goal of learning how to perform a human heart and lung transplant.

Oh, because he was probably trying human hearts and lungs. Well, that's got its own set of complications, but that was Dr. Christian Barnard in 1967 who did that. But Demikhov is widely credited with paving the way for it. So I mean, it's hard for us from this vantage point, especially as comedians to not just poo poo this thing or to oo oo this thing or to judge this thing. But I don't know, I'm not taking up for it,

but I'm just observing that people make a connection between the heart and lung transplant and the two-headed dog. Again, again, when you're on- And the connection is at the neck, by the way. Right, right at the neck. Not completely though, because the milk still comes out

the back of the puppy's head. Right. Listen. The esophagus stump. I have a feeling, I have a feeling that 99% of the people listening to this Ear Biscuit are like, oh, this is horrible and this is the worst thing ever. And clearly, if, this is,

if I had to make a long list of things that shouldn't be done and things that I don't want to see, puppy attached to dog is probably on that list. But it's interesting when you're on the side of the benefit of all these things, how easy it is to say, but if you've got a, if your dad right now is desperately in need of a heart transplant or a lung transplant and the experiments- He actually is.

Oh, come on. No, he's not. Somebody, seriously, somebody- He's doing great. Somebody's dad and somebody listening to this may be in need of an organ transplant. Right. And would you say that, and this is a moral question, right?

This is an ethics question. If we could not have human organ transplants unless somebody did weird stuff like this back in 1954, what do you say to that? Does that mean that, oh, okay, I wouldn't do it. I don't want my dad to get a heart transplant. I don't want my dad to get a heart transplant. I don't want my dad to get a lung transplant. We're really getting on the whole-

Hey, the debate rages on and I'm not intimately acquainted with it. And I'm not stating on one side or the other. I'm presenting the interesting ethical- Dilemma. Dilemma, yes. It is one, you can't deny it, you can't just say, nope, you can't do that, you can't do that.

Because sometimes people benefit. And there's whole college courses on that too that I'm sure pretty girls were in those classes too, like ethics, I never took any of those ethics courses. So I'm going to deflect your question and make a joke about pretty girls in ethics college classes. Well, let's continue on. Let's see what else people have done.

How about this? Imagine if you are a bullfighter. Okay, I'm there. Eyes are closed. I'm waving the red blanket, whatever that thing's called. It's 1963 in Cordova, Spain are closed. I'm waving the red blanket, whatever that thing's called. It's 1963 in Cordova, Spain. Hola. And your name is Jose Delgado.

Tatanka. That's different. Well, that's Native American, but this is Spain. Well, that's Costner. There's a bull charging right at you. Okay, I'm scared. I'm peeing my pants a little. And you have a remote control.

Yeah, I carry one with me at all times. And as the bull charges at you, you're seemingly defenseless. You're standing there. Am I Adam Sandler in that movie where I can just pause life? It's not. That no one's seen. Click.

Click. Is that what it's called? You actually don't know the name of it. It's something like that, that may be it. He presses a button on his remote control and the bull immediately stops, huffs and puffs a little bit, and then walks away seemingly disinterested. Docile?

Yes. This is an experiment? This happened. Jose Delgado from Yale, another guy from Yale, they did some weird stuff at Yale too, implanted a chip in a bull's brain. Potato chip. I don't think a potato chip would have worked.

This is a microchip that was controlled by this remote control. Well, let's skip to the potato chip experiments. Can we cut to the chase? We'll do that one. Okay. He called this thing the Stimosever, Stimosever, and it could manipulate the behavior of the bull. It was a computer chip operated by remote control

that could electrically stimulate different parts of the bull's brain. And he did things like get it to stop charging, but that was because he was doing a lot of things, including controlling appetite, controlling the emotions of the bull. The emotions of a bull. Yeah, all with a remote control.

Wow. I feel bad for the bull. But at least he's got a body. He didn't sever his head, did he? It's not just a bull head, it's a full bull. He didn't like for the bull. But at least he's got a body. He didn't sever his head, did he? It's not just a bull head, it's a full bull. He didn't like put the bull head on a remote control car. No, he didn't. Okay, good.

Now, emotions and all that? Yeah, so people are really shocked to hear about this happening in 1963. This is like a very, seems like a science fiction movie. Seems like, oh, you can't do that even now. But during the 70s and 80s, there was a lot of research into electrical stimulation called ESB, electrical simulation of the brain.

But it began to fade away by the end of the 80s. And most people didn't like the idea because they thought it could be used to control people's minds, people's minds and thoughts. And so if we could get computer chips implanted in people's minds, then maybe the government could tap in and control everybody. But then he's saying, or you could control your own mind

and your own emotions. Well, I'm sure people have thought that. There are some interesting questions about this. I mean, this ESB research has been on the rise and there are reports that scientists and researchers are creating remote controlled rats, pigeons, and even sharks in places around the world. But if you send them like over too many stairs at once,

it totally breaks and then like your four-year-old is like totally dejected and- Oh, you're like talking like a Christmas present. Like instead of a remote control car, you get a remote control pigeon. Yeah, and then it's like, well, if it gets too far away, you gotta chase after it. But then it's not centered.

So when you press forward, it goes to the left. Dad, why does he keep going to the left? I don't know, son. It's a cheap remote control bull. But the batteries don't run out. That's the worst part of a remote control car is like you get like 10 minutes. First of all, when you get a remote control car at Christmas,

you open the thing up and it's like, A, it's not charged. So all we have to wait 12 hours before we play with that. It's the next day, it's the day after Christmas, nobody cares anymore. It's like, dad, the bull's just standing there. He's not doing anything. Well, you gotta charge him up.

Well, no, but the point is you don't have to do that with a bull, Link. Bulls don't have batteries. Checkmate. It's just a bull. So I'm saying the advantage of having the remote control bull is- Right out of the box, he's bullish.

He's in the front yard, he's eating grass, he's running around, he's doing whatever you want him to do. He's having emotions. Yeah. Like, look, I'm making him sad. Look at how sad the bull is. He's hungry and now he's sad. Seems wrong, I will say that.

Making a bull sad is- But what if I could put a computer chip in your brain- Why you always gotta be doing stuff to me all of a sudden? And make you like 35 IQ points higher. Or if I could- But I'm 90 years old and I'm a head on a plate still? No, you don't have to combine experiments. Okay, good.

Or what if, you know, somebody's got some debilitating brain disease and you can put a microchip in there and they can not get Alzheimer's or something. Yes, that's a good idea. How are we gonna figure that out? We gotta put it in a bull first, right? I'm just enjoying playing the devil's advocate here.

It's interesting, it's interesting. But what did you- Would you ride a remote control bull? I've never ridden one of those bulls in- I'd much prefer to ride a bull I can control with a remote than one I'm just gonna. Like a bull at the bar? Like one of those.

Yeah. I've never been on one of those, I got a bad back. I would, I'm not gonna get on a bull unless I can control it's emotions. Right or wrong, that's the only way I'm getting on a bull. Like I'm no cowboy. Yeah, noted. Is that all you got to say about the bull?

Cause I don't want to cut you off. Sure, yeah. I moved to the next one. We didn't, did we learn anything about the bull? I mean, I learned that it worked. There's no conclusion. I don't know what else he did with the bull. All right, here's one for you.

How far would you go to prove a theory as a scientist? Now, could you, I mean, listen, you like to be right. And to your credit, you are often right. Oh really? I thought you were gonna say always. No. Stubbins Firth, a doctor in training living in Philadelphia during the early 19th century,

went way too far to prove this theory. Okay, contrary to popular belief, Firth, who by the way, Firth, that's his last name, it has two Fs at the beginning. Yeah, it's Firth. So it's Firth is how I wanna say it. I just wanna go Firth. Firth hypothesized, contrary to popular belief,

that yellow fever, this is in the early 1800s, was not contagious because it broke out much more in the summer than in the winter. He theorized it was caused by an excess of stimulants such as heat, food, and noise. I mean, you gotta have a theory, okay? And then you gotta test your theory. And that was his theory, okay?

I'm not, you know, it's 1804. I think this might just be a case of correlation doesn't always mean causation. He didn't set out to just test his theory. I mean, the dude went all the way to prove his theory. He was not afraid to expose himself to yellow fever. How did he go about that? First, he made incisions on his arms

and poured fresh black vomit. Whoa. That is a quote obtained from a yellow fever patient into his cuts. Hold on, so when you get yellow fever, you make black vomit? Fresh black vomit comes out of your- Black and yellow, black and yellow.

That's what the song means, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's all about yellow fever and the black vomit. Smearing the fresh black vomit in his cuts. Why is it black? Because of the fever. I don't know, it should be yellow. Sometimes if you-

The fever's yellow, the vomit's black. Just get over it, okay? But what I'm thinking is sometimes if you do like Pepto-Bismol, it makes your poop black. Is that a similar effect? I've never black vomited. You've never had yellow fever either. True. He didn't get sick.

Next, he tried some vomit eye drops. Oh gosh. Which you don't go to the pharmacy and buy those. You have to be a scientist, you have to make those. Or you just have to be a guy with fresh black vomit and an eye drop. What is, this guy. He didn't get sick.

Firth didn't get sick. Firth didn't get sick. He started getting creative at that point. He fried up some on a skillet and inhaled the fumes because everything's better fried. We've established that. Even yellow fever. Did this guy have an audience? That's a good question.

Was this like one of the- I didn't picture people watching him like drop vomit in his eyes, but I would have watched. I pictured him in one of those demonstration kitchens. Step right up, he's frying yellow fever. Well, no, like an infomercial, like a Ron Popeil kitchen. You know, look, I'm frying up the vomit,

black vomit, fried. It's gotta be fresh. I'm gonna inhale it. Look, Barb, he's inhaling it. He did not get sick. He did not get sick. He got clinical at this point and he made yellow fever pills and swallowed those.

Didn't get sick. Okay, but listen, if you're gonna put it in your eyes, put it in your cuts, if you're gonna fry it up, of course, if you make pills, I don't know. I don't know, you know, in pills- He wanted to be thorough. Thorough. Okay, I get it.

Eventually he was like, screw it. I'm just gonna drink entire glasses of pure undiluted black vomit. I'm just gonna drink, I'm so thirsty. Oh man. How do you do that? I mean, we've eaten a lot of weird things in our time. Not that, he did not get sick.

He rounded out his experiment by liberally smearing himself with other yellow fever tainted fluids, blood, saliva, perspiration, and urine. This dude, he's committed. Where's he getting this stuff? People dying left and right and he's just like- Hold on, sir, hold on, sir. Give me a urine sample.

What do you need that for? If you're gonna vomit, vomit right here into this eye drop container. Or right into my sir. Give me a urine sample. What do you need that for? If you're gonna vomit, vomit right here into this eye drop container. Or right into my mouth. Or into my skillet. Oh gosh. Please vomit directly into the skillet.

The dude's totally healthy. Maybe he's just got immunity to yellow fever. He proved his theory. Right, yellow fever is not contagious. Proven by Firth. Actually, yellow fever is very contagious. Oh, science fail. We now know that it requires direct transmission

into the bloodstream, usually by a mosquito. All the dude had to do was get him a mosquito. If I would've told him that, he'd be like, you mean to tell me I've been drinking vomit all this time. All I had to do to die of yellow fever was get a mosquito. I've been trying so hard to die of yellow fever. Just get a mosquito. Now, so when I-

It was a miracle this dude remained alive, I mean, with all these experiments that he's, because- What else did this guy do? I wouldn't read a book about Stubbins Firth. I don't know, I'll Google him later. I'll IMDB him. I bet he's been a star of stuff in the early 1800s.

If this guy's drinking vomit for things, I can only imagine what is in his journal and the rest of the stuff that he did. All he really needed to do was cut somebody, cut himself and put yellow fever blood. He did that, that's the thing. No, he didn't do that. He made incisions on his arms and poured vomit.

Yeah, but if he made incisions on his arms and poured blood into those. Yes, not vomit. He would have gotten yellow fever. He was fixated on the vomit. For somebody who's frying up black vomit, he missed a really good opportunity to just actually infect himself.

No, drinking blood won't do it either. No, it won't, unless you have an open wound in your mouth. Blood to blood contact. Yes, I did say that. You are correct. Thank you for holding me to the truth of that. What would you drink vomit for, Link? Probably three million views.

Three million views? Yeah, normal people talk about how much they get paid. We talk about how many views we get. That's a 10 million view threshold for me. I'm gonna answer honestly now, but I have to think for a second. 10 million views. 10 million views?

We've got videos with 10 million views. 100 million views. It would have to be the most viewed video on earth. And I know, I wouldn't do it. It wouldn't do it because if it's the most viewed video on earth, it's a video of you drinking vomit. I know, and that's so shameless. You don't wanna be known for that.

I wouldn't know. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. It's like a feedback loop. By the time it gets worth it, it doesn't make sense anymore. You know, there's no way I would drink vomit unless it was to like save the life of someone that I loved. But that's an interesting experiment.

Or maybe just save the life of anyone. Put the fresh black vomit in a cup, parade in YouTubers, and then just start promising views and see who goes for it first. I'm gonna shock this person unless you drink this vomit. No, it's purely a view experiment. What would you do for views? Oh my goodness.

Sounds like a reality show. A dirty reality show. Oh gosh. Just like makes you feel creepy for watching it. What would you do for views? You can't turn away. We should produce that and have nothing else to do with it. Not be associated publicly with it at all.

Put under a different company with a different name. Right. Like shamefulproductions.com. A Rhett and Link subsidiary. It would still have to say that. Wow. Yeah, I mean. Boy, we came up with a good idea.

Can we move on from the black vomit? We can. Our last experiment comes from a graduate student from the University of Minnesota in 1924. Now this is a graduate student from the University of Minnesota in 1924. Now this is a graduate student that apparently had unprecedented access to the school's collection of rats. Carney Landis.

What's his name? First name was Carney? Carney, yes, you know he's up to no good. He was studying psychology and he wondered if people make the same facial expressions when exposed to the same stimuli. Now, you may remember that we did this experiment or we talked about this experiment on Good Mythical Morning.

We did the thing where they had done an experiment where they told people to capture two different emotions together, like happy anger or sad anger or happy surprise. And then we did them. We tried to do it, but then there was like a guy, the findings were that people, there was a standard response to these things. People around the world cross-culturally

would make approximately the same expressions to capture the same emotions. Now, this guy back in 1924. In other words, to prove it, in another country when you're really angry with somebody, you don't smile. Exactly. People instinctively smile when they're happy

and they frown when they're sad and much more specific than that. In other words, facial expressions are not cultural, at least not exclusively cultural. But this one gets a little cray cray. This one's weird, okay? So this graduate student gets his fellow graduate students to be his subjects.

Then he paints lines on their faces so he could see their facial expressions better. Where, was he like on the other end of a football field or something? No, he just wanted to be very, very precise. Okay. Then he started doing a lot of weird stuff right in front of them.

Well, he gets them to smell ammonia, smelling something very strong, pungent. Gets them to look at porn. Okay. He gets them to look at porn. Okay. He gets them to reach into a bucket of frogs. Lots of frogs. So we already know why all his friends showed up. It's like, okay, you get to look at porn and touch frogs.

Okay. If you're into either one of those, you can do it for free, and they lined up. Well, but then it gets a little, it gets worse. Okay. Finally, he brings out a white rat on a tray and asks them to decapitate it. Was it alive and breathing?

Yes, a live white rat from the school's lab. Oh my goodness. Brings it out, says decapitate it. Now, if you remember our first experiment, Link, what percentage of people were willing to murder the guy in the first experiment? 75%. Nope. Nope, 66%.

Exactly, 66.66666666666%. Oh. Two thirds of these people decapitated the rat when asked to. You're kidding me, what? No! Two thirds, two thirds. It's one thing to shock a screaming person

who you don't really believe is gonna die. It's another thing to murder. Oh my gosh. Did you just make that weird noise with your mouth? I drank some water and then it like, it was the sound of a rat decapitation. I was picturing that and then you made that noise. It was really unpleasant.

Sorry. Now, but let me tell you a little, let me tell you a little something about Carney. For the other one third, he decapitated the rat for them. When they wouldn't do it, he would step in and do it? So three thirds of all rats were decapitated in this experiment, that's all rats. Dang, Carney.

He sounds like a Carney. This guy was demented. He was missing some teeth and he was like, had his hand on the lever of the Ferris wheel. Here, let me do it, here, give me that rat. Say give me five tickets, I'll let you go around the Ferris wheel twice. You wanna go on the Himalaya, it goes forward and backwards.

Oh. If you give me four more tickets, I'll let you go backwards twice as long. So this guy, it makes me wonder. You see this, you see this rat? Is it? Chop his head off and let me take a picture of your face while you're doing it. This is for science. Hold on, hold on.

Let me draw some lines on there first. Let me draw some lines on your face first. Be still. Let me paint your face in decapitated red first. You don't want to decapitate the red, that's fine. I'll step in here and do it. Okay. But make sure you look at it and smile for the Instagram. So do you think that,

we'll get into the results of this experiment in a second, but do you think that people go into these fields, at least back in the day when you could do all this weird stuff, because they're demented? Do you think that people go into science so they can decapitate rats? Because there are people who like to do this kind of thing. Yeah, and I hope so.

Serial killers. Because the other explanation is disturbing. That normal people are just gonna do these things and be cool with it. Right, because- I wanna know that they're demented. Because I would venture to say that even if we were doing this podcast back in 1924,

which is impossible, there were no podcasts back then, there were radio programs. Listen, people suspend their disbelief the moment they press play on an ear biscuit. Really? Yeah. So go with it. Okay, so we're doing this podcast back in 1924. Two thirds of the listeners would have done this,

would have decapitated a rat when their friend, Carney, their friend who they know is named Carney, asked them to do this. He's already gotten in to look at porn and reach into a bucket of frogs. And then he asked them to decapitate a rat. Two thirds of you people would do this. But I would venture to say that 99% of you

think that you wouldn't. And you say, well, it's a different day and age. We're not in 1924 anymore. But there's something, and maybe that's true, but there's something that is being revealed. You know, it's probably a lot of things. Compliance, there's lots of factors here. Again, it's going back to the first one

with the making people squeal and scream and taking the dial up to 11, so to speak. Was that where he went with the experiment? No. Even though this explores the same phenomenon as the first experiment, people's willingness to obey an authority, he totally missed that and did not focus on it at all.

He was only interested in the facial expressions. This was- He didn't even think twice about it. His assumption was everybody's gonna chop up a giraffe. Of course, and if they don't, I will. I'll step in. I gotta get to my answer. I'm not even fascinated with that.

This is years before the Milgram experiment. You know, he could have been famous for proving that. Compliance. Compliance. But instead, he focused on the facial expressions and his conclusion was that you could not match emotions and facial expressions, which is crazy because in more recent science, at least according to the science that we use on GMM,

it has been determined that these are relatively consistent across cultures that people make similar expressions. I think maybe it was just because he was doing really weird stuff. Or maybe he drew the lines in the wrong place. Maybe his lines were inconsistent. Maybe he's a bad drawer. I think the emotions associated with decapitating

a live rat are pretty complicated. Maybe it's just too complex. I don't wanna reduce that to, well, you know what I do? Gross. There is no universal facial expression for gross, heinous, I'm not comfortable doing this, but I am doing this. Like that, you know, there's ambivalent emotions happening. What's the expression that you make

when Carney takes the rat for you and decapitates it? I think it's just like, what? I'm making an expression that's like, what? And I'm never hanging out with you again, Carney. Interestingly enough, it's probably very similar to the expression I make when I get to the front of the line of the double Ferris wheel and I make eye contact with Kearney. I was like, oh, this is not good.

This is not a good thing. I'm not gonna tell anybody this ever happened. The thing about the Kearney's at the Los Angeles County Fair is that they're not, they don't look like normal Kearney's. They look too clean cut. Have you noticed that? No.

It's too bad. I've been to the county fair here, which is basically the same size as the North Carolina State Fair. Has all the same stuff, food, rides, animals. None of them are being decapitated or experimented on. Carnies aren't what they used to be. But the carnies are just, they don't have any missing teeth.

Every carny that I dealt with at the Los Angeles County Fair had full sets of teeth, at least in the front region. Maybe they were missing some molars, but I couldn't see. But back at the North Carolina State Fair, buddy, let me tell you, I'm sure it's still going strong. I mean, the missing tooth is where you hold the cigarette. You know, that's what I gleaned from the carnies.

Ah. What have we learned today? I think, you know, as we begin to wrap up this Ear Biscuit, I feel I've had a lot of fun learning about these things. I've learned people did a lot of weird stuff. I am disturbed and I'm entertained, you know. What does that say about you? And what does that say about me?

Because I'm also fascinated and entertained by this. I like to consider myself as the one third. I like to say I wouldn't kill a person or an animal I think doing this is proven as an experiment. as we're both in the two thirds. By devoting a whole hour to this, we may be in the two thirds.

I like to think of myself- Well, what facial expression are you making listening to this right now? You look at yourself in the mirror. Who's still listening, Link? It's a real question. What, you know, look at yourself in your mirror. The puppy on the other dog. They're gone. They were gone.

If you're still here, look at your face in the mirror and see what expression you're making and see if you can, see if you're okay with that. I mean, I think that we raised some interesting questions. I would love to- We got an ethics. To see your feedback on this because- Anatomy? I think that these questions of what is acceptable

Exhibitionism? In terms of experimentation for the benefit, and I'm not talking about, hey, let's test a shampoo on a rat because shampoo isn't life changing or life saving. But if it's life saving for humans, is it ethical for there to be experiments on animals? I mean, it's happening everywhere in the world right now

and you are benefiting from it in every single day that you live, if you just live in modern society. So you're experiencing the benefit of it, is it right or wrong? So there's an ethical question for you to chew on. Are you gonna invite them to hashtag Ear Biscuits this? Because are we gonna take this to the social media forum?

I don't know, we probably shouldn't. We probably shouldn't get that serious, Link. People won't know what to do with themselves. Why don't we do this? We do like the conversation, so comment along on SoundCloud. Of course, you're at the end of the episode, but that's just a reminder.

You can comment along if you're listening on SoundCloud or let us know using hashtag Ear Biscuits what you think of this episode or this kind of format in general. You know, we're still very much committed to the default interview installment of Ear Biscuits, but every month we try to do a Rhett and Link only one and this is a new type, you know, installment of Ear Biscuits. But every month we try to do a Rhett and Link only one and this is a new type.

You know, that's GMM expanded director's cut conversation version. So let us know what you think about that. We also appreciate you leaving an iTunes review. And I'll leave you with one question, a more pointed question, not just the sort of esoteric question of, you know, what should we do to animals to benefit humans?

More precisely, would you decapitate a rat if you knew that it would save someone's life somewhere in the world? Yes. I bet you there are people out there who say, no, I'm not gonna do that. Because if you say yes to that, then it's a difficult question to see,

well, where does that lead? Where does it lead, Link? Dun, dun, dun. That was my deflection. I'll go and tell you right now, if Carney gave me a rat and said, if you decapitate this rat, it'll save a person's life, I wouldn't hesitate to do it.

What if it would save two rats lives? That's a good question, Link. Right, equal.