Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 66 Corridor Digital - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: April 24, 2015

The founding directors and visual effects masterminds behind Corridor Digital, Sam Gorski and Niko Pueringer, join Rhett & Link this week to discuss what inspired the viral video “Superman with a GoPro” and how they got away with using drones to film it, the innovative new series they directed “SnapperHero” that was exclusively on Snapchat, and the “wildcard,” a concept they created to help solve arguments that occur on set between creative duos. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Link. And I'm Rhett. Joining us today at the round table of dim lighting are Sam Gorski and Nico Perringer, the founding directors and visual effects masterminds behind the popular YouTube channel Corridor Digital. Corridor Digital delivers a unique and impressive style

to the digital media space producing high quality science fiction and video game inspired shorts, often on tight budgets. Their visual effects and their videos are some of the best on YouTube. Yes, right, I said it, some of the best on YouTube. And in the past five years- Why don't you just say the best on YouTube, Link?

Okay, I'll say it. They're the best on YouTube. Oh, what? Oh. I don't know. We also had Freddie Wong on this show. Is this gonna become a Freddie W versus Corridor Digital? They're all friends and they're all great guys, come on.

And collaborators. Yes, they are. But Corridor Digital is great. Let's just focus on them, right? In the past five years, they've gained over three million subscribers and 300 million views. They're also helping to redefine sci-fi because they're bringing a lot of comedy to their videos,

like Minecraft, the last mine cart, which has over 30 million views, or Superman with a GoPro, which has over 16 million views. You can see these are more than just cool sci-fi videos. There's a lighthearted and comical tone beneath all of this stimulating visual effects, which really resonates with the internet audience. Another example is a video called

Superheroes versus Game Heroes with over 2 million views and climbing. Can you guess what that one's about? Superheroes versus video game heroes. That's what it's about. Oh, thanks for clarifying. So you got Thor facing off against Steve from Minecraft, great video.

I'd play a clip for you, but it's so much about the visual. You pretty much have to go to their channel to experience how talented these guys really are. And you should do that after you listen to this, Biscuit, where we talked to Sam and Nico about how they met and bonded over Star Wars, what inspired that Superman with a GoPro video, and how they get away with using drones in a lot of the videos they film.

The new series they directed exclusively on Snapchat called Snapper Hero, and how they deal with arguments, because we can learn something from this, on set by using a brilliant concept they invented called the wild card. Oh yeah, okay. So we'll get into all that,

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Now, onto the biscuit. Let's step through a few of your recent videos recent videos well we'll start with a favorite one which isn't quite as recent but um superman with a gopro um so i mean this is this is amazing it performed extremely well um you've got superman strapping on the gopro on his head and then taking you know you taking the what was it that was, it had your name on it. He had like a lost GoPro and he put it on his head and flew around with it.

Ah, yes. And then he took it off his head at the end and gave it back. And this was right around the time when you started seeing people use drones in their videos and you're like, who's gonna do the next cool thing? And you guys sort of took it up a few notches. Yeah, so what's the genesis of the idea for you?

And then we'll talk a little bit about the execution of it. Well, Brandon was, for those out there who are unaware, the Freddie W channel used to be Freddie Wong and Brandon Lodge. And Brandon is still in the same building that we are. So we'll frequently work together and do stuff together. I mean, we run a gaming show together. But he needed to shoot this short little video

where he was on the roof of our building and Christmas presents were shooting out of his butt or something like that. I can't quite remember the details. Anyways, he needed an aerial shot. That was pretty detailed. Yeah, well, I remember this. Something like that.

I'm picturing Christmas presents coming out of Brandon's butt. That's as detailed as I want to get. I'm pretty sure it was something like that. Like he flew away using like Christmas presents as his propulsion. Okay, yeah. Yeah, coming out of his butt. So we were getting this aerial shot with the drone and, you know, just treating it like a crane. You're just hovering it over the thing, you know, over Brandon.

And we were done. I'm like, cool. And I just, you know, cranked the throttle and decided to fly it around a little bit because we were out there the sun was setting it was pretty and as I like floored it and like just started kind of having fun like the thought occurred to me like man this is you know it's really cool it's like you're flying I mean it's whatever biggest revelation in the world but the thing is we're flying a GoPro on the on the drone at the time ox that's the camera that it carried and so i got to kind of thinking like

you know gopro is like you know sports footage you wear the gopro and you fly i'm like oh you could maybe do something with like wearing a gopro and flying so that's kind of how it started um and from there like we like sam and i were talking coming up with different ideas uh you know do you just somebody pops a gopro on their head and they start flying. What else can you do? I guess you could green screen some arms in front and, you know, make it look a little more natural like you're actually, you know, filming with it. You can do some visual effects and do transitions like somebody's running on the ground and they leap and then, you know, transitions to drone footage. I think we did a test like that where we're just running on the ground and just pretended to do a little hop and then transition to drone footage.

And it worked flawlessly cuz yeah and that's just a cut like a cut in the edit pretty ready there's no like wish panty oh yeah there's like a little bit of tweak and sometimes you know just to blend the shots but not too much things the GoPro is like it's shaky it has this natural shake and that shake is perfect for like breaking your visual concentration for like that brief moment it takes. So you just flew the drone in approximately the same place that you just shot that the guy with the GoPro on his head just like jumped. Exactly.

Just match up. Approximated his height and then took off. Yep. From there. Exactly. And so we were kind of working from there. So we had a solid idea. It was a really cool visual.

I wonder if we even still have that old video clip on our phones. you remember you posted on vimeo or something like that where sam was just experimenting and we're showing to everybody just blowing their mind like this you know sam just running and then something like jumping up in the air and you know flying up really high um and then the next thing that we did was you know start thinking about like how can we make this into a real video concept outside of just i'm a dude flying and when it comes to youtube it's thankfully this land of like loose ip management and we decided to pick a character that everybody's familiar with which was superman um you know because superman can fly and superman with a gopro sounds like a pretty interesting video that you'd want to watch but it doesn't just quite end right there.

Because you could throw a GoPro on Superman's head. You could have him fly around. And that's neat. And that's cool. And it's, you know, I'm sure some people would share it. But it's always nice to just get a little bit of that storyline in there. A little bit of that through line to, like, put that button on the package. And that's when Sam came up with the whole idea of, like, oh, a lost GoPro.

Why don't I just get some sweet shots while I go deliver it to its owner? Right, because why else would Superman be flying around with a GoPro? Exactly. And then that was the video. But can you fly a drone over Dodger Stadium legally? I don't know. We didn't actually shoot that shot. At the time, we were working with a friend, Taylor.

Yeah. Yeah, what was his last name? Chin. Taylor Chin. Yeah, what was his last name? Chin. Taylor Chin. Yeah, that guy's a total baller. He owns this site called- He's throwing him under the bus. Oh, I said over the bus.

That's what Superman would do. Throwing him over the bus. But he owns this site called dronefly.com, and he's basically- One of the original drone pilots. He's a drone pilot, and this guy, he runs the site. And basically, we'd worked with him a few times in the past. And basically, he does training sessions for people. And so, a couple shots in that video were him out in training sessions and just filming crazy stuff. And then he sends it back to us and we just put the green screen arms over it.

Right. So, like going over the observatory, that kind of thing. The observatory was us. Oh, it really was. Yeah. I mean, it's a little bit of a mix here and there. Yeah, the shots that Taylor did that he did by himself was at Dodger Stadium. Actually, he was showing the drones to firefighters so they could use it to look at burning buildings

or something like that or forest fires. Because there's a training facility out by Dodger Stadium. And so since he was right by there, we wanted to get some landmark shots. So he just went and got the stadium shot. He also did one where he just like flying around i think sherman oaks which is like near the end when superman's flying back to sam's house he basically did all the complicated shots in that piece but it's pretty loose what's legal oh boy yeah we've been talking about this it's well first yeah like trying to figure it out

right now yeah because you put i mean you've got drone shots and everything everything at this point i mean it's uh this superman video we did has been honestly one of like the most like the biggest videos we've released not only because it was the fastest growing but the way it's affected like our relationships and networks between like other companies and interviews and just like all these like things and opportunities have actually come out of it which is really cool like um you know last year and this year at nab we've like been doing like professional panels there and uh we won this like the new york city drone film festival with that that video and um and uh we just did an interview too with the wall street journal recently where this drone gray area came up. Yeah.

And yeah, there's no clear, there's no actual definitive answer on anything right now. Because there weren't any rules to begin with. Like when he shot Superman with a GoPro, there was like no regulation. There's no rules. And then the FAA said, you know what? No commercial flying until we no rules. And then the FAA said, you know what? No commercial flying until we make rules. At which point, everybody who was doing flying for video and film and real estate was like, I'm going to keep doing it.

They're like, stop me. My invoice now says graphic design instead of drone flying. Yeah. Well, because you get the sense. Even that shot, especially because the stadium is empty at the time, you get the sense that you're seeing something that you're not supposed to see. And I mean, I think there was a story about this recently and it just makes sense that this is gonna start happening

more and more. Just, okay, hey, there's a celebrity that I'm a fan of. I know where they live. I'm just gonna fly drawn into their backyard and go right into the open back door. I mean, it's so easy to do, right? The problem is getting it back when they shut the back door. Okay, we'll just fly over the pool, you know?

That's true. And I think that's to the credit of the community out there of drone pilots is that you really haven't heard any horror stories yet. You haven't heard of anybody really getting too injured or things like flying a drone into a celebrity's backyard or something like that or looking through the bedroom window it only takes one yeah it does only take one south park episode though no the drone one okay well it's just uh what you mentioned they're flying it into a backyard and up to someone's windows that's what the episode's about you should you should check it out because

that's the first thing that you think about, I guess, for the year. Yeah, right. I mean, Matt Stone, or if you're...

Yeah. Trey Barker. Well, let's talk about another one. The ghillie suit, man. I don't even know if that's how you say it.

Yeah, that's the right way. I didn't know, if you told me what a ghillie suit was, I'd be like, I don't know, and I'm from North Carolina

where there's plenty of hunters, but when I saw it, I was like, oh, it's the suit that hunters wear. It's basically like a walking duck blind for hunting and blending in. Yep. Did you have experience with that? Like a camouflage jetty. Was it just like somebody had one and you're like, oh, well, we've got to do something with that.

We decided to get one for that project specifically, yeah. Well, we play a lot of video games. And if you play a lot of first-person shooters, you're pretty familiar with the concept of a ghillie suit. It's like the ultimate sniper camouflage. The funny thing, that video has more of a story with us to do as a studio and growing as a production company. Because over the past year, we've actually ran a Patreon campaign.

Basically, it's crowdfunding for our videos. And this is only for our videos that aren't sponsored. So it lets us, you know, get a little crazier and actually like, you know,

pay our crew and that kind of stuff when we're just doing a, you know, simple video that's not, you know, not supported by anything other than ad revenue.

Right. So people pledge a monthly contribution, $1, $10. You can do monthly or you can do by video. And so we actually do it by video.

Okay. And in return, we offer like rewards for those videos. Like so we actually do it by video. In return, we offer rewards for those videos. We'll actually, at a certain tier, we give people all the After Effects files for our effects shots so they can actually see how we did all our effects. But the Ghillie suit video is

actually, for those who don't know, we have a third kind of guy in Quarter Digital and his name is Jake Watson. And he's our producer. And he helps put together all the shoots and helps, you know, we're all trying to run the business and he helps with that as well. And then we have another kind of team that's expanding.

We have Ren, uh, Ren Weichman who runs the YouTube channel, Ren the Reaper. Um, he's done a lot of his own stuff. That's really cool, but he's kind of working with us full time now,

along with a couple other people here and there. But the Ghillie suit was actually jake going out and wanting to put a piece together because you know sam and i are going to do all the fun stuff we're going to direct and come up with all these ideas so jake's sitting there like i'm kind of want to do some fun stuff yeah we weren't actually on set for any of that um yeah yeah and uh and that's actually been kind of this thing we were trying to figure out how to do these days because we have so many talented people we work with and there's only so many you know projects we can be involved with at one time so it's basically the last few months in combination also with you know working with people on patreon is is this opportunity for other people

to come in and have their ideas made and they can direct and you know we still have that channel to post things on and so so your patreon account you basically I mean as of looking today it's like right around five grand per video yeah so you said to Jake hey alright here's five grand make that one pretty ever take pretty much like give or take yeah and to be fair like when it comes to patreon the actual number of dollars you get is usually about 75% of what you actually see okay just because that's like what's pledged, but what people actually, what you actually get when you run credit cards when the time comes.

Right. It tends to be a little different. But yeah. But yeah, so that was a chance for like, you know, for Jake to go out and actually hire a camera guy who's, you know, a friend that we've worked with a ton, but you know, hire a guy who can come out and shoot it who's talented at that. Okay. Hire some talented actors, hire, you know.

I get it. So I mean it represents you guys growing from just being a two-man outfit, or I know you've been working and certainly collaborating with many people over the years and have people that you work with that you hire, but taking that next step. But it still fits the tone of your brand.

Definitely. That is, okay, you've got, the brand is a mix of special effects and action and comedy. And so, I've found it interesting that that was more, I mean, it had some special effects in it. A guy got shot, check, check the box, right? But it's much more of a comedic video. But there's elements of comedy in pretty much,

well, I wouldn't say every single one, but most of the videos you do, that's a part of your, is that something that when you think about your brand, is it that defined that, well, we're gonna take the comedic take on this? Or is that because it gets more views? I mean, honestly, when it comes to making a video three minutes long or four minutes long, I mean, making things funny, lighthearted is, I feel like, the key to success on online videos.

Because to really snap somebody into a a serious like you know perspective when they're watching something it it takes i think a little bit more like immersion uh than online video can offer uh you know you're watching something on your phone it's like how quickly are you gonna get like seriously emotionally invested in something that's very serious like it's it's harder to do that on a two, three minute scale. So we've kind of like tried to find that way to, you know, avoid, I guess, avoid like accidentally like making something super serious and then it comes off really goofy and no one gets it.

And it's like, you know, it's in the interest of keeping things fun and entertaining and not slowing things down too much. How did you discover that? Was it just an instinct? It's more of an of keeping things fun and entertaining and not slowing things down too much. How did you discover that? Was it just an instinct? It's more of an instinct, I feel like. I mean, because, you know, it's like we love really cool, serious movies. And like David Fincher is one of my favorite directors. And most of his stuff is like, you know, 90% serious.

Right. But, you know, I feel like as YouTube um and also our personalities too it's like when you're making video game inspired stuff fun and entertaining aspects of that are like so important to getting it right so you know it's interesting because it's i mean that's that's quite an insight i i think that do you guys kind of see yourself or do you want to be guys who are kind of changing the landscape and the way people think about sci-fi or you know it's putting more humor into that landscape and the way that you guys have kind of done it on the internet now moving into something that's you know longer form but still carries that humor yeah well definitely excuse me i think as people like as a younger generation

that has grown up around cameras grows older and older they start to see the process just a little bit more and within that process is a certain sense of humor also the more serious something gets the easier it is to get a laugh out of somebody you know it's that whole like comedic relief at the end of yeah you know intense scene so even just us going out and shooting something like we have to remain aware and acknowledge when stuff is getting too overblown or too dramatic and you can still have a dramatic moment you can totally make it so people can enjoy that dramatic moment but you have to also be able to acknowledge when you're getting ridiculous and

like when you're going over the top are you guys philosophical when it comes to these things you certainly seem very thoughtful is that the type of thing that i mean you you have a thoughtful approach to it uh is it does it define the type of conversations you have i mean yeah pretty much i'd say so we try to like we don't actually have that i mean we have enough experience from the last few years on youtube and really getting our content out there before that we'd made videos together and we just didn't really have that big of an audience to like discuss and get critiques from. But after doing it on YouTube, like even though we haven't tried everything, we don't actually have experience, you know, like all around the board.

But we certainly have at least like, you know, you have those you get those intuitions very quickly after doing stuff. And I'm sure you guys have that, too. It's like what works, what doesn't work, even if you haven't tried it it or you you know you you know you can imagine it working out or not working out and it starts to just guide you so yeah it's just really that collection of experiences gut instinct gets you pretty far but after you've been doing it for a couple years and you start to have a team of people that like are actually living off you know the production company you want to start stepping away from gut instincts and trying to define how things are working

just a little bit more specifically. Well, let's go back to the beginning, the developing of those instincts. When did you guys first meet? Like junior high school. We actually worked together on the video for the first time in ninth grade when we made a Star Wars fan film.

Only about 14 years ago. Is that one on YouTube? The Star Wars Phantom? It's not yet. We're uploading it April 1st. Not yet. April 1st. It's coming out.

It's going to be the best thumbnail you've ever seen. But it's going to be a 14-year-old. A 14-year-old leak on a 14-year-old Sam. It's 14 years old and we were 14 years old. So by the time this comes out, it will have been out so people will be able to watch it. Yes. So speak freely. Yeah by the time this comes out, it will have been out, so people will be able to watch it. Yes.

So speak freely. Yeah. Everyone check this out. All right. So is this an April Fool's prank? Yeah, more or less. Yeah, it's because people are going to see our subscription feed, and they're going to see we upload this super sick, half-hour-long Star Wars fan film out of the blue.

And there's a behind-the the scenes to go with it. We're going to talk about how you go from meeting to making a half hour Star Wars film. Well, that's what, you know, ninth grade, you don't got a lot of things on your plate. Yeah.

That's really about all I can say. I mean, the Phantom Menace just came out. So I was like, Star Wars is pretty cool again. Who had the camera? Sam did. I had the camera. Sam is a dad and mother. GL1.

Had actually ran like an online news business back in the day. And like Sam had all the swankiest gear. I thought they just started with the GL2. I didn't even know about the GL1. The GL1 is such a nice camera. Yeah, it's pretty great. It's pretty great. So what kind of effects did you guys throw in there and how did you achieve those

frame by frame you know in after effects so you can like animate things over like a few frames we didn't we weren't even doing that for our lasers and lightsabers that was like it was frame by frame in photoshop imagine drawing a line over your and like yeah just like line after line after line so i think sam did lightsabers for a month no it's even longer than that three three months and what was your uh intention with the film at the time dude be in star wars be a part of it yeah and uh yeah and we did it but 14 years ago where who were you going to show it to best Best friends. The internet? I don't know. The school news broadcasting program or whatever.

George Lucas. Big hopes. It's going to be the best Star Wars fan film anybody's ever seen. I think really in all seriousness a total of probably about 20 people have seen it. Not anymore. But you've talked about it because people like to talk about it. But on the internet though it's going to be hundreds think deep down inside like part of me like i knew i

wanted to film like way back then and so i think there's a part of me that's like someday someday when like i've made it i'm gonna put this out there and everybody's gonna see it so that day is uh whenever this comes out minus however many days it is April 1st. So you've made it. Is that what you're saying? I mean, because I think that's a... A lot of us, as we struggle to define the genre, and you can always say there's that next thing I want to do as an artist or as a creator

or I want to get that many more views or subscribers or I want to make this type of film, it's hard to know, to take that moment, to take that breath and assess and say, you know, the dream that I had as a kid, I'm actually living that now. So you're saying you had that realization. Yeah. I actually had two benchmarks for when I had made it.

Oh, wow. One was- Actual qualifications. At Smart and Final, they had this large, extra huge pack of bacon. I was like, when I buy that pack of bacon, I'll have made it. Well, I'll have made it part one. Did you buy it? Harley of Mornstein bought it when we did our collab with Epic Mealtime.

That exact same branded pack. What is it, like a $40 thing of bacon? Yeah, that's not like, when a bearded, belligerent Canadian buys me bacon, then I wasn't counting. Yeah, except you see, like, I made it because we were doing a collab with Epic Meal Time,

one of the biggest channels at the time. It was symbolic. It was symbolic. Okay, it was symbolic bacon. And the second one? Well, Star Wars. Our Star Wars fan film going up and confusing

hopefully hundreds of thousands of people okay finally seeing it finally having wait what's the name of the new audience then that spin-off star wars movie oh i know which one you're talking about yeah that's gonna be the title of the one we released just by sheer coincidence did you guys have i i ask you this because know, we've known each other forever and had these ambitions and we would, we would have these over serious conversations

about what we wanted to accomplish when we grew up. Did you guys have those kinds of conversations that you kind of look back and you're like, wow, we were,

we were dreaming. We were crazy. You know, I mean, honestly, the only conversation that we kind of still have is like all right what is like when are we going to make that huge big budget project you know whatever that form comes in but like even in like back in high school even like after this after finishing the star wars you know project you know that was still the thing is like man i wonder when that's going gonna happen how do you do that like how does that even

like come into existence you know and we're still like very close to hopefully figuring that out but like still that's that's that one little nagging one where it's like how do we make something like the stuff we saw up in that movie theater screen or on TV or wherever you know so like yeah I don't know we've always been pushing towards that do you guys have a moment or like a benchmark at which you consider you made it well um

the smart and final across the street has uh like this huge thing of toilet paper and it's so soft. You wouldn't believe it. You can barely fit it in the trunk. No one's ever opened it. Do we

have a benchmark like that? A bacon benchmark? Yeah, a bacon benchmark. I think it's very much a you just kind of find yourself I think it's very much a, you just kind of find yourself in this process

and you're like, well, if I could, a year ago, if I had known we were gonna be doing this, I would have been very surprised, but now that we're doing it, I'm still thinking that this isn't that cool and what are we gonna do a year from now? Yeah. And I kind of feel like that's just a constant mindset

that anybody in this business who's ambitious and who has a goal, you know, because when you talk about that thing, you know, that really resonates with me, that thing that seems not that there's anything wrong or anything, we're not belittling YouTube and having an online audience. And, you know, we could have And we never set out to achieve much

with Good Mythical Morning, and that's become like one of our main things, right, in terms of audience. Not that those things are not important, but yeah, you always think, oh, but it still doesn't feel like I've done the thing that I respected in a certain way my entire life. Yeah, and I feel like in a weird way,

like that will almost never happen you'll never catch it it's never gonna you shouldn't catch it right because if you want the moment you do it's like oh well i'm just gonna kick back and die now it's like yeah at that point it's it's i don't know well that and the medium is always changing you know by the time right oh yeah that's if we ever get to do a big budget film, which hopefully we're on track to do, it's going to be very different than what big budget films were back when we were watching them

when we hadn't made videos, when we wanted to make videos. Yeah, Nicolas Cage, he's going to be out of business. Going to be. Too bad. Which is a great segue into the Snapper Hero thing you guys are doing,

which kind of explain really quickly for people who might not know what what that is all right so snapper hero is a series that is exclusively for snapchat not snapchat the company but literally just we're putting it on snapchat um story-wise it's no differently than any other half hour long series you might watch in places but what's unique about it is that we are telling a story about a group of friends who discover they have superpowers through this this social medium and those snapchat and those friends are youtubers or vinyls or snapchatters exactly who

you know in those mediums exactly people who, you know, very natural on that platform. Now we got to take one step back though. And I mean, we almost have to level set about what is Snapchat. What is Snapchat? Because I mean, there's still, I mean,

when is the first time that you personally got on Snapchat? And was it when you signed on to direct snapper? It was about a year. For me, it was about a year ago and I had been using it and brandon was like hey snapchat and i'm like what's snapchat it's like it's this weird thing people send dirty pictures with i'm like all right so i get me that yeah so um we you know i'd been like messing around with it and it was like all right you know that's it's like your stuff disappears on it and i i didn't really get into it too much but um what ended up developing developing this disappears on it yeah you send things and everything expires it is a it is a video and then what are the limitations of the video well basically it's so it started i'm still not on it

okay here so it started out as just a messaging app where your messages disappeared. And then eventually text and photo or video. Everything's got an expiration timer on it. You can only see it for X amount of seconds. And you can set that. Yeah. And you can set that. And so what they ended up integrating after that was this thing called your story or the

my stories tab. So rather than just sending a video let's say from me to you i can just post a video under my name and anyone who's friends with me can watch it it still expires though but only after about 24 hours instead of a few seconds what's the length limit and then about 10 10 second long videos is the max but you can put as many 10 second long videos up you can chain them as long. You can put chain after chain after chain of 10-second long videos, but it's a 10-second long video maximum.

And do they live until a user accesses them and then they expire? No, that's what's different about the stories is because the stories are alive for 24 hours after posting. And you can watch them as many times as you want, unlike the direct versions. So, you know, it's like the same equivalent of,

imagine like Twitter, each time you make a tweet, it's there for 24 hours and then disappears. And it's just like that, except for these little video clips. So interpersonally, how do people use Snapchat? Like I was grilling Alex and Ben, who work with us on our team, because they use it and i'm like well yeah you hear the thing well people send dirty pictures yeah but i mean how

did you use it interpersonally it's basically and then nico when you when did you start using it well here basically it's it's it's it's like a slower more documentary version of vine vine is like very like heavily edited because you have very little time you know it's like quick little mini scripted story haha joke punchline the end snapchat is a little closer to um it's still in that it's in that vein but it's not it's not so like it's not so self-contained because you can just keep stacking these clips after clips after clips and you can make these as long as you want so that these stories and stuff you'll find on there are a little more about like immersion and seeing a location or seeing an experience but rather than just telling a joke but that's if you're an entertainer if you're following an

entertainer if you're just interpersonally wanting to Snapchat with somebody, you just want to see like, I don't know, an orifice or something? Well, there's a certain psychology about it. When your messages expire, like let's say you're texting. What's so funny? He said orifice. He said, oh, yeah. I didn't think of it. Wow.

I was like, why did you say OFS? What's that? An OFS, man. It's good for showing orifices it's also so the psychology aspect real quick I text you and I want to text you a dumb picture right

I have to go to it, I have to save it, I have to send it you get it and then it saves and it clutters up your phone you know it's like if I'm going to send you a picture and a text message it better be a freaking good picture you know but Snapchat is all about like you know and a text message, it better be a freaking good picture. But Snapchat is all about like, don't sweat it.

It can be a picture. Sorry, can I say? So it's just disposable. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, yeah, I'm just going to send you a casual picture, whatever, who cares. And then you're like, ah, that's mildly amusing, and I'm going to send you one back.

And then it just facilitates this kind of really relaxed communication with media. And it's over because then it's not like you're going through your text later, and you're like, I had this conversation with somebody. It's like, gah. Yeah. Like, who am I? Yeah, exactly.

It's more, like, that was boring or pointless, or I don't know, I'm not saying it was grotesque, it was just boring. Yeah, it wasn't an orifice. Do something better with your life. Or an OFS. So you're not, okay, I get that. So it's just, well, it's just gone.

It's like saying something and it's out there and then it goes away. Exactly. Unless it's extremely hurtful and then it stays in your psyche forever and it changes who you are and it's your self-worth. So how did you get involved in this project? Well, some people that have worked with us in the past knew the producer who was putting together the Snapchat thing.

And he was looking for somebody that could direct this really unique show. Progressive, really. Yeah. Experimental. Experimental is the best way to put it. We shot... I wouldn't call it progressive just yet because I don't know if it's really progressing anything. Because we've spent our entire careers

learning how to shoot like really cool wide screen shots with fancy lenses. And then we took this project and suddenly we were running around with our phones doing selfies, something which is usually... I'm very against doing usually demoralizing i'm like i'm like what am i doing with my life selfie yeah right right yeah it's i think we shot more minutes of vertical video like consecutively than anybody else in history and that was really to be proud of well you know um

well we well i'll go ahead and ask the question just because you're talking about the selfie thing. I just assumed everybody was shooting themselves until I watched the behind the scenes and I see Harley shooting himself, but he's actually just holding your hand, Nico. Yeah, he was holding your wrist. You were pointing the phone at him

and then he was holding your wrist and like. Exactly. Yeah. Anytime there's a tricky shot where we need specific angles and framing, usually our hand is there actually holding the okay so that wasn't they're hovering that wasn't the entire process no like harley knows how to shoot a selfie or just for harley yeah and this goes back to the whole cast thing you know making comforting when he holds my wrist but yeah making sure you know it's not just like we're not just working with actors we're working with people who are like who know this kind of platform in this kind of media because

it's like all right uh you're the cameraman harley and here's the phone and we're gonna step back and just go film the scene yeah and yeah it was really cool but what's the story and how did you incorporate audience feedback in real time into the actual story? Well, the audience feedback came first, actually, where the Snapper Hero community, like the whole team running that, kind of put together this whole thing of like, here's who our actors are going to be. Does anybody have any power suggestions? And go through who those are.

So that's Harley. That's Anna, who we talked to recently. Just Rain, Simone Shepard, and Sean Duras. And we got Freddie up in there, too. And Freddie Wong, yeah. There's a touch of Clinton Jones. And so they Snapchatted out, I'm doing this thing,

tell me what my superpower should be as a character, as myself in Snapper Hero. Yeah, or what should my costume be, et cetera. And so we worked with that. It was a mix. We had our own ideas with what we wanted for certain powers and certain things. But a lot of what the fans came back with

meshed perfectly with the story. And so we were able to kind of put it all together into this cohesive piece. But the psychology of it that you explained, it runs contrary to everything I feel as an artist. If I'm gonna put work and time and energy into something, I don't want it to be gone in 24 hours. The first part is gone before the next part comes out.

Yep. So it's interesting. How did you, did you grapple with that? Because a little bit, but you know, the thing is, when you're watching, let's say you're chilling on YouTube, right? Because it's your lunch break or whatever, and you pull up a video, you know, you're looking at your sub feed, and it's like, yeah, it could be a cool video. I'll watch it later.

And then you never watch it. It adds value. Yeah. To me, it makes me think I got to get in on this because it has a certain shelf life. Yeah. And I'll be honest. There's a imperative need to watch it. Like, it's not the series like

we have like recaps on each episode and it is designed i mean people aren't going to see every single clip in every single episode so the series isn't necessarily designed to be like oh you missed it too bad you're screwed you're this next episode is going to make no sense and you're going to hate it you know so it is designed to have people be able to pick it up. And we actually saw the numbers of the third episode we released were higher than the first one. So more people came in to watch that third episode than... And you designed it so that would work. Yeah, pretty much.

Hopefully. There's no comment section to read to see if it is working. Yeah, but there is... The biggest thing actually we can get, we can see like screenshots and how many people are like saving frames in the uh in the series to help give a reference of like what people are like so you don't even get a sense of how many people watched it we know we have numbers so you get you get that raw number yeah and when is it done when is this run the last one

comes out on april like seventh or so So this conversation, people listening to this right now in our future, they're present. It's already gone. They can't even watch it. We're talking about something that they've missed. Yeah. Well, I'm sure somebody put it on YouTube. Well, here's the thing.

We have ideas on how to fix that you know as video video guys you know by the time this has happened there might be another home for it but we'll see who knows but i mean the thing at the end of the day watching it on a phone is the way it was designed yeah you know right and even if it is on another platform you gotta watch and that was the weirdest thing you know shooting a project vertically on phones and everything and it's like you watch it on a computer screen you're like this sucks and then you watch it on your phone you're like oh my god i feel like i'm filming this like you feel it feels like footage that you've just shot or it's like it's actually happening it's amazing when you're holding it in your hand i mean you couldn't even

list on the front end of this project the things that you think you would learn. That's, that's what's so pioneering about it and what's so exciting about it. Yeah. How was, that's amazing. How was AT&T involved? Basically they, they, they funded the project. They were like, and I think it's kind of funny because I was like, man, you know, like all they're, all they're getting and all they're asking for is pretty much, you know, they, they want to have like, you know, the thanks to AT&T, you to have the thanks to AT&T because it's sponsored by them.

And I'm trying to think like what do companies get out of funding projects like this? Because I know what I'm getting out of this. I'm getting an amazing opportunity as a filmmaker. It's like this is obvious. I'm happy to do it. But yeah, it's like I can see why they want to do this stuff because you know it's like snapchat is a new platform you know it's on their devices etc and it's like this cool way for us to make content and them to like you know it's like people using like at&t services

etc etc so it wasn't necessarily i mean because at&t i guess is it's just a provider it wasn't necessarily, I mean, because AT&T, I guess, it's just a provider. It doesn't have its own phone, really. Well, they actually have kind of had this relationship with Samsung where there's like an AT&T version of the Galaxy Note 4, which you'll see a lot of the characters using in the piece. But not everybody. We don't show any other phones. Okay, you don't show any other phones. Gotcha. But all in all, though, I'm really happy with the way it worked because they were not involved with creative or anything like that.

We were just like, TV 14? Yeah, it's like TV 14, and we're like, we got it. The interesting thing about it, I'm still processing all this Snapchat, this Snapper Hero specifically. processing all this Snapchat, this Snapper Hero specifically, you think about the appointment viewing, it's giving a new generation the sensation of what television used to be like. Yes, exactly.

If you didn't make the appointment, if you weren't sitting on your couch, watching it when it came on, you missed it. Yep. Unless they decide to put it back on so it's this it's like this retro kind of yeah sensation of that adds value to it yeah i'm not sure how how effective it is still yet um but i i i haven't because i haven't seen like the positive aspects of that we won't we only hear the negative aspects like why are you putting on snapchat i i don't have snapchat i don't want to sign up for just to watch this dumb

show and it's like secretly they're like i wish i could see it right yeah you know isn't snapchat free yeah but you know not everybody has a smartphone okay yeah which i've had forgotten or maybe they're not allowed to i mean there's so many things there's so many things you know but at the end of the day it kind of shows you like you know also why i guess we have chosen youtube it's so ubiquitous and like it's such that's why it's been the best place for us to post most of our you know content it's just because everyone can watch videos on youtube right well as doing this project led you to think uh we as a brand, Corduroy Digital, need to get in on this Snapchat game more directly or is it just this is a cool project,

maybe we'll do something else like this? Yep. I think it's mostly the latter. Actually, for me it was more a revelation that we should get on the Instagram game. What does that have to do with it? I don't know. Well, because the thing is like, you know,

it's this ease of communication. It's this like posting of small, minor pictures and videos. Like when we make a quarter digital video, like we craft the heck out of that video. Like, you know, that's a ton of work goes in that video. So what about those little simple videos and those dumb little pictures and those little funny moments that we have? Like where do those go? And sometimes they go on our Sam and Nico channel, but they're not always right for that.

Yeah, we were just talking about that the other day. I was like, oh, this would be a funny video idea. I'm like, I think that's a better Instagram video. What's the dynamic between the two of you? How often do you argue? Like, how do you... It depends on how much preparation we've done beforehand when we shoot. Like, if we're winging it, we'll argue

a fair amount. What does that look like? Kind of like siblings arguing. It's like, this is a good shot, and then someone's like, no, this is a better shot, and I'm like, I'm not moving on until I get my shot. It's like, no, we don't have time to get your shot. Are the voices raising?

Yeah, imagine this like sometimes three or four times louder are you grabbing each other no there's no number one rule I have one rule and it's under no circumstances is anyone allowed to touch me while on set

period in life in all seriousness no there's no physical altercation is that a running joke or is that true i just say that because it freaks them out and then i get a laugh a little bit comfortable laugh hold on i think i've already touched you i'm sorry it means that i need to get sam's attention i'll put my hand on his shoulder and he goes what is my number one rule um but you know it's when we when we argue it's it's a very like film centric argument like you need to consider

this character's beat in this next scene we need to have this and you're not getting this shot but I'm getting this shot for this reason so you're not caring enough about the film

so the arguments are very like moment centric and we'll figure it out and then it's done it's like they're not personal arguments they're like

very quick heated like we gotta figure this out because we don't have a lot of time and like we figure it out we get it and we move on figure this out because we don't have a lot of time. And like we figure it out, we get it, and we move on. And that's when we haven't prepared. When we have prepared,

we've gone over the shots together, there's zero arguments on set. Right, but when you have those, is it the people standing around like slowly backing away? No, no. Like sometimes Ren and I will argue and I'll notice, like I'll glance over his shoulder when I'm like just like shaking with anger and I'll realize

that there's people who are quaking. It's like, or just like. I think when we've, this is awkward. Yeah. And we're younger

and less experienced. You get that vibe every once in a while, but it's, yeah. We've learned to notice it because at the end of the day, like all these arguments

are for the sake of the piece. Yeah. And if the argument is making the crew or the actors lose their focus, then you're starting to hurt the piece yeah and in the past we sometimes we get you know maybe a little too carried away or lose that focus but at this point we're much more on top of that now yeah it's okay to have

an argument it's okay to be passionate about what you're doing that's the thing actually we haven't stopped arguing any more or less it's the same as about you know a few years ago but uh the only difference now is that it's much quieter and no one knows when it's happening it's the same as about you know a few years ago but uh the only difference now is that it's much quieter and no one knows when it's happening it's like hey nico i hear some idea and i'm like you better get that dang shot right now or i'm not leaving the set and then he's like no you shut up and then we go back out there like all right guys it's not it's not quite that dark but that's you know i mean that's the thing it's like when you when you when you disagree you don't want to be like what are you

doing like i'm disagreeing it's like everyone's like wait who's if there's two directors here and they can't agree then yeah who am i supposed to listen to like yeah oh no it's like that's the last thing you want to have happen is just spread that confusion out there so like we have to contain it between ourselves is there a division of labor, maybe not on set, but over the course of Corridor Digital? Like how do you guys divide and conquer?

Well, I think real quick before we move on before we divide and conquer, we should tell you about our wild cards. Tell us about the wild cards. We still don't have them printed. I'm going to go print them.

I'm going to print them. Right now we just have the hand signal where it's like Yu-Gi-Oh style. So when you see this on set, that means it's a wild card. So you look like the Boy Scout symbol? Imagine you're holding an ace between your fingers. Right.

You point it in your middle finger. Okay. So when we're in an argument, and we each have one wild card per shoot, I think. Per day of shooting. Per day of shooting. When you're in an argument, if you want to settle that argument immediately, you whip out your wild card.

I'm playing my wild card. And the person's going, like, oh! And they fall backwards. This is genius. They have to raise their hands and back away. And like, oh,

it's like out. There is one more rule to the wild cards. You can cancel a wild card with your wild card. You've used it. That's it. Hey, hey, guys. We're taking this. You've used it. That's it. Hey, hey, hey, guys.

We're taking this idea. Go for it. But hold on. When you cancel the other wild card, then how do you decide? Then you're still back in the argument and no one can ever make an executive decision after that point.

And how often does that happen? We have never canceled out a wild card. Well, hold on. I think the way it works is if you play your wild card, Nico, and then Sam plays it back, Sam wins. That's it. Because you made the decision to break it out

first so you run the risk of either getting your way or he can override it. That's the way to work. It's like the prisoner's dilemma thing a little bit. That seems to make perfect sense to me. By whipping out your wild card, you might risk losing it and not getting your way. Right. Whoa.

No, that's too deep. That's good, though. It's perfect. It's just deep enough. But the wild card, I mean, it has a certain element of respect. It's interesting that you've never double wild carded, though. I will say that. So you're pointing out a problem that's not a problem for them yet. Well, if me and you both have wild cards, it'll be a problem.

We'll print our run of them and we'll send you both have wild cards, it'll be a problem. We'll print our run of them and we'll send you guys two wild cards. You gotta call it something else. You'll be surprised when that wild card comes out, people gasp. Even though you can't see it, even though it's an invisible card. Yeah, and usually one person goes oh and runs off set.

Yeah. The funny thing is, if things get that heated for us like i would i'm like you know we'll get so heated in something like the motion of pulling out a fake card is a total departure from the tone of the moment exactly that's what i like about it it's like it's a breaking character you have to do it it very anime style. Now I am a mime. I was really angry a second ago, but now I'm a French mime. But I think one of the reasons that the wild card

wouldn't always work for us is a lot of times, it's not just about two opposing opinions. It's like the way that something was said. It is personal. It gets personal. And then wild cards don't help when it gets personal. Right. And Link makes it personal more than I do.

I'll own that. But there is. So you need like a, you need to hold up like a loofah. That needs to be. Oh wow, wow. Well, if it gets personal. Why don't I hold up scissors and cut your balls off? Right, there we go. Or you can get the wild up scissors and cut your balls off? There we go.

Or you can get the wild cards. Yeah, I do like the wild card idea. I mean. What I'm going to do is I think we're going to make a run of wild cards and we're going to send them to every duo YouTube channel out there. I think that's a good idea. So. I would just. I'd like to caucus on what you call them because it's just wild card out exists.

It's got to be something like the decision maker. But the wild card is like, who knows what it could be? Yeah, that'scard.exist it's got to be something like the decision maker but the wildcard is like who knows what it could be yeah that's true who knows what's going to happen next but you do know it's going to be his way

but no one but what if I what is my way what if I whipped out the wildcard and I haven't even said what I'm about to do with it and it's like

anything could happen and we have to do it yeah yeah yeah okay I'm not who are we to change what's working fabulously? But I do want to- Pizza for lunch. Anything.

Yeah, it's true, actually. Do we give Jacob a wild card? Does the producer get a wild card? No. Yeah? No, I'm with Red on this. I think only the two directors get wild cards. Yeah, right.

It gets too complicated. You get three, because then how do you do it? The three thing doesn't work. You have to just go with two. Now, okay, but speaking of just you guys being a duo, I think a decision, whether it's an explicitly made decision or if it's just implicit in your relationship

and your career, are you guys committed to be a creative duo indefinitely or is it just like, ah, you know what, I think we've got our solo things that we wanna do and. I think it's not like i've talked said nico it'd mean a lot to me if we made movies forever yeah we've never had that conversation yeah i mean i mean it's just uh we we take different roles on different projects sometimes i'm like hey i'm gonna make a video and i go direct it nico helps me shoot it and general or vice versa so it's like there's a little back and forth there's some things we collaborate on and some things that some of us take the lead on

but yeah yeah i think when it comes to you know a creative duo you're working with the other person because a you like their style b you kind of just creatively work on the same wavelength and c usually they're very talented so for me to not with Sam, it had to be a very specific type of project where either Sam's off doing something else and I just don't have the time or the resources to bring him on board. Or it'd be such a creative departure that he wouldn't be able to help me with it, which would mean we do, you know, we do action, we do sci-fi, we do comedy, we like everything we do is something that Sam is good at and generally vice versa for me. So it had to be a huge departure and that's fine. Like if you want to go off and explore something creatively, like go for it. But other than that, if there's somebody out there who I'd want to have them help me on the project, it'd be Sam, you know? So that's just how I work.

So it just, it's sort of uh it's just kind of intrinsic to the the way you guys work yeah i mean it takes a long time to learn to work with somebody well creatively and really develop certain types of skills and with our filmmaking on youtube we're going for this very cinematic look but without the budget that cinema stuff usually has so that requires having a team of people who are very uniquely trained i guess into doing that and so sam is very uniquely trained into doing that as am i so i can't just go out and find somebody else who can do that you know that sam's the closest i've you know the closest one to that i've found and we've worked together and we've grown the skills together so you know it's a very much like on top of

everything else it's also a matter of practicality. Like for me to go out and shoot a project without Sam would require a much larger budget because I'm getting, you know, four people, five people to fill the role that Sam fills in a set because he does the job of like four to five people. And yeah, like I said, it also needs to be a departure from the stuff that we'd usually do because otherwise I would just naturally work with them. Yeah, I mean, I like to think of it as like a, you know, I've got an analogy for this. Like you're rolling a big ball on a flat surface that is slowly gathering momentum and gathering mass and it's like, you know, it gains its own momentum

as you work longer and longer together but it also becomes harder to manage and to keep pushing. You get to this point where you're like, we couldn't do this, neither of us could do this alone. You're so committed to this thing moving forward that it's just not really in the conversation to not keep moving it forward together.

That's pretty much it. It's kind of like, well, I don't know, I guess I'll just go make some art films alone. That's the only other option right now. Well, pushing the ball, that's, okay, I'll reflect on that. But you know, as... That's a good analogy. But you guys are pretty good teachers.

You know, there's lots to think about here, the wild card being chief among them. But, you know, I have to say, as we close down here, I learned something the first time I talked to you guys and that is you spoke English. When I first saw your videos, I don't know what video it was, I thought that you guys were like French or something.

It must have been one of those ones, like graphic violence or something like that. Where there's no talking. Where there's no dialogue. No talking and it was like, I think these guys are like French or something. It must have been one of those, like, graphic violence or something like that. Where there's no, like, talking. Where there's no dialogue. No talking, and it was like, I think these guys are like... Some guys from, like, Eastern Europe and, like, Romania. You could, like, the Freddie and Brandon of, like, Germany or Scandinavia. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It doesn't help that, like, for a year, YouTube would default turn on Chinese subtitles on all our videos. Like, any time I'd just go to a computer that, like, was just a computer i'd never touched before and like go to our channel like freaking chinese subtitles yeah it's like you couldn't change like what it was by default and we'd have fans like crowdsource subtitles for us and it'd be like for some reason it always picks some random one it's like why can't it just default to like nothing but it might be the first person to say oh you know that's english that's really funny no but it But am I the first person to say, oh, you guys speak English? No, that's really funny.

You're the first person I've heard say that. You've heard somebody else say that? No, I haven't. But what I'm saying, it makes total sense. That makes so much sense, though. Wow, they speak English. Wow. Yeah.

I think the first time I met you guys, I was just wowed by the fact that you're both very tall. In fact, both you guys and the Big Mealtime crew are very tall people. Yeah, yeah. What's up with that? Yeah, they're tall and big. They could crush you.

Well, they eat a lot of meat. Well, listen, guys, why don't you sign the table? We appreciate the time. This is very cool. There it was, an Ear Biscuit with Corridor Digital. Of course. Wild card. Yeah, let's talk about that.

Well, first I want to ask you guys to give them feedback. What did you think about our conversation? Use hashtag Ear Biscuits and tweet at them. That's at Corridor Digital to talk to Sam and Niko. Let them know what you thought, guys. You can also let us know what you thought about this Ear Biscuit on iTunes by leaving a review and a rating, we appreciate that, it goes a long way. You can also join in on the conversation on SoundCloud.

So they said that they are going to literally print off these cards and when they do, they said we'll get a copy. Yeah. And I'm pretty excited about it. Because our technique thus far has been to just, we don't make a scene out of arguing with each other on set but sometimes it will get into a protracted conversation

that has to go into a corner. And the voices raised and the facial expressions get really intense. It's just a creative process, people. When you've got two strong opinions that both may be right, but only one can be right. And mine can be more right. And that's just what happens.

But this wild card concept, I think they should just write a book about that. Really? Yeah. They could print it on the card if it was a shorter enough book. They could just make a book about that. Really? Yeah. They could print it on the card if it was a short enough book. They could just make it a brochure. Yeah, just put instructions on the card. A non-foldable pamphlet.

Why sell a book when you can just sell the card that took a use? And it could be on one of those rotating things that postcards are on it like, you know, travel shops, souvenir shops, the wild card. Now we should get money for that though. We just came up with that. If they do that, we get 20%.

You guys listening? You hear that? I just want the card and I wanna use it. I think I will. Well, and you can use it once on a shoot or once on a shootout every day. I can't remember. I think you get it for the day.

You get it for the day. Every day? Every day. I just, I always enjoy talking to another- I would use mine for lunch. Didn't we, isn't that what we said? We were just, I would just, I get to decide. When, oh, where to go to eat lunch?

Where we go for lunch, yeah. I would end up blowing it on that every day. I just like talking to another creative duo because it's so interesting to see how, you know, the mechanics of it, because it's the key to what we've created, obviously, the fact that there's two of us and that we bring things to the table

and we bat ideas around and everybody's personality is different. It's interesting the way that they talked about it and they were, they kind of, you got the impression that, oh, these guys don't argue a whole lot. I don't think these guys argue as much as we do. And then all of a sudden they bring out the wild card.

And that was a wild card for me, because I was like, well, maybe that's what we need, Link. We need a wild card. But I think it should be a flag. Well, I don't think it should be called wild because it's pretty predictable. I mean, once you know what it does. You think it should be a hand signal?

What if it's just the bird? Well, that's kind of rude, right? All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with us. Next time I flip you the bird. Well, that's kind of rude, right? All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with us. Next time I flip you the bird on set, it means I get my way. That's not gonna work well. I'd be playing the car right now just asking you to move on.

So, you know, you can count on us. We'll be here next week coming into your ear holes.