Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 83 Laci Green - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: August 21, 2015

One of the most notable sex education and feminist activists on YouTube, Laci Green, joins Rhett & Link this week to talk about her experience growing up in a strict Mormon household, the motivation behind her successful MTV web series “Braless,” and why she wound up playing such a major role in exposing the horrible truth behind the Sam Pepper scandal at the close of 2014. *NOTE: This conversation contains adult themes and language To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Just a quick warning before we get started, due to the nature of this week's guests' content, this week's Ear Biscuit is going to contain some sexually explicit conversation. So if you don't think you should be listening to specifically sexually explicit conversation, you can skip this Ear Biscuit and join us next week.

You've been warned. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. Joining us today, once again from VidCon, where we recorded a handful of Ear Biscuits, is one of the most notable internet personalities with a focus on sex education on YouTube, Lacey Green. In case you aren't familiar with Lacey,

she describes herself as a sex education activist and her YouTube channel is home to her very frank video series about sex called Sex Plus, the number one sex education show on YouTube. The channel currently has 1.3 million subscribers and has racked up over 113 million video views. Now Lacey offers advice and support that covers a wide variety of topics.

Here's a few of the titles of her videos just to give you an idea of what she covers. 10 Secret Vagina Facts. Uh-oh. Feminism in Horror Films. A is for abstinence. Shaving pubes. Wow.

And transgender adventure. No matter what you're looking for in sex education, I think the point is, chances are Lacey has at least one video for you. And she has a great answer for why she titles the videos the way that she does, but we certainly got into a lot more than just titles of the videos.

We talked to Lacey about her background, which includes growing up in a strict Mormon household and why she decided to leave the Mormon religion, why she became interested in sex education and feminist activism in the first place and what led her to create her YouTube channel Sex Plus and also her MTV web series Brawless that she's been hosting for going on three seasons now.

And also towards the end of the podcast, we talked in depth about the entire Sam Pepper incident. She was very centrally involved in that. She recounts the story from the beginning and helps us hone in an important message for all of us in the YouTube community. So make sure that you stick around to listen to that. We really had a great time talking with Lacey,

getting to know her and her story. And we know that you'll enjoy this biscuit too. But first we want to remind you to check out our animated song biscuits on our YouTube channel, Good Mythical Morning. You guys know song biscuits. We wrote songs with Ear Biscuit guests with input from Twitter,

and then we released those on Saturdays. Well, now we've animated our favorite ones on GMM, so make sure you look for that. Yeah, on Saturdays on the Good Mythical Morning channel. Now, onto the biscuit. So you've got an interesting water bottle here that you brought. We provide little waters, but you brought your own thing

because you didn't know if we were gonna do that for you. I wasn't sure, I was like, maybe they're gonna skimp on the water out here. You know, make up. You know Rhett and Link. See, it has a built-in cup. It does, it's also, you know, I'm all about the environmentalism. Can you describe it like it's a vagina?

Oh. We're just gonna go there right away, not even just ease into it, we're just gonna go all the way? I assumed I didn't even have to say that. If you were like, well, I'm gonna tell you about my water bottle, but I'm gonna do it in terms of a vagina. There's a lot of parts missing on this water bottle. I mean, there's a whole. Yeah, that's gonna be a tough analogy. That's about the extent, I think, of a vagina. There's a lot of parts missing on this water bottle.

I mean, there's a whole. That's gonna be a tough analogy. That's about the extent, I think, of the vagina analogy. It is a weird water bottle. I mean, it's got a cup on top. It's not that weird. I mean.

Is there a valve? Do you see this? There's no valve. Like right in there. No, no, it just pours out. In the vulva? It works with gravity. There's no vulva. There's no vulva. No, no, it just pours out. In the vulva? It works with gravity. There's no vulva.

Well. There's no vulva. No clitoris either. It's just straight to the point. I gotta say, I was expecting Lacey to kind of take the conversation there naturally. Oh. But, I mean, you can feel free to just start there.

Well, because, you know, honestly, one of the questions that we did have for you is, you know, we're at VidCon. Yes. And this is like the pinnacle of fan interaction, right? This is when it gets real, real. It is so real out there right now.

So when you, you said that, like, this is the middle of a zombie apocalypse. That's what it feels like a little bit. And we've taken refuge right now. It is so real out there. You said it, man.

But during this time, do you find yourself, like how often do people come up and do what Link just did? Like immediately ask a question. Can you describe your water bottle as if it's a vagina? I can't say I've gotten that one before. More specifically, just coming up and being like, I really need some sex advice right now, right here. Yeah, it happens.

Oh, it does? Yeah, it happens, but I think it happens less than people might. But when it did happen, what happened? People, I think they just kind of hold on to their questions and then they pull me aside really secretly. Hey, can I ask you a quick question? Or hey, I love your work. Can I just ask you a really quick question?

It's never a quick question. It's never a quick question like you've been asked a question here at vidcon um yes what i have i feel like i'm betraying someone okay okay it's anonymous right yeah just about like period stuff sex stuff if the condom was on right i'm worried that it broke do you think i should take plan b you know just kind of like teenagers who are worried about doing sex right. And there's a lot of concern about a lot of the urgent questions I get are worried that like, oh my God, do I have an STD or am I like putting myself at risk for pregnancy, even if they're the safest ever? Like sometimes people describe the safest sex in the world that you can have as safe as it can be. Right. And they're the safest ever? Like sometimes people describe the safest sex in the world that you can

have as safe as it can be, right? And they're still scared. And so they have these questions. And this is the type of email that I get the most too. So when people are talking to me in person and on email and on Twitter, they're urgent, like, please answer right now. I already know what it's about. It's the sex fear stuff. Right, and so when you get those questions in an environment like VidCon, or just on the street, wherever, is there a, okay, I'm gonna take this time, because I can't imagine this obligation.

We just get asked to be funny, and then do a little bit something funny, and then we move on, right? Or just a picture. Yeah. Which, that's easy compared to what you are being asked to do no one has ever asked us about a broken condom right really we know we know if your guys condoms don't work there's enough children but we told some condoms in our merch store but maybe you should i mean there's an enterprise there no thank you do you have like

a go-to thing which is like okay i going to give you a short and sweet answer. I'm going to be sympathetic and try to, or I'm just going to be like, listen, you know, I do this, yes, for a living, but I'm not a doctor. And if you really have a question about this, like, what do you do? It's just like talking to a friend, right? So you're like, here's what I know about what you told me. Here's the best advice that I can give you. I'm obviously not a doctor. If you're really worried about something, please go see a doctor. You know, and a lot of time,

people are just looking for a little bit of like, someone knows my, you know, my struggle, my secret, my fear, my worry right now. So I can be that person for them, right? I can be like, hey, it's okay. Like, this is a common thing. A lot of people deal with this. Here's probably, you know, based on what you're saying to me, here's probably what's going on. You probably don't have anything to worry about, but if you are worried, go get tested or go to the doctor. But you also can't reply to every email.

Once you start talking about the emails that you get. No, I cannot do that. There's too many emails. Man, I mean, that seems like a weighty reality to know that people are emailing you in desperation, but it's not even feasible for you to reply to all these people. Yeah. Even if you hired a team. Yeah, that's true.

I do have a lot of anxiety about the amount of email that I get and the seriousness of some of the questions. There's some really serious stuff that people come to me with. And I cannot, you're right. Like I cannot handle all of that myself. And I've just had to make a disclaimer, you know, on my website, if this is an emergency, I can't be 911. You know, I just can't. I'm one human being. And this is a lot of stuff across, you know, a huge spectrum of topics too, that I'm not always an expert in, know right yeah I mean I would say that

every once in a while like we'll see like a question or somebody will tweet me like you know this person it sounds like to be something like this person really wants to harm themselves can you guys and if that happens once every four months for us, I can imagine that happens once every four hours for you. Yeah, it happens a lot more because I think people feel like they can't talk to me about it. Yeah. So they do. Yeah. Yeah. When you're so, I mean, how would you describe, you know, your tone blatantly honest in your face, just how do you describe it? Yeah, I think those are good words to describe what I do. I think it's really frank and also very friendly. You know, I'm a friend. That's the way that I think of my relationship with the

people that watch my videos is I'm not your doctor. I'm not your teacher. I'm not your lawyer. I'm not this. I'm your friend. I happen to have a little bit more knowledge about some of these areas, so I can probably help you out. But then the day I'm just a friend and I'm just a person, you know, who happens to be interested in these topics. And I do my homework and stuff. So I try to help people out because I'm pretty good at research. And, you know, I have a lot of research training in my education. So I think that I can bring that skill set to people and make information more accessible. So I think those are the types of, you know, the way that people digest my content and the way that I see it. And you found yourself being the modern day Dr. Ruth of the Internet.

Is that a title that you'll own? Dr. Ruth is like such a character. I don't know if I can compare myself to her. She's a hoot. She's still living, right? Yes. But have you like, what came first? Were you already doing this

and then you found out about Dr. Ruth? Or did you know about Dr. Ruth like growing up? I knew about Dr. Ruth. Oh, come on. Who doesn't know about Dr. Ruth? Well, I don't know, we're old. You didn't know about Dr. Ruth? No, we did, but we think sometimes we don't know. Oh, I on. Who doesn't know about Dr. Ruth? Well, I don't know, we're old. You didn't know about Dr. Ruth? No, we did, but we think sometimes we don't know.

Oh, I got you. For the past 15 years, maybe she's fallen out of vogue. Yeah, I think people know who Dr. Ruth is. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Put that down in relevant cultural references. Do you own the title? Of like a modern day Dr. Ruth?

Yeah, I don't mean like own the domain name. I just mean like, are you comfortable? You should have.biz.net.com. Modern day Dr. Ruth or the internet.biz. Not a bad idea. No, I don't really own that as my title, I guess. A lot of people use that to describe me, but I guess I just see it as a little bit different

when I do what she does. I don't know. Well, you don't have the accent. I don't have the accent. And she's a little bit different what I do. How? What she does. I don't know. Well, you don't have the accent. I don't have the accent. And she's a little bit more harsh, I want to say. She's kind of got like a... She's crotchety, which seems like a weird pun. Really?

Yeah. It's a perfect pun, though. It's a perfect one. Yeah, she's a little bit more like take no... You know, she doesn't want to mess around or deal with your feelings. I'm more okay with talking about feelings and like how are you doing, like the emotional side of things.

Your style is different, but that's why you're the modern day internet version of her. Right, so you're saying I'm like the 2.0. Yes, Dr. Ruth 2.0. All right, okay, I'll take it, I'll take it. You are now taking that. I'm taking it. Dot biz. I'm. Dr. Ruth 2.0. All right, okay, I'll take it. I'll take it. You are now taking that. I'm taking it.

Dot biz. I'm owning it. Domains and all. But it definitely, you know, so you have been described that way by like, it seems like the kind of thing that like, if like a traditional news outlet is trying to explain who you are, that would be like the go-to.

We think like traditional news outlet people is what we're trying to say. What does MTV call you? She's the Dr. Ruth, the modern day Dr. Ruth. Except for I'm not a doctor either. Like that's also a big word, right? What does MTV call you? That's a good question.

They don't really, they call me Lacey. Is sexpert a word? Sexpert is a word. People use that word to describe me too. I feel very uncomfortable with any of the really authoritative titles, right doctor expert um all these things i'm not a doctor like that's a formal designation right but even expert is thrown around a little bit more especially in the internet age like who's an expert what makes you an expert and people have referred to me as

an expert but sexpert is just so wait it's just's perfect. It's just like, okay, don't take me too seriously. I'm not really an expert. I'm a sexpert. Right. It's got like a little bit of a sexual, obviously I mean sexist, but it's like sexualized a little bit. It's like, yeah, like I'm a sexpert. Okay. Got it.

Right. At least that's how I've heard people use it. And when people use it to describe me, I feel like there's a little bit of that. Okay. I got it. I'm okay with it though. Which is it, we wanna get into that too. Okay.

But I think we should save it because we wanna get into the, some of the do's and don'ts for things people, terminology people should avoid in your opinion. But let's get back to the origin of all of this, the origin of Lacey and how you got to this place where you are this person that speaks to so many people about these subjects in a powerful way.

So let's go back to the very beginning. Where are you from? Where am I from? Well, I grew up in Portland, Oregon, and then came over to Sacramento, and now in the Bay Area. So I've had a little bit of that. So you've stayed on the West Coast? Yeah, I'm a West Coast girl, for sure.

And your parents are like an interesting combo of awesomeness. Yeah. Tell us about that. My parents are really awesome. I didn't always feel that way. And I'm pretty open about that online, which creates a little bit of awkwardness between us, right?

Because it's a little real. But yeah, they are Mormon, and I grew up Mormon. So that has played a really big role in getting me to where I'm at. And your dad is Iranian. He is, yeah, he's from Iran. And your mom is like what you would picture a Mormon to be, like a white lady. She's a white lady. Your mom is a white lady.

And even my dad, he's pretty white for an Iranian, too. They have like olive-y skin. My dad does a little bit, but he's pretty white-looking as well, which is why people don't usually pick up that half of my family is from Iran. And how did they meet? They met in college. They both went to BYU, which was at that time called Rick's College, and it was just a junior college, and then they turned it into a big, giant university. Right.

Yeah. So they were both Mormon even before they met. So they met through the Mormon church and the Mormon college. Yes. Yes. Got it. They both ended up there somehow. Okay.

And being from a Mormon family, do you have lots of brothers and sisters? Not as many as a lot of Mormon families. I think my parents were like, whoa, raising kids is really hard. I think we're done. So I have two siblings, just a younger brother and a younger sister. Okay. So you're the oldest. Yes. I'm the oldest. And okay. So what was growing up like? I mean, what was your house like and what were you into? It was chill. I feel like I had a good, you know, upbringing. But when I was a teenager, a lot of things started to change for me in my political awakening. So, you know, I am really close to my family. We're really tight and are to this day. We kind of have like that, you know,

we're blood, we stick together mentality. But there are some kind of real cracks in that, right? Because of our political differences. So did you, your political awakening, how did that happen? Is that like, because you met like hikers in Utah? Cause that's how it works, right? There's like Mormons in Utah and then there's like rock climbers. Right, that's true. Who like, have different ideas about the world.

Yeah. And religion and rocks. Yeah, that's true. But my awakening was not in Utah, it was in Sacramento. Ah, okay. Because I was a teenager in Sacramento. I was starting to, which is a little bit different than Utah in a lot of ways, actually. No hikers in Sacramento.

There are some, but that's a different story. Yeah, no, it's a much more liberal place, but still pretty conservative by California standards, right? So I just kind of felt like at odds with a lot of the ideas that I was being fed and just sort of felt really critical of a lot of the religious stuff that I had been brought up to believe was the truth about the world. So do you remember like thinking, you know, I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people from a religious background probably go through this where they're just sort of like, I don't know if I buy this. Sometimes it's, sometimes it's you hear a different perspective. Sometimes it's just, it kind of just hits you. Do you remember like a seminal event? Yes. There was a seminal event when I was in the church. They separate you out by gender. So all the women go to certain classes and all the young men go to certain classes. And the classes I was taking were like about raising a family, getting prepared to have kids, cooking, sewing.

The community was all around very traditional gender roles. And I was kind of like I've always been a massive nerd, and I wanted to be a doctor. I was so set on it. By the time when I was like nine years old, I was like, I want to be a gynecologist. I was all about it. Like I was ready to do the vagina thing.

And then the Mormon church sort of, you know, made my dreams come crashing down. So as a nine-year-old, you wanted to be a gynecologist. Yes. How did... You have the funniest look on your face right now. How is that possible? What? I mean, had you been to a gynecologist?

Oh, no, but I knew there are baby doctors. Oh. You know, I wanted to be... I didn't say, Mom, I want to to a gynecologist? Oh, no, but I knew there are baby doctors. I wanted to be. I didn't say, Mom, I want to be a gynecologist. It was more like, I want to be the one that delivers the babies and make sure that girls and women are healthy, right? Interested in women's health stuff. So my parents bought me a bunch of books about it. They totally encouraged me to learn about it.

And that was something I was completely immersed in, but it's not something that's encouraged in the church so much. That was not my experience. They don't want you to go to med school and stuff. They want you to be a mom. And I was not okay with that. Right. And so what'd you do? I left. I was like, peace out. I'm done. But there's a, we, you. But there's always more of a process than that, right? Yeah, but that was the catalyst. Was it a, this isn't right. I'm not cool with this. Let me talk to my parents about it.

How did that doubt begin to express itself? Yeah, I started feeling really alienated going to church. So I tried to stop going. And that's where the conversation started to come up, right? Like, why don't you want to go arguing with my parents about it as a teenager, and expressing feelings of basically what I was picking up on was a lot of sexism in the church. And I didn't have the words for it at that time. And my parents didn't really either. So it was like a lot of fighting and clashing over figuring out why I was no longer willing. And I slowly just moved away from it

and tried to find a new community and that's a big part of how I found YouTube was leaving the church because when you're in the Mormon church, your entire life revolves around it and everyone you know. So if you decide this feels really bad inside for me, which I did, where do you go? Who do you talk to?

Who's your community now? Especially at what age? I mean. 15, 14, where am I? Yeah, that's a tough, I mean, there's so much change taking place personally. There is. It's a tough time. Without any sort of upheaval otherwise.

I mean, there is a. You don't even have a license at this point. You can't even like literally drive away. Oh, yeah. It's like the worst feeling ever. When you're a teenager, you have no control. You know, you just want so much control. There's like this big battle with parents.

And it was very much the case for me, plus all the political stuff on top, you know. So it seems like it was an issue with the values, right? You know, even in your Draw My Life video, when you have the Mormon church up on the whiteboard, you write sexist, racist, homophobic around that. You don't say that, but you write it. Yes. That's how I feel about it. Was that a,

was it mostly that, the sort of the value issue that like, I don't agree with these values. Was there any of the like, which often happens, like an intellectual, like I also don't agree with these values. Was there any of the like, which often happens, like an intellectual, like, I also don't believe what they believe this stuff about X, Y, and Z, that I'm going to have a planet or whatever. I know there's lots of mischaracterization about that, but there's a lot of weird stuff that's real. So was that any part of it too? Yeah. I

think that came later for me because I started to doubt all the gender role stuff. And then I started thinking more critically about what I was being told and opening my mind about the world and that came later for me because I started to doubt all the gender role stuff. And then I started thinking more critically about what I was being told and opening my mind about the world and maybe what trying to seek truth, right? Trying to figure out my own truth, figure out who I am, what I believe. And when I started looking more into it, yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff and it doesn't make sense. And also I was really into science. so it was like, this does not fit with the scientific view of the world. And that was a big conflict too, like religion or science, which,

and I was very, you know, already heading away from religion. So science just kind of nailed the, you know, the hammer and the, the nail in the coffin for me. And did you- Yeah, you don't wanna bury the hammer. You gotta use the hammer. Don't bury that, you need that. To seal the coffin. Or to get out if you accidentally get buried alive.

Right. Only bury the hammer if you're also being buried. Right. So did you, at that time, did, what was the relationship with your parents? And also, how much younger were your brother and sister? At what point? Like, during this, like, 14, 15, 16 questioning. Yeah, it wasn't a good, at that point,

my relationship with my parents was not great. You know, that was where I think a lot of our conflicts began because we were fighting a lot about our values, our beliefs about the church, about God, whether or not God exists. And I became very staunchly atheist when I was about 16 or 17 and like really got into that whole thing. You know, there's a big atheist community online. That was a part of my coming of age. I don't really identify with that anymore,

but it helped me have like a place that I could feel like, oh, this is where I belong, right? A better place for me. So without a license, your way to get away and to establish your own sense of self apart from the church and your immediate family was the internet. Yes, and YouTube specifically. And atheist community online. And also YouTube.

Yes. How did YouTube fit into that? YouTube was where a lot of people were making videos And also YouTube. Yes. Okay. Yes. How did YouTube fit into that? YouTube was where a lot of people were making videos about their religious flight. People were talking about being alienated by their beliefs or their parents' beliefs. There was a lot of teenagers and stuff on there, older people as well. Did you start making the videos then too? Yes.

So you followed suit. You said, I can make one of those too. I'm not gonna be a consumer i'm gonna be a contributor right yeah and i actually didn't start making videos about the religion stuff i started making videos about homophobia that was my that was my but homophobia in the church so i was talking about i was talking about a lot of issues that i talk about today as i experienced them in the church. And that's kind of where I jumped onto the YouTube bandwagon. And so that process, okay, so when did you start YouTube? How old were you at the time? I was 18, 17 or 18. Okay.

Yeah. And then, so you're starting and then you go off to college. Yes. I actually went off to college when I was 15. Oh. Yeah, I graduated really early. But I did the community college thing, so I actually went off to college when I was 15. Oh. Yeah. I graduated really early, but I did the community college thing. So I still lived at home, but yeah, I was already in college at that point. Okay. So around that time. Yeah. So yeah,

because let's talk about, tell us about how the, you know, obviously already said that at age nine, you were like, I want to be a gynecologist. But when the sex education thing became you know became an interest and also began to incorporate itself into your content yeah i think when i started becoming sexually active was when that came on my mind which was about you know 18 17 18 um sex is a big part of your life as a teenager you're having all these new feelings and these experiences and i felt very ill-equipped to handle it all. And so it became an interest of mine. You know, I just kind of learned everything that I could, absorbed everything that I could

about sexuality and gender and all these issues that were affecting me. And I thought, hey, there are probably other people out there who don't, who feel the same way as I do, right? They don't have the answers. They don't have anyone to talk to. Let's start a community here. And that's when I sort of shifted gears. And I was doing a lot of sex ed stuff on my college campus

when I went to Berkeley around that time. So it all kind of fit together for me. Right. So you made a YouTube video called How to Make Fluffy Chocolate Chip Muffins! Yeah, that was a great application. Oh my God, the digging skills. Well, it's online.

Yeah, I know, I forgot about that. In fairness, the first video that at least is still public, I don't know how many you've privated earlier. Yeah, a lot, a lot of videos. It's about birth control, the NuvaRing review. You're reviewing that. Yes, yes and and then you

had an update going off of the nuva ring a little bit later and then there were you know it seemed like you were kind of finding your way it became less about chocolate chip muffins and more about sex education on your channel don't be fooled though my life is still very much about chocolate chip muffins. Whose isn't? Right? Real. That's real. Yeah. No, I think I just was uploading stuff that was interesting to me. Like a lot of YouTubers, right? Sure.

They just upload random stuff and they find their way. Yeah. And seeing what resonates. Yeah. With the audience and also what makes me feel excited. Right. What kind of content I want to make and that makes me feel fulfilled and proud of what I'm putting online.

So the nexus was sex. Yeah. Sexist. It was. The nexus was sexist. There we go. It's actually very fitting. Yeah, no, the sex stuff was relevant

and also I found a lot of people want a place to talk about it. There wasn't really anywhere online. There's more places now to talk about that stuff as a teenager, but there really wasn't, especially not on YouTube. The only stuff that was talking about sexuality on YouTube was sexy. It was like, hey, here's this vibrator. Come check it out. You have to be 18 or older to watch the video. It wasn't like, let's talk about the experience of figuring out sex as an 18 year old. And do you feel, I mean, you kind of already said this early on when you said that you felt like

your background in the Mormon church really contributed to your perspective and what you're doing now. It almost feels like your background and sort of the philosophy of the Mormon church is a compass, an anti-compass for where you want to take things. It's like, you know, I'm going to go in the exact opposite direction of what I saw that perspective accomplish. At first, definitely. There was like a lot, like I said, that the whole atheist thing, it was definitely a rebellious thing. But now I don't feel like it's so much just trying to not be the Mormon church, right? I actually have much more respect for the place of religions now and like,

what religion, the intersections between religion and sexuality, my viewpoint has matured. And I think that, you know, a lot of people because of my past see me as like the anti. That's not the case. And part of it is because I don't talk about that part anymore. Like how my views on religion and God and the world have evolved. That's not what I do online anymore. So kind of like in a sense, like a lot of people are stuck with my 17-year-old self online in a lot of ways. Right. Well, it's interesting because I'd say still probably the majority of the world still kind of gets their perspective on sexuality from some holy book, whether that's the Quran

or the Bible, the Book of Mormon, right? Absolutely, yeah. And so it's like, it's a lot of, well, this has been prescribed by God, and so therefore, I'm going to, this is what I'm gonna do. So as someone who is, you know, like you said, it's not like some rebellious rejection at this point,

but it was a rejection and you don't subscribe to that anymore. So where do your guiding principles for the advice that you give, where does that come from? Well, my philosophy has become one that sexuality is a part of life. It's natural. It's healthy. We need to be safe about it. We need to be real about it. We need to arm people with information. Knowledge is power know all that good stuff and I think that the guiding philosophy is there's nothing wrong with your body there's nothing wrong with sexuality really what we want to do is be real about how people feel and make sure that they're equipped to be safe so that we can minimize harm right like in

public health terms I'm very much about harm reduction I'm not about telling you what to do what not to do but to figure out how to do whatever you're going to do in the safest way possible so when I'm giving advice to people about relationships or sexuality or gender or whatever it's very focused on taking care of the person and making sure that they're safe

what about when it comes to harm of the heart as a dad I'm very much concerned about the health of my kids' hearts, you know. Yes, it's an important thing to be healthy. And helping them navigate, you know, the realities of sexuality.

What's your interface with that? You know, you're not your audience's mom or even their older sister. I know you're saying you're trying to be their friend, but it starts to get a little more dicey when you're talking about the health of someone's heart. And then, okay, what does that mean about monogamy? Yes.

Well, there's a lot of big, tricky questions that I, as like a human being outside of the internet, am figuring out. When you say of the heart, though, issues of the heart, what do you mean by that? Like their feelings or their soul? Emotionally, in the simplest form, in contrast to when you talk about safe sex

and you say, okay, well, safe sex physically and that you're not gonna get STD or you're not gonna have get STD or you're not going to have an unwanted pregnancy. Totally. The emotional side of sexuality. Yeah, I think I do address that too because I think, well, what we know from the research, and there's been a lot of research on this because of all the abstinence programs, is we know when we arm people with information about the physical stuff and help them feel empowered about their bodies, they do actually wait longer to do sexual stuff. So I think that that's healthy. I think that kids should wait, you know,

a little longer than a lot of them do. And the best way to do that is not to say you need to stop and, you know, suppress all of your feelings. They're not okay. This is wrong. You need to wait and wag your finger. But to arm them with information and have the conversation about what it means to be ready to have sex. You know, what does it mean to have a relationship with someone? What are the things that come up? Can we talk about that openly? Can we figure that out? Instead of telling people what to do. It's really the telling what to do in always with the best of intentions, right? I actually think that the abstinence movement does have some good intentions at heart. They just want to protect the heart, right? But it's misguided because that's not how, it's not what teenagers respond to and that's not how we're actually going to protect them. It's maybe a

little counterintuitive, but it doesn't work that way. Both in my experience and by the data, you know, it shows us that's not how it's going down out there. So what do you say to your audience about the emotional impacts of becoming sexually active? If you're talking to like kids who are just beginning to explore that. Yeah, so a lot of the stuff, I mean, I talk mostly to women, right? And a lot of what I talk to young women about is it's okay to say no. And it's important to have someone respect your body and respect your boundaries and empowering them personally to know that they can say and do what they want to do. And a lot of the time they're feeling pressured to have sex. If you say, hey, your decisions are

your decisions and it's totally valid. Let's talk about what those feelings or where you're at with it. They feel empowered to wait a little longer, right? And to protect themselves more. I just, yeah. Is that kind of where you were going with that? Yeah, definitely. And I guess my only other, my curiosity was the why behind waiting because it's easy to talk about the mechanics of the biology of it or even the empowerment of this, it's my decision, but then the impact of... Well, what if your decision as a 13-year-old girl

is like, I wanna have sex? Yeah. You know, it's like, you know... How do you quantify the emotional and metaphysical impact of that? Well, it's tricky stuff. And I think that, you know, a lot of kids, because we live in such a sexually prude and simultaneously hypersexual culture, we have really a lot of extremes going on. Kids are left without the guidance, realistic guidance that they need. So talking

to the 13-year-old who wants to have sex is very complicated, not just because you're 13, but because of all of the culture that exists around this, the context of the 13-year-old's life. So unpacking all that stuff is really important too, which is how I kind of came to more of the feminist content that I put online. Because I want to empower girls as people so that their sexuality is empowered as well and they're making decisions based on what they want and what's right for them. Do you have somebody in mind when you're, you know, an audience member in mind when you're creating your content?

Like, who do you picture? Myself. Like, younger me. Right. 15, 16, 17-year-old Lacey. Right. In that time where you were kind of all the upheaval was happening. Yeah. And I try to kind of stay really in touch with that part of myself because I think people forget as I forget as I'm getting older, you know, you lose some of that raw memory of what it feels like to be at that age and to be going through those things.

Right. So keep holding on to that. And then speaking to that, I think is part of a big part of what I do. Right. And of course, and one of the realities you're making videos on YouTube. I mean, you know, you're talking about these things on YouTube. You also got to be a marketer, right? Right. And so that takes an interesting direction. You know, you've called some of your approach frank. You might say some of your video titles are frank, like Dirty Vaginas, Freaky Labia, Shaving Pubes. Do you like the titles?

Just to name a few. Are they great? Well, before you get into the strategy, I will say that obviously, you're making videos mostly for women, but when a girl makes a video called Shaving Pubes, there's gonna be a bunch of dudes watching that as well. So do you ever look at the analytics and think about all the- I hope this is a how-to. The dirty old man, what is the dirty old man factor?

Oh, God. Is there like a 40%? I don't wanna think about it. But it's a reality, It's a reality, right? No, actually, my audience is very female-dominated. It's like 70% or 80% between 13 and 25. Because once they get in, they're like, oh, she's not actually shaving her pubes. Then they're like, okay. You know, okay, got it.

I'm not going to be into this. Yeah, no, there's definitely some weird stuff. But just like any YouTuber, you just have to have tough skin and just let it kind of roll off your back. It definitely bothered me a lot when I was younger, the weird stuff, the pervy stuff. I don't really pay as much attention to it anymore. And I also think that I command more respect because I'm more confident now

and I think that comes through on camera. I'm an adult now. When I started, I was not an adult. Yeah, right. So I think that has changed the way that people comment on my videos too. What is the strategy with the titling? The strategy is I want you to feel entertained and there's a little bit of taboo-ness, right? That's okay. I think that it pulls people in. You have to meet people where they're at with

these topics. That's another guiding force for me is where are people at with it? Not where I'm at, not where doctors are at or public health officials are at. How are kids talking about it? And that's how they're talking about it. So I want to speak the language that I know that works and would speak to me. Yeah. And at the same time, it doesn't hurt that having a sensational title, it leads to more views, right? I mean, that's part of it as well. You guys are YouTubers. Oh yeah.

We're all YouTubers here. We've tried it all, all caps. Freaky is a word we haven't used a lot. We use crazy, bizarre, insane. Weird. We actually use bonkers recently. Bonkers, whoa. We literally have meetings

for our Good Mythical Morning team where we sit around and try to come up with new ways to say crazy. And I recently pitched Bonkers. Wow. And it won. I like that. And we made a video called Bonkers Summer Camps. I pitched.

And it's doing well. I pitched totes, redick, something. That didn't work. That didn't work. No, I like bonkers, though. I might have to use that. Yeah, yes. You can bring it back in style.

Feel free to take bonkers and run with it. Okay, I'll credit you for it. Bonkers what? What would it be? Bonkers? Bonkers sex? I don't know. That's the obvious one, right?

Bonkers sex. Bonkers vagina with teeth. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Oh, God. You did recently say that in a video, not recently,

but one of your videos did clarify that there have never been teeth found in actual vagina teeth. That is true. Yes. I'm so glad that you clarified it.

I didn't know anyone was wondering that. Oh, I was wondering. Oh, people wonder. Oh, dude. I get emailed about all kinds of weird stuff. They're like,

I'm like, where are you finding this? What kind of weird porn are you watching? You know? But you did say that teeth have been found in like- The uterus. Yes. Other parts. Because of the types of cells that are in there. Buzzer. So that's not like a conjoined twin that didn't unjoin?

That's just- I don't think so. You know what that is? What are they called? Teratomas? They're teratomas. Teratomas, yeah. Well, you know what it really is called. Hashtag science, what? Bonkers.

Man, that uterus teeth is bonkers. Touche. I gotta click on that. If you can always picture the voice of the dirty, when you look at your analytics and you see the like 10%, you just picture a guy like this right here. Oh, I think he sounds like a professor. Hmm, which lady is he talking about today?

An Oxford professor. Bonkers, this is bonkers. Bonkers? Okay, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about men. Let's talk about feminism because that is a big part of your content. And we're going to talk about Sam Pepper.

Just give you a heads up. We're going to talk about Sam Pepper. Just give you a heads up, we're gonna talk about Sam Pepper. Great, my favorite topic. But first, let's talk about how do you feel about the fact that your content does kind of invite, in some senses, the same type of thing that you're trying to battle, right? Because sexist dudes are going to see you in a certain way because you talk about sex, frankly.

As a target? As a target. Does that happen? Yeah, of course. Have you read my comment section? Yeah, I mean, so what? I mean, so what, how do you process that? Mm, I don't really anymore.

It's not like a part of my regular processing. I've kind of gotten over the fact that that just happens online. But yeah, I mean, at first it was really upsetting to me. I also found that I get that kind of feedback no matter what I upload. It doesn't matter if it's about sex, although that probably just makes them feel like they have license to do even more. But the fact that I'm a woman

makes them feel like they have license. The fact that I talk about my life or sexuality gives them license. There's a lot of aspects of what I do that make them, like you said, see me as a target. But I'm not gonna let them target me. And you're not gonna feed the trolls. You're smart enough to not feed the trolls.

No. You're not gonna make a video where you get upset about that behavior. No, although I have made videos before calling it out, calling out that behavior. How did that go? When I was younger. Very badly. Right.

Very badly. You learned the lesson. Yeah, I learned the lesson, but I think also the community learned the lesson too. Like there was a bit of an exchange I had with some YouTubers and it was growing pains. But I think honestly, it's not a healthy way to handle it. But it is one of the most difficult things to resist, right?

Especially when you're younger, when people say something and you're like, that doesn't, you're stupid. That doesn't, that's not me. You're misrepresenting me. You're mischaracterizing me. You're, it's just, it's so hard to not respond, but all they want you to do is respond.

Yeah. So they can be legitimized. That's true. They want you to legitimize them, but I just don't really care. Like, like why, why do I owe, who are you? I don't owe you any explanation, or I don't need to defend myself, I know who I am.

I know what this is about. The fact that you're misrepresenting it is a completely different issue, and I'm not gonna entertain it, you know? Right. Can you give us the complete Sam Pepper story from your perspective? God, really, The complete one?

Just like how you were, you know, like what your, how it all happened from your perspective when people started reaching out to you and the video you decided to make just for people who may not know that whole story. Yeah, so it was really awful. It was like a really bad experience for me, seriously.

Because I have talked about sexual violence stuff and I speak at a lot of schools about it. And so I've become like a really bad experience for me seriously because i um i have talked about sexual violence stuff and i speak at a lot of schools about it and so i've become like a place that people feel like they can talk to about this stuff i noticed this stuff online you know a flood gate was open let me start at the beginning the beginning was sam pepper is a uk youtuber who uploads prank videos i'm using my air quotes right now. Prank videos where he grabs women on the street, he forces his mouth on them, and these videos are very uncomfortable. The women are like seriously weirded out

that this guy is putting a camera in their face and grabbing them and making out with them on the street. And if a guy ever did that to me, I was like, oh my God, he would have been punched in the face by now. Do not touch me. But these girls are like, oh, my God. They're shocked about what's going on. And he's making all these videos and getting all, you know,

he's got tons and tons of views. And I become a little bit concerned once he crosses a line and he starts to grab a bunch of women's butts with a fake hand. And he's like freaking them out right so i just wrote this letter this open letter saying hey this is not an appropriate message to send out to your audience it's not an appropriate way to treat women on the street this is harassment the letter the letter so let's let's stop for one second and say, okay, the decision to write the letter, what went into that for you?

Feeling like I had to say something. I just was like, what is going on? And people were messaging me about it, and there was a lot of upset about it, and people just sort of looked to me as, oh, that's her topic. Can you help us out, right? She talks about the sexuality stuff she talks about sexual violence and you chose a letter not a vlog at first yes well i chose a letter

because i didn't want it to be such a big thing i wanted to be low-key like let's hope he sees this i just wanted him to read the letter that was like a tumblr post right yeah it was just a tumblr post um but then all these people started YouTubers started contacting me about the letter. They were also very upset. And I realized, whoa, a lot of YouTubers were also feeling really awkward about this and didn't know what to say. They wanted to co-sign the letter. And I started getting hundreds of people like, can you add my name? Can you add my name?

The letter on Tumblr gets 100,000 some notes and goes very viral. It's in my most viewed, I think, post on Tumblr. So there's a lot of community traction around it. Then because, you know, all the eyes were on this, me talking about Sam Pepper, then I started, I got a couple of emails from girls who met him and had very concerning experiences at places like VidCon. And, you know, it was two or three girls. One of them was actually in the middle of a lawsuit that she was going to press charges against him and was reaching out to me just to say hey you should know that i'm actually working on a lawsuit right now i'm thinking about pressing charges you know she's already in the system with this you should know if there's other people coming forward about this

i would like to know that just for me as a person um you know and i realized the situation the situation just got so much bigger for me all of a sudden. Yeah, you became a focal point of people wanting to respond. Yes. And after the letter, before you took any other action, at that point, did you hear anything from Sam Pepper or from his fans? Yes. Sam Pepper was messaging me and he

was threatening me on Twitter and I was getting emails and tweets and it was not pretty. He didn't want me to talk about it. And he was clearly trying to intimidate me a little bit. And I was like, uh-uh, you're talking to the wrong person. I'm not going to be intimidated by you. And that just sort of gave me more urgency to the situation. If he's trying to get me to shut up, what is going on? You know, like, what is the situation that I've accidentally stumbled into? And you and you were open about the fact that he was threatening you? Yeah. Yeah. Because I think people should should know how he's behaving and how he's responding, because I think it's really telling the way that he responded and concerning. And I think that people, you know, you talk about it.

People think I'm trying to like do something for myself. Like people try to make it like I was trying to get attention. Like what people don't know is I'm like the least – I don't want attention about this kind of stuff. Like this is terrible, complicated, messy stuff. I don't want to about this kind of stuff like this is terrible complicated messy stuff i don't want to be mixed you know mixed up in that you know you hadn't built your um career on calling out individuals no policing um other people no that's not that's not my style i prefer to talk about the issue not the the person. But in this case, this person is a real predator in the community.

And I was worried about him going to conferences and some of the things that have been disclosed to me, details of the lawsuits. It's terrifying. And so then there was the exchange which he was making public tweets.

And then so you were making public the exchange you were having with him. Yes. And then what? And then there was a lot of stuff working with a few people behind the scenes. There was a ton of press, too. Oh, yeah. That was a big stressor, too. Because then all of a sudden, BBC wants to talk about this and all these big major media outlets. And I, oh my God, I thought I was going to collapse or like explode, one or the

other, right? Because I was also on tour while this is going on. I'm speaking at a new university every day. I've got tons of events, my schedules super packed, and I've got this enormous mess on my hands online and I'm all alone. It was just a massive implosion. And you really sense that when you make your vlog, Sam Pepper Exposed, you're sitting on the bed in the hotel room. You look like you have, you know, you're just, you're so not a willing participant in this. It's like, I am so reluctantly involved in this and speaking, and you can sense it in what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, it was a lot of stress for me, and I didn't want to do the wrong thing. I wanted to make sure I was handling this right. I felt

like I had a lot of eyes on me. I did have a lot of eyes on me. I didn't want to get myself in legal trouble. I didn't want to make false accusations. I didn't want any bad thing to happen, right? I wanted like justice to be served and that's it. I needed to figure out the best way that I could facilitate that because at this point, everyone was like, well, Lacey, we'll handle it. And in some ways, I'm a little bit upset that more people didn't try to help me out like a lot of people just preferred to watch yeah and not but maybe they feel felt as helpless as i did you know they were like i don't know what to do and i didn't know what to do either you know it's just it's a big mess so and so when you said i was alone you you experienced support but it was

like okay yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna back you up with what you did but and like i'll add my name to the list or things like that but what were you alone did you find any help if that was a lawyer or anybody you know like what kind of help did you find were there any resources and i I think as a community, is there feedback for the community at large? Because I think that's important to hear is that there was a lot of support externally, but then internally as you were navigating this, it sounds like maybe people didn't know how to help.

Yeah, I think that's true. How could they? as you were navigating this it sounds like maybe people didn't know how to help yeah but how could how could they i think that people could have been more vocal and could have maybe it would have been nice to have someone reach out and be like hey do you need like help do you need an ear do you what can i do you need some support in this um That would have been helpful for me because I was completely alone in it and trying to figure out some resources. I contacted friends of mine in the sexual violence space. I'm very well connected. And I used to be a counselor for the state, for California state. So I am connected to state resources in California. So the LA case was something that I felt more equipped to handle, but there was another

one in Buffalo and another one in the UK. And those situations, helping them, wasn't sure how to do it. Handling it publicly, wasn't sure how to do it. You know, wasn't sure like what the right, how do I do this? This is really bad, guys. Like, do I just right i don't know when you made the video yeah like what what um what was the decision to make the video at that point and then how did that go the decision to make the video was needing these conferences to kick him out, that was a big part of it.

And needing people to know that this is a high-risk situation and people need to have their eyes on this and need to pay attention to what's going on over here. We can't just sweep this under the rug. This is like a real serious issue that's happening at these conventions. And I felt like if I don't say it, who is? No one. Right. No one was going to say anything. And people did, a few people said stuff after I did,

but it was still a very few people who really publicly talked about this issue. And I think it was a lot of people who I would consider part of the more feminist community, the LGBT community. That you were kind of expecting to speak up. Yeah, yeah. Not like people who have more overlap with these actual audiences, right? With Sam Pepper's audience. Like that

is a different community and I wanted more people who are in that community to speak up and say hey, we don't stand for this. This is not okay. This is not an okay way to interact with your fans. And we need to have higher standards for ourselves and have more awareness of what kind of content we're posting online, what kind of message we're sending to people. What are we building our channels off of? Harassing women? Is that going to be your channel theme?

Right. Like, is that acceptable? No, it's not acceptable. And I feel like nobody wants to say that. Nobody wants to talk about that, and especially not people who are more, you know, further away from my community on YouTube. And so the aftermath of you kind of bringing these things to light,

you know, the accusations and these things, I mean, this pretty much did him in, I mean, really. He got dropped by his network, he kind of went away from YouTube for a good while. He was blacklisted from VidCon, as an example, maybe Playlist and other conferences. But you made a follow-up video where you kind of explained that you felt like appropriate action had not really been taken. Things had not gone far enough.

That's right. I think he should be in jail. I absolutely do. He should not be running around in the world. And, you know, I am aware. I can't follow him because it's really upsetting to me. But my friends kind of keep an eye on him and let me know. And he's still doing some shady stuff.

I know he's still doing. And I feel helpless. I don't know what's. I don't know. So for me, I've just had to. He's still making YouTube videos? I don't know if he's still making YouTube videos. Some of the situations that I've heard about have happened over Snapchat.

Because he uses Snapchat. Oh, okay. So, yeah, there's still... There's very much unrest in my soul about this situation. Yeah. And that video was the earliest of that unrest. But it's still there. And it's not just about Sam Pepper either.

It's about feeling like, oh, YouTube is such a utopia in a lot of ways, but here's this dark part that we have to confront. And no one wants to, and it's really uncomfortable, and no one knows how, and feeling like I'm the only person. I don't feel equipped. If I don't feel equipped, who does? Well, I can say from my perspective,

just to encourage you somewhat, you may feel like justice hasn't been served specifically with him, but I would say that you impacted the culture of YouTube prank videos in a significant way. You think so? I'm not saying that it's stopped. Yeah.

But I'm saying that I feel like there are a lot of people out there who may have supported or liked a video, but now they think about, is someone being taken advantage of? What is the motivation behind this? Yeah. I mean, it made me,

obviously that particular video where he's grabbing the butts was, he's crossed so many lines that most people are like, okay, this is unacceptable. But I think there's so many other videos that got close to that line, approached that line, that were really already breaking a line. And I think it makes other people be more sensitive to it. So I think, it's not like, the battle isn't over by any means, but you contributed, the line and i think you know it makes other people be more sensitive to it yeah so i think

you know it's not like the battle isn't over by any means but you contributed you threw a large bomb out there that was effective thank you i that that is very nice to hear um because i always i often feel defeated like you know it hasn't changed um and you know when you're an activist it's easy to just kind of focus on what's wrong instead of what's right. Like, you know, focusing on, wow, there's still so much on there. Like, what do I do? Instead of acknowledging what you just said. Right.

Yeah. So we have to take what we can get. Yeah. And I think another thing we want to talk about quickly is, you know, there's the overt stuff, the obvious taking advantage of women in the way that Sam did in his videos and apparently in private too. But then there's the more subtle sexism, right? And you got a couple of guys like us, mid 30s,

maybe even a lot older than that now, growing up in North Carolina and surrounded by tobacco fields, there's no doubt that we say inadvertently sexist things. Let's leave tobacco out of this first. Well, why you gotta complicate it with tobacco? Because that's just makes it more complicated. Okay, all right, forget the tobacco.

Just trying to set a scene here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are the inadvertently, or maybe, I don't know, maybe it's not inadvertent. What are the sexist things that you hear being said and see being done that it's just like, okay, you guys should know about this. Stop saying this, stop doing this.

Online, like on YouTube or in life or? Either, whatever comes to mind. Things that we need to stop saying that maybe, not that you've heard us say it yeah but that yeah i think for me as a woman one of my recurring experience of sex sexism is constantly being uh reduced to how i look um and i think that we all do this to each other to some extent but i think women kind of get a really raw and the raw end of the deal on this and also being on camera all the time you know feeling like everyone's very judgy of women and people don't listen to what I'm saying and it's been such a

battle to be like did you hear the words that just came out of my mouth like I just said them are you hello are you there? And I don't think that that's necessarily like on YouTube thing. That's just my interactions in life. But on YouTube, I think that people need to be aware of representing how we're representing women and kind of making sure that we're leveling the playing field. This is a new media platform that's amazing and exciting. And a lot of, you you know we have to be careful or the the patterns and the trends and the problems that are in traditional media will come in and affect this platform like we have this great opportunity we have to be aware though so that we can make

sure that you know girls and people of color and the lgbt community are all having an equal opportunity on this platform as well. And that's kind of the stuff that I do at VidCon is a lot of working on making sure that the issues that those communities are facing are being addressed so that we can all have fun on YouTube. Do you feel like you're going gonna have to step up and call more people on the carpet? Like, it sounds like it's the last thing

that you wanna do from just a personal quality of life standpoint to go through that again. But is there a need for that, for you to start calling more more instances out like i mean you've got the video about sexism in horror movies but it's not like you're looking at the latest movie that just came out and you're like picking apart the fast and the furious seven have you thought about something like that in in general i do the stuff i do with mtv my mtv braless stuff that is more along those lines okay it's more along the line looking at like current pop culture and current events and stuff

and people um and looking at the conversations that are happening and dissecting that more but i don't like as a as like my personality i don't like conflict and i don't like conflict. And I don't like, you know, the approach. I struggle with how to approach calling someone out, as you say, right? Because I don't want to like complicate it and make it a personal vendetta. Because it's not about the person. It's about a behavior or something. But it gets personal. Does that make sense?

How does the MTV show work? What's the format there, having not seen it yeah um it's just like a feminist pop culture analysis my analysis of stuff that's where do you shoot it you go into a studio in la this is not like it's in oakland my the studio's in oakland okay um yeah the set's in oakland and we have a crew there and we shoot um every week it's like uh we do seasons so there's on and off seasons we're in the third season right now um and it's just you know we're kind of looking at stuff that's relevant to the mtv audience and adding a little bit of an academic flair and adding a little bit of social commentary and kind of giving people new ways to look at different situations that are happening. Like we did some stuff about Mad Max

and about all kinds of movies, Magic Mike and Beyonce, Nicki Minaj. We were talking about all these things through the feminist lens, through an understanding of gender and sexual equality. And what's the filter there? How do you apply that filter to your music videos? Your music, not your music videos.

You know, your run of the mill music video, whether it be a Nicki Minaj or something where it's, I mean, the era of 90s rap music videos, it's changed a little bit, but enough i would imagine in in your view yeah the objectification of women in music videos yeah well of course we talk about that a lot on on braless and like all the different angles of it to help people really understand what it looks like to help them understand how to identify it and why it's a problem and what the difference is too with the objectification stuff what the difference is too with objectification stuff,

what the difference is between objectifying someone and just being sexual. Because sometimes people are like, oh, we're not allowed to be sexual anymore. Women can't be sexy. I'm not allowed to look at their bodies. How do you delineate? Well, the difference is who's the consumer and who's got the power. Like Nicki Minaj, we've talked about her videos is it objectifying do people objectify her absolutely but she is the one that is in control of it you

know she is the one that is choosing it's her sexuality she's expressing her sexuality um and it's a but what but it's not that simple right no it not that simple, but that's a big part of it, is empowering women to be sexual and identifying situations where women are being told they have to be sexual in order to make money or whatever. And that's where it gets complicated, right? It is complicated. I know. It is complicated, right, because you've got, okay, well,

maybe a woman is making the choice, but maybe she's being influenced by the culture and the expectations of her body and how she should present her body, which aren't necessarily expectations that she set. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes, absolutely. And so it's that context, that type of context for a lot of things that are going on in the world and in the media that we're looking at. And it's not like making this is bad, this is good, this is right, this is wrong. That's not my approach. My approach is let's take a look at all the angles here and kind of figure

out the best, most just, most informed way to digest these situations. Does that make sense? Yeah. So do you like Nicki Minaj? I do. I love Nicki. I think she's done some weird stuff, like the Nazi video, like what was that? I don't know what's going on. We'll overlook that. Maybe she didn't know what a swastika was or something.

Yeah, maybe. But you know, yeah, I mean, people are complex, they're complicated, they're not just good people or bad people, people do complicated things, right? Well, thanks for allowing us to explore the complexities of everything that is your life in this podcast. Yeah, of course, no, thank you for inviting me. I feel like this was a little bit of a therapy session

on the sandpap. Like, let me lay it out, guys. Well, we should have brought the couch out. Yeah, where's the Kleenex box? Next time we'll do that. So what's the conclusion, if it felt like therapy for you? I think we sent her a bill.

I think that's the conclusion. The conclusion is you get paid. Oh, great. All right, we'll look for that. Yeah, you might be looking for a while. All right, we're out. There you have it, our Ear Biscuit with Lacey Green. Let her know what you thought about the conversation. You can do that on Twitter.

Her handle is GoGreen18. GoGreen18, make sure you use hashtag Ear Biscuits. Yeah, we love it when you give feedback. Also, when you leave a review for us and this podcast on iTunes or comment along with us on SoundCloud, sex education. I feel like I was educated.

Yeah, I learned some stuff. I'm a 37-year-old man. And it was challenging at the end there. So we don't need to rehash that, but I will just say that I appreciated what Lacey had to say and that gave us a lot to think about as members of this community and how we should stand up when someone's doing the right thing and help them

and support them in that. And she's also just, she is one of the only people focusing on this kind of content and she's not, you know, despite the fact that she titles her videos in a certain way to get views, she's actually doing it also because it is,

she wants to be able to have a frank, unapologetic conversation about sex because she thinks that that's important for people to know about it in a frank way, which I think makes me think about our experience just growing up and how, I mean, there was no YouTube, there was no Lacey Green. So how did you first hear about sex?

I mean, how did you, what was the world of, how was it opened up to you? Sue, my mom, she worked for the health department. That's convenient. Back in Harnett County. And it turns out that in the lobby of her workplace, they have all types of sex education pamphlets. Oh yeah, pamphlets are very helpful.

One with stick figures. Oh gosh. And one of which she decided to give to me and she said, all right, this is gonna teach you some things you need to know as a boy who's starting to go through puberty and- Stick figures? Figuring things out.

Yeah, there's- How old were you? I don't remember that. But when I got the pamphlet, maybe, I don't know, I might've been 12. I went, I was like, okay, she was like, if you have any questions, ask me. But she didn't like read it to me like a bedtime story.

Right. She gave it to me and I went into my room and then I went into my closet. Okay. Closed the door to my room, closed the door to my closet, sat in the closet in the dark with a flashlight and read this pamphlet. You were that scared of it?

I was. Were you scared of it? But the funny thing is, is you took all the steps that someone who's trying to hide something from their mom takes, but your mom had given you the pamphlet. Yeah, so. And you didn't have anybody else in the house, who were you hiding from? Yeah, I didn't have any siblings.

I just felt like it was the type of thing, you wanna be in like a secret place to like read. But I think that that is indicative or it's very telling of, you know, up to that point what you thought about it. You know? Right. This is like secret information that you don't want to talk about openly

and it could be shameful. I don't know exactly what I was thinking, but I felt the need to hide. Yeah, which I think kind of speaks to why Lacey has felt the need to talk about things in the way that she does. Frankly. I mean, because I also think it's generational because I think that we're going to be a lot more apt

to talk about sex with our kids so that it'll make sure that they're educated more so than we were because my parents didn't work at a health department and they didn't, there were no pamphlets and no stick figures. There was just figuring it out through, you know, conversations with friends. Inference.

Yeah, right. Which I don't necessarily think it's the most healthy way to learn about it. There was never like a definitive birds and bees conversation with your parents? No, no. And no pamphlet.

No pamphlet, and I don't, I mean, honestly, I don't really hold it against them because I don't, I don't think many people, I think you actually were probably in the minority at the time in the place where we were with parents that were having open frank conversations about sex with their kids. I went to-

It's because she had the pamphlet. She didn't even have a conversation. She gave you a pamphlet. I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, but that's better than no pamphlet. I also went to visit my dad one weekend around the same time. And I learned a lot by watching Lethal Weapon 2.

Oh, wow. Yeah, well, there's a scene where you can learn a lot. Right, I learned a lot. At least one. From one scene there. Yeah, and that's probably not the most healthy way to learn. Well, it sinks in pretty quickly. It's still there, right?

It's still there. It sinks in and it stays. Yeah. Okay. I didn't think I should have been watching that at that age, so. Yeah, that was probably a healthy instinct. I didn't tell anybody. Healthy instinct, but you didn't go in a closet and watch it because there was nothing like, there was no small like.

VCR. Yeah, you couldn't get like a little iPod in there. That didn't exist. No, it didn't. You couldn't get a whole cabinet with a TV inside of it, inside a closet to then watch Lethal Weapon 3. 2, Lethal Weapon 2. He lived in a mobile home.

Oh, I got it. I remember. Okay, we'll bring another educational episode of Ear Biscuits at your ears next week. And it probably won't relate to sex because we got a lot of that this week. Yeah, we did. But maybe, hey, we're on a roll.

I don't know. No.