Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Have We Sexually Experimented With Each Other? | Ear Biscuits Ep.305

Episode Date: October 4, 2021

Finally, a concrete answer to the burning question posed and fantasized in so many works of fan fiction - have the guys sexually experimented with each other? Listen to R&L talk openly about sexuality and friendship, parenting and the sex talk, and their views on porn in this final episode of Sextember! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance.

Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamx. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life and sometimes sex for a long time. I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. This week at the Round Table of Dim Lighting,

we are wrapping up Sextember by answering your questions, comments, concerns, celebrations, curiosities that you sent to us using hashtag Ear Biscuits around Sextember, which is leaked into October. Yeah, but it could not be contained. And we're gonna be answering some fun questions and we'll see where this goes, but including but not limited to,

have we ever experimented with each other or even thought about it? Sexually. I mean, we've done lots of experiments. We've done science projects together. We do that regularly on the show. But have we ever experimented sexually with each other? It's a burning, burning question

that we are going to answer. Are you referring to when I gave you gonorrhea? Yep, super gonorrhea. As a matter of fact, I still got it. It's a big problem. Yep, I'm just glad to not be alone in it now. Yeah, so- I don't actually, okay, whatever.

Maybe we'll clarify, do we have gonorrhea? This whole exercise has been a lot of fun for me. We've already expressed the fact that there was a lot of trepidation going into this. Anytime we decide to pull a layer back and become honest and vulnerable about something, especially something that most people consider to be private and like, why would you talk about this publicly?

Do you guys go to parties and talk about your sexual experiences? No, not typically, unless that's the point of the party. But again- I have heard of these parties. I've never attended one. Never, yeah. But the ones that I've heard about, ultimately it was about selling sex toys.

It was like- It was like a Pampered Chef for dildos. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Pampered dildos is one of my favorite brands. Not a sponsor yet. But we did unintentionally write a song for a sex toy company during our charity live stream. Hilarious, man.

Twin Tail Toys, I think, got their own theme song. The theme song did not allude to that because we didn't know that's what was happening. Just real quickly before we get into this last episode of Sextember, thank you for all your questions. Thank you for engaging in the conversation with us. Each time we decide to kind of pull back a layer

is we are confirmed in our belief that illuminating these things and being honest and vulnerable about them is only helpful to the community around this podcast. I think it's helpful for us to kind of be able to share these things. But what we see is that people are like, this led me to think about myself in this way

or to breach this conversation or broach, not breach, but broach this topic with my partner. And I just believe that when you bring an illuminating light onto something, the results are positive. When you try to keep things in the dark, when you try to keep things behind closed doors, the results are just usually not good.

So that's why you're like, why do you guys talk about this stuff? This just seems like a unnecessary spectacle you're doing for attention. It's like, well, we know that it gets people a little bit excited when we call something sex timber and talk about sex for a month, but really the heart behind it, the intention behind it

is to continue to bring dialogue into a subject that people are just kind of afraid to talk about that if we would just have freer conversation about this stuff, I think it could be beneficial to all of us. I have really enjoyed the conversations, especially having Christy and Jesse on, super proud of them being brave

and breaking the seal on joining the podcast and thanks for all the positive feedback that you've sent their way. And I know that they appreciate it too. And I've appreciated the experience of just feeling more freedom associated with this topic. And it's helped me undo more of and let go of even more of the baggage. I think that is the exercise of coming out of purity culture for me is being able

to have these conversations, identify when there's embarrassment or shame starts to like percolate and then say and identify as you know what? Actually, that's not, I don't have to feel that way. That's not rooted in where I'm at and where I'm coming from now. So I've enjoyed that part of this. I'm also glad that I haven't said anything really stupid yet

that I regret. Well, we got one left. Okay, yeah, because we want this to be helpful. And the last thing I want to do is like, just by, again, the disclaimer, presenting only our experiences, which are, we have individual experiences, but they're very close, and they're very narrow in the spectrum of experiences

that people have related to their own sexuality and having sex, and even without the context of purity culture, but also within that. So that's still what we're presenting at this point. And this episode will get, you know, I try as much as I'm naturally prescriptive when I talk about things and I try to be persuasive, we have tried to stick with, for the most part,

this is our story, this is our perspective. We're gonna try to do that with these questions because some of them are just asking us, oh, could you clarify this? Could you answer this question about your personal life? But some of it is, how do you think about this thing now? And so again, this is our perspective at this point. Our perspective has changed quite a bit

about so many things over the course of our lives and I expect that it will continue to change. It's pretty fluid and evolves, but this is where we're at now on these things. So- And I think that, as I said with Christy and Jesse, like because sex is not the thing that, it's not just a topic that comes up all the time. Within the trajectory of my spiritual deconstruction

and my entire worldview shifting, and I wouldn't say my lifestyle hasn't shifted, but the foundations of it have shifted. Practically, it plays out pretty similarly. I'm an evolving link, but there's still a lot of me that's still the same. But as I've come to grips with self-discovery and the new me, I think that sex, views on sex lag

at least a little because there's only certain times when it's appropriate to talk about it. And it's not as versus other beliefs, like whether that's how do you interact with hell or et cetera. So I will very much acknowledge I'm still on an active journey of refiguring this shit out. All right, so let's get into it. Kimbo Jimbo asks us,

do you think your strict upbringing limiting you to one sexual partner for you and your wives was a good thing now 20 years into marriage? Or do you wish you had more experience going into it? One of the ways that I process this question is, do I want the current reality to be different? And that's an easy no.

And for me, and I know this might not be the case for everybody, for me, that's no. Like I am very happy with my relationship with Jessie. I'm very happy with our sexual relationship. We have a vibrant and fulfilling sexual relationship and our communication about that is open. And I think our sexual relationship has evolved and gotten better over time, as we said in the last episode,

I feel like we're having the best sex that we've ever had. Now, so the idea of going back and being like, oh, would you like to bring more sexual experience into your marriage? My answer is, well, I can't answer that question because I'm happy with how it turned out, but I don't, again, I don't think that is, for me, a prescriptive thing to be like,

so therefore you also should not bring any sexual experience and you should also bring complete sexual, a lot of sexual ignorance into your relationship and just figure it out together. For us, because of the nature of our relationship and the nature of our communication style and also kind of our sexual disposition, we were able to grow together in kind of a beautiful way,

but there's just as many if not more examples just from like my anecdotal evidence that is out there of people who didn't bring any sexual experience into the marriage and then because of some personality stuff or some specific hangups, that lack of experience and lack of comfort with each other sexually led to maybe years and years of sexual non-satisfaction or maybe like no sex at all.

So I can only speak from my own experience. I would not go back and change it. Yeah, I feel the same way. I think that because Christy and I were, we were comfortable like really learning about sex together and being open and communicative about it, it didn't end up being a problem. It actually became fun for us to learn together.

And I think, you know, I remember there were these, like the conversations we had before our wedding night. It's like, okay, I'm gonna bring up oral sex. And it's like, what if she says, she's like grossed out by it. Like, I'm a little afraid because I mean, I guess I've heard of that from people. So I-

You've heard of oral sex? I'm really- I've heard of people being grossed out by it. Yeah, people being grossed out by it. Yeah, people being grossed out by it, so I'm like, I really hope that she's not, and I remember that moment of like, I'd rather know now than have to figure it out when I'm like, I wanna go in for it, go down on it.

Go down on it, yeah. Or, and vice versa, and hope for that. If you're upside down, it's going up. I was relieved that we were both excited and open to that. Just the future was spread out before us. So we were compatible in that way. And so we, but if not, that would require more work. So it was, we had fun learning each other,

but the fact is we had a lot to learn about ourselves too. And it just kind of made it, that made it part of our story. I think the other way you could, maybe this is not the specific question, but another question that kind of goes along with it is, is there regrets just personally? Like, do I wish I would have had more experience, not so it would have made me a better lover

or so it wouldn't have helped our relationship, but it's just like, hey, I only had sex with one woman ever. I'm curious about that. I'm curious about what it would be like to be with another partner. Of course. I mean, I just am. And it's kind of like when I'm on my deathbed

and I'm like, you know, I never saw the Eiffel Tower. It's like, well, would I have liked to have seen the Eiffel Tower if the circumstances were right for that? Well, a better analogy would be like, is there a famous cave of some kind? Okay, yeah. What's the most famous cave in the world? Because I'm trying to make an analogy for a vagina.

You got the Linville Caverns, which are not that famous. And I've been to them. It was kind of a disappointment. Okay, see, there you go. It's the Linville Caverns, which are not that famous. And I've been to them. It was kind of a disappointment. Okay, see, there you go. It's like, sometimes it's not, your mind is built up. I've never gone through that tunnel underneath the English Channel.

Boy, I'd like to do that. But you know what? I'm sitting here dying on my deathbed. That's why it's called a deathbed. It's really just my bed, but now that I'm dying, we're calling it a deathbed. And I'm saying, you know what? I'm grateful for the life I lived

and I can see the beauty in the tunnel that I did frequent. And I don't, and I can still be honest and say, what I've, is the idea of visiting another tunnel appealing or intriguing? Yes, but I have no regrets in not going there because hey, you can't do everything in life. You can't see all the sites. And by seeing those sites,

you don't know what ramifications that would have in who you are as a person and your experience. And it might would have really screwed up the cozy experience that I've come to know and love and covet that is our own tunnel. Right, basically, again, it kind of relates to the way I was thinking about the question is like, in the context of my own personal experience

and the tunnel that I frequent, the prospect of other tunnels will, because I'm a normal, well, I don't say normal, because I am a sexually active and sexually motivated man, yes, the idea of other tunnels is appealing. And I wouldn't even say man, say person. Person, well, I'm just speaking from my own experience, is always going to be appealing.

And my wife understands that. Like we're not one of those couples that the idea or even a conversation about being attracted to someone else, I mean, hell, I dressed up like Jason Momoa for her birthday because she is sexually attracted to Jason Momoa. And I know that, I get that, I appreciate that. And my way of responding to that was to become Jason Momoa and I know that, I get that, I appreciate that and my way of responding to that was to become Jason Momoa for her birthday, right?

I thought it was funny, I didn't, you know, I played up in the video that like, I was like, I can't believe that I'm the wingman in this thing. It's like, this is ridiculous because it's funny. I will say in the past, like years before that, maybe decades earlier, I would feel uncomfortable when you and Jessie would talk openly about your like celebrity crushes, for example,

or saying things in conversation about how hot you thought somebody else was. I came to realize that for me, some of that discomfort was, well, first of all, I'd realized that that would translate into judgment of you. But that was really, I came to realize a defense mechanism covering up the root of my response,

which was tied into abandonment issues and security issues. So I wouldn't wanna, you know, if Christy brought up something, it might trigger in me an insecurity that like, oh, she made a joke about Keith Urban, you know? And I'm like, does that scare me? Does that threaten me? Does that tap into something deep inside of me

that like, just an honest statement about acknowledging that somebody's attractive all of a sudden means a whole lot to me. But exploring it leads to growth. So I think I've been a little envious that you could speak openly about that because you didn't have that hang up, but it brings up something that I actually do need to work.

If abandonment issues is something that I am working on, but it takes acknowledging that. So, and it happened within that process a little bit. Of course, a lot of other things too. Getting to a point where you can have open conversations, we can be honest about, within the context of your relationship, about like the human feelings, desires, and urges you have,

but then like acknowledging that and then saying, but this is what I'm doing because I love and prioritize you and this is what the decisions we've made as a couple. You know, it's very rewarding to have those conversations. It's difficult and it's scary, but it's better than just keeping it to yourself. And then your partner's walking on eggshells about things. Yeah.

You know, so I just- Well, in that sacrifice, there is a, a sac, because I think the old Rhett who is listening to the new Rhett would be like, oh, he's setting himself up to be able to do whatever the fuck he wants to do, right? Mm-hmm, literally. That is not the case.

It's, moving to the health framework, like I said, it can be a little bit more complicated and complex because it varies from person to person. That's one of the biggest shifts that's happened as my worldview has changed. Moving from a place where you believe there is an objective morality that applies to everyone in every circumstance and it's a one size fits all

to understanding that individual decisions, and it definitely, this is more of a postmodern way of thinking about things, but you are a specific person with a specific perspective with a specific perspective in a specific place in time. And what's most healthy for you is not gonna be the same as it was for somebody else at a different place in time.

And I just think that the idea that, that doesn't mean that now you do whatever you want to, because I'm in the context of a relationship with Jessie and I don't get to do whatever I want to do, right? She doesn't get to do whatever she wants to do because we are in a relationship that involves commitment and compromise, right? You don't just get to be like, I have a desire,

therefore I go and fulfill it and that's the end of the story. It's like, no, everyone has desires that you need to keep in check. And that might be understood and explained in a religious context for a lot of people, but that is just a, that's how human, that's how civilization functions

is by there being cooperation and compromise. So ultimately the idea of like, I've got this thing that, oh, this seems like it would be fun, but would it be best? Would this be good for me? Would this be good for us? Like that and be in what kind of piggyback off of what you're saying, bringing those things out into the open and being like, well,

this actually does seem fun to me or this, I'm interested in this, having that conversation as a couple so you can at least acknowledge it. So it's not just something that's festering and growing on one side of the relationship and then somebody breaks it out and says, I wanna do this. And you're like, well, I wasn't ready for this.

And you're already committed to it in your mind and there's no coming back from it. That's a problem. And I think that's why so often in the relationships that I've seen where people have tried to sort of redefine the nature of their relationship, they haven't ended well because the communication broke down at an early stage or the compromise ended at some point. Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply.

Okay. Murphy Murphy asks, how did you approach the talk with your kids? Well, interestingly, I recorded it. I've recorded my You. Let's just break this. I'm gonna play. But when you do this, then my story will not be as good. So I should tell my story first. You wanna tell your story first? Okay. Yeah, because I mean, you've got a freaking recording.

I'm not gonna play the whole talk. I was just gonna just, I was gonna just. I was just talking to Locke. Just get into the conversation with it, but go ahead. Yeah, so before we play your recording, which cannot be topped, I'll just go ahead and give a precursor. I remember Christy and I decided,

hey, we need to talk to kids about sex. I mean, the older kids, Lily and Lincoln. Lando was too young to have like a detailed conversation of anything of that nature. But we were sitting down at the dinner table and I don't know if we had agreed that this was the particular time. I think I just brought it up.

I was like- Dinner table, huh? Yeah, we had eaten dinner and then the table was cleared and then I like gave Christy a look, if I remember correctly. You did a sex talk as a family? Yes. Without Lando being there? Yeah, I think Lando was dismissed from the table. He wasn't there.

Even if he was there, I don't think he would have cared. So yeah, Lily and Lincoln are two years difference. This is when we lived in the old house, the previous house when we had just moved in there. So this might have been, let's see, if this was eight years ago, they were 10 and eight. So they were probably nine and 11. Because I know that you told me that Locke was nine

when you had the recorded conversation with him. 2013. So I'm sure we were talking about it and I was like, oh shit, I need to have this conversation too. And Christy and I were talking about it. Had it at the dinner table. I don't remember how it started because I didn't record it. I wish I would have.

You should have. Yeah, because you only have, if you do it right, you only have to do it once. That's not actually true. And then you just play it for your other kids. That's right. You just play the recording. Well, the sex talk is just whatever their, our approach was, if you bring up the topic

and then as much as they're interested and curious, you engage their curiosity and you answer their questions, but you can kind of, we knew we would kind of feel out when would be the point where they were no longer interested and then in subsequent conversations. And that's when it gets good point where they were no longer interested. And then in subsequent conversations- And that's when it gets good, when they don't wanna hear anymore. They would get more information.

So it was kind of breaking the seal on us being able to talk about sex whenever it needed to come up. It wasn't a one and done deal. Right, that's a good strategy. So I know that was our mentality. I can't remember a lot of what we said, but I do remember very early on talking about like the mechanics of a penis goes into a vagina

and then a baby is made in the woman and then it started to make sense. And I do remember using the finger going into the hole created in the fist symbol. You mean the Eiffel Tower going into the hole created in the fist symbol. You mean the Eiffel Tower going into the tunnel underneath the English Channel. Yeah, so. Really is what this is. I made this symbol.

Which, could it fit? Probably couldn't. I think the Eiffel Tower is way too wide. I looked over at Christy and the symbol she was making was palms over face. Not a, hand pointed towards the kitchen table. Not what you want. pointed towards the kitchen table. Not what you want to communicate.

Like just like double face palm looking down. Yeah. But I was like, this is gonna be awkward. Let's go all the way. And so we were talking about it. And then it kind of gave them, Christy and I both kind of, she kind of clarified and corrected my mistakes.

I was probably not right about everything. And then the first- Yeah, it's not a finger. And they weren't saying anything. And then we were like, well, what do you think? Do you have any questions? And there was silence until Lincoln spoke up and said, awkward. Yeah, I'm sure it was. That was it.

And then it was like- But you talking about anything with your family is kind of awkward. Awkward. Much less sex. Yeah, so I mean, I think all of my interactions have felt like a sex talk with my kids. So how many sex dinners have you had since then? So I think it, again, as we talked about last week,

it's more of this mentality of like, if sex comes up, the words shouldn't be whispered and let's just, these are legitimate questions. Let's respond to them as you are curious. I actually think is an excellent approach. I also think- Until you get to be a teenager and then you've got to go to a next level, but we can talk about that next.

But also an excellent approach is just to record your talk with your kid. I did this because I thought that it would be funny to listen to later and here we are, nine years later. He did give permission, right? No. Oh yeah, not in the time, but yes, now he has. Yeah, I'm saying, yes, I told Locke

that I was gonna play a portion of this. He was like, that's fine. So I do wanna preface this by saying, so this is August of 2013, and I'm thinking about where I was at in my spiritual life. 2013 is really the year when I stopped considering myself a Christian. Sort of the end of 2012 was when I was having

my most sort of like intense, like I just don't think I can keep believing this fundamentally, like the fundamental underpinnings of Jesus being the son of God and raising from the dead and all this, and yeah, been through that whole story. But kind of what you were saying earlier, a Christian sexual ethic was, I hadn't even, now I hadn't for many years,

I'd been uncomfortable with the idea that, I was uncomfortable with Christians who believed that being gay was wrong. I'd kind of, that ship had sailed for both of us. Right. But still, as I thought about my own kids and I thought about the sex talk, it was very heteronormative.

Like I'm going to talk about a man and a woman, I'm going to talk about a penis and a vagina, and I'm gonna talk about procreation and that's what the talk's gonna be. Yeah. And I'm also gonna say, I'm not gonna play the whole thing, I'm gonna play a couple of minutes.

It's longer than that. But I also was like, and this is something that you should wait to do until you get married. Like I was still saying those things to Locke at this time nine years ago when I was presenting this. So I just wanna acknowledge that, that I think now a sex talk would kind of be like,

hey, here's sort of the procreation side of the sex talk and how that works between a penis and a vagina and a sperm and an egg and the uterus and all that stuff. But hey, here's a different conversation or an addendum to that conversation, which talks about sexuality and a spectrum and that kind of thing. That wasn't where I was at at the time.

And so my sex talk reflects that. Just wanted to acknowledge that. Yep, me too. Same, in the same place. So I'll just play this. Okay. You said, you told mom that you wanted to know about how a man and a woman make a baby.

Now tell me, what did you say? What are you wondering about? How they do it. It's not like we can just have one and eat it and stuff. It has to form a certain way. It has to form a certain way? It has to form from something. All right, well, you tell me how you think it works. I'm going to marry someone somehow. I have a baby. Well, how do you think it works. I'm married somehow, they have a baby.

Well, how do you think it happens? The DNA mixes from them. How does that happen? I don't know. Pause it. Just guess. So basically your sex talk so far with Locke is you trying to get him to tell you how babies are made.

Did you not know? Yeah, I needed to have some help on that. It's kind of ironic. Well, my strategy here was, I know I'm recording this, and so this will be a funny way to start it. Yeah. To get his perspective,

but it also gets him engaged in the conversation, gets him talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How would the DNA mix? Because that's kind of true. And they kiss? Hmm. Well, okay. Some physical reaction.

Physical reaction? Like some, I have no idea. I have no idea. Okay. This is going to blow your mind. Okay? Okay. And it may be a little bit embarrassing to talk about, but listen, look at me.

You can talk about anything with me. I'm your dad. And I know a lot of things okay okay now you know that you It's not funny You have a penis, right? Right Okay Do girls have a penis? What do girls have? They have like

What do you think they have? They must have something like a wiener at least. Well, you know how you have a penis, which is like a little finger down there. Do you know what they have? They have like a hole right there? Yes. They have a hole called a vagina. God.

Okay. And the way that God designed this is that when a man and woman get married, they can, well, basically, the easiest way to say this is the man puts his penis...

The finger. Inside of the woman's vagina. It sounds crazy, doesn't it? Did you have any idea about this? No way. doesn't it? Did you have any idea about this? No way. I never even thought of this my whole life. You never thought about this?

I never thought I'd have to go... Now listen. When you get older, not right now, but when you get older, there's something other than pee When you get older, not right now, but when you get older, there's something other than pee that can come out of your penis. And it's called sperm. What's sperm?

It has your DNA in it. Okay, I'm not gonna give you the whole sex talk. Wow, he thought it was hilarious, not awkward, which is great. I mean, you got over, hey, that was a good job. And he, you know, I think, like I said at the beginning, he had been asking. I love the fact that you were asking him the questions

because once you tell him the answer, you can no longer get the full answer because it's gonna be informed by the real answer. So that's the takeaway. If I had to do it again, I would have totally gotten them to commit in the way that you did. Well, that was great.

The reason we had the talk is because Locke has always been super inquisitive and was asking lots of questions. I mean, there were multiple questions for like multiple months and Jesse was like, we have to have this talk. And again, as you heard right there and Jessie was like, we have to have this talk. And again, as you heard right there, I was like, God, this is how God designed it and it's, you know,

when a man and a woman are in the context of marriage, I mean, that was, again, I wasn't even calling myself a Christian at that point, but I was still in a place where it's like, I don't have a new way of thinking about this and so I'm not about to start telling something different to my kids. And Jessie was in a different place as well. She was still calling herself a Christian at that time.

Making it just about how babies are made really simplified it and it reinforced the, yeah, just the whole heteronormative way of thinking about things that we were, yeah, like you said, very much coming out of, but it was like, oh my God, how, like you said, very much coming out of, but it was like, oh my God, how does it relate to, a sex talk was not the first thing we were trying to figure out when you're talking

about our eternal destiny, you know? Yeah. And it was all happening at the same time, you're right. That was in the thick of it. Yeah, and then as you think about the, you know, Shepherd who was five years younger, but also very different. He wasn't asking all those questions.

And so- My kids never ask any questions. The thing that happened, that sort of happened with Shepherd is there wasn't a moment. It was more like older brother and also a household where we were talking openly about things and as Locke got older, talking more openly and it was like, okay, he's here

and he's witnessing these conversations and piecing things together. And so he just kind of figured out as we talked about things in more detail. But the interesting thing is I think this kind of ties into some of the stuff that we talked about with Jesse and Christy of how has this conversation evolved as our framework has evolved?

And I mean, I'm not gonna answer the question again, but just briefly, ultimately, this has turned into a thing where it's just like, as opposed to the way that it was kind of for us, which is like, you've got to protect kids from sex and you've got to protect your children from, you gotta tell them a very particular thing, but you want to kind of keep them

from messing themselves up. I think that the mentality now is like, how can I give as much of the correct information about sex to my kids? And how can I, I'm not saying I'm not going to give them advice, but I'm not telling my kids, I no longer have the ideological framework

that says you should wait until you get married to have sex but I'm not in a place where I'm like, sex means nothing and so therefore, have it with whoever you want to at any time, no consequences, no questions asked. But so it's this ongoing conversation that we continue to have kind of to your point, which is this isn't something that we talked about once,

this is something that we talk about quite a bit in our house now. Yeah, I think it's always fun to figure out this parenting stuff. Yeah. What was the last thing that filled you with wonder that took you away from your desk or your car in traffic?

Well, for us, and I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is... Anime! Hi, I'm Nick Friedman. I'm Lee Alec Murray. And I'm Leah President. And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents

The Anime Effect. It's a weekly news show with the best celebrity guests and hot takes galore. So join us every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll

or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. Andrew asks us, did you have any go-to music when you started to have sex and are there any songs you've listened to now when getting it on?

All right, so a lighter question here. I was listening to, this sounds tropish, but we had a Barry White CD. It was like greatest hits and there were certain, I would put it on at the top and then somehow, then I would have a point of reference with how involved our lovemaking session was

by how far we got into the CD. And it would actually help, I would pace myself to the tracks. Cause it's like, oh, I wanna get- You would thrust to the beat? Well- Is that what you mean? Well, first of all, Barry White music is absolutely made to be thrust to.

Yeah, and you can double time it too. Oh my God, that's what the music is made for. And it's a brilliant experience. I mean, he's so good at it. But it also is a little bit comical and ironic now. Yeah, it's funny. And so, it's, cause that's my, I haven't gone back to Barry White in a while,

but I might break it back out. Now, when we started using music in our sexual, you know, liaisons, which was, right from the beginning, like we had like a little music player or something on our honeymoon. For some reason, Gypsy Kings, remember, you know that band? Oh yes.

That was just like, there was something about it that it wasn't like sort of like cheesy and ironic in the way that like Barry White might be now. It was, this feels like we're on vacation in a foreign country and there's a bunch of people on stage with a bunch of different instruments sort of singing things that we can't really understand. We don't want to understand it.

We just want to speak in the language of love. I recommend specifically their album called Love Songs, which is the one, we listen to Gypsy Kings. Oh, you had Gypsy Kings pulled up. You were ready for this. Yeah, Love Songs starts off with Some of the words in Spanish. It's perfect.

But we actually don't listen to, like we don't do that anymore because we wore that out so much. This has actually become a little bit of a, I'm interested in your perspective, we haven't talked about this. I'm interested in your perspective, we haven't talked about this. I'm interested in your perspective now because with Spotify Playlist,

which I'm not great at collecting things and I kind of see Playlist as collecting things because it like takes this effort and this extra layer of thought. And so I'm using other people's Playlist and no one ever gets the vibe that I'm interested in and Jessie is interested in right. Because Jessie and I,

and Jessie really doesn't want the like, this is somebody singing about sex. Like, it's like, it just gets a little bit like cheesy and you know what I'm saying? Like- It can be distracting in the least. And then there are some couples that I think- That's why other languages are great.

Will use like hard rock music, something like Fight Club, like that scene in Fight Club where she comes out with a rubber glove on or whatever and they're like listening, in my mind they're listening to this hard rock music. We've never done that either. But then sometimes it can get too,

like if you wanna play like Al Green, it could be like, well, Al Green's not bad. Actually, it's pretty good. Sometimes it gets a little too sweet. Yeah, it's not made for that specifically. There's a sweet spot for me, which is just like, there's a little bit of sensual and there's a little bit of sweetness,

but also we're both animals. You know what I'm saying? And that's all hard playlist to create and I just haven't found it yet. Are you asking me to create it for you? No, I'm just asking you how, well like what is the genre at this point? Is it slow jams?

I need to do it for myself too because the slow jams that go, I don't really like that like 90s slow jam stuff. Well then you end up getting R. Kelly songs in there and that's problematic and you're like, ah, you can't do that, you don't want R. Kelly songs in there and that's problematic and you're like, ah, you can't do that. You don't want R. Kelly songs in there. I go to the R&B genre and then,

if I gotta make a quick decision, I'll just go back to the soul playlist within the R&B, but it's like modern, current. So you might get some- Give me an artist. Like an Usher? No, he's not current. Well, he's 20 years, 15, 20 years, I guess. But he's- I'm talking about right now.

Like actually current. Like you got a little bit of SZA, you got the right song, and then you've got some, Beyonce's sister, I'm embarrassed, I'm sorry. Solange. Solange, I'm sorry, Solange. Solange, I'm sorry Solange. I know you hate that girl and I take it back. And we know you're listening apparently. Solange has got some good stuff.

And those things start to, Lucky Day with an E on the end, he's a current R&B artist that you can get some good stuff from, but they're not creating entire albums that are just for sex like Barry White did. So I do need to create my own playlist and I'll share it with you.

And then you can move it around so you can pace yourself and then measure, it's like, all right, this is how I wanna, I like to think of it like that. Sometimes you just gotta like, I mean, don't you do that? Sometimes you're like, all right, slow down, change it up. Well, you gotta, let's keep, this is not gonna- I think what you're getting at is the number of songs

helps you understand like how long you've been going and make sure that you're not moving too fast. Now, I told you about my smart situation that I had with the lights and everything. So if I say, hey Google, it's business time, it does start a playlist that I made and it also turns all the lights red, which is pretty exciting for me.

It's like, I feel like I'm infrared, everything looks a little bit different. Yeah, well, the internet is currently out of my house. So you have to beatbox. So make sure you save a sex playlist to your locally. So if the internet goes out, you still got that. Music is very important for us because we're, I mean, the way our house is configured,

it's very nice that our bedroom is like isolated from everybody else's bedroom and the rest of the house. So, I mean, we're running interference on like kids coming and knocking on the door or like hearing us. But the music, but the kids know the music means you're having sex. I don't know. We never had a conversation with our kids about like,

you know we have sex. Like Christy didn't, we don't talk to Lily about that now. I mean, she's out of the house and it's like, by the way, next week is when I'm't talk to Lily about that now. I mean, she's out of the house and it's like, by the way, next week is when I'm gonna talk about the whole experience of Lily leaving home, sending our first child off to college. We're not gonna be talking about sex next week, but hey, that's gonna be a good one, so come on back,

you sex fiends. Oh, well. I don't know if my, my kids have been very naive about all that, but I know we got a friend who's like, I tell my kids, mom and I are going to have sex and that way we don't have to worry about them knocking on the door.

And I kind of wish I would have done that. We haven't done that, but I think our kids know. So, and our door doesn't lock right as I've established, but music has been important. But last night, Lando was at your house with Shepherd. Of course, Lily's gone now and Lincoln was at a meeting and it was the first time at night, I was like, whoa, nobody's here, it's just us.

It's like, we don't even need to play music, even though we don't have internet, played a little music, but like, we never have the house to ourselves. So we have, and we have this commitment to making it work anyway, but like, I was like, man, I'm gonna yell! Like, we were in the midst of it and I'm like,

I'm, I can yell at the top of my lungs! I was literally sex yelling because it was the first time in as long as I can remember. Pleasure noises, you were literally saying what you just said? A little bit, I didn't say, this is still free! I didn't say that, but I was like, yeah, I mean, we talked during sex and we,

sometimes, I did it because it was funny. Like she was laughing, I was like, I can yell at the top of my lungs and no one can hear me. I'm having sex in my own home. This is exactly what I was yelling last night while having sex. Your neighbors heard you, which is fine. I think that married couples develop a way,

I mean, if you wanna talk about it explicitly, it's just like- I do. The moment of orgasm, which can typically be very loud, married couples with children have a way of basically climaxing and it's just all in the face. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you could definitely like dub this and you would think they were making noise,

but really they're just going. You know, it's like you could put a grunt and some mo were making noise, but really they're just going. You know, it's like you could put a grunt and some moans under there, but they're not doing it because they've been trained to not make that much noise. But then you go on vacation and there's this adjustment period to be like, oh no, no, we can actually, we can make noise now because our children are not here,

but you've gotten used to, the sex can be very intense, but still you're kind of like mouthing noises versus making noises. Yeah. And I think there's a transition, especially when the kids leave for good, I think that we will become louder and louder. Yeah, even last night I was like,

man, we're really missing out on this, the vocalizations. Yeah. It does make a difference. Warbird asks, got a sex timber question for Rhett. You are tall and your wife is not. Does this present any sexual challenges and or opportunities? You know what? I don't think it presents either.

I'm interested in the opportunities, but I have not run into the challenges. Just to be quite frank with you, and I don't know what it is about, I mean, I am 6'7 and she is 5'3. But- Certain things have to line up, but that means other things won't line up.

Like if your twig and berries are lining up with the tunnel, would your mouth gonna line up, but that means other things won't line up. Like if your twig and berries are lining up with the tunnel, is your mouth gonna line up? Would you be surprised to know that we can be fully connected, and when I say fully connected, what I mean is my penis will be in her vagina. Great. And we can be kissing at the same time.

Would you be surprised to know that that's possible? Definitely. Well, we do it all the time. Are you in some like, is like some kind of like cow yoga position? Think about your necks. So first of all, I have a back that can bend a little bit and I have a head and she has a head and we both have necks.

And so if I'm bent a little bit and she's like this and I'm like this, mouth tongue action. So we can be making out and screwing at the same time and do that on a regular basis. And it has never presented it. Now also because your height difference is over the course of your whole body. So if there is a, what is that difference?

A 14, 16 inches difference? It's spread out proportionally. Yeah, it's not like there's a 16 inch difference between where my penis and my mouth is. If your big toe was your penis. That difference is from my head to my toe. Yeah. So there's probably only, I'm only probably accommodating for like seven

or eight inches of difference between my penis and my mouth just to get geometric about it. And then I'm bending and there's, yeah. So, but to answer your question, is the height difference an issue? And it has not been an issue for us. I hear that loud and clear. All right, let's talk about us.

Toxic Tonic asks, have you guys ever experimented with each other or even thought about it? First of all, thanks for asking because I think that apparently there's a lot of people who want to know this and speculate and I don't know if this is just a Tumblr thing, but definitely they are.

It's concentrated in Tumblr. They want to like assert it as a reality. Right, it's beyond speculation. It's an assertion that this is a definite reality. And of course there's fan fiction written about us that then our crew has gotten us to read on the show. The only reason I'm hesitant to answer this question is because I actually think the fact that people

firmly believe that we're having sex with each other might be the reason that they're fans. And so I really appreciate fans. So I don't wanna lose any fans. Well, but we, I mean, we're committed to being honest here. Right, we gotta be honest. And I wanna explore this completely, but the simple answer first is

we have not experimented with each other. I've never experimented with anybody. I've seen your penis a couple of times. Oh, like wow, like maybe, we skinny dipped a few times with friends over the years. I mean, talking about like high school. Yeah, I've seen many of my friends' wieners.

You know, we've urinated next to each other. I've never seen your erect penis. I've never seen yours either. But yeah, it was flaccid when I happened to catch a glimpse of it. Here's what I will say. The most physical that we have been with each other, you've already seen it on the internet.

Like we've cuddled with each other. you've already seen it on the internet. Like we've cuddled with each other, we've gotten close to kissing each other. We may, have we kissed each other on GMM? I don't know. No. I've kissed Chase on GMM. Right. Well, we had a, we like kissed with glass in between us.

We kissed with glass in between us. But it was very quick and it wasn't, it wasn't something that we were excited about. The closest that we've been to each other physically has been something that has already been broadcast on the internet. And there's lots of, there's photos, there's many photos out there of us kissing

that are people taking things that have happened on GMM and Photoshopping them together. And they're very convincing and look very real. Yeah, but we've never done that. But so I'll go a step further and say, I'll just speak for myself. Yeah, speak for yourself. I'll let you speak for yourself.

It's just never crossed my mind. I mean, it honestly has never crossed my mind. I think people who think that we're, they experience our bond of friendship and they want it, they see how meaningful it is. And the way that I make sense of it in the fan fiction is that it is a, it's taking something that is very real,

which is our friendship, our best friendship bond and connection. And there is a friendship platonic intimacy associated with that. And it is an unusual and very intense and long friendship. Absolutely. And then people want to say, well, for some people to make sense of that,

they say that there must be an unspoken or not public romantic attraction sexual element. From my perspective, it's just never crossed my mind. I've never, and I've never observed desires welling up within myself of attraction to you. I gotta say I'm a little disappointed. I'm sorry. But I will say-

I do a lot to try to make myself attractive. But that statement also applies to any other guy, straight, gay, whatever. I just, I've never observed within myself. You're not even attracted to like Jude Law? No, no, I'm not. I've not experienced any sexual attraction to another guy. And I think people who see our relationship,

they just, they wanna make sense of it. But people also desire for, because we have this intimate friendship, they desire for us, for it to, there's a fantasy that for it to really be, to go all the way, it has to be romantic, if not sexual. Yeah. And so- I mean, I actually,

I don't know, like I don't- I don't know either, but I do think that like, it's an opportunity to say, you know what? You can be in a devoted, intimate friendship and it never come close to having a romantic or sexual element because that's exactly what's happening. And I think that that is something that we're very proud of and that we've come to grips with being a cornerstone of why people want to enjoy our-

When you say proud of, what do you mean? I'm proud of- You're not proud of not being gay. No, I am proud of being unabashedly your intimate friend. Yeah, yeah. Ofly your intimate friend. Yeah. Of being your best friend. Like even saying, like there's a vulnerability in saying, you're my best friend. I love you as a friend.

And there's nothing that you can do to change that, that we have a bond. Because if you- Unlike anybody else, but, and it doesn't have to be romantic or sexual for it to be extremely meaningful, and I'm very proud of what we have. Right. And I think that's an- But it's different.

It's an important point that you're making, which is, because if you assume that in order to really be bonded with someone, Right. That it has to be romantic and it has to be sexual, what you're doing is you're discounting the intimacy that can come from a platonic connection, which is what we have as like a brotherhood,

a literal blood bond, like not literal brothers, but we did a blood oath. And I find that, and I'm not gonna assume where that comes from, because it's not me and I don't know exactly why it happens. And again, there's a part of me that, I think maybe 10 years ago, there was a part of me

that was a little irked by it because I was like, I don't want people to think we're gay. I'll speak to that too, but go ahead. That bothers me for some reason that I haven't quite explored. Now I'm in a place where I'm like, well, if people think that we're gay and that makes them like us more

and wanna connect with us even more, then so be it. Maybe that's good for the brand. But again, that's why I was a little hesitant to answer the question, but to want to be honest and to disclose the fact that no, I don't think there's, there would be nothing wrong with us being attracted to each other. There would be nothing, it would be complicated.

We would have to figure that out. But no, it's not a reality. And I'll get into like some, I'll get into a little bit more of my own sexuality in a second, but it sounds like you wanna talk to that one point. Well, I think that we're able to have as deep of a friendship bond as we do

because we are, our desires are in the same place. We're very compatible in that way. It would be, I agree, there would be nothing wrong if one of us had a tinge of attraction for the other one or had a desire for something more that the other guy didn't want or vice versa. And then we just had to work through it, but it would create a little bit of incompatibility

in our hopes and desires for what we have, but we don't have that. So I think that has been another, just that's played out in terms of us being able to be secure and celebrate our friendship because our desires are the same. Yeah, agreed. Now, there was a part of me that, you know,

as I have evolved in terms of my worldview over time, you know, first of all, coming from a purity culture, coming from a place where there was like being, the idea of being gay was something that, not only was it wrong, but it was like, oh, that's gross. Like that was the environment that we were raised in, right? Yes.

And so it was unappealing. Like you didn't want to even entertain the idea that you, in fact, I remember in high school, there was a kid who started spreading a rumor that me and you were gay. I don't know if you remember this. I vaguely remember it. I think it was freshman year and I was so upset about that

and it ended up being this thing that we had to go to the principal and talk to him. Really? Yeah, he had like written, he started writing like Rhett and Link, love each other or something like on desks or in bathrooms or something like that. And like I confronted him about it.

And then, so all that to say, I, as my Christian worldview fell away, I was like, well, I wanna like literally be, I wanna be honest with myself. Like, do I, am I, have I been pushing something down because of my background and the fact that it wasn't okay to be attracted to men, so therefore, I wasn't willing to entertain the idea

of being attracted to men. Because I'm like, if I'm just honest with myself, there was never a point, and I use Jude Law as an example, as kind of a joke, but like a handsome man like that, I can recognize when a man is handsome, but there was never a point in which I was like, and I want to kiss him, or and I want to be close with him sexually.

Like, that has never crossed my mind, but I was like, am I repressing something, right? And so I don't remember the first time this was, but I mean, it's been years. I was like, I'm gonna watch some gay porn. Okay. I'm like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna watch two dudes screw each other.

Not only am I a little bit interested in, I mean, I know how do it. I'm gonna watch two dudes screw each other. Not only am I a little bit interested in, I mean, I know how it works. I know that the penis goes in the butt. I know that's how it works, but I kind of, you know, like let's watch that happen and let's get some on the scale of attractiveness, let's get some attractive men and let's watch them have sex

and see if it does anything for us. Like literally this is something that I have done. And I watched it and was, because here, okay, backing up a little bit, as it, we're gonna talk about porn in a second, but my experience with porn had always been, oh, I'm into watching two women have sex with each other. That's the porn that I like.

I don't wanna, let's not see that penis. Okay, yeah. And again, I was like, is that, is this something repressed? Like why do I have a problem with a penis? Like, am I afraid that I'm gonna see a penis and be like, I want that penis. And so this was like a personal exploration into this for myself. And when I watched it, I was like a personal exploration into this for myself.

And when I watched it, I was like, this is interesting. Those guys look better than I do, but I do not have a desire to be there. I do not have a desire to be one of them. I don't find myself being sexually turned on and wanting to be a part of this. You didn't bookmark it? I did not bookmark it.

And at this point in my life, I'm okay with seeing a penis, right? It's like, there's not like an aversion or I'm scared of seeing it, but it's like, as far as I know, I have plumbed the depths of myself and come back with, I'm attracted to women. Now, one of the things that I have learned about myself, and I haven't done a lot of research about this,

and I'm sorry if I get terms wrong, and this is always, you know, but I am attracted to trans women, right? So, when trans women are women, that makes sense that I would be attracted to women, right? So when trans women are women, that makes sense that I would be attracted to women, but a trans woman with a penis, so like I've already established how much I like vaginas and specifically vulvas.

I believe that it is almost like the universe. We've been down that road. I won't go down that road again. So yes, I prefer a penis. Freudian slip. I prefer, I prefer a penis. Freudian slip. I prefer a vagina over a penis. But the thing is, is I think that what I'm ultimately, like if I was, this isn't about to happen,

I'm in a happy relationship with my wife, but let's just say I wasn't, and there was someone who was a trans woman that I was attracted to, because I think I'm attracted to sort of feminine traits and the feminine presentation of someone. And I was like, man, I'm attracted to this person sexually and we get along or whatever.

And then I found out, oh, she has a penis. I'd be like, well, I don't like a penis as much as a vagina, but would this be the end of the world? And this would be something that, it necessarily a showstopper? I don't, honestly, I don't know. I kind of think I would miss, I would really miss the vagina,

but it's not that the, it's not really the penis that's the issue for me. It's the fact that I'm just not attracted to men. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was just trying to think of like my own experience because I just haven't thought about this stuff. It's like, I just haven't been

as specifically curious about it. So it's, again, it's like, for me, it's like this, I haven't observed those desires welling up or the curiosity to find out or like feel like, observe those desires welling up or the curiosity to find out or like feel like, am I suppressing anything? It's like, I just, you know, it doesn't, I'm very happy and I'm not, I just haven't found myself being curious

about whether I'm suppressing anything, but I feel pretty damn sure that I'm not because I value being very open with myself and plumbing the depths of what's in me. Yeah, and well, so I guess all that to say- But I get all that and I think it's cool, man. I guess all that to say that we've never experimented with each other

and we haven't thought about it. I think, you know, and I don't, I don't know what this is gonna do for the, for the people out there who just, I will say, and again, I'm actually, I'm not offended and I'm not hurt by it, but I will say that in general, the idea of insisting and assuming someone's sexual orientation

despite what they say, like that's not cool. No, it's not. So, because think, switch that around and be like, you got somebody who's telling you that they're gay and you're like, no, you're not, you're not gay. You're straight, I know you're straight. It's like that, you think about it like that, that's not a cool thing to do.

Individuals assert their own sexuality. You don't assert someone else's sexuality. Again, I know we're public figures and it's fun for some people. Don't stop writing the fan fiction if you don't wanna stop it. But just, I wouldn't make a habit of asserting or assuming someone's sexuality

if they are telling you something else. That's a not cool thing to do. I think one of my journeys that maybe can be observed, I believe it can be observed online that you described that I also wanted to weigh in on was, yeah, coming from where we came from in like our fundamentalist beliefs about being gay, being wrong, and so I was unwilling to make any jokes about that

or to flirt with any humor around that area between the two of us. And once I became very accepting and removed that judgment from my own life and mind, and that made me more secure in who I am and saying, I'm not afraid if somebody thinks that I'm gay or we're gay, because it's not anything to be embarrassed about.

And that was a shift that, that was a journey where I had to get to that point. And I'm very glad I got to that point. A byproduct of it was that then we could explore that relational tension for humor. That if people are assuming these things or if we're as close as we are, like us exploring the tension for comedy is funny

because there's no stakes. If people think that we're gay, that's who cares? So what? Is what I've thought. So it's again, it's another freedom of like, we can have fun in that area as well when it comes to comedy. But we also don't, and again,

I'm not super schooled on this, but like we don't wanna get into queer baiting as well. Right? I know queer baiting can mean a couple of different things. I've heard it defined a couple of different ways, but ultimately we don't wanna use someone's assumption that we're gay to get you to click on something. But like we will play around with the,

like we know that like two straight dudes doing gay things like, or gayish things like when the Kanye and Kim video on the motorcycle and then with Seth Rogen and James Franco like did their thing. There's a reason, and comedy duos have done this for years. It's like straight comedy duos have done gayish type things for comedy.

And I haven't really thought about that too much and explored that, but I don't wanna get into a place where we're like, oh, the fact that you think we're gay, we're trying to capitalize on that. No, ironically, we're comfortable, you know, being, I just don't even know how to characterize it because it's kind of instinctual, but it was something that's like,

because we celebrate the validity of being gay, or, and then other things as well now, right? All of it. I accept the validity of all of it, that then it gives me a freedom to say, I don't need to try to act like I'm afraid that you're gonna think I'm something. No, we can just have fun with this

because it's just part of, it's an aspect of humanity. So it's just more, it's freedom, but we are never making fun of a sexual orientation. We're making fun of two, if we're doing that, like when we cuddle, the reason that seems funny to us is that, well, we don't cuddle, right? So when two guys who don't cuddle do cuddle, the awkwardness is funny, right?

Right. We don't think about it much more than that. Yeah. So hopefully that answers that question. Do with that what you will. Last question from Sextemberburneraccount. Someone who created a burner account for this question. Since y'all have talked about porn a lot

in terms of growing up, how do you feel about porn now, especially with the gradual destigmatization. Destigmatization. Destigmatization of sex work and usage of things like OnlyFans. Great question. There's a lot that like I personally haven't given too much thought.

This is still something that's evolving for me and it's not something that I've generated a lot of energy towards like figuring out like my stance. So I just wanna go ahead and say that upfront. I do think that comes from being steeped in teaching that is like fear porn period. Like stay as far away from porn as you can. It is dangerous.

Like the only messages that I got related to porn were negative. Right. And so even to this point, I haven't been really motivated to explore the positive and empowering aspect of porn because I personally, I just haven't been motivated to do that because I still, I've been steeped in this.

I know that you can, it can be addictive and that it can serve an unhealthy role in your life, especially when it relates to like your sex life with your partner and it can impact that in a negative way. So I'm like, I don't find myself being really motivated to figure out how to like really come to grips with porn personally because I wanna devote my energies more to like cultivating my relationship with Christy. because I want to devote my energies more

to like cultivating my relationship with Christy. And everything that we've been presented with within the church has only been negative. And when they would talk about it, it would be about the addiction. And you would have guys who would talk about it publicly, but they would talk about it within the context of a former addiction that they have been released from and now are protect,

been currently being protected from and protecting themselves from. And a lot of our accountability, you would have somebody who was like your accountability partner, or we were accountable to each other. Like if you looked at porn, it was bad. This was like the number one thing

that Christian dudes are like confessing to each other. Yeah. Is, oh, I looked at porn, it was bad. This was like the number one thing that Christian dudes are like confessing to each other. Yeah. Is, oh, I looked at porn again. It became a very heated fixation. Yeah. To stay away from it, like masturbation, but it was even more obvious and felt like very deadly. But I have this sneaking suspicion

that you can't just apply those principles as a blanket statement. I mean, it's just like the vilification of alcohol. It's like saying that you can't consume alcohol at all because you will be addicted. Well, everybody is not addicted to alcohol. Everybody's not addicted to gambling. I think this is a really good analogy.

But I don't wanna, so I have this, I am open to that also being true of pornography. Well, that's one of the beautiful things about abandoning a worldview. It's not easy, it was tough. It was the toughest thing I've ever done, but the sort of being able to examine something new in a new light and on its own face. And I think that I have thought a little bit about this

and I've not extensively and I haven't like read a whole lot about it and I don't have a lot of research, but I kind of see this as there's three aspects of this. There's the nature of porn itself. And then there's your personal relationship with porn and then there's porn as it relates to your relationship with your significant other. So the first aspect, I'm not gonna talk a whole lot about, but I do think that there's an ethical porn movement

right now and more and more people are being sort of, because traditionally there was a lot of people involved in porn who were kind of being coerced. There was people who were sex trafficked and then brought into porn. I don't know what the statistics are, but I know that there was an unhealthy environment and maybe I say continues to be an unhealthy environment

and maybe some, not a lot of consent involved and some coercion, but we are kind of moving into a place where there's more of sort of a personally empowered, whether that be like cam girls or OnlyFans or that kind of thing where it's just like, hey, I'm a sex worker, I'm presenting myself in a pornographic way to my fans. No one's forcing me into this, I'm doing it.

I am in control. I am in control. So I think that I'm all for ethical porn and how that's parsed is not something I'm an expert in, but I would say that I do believe that when it comes to issues of health, again, it's a health framework, not a moral framework for me. And so is there a way for somebody to be a sex worker

in that way in a healthy way? I think yes. And is there a way, so if you're watching porn, that is, you can make choices that will support empowerment or support the negative aspects of the industry, which is, and I don't know how much of that, but I think, again, I don't know how much is bad. But you can make an ethical investigation

and then make a decision where you consume your porn that supports a healthy industry. But the thing that's more interesting to me is your personal relationship with porn and then your relationship as it is in the context of a relationship. You probably have to pay for that porn, I'm assuming. Like, I don't know. Maybe.

I don't know. Well, yeah, well, yeah, like OnlyFans or whatever, yeah. So this is sort of, again, this is sort of an evidence-based approach to this and not coming from the evangelical mindset. One thing I do know for a fact is that the access that we have to sexually explicit images, videos, experiences that we can visually interact with,

or maybe even interact with in like a VR setting, like we can have a sensory experience. It's not something that our brains adapted to be able to handle. Our brains and our bodies evolved in the context of, you know, again, this is Stone Age hardware and then we've got this, the modern day software that's running on them.

And I think that your brain is not really equipped to see 500 vaginas over the course of a week. Okay? Now, I think- In one video? Well, there's probably one. There's probably an orgy video with 500 people. I don't know what the record is. But I do think that there is something to the idea

that extreme visual sexual experience and sort of sensory experience, I don't know if we've quite figured out the impact that that is having on us culturally, right? And it's having on us as people. There are plenty of people who will say that, listen, yes, you can get addicted to this. Yes, you can replace a healthy sexual interaction in person

with a online only sexual relationship. And, but there's also things like expectations for your partner. If I'm having sex with my wife, but I am experiencing sexual, having sexual experiences with all these other women out there and basically anything that I could ever possibly imagine, for me personally, it's kind of impossible

for me not to carry some expectations into my relationship with Jesse, right? So does that mean that porn is completely off limits for me? No. Does it mean that I'm gonna look at it whenever I want, whenever I get the urge? No, because I do believe that that, I don't think that's gonna have a great effect

on me personally. So kind of where I stand on the issue in terms of like how I interact with it is just like, have I sworn off porn altogether? No. If I am gonna look, can I look at it by myself in the context of my marriage with Jessie? Yes. Can she look at it by myself in the context of my marriage with Jessie? Yes.

Can she look at it by herself in the context of our marriage? Yes, she can. But is it something that is gonna be a regular thing that replaces my sexual interaction with Jessie? No, because I have a limited amount of sexual energy. I mean, I like to think of myself as having a lot of sexual energy, but I have a limited amount of sexual energy. I mean, I like to think of myself as having a lot of sexual energy, but I have a limited amount of sexual energy.

And am I gonna be devoting that to myself and this sort of intimate experience with someone on a screen when I have someone who, oh, this could be something, this energy is something I could devote and direct towards Jessie. So you gotta be careful about that. Yeah. At least I do.

That makes sense to me. Like the alcohol example. There's lots of things like as a responsible, autonomous person, I gotta figure out what is a healthy relationship with all types of things that can be very unhealthy and addictive. And I think it's interesting, we came up in a different time where

we had basically been through puberty and were almost sexually active, like getting married by the time like porn became this thing and definitely you could get it on your phone and you could see any kind of sexual act that you want to on your phone. Like that's a new thing. Our kids are coming up in the context of that.

Exactly. So we talk about that. Yeah, and it's a totally different conversation than we had. I'm not trying to attach shame to it, but I just want you to understand that like, if your only sexual outlet is porn, I do think it's a generational issue right now where there's just so many kids who are experiencing

their only sexual experience, it's not an interpersonal thing, it's a internet thing. And I just, I haven't done the research and I don't know all the stats, but my inclination is that that's not a good thing for us culturally, is that we need to be making connections with each other. But speaking of the connections with each other,

and is there a role for porn in the context of a healthy relationship? I think maybe, again, I think that this is based on consent and this is based on agreement between you and your partner. And I will say that on a few occasions, Jessie and I have experimented with like, what would it be like for us to look at porn together as we are about to, or as we are engaging in sex with each other.

And it's something we've done a couple of times, few times, and it's been pretty cool. And also most of the time, it's like, we've kind of like, it's been humorous as we've kind of like laughed because porn tends to be kind of funny, even when they're trying not to be. But it could be the kind of thing that's just like, hey, let's do what they're doing.

Oh, let's imitate what they're doing. To me, there's an element of it that's just like, it creates sort of an openness around the idea of sex and can be a fun addition to the sexual menu that you have with your partner, but it isn't the kind of thing that- It can inspire. Yeah, but again, that was a decision that we made

that I don't even know who brought it up. And I don't even remember, I think the time that it finally happened, it may have been, I don't wanna speak for Jesse. I don't remember how it happened, but it wasn't like me, like sitting around me, like when you wanna watch porn together, you wanna watch porn together, I don't wanna speak for Jessie. I don't remember how it happened, but it wasn't like me like sitting around me like, when you wanna watch porn together, you wanna watch porn together,

I wanna watch porn together with you. And I definitely don't use that voice ever with my wife. Gross. Yeah, it's not something that Christy and I have ever done because it's just something that hasn't come up. My main point about porn is that because you can interact with porn and have a fully self-contained sexual experience,

introducing that into a relationship, I believe you can run the risk of becoming dependent upon that and not having an experience with one another. Whether that means you're engaging in porn and masturbation apart from your partner and directing your sexual energy there, and so therefore you're not giving it to your partner or you're now together in experiencing porn,

but all your attention is being directed towards the screen versus the other person and something about the intimacy is broken. So I'm not saying I've got it figured out and that my way is better. Well, I think you've got it figured out for you. Well, I don't, well, I don't even know that. Me and Jessie may decide that like, we don't want that at all.

And the moment that she tells me, I'm not comfortable with this, I don't like this anymore, is the moment that I say, well, we don't do it anymore. Right. And so the conversations that we have, I hope inspire partners listening to have conversations, but more so than inspire people to do the things that we're doing or not doing.

Right, it's more about that communication. Like you said, like I don't want you to be like, well, now we gotta do this because you said that you did it. Right. It's about that, I mean, first of all, the question is about porn and I think we answered it that there is such a thing as ethical porn. We do think that there are pitfalls

when it comes to porn personally, and there are pitfalls when it comes to porn relationally, but also it can be an enhancement in a lot of ways. But it's complicated, it's complex, you can't paint it with a broad brush, it's individual, and it's also the consent aspect, both in terms of porn itself, like are the people who are doing these things,

are they consenting to the situation? But also in the context of your relationship, is there consent and understanding and communication? If you make sure you're on the right side of the issue when it comes to all those things, you'll just avoid so many pitfalls. We haven't even talked about parenting. I don't wanna go too deep into this,

but I do wanna acknowledge that as kids get older and they go through puberty, you find yourself having to deal with, okay, porn is such, it just emanates from everywhere. And so it can't just be, do not have anything to do with it, never see it. Well, because that's not gonna be successful. It's just not going to be successful.

You have to figure out a way to say, these are the dangers associated with it. You're not gonna be able to avoid it entirely, but you need to maintain your own power and not give that over to pornography. For me, that is, when I'm not just like saying it's bad and I don't want to be a part of it, but when I say, well, maybe there's aspects of it that are good

and I actually need to engage with it and process that, to me, that actually cuts down on my total consumption of it that are good and I actually need to engage with it and process that, to me, that actually cuts down on my total consumption of it because it makes me engage with it in a thoughtful way. Yes. And I think that, you know, if you just tell your kids it's wrong, they're gonna do it anyway. And they're gonna feel guilty

and they're never gonna talk to you about it. And they're gonna keep doing it and they're gonna potentially become reliant on it. Right. And I, yeah. could, that principle could apply in terms of like conversations with your partner as well. But back to the kids, I mean, yes, I put filters on my kids' internet so that they couldn't stumble on porn

or they couldn't get to it if they were curious and they wanted to. But at a certain age, you start to realize that they're gonna find a way to see it even if they can't see it on everything that you have control over in your house. Yeah. And so you have to go further.

You have to have these open conversations. When it starts with, I'm putting this thing on your computer and your phone that we use Kaspersky, Kids Safe app. And it worked really well, but that's to protect kids until they get to an age where it's like, now you're gonna see it and you gotta figure out how to deal with it and we gotta have that conversation. You just can't have a filter on,

make them have a filter for the rest of their lives. They're gonna have to make that decision for themselves. Yeah, and yeah, I think that that, I don't know. To me, it's one of the most exciting things. It requires more effort, honestly. Just like we were saying with Jesse and Christy, it was easier as an evangelical Christian to be like, here's the framework that has been figured out

and I'm gonna just put it down on you. And that's easier from a parenting standpoint. But the like, hey, let's actually engage with this. Like you're an individual, you have certain inclinations and you're a certain type of person. How will you interact with this thing? Whatever it might be. Yeah.

Can we have an ongoing conversation about that and what's healthy for you? It makes it different from kid to kid. The relationships and the opportunities, the inclinations are different from child to child. And it just becomes more involved and it takes more time. And it's more process oriented than it is sort of rule oriented.

But it's the only way I know to do it at this point. But yeah, that's porn. Okay, and that's our last question. So, I mean, do you have a rec? Cause I was gonna piggyback on that, but what's your rec? I have a rec that again, my recs tend to not be related to what we're talking about, which may or may not be satisfying. So if you have a rec that is related to what we're talking about, which may or may not be satisfying.

So if you have a rec that is related to what we're talking about, Yeah, I was gonna- Why don't you do that? I think I've rec this before. I'll save mine. Or said it. So yeah, I'm gonna recommend mypleasure.com.

Cause it gives you, it's an educational website where you can buy sex toys of all types and you can read from qualified people, including doctors, I believe, about how to use these things appropriately. And it's a great educational site that then if you wanna sidestep the pornography part of it, that's the principle of the site is that there's none of that.

So it separates porn from sex toys and it simplifies that equation so you can be educated and be adventurous. Yeah, because we didn't talk a lot about toys. I mean, we talked about toys incidentally, but we're both very big proponents of sex toys. I mean, again, when you've been married for 20 years, one of the ways that you continue to keep things spicy

is you introduce new things into the bedroom and that's part of one of the great things about growing old and learning about yourself and your partner, yeah, so I'm on board with my pleasure and I'll just do my other rec next week. Okay. In the meantime, we do wanna remind you about Good Mythical Evening. Again, we've been talking a lot about sex.

We're gonna talk about sex on Good Mythical Evening and we're gonna do a lot of other things. Adult stuff. It is the adult-themed ticketed live event on October 28th. You can get tickets at goodmythicalevening.com. It's if Good Mythical Morning were just, just all censorship removed.

Yeah, which is something we're not able to do on YouTube. And that's not something, we don't want to change what Good Mythical Morning is. But this'll be fun. But we wanna do something a little bit different just on Good Mythical Evening. Goodmythicalevening.com. Hashtag yourbiscuits, let us know as we wrapped up

Sextember what you think about it. And we'll talk at you next week.