Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - How We Get Past Creative Curveballs | Ear Biscuits Ep. 487

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Nick, you know who you are. In this episode, Rhett & Link give a runner the motivation he needs to keep going, we get a glimpse into ACL surgery, as well as a few updates and callbacks from earlier episodes. Plus, a thoughtful look into overcoming plans that don’t work out the way we intend. Leave us a voicemail at 1-888_EARPOD-1 for a chance to be featured on the show! Get a $75 job credit when you use Sponsored Jobs at https://indeed.com/ears To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is mythical. Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast, where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time. I'm Link. I'm Rhett, and this week at the roundtable of dim lighting, two guys have t-shirts with nothing on them. Mine is black and my best friends is tan. we didn't work this out ahead of time this kind of thing just happens when you are in the same line

on the same page we're not going to get mad we're not going to rage we're just going to cough and we're just going to talk we're going to answer some questions we're going to have some sessions of some answers and we're gone I just took an Advil

for my headache and my t-shirt is to He's still tan as can be. Yeah. His is so black that it looks like his torso is not even there, but that's okay because his head is floating. I'm like a magician.

Like a magician. A new age magician who only wears a black t-shirt. Yeah. Or an approachable pastor. You think of like an approachable pastor? Every time, let me just, let me just, pick a little bone here. Every time I talk about anything passionately or seriously, you know what I get? You know what I get? Blowback. I get people telling me pastor energy. Oh, really? I was raised in the

church. What can I say? Pastor energy? He was raised in the church. Whenever you care about something. Yeah. I'm not trying to do that. Maybe I miss my calling. I think I'm feeling the release. I was trying to cheer you up because... Thank you for that. That helped. And, you know, we've had a long day. We've, we've had, we shot another video, we travel off-site. It was a special video.

I think it's out. It's out. It will have been out. This morning, we filmed, we went, we planned our funerals. We picked out our freaking caskets and urns. Like not. All of this stuff. The Hollywood Forever Cemetery, which is a great cemetery, you know, I don't rank cemeteries, typically.

But it's number one. But it's number one in our hearts. It's also the coolest cemetery to just walk around. It's crazy, the stuff they have on the headstones. Been there a few times. We went to movies, concerts. We talked about it on the show. We went to the Lord Huron concert there with the backdrop of all the mausoleums and whatnot.

And then you can watch, I watch the Adams Family Valley. I'll use movie there a couple of Halloweens ago. I watched seven there in the graveyard. So it's a cool spot. And dead people are buried there, and you can go and you can mourn. But there's still 13,000. Mickey Rooney. Available spots.

Burt Reynolds. Did you know that? That's a lot. Paul Rubens. Because they're adding more spots. There's places that they haven't buried anybody. And then they are, there's mausole. They just built this mausoleum.

A high rise. That's the, the US, the tallest mausoleum in the US. Super cool. And it's incredible, and we were on top of it. You see the Hollywood sign. It's beautiful. And they're gonna build it, I don't know if I should say this, they're gonna build another one.

You think they told us stuff that we can't repeat? Like, we... The camera wasn't rolling when we said that. Oh. And they said that. Anyway. Shout out to Jasmine, who is... The coolest mortician we've ever met.

The coolest mortician we ever met, except for our... our first girlfriend's parents. Mom and dad. Yeah. So anyway, it was for informational purposes, but also comedic purposes. We didn't actually sign anything or like spend money, but I learned a lot of things. Like, you can get a casket that is made completely out of mushrooms. They have it there.

Total mushroom casket. And then you just get buried. It is $3,000. And it gets, there's like a bed of moss that your body lays on. Naked on moss. It's beautiful. It's really cool. So I really liked that idea.

After we did that, because we shouldn't tell them everything, you could go watch it because this is a really good one. After we did that, we stopped. Well, it's an exclusive special over on the Mythical Society. Go to Mythical Society.com, if you're a second degree member. I don't even know. Don't say things that you don't know. Yeah, yeah. If you're something, you get to see most of it.

If you're something more, you get to see it more. If you're obligated or eligible. While we were there, we were talking to Damien, who is a production assistant on the project today, on the video today. And he said something about jerk chicken, like I give some jerk chicken. I want a jerk chicken, I love a jerk chicken. He was like, yeah, the taste of the Caribbean restaurant is right around the corner, right next to the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

And he's got a, he said, I have friends who, I don't know if he said they are Jamaican or they just really know Jamaican food, but it was one of two places in L.A. that has the best Jamaican food. So we were like, we're like, we're like, you know, they had our names on them. They were ready. You know, I always have food for you. We don't even have to make a decision. Always, like, satiated. We know we're going to have a lunch with a plastic lid on it because Jenna is going to see to that. And we're not complaining. We thank you for that. But we had to have a taste of the Caribbean.

Jerks chicken dust down the road. I call it Jerks chicken. Hey, it was when we were eating it. I'm into it right now. Well, we get there and we're like, we walk in the front door, and it's a ghost town. I was like, it looks close, but the door opened. So we went inside. It's not a soul inside.

Music playing, reggae music playing. TV's going. Boom, but a boom, boom, boom. But there was a couple of, hello, hello. No response. Nothing. Because not, we're not talking about no patrons. We're talking about no employees.

Nobody was there. You know that place is going to be good though. If that's the case, where the employees are just chilling. But eventually somebody decided they would return to the counter. And she was like, oh, surprised it seemed that somebody was there. And we sat down. We were like, it's one o'clock. We had a great meal of jerk chicken and the...

chicken and then roti, which is like the Jamaican curry. We, and what, you know what, I season stuff up. I throw a little plantain order in there as well. Yeah. And I, you know what I ended up doing? Eating all of it. I got the hot sauce that they sell there and got a bottle and took it home with me. I didn't steal it.

I added it to the bill. Well, we paid for that with the company card. So I get some of that, whenever I want it. Come and get it, sucker. Here's the thing. I didn't love the sauce. I did. I tried it.

The hot sauce was, it has the Scotch bonnet peppers in it and the mango. We sat across from each other and we both shared both dishes. We did. We made a complete mess on the table. Of the table. Spilled multiple things, tipped well. I don't know what the tortilla-like thing that roti comes in. I don't know, I don't care.

It's like a lentilized thing, but yeah. It's flakey, but not. It was awesome. And I think the one employee who was doing everything, it seems, she was like, she's super nice. I think she tried to make it seem like she wasn't the one back there cooking it. She was like, where y'all from and, you know, what part of town? And then she was like, well, you know, if you come back, you come back a little bit later. That's when the crowd's here.

Like, oh, okay. So apparently it's a late night crowd. She was like, the people watch the TVs and sports and. Jerk chicken is sports. I'm burping up with jerk chicken right now as I'm talking about it. Okay, blow it on me. Let me get another taste.

Oh, God. When you say it like that. Oh, man. Sorry. I don't want to hear that from anybody. It was good, though. I don't even want to hear that from a beautiful woman. I don't want to hear that from anybody.

It was good, though, wasn't it? It was. The jerk chicken had a side. The sides were... Beans and rice. Rice and beans mixed together. and rice, and I would say rice and beans, much more rice than beans. I'm just saying it the way they say it, beans and rice.

And then it was a cabbage vegetable medley. It was cabbage. Which I'm all for that. I just haven't been getting enough tastes of the Caribbean. But can I just, I will complain for a moment. There's too many bones in the meat. I'm spitting out bones left and right. Yeah, because it's like...

I knew this would have the first time we ate roti was when we went to Trinidad. We had goat rotting. And it had bones in it. So many bones were like, man, I want to just eat. I want to just take the meat, migrate it to the rice and beans, and just turn the shovel on. You can't do that with the bones. I know it makes it taste better, but it makes it harder to eat. The thing that I figured out how to do was to bite lightly, which is hard for me.

You know how aggressively I chew. But I was biting lightly, and when I'd hit a bone, I just, you know, I'd extend it to the front. You were doing great. great. I was watching you. Yeah. I didn't swallow a bone or any other parts that I had to get out of my mouth. We discussed that we thought that the bones contributed to the taste of it as it was stewed for long periods of time. It does 1,000 percent. So you're complaining, but we kind of derives that it was a good... I had this desire... They should have removed it before. It's too hard.

And they just, it was like a, it was like a breast of chicken and a little bit of a wing and they just like, whizam, and it's chopped it in half. Yeah, and then the stewed chicken is just a piece of chicken, just like a part of the chicken just kind of just stewed in there. I told you that I want to make jerk chicken pasta as, I have like a certain number of dishes that I like to make at scale to like give to other people.

A lot of people don't like jerk chicken, so I don't know, but I have this idea for like a jerk chicken pasta that I want to perfect. Okay. But I know that I want to do the white boy version of it because I wanted to just be chicken that has no bones in it that I can just shovel into my mouth and not worry about the dainty.

I think you need to pick the bones out after you've made it though because it's crucial. So I stewed the chicken in the spices and do it all that that way. And then I take the jerk chicken off of the bones and sort of shred it and then mix it with the peasant You make a pile of bones, which appropriately enough is what happens when you get cremated. Back to that.

We learned that the thing that they send you is a smoothied version of bones. It's ashes plus bones. It's not ashes. It's just bones. They delicately remove the bone remains after incinerating the entire piece. And then they take those bone remains And they smoothy Put them to bone grinder

Yeah, and that's what you got Anyway That was awesome And then we had Meetings And then and now we're here I mean End of the day

This is an end of the day thing So I thought I'd sing you a little song about our t-shirts And see if it perk you up a little bit And then you took it You took it right from me And you went and you sing about your shirt Full circle man We're back in

That's what I was hoping would happen. We're back at that. So now if we want to cut all of that out because it sucks. It's just a warm up. Jamie. None of that counts. This is where the podcast starts. The episode can really start hearing about T-shirts.

Anybody else got a headache? Let's hear a question. Hey, guys. It's Al from Boston. And I was just listening to, you know, I'm a little behind on the ear biscuits, but I was just listening to Red talking about how he was just how he was in Boston

and it's funny I think the most Boston thing happened to me while I was listening to that where I got defensive before you said anything I was like I was like

what the hell is this dude is going to talk shit about Boston and then you were talking about how you like Boston and I was like what he likes this piece of shit city so I think I don't know it's just kind of dawned on me.

I was like, you know, that's probably the most Boston thing that could ever happen. You're like, I love this city, but it also sucks. But yeah, see ya. That's, wow, that's good. And that's, that was- I love his accent. That was real, that's a real, that's a real person. He had to have a negative take regardless of the outcome.

That was, he knew that he had to stick to that. So Boston. I love that. See, that's one of the things that makes Boston so great. The negativity from the Bostonians. Did you pick up on some of that? No. When I was there on July 4th, it was all tourists.

All the time. I think all the locals were like, hell no, we're not going to be a part of this. Okay. But I'm sure, you know, the people in the restaurants, work in the restaurants, they were lovely. So I did run into some locals there, but no. And no one was rude. No one was rude.

Okay, good. I just want to acknowledge the voicemails are pouring in, giving support to Jenna for her knee. Jenna, you're having surgery in next Wednesday. Just... In about a week, yeah, yeah. In about a week, you're having the surgery. It's happening.

And then they're saying that the recovery is how long? Well, total, at least nine months. but how long till you walk? I will probably be able to put weight on it same day But I'll be in one of those Like braces where my knee has to stay straightened Like inflatable almost Like straightened it out, inflatable brace?

I don't know what the brace looks like yet But I know that they're going to give me one Okay That's not the one I have now that I bought off of lines for like $15. Off of line. I'm not going to give a specific place. How long until you can kick us in the ass again?

Well, I would have crutches. I would have crutches. I could hit you with the crutches. Yeah, she's going to goose us with the crutch with the crutch on me. Y'all walk it too fast. No opportunity to like run hog wild. Jenna's going to use the crutch on us. Okay, but yeah, play some of those voicemails

where everyone's just really telling Jenna how much they care about her. I do have I do have an ACO one That would be interesting Oh really? Yeah A lot of them are like

I was I totally put Jamie on the spot Because No but I have I do have one I was basically making a joke That no one did that Jenna

I'm about to say But last is Okay I will say this For the ear biscuit voicemail levers Short and succinct Would be great Okay

Because there was a few That were like 3 to 5 minutes. Yeah, people are really giving me advice. Yeah, it's great. But there is one. You feel the love, right? Even though we are not choosing to play any of that because they're way too long and gushing. I feel the love. Yeah, Jamie's sending them to me so I can still listen to all of them personally. So I, I really didn't want to hear them. If they weren't about me. We'll have heard it before my surgery and it is already appreciated.

Yeah. Yeah, so don't even look. Okay, but there is one, there is one if I find it, the, like, in-betweens, that is quite, it's short enough, and it's interesting. Okay. Is it the one you prefaced to me earlier? Yeah. Okay, go. That is a good note, though. I don't think we've ever made that note.

Yeah. But I think people have maybe taken. If it's long and meandering. You know they don't get that long, and we don't edit these down. It's like, you know. Right. Okay. So, as you're looking for that.

Oh, you know. Yeah. Oh, here we go. Stalled just long enough. Just long enough. Okay, this is great. Hi, this is Sydney. I heard that Jenna Torker ACL, that's terrible.

So sorry that happened to you, Jenna. And I personally don't have any experience with this for myself, but my dog actually tore both of his ACLs. And what really was beneficial for him and his recovery was a very nice crate, you know, with a lot of blankets. So I would recommend getting one of those. You might need, like, a high-impact one because you kind of seem like a biter. Someone, you know, might tear up their enclosure.

You know, and if you're going to be pretty anxious with all that crate rest, I would recommend some tracidone from your vet, I mean your doctor. And, yeah, that's pretty much all that I did for my dog. He is doing great now, and he runs as fast as they used to. So, yeah, hopefully, you know, if you do all those things, you will be able to get back on your feet. Thanks, guys. Okay. She's a bider.

I am a bider. Watch out for the chomper's. I wouldn't have known that a dog could break its ACLs, although, of course, he can't. because it's a mammal that's got him. But Jacob's dog. That's right. Tor or C-O-O. Poor Riley.

Riley tore her, ACL? I didn't know it was an ACL. It was something like a knee replacement or something. Yeah, I know Jacob had tore his ACL. No, no. I was like, are you risking him with his dog? No, the dog. The dog, I swear this happened.

There was a big surgery on one and then on the. The other leg. Yeah. Uh-huh. I knew it was something with her leg. I didn't know what it was, but that's great. But yeah, I actually have been making sure my crate is exactly how I want it so that I don't go absolutely insane. And the doctor will give me some good medicine so I don't lose my mind being.

But yeah, I've been nesting. I've been making my home very friendly to my needs. To hunkering down. Hunkering down and elevating. Adding a chair in the shower, you know, the good stuff. Okay, so we'll keep you posted. Thanks for all your support for encouragement for Jenna because, you know, of course we're doing that too, but, you know, it means something different coming from you. Yeah, maybe I'll send another voice memo to you all like the last time I had surgery.

And you won't save it again. A little bit spooky. None of us will save it again. Yeah. This time. This time. We'll save it this time. All right.

Liz here, another one. Hey, Red and Link. This is Nick calling from Los Angeles, California. So I was wondering if you guys could help me out with something. I'm a runner, and I usually listen to your podcast right when it comes out, first thing Monday morning. And that also happens to be when I'm doing one of my hardest running workouts of the week. And so I was wondering if you guys could maybe give me your best motivational speech

to help me through my next run. And also maybe talk a little bit more. broadly about some of the things that motivate you guys to do what you guys do. Thanks so much. You really appreciate it. Okay. Ready? Yeah.

Three, two, one. I don't know. I don't get it, man. I don't understand what you're doing when you're running, man. I just, it's never been something that I've done. I am almost jealous of you that you're doing it right now. It's completely foreign to me. you running is like me going to space.

I just, you know, I don't really have a point of reference for it. And if I'm going to do it, I better be drunk. Is this turning into a Good Mythical Evening Promotion? Yes. Hold on, you can't do that. What? October 23rd. Hold on, Nick's motivational speech is going to be an ad?

Yes. Make sure, Nick, you buy a ticket to Good Mythical evening on October 23rd. It starts at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Pacific. It's completely unpredictable what's gonna happen, just like running, because anything can happen when you're running. Nick. All right, Nick. We can start over. I'm sorry, Nick.

I turn it into an ad. We'll start over. Nick, it's Rhett. Nick, it's Rhett? All right, start over. Three, right, two, one. Nick, take everything that my friend's and just said, and forget about it for a moment.

I mean, we do want you to be a part of Good Mythical Evening, but that's not really what this is about. This is about you. Three, two, one, go. This is about you. This is about the journey ahead of you. You are running in Los Angeles. The reality is, if you slow down right now,

something bad could happen to you. I don't know what part of town you're in, but these days it can happen anywhere. And I'm just saying, just like, You need to keep running. You need to, we should be almost at a sprint at this point. You should be looking over both shoulders. You're talking about the coyotes?

We got, we got wildlife, we got to worry about. We got unsavory characters we might have to worry about. We want you to stay strong. Do not stop, no matter how bad the cramps get, do not stop and bend over and try to catch your breath because that, Nick, is when you are vulnerable. Don't pull your pants down. Is that what you're getting at?

Hey, one foot in front of the other. Look, keep your eyes to the horizon. That way you won't get seasick, you know? Uh-huh, uh-huh. What's that thing? Shins splints? Enjoy it. Side cramps, embrace it.

Eyes watering, uncontrollable weeping, it's all part of it. Nick, if the 78-year-old version of yourself could look back right now, snap his fingers, and suddenly enter into your young, healthy body that is running the mean streets of Los Angeles, he would be so happy. He would say, I'm going to take a deep breath of this smog, and I'm going to be grateful for it, okay? And I'm going to keep running and, like, feel how it feels. I mean, it hurts a little bit, but it's a good hurt. And the fact that I can do this right now,

your nipples chafing against your... Yes, the rash that is forming in between my legs. This is what my older self would want for me right now. And I'm doing it. I'm doing it. Don't look over your shoulder. Keep going. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

I'm setting the pace to go. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Stop. No, don't stop. Just kidding. Okay, Nick, I hope that did something for you. Yeah. How do you, you do some...

I don't want to talk about running. Yeah, but you do some biking. You do some biking, and you have to stay motivated, right? You got to make sure your bike is charged. You got to make sure your bike has a charge. I'm not talking about my e-bike publicly because... Oh, you're not? Well, too late.

I did. It's a little bit of shame. A little bit of shame there. You haven't taught about this publicly? No. Wow. Because I don't want my biking buddy to find out. We haven't biked together in like over a year.

His name is Nick as well. Yeah. Hold on if that was him. Didn't sound like him. No, it wasn't him. Hold on. I haven't told Nick about your e-bike. I haven't been able to tell him.

Well, Nick. No. Don't you do it. You know who you are. Don't you do it. I just haven't. I've been too embarrassed. Nick, you know who you.

you are, Link's biking buddy. We talked about not doing it before turning like 60 or maybe 50 or something. Well, you're pretty close. You're telling you round it up. I definitely round it up. Yeah. But that keeps you motivated, right?

Because you just, I mean, you tell me all the time, I mean, the thing is is that I don't ride, I mean, I know how to ride a bike, but I do not regularly ride a bike. But you tell me about all the places you go, and I'm just like, it's awesome. That seems like a better deal than I'm had to pedal yourself there.

Oh, yeah. It's a mountaintop experience, literally. But isn't, you're still peddling. I'm going to work out. Is there ever a moment and you're like, I need to stay motivated? Or you, like, that's out of the equation. Okay.

So, okay. Well, what do you do that requires motivation? I just find that. And then tell us how you stay motivated. Why is that a question? He asked the question. You don't listen, man. Oh, the second part of the question.

Yes, the original Nick. Yeah, I was choosing to ignore that part of the question. I heard both questions and I'm answering the second one. What do we choose? How do we stay motivated? What do you do? I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't think I don't. I don't stay motivated.

Nick, that's the answer. We do not, we are not motivated. I'm not, I'm really, like extremely unmotivated. I'm just kind of like very even keel when it comes to motivation. I'm just vated. You know, I'm not mo or less vated. You're right about a vated.

I'm just, just evenly vated. Like, it's kind of like an autopilot. I think that's almost a really good joke. My rewrite of that would be, I'm not motivated, I'm tivated. Yeah. Because I'm not motivated. I'm not mo-o-o-less-tivated.

I'm just tivated. Right, there you. I'm just to be. That's what it should have been. That's the t-shirt. Yeah. That's the t-shirt. I'm not mo or less-tivated.

I'm just tevaded. Yeah, yeah. You know, make that work in the edit. I think you had to say, the t-shirt would say, I'm not motivated. I'm not less-devated. Because you have to see motivated altogether, because then people won't know what you...

If you say, I'm not mo or less-devaded, be like, what the hell any language is this guy talking. Um... But really, I don't, you know, I think that, uh... I just, I fall back on routine. I think that's my answer. I don't do a whole lot where I don't do a whole lot where I have to like dig super deep to keep going

because most everything, I work hard, but it's almost always something I want to be doing. We're blessed in that way, hashtag. Um, but I do like cardio workouts, where I'm like, I don't want to keep doing this, but I watch a YouTube video at the same time about something completely unrelated.

That's how I stay motivated. You watch Talking Head YouTube videos while working out. If I start listening to music, I get less debated. My thing is... That's interesting. It's like, because music while I'm working out, feels like I'm trying to psych myself into like energy that's not actually there, like, yes, yes, yes.

And I'm like, I get bored really quickly with that happening in my brain. Okay. And I would just much rather listen to someone talk about some concept and just be like, separate from that happening, my body is just doing something. Uh-huh. Your brain is somewhere else.

My brain is somewhere else. And so my brain, if I'm listening to music, You know what my brain starts thinking about? Damn, this is hard. I got to listen to that beat, keep going. It's like that, I don't like that. I want to be distracted from the pain and just have it set in.

I guess I understand that. Like, if I was doing a long climb on a manual mountain bike, you know, which I still try to do occasionally, but maybe only once since I've got my other bike. You still have your other bike. I'll listen to a podcast, if it's like a 45-minute climb,

I'll listen to a podcast on the way up, and then when I turn around to come back down, I switch to music. Oh, music on the way down. Music on the way down. Interesting. Podcast on the way up because I'm just grinding away in granny gear,

and I like having a distraction. So same principle. So it is a similar principle. But like working out in your garage, listening to a podcast, it feels a little strange. I wonder how many people listen to a podcast when they go to the gym.

Oh, I think it's probably a lot at this point. Like, I don't know what the percentage breakdown is, but I think if you are popping people's earbuds off at Equinox, I think it's 50-50. I mean, we got... Got our boy, Nick, is he still running to us? You're still running, Nick? Keep running. Yeah, you're still running.

We're right behind you. So, I mean, perfect example, yeah. whole, this whole thing is premised on the fact that Nick listens to this podcast while running. Well, there's your answer, Nick. Next. Hey, Red and Link. This is Victor calling back. Rhett, I really appreciate you accepting my apology.

Hold on. Thanks for sticking up for me. You've got to refresh our memory. So we had a caller named Victor who was apologizing to Rhett about the taking the picture. uh on the beach the beach man the beach man when he had COVID now followed up on your acceptance of said apology i love this now we're in a conversation okay so roll that back a little bit let's hear hey red and link this is victor calling back um ret i really appreciate you accepting my apology link thanks for sticking up for me um i did look into it i'm too

0.1% Bosnian on 23Mee, so we're good. Also, Rhett, I don't remember you explicitly saying that you had COVID, but that doesn't change the fact that I was an ass on the interwebs. So I think we're good now. All right, love you guys. Bye. I don't know if we're good, Vic. I don't know if we're good now.

Yeah, because he kind of like, now he accepted. Your apology, but then he's now adding something where it's like you were lying. You were stretching the truth. Well, no, I was misremembering if that's the case. Or he was. He seemed to put it all on you though. Why wasn't it equally potentially misremembered

by both of you? So the beef is back on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna have to fight now. We're gonna have to fight now, Victor. So, okay, I'm trying to, I mean, I cannot remember. So I'm trying to go back to a time that I can't remember

to pontificate about what might have happened. Maybe I knew that I had COVID, but I did not want to say it because it was still that time when you were like, I don't want to tell somebody I got it, because I don't want him to get unnecessarily scared. I'm outside, it's probably not a big of a deal, but I don't want to get too close.

And then the middle ground ended up making me seem like a jerk. But I feel like I would have said that the first time I told the story. I don't even remember when you accepted you accepted his apology. So how am I supposed to remember? I wasn't even there for the other thing. You remember the episode not too long ago

where I was correcting myself about Bosnia. I remember something about Bosnia. Well, I mischaracterized the war in Croatia. Yes. And I ended up apologizing to Bosnians everywhere. Yeah, the apology episode. I expanded that to Brian Bosworth and other people who had Bosworths.

It was great. Bosnian things in their name. That's what he's talking about. Okay. Next voice now. I mean, I just say, you know, one in one ear and out of the other, I just want to make sure some stuff stays around because he might call back. Yeah, yeah, now that the beast's back on.

Hi, Rent and Link. My name's Emma. I'm from Utah. My story takes place about seven years ago. My then-boyfriend, but now husband, was just going through a really hard time, struggling with money, family, living situation, etc. and he was working mowing lawns. And during one of his shifts, he lost his key fob.

And so it was just in some lawn, no way of finding it awful. And he's not big on accepting help. And so what I did is the following day I typed out versus writing, so he couldn't recognize my handwriting, his letter saying, I'm an anonymous neighbor, I saw you lost your car key, here's some money to replace it, I wanted to help. and I included that letter with some money on his car on his car the next day. Now, seven years later, I still have not told him, but he and his family used this

moment as like a huge thing. Like there is a higher power, the world will repay us, there is humanity, like people are good, you get good coming back to you sort of thing. Like his mom talks about this in large groups in like a very spiritual way. and I still haven't told him because I don't know what this will do like this is one of his core beliefs that like the world is good

will this destroy everything let me know your thoughts thanks for your content bye hopefully he doesn't listen to this podcast yeah let's assume he doesn't because why would you the question doesn't answer itself

I feel like here's my take at this point if there's anything that can make you feel better about the world even if it's not true maybe for now it's okay now's not the time to start now it's not the time to take somebody's joy away

you know what I mean truth is important not as important as I would hope that our nation would consider it to be but it is important I think that we will get back there at some point truth will win out in the end in the meantime tell your

yourself some lies to get through it. I don't think that this instance is the only reason that he and his entire family believe that something carmic, you know, if good will come back to you. Is it all based on this one thing, or is it just the nice anecdote that they use? And was it such a significant thing? I feel like maybe I missed an important part of that.

They've retold the story for years. How did the person, the person that she was pretending to be in this fictitious scenario who found, who knew, how did she know? Didn't, didn't say enough. Because of the universe had told her? Is that? No, I don't. It was a neighbor.

A neighbor thing. And I heard you lost your key. Heard where? Well, maybe she was like walking past a lawn or something. A nosy neighbor saw it. If I hear people talking out, I go on my balcony and I'm like, what they're talking about? It's neighbor, neighbor hearsay.

I feel like I'd be going door to door and being like, I just wanted to say thank you. No, if somebody does something anonymously, leave it lay. Leave it lay. But the, I mean, you did something anonymously that was good. Does that, I guess it takes some of the meaning away that someone that he didn't know that well or at all was so generous? What about someone that he knew and was dating that he ended up marrying did it?

Well, but that's not super supernatural. But it wasn't super, he didn't believe it was supernatural. I mean, I know that they put, it sounds like. She said that they would put spiritual weight on it, but it was, it didn't, the story wasn't told as if it was a miracle. But it was a, like Jenna said, it was a neighbor. I'm a neighbor and I heard, you know, so it's not like, you know, debunking a miracle.

We're all going to be okay because a neighbor helped me in a time of me. Yeah, people do good things. And if you're good, good things will come back to you. It might have been the, the, uh, that's something to believe in. That's something to believe in. I mean, you've got to be careful. Seven years in, I know you've had big fights, but this is one of those things that might come out in a heat of passion.

I was the one with the key fob. Yeah. It was my money. It was my letter. It was my typewriter. The world is horrible still. To believe that the world is good, I am good. Right.

My theory, they keep bringing it up around her because they know it was her and they want her to admit it. Seven years of just baiting her to come clean. Is she ever going to say anything about this? I will say, you talk about wanting to believe the world is a better place. I have found myself in these corners of YouTube. I watch a lot of YouTube almost exclusively in the morning while working up. That's what I've heard, right?

And I realize that too many of my videos are just people talking about this informational stuff that sometimes I'm like, it's not the first thing I want to put it into my brain when I wake up. I don't want to be like I wake up and go to class and work out at the same time. Like sometimes it's a little too much education, right? Okay. And boy, I wish I could remember the name of some of these channels. but there somehow I watched one video that was like there are multiple channels that do something where it'll just be like a profile of an older person like a beautifully shot little vignette

I have to look this up a beautifully shot little vignette of like an old person who lives alone and writes poetry and it's like it'll just be like this person's going to we're going to spend a day with this person and they're going to like talk about what they've learned in their life. So it's not self-produced. No, it's a channel where they... At least one of them is a channel

and I'm going to find one of these channels because I know I'll subscribe to them. I know I subscribe to them. Let's see. How do you go to your subscriptions? Your subscriptions. So, let's see what we got here. I don't really know how to use YouTube.

I've only been doing it. been doing it for... As long as this existed. Because they don't put them out as often. You know what I'm saying? Like, I bet you if I just go to home, there'll be something that's suggested in this because I'm getting these things suggested to me at this point.

But it'll just be like a person, like an older person. Okay, this is one. I don't know who makes this. It's just a channel called Reflections of Life. Million subscribers. and like each video is just like

how I live simply at 80 years old the beauty of less what we gain when we stop chasing more 800,000 views you know 12 minutes 15 minutes long becoming myself it took me 80 years life lessons I wish I knew earlier

like it's just not always old people but a lot of times it is an old person and it's just through everything I'm still me and it's just this nice good huge just being like, I'm just going to tell you about some things that I've learned. And again, it's like, it's very well done.

Huh. And there's multiple channels that do stuff like this. Reflections of life. Reflections of life is one of them. Okay. And I have found myself just being like, you know what I'm going to do? Because they're like 20 minutes or whatever. Sometimes all I do is go down and just do a little like stretching and mobility if it's all I got time for.

I'm be like, I'm not going to listen to this. some guy talk about some information. I'm definitely not going to, like, check in on the news. God forbid I would do that. I'm going to, like, listen to an old person talk about what they've learned. And it's just like, the music is good. It's very, very good.

So I found myself going to that place. I don't know how I got here. We were answering a question. Doesn't matter. Nick, you're still running? I know you're not going to build to tell me how we got there. Keep running. Keep running.

But you know how I got there. here. I recommend it. Did we answer that question? Yes. Okay, good. Next voice, man. Hey, Rhett and Link, it's Nathan. I'm not sure if you'll remember me, but about eight years ago, I was on Good Mythical

for my Make-A-Wish. The episode was titled, Toothpaste and Teethon. tarantula smoothies. So I just called to see how you guys were doing, let you know an update on how I'm doing, been cancer-free for about four or five years now, and live in life. Graduate in December from Grand Valley State University here in Michigan with a bachelor's and legal studies. So I plan to go into corporate compliance if mythical ever needs anybody on the legal team.

Hey. But yeah, I just called to see how you all were doing. We're doing good. I mean, Nathan, right? Neither one of us have cancer, which is great. That's right. And I'm glad you don't either anymore. Yeah, I mean, it feels great to get an update.

We love having make-a-wish recipients come through on Good Mythical Mall. It's a highlight, man. And, yeah, a lot of people find it's, it's, there's a misconception. that if you get to make a wish that it is terminal. Right, that's what we thought. That's not necessarily the case. It is sometimes. It is sometimes.

And we've been honored to have, you know, wish recipients come through who that was their wish was to hang out with us. But it's great to get this update. You're going to be a, you're going into corporate law. Compliance, man. People got to comply. People got to comply. Corporations.

Corporations have to comply. Yeah. People. Corporations are people, Jenna. Didn't you see that Supreme Court decision? Wow. Corporations are people. How dare I.

Which reminds me another thing. Let's just, we're gonna do a little bit rabbit trails. Because I told you about this, this book I was reading, is a river alive? Yeah. And it's by the same guy who wrote Underland. which i can't remember his name right now i don't want to robert something i think but um both great books but is a river alive is about the movement of environmentalists especially in like indigenous environmentalists in certain areas of the world uh who have like um indigenous religious

views like animistic views where like the river was alive not just the river was a culmination of a combination of a bunch of things that are alive and just water that flows or whatever, like a very technical, like Western definition. Yeah. But it's the sort of the legal push to get a body of water to be considered a person. And it's kind of under the auspices of, or the logic is, well, if we could do that with a corporation, which is, corporation is not a person, a corporation is a concept, but the corporation gets to do things and gains rights

because it's considered a person and a lot of times those rights are not great for people you know what happens is if we can get a river to be considered alive and have its own rights then you can't just willy-nilly damn it up

and do other things and pollute it and all this stuff it's a fascinating book and just thinking about that concept is a river alive I think that's the name of it if you search that it'll come up. Okay. I recommend it. You recommend it all types. It just kind of makes you think a little bit outside the box. Okay. Thank you so much for that update. That's very heartwarming and encouraging.

Hi, Renton Link. My name is Eva from Philadelphia. I've been listening to Ear Biscuits forever. And I'm wondering how you do deal with things that work not going quite your way. I am a creative worker, and I often struggle with projects not turning out the way that I had envisioned or making a mistake at work or something like that and keeping myself up at night about it. So I'm curious how you grasp those things and how you work through those things because your job is incredibly creative. And I think it's something that everyone deals with regardless of what their job is like. So thank you, and goodbye.

Thank you for the question. Very thoughtful. I don't know if it was a softball toss for us to discuss Wonderhole Season 2, but we will take that opportunity. What are you talking about, Link? We don't make mistakes. Before I do, I will say I agree with what you're saying that, like, whether it's a creative field or not,

I think when we look at all the different aspects of our job And the ones that on the surface are less creative, like the CEO hat that we wear in running our company. And it is a hat and there is just one and we share it. Business strategy and all that. We definitely experience this, the concept of like hindsight being 2020. Why didn't we, there's this temptation to beat ourselves up because something is so clear to us now.

and I know that happens in a business sense because you're when you're when you're making business decisions it tends to be very measurable and it's in it gets a lot more stark that if we would have done something differently then it would mean this in terms of very measurable numbers so I don't think we experience it across the board not just with our creative projects but I do think we experience it across the board not just with our creative projects but I do think that currently we are talking about the questions that are being answered associated with WonderHull Season 2. If you go back and listen to the episode, we devoted to that before it came out, I do seem to remember that there were a lot of open questions in the way that we had constructed it. I mean, and many of those were around not just how people. People who watch it will react to it, but also the experimental nature of the strategy to lean so hard into the titles and thumbnails being emulations of genres and seeing, if not, I'll say it, hoping that it would, the algorithm would cooperate with it and send it out to more people because it was in those genres. or appeared to be in those genres.

Now, at this point, I will say pretty much week over week, we've kind of lost a little momentum in the performance of Wonderhole Season 2, definitely across the first five episodes. And, you know, YouTube gives you all of this measurements on the back end that if you create, if you're the creator of the video, you can see, where does this video rank at this particular time from release when compared to all the other videos? Out of 10, out of the last nine videos. So 10 videos total.

Yeah. How is it performing against all those, the previous nine videos in the same amount of time? And that's where I'm saying that the momentum has gone down. Right. And that's information that we didn't know. And I'm tempted to say, well, or maybe I'm just being honest to say, it feels discouraging. Because, and then it, you know, there's a temptation to second guess the decision to do it. And then we start, and I start saying things in my brain like, well, we never would know unless we tried. and we wanted it to be seen by as many people as possible and we had reason to believe that it would work

but we'd only know by trying and by committing fully to it and I believe that we did commit fully to that strategy we can now know for certain the answer that we were seeking it's just not the one I'd hope for I agree So I think that there were two parts to it, right? There was the what were we trying to accomplish with it with season two and then what were we hoping to accomplish in terms of reach?

And those were two different things and they were a little bit, there was some overlap, but like we kind of saw them as two different paths. And I think that the lesson that we learned is that the marketing side of it, like the angle, like the assumption that if we title and thumbnail this in a certain way, the algorithm will respond and then we can sort of trick people into watching something. That just didn't work. And we can talk a little bit about like what we think we're learning

about that. Do it. Okay. Yeah. So, and this may seem. obvious, like when I say it, you'd be like, oh, of course. I think, broadly speaking, what we learned is that the algorithm is smarter than we thought it was, right? Because essentially what we did, as you know, is we took a viral genre, a video, title, and thumbnail, and based on season, the two episodes of season one that performed the best being very, one of them was episode one, which was very similar to existing, existing genre.

Most expensive flight. And then the red versus blue, 24 hours as red and blue, which was also not exactly a genre, not exactly the same title, but it was a genre, a video where you were two different colors. Those two episodes performed so much better

than the four other ones that were just completely original experimental ideas. So he said, well, let's just do that strategy for every single video. But what we ended up doing is we ended up picking

titles and thumbnails that performed well on YouTube as a whole and that get tens to hundreds of millions of views. But they're getting tens to hundreds of millions of views from children. Those genres are, right? And a lot of people think that kids watch our videos, but it's actually not true. Like, our number one demo is adults, like, by a long shot.

Like, 13 to 17 is, like, single-digit percentage for us, like 3% or something. like that. So what we did is we created a piece of bait, the click bait that draws in someone who actually just wants to see us do, wants to see the video that they clicked on and then the subversion of expectations to be like,

well it's something else, it's a story, it's like, well I don't want that and then what you end up doing is every click that you draw in outside of the fan base, you're immediately getting that person clicking off. And so the algorithm is seeing, oh, this isn't a result and watchtime, and so it doesn't serve it to more people, so it doesn't fall into the same stream as the videos that it's parodying, if that makes sense.

Which we knew as a possibility. Yeah, and I don't, I mean, we haven't looked at the retention, so I actually don't, you don't see like a huge drop-off at the moment that we take you down the wonder hole, that we switch from what you think this video is about. Of course, I haven't looked, I don't think there is that big of a drop-off. There's not a huge drop-off, so it is inconclusive.

But right from the beginning, I'm saying right at the very beginning of the video, even before we go down the Wonderhole, we're not 20-year-old twins doing it. Like, we're obviously like old guys. You know what I'm saying? But all of this, I mean, I don't think we have clarity, but you start to come up with explanations. And they're better, I mean, and you have this information. So when you're just explaining what did happen because it happened,

then it's different than guessing what's going to. Regardless of what the specifics are, because it could also be, well, the things that you guys are parading are not as popular as they were when you came up with it a year ago. They're two years too later. There's multiple, whatever the specific reasons are, the strategy didn't work. It didn't help, that's for sure. So it turns out that if we wanted to do,

because we could have been like, well, let's just do the things instead of doing scripted. Well, we were going to do a scripted video because that was the point of the project was to do scripted and then try to disguise it as non-scripted so it would get caught in the algorithm. In retrospect, if we had to just said, okay, you want to do a scripted series,

just do a scripted series, knowing that it's not going to go viral it's not going to get a million views per episode because that's just not what that doesn't really happen on YouTube and just be okay with that and then focus on what we were trying to do

which was develop the ability to kind of tell these kinds of stories yeah I mean I'm very proud of what we made the strategy didn't work so it's like you just you isolate those two things and I do think There's nothing, you know, not letting one thing taint the other thing.

The fact that I'm very proud of what the episodes are and the experience of making them was very positive and all of the things that we wanted to learn that we talked about in the other episode, we absolutely learn those things and will apply those things. us learning that the strategy didn't work informs our strategy moving forward but it's extremely but the most valuable thing we're taking forward is the craft stuff that's a part of the actual videos i think that's what i'm so grateful for because we have that now we're taking it forward but i do it i mean i think back to answering your question caller was, you know, once we started seeing that that was the trajectory of it, and we started to learn that this strategy wasn't working, it was even more of a reason to start to focus on what we were doing next. And I don't, you know, we had already made the decision before season two came

out that we weren't going to automatically follow it up with a season three. So because we had made the decision that we wanted to do something else specifically that we're not talking about yet, the next project, which we're very excited about. And we did that because that's what we want to do next. And we don't want to keep trying, even if, and we knew that even if the, if the, if the algorithm strategy worked, we didn't want to immediately find. follow it up and just capitalize on it and do more of it. Because from a creative standpoint, it wasn't the main thing we were trying to do.

That did make it easier to not hang so much on this thing and just say, it's going out there. This part of it is not really going to inform what we learn in the marketing strategy and all of that. We don't need to learn as much about that for our next project. Right. And it was nice that we were able to, that that was just a byproduct of us already planning what we're doing next. But I will say our, I think the way that we instinctively reacted to the subpar performance in our, was we put even more focus on the next thing. Well, here we're already on to the next, already on to the next. I think maybe almost to a fault.

Like in the last meeting we had with the team, the Wonderhold team, it was a meeting about the next project. But we called an audible and said, hey, let's take the first part, ended up being the first half of this meeting, and talk about how Wonderhole is doing. Because I don't know, you tell me, but I did feel like for me there was this temptation to not do that

and just let's not talk about something that could be frustrating or disappointing, the performance of this thing, the conversation that we're having now publicly we had with them in that team, the temptation was to just move on. And I think that I'm glad we didn't do that, even though the impulse was to do it. And I'm glad because you know, I don't want the team to feel like we were more disappointed than we actually are.

And I wanted them to know that we were just as disappointed as they are in the ways that we're justified and that it's part of the shared experience, just like the caller saying. Disappointment, when you're putting yourself out there with a creative endeavor or other ones, when you're taking risks and you're really investing yourself and your passions into something um disappointment could be around the next corner

you know and disappointment is a form of discovery so shunning it or ignoring it or just trying to like blast through that speed bump I don't know all the ways but I do believe that it It's healthier, first of all, it's healthier for your car to slow down to go over the speed bump. So I'll use that analogy.

And then I think you might be able to see a few other things that you can take forward on the rest of your journey. If you're not just trying to blow through it, you know, might hurt more. I don't know, the analogy falls apart. But I think ultimately, you actually learn more through failure than you do. through success. That's what they say. And, again, this is a, Wonderhole Season 2 is legitimately a mixed bag for me.

I'm not, I'm not saying this to try to save face. We've had many, many failures. The primary goal of Season 2 was to figure out how we performed, and I feel like there was a very significant jump in that part of the craft. And a lot of people noticed it and talked about it. and that felt good. The secondary thing was, you know, can we actually make it a relevant thing that people are talking about because it succeeds in numbers?

No, that didn't happen. And I think that the two questions that I would ask myself in anything is, what happened the way that I had hoped? Maybe that's nothing. Sometimes it might be nothing. but if it's anything how do I celebrate that and how do I recognize that and how do I have like patience and grace with myself and how can I encourage myself and other people who worked on this and so that's what we did we were like it connected in the way that we wanted it to connect from a story standpoint mission accomplished team us like a lot of a lot of credit due to us and the team for making that happen like we should celebrate that strategy miscalculation and that strategy came from us. Like we pushed hard to say like, let's make it a simple thing where we take these thumb,

so that didn't work. And like you said, we can't immediately take that and apply it to the next thing because the next thing doesn't, it's so different. But now we know that, right? Now we know, and honestly, it's something that we can take into every,

we do so much on this platform on YouTube, with Good Mythical Morning. And I think that to me, it's like you can't fool the algorithm. Don't try to fool the algorithm. The algorithm is designed to figure out who wants to watch something and for those people to find it and to watch it. And if you literally try to make something live and die by some trick that you're pulling on the algorithm,

chances are it will die. Chances are they won't work. Because if the algorithm could be tricked, that easily, then it wouldn't be a very good algorithm. And you know that there's so much information going into this algorithm that it's gotta be pretty damn sophisticated. You're really kissing the algorithm's butt right now. And that's, so it's like, okay, maybe we thought,

we thought too highly of ourselves in that way, thinking that we can slide one through, because we thought we had. We had limited anecdotal evidence who suggests that we could do it. Right. And now it's just like, not gonna try that again. Now, from here on out, it's like,

what we do will be, the title and the thumbnail is the best indication of the thing that you're actually getting, because the expectation set by the title and the thumbnail should be paid off by the video, which again, this is like YouTube 101. Yeah. But again, we thought that we were kind of tying into that.

So I think the answer to the question is like, is there something that can be celebrated, if so, celebrate it? Is there something that could be learned? If so, learn it. and don't try to explain it away. We're trying to understand it so we can learn the right lesson. But we're not trying to explain it away and be like,

well, no, actually it's fine. It's not a failure because you know what? It still gets more views than most shows on cable, you know, whatever. Like we could rationalize things like that. But it's definitive that the strategy didn't work in the way that we were hoping. Why did that happen? And that's ultimately a more valuable lesson

between those two things. This is what worked. This is what didn't work. The thing that didn't work, usually there's more information there that you can take to the next thing. To something else, not necessarily the very next project, but to add it to your knowledge bank. Thanks for the question.

I'm so glad we talked about that. I mean, I actually do feel. I am glad we talked about it. You know, because it's like, well, we did this whole episode where we were like, here's all these questions. Let's see what happens. And I do like closing the loop on it. That, oh, okay, this is what happened.

Thank you for enjoying Wonderhole, if you did. Got a lot of constructive feedback through the comments as well. You know, it was an experience that elicited response, and I like that part of it, too. Well, next week is not only another episode, but it's going to be an interesting one. um so just if you if you stuck around this long in this episode you're still running make sure to come back for the next one because we got some stuff to talk about yes we do hey i was just watching you guys on bobby lee

and i couldn't believe you guys don't know how to describe what good mythical morning is and i tell my friends, it's a game show where the contestants are always the same, but the game is always changing. Maybe that helps. Bye.